Why do they keep advertising their failures?
Seriously, this guy didnt handle the restim from a general anaesthetic on Dianetics or NOTs or two previous Purifs?
For sure they didn’t give his money back for those failures — or even credit.
This is part of the “thought stopping” that goes on inside the bubble. It is such an ironbound law that you never invalidate anyone’s wins that they will shout absolute nuttiness from the rooftops and not even notice it’s crazy.
Somehow they have convinced the sheeple that there is a “technical breakthrough” on the Purif with GAG II and now it’s “better”? Because they wear uniforms in the sauna now? Have vitamin dispensers? Or is it because they insist you stay in the sauna for longer than before? In which case, it is an admission that the Purif was being “quickied” the whole time? And there is NO responsibility for the fact that everyone previously was ripped off with the squirrel Purif delivery. Miscavige did NOT find secret papers “expanding upon”the Purif so it is now “what LRH intended” — everything about the Purif is in the book. It’s simply proof that with a willing audience and enough hype you can get them to believe anything….
(click to enlarge)
C’mon Mike…third time’s a charm!!
The wins I’ve read from GAG-ME-WITH-A-SPOON tech have been more and more “OT” – esoteric and theetie weetie. For example:
“I know I am the creator of all universes”
“I can see that I will survive for an eternity, and every eternity after that”
“I was totally exterior with full perceptions and saw my entire whole track”
“I can create universe after universe anytime I want”
“I’m no longer the effect of my case”
“I created and destroyed seven universes before breakfast this morning”
“My case is in a different universe”
“I can see other people’s case”
Compare this to real/tangible wins, such as:
How about getting in good physical shape? (that means you, Krusty Alley)
How about having a good marriage?
How about you’re kids doing well?
How about doing well at your job?
How about achieving something that really helps people?
How about building a successful business?
How about helping another person that involves more than getting out your credit card?
These kind of wins might seem more “mundane”, but they seemed to be lost by those in the koolaid-filled bubble. It’s easier to just donate more money to one of the COB-approved scams, and to delude oneself about becoming more “OT”. Does anyone remember Howard Becker or Michael Roberts or Jeff Pomerantz talk about the “IAS Grade Chart”, i.e. one gets “fourth dynamic case gain” by maxing out one’s credit cards? Since you have no money left over for actual grade chart actions, you might as well believe in that BS. The “IAS Grade Chart” is just another lie designed to separate you from your hard-earned money.
The bubble is cozy as a mother’s womb, since no one has to confront anything difficult (does David Miscavige really beat his staff?), and everyone is allowed to “create their own reality”, no matter how ludicrous it is.
Yes, indeedy Jethro.
JB — you’re describing the wins and overall attitudes of Scientologists that I knew in 1972 to 1975, when I first got in. These people were a) generally older and had life experience before finding SCN, b) were trained and loved that they were and had the ability to help someone at any time and c) were having wins and gains based on realistic expectations and desires. They wanted to relate to their then 22 year-old son. They wanted to improve their marriage or rekindle life with their spouse. They didn’t want to struggle at work anymore and be able to pursue a career that made them happy.
Personally I walked out of a drug-induced haze in NYC and expected Sci-Fi characters talking nonsense. Well, the only one talking nonsense was me — for a while longer that is. It was exactly what I needed, A great big dose of common sense and compassion. I had total strangers listening to me for hours over a cup of coffee. We discussed reality in it’s many forms, using some of the words we hear today, but it felt more grounded in truth.
Have you ever walked into a conversation that others were having, two-thirds of the way through and honestly thought they were discussing the 2D and how society needed to lighten up. When in fact they were discussing baseball and how the Mets had zero chance at winning the pennant.
That’s what it sounds like to me when I catch these testimonials. These people entered SCN two-thirds of the way past the real Basics and never got what the subject was really about.
Odd
sad, spend all your money and half your life to destimulate something he probably could have gotten out of restimulation if he did something like actually go hiking and look at a real beautiful waterfall like the one they ruined with their photoshopping, we’ve got two ruined nature photos here, and a dude’s torso floating randomly between them with some bad fonts and layouts, if someone photoshopped me like that i’d be pissed
Hi,
reading all those wondering and repeating comments about The Bridge being circular etc makes one ask, whether people have understood the basic concepts about the Org Board and the Grade-Chart and how they relate to each other.
When one gets hold of a copy of both of them and compares them side by side it can be noticed that they are “glued together” by the awareness-characteristics.
http://tinyurl.com/kdlbdoc
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ghxidL35z8Q/UG4mAbSkFWI/AAAAAAAAAqs/xrb3__Ok-fQ/s1600/div-7-org-board.gif
Everyone who is a bit versed with the Org Board and it’s philosophical background and interconnection with the Grade Chart will probably remember that one enters the Org Board on the left and goes right through the Divisions to the right. Remember it? 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 and THEN OUT!!!! No joking here.
“… Unique to this organizing board is that it is entered from the left and proceeds to the right, starting with Division 1 and moving on through the divisions to Division 6, AND THEN OUT.
…
THIS ORGANIZING BOARD WOULD IDEALLY BE MOUNTED ON A LARGE C-Y-L-I-N-D-E-R TO SHOW THAT IT FLOWS IN A C-O-N-T-I-N-O-U-S C-I-R-C-L-E with Division 7 meeting Division 1. To emphasize this fact, Division 7 is placed before the rest of the divisions on the board. …”
[emphasis added]
ref: http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/organizing/step/organizing-board.html
Nothing confidential here – just look up the reference “The Nature of a Being” in the Book of Basics.
