It’s Saturday — Terra Cognita is in the house!
Grief and Leaving Scientology
In 1969, Swiss psychiatrist, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross introduced her famous five stages of grief. Later, she expanded the model to include trauma such as the death of a loved one, major rejection, and the onset of disease. Over the years, others have modified her model. Her original five stages are:
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Depression
- Acceptance
Many Scientologists go through similar stages when leaving the church. Others pass through these stages once they’ve left.
Denial
Most ex-Scientologists that I know personally, or with whom I’m familiar by what they’ve written, denied something was wrong with the organization when they were still a member—especially in the beginning.
Many turned a blind eye to the misapplication of decent policy. More than few staff carried out years of reckless, hurtful, and destructive programs. All pretended not to see the vast differences between what church leader, David Miscavige, reported at annual events and what was happening inside their empty and insolvent orgs. They looked the other way while trying to convince themselves that there were good reasons why decent people were being declared suppressive persons. Cognitive dissonance infested their reasoning like hungry termites in a turn of the century clapboard house.
Many believed DM was making things better by introducing The Basics, GAT I, GAT II, Super Power, SUMP, and one ideal org after another. Members hoped these reforms would fill up all the empty chairs in their orgs and, on a personal level, handle what was ruining their lives. All denied there was anything “off” with Scientology tech and policy.
Anger
Periodically I got angry.
I wrote Knowledge Reports. I complained to division heads. I talked with the ED. I grumbled to my spouse. I provided “openings” for my friends to engage in conversation about Scientology. When I was thrown in Ethics for speaking my mind, I got angry at the snotty-nosed, teenaged MAA charged with “handling” me.
I became angry at an organization that had allowed its leader to steer it down a path of destruction.
And finally, I became angry with myself for letting myself be led by the nose for so many years.
At this point, many Scientologists are fed up with the abuse and leave. Others go on to stage 3.
Bargaining
In this stage, members bargain not only with themselves, but with Ethics—that branch of Scientology in charge of making sure members toe the line.
In the Church of Scientology, “bargaining” typically involves working one’s way up from lower conditions, which include writing up all of one’s transgressions, making amends, promising to be a better group member and begging to be allowed to stay. If one happened to be stuck at Flag, making a large financial donation to the IAS was always a treat.
Members are persuaded that they’re to blame for their disaffection. The Org’s doing poorly because they and their brethren aren’t contributing enough—they aren’t putting in enough time on course; they haven’t disseminated to a new person (much less, brought one into the org) in years. They’ve held back disclosing lascivious thoughts in session; taken vacations without getting an approved CSW from the sup; gone to movies on Sunday afternoons when they could have been on course. The list goes on and on.
Parishioners promise—bargain with themselves—to do better. They vow to “get their ethics in” once and for all. Whatever it takes.
In Psychology Today Magazine, Suzanne Lachmann wrote, “Bargaining can only briefly distract from the experience of loss. Reality inevitably comes crashing down, over and over again. Further, when you bargain, you are trying to take responsibility for why the relationship doesn’t work, which may give you the illusion that you have control over it, perpetuating the belief that it’s salvageable as long as you just keep performing superhuman acts.”
Sounds like life in the SO.
Depression
In this stage, members become depressed at the sorry state of affairs of both the organization and their personal lives.
With greater frequency they recognize the hopelessness of what they’re doing. Scientology isn’t what it was cracked up to be. They’re on their third marriage, their kids have blown, their health is failing, and unless they take out a second mortgage on the house, there’s no way they’ll be able to route on to OT 6 and 7 and, once and for all, handle what’s ruining their lives.
Closely related to depression is fear. (LRH positioned the two emotions right next to each other on his Tone Scale.) Fear is also a device many religions use to control their members.
Scientologists are afraid of the consequences of “blowing,”—leaving the church. They’re afraid of losing all their family and friends. Some are afraid of losing their jobs. For those in the Sea Org, having to face the “real world” can be daunting. Especially for those with no money, formal education, technical skills, or experience outside the church.
Many who leave Scientology experience real depression. Some take years to come to grips with what they went through. Too frequently, ex-members have no one close with whom they can talk candidly. Since it’s been drilled into their heads that the mental health industry is suppressive, seeking mainstream counseling is beyond consideration. For many, suicide is seen as a viable solution during this precarious time.
Acceptance
Many Scientologists leave the church at this stage.
They accept the organization is rotten. They accept they can’t continue. They can’t face a fourth iteration of a new Ethics course. They refuse keep shelling out buckets of money for something that doesn’t seem to work. Sea Org members realize they’re never going to fullfil that billion year contract. Despite the consequences, they can’t take the lying, hypocrisy, and abuse anymore. It’s finally time to tighten the shoelaces and walk away.
For those who’ve already left, they accept they made mistakes while involved with the church. They accept they messed up—spiritually, personally, and socially. They accept they were “played.” Many believe they never should have become involved from the outset.
Many ex-Scientologists have been saddled with years of “stable data” that doesn’t jive with the outside world, muddling their thinking, skewing their logic, and making it hard for them to accept the truth. Everything from how to handle a yawn while reading a novel to how to interact with the neighbor’s gay son has to be relearned.
Last Words
People move up and down this model. They fall in and out of stages depending on circumstances. Some become mired in one stage or another for years. Others skip stages altogether. Nothing is written in stone. All people are different. No path is the same for everyone.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
Were you able to recover your basic personality after leaving? Or are you forever changed by the experience? Do you feel more resentful, or relieved, or…?
I watched the Aftermath reruns last night. .very disturbing
I have to say Scientology practices are cruel..
Their the most cold hearted .. Uncaring. ..brutal and greedy organization that exists .
One thing is sure: there is life after Scientology.
I know.
What pissed me off about Scientology is that I never gained any ability and lost my personality.
I became disabled through my job, the stages of grief are experienced and I was a psychologist who explained it too me so that I understood what was happening to me. The thing I lost, that I grieve the most, was being in a leadership position. I was a really good leader, totally opposite of authoritarianism. The loss of that part of my identity is devastating…. I can imagine how the loss of Scientology would honestly traumatize ex members, losing such a huge part of their identity, loss of that community and possibly not having a skill set to do anything else. Those that get up on a public stage, exposing themselves to ridicule and hatred from a community they loved are warriors, to me they’re all hero’s because rather than just caring about themselves they’re thinking of others when they take that stage.
I read her book years ago long. It still resonate in my mind.
There’s a book titled Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation written by the late Dr. Ian Stevenson
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
The book in a scientific details open to peer review format. His research I believe was financed by the inventor of the Polaroid camera. I still have the book somewhere in my home library. After reading his book I felt very empowered notwithstanding church of $cientology’s entheta.
Thank you TC. When I left I felt like I shouldn’t, couldn’t speak to anyone about my feelings. What a burden to carry. Scientology claims that they are “Freeing Beings”. Once I figured out that I needed to get the hell out I felt nothing but trapped, until I did so. I never told any of my non-Scientologist friends or family of my experiences until this year, and I’ve been out a decade. What a mind #*%&. Thanks for your blog and for Mike and Leah, as well as all the other brave souls that have spoken out and keep on doing this.
