Yesterday, Tony Ortega had a remarkable story on his blog about Bob Duggan, the biggest whale in scientology.
Now more of the details have come to light with a new story on the South African blog which exposes some of the sordid underbelly of this bizarre story.
This whole affair is further proof (as if any were needed) that scientology has truly become the religion that worships money. If you have enough of it, and give it to them, you are not only lauded with phony titles and big sparkly trophies, there is apparently NOTHING that cannot be provided by the “church”.
Their model is the Las Vegas casinos, where the term “whale” originates. High roller gamblers are flown in on private jets, “comped” the most luxurious suites and waited on hand and foot to cater to their every whim. From drugs and women to special food or “unobtainable” tickets to sold out shows or events, nothing is too much for the casino to provide a whale. As long he or she continues to drop serious money at the tables.
So too, it seems, in the “church” of scientology. Hand over enough cash and all the resources of the church and its network of people around the world are available.
Stories of Sea Org labor being used to decorate Tom Cruise’s house or build custom vehicles or create his airplane hangar have been around since JB left with his photographic evidence. Tom Cruise gave many millions to the IAS and other causes, and of course was BFF with his best man and greatest leader he knows, David Miscavige. So, no expense or effort was spared on his behalf.
That was shocking enough, but this story has taken it to another level. Now the church is organizing and monitoring the fostering of children for convenience.
The infamous Charmaine Roger, chief Super Power “fundraiser” has apparently, through her South African connections, arranged for her primary whale to rid himself of a problem child (or maybe more). In exchange for massive donations to “super power” and “ideal orgs” in South Africa (while the nearest orgs to the Duggans are still desperate for ideal org funding) at least one of his children has been “found a home” with a couple of prominent, apparently unsuited, but bought off scientologists in Joburg. As I said on Tony Ortega’s site — they thought this was going to stay inside the bubble. But then they went and declared everyone….
This story is beneath anything I am aware of in the history of the vulture culture.
What next? Will the church arrange to “disappear” uncooperative whale spouses? David Miscavige has already paved the way for that “service” with his own wife.
This is ugly. I don’t know if it violates any laws, but it is certainly immoral. Once again, the most ethical group on earth, the voice for humanity, displays just how astonishingly UNethical it is.
As a curious footnote: South Africa seems to be the “go to” place for scientology problem avoidance (sort of like Paraguay for the Nazis?). When Tony Hitchman fled the country because of his intimate connection to the Reed Slatkin crime spree, it was to South Africa (he is from Rhodesia). It’s also an interesting coincidence that the Duggans, Reed Slatkin and Tony Hitchman were all Santa Barbara org “public” back in the 80’s/90’s.
If these fools accept these conditions in violation of LRH policies and Technology, surely they deserve al lthe things they get?
Ms. P., You brought up an excellent point: Co$ is being supported by the very industry it is continually attacking.
Despicable, absolutely despicable. The Duggan’s sound like they collect children like they collect trophies. So you return the bad goods like you would a shirt or skirt off the rack? Mike is right, this all has to do with these disgusting rich vapid people and Miscavige and the church, not the child. This kid may or may not be a sociopath. With this whole sordid story I envision a child (and a whole Duggan household of children) who has NEVER been hugged or shown any love or affinity whatsoever and then shipped off to that WITCH who had the nerve to state horrible comments about him on Facebook (can you friggin imagine), she makes my blood curdle. This whole story is so sordid I can’t fathom it.
What I also love is that the number ONE Scientology whale is someone who made his billions in pharmaceuticals. WOW not to hypocritical? So who are we fighting against again and donating money to for the IAS Davey?? Was it not all those bad pharm companies??? Sickening.
I don’t comment here often because you all beat me to the punch line stating all that I was already thinking but this time I have to say how disgusted I truly am and so glad I’m no longer on lines!
Response to Pied Piper: (no reply button)
I must have hit quite a button for you to come out of nowhere and launch a personal attack that does not lead to a contribution to the subject under discussion. You are not a usual here.
Maybe you have stocks in pharmaceuticals, work for Duggan, his company, are an OSA troll or whatever.
You are welcome to consume all of the pills you want if you think that helps you but also do take a look at
the horrendous amount of yearly deaths caused by prescription drugs.
It is help turned into betrayal – similar to what the Co$ is doing since quite a while.
At this point we fortunately still have a choice. I care enough about the health of myself and others to research and find alternatives without side effects.
Greta
Well said, Zephyr. I was wondering myself who Pied Piper is and why he/she would rear up out of nowhere to attack you so insultingly. Someone’s chain got rattled, obviously. Well, Mike, thanks. Never dull in Rinderland.
No worries Aqua.
Greta
Well Greta,
I am none of what you accuse me of, I am just someone who reads this blog and is also very knowledgeable on these types of drugs and how they are utilized and how they can help people that are basically in a hopeless position. My point was not wether prescription drugs kill or harm people in general but your derisory accusation that this drug is some evil poison of no benefit which is simply not true. If you had stage 4 lymphotic leukemia or lymphoma there are no alternatives as you descibe them that will be effective whatsoever. People like you are dangerous because you believe that non conventional treatments can help people when there is no evidence that this is true, unless of course you believe in science by success story and that you may spread your misinformation/ propaganda and cause people to make seriously wrong decisions. You have every right to believe in your snake oil remedies but all I asked was for you to at least have some knowledge on what you are commenting, clearly you do not. I don’t feel anger towards you rather pity for your ignorance.