The very moment one has grasped/understood/accepted the concept/idea/definition of “YOU” (it being PLURAL NOT SINGULAR!!!) one can see, why this whole auditing endeavour HAS TO BE CIRCULAR and why one HAS to become a perfect SOLO-auditor in order to become cause over life!
Don’t forget that definition as well: THETA I-S LIFE!
As there is a DIANETICS-picturebook and a SCIENTOLOGY-picturebook, one might expect an OT-picturebook to be there as well. And yes… you are right! It’s been in the making for quite a while and here is the first part:
http://workabletechnology.com/?p=1003
Perhaps LRH’s words from the MILESTONE ONE lectures will make it easier for you:
“…There will be a time, when you will be without me and without Scientology…”
That time has already come.
We are now on our own – but not alone!
So, have a good day and when something bothers you, just run this command on 4 flows till cog & VGI’s:
“WHAT IS TRUE FOR Y-O-U?”
🙂
PS: Personal note @ DM:
Sir, stop the abuses. NOW!
A fascinating study in how ANYTHING can be explained away with some selective LRH quotes. And if I found a bunch of quotes that “prove” the opposite we would be at a stalemate. Though I would be “CI” to “Command Intention” and therefore wrong.
But what is true for me is that if you sell someone something with a specific RESULT which is listed on the Grade Chart I don’t think it is correct to come along some years later and say “that wasn’t the real thing and therefore you need to pay us to do it again.” THe example of the evolution of phones in inapt — there is no change in what is promised, the result has been there since the day it was written and that is what was promised and still is promised. It’s more akin to having you appendix removed and then being told a few years later “we weren’t really doing it right back then, but we know how we went wrong, so come on in and we will redo it — cash or check?”
Mr. Rinder,
Thank you.
You ARE right – that’s the whole simplicity of it.
Though the above two comments may seem to oppose/contradict each other, there is NO RIDGE!!! 🙂
Why? May it be, that here one can see a full demonstration of two very basic abilities in real life?
1) Your ability to let communication happen on all four flows AND
2) because of you being capable of granting beingness to others?
You decide. Whatever it is – Thank you for being here and communicating.
PS: If it’s not true for you – well, Mike, then it’s simply NOT. Period. Have a good day! 🙂
I know exactly what you mean, Odd Thomas. Below death on the tone scale is weird to confront, but if that is what is in front of you you had damn well better see it for what it is. As for your comparison between the “posse” of these sub zero characters and the tone of many success stories emanating from the COS I think you are spot on there, also.
I remember well the first time as I was about to speak at graduation one of these RTC characters first insisted that I write down my success story, and then “edited” it and inserted “special thanks to COB and RTC” at the end. I took their edit to the podium and then just ignored it, spoke from the heart, and expressed my admiration for the guy who actually developed the Tech. They were quite pissed off. And I never agreed to speak at graduation again even when I was asked. It left a bad taste in my mouth. I noticed that others who went along with this bullshit seemed to go out of valence when giving their wins…..and no wonder. The “wins” were not completely their own.
Interesting story, Espiritu. My little “add-on” took place in 2005 when I was doing my OT V at AOLA. I would literally be coming out of the examiner’s room with shoes in hand, a) mentally coping with the examiner’s interminable delays in calling an F/N and b) trying to regain the momentum of my wins and cogs, when I’d be confronted by an IAS reg wanting to see me about becoming a Patron.
It felt extremely invasive and totally unreal to me. Like an attorney being the first person you saw after coming out of the operating room. “Mr. Jones, may I please have your signature on this Power of Attorney. Let me help you hold the pen.”
To me their behavior was in a way, psychotic, in that is was disassociated with everything that was taking place. They had zero sense of decorum, manners or awareness of what any of their “Targets” were going through at that moment. Their wins were ONLY a precursor to an easier close. That’s all it meant.
Good point.
Odd
There is only ONE thing that has been tested in clinical trials to actually remove toxins. That’s a nutritional cleansing program called Isagenix. Skidmore college did clinical studies on it and were floored with the results. I heard the lead scientist give is objective report on what they discovered… and he and his team could not believe what they saw. This is what we have in THIS decade. And you don’t have to spend 5 to 8 hours a day in a sauna to get the results.
I’ve worn glasses since I was a child, so I don’t think it’s cheap of me to say that I think I got the better bargain. I spent nothing on any “OT level” and I too wear glasses, even without feeling that my “body conditions” have been “handled.”
Ask the guy in a week how that “win” is.
There is absolutely NO scientific proof that the Purif does anything. No researchers are even looking at it. WHY – because Hubbard made it all up as he went along. While it seems like common sense to sweat out toxins – there is no proof that stands on its own merits of facts.
With all of the incredible products and “self-help” out there – scientist’s would have by now, validated whether this program does anything but suck up time and keep you in one location so the vulture regges can start on you. Join staff, become a VM etc…is what I endured during the Purif – which, btw – did nothing for me. My biggest win was finishing and getting out of there.
Right on I.M. The purpose for sweating is to cool off the body, not to expel toxins.
You know. In AA there are 12 steps that get done with gods help. A person gets good gain by doing these steps and even becomes more spiritual by helping another person to get through their addiction.
