Somewhat buried under the coverage of the demise of Gawker and its greatest hits including publishing the infamous 2004 Freedom Medal of Valor video of Mr. Cruise making an ass of himself,, comes this from the International Business Times (and apparently Us Magazine, though I haven’t bothered to check that).
It’s a strange position to be in for scientology. They deny it’s “not them” keeping Tom away from Suri. Yet, if they are to be taken at at their word, they are throwing Mr. Cruise (they don’t want him referred to any other way — just like Mr. Miscavige and NOT Captain Miscavige) under the bus. He has apparently not denied the repeated stories that he does not see Suri. That would be the obvious thing to do if it not true. He used to file lawsuits over things like this and Bert Fields letters flew to the media outlets. So, the only explanation left is that he doesn’t care about his daughter enough to visit with her? Wow. Good going there footbullet kings….
Here is the statement scientology is reported to have made, defending itself and trashing Mr. Cruise:
The Church of Scientology denied the allegations, telling Us Weekly: “We never comment on individual parishioners’ lives. On the issue of Church religious practices, we do not know who your anonymous sources are, but they got it all wrong. The answer to your question is no.
“Scientologists respect the faith of others, associate with and befriend members of every religion. Scientologists do not cut ties with non-Scientologist friends or family members because they have chosen another religion.
“Given that Scientology is a new religion, Scientologists often have family members and friends who are not Scientologists and who may practice another faith or no faith at all. This causes no conflict for Scientologists.”
This is, as is typical, an interesting and very misleading statement. They parse words like Bill Clinton denying his relationship with Monica Lewinsky.
Let’s start at the beginning:
We never comment on individual parishioners’ lives. Unless of course we have decided they are “SP’s” and we can apply Fair Game to them. Technically, they are no longer “parishioners”, so this is “true.” But all the information we then disclose about them is from when they WERE “parishioners.” They get all sorts of personal information from their parishioners and generally do hold it — until they no longer deem them suitable to be protected by the “priest penitent privilege.”
Scientologists respect the faith of others, associate with and befriend members of every religion. Unless those beliefs are not compatible with scientology. They do not respect the beliefs of ex-scientologists. Or atheists (look up “Godless psychiatrists” in the writings of Hubbard — it appears over and over as the most dismissive condemnation possible). It is technically true there is no proscription against any other faith — they make this a big deal for public relations purposes. Except as one advances in scientology and is indoctrinated into Keeping Scientology Working and then more advanced scientology writings about Jesus Christ being an implant, you discover that every other religion is NOT compatible with scientology and to be a scientologists you CANNOT practice any other religion, or even yoga or anything else. Anything NOT scientology, whether another religion or self-help scheme is categorized by the derogatory term “Other Practices” and at the lower levels is severely frowned upon and discouraged and at the higher levels is specifically forbidden.
Scientologists do not cut ties with non-Scientologist friends or family members because they have chosen another religion. UNLESS THOSE FAMILY MEMBERS ARE EX-SCIENTOLOGISTS. If your other religion is “Not-scientology” it is not only a lie that scientologists do not cut ties with you, it is MANDATORY that any scientologist MUST cut ties. As a scientologist you don’t have to cut ties with your grandparents because they are Presbyterians. That is true. You don’t have to fire employees because they are Buddhists. You are allowed to see a doctor who is a Methodist. But you would be pushing the envelope if they are members of the Westboro Baptist Church, as those fundamentalists are categorized as “Anti-Scientologists” and thus you cannot be connected to them. If you RETURN to Catholicism AFTER converting to scientology, you are definitely persona non grata to scientology and all scientologists must disconnect from you. Your former relationship with scientology trumps your new religion’s status. So, it all depends on whether you choose “another religion” AFTER scientology. And if “another religion” is deemed “Anti-scientology.” And it also depends how deeply you are IN scientology. Scientology deems it a “High Crime” to remain connected to someone who has been designated as no longer in “good standing” with the church. So, this statement also qualifies as “pants on fire.”
Given that Scientology is a new religion, Scientologists often have family members and friends who are not Scientologists and who may practice another faith or no faith at all. This causes no conflict for Scientologists. Again, unless that friend or family member used to be a scientologist. Or they have ever said something negative about scientology. Or they are a “government agent” or a psychiatrist, or a media reporter.
Miscavige thinks he is very clever with these carefully parsed statements sent to the press. He thinks nobody will notice and many media will blithely publish them without comment. And he is correct in some regard. But the truth is that everyone knowledgeable about scientology who sees this knows it is a lie. And that includes existing scientologists. When Tommy Davis infamously went on CNN and outright lied about disconnection and lied directly to Paul Haggis, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. And that led to the New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright (“The Apostate” a wonderful piece if you have never read it) and subsequently to Larry Wright’s book Going Clear which was then the basis for Alex Gibney’s HBO masterpiece of the same name.
You would think he would learn….
But fortunately, humility does not permeate the world of a sociopath. In their mind they cannot ever do anything wrong. So they will never learn from their mistakes and will simply keep repeating the same disasters over and over until finally they are no more.
Is Scientology so fragile? Are they so afraid of destruction that they have to be freaked out about every little connection to someone that might not like them? There is so much control that they can’t even let you come to own conclusions about people. When a person can realize for themselves that they don’t want a connection, it gives them real power. Coerced disconnection isn’t really real, it’s controlled. I have to laugh at the church’s declaration of promoting “free thinkers”. What a joke!
It is bizarre that a man such as Tom Cruise would pass over his beloved daughter. He never talks about it to the press so we don’t really know what his feelings are towards her. Maybe he misses her and would like to see her but he cannot deal with Katie – the SP, who has physical custody of his daughter. He would certainly have to have communication with Katie were he to have a relationship with Suri. Katie is a concerned mom and would demand it. She wouldn’t go through surrogates when it comes to her daughter’s comings and goings. God knows what examples of LRH’s life was fed to Tom and other lies to get him to ultimately exit his daughter’s life. Still, Tom is responsible for his decisions regarding his relationship with his daughter since he has the legal right to talk with her and visit.
The CofS can lie all it wants and will do so, but it isn’t fooling anybody. The CofS still looks very much like it is bad for families. Even with this new foot bullet, one can see that the ultimate result is Cruise not having his little girl in his life, but has the CofS instead.
People are not stupid and have the powers of observation. Something the CofS thinks is a big joke.
Cruise became an idiot and a liar for everything touching the crime cult rules and facts. That’s what a criminal system provokes wxhen it is well fabricated regarding truths and facts!
That’s about it, TC is a grown man and he has chosen to do and not do this. For someone who purported to want a “big family”, his actions and results are a bit weak, but maybe it is just as well. If a cult/religion can’t recruit, it needs to breed. Scientology wants to do neither? So in twenty years…?
I deleted this comment. As a general announcement, comments which are only “Donald Trump is…” or “Hillary Clinton is…” will be deleted because I don’t want threads derailed into shouting across the chasm about whether Donald or Hillary is really the worst. I may violate my own rule sometimes, I know I recently made reference to Bill Clinton’s lying and Trump’s fundraising. But that is because, as Mel Brooks said in History of The World Part II “It’s good to be the King.” It’s a really tiny kingdom, but I am the king….
Gary Johnson!
One can hope your Majesty. 🙂
I am really sorry (or rather NOT), but Scientology’s Disconnection Policy has never been the REAL issue. The real issue is STUPIDITY and lack of personal integrity.
If – when I was still a KSW Scientologists – someone (ANYBODY) would have demanded of me to disconnect from my daughter, I would not only have ignored such demand, but I would have dragged such individual though the floor, and would have probably hit the fuck out of him.
My daughter is a TRILLION times more important than any fucking spiritual salvation REGARLESS, REGARLESS if that “salvation” is actually true. A “salvation” w/out my daughter is no salvation at all, but a living hell. I would die for her a TRILLION times over and over again for eternity if necessary. THAT’S how any parent should love their kids. I am sorry, but there is no other way; not for me.
