Scientology’s usual response to each episode of The Aftermath appeared on their hate site before the show had even finished airing.
They focused their attention on Mat Pesch and Jeffrey Augustine. They KNOW they cannot make the same sort of insane rants about Luis Garcia or Ted Babbitt because they will present it before the Judge in their case. So, they stay mum and pretend they did not appear on the show. How embarrassing it would be to have a judge read their drivel.
But Mat and Jeffrey of course got the full “scientology treatment.”
Mat of course is the “unvetted Mat Pesch” invited to Leah’s “roundtable of bigotry.” These days everyone is “unvetted” because Leah commented that this is not her job, legal vets the stories. Of course, that adjective is now thrown before every person who appears on the show.
First, scientology’s response to all the documents, the numbers, the policy letters, the video of Hy Levy, Big League Sales that Mat discussed? Nada. Zip. Not a word.
Instead, they take the patented scientology low road — they “kicked him out 12 years ago” and he was working “in the wood mill” because “he was unable to uphold the ethical standards of the religious order and ecclesiastical justice removed him”. Apparently the vast majority of people who have ever held executive positions in scientology have had to be removed for being unable to uphold the ethical standards of scientology. Which does not say much about scientology. This also only ever comes to light AFTER the person has left…
They do admit that was the Treasury Secretary, but once again, “he was removed for dishonesty and falsifying records.” Of course, this is irrelevant to whether he has KNOWLEDGE and though they have documents for EVERYTHING they show no document about his supposed “removal.” But in the next sentence they claim that his years as the Treasury Secretary (one of the most senior positions in a scientology org) was “a stint in the local bookkeeping department of a Scientology Church”… Well, even that would corroborate his claims about knowing how much money the church had and how it was collected. And “a scientology church” happens to be the largest scientology organization on earth that takes in $2 million per week. Funny how they try to dismiss it as “just another church” when their own promotion about Flag talks about it in such glowing terms as the biggest, baddest and best church ever.
And this is the best they can do, though apparently they could not resist throwing in some innuendo and lies about Mat’s wife, Amy Scobee and her alleged “sexual transgressions.” Even though Amy did not appear in this episode — her alleged sexual exploits are evidence that the scientology policies and practices shown in this episode were untrue. That is classic scientology think. And even if everything they said about Amy was true (it isn’t) — how does that change whether Mat knows about how money was made and how much at the FSO?
Then they turn their poison pen to the “unvetted” Jeffrey Augustine.
Note — they do not comment in ANY WAY about all the contracts Jeffrey showed. Nor the Orientation Film. This was the SUBSTANCE of what he brought to the table. Virtually all Jeffrey did was hold up copies of documents and say what they were. Come on scientology — were those not REAL documents? Does it make any difference whether the hand that was holding them up was Jeffrey Augustine or Pope Francis or Howard Stern? Are you denying the veracity of those documents? Nothing to say about that?
No, instead they try to assassinate Jeffrey’s character.
But they go about this in a very odd fashion, choosing to deride Jeff because he wrote a book: What Caused the Big Bang? Citing passages as “incomprehensible” and that he “incoherently pontificates about “bubble universes” this apparently makes the contracts he held up invalid. But let’s not forget, these words are coming from the same people that sit and drool while David Miscavige rambles about being on the porch of infinity, L. Ron Hubbard presents the evil Lord Xenu as the mastermind of a plot to round up billions of people from all over the galaxy, transport them in DC8 looking space ships to earth, blow them up with atomic bombs after dropping them in volcanoes, and scientology espouses the idea that people get sore jaws because they were once clams on the seashore…
Pot. Kettle. Black.
And by the way, I am pretty certain that “bubble universe” perfectly describes the world of scientology.
And it just would not be an authentic scientology smear site without the obligatory allegations about Jeff’s wife being a sex fiend.
And that is the BEST they got.
Not a single word about the money, the discounts, the policy on refunds, the Catch 22, the listen-in systems, the contracts, the lies, the phony arbitration, the US Supreme Court ruling, the lies to the IRS, the billions of dollars they are hoarding. Not. One. Word.
Their silence is deafening.
And for new readers of the blog, and for those who just want a refresher on how this all follows the policy of L. Ron Hubbard, read this earlier post: Dealing with Critics of Scientology – The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
Thanks as always to the brave people who speak out about the abuses of scientology, this week we salute Mat Pesch, Jeffrey Augustine, Luis Garcia and Ted Babbitt.
Mike,
Prayers being sent your way as you uncover the evil that this cult has perpetrated on innocent victims and their families.
You and Leah are an excellent team. Out of curiosity I googled your name so I could reach out to encourage you and I came across scientology’s ridiculous and lengthy accusations against you. I mean, really?????? Anyone with half a brain has to see that and ask themselves why they are going to such lengths to disparage your character.
It’s obvious to me your making a dent in exposing their sociopathic and evil ways. Good luck and God bless!!!! It takes tremendous courage to do what your doing. AND your doing it well.
I second that thought. Well done, and keep up the good work.
Dear Mike, (May I call you Mike?)
My wife and I watched most of season one. The work you and Leah are doing is phenomenal.
Even though Leah gets most of the “attention” you are a kingpin in the series. Your knowledge is vast, and a tremendous contribution.
The information you have uncovered, as well as seeking out the switch that changed peoples lives shows that smart people can, eventually, see the light.
Thank you for your efforts!
Chris Christensen
Explain very well, great guests.Keep up the good work Mike.I still think you should of used that frog in your throat to catch the fly at the beginning of the show.?
Listened to Mat before on Jeffery’s podcast super insightful, glad you had them on the show .
I’m thankful for all your hard work. It will pay off I know it. God bless you!
Just watched and was so nauseated that I had to take a Phenegran after the show to quell my upset stomach. Sickening.
Great show, explained well, how this money machine works.
What dirt bags ,dirtying these guys wife’s.I would like them to speak badly about Amy to Mat’s face.(chicken shits) .I thought Mat and Jeffrey opened a lot of peoples eyes , explaining the con. Good job.
I don’t understand what the Garcia’s are going to accomplish by going to arbitration…can’t Scientology just say: “We did the internal arbitration and the answer is no, you don’t get a refund.” I mean, what recourse do they have at that point? Can someone please explain why going to arbitration is a good thing and what the next step will be?
The ONLY way to get back into court is to participate in the arbitration and then file a motion to declare it improper and unfair. Without doing the arbitration there is no other recourse.
Didn’t the judge say that he was going to oversee the arbitration himself? Did he ever get the list of 500 Scientologists in good standing like he asked for?
Couldn’t they FIND 500 people in good standing that DM would trust not to natter? 😀
See Ortega
Mike, have you ever taken a look at Robert Lifton’s 8 criteria for thought reform? He was a psychologist who studied cultic groups and behaviour, as well as totalitarianism, among other things. It would be interesting to see how many of the criteria matched up with your experience in the Co$ (I’d hazard a guess and say ‘all of them’).
http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversion/lifton_thought_reform.htm
The lengths to which Miscavige and his cronies will go, to keep others oppressed and in poverty – there’s simply no civil words for it. Despicable, evil, inhumane, damnable…none of these are nearly enough.
Are some of these courses paid for work visa? I wonder if visa could intervene. Sometimes when you are unable to get a refund from a vendor visa will credit you back and subtract the amount directly from the vendor
I finally was able to watch this episode. Very thorough explanation. I don’t recall signing any of those fancy forms. Maybe they weren’t in existence when I was doing my services….I wonder if I could ask for a refund and repayment of my money.
Remember the first rule in proving a fraud case is always FOLLOW THE MONEY. This episode did a great job of that. Keep up your good work.
Leah & Mike:
I have a question about whether these members are allowed to vote in a presidential election and if they are required to be democrat or republican. It was mentioned about the first amendment – so does scientology promote the Constitution of the United States? What do they say about the US government etc.? They evidently believe in it through their IRS affiliation!!!
I applaud you both and all those you have on the show for exposing scientology for what it is. A cult and scam, and so sad for so very many who participated and continue to participate in it. My prayers and heart are with you all in this endeavor, I know you will bring down this blatantly sick “so-called” church. I find it so sad that members education is so terribly lacking for the real world if they leave.
Maggie, there is no prohibition on voting. Most people who got into scientology are boomers and if you survey those ex-members (there are far more ex-members that members) you will find most lean towards the Dem party. There is no requirement to be of a particular party. Hubbard mentions the US gov here and there and hated the IRS.
I would hazard that they used to be about 50/50 but many see similarities in Trumps behavior to that of Miscavige and Hubbard. You may disagree with that being true but it is what it is.
+1,
Of the ex Scn’ers I’ve know, it is about 75-80% Dem. That was before this last election. Business owners tend towards Repub obviously.
Hubbard’s attitude was much closer in attitude to that of the Libertarian Party. When I was involved with the LP of California in the 90s, a number of its members were Scientologists. Even other Libertarians avoided them.
Yes, you are right about Libertarians. Hubbard espoused a lot of their thoughts as his ideas for society.
What they don’t do is follow his personality traits and that is what has struck a lot of the ex-scn community. The reaction to criticism. The vanity. The talking about himself and his accomplishments. Attitude towards women.
So familiar these words
All of the Scientologists that I know are ardent Trump supporters.
I was always a registered Democrat and felt some pressure to vote Republican so I generally kept quiet about my political views.
The truth always comes to the surface. I believe God will bless you and Leah for what you’re doing. I pray for your safety as you and Leah continue to expose the lies of this cult called Scientology. I pray for the children still trapped in this cult and I pray for those that are trying to get out of this cult that they may be able to do so safely and swiftly.
“Clams on the seashore”! The perfect response Mike. Bravo to all on the show last night. I felt like I was in the courtroom.
Finally got a chance to watch last night’s installment. BRAVO! To all of you. That was excellent.
I do wonder if their contracts might eventually come under scrutiny on the basis of informed consent.
People aren’t really informed.
I just imagine the Co$ registrars having to verbally state: “We are required by law to inform you that you are signing a legal document which denies you certain rights. You may have an attorney present to examine what you are about to sign and advise you of the rights you are choosing to waive. If you chose not to have an attorney assist you, well then you’re shit out of luck if you mess with us.”
