Marty has been doing a good job of exposing the unalterable policies of the church concerning dealing with perceived enemies.
One aspect not much discussed is who are the “outside professionals” hired to do the dirty work.
And while there is a lot that is done by Sea Org OSA staff, Class V (local DSAs like Mark Warburg and John Carmichael) and public Scientologists (John Allender, Ed Bryan and Co) there is work that requires specific skills, including licenses to carry and/or needs more distance from “the church” to afford a measure of plausible deniability.
There are quite a number of these “outside professionals” that are ostensibly hired by lawyers, but in reality are run directly by church staff either in RTC or OSA. The subterfuge of using “lawyers” like Elliot Abelson and Rick Moxon, both of whom are “in-house” attorneys whose livelihood (and in the case of Moxon, family) depends upon doing what the church asks them. They are mere window-dressing to try to cloak the activities and reports of these “pros” (and the OSA/RTC staff who run them) with a privilege. This privilege is then abused in discovery with virtually everything that might prove incriminating being withheld as “confidential” and outside the scope of discovery due to some sort of attorney-client or attorney-work-product privilege being asserted.
Some of the story is being revealed in the Monique Rathbun lawsuit with David Lubow and Monty Drake and Greg Sloat as defendants. We have seen the first indications of the sleazy tactics the church will employ to try to cover up their tortious activities, but we are also seeing that Judge Waldrip is not buying their stories. It will be interesting to see how this plays out — I predict that as this case goes forward it is going to become abundantly clear that the church has engaged in a massive cover up of what they have really been doing. And it will become clear that it extends far beyond the activities directly related to this case. I suspect it might unravel the whole sordid mess.
But let me get back to my actual point.
Many of the “outside professionals” hired by the church have engaged in, or witnessed activities that may or may not be criminal, though many are probably tortious. Invasion of privacy, intentional infliction of emotional distress, interference with business relations etc etc. And a lot that may be debatable as to whether they are either a criminal or civil wrong but there is no debate that they are morally reprehensible.
“Scientologist David Lubow” (this is how Judge Waldrip repeatedly and accurately refers to him) is more visible than most as he has been the front man sent across the country to be in Marty and my face. He showed up in Los Angeles and Arizona and Texas and Florida and there is a lot of video footage of him and his antics posted on Marty’s blog and on YouTube. (Often accompanied by his video-taping buddy Bart Parr — Lubow has other cameramen he has sent around the world, most famously “Chris” featured in Bryan Seymour’s program in Australia). Previously Lubow was the designated hitter for Bob Minton (Marty and I have both discussed this at length).
The recent posting about Robert MacLean (Shelly Miscavige Guarded By Armed PI’s)reminded me that there are a lot of other “hired professionals” out there who know things that have gone down in the dirty tricks department. They are all constrained to some degree or another by Non-Disclosure Agreements, but they also have a moral obligation to tell the truth and to make known violations of the law, including violation of individual’s rights. And if they are subpoena’d they are obliged to tell the truth.
I would be willing to bet money that Robert MacLean was part of a security detail at CST Mile High provided by Talon Executive Services. It was one of the questions he “no answered” when put to him by Tony Ortega. Mr. Maclean’s non-denials spoke loudly. Talon was started and is run by Ron Williams, a former Secret Service Agent. I dealt with Ron Williams for many years. He was the “go-to” guy in LA that provided armed ex-law enforcement private security people for Miscavige when he was out in public or at events. He helped set up the lines to the LAPD Bomb Squad to have their sniffer dogs come in before any event that Miscavige was attending to check for bombs. He has an extensive network of armed former law enforcement people on his payroll. And the church was one of his biggest clients.
Which brings us to Miscavige’s private security. For many years, that function was performed by Ted Banas, another former cop. He was with Miscavige 24/7, there were additional armed security personnel when Miscavige was at an event, but Ted was always there. When Miscavige was in Clearwater directing the Lisa McPherson case from 1998 through 2001, Ted was there with him. So long in fact that he married Penny Atwell-Jones and moved to Clearwater. I do not know Ted’s current status. He was a nice guy. He also knows a LOT of the real scene of Miscavige and his life. He was with Miscavige from when he got up in the morning to when he went to sleep at night. He went to the movies with him. Scuba diving with him. Flew to England for the IAS event and anywhere else in the world that Miscavige traveled. He was part of the Miscavige entourage for many years. He may still be.
There was another ex-LAPD guy named Ken Rice who also did personal security for Miscavige at events. Mostly in LA but he was also flown to the UK and to the Freewinds and Flag. He was a very large man with a gentle demeanor who had been one of the LAPD cops involved in the massive shootout with the Black Panthers in 1969. I don’t know if he is still around.
These were the primary people who dealt with Miscavige personal security.
Then there are many others who dealt with all sorts of other matters, many not so savory.
Gene Ingram is the godfather of Scientology PI’s in the Miscavige era. He was put out to pasture many years ago after a number of incidents where he was accused of impersonating a police officer and other shady actions. I think there was even an arrest warrant issued for him in Tampa. Ingram set up the Gerry Armstrong operation and investigated the LRH forged check scam that Marty Rathbun has written about. He was the author of many investigation tactics to “get in people’s faces” (a “noisy” investigation) — see Marty Rathbun’s post about Russell Miller a few days ago. Dave Lubow is Ingram’s protege and replacement. Lubow previously worked for Ingram in his ATV rental business and learned his trade from his boss and eventually graduated to his own business (“Falcon Industries Inc.” dba “Falcon Business Services”). Lubow prides himself on his skills with electronic surveillance and setting up false identities.
Also in Los Angeles, but very much behind the scenes is Russ Andrews. He is the husband of Fran Andrews who runs CCHR International. For many years Russ has been the “go-to” guy to get phone and financial records and run plates and get criminal record checks done. Nobody ever wants to know how this is accomplished, but it is a well-known fact that there are people who cultivate “friends” in the phone companies and banks who like to make a little extra cash. This is how the church tracks down a lot of connections — finding out what numbers someone has been calling or receiving calls from tells you a LOT. And of course, financial information can be a goldmine.