Tom Cruise is not under any fucking “undue influence”; he is just a selfish human being whose “spiritual future” is more important than his own daughter. Nothing, absolutely nothing should be above our children. Nothing AT ALL.
Disconnection is IMPOSSIBLE if cowardice, selfishness, and low self-respect isn’t part of the scenario. I am sorry if this sound harsh to some, but the ones who decided to disconnect, are just being stupidly cowards. Evil can only operate when there is already an evil seed (dishonesty, selfishness, etc) growing inside an individual. No “evil” person can EVER control those with a kind and honest heart. That’s the truth of the matter. Anything else are just delusions and alterations of the laws of life and livingness.
We are the victims of our OWN bad decisions and actions. The bells tolls for thee. Do not show the “victim” how he/she is being “fooled” and “badly” controlled. Instead, shoe him/her how to recover his self-esteem, self-respect and HONESTY, and with that, all “bad” effects would IMMEDIATELY cease to exist.
I hope none of the parents who have lost children decide they are going to “hit the fuck” out of you. This comment is short-sighted. What if it was your daughter who disconnected from you? You would proclaim her stupid and lacking personal integrity — even if you were the one that indoctrinated her into scientology. Your words are unthinking and unkind.
Mike : “I hope none of the parents who have lost children decide they are going to ‘hit the fuck’ out of you.”
I hope so as well. 🙂
“This comment is short-sighted.What if it was your daughter who disconnected from you? You would proclaim her stupid and lacking personal integrity — even if you were the one that indoctrinated her into scientology.”
YES, Mike; I would think that she was being stupid and lacking Integrity, as ANY realistic parent would do. Does that mean that I would feel distant and unfriendly about her, and would forget about her? Not at all, I assure you. I would do ANYTHING (which most of your posters suffering from Disconnection are not willing to do, and you KNOW this) to help her regain her Integrity, self-respect, and HONESTY towards her family. I would DEFINITELY not see her as a “victim”, but as someone who abandoned her code of honor, and who got into trouble because of her OWN actions, and not because of any stupid leader.
“Your words are unthinking and unkind.”
Only because you never really understood them. But you will sooner or later.
Only because you never really understood them. But you will sooner or later. Arrogant much?
Clearly, you have no children who have disconnected from you.
Yes Mike, my comments might come across as arrogant, but they are true nevertheless. And no, I do not have a disconnected family member, and perhaps I am being a little uncompassionate. But as hard as that might sound to you or anybody here, your family members disconnected from you because of their OWN problems of self-discipline, and not because ANYTHING you did. Even if you “indoctrinated” them into Scn, STILL you are not to blame. They made their own choices based on their own level of ethics.
I am not trying to insult them, and God bless them wherever they are, and my best wishes to them. But a son/daughter who have their personal integrity intact, and who was brought to honor their parents, would never ever go with Disconnection as a solution. My daughter wouldn’t, I am pretty sure of it.
By blaming DM – or ANY other cult leader for that matter – you are assigning wrong source to the situation, and addressing the wrong target. Disconnection is a problem of self-discipline and self-respect. It is isn’t a problem of other-determined “causes”.
The handling would be to increase the ethics level and Integrity level of those who decided to go with the Disconnection “solution”. DM is of no importance to the handling of the Disconnection problem. 10 years should have taught you that.
While in a celeb’s case like Tom Cruise I’d agree that it is mostly himself that is keeping him away from Suri, I think it’s very harsh to blame all those who initiate disconnection. Even in Tom Cruise’s case, there may be things we don’t know about what he has agreed to with Katie Holmes, who seems to (understandably) have taken drastic measures to protect herself and her daughter from CoS influence.
The insistance that there are no victims often traces back to the idea (very popular in scientology) that you have, or can have, complete control over your life. Hint : you don’t, and never will. No one does. Your reactions are those of a person who is now out of the context in which those who obey commands to disconnect from their loved ones are living in.
Put yourself in that context. You are convinced that scientology is the only hope for mankind, that you’ve lived multiple lives and this is just one of them, and that your parental bonds are mostly meaningless. If anything, the integrity, love, and courage you possess will push you to disconnect, however much it might hurt you or your child, because the future of mankind also happens to include that of your child.
Belief, especially when self-doubt is being suppressed like in cult indoctrination, is very powerful. It makes people, even good people, do horrifying things – things they believe are for their loved ones own good. Neither integrity, courage, love or intelligence can protect you against what you might do when you believe – with that terrible certainty cult members acquire – in those ideas you have been indoctrinated into.
“The insistance that there are no victims often traces back to the idea (very popular in scientology) that you have, or can have, complete control over your life. Hint : you don’t, and never will. No one does.”
No offense Kemist, but that’s an apathetic and defeating viewpoint of life which I don’t share and have never had in my life. Of course we can have control over our lives even if we don’t immediately have it. A “victim” isn’t someone who is being the effect of something/someone in life; a victim is an individual who accept defeatism, and who does not fight back.
I have no problem with helping victims, and never had. But I help them not by pitying them, but by helping them regain self-confidence and self-respect. I do not treat them as “victims” EVER. The ONLY one who “benefit” from treating others as victims are the ones who do it. Treat others as victims at your own peril. It may seems to you as an honorable and compassionate act, but I can assure you, that you are not helping them.
“Your reactions are those of a person who is now out of the context in which those who obey commands to disconnect from their loved ones are living in.”
No, my reactions are those of someone who know better than to play the “victim game” that SO many ex-Scientologists LOVE to play. Always assigning wrong source as if DM or any other asshole cult leader had any real power beyond the one that others grant to him.
“Put yourself in that context. You are convinced that scientology is the only hope for mankind, that you’ve lived multiple lives and this is just one of them, and that your parental bonds are mostly meaningless. If anything, the integrity, love, and courage you possess will push you to disconnect, however much it might hurt you or your child, because the future of mankind also happens to include that of your child.”
If others here think as you do, no wonder why I always get zero, zip, nada responses whenever I post a REAL strategy to help those suffering from Disconnection, like using the ONU’s Human Rights Council to file a case against the CofS and to coordinate a big massive protest at key locations, a practice known to have been INCREDIBLE effective at handling Human Rights violations. But ALL I see is a lot of posts complaining about “how bad is all”, but with no REAL actions to do something effective about it. I now know better than to try to help ex Scientologists to recover their lost ones. It just never works.
“If anything, the integrity, love, and courage you possess will push you to disconnect, however much it might hurt you or your child, because the future of mankind also happens to include that of your child.” ? What a strange and wild idea is that , Kemist; strange and wild indeed!!! I am sorry but that’s bs. Get your definitions of “love”, ” courage”, and “Integrity” straight, Kemist. Abandoning our kids for their “sake” is just a very misguided action.
Btw, I do not need to “put myself in that context” as I was a Scientologist for 30 years of my life, and thought that LRH was close to a perfect being. But you know what? Even though I felt that way about him, I STILL protested against anything that I thought was not right. I spent most of my years in Scn in Ethics as I always disagreed so much. And the data I had and the one I operated from (which I thought was the same data LRH operated from), is that Disconnection was used only in the rare case where one was connected to a real SP which is one who doesn’t want ANYONE to get better in life, and who seek only to destroy other people’s lives.
I didn’t know that those cases of family Disconnection was happening. My PTS handlings never included Disconnection as a “solution”, and less so if the antagonistic terminal was a family member. I always guided the PTS person to confront the situation and use good communication and responsibility towards their family members to solve their situation with them.
So your comments are incredible unreal to me. I could never think that way. There is NO EXCUSE to disconnect from a family member just because he/she oppose Scn or ANY other religion. That REGARDLESS if such a “reIigion” can acomplish spiritual salvation. I never agreed with such handlings and always stopped the staff that attempted to do them. And that got me into a LOT of trouble, believe me.
” Belief, especially when self-doubt is being suppressed like in cult indoctrination, is very powerful. It makes people, even good people, do horrifying things – things they believe are for their loved ones own good. Neither integrity, courage, love or intelligence can protect you against what you might do when you believe – with that terrible certainty cult members acquire – in those ideas you have been indoctrinated into.”
