My thanks to Gallery Books for this ad in the New York Times Book Review this week.
A book is an excellent gift for Christmas! Especially A Billion Years… Please keep that in mind as you do your holiday shopping for friends and family.
Kirstie Alley
The passing of Kirstie was announced late last night by her children.
A dedicated scientologist to the end, she did her best to smear me and Leah as all good scientologists do. But despite that, I have fond memories of Kirstie. She has never been anything but over-the-top outrageous and very funny. The only mention I make of her in my book is when she and Parker were getting divorced and I was their meal companion at the Gold Base, though I interacted with her on many other occasions. Her humor and almost obsessive love of animals were endearing.
Though Hubbard claimed to have the cure for cancer — especially on NOTs (New Era Dianetics for OTs) — two of the more prominent scientologists to have died (Kirstie and Kelly Preston) both succumbed to the disease, yet both had done all there was to do on NOTs. (See blog post L. Ron Hubbard on Cancer) Like the other cures promised by Hubbard in Dianetics and thereafter, the real tragedy is that people believe that scientology auditing and/or PTS handling will resolve their physical conditions. Often, seeking solutions through auditing, chiropractors or the latest fad cures only available in Mexico, they delay resorting to medical treatment until it is too late. I fear this may have been the case with Kirstie given the wording of the announcement that her cancer was “only recently discovered.” These days it is not common for cancer to be rapidly terminal if it is diagnosed early.
It’s perhaps the saddest aspect of the whole scientology bag of worms — that people die sooner than they should because of their faith in the promises of Hubbard. He certainly didn’t live up to his own claims — he was a physical and mental mess when he died.
My thoughts are with her children. Losing a mother is something I do not wish on anyone. I don’t know what Lillie and True’s involvement is with scientology today, but perhaps they will look to follow in the footsteps of their father, Parker Stevenson, who never swallowed the Hubbard stories (which is a primary reason Kirstie and he were divorced).
My take on Scientology and medical fraud:
I have since leaving Scientology found an inescapable conclusion – Scientology as part of a massive fraud has convinced hundreds, perhaps over decades thousands, of people to skip conventional medical treatment and instead pursue Scientology and Dianetics for healing. This has included treatable deadly illnesses such as cancer. One might call this slow motion mass murder.
I don’t know the exact number of deaths this has led to, but cannot fathom it being less than hundreds and possibly even thousands of people.
Below is a collection of quotes to begin exploring this theme.
Imagine believing this wholeheartedly:
“There will always be a role for the medical doctor. But his role is not as broad as AMA advertising would like us to believe. The doctor is a handyman desperately valuable in the specific fields of emergency surgery and repair (as needed after accidents), in obstetrics, in orthopedics and as epidemic police. Further he ceases to be valuable. Almost any chemical engineer can administer antibiotics with better results than can a doctor. Any civil engineer knows more about sanitation. Almost all operations as in the field of surgery are needless. And in problems of psychosomatic medicine the doctor has been and is a rather miserable flop — and psychosomatic medicine comprises better than seventy percent of Man’s ills!” Ron Hubbard The Road Up
The Journal of Scientology in March 1954,
This [Scientology] is useful knowledge. With it the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its use the thousand abilities Man has sought to recover become his once more.
Ron Hubbard, SCIENTOLOGY: A HISTORY OF MAN, 1952
Of all the ills of man which can be successfully processed by Scientology, arthritis ranks near the top. In skilled hands, this ailment, though misunderstood and dreaded in the past, already has begun to become history. Twenty-five hours of Scientology by an auditor who fairly understands how to process arthritis can be said to produce an invariable alleviation of the condition. Some cases, even severe ones, have responded in as little as two hours of processing, according to reports from auditors in the field.
Ron Hubbard, “Journal of Scientology,” Issue 1-G, 1952
Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase ‘It turns my blood to water.’
Ron Hubbard, “Journal of Scientology,” Issue 15-G, 1953
Arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away.
Ron Hubbard, DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH, 1987 Ed., p. 72
Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns.
Ron Hubbard, ALL ABOUT RADIATION, p. 109
You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps.
Ron Hubbard, “Eyesight and glasses,” “Dianetic Auditor’s Bulletin,” Vol. 2, No. 7, January 1952
The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now
Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, November 1970, “Psychosis”
Additionally I found several applicable quotes in an article by Jeff Jacobsen.
Cure goiter – Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p. 280
“I’ve seen a goiter the size of a baseball visibly shrink and disappear in the space of one-half hour right after an engram was run.”
Cure polio- Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p. 353
“A girl crippled by polio was able to throw away her crutches after my first session.”
Cure arthritis – History of Man, p. 7
“Today, Eleanor has arthritis. She is audited… tonight she doesn’t have arthritis”
Speed broke bone healing – Dianetics Today (1975 Ed), p.110
“A broken limb will heal (by X-ray evidence) in two instead of six weeks.”
Cure effects of drugs – Dianetics Today, (1975 Ed.), p.481
“ONLY processing by Dianetics and Scientology can handle the effects of drugs fully.”
Raise the dead – Magazine Articles on Level 0, Checksheet 1968, “Dissemination of Material” p.75
“A child had died, was dead, had been pronounced dead by a doctor, and the auditor, by calling the thetan back and ordering him to take over the body again brought the child to life.”
Cure migraines – Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p.125; also see HCOB 15 Jan. ’79 “Handling with Auditing”
Cure cancer – The History Of Man (1961), p. 20
“Cancer has been eradicated by auditing out conception and mitosis.”
Cure skin cancer – All About Radiation (1979 Ed.), p.114
Cure radiation sickness – All About Radiation (1979 Ed.), p.109; also PAB no. 82
“Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns.”
Improve eyesight – PAB no. 111 “Eyesight and glasses”; also Dianetic Auditor’s Bulletin vol. 2 no. 7 January 1952 “An afternoon with Ron”
“You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps.”