You’re welcome.
I think anyone who’s lived a while has known grief at one time or another; often more than once, and each time was probably different than before. Being deeply involved with a cult like scientology can be a heady, deeply emotional experience, making separation extremely painful and traumatic.
While Kubler-Ross’s ideas have been debunked as unscientific, there’s no gainsaying that they resonate with many who have experienced and are experiencing grief, and there’s no denying the salutary effect they can have in helping people realize that there’s an end to the pain and suffering to look forward to.
Great post. Been there done that. Really makes sense to me.
Wynskii – I think you would also have to understand a person’s motive for joining in the first place. That fuels the commitment to a group. When deciding to leave and after leaving different people will hit upon different points. A fluid concept, not fixed. Just sayin’.
Absolutely Cgarrison. Just sayin’ that those emotions listed are not what everyone goes through and is not science.
Wnynski: You’re right. Everyone’s different. And this isn’t science.
Thank you again for your thoughts.
There are so many ways to get out. (50 ways to leave your lover)
But none are real to me except for mine.
I can’t imagine “questioning”. “having doubts” “investigating”
I can’t imagine stages of “getting out”. For me, it went, devout with 100% certainty for near 4 decades, to torture-idea-breakdown-done – the out was instantaneous with the hidden mental breakdown.
I’m still at stage 0 = insane and unable to look inward for any opinion without severe consequences.
…….
You can find me over here, in a corner, clutching teddies.
Ah well.
…..
I really like reading all the various ways ya’ll got out. It’s weird and funny. I can still feel and see the Old Viewpoint. Everyone still seems salvageable. Except me. I’m nuts.
🙂
Thanks for being out, however it came to be.
SecretNoLonger, I hope that you’re able to get some help for what sounds like a very tough time.
That’s a very long time to be down and, if I understand you correctly, to have been a complete true believer until the end.
You write very well…so raw and evocative. Do you think that it would help to pour your heart and tell us your story? I’m sure that you’d find a receptive and engaged audience here.
Oh, thanks again for your care. You are so compassionate.
I think it would be helpful to diary/blog – but mainly I’m afraid of having it found somehow. I need to be UTR and it’s tricky. (I can’t tell much here, it would just out me) I would like to someday speak with someone with similar experience to my own, I think it would be easier to evolve, get through this, work it out, recover, ..- in tandem with someone else, or with someone who’s already ahead of me.
That’s what my gut craves.
I have a couple of safe non-scio, and a friend who is out (but still likes the tech) I could speak with, but I try to rein it in. They don’t have the same experiences so there’s a bunch missing …and I just can’t bring myself to really get into the shattered mind stuff. I just come unglued too easily.
Introspection on any of this just destroys me. I’ve tried a bit but I can’t worry them, I’ve already seen what a little bit does – I WORRY THEM. This is bad.
….
So I try to not think, to not remember, to not worry, to not wonder, to not demand any answer at all about anything from myself.
Losing the group, losing the certainty, losing purpose, losing all answers, that’s tough, and hiding it is tough, but it’s just made so much harder because of the shattered mind and insanity.
…
So. I just try not to think and move alonnnnnggggg.
You guys are great. I’m so glad I’m out, despite the trouble. I’m so glad to have you all.
Secretfornow: Your name says it all.
We are all here for you and you are not alone. No one will judge you. I truly think this is a safe place for you if you want to unburden yourself and begin to heal your broken heart. Sharing such emotions is scary and a huge step so if you just can’t bring yourself to talk about it yet, I understand. But please just know you are not alone and if you ever need to just finally let it all out I believe that there are people on this message board who can be a huge support and comfort to you. In the meantime I wish you well and peace.
thank you. I unburden and share with you all as I can. I am interested in everyone’s story and ideas. I can’t share details too much as I need to stay hidden. I’m not willing to lose more than I have.
May I suggest you share them with Mike, privately via email or another means you and he determine together is safe for you? I am certain enough that he can be trusted to keep a secret that I’d entrust him with the name my rapist – the man I fought to have convicted and imprisoned, and won – knew me by, along with my full current legal name, phone number, house address, and social security number.
By the way, the name I use here includes my legal first name, and you also should see a photo taken within the past year. I’m not hiding from you guys. I *am*, and have been, from the man who raped me.
Dearest Secret,
I can think of no worse feelings then to be completely & utterly betrayed by someone or something you placed your entire heart, mind & soul around. Something or someone you gave your all to, that you trusted & gave complete commitment & loyalty to 100% without question, only after months, years, decades of loyalty to find out the truth.
Yes, finding out the truth hurts & cuts to the core of our being. Rips our hearts out, rubs salt into the already bleeding wounds & continues to cut us even more deeply by removing our hearts through smear sites & disconnection policy AND having to readjust to a NEW world we are not at all familiar with.
This organization is without soul or caring, they are TAKERS not givers….let me rephrase that…they GIVE PAIN & HURT…it’s the only thing they can use to get to you, to hurt you, to get back at you for cutting ties with them, for losing their financial source of income from you along with all the low paid labor you did for them only to try to walk away & receive their anger & rejection.
As it has been said, always attack…& they do that with a vengeance through use of denials & smear sites. With so many speaking out, like a well oiled machine, the stories are horrific tales of both physical, emotional & sexual abuse. NOTE how there has been no one yet to step forward to say “Yes, I quit & they let me go with all good wishes & several thousand dollars in back pay”. These folks lived the life you lived, they suffered the consequences of their own decision to stay in….until they could not take it any longer. They saw & finally understood the truth as have you.
The GOOD news Secret is that you are now free. It’s never easy to begin life anew, it takes hard work to restart you life, to readjust to a life you’ve never lived before, but it can be done. For decades some lived “that life” & with no real money, education, job experience it was like a young kid trying to find their way in the world.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE my dear…..you never will be as so many are here to support you. Your pain is our pain, we wrap our arms around you with love & understanding.
Fear is a great motivator to keep you IN the loop of the organization….the fear of ‘what will I do now, where will I go now, how will I survive? That is what keeps people involved to this day, FEAR.
You ARE salvageable….the old saying that sometimes we need to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, & start all over again CAN be accomplished. Nothing wrong with clutching teddies if need be, if you get some comfort out of it. But know that you are a most wonderful person, your writings clearly show your deep compassion & love for others…..LOVE YOURSELF ENOUGH to get well & continue to speak up & speak out, & get some counseling or therapy to begin to heal those deep wounds.
You are extremely brave to have written your story. You can now feel free to seek the help you need through therapy which THEY can no longer DENY you. Honey, take that step to unburden yourself…..make that call to free yourself of the control you feel “they” still have over you.
Thanks, BalletLady.
I worked in orgs for almost forever, and when people are “off lines” and not doing service, we want to “salvage them”. Salvage them back onto the bridge to total freedom.
So one of the things I deal with is the entire Old Viewpoint with everything SCN still living and breathing within, even when I know in my heart that it’s all bunk and just made up by A Guy, (not “Mankind’s Greatest Friend”) … even though I truly know it and I’ll never ever do anything scn again…. I still have this other person alive within who knows it all and has the answers.
