Our weekly installment of wisdom and thought/argument provoking from Terra Cognita.
The Religious Graveyard
Once religions reach a tipping point, they’re hard to close down. After accumulating thousands of well-to-do followers, amassing a fortune in real estate, accruing Midas-like money, and establishing a worldwide presence, religions are damn hard to get rid of. Not only has too much been invested in the physical infrastructure, its faithful have devoted too much of their spiritual lives to let go.
The written word is more resilient than we mere mortals. Organizations can be demolished, its property seized, and all its assets given back to those who were duped. But unless society goes all Fahrenheit 451, it’s nearly impossible to get rid of doctrine. Especially in the digital age when information is disseminated with the push of few keystrokes.
Scientology meets the above criteria. They have the money, they have the real estate, they have the members, and LRH made sure they have the requisite number of written words.
David Miscavige will die sooner or later. L. Ron Hubbard never will. Regardless of the percentage of truth in his books and lectures, he incorporated just enough glue to make his words stick to those in search of betterment—not all people, but enough. Even though more people have left the church than remain, they’ll always be those who believe LRH’s material works if just applied properly.
Russia and Germany lived on after Stalin and Hitler were deposed. Not as the countries they were before the war, but they survived nonetheless. Likewise, Scientology will endure once DM’s gone.
Scientology has banked so much cash and amassed so much real estate that taking apart the organization would be a Herculean task, if not impossible. Undoing Scientology would be akin to dismantling General Motors or the Catholic Church. The court battles alone could take decades.
Stockpiling as much cash and real estate as quickly as he can just might be DM’s strategy for handling future attacks. Saving the planet and its people has taken a back seat to saving the church (if saving Earth ever was a real goal).
But What About All of Scientology’s Crimes and Abuses?
The US government has shown little inclination to go after Scientology. Despite Miscavige’s propaganda, there aren’t more than 10,000 active members in the United States (50 Class V Orgs, times a generous 150 members in each, equals 7,500 US Scientologists). The Justice Department has bigger fish to fry, especially in lieu of all the shenanigans its current administration has added to its pot of issues.
The US boasts a long history of religious freedom. No judge wants to be known as “down on religion.” Most are tolerant of other practices; most are reluctant to challenge a person’s Constitutional right to practice his own faith. Crazier—some would say more dangerous—religions than Scientology have persevered, some for thousands of years.
The largest churches in the world have committed the greatest atrocities: Crusades, Jihads, enslavement of indigenous people, polygamy, pedophilia, acts of terrorism, repression of women, human trafficking, and intolerance of other belief systems. The list goes on and on.
I don’t mean to dismiss Scientology’s crimes, but they pale in comparison to historical examples executed by more mainstream religions—both in number and severity.
I’m not saying Scientology should be given a “get out of jail free card,” or that it be absolved of all guilt and responsibility. I’m just saying that the US tends to look the other way when it comes to abuses committed under the auspices of religion.
What about the IRS?
The Internal Revenue Service famously brought down Al Capone. Might they do the same with Scientology by revoking its exempt status?
First of all “gangsterism” isn’t a religion. Secondly, Scientology already bought off the IRS. And thirdly, even if the IRS did declare Scientology wasn’t a religion and tried to collect on back taxes, the case would take decades to adjudicate. And even if the church lost, chances are they’d only be liable for paying taxes in the future, not retroactively.
Taking down Scientology would be like trying to sumo wrestle a rhinoceros—or like trying to sue a massive tentacled, multi-national corporation. Even when these monstrous companies lose, what they pay in damages is a pittance compared to quarterly revenues. They almost always settle, never admit to wrongdoing, and when the company stock plunges, their CEOs float off into the sunset on the strings of obscene golden parachutes.
Depending on the Internal Revenue Service to topple Scientology is futile. And even if the IRS tried, I’m sure the church has a substantial defense plan already in place to fight them off.
But what about all that Crazy Stuff?
All bibles are swollen with lies, outlandish theories and beliefs, and “allegorical” tales so bizarre that no sane literary agent would ever read beyond the first fourteen lines before tossing it in the reject pile. LRH text is no different.
And yet, human beings continue to believe and practice. And donate. And proselytize. And donate. And hope. And donate some more. And pray to one god or another. And hope for salvation and a better afterlife. And donate more. And eventually turn from ashes to dust.
People will always believe in LRH and Scientology. Some will open up their own versions in one far-off desert or another while others work valiantly to salvage their mother church. E-meter or no e-meter, people will give auditing a try. Some will have huge wins. Some won’t. Some will try involving their friends. Some will post on blogs such as this one.
Cognitive dissonance is a human condition. Might be written into our DNA.
Last Words
What’s the answer to a corrupt church standing guard over an indecent dragon-cache of riches?
Spread as much truth as possible in the face of its lies. Reveal its abuses. Write, post, reply. Film, watch, comment. Read, talk, and spread the word. Sue?
There’s always a chance.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
PS: I must add a note to this as I believe Terra is not giving enough credence to two factors:
- The IRS can administratively change their determination that scientology does not satisfy its criteria for religious organization exemption. To do so would make the future revenue stream dry up, but it would also change the perception of courts that scientology must be afforded 1st Amendment protection to hide their immoral and fraudulent practices
- The church lives in the US., the most litigious society on earth. It has a lot of money. There are a lot of lawyers. Should the IRS change their view, it would become a feeding frenzy to tear flesh off that beast. Even if the IRS doesn’t change their view, there are still a lot of lawyers and $3 billion reasons why they would be interested. It will happen sooner or later. Asthe PR climate changes, it becomes a more and more attractive target. Once that dam bursts, the end will surely be nigh.
This is how the IRS defines a religion for tax exemption:
Distinct legal existence
Recognized creed and form of worship
Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
Formal code of doctrine and discipline
Distinct religious history
Membership not associated with any other church or denomination
Organization of ordained ministers
Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study
Literature of its own
Established places of worship
Regular congregations
Regular religious services
Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young
Schools for the preparation of its members….
The elephant in the room “Recognized creed and form of worship” Who the hell knows! What other “religion” Keeps their Deity so guarded
MR – Quite a lively discussion surrounding Terra’s post. I believe that the CoS will continue and it is unlikely the IRS or other governmental agency will bring about their demise. Personally, I could care less if scientology continues. It is the abuse, lies, and emotional, physical and financial terrorism that must be brought to light and justice done.
The attached is a local story, but proves an individual can have an impact and there are FEDERAL judges willing to do the right thing.
http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2017/03/televangelist_ernest_angley_or.html
Thank you for that link. Back wages AND damages!!
While I’m not sure about how others view Scientology, I’ve had to learn to differentiate the COS from the practice or application of scientology.
To me, freestanding scientology is a compilation of “borrowed” practices, most of which are mainstream now. Without the cans and ritualistic levels.
Oh my goodness Buckeye! You started me down a rabbit hole! I read your link then found a series of articles on that guy – he’s horrid and it sounds SO like Scientology… forced/coerced abortions & vasectomies, sexual abuse covered up, the labor issues, disconnection and financial fleecing of members – I was nauseous when I was done. I’m Christian and it breaks my heart that someone would SO twist the Bible to abuse people in that way and just goes to show how powerful disconnection, limiting contact w/the outside world & info and the typical cult-type practices can truly be! So sad and I’m very happy to read about the conviction and the stories finally getting out there. Thank you for sharing!
Jennyfurr – so glad you found my post interesting and informative. Kudos to you for taking the time to go down that particular “rabbit hole”.
I am of the opinion that the CoS will come to a slow demise. Their revenue stream is drying up with the aging of their member base and lack of new recruits. When we share stories of abuses in any form of organized religion and the victories when they have been brought to justice, we are helping to ensure that not one more person will need to suffer at the hands of this particular kind of evil.
I think there are far too many people putting the words “religion” and “IRS” together. The IRS does not determine what constitutes religion, they only rule on if the organization meets the rules for being non-profit. That said I’m not sure what the point of today’s post was? It sounded defeatist to me. For myself I expect Scientology to end up like Christian Science. Buildings only, no members. And now their churches that have too few members to sustain them are being sold off one by one. Make no mistake, time, age and the Internet spell doom for Scientology.
They determine whether you qualify for RELIGIOUS exemption which is different than educational or other forms of exemption under the tax code.
I think there’s another strong reason the IRS will be disinclined to pull Scientology’s religious status: They are unlikely to want close inspection into why they gave it in the first place. From what I’ve read, it appears a deal was struck involving Scientology legal harassment. That hardly makes the IRS look good and it seems like the kind of review and investigation involved in rescinding the religious designation may open a can of worms they absolutely wouldn’t want.
Iiz, the IRS didn’t grant the CoS religious status.
Technically that is true. Though that statement confuses people unfamiliar with the quirks of law in the US. The IRS granted Scientology exemption as a religious organization based on their criteria for meeting their test of religious org under the tax code. They exemtion serves as a de facto determination of religious status for other government agencies and courts who look to the IRS as the only official designation of what is and isn’t a religion in the US.
WITHIN the US, there is no official designation. Other countries may look to that but nothing of importance in the US. The closest you would get to that in the USA is a SCotUS ruling.
Liz, I think you are right that there is a bureaucratic inertia about undoing what was done. It’s been a long time, and there are interesting questions about how many people are even left at the IRS who were involved, versus how many younger staff there may be who know about Scientology on the internet.
So on the other hand, the IRS might be looking to turn the tables on Scientology if they see that the CofS has become the vulnerable one. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Hi everybody,
Just came across and listened to a tape on youtube that I feel answers a lot of questions about LRH. Like was he a charlatan, copycat or serious researcher?
Even gives some hints about what he was up to before 1950!
Introduction to Dianetics LECTURE L. Ron Hubbard 23rd September
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BGKkc3z0U&t=1933s
Marcel Wenger
Hi Marcel,
I can answer your query without listening to the YouTube video
1. Yes, Ron was a charlatan
2. Yes, Ron copied the work of many others
3. No, Ron was not a serious researcher
It might help to note the YouTube video was posted by ‘Independent Scientology’
No one should have to listen to that windbag
To say that cults and religions are more or less the same you would have to say that the only difference Between Christianity and the S.S. is that one is an older religious movement and the other is newer. A religion is something that may or may not be practiced in a cult-like fashion depending on the dispositions of the individuals involved. A cult can only behave like a cult. ( to those who like to cite the etymology of the word: the word meant something different centuries ago than we use it to mean now, so what, it happens. )
Love your blog.
TC, great food for thought as always!
I think you make a good point about the persistence of religions and schools of thought, but I also think Dianetics and Scientology are particularly dated and faddish, and that the evidence of lack of interest in independent Scientology shows that it doesn’t have much staying power. That lack of persistence may also be the result of some other peculiar odd factors including a tendency for ex members to swing from the one extreme of complete adherence to the other of complete rejection, and perhaps even embarassment about continuing to practice a discredited ideology. I also think the daunting volume and the complexity of the material that Hubbard left behind ironically leaves it likely to end up largely forgotten like the voluminous works of old theologians, because it is too hard to pick up and train outside of an organization promoting it. Modern science also tends to undercut and even disprove Hubbard’s pseudoscientific precepts more than those of traditional religions or beliefs, plus there is the possiblity that new discoveries in something like biofeedback will leave the “tech” in the dust. And there are precedents for relatively small religions and movements, similar in size to Scientology, completely or almost completely vanishing. Scientology is also in some ways more comparable to fraternal orders than churches, and besides the ones that we know that are still hanging on though dwindling, there were many of significant size that used to have halls across the country, that are long gone without a trace, like the Ancient Order of Pyramids.
I agree with Mike’s addenda, that both IRS or tax-related actions (such as a third party challenge to the deduction for services) and lawsuits will start to take a toll on Scientology, undermining legitimacy and airing yet more dirty laundry, though actions may drag out for decades before they start to really take a financial toll on the organization’s assets. I think the CofS also might really get caught out for its abuses, though it might continue to get away with them. You are right that in the end it is a mistake to wait expecting something to happen, and that instead it is important to communicate and be active to bring as soon as possible an end to the abuses.
