So many responses to yesterday’s post about disconnection. Gayle Smith just posted a comment that I feel deserves not to be overlooked.
I am making it it’s own post.
Disconnection
What I can say about it? It feels like so little because mere words fail me to convey the significance of its damage. I’ve come close to the edge more than once because of it. I’ve been spun in by it. I’ve come close to giving everything up because of it.
What if you disconnected from your own son and never got to say “I love you” again?
What if you discover that the reason a loved one left the Church of Scientology turned out to be completely different that what you were told?
What IF they really left because every fiber of their being demanded it of them because they discovered that which the OSA and HCO staff are there to prevent you from discovering?
That this high desire to help had by all evidence been used against you? That OSA’s actual purposes “to protect” demanded they bury the evidence that would enable you to see that your help, your desire to create “a world without insanity, without war and where the able can prosper and honest beings have rights” was turned in on you, your family and friends so craftily, so dutifully that it became the very blindfold worn to block out the light of truth? That the truth was that the church had become the very obstacle you thought you were overcoming?
What if you disconnected from a son you felt was a part of you like your smile or heartbeat was? What if you didn’t know what he knew, because you didn’t listen to what he was telling you through his distancing from the Scientology movement he once loved and believed in? What if you didn’t give your son the same listening to that an auditor gives on a daily basis to people who tell you all manner of harm they’ve done in the world in order to overcome it through auditing?
What if you failed to see that this son was indeed making an origination of the highest order and needed you “the auditor” to listen? What if you positioned someone else’s words on a piece of paper as being senior to your own love, integrity, loyalty and duty to those whose lives have become so integrated in to yours that you would have once given your life to protect?
What if you actually WERE lulled in to believing that someone else knew better than you what was good for YOU? What if you actually gave yourself wholly to a cause that has turned in to the antithesis or some version of it in the name of the “greater good”?
What if all the above turned out to be true and had you only listened to the originations of your son with the same auditor beingness that’s supposed to be used in the church of scientology? What if you used your TRs, the data series and ethics conditions to analytically determine what was true? What IF you wore your “Executive Director” hat of your own org board? What if you found that your loved one actually WAS trying to take care of YOU but you discovered it too late?
Too late? Too late.
Too late because there is the chance that you will NEVER get to hold them again, kiss them again or tell them how proud you are of them because they died before you had that chance. What if?
You don’t want to live with that. You don’t want to be that person. You don’t want to fail to apply the very tech to your life that you feel so strongly about. You don’t want to be the one who turned out to be wrong. You don’t want to discover it when it’s too late.
I know because it happened to me.
My son Collin’s life that was lost before I had this chance to make things right with him, to apply the tech I’d devoted my adult life to learning so as to achieve the goals of truth being truth and not someone else’s idea of what it was without inspection.
How in the hell could I possibly have disconnected from my own son?! And done so without ever talking to HIM about what had driven him so far away from something he once gave sooo much TO? HOW?!
The effects of doing such are so far greater than the pressures to have to get a new job or find new friends because those are by experience the easier of the obstacles to overcome compared to the reality that you failed your own flesh and blood that you got in to Scientology for in order to be the best mom you could be. To confront that is far worse than anything the church holds over you.
I cannot ignore what auditing CAN do for a person. The Bridge is standardly delivered outside of the shell of the church of scientology all the way up the OT levels. I know because I did them and know that the checksheets outside the church of scientology from Student Hat through Class IX auditor exist because I’ve seen them. Beyond holding my son again and looking him in the eyes to tell him that I love him I would like him to know that it wasn’t all in vain, that the torch for helping others improve their conditions in life with a proven tool continues. That it continues without blind devotion, without the lies and without the suppression within the church and more that it is being used to help those whose lives have been torn apart like ours was; with the goal of exposing the truth to those still inside the mind raping machine that has been manipulated by David Micasvige to allegedly undo such trappings.
Think for yourself.
BE the auditor for your loved ones.
LISTEN and be willing to apply your skills to evaluate information for yourself.
DO NOT set up a circuit for yourself that allows someone or something else to “THINK” for you or you might have to live with being WRONG and knowing that you were NOT being responsible to yourself and your loved ones by allowing this circuit to “think” for you to “decide” for you. DON’T take the chance! Or you might have to live with never being able to make things right with your son [daughter, father, mother, brother, sister, grandchild, aunt, uncle, friend] for the rest of your life. With such a circuit in place YOU will in fact not be living, the only living you do will be that life you are TOLD you are to live.
Now honestly to those still inside the church who read here; I ask you is it REALLY TRUE for YOU that “you’ve had many [sons, daughters, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, friends] in past lifetimes and you’ll have many more” is a good enough reason not to LISTEN and OBSERVE and EVALUATE the facts THIS LIFETIME FOR THIS FAMILY NOW? IS IT REALLY?
The Bridge IS standardly delivered OUTSIDE of the commercial enterprise David Miscavige has created. I do it along with so many other highly trained, highly experienced auditors and C/Ses AS it is supposed to be done per the grade chart and HCOBs.
Is a piece of paper with some words on it that say your loved one is a suppressive person all it takes to make it TRUE for YOU? REALLY?
Is that piece of paper greater than your own observations? REALLY?
Is what you gain by DOING what you’re told to do “or else” worth it REALLY?
Is it REALLY?
When you look yourself in the mirror you need to have confidence that you see the most loyal, trusted friend you have and I by god hope for you that you do.
I hope you do right by your loved ones before it’s too late for you. I hope that for you and those family and friends whose hearts are breaking and whose cases may be in a tangle from the injustices, the perversions of truth and the wrong items that has been forced upon them. If you got in to Scientology to be the BEST person you can be than you’d better stand up and BE that person. I hope to hell that when you look in the mirror that you see YOU and not something that mirrors were used to reflect a you that you no longer control.
This is for my son Collin.
Collin on the right
29 Sept 80 – 17 April 2003
22 years 6 months 18 days young
Gayle also asked me to add two links to media articles, the first reporting on Collin’s death and the second on an award given in his name.
I encourage anyone out there who has even the slightest desire to contact PLease Do So. You may have known me from a distance, spoken to me once or twice, knew me on a via of someone else, knew me well or not at all. If you have any questions about me, my leaving staff, how I came to realize through personal experience that the church was diseased, how I have resumed to application of my profession as an auditor and CS and why, how you can go up the Bridge outside of the walls of the church contact me, don’t hold back your communication – reach me.
If anyone has even one story to tell me about my sons, or one that you heard, or have any photos of any of them whether you ever had anything to do with Scn or not – please send me anything about them as I’d love to have any news from any time period that you have.
For any on you on the fence or unsure of what is true or not true about the facts of david miscavige’s perversions of the church, if you care only about the things that can be proven or that are tangible regarding what LRH said and expected vs what cob daviid miscavige has done to the church please go to this site and see for yourself: it’s not opinion, not name calling, not relying on anything but what is written vs what has been done so you CAN evaluate things in the privacy of your own home click on this link: http://www.friendsoflrh.org/COBvsLRH/ or copy/paste in your url and see for yourself.
Sincerely, Gayle
philadelphiagayle@yahoo.com or send Mike an email and ask him to forward your email to me please.
To Gail, my sincerest condolences to you for this unspeakable loss.I also want to thank you for your help to me while you were in philly I considered you a friend and amazingly powerful as a tech terminal I certainly missed you there this all pales in comparison to what you have been and are going thru You have and are making the world a better place.My best to you and your family.
Sincerely Bruce Wechtler
Oh my goodness Bruce,
What a joy it is to see this message. I have thought of you often and wondered how you were doing. I’ve thought of everyone there so often. It’s been very hard for me to look at the times in the org where I was doing what I loved so much and then have it all so suppressively ripped away. I had to leave. I was loosing myself and needed to be near my family. I’m sitting here right now with such a happy feeling. To hear from you is huge for me Bruce. Thank you so much. Love, your friend Gayle philadelphiagayle@yahoo.com
I’m sorry for your loss. Heartfelt … ♥
Gayle,
My heart goes out to you and I’m flowing admiration your way.
I didn’t know Collin or his brother well, but I met them on multiple occasions. I loved talking with them, their minds, their creativity, and their willingness to change their situations, get out of SO contracts. They were some of the most awesome folks my age that I knew at the time and a brilliant presence in and around Scn and the org. Thank you for sharing this story. As I’m sure you know, Collin by existing as the person he was brightened a lot of folks’ lives and he is remembered in only the best light. The continuing award in his name speaks strongly to this.
Ladidah,
I would love to hear from you.