So when I hear people complaining it = natter = overts = need to do O/W write up, need to do conditions, and so on. They have MUs, they are PTS, they “need a handling”.
It’s all too woven in and though I’ve shucked the language as much as possible – a work in progress – I still think and feel the concepts and have to banish them. Some, I just can’t. Too deeply embedded. Still working on it. 🙂
So when I said they were salvageable, I meant that I read what they write and they still seem to be possible to recover back onto the bridge to total freedom.
Barf.
🙂
……..
and …it’s hard to even write anything like this at all, because I’m not a whiner, and being a victim is death in scn, and weakness has no place in my life, “no case on post” and so on.
I cringe when I get compassionate replies, it makes me feel like I’ve said the wrong things and I’m being a little whiny victim and I keep deciding to never write again. I just want to add in my 2 cents, I don’t want to make anyone feel sorry for me.
I’m lucky. I’m out. I’m still fighting the fight.
🙂
Keep fighting your inner demons. It is extremely hard, almost impossible to do a complete turn around in the way one once lived. Being basically indoctrinated & deeply ingrained in you that it’s all you know & can accept. I met a woman over a decade ago who was a member of a deeply “religious sect”…..everything & everyone was controlled including what clothes they wore & hairstyles ( this one was not FLDS). When she started questioning she was shunned & beaten by their so called “leader of the church”, who told her “the Devil lives within you, you are soulless”, & he was helping her “rid her of Satan as in he would beat the Devil out of her” Her parents stayed in, but she found a way at 21 or so (not sure exactly) to literally escape, going for a walk & never returning. She found assistance through Social Services & got her GED & began life anew.
She recalled back then the same as you, having to readjust her thinking, that doing certain things were ok, & yet as I recall some of the lingo remained. All I can say is that this sect used “Bible speak”…thou, ye, goeth etc. As I recall she was extremely shy about speaking to others because they’d give her questions about “where did you come from”?
I am a never in yet from what I’ve read or understand there are MANY who found some of the LRH teaching useful, & there is nothing wrong with that. I’ve had a few career changes & brought with me some of those teachings (policies & procedures) from former jobs along with me & they helped me in the career change, so not ALL is bad so still feeling the concepts that have been so deeply ingrained in you is quite common indeed!
The one way to keep moving forward is to continue your writings. I do not feel anyone is feeling sorry for you at all, everyone who has BEEN THERE wants to lend their support. I haven’t seen anyone on this blog pass out a “crying towel” to another…..it’s like “Hey WE have been there to so we understand you”.
AHH, life’s greatest lesson is to know there really are others out there just like yourself, feeling what you feel, & thinking the same way you’re presently thinking. Those inner demons don’t go away all so easily THAT is why this blog allows people to UNLOAD them, little by little & in doing so, to POST here lets others know it can be done..
Keep in mind there are still those flying under the radar, who’ve yet to find the courage to speak out, ask questions, tell their own story. NO ONE JUDGES YOU, least of all me.
Hey, I’m an old lady, I’ve had many life experiences & with each & every life experience, job, etc. I’ve brought BAGGAGE with me too. We all do, some of that baggage is not easily swept away, no mater how hard we try to rid ourselves of it. Those reminders of lessons learned assure us we will not make the same mistake again, & IF we DO, we are well aware of the consequences that would befall us. Yet, some fall back into that trap out of fear or because their self esteem has been beaten down so far it’s hard to crawl back up again.
You are stronger than you will ever know, each day is a new step in the right direction. Your BEST statement is that you are willing to keep fighting the fight. That speaks of your character in the best way. Each day that passes is a victory.
You are a survivor, not a victim.
Secret – I feel for you for I have been through my own journey of pain,doubt, guilt. There have been so many supportive and caring replies to you on this blog…please take the time to read them when you feel bad. As for the guilt about making people feel sorry for your whining…you can not make anyone of us feel any anything we don’t want to, so fah-gedda ’bout it. After leaving a cult I was 2 inches away from a nervous breakdown. One day I realized I would rather spend eternity with my family & friends ( who were not in the group ), than with a bunch of arrogant, judgemental, critical assholes who thought of nothing more than themselves and protecting their own asses. Getting rid of the cult jargon takes awhile but it will happen. Be good and kind to yourself, Secret. Notice your daily victories instead of beating yourself up. Disconnecting from maniacs and their beliefs is traumatic but this too shall pass. All the best to you.
I would say, as a former, that your Little, Inner ‘secret…’, real Self, like my own, had carried it all about as long as it could. I believe this part of you is that part of you ‘that knows all’.
My personal experience is that my Little one, the little me that had experienced everything, is Who holds my power, my knowing; and it is She who shut me down (as this is the real me). I’m so glad She finally revealed Herself to me ten years ago. Since, I’ve worked to heal Her, and life, while different, is gentle, warm; respecting and humorous. Quite simply put, Inner Children aren’t welcome in the Church. And They know it. Their wisdom keeps us, until we wear down enough to hear Their sweet voices. At our core, we’ve never been touched. And our Little, Inner One holdsband is that innocence. Can highly recommend the work of Charles L. Whitfield, M.D. Healing the Child Within. He also wrote Not Crazy, You May Not Be Mentally Ill, about the increased challenge to sanity brought about by the pharmaceutical industry. He’s the real deal. Good luck to you, my dear! ?
“Many turned a blind eye to the misapplication of decent policy.”
There is nothing decent about Scientology; its rotten to the core. Anything which appears decent in it is an illusion, and a lure to make you stick with the cult. I strongly believe L. Ron Hubbard saw Scientology as the bait with the hook…and everyone else in the world as clueless fish. He never cared one bit about helping anyone or anything, besides his own wallet.
“There is nothing decent about Scientology; its rotten to the core. Anything which appears decent in it is an illusion, and a lure to make you stick with the cult.”
This is where I am at too. All the “sweet little bits” I used to love, every single bit of it is damned to Hell. It’s all part of the trap. The ONLY way it works is to believe it, and the first agreement sucks one in to the next, the next, the next.
If you’re lucky, you wake up and find it’s it’s 40 years you’ve wasted, and not more.
I would rather “waste 40 years” & THEN wake up instead of never realizing it & getting sick, old & tossed aside like old shoes while still IN.
Excellent post.I went through the steps you described so well and eloquently. I was very fortunate,when I got out of the cult,that my husband and daughter were already out and it didn’t take me long to get over it.
Thank you, Terra. I have gone through all the stags you mentioned. After my hubby passed I went back to the cherch hoping for help and friendship, they just kept me busy doing silly stuff and didn’t offer, even for money to handle my continual grief. (they knew I didn’t have much, but they did sell me 10 K worth of Stuff)
When I saw how how they had changed, big time since 30 years, smoke and mirrors, it didn’t take me long to see the red flags. Also re-read the Times article, Debbies letter, also Jason Bieghe’s Ireland UTubes and found Tony Ortega’s blog, which helped immensely. Since working public for the GO for almost 4 years in the early 80’s, I became very paranoid and didn’t trust anyone. Hey, they didn’t trust me either I found out ipon return. I was a saint i their eyes for work don, but my conscious was devastated.