Cure a broken ankle – HCOB 30 July 1973 “Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials.”
Cure insanity – HCOB 28 Nov. ’70 “Psychosis”
“The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now…”
Cure bronchitis – HCOB 14 Dec. ’63 “Case analysis Health Research”
“12 days after this auditing the coughing was still in abeyance.”
cure brainwashing – HCOB No. 19 Dec. ’55 “The turn of the Tide”
“… in Dianetics in particular, we have the total antidote for the eradication of brainwashing.”
Miscellaneous claims:
– DIANETICS (1987 ED.) p.72: “arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away.”
– HISTORY OF MAN P.13: “The GE has the record of past deaths. Auditing it alters physical structure, eradicates physical malformations.”
– HISTORY OF MAN P.14: “Paralysis, anxiety stomachs, arthritis and many ills and aberrations have been relieved by auditing them.”
Hubbard wrote that Scientologists taking courses were barred from visiting a doctor without express permission from the church “except in cases of severe emergency.” (HCOPL 26 July 1965 “Release Declaration Restrictions, Healing Amendments)
From
https://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/11/mass-murder-in-scientology-standard-tech.html
Wonderful compilation. Thank you. Do you mind if I preserve this here by reprinting your whole article? It’s an invaluable reference and I want it as widely available as possible?
I would love to have the article reprinted! Thanks!
I also want to add that if you find any post or portion of a post that you want to quote or use in its entirety you have my permission to use it here or anywhere else you would like!
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2020/07/blog-archive-by-topic.html?m=0
Brilliant breakdown on all points. I find myself particularly outraged by the leukaemia is psychosomatic. Guess my daughter at 2.5 years brought it on herself. Ugg, the nonsense of LRH.
Thank you!
I found the entire collection disturbing, to put it mildly!
The original post has a bit more of the same information as well as a breakdown of the fake scientific credentials Hubbard claimed!
https://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/11/mass-murder-in-scientology-standard-tech.html
Someone that I know that is still in, I saw Tuesday for the first time in years. He is probably over thirty years, still active in the pursuit of ot-ism. He said within the first minute of us meeting “another ot died of cancer.” He said it with a very familiar emotion of “just another oddity” and shook his head.
Everyone seems to have a dreaded malaise. Seriously. It now sounds like a morgue from the people on the inside.
Hey, Mike! Look! Your book is right there next to the new one about King Charles III! You must be proud! You must be…….
Oh,no! Comm particle coming in!
To: Alcoboy
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: King Charles III
THERE WILL BE NO CORONATION CEREMONY ON MAY 6 FOR KING CHARLIE! I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO STOP SUCH AN ABOMINATION FROM HAPPENING! ALL BEINGS NEED TO CONTINUALLY WATCH THE SCIENTOLOGY NETWORK AND SINCE WE WON’T BE COVERING THE WOG CORONATION IT MUST BE STOPPED AT ONCE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN WATCH THE SCIENTOLOGY NETWORK INSTEAD!
NO FOX NETWORK!
NO CNN!
NO CORONATION!
ML,
Dave.
To: David Miscavige COB RTC
From: Alcoboy
Re: stopping a royal event.
And just how do you plan to do this? Sabotage the Coronation Theatre being set up inside Westminster Abbey? Plant firecrackers inside St Edwards Crown that go off right when the archbishop places it on Charles’ head? Stage a Scientology event full of lies and misinformation to detract from the coronation? Go ahead and try it, Dwarfenfuhrer! I hope you get caught and sent to the Tower!
No love at all,
Alcoboy.
Wow that full page add in the NYT is EXPENSIVE! A full page ad in the main paper is probably $150,000!
It was in the NYT Book Review section — a weekly insert on Sundays
Yes correct. That might have cost still $75,000
Well, I’d say Kirstie was PTS, she remained connected to a suppressive group run by a sociopath, named Miscavige and did his bidding by attacking and smearing. I’d call that not merely a potential trouble source, but an actual operating one.
Chick Corea also died of cancer. So that makes the Big Three celebs in Scn died of cancer. Chick Corea was also OT VIII.
Corea at least made it to 79, though at best that’s around average for someone of financial means and with college education.
Don’t forget South Park’s Isaac Hayes who died on a treadmill during the purif! (Stroke)
thanks. That counts too. I think they went out gradient with him on the Purif an he should have ease into the treadmeal on more of a gradient.
While I was never a big fan of Kirstie Alley I am saddened by her death. It makes me think of all the Jehovah’s Witnesses who might be living today had they gotten a blood transfusion but refused it because Judge Rutherford told them that it wasn’t biblical (the Bible says no such thing). Same with Kirstie. Believing that OT8 and New Era Dianetics will cure everything is what led to her dying at such a premature age. My heart goes out to her family as do my prayers.
She died of colon cancer. Not sure if a blood transfusion would have helped her, Alco. Colon cancer takes years to develop. Its a kind of self-poisoning that accumulates and eventually causes tumors, etc. Colon cancer doesn’t just appear. It takes years of toxic build up before it manifests as cancer, and by then its usually too late. Overall many years of bad eating habits did her in.
Blood transfusion was a comment wrt Jehovas Witness’ beliefs.
Oh! I see now. Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t know that about JWs!
True and no disrespect meant toward Kirstie. Everything you said is correct. My gripe is with the claims of Dianetics and Scientology. You know, go clear and you can throw away your glasses. Go OTVIII and you’ll never be sick again. I don’t know Kirstie’s whole story but I wonder if she rejected conventional medicine because of her faith in the tech.
Again, I don’t know.
I hear you on everything. Yes, the absurd claims about being “Cause over life” or “Cause over MEST” – total, but total lies. And I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that she rejected conventional medicine entirely on her own. Maybe she was trying to get her OT8 money’s worth, you know? Forking over all that dough, and then, whoops, what’s this, I thought I was OT and this wouldn’t/couldn’t ever happen; well, I’m OT8, let me postulate this away…something like that.