You can then go through those steps again. Get more gains and be even more solid in your recovery.
How many millions of people saved their lives from a life of addiction doing that. Could be drugs alcohol gambling overeating sex porn narcotics shopping binging and purging etc. the list goes on and on.
You know what it costs? Maybe dollar or two a week if you feel like it.
I’ll be honest I left scn pretty screwed up and had to get rid of some real bad habits.
But the worst addiction was to get rid of my fixation on the arrogant righteous judgmental way of viewing the world and people in it. That took the most work. un- learning scn is quite a challenge after having the worst of it applied to you with all the abuses which occurred with many of us.
Thanks for listening. Thanks for writing.
mg
Very well done MG! I agree on the worst addiction/behavior pattern. Correcting that behavior and making amends to those that were offended is a very beneficial process IMHO. Ensuring that it will not occur again is an OT level in itself.
Afreakinmen MG. The biggest thing I had to get rid of was my “arrogant righteous judgmental way of viewing the world and the people in it.” A little humility goes a long way in the world and reality sucks when it bites you in the ass whether in Scientology or the real world. I am so glad I relearned how to act like a person and am forever grateful to the people in my life today who love me and who I love so dearly. I never want to unlearn that. Thanks for sharing how I feel. And Coop, I think that’s what unreleased OTIX is – ensuring that it will not occur again.
Doing a purif wrong is easy. I mean, it’s really no sweat.
Yeah! A little levity – thanks!
Well, these are amazing news: “This Purif addressed charge that my previous two Purifs had failed to get to …” Really? It addressed charge? I always thought, the purpose of this programm is very simply to clean out and purify one`s system and that the only reason, of handling drugs and drugs deposits in the body is so that the individual can THEN get case gain. Reading this success story, I get the impression that the Purif administrators and OT V Ben Ranson are on drugs.
I’ll present what I know is a different point of view on this. Though the sheeple obviously cannot even RECOGNIZE the outpoints right in front of them (you’ve been attesting to all sorts of abilities like metering and being able to study FALSELY all this time under our direction, but NOW follow our direction and you will FINALLY get the promised abilities …), I think there is another side to this case phenomenon of folks NOW getting the gains on the same stuff they ran before.
Mayo has an essay you can hunt up about his eventual conclusion that auditing is simply getting charge off the case and that there is no discrete actual case state such as “clear”, but that LRH always opposed him on this (even as he continually dumbed down the state itself) as it was Ron’s huge personal and PR stable datum.
As an experienced auditor and CS, I now feel that the grade chart (or “bridge”) is just a blueprint, an overall strategy or plan as to how to proceed handling cases, that it is NOT a set of separate and distinct spiritual or case categories that FULLY achieve the end phenomena stated. Certainly an individual can feel at a CERTAIN MOMENT in time that he/she can communicate to anyone on any subject or any of the other ep’s one attests to at exams. But anyone who has been in Scientology for any length of time has observed folks who are Grade IV’s who are bad communicators or who have lots of problems or clears and OT’s who seem VERY reactive and down tone on many occasions. Even online OT8s will mention that they are going to Flag for “review.”
This doesn’t invalidate any subjective win anyone may say they have, it is just CONTINUALLY evident in observing people in Scientology that there ARE no fully achieved case levels as presented by LRH (who had case problems himself all the time). These “states” advertised from DMSMH to the present are, I realize, the major selling points and also the fervent hopes of Scientologists. But really what we observe in well done auditing is charge off something in a case and a resulting cognition and rise in tone. You certainly don’t want to re-do a major action that the pc truly feels is done/had a great win on, but in reality as the years pass, most pc’s are open to re-running many processes and getting more charge off the case and having more cognitions in a certain area. The fact that the PR in Scientology has always been dishonest and that most people have to “convince themselves” in their attest cycles (or attest when on a momentary high) does not invalidate the fact that people DO have wins and sometimes quite spectacular wins in auditing.
So I don’t see it as invalid really that folks would get tons more wins from doing objectives again or fail to handle any number of things on ANY level and address them later on. (But I still don’t get the deal about not getting the obstacles/barriers to study the first few times and having to do the student hat AGAIN, even if in the middle of the BC – that is a total head scratcher to me).
Joe,
From my own personal experience as an auditor and C/S. I found that people do get the release on whatever grade if you run enough communication, problems, o/w, ARCx, Ser Fac processes on them and that people indeed go Clear whether on the CC or on running engrams and do attain the EP of a certain OT level if enough processes dealing with that subject are run. Including the original OT levels.
Then again you could run something like R1C practically forever if you got Tone Arm Action and still make gains.
Personally I don’t feel Ron lied or that Mayo is correct in his assessment as there are definite levels.
That said you could take someone to OT III theoretically and rerun the lower grades or in this case objectives from a different perspective than they would have had at a lower level which is probably why they are able to get away with it. Going back to the old definition of Auditing on the Briefing Course.
But it sure ain’t what I’d call Standard Tech.
Also as far as training. Well you remember the old adage that the number of times over the materials equals certainty and results.
The point is.
How many times are you going to have people go over the same thing before it acts as an invalidation?
I am totally confused by your answers. You believe in the never ending moving target of ‘going clear’? Who do YOU consider having ‘gone clear’?
As far as I can tell, from the only thing that is goes clear in Scientology is the clear urine from drinking all that water from gulping down the various vitamins.