I’m through it now, thank God. Like you say, everyone has a different time and experience. Thank you again. Dee Findlay
Hugs to you, Dee. No one should have to be so alone and lost in their grief. I am SO sorry for your loss and I truly hope you have found joy in your life again.
May I suggest the prophet by Kahlil Gibran….a true understanding of life, spirit 🙂 no strings attached
A truly fine book. I’ve read and reread it for over 50 years. Very loving and accepting.
Henni Sincoff – Excellent suggestion. Amazon has a “Look Inside” feature on The Prophet which presents the first chapter, “The Coming of the Ship”. Many reviewers says they read The Prophet over and over. I’ve already read that first chapter three times. 🙂
Just a note to everyone – I am changing my online name from my initials (T.J.) to my first name, plus last name initial (TashaJ) plus the numbers 22 (it has personal significance)
This is because I’ve noticed that someone else is using the name TJ both here, and at other sites, and I don’t want anyone mistaking that person’s posts for mine.
To clarify: this is the only Scientology related board that I post at, and whoever is using the name TJ at Tony Ortega’s board or any other site is not me.
TashaJ22 (formerly T.J.)
Thanks Mike Rinder for letting me and all of us post at your site, this is a great place to exchange information and opinion, and I want to mention that I really appreciate that the people posting on this site stay positive, relevant, and polite. That’s not always the case elsewhere, which is why I only post here.
Have a good weekend everyone. Looking forward to next week’s Leah Remini Aftermath show, Regraded Being on Friday and Terra Cognita on Saturday.
So you and everyone else knows — next week is NOT a new show. Nor the week after. The next NEW SHOW IS 10 OCTOBER and it is one that is very hard to watch. There needs to be a couple of weeks respite (according to the people that make these decisions, which is not me). THere will be reruns of earlier episodes all day on Tuesday and next week.
Thank you for the heads up about the next couple weeks.
Aftermath is amazing. .season 1 and so far 2..Mike and Leah you must be exhausted
excellent. The shows could be on a 24/7 loop and it would be all to the good.
Thank you for the warning about the difficult viewing ahead. *shudder.
Last Tues they were showing re-runs of Leah’s Aftermath on A & E nonstop. A NON Scn friend of mine binge watched 5 shows back to back. That is hard core. I was happy to hear he did it as it means one more person knows the truth.
Every Tuesday I watch all the reruns leading up to the newest show. This situation is so emotional that each time I watch I get something new that I missed before. With every viewing the perfidy of Scientology and DM just goes deeper and deeper. I also watch the reruns because as a Never In, it helps me understand some of the more confusing and convoluted aspects of this Organization. All of the technical jargon and the various ideology is sometimes hard to understand and takes a few times to grasp.
Thank you Mike for the head’s up. My teenage daughter asked about the show last night. She’s watched all of Season One with me, is following Season Two, and is coming to understand some of the few things I’ve shared over the years. My son (also a teenager) has not watched. He has a hard time with things like this. He feels compelled to do something, but feels powerless because of his age. It is torturous for him.
When the show flashed the photo, last week, of the old CC at eighth and Alvarado it sparked so many memories for me. I shared with my family how I took my first communications course there, how my Aunt took the same course with a young John Travolta, how kind Vickie DeVries was and how much us kids on course loved her, how my Mom became an auditor and an advocate for her friend Tory, how Ted Cassidy (Lurch) would crouch under the doors of the break truck in the parking lot because he was so tall, how I had a crush on three guys from Beverly Hills High who attended course with my siblings and I, how everyone talked about Jeff Lewis, John Brodie, Peggy Lipton and others who were the “names” of the day.
This show is bringing understanding to so many lives. At the end of each show my daughter says I need to contact you and Leah. My sister, who was at Flag Clearwater and later in the RPF at big blue, has asked me to come forward with her and share the story of our family. Her daughter was at the Ranch and got out at age 8. I’m afraid to even ask her about her experience there. My sister’s Ex (niece’s Dad) is still in. I’m officially out for 30 years and I doubt there’s anyone in who would purport to “know” me (except for the ex-in-law) but I like my life and value the work I do…I have no intention of sacrificing that to SCN. Ultimately, I’m not sure adding our story would make a difference from a television standpoint, but I do believe it should be part of the body of evidence for prosecution.
My own decision not to come forward has long been a difficult one. It makes it all the more amazing to me when people like Mike, Gary, Karen, Mary, Saina and others do share their testimony.
Thank you all for standing up. I am so proud of you all and so grateful to you.
#1 son, I feel your story lurking between the lines. I am intrigued. I hope to hear it sometime soon.
TashaJ22 – I think the tone has gotten better on the site over the last few months.
I’m not sure which site you are talking about – I assume not this one, as Mike Rinder’s blog has always been good. However, today I was browsing a different popular site and it was uncomfortable to see the usual mean-spirited remarks, argumentative back-and-forths, outright name-calling of people being discussed, unthoughtful and derogatory comments, slurs and pile-ons about non-favored people and assorted other comments that were at best mildly annoying and at worst disturbing and time wasting. I’m all for freedom of speech, but it would be nice if people would only post something worth saying. It’s unfortunate to have to slog through all that stuff in order to uncover the good info and stories there, so I usually pass on that board. (I’m purposely not naming it, so please don’t speculate) Everyone’s experience is their own, and perhaps others have more tolerance or don’t mind the dialogue there. This is just my personal opinion.
It’s a sad fact of the internet that open forums – centered around any topic whatsover – sooner or later experience “flame wars” or one sort or another: name-calling, recriminations and the like. I’ve seen this happen on seemingly non-controversial forums like physical fitness, music appreciation, nutrition and diet, etc. I think it’s unavoidable in an open and democratic process where ideas are shared freely.
Mike’s site is remarkable free of flame wars and recriminations – but I have seen it here at times.
I’ve become fairly adept at skimming through the unpleasant comments to glean the gems of sound information an well-thought-out commentary. Had I let myself get bummed out by the negatives and stayed away, I would have missed some very informative and perceptive commentary.
Thank you bixntram, you have helped to remind me that I need to try to keep this in perspective and not let it bother me so much. This is a problem I’ve always had, online and in real life. I expect people to be ethical, kind, and considerate of others, and feel disappointed when they are not. But the reality is, not everyone is like that, and I have to learn to accept that I can’t expect anyone to act as I want them to, I can only control what I do and say.
Thanks for the friendly advice, sending best wishes for a good day! 🙂
A day late, but same to you Tasha. Beautiful day here in central New England – and not a scientologist in site!
Well spoken, TashaJ22.
Positive feedback is always welcome! 🙂 I appreciate your taking time to acknowledge my comment. (I think your avatar is super-cute too.)
Wow. I changed my name so no one would confuse me with another poster. No speculation needed.
Glad you found a place you enjoy.
Just to clarify, I was referring to this site. There seems to be a lot less piling on and more respect. Maybe also due to a couple of posters being invited to leave, who were clearly instigating unproductive debate.
Terra Cognita, a good article as usual. Happy Saturday everyone 🙂
It only took me twenty seven years, six months, seven days, three hours, eight minutes and ten seconds to get out of Scientology and reach acceptance.
George – You better confirm that with your e-meter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(joke!)