I recall an OT7 back in the day explaining to me why his 2 pack a day cigarette habit would never make him sick, would/could never effect him adversely in any way, because he was OT7. So I asked him, OK, so smoking won’t ever hurt you, OK, but other than satisfying your addiction to nicotine, does it help you? In what way does it or can it help you, I asked him. Now, I don’t recall his answer. And as snotty as my question to him sounded (and was), as someone who was at that time a cigarette smoker for nearly 20 years, I felt entitled to ask it. I don’t recall his reply but whatever it was didn’t answer my question. As a smoker (then) I knew that the only reason I smoked was my craving for nicotine. But here is this guy spouting off about how it could never hurt him because he’s an OT7. Out of respect for an OT I didn’t press him further and dropped the subject and never mentioned it again to him or anyone, but at the same time it registered high on my BS meter and stayed there for 25 years.
So the statement on “sudden” colon cancer and death does not match up with Google searches
How long do you live after being diagnosed with colon cancer?
If the cancer is diagnosed at a localized stage, the survival rate is 91%. If the cancer has spread to surrounding tissues or organs and/or the regional lymph nodes, the 5-year survival rate is 72%. If colon cancer has spread to distant parts of the body, the 5-year survival rate is 14%.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+fast+does+colon+cancer+kill+you
There is no such thing as “sudden” colon cancer. Cancerous tumors don’t just attack a healthy colon. That is bullshit, if you’ll forgive the pun.
Tumors take years to appear. Years, possibly decades of daily faulty elimination, toxic buildup in the colon, impacted waste which never gets eliminated. Its poisonous, this material and it increases and backs up into the bloodstream, causing impure blood, diverticuli, hemorrhoids, etc. etc – years of this colon abuse and then in its last stage the tumor appears. What goes in must be processed so that the body gets what it needs. What the body DOESN’T need is meant to COME OUT, and it MUST come out, regularly. Very regularly. Because what it doesn’t need quickly becomes toxic when it REMAINS in the colon. Its NOT supposed to stay there ! And each of us has a minimum of 8 feet of colon – 8 feet! So if you don’t want to get cancer eventually – maybe not in the colon – maybe somewhere else in the body – auto intoxication over the years can cause a tumor to come out anywhere eventually – then you’d best be certain to eliminate VERY regularly.
My mother in law died of pancreatic cancer. She was misdiagnosed for 2 years. By the time she was correctly diagnosed, she was at stage 4 and lived 2 months. No, she wasn’t a scientologist. My husband’s 2 stepmoms both died of brain cancer. The worst one anyone can experience. Cancer sucks.
So sorry to hear that. Yes, cancer sucks bad.
I’m sorry, Susan. I lost relatively young people from cancer who were very dear to me as well. They were not Scientologists. Cancer does not target upper level Scientologists. The OT levels of themselves don’t cause people to get cancer, as in the Xenu story, etc. The Xenu story is definitely whacko and off the reservation but its harmless, it has no power. People in all religions believe all kinds of whacky woo. These crazy beliefs – going back to the Greek myths, before that the Egyptian myths about the afterlife, and then of course Christianity”s magic with the virgin birth, coming back to life after being dead for 3 days, walking on water; the Jewish Old Testament magic with the parting of the Red Sea, a guy getting swallowed up by a whale and staying in the whale’s stomach for 3 days and then the whale spitting him out, whole and perfectly fine: 1 male and 1 female of every specie of animal fitting into an ark (how did they feed the carnivores, the tigers, the lions, etc.,I always wonder; I mean, what a bloody mess every day) and last but not least, making a man out of dust and then taking one of his ribs and making a female human…Oh, and my favorite – an wicked, talking snake. There is so much bullshit that people actually believe that its not even funny. Believing fiction like this because its in the Bible might make them kind of dumb but doesn’t give them cancer.
I am a Christian and have been for many years. My faith has gotten me through the best of times and the absolute I-wouldn’t-wish-this-on-my-worst-enemy times. Hebrews 11:1 speaks of how faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. At least the churches I have been a member of have never went after me, or targeted me, for leaving them or criticizing them. A good read, for those who are skeptical of what the Bible has to say, is Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell. I’m not here to preach or get you to change your mind, so I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on this blog.
I’m not in the least offended and I apologize if I offended you or anyone else here. I share your conviction that faith in something is necessary for each of us. I suppose the only possible argument would be or could be how, and in what, one’s faith is placed, but I think its wrong to quibble with others’ beliefs because what gives someone help and sustenance and inspiration is sacred to that person.
I have my own “brand” of faith, my own spiritual foundation one might call it, although it does not fully conform or wholly align with any established religion of which I’m aware. I deeply believe in God or whatever one chooses to call God, which is a name for a force of some sort outside the realm of our 5 senses. Life is an overall miracle comprised of millions, billions of miracles that each of us wants and needs explained. For the record, i love and admire Christian PRINCIPLES and consider them principles to practice and/or aspire to whenever possible but I just don’t believe in Christian “magic”. Nor do I believe in any Jewish magic, by the way.
But then, many people do believe in these things and its fine by me. To illustrate:
A dear friend of my late mother, who was herself a mother of 3 children, told me that it had taken 10 years for her to become pregnant. She and her husband had been young Catholics, 32 years old, married for 10 years and childless.
They had wed barely out of their teens and had both been to doctors and pronounced healthy and fertile, etc. etc but yet she hadn’t become pregnant, Dottie told me that finally she went to her priest and the priest told her to make a Novena (I think that’s what its called) to the Virgin Mary. Though not particularly devout at the time nor was her husband. But she’s been married for 10 years, had a healthy sex life with her husband, certainly had been doing nothing to prevent conception yet had remained childless, and was now desperate to have a baby. She did the Novena and became pregnant soon afterwards, a totally healthy pregnancy, and a baby boy. Then, she wanted more children and made more Novenas, etc., and had quickly following 2 more healthy pregnancies, another boy and and then girl. This lady, beloved of our family, just the nicest person, swore that the Novena(s) to the Virgin, her prayers and so forth allowed her to become pregnant. Now, do I believe this? No. But SHE does (did, she passed away years ago) and so would not dream of contradicting her or even suggesting that other factors might have caused her to – whatever – relax enough inside or whatever so that conception finally occurred. Today I believe that her FAITH in something caused it because her faith changed her. So, long story short, I think its important to have faith in SOMETHING although what each person firmly believes can vary, and that’s oK.