I don’t understand their use of the word “church”. They never speak of a God or higher power that I have noticed but refer to the “Church of Scientology”. I see nothing but manipulation and control of their “congregation” and staff. Such a sad thing for so many people that have been their victims. You are kicking their ass in these documentaries! I will pray to my God that the courts see the truth and remove their authority at least as if is now. Go get ‘em!!
That’s an easy one…
Church=Tax Exempt Status
Hope that helps you understand….
Thank you for not giving up and continuing to help those in need!
I am curious how Scientology deals with people with disabilities? Both mental and physical? Are they a part of the community? Are there accommodations made for them? Are they viewed as equal members of the church? Thanks.
Andrea, “the church” DOESN’T “deal” with people with disabilities unless they have money. Also, people with mental disabilities are not permitted to receive metered auditing and are discouraged from being on church lines.
Aquamarine. Its estimated that 10% of the population has mental disabilities. ..i heard this percentage a few yrs ago. I think its higher now.
Which means Scientology turns their back to them. ..so much for clearing the WHOLE planet…
The real question is how does the “church” define a “mental disability”? Depression? Bi-Polar? Sociopathic? (the irony just hit me as I wrote that)….Seriously though, how does the “church” determine who suffers from a mental disability, when they surely cannot base this on an official diagnosis from a Psychiatrist or psychologist?
Ellen
From what I understand, there is no “mental disability.” It comes off as “what is your crimes, and who is to blame (usually your mother before you were born) to get you in this condition. Better grab the cans and confess.
Scientology says it is about “making the able more able.” It is never about helping vulnerable or disadvantaged people, unless there is a perceived ROI in recruits or PR or insulation.
Eggs-ZACtly.
As soon as I heard the interview with Ted Copple in I belive 1992 with DM, and DM explained that he wanted to raise those at “this level, to a higher level” and could or would not explain what happens to the rest of the SPs and Wogs of the World, I knew that he was all about an elite command group under his leadership to rule the rest of humanity.
Napoleon had his “Old Guard, Hitler has his “SS,” DM has the “Sea Org. I hope that his plans for World conquest goes the way of the other “want-to-be” total leader of the World.
I remember I think it was Mike and someone from the press, who was driving to one of the cult buildings, and the comment in the car was “You know, I have never seen anyone in a wheel chair.” When they got to the building there was a person in a wheel chair at the top of the steps (no ramp). The comment was: “Oh yes, we have all kinds of disabled people who are Scientologist.” The passengers in the car then knew that their car had been “bugged.”
Could you confirm that story Mike or anyone else that was in the car.
That was Bryan Seymour that recounted that story — I think it is was in the “hiatus special” earlier this year.
Anrea: When I was at Flag several years ago I encountered a Canadian guy who had been involved at my local Org long before I was involved and we knew a few of the same people. He was in his early 60’s and had been legally blind since childhood and it had continued to worsen with age. When I say “legally“ blind I’m talking about extremely poor vision – visually impaired to to a very high degree. But he was, early in life, able to see to a some limited degree. At the time I met him he could not sense more than slight impressions of light. He was totally dependent on others to get around etc. All his cyber communications were done via voice recognition etc. I watched as he listened to messages left for him on his phone played back at crazy speeds which he fully understood. He had recently inherited some money, left Canada and bought a little house in Clearwater so he could be on lines full time. I believe when i saw him he was on FPRD.
We had lunch together and chatted several times – one of those times the head IAS reg came and sat down with him as we ate and started after him for yet more donos. I think he got rid of her that time but he told me he’d already given them a third or a half of his inheritance…
Anyway, this blind, totally dependent guy in his 60’s had signed an SO contract which involved some predatory … oops – I mean “preparatory” steps; a “project prepare”. The idea was that he’d continue to get full-time auditing until such time as his vision was restored enough to qualify him for activation of his contract.
Un-fu**ing believable! “Hope springs eternal” is a phrase that comes to mind. I never checked up on him after that but I’d hazard a guess that he’s destitute by now and still blind as a bat.
It’s actually great to see these pathetic attacks of scientology repeated again and again, ad nauseam. They make the “church” look absolutely childish.
Scientologists can’t think for themselves. They MUST follow the tactics as spelled out by Hubbard, despite these tactics being toothless in the modern era of social media and the internet.
So keep doing what you’re doing, scientologists. The biggest suppressives can be found in your own mirrors. You are most certainly failing in your task of planetary clearing. Maybe it is Miscavige?
Oh, and how absolutely gutless of scientology to only smear those who they are not fighting in court for fear of a judge’s retribution. How lacking in courage of supposed scientology convictions. Scientologists, your pathetic character lays naked to the world, and trust me, it is NOT a pretty sight.
I am an American teaching at an international school in Beijing. Your show is fascinating and important and many of the expatriates here are talking about it. Thank you for all that you do. Please don’t stop! My colleague’s brother-in-law has been a member for 40 years but now that he is old and does not have any money he has essentially been abandoned in FLorida. Many of us were wondering what the rough numbers are for Scientology around the world? I know it would be hard to be accurate but I can not find any realistic information on line. I was in Tokyo last Christmas and saw a fancy storefront for a Scientology “Church” there. I would love to think that their numbers are going down.
Hello Barbara, welcome. I believe the ballpark answer is somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000, world wide. Most of those here in the States. When you think in terms of our population at 300 million the scientology population alone is fraction below underwhelming. Way under. Good luck and hi to all our expats.
Your participation in this is key, Mike, and it is so impressive what you and Leah are doing. I’m so appreciative of all these high-level former members and former staff members are coming forward.
I hope that a future episode will suggest to us the Watchers what we can actually do that would actually be helpful. It seems that overturning the IRS ruling as key. I look forward to all future episodes. Thank you all for your thorough, informative, journalistic reporting.
I absolutely agree with your comments!
HELP – HELP Mike please check “your contact me” name will be HELP HELP my phone # is provided there, Time is of the essence ASAP I am scared to post publicly Thank you Regards
I have checked all possible places and see nothing from you?
Wow, I’m eager to know what this is all about.
This is troubling. I hope this person was able to get help.
Last night’s show knocked it out of the park. As a retired cop who went on to business school, the hard sell, always be closing, getting docked for losing a sale – wow, perfect. And to think that it’s all wired together with guys listening to guys listening to guys. One of our murder interrogations doesn’t have the tech Scientology does on the sales pitch! Point well taken!
If Scientology is really a criminal organization that break laws, I don’t understand why DM can’t be arrested or how they got away with intimidation of the IRS employees through the court system. With all I’ve seen on these shows I hope the government will shut them down.
Mat Pesch, Jeffrey Augustine, Luis Garcia and Ted Babbitt were epic on last night’s episode. Everything they said was so believable because it can all be backed up with documents. When the internet cries “dox or shut up!”, Aftermath provides. And, boy, does it ever provide. Incredible job.
The show was so awesome. Slappy must be going crazy. His crimes exposed to millions of wogs
I was wondering if anyone will bring up the “routing form”
1. Pay up front your tech estimate
2. Than you sign legal dox
3. Than you go to ethics where the MAA picks open scabs of your past where you transgressed and if they can’t find any in this lifetime ~ they will comb through your past lives……76 million years to mess with Ching …..Ching ….?
Scientology is one of the biggest and longest lasting scams of our Century and you are DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT
Thank you Mike ?
What she said. Last night’s episode was so good, so professional, so righteously right and had the documents to prove it. Mat Pesch, Jeffrey Augustine, Luis Garcia and Ted Babbitt were formidible and were epic on the show. Such a great take down of the church. Aftermath provided the docs and the church is still doing the tired old play list of never answer any allegation, never prove anything, but DO smear the critic with slander, libel and lies. Their response and hate site was so predictable. Thank you so much to each person on last night’s show for your excellent testimony to the financial irregularities and the unjust refund practices. It wasn’t always like that. In the early 80’s before LRH died, I personally knew of a couple who got their money back just for asking. They didn’t have to do the arbitration thing then. That was back before LRH policy was altered by David Miscavige.
Big thanks and huge props to the whole Aftermath crew and last night’s very special guests!
In less than an hour’s time, the fundamental structure of the cult’s very intricately designed fraud scam was laid bare, using the cherch’s own written policies and service agreements, in a clear, easy to understand and comprehensive manner.
I was especially impressed with the courage and resoluteness of Luis Garcia and his attorney, Ted “Cujo” Babbit, in vowing to see their court battle with the cult through to the end, no matter what!
Mike, one technical suggestion on last night’s show. At the very end while the credits start rolling, is a typed statement of how much money the church made in 2012 and how much a week now it brings in. It went by so fast I couldn’t read it all. And I couldn’t rewind it because it was at the end and the only thing I could do was erase my recording of it. So I had to go back and play the entire show again in fast forward to get to that spot to try to read that bit. That was such an important piece of info that I wish the editors would have left it up much longer for people to really read it and let it sink in. It went by so fast that many probably didn’t even see it as they probably thought the show was over and thus turned their tv off before that even showed. Take time on important things like that, to show them for long enough on the screen and thus give it the importance and weight it deserves.
Hi Cindy. Have you tried using your back button one click at a time? After three clicks press once at let it roll back a half minute or so. Press play then press play again for slow motion. Don’t know if it’ll work with what ever cable co. you use, but works with mine. Good luck.
Thanks for bringing this up. All through the program the *scion* responses are hard to read. Take another 30 seconds and make the text bigger. Some of us are old.
It sounds to me like they are disclaiming their entire beliefs! So how can it be a religion! It would be akin to The Catholic Church claiming they don’t believe in Jesus Christ! Why aren’t they disbanded by at least the IRS?
Each & every episode we see:
The Church Challenges the credibility of the contributors…..etc etc…..
Yet, IF all this information is not true, if all those interviewed are nothing but a “pack of LIARS”…..oh yes, they were said to”not have done their job, not to have met the ethical stands” …..blah blah blah.
SEND IN THE BIG MAN…..SEND IN THE COB WHO RUNS THE SHOW…….oh yes wait….it was said that “he doesn’t handle everything”….Well then WHO DOES handle everything??????
Once DM made an ASS out of himself during that much “loved” TV interview years ago…..Wow, don’t think you’ll be seeing DM soon.
Even my 24 y.o. kid LOL’ed when those denials by the slurch came up on this episode. Anybody who’s watched more than one episode can see straight through their BS.