I work with special needs children at my job. I’m talking severe down syndrome, autism, cerebral palsy, delayed speech, violent tendencies, etc. These children are taken care of BY THEIR PARENTS, at home, and with the help of the Public School System. The resources and help provided to these children is enormous. Their parents sacrifice their time and lives to care for these children. These parents are the kindest and most wonderful people I have had the pleasure to know. They make it work. They have other “normal” children to deal with. None of them are millionaires, much less billionaires. This story boggles the mind. Who are these people that ship their children off to S Africa? Wow. Just, WOW. I am disgusted.
Briefly stated, Mike’s point well taken by me is that the Church of Scientology has insinuated itself for its own various money-grubbing purposes into a private family problem which is none of the church’s business and caused the implementation of a solution which is effectively a child-for-money quid pro quo with the far greater preponderance of the “quid” benefiting the CoS.
If the Co$ had assisted in this matter purely as a help flow, that would be OK, because that’s what churches do for their parishioners. It is common for parishioners to appeal to their churches for advice and guidance regarding all kinds of issues, but for any church to opportunistically profit to a huge degree from the proffered solution takes said solution out of the realm of help flow into quid pro quo.
I’m not buying that. Churches helping parishoners with guidance and advice is a far cry from arranging to dispose of problems half way around the world for profit. That also implies that the CO$ is capable or interested in doing anything resembling a real church. Nope. Not buying that.
Bystander, we agree on that. I didn’t state that what the CoS did was a help flow at all. I said that what it did was a quid pro quo.
Having read some of the comments here, there seems to be some mystery about where, who to and how the money is being funnelled, and I would like to shed some light on this.
Initially, when the first donations came in from the Duggans to save Pretoria (early 2013), the Hogarths were getting commission on their donations (I have no idea whether this was 10%, 5% or what). I vaguely recall someone telling me the commission was being “split” so I don’t know how it was apportioned nor exactly how much was paid over other than the what my son personally saw on Robin Hogarth’s bank statements.
At some point, the Hogarths stopped receiving commission on the Duggan donations to Ideal Orgs. I have no data as to why this came about and can only speculate that there was some agreement or change of decision by the Church that the Hogarths no longer receive commissions from Duggan donations. I do know at the time that Carol was upset over this, as she had complained about it to someone very close to me.
IN ADDITION to the commissions they received from the Pretoria Org, the Duggans are directly paying monthly “maintenance” for the child. This money (as far as I know) goes directly to the Hogarths from the Duggans (perhaps on a small via through the Church). This money is for the upkeep, education and living costs directly related to the child. I believe in the USA this is termed “alimony”. In South Africa this is called “maintenance”. The amount they are receiving is exorbitant. IMO $8,500 per month for one child is pretty astronomical. It’s more than some CEO’s of large corporations earn in this country. Dollar/Rand exchange rate is roughly R10.00 to $1.00 – so that gives you an idea.
Whoa – that’s a lot of money taking in the dollar/rand exchange factor. Surely the Duggan’s must have some idea. Perhaps this is to also cover the cost of the Hogarth’s Bridge?
Money will still make its way back into the coffers of the CoS and the Hogarth’s are perfectly positioned for IAS regging now too. They will no doubt have to give an account of how all that money is being spent on one child per month to the MAA’s and regges, unless they are “hands off” to keep the Duggan’s happy and the illusion going.
Thanks Shelley. So the c of s is covering their ass it sounds like. This “arrangement” still stinks to high heaven and the c of s, David Miscavige and Charmaine are still disgusting.
Mike you are right to point out that comments of a personal nature directed towards the boy are inappropriate and unkind. Children should be protected and this includes discussions about them when they cannot speak for themselves. I was not circumspect in my comments and should have distinctly noted only that I “think” there is a problem with the boy based on the reports about him and that I “think” he would benefit from some therapy, since I have never personally dealt with him and therefore am not qualified to make such statements. Even though I have certain disagreements with how the church approaches the subject of mental illness, it was not right of me.
If there are other children in SA (one or two more?) then that indicates that there is a problem with the Duggan’s ability to cope with their adopted children. Perhaps they need some help too and not the easy, offload type either. We don’t know what the problem is there, just when you see that kids are being shipped out to another continent to be fostered, you know there has to be one. Why the children would be sent to SA is strange enough but then when money becomes clearly involved to benefit the church as in Ideal Orgs and a private public’s personal bank account, it gets grossly immoral. I still feel for the boy though who appears to be suffering and destabilized by his circumstances and I do hope that he gets some real help and love in his life soon.
The downward spiral in actuality.
To be overly surprised by this invites a deeper look at many other groups – what church organisation wouldn’t be petrified at their own dirty washing being exposed. Institutional child rape is relatively common is it not?
More exposure not less into the corruption within the organisations of ‘trust’ is required, not just the Cof$ but what a great place for a real precedent of unethical conduct to be decided and prosecuted by the courts.
There’s a Royal Commission into Child abuse running in Australia right now and a number of past church members and deviates within govt organisations have been exposed, Why not something similar into cults like the Cof$ – what more evidence is required? Media pressure is required.
+ 1. Remarkable post! And…you’re absolutely right!