I also think it is time to consider pushing for some legislative changes that could garner wide support but would restrict high control groups and cults like Scientology, as I’ve written about elsewhere, like extending the statute of limitations for crimes committed when a person was in a communal living environment with the perpetrator, and limiting religious groups’ use of corporate-like legal instruments such as restrictive services and employment contracts.
I like your train of thought. It does however highlight the human condition too. Even without considering the massive impact a volatile and changing environment creates on human endeavor/thought, religious prominence of one belief over another just seems to be an attempt to come to terms trying to explain why we do the shit we do and it seems to force us as groups to teach other groups and individuals how they should live.
Organisational logic and the policing of it are as variable as the number of religious beliefs among the societies of earth. Scientology as a social experiment has already joined the ranks of failed attempts to make sense of life’s motivations, greed & stupidity alone killed it off. With all the wonderment and goodness we are capable of, it seems we just can’t enough of creating problems for ourselves. We are thinking ourselves to extinction.
Heard a wonderful comment on the radio the other day, some musician was questioned about why he took up music etc, the response was, “music is in the book of love isn’t it?” David Bowie once said, the older you get, the more you become the person you’ve always wanted to be. I think he meant you learn to appreciate the things you like, rather than striving to be someone or something you’re not.
I disagree that with trying to understand the human experience that the answers to questions of how to survive more harmoniously are found in analyzing the past, it’s in the brief moments of sharing the artistic appreciations and what motivates us to love things. (That’s something Hubbard refused to look at or write into his tech, it’s the EP of many things and is a better explanation of life’s goals than always striving for impossible & fictitious OT abilities and such dribble).
The handling of criminals and such should be seen as just taking out the trash!
Have a pleasant day PeaceMaker.
PeaceMaker: All good points. Scientology is dated, but aren’t most all religions? And yet they persist–many in lieu of hundreds, if not thousands of years of abuse. It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
Nice provocative post TC. I don’t think there’s any one thing that’s going to “topple Scientology” and cause this so-called “church” to implode. However, I do believe that the daily drips of information detailing the horrendous abuses that are occurring will continue to grow and will ultimately cause the POWER of the “church” to collapse. I’ll concede that perhaps I might be a bit delusional in my optimism (I’ve only been passionate about this topic for a few months so my level of knowledge is extremely limited compared to most people here), but I believe there is quite a bit of hope that we’re witnessing the final days of the continuation of the massive abuses and ripping apart of families that this “church” engages in.
I agree with the comments in the postscript (I assume they are from Mike). While I believe that the power that this organization currently wields is going to drastically diminish in the very near future thanks to the massive exposure that is occurring, I do believe that if the IRS acts and removes their designation as a religious organization, that would greatly expedite what I believe is the coming implosion of the totalitarian nature of the official Church of Scientology.
The IRS taking away tax exempt status won’t cause it to collapse the next day (the IRS can’t demand “back taxes”). But if they take that exemption away, then that will cause future funds to dry up even more. That can cut drastically into the funds they use for their Fair Game tactics and their litigation threats. It can also serve to chip away at the dishonest illusion of massive expansion they perpetrate on their members if they have less funds to purchase and renovate their empty buildings. Yes, they have a decent reserve built up, but it can’t last forever. On top of that, the “donations” made to them will not likely be as high since the wealthy Scientologists will no longer be able to write them off. Taking away that exemption (for both the “church” and their “donors”) would be a double-edged sword that will slice them both ways. I believe that will eventually (and quickly) bleed them dry.
If the FBI were to barge in and find evidence of human trafficking or gross violations of human rights or other criminal acts, that wouldn’t cause the organization to immediately collapse either. The litigation would take forever, especially in the US legal system. However, that could help provide enough evidence to the IRS that might cause them to act and take away their religious status. And if that is taken away, then courts would likely no longer feel as compelled to be so “hands off” when dealing with this organization.
As for the “Crazy Stuff” that you mentioned? Quite frankly, I don’t care about that at all as long as it doesn’t cause harm to others. I just want the control and manipulation that this organization adversely wields over its members to end (and to end yesterday). Let people believe and practice what they wish, but the abuses, disconnection, Fair Gaming, and the other policies that demand conformity, loyalty, and unquestioning adherence to their power and influence need to cease immediately.
Quite nice i would say Mike
Probably more of legal question, but the revocation of tax exempt status, would probably affect the volunteer status of all the SO members who would then fall under the rules for minimum wage and FICA taxes (at least in the US). Having to actually pay staff, even the lowest rate would put a big dent in the reserve.
Yes, that’s an excellent point Mark.
I checked it Mark. The status of the S.O. Volunteers hinges upon being a religious Org, not a non-profit. Shaliehsabou v. Hebrew Home of Greater Wash. ALSO, clarification from congress to Dept. of Labor, “Persons such as nuns, monks, priests, lay brothers, ministers, deacons, and other members of religious orders who serve pursuant to their religious obligations in schools, hospitals, and other institutions operated by their church or religious order shall not be considered to be ‘employees.’”
These decisions are regarding min wage and taxation by Fed Gov
My views
1- the IRS can take awake the exemption for criminal convictions (it is in their code)and since there is so much evidence around surely some day it will make its way into court and a conviction will occur. hen there of course needs to be the confront will and action to remove that exemption
2- I believe that in the same code retroactivity can occur and I would assume back taxes could be taken.
3- with the growning impetus to introduce Sharia law in communities within the USA and in conjunction with public opinion of the exorbitant mis use of religious status for both financial but also civil mis-behaviour there I hope will be a correction to the 1st Ammendment to read more along the 1st draft of it by James Madison. I believe but have no direct evidence that is was issued in its weak and flawed phrasing due to alteraton by vested church interests of that time to protect their practise of ponerology.
4- the advances in the neuro sciences will lead to techniues which greatlyoutshadow any of the win_glue that some people will experience in scientology and even its independents will let the old bridge go unused and move on to far more useful and efficient mind benefits which will be rather permanent rather than flirting.
All that needs to be done is “pull the plug” and get the truth out about David Miscavige and the horrendous crimes he has been hiding….people are working on that as we speak….
Once Miscavige is in prison locked up – the cult will dry out.
People will leave in droves and a few hard core culties will try to make it go right..
but when Miscavige’s crimes come out – most of those clams will bolt…
DM is in a prison of his OWN making….he’s not out and about “cruising)no pun intended) or strolling his CO$ empire of either Clearwater or Hemet…..he’s safely hidden behind the razor sharp barbed wire walls of his “kingdom” where he rules with an iron fist….and is protected.
Should the “villain” storm the castle (compound) DM will be swiftly and securely removed to his “ship”…where they can float round out in International Waters”…….until he runs out of fuel that is!!
Idle Morgue: You may be right about pulling the plug on Miscavige. This may be all it takes.
On the other hand, I can imagine someone stepping in and assuming leadership, confessing to the church’s abuses, promising to make things better, and granting amnesty to everyone who was ever declared.
Terra Cognita, I love all your posts and your bravery. However, I completely disagree with your article today.
If you feel like rolling over and capitulating to what you think are overwhelming odds, then I am sorry to say I am not in your camp.
Did Winston Churchill and all the glorious warriors in World War 2 give up when Nazi Germany had conquered all of continental Europe?
Didn’t other “religions” dry up and eventually die? (Ancient Greek, Roman, and Egyptian religions all died, and are now viewed as mythology, despite being very real to the practitioners at the time.)
There is no such thing as a hopeless cause.
Remember, our cause is Good, our cause is Right, and our cause will Triumph. All our little voices, together, will send this cult, its founder, and its current leaders into the eternal shame of history that they so richly deserve.
Let me put it another way: I don’t know about you, but I would never, ever trade my position for the one that Miscavige is in right now. Would you? The guy is doomed, and his name will be mud forever. I wouldn’t trade my lowly life for that of Tom Cruise, John Travolta, or Bart Simpson either!
WhatAreYourCrimes: I get your points. We shouldn’t roll over and capitulate no matter the odds.
You’re right. Lots of other religions have died. For some reason, though, lots have survived.
At any rate, I’m with you. Our cause is Good! And DM is definitely doomed.
Many religions have “reformatted”. I remember the Lutheran church I attended for years. One year there was a big Hub Bub about how “things were going to change”, and sure enough the prayer responses and ways of the church service changed…..I no longer felt like I WANTED to belong to what “the church officials” declared would be “the new way”, it no longer felt like the religious order I so loved…..so I opted OUT.
Locally a new church is being constructed as the “church officials” stated the former church was in need of too many repairs (it’s only 30 years old) and they “need” a bigger church. So after a few years of haggling, a new church is being built.
NEVER got to see a blue print of the church…..NEVER got to say “yes or no” I approve or disapprove of building a new church….BUT the “church leader” sent letters to all the parishioners TELLING them that a form would be arriving soon in their mail boxes “requesting” that you sign a note promising to contribute “X Amount” of $$$ toward the new church building fund….ON TOP of your weekly or monthly contributions……and if you had difficulty coming up with the money for a particular month…you could OWE it to the church and “pay them later”……now THAT was cojones……I opted OUT of that church too…call me agnostic if you will, that’s how I feel.
A good analysis of Scientology thought reform:
1. Keep the person unaware of what is going on and how she or he is being changed a step at a time. Potential new members are led, step by step, through a behavioral-change program without being aware of the final agenda or full content of the group. The goal may be to make them deployable agents for the leadership, to get them to buy more courses, or get them to make a deeper commitment, depending on the leader’s aim and desires.
2. Control the person’s social and/or physical environment; especially control the person’s time. Through various methods, newer members are kept busy and led to think about the group and its content during as much of their waking time as possible.
3. Systematically create a sense of powerlessness in the person. This is accomplished by getting members away from the normal social support group for a period of time and into an environment where the majority of people are already group members. The members serve as models of the attitudes and behaviors of the group and speak an in-group language.
4. Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person’s former social identity. Manipulation of experiences can be accomplished through various methods of trance induction, including leaders using such techniques as paced speaking patterns, guided imagery, chanting, long prayer sessions or lectures, and lengthy meditation sessions.
5. Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning the group’s ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors. Good behavior, demonstrating an understanding and acceptance of the group’s beliefs, and compliance are rewarded while questioning, expressing doubts or criticizing are met with disapproval, redress and possible rejection. If one expresses a question, he or she is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to be questioning.
6. Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order. The group has a top-down, pyramid structure. The leaders must have verbal ways of never losing.
Dr. Margaret T. Singer
Pretty thought provoking – and sobering post. I’m not sure if the comparisons to other religions should not really be acomparison to other cults. The sheer amount of mind control in Scientology makes it somewhat unique, at least compared to most mainstream religions. When I was a scientologist I really really deeply believed it – after I got out of Scientology I came to understand I was under a very deep, clever and sophisticated level of deception. Growing up as a Christian – i. Do feel duped about that as well ,but not anywhere near to the same degree.
Until I read Steve Hassan’s Combatting Cult Mind Control, I had the wrong idea about what I was subjected to.
I know cult is a word that turns many off but until I looked at Scientology as a cult ( and took a look at the common traits, I was astonished how many cult traits Scientology has) my experience of it never really resolved.
Don_M: Interesting. You make me wonder if other religions, especially at their beginning, didn’t fit the criteria of a cult, too. Many were intended to control the masses. Many dealt harshly with anyone who defied them–much more harshly than what’s allowed today.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many nascent religions met the ten to twelve classic characteristics of a cult.
I’m sorry but I will go against the tide. You have a beautiful agreement that scientology is a scam and Hubbard a fraud. I don’t share, and I’m not a kool aid drinker. When I was on the church I was with the idea that Miscavige was a traitor, an SP, and I had to withold it. It was painful. And It was too much and I left.
But I regret scientology as it was before Miscavige take over.
