Have you read battle field earth cover to cover? Or did you only read part of it. Ultimate bragging right at an event in my opinion. That book is only trumped by the OECs.
Mike,
I have seen your 3 seasons on Netflix and I whole heartedly want to thank you and Leah Remini for all that you both have done trying to expose Scientology. I also want to thank all those who decided to come onto the show and tell their story. I can honestly say I was drawn to the advertising of Dianetics back in the 80’s…. I was brought up as a Catholic though it never felt completely right. I can still Thank the Lord today, I am now a Christian.. baptist. I will admit at that time in my life, where I was having a rocky relationship with my stepmother and something didn’t feel right as a Catholic that the advertisement of Dianetics was very appealing to me. If I had met a Scientologist at that time in my life…… I’m just so glad I hadn’t!! I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that they are getting away with being considered a non-profit organization-“Church” and don’t pay any taxes. I also can’t wrap my head around the fact about how a child and an adult are placed together during audit training and the adult is a sex offender!!! There’s a lot more I can’t wrap my head around!!! I just love what you’re doing! What can I do?
William Kilmartin, are you related to Jim Kilmartin? I think that is his name. He was married to a SO wife named Pam Kilmartin who died. Any relation to you? I’d like to know what Jim Kilmartin is doing or if he’s still drinking the KA.
I was also told why so many Scientologist’s smoke – is that LRH “said” that we lived around volcanoes on the Whole Track…of course, the Xenu story was a missed with hold by the cult leader and the evil cult.
You don’t have to graduate from high school, but if you join the Sea Org early, they will arrange a GED from a diploma farm so that you can be exempt from those pesky child-labor laws!
Out of all of these, the most disturbing for me is the permission and frequently the outright encouragement of Scientology parents for their kids to drop out of high school. This effectively puts them in the demographic of the poor and disadvantaged in this country. Its really a shame. They go to “work” in an Class V org and stay dependent upon their parents. They live like underage children well into their 30s and even 40s, totally supported and sheltered, fed and clothed by Mommy and Daddy. Some times I pity them for being so brainwashed and clueless and some days I’m contemptuous. This is a contempt day.
Sadly, this is all true. I started smoking around age 12 or 13 because that’s what we Scientology kids did. I didn’t have to finish high school, instead I joined staff (before they banned under 18, under 18 was Sea Org only). Instead I was allowed to do Student Hat instead of school. That was the “legal workout” …. Yes, I was interrogated repeatedly. To the tune of 30k or more. And while some of it was therapeutic, that is admitting to something I did that was wrong and then taking responsibility for it, probably 20k was spent on trying to convince these asshats that I didn’t have any more blackmail for them to hold onto. And yes, cult was a very bad word. And yes, the OT levels and Ls were very secret. And yes the Life History one fills out in order to get onto the OT levels, or staff, or Sea Org, etc. – and you do have to update it often – is filled with more blackmail material. This is one of the key docs someone from OSA or HCO will use to find you should you ever blow. Or if they decide to try to get to your comm lines, which you list out, in order to destroy them. I’ve read countless others, is it really necessary to put how many times you’ve masturbated? Or every single sexual act starting from birth? Only if they want material they can use to blackmail or embarrass you with later. And yes, if you do have a real mental health issue, then you are out-ethics. Until you are type 3. Then you disappear. I’ve seen plenty of them go. I’ve seen none of them return.
Presses against my tranquility, remembering how I owed money to their private credit union, a loan I got in order to pay for Life Repair, which I needed in order to become a Staff member, which gave me a job that worked me whenever I was not actually eating or sleeping and paid me about $12 per WEEK (I worked more hours than that in a typical day, which I round out to about 17) half of which had to go back towards paying that loan, which was less than the accumulating interest, pushing me further into the red every statement, statements they never actually sent me, kept nearly as confidential as OT Three.
Anyway, that was my reward for being a passionately devoted scn-gist.
Amazing, that I never really realized I was being had. Totally lost, and never knew it, all along the way on… the path to Total Freedom.
Let me just wrap this post with the simple statement:
BRAINWASHING IS A REAL THING, and
It can happen to anyone. Especially kids because they don’t know they have the right to question authority.
And scientologists don’t think to question “The Source”. LRH did all he could, every form of manipulation, to make sure of it, to prevent just that sort of thought.
Thank all that is good in the world, that he failed.
Oh, and I do remember finding myself in the auditing chair being asked if I ever had a thought against L. Ron Hubbard.
I was shocked.
And the auditor kept at it, too, asking that question all sorts of different ways, each time just flooring me.
And I never, still never, thought rationally about it – thought that, hey, this is LRH orchestrating the questions, like all the questions, and don’t you have to be categorically paranoid to insist on that question…
to EVERYBODY, all the time? The answer there is yes, clinically. But, again I never thought about that, or, “Why…?” Or, maybe I did and then didn’t want to be guilty, omg, that is a thought against LRH!
LIABILITY, was a condition of existence all too real, always hanging over our heads, for us scientologists.
You know, a supervisor was never “wrong”, or held accountable, if he decided you needed to get bumped down and sent to Ethics… his nose bleed that morning could be enough justification… to make your already miserable existence much, much worse. And we were always reminded that we were wrong, a liability, if we did not report other scientologists…FOR ANYTHING.
That puts this org into a certain fitting “Condition of Existence” of its own, a permanent personality trait, if you will. Another point I always missed, being on the inside and under the spell.