Sincerely, Gayle
Gayle, When I first read your post yesterday, all I could do was cry. I am so sorry. I could not even read all the responses as this is so heartbreaking. Thank you for speaking out as you do. You and your family are in my thoughts and heart.
Gayle,
You have a very touching and heartfelt story. I’m very sorry for the loss of your son.
I wish you the best and I hope you can continue to enlighten many more people with your tragedy.
Love
Wow, Gayle…Wow. Thanks for sharing this. You’ve told me a little of your experience before, but this hit like a megaton bomb. This would be a VERY hard communication for anyone in the church to ignore.
Gayle took me in session this last Monday, and helped me to unravel a painful situation (no where near the magnitude of what she describes above.) She speaks the truth and walks it like she talks it.
Thanks for being here, Gayle. Much, much love.
Mike,
As you can see now this story was an entanglement of love and overts. I didn’t view my failure to leave my post and go get Collin as an overt at the time – what with an entire staff and field who would have been stopped in their Bridge progress if I did. Collin himself of course did have his overts and withholds that weighed him down however those are rarely enough to cause anyone to pull them down so fast that their life is cut off as his was. What an overt is in fact is the assumption of a viewpoint in action that ends up causing more harm than good. I think if anyone had the key to unlock the secrets of how to know BEFORE acting or not acting on something would turn out we’d all be around a fire singing kum ba yah rejoicefully.
I can only be as certain of my decisions in life as my life reflects the results of good decisions. There was an idea in my life at the time that my decisions regarding my son were the right ones for us all and it’s a very painful lesson indeed to have to learn otherwise and yet find a way to make it matter when the mistake cost so much.
Thank you too for being here Mike. We’re both learning and finding our ways in the dark and doing the best we can to light up the path so we have more certainty on our choices. I’m happy to have you as an explorer to navigate forward with.
G
About Mike, me too!
Gayle – what a moving story. I am so very sorry for your loss and the sadness you have borne. It is truly a relief to hear that Mike Eldredge is helping you find healing. I’m sure that peace will come to you. Thank you for sharing this with us all – it was a courageous thing to do, and vital too, that the full picture unravels. Who knows how many people your post will save. Your compassion for others supersedes your own your grief. I am also moved by the other stories (in this thread and elsewhere) and the compassion of people in this community. Marty Rathbun wrote up his own tone scale not too long ago, and if memory serves me, I believe “compassion” was high up on his scale. I have a lot of agreement with that.
Thank you for sharing your story, Gayle. It has helped me and will help more people to get clear about their relationship with themselves, their loved ones and this church, and what it really means to love and be alive and live with the consequences. No, this is not some game, and it is not about being cheered for your certificate or status. The greatest good, at this point, is a world without this organisation and preferably without a repetition. I hold in my mind that families are together again, and everyone formerly involved is free to live their life as they see fit. That there is happiness to go round for all, and that there is no longer a corporate organisation to kowtow to. That the MAA thralls are free to set up their own organisation and continue their sadistic/masochistic ways if they must (but preferably that they, too, will be free of this thralldom), and that everyone else is free to practice Scientology independently, find their own auditor, group, or simply enjoy what life they have left to live and be deemed no less for their decision.
Corporate Scientology has embodied its creed on the inverse: it is insane, criminal and at war, its people have no rights and are granted none, and cannot rise except in delusion.
Thank you also for what you wrote to windhorse. I agree, we always keep the people we love or have loved in our hearts. And we are always in touch, wherever we are. It is not goodbye, after all.
Thank you DM (oh boy now that was not easy to type!)
Dollar Morgue, thanks for a sharing a most empathetic view with us. Though broadly agreeing with your sentiments, perhaps the one area we may differ, is whether this IS “a game,” or not? Considering the
vast permutation of outcomes possible, when we enter the cycle of life, then much of which happens to / around us, hinges upon either “fate”, other-determinism, self-determinism, or pan determinism. If we buy into the UNwillingness to control (stop) Miscavige for example, then there is certainly no “game” at hand! (merely capitulation!) A “game,” – by definition, includes the possibility of either winning OR losing – and the realization of this fact, makes it possible to actually PLAY the game, win OR lose!
Being able to give it your “best shot,”in spite of every counter measure to come your way, is exactly what defines the “human spirit” – in every single one of us, when we decide to “stand up and be counted,” at the very least, if not an all out attempt to “beat” one’s opponent in a game, or contest, fair or otherwise.
In looking over the scientology scenario, in a new unit of time then, would you agree that it is a “game” after all?
Thank you for sharing your story. I knew Collin. A wonderful, very alive, smart, funny person. When I heard about his death (and was more or less still in the church) I got comments from highly brainwashed “trained” persons (one of them a highly trained C/S) like: “oh, he was out ethics” and “Well, he pulled it in somehow” and “no wonder, with his crimes on the church. He had to stop himself” –
I could vomit about those concepts – then and now. And it is really sad that people can get so manipulated to explain themselves outpoints, tragedies, deaths with such a shit. It was very shocking for me to find out that I was also to some degree tought to be having no empathy, having sociopathic behaviour circuits sold and bought by me for “Clear”- and “OT”-behaviour to” stand above such human things”, having no compassion.
Since I am out my love for people has exploded and I feel extremly what people (animals etc.) feel.
I feel with you. As I had also deaths in my family I know at least a bit how hard it must have been for you. Your degree of loss is however way above mine to lose ones own child and then finding out he was right. That is really hard and I do admire you big times for having the guts observing that for yourself. Sometimes to see the truth can be very tough but always healing. (sorry for my english. I am foreign speaking and just tried to say what I feel)
Hi Eddie,
Your English was just fine. Thank you for you kind words. What I know is that responsibility spans such a gradient of action – and this is a characteristic that the tech of auditing is to raise up a person up the scale of. It’s amazing to see the refractions of light that this one trait can emanate. So many different rays while all being owned as “the right way”.
Collin’s own path of pursuit was a mixture of his innate strengths, love and abilities combine with his own blind spots that of course resulted in O/Ws. However, without the severe out-tech he had on his case which was discovered after FESing of his folders was done only after S.O. intervention was needed to extract his folders from the then ED of my org and CS on his case refused to send them to Flag where I was still in-training at the time, without the lack of care he needed from “his team members” to meet the correct estimation of effort would be having this conversation? Oh the espousing of “responsible for own condition” and “pulled it in” is invariably in my opinion and experience a reflection of the low harmonics of what responsibility actually is.
As a long-time CS I can tell you that none of the stories like these could be told without responsibility failing is so many other ways. How is it that someone can be so trained and have studied the tech ever try to mis-assign cause so completely.
I too Eddie found my love for others expand exponentially when I finally decided ENOUGH of the lies and investment of myself in to this gnarly entanglement of acceptable truths. Like many of us I suspect the floor dropped from under my feet when I watched Tommy Davis on CNN lie to the world. My head was spinning literally for days from the impact and what I knew it meant; that I was going to have to find a way to be completely divorced from the group I’d given decades of my life too being a part of, creating and taking “responsibility” for.
So I guess I “pulled in” that interview that exposed the insidiousness of david miscavige and the scientology as it existed at that time. My decision to leave that group was a survival decision that had years of reports, requests for investigations and unwillingness to succumb to threats and push for truth and policy application along with personal production that was in many ways stellar. How completely lacking in responsibility it is to say “they pulled it in” – a total admission that the tech doesn’t work or that it didn’t get applied. How completely not Scientology that is.
I’m sorry to hear about your losses Eddie. As a VI C/S and OT V myself I’ve felt my grief so deeply I thought I would explode from it. A cavalier attitude about such things as the loss of a loved is the surest evidence to me that this person is not themselves and is confronting life through a valance – and that is not the way to freedom from stupidity and lies but in fact is one.
Thank you for commenting here Eddie.
Best to you,
Gayle
“the espousing of “responsible for own condition” and “pulled it in” is invariably in my opinion and experience a reflection of the low harmonics of what responsibility actually is” –
THAT is SO true!!!
Sometimes I think they should take the same responsibility as every other group has to take it for their own products. If a person gets messed up by psychologists then Scientologists scream that this psychologist should be made responsible for it. If a person brings his car to a company where they should fix it and gets it even more broken back then one can hold the company responsible for it.
But in that “church” you can do what you want – you can yell at people, give them wrong items, cave them in with wild accusations, force them to disconnect from beloved ones, threatening them with the loss of their “eternity” (which is stupid anyway. As we are immortal anyhow) and cave them in with ethics programs even to a point where they break and nobody is being made responsible for it. Examples are enough like the people who died even back on the Apollo or OT VIII Biggie Reichert who commited suicide or Lisa or or or …. (and all those countless persons who “just” suffered “only” losses, degradations, invalidations, etc. “out of the best of intention”)
If there is out tech done on a person which causes them to cave in that “church” or “tech” administering persons should be held responsible by law for it or stop messing around with the minds of people. Someone is an expertise or he is just a fraud. Every doctor can be held responsible for his operations or handlings of the peoples body. So it should be also with people who “handle the minds” of others.