One could really speak about his case without eval or inval. I learned to listen and help. There is none I know now who can actually listen, understand, acknowledge like I learned to do with auditor training. I have truly helped so many people, and I was also listened to and understood. The magic of going earlier similar on a an upset and to see the charge dissapearing and the joy returning..
There is almost no auditor left. In the church they are robotic and mostly the auditor’s code is waived, on the independant field, noboody is ever corrected, so tech is mostly into the hand of people who cannot be improved. The actual scientology has been altered to almost destruction. I grieve for it.
FG, there was a TV show recently about independent Scientology, and on it a number of independents were interviewed. One of them was Trey Lotz, a former Class 8 in the church. Trey stated flat out that he believes the tech will not die. The whole show can be watched on youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZzEd2ChOLg
Lotz is a True Believer. What’s he going to say, other than what others before him from the Manichaeans to the Shakers have said? I also noticed that he still believes in the imaginary past lives that Scientology has implanted as false memories (there might be some real past life phenomenon, but Hubbard did not really address that) as demonstrated in research on hypnosis (see, for instance, Kampmann and Hirvenoja’s work in the 1970s).
Anyway, what I think shows the path to total demise that Scientology is on, is that the independents not only can’t organize in any meaningful way, but they continually bicker and undermine one another, habitually evaluating and invalidating each other, as seen in this quote from Pierre Etherier’s website – which gets into even uglier accusations after this section:
“Rumors that Pierre has trained Trey Lotz to deliver the Ls are also untrue. Pierre did attempt to train Trey Lotz on L11 , Trey committed gross auditing errors , refused correction and never sent a video for evaluation, yet made many unreasonable demands. Trey Lotz never attested nor completed Ls training with Pierre. Trey Lotz is a field auditor, never worked in an advanced organization and has mostly experience auditing the Lower Bridge . It is a well known fact that as a field auditor Trey was forbidden per Church Policy to audit any Upper Level Rundowns and OT Levels. He lacked the discipline and the training to audit under the supervision of a C/S and lacked experience to address the complexity of the Upper Bridge . There is vital information for the Ls in the C/S materials and for an auditor with no experience in the Upper Bridge to deliver the Ls without a C/S is reckless. In addition many of the references related to the Ls are in the Class X , Class XI and Class XII materials and Trey is only Class VIII. When Trey Lotz promotes 40 000 hours on the chair , this means that his experience is overwhelmingly in the Lower Bridge, which is not as complex as the Upper Bridge. L11 was designed by LRH to be delivered in a week , however Trey Lotz was chronically delivering it on numerous occasions in a duration of 4 months. This information is also broadly documented on the internet in various public releases by Trey’s PCs. Additional out tech was present in Trey’s delivery andPierre wish NO association with Trey Lotz.”
PM: “Lotz is a True Believer. What’s he going to say, other than what others before him from the Manichaeans to the Shakers have said?”
Lotz isn’t a true “believer.” It would be more correct to say he’s a true Scientologist, in that he practices core Scientology – where the person is not asked to BELIEVE anything. Scn is a “gnostic faith” (quoting Hubbard from the early ’50s), in which the whole idea of Scn is to achieve direct knowledge or knowingness through experience – not by intellectualizing.
Actually, I would say that YOU are the true believer – but in reverse – since no matter what people say about their experience, you find a way to discredit it. That is a sure sign of a true believer – one who always finds a way to make their beliefs right.
I’m sure you are basically a nice guy, but it really isn’t nice to repeatedly try to convince people that they don’t know what they know – from their personal experience – whether it’s real to you or not.
Trey believes in space aliens. He believes in the entire idea of Xenu and OT3.
That means he believes that space aliens in the body cause peeps to act, think and feel.
By definition, anyone who still sees running BTs as a valid way of understanding the human condition is a true believer.
Even though Ron created OT8 and was still running his own BTs and desired suicide by way of electro shock, a true believer will not address this fact as it counters the belief that Ron knew what he was doing.
Direct knowing or delusion?
You have an uphill climb Marildi to prove that space aliens are real.
Running BTs drove Ron to madness. That is the outcome of his auditing.
No one has ever proved or disproved that “space aliens” do or don’t exit. As far as what is known as “deep space”, can we TRULY be the ONLY humanoid beings in this entire large expanse of universe?
However, as far as “body thetans” go…..LRH was a science fiction author of sorts, so what could you expect from him but….science fiction tales…..
And to add to this fun:
No one has proven nor disproven the Easter Bunny.
Therefore The Easter Bunny may be real?
What disproves BTs in my view is reason, logic and common sense.
The greatest common sense logic against OT 3:
1) no one ever died of pneumonia- lie
2) The first Hawaiian Islands surfaced 5 million years ago.
Mr. Date Locate was off by 70 million years- lie
3) Running BTs never freed Ron. He was a madman at the end. The OT levels will free you- lie
I believe there is life on other planets. I believe there are beings out there in outer space.
I just don’t believe they see my body as a demented prison condo.
There isn’t any need to disprove BT’s. We need only point out they, as a theory, do not fill a knowledge void. BT theory doesn’t provide any kind of service beyond providing ill-gotten revenue for the church of scientology.
L Yash: “However, as far as ‘body thetans’ go…”
You should take the same open-minded approach to that as you do to “space aliens.” Google “spirit attachment” (without the quotes) and you’l get over 34 million results, including many methods of releasing them.
There are religions that believe in the body being “possessed by Evil spirits/demons” and the only way to rid the body of the “attachment” would be through exorcism by a trained religious leader or demonologist. IS the body of that person truly possessed…THEY believe so as when the “exorcism” is completed in most cases the “attachment” is gone.
Marshall Applewhite truly believe that the Earth as we know it was going to be “wiped clean, rejuvenated etc’…he believed the human body is only a vessel and that our spirits move on. He convinced others that they sould abandoned their physical body so their spirits could enter a space craft that was trailing the Hale Bopp Comment….
What you believe is left up to the individual….when certain beliefs are deeply ingrained, it’s nearly impossible to separate someone from what THEY think is true, and what YOU believe is not true….
Sorry, should have read “Hale Bopp Comet……
“Scn is a “gnostic faith” (quoting Hubbard from the early ’50s), in which the whole idea of Scn is to achieve direct knowledge or knowingness through experience – not by intellectualizing.”
Let us ignore that you assert BELIEF is not a part of ‘core’ scientology while at the same time referring to scientology as a “FAITH”. Your above quote is an artful succession of words that has no meaning.
What is a “gnostic” faith? That implies it is ‘mystical’ and ‘mystical’ means obscure, difficult to understand and it suggests supernatural things. Hubbard didn’t explain what he meant by the word, “gnostic”, he just used the word and left his precise meaning up to your very own personal conjecture.
What is “knowing” and how do you achieve it? According to your quote you achieve it through ‘experiencing’ NOT through “intellectualizing”. Let me illustrate the error of that thinking with a story:
I am waiting in a pub for a person I’ve never met named, “Mr. Brown”. While waiting, I’ve been talking with a delightful gentleman. He is Mr. Brown but I don’t know it. That means I have experienced Mr. Brown but I don’t have knowledge of Mr. Brown. Knowledge requires the intellect to apply meaning to my experience. That is “intellectualizing”.
“Intellectualizing” is a matter of applying meaning to experience in order to arrive at understanding. The alternative to understanding is ACCEPTANCE. Perhaps your special kind ‘knowing’ is really just acceptance. That would explain your distain for “intellectualizing”.
Also the Gnostics wanted to know God. That is what the knowing in gnostic means.
The supreme being can be known. That is what they were striving for.
It is a desperate need to be legitimized by apologists and believers by equating themselves with religions that Ron thought were implants.
Someone recently used Jehova Witnesses to justify Scientology.
On looked down his nose at other religions. Ron considered them control implant mechanisms.
When Scientologists use other religions to lessen the view that Ron and his theories were wacky, it is a desperate attempt to try to seem normal.
Gnostics wanted to know God. Scientologist want to travel around the universe out of a body and control MEST.
Some Gnostics have attained their goal. Scientology has never attained the stated goals.
Scientologists have established a “direct knowing” in looney land.
A direct knowing of make believe.
Here is a thought:
The highest aspiration that L Ron Hubbard voiced for us regarding being free is when he would say things like (paraphrase),” I would like to have repose in the milky way or some distant star but I have to save the world first.”
Think about that. What is the difference between that and angels playing a harp on some cloud? At least they had an instrument to play with.
Ron is just having repose on some distant star. How boring is that?
It’s like he is aspiring to be a cosmic vagrant. That was freedom to Ron.
Ron was a very ignorant man regarding spiritual matters. That was not his fault. It was just his evolutionary development.
He did not have much spiritual intelligence.
“The supreme being can be known”. I’m not on board with that.
God is a concept, an idea, a thought. That thought may evoke certain meaningful feelings or stir beautiful visions. That is what is called, “knowing God”. It is you perceiving an object. In this case the object has very high status.
On the other hand, consciousness is NOT a thought or a concept. It is the knower of thoughts and concepts. It isn’t you knowing an object, it is you knowing that you ARE. That is absolute knowledge. Everybody without exception possesses that absolute knowledge. That is where knowing and experiencing become one and the same. That is marildi’s “knowing without intellectualizing”. It refers to consciousness being self-knowing, self-experiencing. That is what you are.
I believe people are having realizations on the OT levels.
It’s my view that it is impossible to not have realizations when we look within.
The very act of withdrawing our perceptions from the 5 senses and turning them within leads to an awareness of the idea factory inherent within us.
When we perceive the nature of mind, directly, the mind becomes understood. Life becomes understood because all perception is rooted in an idea.
Looking within we find answers. The OT levels will only take you so far.
BUT……….
If the mind always has the pleasure moment of blowing charge with running BTs, then the mind becomes addicted to looking for BTs to find answers. That’s where people get into trouble.
Look what happened to Ron.
It’s my view that Ron could have created another story and people will still be blowing charge.
If he created the Intergalactic Evil Cactus Implant and assigned the same story of pain and suffering to be shed, people will blow charge and swear to the truth that Cactus were brought here by Marcab Gardeners.
The problem with blowing charge with falsehoods is that we are left with delusional cause.
And delusional cause is not truth. Delusional cause is ignorance. And finding spiritual freedom requires finding the truth, not make believe.
BTW, I would just like to blow the horn for the ancient Rishis of India and those wise people in ancient Vedic cultures.
Our word knowlege and the Greek gnosis both come from the Sanskrit word Jnana.
It is pronounced Neeyana.
So even our words for directly perceiving something comes from the ancient yogis.
It is from them that we have the legacy, goals, practices, procedures and techniques of liberation.
You can blow charge by projecting your own thoughts into the story of BTs and resolving GPSes.
By setting up the dichotomy of polarized cosmic warfare within ourselves, peopled with Ron’s Sci Fi characters, we assign our pain and limitation to these characters; thus giving them “reality.”
There is nothing that we are experiencing or perceiving that we are not actively creating in this present moment.
He truth of the matter is that we are mocking up everything.
Ron never got to that point.
His spiritual intelligence, or lack of it, set him on a course of blaming outside influences for self created states of being.
And in that regard, OT3 is not the road to total cause.
Why?
Because it is disempowerment. It assigns “other cause” to self cause.
By definition that is ignorance of exact time, place, form and event; untruth.
Indies in the field are making a living running this. I do not expect them to see what I mean. That would be the end of their livelihood.
Correction: GPMs
Gnostic with a small “g” (gnostic) doesn’t necessarily relate to Gnosticism (with a capital). The word “gnostic” is based on the word “gnosis” which means “immediate knowledge of spiritual truth.”
In other words, gnostic has to do with direct knowledge rather than knowledge that has been learned from another or others and is accepted on faith alone – which is the primary meaning of belief. Faith, on the other hand, in the sense of gnosis is a matter of certitude resulting from personal experience rather than accepted belief.
What in the world are you talking about???
Yes that is true Marildi.
But Ron’s BT body condo is nothing like the information about possession.
There is not one sage who speaks about this delusional OT3 madness. Not one.