Remote – thanks for your feedback. Well, that’s the good thing about different viewpoints. We both have a lot of tech experience, but we also have had different observations and different conclusions and opinions about what we have observed.
OR,
If you studied the technical references regarding the state you’d know who has gone clear and who hasn’t.
There is a definite EP and it is in those references.
You can invalidate the state (like RTC seems to be doing)all you want but it does exist.
“but it does exist.”
especially if you BELIEVE that it exists. Show me the beef!!
Technically it does exist as stated by a definite cognition and meter phenomenon accompanying it.
And showing you the beef only applies to tangible items like an In&Out Burger. Not a *subjective* state.
Joe,
Nothing wrong with stating your view. Nor mine on which we can agree or disagree which is the great thing of being outside of the fascist confines of the Church of Stupidology 😉
It just seems odd that ONE guy completing ONE low-level service is something they would crow from the rooftops about. I mean obviously this ad is targeted at a limited audience, but everybody knows what the Purif is, everybody has done the Purif, how much different can it be?
But what I really wonder is, why aren’t they doing something like this for Super Power?
Super Power is the hot new thing. (I know, it’s not genuinely new, but it’s new to most of the people who would be doing it.) Super Power is mysterious. Super Power has a whole flashy new CATHEDRAL full of exotic, one-of-a-kind equipment. Some parts of the building look like a science fiction movie set. Super Power is just about the only thing that Baby Bólivar has ever done that isn’t just an expensive retread of something that every Scientologist has already completed, or already studied, or already owns three copies of. I would imagine that many Scientologists are intrigued by the idea of Super Power and curious about the new building.
This is an actual product that might have some sales appeal, just to look at it from a crass monetary perspective. So why are we hearing almost NOTHING about that?
Could it be, I wonder, that Baby was *so* upset at how thoroughly his plans for Super Power were leaked — architectural renderings posted on Tony’s old Village Voice blog, and the original SP rundown reconstructed and published elsewhere online — and that the J&D was *so* hurtful to his little eyes and ears, that he has soured on the whole project? Instead he’s pushing the Purif and Cause Resurgence like a born-again fitness nut. Maybe he’s worried about his health and this whole thing is a dramatization of that.
Oh well. I guess all we know for sure is that this guy — in the words of a former Israeli prime minister — never passes up an opportunity to pass up an opportunity.
I, for one, wrote success stories that skirted the truth: “What an incredible level to get through!”, and “I can’t believe how much more theta I feel having done this step!”.
Ben almost hides the fact that he’s skirting the truth but he gives it away some when he invalidates his earlier gains on the purif without actually invalidating them. That’s what makes me feel he’s twisted the truth to convince himself (and others) that he’s totally “on purpose” and getting “those standard gains”. But he’s written a success more apropos for a new OT8 (although he fails to mention his ability to float without legs).
I think His Tiny Feet needs to write an entire new course on appropriate success stories for each level.
Yea, it’s like the boy who cried wolf. As soon as the next improved purif comes out, he’ll have the same story. Where will it end? ( That’s rhetorical)
This makes a lot of sense, actually.
It’s precisely that: advertising.
The first cellphones with so-called “Internet” in early 2000s were advertised as usable for email and surfing the web. At the very very best you could read some crappy advertising site on your cellphone provider’s “website”, which was carefully designed to be possible to render on very small and poor screens, and you couldn’t read any real websites on the real Internet.
Did they advertise new and better phones after some time? Yes, they did.
Did they say in the new advertisements how much the old phones sucked and how the new phone will give you real email and Internet? Yes, they did.
Did you buy a new and better phone after some time? Yes, you did.
Did they give you your money back for the old phone? No, they didn’t.
Did you even ask about taking your money? No, oh course you didn’t. Because after all you used that old crappy phone at least for talking to people.
Scientology services are products. The church itself calls them products. They are advertised like products. They are improved over time, or at least presented as such. And people remember that they had *some* wins from the previous times they took the services.
So no, this is actually one the less weird things in Scientology.
Good point Leon,
True I don’t remember Apple giving my money back for my ol’ PowerMac when they switched over to Intel. Nor did Verizon rush in and give me the latest smartphone for my ol’ cell phone.
Yeah true. Many of these companies allow you to trade up. That is if ya got something *tangible* to trade.
Personally I’ve always thought that complaining about this aspect of the Church was a wrong target.
All you gotta to do is look at the results we achieved back then with the so called obviously overhyped “results” they are getting now with the newest and latest altered as in squirrel tech and there is really no comparison.
The fact is that the newest and latest is not always the greatest.
A good example is the New Coke and other products on the market which ended up being worse than the original.
The only difference is most businesses unlike the Church which seems to be stuck in some kinda ser fac realize that they screwed up. Again like Coke who started bottling the original Coke as Coke “Classic” again.
I mean if Coca Cola continued to force their new coke down everyone’s throat they’d have gone out of business which is what has basically happened to the Church.
Sure they still sell “services” but the fact is that they are now more dedicated to extorting money out of lessening remaining few than in selling them is pretty telling.
If the Church didn’t have its *donations* and real estate it would have long since gone out of business.
Are you actually DEFENDING the purif scam of vitamins and hot air? At any point in it;s long and storied career, the purif has always seemed like a total joke to me. From the beginning of it’s first Inception.
OR,
You really need a “time out”. I was not “defending” anything really. Just agreeing with Leon.