Excellent episode, by the way. Kudos to Mr. Garcia and his attorney for keeping up the fight for justice!
PS. Thank you for the editing feature!!!!!!!
“…the Slurch…”. Good one.. You just created a new word. Take “slime” and “church” and you get a slurch. Out of respect for David Miscavige’s organization, I’ve capitalized it. Well done, T-Marie. Would you care to write a Success Story? 🙂
Great episode! In a few past episodes, You and Leah spoke about how Scientologists would harass former members. I’m curious if the Garcia family has received that kind of harassment?
They tend to be very cautious about that sort of thing when litigation is pending…
Mike, I was unable to watch your episode due to the Dodgers being in the World Series. When will it show again?
Hey Old Surfer Dude, here ya go. Enjoy: https://rutube.ru/video/771f1c73ae85695d789e8a79bf1e0f44/?ref=search
P.S. Yay! the Dodgers won last night !!!
Thanks, Ganesh! However…my Dodgers lost last night. Final score: 7 to 6 Astros. Big sigh…
I liked them so much more when they were the BROOKLYN (NY) Dodgers……..I guess my “sign on” should be: “Old Brooklyn Girl”……
If vetting is so critical why is the cult savagely attacking anyone vetting Hubbard?
If moral character is a requirement for credibility where does that leave Hubbard ‘s? DM’s? Cruise’s?
THEY chose these standards. So how about delivering!
Good Aftermath crew and guests,
The expected and on-policy attacks by the cherch got me to thinking:
L Ron Hubbard has become the reactive mind of the CofS. His writings serve as the stimulus response ‘mind’ in all of their responses and publications. They do not think (forbidden ) on their own; Ron has already done all of their thinking for them. They go to their packs on every subject and find: “What would Ron say?” And plug it in, thinking always of the infallibility of Ron, and his perfectnessness, and hugeness of beingness, and that Ron is always right (the new R6 bank).
The ad hominems ( attacks on the speaker not the speech) are absolute proof that the cherch has no counter to the facts presented on the show. They are reduced to ‘being critical’ of the show guests in the hope that the criticism will somehow diminish the character of the guest, and thereby the facts presented. This whining gains them nothing positive, but reflects back on them with the question: “I wonder what the heck they did, or have done, or are hiding to be so touchy and defensive, and cowardly to resort to such crap?”
Finally, from the cherch having a long-term reputation of suing anybody anytime for the least slight, they do not currently have Blinky, or armies of lawyers, suing A&E, Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, each and every guest, and all viewers of this show. HIDING much?
Aftermath may be the right action at the right time to bring the public to stand up and demand for justice on scientology and those adherents supporting their anti-social practices.
PS: Hail to Louis Garcia, may you live to fight the good fight another day. (An assumption on my part.)
PPS: Sorry for getting carried away with this.
Jim, very good post re: reactive mind of COS. Those of us that HAVE been permitted, then chosen to explore other sciences, other schools of thought, or just live in a world not of LRon’s construct, well..we can observe from his writings that not all the pistons were firing. All resultant Scientology stems from this, and the distortions of McGreedy McSavage.
Re: ad hominem? Achtung Scientology! Your smear/slander/ internet stalking/spamming/sour grapes discreditation says WAAY more about y’all than those you seek to discredit.You probably can’t grasp the concept, since neither Elron nor Elroy wrote or tweaked it. Still I have enjoyed the s**t show,and learned a little, on every blog, and all social media. ?
Love the show so much. Thank you A&E, thank you Mike Rinder, thank you Leah and so many others who have stepped forward. First step, expose them. Second step? Anything to disminish the “church” of Scientology. I will sign any petition or help out in any way. We need to stop the brainwashing. People have rights, do they not? Is this not America? Some sort of child services need to come in and intervene and I’m so upset that’s never happened. Keep on doing what your doing. Thank you again.
Thank you ALL for the best, most succinct, and accurate exposure of the financial fraud of Scientology that’s ever been done,
Great show last night. Especially liked the Hernandez “quid pro quo” decision by SCOTUS being ignored by the IRS being addressed. For anyone interested, that decision can be viewed at:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/490/680/
I’ve also been hearing a lot of discussion at the local Starbucks this morning about the, “You need this form to get a refund, but you can’t come in the building to get it because you’re an SP for requesting a refund.”, trap. “Unbelievable.”, gets mentioned a lot.
“I was up in the Van Allen belt — this is, uh, factual — and, uh, I don’t know why they’re scared of the Van Allen belt, because it’s simply hot. Uh, you’d be surprised how warm space is… And I was up there watching the sunrise.” L. Ron Hubbard, “The Saint Hill Special Briefing Course #317.” Lecture, 23 July 1963
–
Credible? LOL. They follow this man’s insane ramblings and have the audacity to believe they are in a position to judge credibility.
–
“Citing passages as “incomprehensible” and that he “incoherently pontificates about “bubble universes”
Astounding hypocrisy. [Golf clap]
For a religion founded by a man who claimed to have twice visited Heaven, who claimed to have discovered that Xenu dumped people into volcanoes from DC-8 spaceplanes, and who claimed to be a nuclear physicist, OSA doesn’t seem to like the fact that I wrote a book about a Multiverse cosmology and Consciousness.
OSA clearly doesn’t read any physics. In its jab at me, OSA put the term bubble universes in quotation marks — “bubble universes” — as if the term were some strange origination on my part. OSA didn’t bother to pick up a dictionary and word clear this term. It is not a strange invented term I created. A strange invented term would be “enturbulances” or a “black five case.”
For OSA’s edification from Wikipedia: “In Dublin in 1952, Erwin Schrödinger gave a lecture in which he jocularly warned his audience that what he was about to say might ‘seem lunatic.’ He said that, when his Nobel equations seemed to describe several different histories, these were ‘not alternatives, but all really happen simultaneously.’ David Deutsch in his book The Beginning of Infinity suggests the Schrödinger equation as an evidence of the existence of the multiverse.”
Hey J. Swift,
I followed your comments over on OCMB for many a year, you were their best.
As to ””bubble universes””’ it may help to explain that 1) Hubbard never used that term so it would naturally seem strange to them and 2) they don’t got no higher education than what they got in their pack write ups. Forgive their ignorance for they are saddled with a single, almost a point, universe that is ever shrinking and without any Upelkuchen to grow them.
OK OK Upelkuchen: cake that makes one grow (Alice in Wonderland)
J Swift – it is an honor and a privledge to know an SP like you. You are very dangerous to $cientologys lifespan. If OSA goes after you – you are doing damage…. irrepable damage to the cult. Please …. continue and very well done. ??
Hey Jeffery,
As is in Schrodingers cat??
The things I learn from this blog and Tony’s.
?
Are you trying to tell me that framed “boarding pass” memorabilia I got off eBay for a window seat on the DC-8 dated 66 million years ago is a fake? Get outta here!!!
Ah, the thought of LRH in the Van Allen Belt…
I always picture a pudgy, pink L. Ron Hubbard, in a 1950’s style bathing suit that sits snug above his belly button, wearing huarachi sandals, and doing the backstroke in the cosmic waves of the Van Allen Belt.
Perhaps with a thought balloon above his head, “My, it’s quite warm up here, and so forth.”
Someone should do a cartoon of this.
Lol!
Very good show! And let me also comment that Mr. Rinder’s writing style is appropriately humorous!
Love your blog. Love the show. I had absolutely no clue about any of this. Thank you and Leah for what you are doing. I am encouraging everyone I know to watch. I believe there is great value in truth. My prayer is that this will prevent others from “buying” in to this.
You know, I’m wondering if you can’t fight fire with fire here. CoS enjoys the tax exempt status of a religion and does nothing to compensate any victims of its harmful actions. Obviously some of them are criminal and should be dealt with in courts. But there are two categories of damage that continue to haunt me.
One is the fact that young people brought up in the church have to escape using some kind of underground railroad system to avoid detection and don’t have a real robust open network to help them adjust. They end up living on friends sofas or even homeless. Shelters exist for victims of domestic violence. Support groups are set up for children of alcoholics that provide counselling, medical and mental health services to help treat those recovering from trauma.
Secondly, I am struck by how unprepared for life people who have been raised in this organization are in terms of education. Some of them have never attended real schools that bestow educational benchmarks or certifications that are required for employment these days. I would think some kind of organization to help bring those kids up to snuff with what they’ve missed educationally – at least GED level and preparation for vocational school or college – something normally available to them in society – would be a useful tool.
So my idea is that maybe a group of ex-Scios should form a non-profit to deal with that stuff, to provide shelter, services and support to help people make the emotional and psychological adjustment to life outside CoS, not to mention the continuing trauma of disconnection, etc.. And to help prepare them educationally so they don’t feel trapped because of what they were denied as members basically accumulating experiences that may not translate in real world skills.
This non-profit could be funded in a variety of ways. For one, it could use government grants. It could accept public donations. AND, if the legal atmosphere becomes more favorable for lawsuits against the “church”, then people receiving refunds could donate or bequest a portion of them – tax exempt – to prevent future ex-members from going through what they went through.
I think the best irony would be a legacy charitable organization designed specifically to heal the damage CoS does to individuals. One that might even be able to recycle or reuse payments made to CoS for things actually and measurably useful.
It could also serve as a place of legal employment for ex-members to use to transition to the outside world. All kinds of rehabilitative models like this already exist (using both volunteer and paid help). And NOBODY can accuse people of using CoS to “profit” from if a lot of future efforts go into creating a self-sustaining organization that reverses the damage CoS causes.
You have started something wonderful by exposing the evils of this organization. I hope that maybe something tangible and permanent can be created that will serve to further, in a discrete and organized way, the work you all are doing to help others not only survive but to thrive. Maybe something to help “clear the planet” of people who were damaged and hurt by the policies and practices of CoS.
“I am struck by how unprepared for life these people who have been raised in this organization are in terms of education. Some have never attended real schools…”
This is SOP for the cult. They tell their members that college is a waste of time. And all they need is to study Scientology. And ABSOLUTELY nothing else. These kids have nothing to fall back on. And…they became slaves.
In the early 1970’s I walked off staff at an AO as an auditor. A CL8 and a CL6 separately asked how I would make it outside. I said I have a bs in science and already have a job next Monday. Both said, all I know is tech; and my retort was:
No problem– go to welfare to get some startup cash, go to manpower and you will have a job in a day, take the first job, go to night school, go to vocational tech school and own your life. Years later I saw them……still auditing in the HGC.