She was horrible to you and Leah but I think your acknowledgment of the good with the bad was amazing. Very few people have no redeeming qualities. It is a shame that she never got free.
I agree, Mike Rinder was beautifully tactful in his statement.
My first thoughts about Kirstie Alley went to the way she treated you and Leah, but mostly I feel sad for her. She never got free, never got to breathe free again, never again got to live a life outside of Scientology. Unlike so many who eventually woke up and were able to enjoy life free on the ‘outside’, we have no indications that she ever did.
Every case of a person losing their life to Hubbard’s lies is a tragedy.
ANOTHER NOTS cancer death. Great stats for scamology
The problem with NOTs ( OT 7 and OT 8 ) as it is done in the church is that it only gets to the low hanging fruit of that part of the case.
Capt. Bill Robertson discovered this and did a handling for it that took that part of the case to a completion. It is called Excalibur.
In other words the church version of this part of the OT case leaves the OT ( Kristie or anyone else ) incomplete on the level. Does that leave you vulnerable to cancer and other ailments because you have inflamed the OT case and then left it as complete when it is not complete at all? I personally think it does.
Having done OT 3 through Excalibur I would definitely say you do not want to go down this OT road in a half-ass manner. Once you start on OT 3 you want to carry on all the way through OT 8 and get it ALL ! I do not believe it is possible for anyone to achieve this goal in the current church.
I didn’t know Kristie at all. I did see her often at Flag …..I feel a bit sorry for her because I do believe she really was trying hard …….just like a lot of other Scientologist who were betrayed.
Do you believe too that the Marcabian forces have landed here on earth? (And that humans are infested with Body Thetans?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpapI5xeF0E
Chris Shelton about Bill Robertson: 7:01 –> “…. Alex Jones level insanity …”
https://tonyortega.org/2013/03/30/the-ballad-of-captain-bill/ – Independent Scientology: The Ballad of Captain Bill
Well all I can say is I am very glad I did Excalibur. It worked all the way through and was just beautiful at the very end.
I’m highly aware of the mess surrounding Scientology but still I am very happy that I got involved. Getting all the way through Excalibur ( OT 7 and 8 essentially ) and doing the L’s was the very best decision I could have ever made for myself.
My only regret is that I didn’t leave the church earlier and get the services that were available in the field from high trained auditors who had left as well.
Dear KFrancis: I also enjoyed each action I did, including I found the L’s to be stabilizing and illuminating. Loved all the training I did, especially Data Series, and got a lot out of Super Power.
What do I mean by this: Next to people with whom I work, it takes a lot to get me to a spot of out and out hate and criticism of others. I can wade through peppery discussions without being too easily agitated or “keyed in” or “triggered” or whatever you want to call it. I can remain composed to hear and comprehend many viewpoints and not flip out or feel inclined to scold or correct others all based on my opinion only.
This kind of diplomatic skill and willing comprehension of fellow humans is constructive and helpful. When employed sincerely, these make for good relationship skills. Also, my willingness to duplicate. I honed that through auditor training and co-auditing on the Objectives. Enjoyed those actions very much.
Too bad this once promising garden (Scientology) got so overgrown with weeds. Like you and many others in this blog community, I do, however, take a few plants that I seeded and nourished with me.
Soo Nice…..what a very thoughtful comment.
What was beautiful at the end of OT III? What did the meter show? How did you know you were done?
There are timelines where that is true and we are not all living on the same timeline, the internet is a nexus point for billions of timelines, therefore we all have differnt realities that are true that do not agree with each other.
KFrancis, get your brainectomy reversed then go get deprogrammed.
‘Captain’ Bill also died young of cancer.
As another posted. Bill Robertson died from throat cancer at I believe the age of 54. He certainly finished Excalibur and another 20 OT levels he invented yet still he got cancer and died from it. I’m surprised KFrancis that you would not be aware of this or perhaps you just discount reality to stay comfortable in your beliefs.
Very sad new about Kirstie’s passing and my heart goes out to her children but you do wonder if she was in denial thinking she could take vitamins and do auditing to beat the cancer.
My brother completed OT VIII as a Sea Org member and he has had malignant melanoma and other serious health issues since then so its just another piece of evidence to prove Hubbards technology is a total scam and does not work. I also have to chuckle about their claims of not needing glasses yet they hide behind contact lenses…it’s all smoking mirrors of deception.
Mike your comment ,2nd last para ,
“He ( LRH) certainly didn’t live up to his own claims — he was a physical and mental mess when he died” said all about the past, present and future.
The fate of followers are not different from the founder, going through same loss and despair after getting nothing out of ( pay as you go) journey.
Only Devine ( main stream) religons are answer to human curiosity about its own existence.
It’s free and for all and brought changes in human life ,individually and collectively.
First of all it is always sad, really sad when someone passes still in the trap and imprisoned in this hideous cult without having woken up.
I had a leak that it was bowel cancer. ie Colon cancer.
2ND OF ALL, it is beneficial for the cult to say “short cancer spell and death.”
I do not believe this “shore story” for a moment.
WHY ?
#1 It gets the cult off the hook of exposing their BT/CLuster handlings on Kirstie for months and months
#2 It portrays that the cult send people to medicine pronto.
#3 It hides the fact that Kirstie audited her attached spirits over a period of 20-30 years according to others who were “on the level” with her at the sandcastle by telling the “shore story” of fast pacing volcanic cancer that arose and killed promptly.