Mike (sorry to respond to you OSD, but there was no “reply” to mike’s last post) good points and I agree. Its offensive to ship the kid off for whatever the reason. I thought we were all working under the assumption he was shipped off because of behavioral problems, otherwise this is not much of a story. And I am willing to bet the Co$ will (if corned) say X is visiting with his ‘Aunt and Uncle Hogwarts’ to learn SA culture..kind of like the British ‘gap’ year or the American ‘Junior year abroad’. Though both the gap year and Jr yr abroad are typically when the student is 19 or 20 (not 13).
I guess your point is the type of behavior is not the issue and that is true, its horrible to dump a kid.
But we can all guess how this is going to get spun….. X is just visiting SA and church members GLADLY volunteered to take him in and the Duggans GLADLY offered to help donate to the SA org, as they have been very generous with the church in the past. When its spun that way it’s looking like much less of a quid pro quo. I do respect your desire to protect an innocent child.
Thanks Chee.
The problem with this version of “spinning” it is the money given to the Hogarths directly, in addition to the payments for “ideal orgs” in S Africa (Duggan’s don’t appear on the list of donors for Santa Barbara org…) and the capper is the reports that get routed via the Cont Finance Director to Charmaine Roger who then forwards them to the Duggans.
If it was not for those facts, this would not be a story worthy of much attention.
Plus, Chee, the allegations of checks that go to the Hogarts directly from Pretoria Org. How do you spin that?
No worries, Chee! Glad I could be of service to you!
Nice point – to which I can only respond: it’s Scientology – it doesn’t have to make sense
“Watching his dog drown in the pool”…IF there was no emotion, NO grief, NO alarm, and he could just watch that, dispassionately, doing nothing about it, just watching…IF that is how, without being on any tranquiizing drug, not being drunk, or stoned, etc., etc., IF this kid experienced the death of a family pet (assuming this dog had never bitten him or hurt him) this way, I would say unequivocally that he’s a sociopath who will one day decide that he is strong and powerful and/or clever enough to get away with doing people in, and only hurt or kill animals if there are no eligible humans. I’m making no apologies for stating this. I do believe that some people – very very few – are born this way, irrespective of what kind of parents they had. OK, so pile on, I can take it.
The discussions about whether this boy is or is not a sociopath or some other categorization are a waste of time:
1. They entirely miss the point — which is that these people have dumped a child in South Africa and this is apparently arranged by the “church” who report back to them on progress in exchange for continuing blood money for their fraudulent “ideal orgs” program and direct payments to the church. The foster parents are prominent members of the church and cheerleaders for the fraud.
2. Nobody who hasnt met this boy and observed him personally has any idea of his ACTUAL mental state. Passing judgment on him is inappropriate and unkind.
3. Speculating about his future state is even more inappropriate
Please, stick to the subject.
Exactly
I think his mental illness is relevant to the extent that he is not getting help from his parents because the Co$ prevents any kind of psychiatric care. You are corect that speculation as to his condition might not be helpful, but it is part of the story. (Assuming his parents dumped him in SA because they could not handle his psychiatric condition).
I don’t think you can simply say “x was dumped in SA and his parents are paying the church to look after him” without acknowledging the reason the parents dumped him in the first place. If the Co$ did not discredit psychology, then maybe x could get treatment in the US.
I don’t want to belabor the point of his illness either and I do agree that speculation doesn’t help matters, but I do think his illness is relevant. Sorry, I hope that makes sense, I know I was rambling there!
I think information from direct observation is valid. Speculation about his mental state is not.
Would this be less of a story if the purported reason for him being sent to S Africa was that Trish Duggan was too tired to care for him? Or he was ugly? Or he wet his bed?
The focus should not be on the CHILD, but the actions of the parents and church.
You “assume” the parents dumped him in SA because they could not handle his psychiatric condition…
But what proof is there that he HAS a “psychiatric condition”? And why are there TWO kids in SA? The other one apparently NOT a problem (though I don’t really know that, I am only aware of the information provided in the Tony O story and the S African blog story and it all comes from people that know about THIS kid, not the other one).
His “illness” would appear to be being an unwanted child for whatever reason that is. And I personally call that a parental illness, not a childhood one.
I completely agree, and regret my comment above that did not abide this advice.
You are right, Mike, sorry.
I am an interested neighbor of many wealthy “whales” with homes in Clearwater. I am not a Scientologist, but started reading Mark Rathburn’s blog years ago, and now stop in here often to read comments. My kids went to school with 3 of the Duggan boys. One was asked to leave after only a few months (his “what I did over the summer” story included watching his dog drown in the pool), another lasted a year or two – not sure why he had to leave. The third was really a special, bright boy. Strangely, I was just discussing him with my son this week “I wonder what ever happened to _____ Duggan” No one has seen/heard from him for about three years (he would be in High School). We both worried about where he might have been “sent”. So sad. He would not have been the boy discussed here, rather, just getting adopted into this family must have been horrible. My friends who live nearby have stories of overwhelmed “mom” sleeping while the kids ravaged the house and shared neighborhood boathouse. I had a conversation or two with mother Duggan (can’t remember her name). She was probably in her late 50s or early 60s, with little ones to run after. She told me her adult son died and left her a fortune on the condition that she foster boys. Was this BS? This was what she told the school – although the last I saw her she had a little girl (about 5-6 years old) with her.
I’d like to add: as crazy as this boy/man is, he’s no sociopath. He’s not cruel or calculating. He never made any helpless creatures suffer or any people either. He’s dangerous and frightening but not in a planned way. Its hard to describe.