Again Kemist, your viewpoints are very unreal to me. Your definitions those terms are strange indeed. REAL love, Integrity, and courage, does not include abandoning your love ones for the sake of the “greatest” good. Your viewpoints on that are even dangerous to yourself. I suggest that you engage in a study of real philosophy and Ethics like the one you can find in Will Duran’s “An History of Philosophy”.
Theta that is a lie about getting zero emails about your plan. I know I sent you one telling you I was down with your plan.
I stand corrected Gary. I did received an e-mail from you and from some other poster the first time I posted my strategy. However, the 2nd time I did, I receive NONE. Besides, one response makes no difference whatsoever in this scenario, w/out attempting to invalidate and belittle your honest efforts and willingness which I DO appreciate.
So out of HUNDREDS of people suffering from Disconnection from their family members, I receive 1-2 responses to my strategy. Don’t you think that’s odd and strange? That was my WHOLE point Gary, which you apparently missed. People complain about how bad it all is, but when the time comes to actually DO something EFFECTIVE about it, then they find all kind of excuses and “logical” reasons why “it can’t be done”, or “it won’t work”, or, or, excuses, excuses, victimhood, victimhSOd.
That’s the sad story of most ex Scientologists; they just play the victim. It is so much easier” to play being the whole effect of something or somebody, than to fight for our rights against all odds and whatever it takes to do so.
I am not a victim; never was, that’s all. I never compromised with my own reality, and that’s why when an asshole very high CMO officer shouted at me and attempted to humiliate me, I almost dragged him through the floor. I shouted him back in a way that he and others got the message not to fuck with me. I routed out of the SO during the next weeks.
I started a fight against all odds to get my org to accept sending out the PC folders or my ex wife (to ITD Mexico), which they refused to send out because they allegedly disagreed with ITD Mexico to charge her mexican citizens rates. The ED of the Org, the bitch Susan Bates wrote to the GI int (or one of those fuckers from Finance at Int level) to get ITD to stop charging those Mexican rates to USA citizens or people from other countries. The Int terminal gave ITD the order to stop.
I then wrote to the then ED Int and petitioned him to change that arbitrary decision. He accepted my petition (for her only) but the Org ED wrote again to the GI Int guy and got my petition approval cancelled.
The Org ED attempted to declare me. All those petitions I did it under her name not mine, as if I was only being a translator. But the Org ED knew that I was the one behind all that. Using some past out-ethics record, she CSWed the Int Justice Chief for my SP declare.
I being a LOT smarter than any Scientologists (am I being too “arrogant”, Mike?), wrote the Int Justice Chief, and explained to him the 3P strategy from the ED. I did accepted all my past behavior, but got him to understand that I had and was taking responsibility for that. He ignored the CSW.
I then petitioned again to the ED Int, and the GI Int (or whatever his post was, but he was an Int guy) with specific data of the per capita rate of my country which is even lower than the one from the USA poorest state. I showed them how silly were the arguments about nor charging Mexican rates, and how no LRH policy was backing up such misguided arguments.I also showed them how the Org was acting very out-ethics in the way they were serving its public, and how they only had ONE auditor to service all the flow, and a VERY lousy one.
My petition (actually “HERS” on their minds) got accepted this time and she went to ITD and her PC folders got sent. She got audited, but ITD was as lousy and incompetent as PR org was. But that’s another story for another day.
But the point is, I risked being declared because her future was a LOT more important to me than my spiritual salvation. I just loved her immensely and still do but as family not 2D. I never thought for a minute in my own interests. I believed that Scn was man’s ONLY route to spiritual salvation, but I was willing to give that up for the person I love. I would die for her ANY time.
So please, dear Mike and any posters here, save your comments about my assertions being “unkind” and “uncompassionate”. My record of having enough balls to defend my rights are there for anybody to inspect. And I even have a few more stories like that of how I opposed high ranking staff because I refused to compromise with my code of honor. I even took my first wife out of auditing lines as she was being very badly audited. I decided to audit her myself w/out any C/S, and just using my OWN judgment. The Org wanted my head, AGAIN. I thought, “if I get declared for ‘squirreling’ so be it. At least I would have saved her”.
I have a VERY long record of insubordination in Scn. Greater than Captain Kirk. 🙂 Because I refused to be anyone’s slave. I speak with ACTIONS. I do not complain and do nothing about my situations in life. So all this talk about victimhood, makes me yawn.
It is not defeatist to understand that you do not have complete control over your life… It’s a fact that certain experiences teach you, in no uncertain terms.
These experiences also teach you humility, compassion and the importance of doubt.
You think there are no excuses for disconnection.
Let’s take a step back from the scientology experience for one moment.
I have good friends who have two kids. One of them has a severe psychiatric problem. Medicated, he can control himself and have a normal life. Unmedicated, he becomes a violent, unpredictable and dangerous person, prone to bursts of violence to himself and others. Later, when he became better with proper treatment, he explained to his parents that there were voices in his head, and that it was almost impossible to disobey what they asked him to do.
Since he was an adult, my friends could not impose treatment on him. At one point he threatened his mother and his sister with violence, so my friends had no choice but to call the police to kick him out of the house and place a restrictive order on him. They refused to see him unless he agreed to get treated – actually they were afraid of him, and any encounter he had with them invariably ended with extorsion of money by various threats of violence to them or himself.
In this case, in the end, their kid touched the bottom of his misery and had no choice but to get treated. But there was nothing my friends could do for him, and they had to protect themselves and their daughter from him. It was not their fault, and neither love, integrity or intelligence could have cured their son’s illness. It was neither under their or their son’s control. They were both victims of a severe mental illness.
I trust you can understand why these good parents had no choice but to throw their son out, even though they love him very much.
The scientology disconnection is different because what is involved are mostly beliefs. However, to a true believer, these things are just as real as the threats of violence of a mentally ill or drug addicted child.
What makes it so real is that terrible certainty that they are right. It does not help that they think their children, like themselves, can have complete control over their lives, and “choose” to be victims of disconnection – after all, they can always do what needs to be done to be in good standing, can’t they ? Aren’t they able to “make it go right” ?
That’s what I’m getting out of your stance – that same lack of compassion, that same terrible certainty. The certainty that with enough of X, X being completely dependent upon your will, Y cannot happen to you, so Y is your fault.
It’s not love, integrity or intelligence that will provide protection against committing those atrocities, or help people recover from them. It’s compassion, understanding, humility. To have that compassion and understanding, you need to understand that there are things which are not quite under a person’s control, that… Shit happens.
In all the stories I’ve read about people who have chosen not to disconnect or reconnected with a loved one, that compassion and understanding was there. Love and integrity, sadly, were not enough.
I really appreciate these words Kesmit. Integrity can’t stand side by side with a lack of compassion. You said this well.
Kemist : “It is not defeatist to understand that you do not have complete control over your life… It’s a fact that certain experiences teach you, in no uncertain terms.”
I am sorry Kemist, but I can possibly share that viewpoint. Of course that we do not have – at the moment – complete control over our lives; but the virtue lies in constantly seeking such control, and in never becoming a victim of our circumstances. In short, never become a conformist with our situations in life. For me, the REAL definition of a Scientologist is “someone who is a willing victim of life”.
Kemist : “These experiences also teach you humility, compassion and the importance of doubt.”
I have all of those as well, and a lot more than the average person have, as much arrogant as that might sound. You missed my point for a SECOND time. I DO have compassion for the ones who are suffering from Disconnection as well as I have compassion for those who misguidedly decided to disconnect from their love ones for religious reasons. The apparent difference between you and me ( and among others here and me), is that my compassion does not makes me blind to the REALITY of the situation : that those who decided to disconnect have HEAVY moral and ethical issues in their lives. And the more you decide to become blind to that reality, the more difficult would become your task of helping them.
It would become more difficult as you are going the “you are being a poor victim” route, instead of the “you need to regain your self-respect and code of honor” route. DM is of no consequence here. I repeat, DM is of NO CONSEQUENCE here, as much as you (possibly, cause I don’t know for sure) and other posters here LOVE to assign DM an authorship he really never had. But if that’s the game you, Mike and others here wants to play, so be it; who am I to mess with your games in life?