I always thought you continued your scn investigations from an intellectual point of view. Don’t know if you’re still going to publish your findings about the occult roots of the OT levels. Maybe Mr. Crowley and Madame Blavatsky should be given their due credit.
Richard,
True that! Crowley, in magick in theory and practice, just about covered all that Hubbard published. Hubbard organized things far better and made it less obscure, but he did walk in Crowley’s steps.
Hi Jim – Myself and others have mentioned before that Occultism is not necessarily evil, just a belief in supernatural agencies. I think Hubbard’s participation in Thelema with Jack Parsons in 1945 shows that he already had well developed beliefs in disembodied beings, spirits, past lives and so on. He deliberately omitted any such mentions in DMSMH and stopped at “pre natals”. Post WWII America would have rejected such notions and let Dianetics sit on bookstore shelves.
Right on Jim, with Crowley. Hubbard copied most of his work. I looked at Blavatsky because Crowley drew upon her himself. He claimed that Blavatsky had ideas but could not organize them as he could. Hubbard never even mentioned Blavatsky to my knowledge but they are similar in nature. While Crowley supplied the details for Hubbard, Blavatsky provided a framework with Theosophy.
Hi Richard,
Great to hear from you. Yes, I do continue my investigations of Blavatsky and Crowley. My article on Blavatsky and Scientology needs work to get it to the professional level. It turns out that Blavatsky is mostly forgotten in the USA and thus the references are foreign to most people. As time passes, one gets to see how really outdated Hubbard was. Most of his ideas can be traced to the 1890’s. WWII helped Hubbard because the illusions of the Occult had been transformed into science versus nature and science won the battle. Hubbard was one of the last classical Occultists. He really somehow absorbed the essential nature of Blavatsky’s ideas but made them his own in new clothing. The bulk of Hubbard’s science fiction was simply a re-packaging of early Theosophists who later broke from Blavatsky. Hubbard borrowed anecdotes, stories, names and even entire passages in a few cases. Hubbard and Blavatsky shared similar ideas on the nature of the universe and Eastern religion. While Blavatsky converted to Buddhism early on, she later broke off into her own scripture. Both of them were just born too early and could not benefit from the internet and better scholarship. Hubbard was hopelessly confused by Eastern religion and made his biggest single mistake by claiming to be the Buddha. Hubbard’s confusion on spiritualism is so deep, it would take a volume to entangle it. I also suspect that while Hubbard claimed to be breaking from western psychology, he was in really just pushing its limits. Thus he crashed with his e-meter, electricity and the BT’s. He could have cleared all of this up very easily with a good teacher. Too bad he infected so many.
Hi George – I rather expected you would go with a scholarly type presentation. You sometimes mentioned that Blavatsky was difficult reading. I hope your presentation isn’t “too” scholarly. I wouldn’t want to get bogged down in “misunderstoods”. laughter
Of all the other things Hubbard has been called, “classical Occultist” might be the first time I’ve seen that in writing!
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the feedback. So “classical Occultist” is a new handle.
P.S. George – Rereading your comment, with a bit of editing it would be a nifty foreword to your presentation.
“preface” would be the correct word. Cancel my contract as editor. At least I caught my own mistake.
Just a side comment. I’ve studied Buddhism to some extent (I consider myself more that just a “dabbler.”). I have a daily meditation practice (vipassana, aka “mindfulness.”). Nothing weird; just sitting, following the breath, watching ideas arise and pass away, trying to be in the present. Hubbard knew next to nothing about Buddhism. As he did with so much else, he grabbed a few concepts and ideas and pretended he understood them.
When I first started reading about scientology, I was struck by the fact that Hubbard forbade any kind of meditation or contemplative process in the “tech.” That set off a light for me. I knew scientology was a bunch or crap before I started delving into it, but finding this out only reinforced that knowledge.
All the great religions of the world have some form of contemplation or meditation on the Ultimate. It could be vipassana, zen, yoga, contemplative prayer, saying the rosary, Sufi dancing, etc. etc. The fact that scientology has nothing like this only reinforces that it’s not a real fatih in any way, shape or form, but a money-making scam tricked out as a religion.
agree
Congrats on your freedom, you could be such a good guide for those who have just left. You know better than me being an outsider you can help them with coping skills and even group like therapy. That would piss off Lil Davey hearing the free state their horrors to the world. We will bring this cult down sooner or later but let us save the ones who want to be free.
I cycled through denial, anger and bargaining. Around and around. Seeing something ‘off’ or being treated unjustly. I denied that it was Scio. It was the individuals. LRH wouldn’t want that to happen I justified.
I got angry that it was misapplied or I was handled badly. Then I bargained, ‘oh I’m so selfish, look at the S. O. and all they give to help us go free.’ I’ve just got to suck it up. I’m such a shitty person, just suck it up.
Really?
Cherch people take your money, mis-handle you and you’re a shitty person? You can’t get angry? Yep, that was my ‘church.’
I bargained with myself to put up with the awful things that happened because I was a ‘pioneer.’ Oh that was a good one. I got it from an Ethics Officer trying to put what happened to me into perspective. Perspective? Really?
I had a depression after a bad auditing nightmare at FLAG. I couldn’t tell anyone. I smiled fakely, and put one foot in front of the other. I couldn’t leave the cherch. I was out of money. Maybe auditing would handle it. But I no longer wanted auditing.
I’d never been depressed like this before, it was like looking through fog at my family, and pushing through water to just keep going. Luckily I’m stubborn. Part of my depression was my acceptance that the tech had brought me to this broken place. I was lonely and couldn’t tell anyone of my pain.
It would have been ‘talking about my case’ a no-no.
And still I stayed in.
I finally cobbled more money and with a friend leaning on everyone to treat me well, I went back to FLAG and held my ground. Boy that felt good. It turns out you can hold your ground without being a bad person, without being ‘selfish.’
I came out of my depression. I stayed in the cherch, though I could see how horribly I’d been treated. I accepted that it was flawed and kept on hoping that it’d be better at the next step of the bridge.
When my spouse was treated poorly I got to angry and got out.
I don’t know how much this scale of actions applies to getting out, but it is hecka thought provoking.
While we’re at it there was a whole new 5 step program for seeing the tech as other than 100% standard if applied correctly.
I had to go through some steps all over again.
Really? Really. I thought I’d cried and emoted enough just leaving the cherch. Then I had to face my cognitive dissonance about the tech. Thank you Chris Shelton. It went quicker with guidance than it ever would with just me questioning my knee-jerk cherch and tech responses to situations in life.
I’m out of the cherch and I’m out of the tech.
I’m done with my five steps.
Well actually there are more steps. What you do to connect to people who help you, taking care of yourself and your family, catching yourself saying ‘dev’t’ (developed traffic – time wasting actions on your or another’s part) and wondering if you should quit thinking it as well as saying it and a cascade of automaticities that need to be un-automated.
Making the decision to leave the cherch or the tech behind isn’t like being pregnant or not being pregnant or turning a water spigot off.
It’s like a toxic waste dump, secretly buried that can seem fine until it rains and you wonder what that smell is and why you’re getting a headache. I need to keep paying attention to how I handle life and check my judgments at the door and look and listen more than I did before.