Great comment and story. Proves that one IS totally responsible for one’s life. Not to BLAME, mind you, as scio likes to make one feel, but one must take the responsibility to make decsions, take actions and live with the results. They’re still auditing in the HGC? No responsibility cases!!!
I also fondly remember the days when you could quit your job in the morning and have a new one by the afternoon. Sadly, those days are long gone and many people with PhD’s are underemployed. The average age of minimum wage workers is now people in their forties, and many of them have degrees. A BA or BS used to mean something. Now it’s just proof you’re not functionally illiterate and the cost of its tuition (state schools) has risen 276% since 1971. We all know wages have not kept up at nearly that same rate.
Cecy,
More and more I wish that there were more vo-tech schools. Sweat work gets fed reliably.
No kidding! There is a lovely honesty about physical work. We live in a physical world after all. And we’ve lost touch with the satisfaction, sense of accomplishment and independence regarding things we do and make ourselves. Many kids are kinesthetic learners and need to be productive in physical ways, not just sitting behind a corporate desk or computer.
Cecybeans, it is no longer proof of not being functionally illiterate. MOST 4 year degree holders I was trying to hire into my business even 10 years ago could not pass what used to be a 5th grade level vocab test nor do algebra. Unless one gets a degree in a REAL science or engineering discipline, they are pretty much worthless.
I know many with PhDs and all make LARGE amounts of money. However, all are science/math or engineering types. A PhD in history or French romantic poetry are useless in the world-force.
Hey listen, it’s not just them. Lots of kids who are home-schooled have problems as well (although there are kids with phenomenal educations who are).
I don’t agree that college is for everyone. Certainly the trades are underrepresented in our society. And the cost is progressively prohibitive. But it is getting to be a benchmark for literacy these days and that is essential to get hired for anything. There is plenty wrong with public schools – I am no fan. But a primary and secondary school education are pretty standard requirements for skilled employment in our society and dramatically impact earning power and accumulation of wealth.
I thought a lot of high school and college was a waste of time – they can certainly be made to be more efficient and realistic. I told my daughter that it’s a lot like Karate Kid “wax on-wax off” – it builds, patience and stamina in addition to teaching the basics. Things I imagine CoS kids have already learned although they are harder to measure or give credit for in the world. But the most important thing (and this is disappearing as well) that is taught in public/private schools is critical thinking and the ability to discern fact from fiction. Not to mention social skills and creative problem solving (if it’s a decent school). You can teach yourself anything if you know the right way to learn. But it’s easier on you if you are certified in basic skills.
I would rehaul the school system in the US in a hot minute if I could – and have briefly taught in them enough to know a lot of it is garbage. But regardless of how imperfect they are, my heart aches for kids who have had that opportunity stolen from them. Just look at any chart of expected lifetime earnings and you’ll see what a terrible disadvantage not having a basic education bestows. If CoS really wanted to soak people for more money, they’d have the ones who inherited it (and are presumably adequately indoctrinated) get expensive educations to earn lots of money to pour back into their coffers.
Hell, even the Amish trust their kids enough to give them Rumspringa, the a period of teenaged freedom before they permanently commit. It just shows how worried CoS is about how badly they will compare.
I had friends who homeschooled for religious reasons and I used to ask them “how are you preparing them for the world of evil if they can’t even build up defenses for it? Is your faith that fragile that it has to be protected like a hothouse flower?”.
I live in Mormon country and see just this in about 5% of the homes. A bit disappointing, but a fact.
Cecy, you bring up so many good points.
The turn towards “Common Core” in education over the last 4 years has a strong focus on critical thinking. So that is starting to correct a bit. My own kids got a bit of it in the last years of high school, but they were already predisposed to critical thinking by Mom and Dad.
They were also homeschool by me for a while early on. My sister criticized me for trying to protect my children from our broken schools. She took your viewpoint that her kids would learn how to handle the world by being in it. Unfortunately, that didn’t work out so well. Both kids are a mess. Her oldest is on meds for bipolar disorder, anorexia, and has a disabled child out of wedlock. Younger has been through rehab twice. First time was in his last year of high school. They have both been in bad sexual promiscuity situations. This world she immersed them in, took them over.
I did return my kids to public school, but it required constant vigilance and advocacy. My kids were raised to know that everyone has value. They were color blind…until they returned to public school. They learned how to identify race in a negative way…through the curriculum. I was able to use that experience to teach critical thinking and to teach them to be aware of unfairly labeling people.
One regular observation my kids’ teachers would make, especially right after we ended homeschool, was what incredible world knowledge my kids possessed. I’m a Christian, but I don’t want my kids to live under a rock. If we are to live our faith, we need to get out in this world – be in it, but not of it. They are well rounded young people, stand up for their fellow human beings, share their faith when appropriate but never shove it down someone’s throat, and do their best to build on and share the gifts they’ve been endowed with. We ascribe to the philosophy of paying it forward and teach it to others in the hopes of inspiring them to do the same. We’ve rescued and found homes for hundreds of animals over 18 years. We’ve reached out to and supported homeless individuals, built community gardens, read to children and taught them to crochet.
Being confident enough to be kind…even when it isn’t cool…is the strong suit of both my kids. Faith isn’t fragile, but children are. Allowing them to gain strength in who they were before the world tried to destroy them was one of the best benefits of homeschool.
#1 son, love you maxim, “be confident enough to be kind”. Wonderful concept. Thanks.
“I’m a Christian, but I don’t want my kids to live under a rock. If we are to live our faith, we need to get out in this world – to be in it, but not of it. They are well rounded young people, stand up for their fellow human beings, share their faith when appropriate but never shove it down someone’s throat, and do their best to build on and share the gifts they’ve been endowed with…Being confident enough to be kind…even when it isn’t cool, is the strong suit of both my kids.”
Wow. If there were more Christians like you, #1 Son, there’d be less utterly-turned-off-by-organized-religion people like me.
I should add, “more Christians like you AND YOUR KIDS”…”
Just saw the program… don’t you just hate the Church of Scientology?
It’ll take me some time to digest the low life level of just how, “anti your well being,” Hubbard devised into his multi-directional/misleading policy & tech. He took evil to a whole new level of legal sanctioned genius. Sure had me fooled. (Not now though).
It’s hard to think with the “ha ha, you didn’t see that coming did you? GOT YA! now FUCK YOU!” written into the Cof$ policy and it’s broad sweeping organisational methods of stealing money and its self preservation.
Scientology is a huge bait & switch machine.
To Leah, Mike and all who participate on A&E, many thanks, you’re earned the respect of any civilized person of any persuasion.
Bravo. Such an excellent show! This and the other special are my favorite episodes. The quoting and showing of the exact policy and source writings is absolutely essential and inarguable.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, all who were a part of this episode and who made it happen.
Aside:
Why include the bit about the Orientation film? This hasn’t been shown in years. Larry Anderson asked for his money back in… 2009/2010. (the Tampa Bay article about it is January 2010)
In the bubble, we didn’t know this happened. We just knew that the film was not being shown “right now” as it was being “updated” or something. I was at Flag a whoooooole lot in the time between then and now, and that film is nowhere.
I haven’t signed up for a service in a bit of time (hiding etc) but as of really rather recently, the film is not shown and hasn’t been “redone”.
It would have been great to have the bit about the film in your show, but also add in that Larry left and asked for HIS money back!!! There’s even a youtube of Larry’s recording of Tommy Davis trying to handle him on this whole thing.
That is a good idea. If anyone has a link to the audio of the MAA talking to Larry Anderson about getting his money back etc, let’s post that here so people can hear a real “handling”
Whole episode great, but the final moments of comments took my breath away. Best yet!!
This A&E episode is the best yet. Straight to the heart of Scientology’s money grubbing basic mission.
Mike, an interesting question came up while I was watching a Chris Shelton video. When you were head of OSA and an issue with OT8 material was being reviewed, were you allowed to work that issue? As I understand it, in theory no $cn was allowed to view OT materials above ‘their grade’. Or was there an exception made to allow you to make a decision about this OT8 issue?
Again, thanks for laying your life on the line to expose the harsh reality of what $cn really is about. You have saved many people from the misery and abuse foisted on them if they had joined $cn.
No, I was not. I was simply informed it was a forgery.
Mike, thanks for the answer. I forget there is always a work around within $cn, such as the simple answer of making OT material presented by outside critics being ‘it was simply a forgery’.
I believe OT8’s EP is ‘Truth Revealed.’ If that is correct, and having read the original OT8 materials, makes perfect sense. Hubbard is revealing himself as Lucifer. The OT8 materials now were just made up. Mike, a little help here if I’m off base.
Mark –
Just as a note: In the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s (I left at this time), as a Class VIII, I CSed all the OT Levels (old OT 7ep, old OT 4, old OT 5, old OT 6 and “Full” OT 7), repaired L’s and handled many other Upper Level Case Supervising even though I had not completed all of those levels myself at that time. The benchmark was OT3.
I have no idea what twisted tech AppleBoxBoy had going since that time as his oily, stunted fingers weaving themselves into the tech was what caused me to leave.
Wow, wow, wow! That’s what I have to say about last night’s episode. How can the government continue to turn a blind eye?! They are missing out on millions in tax dollars! Mike & Leah, I am a huge fan & cheerleader for u both! Keep on keepin’ on!! This is what you both were put on the earth to do, to help others & make the world a better place.
It’s so incredibly frustrating that the IRS continues to allow them to operate as a religion. Certainly, there are enough former high-level Scientology members with insider knowledge (such as those on last night’s episode) that can come together and blow the whistle so Scientology has their “religious” status revoked. It has to start there. It’s obvious how our federal government is squeamish over lawsuits targeting religious groups —ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP— I fear that until this is achieved, Scientology will continue to destroy lives…
Cyl, no one in the Gov can revoke religious status.
I second the motion Lajura. ?
I am just amazed, astounded, blown away..by this program!! Each episode goes deeper into this abyss of L Ron Hubbard’s mind, Scientology, brainwashing, thought stopping,mind control and resulting ?Cherch? of Scientology.
Last night’s contributors ( as they all have been) were excellent, succinct, concise, well spoken. This helps me, because I’m a new-to-this never-in.