In actual fact modern medicine have extraordinary ways to keep someone alive for a while with cancer and *sudden* cancer deaths are few and far between.
I know the adopted 2 children stated that that but I lean towards the opinion that it was carefully crafted with OSA editing
Bingo, Karen. This was no “sudden” cancer death. I’m not a betting person but I’d bet double or nothing every cent of my meager fortune that her cancer was kept under wraps for quite some time, and as usual the cult is covering its cowardly back. Although in fairness she herself could have been wholly on board with refusing medical help for her condition.
Thank you for the two informative posts. I was sure how to react to her passing. She was horrible to Mike and others but you all show kindness to her and her family which shows a lot of class. R.I.P Kirstie.
I guess even at the end OSA had their claws on her and family. You’d think these recent deaths would wake SOME members up.
ANGRY GAY POPE MEETS KIRSTIE ALLEY IN ONE OF MY BEST VIDEOS!
https://youtu.be/-bDm9xal1Og
Kirstie Alley’s neighbors were no fans of her shutting down streets for her Organic Liaison chub cure scam which later blew up in her face legally.
Protesters Happy Smurf, Mark Bunker and I watch Kirstie and her son launch the soon to fail brand right across from the House of Pies. You could smell pie in the air. Who opens a fat farm across from that?
I am happy to see the positive press your book is getting. Well deserved!
Now that Tony Ortega is prominent in the Rolling Stone cover our friends at STAAND will be whipped into a frenzy of s**t slinging. In 3…. 2….1…
I just read Tony Ortega’s article in Rolling Stone. It’s a wowser. I loved it.
Colonoscopy. They are no fun at all, but they work.
No fun at all?
I can’t imagine why anyone would disparage colonoscopies when they are one of the best tools for diagnosing cancer early.
A colonoscopy may sound like it would be unpleasant. But that could not be further from the truth. I have had a few and from the moment I entered the clinic until the moment I left, I never had a single unpleasant moment.
They put you to sleep and so you never feel a thing. The only unpleasant thing is thinking about what happens whey you are out.
So do not listen to any negative talk about colonoscopies. There is nothing to fear at all.
There are few things you can do to maintain good health above getting a colonoscopy every five years.
Yea, I woke up from the propofol and said “Hey, when are you going to start?”
The only thing I hated about it was the prep.
That describes my experience as well. I asked when the procedure was going to happen. It was already over.
Ran, Splunk’s comment about colonoscopies doesn’t sound disparaging to me. He/she did not say the procedure was painful or even unpleasant, nor advise that one not get them. He/she merely said they’re not fun but they work. Must every useful action also be “fun”? Anyone over the age of 18 usually recognizes that life has a lost list of necessary to be done, useful, helpful actions which are not necessarily “fun” things to do.
Edit: …a long, not “lost” list.
I’m fairly certain that when I read that post, the proviso, “but they work” was not present. I believe it was edited and added after the fact.
Had I seen that part of the post, I would not have said that post was dispariging.
If I am mistaken, I certainly will apologize.
You are mistaken, but you don’t have to apologize.
I have had 3 of them already due to family history. I stand by my statement that they are no fun and that they work.
@ Ran Talbott,
Thanks for your reply! Totally understood, and no worries, and I should probably apologize to you! Anyway, have to run. I’m late for my colonoscopy 🙂
Posters only get 5 minutes to ‘edit’ their posts when they are posted and then the posts are ‘moderated’ (sometimes quickly sometimes not) and published. So there is no way to ‘edit’ a post later on and add something. That’s why oftentimes people will make a post attached to their original post since they cannot edit their post fast enough in case of accidents. You will note the lack of an ‘edit’ button on your post once it is published by a moderator. Just thought I would throw that out there in case of any confusion.
The colonoscopy is no problem, but I admit the prep is pretty awful. But it’s over in one night, and as my proctologist said, “This is the only tool we have right now that detects problems that can develop into cancer BEFORE they do.” Worth every nasty swallow the night before!
Aha! Now I remember. I didn’t know what that post meant by “the prep”. There is no unpleasant prep after entering the doctor’s clinic.
By “the prep”, people were referring to the day before the procedure.
You have to void your colon completely or the procedure cannot be done.
So you have to take some unpleasant tasting medication which voids the colon.
That is not a pleasant experience. But it’s not like breaking an arm and it’s certainly not like being told you have cancer.
Sorry. I entirely forgot about the procedure the day before when one has to void the colon. But all in all, such a tiny price to pay to know you won’t likely be suffering from some kind of cancer and spend the rest of your life defecating into a bag. Can you imagine?
Very sorry if I offended anyone.
35 years ago I drank a gallon of Fleet, an orange flavored powder, and was clean as a whistle. I was going fine until I told the nurse to get out of my view of the monitor. Things went blank and I woke up in recovery… I was pissed that they knocked me out . No pain at no point.
No need to apologize. You do not offend in the least. Anyone who is offended by what you wrote is a fool. Your honesty and candor are to be applauded. Colon cancer is a preventable nightmare.
Years ago, I was going to have a colonoscopy. Did the prep though I have problems with certain tastes and I kept wanting to throw up. They were ready to give me meds which help me fall asleep and they called it off as I had a small tear in my colon. Ugh. Haven’t tried since.
Thanks Mike for all you do.
Kirstie’s death is so sad, and perhaps unnecessary.
Of course, I have no way of knowing what led to KA’s early demise. I believe cocaine addiction and substance dependence can play a part in early death. We lost Carrie Fisher at age 60; she was a known cocaine user in her youth.
Overweight and bad food habits are definitely a factor in cancer and early death. While Kirstie appeared to yo-yo diet, bad food choices over her lifetime could not have been helpful to her health.
Kirstie credited Scientology with getting her off of cocaine. Religious beliefs can give the illusion of that kind of salvation, but they’re trading one addiction for another one. Do we have any way of knowing how much of Kirstie’s money got funneled into the cult?