Kemist : “You think there are no excuses for disconnection.”
I NEVER EVER said that; you TOTALLY assumed it. Reasons for Disconnection DO exist, but NEVER about religious beliefs; NEVER, EVER.
Kemist : “Let’s take a step back from the scientology experience for one moment.”
Ok
Kemist : “I have good friends who have two kids. One of them has a severe psychiatric problem. Medicated, he can control himself and have a normal life. Unmedicated, he becomes a violent, unpredictable and dangerous person, prone to bursts of violence to himself and others. Later, when he became better with proper treatment, he explained to his parents that there were voices in his head, and that it was almost impossible to disobey what they asked him to do.”
“Since he was an adult, my friends could not impose treatment on him. At one point he threatened his mother and his sister with violence, so my friends had no choice but to call the police to kick him out of the house and place a restrictive order on him. They refused to see him unless he agreed to get treated – actually they were afraid of him, and any encounter he had with them invariably ended with extorsion of money by various threats of violence to them or himself.”
“In this case, in the end, their kid touched the bottom of his misery and had no choice but to get treated. But there was nothing my friends could do for him, and they had to protect themselves and their daughter from him. It was not their fault, and neither love, integrity or intelligence could have cured their son’s illness. It was neither under their or their son’s control. They were both victims of a severe mental illness.”
“I trust you can understand why these good parents had no choice but to throw their son out, even though they love him very much.”
But of course I DO understand that scenario, Kemist. But the example you brought up does not match AT ALL with the scenario under which Disconnection occurs in Scn. People in Scn (99.9999% of them) disconnect PURELY and SOLELY for religious reasons, which is a VERY misguided and STUPID (Yes Mike, it IS stupid) reasons to say the least.
Kemist : “The scientology disconnection is different because what is involved are mostly beliefs. However, to a true believer, these things are just as real as the threats of violence of a mentally ill or drug addicted child.”
You excusing them like this is almost childish, Kemist. It seems to me that you are guilty of having disconnected from a family member, and are just trying to feel better about it by using misguided explanations. If you did, the ONLY way to heal yourself, is to REALLY confront (w/out blaming yourself neither, as that NEVER works) what you did until you can’t find no “reasons” nor “explanations” AT ALL. THEN, and only then you can easily heal.
I am not a saint by a looooooong ways, Kemist. I am probably guilty of 20-30x of more sins than any of you guys and gals here are. The doors of “heaven” are CLOSED for me this lifetime, and I can perfectly live with that. I made peace with that. But if I learned something valuable (which I did, and a lot) from my experiences of doing bad actions, is that the ONLY reason one does bad actions boils down to just one factor and only one : SELFISHNESS which is the same as SEPARATENESS. So I am just being realistic here, I am not being uncompassionate at all as I DO feel the need to help those who lost themselves through their own sins.
Kemist : “What makes it so real is that terrible certainty that they are right. It does not help that they think their children, like themselves, can have complete control over their lives, and ‘choose’ to be victims of disconnection – after all, they can always do what needs to be done to be in good standing, can’t they ? Aren’t they able to ‘make it go right’ ?”
Excuses and more excuses, I am afraid, Kemist. But that’s OK to dissent and disagree. One DOES chooses to be a victim of Disconnection when one decide to disconnect from our love ones for religious reasons. I suggest that you find a way to heal your wounds w/out resorting to needing to justify your actions in ANY way, shape or form.
Kemist : “That’s what I’m getting out of your stance – that same lack of compassion, that same terrible certainty. The certainty that with enough of X, X being completely dependent upon your will, Y cannot happen to you, so Y is your fault.”
You missed ALL my points, Kemist. A duplication (which I don’t mean “an agreement”) of the essence of my comments never occurred. And I lack the time to keep trying to make you get my points.
Kemist : “It’s not love, integrity or intelligence that will provide protection against committing those atrocities, or help people recover from them. It’s compassion, understanding, humility. ”
You keep confusing terms and definitions every time. Those words and concepts ARE interrelated; you can’t just separate them out as you are apparently doing. Compassion is something that is EARNED through the guilty party showing some regret for what he/she did. I never just give compassion away, nor expect it from anybody towards myself unless I feel TRULY sorry for what I did. As I advised before, study those concepts on workable and honest works on philosophy such as Will Duran’s “An History of Philosophy”. Just at least admit to the possibility that your current definitions of those concepts are being altered and wrongly interpreted by you.
Kemist : “To have that compassion and understanding, you need to understand that there are things which are not quite under a person’s control, that… Shit happens.”
Again, that’s a justification – an a HUGE one, btw – that makes the one using it weaker and less able to effectively handle situations in life. That’s a form of self-denial.
Kemist : “In all the stories I’ve read about people who have chosen not to disconnect or reconnected with a loved one, that compassion and understanding was there. Love and integrity, sadly, were not enough.”
Those things ARE IN THE SAME CATEGORY, Kemist. You are just foolishly playing with words, and confusing yourself. Compassion is not the same ad pitying somebody which is which you seems to be doing.
Are we done?
I can not imagine the damage done to a child who has been publically rejected by her father. Cruise is still “public” enough to have his face plastered on magazine covers in the grocery stores, on television entertainment shows that advertise Cruise’s movie previews and countless other places where Suri can see him. How does a mother explain to her child that “dad” is too busy to see her? How does a child deal with other people openly praising her father, but she is not worthy of his attention. What about the fact that he sees his other children, but not her?
This heinous behavior on Cruise’s part will always leave a hole in Suri’s heart. I believe there is a special place in Hell for people who destroy children. To sacrifice his child for a narcissistic delusion will eventually catch up with him and by then it will be too late.
Ann, according to this “new” information provided by the Church of Scientology via one of its fatwas, the church does this good thing like this, and that good thing like that, and this good thing over here like this etc. BUT…Who ever really remembers actually meeting one of these church members that actually does one of this, that or the other good deeds on record? It’s like the church’s word vs the people’s. I was just past the New York Org TODAY TWICE a few hours ago. The place is a GHOST TOWN EVEN during course breaks. 🙂
Both Flag’s multi-story parking facilities are all but totally empty. Surface parking is sparsely populated so now anyone, not just Scientology VIPs, can park close to the Sandcastle front door to “report to ethics” for suspicion of reading this blog!
Regardless of anything the cult may pronounce on recognized media outlets or broadcast on the high frequency dog whistle only real OT’s can hear on SuMP (because nothing else is getting created or broadcast there), Tom Cruise has abandoned his only biological kid, Suri.
That, more than any other failing an evil cult can impose on its believers, is what continues to resonate with the general public. What kind of stupid fucking idiot would cut his own kid out of his life, because he was legally prevented from brainwashing her into the cult he prefers?
The ramifications of his choices are simply beyond anything good people can comprehend – that’s why the taint of this horrible decision he made will follow him always – regardless of what he does now or in the future.
Because deviance, greed, brutality, and secrecy are at the heart of Scientology, Scientology cannot publicly own up to what it really is and really does.
1. Disconnection demonstrably exists and is a standard practice of Scientology. Why Scientology must lie about it speaks to the fact that chronic and pathological lying is intrinsic to Scientology. Lying is the senior meta-tech in Scientology. Lying comes before anything else.
2. Lying in Scientology takes many forms: PR, regging, the vast over-promising of what the Tech can actually do, excuses made for the conduct of David Miscavige, and the bogus international stats of expansion. This is all lying and it happens everyday because Scientology is deceptive, dishonest, and has massive withholds on its own members, the public, and the media.
3. Scientology’s chronic lying is incurable and irremediable and will never stop because it is necessary to the survival of Scientology. If Scientology could not tell lies then it would not be Scientology; it would be something else.
4. There cannot be, and has never been, an honest Church of Scientology. Lying was in the DNA of Dianetics and this genetic predisposition for lying was passed on to the Church of Scientology.