Thanks to A&E, for fearlessness. I predict a a seismic change in media, in broadcasting because of your refusal to cave under bullying, smearing, stalking. Love A&E! Love Mike, love Leah, Love everyone who has stepped up to contribute to the expose. (Expozay)
Much love!!
Now that a million tax payers have been educated about Scientology, maybe something could be added to the series to direct them to a petition to get the IRS off its ass.
Right!
I thought you were great last night Mat, but in an interview you did with J. Augustine, I seem to recall you talking about how regges dictated to the C/Ses how many intensives to TE for preOTs or PC’s. This is straight up criminal (like so much the church does) but I don’t think it was talked about on Aftermath.
Agreed.
Why wasn’t the petition brought up on the show?!!
It’s gone from 11,2xx to ~11,9 in the last 5/6 days but think an opportune time to make the public aware of it was missed.
Maybe there is a dynamic that I don’t know about, i.e. keeping the show from seeming like it is “promoting” the petition and possibly making it lose some strength. I don’t know but it is unbelievably frustrating to see this non-sense scam continue for even one more day.
There are a number of reasons, you hint at one of them. There are all sorts of legal concerns about every show as I am sure you can imagine.
But secondarily, like earlier petitions, this is unlikely to accomplish anything. Direct contact to elected officials is FAR more likely to achieve something. It fosters the idea they have done what is needed by signing a petition. My message, and the message we have had on the show is to contact your elected representative.
Mike,
A litigation minefield. I put A and E execs that played a role in getting the program on without allowing the organizations intimidations in very high regard. Regardless of what the immediate motivation was. Not to say that putting an end to the egregious acts wasn’t the #1 priority but even if it were primarily network profit (let’s face it, we live in a capitalist society, and I have yet to see a better alternative), it took some balls. The IRS petition while not directly able to accomplish much, it can be used as a tool to emphasize a point to our local representatives. I do appreciate the direct response.
Random ramblings about the show. Leah seems driven by the feeling of being taken advantage of, yourself driven by making wrongs in life right again. The chemistry between you two with these traits seems to be a perfect recipe for the cure to this infliction on our society. I admire both of you and it is no surprise the show has already taken home an award with likely more accolades in its future.
When I see the regurgitated attacks against the show’s guests my immediate instinct is anger but then that evolves to sympathy. Sympathy for the members that are living a life of the indoctrinated mind. I begin wondering where that line ends? Where in the organization ranks does the line from fallacy to knowing exactly what is happening get crossed? Maybe it is a haze of rationalization in execs all the way to very top regardless of how difficult that may be to accept. What I do know is, it is the metaphorical train wreck in slow motion and look forward to the inevitable. The government to re direct their assets to help current and previous members heal is the real “ideal”.
Thanks again for the persistency towards good you and Mrs. Remini have shown!
-R.G.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Loved your comment RG. I enjoy your insight.
If the church has all this money, why give the members only $50 a week? It makes no sense.
I saw this last week. It was on Escaping Polygamy
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865636384/Department-of-Labor-sues-FLDS-Church-alleging-child-labor-violations.html
This is one of the reasons the cult has so much money, SLAVE labor.
Maybe it’s because they can…why pay more than what they can get away with? That would be out-exchange, right?
It makes perfect sense if you’re a criminal.
Donna, it’s because the small amounts add up.
Scientology probably has around 5,000 Sea Org members and staff. If they paid them minimum wage or a bit above, say $400 a week more, that would be $2 million in additional payroll, or $100 million a year. They have all that money, precisely because they don’t pay people.
Interestingly, I’ve seen figures suggestion that Scientology’s cash reserves of around $1 billion, are attributable to “money on account” paid in advance for services that haven’t been delivered – and in many if not most cases never will be, because members leave (and can’t get refunds) or die. Apparently from what was on the show last night, at least $450 million of that is at Flag alone.
So it might be said that of Scientology’s approximately $2 billion in assets, about half comes from not paying employees, and the other half comes from not paying members back for undelivered services.
p.s. I realize that the above rough accounting, doesn’t take into consideration the money given by members and “whales” to go towards “ideal” orgs and other building projects, which then show up as assets. In Scientology’s fungible money pit, that money doesn’t necessarily go towards buildings, and may end up used for other things, anyway. My off-the-cuff estimate is that building campaigns must have raised around $500 million, which would put it as the 3rd largest source of Scientology’s wealth in that accounting; there is so much money, and we know so little about it, that we’re really just dealing in ballpark figures.
It makes them into indentured servents. And, only paying them $50 a week (if their stats are high) keeps them from running away. In other words, they live and work as prisoners.
Donna, a Sea Org member who has little to no money is less likely to leave Scientology. Where do you go? How do you start a new life if you’re penniless? I believe it’s a strategy to keep members dependent upon the “religion.”
That, too.
“Where do they go,” indeed. They’re trapped.
Nevertheless, many have also LEFT and made new lives for themselves. It CAN be done. And more power to those whose desire for freedom is stronger than anything else in life.
Actually Donna it makes perfect sense from a big business perspective. They, Miscavige (and Hubbard) set up a money making machine, a business masquerading as a religion. A Sea Org member makes $50 (or less) as slave labor for 100+ hrs of work each week for the cause. They have everything they need, they are indoctrinated to believe only they are the leaders in saving the world from insanity, chaos and destruction. A volunteer group of brainwashed slaves doing all of Miscavige’s bidding, that is if they not doing some heinous form of punishment. What a deal!
Donna C May…. it doesn’t have to make sense … it is $cientology. ?
In fact, if it makes sense …. it is NOT $cientology ?
I’m hoping that every Scientologist that has left this so poisoning so called religion is seriously going to court and charging these idiots with the crimes they are doing to so many people especially David the non touchable. I understand that many people seek out some religions or cults as this is truely a cult, to find answers and to find themselves, but Scienetology is NOT YOUR ANSWER. They walk around downtown Clearwater, FL dressed in what appears to be like Naval uniforms, but they aren’t.. they look like robuts on a mission with clipboards in their hands. Oh yes and Scientology pays their taxes I was told and brings so much revenue to Clearwater, but anyone that lives here does not wish to go to downtown Clearwater that use to be so beautiful, and now you see this monstrous building across from the previous Jefferson Hotel that was purchased by this group. Scientology does not help anyone but themselves, and I FEEL for the people that have given up their Social Security and others who work so hard for nothing, other than supporting David Miscaviage who looks like a monster along with his good buddy Tom Cruise, and the rest of the celebreties that have been brainwashed. You are not guaranteed anything from these people, NOTHING, other than giving up your hard earned money to some crazy religious society. NO ONE is guaranteed a place in Heaven, so preaching that you will have a place somewhere like Heaven is insane. Ron Hubbard was a man that had crazy ideas and dilusional.
What an excellent post by Cecybeans October 25, 2017 at 2:27 am, I wish I had the ability to write like that. You are a very cool bean Cecybeans! LOL
Don’t forget to sign Mr. Augustine’s petition to the IRS. Remember people don’t have to be ex-scientologists, call everyone you know and let them know about it.
https://www.change.org/p/irs-commissioner-john-koskinen-we-demand-the-irs-commissioner-begin-an-investigation-into-scientology-s-tax-exempt-status
Thank you Bonnie – sweet of you to say! I have definitely signed it and am circulating on social media to friends.
And you can sign no matter where you live in the world. Some people questioned if only US citizens can sign. Nope, sign and share all! KAW!
You have showed how the Church of Scientology participates in rumor-mongering while being devoid of authority. When they are granted authority, as in the contracts they make you sign before service, they abuse it with one-sided legal language. The same legal language put on every e-Meter that it does absolutely nothing medically (as in they invalidate their own tech), and is merely a spiritual device – which means it doesn’t handle the mind (MEST, inverse of spiritual). Those legal documents supposedly protect the secret recording devices in each Org used to record every session, which the Russians verified when they were found in the Moscow Org when it was raided and ripped apart due to the financial predation and the secret spying it does on it’s own members.
Thank GOD DM continues to follow Hubbard policy. That alone will ensure the demise of the cult.
Can’t we hurry it along?
Of course OSD. The faster the better!
It is becoming a stick of Dynamite…..lit at BOTH ENDS……
Such a good point! I was going to say something similar. Best case senario.
Hi Wynski,
I have shared that sentiment on many occasions, and lord knows I still do. With all the footbullets and childish smear campaigns, blatant false claims etc. But when I look at the cold facts a different picture emerges. In the 3 decades that Miscavige is at the helm, he 5 x the nett worth of this business. Managed to make government agencies his lapdogs. Fenced off right full claims from high level exes. Generally controlled the lives of defectors and didn’t loose too many major court battles. It seems that he does NOT care how his shenanigans look to us and the public at large. He’s playing his game smartly. And always seem to have the edge over people or organizations that could potentially harm his empire. Whether this is all Hubbard’s writings or some of his own cunning, I would not know.
I’m in no way fan of DM. But these are facts as I see them.
Fuzzy, Miscavige may have accomplished the things you mentioned in the past, in the shadows, but the new fast paced world of social media, the internet, instant messaging, etc, etc is clearly showing that Miscavige can’t keep up. The proof is in the membership. The membership stat number has fallen off a cliff, and he can’t come up with a solution.
Miscavige can only succeed when skulking in the darkness. But with the light of truth focused on him like a laser beam, he simply can’t function.
DM has control of billions of dollars in cash and assets to underwrite his personal hold on Scientology. It should easily be enough money to maintain his authority for the rest of his lifetime. I would not count Scientology out until it is down to its last hundred thousand dollars, and perhaps not even then, as long as there is a susceptible whale or two lurking in the shadows, and a Regge trying to make quota.
It might be enough to cripple Scientology if DM gets sent behind prison bars for a long, long time, with no contact allowed between him and any Church hierarchy. I guess they could let him receive auditing during his imprisonment, it being a religious sacrament and all, but heck, DM does not want auditing.
Right now I look to Hungary and the EU for the means to deny Scientology any further inroads into modern states. If they can show to the world and to their legal system how Scientology violates laws of privacy as a matter of policy, procedure, and everyday practice, and if Scientology cannot change, or refuses to change, due to the sanctity of Hubbard’s written and spoken word, then Scientology must become a lame shadow of its former self, chased out of every state and nation that makes personal privacy a legal right.