Outstanding self reflection. Thanks.
Agreed. My own situation was quite different. I quit just prior to the great mission theft. I had noted how it might be done and knew how it would end. So I simply said, “Im done. Got everything I had wanted but didn’t wish to put up with all the bs any longer. No one missed me until 20 years later when I began receiving letters again. I’d had a life before scio and just picked up where I’d left. That helped. Another thing that helped was the sure knowledge that Standing Order #1 – “All mail addressed to me shall be received by me” was a complete fraud. So the rest didn’t really surprise me. So I took what was working for me, left the rest behind. Sure felt good!
That Peter, is a happy story. Picking up where you left off.
That Standing Order #1 thing cracked me up. I asked about it and was told A) LRH read them and dictated answers and B) A carefully trained staff answered each one with LRH tech.
Cognitive dissonance #1.
Well done on your good leaving.
Spot on. For never-ins, this is what it’s like.
This is an incredible and moving post. Thank you for sharing that
I think different levels or forms of fear permeates every stage.
Beautifully done Terra! Hey, the field of psychology isn’t any more perfect than any other field of study, but Kubler-Ross did observe a series of different stages that people anywhere seem to go through when confronting a loss and she identified them to serve as a useful tool so that people could recognize and learn from the experience without feeling misunderstood, alone or overwhelmed. If they resonate and help, that is good. Because change and grief are complicated and should not be over-simplified.
They of course are not rigid tenets written in stone (that is not how science or academia is supposed to work), but only designed as a helpful guide or template to steer people through the accompanying conflicts of grief to help them understand and process it better.
You were right to point out that the stages can overlap and repeat depending on what is happening. My daughter and I went through a traumatic loss when she was ten years old. A child psychologist gave me some very helpful advice at the time. He said people think that you experience a bad situation only once and then move on, but it is different than that, especially with kids.
Whenever you go through any significant growth or change as a human being, you may go back and revisit or re-experience the original trauma again. The difference is that you are experiencing it with the new skills and progress you have made as a human being. You may repeat those stages, but because you are different, their effect is much different. This happens more frequently with adolescents, because they are changing at a rapid rate. Things need to be re-processed again with new skill sets.
But it made sense from an adult point of view as well. Many losses and traumas I experienced at different times in my life pop up – and often in residual ways that look like the stages of grief. I re-experience them, but as a different person and from a different perspective. The process evolves. When I change, I may need to reprocess my old experiences through fresh eyes.
That advice helped because I think we tend to see stuff like this in a very linear way – process something once then move on. And that is just not how we are built. It gave me the patience to see that my daughter might appear to make several steps forward and then move backward as she reworked all this from a different and more expanded point of reference depending on how she changed and grew as a human being.
Psychology has many flaws. Like any real science it is imperfect and subject to questioning. But one advantage it has in understanding the human condition is that it is willing to evolve. it is not a closed system like the ideology of CoS. The models and paradigms it uses to understand ourselves can adapt to new information.
Those of us on the outside can judge the experience of CoS from the distillation of all that is negative about it, but like anything else, it has a complex set of impacts that we would do well to admit and empathize with for those who have gone through it. It’s effect is not something that can simply be judged and dismissed by those who have not been immersed in it. And if we are smart, we will not dismiss the parallels it may have to our own lives, to those situations where we sometimes are not able to see the forest for the trees, and how changing our minds about something that has given us security or structure is often more difficult than we can admit.
Cecybeans, thank you for your beautiful, touching post.
Your point about non-linearity is a really important one.
So many times we get wrapped up in thinking there’s an almost-magical “corner” to be turned when we are in these kinds of situations — that if we can just get to that point, things will be okay. It’s important to remember that life can be circular (and circuitous) and that we need to be patient with ourselves. Or at least try.
Thanks guys! I like to think of it as helical – kind of like moving up a strand of DNA. Maybe going in a circular route, but always making progress on each level.
Terra, I love this piece as usual very thoughtful.
TC, that was a spectacular post! And it’s only going to get worse for those who don’t leave.
Most people who suffer a major loss blame God. I have yet to find any mention or representation of God in Scientology other than the crosses they splash over everything. I imagine that the grief for scientologists leaving the organization must be deep and confusing indeed.
Ann,
I think it was on the PDC tapes that Ron said something like: ‘You are the most God you will ever know.’ That indeed may be true should you become enlightened. Few got to that point in scientology. They got up to the point of being an uninhibited ego and did not take the next steps of throwing ego away. Tom Cruiser is an example.
Working from that as one of Ron’s stable datums, the Cherch ended up asserting that it was your fault, that you pulled it in, and that you were to blame for everything that went wrong with you. Buying into the guilt trip has done much damage to many members all along.
If the individual is to blame for everything, then there is no God, no good, no redemption, no recourse…………..how sad that the true spirituality of a person is so suppressed. I’m a practicing solitary Wiccan. I see the hand of God in everything that is bright and beautiful in our natural world and in people. If I was a witch, I’d curse DM, but I don’t believe in negative ‘magick’.
Ann,
Sadly what i see and hear of Scientology today is absence of spiritual growth, very different from 50+ years ago. The suppression of a freed spirit was less back then. But with the coming of the SO came the gradient of the iron fist.
Perhaps you could evoke a ‘charm’ (positive magic) for DM to discover the natural world and all of the beauties therein. A paranoic narcissist has nowhere to go but up.
That I CAN do Jim………thanks for the suggestion. I’ve never had a charm/spell fail yet, though DM could very well be the first. Will cast a spell sending positive energy his way regardless.
What I believe Hubbard did was to conflate “responsibility” with “blame”. I am, of course, responsible for my life. If not me, who else? However, some friend who steals from me, for instance, is to blame for the theft. My job is to take responsibility for my own personal situation afterward. I can fall apart, get furiously angry, rant and rave, get depressed, begin being suspicious of all my friends, etc. Or I can take the loss with a grain of salt, look and see what warning signs I might have ignored, work at being more careful with my money or possessions, or realized I had ignored some signs of something wrong and just ignored them. It is MY responsibility to do the work of learning how to live in this world. And blame myself ONLY for those things in which I was complicit. And correct my own thoughts and/or actions.
I agree Peter that we are all the authors of our own life story, but humanity/being human, is not a perfect state and never will be. That does not make us bad, suppressive or criminal unless we choose to be. LRH had a good idea……but like all theories, and given the nature of humanity, it doesn’t really work in the real world. Change comes from within, not from outside pressure.
Yeah, I suppose you can see things that way and try to give reasoning for the way “people” including self, if one wishes to indulge in your feelings of the past compared to the present concerning misadventures with Scientology (and a number of other life experiences too I suppose). Your analysis from the references you quote above Terra was developed and forged from other areas of life and then applied to Scientology, so it’s kind of interesting to note Scientology isn’t the only thing you’ve got to be careful about.
I tend to feel a bit like a veteran cop regarding Scientology now. They are criminals, hiding behind a legal system and thrive on the apathy people generally associate with being involved with long term situations – they carry on best they can, grumble every now and again but more or less do what they are told.