There are cases however of possession. But it has no relation to Ron’s make believe.
And sighting the knowledge of possession from other schools of thought does not support the crazy OT theory.
To assign everyone as possessed by thousands of beings is nuts, insane, whacky, Effed up.
And remember, I drove Ron insane.
Do you know why?
Because the BT theory blames an outside source for our own thoughts and projections.
There are reasons People die of cancer running this shit.
I hope you give this deep thought Marildi.
I sense you are truly a seeker. As one seeker to another; the BT stuff is BS. Please give it some thought.
I’ve already given it thought, Brian. The OT III story could be myth – or it might even be false. And yet many people have had meaningful gains from OT III. It wouldn’t matter what the facts were, if the individual simply adhered to the original principle of Scientology as regards not accepting anything on mere belief.
Actually, it isn’t uncommon that people who did OT III – and had great gains – did not accept the story itself as literally true. Marty stated this was the case for him in one of his books.
On the other hand, there are individuals who claim to know from recall that the OT III story is true. One person, who had not yet done OT III, was on one of the L’s and ran an incident with Xenu in it, and even told the auditor his name. Later, when she did OT III was she found out that was the same incident.
I do know about the criticism that the volcanos could not have been where LRH said they were 75 million years ago, but someone wrote a blog comment one time about this and explained how the findings of geologists could be off by that much. I looked it up just now in Wikipedia and found the following under “radiocarbon dating method” – which explains why dating in vocanic areas can be inaccurate:
“The rate of creation of carbon-14 appears to be roughly constant, as cross-checks of carbon-14 dating with other dating methods show it gives consistent results. However, local eruptions of volcanoes or other events that give off large amounts of carbon dioxide can reduce local concentrations of carbon-14 and give inaccurate dates.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating#Radiocarbon_dating_method
So I dunno…
In any case, as I keep saying, the most important thing about the tech is whether or not it works.
Marildi, Roger and Brian have already provided pretty good responses, so I am going to try to add a few things as briefly as I can.
Hubbard’s claim Gnostic (he used the upper case) is one of his typically superficial or even disingenuous attempts – though it might have been somewhat more true in the 1950s, before he layered on decided non-gnostic trappings. Like most things Hubbard, it comes out pseudo, as in pseudo-gnostic.
Gnosticism is about attaining direct knowledge. Hubbard’s pseudo-Gnosticism is mediated and directed, and about pretending knowledge of the mechanics, not attaining knowledge of the transcendant (or irrational knowledge – see, for instance, Clasquin, 1993, who rejects Scientology as gnostic).
Lotz is a believer because, as others have pointed out, he believes in specific things, though there could also be gnostic elements to his practice. And in particular, as I pointed out, he believes in Hubbard’s misguided past life construct, which is scientifically falsifiable.
I hold theories that are constantly changing, not beliefs. There are a number of things along those lines that could be discussed, but you don’t seem to have broader knowledge of the subject, or much interest in investigating on your own and reading beyond Hubbard. I don’t see you weighing in, for instance, in recent discussions about Hubbard’s sources and the direction of his followers, where I’ve wondered about whether independent Scientology can shed Hubbard’s egoistic and utilitarian precepts, something I will certainly not claim any belief or certainty about.
Brian said some nice words about your sincerity. I’m perhaps just sort of playing the Zen stick wielding bad cop to him, hoping that the right jolt might help you stir from the Hubbard-induced somnolence. Well, more than that, I’m trying to ensure that your pro-Scientology ramblings on a site that is principally about exposing the abuses of the CofS and providing the information that they try to hide, don’t go unchallenged, particularly for the benefit of visitors who might be reading. I’m guessing that you come here because the independent Scientology websites are practically an electronic graveyard – on the topic of the original post by TC, and indicative of the poor prospects for Scientology surviving in any meaningful way. I could even express some sympathy about that – but, ironically, Hubbard would consider it low-toned.
I know people like to think the Gnostics, et al, were about attaining “direct knowledge’ but I say they were about relieving their boredom through evoking exotic experiences. Historically that is the predominant pastime of humans, that is, when the primary objective isn’t raw survival. People pursue diversions. Some pursue God others pursue drink.
This is because people don’t have eyes for what is right in front of them. Why would anybody go through all sorts of rigors and discomforts in order to catch a glimpse of “God” if they could see the mystery and wonder on the surface of every thing?
Scientology is about having all sorts of cool, astounding, epic experiences. People hanker for that in a big way obviously. Look at the money they spend on L’s and OT levels. It’s all about getting out of ordinary reality and getting into extraordinary reality. That’s what it has always been about, scientologists and Gnostics alike.
PM: “I’m trying to ensure that your pro-Scientology ramblings on a site that is principally about exposing the abuses of the CofS and providing the information that they try to hide, don’t go unchallenged, particularly for the benefit of visitors who might be reading.”
My pro-Scientology “ramblings” (note that the choice of word here is an example of how you like to sprinkle your posts with snide remarks) are about the tech and aren’t at all in disagreement with the abuses of the CoS.
Posters like yourself who insist upon equating the tech with the church either aren’t trained and don’t know enough about the tech to know better, or their extreme animosity towards the church and LRH makes them want to destroy anything and everything connected. Or possibly they just want to jump on the bandwagon and/or make a name for themselves.
Whichever it is, some posters are at least honest about it and essentially admit that their purpose is to destroy not just the CoS but the tech, as well as anything positive about LRH.
What you’ve apparently failed to notice, or won’t admit, is that I’m not the one who originates the subject of the tech. Virtually all my comments are in response to the posts I see as false data about the tech, and this includes most of the blog posts by Terra Cognita – which come out WEEKLY.
So don’t give me that BS about you “exposing the abuses of the CofS” as the reason you want to ensure my posts “don’t go unchallenged” – as if my comments in any way challenge data about CoS abuses. That is simply the logical fallacy called Straw Man, among the other logical fallacies you commit – which is the reason it’s so tedious trying to have a discussion with you, and why I’m not interested.
Straw Man: “You misrepresented someone’s argument to make it easier to attack. By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone’s argument, it’s much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate. Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenseless by cutting military spending.” https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Clarification for the following (in second paragraph): “…and aren’t at all in disagreement with THE POSTS REGARDING the abuses of the CoS.”
Yes Maridli, I don’t understand why they are so real true believer anti-scientology !
That the church under Miscavige is criminal is obvious. But what do they know about the tech ? All this posters have been scientologists ? Did they ever get auditing ? Did they ever audit ? Or are they just scientology hater ? I’m jew, and I have the same feeling with them than with dedicated antisemite. It’s an absolute of wrongness ! Nothing can be right abot anyone who likes the subject of scientology. Deep absolute hatred !
FG: “I don’t understand why they are so real true believer anti-scientology!”
I think some of them (not all) are true believers in the religion of “science” – meaning the old paradigm of science, in which the fundamental doctrine is that nothing could possibly be true or valid except materiality, i.e. the material world.
Some of the people who have been indoctrinated into the dogma of science did do some Scientology services — but for the purpose of attaining material goals, including having more money as well as super powers that they hoped would make them superior to others in the physical world. Those people were disappointed, of course, and are bitter about it, as that isn’t what core Scn is about – no matter how much the basic materials have been misinterpreted by them. I think they interpreted the materials through their materialistic filters. Anyway, it seems that each of us is on a path that is right for us at this time.
Why am I a true believer in anti-Scientology, as you two call it? Because the philosophy has at its core demonizations of homosexuality and psychiatry. As a gay man who takes psych drugs, how do you expect me to feel, you numpties?
Geeze, Espiando, when are you going to get past your pity party because of some words that were written over half a century ago? Have a little more confidence in who you are. No need to be that obsessed.
In any case, those words are not part of core Scientology. But you wouldn’t know that.
“Core” scientology is not to be confused with that part of Hubbard’s body of work we are at liberty to regard as “some words written over half a century ago.”
I hate to go Godwin’s, but, Marildi, do you tell Jews to “get over” the Holocaust? It was seventy years ago, you know. And make no mistake, that’s what Hubbard intended for my tribe. It’s what he wrote. “Eliminate, quietly and without sorrow”. He never abrogated those words. The cult has never abrogated those words. And, yes, those words are at the center of Scientology, or is the Tone Scale just one of those things he wrote over a half century ago and is irrelevant?
Not for your benefit, Espiando, as you obviously have no intention of letting the facts interfere with your apparent pity party, but for the record here is what he said exactly:
“There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale…The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow….It is not necessary to produce a world of Clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society.” (Science of Survival)
It is very clear from the above that by “delete” (one definition of which is “remove”) he specifically meant “quarantining.” And the whole point was that processing (auditing) was the obvious solution.
To compare that to Hitler is taking your rhetoric to whole new extremes of irrationality. You obviously have some sort of an agenda, since there have been – and still are in PT – people who have truly hateful intentions towards homosexuals. My “agenda” is to inject some truth into the falsehoods about the tech that people like you are hell-bent on spreading. What’s your actual agenda, I wonder.
PLease terminate this endless back and forth. It is a waste of time.
Honestly, these quotes are REALLY hard to defend… I don’t know why you try. ANd clearly, Hubbard was not intent on killing people either. They say what they say.
“And clearly, Hubbard was not intent on killing people either. They say what they say.”
Thanks for the duplication, Mike. That was exactly my point.
So what you are saying is there is a “core” Scientology, and apart from that, there is a bunch of other stuff that L Ron Hubbard wrote that should be disregarded? which part is the “core”? Serious question. How is one to determine which is core, and which things LRH said that should be thrown out? Who decides this?
Espi, I tried that line of reason with that person before. No go. Fanatical cult members are reason proof.
I share many of your comments. But I also observed the criminality extant in scio way back in the 70s. In Israel, things will continue, auditors will be trained, pcs will get auditing. But it’s unlikely there will be any kind of expansion. And until the quest for spirituality moves beyond *any* religiosity, Man will not move forward.
Nice, meaty words. Loved today’s post. Thanks!
As a “never in” questions I do have is:
1) WHAT will happen when the current COB leaves his “physical body”…is he to join LRH in …..outer space…waiting for a return to a new body someday and will the grief stricken loyalist have a huge memorial to him or for him?
2) What will happen to all the money might have socked away somewhere, maybe overseas?
3)I As DM’s current most loyal member and closest friend, does anyone THINK that Tom Cruise MIGHT be the next COB?
I can answer #3. No. Tom Cruise has the best job in the world — movie star (well, maybe 2nd best to rock star). And he’s not trading that in for the job of hated cult leader. He’s not cut out for it anyway. A cult leader is a very particular type of personality, with a naturally occurring set of talents and motivations. As kooky as Tom is, he’s just not one of them.
I bet it will be a wash rinse repeat. In say fifty years when all the key players today are gone, there will be another set of people who find value in Hubbard’s work and set about using it for their own lives, for good or ill. In it’s current stat as a Ponzi scheme, DM may just take the money and run (which he should) if he stays and dies intestate there will probably be the same kind of shake up like what happened when Hubbard shuffled of his thetan coil. Shifting loyalties, power grabs arguments on whose version of Scientology will reign. A lot of people have found use in Scientology, A lot of people have been damaged by it and short of nuclear war (even then?) new people will come and fill in the roles of the people there now. But due to the internet and television and legal issues the public can always access in researching Scientology, the numbers will never come close to what they once had, and certainly no where in the neighborhood of the inflated advertising numbers. If it “didn’t have something” to begin with, it wouldn’t be around at all (what it has is opinion) and like other religions, it is here, it is a thought process and a way of ordering ones life. Some one will always find it useful somewhere. People still go to church, temple, mosque, believe in the flat earth theory and watch wrestling on TV.
I hear incog talking and it sounds like weariness… My perverted grandfather is 95, very old very awful and it just never seems to end…Yes, I just compared Scientology to a sexually abusive, bigoted old bastard… Eh. I don’t know. If the shoe fits. There are a lot of situations in life you just wish would go away… or die…already…
Sounds like some members are trying to “build a better mousetraps”…they have started “off shoots” of CO$, so it seems like certain members are not going to let Scientology die without attempting to “fix” what THEY think is wrong or needs correcting or changing.