There is no denying Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, Tony Ortega and many others have been preparing the way for the downfall of Scientology for many years. They deserve a lot of credit, as do their contemporaries and predecessors, even the on-again off-again friend/foe Marty Rathbun. For those who want to know more, Mike Rinder’s fine blog has good reading list. Tony Ortega also has a great blog, and Leah, Mike, and a brave cast of former Scientology members appear on the award-winning A&E TV show ‘Leah Remini – Scientology and the Aftermath.’
Well, despite all the horrific stories from Warren Jeffs….HE is still permitted phone calls with his FLDS flunkies…..so he’s running the show from behind bars where he will sit many years. His followers to this day are firmly believing he will be released soon………….they don’t think he “belongs in prison for child rape”……& to them he holds the same rating…..as the “Prophet”…….
Great comment. I fully agree. On the part of DMs incarceration, that’s not very likely to happen. Big ass lawyers and a judicial system that allows almost anything under the first amendment, and a government who will not investigate. I think DM stays at the helm until he dies. I don’t think he’ll ever step back or even tries to make a run with the money. No, I think he’ll stay until his dying breath in control. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.
Yeah….but…..Holy Crap Batman…..he WILL “live again in another body”…..& then want to take over COS yet again,….now that’s some funny shit!
Fuzzy, since Miss Cabbage took over the church has lost >90% of its members. It just sucked the blood out of them. The Church has been DECLINING in size since ~1976-77. It hasn’t had a year of membership growth since then.
I’m in full agreement with that! Hell, even when the old man was running it, things weren’t expanding everywhere.
I wrote my comment from the perspective that DM knows he’s running a scam. And that he has been able to perpetuate it for as long as he’s doing it. Media exposure now is accelerating membership decline. But I don’t think he cares about that. He doesn’t want “un-qualled” DBs who can’t donate anyway. His main concern is keeping celebs and big donors happy. And using tax tree dollars to maintain his position.
Name calling and nasty gossip are not a professional response, your show is thoughtful and insightful, any intelligent person can recognize the difference. I believe you have them running in circles. Good for you.
There is so little substance to these ramblings on scientology postings that I appreciate that you, Mike, whip out the eye bleach and wade through the drivel for us. They are fooling only a few bubble dwellers and probably far fewer than they believe.
This is how the real world sees scientology.
I shared some of this with Mike previously backchannels but a group of my childhood friends from a small New Mexico town, none of whom have even had a breath of passing familiarity with scientology were discussing how Tom Cruise has become a caricature of himself. I dropped Mike and Leah, Aftermath into the conversation to see how it would float. Here are a couple of the responses
J: ( currently residing in Indiana) “ Wow! I have watched every episode of Leah Remini and Mike Rinder’s shoe. I am glad they are doing that show to help others!”
D: (currently residing in UT) “Val, I just googled “Mike Rinder” and discovered some sites that viciously slam former members of the church of scientology (Mike and Leah Remini, among others). Sure enough, down at the bottom of the page it reads “© 2017 Church of Scientology International. All Rights Reserved.”
Way to keep it classy, Church of Scientology International.”
K: (resides in MD) asked if I knew the name of Tom Cruise’s plastic surgeon. I said I was sure I could get it for her for the price of a billion year contract and the possibility of being the next Mrs Cruise. She replied.
“Yikes! I will stick to Oil of Olay and cucumber slices.”
Yesterday I was having a discussion regarding road maintenance with a crusty old retired US Navy Submarine commander who lives on a remote ranch in the middle of WY. He was discussing the importance of keeping everything in ship shape and the origin of that term.
Much to my surprise, he then proceeded to slam LRH and his fake Navy and his appropriation of naval terms and his slipshod maintenance and him making the Navy look bad just by pretending to have been associated with it and how If I didn’t already know about it I should watch A&E – Aftermath. We then had a long discussion about my past experiences.
Mike. Leah. Thank you. You are making an impact.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” — Carl Sagan
Clearly (no pun intended), Scientology’s claims are extraordinary, and, purportedly science-based. But based on science Scientology is not; rather, it relies upon as its source of truth the lunatic ravings of a mentally disturbed individual who possesses no scientific training whatsoever. That person is, of course, L Ron Hubbard.
If you walked into a mental ward and L Ron Hubbard was there gibbering on about Xenu the galactic overlord, engrams, body Thetans, “the wall of fire”, and “hanging out in the asteroid belt of Saturn” ad nauseaum — you would rightly conclude that he was where he belonged. Behind secured doors and proximate to on staff psychiatrists, strait jackets and Thorazine.
Yes. Thank you to the Garcias. They have done a great service in exposing the fraud and deceptive ways the church extracts money.
I had a hunch when I was in that my Technical Estimates (TE’s) were being inflated, especially toward the end. It was Mat Pesch that convinced me of it and validated the notion that I was being “qualified” just like a car salesman does and my TE’s inflated accordingly. It is truly CRIMINAL what the church is doing to extract not just money for services but THE MOST MONEY POSSIBLE according to what the church determines that parishioner can afford and dictates to case supervisors (CS) who in turn write lengthy and unnecessary programs, and when one is getting sec checked every six months, this will include extra added questions. For those who don’t know, CSing ones own case is an indication of undisclosed overts; so most members go along with their programs. Bitch about a sec check question(s)? Forget it. You’ll get more added on.
A huge thanks to Jeffrey Augustine too. Nice job last night. His work on Scientology Money Project is invaluable.
All I have to say to the church (david miscavige) about its hate website on those who speak out is bring it on. You are proving the points. Gawd You Are SO Stupid!
Reading and hearing the ‘comments’ and ‘rebuttals’ from the cherch of scamology always reminds me of ‘South Park’. Ridiculously funny. Who writes this shit? They are in the wrong business. Apply to Trey and Matt for work writing for ‘SP’. These ‘rebuttal’ writing scientologists will have a lot better life writing for SP. Or modeling themselves as some new characters for the show. That Lying Liar Lying Blinky the lawyer would make a great character, don’t ya think. LOL. At least it would be a ‘life’.
IMDB ratings for Aftermath: 9.2 out of 10.
Dave, Lie-ontology is being seen for what it is. Your black ops twisted insane activities that once had power is fizzling out.
The lie of Hubbard, the lie of his claims, the evil that you emulate by studying Hubbard’s playbook on critics is seeing the light of day.
We know who you are, and we know what you are doing.
Last nights legal episode kicked royal ass. It’s perfectly placed after all of the human tragedy stories.
Last nights episode was a coup in my view. I’m thinking that many legal people sat up in their chairs and are taking notice. Smacking their lips so to speak.
The truth WILL bring you down your ecclesiastical ass Dave.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6244192/
Oh man… your post just gave me a future flash (a flash forward?). A late night TV ad for an ambulance chasing type law firm.
“Were you part of the Church of Scientology? Did you lose your savings, home, livelihood? Call this number now to join the class action suit against this church. They have lost their tax exempt status with the IRS and people are lining up to get their money back. Don’t wait! Call now. Operators are standing by.”
Well…one can dream.
#1 Son, that sounds mighty possible.
I’m always mind blown & greatly saddened at the gutwrenching stories of the survivors each week.
These brave people are doing a great service by telling their experiences.
It’s sickening how co$ robs, humiliated, abuses human beings & gets away with it.
I don’t much understand how people get sucked in, as “real” religious organizations dont strip you of every penny & work/abuse people but i do understand that everyone is different & everyone has different struggles that make them vulnerable.
I have recently been researching the Lisa Mcpherson murder & honestly am shocked at all the blatant desperate, vicious lies that people from co$ spewed.
How are these people not in jail?
The lies they tell as their account are astounding. They seriously have ZERO conscience, no heart & will certainly one day be held accountable for their part in her murder.
This & other unexplainable deaths in this cult is exactly why what you & Leah are doing is so very important.
Most people know co$ is a disgusting cult but just as many don’t know how very dangerous & ruthless the co$ really is.
God Bless you two.
L.T.
When will our government grow a pair and get involved?? How many more abuses across the board do they need to hear about? It’s way past time to act. At the very least, withdraw the bogus tax exemption. Most importantly, stop allowing the child abuses and breaking up of families!!! Thank you to Leah & Mike, and all the brave souls who have told their stories. Prayers for those who took their lives, and for the loved ones they left behind. All this is so heartbreaking. Enough!!
IMO the government will grow a pair when the groundswell is so loud they can no longer ignore it. I sincerely hope it is headed in that direction.
Yes indeed. The US needs to lead the way on this issue, it’s Scientology’s country of origin. Once Scientology is brought to account in the US the domino effect will ripple across all Govt’s of the world with a Cof$ operating on their home soil.
What’s that US saying? A Govt by the people for the people, or something like that. Be nice to see that sentiment flex it’s muscles.
I always look forward to your dissection of the smear sites. Your wit and wisdom prove exactly why you were chosen to be their spokesman, and held that position for so long! Thank you, Mike.
It was another great episode. How the COS remains classified as a religion is baffling. It is the worst kind of scam business I can imagine. If I bought some magic elixir from a pitch man in the street, at least I would have something to drink. At the end of your journey up the Bridge, a Scientologist has nothing. Worse than nothing.
Awesome episode tonight (in aus time)- the gloves are truly off & it was a bloody good whack! Very insightful once more but I’ll be watching the encore screening again in a couple of hours. There’s so much to take in and even though my understanding is getting better, the subject is huge (& intense). The people who appear on Aftermath, including the hosts, aren’t afraid to just speak truth – that’s what gives them authenticity (& makes them believable). Unlike some, who deliberately obfuscate in order to ‘baffle them with bullshit’ – cause I’m still trying to get passed ‘semi-colons beget semi-colons’ & how those ‘mistakes’ by dopey free-ranging editors simply confuses the shit outta people! LOL!!! Seriously, I’m shit with my grammar & am still not quite sure when to use a comma (which can on occasion alter meaning if they’re seriously out of place) but my uni tutors never got confused with what I was trying to say in my essays. Never to the extent that I had to re-write the entire thing & certainly NEVER because of a semi-colon!
Mike Rinder – dead set legend & still true blue! ?
Leah Remini – dead set legend, much respect! ?