Certainly the idea that a religious belief is “the cure” for everything can compound the issue. A family member of mine died of cancer in their mid-70s. They followed Katherine Kuhlman, a tent preacher, scam artist, and “faith healer” who wrote “I Believe in Miracles”. On the person’s death bed, after ignoring signs, not seeking medical intervention, and no regular check ups, the person passed thinking Jesus was going to heal them. When they “felt better” they attributed it to “a miracle” rather than the palliative care they were receiving. It was heartbreaking!
I can only speculate about Kirstie’s situation.
I loved her in Star Trek II. I was sorry she didn’t return! But evidently she demanded more money than DeForest Kelly was making!
I’m very sad that she succumbed to the cult and finally to this horrible disease. May she RIP.
In her youth, Kirstie Alley kept her weight down, well, because of her youth, certainly, but also because of her cocaine habit. Cocaine kills the appetite. When she kicked cocaine her appetite came back with a vengeance. And then don’t forget she was getting Scientology auditing, and for that you must EAT, in order to be “sessionable”. Ditto being on course in a Scientology Org. You must EAT or else you are not “studentable”. Now, eating a lot is ok if you’re eating plenty of the right stuff, i.e, lean protein, green veggies, a little fresh fruit, NO refined sugar and only a few high quality carbs. But someone coming off of cocaine has adrenal glands that are SHOT. Intense cravings for sugar and starch. Same deal with alcohol and heroin addiction. You’ll rarely find an overweight alcoholic or a junkie. But once they kick these habits, whoa, they blimp up because refined sugar and highly refined starchy foods, and lots and lots of caffeine take the place of the drugs and booze in their systems. Serious, chronic hypoglycemia, the kind that can only be cured by a highly disciplined food intake and vitamins, particularly the B Vitamins but a full complement of vitamins continually over a period of years. Not easy to do. Damn near impossible if you’re doing Scientology with its intense pressures.
i was so sad to hear of the premature death of kirstie i am a 74 year old retired social worker from long island and have been following leah and mike for years at one time in my career i studied cults just to let you know many of us feel powerless and angry what can we average people do to help these poor victims?
So many times a Scientologist who had reached the highest levels stood before the crew to give some big “success story” about how NOTs auditing and LRH had cured them of cancer, yack, yack, yack. There would be clapping and the usual Hip, Hip, Hooray to LRH. Then 2 months later the person was dead. It became so common that I would silently think to myself “Oh no, here we go again”. Pretty sad. It would be interesting to list everyone that had ever completed OT 8 and later died of cancer. I don’t know what the % would be but I know its extremely high.
Thanks for your comment Mat. When you say the percentage of people who complete OT VIII and later die of cancer is “extremely high” what do you mean? Do you mean higher than it is in the regular, non-Scn world? I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just genuinely interested.
Possibly someone reading this worked in the Senior C/S Office at INT or some other position that had access to the actual information and they can comment. I remember hearing that of the Scientologists that completed OT 8 on the maiden voyage of the Freewinds, within a year, 28 had either died from or were seriously ill with cancer. I don’t know how that compares to non Scientologists of the same age group but it was looked at as a real problem and a bit of a mystery. From a Scientologists viewpoint, no one would expect even a single OT 8 to be dying of cancer. These were supposed to be super duper OTs that had made it all the way up the Bridge and were now CAUSE OVER LIFE. The mother of my good friend was a major Scientology opinion leader in Clearwater and one of the original OT 8’s. As she laid dying from cancer my friend (a public Scientologist) was all upset and stating that he didn’t understand how this could be happening to an OT 8!!! Sadly he asked her on her death bed what her out ethics was that had caused her to “pull in the cancer”. He was raised a Scientologist and this was how he was brought up to think. In an effort to contain the bad PR being created by my friend flapping about how his OT 8 mother was dying of cancer, OSA had me go to his house and try to respond to his concerns and help settle him down. It bothers me to this day that he looked upon the death of his beautiful mother that way. There is so much I would like to say to him if not for the disconnection policy keeping us apart.
Does anyone know how may or roughly how many OT VIII’s were on the maiden voyage?
Wasn’t this the one where LRH said he was the antichrist and it was all considered so anti religious that LRH changed OT VIII to take out all that satan and anti christ stuff? I wonder if having that first OT VIII satan and anti christ stuff could have something to do with the high cancer and death rates from it for those OT VIII’s?
Cindy, I’m jumping in here to point out that many old time Scientologists were also cigarette smokers their entire lives. There is the tobacco/nicotine/carcinogenic chemicals in the cigarrette paper factor to consider with a group that has a high rate of death by cancer. Someone I went to school with died at 53 of lung cancer. She was 100 lbs overweight and smoked from the age of 15. Dead at 53. She wasn’t a Scientologist.
Along with smoking, there’s another factor to consider as re the high death rate of OT8s, i.e, the extreme stress that they endure, the constant pressure, the blame for Scientology not expanding.
I’m not a medical person but for whatever its worth I doubt whether OT auditing alone gave anyone cancer. I highly doubt it.
I know an OT8 who had a quadruple bipass operation a few years ago. So, auditing gave him severely clogged arteries? I think not. A lifelong tobacco habit and too many barbequed spareribs would be the more likely causes, I’d bet.
Point being, there are people who are at high risk for cancer due to their lifestyles, what they eat, what they don’t eat, and if they smoke, and if they’re under continual, heavy stress. Check it out.
PS: To expand a bit as regards the extreme stress under which I believe the OT8s live, consider what they believe, i.e., that we have only this “brief breath in eternity” to “reverse the dwindling spiral” in order to prevent Mankind from “descending into another Dark Age”…and, as OTs, its ALL up to THEM.
No really – they BELIEVE this. They “KNOW” this.
And what are they DOING about this dire situation, wherein the fate of all life and mankind etc. as we know it is on THEIR shoulders, because THEY are OTs?