5. In order to remain in good standing, Scientologists are forced to go along with the Church of Scientology’s lying. This forces Scientologists to participate in a conspiracy of lying which they excuse as PR or as a necessity for the greatest good.
6. Once the pattern of constant lying is established, Scientologists gradually become delusional about the Church and the Tech. This decent into self-deception cripples Scientologists in profound ways they do not understand.
7. The “bubble” is self-deception on a personal, collective, and institutional level. Scientologists are only fooling themselves. Events and IAS festivals only serve to reinforce the collective delusion that Scientology actually has an impact on the world. And yet actions such as distributing copies of TWTH does nothing and means nothing. The distribution of millions of copies of a meaningless phamplet is meaningless. Scientologists fail to see this and deceive themselves into believing absurd claims: TWTH reduced crime in Colombia by 70%. Anyone who believes such the preposterous claims made is, by definition, a “Scientologist in good standing” — and this where “Scientologist in good standing” means “one who is willing to go along with the collective lies and delusions of the group. The repressed and pervasive despair within the Church of Scientology must be enormous.
7. As a practical consequence of living a lie, it becomes both convenient and necessary for Scientologists to disconnect from anyone and everyone who could threaten their collective bubble world. Disconnection is therefore a collective Scientology defense against cognitive dissonance and despair.
8. Lying about Disconnection by claiming that it does not exist proves the willingness of Scientologists and their Church to practice and participate in a conspiracy of lying for both PR reasons and in order to perpetuate the group delusion that the Church of Scientology and participation therein actually means something and has an impact on the world.
9. If the Church of Scientology actually just came and said, “Yes we practice Disconnection and we do not apologize for this practice,” then the public would be correctly informed about this tenet of Scientology.
10. What would be wrong with the Church of Scientology correctly informing the public about all of the tenets of Scientology?
11. Why must the Church habitually and pathologically lie when it could just as easily tell the truth?
I would go further and say chronic lying predates Dianetics and Scientology, all the way back to Hubbard himself.
The alteration of truth has become so prevalent, so pervasive, that it is “religious” doctrine.
The Truth is the greatest threat to the church. With the truth, the whole thing starts to unwind. And it’s very difficult to sew everything back up, maybe impossible. Disconnection is that group policy which seeks to control and manage the dissemination of truth through its membership.
The church faces no greater enemy.
If Truth is your enemy, you’ve already lost.
Btw: By Hubbards own words ( if he didn’t stolen it): “Lying is the lowest level of creation.” By this definition you can see the condition of these “non-gods-movement”.
Hi Jeffrey,
Tom Cruise is in a bad situation no matter what he does. Which ever way he bends he’s f*****d. Not that I have any sympathy for a guy that takes slave labor as his due, because he’s such a valorous honorable douchebag.
The lying culture and its corrosive effects are something that does get under your skin.
It gets easier to lie to family and friends that you are doing well in the cherch to deflect their soon to come critical statements. Let their words bounce off our white gleaming smiling lying teeth. Then you’re on the ground in pain from lying to yourself.
You open your eyes and see the wasteland around you. No truth, just smiles and being “upstat” for your Sci-bot friends and any staff member with a clipboard standing too close.
You say the right thing, smile easily and fakily.
Oh the pain.
Then one day you step away and wobble. Your friends are gone, your staff friends look at you like you are damaged and “don’t get it” and pity you. They think you are out-ethics if you’re not having “wins.”
Your best friend says, “call us when you get handled and are doing better.” What’s better than not being in crushing debt like them? Having retirement savings? Lying in session and to the reg that you are tapped. Why did the auditor ask that anyway? What C/S programs withhold questions about your income and money? To help me? To unburden me of my money that I worked hard for after giving them a ton of money? Now I have withholds because I got a new Japanese car? Did some eager beaver staff member write that up? Isn’t it my choice? When did keeping my own counsel (on the Code of Honor) and not going broke become a withhold from the lying cherch?
So my in-debt friends think I have MU’s and overts. The staff are afraid to call and invite me to awful fundraising events that I’ll politely decline to attend. They are busy lying about how awesome the Ideal Org fundraising is going while their current building is on life support and has been a frank failure for years. They are busier convincing themselves how chosen and elevated they are because they are armed with the “tech.” But it’s lies and doesn’t help.
It’s their goodness and smartness and inner innate talent that brings them to higher heights. They’ve matured and gotten some gains, but given all the credit to LRH. That is the biggest lie of all.
When I realized that and it’s on-going, I knew I’d make a beautiful life outside the bubble. After the tears and the wrenching separation from some, I made new friends who told the truth and loved my truth.
The cherch loves their lies and they’ll go down in the Titanic rearranging the deck chairs. And painting the garage of their Ideal Morgues while the main building burns. With buckets of water handy and hoses of water present, they’ll turn their backs and say, “I feel like a big thetan today.” In full delusional Clampire member lockstep.
And that’s no lie!
Excellent post Clear.. You have given lurkers much to think about..You might have possibly planted a seed of doubt. Thank you.
Hi Clearly Not Clear, A rocket of a comment! Archived it for future reference.Thank you.❤️
SMP (Jeffery), excellent comment.
Profound comment, Jeffrey. I’m giving it to someone still in the bubble to peruse and digest. Hopefully, it’ll have meaning for them, relieve them of their participation in the delusion. At best. At worst… they’re too far gone.
Real food for thought in the comment and fun low up.
Mario Feninger is living his last days. He was more than my dear friend , my mentor , he was family . I have known him for over 30 years.
He disconnected from me when I got declared but I knew his reasons , he never lied to me and I could have handled it better, it was a hard time and I wasn’t thinking too straight.
But now , I am not permitted to see him in his last hour. His care giver/ companion Ian Brooks won’t let me in after all these years. I hope he gets lots of good points from his MAA and a special place in hell.
I want every person UTR or lurkers to read this and get a glimpse of the insanity.
Because Mario loved me and I can’t say good bye.
No such thing as disconnection in this benevolent organization right?
And to all the people who loved him or loved his artistry , I am sorry.
I don’t know how others see this. Unfortunately there are no statistics. I consider disconnection being treason in most cases. And treason is something pretty harsh and unforgivable if done without ‘inform yourself honestly’.
I’d really love to hear from others. What are your opinions? Can someone claim having been a victim of the cult while having played an active and treasonous role? Is a ‘I am sorry’ enough when they finally leave the cult?
I am still stuck on the same question:
https://barefacedmessiah.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/scientology-i-cannot-get-over-it/
Barefaced , you would be lucky to get an “I am sorry” . Very few people seem to be able to utter these words , it would be too simple , nothing in scientology is simple and people just “out” are not simple for the most part.
In my opinion , better be ready to forgive , let the past be the past , chalk it off as experience . Treason is written all over this story will all share , the pain of it can consume you or make you grow. Most days I choose to remember them as they were before the fear and disconnection , even before they got involved in scientology in some cases , if they show up at my door that’s what I’ll see.
Those who were always selfrighteous regardless, I don’t expect to welcome back. It is not a black and white proposition .
I agree though that where children are concerned it is harder , definitely harder to forgive . Ourselves for getting them into it and the various players who took them away from us.
I read your story , take care , it is not easy.
Marie, thank you for the info about Mario. He was once one of my closest friends. I lived across the street at the Alto Nido and saw him and Ian everyday. I’ve been wondering about him. I know he was extremely gullible when it came to the church and he always believed everything that came out of it. He could be reasoned with, however, and had a big heart and a wonderful sense of humor. Ian, though harmless enough, was never the sharpest knife in the drawer and I’m not surprised he has shut you out.
After spending a big inheritance to do OTVII Mario was going to use his powers to achieve financial security. This I was told by an overjoyed Ian. Of course that never came to pass and they were always financially impoverished. Mario was coerced by members of the church to decline a monthly income offered by Allen Barton, a declared former member, who later wrote a play about it, “Disconnection”. It was performed at the Beverly Hills Playhouse to excellent reviews.
Mario was a truly great pianist as anybody who ever heard him play will testify. His purpose for getting into scientology, that is to say, the ‘ruin’ he wanted to get handled, was his crippling stage fright. It never got handled not even after OTVII! How odd he and Ian remained loyal to a “technology” which failed them in every possible way!