PS – how is human dna explained in scio? Can anyone help? Thanks in advance ☺
Ditto on the salute to Mat Pesch, Jeffrey Augustine, Luis Garcia and Ted Babbitt… Scientology’s ripoff commercial enterprise is being exposed for what it is, and in well documented fashion! The general public needs to be protected from this criminal organization by a Federal agency like the IRS or the Justice Department’s RICO Act.
Thank you for keeping the legal pressure on Scientology. During my tenure from 1972-1989, I wasted about $120,000. My only recommendation is that Scientology should contain a warning label similar to a dangerous chemical.
If this type of warning existed in 1972, I could have avoided it:
1. L. Ron Hubbard researched the occult from about 1923-1949. He developed his own personal religion starting in 1954. He is now selling an outdated religion to you.
2. Nothing really works in Scientology because Hubbard was operating without a valid scientific background from wrong fundamentals.
3. Scientology is toxic and should not be inhaled. Keep proper ventilation and avoid contact with the eyes.
4. Hubbard wanted to act in the role of the anti-Christ. He got his fundamentals from Crowley, Blavatsky and others. Read them to get a perfect understanding of Scientology.
5. Hubbard’s science fiction is nothing but a re-hash of Theosophy. You can find Xenu in Middle Ages literature. Hubbard just changed the names. There is really nothing original in all of Scientology. Even Blavatsky suggested the e-meter in 1875. Matheson developed it.
6. You cannot return this product to the manufacturer. Proceed at your own risk of damage to your mind.
Thank you, George…still reading.
Great news. Keep in touch. I’m working on a free website.
Go George!!
As someone still living the spiritual quest life, I sometimes see Hubbard in the metaphysical evil catagory.
1) he hated the Great Christ. Christ was for love and unity
2) he claimed to be the Anti Christ
3) he jokingly claimed to be the Prince of Darkess
4) he craved power and money
5) he taught others to harm people to protect himself and Scientology
6) he taught that feeling oneness/unity with all of life is from an implant.
7) he affirmed power over others to enslave
8) he third partied all other spiritual paths
L Ron Hubbard was a devotee of metaphysical evil. L Ron Hubbard played the black hat. L Ron Hubbard, through sex magic with Parsons, was trying to bring evil into the world.
I would have to say that Scientology is proof that he succeeded.
Hubbard’s hatred of Jesus is all the proof I need to conclude that he was a student of the black arts.
Scientology is an evil force. Whether that is defined in spiritual terms or moral terms or both; Scientology is a demonic force.
It’s secrecy and thuggery has been its best defense. But now, in the age of free information, the wicked witch is melting.
Leah, I see you are wearing a cross. That made me so happy that you are seeking the God of Love ❤️.
Hubbard’s darkness is devolving with the light of truth. Thank God!!!!
Hubbard also poisoned the idea of a beautiful afterlife. To Hubbard, the afterlife was all implant stations.
Scientologists are taught to whisper in the ear of dying people to find a hospital and pick up a body and get back to giving money to Scientology.
Even in death people are being regged.
Scientology is an evil force. Running BTs open people up to dark forces.
From a metaphysical perspective, there are lower worlds, lower vibratory regions where there are souls hungry for physical bodies but cannot be born because of their karmic patterns.
I believe the OT levels open people up to these lower regions.
People who think my words are bunk, I’m ok with it. I’m not a materialist. I believe in and have experienced some of these things.
There is a spiritual side to life. In fact, it’s all the sides of life.
L Ron Hubbard aspired to a metaphysical evil. He succeeded.
“By their fruits ye shall know them”
Yo Bro!
Keep going Brian. Yes, Hubbard opened the way to the dark forces by running BT’s on the “OT” levels. This is soooo true. I found that out for myself. In itself, that fact alone, makes Hubbard demonic.
If someone already had an inclination toward “dark forces” then scn might lead them there. I don’t see that scn would “trick” anyone into it.
For me Richard, it was a slow insidious evolution. I shutter sometimes when I remember how we thought.
He, Ron, cleaved us from society with the doctrine of wog, meat body, homo sap, non scientologist.
Made us feel special, then imprinted us with the doctrine of the SP.
We did not choose to go under. Be under we went. He was very good at controlling and psycho manipulating our human values.
Thus mothers reject their children for the greater good.
That mother was a slow boiled frog. I’m not sure these people know what’s happening to them. I sure didn’t.
Since Ron was a . . . (fill in the blank), then everyone who participates in scn becomes like Ron? Gross generality. Tens of thousands of people who tried scn and left didn’t become like Ron. A few did.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I don’t include myself in your “He, Ron, cleaved us . . . ” category.
To varying degrees I think people did become like Ron. If you ever believed critics of Scientology are SPs then you became, to what ever degree: hypnotized by Hubbard.
If you ever gave credibility to BTs,or any of the implant theories then you became like Ron.
If you always doubted all of these things then you did not become like Ron.
I personally never met that type of member when I was in.
We all believed. Maybe you did not. If not congratulations! ??
Obviously when we left, we began unlearning the delusional lies.
Hey Richard, your post got me to thinking and I hope you don’t mind me asking some questions:
Did you ever call people who were not Scientologists wogs?
Did you ever consider going up the bridge more important than going to school?
Did you ever think that all other spiritual paths to be not as evolved as Scientology?
Did you ever consider Scientology the only way out?
And did you ever consider devoted critics of Ron to be SPs?
I truly would love to know. If you never had these sentiments then my hat’s off to you.
I definitely felt cut off from our culture from my experience.
I am with you all the way Brian and also am a life long spiritual seeker. IMHO Hubbard cherry picked from various early 20th century motivational and spiritual philosophies then mixed in his own dark interests. He presented this piece meal Frankenstein self help plan ( I refuse to call it religion) at a time when the world was becoming receptive to personal motivation ( Napoleon Hill, Robert Collier, Dr Bob and Bill W – A. A.) and a new spiritual perspectives. Perhaps, as well, the world was forging a new path for living and thinking after two horrific World Wars and the Great Depression ? Hubbards ideas were bastardized versions of well intended spiritual and self help truths ( except for the science fiction junk ) that appeared when the world was ripe for change. And then he poisoned the well.
Scientology probably sees these boorish attacks as deadly laser beams vaporizing its foes, while to everyone else, they look like froth and vomit dribbling from some mortally wounded sloth. I’ll catch up on this episode tonight. I enjoy these round tables. Very informative for us who never joined.
Another brilliant post, Mike. Spot on, as usual. And we caught your FB post re the Irish Times article about Irish speakers being duped into appearing at Miscavige’s Mouth Ramble Opening speech in Ireland. I’m somewhat amazed that black froth doesn’t appear from his cloven lips as he speaks.
https://rutube.ru/video/771f1c73ae85695d789e8a79bf1e0f44/?pl_id=1306538&pl_type=user
Link to the episode.
Watching this my wife came with idea. After Dave (rather soon) will die from a stroke while screaming on some poor chap, we shall place Mike as a COB, Jeffrey Augustine as a head of OSA and AAron as an inspector general of RTC, maybe after that things will get less crazy, at least this guys can make a deconstruction of all this crap.
Thanks once again Victor. I like your wife’s line of thinking too.
hello mike riders blog’
what a great show tonight’s episode was. A very powerful critique about fraud and theft against church members. And a real body blow to the church concerning their tax free/charitable status. If the right people watched tonight this may be the beginning of the end. Imagine a church bringing in $2 million per week? its unheard of and could only be for services rendered. i.e. its a business, not a charitable organization. If anything its way over priced. And like mike said, if it was about ‘helping people or clearing the planet’ they would give their services away.
Im a christian and there are 2.4 billion of us and more being added all the time thru births plus adult conversions. Its been round for 2000 yrs and was started by 1 man and 12 disciples who were mostly uneducated and poor. If something is real and true it holds up to scrutiny and can change the world. praise the risen son of god Jesus of Nazareth.
I will never deride the FOLLOWERS of Scientology, because they are simply dupes of the doctrine of the “church”. I came dangerously close to buying into the notion myself in the 1980s; thank God I took a step back and eventually decided there was a serious breakdown in logic regarding LRH’s teachings. It is the LEADERS of Scientology that are living in their own “bubble universe”, and I have to believe they KNOW what they are doing in they name of “religion”, but continue doing it anyway. They are no better than some of the exposed televangelists who get rich at the expense of true believers. Keep up the good work, Mike (and Leah, and all the others who have come forward to tell their stories) – fight the good fight and don’t get discouraged. Eventually, “something CAN be done about it”.
Lord Xenu is not willian for C$! He is Hero! Without him there will not be R. Hubbard!!
Everyone in the World would agree real religions don’t have hate/smear sites on ex members. My question is do you suppose the IRS is aware of these sites? Surely that would/should be enough for any Govt agency to take closer look at this cult.
Once it is shut down lrh road sign in Hollywood should be changed to ReminiRinder Boulevard 🙂
iamallright, I’ve seen muslim religious sites where the priests (Imams) call for the murder of people who leave the religion. The US Gov (and every other government) knows of these and still considers Islame to be a religion.
So, the IRS will do nothing because of that because it doesn’t bear on anything legal.
Report to the IRS things the CoS does that VIOLATES its NON-PROFIT status.
“Everyone in the World would agree real religions don’t have hate/smear sites on ex members”.
I agree but would qualify that statement by adding, “nowadays”.
Hating? Smearing? I beg to differ. Since ancient times, far, far worse, abuse has been perpetrated by “real religions”
History bears out that “real religions” for many hundreds of years hunted down those people targeted by them as heretics, sacking their cities (The Crusades) ghetto-ing and/or slaughtering Jews, stealing from “the heathen” in the name of missionary work (Hawaii) torturing non believers on the rack and/or burning them at the stake (The Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials). “Real Religion” also persecuted John Wycliffe for having the effrontery to translate the Bible from Latin into English so the common folk could read it; he was tortured and put to death for this. Galileo was also imprisoned and punished as a heretic and forced to “recant” for stating that the world was round and not flat, which did not sit well with the powers that be at the time.
Seriously, “real religions” have for the most part cruel, selfish, greedy, bloody histories and exist today only because they stopped doing their awful, unspeakable acts against those who did not believe and behave as expected. They wised up and concentrated on help, tolerance, nurturing and giving. That’s the reason the major religions are still around today, and its the only reason.