In Clearwater, the “go-to” guy is Brian Raftery. He is a former DEA Agent who now runs a PI and Security firm. His PI’s are the ones at the front door of the Ft Harrison, 24/7. He provides additional security for Miscavige when he is in town. He also conducts investigations and was the person who tried to get Jesse Prince busted for growing marijuana. The other fixture of the Clearwater scene is Ken Cramer, a local Scientologist who does research. While he is known as a “CCHR guy” he does extensive “research” on “attackers” and “enemies” when OSA needs someone “looked into.” He and Ben Shaw used to run the “D line” (taking someone’s garbage and sorting through it) on people from the Lisa McPherson Trust. This is still an ongoing practice, though now turned over to “outside pros” — the guy who recently conducted the “d-line” on me also did surveillance on Robert Almblad and cut down the trees in front of the office we were renting so they could do electronic surveillance on it. Funny no mention of this has been made with respect to the Rathbun’s, it is a certainty that they paid people to collect their garbage — or at least tried to and there ARE reports about this).
For many years there was also a former FBI Terrorism expert who consulted the church named Bob Quigley out of Washington DC. I believe he was an investigator that had been used by Jerry Feffer (Monique Yingling’s now deceased husband) at Williams and Connolly in DC and that Jerry made the introduction to him. I doubt Bob knows a lot and I doubt he is still involved with the church at all, but he may be….
The “go-to” guy for the IAS has for many years been a Private Security consultant from New York named Ed Seidlick. Seidlick was previously (I think) the interpol liaison for some law enforcement agency. He has connections all over the world in law enforcement, and thus was used by the IAS to help “safepoint” the Freewinds and ensure security was good for IAS events. He would be flown in to the UK each year for the annual IAS event and be the local coordination point with UK law enforcement.
And speaking of the UK, there was a guy there by the name of James Hunt who worked closely with Bob Keenan (the “LRH PPRO UK” but really “Miscavige’s pet in the UK”). Hunt was the “go-to” guy for Keenan and worked extensively on the investigation into John Sweeney (which is how I met him). He hired others, set up surveillance and who knows what else. I am not sure of his background, I only met him a couple of times with Keenan. He is particularly interesting though because of this connection with Keenan. As I said, Keenan was Miscavige’s pet in the UK — and Miscavige wanted to move Keenan to the US. Keenan was not enthused about this idea as he told me he didnt want to be under the level of scrutiny and control (and he could see the writing on the wall, every single person who had EVER been one of “Miscavige’s pets” had eventually been busted and become the butt of endless Miscavige “jokes”). But after I left, and Marty had already gone, Keenan was brought to LA to “deal with the problem” of Marty Rathbun. He reportedly brought James Hunt to the US to be his “go-to” guy on investigating/”handling” Marty Rathbun. Who knows what they actually did, but he would be a very interesting person to talk to. Keenan shortly thereafter routed out of the Sea Org and has a cushy job doing very little for a lot of money for a Scientologist whale in Brighton, England. Like Tommy Davis and Angie Blankenship (both former Miscavige pets), he is not speaking out about what he knows or the abuses he was involved in, and somehow he is no longer in the Sea Org but remains “in good standing” with no money problems.
There are of course many others who are out there. Private investigators, private security, consultants and “muscle” (like Ralph Gomez in Texas).
These people have information that would help put an end to the abuses.
They all have a moral obligation to make this information known.
They should be known for what they are — agents of the church who carry out much of the really discreditable stuff the church engages in.
If I think of others, or receive tips from readers who know others who should be added to this list, I will do additional postings on the subject.
More people need to speak up to put an end to the abuses.
MR says
Mike have you or will you hand this article into the fbi and the police stations all over California?
burnedbutnotbitter says
Amazing! Thanks for the time and research on this…I did not realize all of this, makes sense now…
Watchful Navigator says
I would like to know if anyone knows who was started on the ops against freezoner Ken Ogger.
Every time I raise this issue amongst his “friends” I am shouted down. So don’t jump on me for “conspiracy theory” like OSA did the entire time I was their DSA.
I am talking about 1999 when Ken, a major target of DM, was outed by his wife, and then he caught someone employed at his computer tech job red-handed spying on him and sent a message to OSA warning them he knew he was being watched and he would out this guy. This guy never showed back up the next day or later. Therefore, it appears OSA initiated the ops.
I just want to know where this begins so we can get some partial closure.
We will assume that the later black bag ops implied by his subsequent writings were off the books and DM settled a grudge.
There is no way he was not a high-priority target, since the tech was being freed for the first time by his book “Self-Clearing” and RTC would have been on high alert.
Again – just looking for how the op started and who.
Watchful Navigator says
Ken’s mother was Louise, the Qual Sec on the Apollo to whom LRH gave the briefing, “A Talk on a Basic Qual.”
Mike Rinder says
When I was in OSA I never heard of this person. There is no way he was a “target” of Miscavige. Doesnt mean someone else wasn’t after him for some reason. Maybe a local DSA or something….
Watchful Navigator says
Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.
Was Miscavige concerned in any way about Freezoners spinning off versions of the tech?
Like Geoffrey Filbert, The Pilot, Enid Vien, etc.?
Still curious on this point.
As DSA, I worked on the Alan Walter invest, but I was never sure if it was because of his tech offerings or his history with the church and LRH, that made him such a big target. Both?
Monty Drake was the Private Investigator whose employees would infiltrate the Knowledgism group. I do not know of major harassment or disruption like I have heard others went through, but there was theft of trash and copies of their documents and phone lists, as well as getting disgruntled clients to pursue grievances, which is harassment, for sure.
remoteviewed says
Mike,
Thanks for the back story on all this cloak and dagger crap.
Handled some BPC.
LR
Patrick Edward Brown says
Miscavige and gang: http://youtu.be/hrIGrakOdxc
brendon says
Given his notorious history and connections to Hollywood, I had always guessed the COS used Anthony Pellicano at some point. I’m surprised he didn’t make the list
FOTF2012 says
Recently I chanced across a peculiar similarity between two infamous dictators and Mr. Miscavige.
Mr. Miscavige reportedly has “scribes” following him, recording every word, and then compiling that into written orders and records.
Adolph Hitler had a similar behavior, with teams of secretaries coming and going in relays to capture everything he said. I am not sure he did that in all the contexts that Miscavige does it, though. Hitler may have been somewhat more flexible. (See for example “War and Remembrance” by Herman Wouk.)
The other dictator was Stalin. He also had people at his side continually writing down his words at least at his secret house in Kunsevo (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvM8ZtuhHm4 “The mystery of Stalin’s death.”)
Is this a trait primarily of dictators, or do government and church leaders behave this way in general? Does the Pope demand that an assistant record every word? I don’t know.