Let’s not forget that Suri would not even exist if Scientology didn’t want to present a “holy family” to the world. Let’s face it, everybody loves a baby. How better a way to quench any kind of gossip about how badly they treat children than to show a celebrity couple smothering their child with couture clothing, gourmet food, rides in fighter jets, and trips to Disney World? Especially if they can show her sucking on a Penis Pop, and claiming that “she asked for it…she’s an old soul, she knows what she wants”? And her mom, well, isn’t she the Model Scientology Wife? And Cruise. While Hubbard may have fallen a bit short of physical perfection, and Miscavage falls…a bit short in a few directions, Cruise looks like a leader. And acts like a leader, at least in the eyes of the people who made the infamous video. Cruise is what Miscavage and Hubbard wanted to be.
Now, the fruit of one night is a millstone around his neck.
How corny it all is. The lies that surround Scientology are staggering and getting more & more blatant, yet it makes no difference to a Scientologist. It seems apparent the only ones interested in anything resembling the truth is an ex-Scientologist. The public for the most part couldn’t care less, it’s all media drama, just like corrupt politicians & businessman, yesterday’s news comes quickly. If it wasn’t for the law and legal mumbo jumbo they’d all be behind bars or worse.
As far as Scientology as an organisation is concerned I guess the only way to describe it properly is by action in their own terms – has a withhold been missed? And take it from there. An honest sec check of David Miscavige and the results made public would see the Cof$ gone by the end of the month! All those circling lawyers would have all their Christmases come at once.
Think I’ll go watch the footy.
Two years ago i sent a message via facebook messenger to someone who I knew from St. Louis org back in the day. I was immediately blocked but just yesterday I got a response. After a very brief exchange I was disconnected. Last time I checked, I’m still blocked. To be fair, I am very suppressive… screen shot pics attached…
http://i.imgur.com/wjs1xLg.jpg
awww… that’s sad.
This happened on Thursday night:
My husband’s eldest son (Luke) received a call from someone wanting to purchase a vehicle. He had been referred by Luke’s recently-routed-out-of-the-SO-but-still-drowning-in-koolaid brother Bruce.
Luke himself is not and has never been a Scientologist.
The conversation went something like this:
Buyer: So, are you related to Bruce?
Luke: Yes, he’s my brother.
Buyer: So you’re Luke Jackson?
Luke: Yes, that’s right (duh), I’m Bruce Jackson’s brother.
Buyer: Oh…………….ummmmmm…………
Buyer: So hold on, does that mean you’re related to Andrew Jackson?
Luke: Yes, Andrew Jackson is my father
Buyer: Oh…………. ummmmmm…………..
Buyer: So you and Bruce are sons of Andrew Jackson
Luke: Yes, that’s right, Andrew JACKSON is my father, and I am the brother of Bruce JACKSON
Buyer: Oh,…………ummmmm……………..
Buyer: Oh, well, ummm, I don’t think I can do business with you then
Luke: Oh! Why not?
Buyer: Because you’re Andrew Jackson’s son, and he’s not in good standing with the church of Scientology
Luke: Huh? I’m not a Scientologist – I’ve never been part of your church, never had anything to do with your church – I’m selling you a car, this has nothing to do with religion!
Buyer: Mmmmmm, no I can’t deal with you because you’re Andrew Jackson’s son.
Luke: Listen dude, I don’t WANT to deal with you – goodbye!
I saw a photo of possibly the new Commanding Officer of ASHO. It looked like it might be Carol, forget her last name, who used to be the Impact Magazine editor of past, and she might have been an old Saint Hill UK Executive lady.
Mike Ellis, International Justice Chief, looks ill well, sleep deprived of late. Either AVC at Int is in turmoil again and Mike’s “SP” proposals are being held up and Mike’s getting a lot of rejects on his justice submissions, OR something.
Off topic news.
Ellis looks like he’s carrying the full weight of his Pending Basket.
According to US Weekly, TC’s rep had ‘no comment’. Of course Cruise can’t deny he hasn’t seen his daughter in three years because the paparazzi knows where and when he picks his nose. Besides, Katie could easily confirm the charge any time in an interview and he would be exposed as a liar.
So why has he abandoned his daughter? Is it because he’s following the protocols of his religion? Or is it because he’s just a shitty father? Scientology says in effect: “We have nothing to do with the matter so the second greatest scientologist on the planet is just a shitty father”! LOL!!!
Don’t worry Tom, we don’t think you’re solely responsible for your descent into ignobility. We know your religion sold you the bridge that took you there.
Hi Mike, you might want to edit this line: humility does not permeate the world of a sociopaths to. Do you mean too?
Thanks Mimsey. Fixed.
Scientology does not make you disconnect…they have run a MUST HAVE on you and the “tech” tells you that if you don’t disconnect – you “CAN’T HAVE”.
LRH says the definition of insanity is “MUST HAVE / CAN’T HAVE
So by the very definition from Scientology’s own founder…Scientology CREATES insanity.
And – YES it is!
I have zero respect for that idiot, Tom Cruise! Not seeing his child because the evil dwarf says so, just proves how stupid he really is. The cult truly comes first in his feeble mind. He’s becoming a total asshole just like his hero. Hey Tommy Boy! You’re never going to win father of the year! Actually…just the opposite. Asshole!
I feel much better now……
I agree with you, O.S.D. Every time it comes up that Tom Cruise is ignoring his daughter it makes me: mad/sad/disbelieving that he is acting this way. I feel bad for Suri, not having a relationship with her father (after all, it’s not her fault her Dad chose a “religion” with bad policies, including ‘disconnection’) but I have to admit I also feel a very small (maybe 1%) feeling of sympathy for T.Cruise himself, for being so influenced by this cult that he is missing out on seeing his daughter grow up, and that years from now when he wakes up and realizes what he has missed out on, he will be so regretful, so a very small part of me feels sympathy for him too… but in the final analysis, he has free will and is able to make his own choices, and he is choosing hurtful actions towards his daughter. It always comes down to the question, how much of Church members actions are due to “brain washing” or in other words “influence” by this group, and how much is personal choice. I have to think that in the end, a person should be held accountable for their actions. I understand how someone can be confused, tricked, influenced, or think they are doing something for a good reason when it’s not actually true, but at some point, the person has to wake up, make an honest inventory and analysis of where they are and what they are doing, and take charge of their life. People can be forgiven for having wandered down a wrong path, as long as they backtrack and set themselves right in the end, but I have no respect for people who know there are bad things happening in their group, yet deny it, and choose to stay in.
I think you’re being too kind to Tom Cruise.
Way…WAY too kind.
Tom Cruise strikes me as arrogant. He’s not some innocent bystander.
IMO.
Perhaps, someday, Mark will be in a position to take a shot at undoing the gordian knot of the spell that DM holds over Tom; by spilling ALL of the beans about Tom.
Mike, why don’t you mention the freezone? Scientologists respect the faith of others….really?
Why is no reporter asking the obvious? It would be such a devastating question. What is wrong with asking how they apply ‘respect the faith of others’ in terms of freezone? A freezoner is not allowed on course – not even on the lower levels. The freezone is a religion. If not, then Scientology is no religion.
Freezone in the eyes of church scientologists are “ex-scientologists.”
Yes, I understand that. But isn’t this approach too easy? The freezone is a kind of methadone for ex-Scientologists; mostly correct. Still, there are plenty of freezoners, who have never been in the church. They are considered squirrels/SPs and ‘Scientologists respect the faith of others’ obviously does not apply to them. You cannot go to the church and say ‘my religion is freezone Scientology, please let me find out the truth for myself by looking at both sides’. And above lie ‘Scientologists respect the faith of others’ becomes very obvious for exactly such scenario. How could a spokespuppet dodge such question? They would really have to play the card ‘they are not others’ or similar nonsense. The answer is a lose lose scenario. Do you see that? Acknowledging the freezone in the media … mhmmm, I have never seen that so far. Where is a public discussion? Mentioning the freezone would most likely be considered speading unwanted news to the few church members in good standing.