In a lot countries you need to have certificates for this and can be made responsible. But Scientology could all avoid it be saying it is a religion. In my opinion the same rules should apply in order to avoid that people fuck around with the minds of such young persons or persons in general.
IMHO 😉
On behalf of Susan Talbot, who has been suffering in silence for 13 years. In her own words:
OK, lets have a think. I was in Scientology for 15 years, also my ex husband & 2 daughters. Mandy & Clare were both in the Sea Org. I trained up to Class VI Auditor & C/S & was totally dedicated until I joined staff at St. Hill. I started to go into doubt on the Organisation. Sea Org members were treated like slaves & I also found out that pregnant women were made to feel degraded & screamed out to get rid of their unborn children.
This greatly disturbed me. My eldest daughter Mandy was married to Chaz Kember & he was sent to LA to train, he was over there for 2 yrs & put onto a post in Wise. Mandy was sent to LA in 1998 to be with him. At this time I was really out of Scientology but kept quiet about it because of Mandy, my other daughter had left & was married with a baby.
When Mandy was in LA she called me about 3 times a week, she hated LA & each time would cry down the phone. This went on for about 3 months, I was very upset about it all & getting more & more dissatisfied with the Cult. I told Mandy that we would get her home for a holiday. I contacted Bonnie Woods & she helped me write letters to get Mandy home. In 2001 I was declared for this . Mandy disconnected from me in 2000 before I got declared, she called new years day 2000 & stated that she was happy now & loved LA & didn’t want me to interfere . I have not seen Mandy since 1998 & she hasn’t contacted me or any other family member since 2000.
I’m so sorry to hear about Susan’s situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t and when you take the route you take with such “choices” you still end up in hell. The no-win scenarios booby trap the entire organization which is the furthest thing from religion in my intent for the word to describe as you can get.
Even in the independent world there is this tendency to segregate, for cliques to form and politics to continue. This too is a sad reflection of what has and has not been learned, is and isn’t being applied of the tech which was overall intended to create a world where we can fully trust each other.
I do what I know I can do and let the cauldron brew as it will trying not to throw any wood on the fire. The word splinter group does describe what I’ve found in the independent world. There is a need it seems for an us and them, I’m right you’re wrong and we’re good you’re bad to be dramatized. Maybe it has to be that way to hold something together while also splintering it apart.
I know I thought I was doing what I had to do at the time to GET my son back! How opposed are those two things in retrospect. I only hope that we all learn that which we haven’t yet and that is that going OUT of ARC is not a solution to any problem. And garnering agreement for out-ARC is just another harmonic of the same GPM that has overtaken the church.
“I only hope that we all learn that which we haven’t yet and that is that going OUT of ARC is not a solution to any problem. And garnering agreement for out-ARC is just another harmonic of the same GPM that has overtaken the church.” Gayle, such truth you speak. And especially in the Indie world, going out ARC with other Indies over ideals one is passionate about, is just the same GPM that has taken over the church. We don’t always have to have an enemy to fight. Maybe we can start a reformation and a renaissance instead.
Susan, I am so sorry to hear that you were wrong-targeted for simply trying to help your daughter. And then she turns and disconnects from you. That is the product of the cult. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Are you the wife or ex wife of Dick Talbot?
RAISE YOUR FEATHERS
(poem for Gayle and Colin)
One more time a mother’s pen
A feather defeats the gun
The maternal Truth defeats lies
‘tween womb and loving sons
Thus
Earth prefers its Poets dead
And mothers down to puppet
For what freedom might she tell
What loving word might spell
The coming of a Prophet
But one more time the pen
Becomes The Angel’s Whistle
And the blowing blows barriers
And the blowing brings Empires
To its knees
One more time the Mother’s pen.
PoetLaureate – 28 Aug 13
C.2013
Poet Laureate, Such a beautiful, heartfelt and powerful poem. I loved it. Thank you!
This can be stopped by everyone voting with their feet. Don’t play. Don’t go in. Don’t anwer their summons. Eventually there won’t be anyone to from whcih to disconnect. Enough is enough is enough. Revolution is already underway.
From the John Butler Tro
Running through the fire, running through the flame,
running through the hatred, pushing through the blame,
running through the hopelessness and shame,
revolution already underway.
Take back your feet, take back your hands.
Take back your words, take back your lands.
Take back your heart, take back your pride.
Don’t got to run, don’t got to hide.
Revolution.
Revolution is already underway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23h7sGh6xIw
Thank you, Gayle. Your story sheds light on how really horrible forced disconnection can be. Love to you!
What a sick and dimented philosophy.It’s always “For your own good, and the greatest good”.
It’s not the philosophy that’s sick and demented, Phil. It’s the people who’ve twisted its meanings and purposes to their own warped and evil ends.
Well said, Ronnie.
Worthy defence indeed, Ronnie! Show me another human being, now or past, that was able to uncover so much about the Mind, (especially the workings of the reactive mind) and then not only formulate and prove actual AXIOMS which regulate the workings of the Mind AND life, but to go on to develop the methods, (technology & processes) to not only resolve the abberation (irrationality) resulting therefrom, but to further demonstrate how relatively easy and straightforward it was to teach (train) others to do the same, for an exponential benefit and relief of anyone whomsoever wishes to reach for it. IMHO, there has been no greater friend to mankind as a whole, especially since so many, since time immemorial, have had the common realization that; — ” It’s ALL in the MIND.” — Now who else can you think of, that is/ was prepared to give you the tools / means, to give / attain such a gift of immeasurable freedom, self control and broad understanding of life? And all conceived, organized and developed in ONE lifetime, by ONE individual man? — Anyone?
This whole Disconnection thing is a real pisser.
The stories, etc. etc. etc.
Ya know, I have my own Corporate Scientology disconnection story and I can’t post it as it could cause great harm to a few families.
I would hope that Tom Cruse wakes up. If anyone can put this crap to rest it is him.
Curt, I would like to believe that Tom Cruise could come clean with himself one day and set things right but I don’t think he ever will, he’s in too deep.
Dittos, Doug. TC has given so much tacit and overt support to DM over the years, and has received so much undeserved support from him, that it’s hard to imagine how he could easily untangle himself now. Even the loss of his wife and daughter weren’t enough to force him to cognite.
He may surprise us yet.
Gail, What a heart breaking story, it took a enormous amount of courage to share this, thank you. I am speechless, I don’t think there are any words to express here, just speechless. ML, Jan
Thank you Jan and that Love right back at ya.
xox,g
By it’s own heinous actions the Church of Scientology has inadvertently created the demand-and-result from the very culture (it claims it can clear) to actually “disconnect” itself from Scientology. Karma in action baby. Those aren’t “empty” Orgs. Those are Orgs that have been “disconnected from” by their own customers. Only difference here is those customers are in FEAR of sending any kind of DISCONNECT LETTER for FEAR the church will hold the GUN BARREL OF DISCONNECTION to their friends and families. David Miscavige is holding these people and relationships HOSTAGE. If David Miscavige is really such a great wonderful guy, then why doesn’t he LET PEOPLE LEAVE without attacking and destroying their families and friendships? SP DECLARES = DISCONNECTION = simply an intent to attack and destroy anyone who seeks to live with the truth as they see it. And if that means leaving the Church of Scientology, then it’s GAME ON.
Spot on.
Martha Stout’s book is a good start in understanding psychopathy. I’d like to suggest a couple of books to add to your reading list:
Without Conscience by Dr. Robert Hare
Snakes in Suits by Drs. Hare and Babiak
Dr. Hare is the foremost researcher in the personality disorder known as Psychopathy. (For the sake of clarity, research psychologists use the term “psychopathy.” Sociopathy and psychopathy are often used interchangeably).
The psychopath is by definition an abuser. One of the key behaviors of all abusers, whether they are psychopathic or just the garden variety, is that they separate the target (victim) from any and all support systems that can aid in 1) enlightening the target that he/she is being abused, and 2) escaping the abuser. The support system is seen by the abuser as a direct threat to his ability to control the target.
.
The abuser often enlists others to help perpetrate the abuse. Some are obvious sycophants, some are more unwitting dupes. To them he is charming and engaging, a good friend, a model citizen, the very soul of propriety. He uses those people to direct hostility towards the target to further distance that target from aid – indeed, the abuser may even effectively portray himself as the victim.