What is ironic is that the word “dictator” comes from, well, the word “dictate.” Maybe dictators understand that dictating is part of the job description.
Birgit says
Oooops!
Marty and Mike just sent David Misdemeanour and his “church” two more notches down into “Can´t Hide”, -30 on The Tone Scale. Only one more step to go now to -40, TOTAL FAILURE.
WOW! Things are getting really exciting now!
koki says
very nice thread.
Tnx, Mike.
koki says
very nice thread,thanks Mike.
Espiritu says
Thank you for naming names, Mike. This puts a bunch of ugly faces on these ugly activities that have apparently been going on for quite some time. You are doing a great service to Scientologists and non-Scientologists alike by exposing the depths of Miscavige’s and the COS’s criminal and amoral activities. It is very important that these henchmen be named. They are professional whores working for whoever pays them, in this case Miscavige. They are similar to scientists and engineers who blithely create weapons of mass destruction as an interesting game without giving a thought to what their psychotic employers might do with them. “I have no control over that” is their mantra. Well, I say F*** them! They are nothing but well trained parasites.
Am I being too naive to think that honest, well-intentioned organizations have no reason to be involved in sordid activites such as you have described? I don’t think so.
Wouldn’t it be possible for Scientologists to simply deliver Scientology services, improve people’s lives, and let our actions speak for themselves? I DO think so.
Here’s an idea. Take this long list of names of people and descriptions of their activities and create a special “Hall of Shame” web-site where they and their past activities could be permanently posted for all to see. New names could be added as they are discovered and exposed. Any who “come in from the cold” could post their confessions and amends for all to see. What do you think?
Birgit says
This “church” has a lot to hide. But wait a minute, I thought Hubbard said “Hiding” is -8 on the Tone Scale. Only four more steps to go now to TOTAL FAILURE.
Jens TINGLEFF says
“More people need to speak up to put an end to the abuses”
Couldn’t agree more.
I have to say that the last, say, six or seven years have seen vastly more leaks from the inside than the 10 years before it, just taking the time I’ve been paying attention. We already had the internet which made it impossible for information to just quietly disappear, in addition that that we now have more former insiders going on the record and that is good.
While the dirty tricks are outrageous (and each would be, on their own, enough to bring down the whole circus tent if the authorities could prove everything and got the proper witnesses), I also hold out for lots more of information on the low level criminal financial fraud (e.g. the insurance fraud committed by narCONon, the shady arrangements concerning bank loans to finance Co$ “donations”).
The important thing is to establish that the occasional fraud which is brought to light is not a local aberration or an accident but part of an orchestrated campaign to break the law in every interaction between the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology and civil society.
And all so that the cash flow into the Co$ can be maintained and enemies harassed.
tetloj says
Nice!
Zephyr says
Thanks Mike,
Knowing as many PIs, volunteers, double-agents as possible may come real handy in the future.
Greta
Idle Morgue says
I have been asking myself why the United States Government has not shut this cult down. Overwhelming evidence is all over the internet, media and newspapers about abuse and crimes Scientology does daily.
Someone just posted this on a blog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sAcsYlwL8BI
I am blown away and speechless!
Mat Pesch says
Don’t forget about all the Clearwater police that worked for the “church” when they were off duty. They mainly stood outside the CB (Clearwater Building) where the crew ate and OSA had its offices. A pretty young, blond OSA girl would hang with them, bring them food, etc. This went on for years and may still be happening. Is wasn’t done for security so much as it was done for PR reasons. Basically it was done to get the Clearwater police on the side of the “church”. When I was the Treasury Secretary FSO we paid thousands of dollars a week to the Clearwater police. All totally legal, OF COURSE. What wasn’t legal was a vehicle that made its way to the Building Inspector….., well that’s a story for another time.
breppen says
Thanks Mike for exposing these names. It’s weird but just as I was ready to comment, a Scn ad appeared on channel 7 right before Dancing with the Stars about “science and religion connecting, spirituality and technology combining, now imagine everything you have ever imagined is possible, Scientology there are higher states of existence”. I say imagine getting involved in corporate Scientology and find yourself at the butt of those above individuals you name above and other abuses dished out by the CofS. Once you join, your life is now their’s to be used and abused. You can join but you never leave peacefully unless you keep your mouth shut about the abuses.
MJ says
Funny, the ad didn’t mention that part, huh?
Tim-S says
Gabrielle Llewellyn was getting services (auditing) in the Indy Field several years ago. Not sure what auditing she was getting and she was reluctant to discuss it when I asked. I found this odd. She did discuss some of her prior post duties, if accurate. MAybe Dan Koon can comment here. She said she was involved in compilations.
Is she still current as an OSA Goon?
aegerprimo says
Very informative Mike. Who do you think is responsible for the drone seen at the re-re-re-re-opening event of Big Blue? (Seen at the end of part one of Garry Scarff’s protest video). Link to screen shot – http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/882/4011/original.jpg
Mike Rinder says
Gold
theholedoesnotexist says
Just wow. And thank you. Today’s a Bookmark kind of day. I wish I had split screen so I could put your post today, Mike, with Tony Ortega’s to the side of it. It’s the list of major Platipuss IAS donors at the Super Power event. These human ATM’s machines need to start showing some confront and responsibility and look at what their donations are buying. Throwing millions at a time without asking for any accountability is what my grandfather would have called unthinkable waste.
Regardless, shining a lot on the names and pairing them with their activities is the kind of spotlight that needs to be shone. What would be too perfect is have a chart with their pictures (I know this is hard to get) by their name. I’ll bet a lot of us might just see a face and remember something … maybe a lot of somethings. This is getting into the real underbelly of what has always been nothing more than untouchable whispers and shadows all these years. This is splendid and important. Jaw still on floor.
MJ says
Even a whale has only so much blubber.
Hallie Jane says
This is very important information. What the hell does all this have to do with freeing beings? I think LRH got on some other purpose line and lost his way. Then dm took it to hell and back. The more transparency the better as far as I’m concerned. The truth will set us free.
Joe Pendleton says
GREAT job of reporting Mike!
This is really an outrage that money that folks think is going to “religious” works is being used for Mafia like purposes.
It is time for some enterprising lawyer to take on a class action suit for people to get their IAS donations back. This money, taken for false purposes and used in ways that none of us EVER suspected it would be, needs to be returned. This is criminal use of religious donations and a full accounting of what Miscavige is doing with all these hundreds of millions of dollars additionally needs to be demanded of the “church.”