Hi blue moon, Your comment is so real to me and I thank you for some observations of goings on that can still haunt me at times.The loyalty to all things Ron to the point of literally being under the spell of his con and not able to see it.I have been there too.Those of us here who decided to escape for whatever reason are the Sparks which will continue to feed the Fire that will keep growing.Scientology has done too much damage,particularly with disconnection, fair game policy,sec checking and after my time but feel it is relevant IAS.The lies can keep coming but at some juncture the cos will trip up.Their past,present and future will catch them up.I feel the Internet is so powerful a tool for us and here the cos promotes CFing like it is some ninth wonder of the planet! Same as the hundreds of times I did it in SO,minus movies and pizza.lol.You always have great insight.XO Ann B
Oh, I’m sure Sunny is talking about the young HCO staff. It’s very common for the young 2nd gens to be recruited into HCO, and you’ll have a 17-year old barking orders he hardly understands himself so relies on harsh “intention”
Hi Anon,Good to meet you. Oh lord, I thought I had it bad with a certain superior barking orders at me in SO-Asho F 42 years ago.But the young HCO staff you describe it really is sad. ” Harsh Intention ” has many facets and for those youngsters recruited so early into SO the pressure to create any type of stat as long as it is up must be stressful indeed.Of course I had that pressure too,but today dm seems intent on instilling fear from the get-go toward any SOer who displeases him for anything.When I was in I was definitely of the mind that Ron was the greatest leader ever and I felt privileged to be in SO.Three years later my experience in SO shifted to the KRC triangle with a vengeance.Funny how that happens! Always Ann B.
Yes, what Anon said. Elaborate: Children in Scn and the Sea Org are not children in the eyes of Scn. There are only thetans. Laws are a bother and they do what they can to get around them. Especially things like pesky labor laws. They don’t comply with them, they find ways around them.
But also you find young Sea Org members, because they have done nothing to out-qualify themselves yet, posted on posts that are executive posts (but only the very young qualify for them because they don’t have massive life histories with black marks on them yet). And so, for this reason, age means nothing in the Sea Org. It has nothing to do with ability or experience.
And so you may end up with a child as young as 12 giving you orders that you have to follow. They are senior to you, and no matter your age, education, etc, they still are superior to you and the orders must be followed or ethics and sec checking for you.
So yes, you can have a 12 year old telling you that you may not go to bed until XYZ are done. Yes, this 12 year old has just forced you to stay up all night to complete something.
Ah, yes – the screaming teenaged girls of the CMO. I guess the CMO has the first pick of the child recruits, because they sure seem to have a lot of screaming kiddies among their ranks.
Sunny,
What you’ve just detailed is what I considered completely unreal – nuts, actually, about the Sea Org and its policies, and was the main reason I never joined.
To tell you the truth, I almost did. Gulp. But, you know where i grew up us proud scientologists where taught that Sea Org was the elite core of recognized A-list recruits.
There was no question.
But, after getting the boot for foul reason, I ran away a second time, first being from mom and dad… So, keeping it all pretty much secret I went out in the world and pretty soon I found myself being critical and enjoying it…. I said they want just absolutely everything and it isn’t worth it. And of course I was right. Double rotten deal is what you actually get, because at that point and FOR 30-odd YEARS i kept the delusion that tech was tech, that Hubbard was god’s gift to man and and as long as I could hold the lessons, the tech in my mind, I was going to be ok. Basically, I forgot about it. That only took a few years I suppose, but for those few years I would have real dreams, nightmares that I was caught back in there. And being treated very skeptically now because… oh my god. Horrible horrible dreams. Skip to 2013 Mike and Marty fishing out back at what turns out to be Marty’s new safehouse and the rest is history. I was a fool no more. And I don’t get vulgar. Just don’t want to wake up all of sudden regretting it. Gripes and gripes I swear I don’t even get mad, or guilty about that or anything if I can help it. Point. Is. what? O yeah, that Hubbard does win my unmitigated indignation. And, significant factor number, two? I was just lucky, that’s all. Had they provided a taxi, I would have been in, lost at sea which a visionary, wayward Captain and forever a Billion years to go. Gad. And Miscavige, the boy, is just a worm. Undignified Guys like me, we can get close the edge, dangerously so. I survived, and now… If dear old Dave would like to speak? I beg you and as for the rest of you I say please, I beg your pardon.
9. The term “CSP” still makes you smile because it means you get to see your parents. Maybe.
(CSP- Clean Ship Program. This was the 3 hours on Sunday morning or thereabouts where you got to do your laundry, clean your berthing and such. But not if you were “downstat”.
As someone who was raised outside Scientology (then stupidly joined, but wisely left after 16 years), the plight of kids born into Scientology wasn’t a subject I’ve thought a lot about. This post is an eye-opener … and I’m sure a similar list could be written for SO kids. Painful stuff.
Agreed Janis. That article hit way too close to home. I must say though that in our era and at least with me, I never wrote KR’s on family or friends. We weren’t squealers that the DM version of SO members are.
Not addressing mental health issues using professional care, with my family, has been the most devastating and lasting problem I experienced after leaving the cult. It was hard to shake the “psychiatry is evil” lie that LRH drove down our throats. Taking vitamins and doing locationals doesn’t handle mental breakdowns. Look at McPherson – the cult killed her.
Of all the groups I’ve been involved in or with Scientology rates as the worst for looking after their own – they don’t and won’t. It’s as though the group actively goes out of its way to indoctrinate its members to treat their own as the greatest threat they have… fucking nuts!
This cult has a thing about sex. I mean, thoroughly detailed sex. Everything you’ve done. Down to the smallest detail. And, do you know what they do with this info? They read it! They let others read it. And then they laugh about what they just read! Sick fucks. Seriously, they’re sick fucking people.
Seriously, I agree they are sick fucks. It’s their highest level of internal entertainment rating just below stealing every dollar you have or can ever get credit for… geezers – how in the world do such good and able people get sucked down to that sort of shit!
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions hey?
After hours David Mscavige would sip scotch and read aloud to a select few
Tom Cruises sex habits,laughing out loud at choice parts. When the COB laughs everyone laughs.
There is a well-known incident when Caligula (Emperor of Rome) gave a banquet. Suddenly, Caligula starts laughing and laughing, and others at the banquet laugh along with him. When asked what was he laughing about, Caligula said, “I just realized that I could have anyone in this room killed”. Put a little chill into the festivities.
Imagine for a few seconds what DM would be like if there were no such thing as the FBI, and Tony Ortega wasn’t around to expose him……..now try not to scream…….AAROOUGH!!! Oops. Fail. That was not a scream of laughter.