The Church of Scientology is a HUGE rip off! Organisationally they lie through their teeth and it’s sort of like it could be explained as a club of liars with a disciplinary system. Cease lying and they punish you or throw you out and then harass you if want justice.
If I was to example what I now consider the best attitude to adopt in regarding Scientology and in particular its organisational effects, I would look to Leah Remini & Mike Rinder if you wanted a good reference point or a side to pick.
But hey, life can be a real bitch sometimes and with certain bits of it you gotta take it on the chin and stand toe to toe with what ails you. How you get to that point (or maybe not or never), can be analysed till the cows come home if you don’t beat the crap out of it. But hey, best of luck with your journey along with how you handle whatever gives you a hard time.
These stages happen for people who leave Ex/Anti-Scientology, as well.
That’s not true! My wife would spit in your face if you tried to explain to her that’s how she can be analysed because she got on with life away from being an ex-Scientologist. (She thinks my writing comments on this blog is some kind of a hobby). But then again, you’d have me teaching you a life lesson of your very own if you tried pressing your generalities off on her.
Non-belief isn’t someone one can “leave” unless they re-embrace the prior belief. Alanzo, please check back into the insane asylum you left last year.
Lol!! Actually he’s been banned by the insane asylum too.
Your comparison lacks reason. Your continued comparison of a community of concerned people to a high controlling group is laughable. But you have your windmill. Enjoy the ride.
Alanzo! You’re popping up all over these days.
You were going to tell us the story of your break up with sMarty over the Lemberger e-mail debacle, but just never quite got around to it.
After rage-quitting your own blog over the fiasco, you left your followers in the lurch, not knowing what to think or how to react if we were to encounter you again.
And here you are! So, could you please take a few moments and tell us the story that we’re really interested in hearing? I pretty sure you owe it to your followers, don’t you think?
I have never heard of this! I sincerely doubt that people grieve for leaving an ex scientology blog or posting group? Maybe if they are kicked out for abuse or trolling, perhaps, but they can still visit the sites and no one would be the wiser. But if they are upset they can no longer be an abuser or troll, then so what!
You really are the classic troll Allen.
Yo OSA,
For gawds sake you people should be able to do better.
Yo Dave,
We know You cannot so we grant You a special place in our hearts. Another day, another fit thrown, another Ess Pee discovered and another bottle of scotch downed. Have You failed to screw over another person when You had the chance Dave? Bad dog!
There isn’t a group called “ex-scientology” or “anti-scientology”. In contrast, the Church of Scientology IS an established group, with rules & regulations,defined standards, expected behavior, a known hierarchy, charge fees in set amounts for services, etc. But there is no group called “ex-scientology”, there are only individual people who may post comments to share their opinions or stories on any of the many online sites, and perhaps friends who reunite from time to time, but there is no organized anti-scientology group to “leave”. Perhaps you are thinking that if you become a regular poster to an online forum and decide not to comment on that site anymore, then you miss that community?
To read this is liking listening to a battered woman try and talk with her abuser. I will have dinner ready, I am sorry I know you deserve better etc. One of these days someone who has had enough and is thinking suicide is going to knock DM on his ASS and not worry about what they will face after. One can only hope that others stand aside and allow someone to beat the snot of him. Very, very insecure man.
Funny because they never say well this person did not agree with church policy so they decided it was just best that they leave. LOL Nope it’s all scandal, it’s like reading the National Enquirer scandal damn it just scandal !!
I am having trouble seeing how they are bettering the world and making it a better place. DM and Tom are both deeply deranged and in seeing an interview Tom did you can actually see it in his eyes.
Waiting for the day that someone knocks off DM and then kills themselves.
Geezers Cheryl… Don’t quite know how to wrap my thinking gear around your last sentence but if the opportunity ever arises I sure hope I get the chance to shake the person’s hand and buy ’em a beer if they knock off DM. Heroes come in all shapes, sizes & attitudes you know.
Jesus, Cheryl and I Yawnalot!
You are saying what I have been thinking all along but was unwilling to say for fear. of upsetting anyone;
considering who reads this blog and who moderates it. Were I to do such a thing I could not expect to pull it off and remain alive. I have already pretty much been martyred for the Church and now to be martyred against it could be acceptable. What little is left of my family would understand and it appears that some on this blog would understand. I have no real desire to die and have no great feelings against DM, only that it is clear for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics that he be removed from a position where he is able to harm others. If this can be done without killing him, well great, but if not, how many other lives will be destroyed before someone steps forward and does something. I have made no plans and only now said anything about it, but I realize that something needs to be done. I post this knowing that OSA will read it within minutes.
I think DM knows that some people would love to see him dead, which is why he travels in a bullet proof car and has security around him at all times and why he doesn’t make public appearances except for closed ribbon yanking events where the attendees are monitored heavily and can only get in if they are in good standing etc. They are assigned a special card or ticket which cannot be traded to another person and each ticket corresponds to a specific person, It’s one more way the church keeps tabs on its flock.
It’s OK Bill.
I see no reason why a pest exterminator wouldn’t sleep well.
By the way – fuck OSA!
Yes, abusive relationships…romantic, family, jobs, social networks (church included).
Hello Terra, Mike and all the posters:)
When my father died nine years ago, I tried DESPERATELY to make sense of the whirlwind of emotions that were crippling me. The way I was raised (non-scientologist, but extremely conservative ethnic person), talking about my misery was a big no no. Instead I masked my sorrow and extreme self hatred with food, cigarettes and the gaming machines, which culminated in my heart attack at the age of 50 (this year).
I hit rock bottom. Finally. Since June I have lost (almost) 12 kilos and making so many improvements in my life – and counting of all the things I wished I had done when I was younger, but was way to busy being a martyr…
I did come across these stages in my research, but in typical me fashion (at the time), I thought this was garbage. Dismissed this instantly. It’s only now, that I can see some value in it. I never thought about applying it to people in cults. Thankyou for opening my eyes!
Well done on your turn around Maria. Good luck to you, don’t worry about the time, better late than never. An honest smile is priceless, thanks for sharing.
Thank you very much:))
Geesch TC, you may have to make an appearance on the A&E series to earn a declare.
You obviously have Dave too scared to reveal your identity to His millions of followers!!!
Yo Dave,
Grow a pair good buddy. BTW, how did you like last weeks show? Not to worry, things will surely continue to get worse for You.
Hey, I noticed that Your good friend Paul Haggis had an interesting comment on Tony’s blog Dave. Check it out….
“either they hacked personal emails, or Mark “Marty” Rathbun has supplied the church with my personal email communications. There are no other possibilities.”
Now Dave, You would not have paid Marty to do something like that now would You? This will not end well for You Dave. All of us out here on the fringes have these really neat new high powered led flashlights Dave and guess who we are going to shine them on…………….. damn, its got to be really shitty to be be You Dave. Get Your SuMP fired up and tell us about it!
Newcomer – gotta luv you, you always crack me up.
Yeah, Ortega’s letter from Paul Haggis is a worthy read. Slime is slime and Rathbun has it pumping in his veins.