There are different off shoots of many versions of the “born again Christian Religion” or even the Catholic Church, i.e. Roman Catholic, Polish National Catholic etc……
Seems like certain folks are trying to in their own thought fix what they think is broken, but everyone’s idea of THAT is entirely different. .
The Scientology organization’s greatest fraudulent assertion is that it’s an authentic religious organization. Right now, it’s in the propaganda – meme embedding – phase, where the “wog” public must be conditioned to accept Scientology, automatically, as a genuine religious institution. Why assist the Scientology organization in this?
I can describe Scientology in one word: Fraud!
Mike, I think you are right. Even so, when DM kicks the bucket the lawyers he has under his thumb will be emboldened to begin ripping off everything in sight. And who is going to stop them? Yager? Norman? Ingber? Guillaume? Jenny? Hah!
Confession: I haven’t read the prior responses to this, although I’ve often thought about the subject. I concluded that, unless DM appoints someone his successor (which is probable but not looking good), then someone (cue Marty) might step in to “reassert standard tech”.
For those of us who’ve been through it all, since the ’60s or ’70s, I suspect we’ll see through it and won’t be back. Why? Because we’ve grown up: we’ve realized “infinity” is between each of us and our maker, however we define this. Because we’ve been through excruciating abuse in the name of “total freedom”.
So Scientology might go on. I’m okay with that, as long as it’s not viewed as a religion. It never was and never will be. And for those who want to spend all that money on promises? Well, I bought into it too. No reason others shouldn’t have the chance to be a fool.
Excellent points. I think any idea that the Church of Scientology is suddenly going to collapse is pie in the sky. James Beverly pointed out to me one time that there is still a People’s Temple to this day, even after Guyana. I think you will see (and are seeing) large empty facilities manned by a skeleton crew to keep the lights on and keep the illusion there. I think you will start to see reduced hours, orgs only open certain days and hours. Every time I go by the Portland Org it is empty, with, usually, just one person manning the front desk. It’s a beautiful building, but a ghost town.
In my view, the most effective tactic is to keep speaking out, keep exposing the abuse and fraud. Their recruitment lines have pretty much dried up. They are subsisting on old-time members, particularly the wealthy ones. Those will dry up as well over time.
But Miscavige has the resources to keep the illusion up for a long time.
+1! Outstanding post! And, you’re absolutely right about exposing them, Jefferson. Also, laughing at them is fun to do.
I would LOVE to see a real movie/series about LRH. Maybe by Ryan Murphy?. He’s done with Feud, now he can do *Fraud*! How many years did he elude the law, and live in hiding? Messiah, huh?
Falchuk is doing American Crime Story.s now. I’m thinking crimes committed behind the green velvet curtain of what passes itself off as a religion.
Michael McKean would make a great Hubbard. Michelle Forbes a good Mary Sue. Elizabeth Moss..Sarah Northrup.
Jefferson, I’m going to comment more in a standalone piece that will take a bit to put together. I do agree that there is unlikely to be a sudden collapse, and that neither that nor IRS action can be counted on to bring the abuses to the end – activists need to be vocal, articulate, focused and even organized.
But I want to point out that People’s Temple, and other groups as well, are examples of what I still think essentially qualifies as total organizational collapse – People’s Temple the organization was bankrupted, put into receivership, and legally dissolved. Typically, there are a few remaining diehard members or true believers, and as far as I can tell any that remain are not even formally organized in any way. Also, any remaining adherence will probably die out with the passing of original members recruited during their founding era.
The best precedent I can find for Scientology, is Theosophy – ironically, one of Hubbard’s significant unacknowledged sources. Like Scientology, they never had a mass following but rather managed to be influential because they attracted a lot of thinkers and seekers, including some prominent figures and celebrities. Their membership dropped below 10,000 about a century ago, and yet they still have a few thousand members left, thanks in part to accumulated assets that allow them to continue to operate at a level that they couldn’t maintain if they had to rely just on member contributions.
Good point Peace Maker
Terra Incognito resonated to me and reaffirms a couple of notions I have:
1) A natural state of a human being is to be, and to remain, in a state of “quasi-hypnosis”; that is, running about allowing subjective and or personal decisions being made upon emotional bases as opposed to a strictly factual and eminently logical basis. And following “rules of thought” (dogma) established by someone else’s authority…as the reasonings have already been done.
Decision making this way saves on energy and vast amounts of time. This being because time and energy is something ALL human beings don’t have a goodly supply of.(At least, none of us believes so for ourselves.)
2) It is a vital necessity for an individual to belong to a much larger group, especially a group that leads a person to believe that he or she has been empowered by this membership or collaboration. And notably: loneliness and anomie kills people off. Mutual beliefs, the soundedness vs the craziness thereof, are not deal breakers to most people. A prosperous relationship is more influential than crazy ideas. (Especially if the group “helps” a person by doing all of his thinking for him!)
My Scientology analogy goes like this: The 2nd Amendment affirms the right to bear arms, but NOT ALL arms. Bazookas and machine guns are NOT covered under the 2nd Amendment.
Scientology is the bazooka of religions, and someday I hope the courts recognize it.
Here’s what’s wrong with TR’s moral relativism, i.e, proclaiming. in effect. that scientology is no different from other long-established religions. Yes humans have created atrocities in the name of religion and will no doubt continue to do so. However, the core of faith, of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. etc. is that God is good, God is love, God is truth, expressed in one way or another. The inquisitons, pograms, jihads, etc. are the result of human beings NOT practicing the faith they profess. Is anyone out there going to argue with Christ’s advice to ‘love thy neighbor as thyself?’ Or the passage in the New Testament that talks about “faith, hope and love…and the greatest of these is love, for if I lack that I have nothing.”
Okay, end of sermon. Scientology is not in the same category. In fact it’s not a religion, and when scientologists call it that, it’s just for public consumption. “Religion” was a money-making and tax-avoiding afterthought for Hubbard. To get to the point of what I meant to say here: Scientolgy is based on lies and fiction, not on the essential spiritual truths you’ll find in all the great religious paths. The “church” will be eventually done in by its own dictum to follow “what Ron said” to the letter. Meanwhile, it falls on all of us reading this to do what we can, supporting this blog financially, talking to as many people as will listen about the horror of scientology, writing about it, whatever it takes. Okay, I’m done.
Oops, I meant TC, not TR. Mea culpa.
Well said.
I had a Mea culpa once. But, I dropped it and it broke.
The key difference, to this agnostic, is how dreary Scientology is. Most successful religions have at least a little poetry, a little mysticism, a little sense of wonder somewhere in their system. Something which makes people hold on to their faith even in the face of a thousand strict rules and the abuses / atrocities which inevitably occur. There’s no poetry in Scientology. There’s also no love, as you said. Adds up to a dreary cruelty with all the charm of a moribound beauracracy. No wonder they can’t keep most members, without resorting to threats, for very long.
cs: Dreary, no poetry, and no love. So true.
What do you mean, “no poetry”!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpTUhN__FRk
Thank you, mwesten, for unearthing the missing poetry of scientology!
“I do not sing what I believe, I only deal in fact. If they believe quite otherwise it still will have impact.”!
It may not be up there with Keats or even Charles Bukowski, but I know I’ve written as bad in my teenage dabblings.
Well said in my book
However, the core of faith, of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. etc. is that God is good, God is love, God is truth, expressed in one way or another. The inquisitons, pograms, jihads, etc. are the result of human beings NOT practicing the faith they profess. Is anyone out there going to argue with Christ’s advice to ‘love thy neighbor as thyself?’ Or the passage in the New Testament that talks about “faith, hope and love…and the greatest of these is love, for if I lack that I have nothing.”
Religionists cherry pick all the time. For every fluffy love quote in the Bible or the Koran, there is another one that promotes violence and murder. Just because ISIS kills people doesn’t make them any less Islamic. They are simply doing what their religion requires them to do.
mwestern: I like what you said about cherry picking. So true.
Scientology is like a grab bag of all of the worst aspects of numerous different religions. There’s no mercy, everything is your fault, it is blatantly contradicted by multiple areas of science – I say it is worse than literal seven day creationism. They rip you off and do nothing for charity – your money doesn’t even get you anything most of the time.
TC is quite wrong to say that all religions are equivalent in their acts of evil. First of all, you have some groups that have not killed anyone – the Bahai, for one. Further, most of those acts of evil happened a long time ago. When religions engage in violence today, the response tends to show little deference to religion.
omegapaladin: Certainly all religions are not equivalent in their acts of evil. My point was that during their lifespans, most religions–not all!–have engaged in acts contrary to what we expect from organizations that profess to heal and help.
Scientology as a business is finished. The ‘taking down’ of it is virtually accomplished. No business can survive when its overhead surpasses the revenues from the sales of its products. It is being artificially propped up through donations cleverly sold as “certificates of status” but that can’t last indefinitely.
The long-standing religions have stuck around because the ideas they advance provide a continuing service and they cannot be falsified. Their doctrines are beliefs which, unlike those of scientology, can neither be proved nor disproved. Scientology’s claims can be disproved in practice and in theory. They fall apart when examined logically.
The names, “scientology” and “Ron Hubbard” aren’t good brands by the reckoning of the societies in which they’re placed. Look at the “independents”, the “Free Zoners”, they aren’t setting the world on fire in fact it’s safe to say they’ve flopped. I don’t think scientology or Ron Hubbard have a future beyond being footnotes in history.
It’s nearly dead already. Its “elite” are denied reproductive rights. 25,000 world-wide vs 7 billion. The information age has undone them. If Joseph Smith had tried to pull his shenanigans today the Mormon church would have the same chance the Scn does. 8 million people tried Brand Hubbard and 3/10 ths of a percent still drink it (0.003)
DM is doing a splendid job bringing about an ever shrinking membership.
” The FLDS is still promoting polygamy, multiple “wives” married to one man & he is procreating multiple children. Daniel Kingston has some 12 o 13 wives and has fathered 150 children. The government sits on it’s hands when it comes to branches of FLDS. A current TV series has a “male” with “four wives”, one legal wife with marriage certificate, and 3 spiritual wives, all four women have children by this “husband”. He left Utah so he would not be arrested for bigamy….the Kingston branch is STILL living in Utah and this lifestyle still goes on. The other TV show has children of Daniel Kingston being assisted in ESCAPING this lifestyle while men in the community try to prevent these women from leaving.
The fundamentalist versions of LDS only survive because of the welfare system that rewards “families” for having children they cannot support. At some level this becomes “Breeding for Bucks”. I have no issue with their religious beliefs and practices, until they want my tax dollars to support their lifestyle and choices and the children suffer the choices of the parents. I don’t even see a problem with polygamy, if the adults involved can provide for the family without the help of welfare.
I have never seen information as to whether or not Daniel Kingston’s name is on ANY of his childre’s’ birth certificates. To have him listed as their father would mean he is fully responsible to support them financially. That is why most poly families do NOT list a father’s name on their children’s birth certificates.
When seeing Escaping Polygamy, it was interesting to note that one of Daniel Kingston’s wives and 5 or 6 children were living in a highly substandard apartment…….yet when she “escaped” with several of the younger children, that apartment was “re-habbed” by her “spiritual husband” for ANOTHER wife and his children…….
Utah KNOWS what’s been going on for decades, women more or less forced into a marriage to an older man, their father or even grandfather’s ages and THAT is what is expected of them.
Breeding for Bucks! Now that’s a game show if I ever heard of one.
L Yash. The gov has no power to punish people who aren’t breaking the law. There is no law stating that someone can’t live with 13 women (and have children) and say they are married or get married in a religious ceremony.
It seems life just doesn’t go according to mental plans or aspirations does it?