Actually, OSD, I don’t think they really get the chance to get much fucking. If single, forbidden. If married, your mate may well be on another continent and the parting may well last for years. All at the pleasure of the czerch, of course.
Hi OSD. 🙂 I never understand that. What is the point of suppressing natural human urges? My friend, an ex-Jehova’s Witness says it’s the same for them, it’s considered shameful.
I was wondering if it’s a trademark of cults, and they prohibit it as another way to get members used to being controlled. It seems like cults tend to regulate sleep, eating, sex, relationships with family members, or anyone… also what you are allowed to read, or watch on TV or internet, and restrict access to everything ‘not approved’. I guess their rationale is, it makes one ‘more focused’ on the work to be done, or possibly ‘more pure’, ? but I’m leaning towards, they want to condition members to follow orders, and to become accepting of being controlled.
McCarran do Catholic people have all those restrictions too? On what you can eat, how long you can sleep, what you can watch on TV, etc.? I know some religions are stricter than others, but I don’t know the specifics for Catholics. I have heard that there is a lot of ‘ritual’ and ceremony in Catholicism, and I also know that a lot of religions are similar in that they have types of prayers for certain occasions, set times to pray, a standard manner of prayer, use of symbols, prayer beads, religious artifacts, etc.
It always seemed to me that Scientology was more a system of thoughts and practices rather than a group focused on religious beliefs. Or actually, it kind of combines these things when members get into the OT levels.
As a lapsed Catholic and a veteran of a Catholic high school education, I can help with some of this.
What you can eat? Well, there’s the thing about no meat on Friday during Lent, but pre-Vatican II, it was a lot more restrictive (like no meat on Friday all year, and way back in the Middle Ages, it was no meat on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays, during Lent, and during certain feast periods).
No restrictions on sleep or TV watching. Certain books were banned by the Church, but that was eliminated a while back, since no one paid attention to the list.
The ritual and ceremony is mostly in the Mass, not in individual observance. It’s actually somewhat attractive, especially if you live in a poverty-stricken area/era.
Prayers for certain occasions? Yeah, there are. Readings from the Bible and certain mentions during the Mass are governed by the time of year and whether there’s a certain period of observance like Lent or Advent. You have the occasional prayer to a patron saint of something (like if you had the plague or feared getting the plague, you prayed to St. Roch, and there’s always St. Jude, patron saint of lost causes).
Set times to pray are mostly for the priestly class. There are certain times of day that priests pray in front of the altar. It used to be that bells were rung at those times in order that civilians could join in. The rhythm of the day in monasteries up to present time is governed by the time when the monks are required to pray.
Use of symbols? Other than the crucifix or the occasional statue of a saint, no, not really.
Prayer beads? Yeah, we Catholics have rosaries, which actually set out a pattern of Our Fathers and Hail Maries to say, and you keep track of it by advancing your fingers on the beads. It’s sort of like cribbage, really. And it’s not mandatory. If you’ve been particularly sinful, the priest might assign you to say a rosary as penance after confession, but that’s considered a pretty strict penance these days.
And, oh, yeah, speaking of confession, it’s between you, your confessor, and God. The Seal Of The Confessional is totally binding. We all know what happens in Scientology.
Hingle McCringleberrysays
No, Catholics don’t have all of those restrictions, including the one mentioned. As far as religious stricture, especially among Western religions, every different brand has their own complete spectrum of believers, from the literally interpreting ultra-orthodox “Thou shalt NOT!” crowd to the laissez faire “everybody hug and be nice” group. As far as individually prohibited practices, you’re much more likely to get them out of a Baptist or a Mormon than a Catholic. Catholic worship is the most ritualized and structured of the main Christian denominations and all of the things you mentioned exist in some form in Catholicism. The Catholic belief system however, and how individual Catholic chose to conceptualize or understand the faith is pretty loose compared to the majority of other religions. You can fill a library with books on Catholic teachings, prayers, saints, liturgical ceremony, etc. and the truly mandatory stuff will fit on one page.
I Yawnalotsays
Hate to use Scientology think here but it seems to fit. It’s the only effect they can create after awhile. And since it’s common to just about everyone except the extreme nutcase it’s only a matter of time before any cult reduces itself to low life punishment activities and tighter control on the simple aspects of its members being human. It’s their last line of effect/control.
Perhaps this concept is the definitive demarcation line that defines a cult from, say a following or lighter type of religious engagement or other group pursuit.
I still find myself amazed at the difference between the 80s Scientology and the 90/s2000s + Scientology. If any exec forced that crap onto me in the 80s they’d need a dentist in a hurry or smelling salts first.
hi IYawnaLot, does it seem like rights were taken away little by little over the years until they ended up as they are now? As an outsider, that’s kind of how it appears to me. To cite one example of this, following the timeline, it looks like first Miscavige said no more family time allowed, next said no kids allowed to members in Sea Org, then he said no marriages to someone in another branch of the Org, then no marriages allowed in Sea Org at all. So it was a gradual removal of rights.
It seems like that’s how suppression starts, with a gradual removal of rights… I read the book “Night” by Elie Weisel which explains how in 1938 to 42-ish the Jewish people in Poland came to be removed to camps; first the authorities said they had to wear a gold star on their coats, then they were not allowed in certain shops, theaters, parks, etc., next they had to be off the streets after dark, then they were not allowed to own a shop, then they closed their synagogs, then their kids were not allowed to go to public schools, then they moved them to a 4 by 4 block radius, before finally they marched them to trains for evacuation… all little by little, in small steps, over a 2 year period of time. It’s this gradual erosion of rights, and people were thinking, no big deal, we can just wear the star no need to fight, then, it’s ok, so no going to shops after dark, or to movie theaters, no sense making a big fuss it will make it worse, then, well at least we can send our kids to our own schools, and still live in our own homes… but after a while, they were totally marginalized as it happened little by little.