MJ says
On a lighter note, wouldn’t it be great for some trained ninja types to invade the Int base and pull everyone out of there and leave little ole Dave all alone. Note would read: “Since you feel you have do everything yourself, now you’re really free to act unencumbered by all those CICSMF’s.”
Cindy says
Your comment was funny and spot on MJ, but to get back to the original question, why not do a class action lawsuit to get money back from the IAS? It was given for false purposes and we were lied to as to how the money was going to be spent. A Class Action lawsuit seems in order here. And speaking of that, how is Luis Garcia’s case going? What’s happening on that one?
MJ says
You’re right Cindy. Perhaps Yanny could be the instigator of this lawsuit. Would that make headlines!
KFrancis says
MJ I was a trained ninja but regrettably it was in the 15th century and I have forgotten and lost my skill set…….hate it when that happens.
MJ says
Yeah, ain’t that a bitch. 😉
MJ says
Similar statements: All roads lead to Rome & All fingers point to Dave.
outraged says
This is not a church. It is a autocratic espionage cooperation run by a sociopath who prays on idealistic pure souls some of whom turn to the dark side. We need yodo.
MJ says
Use the force, outraged.
Sarah James says
Great information and as always, all roads lead back to the scam David Miscavige built. What a strange little man. 🙂
MJ says
Reminds me of an old Andrew Gold song – Oh, what a lonely boy
scholar says
BTW, the Pope’s security is not paid for by taxpayer dollars. The Vatican is an independent city-state recognized as a national territory by international law and has a seat at the UN. Swiss Guards provide security for the Pope and the Vatican has its own Security & Civil Defense Dept. I believe they also have a militia. Onther military defense is provided by Italy. I don’t believe they tax anyone.
MJ says
Probably won’t be employing DM as a consultant.
Chee Chalker says
I think when the Pope visits the US, taxpayer money is used for his protection, as it would be for any head of state visit or other prominent religious leader (read NOT Miscavige ). Security such as local police force, secret service, etc. (all taxpayer funded) in conjunction with the security that person has from their own country.
Pied Piper says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax
Chee Chalker says
Hey Mike
I just stumbled across this article : http://www.westword.com/1997-08-14/news/hush-hush-money/. Regarding thud Wollersheim case where you deny that the Co$ offered 12 mil to settle. Can you comment on whether or not that was true? Off topic, I know, but it was kind of random how I came across the article, so I thought I would ask!
Mike Rinder says
It’s not true. Don’t know where it came from.
MJ says
Objective process for DM:
1. Locate that firing squad
2. Walk over to it
3. Position your body so you’re directly facing it
4. Command it as loudly as you can to shoot
(End of Process)
FOTF2012 says
And end cycle.
Garry Scarff says
Ted R. Banas passed away in November.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sptimes/obituary.aspx?n=ted-banas&pid=167876899&fhid=16788
http://radaris.com/~Ted-Banas/165485690
MJ says
DM: His heart is a desert island…. The whole scope, the whole energy of his mind surround and protect him; his depths isolate him and guard him against the truth. He flatters himself that he is entirely alone there…. Patience, dear lady. Perhaps, one day, he will discover some footprint on the sand…. What holy and happy terror, what salutary fright, once he recognizes in that pure sign of grace that his island is mysteriously inhabited!…
Paul Valery
nomnom says
I volunteered at Berkeley for a while in the 80’s and there was an operative named Roger Stodola who was doing ops on Ford Greene and Werner Erhardt.
Alanzo says
Oh my god, the comments in the comments section are just as good as the post!!
I hope we have some real life, present time, law enforcement personnel visiting here today.
And taking notes!
This is a Big Day.
Let’s do this again, shall we??
Alanzo
Alex de Valera says
You are right Alanzo, i’m saving the whole thing as soon as I get to my computer. No words to express my gratitude to Mike for such a terrific job in getting the sun light of truth into the twisted path of this tax exempt criminal organisation.
MJ says
Perhaps a little off topic, but I just thought of Heber. He used to sing ‘The Impossible Dream’ and these lyrics stuck with me – “To fight for the right, without question or pause …
To be willing to march into Hell, for a Heavenly cause …”
I hope one day Heber marches right out of there. He’s been in Hell long enough.
Karen#1 says
How very religious and ecclesiastical.
Judge Waldrip found that the *Church* is a business.,
It quacks like a business, talks like a business and walks like a business.
It spends significant money on dirty shady operators who will steal bank records,
steal phone records and do a lot more.
The IRS definition of innurement is spending 501C3 money for personal benefit.
Using shady mobster type Private Investigators at specific Miscavige targets to
benefit Miscavige’s personal evil intentions is not religious or eccleaiastical.
I made a series of videos on Office of Special Affairs ~~
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL97bG9F7T-UebZJmqB9XcMccVi5rplS3P
Nana says
Mike, thank you very much. I am new to your blog, but after seeing the harassment my daughter has experienced since leaving the church in 2009, including creating law suits by others, having these names will help on our next actions.
Madora P says
This post is the real IAS Event.
dankoon says
“These were the primary people who dealt with Miscavige personal security.”
Note the all important word “primary” here. Mike is withholding DM’s ace in the hole, Gold Base Security’s Master of Disaster, the man who in a previous life taught Barney Fife the rules of the road, the one, the only … DANNYYYYYYY DUNIGANNNNNNNN!
MJ says
Thanks Dan. Remind me not to let him babysit my kids.
Patrick Edward Brown says
Lol! And don’t forget his side kick MATT BUTLER!!!!
Marc Headley says
Let’s not forget the Ex-Sea Org double agents that work for OSA INT & RTC. That pretend to be disaffected while gathering intel and reporting back who SPs are hanging out with. There could be a lot more of these than are know but here are a few just in case.
Erick Geisler
Yael Lustgarden
Wolfie Frank
Adam Parselle
Daniel Christian
Daniel Montalvo
Micaela (Mimica) Blasco
Mike Rinder says
And Pablo Lobato, Neil Smed/Bogart, Gabrielle Llewellyn, Andy Hutton, Meryl Dubay and others I am sure I have forgotten….
Gail Paige says
Meryl Dubay is not a “double agent”. I know what she did when she was posted in OSA years ago but that has nothing to do with what she is doing now. If you know otherwise, please fill me in.