My wife and I hosted an SP party at our home a few years back. We had a great time! It was potluck. Some lady I didn’t know, showed up with an awesome casserole! She asked if I was still doing Scientology. When I replied, “No,” she said, “I see.” She quickly left & never came back to get the dish the casserole came in.
Another family that was there, contacted me via FB. She, too, asked if I was still doing Scientology. When I replied, “no,” she said, “Thank you for telling me this.” And then unfriended me! I must have super powers!
oooh! Can I have the casserole dish? I left mine somewhere a while back and can’t remember whose house it was, and I need one.
I doubt my wife would give it up…
darn…. oh well, it was worth a try. I guess I’ll have to go shopping soon and buy a new one.
The quickest way to scare the crap out of a Scientologist is to tell them you’re an ex-Scientologist.
Works every time!
But these folks were out, but still practicing. I found that strange…
Strange… it is Scientology isn’t it or whatever interpretation of it. Wacko hey?
It IS strange. They took the koolaid with them.
They thought SP meant SuperPower? Hilarious!
I’m sorry Mike but you’re totally missing the point. When the eternal salvation of every man, woman and child on the planet, yeah the universe is at stake what’s a few lies here and there.
The next thing you’ll be telling us is OSA’s Gestapo tactics aren’t justified.
Sheesh!
Hi Harvey, I like your comment.Just the right shake of spice on the old GO/OSAs tail! Always
Caring about children? Caring about family? Suri?
Once the GE is a Family Man has been word cleared and demoed and agreed to, the hypnosis sets in:
Familial bonds are an aberration. Children are just genetic appendage who can get in the way of bringing “sanity” to the world.
“I’m saving millions of children. I will not let one genetic appendage get in my way!”
“I’m surviving on all dynamics and not interested in one flesh meat body called a child”
“Thank you Ron for the tech that has severed ties to my own sense of family and decency”
“We are the cream of the cream!”
As Ron had a fractured family as a result of his philosophy and mental state, so the world of Scientology has a fractured family dynamic.
Empathy for the feelings of others is a point of contempt or a point of entry for dissemination.
The Nazi youth were taught to separate their feelings from others in order to harm.
Much harm has been done to the family in Scientology as a result of Ron inability for empathy or sympathy.
Hi Brian, Again your two comments resonate for me.I always had a feeling from my first SO day,that children were not commonly seen around.Then I found out they had their own org,but did not see that dump until a few years later.On Melrose.However when I dove into Ron’s writings & all that was available with tapes etc to me then,a nagging thought kept on in my head.I do not think Ron cares for children at all,unless they are in the Messenger Corps.So Ron aided then I never analyzed that thread of dislike of kids in the cult until actually reading your posts.Your take on TC is so true for me.And the lies flow like rancid honey from dm.It is so obvious to me now how rotten the whole structure is.⭐️??❤️xo
:-))
There is a technical explanation for such behavior and the inhumanity it causes when it spills over into an operating attitude outside of session control (most of what Scientology morphed into anyway). In the book Advanced Procedures & Axioms it states, quote – “sympathy must be taken wholly off the case.”
The same book also contains directions, called ‘ACTS’ The Eleventh Act states, quote – “The eleventh act consists of running out all SYMPATHY on everyone and anyone in this lifetime, every dynamic. This is done by running the sympathy for its duration, as a lock, over and over until the sympathy is erased. This includes sympathy for self, for every part of the body, for children, for sexual partners, for every friend, for every group, organisation, state or country, for Man in general, for matter, for energy, for space, for time, for trees and any vegetable life, for bacteria, for cells including sperm, for dogs, cats, horses, cattle, pigs, sheep, game birds, game animals, for souls, spirits, idols, clairvoyants, saints, for the Supreme being.” End quote.
Hubbard had a MAJOR fault imo of getting too use to his own experience and splattering it across his organisation. The chrome hard attitude of execs and the brutal way of life in the SO are good examples. For all that Scientology potentially offers it all went to hell when the “session never ended.” The tech is dramatized throughout the organisation, which by their writing and technology is a suppresive act of the highest order. Hubbard failed to see the incredibly steep gradient he eventually imposed and then failed to see others doing the same.
Whether there’s any use for his “tech” is beside the point here, look don’t listen does apply. The SO eventually put everything they touched “in session” with a precise brutality that would make the SS proud. Disconnection is a prime example, it rips peoples families and lives apart.
Scientology is just a dangerous heap of crap in the hands of idiots.
Thanks I Yawn. Sympathy was processed out of the Scientologist.
So was conscience.
I think the word demonic is not far fetched when defining these doctrines.
Maybe Hubbard suffered from one of those mental disorders whereby he could not feel other people.
There was an old timer that someone posted on Marty’s some years back.
This guy was friends with Ron. He said, Ron didn’t talk to people, he talked at them.
He confronted them.
To put sympathy below hate on the tone scale and have all of us buy it; amazing.
Yes Brian I agree with you. Hubbard was the effect of his own creation for the want of better words. His arrogance knew no bounds apparently and I can only imagine in his own mind he was a very lonely man. No one could keep up with him in his own estimation and measured everyone else against some sort of scale. I think his scale was something like, “well… I worked it all out. How come you didn’t? And he then thought less of them. KSW 1 stands as an example to his “genius” which he guarded very closely. I have no doubt his intentions through the 50s & 60s were milder than the late 70s onward, where they became increasing introverted and wacky. Too much self processing on top of an already elevated opinion of himself maybe? But the bottom line is, his creation fell through the bottom of the bag and took a lot of good people with it.
Great blog post today Mike. Thank you. It got me thinking about how Scientology is a movement that creates two extremes. Hard liners who are beyond the reach of rational discourse and can only parrot Hubbards utterances in defense, or those who have been deemed “undesirable” due to their unwillingness to surrender their self determinism. Hubbard said there are black hats and white hats, and the grey hats in between are sick and failing individuals. Most of your members in good standing in Scientology are grey hats. They are “PTS” cash strapped, hounded, stressed exhausted or trying to appear their hats are white. They are painfully aware that many of their own friends have been declared black hats by the organization and out of fear they try to make their grey hats appear white in fear of being found out.
This is an organization that has created more “SP’s” and ex members than graduates in good standing since day one. Scientology has probably brought the art of air brushing people out of photos to the level of fine art. Probably no other “religious” organization has gone out of it’s way to re-write it’s own founding members out of written history including Hubbard’s own family.
Since it is in their DNA to create their own enemies it is no surprise they also have a plethora of hard line policies to deal with these “enemies” once “identified” (created) . As you pointed out Mike, this includes the concealment of these practices to the general public. If truth is the actual time form place and event then Scientology by it’s own practice demands cognitive dissonance (not-isness) of it’s own members lest they become fair game themselves. Scientology claims to be the “play nice” religion when in fact they are the bull sharks in 3 feet of water.
Sounds like you’ve been to Clearwater Beach. LOL
Or maybe just Flag.
You certainly get it.
Doug Parent, + 1, thumbs up, “like” your comment. Black hats and white hats with no shades of gray, nothing in between… that’s not the actuality of life and people.
Hi Doug,Thank you for a fantastic post.I feel concealing their hard line practices to the general public has become a fine art also for cos.But then again the Internet has changed the way people gather info and the public can go online and judge for themselves.I feel that must drive the cult nuts.I loved your last line.So so true.xo
Imagine, if you will, that you had a friend or associate that behaved the way the Church of Scientology behaves?
This “friend” chronically spins nearly everything he tells you. And if you were to point out this fact, this friend would attack you, threaten you, promise to ruin your life.
This “friend” constantly asks you for money and invents reasons why you should simply give him your savings or retirement, or convinces you to go into debt – all to finance his latest “bright idea”.
If you tire of this “friend”, he will covertly launch a Black PR campaign against you. Talking to your other friends and relatives behind your back, telling them things imparted with confidence, but perversely twisted to create the most damage.