So it seems like a tactic for control, to take away small rights little by little, until the person is used to being restricted, it then seems normal to be told what they are allowed to do. That’s what it seems like occurs when a group enforces arbitrary rules on what you can eat (rice and beans) when you can eat (30 minutes only at a particular time) or how much you can sleep, or whatever else that involves curtailing a person’s free will.
Yeah, that’s a pretty good summation of what happens in the real world. There is a lot of truth to “look don’t listen.”
In Scientology anyone with any ability with it at all was thrown out or had their life made a miserable hell by the exact or similar things you said in your post. Either way what you see today is a result of, not an evolution. Democracy, while flawed itself is always the first casualty to be buried alongside the truth with an asshole in charge.
TJ – good question. If I were you, I would study the history of the church in various religions. This has been going on for a centuries and began with the Puritans, I believe. Any religion shunning sexual acts post this era are merely copy-cats.
Puritans? As in the 17th century? St. Jerome (4th century Croatia) has those hedonists beat all hollow! Truth is, sexual “purity” has always been part of human society with “You can do X, but not Y.” a part of every culture, including our own.
To wit, in Ancient Greece, men could have affairs with teenaged boys, keep mistresses and thought pictures of penises made cute decorations, like a bowl of fruit. On the other hand, you couldn’t actually penetrate, and a woman not a prostitute caught so much as looking at a man not her husband or relative was stoned to death. Nowadays, women have sex fairly freely, but we think of a man who chooses to see socially or look at even a picture of a woman not his wife is “cheating”, and any middle-aged person having an affair with someone markedly younger than themselves is sick and abusive. In 19th century France, masturbation was bad, but visiting brothels was OK, despite the fact that they hadn’t found a way to treat syphilis yet. In some circles today lesbianism and motherhood are OK, but looking for men isn’t. Who’s right?
Scientology’s obsession with sex is just as much a reflection of mainstream 50’s culture as it is a control mechanism. As a Gen X’er, I found it almost comical how all the current sex ed books kept telling me self-pleasure was practically a sacrament while hearing from grown-ups that they stopped going to (mainstream) church when they found what they did in the bathtub was sinful, if not unhealthy. Talking about someone’s sex life, along with drugs, is the best way to discredit someone, despite the fact that almost everyone’s had a brush with one or the other.
If you see it from the point of view of someone who wants to control people’s lives, it has two benefits:
– First, like sleep de-privation and malnutrition, it adds to physiological stress. Physiological stress puts you in a more suggestible state, and therefore makes you easier to control. Physiological stressors add up, and often a destructive cult will use several of them synergetically. During “courses” or “seminars” for instance, you might be asked to withhold from drinking or peeing. Or, for smokers, from smoking. These things might seem like an annoyance, and of course you can go without them for some time. But together they take their toll on your ability to take rational decisions. It is the same for constantly unfulfilled sexual urges.
– Second, these are urges that almost any healthy individual has (with few exceptions). Making them a “sin” practically guarantees that every member, even the most dedicated, will have done at least something wrong. That something wrong can be used against them whenever they need to be coerced into doing something, or made to feel bad about themselves. If as a member of a cult you feel that you can never conform to the cult’s rules, don’t be surprised because they are explicitely designed (on purpose) so that this is in practice impossible.
Then the guys run to the bathroom or where ever to rub one out then they feel guilty followed by getting busted during a sec check followed by being put in lowers rinse and repeat. Oi Vey!
If you were an MAA by age 15.
Have worn an Ascot.
Can clean Asbestos from ships without a mask.
Build your own furniture.
Been Married 3 times
Dream of getting a GED by age 40.
10. Sea Org recruiters start stalking you from about age 11 because 2nd/3rd generation Scientologists are the only one brainwashed enough to willingly sign up and ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are saving the planet.
And for children you can add:
-plying is off purpose,;you have to do mest work to be able to confront and handle things in life.
-family – not important; what matters is the greatest good for the greatest # of dynamics so, if your parents don’t see you is because they are 24/7 serving scientology to save the planet.
Wow. Well then you’re a wog, have no clue and no way you could ever have been declared an SP. You’ve never been a Scientologist if you havent ever read it.
I heartily second the recommendation of The Lives of Others. There is one scene where a person is in a Stasi interrogation. When it is over and she has left the room, the guard comes in to remove the upholstered seat cover and bag it for the archives. This, I presume, was so that dogs could one day be given the scent to track if it ever became necessary.
“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain EMAILS or through CASUAL CONVERSATION. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov”
The Founding Fathers would be rigging the scaffolds already.
Have you read battle field earth cover to cover? Or did you only read part of it. Ultimate bragging right at an event in my opinion. That book is only trumped by the OECs.
Mike,
I have seen your 3 seasons on Netflix and I whole heartedly want to thank you and Leah Remini for all that you both have done trying to expose Scientology. I also want to thank all those who decided to come onto the show and tell their story. I can honestly say I was drawn to the advertising of Dianetics back in the 80’s…. I was brought up as a Catholic though it never felt completely right. I can still Thank the Lord today, I am now a Christian.. baptist. I will admit at that time in my life, where I was having a rocky relationship with my stepmother and something didn’t feel right as a Catholic that the advertisement of Dianetics was very appealing to me. If I had met a Scientologist at that time in my life…… I’m just so glad I hadn’t!! I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that they are getting away with being considered a non-profit organization-“Church” and don’t pay any taxes. I also can’t wrap my head around the fact about how a child and an adult are placed together during audit training and the adult is a sex offender!!! There’s a lot more I can’t wrap my head around!!! I just love what you’re doing! What can I do?
Thank you. Go to the Aftermath Foundation website, click “Volunteer” and then click on “How can I help”
Hahahahaha! I completely forgot about those stupid life history questionnaires.
William Kilmartin, are you related to Jim Kilmartin? I think that is his name. He was married to a SO wife named Pam Kilmartin who died. Any relation to you? I’d like to know what Jim Kilmartin is doing or if he’s still drinking the KA.
Hi Mike & all,Thank you Special Correspondent! So True it Hurts! XO Ann B.
I was also told why so many Scientologist’s smoke – is that LRH “said” that we lived around volcanoes on the Whole Track…of course, the Xenu story was a missed with hold by the cult leader and the evil cult.