A woman I know has a schizophrenic son. The boy had a violent temper as a child and in his teens became schizophrenic after eating some “mushrooms” with his brother. They both got high, but one came down but the other just became really crazy, really out of control. Long story short, I observed him at two different times in his life since then without his medication and there was something very frightening emanating from him – like a devil, a demon, some evil thing, possessing him. I was frightened of him, and I don’t scare easily. This was someone I had known from the age of nine and he was – well, possessed, like – like I don’t know what. Its hard to describe. I’ve also seen him on medication, when he can at least have a comm cycle. Anyway, my opinion is that medication is necessary for the truly insane. Its either that, or a straight jacket, or what they did in the old days, chaining the insane to the ceilings. The first time I saw him sans meds was up close, the second time I was in my ground floor office, and I heard noises that sounded strange, it was summertime, and I went to the window and saw him passing by He was alternately chattering and laughing to himself like a hyena and then grunting and growling like some kind of animal, and his face was like a thundercloud. You can believe I locked my office door until he was well out of sight. Sorry, that’s schizophrenia, an extreme case. He needs medication, he always will, and someone will always need to ensure that he always takes it. Scientology is marvelous, I love it, for myself and for whoever else wants it, but there’s no way it would ever handle this, and yet, CCHR makes no distinctions between the proper and improper recipients for anti-psychotic medications.
Hmmm…hurting animals continually, talking a lot about killing people – pile on me if you like but notwithstanding his current size, if it walks like a sociopath and talks like a sociopath then that’s what it is. The kid gets pleasure out of making animals suffer now, and one day when he believes he’s big enough he’ll graduate to people. The Church of Scientology’s “handling” has worked so far solely from a PR standpoint. Scientology has no tech to handle the criminally insane, but now that this situation has come to light via Tony and Mike and their helpers, David Miscavige will need to confront the actual problem and work out a real handling that’s not just a PR band-aid. Attention will continue to paid.
Aquamarine: “Scientology has no tech to handle the criminally insane, but now that this situation has come to light via Tony and Mike and their helpers, David Miscavige will need to confront the actual problem and work out a real handling that’s not just a PR band-aid. Attention will continue to paid.”
Perhaps he’ll even find a cure for his own malady?
Good point, LDW. From a number of accounts, Sociopath Captain David Miscavige enjoys making people suffer physically, mentally and emotionally. Could Scientology tech help him? I don’t know, I’m not an auditor, and by all counts He doesn’t seem too enthusiastic about it for his own use.
LDW we can only hope Miscavige will find a cure for his own sociopathic malady, but alas, SP’s never think they are that way and cannot afford the luxury of self-inspection.
To get rid of an adopted son is morally very low; you don’t treat a human like if he were an object: “I don’t like him/her anymore, so, lets ship him/her somewhere else.”
Yes, morally degraded people and, irregardless of the many millions they may have, their souls are rotten; rather, these type of individuals are really rotten. Despicable is a minor adjective to qualify such actions and Charmaine may have her stats up, but her future will be a disgraceful one. It sucks to be Duggan, Charmaine and/or Miscavige.
My first glance at Norman Benson’s certificate I thought it said 1 DEAD. Oops! My mis-dupe, I guess I’m not Clear, lol. That cert. is decidely unimpressive for the High Honor of being a Guarantor of the “religion” that’s going to salvage this sector of the galaxy. Heck, I got a cert. for completing the Comm Course at Stevens Creek in the 80’s that had my name in gold calligraphy lettering and was quite fancy. No time for such silly things now I suppose, salvaging the galaxy is serious business.
Seriously, Dave B? You had your name in gold calligraphy? Dude, you scored! Mine was in crayon…I guess I was a down stat.
If your certificate was signed with a color that could only be found in the 64-pack of Crayolas, you were upstat. If your certificate was signed in a color you could get in the 12-pack, you were downstat. Of course, you did grow up po’ white trash, so maybe you never saw the 64-pack of Crayolas. You need to go out today and experience the joy of coloring something in Burnt Umber.
Gosh, Espiando, you really do know me! Finally SOMEONE understands me! And, yes, I never did get the 64-pack of crayolas as we were much to poor.
But being around you and the other posters makes me feel, ALMOST good enough…
I hope this isn’t off topic:
Why hasn’t John Travolta flow a plane load of VM’s to Libreia
to give Ebola patients touch assists.
Your Do Good image is just slip sliding away Davey,
Get with the program,your the COB, let no catastrophe get past your
money angles and dangles.
Jose, Do you really want a bunch of VM’s to catch Ebola? (They are not Hazmat trained.)
Either David Miscavige personally leads the charge, or he publicly declares that the combined OT-7 and 8 ‘s will solve the problem from a safe distance.
1984,
You must have missed the Freewinds ‘How to make your postulates stick’ convention. The folks at the top of the bridge don’t have to worry about that lowly humanoid stuff of keeping a safe distance. They just decide they aren’t part of the contagion aberration and glow it right.
If a problem develops, well, it is likely because the losers have not availed themselves of Dave’s new GAG II tech and they deserve what they get.
Yo Dave,
New marketing idea for you. Offer up your best newly retrained OTs, give them some TWTH booklets (you can put an ebola virus photo on the cover) and send them to Liberia to open up a new Ideal Morgue where you can demonstrate how wonderful, benevolent and good becoming a cult member can be.
Cooper,
Well that’s one way to literally “clear the planet”.
Send the Freewinds there as a ‘Hospital’ ship. (Great PR, and they can offload it at the same time.)