The answer is: Nothing. They’re doing NOTHING about it. And they KNOW they’re doing nothing. They are FAILURES (they believe). Scientology is NOT expanding. Its contracting. They have no powers, there’s no OT magic they can utilize to grow their orgs, bring people in. They’re NOT clearing the planet. And again, and this cannot be over-emphasized, its ALL UP TO THEM.
Stressful? Uh – yeah! I’d say so! In fact, believing what they do, its a miracle these Still In OTs don’t die even younger.
Thank you Aqua. Everything you say is sound. Besides the factors of lifestyle, smoking or not, etc, you mention continual stress. I’d say OT VIII’s were under continual stress: giving to the IAS as well as paying for the level, having to be on the OT Committee and reg others for money, being told the non-expansion of Scn is your fault, all these things are constant stress. That alone is a big factor in getting cancer and other things.
It wasn’t LRH that changed the original OTVIII. He was long dead by the time the Maiden Voyage of the Freewinds happened. Miscavige changed OTVIII. Who knows if LRH even really wrote OTVIII or if it was something Miscavige had cobbled together from LRHs last writings.
I seriously doubt anything about ‘satan’ had anything to do with the cancer rates among the first OTVIIIs. Probably the most logical cause is that the Freewinds is absolutely full of blue asbestos. One of the most deadly kinds of asbestos. Has it been removed yet? We don’t know. I seriously doubt it. But at the time when the Freewinds was first purchased and refitted to be a cruise type ship it was full of this asbestos. It could not have been good for the people exposed to it.
Incorrect Linear13. Miss Cabbage didn’t change the materials until it leaked and was considered “out PR” AFTER the first public did it on the ship. I spoke at length to the first Ship Snr. C/S who saw the original LRH OT VIII materials when training for the post at Int.
Sorry I should have been more specific. The OP (Cindy) was referring to those who had experienced original OTVIII at Maiden Voyage which was only, as far as I know, given to public the one time…at the Maiden Voyage. Then Miscavige changed it. Which is what I stated. Albeit simply. I guess it was an assumption on my part that everyone grokked her post being about the Maiden Voyage version. She was thinking LRH had it changed and he was long gone by that time.
Then I hypothesized that for all we know OTVIII was cobbled together by Miscavige from LRH writings. Who knows. LRH hasn’t returned yet to set Miscavige straight lol.
I was told by a Staff Member at Natural Dentistry that Dr Behm OT 8 died from Melanoma Center, got it on his face then spread to other parts of body.
To add to your comment, Deneice, OT VIII physician, Dr Megan Shields, died of cancer.
What a formidable ally she would have been if she was able to escape the prison of her mind and join us. Many would have followed her. RIP indeed and thank you for the laughs Kirstie.
I doubt it SL1978. ALL the orgs are empty at this point in time. Any public still clinging on are so delusional that they would just say she was an SP if she left.
I agree they are empty Truth. Yet Leah Remini left because Debbie Cook had an impactful message. You never know who is almost out and what the words of one person can change. I still have faith one of Mike’s kids will wake up one day. If you are reading this kids, walk out the door…
RIP. Your intentions were good. Unfortunately you were lied to and conned like the rest of us.
I never liked her, not as a performer. I didn’t think she was a good actor. She was somewhat amusing on Cheers. Nor did I like her “persona”. I use that term because I didn’t know her personally. I only knew the personality she projected which may not have been who she really was. Well, what she mostly projected I mostly didn’t like. I can’t pretend that I feel anything about her passing. Not that I’m glad. Just that, like Morales in Chorus Line, I’m feeling nothing.
What I can honestly and positively say is that I liked her for her love of animals in general, the way she took in strays both domestic and feral, and in particular for her commitment to ending circus animal abuse. She was obviously passionate about these causes. I’ve long thought that if she had devoted herself to these animal rights causes she would have been an effective voice. She did have a force about her. She had presence. People paid attention when she spoke. I’m sorry that someone who cared about these issues as much as she did passed without realizing the effective solutions for animal rights she could have furthered if she had devoted herself publicly to these causes.
I’m also sorry for the grief that her loved ones are experiencing.
I was a Never In. I will not say anything about the premature death of Kirstie Alley.
To borrow an ex-Mormon phrase — bad health was an early “shelf item” for me. I distinctly recall the day I, not yet a teen, pored over later photos of Ron in the then-newly released “Images of a Lifetime” hagiography. Every single picture from those final years flouted the first point of “The Way to Happiness,” an LRH leaflet I’d been made to memorize, which says: “Take Care of Yourself.”
As the recognition of such naked hypocrisy dawned in my mind, another observation struck — hard. I’d been glancing at this new photo-based book in the lobby — “Reception” — of our local Org, not five feet from the now-downplayed but still highly culty feature of every Scientology building: a lavishly-appointed, uninhabited office set aside “for LRH” in anticipation of his return. The mind-gymnasts would shrug it off as merely symbolic, a “respectful gesture” carried on from the days when such a space had real utility (i.e., when Ron was alive). Honest adherents acknowledged the real reason it was mandated. Nevertheless, something immediately stood out to me as I looked over at “our” Ron’s office: the pack of Kools set off to one side of his desktop.
Hubbard had been a heavy smoker. You could hear the clop of his Zippo in some of the lectures. It was a known fact about his life. To the degree that his favorite brand was known by the old guard (Kools). Yet this giant coffee table monograph before me, a photographic chronicle of LRH’s life, contained *not a single hint* that he had ever smoked. Every picture of that activity had been deliberately, painstakingly omitted.
I began to wonder: if they’re lying so blatantly about this, what else might not be true?
My freedom began that day.
SO MANY OTs die of cancer. Is it the delayed mainstream treatment? Unquestionably. Though I also suspect — with no scientific support — that coursing e-meter electricity through your body for as many years as OT VII comps do can’t be discarded as a contributing factor.