Mike Rinder says
I knew Meryl in the church too. She reached out to me to gather information on what I was doing. She lives relative nearby. When I was not very forthcoming, but asked her questions about what she was doing and what she thought about various things, despite an initial enthusiasm to get together, she suddenly stopped all communication. What do you know that is different?
Gail Paige says
This is not for posting. I’d prefer to send you an email.
Cindy says
Anyone know if Mike Graham is a double agent or plant?
MJ says
Thanks for the heads up Marc. BTW, your book was very informative.
Margaret says
Daniel Montalvo
THE Daniel Mantalvo?? Is there a story here that hasn’t been told? (Or did I just miss it?)
Just Me says
You missed it. It was ugly. And then it ended.
Zephyr says
Does anyone know if Klaus Buechele (long term OSA staff) who has supposedly been ‘declared’ falls possibly into this double-agent category?
Greta
Mike Rinder says
Well, in my experience he is either a plant or a coward. He came to both Marty and I with stories of how OSA has tried to get him to spy on us. He also had a very contrived Declare Order (I have not seen anyone with a copy of a declare order for some time). Klaus said he would expose this information and then had excuse after excuse and ultimately refused to tell anyone what he claims had happened. There were many other outpoints and eventually he started accusing Marty of “violating the auditors code” and various other things….
Poet13c says
Brilliant article, Mike. Thank you.
Gary "Jackson" Morehead says
Wow Mike, you stir some good memories.
worked hundreds of hours with many of the folks mentioned. Banis had alot of good stories from his pre-CSI Days. Jessie Jackson is not the “Angel” of a public figure people know him to be.
JJ Gaw – He helped me sell off the HK_91’s and then purchase the all mighty “sniper rifle” that became folk lore as being up at the Eagle Booth 24/7. It was a fine rifle though and I’m pretty sure Caetano super glued his paws to it. He did a good job locating the drive by shooters we had.
Ron Williams, Gentle Giant. Nice guy with a very nice pay check. He loved being one of the “Hired Heater’s” strictly assigned to appelbox and Shelly. He spoke highly of Shelly as she took care of us well during event’s realizing how much we went with out during event’s being there for them full time. These folks could also tell of the many times they witnessed Dave’s psychotic outbreaks on you and the others during the rehearsal days leading up to the events.
Surveillance…. Boy I was involved with this way more than I think I was supposed to be. The equipment rooms at OSA full of devices, lenses etc… I’m pretty sure has now filled over into Heber’s unused office.
Good article Mike!
— Jackson
Free Bird says
I know Ken Rice. He is still around protecting the ‘ Great leader’ at Flag events. Sometimes his wife would come too and knit us girls scarfs.
Sinar says
Mike,
I did know Ted Banas and Ken Rice quite well. Ted was provided food, while on duty guarding Miscavige. Ted was an LAPD vice cop and specialist on VIP protection, having to work with the Secret Service and privately with Arabian royal family living in LA.
Ken Rice was one of the first guys when the LAPD Swat was formed, the big shoot out he was involved in was with the Symbionese Liberation Army, who had abducted Patty Hearst many years ago, a stand off lasting most of the day and eliminated that gang with the house catching on fire at the dramatic end and dollar bills on fire, floating in the air.
Rafferty would occasionally show up and compare notes with Ted (nickname T bone). Ted was the main PI and we traveled on the planes together, on commercial at that time back and forth from LA to CW; the UK and the Caribbean. When there was an Int Event in Clearwater, Ken Rice other PIs from LA, some Ex CHP and Ex Secret Service, showed up to bolster the protection detail at Flag and Ruth Eckerd Hall..
One of their discussions involved getting Jesse busted, using another operative over Cannabis use, while he was working for LMT which was apparently successful.
These PIs were also hired to train and improve the Security guards at the Int Base. When DM was at the Int base, was vacation time for Ted, otherwise he was on daily – showing up in the AM and having breakfast when DM was ready to leave the Hacienda and go to the office.
Sinar says
I also remember Ed Seidlick from the Freewinds, he was used to get local Intel and track down blown staff from the Freewinds.
Mike Rinder says
Sinar — thanks. You are right about the SLA rather than the Black Panthers with Ken.
Mark Fisher says
Regarding your prediction Mike regarding more that is unknown that will eventually bring them down, I would love to see the OSA and RTC intelligence files on me and see what false reports and other dirty tricks were carried out that I don’t know about.
The US government has the Freedom of Info Law for people to get the truth. I wish there were a similar way for anyone to get access to their files. Maybe there is a future lawsuit here to gain access. After all pc folders were recently turned over and maybe Moseys suit will set a precedent.
Patrick Edward Brown says
Mike, thanks! How about Kevin Popovich who was also one of Dear Leader’s personal body guards? I know he’s out of the SO now but could possibly still be doing black bag work for $cn.
JL02 says
Old School, I am a Catholic, raised a Protestant, and have an interest in Scientology as Jon Atack would not….from a sociological perspective. If he wants to know who I am, I would happily reveal myself. I submitted my comment respectfully, and hope Mr. Rinder takes it in that spirit.
JL02 says
not should be now 🙂
Mark Fisher says
Long before Minton, Dave Lubow was used on us in Las Vegas and then Stacy & Vaughn Young.
Ferris Khan replaced Lubow in Vegas and eventually on me for years.
Carcha says
Very informative and eye-opening.
Busck says
Funny how DM thinks that someone would plant a bomb, that would mean that innocent bystanders would get hurt.
The Sp’s he declares would never want to hurt innocent people.
He sure is paranoid.
MJ says
You think?
MJ says
Afterthought – you’d be too if you had such a daily diet of overts.
1984 says
Maybe, but some things have been too quiet lately. He is due.
LDW says
What would be a fascinating novel is a breakdown of which “enemies” of scientology or LRH were factual, which were simply paranoia and which were real; but created by his own unscrupulous activities.
From what I’ve gathered so far, the alleged attacks from psychiatry were more or less along the lines of “prove your theories with adequate documentation or we’ll simply ridicule your claims.”
Tilting at windmills? Reaping what you sow? Or a real threat to the only group in the universe who can free man?
I’m leaning toward the first two explanations as the major sources of all the trouble. That would make all of the above clandestine and overt activities nothing but an attempt to shut up people who blow the whistle.