Uhh…..this one is butt ugly on several accounts: business-like web involving the boy’s care or lack thereof.
But since that has already been commented upon the focus here is on the 3rd dynamic implications.
So this Bob Duggan (Tony Ortega’s post was UNUSUALLY tame as opposed to his normal style) makes his
money with pharmaceuticals. especially with the legal drug IMBRUVICA where he became a whale.
See http://www.pharmacyclics.com and http://www.imbruvica.com. In that latter it states “Data are not yet available if it improves survival or symptoms” and “It is not known if IMBRUVICA is safe and effective in children”. Check out the list of side effects which is rather looooong.
http://www.ndist.com/imbruvia-drug.htm gives the ingredients of IMBRUVICA; amongst other substances it contains ‘black ink’ (huh?) and Sodium laureth (or lauryl) sulfate, a cheap sustance in many cosmetic products as well as cheap household cleaner as it is a foaming agent similar to soap. Health-conscious people make sure to stay away from.
Pharmacyclics Mission Statement states “improve quality of life and increase duration of life….”
You be the judge if this is truly improving quality of life!
The best for last: IMBRUVICA being manufactured by Johnson & Johnson in the USA, a company known and punished in 2013 by the court to pay 2.2 Billion $s for their illegal marketing practices used with the drug Rispardal.
This could turn out to be a hell of a lot more embarrassing and costly than being found out with the wrong
woman in bed. I’d call this ‘dangerous liaisons’.
David Miscavige sure has some strange bed fellows.
It turns my guts to see that current Scientology, respectively the Co$ now supports Pharmaceuticals.
Mike, was there ever actual proof that David Miscavige got kick backs from Elly Lilly?
Greta
I dont even know where the weird idea came form that Miscavige got kickbacks from Eli Lilly? It’s ridiculous and it didnt happen.
What did happen is that the lawsuit was settled and they paid money.
Thanks Mike,
Good to know.
Greta
Eli Lilly paid an out if court settlement to COS?
Am I understanding this correctly Mike?
What was that for?
For a lawsuit — it is widely reported.
Hey Zephyr,
You do not no what you are talking about. You peruse a couple of websites and all of a sudden you are an expert on Tyrosine-kinase inhibitors and are able to cast some sort of connotations that Bob Duggan and the companies involved are somehow evil and corrupt peddling poison. The Duggans may or may not be nice people, the companies involved may or not be ethical from your viewpoint, they all may well make a crap load of money but that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual efficacy of the drug and wether people should use it. As with most of this class of drug the list of potential side effects is extensive up to and including death! But the choice usually is death or take the pill in the hope of either some extended life or most likely improved quality of life. The result of some serious studies show that it does have efficacy, may not be a cure but does have some effectiveness, enough to get approval . What would you choose? Whats a “health conscious” person staying away from? Certain Death!
What a load of bullshit from a truly ignorant person. Next time at least have some passing knowledge of the subject you want to comment on.
It’s not surprising that the drug has severe side effects : it’s a chemo agent.
The active molecule in it is ibrutinib – that’s a tyrosine kinase inhibitor – it provokes apoptosis (cell suicide) in cancer cells because of the way they metabolize sugar. The rest of the ingredients is just boring formulation.
BTW, just because something is found in cleaners or industry does not mean it is toxic. The most toxic substance in that medication is probably ibrutinib – again, that’s something that’s expected of a substance that is able to kill cancer cells. If you need a chemo drug and from your health consciousness “stay away” from it, you get the natural outcome of cancer, i.e., death, statistically sooner than you do if you take the treatment. I have seen people take the “natural” approach to cancer… and they had neither quantity nor quality of life. When the total mass of the tumors begins to exceed your body’s capacity to handle its waste, side effects from chemo start looking like happy memories.
Developing a tyrosine kinase inhibitor as a chemo agent is something I thought about a few years ago, when a paper about an old, old tyrosine kinase inhibitor was published. I’m not very surprised someone finally did it. Duggan had nothing to do with the drug’s development, he basically just wrote a check.
I hope these poor chemists were not forced into sciloonery to keep their jobs. Bob knows the job market in pharmaceutical chemistry is crappy these days (that’s the big reason why I changed fields), and some would probably have agreed to it to avoid flipping burgers for a living.
Wow….I wonder how much more underhanded, sordid
crap like this is floating around in the hallowed halls of the COS?? Soon Mike you will have
to follow Thursday Funnies with Friday Horror Stories.
Good lord this mess could be made into a movie…..and probably win an Oscar.
It appears from all that I have read on Ortega, Back in Comm and here the only
loser in all of this is Junior.
Kudos to David Miscavige, Bob Duggan and Robyn/Carol Hogarth.
We are all very proud of you for your tireless efforts to ensure planet
earth becomes the most honest, ethical planet in the universe. Keep putin’
up those buildings guys!
Don’t forget to commend them for their untiring efforts to build families Potpie.
It’s another one of their bleats that really incenses me.
They are so smarmily superior about how “they have the tech” to create happy and loving relationships and families.
I never did understand why they keep advertising their 1950s ideal when the reality is so visibly different. Even when I was in. This is not a smart ass in hindight comment.
Yes they are quite smarily superior about their ability to
create happy and loving relationships and families.
This situation IS their “Tech”.
But boy do they all look so beautiful on stage
Smiling Overts.
I feel your anger Mike and agree with you 100%.