People (including Aaron) go to the PTS/SP stuff when addressing the given “why” for cancer in Scientology. I’m no tech-maven but the references I was shown were much, much more sinister: basically accusing the sufferer of sexual deviancy. Sexual “abberation.” Something about cancer cells being a confused or misdirected 2D (procreative) impulse. Absolutely horrific. By the way, these were read to a friend of mine who had contracted (and was killed by) leukemia — a friend who was 12.
The end of Scientology is long overdue.
Re:”… faith in the promises of Huubard.”
During my twenty-first year in scientology, I nearly succumbed to cancer. I had delayed seeking medical treatment until it was almost too late. I knew something was wrong with me physically. Luckily, the scientology front group I worked for at the time, Management Success, just happened to get health insurance for its employees. I don’t know the extent to which my involvement with scientology kept me from seeking proper medical care, but getting health insurance saved my life.
After completing chemotherapy twenty-two years ago, I asked my medical oncologist, “How much time did I have to live if I had not sought treatment for cancer?” “You had about two-and-a-half months before your condition would have been irreversable,” he replied.
I have been cancer-free ever since.
My approach to seeking proper medical treatment for any physical condition has changed dramatically, to say the least.
Sixteen years after chemotherapy, in 2014, I fell away from scientology almost by accident. The blogs of Mike Rinder and Tony Ortega caught me, dusted me off, and helped turned my life around.
During my thirty-seven years in that fake church, I devoted myself to working for multiple scientology front groups. I even worked two years for the Office of Special Affairs as an Independent Contractor when Mike Rinder was the head guy at OSA.
One of those front groups, the American Snack Food Company, run by Murray Gould, kept me busy for years, earning spare change (and then some) from various events throughout southern California. One of those events takes place annually in Pomona: the Los Angeles County Fair. That is where I sold a hot soft pretzel to Kirstie Alley and her then- husband, Parker Stevenson.
Farewell and fare well, Kirstie.
Well done, Fred. I Survived Terminal AiIDS doing just what you did.
I am glad you did, too, Bill. I’m glad you’re here. I appreciate your contributions to this blog.
Fred, I’m so glad you got medical help in time. And that you took care of yourself to remain cancer free ever since. I’m glad you didn’t do what some Scns were told to do: go see a chiropractor or nutritionist or alternative medicine person. You’re still here cuz you didn’t fall for that stuff. (no disrespect to chiros or nutritionists or alternative medicine people. They are good and have their place. But cancer is big time and requires big guns.)
Hi, Cindy
Yes, cancer truly demands big guns. The medical profession did everything (and then some) to save my life. Dr. Ucar, my medical oncologist, is one of the most helpful, sincere individuals around. His Glendale, CA office provided skilled staff indeed.
Looking back, if I had been making big bucks when diagnosed with cancer, I probably would have turned to my scientology org for help.
I had, by that time, been seeing Dr. Stephen Price at Shaw Health Center for my chiropractic needs. I became acquainted with him in the late 1970’s. He is a very good doctor, yet I never thought of seeing him for my cancer concerns.
I thank my lucky stars that I’m still here and got to witness my own departure from that fake church, the cult of Scientology.
We’ve seen over the past few years scientology technology at work.
The death of several more OT 8’s.
Families and lives are still being destroyed.
A Billion Years saves and will continue to save the lives of those it gets out of this cult and those it prevents from getting into it.
It really doesn’t matter who it is or what they believe I hate to see someone die too young. She died too young. IMO, she was lead down this path by a person who was, at best, a c grade science fiction writer. However, he sold his bill of goods to many people. Some saw the light and got out, others were not and are not that lucky. She was not that lucky. This is one of the reasons I would like to see this cult go down. The twit at the top could care less other than there will be less money coming in from her pocket. fRom what I have read about him that is all he cares about.
Money will not buy you happiness. Not even a reasonable facsimile. And davey boy just keeps on selling the pipe dream, and some keep buying it. Literally, buying it.
Sad
“She was not that lucky.” Luck had nothing to do with it, safetyguy. People don’t leave this cult because they’re lucky. They leave because they see things. They observe certain things that are wrong, and having seen these things, and knowing they are wrong, can’t look away and justify them any more. That’s why they leave. That’s why they pay the price for leaving, because the pain of staying via pretending not to know what they know is greater than the penalties the cult exacts for leaving. It might take years, or decades or it might happen right away or it might have occurred at any time between but at some point every one who has left has made that decision to see what they saw, to know what they know, and not pretend otherwise. And those who stay are choosing to live their own lies, and that has to be very stressful, for them, I would think, as well as illness producing, IMO. They make their own luck, via their own decisions.
I know I sound horrid. I’m sorry. But I’m not erasing any of this. Because its true and the number of premature deaths of Still In OT8s bears this out. Their lives were filled with the extreme unrelenting stress of lying to themselves, lying to others, and constantly propitiating a ruthless, greedy, lying cult. That’s why they die too young.
Good comments Aquamarine.
Also Kirstie Alley smoked, was 100 lbs overweight or more, and did cocaine and other drugs in her younger years. Also I can’t help but wonder if the OT VIII’s felt gyped to find out after all the time and money and Sec Checks and Conditions they did, that they were not any of the people they had said they were based on things run in session? They find out these beingnesses they thought they’d been on the whole track were not them and that at the end of OT VIII they are set to find out who they really are. I’d feel gyped at that. That is stress to then have to go back to the masses of Scns and pretend you had huge wins on OT VIII when in reality you were disappointed in the level. To have to keep the charade alive for those others would be stressful to you.
I didn’t know she still smoked, at her age. Assuming she started in her late teens or early twenties that would add up to forty-odd years of cigarette smoking. Apart from the other factors, i.e. obesity, ongoing, intense stress, that she was a lifelong smoker alone catapulted her into the high risk for cancer category.
I didn’t say she was a life long smoker. I know she did smoke in her younger days, but not sure if she quit and if so when she quit.
I see.