DollarMorgue says
Psychiatry -> red herring
Espiando says
Unfortunately, it’s a red herring that’s still doing real damage to people’s lives due to the abomination that is CCHR. Promulgating that ECT is still a common procedure, the whole “Psychs caused the Holocaust” thing…CCHR and anyone who still believes in the anti-psych meme that Scientology created need to be destroyed.
thegman77 says
“You are totally responsible for the condition you are in.” And why didn’t that apply to LRH? Mary Sue” And DM? As the common saying states it, “What goes around, comes around.” Make it so, #1!
Great job, Mike.
Robert Almblad says
DM’s Dirty Tricks will continue to backfire because Monique’s lawsuit is now tracing the source back to him, RTC, CST, IAS, etc…
Monique’s lawsuit has just begun but the dots are already getting connected, i.e. DM throws CST under the bus to try to stay out of the lawsuit, etc…
How much financial damage has RCS caused by spending countless millions on dirty tricks?? Well, it’s many $ billions…. Which is a lot more than all the Whales and all the clapping seals will ever be able to muster up.
I agree Mike, Monique’s case may just unravel the whole sordid mess. Once the villagers find out where Frankenstein’s castle is located, they will show no mercy…. and they will not be carrying pitchforks and torches. Oh no. Instead they will carry sopeanas and court orders.
Taking financial responsibility for damages caused, is the American way. DM, the only way out, is the way through the court system. Good luck.
MJ says
Dave, you have about as much chance of winning as The Pope has of converting to Al-Qaeda.
Cindy says
And how ironic and just that Davie will be impaled on his own sword in the justice system, the very arm that he used to harrass and Fair Game other people. So now it will be the way he goes down. The sword in your hand has turned and is now pointing at you Davie.
Thank you Mike for specific names. I hope some of those named will come forward and do the right thing.
1984 says
He will be impaled, but it will not be on a sword.
MJ says
Stick up his ass?
dankoon says
Robert, DM used to occasionally remark to me (and others) how much he hated legal. I am beginning to realized that he hated it for reasons different from mine. I only hate it because of the labyrinths of complexity (though my favorite curse in the whole world is this Mexican beauty: May your life be filled with lawyers). DM hates legal because of what it will one day show.
DollarMorgue says
The OSA operators might also be of interest. It would help if the one or other could step forward.
Mooser42001 says
This report, that Scientology operates in a manner similar to many corporations, and recently accepted as the way to operate by an awful lot of our American Government, too, is very comforting. It’s good to know that Scientology is no worse than anybody else.
Carcha says
I’ll agree with you that unfortunately some entities have “copied” the warped thought of this church. The same might be said for the proliferation of lotteries, based on gambling and the extremely distant probabilities of instant riches. The outcome will, one would hope, show the fallacies and bring a reversion to much more enlightened honesty.
You will no doubt go into a fit over this next: LRH opened many doors to wisdom and to a far brighter future than any which existed previously, and that has reach, far and wide some good, some bad. Perhaps it is the way of life, that one must burn one’s hand on something hot as a child, to avoid doing that in the future – if so, that is sad. I burned my hand once, and it is not pleasant at all – just a fraction of a second contact with a hot stove, and I am wary of anything shiny ever since. Even a silver coin makes me double-check
One would hope for some easier way to learn things, and perhaps some day we will actually have the fruition of real Scientology spread unadulterated, the study of knowledge, the study of good things, of Ethics, of how to be and live better.
Good Old Boy says
For those still in that are reading this please look will ya at your own be- do-have and
then LOOK!!! at DM’s be-do-have. The emperor who wore no clothes and the destruction
of the COS should become very clear to you.
Thank-you very much Mike for the truth.
MJ says
Sure like to see Dave in a black boiler suit. How about you?
Alex Castillo says
No, it has to be an LA County Orange boiler suit,yo know the kind convicts wear?
MJ says
Perhaps black and orange to single him out. Wouldn’t have to change for Halloween.
gato rojo says
The RPF would be too good for him. If he were in prison just think of what charming treatment that condescending attitude of his would get him. Especially since he’s so short and cute…..
Jose Chung says
Thank you mike.
It’s like a church molded into a BAD 1950’s Crime novel.
( the mind of David Miscavige)
Poet13c says
Perhaps even put into film, say, The Master’s Apprentice?
MJ says
Working title – The Butt Ugly Truth
SILVIA says
So, Black Heart checks if there is a bomb at the stage before the events; goes around surrounded by security/body guards; he is terrified someone will kill him. How come? Because of his abuses and crimes, and he knows it.
All this reminds me of Al Capone, always afraid of being caught, surrounded by criminals but mostly hiding.
Black Heart is doomed and we will keep speaking up and acting, so his criminal activities continue to be exposed and he will end as Al Capone, or Hitler or even worse.
Thank you Mike.
MJ says
Dave, your real payday is coming soon.
KFrancis says
The antisocial personality…..”Such a person has no trust to a point of terror. This is usually masked and unrevealed.” LRH
Dave has no choice but to check really, he knows that the audience is really full of enemies and given the chance anyone of them would surely draw a weapon or detonate a bomb.
CofS Exit Zone (@DatumOmNom) says
/APPLAUSE
Awesome post Mr. Rinder. But you had me prematurely salivating for the inside scoop from years gone by that I have been fervently hoping would come out someday. Albeit this is a story that is exception to the norm – when the dirty lawfare tactics blew up in their faces and one of their lackeys said NoU.
Re: “outside professionals” hired by the church and their use of “in-house” attorneys – sooner or later somebody should give proper credit where it’s due to Joe Yanny. The outside attorney who refused to play dirty back in the day and turned on his handlers from RTC, CSI, etc. giving them a dose of their own medicine when he found himself on the receiving end of Fair Game.
Yanny did the right thing in the end, but very few people remember his good deeds and what he endured after refusing to do the dirty tricks his clients wanted:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-29/news/mn-705_1_joseph-yanny
If ever there was an excellent example of “outside professionals” who did the right thing that others should be following, it was Mr. Yanny. His career has flourished after all that mess died down and he still gets the occasional media coverage for handling high profile entertainment industry cases.
Perhaps the world at large needs a reminder that despite the fear corporate Scientology might instill on those who work for them, Yanny’s story proves it is possible to stand up to them and let the truth be known for the greater good without it totally ruining their life afterward.