If you seek to expose this “friend” for who he really is, he will tell you he’s doing it for your own good, that he is the best friend you could ever have, and without him you are fucked.
If you decide not to back down and go head-to-head with him, you will discover his true talents – breaking up your family, or getting you fired from your job.
Then suddenly you have an epiphany – you don’t have to have this “friend” in your life.
That’s right, you can simply WALK AWAY. Goodbye “friend”, goodbye drama, goodbye stress, goodbye turmoil.
So, let’s be honest. NO ONE would tolerate having a friend behave this way. So, why tolerate from an organization like the Church of Scientology? Because they can help you go free? Does this sound like someone or something that is capable of bringing about freedom?
The sooner you realize the Church of Scientology is a authoritarian, dishonest, narcissistic group with anti-social tendencies, the better off you will be.
Wow you nailed it statpush.. Excellent Post. Absolutely 100% agree.
Hi Baby Bunker, So happy to see you! I agree with both your comments above.Waves of ❤️XO
So let me get this straight: the person who is touted as being the number two person in scientology these days, David Miscavige’s BFF, a person who David Miscavige said is “the most dedicated scientologist I know” is not forced to not talk to his 10 year old daughter, he just chooses to ignore her? So THAT is the kind of a person you become in scientology? Hmmm…..yep great PR going there.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Yep! That’s what happens when you join this cult.
Right, it’s definitely not “family-centered” with LRH’s one hour of family time, which was soon cancelled, and secluding children off at ‘the Ranch’ or daycare centers with little ‘care’, then the ‘no-children allowed’ policy of David Miscavige, then no marriages between Sea Org’ers… can’t really think of any events that promote family bonds in the Church of Scientology.
The Disconnection Policy is an admission of guilt. If a church or group has something of such great value or worth as the church of scientology claims, then human beings would flock to it. There would be millions, if not billions of members.
It is obvious that david miscavige doesn’t believe that scientology has anything of great value or worth to offer not only because he keeps changing “standard tech” but also because His main “stat” is donations received for nothing in return for the individual doneeeee.
Like “Seinfeld” was touted as the show about nothing. Scientology has increasingly become the religion about nothing.
Has it really been five years since that New Yorker article first appeared? Wow. It remains a fascinating piece and was the stimulus for Paul Haggis’ documentary “Scientology: The Prison of Belief”. Sweeter still for long-term Scientology-watchers is that the article is also the death knell for Tommy Davis’ position as Captain Miscavige’s chief PR bumboy, amplifies the level of delusion a Scientologist must operate under, confirms that Scientologists are lying liars who lie, and it completely gives the game away so far as Scientology itself is concerned.
Tommy’s brief admission in the article is worth repeating just for the truth it tells, however inadvertently:
Deeeeelicious.
I was shocked the first time I read this, and the fact that Davis went there – when he didn’t have to. He could have easily pitched – “Don’t confuse the man’s works with the man. Any man can have flaws, but the true value is in his contributions”.
What the hell was he thinking? I suspect some underlying doubt.
So much for Big Being Status. Suri gets thrown under the Bus.
On the bright side,this maybe the straw that breaks Scientology.
Tom,
I can make you as a minister in
“The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster”
for a small fee of course.
I have suffered (and still do) the heartache of very loved ones who will no longer communicate to me because of my “sp” status. So I experience the harsh and mandatory disconnection policy of the CoS every day.
But in regards to MISTER Cruise, I highly doubt that anyone has put pressure on him to disconnect from his under ten year old daughter. But whether someone has or not, Cruise is COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE for deciding that he no longer wants a relationship with his own little girl. That is COMPLETELY on him (if indeed these press reports are true). And if true, these reports certainly reveal what kind of a man he is and is not (no matter how much his co-stars all seem to love his hard work and his professionalism, he fails as a father, a man and a decent human being.)
Ditto.
My son disconnected from me because he was called into the MAA office, shown all the “relevant” bulletins and told all manner of things to support why I am an SP. Believe me, my son wasn’t shown bulletins and references on ARC, Communication being the universal solvent, The Code of Honor, Honor and Love Your Parents, etc.
Besides the fact that david miscavige is not going to tell Tom Cruise to shun his daughter, by law alone, Tom Cruise is allowed to see Suri. It is his decision; he just didn’t like the terms. Not that I care about TC; he can decide as he so chooses. My son was writing up his overts and doing the Doubt Formula to the MAA’s liking until he decided to disconnect from me. Yea right, it was my son’s “choice.”
Hi Joe, Thank you for your comment. I too have younger sibs never ins who refuse to talk with me because I was in SO.Ridiculous all of it!Disconnection is one of the worst crimes the cult permits and encourages.The piece today really showed me the lies from dm and what really occurs.And for that TC to me he is a very very microscopic being with a future filled with money but zero love.xo
Mista Cruise’s behavior makes sense if you view him as a deluded narcissist jockeying for the Big Being #3 position. Kids? Fuck that. We’re talking the UNIVERSE BABY!
Yup. Gotta get your “relative importances” lined up.
Hi statpush, I hear you about TC.And Tom you have to get Ethics In On It All! Ha ha!XO
But despite miscavige’s false defenses, the damage has been done.
The article spreads the idea that Tom C does not care about his daughter and his image ends being like a ‘puppet’
And no many may comment about the parroted lies miscavige gives to the press, but I bet that the majority of recipients want nothing to do with scientology, and never will.
Lies and cowardice never succeed.
Well said. One of your best.
Through the years and months of reading this blog and a couple others, what is remarkable to me is how much change and yet sometimes how little change I have experienced and to my view … others have experienced.
What I think is not known is just how difficult a lifetime (“born in status) or an adult lifetime (joins staff, Sea Org or as public as an adult) it is to FIND … “who am I, really?” At my core?
Without all this added “stuff” (the scientology “scriptures”) — some of which was frankly quite helpful and some of which was weird and most of it just added layers on top of what is really quite a complex being called a HUMAN BEING.
CERTAINTY is what we were taught. Who doesn’t want certainty in a complex, ever changing world? No one.
And yet — certainty IS THE VERY THING that we cannot ever have.
There is no certainty.
Just the ability — hard won — to be awake, wise and interested in ones own survival ultimately so that one can be of benefit to others.
AND it need not be “SAVING THE WHOLE WORLD” — nope.
How about just being nice to a neighbor or an elderly relative? Or not lumping everyone into a category which is opposite to what I hold near and dear. Making those “others” into the bad ones.
True — sociopaths cannot and will not change. The empathy “gene” doesn’t exist.
Yet – our relationship TO sociopaths can change. Blaming a sociopath for anything in ones life is just a blame of a different color.
The answers CAN be found within. But the work it takes is long, hard, scary and I’ve found most would rather just not go down that path, including myself.
This is one of your best. Kudos Mike
WIndhorse
Hi Windhorse, Thank you.One of Mike’s best and one of your best.xo
“If you RETURN to Catholicism AFTER converting to scientology, you are definitely persona non grata to scientology and all scientologists must disconnect from you.”
AFAICT Katie Holmes has done this, and she has chosen to raise Suri as a catholic. So I guess Tom is following policy.
At least Hubbard didn’t say you must be killed if you leave Scamology like MoHamPig ordered in Islame. Oh wait. An ex-scamologist is a SP and R2-45 can be used against them. Oops, El Con and his wacky scamologists!
R2-45: An enormously effective process for exteriorization but its use is frowned on by society at this time –LRH
https://www.flickr.com/photos/72813079@N00/22514234584/in/dateposted-public/
Great pic les!
Hi Mkke, I remember reading the line about R2-45 in early SO going to the word clearer clay demoing it and still a little voice said,this is downright creepy -negative death commands,but being intent on following through what I started when joining SO,I blithely ignored that warning.Some years later I listened and fled.xo
Many did as you Ann. glad you pulled the eject handle!
Ah, the “Start an Anti-Muslim Flame War Derail Tactic.” What? The “Libtard Flame War” and “All Religions are Crazy? tactics not working as well as they used to? Please don’t fall for this folks, it’s derailed several threads over at the Bunker recently. We should all know better by now.