The psychopathic abuser will go to astonishing lengths to prevent being exposed for what he is. That cracked facade would reveal that they are little more than unfeeling intraspecies predators that feed off the pain and suffering of others.
So the day comes that the target decides to leave. The target may begin speaking about the abuse. By then, the abuser has so cunningly set up the target that is seen by others as utterly incompetent, crazy, and vengeful. Some may believe the target, but many will not. They have not seen what lies behind the mask of sanity..
It’s important to mention here that the psychopath inevitably ends up doing great harm to himself. He cannot stop himself from pushing boundaries and the goodwill of others too far because there is no bottom to his depravity. It’s also important to note the distorted logic of a psychopath – it’s an “I win if you lose” mentality. They don’t view “winning” in the positive sense of achieving success. Unfortunately for Scientologists, this means the parasite will continue to feed even if it means the destruction of both predator and prey.
Ms. G,
Wow, great message. Should be set on a Gold Tablet
then put in a public place for all to read.
Last sentence is so true.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending lots of theta hugs your way.
Gail, my heart goes out to you. No truer words have been spoken, I hope this wakes some people up from the stupor they are in and that they get busy reconnecting with loved ones. The cruelty of a Sociopath knows no bounds to hurt and in fact this pain is pathetically enjoyed by the Sociopath and David Miscavige is one or he would have ended this horrible practice long ago. I pray you find peace and solace.
Thank you for sharing your heartfelt message, Gayle. I wish it could be read by all the honest and well-intentioned people (and I know there are some) who still work within the Cof$.
All of us who ever made excuses for the Church’s cruel actions, who shrugged them off, laughed them off or justified them must also take some responsibility.
Amen David.
WOW. I cried reading this.
I know that “advice, policy, words, sympathy cards, travel, alcohol, group sessions, and time” do not heal a loss. Neither does just moving on to a new life. There are some things that there are no remedies for. These are spiritual dynamics that seem to transcend all other dynamics. There are certain things we are never going to feel good about. It will not be possible.
The idea that one can get auditing and skip gleefully through life forever on top of the world, is an unattainable goal. Because you share this world with others and no matter how good you may feel, you walk into a subway and see a homeless man yelling at a trash can, and you can’t help but feel for his agony. And you want to help others. It doesn’t seem to be enough to just want to feel better for yourself. How are you going to feel good about something like that?
I have had losses that have driven me onto the streets, I have had losses that have driven me into a bottle, I have had losses that have driven me to bed, where I lay so long I had to be taken from there to a hospital. I have had losses that have driven me to the window, where I looked down several stories and wondered if I could hold myself back. And I had to keep that window closed, for months.
We all have to move through the painful cycle of qual and correction in this universe over and over. It is called evolution. We had to move through in Scientology, facing what we need to correct within ourselves, within that universe. Some people hit that moment when they have to correct something in themselves, and blame it all on the Church or the knowledge. Discount it all.
I have come to view life as a series of exchanges. This universe offers something up to you in the form of a trust. That is “HAVE”. These things come and go from your life as you also give of yourself to others. And take yourself from others. In a good condition, these exchanges are built on desire, not debts and enforcement.
One thing I have learned about this dynamic of exchange, is that whenever you “lose” something, a vacuum is created in your space, and this makes room for something new to come in.
The best management I have mustered personally, to keep myself from being pulled into those terrible vacuums, is to decide within minutes of a loss, what I want to bring in to replace that loss.
Nothing can really be replaced exactly, because no two things are the same. No two people are the same and for sure can not replaced. But you can bring in other people to have rewarding exchange with.
You may or may not find someone who wants to be in your space. But you can always find someone else that needs you. And when you help them, this falls like a soothing balm more potent than the Poppy plant.
Because when you make the world a better a place, it still helps everyone still exploring this universe.
We have been given a bad rap as Independents more making some noise. Been labeled “destructive” and “harmful” by the Emperor. No, we still and always have seek to make the world a better place. NOT contribute to things that inhibit survival. To assist things that assist survival.
As Hubbard pointed out, one had to bring down an old tenement to replace it with a sky rise.
Love is a powerful thing. It is manifested by those who are in our space, as it is a closure of distances. I found out long ago those who cross my path have done so over and over and over. And will do so again in the future. Because of love, we never really lose anybody. They will always cross our path again. The current connection may be fragile, faulty, frail or even fail. We always build a new and better one.
Sure, in between, we miss each others company. That’s when we hang some pictures to remind ourselves. And in between , we make ourselves and the world into a better condition, so next time we do meet, the conditions are better ones, and we are set up for a better win with one another. Next time around, we have more to bring to the table. More to give.
And this is how we keep the love alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqqLgZ-Qgk
Thank you, Oracle. Your words are exactly what I needed to hear today. An astute, laser sharp perspective, as ever.
Oracle,
Wow. Beautiful post. Also, it was a such a surprise to hear Kenny Rankin. I heard him at the Great American Music Hall back in ’72 and this brought me right back to a pleasure moment. Thanks.
No one should suffer the cruel, perverse, heart-breaking treatment given you, your son, and those who know and love you both. It brings me to grief and it furthers my resolve to see this insanity end.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting you and experiencing you as filled with wisdom and compassion. Plus, your face just radiates a glow of love and caring. I so admire that you have risen above the worst they could possibly deal you. I admire you all the more.
Thank you Yvonne, I know what help you’ve been to the efforts to expose the truth and the support you’ve been in so many ways to others. I admire you and your husband. You guys are a great team.
Love, Gayle
This really is heartbreaking. Took me three tries to get through it.
‘But often, the fundamentalist makes no distinction between “tech” and “admin”, it is all “tech” as in “the tech of Scientology.” Even the “Third Dynamic Tech.”
Crystal clear, and I don’t mind Gayle adherence to L Ron Hubbard in a mayor or Minor way. If you swoop aside all differences and views there is still a Lady that hurts like hell
And that’s the onley important thing that is true for me and you and everybody, not at least for this brave Lady
Niels, sometimes you come up with the perfect statement that encapsulates what a decent and caring man you are. This is one of them. Thankyou.
Sometimes too you are so off the wall I wonder what planet your ISP serves :)\
But you are always entertaining and a welcome addition to the rather eclectic, but ever expanding cyberfamily that comes together randomly here.
Cheers to you.
*tips hat*
I feel bad for saying the following, and more than bit like an asshole, but I think it needs to be said. If I have to play the role of the asshole to convey the following, so be it.
On the one hand, Gayle seemingly celebrates the delivery of “Standard Tech” outside the corporate Church of Scientology: “The Bridge is standardly delivered outside of the shell of the church of scientology all the way up the OT levels.”
On the other hand, there seems to be no recognition that Disconnection is and always has been “Standard Tech.” As Mike noted in his prior post “Disconnection And Segregation” —
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/disconnection-and-segregation/
— “Mr. and Mrs. Smith report back to HCO. The Ethics Officer opens Introduction to Scientology Ethics to page 312 and reads them the following “High Crime”: Continued adherence to a person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or Group by HCO. The Ethics Officer informs them that Frank is now officially designated a Suppressive Person by HCO for committing this High Crime and asks them whether they plan to disconnect from him and their daughter-in-law and two of their grandchildren. They know the consequence of NOT disconnecting will be for them to be declared and thus lose their jobs and their other two children and 4 other grandchildren. This IS the “choice” they are given. And yes, technically, they DO have a choice — they can walk out and tell the Ethics Officer they will not disconnect from one son and lose the other two and their jobs. So, they call Frank and tell them they will no longer be communicating with him until he “handles himself with HCO.” —
The thing is, that has ALWAYS been the case. The book Introduction to Scientology Ethics says what it says, and always has. For a very long time “Continued adherence to a person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or Group by HCO” has been a High Crime.’ These references did not first come into existence under DM. And whatever other alterations DM has made to the Tech, DM did not alter the relevant section of the book Introduction to Scientology Ethics or the references on High Crimes. I know because I have looked.
I applaud all those who resist, fight and do not comply with Disconnection Orders. I do, however, think there should be some recognition that one cannot do so while adhering 100% to KSW “Standard Tech.” Again, the book Introduction to Scientology Ethics says what it says, and always has. The reference on High Crimes, and other references, say what they say, and always have.
Hmmm, I think that High Crime first appeared in 1982. I dont think it is much of an argument to claim that idiocy from HCO enforcing disconnection is “standard tech”. It’s not. It may be “standard admin” but it for sure is not standard tech which is all addressed to the individual. The fundamental concept of disconnection is not unsound. Martha Stout in the Sociopath Next Door gives exactly the same advice — the best way to deal with a sociopath is NOT to deal with them at all.