Excellent work!
The only thing I would add – is you HAVE TO PAY to rehab your lost language skills…and I DID IT – I paid for it!
Of course, I ran out of money …and never rehabbed my GAELIC ….spending $$$,$$$ and did not even come close.
CRINGE! So embarrassed I ever fell for this con.
You don’t have to graduate from high school, but if you join the Sea Org early, they will arrange a GED from a diploma farm so that you can be exempt from those pesky child-labor laws!
Out of all of these, the most disturbing for me is the permission and frequently the outright encouragement of Scientology parents for their kids to drop out of high school. This effectively puts them in the demographic of the poor and disadvantaged in this country. Its really a shame. They go to “work” in an Class V org and stay dependent upon their parents. They live like underage children well into their 30s and even 40s, totally supported and sheltered, fed and clothed by Mommy and Daddy. Some times I pity them for being so brainwashed and clueless and some days I’m contemptuous. This is a contempt day.
Excellent summary. High Fives !
Sadly, this is all true. I started smoking around age 12 or 13 because that’s what we Scientology kids did. I didn’t have to finish high school, instead I joined staff (before they banned under 18, under 18 was Sea Org only). Instead I was allowed to do Student Hat instead of school. That was the “legal workout” …. Yes, I was interrogated repeatedly. To the tune of 30k or more. And while some of it was therapeutic, that is admitting to something I did that was wrong and then taking responsibility for it, probably 20k was spent on trying to convince these asshats that I didn’t have any more blackmail for them to hold onto. And yes, cult was a very bad word. And yes, the OT levels and Ls were very secret. And yes the Life History one fills out in order to get onto the OT levels, or staff, or Sea Org, etc. – and you do have to update it often – is filled with more blackmail material. This is one of the key docs someone from OSA or HCO will use to find you should you ever blow. Or if they decide to try to get to your comm lines, which you list out, in order to destroy them. I’ve read countless others, is it really necessary to put how many times you’ve masturbated? Or every single sexual act starting from birth? Only if they want material they can use to blackmail or embarrass you with later. And yes, if you do have a real mental health issue, then you are out-ethics. Until you are type 3. Then you disappear. I’ve seen plenty of them go. I’ve seen none of them return.
Presses against my tranquility, remembering how I owed money to their private credit union, a loan I got in order to pay for Life Repair, which I needed in order to become a Staff member, which gave me a job that worked me whenever I was not actually eating or sleeping and paid me about $12 per WEEK (I worked more hours than that in a typical day, which I round out to about 17) half of which had to go back towards paying that loan, which was less than the accumulating interest, pushing me further into the red every statement, statements they never actually sent me, kept nearly as confidential as OT Three.
Anyway, that was my reward for being a passionately devoted scn-gist.
Amazing, that I never really realized I was being had. Totally lost, and never knew it, all along the way on… the path to Total Freedom.
Let me just wrap this post with the simple statement:
BRAINWASHING IS A REAL THING, and
It can happen to anyone. Especially kids because they don’t know they have the right to question authority.
And scientologists don’t think to question “The Source”. LRH did all he could, every form of manipulation, to make sure of it, to prevent just that sort of thought.
Thank all that is good in the world, that he failed.
I totally feel ya Blue Moon.
thanks, good peeps
Oh, and I do remember finding myself in the auditing chair being asked if I ever had a thought against L. Ron Hubbard.
I was shocked.
And the auditor kept at it, too, asking that question all sorts of different ways, each time just flooring me.
And I never, still never, thought rationally about it – thought that, hey, this is LRH orchestrating the questions, like all the questions, and don’t you have to be categorically paranoid to insist on that question…
to EVERYBODY, all the time? The answer there is yes, clinically. But, again I never thought about that, or, “Why…?” Or, maybe I did and then didn’t want to be guilty, omg, that is a thought against LRH!
LIABILITY, was a condition of existence all too real, always hanging over our heads, for us scientologists.
You know, a supervisor was never “wrong”, or held accountable, if he decided you needed to get bumped down and sent to Ethics… his nose bleed that morning could be enough justification… to make your already miserable existence much, much worse. And we were always reminded that we were wrong, a liability, if we did not report other scientologists…FOR ANYTHING.
That puts this org into a certain fitting “Condition of Existence” of its own, a permanent personality trait, if you will. Another point I always missed, being on the inside and under the spell.
Hi blue moon, Your comment is so real to me and I thank you for some observations of goings on that can still haunt me at times.The loyalty to all things Ron to the point of literally being under the spell of his con and not able to see it.I have been there too.Those of us here who decided to escape for whatever reason are the Sparks which will continue to feed the Fire that will keep growing.Scientology has done too much damage,particularly with disconnection, fair game policy,sec checking and after my time but feel it is relevant IAS.The lies can keep coming but at some juncture the cos will trip up.Their past,present and future will catch them up.I feel the Internet is so powerful a tool for us and here the cos promotes CFing like it is some ninth wonder of the planet! Same as the hundreds of times I did it in SO,minus movies and pizza.lol.You always have great insight.XO Ann B
love yea, and thannks
You were able to give orders to people up to seven times your age and they would tremble at your command.
Please elaborate on this.
Oh, I’m sure Sunny is talking about the young HCO staff. It’s very common for the young 2nd gens to be recruited into HCO, and you’ll have a 17-year old barking orders he hardly understands himself so relies on harsh “intention”
Hi Anon,Good to meet you. Oh lord, I thought I had it bad with a certain superior barking orders at me in SO-Asho F 42 years ago.But the young HCO staff you describe it really is sad. ” Harsh Intention ” has many facets and for those youngsters recruited so early into SO the pressure to create any type of stat as long as it is up must be stressful indeed.Of course I had that pressure too,but today dm seems intent on instilling fear from the get-go toward any SOer who displeases him for anything.When I was in I was definitely of the mind that Ron was the greatest leader ever and I felt privileged to be in SO.Three years later my experience in SO shifted to the KRC triangle with a vengeance.Funny how that happens! Always Ann B.