“They are so smarmily superior about how “they have the tech” to create happy and loving relationships and families”.
Their definition of a happy family is one that bathes in the Koolaid, believes everything they are told and question absolutely nothing.
Oh and hates us out on “the fringe”
Besides the obvious, moving mental or physical “problems” as far as possible from Lisa McPherson’s room at Ft Homicide and David Miscavige’s precious legal behind, there may be another explanation.
In Florida the Baker Act is still extant. Anyone threatening to harm himself or harm others can be brought in for observation, which I believe is still for 72 hours. Imagine what he might have to spill to the doctors!
For those with first hand knowledge, The Florida Dept of Children and Family Services has a hotline to report matters Exactly like this one. Well, maybe not exactly because Scientology tales are usually too much to be believed. The U.S. phone number is: 1-800-962-2873. You don’t have to give your name. The website where you can get much information first if you like is
http://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/abuse-hotline
and it is Not just for cases of abuse. Fax report line is: 1-800-914-0004
I sincerely do not want to see another child’s name on the long, long list of Scientology tragedies.
The description of the boy worries me. Don’t be fooled by his age. That he repeatedly threatens to kill and describes how he will do it is really disturbing. That adults are being frightened by the behavior of a child means that the problem is huge. He needs real handling, not the haphazard care that he is getting. Good manners are not indicative of any real recovery. He may just be getting smarter about how he manipulates people. He will kill eventually, if this isn’t addressed, and will end up in prison or dead. The Duggan’s are probably acting in their best interest and the family in South Africa are clearly out of their league. The Church of Scientology practitioners are not equipped to deal with insanity at this level.
+1 RK. You have a good grasp of the boy’s situation.
The child sounds like a badly handled Indigo child, like so many of the others.
I agree and it sickens me that a huge percentage of this is due to his maltreatment. Even if he has some organic problems that we can’t know about, his treatment isn’t likely to make things better, only worse.
Violent and Abusive Scientology Juvenile Delinquent Sent from US to Africa:
http://otviiisgrrr8.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/violent-and-abusive-scientology-juvenile-delinquent-sent-from-us-to-africa/
Seems like the cult is now indulging in child trafficking. …..what next?????
With the Miscarriage, the sky is not even a limit. Whatever it takes and whatever HE wants.
I perceive that details of this and other stories we have not even learned about as yet will make our collective skins crawl.
Mark my words , this is going to end badly.
I just read the story on the SA Blog which I should have done first. With all that money going into Hogarth’s bank account used to hire minders for the boy and OT levels, it could be spent on proper care, meaning therapy for the boy. This boy is threatening to kill people in detail and they keep looking the other way and pretend that ‘applying tools’ will make him all better and his homicidal thoughts and threats will magically go away.
We don’t even know what was going on in the Duggan’s home in the U.S. but it must have been pretty horrible.
This is so irresponsible on both the Duggan’s and Hogarth’s part. The Duggans just want to offload the boy and his issues and the Hogarth’s are money motivated. At the center, is the CoS. Meanwhile, that young man is growing up fast. I hope he gets some real help soon, out of this living situation and away from all of these people.
These poor kids. They’ve been taken from broken homes, had their names changed and then they’re treated like pets or cars that you pass on when they stop being cute or fashionable. (I don’t condone that treatment of pets, btw. ) Then they’re re-homed again halfway around the world with strangers that hire an endless procession of nannies and drivers. This is the recipe for an insecure, untrusting and damaged child. I hope someone can help them before it’s too late for the children.
This is outrageous and as I already stated on the South African site, if this isn’t illegal, I don’t know what is. This doesn’t violate 501c3 tax exempt status? Really? Than what the F–K does! Give money to make an org Ideal than THAT org sends money to someone who you have offloaded your child to?
I am disgusted beyond belief.
If I’m reading ‘Back in Comm’ correctly, there are 3 Duggan children who’ve been sent off to South Africa. I cannot imagine the feelings of abandonment those children would be feeling or the anxiety those who remain at home would feel. My heart goes out to the children and I hope they ALL eventually get the proper care and help they deserve. May those who caused them problems or perpetuated problems or tried to hide problems also be given what they deserve.
hmmm. Maybe the Joburg question, “Have you ever had anything to do with a baby farm?” is not so wild afterall.
+1
I am sure they tried to audit this poor kid, probably some CCHs and it drove him insane. Nothing will drive a child more nuts than “Look at that wall” “walk over to that wall” ‘touch that wall” “turn around”.
This may not be a particularly popular position, but if the anecdotes about “Junior” told on backincomm are anywhere close to the truth, then I would be afraid for those around him, and would recommend they consider very carefully what kind of person they may be dealing with.
It still makes no sense to me whatsoever why the Duggan’s chose this particular solution – do they really believe the anti-psych rhetoric?
Dollar – I believe the Duggan’s DO believe the anti-psych rhetoric to the fiber of their being. You’re seeing it played out with Junior.
Pepper, this is in response to your comment about Jett Travolta….I agree with everything you said, but would add one small thing. The Travoltas had every right to keep Jett’s diagnosis private. What they did not have a right to do was to mislead, or right out lie, to the public abourt Kawasaki’s Syndrome. I very clearly remember watching Kelly Preston on a talk show speaking about the dangers of chemical carpet cleaner and what it did to her son. While it is good information to have, it was not the cause of her son’s condition. She went out of her way to come up with that excuse, which just (IMO) further stigmatizes austism (austism is so bad it can’t be discussed, I have to make up a fake excuse to cover up the autism)
They are Miscavige’s biggest financial supporters. There is no way in hell he would allow them to get psych help for a “problem child”.