Mike Rinder says
Thankyou for reminding me. I have never publicly acknowledge Joe Yanny. As you say, he is a man of integrity. In fact, he stepped in to represent me pro bono in my divorce case that the church was trying to turn into an endless fishing expedition. It is he and his firm that eventually managed to put an end to the idiocy of that case that went on for nearly 4 years.
CofS Exit Zone (@DatumOmNom) says
Wow!!!! (on the pro bono representation)
I had assumed he washed his hands of all things Scientology after all he endured. Nice to know he is still worthy of calling a hero even after all these years.
Mike Rinder says
Definitely. I stayed in touch with him even when I was in the church believe it or not.
MJ says
Sounds like an honorable man.
Old School says
Mike, I lost track of the impending depo of Tommy D. Did he end up perjuring himself? Or, did he successfully NO answer?
Sinar says
Tony O covered that quite well: http://tonyortega.org/2014/01/02/the-tommy-davis-deposition-an-explosive-set-of-documents-filed-in-scientology-lawsuit/
MJ says
Tommy Davis is a prime example of gobbledygook.
plainoldthetan says
It’s not clear to me that Tommy successfully “no-answered”. It seemed to me, from reading Tony’s site and others, that Tommy is trying to keep from being Declared and having to disconnect from Mommy Dearest. But at the same time, he’s in the realm of getting slapped with contempt charges since he refused to answer questions whose answers are already in the public domain.
MJ says
It also sucks to be Tommy.
gato rojo says
It seemed to me that he was rewriting the book on semantics! Pretty evil actually and I applaud Mr. Jeffries for getting as far as he did. That took some talent.
His worlds are colliding, headed straight for disaster. He cannot do this double-speak and back-peddle without being slammed with something very hard-hitting from the court. EVERYONE 🙂 can see clear through his BS. Can’t wait!
Bystander says
Some church.
richardgrant says
This is very shrewd, Mike. You’re being subtle about it, but you are clearly serving notice that anyone who gets in bed RCS may be held accountable down the road — at the very least by having their tawdry association publicized, and quite possibly by being called to testify in coming legal proceedings.
LDW says
This is really amazing data. Just about every day now I discover more about how clueless I was when inside the bubble.
You are providing a vital service. You’re not just assisting others by exposing the crimes that prove the Co$ is a ruthless cult. You are also opening the door to freeing the useful aspects of the tech so it can be employed by those people who do have, as their basic intention, helping others to be happier, more able and more self-determined.
Ron came up with some good processes that do help in that regard. Cultifying the subject into an Only One philosophy was not one of them.
Unmocking the monopoly is a good thing.
Thank you for being there and communicating.
Hallie Jane says
+1!
Espiritu says
You and me both, Les. I had no idea that these kinds of goings-on were so extensive, especially after the G.O. was “disbanded”. The magnitude of these mostly unnecessary operations is mind-boggling.
JL02 says
Mr. Rinder, you are entirely correct. Respectfully, though, will you be unburdening your conscience in a deep and meaningful way? I know you’ve already done some, and Marty Rathbun has a good start with Russell Miller……I don’t know what you might have on your chest, but for being in for so long, at so high a status, why not just let it go…..I mean really unburden, and apologize……
Old School says
JL02, since you are calling on Mike to do something he has already done. Why don’t you disclose to him who you are? Not to his readers but, to Mike.
Lovealways says
whatever dude…
Charles Tate says
JL02, who the FUCK are you to be the arbiter of what is “deep and meaningful”? “Respectfully”? Balderdash; not the least bit respectful. I am sick of all the holier-than-thou dickheads who show up on the blogs, looking down on the bloggers and commenters trying to slog through a day and a year at a time and make the best of things that they can. What do you have on YOUR conscience?
Do you think by pretending to be respectful and polite you are fooling someone? Your comment is outright violence.
Whatever one might think of Mike, it is completely clear that he did whatever he did in Scientology because he thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Of any person in any sphere, one can ask nothing more than that. It is supremely obvious that Mike is a champ of a guy with a lot of compassion and extremely responsible. I for one hope that he has a CLEAR conscience, for it is what I believe he deserves.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks Charles. I appreciate your kind words. There are some out there who will never be satisfied, they think there is some conspiracy of silence of information that I (or others) are afraid or unwilling to disclose. I assume they reach that conclusion because I do not condemn L. Ron Hubbard outright or express regret over wasting my entire life. These people also seem to feel they are somehow entitled to their personal satisfaction — they invariably have not read everything I have said on blogs or to the media, and they certainly have no idea of what information I have given to law enforcement. I do what I can do and what I think is right.
izzysson says
Mike,
An exceptional post. Thank you.
izzysson says
Joe Lisa and Bruce Raymond
Too many secrets. Too many stories.
Doug Parent says
Good data for the lurking-under the radar- Scientologist to ponder. Look folks, Miscavige really is using your donations for his private little war, against YOUR old friends who are whistle blowers, not SP’s as he is banking on that you buy-into-or-else.
Nick Lister says
What’s Dave Lubow doing now? I haven’t heard anything from him in over a year. Last time he called me, I called him out on the Squirrel Busters and his voice switched from piece of shit investigator to a kid that got caught looking at porn.
Chee Chalker says
Tell us more Nick! Was he trying to deny being a part of squirrel busters? Think he was surprised you knew about SB?
Rod Keller says
Sorry I got carried away. I should have put them into one comment.
Mary McCarran Kahn says
I liked the way you laid it out. Added sort of a humorous tone and really emphasizes how outrageous it is.
Mike Rinder says
Rod — I have not been able to respond to everything as I am on the road and trying to negotiate this with an iPhone. Appreciate all your input.
Zephyr says
Rod,
I guess the dam burst in spurts….:)
Keep ’em coming!
Greta
Chris Shelton aka Galactic Patrol says
Wow. Nicely written, Mike, and mega-kudos for naming names and getting super specific on how RCS operates in the Dirty Tricks Department. Apparently there are some people who will do anything for a paycheck and it’s nice to know why they are exactly. As commented above, there’s no better disinfectant than the harsh glare of truth. I hope these guys are feeling more than a little uncomfortable at being “outed.”
FOTF2012 says
Wow. I cannot begin, in my mind, to guesstimate how many $ in donations are spent on all that, except that it must require a huge annual budget and reserve.
Conan says
Wow Mike,
Don’t withhold anything!
Rod Keller says
Daniel Otero, Clearwater.