On the other hand, I think anyone who uncritically accepts anything written as true simply because it was written by L. Ron Hubbard — whether it be tech or admin — is a few sandwiches short of a full picnic. But that doesnt describe the Gayle that I know.
I sense things went astray in 1978 allready
And yes 2,5 % to 1,5 % of the population is the anti social person.
I will defend auditing as a theraphy but be critical of anything, I am not here to mock your founder. That is not my place here. The few things like auditing and such I will defend. other than that I love to be here and be connected.
I like you.
Mike – Thanks for posting my comment and the reply. Several quick responses.
First, it is interesting that Cat daddy cites the year 1978 as when things “went astray.” A very quick and dirty Google search finds a 1978 version of Introduction to Scientology Ethics with the following, similar, High Crime: “Continued adherence to a group pronounced a Suppressive Group by the Hubbard Communications Office.”
http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books%20chrono/1968%20INTRODUCTION%20TO%20SCIENTOLOGY%20ETHICS.pdf
I don’t have earlier editions handy, but will have to take a look.
Secondly, your distinction between “Standard Tech” and “Standard Admin” is interesting, but I don’t think it holds up. As you yourself earlier noted:
” I do not believe policy/admin is in the same ballpark as tech. The admin, after all, only came about as a means to an end — enabling the delivery of tech. But I do not think anyone can seriously contend that LRH and the church don’t hold policy/admin tech to the same standard of “Keeping Scientology Working.” It is considered a High Crime to alter policy or misapply it or fail to apply it. Just as it is with tech. In the minds of Corporate Scientologists, if its written by LRH it is to be FOLLOWED to the letter.”
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/keeping-scientology-working/#comment-251461
While you personally saw a distinction between Auditing Tech and “policy/admin tech,” you recognized that LRH did not when it came to KSW and whether it MUST be applied.
Also, I honestly don’t mean to play “gotcha” by citing your own words back to you. Please take it that I’ve been carefully reading everything you and Marty have written for a long time (probably since the beginning), and have been taking you both seriously.
Finally, you cite Martha Stout and the book Sociopath Next Door, and note that the fundamental concept of disconnection is not unsound. I agree. One should disconnect from a sociopath, a spouse beater, etc. The issues have always been: (1) what is sufficient to trigger disconnection; (2) what happens to one’s other relationships if one refuses to disconnect; and (3) who decides whether one should, or indeed must, disconnect from another, and the consequences of refusing to do so. My understanding is that in Scientology those decisions have for a very long time, and certainly prior to the rise of DM, been made per scripture by the group, and more specifically by the hierarchy of the COS.
I dont want to get into a lengthy debate about this. I don’t consider it a “gotcha”. Mostly this is indistinct definitions and usage of terms that have a number of meanings.
I think Fundamentalist Scientologists — whether in the church or “independent” consider everything ever written by Hubbard, whether “tech” or “admin” to be gospel truth and to be followed to the letter. I disagree with that concept and I have also stated that I do not believe admin tech has any track record of proven success. It is not in my mind a “workable technology” though there are plenty of sound ideas contained in it and I consider the Data Series to be a philosophical masterpiece. But often, the fundamentalist makes no distinction between “tech” and “admin”, it is all “tech” as in “the tech of Scientology.” Even the “Third Dynamic Tech.”
I consider “the tech” to be the address of the individual in Scientology — as in auditing tech. And I think this is how Gayle was using it too.
I therefore don’t see an inconsistency with her statement about the value of the application of the tech and the assertion that the enforcement of “Ethics Policy” by HCO is wrong. Maybe I am misreading her and she thinks ALL written material by Hubbard is gospel truth and that it is simply “misapplication” that is the problem. I do not share that view. I believe there are many things that are unconscionable and wrong in writings concerning the administration of Scientology. I don’t find the same thing in the “tech” of auditing. People may not agree that it benefits people or deride it as foolish or deluded, but no matter whether you agree or disagree, you don’t tend to find things that are clearly a violation of individual rights for the good of the organization in “the tech.”
Hope this clarifies.
I appreciate that you read so carefully….
Wise Old Goat.
http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_story_of_mayo.html
Hello CommunicatorIC,
I don’t know you and you post with a moniker. That usually means that you’re under the radar or you’re a troll. Since I’ve seen some of your posts before I’m going to go with the first though your identity may be known to some of my friends.
I want to say that Mike is right in his understanding of who I am. Disconnection from suppression is actually technically a very last resort for a person to do ESPECIALLY if it’s family one is talking about doing it to. The ONLY reason such disconnection would be necessary for a person to do is if that family member is a true 2.5 percenter who is dedicated to making a person’s life miserable. A person WON’T make case gain if they are continually subjected to cowing and berating and belittling from someone in their immediate environment. This later expansion of it’s use was in my evaluation and judgement suppressive. A tool for a “church” to use to control it’s “flock”. This technology should never have gone past being an applied PHILOSOPHY. When the decision to become a “religion” entered in so did many off purpose intentions IMHO.
Of any of the red on white technology, the auditing technology the PTS/SP tech is the most abused, poorly written and misapplied data in Scientology. After that it has to be the Prod Off/Org Off/Esto series of LRH policy. all of course IMHO. But I know that the processes of Objectives through NED DO produce the abilities stated to exist. I believe that the meter in the hands of a professional is the most valuable tool I know how to use. I know that wrong items can send a case south faster than anything else can.
I don’t think you’re an asshole C I/C. Your comments allowed me to clarify for you I hope what was not clear to you and maybe others as well.
Best to you,
Gayle
reachable on fb and at philadelphiagayle@yahoo.com
Hi CommunicatorIC,
Since you brought up the history of Disconnection in the “Intro to Scientology Ethics” (ISE) book in your post, I thought I’d share some research I did into it.
I picked up all the copies of ISE from the 60s through today (about 25 different editions and printings), and what I found was that the “Continued adherence…” clause in ISE was “…to a group” only from 1969 until 1982, and then it was expanded to “…to a group or individual” in the Oct-1982 edition of ISE.
In other words, the “Continued adherence…” clause was tightened up to include groups and individuals in 1982 in the ISE book.
With that said, it doesn’t take LRH off the hook. By all credible accounts, he is the one that did the tightening in the early 1980s, most likely in response to Mayo’s and others’ efforts at reform. But for historical accuracy reasons, it should be noted that “enforced disconnection” in ISE did not include “disconnection from individuals” from about 1969 to 1982.
Thanks Margaret. As always, just the facts ma’am. I thought it was 82 — it was when the Scientology Policy Directive was issued (Suppressive Act — Dealing With A Declared Suppressive Person) and it definitely had to do with Mayo and the “Mission Holders Mutiny” and other “disaffection with management”. And there is no doubt that LRH was directly involved with these activities and was extremely bloody minded. Marty’s books cover this in more detail.
CommunicatorIC,
I have read some of your comments in ESMB, and it looks like you stand out among other commenters because you are trying to be objective.
CommunicatorIC: “One should disconnect from a sociopath, a spouse beater, etc. The issues have always been: (1) what is sufficient to trigger disconnection; (2) what happens to one’s other relationships if one refuses to disconnect; and (3) who decides whether one should, or indeed must, disconnect from another, and the consequences of refusing to do so.”
Good analysis.
CommunicatorIC: “High Crime: ‘Continued adherence to a group pronounced a Suppressive Group by the Hubbard Communications Office.’”
This is similar to a lot of non Scn policies around the world.
E.g.: The US government labels terrorist groups, and then punishes them, and also punishes people helping them.
All kind of labeling are done based on pattern recognition (either done by a human, a computer, or both). All labeling has 2 kinds of errors: false positive and false negative (also called type I and type II errors respectively).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors
The problem is not this policy in itself, but how accurately the labeling is done.
The US government probably is a good classifier of terrorist groups.
On the other hand, North Korea is a bad classifier of enemies of the North Korean people (although, they probably are a good classifier – but using a misleading label – of the opponents of the current North Korea regime).
The Co$ is a bad classifier of SPs. Big error type I (false positives): labeling SP people who are not SPs. Big error type II (false negatives), e.g.: not labeling DM and his minions as SPs. Also, like North Korea, they probably are a good classifier – but using a misleading label – of the current opponents of the current Co$ regime.
P.S.: My above comment, also applies to individuals. E.g.: a government labeling criminal people. A good government is good classifier, a corrupt government (like the Co$) is a bad classifier.
Although this will be marked as a reply to Mike’s comment because of the way replies are nested, I intend it as a reply to the comments by Cat Daddy, Gayle, and Margaret. I want to thank everyone for their substantive responses, and the fact said responses assume good will on my part. I appreciate both.