This kid has had the very worst start in life. That has to have an effect. When the cult scriptures can’t fix it and you are a major scilon celeb, what do you do? Ship him off to distant South Africa, hoping it is removed enough from the major scilon centres for the story to be buried. BIG mistake. The internet makes all of us next door neighbors! Davey just doesn’t seem to get that!!
I’m not so sure. We tend to see things in black and white in scientology, when in actual fact we do know that anything goes if it serves “the group”. I know of a lady who was on staff at a Class V org, treasury. She offloaded her kids onto a relative so she could serve the cause, and those kids later ended up in psychiatric care, taken away by government authorities. They returned to their foster mother at some point, and I do not have all the details, but I do not believe this ever affected the treasury staff member.
So there you go. I just do not get this. If there is a Sherman tank around here somewhere, it hasn’t surfaced yet (at least not for me).
DollarMorgue, As far as shipping their child to SA, etc., there is no Sherman tank as you say, but the underbelly to this story is disgusting and I REALLY do believe is a 501c3 violation. If I donate money to All Children’s Hospital as a charitable donation, that hospital cannot turn around and give my child free healthcare in that hospital because I made a big donation. That’s a violation. If the Duggans donate to the Pretoria Org and bail it out of its problems to the tune of millions (and take the charitable donation I might add), that Org cannot turn around and PAY the Hogarths for taking care of the Duggan child. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s a violation.
The human trafficking part of this story is as Mike said, if not illegal it is very immoral, as well as many other aspects to this story.
I feel for the child and hope he finds stability and help in his life.
McCarran, I see. I had (perhaps wrongly) assumed the money from Pretoria org was his cut for cheerleading at fundraising events.
The Duggans are fundamentalist Scientologists who would never take a child to a child behavioral or developmental therapist or psychologist, which the boy obviously needs. Violent outbursts is one thing and hurting animals is quite another as this typically graduates into hurting people. The child is disturbed and needs professional help but is trapped within a church that prides itself on having all the solutions.
Carol Hogarth had some despicable things to say about the boy, calling him “a little spoilt rich boy” and people who are adopted in general, “disastrous adopted adults I’ve had the misfortune to have to try and deal with in my life.” She thinks that people who’ve been adopted are ‘damaged goods’ and a psychologically disturbed pre-teen boy is a “little spoilt rich boy”, who just needs the “power of using the right tools from an early age.” She thinks everything is great because the boy is becoming more well mannered. Ted Bundy was very well mannered too.
Wake up Carol – the boy is hurting animals now, so whatever “tools” were used either didn’t work or are not appropriate for his case. Making him polite isn’t going to do the trick either.
This could very well come back to haunt her one day and the CoS too.
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s strikes me as another Jeremy Perkins scenario or Jett Travolta type tragedy in the making.
Jett Travolta was autistic and had a severe seizure disorder. He was not psychotic, violent, mentally ill, etc. His parents made sure that he had the best care possible and never sent him away to be taken care of by strangers but did so in their own home. He was under a doctor’s care and was taking seizure medication, which wasn’t working for him. He died from the outcome of a seizure. There was a lot of scrutiny over his death because Jett’s parents kept his medical condition and disability hidden from the public at large. There are laws in the US which protect a person’s right to medical privacy and they executed that right for their son. End of story.
Jeremy Perkins however, is another story. Jeremy was severely mentally ill and for quite a long time – years. He never received any professional help. For over a year prior to killing his mother, a class VI auditor and OT VII, Jeremy lived in terror and couldn’t sleep. He had hallucinations and sat in a chair all night in the hallway outside his bedroom because “aliens were on the ceiling” of his bedroom. He was delusional, hearing voices and hallucinating for years and he was frightened. His fundamentalist family could not confront the depth of his problems and Ellie Perkins ‘treated’ Jeremy with vitamins, right up to the day she was murdered by her son.
After Jeremy was in custody and treated for his severe, chronic paranoid schizophrenia, he came to the full realization of what he had done. He told his doctor that if he had been on medication like he was now, he never would have killed his mother. Schizophrenics are not typically homicidal or violent. They are usually pretty quiet and keep to themselves. Jeremy Perkins was an extreme case and he had the misfortune of being in the CoS, along with the rest of his immediate family.
I’m not advocating that everyone goes on psych drugs here but in acute, extreme cases it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Especially if it prevents a murder like the Perkins’ one. Jeremy will spend his life in a psychiatric hospital now. He once had a chance to avoid that.
It already has come back to haunt her. Fostering an adopted child for a large amount of money? Doesn’t look great in anybody’s life story.
No joke, Pepper. Carol Hogarth is Bonehead Level 40 on the Moron Scale for those comments about the spoiled rich kid and adopted people. I wouldn’t let her raise my rhesus monkey. The kid isn’t going around threatening violence because he was raised by rich schmucks. It’s because he’s mentally disturbed. But then how would a bubble-dwelling Scientologist recognize the difference?
Dude, you gotta monkey? Cool.
Nah. I made that up. Monkeys are awesome though.
Totally awesome.
“I’m a monkey! I’m a monkey! I’m a monkey!” Mick Jagger.