The truth about Rathbun’s turn around and mental implosion will hopefully one day surface. One could speculate Rathbun holds a 5th ace now. If he flipped again and exposed the payoff and the secret deal(s) he has made with the Cof$ & proved endorsement by their lawyers = goodbye Cof$. A deliciously devious but very dangerous scenario for many players. Trust is something foreign to them but its substitute – fear, blackmail & vast amounts of money is the currency in which they deal.
End of speculative dreaming, good night zzzzzzzz.
I don’t think anyone can fake being that big of an arrogant know-best ass. He’s been at it since day one and I don’t see any change in him at all. He varies his targets but always remains self righteous.
You could be more than right there. Time will tell what happens with him, but in the scheme of Scientology he’ll go down with the ship and never really know it.
TC has earned his declare just with his article today; just as I more than earned mine with my reply today. I think that the cult has just been involved in wishful thinking hoping he (or she) will go away. They certainly are doing that in my case; I am still waiting to see my declare or hate website. They are badges of honor, I can only wish that someday the cult will avknowledge my work.
Obviously I don’t know Mr. Rathbun at all but after reading Mr. Haggis’ letter I cannot help but wonder what DM is doing to him. Mr. Haggis seems to indicate that Rathbun is acting strangely and it seems so illogical to me from an outside viewpoint that Rathbun has made such a 180. I can’t help but wonder if DM is holding Rathbun in the Hole or otherwise punishing him. Only bringing him out to defend Scientology or make statements created by DM. There just seems to be something so bizarre about this situation!
Bizarre is right. It doesn’t sit well in a many a mind that bizarre is the goal some set out to achieve. Being a nobody is Rathbun’s worst nightmare, he’d prefer the label of insanity and doing insane things than ever being known as that!
Good blog, Terra Cognita.
Mike this is a really thoughtful application of the 5 stages. Just to tack on to that, when leaving a cult people may cycle through some of these stages more than once. I think its important that people who’ve been disconnected from what was their entire life, that they get compassionate support. You and Leah certainly provide this. Kudos to you both, you’re both doing difficult work.
AlteredConscious, I agree.
Saturday is Terra day, (for now) Terra is not Mike. We live Mike, we love Terra. But they iz different.
Russell Miller’s “Bare Faced Messiah” I’d say is the most important book, to read.
A person has to put L. Ron Hubbard’s life in context.
Then read “Going Clear….” and especially read the Epilogue chapter two or three times. I’ve read it 6 times, and the final final pages of “Going Clear….” if you know the full backstory for Sarge’s comments of what LRH told Sarge, it is just a massive come down to reality, what LRH admitted.
Whatever adult education a person does to wash away the Scientology nonsense, is good.
Live and learn is inevitable.
Good point about ” bare faced…” I left with no grief or emotion other than dismay after reading ” Piece of Blue Sky ” – Too many years of denying the obvious for fear of ethics and the consequences thereof in terms of session time and demand for ransom donations. I feel like I have come thru the surface after too many years underwater- LRH was the con man of the century. When you see his work and motives in the light of truth you don’ t grieve you get pissed off . Yea truth Good job M and L
Well put Mike
Great. <3
From my Heart Thank you Terra. One of your most insightful posts. Much appreciated. Those of us have lived through a thicket of lies & traps set by Ron and now dm. Your last sentence is so enlightening, mainly ” No path is the same for everyone. I really send support & love to you.?
Yes it is certainly different for everyone. The grief is yours and you own it, no one else. Why ? Because we are all human beings and we are all different. A grief therapist will tell you it is perfectly normal for a person to slide back to each stage. This can be true in the loss of a relationship as well. I went through all of these things after the loss of my brother. Those that have been in this crazy cult are also mourning the loss of family members that are still alive.
Well done Terra Cognita
That just makes me very sad is there a X-Scientologist support group anywhere? If any group of people needs some support and unconditional love this is the group that needs it. I am so glad that Mike has this blog where people can go and talk and get some of those feelings out it must be horrible to think that you can’t talk to anybody about anything because of past experience. I hope you can get the word out to people thinking of leaving or that have just left that there is a another world out here and we support you.
Gail – “is there a X-Scientologist support group anywhere?” yeah, this blog, at least for me. I come here to decompress and to chuckle at some of the comments posted by some VERY WITTY people here.
Gail – I joined an X-Scientologist support group in 1983. There was a mass exodus of scn-ists at that time in Los Angeles caused by the greedy increase in prices. I joined one and we listened to channeling tapes and discussed other practices. It was fun and helpful. As was said above, I suppose online support groups are the best bet nowadays. Not everyone got chewed up and spit out by scn. I just left.
I was thinking of getting involved with an ex-Scientologist’s militia group once. Didn’t pan out, we could never decide on how to give orders – it all sounded too much like a Cof$ exec, no matter how much we varied it. It was agreed that getting boozed up was a good substitute, plus we were scared of Anonymous – they are everywhere and Guy Fawkes masks are so creepy!
Up and down this model: Dave’s Mark, Comey of the Cult.
I would add #6, Thankful.
Thankful for more time with friends and family, more time for oneself and for living a life. Thankful to have a job that actually pays well, and thankful for not being pressured to hand it over to Scientology…to now be able to support your children, their medical care, nutrition, education…and so on.
I went from Investigation to Leaving. I don’t think the scale you presented is as all encompassing as people have been lead to believe.
Some might say that you were either not that emotionally invested in the process, or that you are simply overlooking or not identifying the different emotional reactions you may have felt. Most of the people on here I see are pretty familiar with the Anger response, regardless of what they call it. This is not meant to be a cast-in-stone model – just a template so people can identify frequently experienced reactions to loss or trauma. It’s not a dogma – just a helpful tool to unpack experience for a lot of people. Everybody is different, and Kubler-Ross is the first to admit it.
That Cecybeans is a very workable thing to say. It is that kind of logic that holds integrity up to allow further chance of “getting on with it.” That is something Hubbard never saw any value and set betrayal as a operational/tactical tool within his policy. Yet his auditor’s code, code of a Scio etc alluded to that very concept and was inviting but the organisation behind those codes was a cold and vicious predator.
People don’t like to be labelled without their consent and their option to oust out of something without prejudice being hurled back at them is much favoured imo.
Good words Cecybeans tku..
scn is sooo entwined with Evaluation and Telling Ya What To Do and Think and CON-TROL – I’m not surprised to hear voices of protest of anything that smacks of telling us what we might be experiencing.
Yes, some would say that as they conflate science with non-science. That is THE major problem in the field of psychology & philosophy. Neither of which are sciences.
You are lucky then. And the article never said ALL people, in fact it did say the leaving process is different for everyone. Just like quitting drugs or alcohol. Some people just quit and become better people and live better lives….others work a 12 Step Program to get there.
Wynski – that would be your analytical side coming through, yes?
Spike, unfortunately 🙂 I did study logic, physics, etc., in school. and went on to higher science EDU as an adult. I had unraveled the lie of scamology before I was old enough to drink.
That’s cool, Wynski. 🙂
Count yourself as very fortunate, Wynski
I don’t know ’bout that Fightin’ Irish. It was a pretty standard education for the time . Truth be told, the VAST majority of people (maybe >99%) who were introduced to the Church & Hubbard did not become entranced nor believe a word of it. So, most people were fortunate like me. Very few were unfortunate to get deeply involved.