I’m in complete agreement with Mikes reply to this.
A couple of points here from LRH:-
” Thus when you are interpreting policy it should be
interpreted only against EXPANSION as the single factor governing it.”
HCOPL 4 dec 1966 ADMIN KNOW HOW EXPANSION THEORY OF POLICY
Nowhere is it written one can “interpret” auditing tech.
Then there is:-
“THE STRUCTURE OF ORGANISATION
WHAT IS POLICY 13 march 1965
” Periodic sweep-outs of antiquated and didactic
laws ( rather than general concepts and subpurposes)
~ must ~ be undertaken by a being, organisation, group
or race or species. ”
No where does LRH say one should sweep out old tech.
Quite the contrary!
Then SERVICE HCOPL 19 March 1968
” I don’t care how many rules you break if they’re broken to give
unselfish service to one another and the public. We live for service not for rules.”
No where does LRH say you can break the rules governing auditing.
Else where he refers to policy as a “guiding thing”. Clearly Tech is senior to admin
and LRH implies admin and rules should be constantly reviewed and revised as needed. By
anyone even outside the realms of Scn. or even our species.
Mike, just reading through this thread, and many other similar previous items, and then the comments by Margaret, (with regard to the LRH reaction to David Mayo’s attempts at reform;)
I recall when David Mayo was sent on a world wide mission (1978) to set up the Introduction of the then brand new tech breakthrough NED (New Era Dianetics.) My wife Dorothy, was the very first to undergo the training, thus becoming Durban’s first NED auditor. Her enthusiasm
to this end was certainly, in part, as a result of her being genuinely impressed by the quiet and dedicated sincerity and demeanor of Mayo.
Yet , it seems that the Dead Agent’ing of this man, Mayo, has been complete, in that he has
apparently been shunned , & bought into silence and oblivion, to all intents and purposes.
Having watched some of his videos of his “Advanced Ability Center”, I was left with the conclusion that his (reform) movement, was an incredibly brave and honorable venture to
have set up, at that later stage, under the realization of duty to keep the flame burning for the delivery of tech and training.
The question here is, does David Mayo deserve more than a nod for his precocious stand?
Against the above mentioned account, your opinion, if briefly stated, would be appreciated.
Thanks, Calvin.
The issue here is the slight of hand that occurs. Yes if someone is suppressing you intentionally and won’t stop no matter what it makes sense to not play with them. If your activity was truly helping people across the board someone trying to destroy that activity would probably be an anti social person and dangerous to be around. The problem comes in when the activity has become destructive. Now trying to fix it or correct it to not be destructive is a social thing to do. Now the original policy that made sense generally, when the activity was not destructive has become the opposite of what it was intended for. Now it perpetuates the destructive activity.
Continuation ….AND HARMS THE SOCIAL PERSON!
“Continued adherence to a person or group pronounced a Suppressive person or group by HCO ” has been a high crime.
Either LRH screwed up and he didn’t consider the possibility that HCO could itself be suppressive and declare good people or this “tech” was altered by DM circa 1981. Maybe to keep people from associating with Mayo or the mission holders?
This particular line was much debated in the early ’80’s when many good people were declared. Before the early ’80’s people around my area rarely were declared SP.
What is omitted here is “LEVELS OF ETHICS AND JUSTICE ACTIONS page 362 Intro Scn Ethics 2007 edition.
There are 36 levels of ethics and justice action. Expulsion (sp declare) is the last level number 36. This can only happen after the 35 previous steps-like lower conditions, board of investigation, like cert cancellation or committee of evidence etc have been done .
Let me quote after ethics and justice level #36, LRH says “THE ABOVE IS ROUGH GUIDE TO THE SEVERITY OF DISCIPLINE. NOTE THAT NONE OF IT CARRIES PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT OR DETENTION” page 364.
Anyone declared sp who has not had the 35 previous ethics gradients is not declared sp per policy and is not an sp! Also any “instant” declares are invalid because they did not follow ethics and justice procedure per policy. The declares are invalid period. The only power a miscavage sp declare has is when people believe that it does.
Don’t believe me. Read it for youself in Intro To Scientology Ethics.
Wow, Dan35, that’s good spotting on the steps/gradients to an SP declare! Its true; so many people declared were not evaluated against those steps which makes the people declared not SPs.!
I think the real issue here is who is deemed a suppressive person. The labeling of SP is what allows the policy to be enforced and as Dan351 posts, there are many steps which should precede this label. Today, the SP declare is done fast flow! However, since the days of St.Hill, it has always been an automatic declare if one speaks publicly against Scientology, which is different than admin staff falling down the conditions, or an auditor who make Gross Auditing Errors. IMHO, the ethics and justice system of Scientology never worked because of inherent flaws and because Scientologist are no different than any other human group when group think becomes the norm.
That is so sad!
Gayle, Very sorry to hear of this tragedy. That it occurred 4 years ago does nothing, I’m sure, to quell the bite and sting that I know is bone deep. I’m very sad to hear of this loss. I’m not sure if there’s anything worse that can happen to a person than to lose their own son or daughter.
Thank you Thoughtful,
I sent you an email earlier today.
lv,G
As there is a lot of reporting and commenting on disconnection in re: Miscavige/Church, I would like to for a moment look at the other side of the coin – Enforced Connection. Example: The Squirrelbusters enforced their connection to Marty and Mosey for months and months. Example: PIs shadowing and surveilling Marty and Mike virtually anyplace they go in the world. Example: Their hate websites (enforced covert connection). Couldn’t help but notice the irony in this. Leave the Church, and in certain instances, when they consider you a threat of a certain magnitude they enforce unpleasant and unwanted connections on you while order everyone else to “self-determinedly” disconnect from you.
Good point. They have forced my daughter and ex-wife to stay connected to me and they publish scripted letters from them on their websites — the latest just a month ago!
Mike, what one resists, just persists. I’d just encourage them to go for it. Eat your hearts out! Then when they they find out they don’t have one any more, mebbe they will start to look for it?
I feel for you Mike. Using your own kids and ex wife as mouthpieces to spew their vile entheta at you is just despicable.
SSOA,
INDEED and you make your point well about the stalkers. Our under the radar brothers and sisters as well feel this other side of the coin suppression every single day.
“Is a piece of paper with some words on it that say your loved one is a suppressive person all it takes to make it TRUE for YOU? REALLY?
Is that piece of paper greater than your own observations? REALLY?
Is what you gain by DOING what you’re told to do “or else” worth it REALLY?
Is it REALLY?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81I5NkudQm0
Such a sad story.
Many people in the church are brainwashed to believe that only through disconnection will the “out-ethics” person come to their senses and take the necessary steps to get back into good graces with the church.
Personally, I’m very happy to not be “in-good” with an insanely controlling, money grubbing, freedom destroying, anti-family,truth defying,status seeking, bombastic, hyperbolic and increasingly fraudulent
religious cult. Did I leave out anything?
On a positive note – I still love the tech.
I love your post Sheldon!
Sheldon, you covered it!
Gawd, I want my kid back, released from the c of m.
Gayle, thank you for sharing this.
Thanks Mike for being there for her.
Bluebonnet,
I wish the very same for you and hope that you have people close to you to help you through the hard times of it.
Love, Gayle
Gayle, all I can do is echo what has been said. Thank you for speaking out! I share your grief.
For the enablers (OSA, MAA’s, Ethics Officers, PI’s et al) the noose is tightening. Just
follow the consequences of your actions, if you can?!
From the book “The Sociopath Next Door”; “We are not commonly aware of, nor do
we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who
often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides
little defense.” BUT sorry about your KARMA. And the law will somehow sooner or
later catch up with you. It usually does. “Little defense” does not mean no defense.
Gayle, thank you so much for sharing the tragic loss of your son Collin. This is a time for deep reflection and contemplation, and looking ahead to another chapter in store for him. Perhaps you may derive some comfort from the words of the great Kahlil Gibran in his masterpiece, The Prophet:
And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, speak to us of Children. And he said: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself. They come through you but not from you. And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the Archer’s hand be for gladness: For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Thank you Calvin,
That’s a beautiful piece.
Love, Gayle
Calvin, as a father, that piece touched me more than I can tell you. Thank you for sharing it.
You’re welcome, Gayle & Ronnie. BTW, “The Prophet” is available as a small paperback at any reputable bookstore. There are 27 short topics on life’s key interests, Each of them a masterpiece of timeless truth. LRH himself had expressed awe and admiration for this philosopher. ( K. Gibran )
A powerful, powerful message. I wish you as much peace as your heart can hold. You have suffered through something that is unimaginable to most people. Forgive yourself. Your love for your son is a part of you. It lives in you, in your heart and your memories. He is not far away. God bless Gayle.