Rhesus monkeys are great, apart from the giant teeth and how they get aggressive when you make eye contact with them and the way they can carry herpes B which is fatal to humans.
Seems to me that, for a true believer, whether or not another is adopted should be irrelevant. Isn’t it a Scientology belief that, since we live lifetime after lifetime, who your parents are in one lifetime should not matter so much? It’s not how his birth parents treated him that makes him act a certain way, it’s the BTs accumulated over the millennia. This child’s behavior should improve once he is sec checked and audited again and again. Just like Jeremy Perkins was not suffering from schizophrenia, he had a yeast infection and I am assuming he also had unaddressed BTs covering him. It sounds like the Hogwarts want to blame his behavior on both his birth and adoptive parents, yet, doesn’t that contradict Scientology teachings? This is a genuine question on my part. I reserve all snark for now…..
No doubt Scientology realizes that a good upbringing in a Scientology family (with both Mom and Dad) will greatly benefit the child in the long run. Scientology is always looking out for itself, I have no idea whether they think unaudited body thetans are more harmful in the long run than being foisted off to be raised by someone outside the family.
The boy may have been autistic, or labeled ADHD or maybe just a rambunctious pre teen acting his age and the older couple didn’t know how to cope with that. Instead of playing the hand they were dealt, the church helps them shunt him across continents to get rid of him to make life easier for the whales. Despicable! They treated a human being like he was a stock to be dumped and got out of.
Amazing intel, Mike. Is it known whether the shunt of this kid’s meat-sack (my sarcasm) out of the Duggan household to the SA couple entailed an actual legal re-adoption, or do the Duggans still hold the official adoptive parents title? Enquiring Indie minds want to know.
Aquamarine – I have been in comm with the child’s father and he said he was always under the impression that his arrangement with the Duggan’s was an “open adoption” (I don’t know what this means legally in the USA). He claims that he was supposed to be regularly updated and kept abreast of the child’s progress etc, but this only happened for about a year after he was taken by the Duggans and all contact stopped when the child was about 3 years old.
He had no idea that his son had been sent over to and is now living in South Africa, and based on the fact that “V” is in this country on a holiday visa only as opposed to a temporary resident permit, (which would suggest a more permanent arrangement is in progress), I would assume that no legally approved adoption or foster arrangement exists between the Duggans and the Hogarths.
In this country, if any adoption is to take place, Social Welfare has to be notified whereupon they grant a temporary adoption pending full investigations into the prospective parents, their suitability and ability to care for the child, what their lifestyle is like, where the child will be schooled or educated and any other requirements necessary for providing a child with a stable and loving home. Thereafter, the adoptive parents remain under regular “supervision” by Social Welfare until they are satisfied that the child is happy and flourishing and no further inspections are necessary. At this point, the adoption becomes official and is ratified legally.
I sincerely doubt that any of the above has taken place between the interested parties, and I suspect that the relevant authorities both in the USA and South Africa are not even aware of this situation.
David Miscaviage basic staff hat:
1)Get whales to adopt as many kids as possible.
2) Have the kids raised inside the cult bubble by the parents or some other public as needed. When they come of age have them join the SO.
3) As the aging whale parents drop their bodies, be sure the kids inherit the proceeds. Have the SO kids donate those inheritances to the International Association of Sociopaths.
4) Keep the kids in a low profile job such as dumpster cleaning so the story never gets out.
5) Carry on as though the most important work in the world is being done by the most ethical people to be found anywhere in the universe which would be none other than Mr. Asslicker Himself, Cult leader extraordinaire, Dave (the dildo) Miscavage
Cindy – the boy is not autistic and I wouldn’t label him ADHD either. He does however have serious behaviour problems which have rendered him unfit to attend a “normal” school, and when he got to this country there were numerous incidents of real malevolent behaviour, mostly relayed to me by people who had first-hand experience with this child and a few personal observations of my own.
I believe he has improved somewhat, but I haven’t been in touch with nor seen him since my expulsion from the church and my sister disconnecting from me. The only current data I have is from those who are UTR and in some way connected to this situation.
The circumstances under which this child came into the world and then being adopted by extremely wealthy people living with 5 other siblings in lavish opulence for most of his youth only to then be torn away from this environment and taken to another country to live with total strangers on his own must have been extremely destabilising for this child. Any wonder he “acted out” as he did. Some of the stories would make your hair stand on end, but I don’t want to divulge this information in a public forum due to the sensitivity of the whole situation.
This is like a good “Peyton Place” story. I can”t wait as the plot thickens.
This is worse. This is TOTALLY disgusting.
Heh you fucks from OSA monitoring this site. Ask David Miscavige if I give him a million dollars if I can have my son back. How about if I make Valley Ideal?
The plot sickens.
The plot sickens.
Sorry, I stopped too soon. The plot sickens with extra amount of slime thrown in for good measure.
Back in the 80’s something similar on a lesser scale occurred in LA. Ronit Sorocco was married to her husband before Tom Sorocco, to a fellow FSM, Bob Kaye. They had a child together. The child was born with Downe’s Syndrome. Ronit refused to take responsibility for having to raise a special needs retarded child and so she divorced Bob immediately. Bob was left with figuring out what to do with the Downe’s Syndrome kid. He ended up putting him in an institution and bearing the cost of it all on his own with no help from Ronit. She ran off scott free to marry someone else, which she did. And even putting him in an institution by Bob seemed to me to be shunting him off when so many other families raise their Downe’s Syndrome kids themselves.