Rod Keller says
Edwin Richardson, Los Angeles. Worked Hemet and sent to Ida Camburn’s home.
Rod Keller says
Steve Bellavigna, Lindsay Colton and Gregg Colton, Clearwater.
Rod Keller says
Richard Bast and Robert Keefer. Tried to lure a judge onto a boat.
Rod Keller says
Jarl Grieve Einar Cynewulf – worked on Russell Miller in the UK.
Doloras LaPicho says
That can’t be his real name! That’s the kind of name a Norse neo-pagan (modern worshipper of Odin, Thor etc) would assume to look like a proper Norseman.
Idle Morgue says
Thanks Mike. Wow – this information is so revealing. That scum bag Miscavige uses our hard earned money to protect himself…just like a Mafia Boss. Bringing this out to the public is important. What other “Ecclesiastical Leader” needs to have dogs sniff for bombs before they speak? Can you imagine a Minister or Priest having to do this. And Miscavige’s speeches are not spiritual in nature – Psych busting, purchasing real estate, number of sq.ft. of laminate flooring laid? Bat shit crazy cult!
plainoldthetan says
Given there have been actual attempts on a Pope’s life, I’m pretty sure that the (Roman Catholic) Pope’s security detail does check for bombs. But not on the taxpayer’s dollar…
Mike Rinder says
I would be pretty certain it was on the taxpayer’s dollar. If not provided by the Italian police, then the Vatican Guard funded by tax deductible donations to the church.
Rod Keller says
Humberto Juan Fontana – worked on the case where Heber Jentzch was arrested in Spain.
Rod Keller says
Steve Long of Vision Investigative Services in Rohnert Park, CA. Investigated Boston Globe reporter Joseph Mallia.
Rod Keller says
Jon J. Gaw. Surveillance of Joseph Yanny in Riverside.
Alanzo says
Names, resources, command lines, relationships, specific projects worked on.
Thank you, Mike.
Way to go.
Alanzo
Rod Keller says
Jeffery Woodcock. Did surveillance on Marty.
Rod Keller says
Trash inspector Mark Chauppetta spoke to Tony O., but didn’t reveal much.
Rod Keller says
Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold. Did surveillance on Pat Broeker for 25 years.
Jeff Jacobsen says
JJ Gaw?
Mike Rinder says
Yes. Good one. John Gaw in Riverside county did a lot in the 80’s. Think he was retired in the 90’s but don’t recall why.
tetloj says
Some great information there, thanks Mike. More facts, out in the open. More leads for someone to connect to other dots.
MJ says
Thanks Mike. Right out of Alice in Wonderland – “Curiouser and curiouser!”
Rod Keller says
Brian Raftery. PI who became Jeese Prince’s friend posing as “Rinzy Trinidad.”
Mike Rinder says
Two different people.
chukicita says
IIRC Rinzy Trinidad’s real name is Barry Gaston.
Chee Chalker says
Thanks Mike for posting this….you know what they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant!
Cheerio!
Tony DePhillips says
Thank you Mike.
Mary McCarran Kahn says
Tony, Thank you for your kind words to me yesterday. Also, I was glad to read your post on BackInComm and see your picture; it’s nice to place a face with these names. Enjoyed your post very much and for the most part agree. Have had to come to terms with labels myself.
Dan Locke says
Hello, Mary, I met you somewhere along the way. I don’t remember talking with you that much, but do remember a fun personality. I wish you the best and hope that you’ll always savor the best of Scientology as there is a lot of it that is “all good”.
Mary McCarran Kahn says
Well, it would be so nice to meet you again, in this new place we are in. :o)
I have enjoyed your post and perk up whenever I see your name.
Rod Keller says
Jim Settle, former FBI. Used in the Lerma and FACTnet raids, and probably more than that. I always wondered what were the “confidential search terms” he looked for on FACTNet computers.
Chuck Beatty says
I get made to think of what LRH wrote in Mission Earth, regarding the character who is the PR man satirical person (J. Warbler Madman or something like that, the top PR man that is Jettero Heller’s PR), the crazy spoof satirical PR man’s name is a combination of some of the great real PR firm(s), anyways that character was madly doing wrong PR, with the intent to still ultimately just draw attention to the Jettero Heller character who is the book’s hero. .
The PR man tried to have Jettero do just horribly odd and bad things, just to get attention. (I read all sorts of things into LRH’s Mission Earth books, like in this case, LRH was blaming the GO, and LRH was letting off steam at the GO by blaming this mad PR man for bad ideas that boomeranged like in real life the GO PR people offered up bad ideas to try to put out the fires that LRH’s non self realized earlier bad GO writings triggered the GO to implement for LRH, and which LRH oversaw all that spy stuff and covert stuff anyways, and was info’d on all the worst of the worst anyways).
Even though LRH’s Mission Earth spoof PR man did these bad things, it did result in attention for the hero client, although badly skewed the public’s image of the hero client.
LRH was being overall negative and satirical about this in Mission Earth, but in real life, LRH didn’t really ever own up, I never read he finally took responsibility for the path he put the GO onto, and the results today, Marty’s 3rd book has some material on the GO’s downfall, the details, I think more is needed and I wish again LRH’s thoughts from 1980 onwards in detail about the GO were available to see what he wrote and thought to the end of his life about the whole GO/OSA aspect of the movement.
Again history is so tied together, for instance, whatever LRH ordered, like when he asked to have a briefing of everything in the church, the last time(s) he did so, and what info was sent him, like was info sent him regarding what OSA was to consist of, and any LRH response saying yea or nay or not saying anything at all, giving his tacit consent that OSA was naturally still needed. I’d very much like to know LRH’s response to having been told that OSA was forming, on the heels of the GO, and what OSA’s org board was to consist of, since LRH wrote the GO org board main functions, and LRH would have known that those functions of intel gathering and the main principles of the old GO would be being put into the new OSA org board.
I think LRH just didn’t see that his orders to use those GO/OSA principles that caused the blowback, but he thought people’s bad implementation of these principles he ordered to be used, which caused this blowback on Scientology.
I personally have always thought as good as the people in the GO and OSA were and are as people, sort of the cream of the dedicated crop of Scientologists in some ways, they still were doomed, based on their orders and policy they had to do.
Dylan says
thank you for taking the time and speaking the truth.
Chuck Beatty says
Yes, unbelievable. What a web!
A book offer ought to come your way on all this, if you ask me!