The over analysis of Scientology is creating a physiological life of its own. Criminality is woven into the fabric of all societies, along with bankers, the ruling elite, wars, armies, police states and all the wonderful rhetoric dished out to appease the masses. In Australia the corruption is just beginning to really surface with the decades old privatization of essential services such as power/energy and water supply. The rip offs don’t end, the game at the top end of town is as ruthless as Miscavige treats religion. But they have the common denominator in that they all have lawyers to mediate the proceedings.
The fight for truth and justice will never end as long as an ounce of sanity remains. I’ve done my share of being an insanity enforcer with live rounds in the magazine – all it created was more misery from my perspective, but not for those pulling the strings, business as usual in their world.
This article is dribble in my opinion. Scientology is a criminal organisation, period! Treat it as such, it’s demise is a work in progress by a competent few… but Scientology has more accomplices in high places than most people realize or would ever dare admit to themselves. Sorrow/apathy is a hell a lot easier to socially accept than to implement vengeance.
Where’s Superman when you need him?
The company has to get company status as it is a company. Simple and True.
So…Scientology Inc?
That’s what it is in Canada: Scientology Inc. No tax exemption. No religious recognition. Just a business, eh.
Now that’s truth in advertising! We are a business! And our goal is to extract every dollar you have…
Great and many accurate statements!
There is opposition in most of life. People have freedom to choose but can make wiser decisions if all FACTS are available! I never knew what Scientology was truly about until the TV series and now this great blog!
Thank you all!!
As Miscavige goes down, the best part will be watching the stuck pigs, on the wrong side of events, contorting into pretzels to prove that what’s his name had absolutely nothing to do with it. Then, Hubbard will be forever in the shadows; like the failed Alinskyite’s subversion and hatred of the Constitution.
Exactly correct, threefeetback. The smartest people are the ones distancing themselves from that sociopathic leader.
TC paints an overly pessimistic picture of the likelihood of this killer cult being held to account for its long history of crimes and human/civil rights abuses, as well as our chances of seeing that it is either fundamentally reformed or completely dismantled. The unstated premise there is that now is the same as then; that nothing fundamental has changed in the way that society perceives and relates to $cn, thus it is destined to continue on as it has in the past.
TC notes that, “Scientology has banked so much cash and amassed so much real estate that taking apart the organization would be a Herculean task, if not impossible.” Yet, far larger and wealthier entities, such as the former Soviet Union, have completely come apart, largely due to their ineffectiveness and oppression of the people who constituted it. Similarly, the Moonies, Hare Krishnas and other cults that emerged contemporaneously with $cn have either vanished completely or been reduced to very marginal forces in society. Even more directly to the point: $cn’s active membership has plunged over the last few decades and, despite all their efforts, continues to follow that straight down and vertical trend line, with no objective reason to believe that it won’t continue to do so until its dwindling spiral smashes into the earth.
$cn is just another mind control cult/criminal fraud organization that has somehow managed to outlive the other cults which emerged around the same point in history as it did. Because it isn’t any more effective in bringing its parishioners to spiritual freedom or in helping them to realize their god-like potential than they were, it is no more likely to survive in the long run either.
What is markedly different now, in contrast to the time in which $cn first grew and developed, is that the cult’s entire history of ineffectiveness, criminal behavior and abhorrent mind control practices have been thoroughly documented and made available to all with an internet connection at the click of a mouse. The once deeply kept secret of Xenu has been exposed as the founder’s laughable sci-fi creation. and right about now, after the premiere of Leah’s series, we may have reached a tipping point in our society in which almost everyone has been inoculated against the spread of this deadly meme disease. The vast majority of U.S. citizens now understand exactly why “friends don’t let friends do $cn,” and will actively seek to keep those that they care about from getting involved with this killer cult to begin with.
So, with very few new members getting jumped into the cult, and many of its current members getting progressively older (and broker), the cult may be able to limp along for a bit longer, spending its vast resources on the promotion of an entirely bogus picture of its expansion, but it’s definitely in a steep decline that there is no objective reason to believe will be reversed. Hastening that end is job #1 for SPs like us and, given the cherch’s ongoing contraction, there’s good reason to believe that the end of the cult as a systematically organized force of evil is in sight!
Whether that end comes next year or will require another decade to achieve can not be accurately predicted, but the fact that the cherch, in the vile and criminal form that it currently exists in, is on its way out is apparent to all and there’s no objective reason to believe that the cult can do anything to reverse that trend.
The cult has long sown the wind with the seeds of its evil, now it’s time for it to reap the whirlwind of its destruction!
Well composed thoughts and you’ve laid out a much better prognosis than Terra’s doom and gloom take on it.
I agree Harpoona Frittata, you said: “but it’s definitely in a steep decline that there is no objective reason to believe will be reversed.” That is spot on.
At best, it’s reputation is the Edsel of religion. Scientology reeks of failure. Miscavige and the general public know this very well. It is only the duped members drinking koolaid that think it is expanding.
As LRH said at the end of his life, “we lost”. And, until I was fully out of the cult I didn’t understand his statement. For 35 years I thought we were making the world a better place. .But now I understand that he was saying he lost because he failed to make everyone his slave.
Thanks be to god that so many of us are out of this mesmerizing cult.
Harpoona, I’m working on an extensive comment that I’ll post on it’s own, but wanted to build on a point that you wrote about Scientology’s assets. I suspect that one of the reasons that they are as large as they are, is that Miscavige and his outside advisors are worried about potential huge liabilities that could clean them out. In particular, I have seen a figure that a billion or a billion and a half of their assets may be money paid in advance for courses not taken, that has not been claimed, mostly because the CofS has made it hard enough that most people have just walked away from it – but, that according to the IRS settlement, Scientology is supposed to refund people. I think that a couple of big lawsuits or legal enforcements, could clean them out, though legal appeals might drag out the actual dissolution of assets.
And Hubbard not only failed to achieve his goals for Scientology and make everyone his slave, or even take over one country, but he failed to find a way to make himself more able or to set himself free from his own demons.
Harpoona: Good analysis. You may me right. Scientology’s ultimate demise might be right around the corner.
Being held accountable for its crimes may be tough. DM may be held accountable, I could see those still within the church, though, trying to convince us that Scientology preaches lover, kindness, and betterment. That the abuses were the acts of a few crazy people and not the majority of good church-going members.
Followers of Islam use this defense in view of acts of terrorism. Blowing people up is not true Islam!
I may have mentioned earlier that I could see someone resting the reins away from DM once he’s too feeble (or has died), promising to make everything right (just the way LRH intended!), doing away with the policy of disconnection, and granting amnesty to all who were declared.
Whatever happens should prove interesting.
Always appreciate your commentary.
Well said Terra. The Empire of the Clams and Imaginary Engrams and Thetans will live on in some other incarnation. Where there is money, there will be someone wanting to get it. In the early days of Dianetics and $cientology, many jumped in to ‘audit’ their way to riches. Those who desired such riches are still around, they just can’t get up a good clientele outside of Corporate CO$.
Can there be another with the elan and hubris of Hubbtard? Sure, they abound on the various ‘religious’ TV channels and they fill niches in all religions. No one with Lron’s patter is going to get a cult going these days. A reincarnated Lron would be laughed off any stage.
But if you look at the membership numbers, such groups prosper for a time and then disappear. $cientology is just one of the fads that is disappearing. For all the real estate and money, they are a paper tiger that can for the most part be ignored.
Look for Laura Decrescendo’s law suit to be the next nail in the public perception coffin. And the Garcia suit is not going away either. Season 2 of $cientology, the Aftermath’ is driving railroad sized spikes into the clam coffin. Being a public $cientologist is the kiss of professional death. When was the last time you saw a ‘proud member of WISE’ placard anywhere?
I expect that the IRS will do nothing about $cientology, unless some real unsavory clam crime comes to light, they will be ignored. They have enough trouble getting funding to keep the agency afloat in their day to day work. Even if the clams lose their tax exemption, it would only cause a 30-40% rise in the cost of ‘courses’. And perhaps minimum wage problems for their staff.
Loss of tax exemption would probably cause further defections from the public ranks. Hastening the spiral around the toilet swirl. $cientology is barely afloat these days. Watch for more layoffs from the Sea bOrg and staff, that is a great sign of the clampocolypse.
“I expect that the IRS will do nothing about $cientology, unless some real unsavory clam crime comes to light, they will be ignored.”
Has Miscavige really covered his tracks perfectly, though? I like to think there’s still a chance of charges being brought for violations of the inurement prohibition.
There were likely many IRS staffers whose toes were TRAMPLED when they forced through their deal, or who had a horrid taste left in their mouth, seeing the criminal/extortionist means by which they “obtained” the exemption. Then to see DM rent out a large public venue and claim victory in such an obnoxious fashion… all it takes is ONE courageous (or angry) person in the right position to get the ball rolling towards an investigation regarding CO$ failing to uphold their end of the bargain! Public sentiment, politics and PR considerations are in a starkly different place (Thank you Leah & Mike for making this possible through Aftermath!) than they were in 1993!
PS – Thanks TI & Mike for getting some great conversation going and since we all get passionate about this subject & TI doesn’t exactly seem defeatist, maybe the stance was an April Fool’s funny to get us all talking?!
There certainly seems to be enough people on this blog who were abused, taken advantage financially and physically and seemingly suffered with disconnection from their family when they opted out.
So many other church leaders have “fallen from grace’ and lost their “empire”, their TV Show etc, and their significant income…..IF the organization is going to implode it’s going to take more time, it may be circling the drain but not going fully down yet….
“And perhaps minimum wage problems for their staff.”
I think minimum wage would be huge. I recently heard estimates of 5000 staff. Using this number times $9 time 40 hours a week (no overtime) and add in the “churches” portion of FICA tax at 6% gives just over $99M. On top of that would be unemployment tax and workman’s comp insurance. That would push it over $100M annually. Considering SO members typically work more than 40 hours a week , then it would move up to time and a half for hours over 40.
This in itself would cause major changes internally. RPF/hole would be an expense too great to be worth it, and anyone subjected to it would have a legal case not defensible for religious reasons. Some of the wages would be recovered by rent from “company” housing and the store, but the staff with real money would have options of living elsewhere and shopping outside the company store.
For a business that size, providing healthcare insurance would also come into play.
“slave” labor and no property tax are really large factors in the budget success of the COS currently.
Mark, anything to do with Scientology seems to be complex, particularly when it has to do with finances.
I think they do have to pay workmen’s comp taxes, and I’ve heard stories of them trying to get as much as possible of employees’ medical expenses paid that way.
When Scientology first lost their tax exemption in 1977, if I understand it right, they simply refused to pay taxes until they made the settlement and new agreement with the IRS in 1993. So typically, they might tie any ruling up with legal actions that could stretch on for decades before it actually had an impact on them, unless somehow quicker enforcement was imposed.
Also, if Scientology loses its religious tax exemption, depending on the circumstances it might still try to claim other types of non-profit statuses such as for a club or association, though those carry greater limits. And since it is such a complex web of corporations, in might retain tax exempt religious status for some of those, or even try to create new entities and claim religious exemption for them, like an incorporated Sea Org (which currently does not exist legally).
Scientology losing its tax exemption is probably just one of a number of enforcements and actions that will need to occur, and that may take time to really have an effect.
Breath of fresh air.The Scientology and LRH bashing sometimes reaches Scientology style levels.
All movements and companies are a bit screwed up.We are human.
I would welcome a more balanced approach on Scientology.
Party line insists it is marvelous puts you on the front line of eternity.
More factually Scientology was a medium effective psychotherapy,definitely not the worst for the most part. Tech has badly gone down over the years but hey once it was in the middle and some cool people were involved.
“The Scientology and LRH bashing sometimes reaches Scientology style levels.”