And this whole discussion shows that the “church” is really a business…. doing business in disguise of a church. And the technology in the tech did not get any better… like iPhones and iPads and all the other amazing releases. All those phones got cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And I can still buy an older, refurbished iPhone somewhere that works great and won’t be turned off if I send a text to Bill Gates.. or someone on an Android.
The fact that they FORCED everyone to buy EVERYTHING brand new at exorbitant prices again and again… well, you just had to spend thousands of dollars on all that stuff to feel the full sting of being told a few years later that none of it was any good and you had to re-purchase it all again at even higher prices and turn your old stuff in to be shredded. I literally shredded at LEAST $55,000 on that crap. Threw it down the drain. That was just the books and tapes and e-meters.. it doesn’t include the auditing. (I got some good out of the auditing.) Motorola could not have done that and gotten away with it.
Apple is great because they fix things, respect the consumer. Good grief… a friend of mine just ran his 2.5 ton truck over his briefcase with his MacBook Pro in it… and Apple actually FIXED it! The computer still works!! Even though there is a ridge down the back of it. Neither of us can figure out how THAT happened… we just sit there laughing about it.
Nobody is laughing about how Scientology “fixes” things.
That’s because $cientology ALWAYS leaves a ridge running down your back!
As a “never In” who only became started researching Scientology when our family was stalked and harassed by the church because our daughter has the same name as a former Scientologist, I have a question… If his vision and spatial awareness improved, why does he have still glasses on in his photo?
If it helps I can offer my personal perspective on that. When I did the purif many years back my vision improved in that colors became much more vibrant. This was rather startling at the time as it occurred suddenly one day and was very pronounced. I got my eyes checked soon afterward and I still had the same prescription. My theory is that something shifted in how my brain processed the visual information as opposed to some change in the eye mechanism.
I’ve never seen any evidence that Scientology ever had any success changing an actual eyeglass prescription for the better.
Good question FeeIsMe,
I asked myself the same question when I saw Mat Flashback wearing the same coke bottle glasses he always wore after allegedly “completing” Super Power.
Not only that but remaining the same out ethics bottom feeding scum bag many of us had come to know and loath.
I mean you could say “the tech doesn’t work” in his case and in the case of others including their “leader” and I wouldn’t blame you if you did but from someone who has been highly trained in the technology and the theological background of the subject who has audited or counseled for thousands of hours I can give you my view and that is that the tech does work if your intention is to actually help the person being audited or counseled.
That said. Auditing or counseling is a two way street.
It’s like that old joke:
“How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?”
“One.
“But the light bulb has to really want to change.”
In other words the Preclear as we call them or patient has to have a goal of self betterment of wanting to improve their condition. This is not only true of Scientology or Dianetics but any form of Psychotherapy.
I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve seen practitioners of other practices get results with their patients because they wanted to make the person better and the person receiving the counseling wanted to get better.
That said. The fact is that there are those practitioners and auditors unfortunately whose only goal is to make money or for even baser reasons like to control the person or obtain material so that they could blackmail them or for sex.
Also there are people who get into some form of Psychotherapy including Scientology not to get better but for status. You see them here all the time in LA. Every time you go for coffee with them they have to impress on you the fact that they’re in therapy. Not what they leaned about themselves while they were in therapy but the fact that they were in therapy with some pricey shrink in BH.
Unfortunately you get the same types in Scientology as well. Telling you how they went to Flaaaag and did an L or several or yakking about their six month check or how they attested to OT VIII. Not about any wins or gains they might have had while doing any of these action but simply to let you know that they were doing it and you weren’t.
To them it was nothing but a (to borrow a word from Psychoanalysis) “status symbol” like buying a new Ferrari and parking it out in front.
I won’t get into other goals and purposes that some of these Preclears and PreOTs have except briefly like a Blufeldian intention toward World Domination and create a society of slaves where they are the total master and other baser intentions.
Suffice it to say that people with those kind of objectives. It is a good thing that Scientology doesn’t work for them.
Anyway FeeIsMe that is my opinion on the scene.
Hope I answered your question and welcome to Mike’s blog.
LR
I know exactly what you mean. Reminds me of the time I was in St. Tropez with Michael Mann and JLO stopped by to chat.
Ok remoteviewed…
Heard this one a few decades ago:
How many scientologists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Three.
One to change the lightbulb and two to do the admin.
John Doe, you will need another 10 to sign the routing form.
Remoteview, I like vey much what you said above! It’s so true.
FeeIsMe,
Good point, those glasses should be tossed by now…..
Ah well, count on the next sec check to take care of that little outpoint!
Greta
Right on, FeeIsMe. 🙂 You caught it first time out.
Exactly.
It’s a fashion statement.
Total blindness, zero awareness, only ‘following’ what been told to do. Then phrasing the wins in words that accommodate only to what is ‘expected’.
A zombie? A robot? Maybe both, but for sure lost of personal integrity and an acceptance that your life belongs to others thus, it has nothing to do with you anymore.
No personal creation, could not get worse.
“No personal creation, could not get worse.”
Silvia — exactly!
I have always respected the right of people to have their own wins and use whatever language they thought necessary to get their point communicated. I still do. However … I’ve been pained to read some of the recent wins published on this site and that has bothered me. Yet, I cannot deny the insincerity oozing from some of these testimonials — they just didn’t play out right.