Yes, what Anon said. Elaborate: Children in Scn and the Sea Org are not children in the eyes of Scn. There are only thetans. Laws are a bother and they do what they can to get around them. Especially things like pesky labor laws. They don’t comply with them, they find ways around them.
But also you find young Sea Org members, because they have done nothing to out-qualify themselves yet, posted on posts that are executive posts (but only the very young qualify for them because they don’t have massive life histories with black marks on them yet). And so, for this reason, age means nothing in the Sea Org. It has nothing to do with ability or experience.
And so you may end up with a child as young as 12 giving you orders that you have to follow. They are senior to you, and no matter your age, education, etc, they still are superior to you and the orders must be followed or ethics and sec checking for you.
So yes, you can have a 12 year old telling you that you may not go to bed until XYZ are done. Yes, this 12 year old has just forced you to stay up all night to complete something.
yes,
and this distribution of authority is (partly) what makes bad worse… creepy.
Ah, yes – the screaming teenaged girls of the CMO. I guess the CMO has the first pick of the child recruits, because they sure seem to have a lot of screaming kiddies among their ranks.
Sunny,
What you’ve just detailed is what I considered completely unreal – nuts, actually, about the Sea Org and its policies, and was the main reason I never joined.
To tell you the truth, I almost did. Gulp. But, you know where i grew up us proud scientologists where taught that Sea Org was the elite core of recognized A-list recruits.
There was no question.
But, after getting the boot for foul reason, I ran away a second time, first being from mom and dad… So, keeping it all pretty much secret I went out in the world and pretty soon I found myself being critical and enjoying it…. I said they want just absolutely everything and it isn’t worth it. And of course I was right. Double rotten deal is what you actually get, because at that point and FOR 30-odd YEARS i kept the delusion that tech was tech, that Hubbard was god’s gift to man and and as long as I could hold the lessons, the tech in my mind, I was going to be ok. Basically, I forgot about it. That only took a few years I suppose, but for those few years I would have real dreams, nightmares that I was caught back in there. And being treated very skeptically now because… oh my god. Horrible horrible dreams. Skip to 2013 Mike and Marty fishing out back at what turns out to be Marty’s new safehouse and the rest is history. I was a fool no more. And I don’t get vulgar. Just don’t want to wake up all of sudden regretting it. Gripes and gripes I swear I don’t even get mad, or guilty about that or anything if I can help it. Point. Is. what? O yeah, that Hubbard does win my unmitigated indignation. And, significant factor number, two? I was just lucky, that’s all. Had they provided a taxi, I would have been in, lost at sea which a visionary, wayward Captain and forever a Billion years to go. Gad. And Miscavige, the boy, is just a worm. Undignified Guys like me, we can get close the edge, dangerously so. I survived, and now… If dear old Dave would like to speak? I beg you and as for the rest of you I say please, I beg your pardon.
9. The term “CSP” still makes you smile because it means you get to see your parents. Maybe.
(CSP- Clean Ship Program. This was the 3 hours on Sunday morning or thereabouts where you got to do your laundry, clean your berthing and such. But not if you were “downstat”.
Making one of these for kids who were born and raised in the SO would be even more interesting.
As someone who was raised outside Scientology (then stupidly joined, but wisely left after 16 years), the plight of kids born into Scientology wasn’t a subject I’ve thought a lot about. This post is an eye-opener … and I’m sure a similar list could be written for SO kids. Painful stuff.
So true!!! This was my life growing up.
Agreed Janis. That article hit way too close to home. I must say though that in our era and at least with me, I never wrote KR’s on family or friends. We weren’t squealers that the DM version of SO members are.
Not addressing mental health issues using professional care, with my family, has been the most devastating and lasting problem I experienced after leaving the cult. It was hard to shake the “psychiatry is evil” lie that LRH drove down our throats. Taking vitamins and doing locationals doesn’t handle mental breakdowns. Look at McPherson – the cult killed her.
Yup! She’d probably be alive today if it weren’t for her scientology boss and the church of scientology.
Of all the groups I’ve been involved in or with Scientology rates as the worst for looking after their own – they don’t and won’t. It’s as though the group actively goes out of its way to indoctrinate its members to treat their own as the greatest threat they have… fucking nuts!
I know!!! It IS fucking nuts. The religion that eats its young.
It’s all about the dosh, moolah, boodle, cash, coin, etc and the sheepbots are just the means to that end.
You naturally do “Contact Assists” on yourself when you make a boo-boo owie.
And you likely keep doing “Contact Assists” even when you leave Scientology!
Lol same! I still do that too.
This cult has a thing about sex. I mean, thoroughly detailed sex. Everything you’ve done. Down to the smallest detail. And, do you know what they do with this info? They read it! They let others read it. And then they laugh about what they just read! Sick fucks. Seriously, they’re sick fucking people.
Seriously, I agree they are sick fucks. It’s their highest level of internal entertainment rating just below stealing every dollar you have or can ever get credit for… geezers – how in the world do such good and able people get sucked down to that sort of shit!
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions hey?
After hours David Mscavige would sip scotch and read aloud to a select few
Tom Cruises sex habits,laughing out loud at choice parts. When the COB laughs everyone laughs.
When COB laughs everyone laughs….or else.
Somewhere there are barrels of pig shit with
the COBs name on it
They’re sitting in my garage…
Gladiator style entertainment – the bloodier the better.
Sounds like Joking and degrading to me. Isn’t that a crime? ?
There is a well-known incident when Caligula (Emperor of Rome) gave a banquet. Suddenly, Caligula starts laughing and laughing, and others at the banquet laugh along with him. When asked what was he laughing about, Caligula said, “I just realized that I could have anyone in this room killed”. Put a little chill into the festivities.
Imagine for a few seconds what DM would be like if there were no such thing as the FBI, and Tony Ortega wasn’t around to expose him……..now try not to scream…….AAROOUGH!!! Oops. Fail. That was not a scream of laughter.