My experience — only mine — has been contrary to that. Every ex-Scientologist I’ve seen interviewed or whose articles I’ve read has made it a point to stress that the practice of Scientology has been of benefit to most of its members. These critics have repeatedly stated that they have no beef with the “science” of mental health or Scientology tech per se; they only criticize the abuses. They may not reiterate those points every single time they speak, but I think it’s implicit even when the focus of an article or appearance is to highlight the high demand aspects of the cult.
xs, I would say that it was mediocre therapy at best, particularly if you take into account the less obvious downside of the many people for whom it did little or nothing, and factor in the actual harm done to quite a few. That was exactly the main reason that abreactive therapy, which Dianetics is in good part based on, was abandoned – it worked well in a few cases, but got a lot of people mired in ineffective reliving of the past, and even re-traumatized some.
Marty Rathbun said the long-term results didn’t even rise to placebo effect levels.
Revoke IRS status
Continue revealing abuses
AND CONTINUE TO UNMASK L RON HUBBARD DARK SIDE
Jon Atack has a post in Tony’s blog today. In reading it I had a sense that Ron was an SP; a suppressive person.
Ron was also 1.1.
His PR image, his social personality marketed with great flare was made into an uptone super man. We see him smile while on his speed boat, standing in front of Saint Hill looking like the baron of the manor, the Crowley hand on the chin looking all full of kindness and affinity.
Yet, behind all of this marketed benevolence is a man who sought to destroy or kill Paulette Cooper. You know that Ron and the GO would have considered Operation Freakout a success if Paulette died during her harassment.
Our job as critics, Ron’s Satan, is to continue to reveal that knife behind his back while he is smiling and offering help.
He set up an army of believers to destroy his unmasking through legal abuse and violence.
He demonized astral entities, angels; beings without bodies, as evil electronic implants.
He corrupted the legacy of the great sages throughout history
He lied about auditing
He abused his wives
He abused his disciples
He chose DM as the representation of his hatred for anyone who dared question him
He has crimes against humanity and crimes against the Supreme Being
To understand Nazi Germany understand Hitler
The real power in Scientology is our need for experiencially based spirituallity. We are moving away from faith based spirituality into a direct knowing phase.
Ron came at a time where the 60s expoded in interest in direct experience metaphysics.
Scientology promised direct experience as opposed to faith only. This was the goal of the ancient yogic texts of India; TO KNOW TRUTH, TO UNSERSTAND THE SOUL.
That is the reason that Ron acknowledges the Vedas as the true source of Scientology.
Veda means knowing.
We flocked to him because of our culture and our personal need to evolve through understanding.
But Ron did not understand. Nor was his motive all that benevolent.
Ron saw an opportunity to make money. We were ripe for the taking. We had little understanding of things of the spirit and his talented articulations overwhelmed our capacity to see him as is really was. We bought his marketed PR image enforced by fear of punishment.
How to unmock Scientology and Ron? As is it. Meaning, continue to reveal the truth of Ron and Scientology.
Tear down the false images and PR BS.
It’s possible Ron was a sociopath. He never regretted hurting people. Isn’t that a sociopath?
Could it be that all of this SP stuff Ron was warring against was really a projection of who he was…………. AN SP.
Morning everyone!! Have a great weekend! Pray for the demise of this societal pariah.
When Aftermath is on again, tell ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS.
LETS MAKE THIS SO SUCCESSFUL THAT IT MAKES A TON OF MONEY.
ONCE MEDIA FOLKS SEE CASH!…………….. we will continue seeing the unmasking of this crazy assed greedy black arts demon (sociopath) called L Ron Hubbard.
As an experiment, just acknowledge within yourself that we were exposed and influenced by a suppressive person.
Just allow yourself to think that thought and observe your reaction.
When I acknowledge the Commodore as an SP I feel that feeling your supposed to have when spotting the real SP.
There is a sense of unraveling. A sense of A Ha! So that’s why.
When we can dismantle the hypno-dream of Ron’s benevolent messiaship and replace it with the truth we have case gain.
What keeps some people still believing in Ron’s unique messiaship is only an image in our own minds.
He booby trapped your ability to see him for who he was.
Overcome that wrong data by allowing yourself to see with no filters.
See Ron as he is.
Try this though on for size: L Ron Hubbard was the SP he warned us against. Stay with that thought comfortably with your TRs in.
See what happens.
I don’t think you can really accuse LRH of appointing Davey. He had fairly clear successors planned out, and Deviant Miscarriage ignored the and seized power.
The paranoid old crazyman has a laundry list of evil actions (all of the stuff done to Paulette Cooper, just as an example) that are well and truly established, so there’s no need to claim other horrible actions and risk diluting the message.
Who allowed DM to be his intermediary?
Who trusted DM to carry out his violence?
Who listened to DM when needing info about the condition of the church?
Who created the vacuum by not writing up a plan of transition?
The condition for take over was created by Ron.
Ron instructed DM to be violent. DM did not disappoint.
And by Ron not writing up a plan, Ron revealed his real attitude toward Scientology as a world savior. It was BS all along.
He was an older man, made his money and now it’s time to write a book.
If L Ron Hubbard really cared about the future of mankind don’t you think he would have spent his last years securing “mankind’s only hope?”
He had no interest, obviously, for securing the future of mankind because he knew it was a scam. He knew what Scientology was. It was his fast track to power and money.
He attained his goal.
He did not give a shit about the future of mankind. That is why he did not do anything to secure the future of Scientology.
The obviousness of this so apparent. Only a true believer could use twisted logic to justify this.
Ron did not care about the future of this world. He cared about power and money.
Brian. Im not a Scientologist. 4 months ago i knew i didn’t know much about it except from Jenna Ms book. Very interesting all this. .
The true sociopath can NEVER have enough….there will never be enough power, money, personal possessions, food, alcohol, cigarettes. nothing and no one will ever be enough to satisfy all that he demands. Hurting others gives great delight to the sociopath, after all HE controls their daily lives as in where they live, what they wear, what they eat & drink, separating them from loved ones, and emotional and physical abuse to give them more pain only increases the sociopath’s pleasure as he rules with an iron fist…..
What goes around comes around, Karma if you will, with an Army marching around the “walls of Jericho”…those walls are shaking right now, cracks are appearing in the inner sanctum & when push comes to shove, those walls WILL tumble & some will abandon the sinking ship as rats always do….others will fight to the end &.DM will be left holding one oar on a sinking dingy
Brian: Good points. Since LRH preached that we are all responsible for our own condition–and the condition of everything else!–by his own words, he is responsible for DM and the condition of the church.
Exactamundo!!
If I created a vaccine to cure cancer I would make sure that it was readily available to all.
Scientology, as Ron sold it, was more than the cure for cancer. It was the cure for the suffering of the entire world.
The magnitude of Ron’s claim was staggering. No crime, free and happy people.
Yet he did not care to secure a smooth transition of power or instruction for us all?
Only one answer is clear; it was a scam. Ron was a scam.
He obsessed about BTs and wrote a book. He did not care about the future of mankind. Her did not care about the future of Scientology.
Hello….. tap tap…… is this thing on?
Terra, you are right that the IRS isn’t going to take down the CoS.
Why not? Because 1) it cannot declare something NOT a religion.
2) While it can revoke its tax exempt status it CANNOT do so retroactively. Thus it would only apply moving forward and the CoS already has taken most of what it will collect in the USA due to its membership numbers crashing.
But, as far as scamology living on and on, not a real chance of doing so as any type of real entity. In the USA at least. It will die with its current generation.
Wynski, I’m not so sure that if the CofS were ruled to have been in violation of the 1993 agreement with the IRS, from the beginning, that it might not have at least retroactive consequences. I haven’t looked at it in a while, and don’t have time to now . Amongst other things, if someone really wants to go after all of Scientology’s money, they will want to get at the money that the agreement allowed to be transferred from Hubbard’s estate to other protected entities, and so there might well be forces outside the IRS pushing for a dismantling of the agreement and seeking legal judgements to effect it. As others have said, I wouldn’t count on that to be thing that brings down Scientology to the point of ending the abuses, but there will probably be legal cases that will stretch on for years if not decades, and set precedents.
PeaceMaker, for a corp violations can only be sought a few years back from present. There is no going back in time to review. Just as you cannot be prosecuted for a theft you committed in ’93…
Wynski, I didn’t have time to go through the whole IRS agreement, but at least at the end it states:
“H. Finality. This Agreement is final and conclusive except:
1. The matter it relates to may be reopened in the event of fraud, malfeasance, or misrepresentation of material fact; “
Correct Peacemaker. HOWEVER, a sttlement doesn’t override statutory time limitations.
There is no going back
I read a law review articles stating that SCN and money churches like Creflo Dollar can be moved from church to religious non-profit, meaning that they have to file a tax return. That could well lead to loss of tax exemption.
omegapaladin, thanks for that important addition about the IRS and tax exemptions.
I’ve written a bit elsewhere about how Scientology might just get their tax exempt status downgraded, at least initially, but that would have consequences nonetheless. I know more about non-religious non-profits, and though I’ve looked a bit at the requirements and regulations for the religious ones, and a bit of the history of precedents, I wasn’t specifically aware of what you mention. I did find the following article, though I don’t have access to the full text to see the details:
Betz, Gerrit V. “Megachurches and Private Inurement: Are Some Faiths Taxable.” New Eng. L. Rev. 44 (2009): 733.
Your point leads me to conclude that it’s even more likely that the IRS would first downgrade Scientology’s tax exemption. A change in status still within the category, would allow the agency to minimize the initial confrontation, while taking a step that would probably have long-term consequences and lead to further downgrades as Scientology’s finances were exposed including becoming available to parishioners. I also think another likely initial step, would be loss of the special exemption for deductibility of Scientology “fixed donations,” which would put a damper on their revenue and undermine relations with the parishioners.
Also, on the subject of legislative changes that would help rein in high control groups and cults, one of them would be to require the filing of tax returns from all churches bringing in significant amounts of money. While no one wants to put undue burdens on small churches, by the time they are flush with cash it’s really in the public interest to require that they have real accounting systems in place if only to prevent theft and fraud, and at the point that churches are big enough that they would have an extensive accounting system then filing tax reports is not really a burden. One Christian-oriented organization exposing financial abuses and promoting reforms is the Trinity Foundation (trinityfi.org).
TC, your views on this ring true to me.
Until sociopaths are recognized for what they are, they will be free to use religion, government, charitable groups, social movements, political ideology, etc. for their nefarious, destructive, anti-human schemes. Some of their schemes & ideas live on quite awhile, long after the founding sociopath dies.
This is mostly a philosophical question (and I emphatically do NOT believe that any current Scientology front groups are worthwhile organizations), but can good ultimately come out of a charitable group, despite its antecedents?
An example is Best Friends Animal Society, a no-kill shelter in Utah on 3,700 acres with revenue of $91M in 2015. Charity Navigator gives it a rating of 87.2.
It was started by The Process Church of The Final Judgment, “a religious group that flourished in the 1960s and 1970s … as a splinter group from Scientology.”
How much of the original religious belief systems are left in the hierarchy and management of the shelter? No idea. Is it worth supporting because of the tremendous work it now does on behalf of animals? Personally, I’m torn.
TC makes good points however Scientology cannot be compared in its time frame or beliefs to other mainstream religions. Hubbard like Trump is side effect of a phase our civilization is going through. The narcissism and nihilism of Scientology Is already bringing it down. the cult does not have the history or members to keep it going.
I agree with Mike and it would only take one cogent incident to turn the IRS spotlight onto to Scientologys flagrant violations of their agreement with the IRS.
We have yet to see depths of stupidity of Miscavige in his attempts to protect his kingdom of lies.
JUST A TOTALLY BALANCED AND EXCELLENT ANALYSIS… THANK YOU MIKE !
Would that some day CS becomes a true love offering non extortion and reg arm twisting church…
Long ago a fellow and I in an org were agreeing that the money changers need to be tossed out of the temple !
My view exactly, Mike. The Berlin Wall came down in a day. The time was right; it became “unpopular;” a president even (finally) asked to tear it down. It seemed to come down in a day but it took thousands and thousands of cries and screams of ugliness and cruelty and finally massive unpopularity.