I think I may have spotted what the feeling reminded me of. I’m originally from Brooklyn. And from a time and place depicted pretty well (uncomfortably well) by movies such as the Good Fellows and The Godfather. Some of the people I knew, not well, but knew were psychopaths. They were the real deal. Dead eyes staring at you,above a smiling face. Unnerving as hell. It put a whole new spin on Fear. They didn’t have a gun stuck in my face. They were not threatening me or anyone else. In fact, most of the time they were laughing or buying us a drink. But when they turned… when something inside their head clicked and you could see it happen through those dark, light-sucking eyes, you had two options: play dead right at their feet or run.
My point is this – people around them, people who used to hang out in the periphery of these types, were all in fear. They twitched and tweaked and laughed compulsively at every joke that wasn’t funny. At every cutting remark, that thankfully was not directed at them. They were out of valence and propitiative, but most of all they acted in fear.
The testimonials or success stories that I’ve read recently all had this same flavor. Words being said to appease or distract. “Please don’t look at me.”
Psychopaths make for good Hollywood characters. In person, they are scarier than hell. They make you want to go home and hug you mother or hide in the closet until someone friendly with a gun, comes and lets you out.
Now I get where these people are at. It’s sad for sure. But it also make me angry. And as strange or counter-intuitive as it may seem, being angry is perhaps the best way to be around these types. Either that or in a different State.
Odd
Odd Thomas, your comment strikes to the heart of the matter. You have probably never been near the Int base, but your description exactly fits what it is like when Dave M comes to visit. Sent a chill up my spine. Maybe that’s why I still have nightmares after 10 years out.
Odd,
That’s some fine writing there, with sentences like this one: “…when something inside their head clicked and you could see it happen through those dark, light-sucking eyes, you had two options: play dead right at their feet or run.”
I think you nailed it in pointing out the repressed fear, success stories and enforced wins that really say, “Please don’t look at me.”
Yes. You don’t expect to meet such people in Scientology. DM is a Scorcese character. I have met such guy, their business is to punish you for real or imagined things. Bad cops, harsh magistrate, gangster are of this kind. They punish you for being there, so you propitiate to avoid punishment. And they think you are a “pussy”, or a “sucker” and you disserve what happened to you. You look at them and it’s hard to believe. You think they only exist into fictions and movies but suddenly they are real, and you want to run away from their space.
Is anyone remembering this movie of Sidney Lumet with Sean Connery, The Hill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill. Some soldiers were under an harsh and sadisitic sergeant. And none even higher officer seemed to be able to correct this psychopath. When I saw first DM he reminds me of this character, knowing nothing about him.
Why do such a monster get some power over others? Why somebody didn’t take DM and bang his head on the wall, as this seems to be the only treatment for such a wild beast.
Just to add, some people are attacking Hubbard as the cause of this. But Hubbard was not such a person, not a sadist. He certainly was not perfect but most of the things he did were to help. No… but this people on the church are not aware to be under the control of a very SP.
I never was on the Sea Org, I’m a pussy, and probably a coward facing such a personnality, so I cannot advise anyone, but what are the chances to kick the butt of this SP and throw him out on the street?
Right on Silvia this guy is being created. Total other determinism !!!! That’s the real EP
to the RCS.
Well now I am beginning to see the Miscavige
logic.
The bridge is done in gradients lifting charge at
one level for one to be able to confront the next
level etc. into and on the OT levels.
Miscavige has found that the grade chart has been
OUT GRADIENT!
He is now incorporating the number of times through
the material equals certainty quote ie: The number of times
through the grade chart equals complete and lasting
case gain. He has not come up with the exact number
of times this should be.
He is compiling ALL of the success stories from each person on their
travels up and down the grade chart to determine when a person has fully
released all charge on the case and will be stable OT’s.
This will signal the true beginning of upward trends and
stats in all of the Ideal Orgs.
Such mastery and wisdom is beyond words!
Curse words come to mind.
Roger that MJ.
It remembers me on my words: You have to be an OT before you can become one ..
Taking the full dose of koolaide right into the central line into the right ventricle of the heart directly!
Could it be, Mike, that most of these people are inherently honest and are blurting out the truth in spite of the fact what they say belies the “official” line? I’ve seen stranger things.
Don’t worry Ben, your chronic restim will definitely get handled on your next level…cash, check or charge?
Oh, and just a heads up, Ben…what is one thing in your environment which has always been present during your years of chronic restimulation? Go on…you got it. Time to leave Ben.
I can just imagine the next nut running Scientology saying “We got rid of the SP Misscabbage and now everything is going to be great.” “All of you were just PTS and now you all need to do the PTS Rundown”.
I’m being cynical. I do think things could get better if they got rid of Misscabbage. How much better?? Not sure. I guess it would depend on who took over, but if it was one of the people there in the madness, it may not be much better.
I think it’s done. I don’t think it can ever recover. Too much bad publicity. Too many people hate Scientology. I think that the Scientologists in the field are the only ones who can save anything of it. But the Corporation of Co$ is cooked. `
You may have another opinion. Someone please tell me their opinion. IMHO this one is torquing right into the ground. Sorting out the sadists from the masochists inside would be too much of a job for anyone — especially since it is all hindered by having to follow every word of the 1950s tech to perfection. There would be too many disagreements and too much infighting for it to ever be substantial again.
Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) was able to become popular again because his words were so profoundly beautiful and because of the internet. LRH’s words are not profoundly beautiful and the internet has exposed his lies and pseudo-science. This is like watching the Titanic go down. Fascinating. Gurgle gurgle gurgle.
lol zana..@ “gurgle gurgle gurgle” funny but true. SMV Scientology is below the water line and only life boats with deranged survivors with delusions of still sailing happily in grand style with musicians on deck playing and champagne glasses clinking away. “We’re doing GREAT!!!!!!”
I believe you are correct that the brand is toast for the next 50-75 years at least.. Too many betrayals, too many people ruined utterly. Perhaps when this current generation is long gone and the outrageous exploits and explosions and dismantling of Scientology is a distant memory, someone will be forwarding the more worthwhile technical aspects of the subject and quietly call it something else so as not to enrage those who have better memories and hopefully they choose never to dredge up Hubbard’s name in association with it. I think that name has done quite enough smashing into history for the time being.
Tony, depends on how Miscavige “goes out.” If he dies in bed twenty years from now (or even sooner) my guess is that the folks who take over will be rolling in dough and real estate, and will find it very much to their interests to make him a saint and continue the con. If for some reason, he somehow leaves in disgrace or is pushed out by some kind of reformiers (and I find the likliehood of this happening VERY remote at this time, but I guess anything is possible) then you will probably see what you mention above, his crimes outlined, everyone was PTS, yadda yadda yadda (but again, I do not think this will happen, too much brainwashing over the years and too much agreement – I don’t think the sheeple could make the switch in thinking).
In any case, speaking for myself, I would not come back into the CoS even if reformers took over, cancelled all the SP declares and refunded all the IAS donos. I simply no longer believe that there is a positive in belonging to organized religion, that when one agrees to a single “source” for spiritual truth and agrees to always agree with the doctrine of a church, one has really given up one’s self determinism and ability to have free thought and free viewpoints. Certainly I would NEVER become involved with an organization that insisted on adhering to all of LRH’s admin policy.
You are speaking for me as well Joe. Nail ……..meet hammer with one additional caveat;
” I simply no longer believe that there is a positive in belonging to ANY organized religion.”
My feelings exactly. Both as to Joe and your addition.
I also “feel” that if Miscavige would go that things would have to be better, but this is emotional on my part because I despise him. That said, per the Data Series, Miscavige is a Who, not a Why, and whatever off-policy, out-tech, out-admin or out-ethics – including a combination of any or all of the above and including but not limited to whatever LRH did or didn’t do when he was alive – any or all of this which has effectively created this horrendous sit of PottyMouth as Supreme and Unquestioned Suppressor/Leader would have to be sorted thru and determined and corrected. The data analysis might need go back VERY far in time. Whew! Talk about a Multiple Sit Eval, you know? But just getting rid of the Dwarf is not going to hack it, because, yes, there could be someone worse. I’m saying this with cold, dispassionate logic and not out of my own personal emotions which clamor, “No, there could never be anyone worse than this evil, suppressive bastard”. Except, yes, there could be. They’re out there.
We’re talking about a cult sitting on a billion dollars. Meaning, David Miscavige is not the only slick, ruthless, soul-less con artist SP who is all about the money under the clever manipulative guise of wanting to help and save the world. If, or I should say, when, PottyMouth goes, others like him, just as calculating, just as soul-less but more intelligent, with better social skills, better communication skills, and certainly better management skills will be waiting to pounce and it will again have nothing to do with real help and be ALL about the money. It could happen again.
Personally, when or before Miscavige goes out I’d like to see the cult bankrupted via lawsuits wherein everyone gets their money back from the various scams.
Then, with no or negligible assets, the organization could be rebuilt with its admin scale in alignment with the purposes of really helping people, and, if you will, the goal of clearing the planet. Giving everyone their money back in full and perhaps with damages would go a long way toward getting the organization out of Treason and thru the lower conditions and into Non-Existance. Of course, all this being said, all these suggestions I’ve been making, are based on my own reality on the tech as being viable and workable when it is correctly understood and applied, which is my own viewpoint based upon my own experience. Peace.
Just my .02 on an old thread. I was taught to lie in the Sea Org in the ’70s. There are things that are rotten at the core of Scientology. People should practice what helps them and I would never think it my right to tell someone they should not believe the tech works if they think it works for them. However, you could not force me back into Scientology. LRH’s entire bio was a fraud, which is enough to make me wonder what else is a fraud.
I much prefer finding my own way rather than having someone tell me I MUST believe and act the way they think is right.
At our annual family reunion, we have “uniform” day where each family is supposed to wear the same T-Shirt so everyone knows they are part of that “branch” of the family. Our “branch” (the black sheep) always do it differently. We each wear a “message” t-shirt (this year mine says “I’m not lazy, I just enjoy doing nothing”, my husband’s says “I’m not arguing, I’m just explaining why I’m right”) with an iron-on on the back that says the xxxxxxx Family Branch – Proud Misfits. That’s what I call an organized religion.
I think there are workable and non-workable things about Scientology. Sorting them out would not be worth anyone’s time.
Like so many other things no responsibility for the past screw ups. I remember when I had subscribed to the R&D Series then after like 4 or 5 volumes they said they were redoing them and the ones we had were no good. No offer to replace them just buy the newly redone volumes. I kept the old ones and quit buying them all together. Eventually I tossed the them when I needed room on my bookshelf. The whole “If you’re critical you must have overts thing is soooo powerful.”