Actually, OSD, I don’t think they really get the chance to get much fucking. If single, forbidden. If married, your mate may well be on another continent and the parting may well last for years. All at the pleasure of the czerch, of course.
And, absolutely, positively, no Masterbation!
Hi OSD. 🙂 I never understand that. What is the point of suppressing natural human urges? My friend, an ex-Jehova’s Witness says it’s the same for them, it’s considered shameful.
I was wondering if it’s a trademark of cults, and they prohibit it as another way to get members used to being controlled. It seems like cults tend to regulate sleep, eating, sex, relationships with family members, or anyone… also what you are allowed to read, or watch on TV or internet, and restrict access to everything ‘not approved’. I guess their rationale is, it makes one ‘more focused’ on the work to be done, or possibly ‘more pure’, ? but I’m leaning towards, they want to condition members to follow orders, and to become accepting of being controlled.
It’s the same with Catholicism.
McCarran do Catholic people have all those restrictions too? On what you can eat, how long you can sleep, what you can watch on TV, etc.? I know some religions are stricter than others, but I don’t know the specifics for Catholics. I have heard that there is a lot of ‘ritual’ and ceremony in Catholicism, and I also know that a lot of religions are similar in that they have types of prayers for certain occasions, set times to pray, a standard manner of prayer, use of symbols, prayer beads, religious artifacts, etc.
It always seemed to me that Scientology was more a system of thoughts and practices rather than a group focused on religious beliefs. Or actually, it kind of combines these things when members get into the OT levels.
As a lapsed Catholic and a veteran of a Catholic high school education, I can help with some of this.
What you can eat? Well, there’s the thing about no meat on Friday during Lent, but pre-Vatican II, it was a lot more restrictive (like no meat on Friday all year, and way back in the Middle Ages, it was no meat on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays, during Lent, and during certain feast periods).
No restrictions on sleep or TV watching. Certain books were banned by the Church, but that was eliminated a while back, since no one paid attention to the list.
The ritual and ceremony is mostly in the Mass, not in individual observance. It’s actually somewhat attractive, especially if you live in a poverty-stricken area/era.
Prayers for certain occasions? Yeah, there are. Readings from the Bible and certain mentions during the Mass are governed by the time of year and whether there’s a certain period of observance like Lent or Advent. You have the occasional prayer to a patron saint of something (like if you had the plague or feared getting the plague, you prayed to St. Roch, and there’s always St. Jude, patron saint of lost causes).
Set times to pray are mostly for the priestly class. There are certain times of day that priests pray in front of the altar. It used to be that bells were rung at those times in order that civilians could join in. The rhythm of the day in monasteries up to present time is governed by the time when the monks are required to pray.
Use of symbols? Other than the crucifix or the occasional statue of a saint, no, not really.
Prayer beads? Yeah, we Catholics have rosaries, which actually set out a pattern of Our Fathers and Hail Maries to say, and you keep track of it by advancing your fingers on the beads. It’s sort of like cribbage, really. And it’s not mandatory. If you’ve been particularly sinful, the priest might assign you to say a rosary as penance after confession, but that’s considered a pretty strict penance these days.
And, oh, yeah, speaking of confession, it’s between you, your confessor, and God. The Seal Of The Confessional is totally binding. We all know what happens in Scientology.
No, Catholics don’t have all of those restrictions, including the one mentioned. As far as religious stricture, especially among Western religions, every different brand has their own complete spectrum of believers, from the literally interpreting ultra-orthodox “Thou shalt NOT!” crowd to the laissez faire “everybody hug and be nice” group. As far as individually prohibited practices, you’re much more likely to get them out of a Baptist or a Mormon than a Catholic. Catholic worship is the most ritualized and structured of the main Christian denominations and all of the things you mentioned exist in some form in Catholicism. The Catholic belief system however, and how individual Catholic chose to conceptualize or understand the faith is pretty loose compared to the majority of other religions. You can fill a library with books on Catholic teachings, prayers, saints, liturgical ceremony, etc. and the truly mandatory stuff will fit on one page.
Hate to use Scientology think here but it seems to fit. It’s the only effect they can create after awhile. And since it’s common to just about everyone except the extreme nutcase it’s only a matter of time before any cult reduces itself to low life punishment activities and tighter control on the simple aspects of its members being human. It’s their last line of effect/control.
Perhaps this concept is the definitive demarcation line that defines a cult from, say a following or lighter type of religious engagement or other group pursuit.
I still find myself amazed at the difference between the 80s Scientology and the 90/s2000s + Scientology. If any exec forced that crap onto me in the 80s they’d need a dentist in a hurry or smelling salts first.
hi IYawnaLot, does it seem like rights were taken away little by little over the years until they ended up as they are now? As an outsider, that’s kind of how it appears to me. To cite one example of this, following the timeline, it looks like first Miscavige said no more family time allowed, next said no kids allowed to members in Sea Org, then he said no marriages to someone in another branch of the Org, then no marriages allowed in Sea Org at all. So it was a gradual removal of rights.
It seems like that’s how suppression starts, with a gradual removal of rights… I read the book “Night” by Elie Weisel which explains how in 1938 to 42-ish the Jewish people in Poland came to be removed to camps; first the authorities said they had to wear a gold star on their coats, then they were not allowed in certain shops, theaters, parks, etc., next they had to be off the streets after dark, then they were not allowed to own a shop, then they closed their synagogs, then their kids were not allowed to go to public schools, then they moved them to a 4 by 4 block radius, before finally they marched them to trains for evacuation… all little by little, in small steps, over a 2 year period of time. It’s this gradual erosion of rights, and people were thinking, no big deal, we can just wear the star no need to fight, then, it’s ok, so no going to shops after dark, or to movie theaters, no sense making a big fuss it will make it worse, then, well at least we can send our kids to our own schools, and still live in our own homes… but after a while, they were totally marginalized as it happened little by little.
So it seems like a tactic for control, to take away small rights little by little, until the person is used to being restricted, it then seems normal to be told what they are allowed to do. That’s what it seems like occurs when a group enforces arbitrary rules on what you can eat (rice and beans) when you can eat (30 minutes only at a particular time) or how much you can sleep, or whatever else that involves curtailing a person’s free will.