Thank you for the blessing Sidney.
Love, Gayle
Oh, Gayle! Your words have touched me so. I admire the courage you have to tell this story. I think you telling it will help others wake up, it has to.
I am proud to know you.
After i read this i know that i will be an independent forever. This is my group. Gayle you are an incredible being with an incredibly great heart.
Louis,
I’ve found strength in the fight you and your beautiful wife and our dearest Mike Rinder have brought to the doorstep of the man whose is perpetrating a constant and continual effort to harm and destroy you, me, and everyone we know.
I’m proud of you too.
Love, Gayle
Dear Gayle,
You’ve learned so painfully how thin the space is between life and death and that lives can turn on a dime.
In 1980 I received a phone call from my mother while I was on staff. Actually she called to speak with my former husband, knowing I would need someone when she told me the news. My father, at 57, had killed himself.
After the room stopping reeling, after I attended his funeral and gave the LRH funeral ceremony in addition to a minister, I returned to post. AND was never able to reconcile – “greatest good, clearing the planet, three D more important etc” — I left the SO on July 4, 1980 to be exact.
My best childhood friend (who remains my closest friend – never a scientology) lost her youngest son at 21 years of age — 9 years ago. She is starting to recover. My grief, losing my father, while deep and profound does not and cannot compare to the numbness, pain and deep distress of a mother losing her child.
I was “under cover” on Marty’s blog for years until the tragic death of Alexander Jentzsch. At which point, I came forward.
I am working currently with someone who was abandoned by her mother at 15 years of age. And hopefully soon her story will be told in greater detail by Tony Ortega.
What you have painfully learned is that TOMORROW is a hope. It’s not a guarantee. PLANNING is a hope, it’s not a guarantee. Next lifetime is a hope, it’s not a guarantee.
The ONLY guarantee any of us have is what we do HERE and NOW. Right this minute.
Thank you for coming forward. As a buddhist, it is my deepest belief that the communication between you and you son REGARDLESS where he is … is never broken. That parental bonding is IMPRINTED in his consciousness — (buddhists call it the mind) … and that imprint fashions his current life …
Breathe deeply into the space that you had together – where you held him – and that tenderness and bond will continue in his current existence.
Nothing is ever lost.
Love,
Christine
Dear Christine,
Thank you for the beautiful thoughts. There was a night a year ago when my son and I were in my description of it talking to each other. Something we’d been doing off and on since the night he died. I finally decided that I wanted to have a physical universe sign that I wasn’t just hoping he was there; a thought that would creep in from time to time. On this night I asked him for a sign. I’d been going out on that balconey every night to look out in to the night sky over the Gulf. On this night however and at that moment immediately following my request a star fell across the sky. Tears of joy fell and laughter replaced the previous moment of feeling the loss of not being able to wrap my arms around him. I lived there for years now and this is the only time I’ve seen a falling star there.
I’m very sorry to hear about you father and your friend’s son.
Love, Gayle
I cried again Gayle. But the sign was his comm and you got it! You two ARE in comm! The theta does go on and he knows you love him and you know he loves you. That must be a comfort in spite of all the other stuff. That was a very theta and inspiring story.
Thank you Jane.
lv,g
Gayle, Jane just said what I wanted to say. Love is eternal. Bodies die but thetans do not. Your son knows everything, and understands everything and you and he are connected and will always be so.. Physical universe force is no match for the power of pure affinity. Thetans cannot be prevented from communicating with one another directly. That you and and your son are separated is the apparency; that you and he are unseverably connected is the reality.
a proud mother
Gayle —
My friend goes to visit her son at the cemetery occasionally — because of our scientology beliefs in the past I kinda discounted this but it brings her tremendous comfort. She lies on the grass and looks up into the sky … one day she had a profound “sign” as well — and it’s been very healing for her.
Thank you for your kind words about my father and my friend.
Love,
Christine
I got something in my eye reading that, Gayle. I too, have had the exact same experiences with a departed loved one, and you just brought it all back to me.
Thank you for sharing the pain you held to yourself for so long. It’s good to let it go. We’re all here to help as-is that loss and turn it into a new breath of eternal life.
People stay in the church because they ARE LIED TO. They think Scientology is expanding and doing good things all over the world. LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES
They don’t know the real purpose of auditing in the CofS it to collect blackmail, so they can slander and attack anyone who figures out the scam. They don’t know you are A TOTAL NOTHING to the CofS and if you criticize, think for yourself, change your mind, whatever, then NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR THEM, it is your head on the chopping block.
Have you seen “Anonymous-Message to Scientology Parishioners”? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhqwEy3ORw THEY CARE ABOUT WHAT THE EVIL COFS DOES
Mike, as the existing spokesperson for the Independent world of Scientology I admire the fashion that you continue to represent what is good and pure of LRH. He would never have approved the lengths at which Miscavige has gone to rip apart families and caused the pain that he has. You Mike are a champion for us all and a fine representative of Truth. Thank you for this fine well phrased presentation. You are good people!
Gayle, I had no idea that you had been bearing the kind of pain that exists here. To lose a son and a gifted one as well and so loved by others…he definitely left his mark on the world. You are indeed one of the strongest beings I have ever known and your willingness and ability to help others as a skilled auditor the bells toll for thee. Your story has brought buckets of tears to my world this day and caused a rendering of my spirit that further cements my intention to bring the little Napoleon to justice.
It is of enormous solace that you and I are friends and I appreciate beyond words that our mutual good friend who brought us together agrees that you are such a fine and strong willed person to have reared such fine boys. To stand up to such a loss is admirable indeed. Love to you Gayle. Your perseverance in delivering standard LRH Tech is a tribute to both of your sons.
Mike,
GOOD! and I have no doubt that you have your ways of contributing to such a motion. Thank you.
Best to you,
Gayle
Gayle, thank you for telling your story and for your empathy to help other families spare themselves the pain of yours.
Pathological terror is what fuels the Miscavige machine that forces disconnection on those who question his machine. Miscavige’s terror is well founded. He should be very, very afraid.
This was so hard to read as it is very close to home for me. I felt my heart break and the tears gushed out. It is a story that needed to be told so that others in the corporate church or those who think it doesn’t apply to them, who think it is the “greatest good” to force disconnection, can hopefully see the truth and do something to change it. Mike, thank you for all your caring and all you do.
Persistence,
yes persistence is a gift it seems that not everyone has found again. Mike Rinder is one of my sources of strength for persistence. Christie and Mike have been the Rocks of Gibraltar for us in many ways. I am grateful that I’ve come to a place where I could contribute to Mike’s motion to Christie’s motion toward the future of being reunited with their own families that I know they love and care so much for and miss so much. We have in many ways all of here clung to each other like flotsam and jetsam and through that experience find the will to not just live but to fight back and claim our rights and live again.
I thank you too Mike for caring and all you do that is in the end meant to right wrongs that cob needs to be accountable for.
Love, Gayle
Gayle, you write so beautifully. Your story touched my heart and brought me to tears. I felt the same thing you did. Mike, that you took time to assuage this being is giant. Thank you. Gayle you truly are inspirational.
ML Tom
Your one of my heroes Tom. You know what it’s like to go to hell and back. I appreciate your ability to tell that tale.
Love, Gayle
Gayle after reading your story I am still trying to stop crying.
I think may people will have the same reaction.
Dear Heather,
I’m so sorry for the creation of such sorrow. I know how it feels. I know it’s not intentional to upset someone and I appreciate that you understand that I it had to be said.
Love, Gayle
You would have to have a heart of stone to read this and still want to be connected to the church of scientology.
My heart goes out to you Gayle! Sending you big (((HUGS)))
Thank you Lori,
Your actions and the news of it that I’ve read has been an inspiration for some time. It just kept me looking for a way to be able to say it and then the relief came and I felt I finally could.
For months, I’ve sent you all my good wishes and intentions to see you and your son and daughter united and FREE.
Best to you,
Gayle
Dear Gail,
Thank you so much for saying the beautiful words that are in my heart but I was not able to squeeze out of my pen. My heart has been broken by my sons Jamie Royce and Conan Royce.I know some of the lies that were told to them as they were told to me when Kristina and I were routing out of the Sea Org back in 2004 at Flag. I was brought into a room with the Staff Maa who explained to me that Kris was in deep case trouble. That she had messed up on her OT7 and that’s why she was blowing the SO. It was my job to …….. Of course she had a sane CS for OT7 and was tested and found to have no Out Tech and in fact wasn’t messed up in her case. What was happening was that she had spotted so many major departures from LRH that she couldn’t be a part of the program any longer. Her conclusions were that the Out Tech was coming from the most senior place Miscavige and that there was no hope of repairing it as Qual had been dismantled by him at the highest level which had filtered down to FLAG by that time. So one lie told to the boys is that the reason their mother left Sci is because her case is messed up and the only way they could help her is to hold their position and force her to get back in good graces with the church to get fixed. There were other lies and third party which I won’t go into here. The main point is there was enough false data given to the kids to turn them against their parents.