Damn! I had two people talk to me about my appearance in Aftermath while standing in a line at Disneyworld! That’s someone who has shown up no where else; it’s not like I have a blog or a tv show. It was shocking! I can only imagine how many times Jeff Hawkins, Aaron Smith-Levin or Mike Rinder get stopped. This church and david miscavige are very unpopular (if not despised) and getting more and more so – if that’s possible.
Berlin wall down in 1 day – very good example!!
– exactly this has to happen with the cult and done by IRS.
Of course it’s possible for them to be dispised more! They’re experts at it…
They always find ways to piss people off even more.
The ‘pissing people off’ gene is woven into their DNA. They just can’t help themselves…
The absolute truth anout this church.
And the ‘fall of the wall” happened as a bureacratic mistake.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/error-that-opened-the-berlin-wall-early-1439797.html
“Ours was an utterly bankrupt system which could no longer be reformed,” he conceded. “As far as I was concerned, it was a case of `Better a painful end than a never-ending pain.’ “
Great post TC, as always. While I share most of your views, I think you’re giving Miscavige and his minions too much credit. They might know how to accumulate some cash, but compared to the Catholic Church or said large corporations, they are but amateurs with regards to what they call safepointing.
Yes they managed to convince the IRS a while back; they manage to get small-town opinion leaders to waffle at their grand opening ceremonies. But beyond that? The world is a hostile place for a group that does not really benefit anyone (puff PR can only go so far), and they don’t know how to mingle and power play with the people who really matter in the US, and especially anywhere else in the world.
Sure, the “philosophy” will probably live on, but the corporation itself is built on very thin ice and I believe they have just been lucky that to this day, none of the big boys really cared enough to take them out. Leah and Mike are doing a wonderful job poking holes, and eventually DM will realise he is quite alone and nobody will come to his rescue once matters are really going downhill.
The Occult has lasted since the time before Pythagoras about 25 centuries ago. Scientology is just the latest copied, inferior, non-functional brand. The Founding
Fathers never imagined this type of religious freedom, even though they were mostly Masons. There will always be a curiosity about para-normal.
My strategy is formulate a plan for an anti-cult center across the street from Flag in Clearwater.
So true. It was from LRH’s interest, then imitation, of Alistair Crowley’s teachings that Dianetics then Scientology was born.
Hi George – You’ve done a lot of research in that area of scn and its roots in the Occult. As you know, I followed all of your commentary on that on Marty’s blog and I agree with your findings.
Have you ever considered setting up a non commentary unmoderated website to express your findings? I’m not trying to put a burden on you – laughter – I don’t know how much effort that would entail. 🙂
Hi Richard,
You bet I have read a lot on Hubbard and the Occult. I have thought about the web site and it may be a reality someday. However, I am now working on some publications which give me discipline in writing and expression. I have read a ton of the 19th century Occult base and Hubbard sprang from it. Thanks for getting me into this. It has been a great adventure. There will be some data coming soon.
GMW
George – You mentioned that you had well over a hundred index cards cross referencing Hubbardism with Crowley, Blavatsky et al. I think it’s unlikely that anyone else will go into that depth.
As long as scn discussion boards exist, discussion about scn and occultism will continue to come up. Maybe if someone sees that discussion somewhere, they’ll be able to refer people to:
georgetalksaboutscientologyoccultism.com
Richard,
Totally cool idea. Totally cool name. Thanks. I’ll work on it!
Great George.
I’d like to see a sort of “Ex Scientologist Reading Room” with the layout of a small Christian Science Reading Room, but with all the critical books about Hubbard and Scientology on shelves to read, and video displays of all of the great ciritical movies, TV shoes and the internet sites, Xenu TV, etc.
Just have it there, and the critical books prominently on display in the window, and have it as a “walk-in” store nearby, manned with a benign neutral “librarian” type person, and even though no Scientologists would dare enter, it’d make a statement all the more.
Have a display:
ALL THESE BOOKS SCIENTOLOGISTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO READ
and display all the regular outsider author books
Have a display:
IF YOU WISH TO DEFECT OUT OF SCIENTOLGY, ADVICE BOOKS FROM EX MEMBERS
and display them all.
Hi Chuck,
Great Ideas. I could actually have a critical view of the entire Scientology Bridge which Miscavige trashed – anti-Christ etc. I was also thinking about internet connections to the blogs on large screens. I also have already placed copies of books critical of Scientology in the Clearwater Public Library down the street. They were very impartial and interested.
Your “Ex-Scientologist Reading Room” idea, conspicuously situated in a scientology high-traffic zone, is a fiendishly amusing one. All the forbidden books, images of Xenu and worst of all, offers to assist those who want to defect out PROMINENTLY displayed! The devil himself couldn’t have come up with a more delightful scenario. Of course security cameras would need to be installed and pepper spray will probably come in handy.
Great new Ides
Idea: a Go Fund Me ongoing account to pay for a store front along Cleveland Street in Clearwater: Beautifully done prominent sign on Windows and Door: Escape from Scientology HERE. The local Ex’s could take turns manning the desk. A large placard in the window announcing that by entering the shop they can get asylum and help.
We grow the fund enough, (and with plugs by the Aftermath shows) we fund a second operation in LA near NY George’s or something.
It’d be fun to do it for awhile.
I detect “Evil Intentions” above. (lol – joke)
“Check your body thetans at the door”…..
No. I let my BTs come with me wherever I go. Oh sure they talk smack to me, but, they know who’s the boss. They’re afraid I’ll leave them somewhere and they won’t be able to find their way back. Seriously, they’re all a bunch of sissies…
That isn’t correct George. The Founding Fathers were far more educated that most people today. They were well aware of the occult and the like. Jefferson, Adams and their peers knew what they were doing. If you study their writings you will find where they talk about the dangers of giving freedom but it being FAR outweighed by the overall benefits.
Also, if you study the philosophy from which this country was “designed” you will see that there was no real choice in the matter.
Thanks, Wynski. I just remember the big picture of Washington in his Mason garb. That is what I remember the most. I think he wore it to a dedication. Is that correct?
This is true. I’m a Mason and this is something most Masons take pride in. The image you’re likely remembering is of Washington performing a cornerstone laying ceremony for the U.S. Capitol in 1793 (or maybe his official Grand Master portrait). See the Wikipedia entry on the cornerstone ceremony.
There’s another. I’ve been a Mason also. I guess I still am. Not much a group person these days.
But in our lodge was one with Washington standing alone like he was posing for an artist.
He had his master symbols on his apron. I love Washington.
Sorry, you already mentioned that picture. But it was nice to describe it.
George, I’m interest to hear of your anti-cult plans. I assume you are taking into account the unfortunate lessons learned from the Lisa McPherson Trust.
As I’ve mentioned in part elsewhere, I’m currently interesting in trying to figure out a way to communicate the basics of Hubbard’s occult sources and parallels in a way that is pointed and effective, but not too sensational. To me, it needs to be understood how malignant principles like egoism and utilitarianism set Scientology apart from other faiths and traditions, and as diametrically opposed to Christianity as Satanism. Being able to do that would both reduce the CofS’ ability to “safepoint” with groups, and gain new allies in confronting Scientology’s abuses. I’ve noticed, by the way, pictures of at least some minimal Christian activity protesting Scientology in Clearwater.
Great idea.
I’m not familiar with the mistakes of the Lisa McPherson Trust.
I Should know before I plunge?
George, I don’t think that the Trust, and particularly not its backer Bob Minton, had fully prepared for the extent that Scientology would go after them.
There’s a fair bit to be found on line, but I would expect that Mark Bunker would be a good resource.
Peacemaker you might want to include a reading of Ponerology http://www.ponerology.com and Fromm’s the Anatomy of Human Destructiveness in your learning if you haven’t already done it.
Terrace Incognito speaks words of wisdom. I have found the greatest satisfaction to be treating Scientology as a learning experience and moving on to investigate the spiritual realm opened by the OT levels
As most OTS quickly realize, one cannot really get rid of all body thetans. If they do not learn to handle these upset beings, they are stuck with them, which is why so many OTS go into a decline or become sick after a few years.
One of the solutions for this is Spiritual Rescue Technology. There may be others.
If you continue to believe that you’re possessed by disembodied space alien spirits, then it’s my unhappy duty to inform you that you’ve reached the true EP of $cn, which is to become as crazy and delusion as Elron was prior to his death; Elron’s completely mad case has become your own!
Too bad the IRS won’t let you “declare” these disembodied space alien “hanger on” body thetans” and financial dependents on your Tax forms since you are supporting them…for decades….
Dying! That was hilarious.
I think of those little space cooties as a beehive. Just leave the little bastards alone and hopefully they don’t start harassing you.
Sarge mentions in an interview with Marty that LRH actually found one of those little cooties by the gate of his Creston property. He wanted Sarge to get rid of it I seem to recall. I didn’t even know they could travel that well. I think I have a couple in my attic….or could be termites.
At least with termites there is a few technologies that work and if you want you can actually see the little shits die! Space cooties is another matter entirely!
Too bad you can’t use these “body thetans space cooties” like poker chips when you play cards……..i.e. …..I raise you two body thetans”…..maybe that would work…hmmm, nahhh….
More like a Space Cootie Casino you mean? Multiple bets taken, spin the wheel, deal the cards etc but the problem with OTs is you can read cards anyway whichever way they face. Yeah, Miscavige would like to market that ability, but he wouldn’t play with anything but other people’s money. BTs are a dime a dozen.
Add to that DM is not possibly not playing with a “full deck”….lose win or draw…he wins $$ no matter what….even at playing :Go Fish”…
It should be noted that Spiritual Rescue Technology is how David St. Lawrence makes his money, so, essentially, he’s pimping himself here by posing as a “solution” to Scientology. Caveat emptor.
I hiked into a caveat once, it was really dark & filled with a lot of emptors.
And, after all, what are we doing in this blog, in programs like Leah’s, on videos and all other means used by hundreds of others who have departed the church? Expose the abuses and crimes disguised by ‘religious activities’.
It will be interesting to know if the majority of ex-scientologists want to get the scientology destroyed? Why bother? We should allow people to choose the believes they want, if they find something in the scientology write ups, let it be.
Scientology organizations and missions are dead, dried up and barely handling 100 people at a time. They will not grow Miscavige or not Miscavige. DM never cared for their survival, in fact he wanted everybody under his thumb. He is so insecure and such a coward that amassing money gives him power, or at least he believes so. It is his life and karma will take care of him.
But we sure are here with the huge task of exposing his crimes and abuses; such as people joining the organizations, getting ripped off, lied and then gotten rid off; speak aloud for the the ones that can not leave, the ones that do not sleep and receive cents an hour for their hard labor, for the destructive practice of disconnection and for the lies of stealing money in the name of religion.
And thank you to ALL that have done so one way or another, thank you to Mike, Leah, Terra Cognita and 100s and 100s of others that join the courageous ones that choose to speak up. Lets keep at it
Silvia, you are correct. I would add:
“A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love, and in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest form of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying—to others and to yourself.” Fyodor Dostoevsk
This is a very sharp double edged sword, and an easy trap to fall for.
The laws about Religious Feedoms were concieved some 100ds years ago. One of the main purpose of it was to stop the the slaughtering and fighting amongst the different sects, that were emerging through the reformation and the catholic church against them.
The only Country on Earth where religion is not aloud in school and politics is “France”. This since 1950. those laws have to be reformed in our civilzation and need to be adapted to our times. but I don’t know of any politician with the Courage of Tackling this Problem.
A soon politicians realize that fighting Scientology will only be possible if they change the laws, they’ll stop fighting it, as all other religions will also loose their rights to the nonsense they are selling.
Scientology is only copying the succesful actions of any other Religion…. Lrh knew what he did, also DM knows it….
“….What’s the answer to a corrupt church standing guard over an indecent dragon-cache of riches?…”
The answer is to follow Keeping Scientology Working, the phrase that says” “…If they are going to quit let them quit fast….”
Answer: Quit fast
The faster the better for you.
Excellent post!