Yeah, that’s a pretty good summation of what happens in the real world. There is a lot of truth to “look don’t listen.”
In Scientology anyone with any ability with it at all was thrown out or had their life made a miserable hell by the exact or similar things you said in your post. Either way what you see today is a result of, not an evolution. Democracy, while flawed itself is always the first casualty to be buried alongside the truth with an asshole in charge.
Outstanding post, TJ!
Thank you so much OSD! 🙂 I appreciate your comment.
TJ – good question. If I were you, I would study the history of the church in various religions. This has been going on for a centuries and began with the Puritans, I believe. Any religion shunning sexual acts post this era are merely copy-cats.
Puritans? As in the 17th century? St. Jerome (4th century Croatia) has those hedonists beat all hollow! Truth is, sexual “purity” has always been part of human society with “You can do X, but not Y.” a part of every culture, including our own.
To wit, in Ancient Greece, men could have affairs with teenaged boys, keep mistresses and thought pictures of penises made cute decorations, like a bowl of fruit. On the other hand, you couldn’t actually penetrate, and a woman not a prostitute caught so much as looking at a man not her husband or relative was stoned to death. Nowadays, women have sex fairly freely, but we think of a man who chooses to see socially or look at even a picture of a woman not his wife is “cheating”, and any middle-aged person having an affair with someone markedly younger than themselves is sick and abusive. In 19th century France, masturbation was bad, but visiting brothels was OK, despite the fact that they hadn’t found a way to treat syphilis yet. In some circles today lesbianism and motherhood are OK, but looking for men isn’t. Who’s right?
Scientology’s obsession with sex is just as much a reflection of mainstream 50’s culture as it is a control mechanism. As a Gen X’er, I found it almost comical how all the current sex ed books kept telling me self-pleasure was practically a sacrament while hearing from grown-ups that they stopped going to (mainstream) church when they found what they did in the bathtub was sinful, if not unhealthy. Talking about someone’s sex life, along with drugs, is the best way to discredit someone, despite the fact that almost everyone’s had a brush with one or the other.
If you see it from the point of view of someone who wants to control people’s lives, it has two benefits:
– First, like sleep de-privation and malnutrition, it adds to physiological stress. Physiological stress puts you in a more suggestible state, and therefore makes you easier to control. Physiological stressors add up, and often a destructive cult will use several of them synergetically. During “courses” or “seminars” for instance, you might be asked to withhold from drinking or peeing. Or, for smokers, from smoking. These things might seem like an annoyance, and of course you can go without them for some time. But together they take their toll on your ability to take rational decisions. It is the same for constantly unfulfilled sexual urges.
– Second, these are urges that almost any healthy individual has (with few exceptions). Making them a “sin” practically guarantees that every member, even the most dedicated, will have done at least something wrong. That something wrong can be used against them whenever they need to be coerced into doing something, or made to feel bad about themselves. If as a member of a cult you feel that you can never conform to the cult’s rules, don’t be surprised because they are explicitely designed (on purpose) so that this is in practice impossible.
That is done on post.
Hi Newcomer. I don’t understand what that means.
Then the guys run to the bathroom or where ever to rub one out then they feel guilty followed by getting busted during a sec check followed by being put in lowers rinse and repeat. Oi Vey!
If you were an MAA by age 15.
Have worn an Ascot.
Can clean Asbestos from ships without a mask.
Build your own furniture.
Been Married 3 times
Dream of getting a GED by age 40.
Good one
and have disconnected from all wog relatives and apostates.
Be, do, have, Scientology style!
Be nothing do nothing have nothing: the cult gets it all.
Seriously funny.JC.Post more of this it helps.
10. Sea Org recruiters start stalking you from about age 11 because 2nd/3rd generation Scientologists are the only one brainwashed enough to willingly sign up and ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are saving the planet.
…..and you are pushed to consider making yourself “unqualled” in some way to stop that pesky Sea Org recruitment trauma.
This. So much. I used to joke to the friends that I trusted that I wasn’t interested in doing any drugs except LSD.
And for children you can add:
-plying is off purpose,;you have to do mest work to be able to confront and handle things in life.
-family – not important; what matters is the greatest good for the greatest # of dynamics so, if your parents don’t see you is because they are 24/7 serving scientology to save the planet.
There you have it
10) You could recite the 10 points of KSW by the time you were 10.
I never even read KSW…
Obviously pulled the Jedi mind trick on the sup.
That’s exactly what happened. You’re good!
Wow. Well then you’re a wog, have no clue and no way you could ever have been declared an SP. You’ve never been a Scientologist if you havent ever read it.
You didn’t read KSW?! Oh but you did, sort of, intravenously while you slept through MUs. That dead, bored exasperated stuff you feel is KSW going in.
9. You wrote reports on your parent’s activities and potential subversive conversations and turned them into a scientology Ethics Officer.
…and spied on their emails if and when told to do so.
Or you rummaged through the garbage cans of individuals for evidence of overts on order from OSA.
Mike, what you just posted is reminiscent of Mao’s Red Guards. Confess your crimes and turn in your parents.
For anyone who has not seen it, I highly recommend the movie “The Lives of Others” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others
Excellent movie
“The Lives of Others” is an excellent film. And so sad.
Thanks for the link, Mike.
I heartily second the recommendation of The Lives of Others. There is one scene where a person is in a Stasi interrogation. When it is over and she has left the room, the guard comes in to remove the upholstered seat cover and bag it for the archives. This, I presume, was so that dogs could one day be given the scent to track if it ever became necessary.
Forget Mao OSD, it is here in the USA.
“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain EMAILS or through CASUAL CONVERSATION. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov”
The Founding Fathers would be rigging the scaffolds already.
Personally I favor an all night firing squad. Mind you, I was using this concept in SF role playing long before Valkyrie came out.
Traveller?
Yes.
Cool. I played it starting from ~78