Richard,
What they did with your children, to tell them that and to then leave you two stuck with the worst of wrong indications and injustice is the ultimate unsolvable and created problem through suppressive use of tech that’s demanding a solution or you lose your family. It’s enough to make a strong mind crack. I believe cob knows that his enforcement (and I do mean HIS enforcement) of this suppressive “policy” does cause such effects and that he actually enjoys it, not just is bored with it but enjoys it. That’s my idea of who he is.
I’m very sorry for your loss and also very much seeing this suppression all ending sooner than later. How long can a crazed man fool the people? as long as they let him. I think there’s a dedicated group of those who intend to see this through.
Please continue to put your attention on what it is you do want to happen if that’s not already part of your daily routine to “see it being so”. If it is then we are very much on the same page and moving in the same direction.
Best to you,
Gayle
Gayle,
You are right it is totally real suppression. David M in his sadistic delusion enjoys the suffering of others so the plus side of this is that I have provided him with some pleasure in life misguided and perverted as it is. The poor guy can’t possibly have much pleasure in life with all the lawsuits, the lack of real friends or anyone who really loves him. The adoration of the sheeple based on the lies he presents as a smokescreen can’t possibly substitute for the real unconditional love he has eliminated from his life. What an empty life that must be! MEST can’t substitute for respect earned. He knows he is a fraud, a usurper a false read! This must be a very tough lesson for him as a being and I hope he works through it so that he can also feel alive! It must suck to be Misgavage!
Oh I agree, I personally found his space full of the low toned emotions and randomities that reflect what you say, more on that below. I was at Flag from early 94- early 2000 for my Snr CS training line-up. What were the posts you and your wife held at that time Richard? I remember Conan. Didn’t he became a deputy capt at one point or an O/O? Jamie I do not recall from my time there.
It’s been interesting to reflect back on that time period at Flag and cob being on the base for many months. We spoke many times as odd as that may be. I vividly recall one time in particular when he was standing inches literally inches away from me and I could hear the snap, crackly and pop in his space. I became curious at the lack of life that I felt in him. I learned later about so much of what had already happened or was going on in his life during that encounter. Marty had blown for good, the top execs were in the Hole, the McPhearson case was ongoing – point being – his space contained all the fear, hate, rage, distrust and results of disloyalty in it. “He” sounded like a machine, meaning his space emanated a factory of sounds of overworked, gear-grinding, getting ready to blow the gaskets sounds. If he held the cans I wouldn’t have been surprised to see a stage four needle.
It’s all about money.
Divide and conquer is tech used by Romans
and earlier Hunter and gatherer tribes.
It is ancient tech.
David Miscavige knows this and uses it to make money !
manger and a ”religious leader”.
KA posted the following links below on Mike’s site. I am re-posting them here because it is important that these disconnection stories go to more than just the “preaching to the choir” crowd. These need media attention. Please also post on the blogs below. Thank you, KA for these:
http://stopdisconnection.com/ is the right blog to report these stories and it should be cross linked on all “living-on-the-fringe-of-the-Internet” blogs. It needs a “Big List” (similar to https://sites.google.com/site/biglistthatleftscientology/) of the disconnection stories to refer the public and media to.
Gayle, I feel like my heart has been ripped out and stomped on. I can only help ease your pain by telling you that there are people who will read this who will snap out of it and recover their families. Your words, read by any rational human being, will do just that. I hope you find happiness in all things that you do.
Excellent post Gayle. Perhaps someone knows the exact LRH lecture/reference (made in the 50’s) where he clearly makes the point that Scientologists are people who are trying to help themselves and others, and that to assign an evil intention to them is an error. He said EVERY Scientologist is a person of goodwill and the use of “No communication lists” (disconnection) has never been of any real benefit and should not be used.
Whether a person agree’s (or not) with what David Miscavige is doing with the church, it should not be a barrier to really carefully consider the point that LRH made. There have been THOUSANDS of good people with good intentions who have contributed to Scientology for decades who no longer support the current church or it’s management. They deserve a voice. These are GOOD people with GOOD intentions who ARE helping. The bridge is available out side the church. You do not have to live in fear. Your friends are in the same boat. Many have already left. LRH advises that you take care to observe, and that what you observe is true for you.
I weep for your loss.
This was posted from another of Mike’s readers. I copied and pasted it here again cuz it is good advice IMHO. “A suggestion to those who want to speak out and “do” something. Call your local newspaper and ask to speak to an assignment editor. Explain your involvement in the COS and your disconnection story and your current views of what a destructive organization your former “church” has become. Tell them that you would be willing to be interviewed and have photos taken. You should have proof of past involvement and pictures and letters from your loved ones who were forced to disconnect. You don’t have to allow the letters to printed, a reporter will describe the message.
Newspapers will print these type of “human interest” stories. They will come to you. With newspapers also being online now, these stories will educate many people and make them aware that there is something very very wrong with the “church”.
If you are already declared and disconnected you can’t make things worse. You will be standing up for what is right and know that you are part of something big. And something right.
In your own way and in your own area, you will have done something, because…….something CAN be done about it.”
So do it!
Coop, when you wrote, “So do it!” were you saying that to me specifically that I should do it? Or to the group as in, “right on, I support what she said…. do it”?
If you meant it to me personally, I don’t have a disconnection story to go to the press with. (for which I’m thankful at this moment.)
Gayle, what you write is so powerful and true.
We met just a couple of months ago at Mike & Christies’s and you told us the story of your son. Would love to hear from you direct, please write me at: dnlmbrgr@yahoo.com.
DM’s hold on people is by tearing their families apart, or by preventing them from having children and families. He’s even done that to his wife.
Let me know if I can be of help, Dani
Gayle, I cried when I read your story. My heart goes out to you and your family. It is very good that you publicly published this to show the world what DM and his church does to families. I hope Tony Ortega and other media pick it up. Maybe if enough outside pressure from media and others is put on the church for its disconnection policy, it might just bring it to a stop. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Bloody hell!
A searing and gut-felt message from a casualty on the front lines of the war Miscavige is waging on human beings.
Nothing further can be said.
Gayle,
You are an inspiration to all of us who have shared the pain of disconnection. Colin knows your love as do we all.
Thank you for speaking out and for striking a blow against violations of human rights. Your have my admiration.
Coop
Cooper,
I don’t feel like an inspiration. I feel like a person would feel who has to reflect on a life that includes this tragedy and find some way for it to mean something, anything that any positive could come from. Collin was pursuing with voracity a law degree for the stated purpose to “bring the church down”. I found out too late why. There are those inside the machine who believe that I’m just “stuck” in this incident or some other one of long ago. How little they must believe the tech works to wrap that package up and tie a bow around it. How utterly sad for them to simplify something with such little KRC for the tech that they have and brush their hands of it. How incredibly painful they will find it to be when they finally take the lid off of that package. My inspiration is them. Those who are caught up in the confusion and grabbing false stable datums. I wait for them patiently.
Well said Gayle, I am proud to have you as a friend .
Mike, I sit here in profound gratitude to you for taking me in session last week-end and for the first time addressing things that made it impossible for me to tell this too but a few people. I’ve known I needed to do it and yet the words were always cut off by the same suffocating moment that knocked me to my hands and knees when his twin brother called me to tell me we’d lost Collin. It’s been a long time brewing and now perhaps the barriers removed will enable me to find a way to open the flow to those who think the worst thing that could happen to them is to lose a few friends who aren’t friends after all or are so threatened by the machine that they lose themselves in the effort to hold on to a shadow.
I’m grateful and thank you for the OT review and if Collin were here today he’d be thanking you too.
Thank you, Mike, for auditing Gayle. If I cried just reading it, I cant’ imagine what she went through experiencing it and living with it. Thank you so much for applying the tech to a woman in need, Mike. You have a Ka Khan in my book.
I have no words I can onley post a song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaI2PRp1kw#t=245
Cat Daddy,
The link didn’t work for me but I did go to youtube and watch it just now. It could have been a song about my experience yes. Please see the comment I made earlier but down further on this thread to Windhorse. I think it will make you smile like it did me when I listened to this song.
Thank you and best to you,
Gayle
Wow Gayle. At the best you are among friends.
Hugs, Cece