Ya,it’s the uniform and D.M. approved vitamin dispenser.
Ben you will be in seventh heaven on OT 7 doing those 6 month checks.
All kidding aside, don’t quit your day job or throw away your glasses.
I’ve never been so KEY’d out and BLOWN out and EXTERIOR in my whole life since I finished this amazing rundown. Really, it’s just stupendous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is it that has created such unmitigated joy in my eternity of future on the whole track??????
It’s the “I don’t have to buy your bullshit anymore DAVE, rundown.”
You have no idea how fantastic and how cheap this rundown is.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m blown away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LDW
Right on!
The “I DON’T-HAVE-TO-BUY-YOUR-BULLSHIT-ANYMORE-DAVE,-RUNDOWN” is the ONLY RD that seems to have no end and I don’t mind it in the least. Daily I give thanks to the universe for being out of that rut! 🙂
Halleluja!
Greta
I’m sold dude, the price is right and the wins are big.
Flunk LDW.
Your exclamation to question mark ratio in a success story should be 15 exclamation marks to each question marks. Report to cramming immediately.
He forgot to mention “Thank you to RTC, Thank you COB”
Ops….. someone is in real trouble!
Ha ha Ronit – that caught my eye IMMEDIATELY when I read the success story!
He obviously has not reached a full ep………………………get the bastard back in………………and make sure he wears his uniform this time.
Oh, you know, he needed a win to get off the Purif. So there it is.
As I said before, there is some good workable tech available in Scntlgy. The Purif however isn’t part of that and is unworkable. Nice idea, just doesn’t do what it says it does.
I disagree ORinCA,
For me the purif was a nice action and I got the result as stated in the HCOB.
The fact is that there is an EP and this EP has nothing to do with sweating out every single toxin you’ve ever come in contact with in this life which is theoretically *impossible* like say running out every single engram or GPM on your whole track.
There are three ways you can invalidate the tech 1) is not taking each action to its EP such as in the the case of quickie grades 2) completely overshooting the EP or 3) Running an action on a case which is completely unnecessary.
You could add running an action that a case is not set up to receive making it four.
Seems to me that the Church does all four these days. That and omitting a whole section of the Grade Chart.
Add to that the fact that most of these cases are totally *untrained* and those who are have compromised their reality and integrity so much that they would allow themselves to be directed by a failed auditor who himself hasn’t been audited for almost two decades because according to him there isn’t an auditor good enough to audit him who in my opinion is a total “perfectionist” which is basically nothing but a service fac.
Well, I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s wins, but the Purification rundown does not remove toxins and drug residues from the body to any noticeable extent. Theoretically, subjectively, or any other way, it simply is not workable. If you had wins, more power to you, but it’s not because the purif removed toxins out of your fat cells or from anywhere else. I’ve gone over the specifics why before here, and would be glad to again if you like. I actually did the running pgm (with the “sweat suit”) and 4 purifs. Sat on the highest tier and did a very thorough job.
You know, got the niacin flush, sweated my ass off. Wasn’t bad, no long lasting ill affects. It could be dangerous for many though. Totally unworkable for removing toxins. But if you like to take massive amounts of vitamins and to sweat a lot, go for it. But it will not remove drug residues form your body.
Hey it worked for me.
That’s all I’ll say on that.
Remote,
Are you going to do it again and see if there are more wins to be had?
Nope Coop,got all the results I wanted out of the Purif.
Not only that when I was asked by exams whether I wanted others to have similar gains to mine I gave an unqualified “yes” and F/Ned.
Funny that you’d mention that out tech “R-Factor” they’d give PCs and PreOTs who protested continuing a certain action as opposed to handling the BPC or maybe rehabbing it like it says you’re supposed to do.
Those poor souls inside the bubble suffer from a condition called Deja Moo. They just love hearing the same Bullshit over and over and over…………..
At least when the Israelites worshiped the Golden Calf, there was real gold there. This is the iron pyrite of spirituality, a yellow brick road leading to no bridge, just to nowhere.
Not exactly to nowhere. There is bankruptcy, insanity, destroyed family and utter infantile-like dependancy
Not to mention the fact that Miscavige’s 2014 Style Purif “as LRH intended” is nothing more than the Purif- that-was-“squirrelled-by-unnamed-SPs”-and-that-needs-to-be-redone of the future.
Great, now everyone gets to re-do their Purifs! Good for GI and WDAH stat! Mike, as you said, it’s all in “the book,” including Ron’s stating several times that the program takes 2-3 weeks. I’ve heard horror stories of people being kept on it for months. I wonder if that is what they are doing now to claim this is the “new standard purif”?!?!
Failure loves company.
Thought stopping is right Mike. The purif retread for OTs? The hunger for wins, the desperate need for wins is making those still in mock it up.
Instead of being furious over having his progress up the bridge invalidated by this out-tech retread, this poor pilgrim just swallows it. Poor guy.
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Thanks Phil,
Your face palm harkened me back to days of usenet and ARS 😉
Beautiful. Definitely in the aesthetic band.
Yo Ben,
Can’t wait to hear your wins from your Objectives rerun. Maybe you will permanently exteriorize from the mest universe and reunite with Ron. Or you could redo the Purif …………………again. Number of times through equals certainty you know and the wins will be even better.
… or OT 4?