Scientology would do well to follow their example. That same cruelty and desire to punish and inflict pain, that same thirst for vengeance, seeps thru in their websites. If not for our modern, humane laws in the civilized world, they too would be as barbaric in their persecutions as the “real religions” were, back in the day.
Thank you Mat, Jeffrey, Luis, Ted, and Mike for being so brave!
Great job breaking the information down on tonight’s episode. I thought this was a very damning episode for Scientology. Jefferey landed a lot of blows in his segment. And as far as Scientology’s pathetic smear site, I would rather count the wrinkles on my dogs balls than read their very “churchy” comments about their former parishioners.
Bravo to each of you on tonite’s episode. Those of us who’ve sat across from A Scientology Registrar can more than relate. I was financially raped as many many of us were. I’m even more appalled to know head registrars were listening in on what I thought were private conversions.
Also shocking was how ‘pricing’ could be so arbitrary. I remember buying 2 intensives to finish New OT V with no discounts at Flag, and a friend buying the very same 2 OT V intensives for half off — the VERY same week from Flag. I can’t even remember what nonsense they told me as to why I paid double. I’m still financially devastated to this day from my days of doing my bridge at Flag. Again, Thank you Mike and Leah!.
The more I watch and the more I learn, the more scared I get that these people are untouchable. It saddens me to think that all those people have money sitting in there that they can’t get back. The Scientology policy writers and legal advisors who wrote up all their protection….gotta give them creds….they are fucking geniuses. This is like a weird pyramid scheme that works in reverse….YOU give all the money and when you get to the top, you find out you get NOTHING….. genius….biggest scam on earth, protected under the First Ammd. where judges don’t even want to touch it….that poor man and lawyer suing….seems the scientology will just hang them up in court another 20 years till they’re too old to continue. Criminal!!! Sounds like something out of Boston Legal or a John Grisham novel…except its real….the IRS and the Supreme Court contradicting on all the tax deductions….someone has to notice and care about that right?????….sigh…..but rest assured Mike and Leah….your exposing of all this WILL prevent new people from getting involved. The money may stay, but people will not be led in anymore with all the education you are doing. Thank you thank you thank you…for exposing theses crooks.
Wow! What an episode! It’s clear that CoS is just talking to its own members when it puts this filth out in the world because you absolutely have to be fully indoctrinated not to notice its just a whole bunch of Jerry Springer-type defamatory swill that sounds more like a jilted high school girl than a large and powerful bona-fide religious organization. Apparently they think that what works on insiders will fool the rest of the world.
DM is a lot like Kim Jung Un – when you are cloistered in your own little bubble and don’t get out much, and everyone around you is a controlled sycophant, then it stands to reason you have to use schoolyard logic and bully tactics because you aren’t sophisticated enough to play in the big leagues. You can tell this guy never had a real job in a real corporation where he had to use political savvy, diplomacy and logic to win arguments, just specious and spurious solipsism. He belongs in a banana republic because all he can do is call people names and tell lies. Fortunately, he looks and acts like every bad dictator the world has seen.
What I thought was remarkable about this very well done episode was how clearly you showed that, regardless of CoS claims that it is a “religion”, it doesn’t look, sound, or behave like any genuine religious organization. The dogma it espouses is absolutely immaterial. It’s not about “bigotry” because this does not dispute doctrine in any way shape or form (in fact, the CoS “waivers” do a pretty good job of indicating they don’t stand behind their own doctrine themselves in a court of law if people should request the refunds they claim are readily available).
This model goes beyond simple “quid pro quo” because it is completely and totally TRANSACTIONAL in nature. That is the biggest no-no in any religion. ( And one of the main objections rebellious renaissance Europeans had against the Catholic church was selling “beneficences” or accepting prescribed amount “donations’ from parishoners designed to fast-track their way out of sin and basically buy box seats in the afterlife. That kind of quid pro quo corruption – and not necessarily ideological differences – was one of the main things that led to the Reformation movement that also spawned the various Christian sects that now make up the religious right in this country (what an irony they are providing cover for the same kind of racket in CoS.).
It’s one thing to hound members for donations – they all do it. And both religions and philanthropic organizations have little ways of honoring the big donors. Name plates, different “levels” of sponsorship, honorariums – that’s normal to recognize their generosity. And the size of the recognition can certainly be contingent on the size of the donation. BUT, it is never a pre-requisite for a specific service leading to “enlightenment”. Religion itself is free. It’s recognition that costs. And having a tiered system of specifically priced “products”, including discounts and incentives is just freaking unheard of. It’s a church, not a freaking a la carte restaurant menu.
The ultimate definition of a religion as something that absolutely eschews a quid-pro-quo or contractual business model is one of the main reasons it enjoys separation of church and state today. Those that stray from that model get into hot water really quickly. And CoS doesn’t just stray – it is simply a bare-bones wolf of a profit machine wearing the sheep’s clothing of a religion to hide its naked avarice.
Setting up a religion based on largely volunteer or low-wage labor that engages in hard-sell, high-profit sales industry tactics to induce people to pay ahead for services, beyond their means or credit ability, engages in sales quotas that are only measured in dollar amounts (instead of people “served”), complete with “commissions”, and punishes sales people who do not deliver, is the quintessential model of Gilded Age cutthroat capitalism, and the antithesis of religion. Tricking people into signing contracts and sabotaging any ability to get a refund is just fraud plain and simple, and we have all sorts of laws to protect consumers from such predatory practices.
It’s why we aren’t required to purchase products to enter sweepstakes to win. Why predatory mortgage companies can be litigated against. Why there are disclosure laws in real estate and lemon laws for selling vehicles. I’m sorry, but if a “religion” is behaving exactly like a disreputable greedy megacorp (say, Big Pharma?) then they need to be stripped of their disguise and exposed for the exploitative plundering pirates they are. The same protections for consumers should be made for parishoners, especially if they are being treated as nothing more than marks.
Companies that refuse to stand behind their product or service claims – to allow fair arbitration – are litigated for fraud. They can’t flip flop and hide behind the skirts of being a religion. Because their transactional nature exempts them from that claim (as do the “contracts” and “waivers”). We all need to pressure the IRS into either taxing CoS for operating like a for-profit business model or forcing them to behave like an actual religious organization is required to behave, which is NOT like a predatory bailbond or payday loan institution.
Frankly, I think all the immature name-calling and reputation smearing indicates their true weakness. They don’t know how to operate in the real grown-up world, so they act like vicious little animals toward unhappy parishoners or critics. Real religions don’t bully people. They don’t need to. Especially ones who claim their superior “science” will eliminate the mere mortal afflictions of anger and spite and hatred and war. CoS proves to the world with every insult they hurl that their philosophy is bogus simply by being petty and cruel to their detractors. That kind of WWF response alone will dry up that $2 million a week in profit. It just reeks of failure. Not to mention hypocrisy. And rampant hypocrisy is a big reason why organized religion is universally in big trouble right now.
Excellent comment. Thank you.
That was a great comment and it cleared up several points that I had questions about as far as how can you be at church and make people buy things? Or in this case buy their so-called religion? I think it’s the only religion I’ve heard of that makes you pay before you get in the door.
Wow, that was an amazing comment and well written. Thank you. It was such an excellent episode and is what my husband and I experienced just a few years ago. Such big kudos to Luis Garcia. Jeffrey Augustine and Mat Pesch. What goes on behind the scenes to get money is just so crazy. What an absolute scam. This was a really important episode as it exposes what a money hungry
corporation/money scheme” this is. I just hope that the government is watching and something happens. The Garcia’s need to just keep plugging away…………
Cecy,
You hit all of the high notes perfectly! Great job.
Thanks guys for your kind words! – Mike is especially wonderful at breaking down things in a way that makes it easy for those of us in WogWorld to understand (that may be a pejorative term but it is starting to feel like a place of privilege given what these folks have gone through).
I hope he is writing a Deconstruction Manual on CoS that summarizes all this good info. (The glossary of terms will take up half the book, I’m afraid!).
I love the way Leah and Mike function together as a team – like she’s the heart and he’s the mind – in helping people understand how toxic this organization is to so many. In any other situation, DM would be behind bars.
Brilliant analysis, Cecy, and so very well-written as well!
“The ultimate definition of a religion as something that absolutely eschews a quid-pro-quo or contractual business model is one of the main reasons it enjoys separation of church and state today. Those that stray from that model get into hot water really quickly.”
I completely agree, but would just change that last sentence to read, “Those that stray from that model SHOULD get into hot water really quickly!”
$cn fraudulently obtained its 501c3 tax-exempt status in ’93, almost 25 years ago, and has been violating the conditions under which it is required to operate ever since. Thousands of individuals have been defrauded, with many experiencing total financial ruination at the hands of this lying, thieving fraud scam.
Time to drive the last silver spike through the dark heart of this undead beast of a killer cult…NOW!
I particularly like your analogy. I imagine little Davy dressed up like a Halloween vampire being chased away by ex-members bearing wooden stakes with court case numbers written on them! This is a killer cult – literally and figuratively – and on many levels.
Sharp insight Cece. A post a wish the IRS can read. You deduce Scientology’s corruption with great insight.
Well said Cecy. I concur wholeheartedly. You’re quite something!
I act and think more or less like a blunt instrument when I find out about bad things people do to others. I’m not allowed to say what I really want to do to them, but your words substitute wonderfully in our open social interactions.
Thank you Yawnalot! Many years of training writing poison pen memos in workplaces where I had to carefully leash what I wanted to say in person and learn to use words in such a way that people might not realize they had been stilettoed until the bloodstains on the carpet had dried. It kept me out of trouble with Legal that way, too, lol.
LOL, yep you’re good, but there’s also a real sense of achievement to be had by smashing some asshole in the face when they deserve it. Their look of complete surprise and horror as they fall… priceless! Those days are long gone but oh the memories…
Superb comment, Cecybeans, and you write beautifully.
One of the best comments I’ve read.
GET THEM! You are breaking down the wall. Don’t give up. Don’t stop.
OMG!!! This cult is a mindfuck!!
Teen, these people are the most ethical folks on Teegeeack! You must be thinking of another cult.
Betcha they don’t sell brownies either.
Sore jaws from being a clam ? Scientology requires such exacting, precision like standards from everyone and this is the best they can do ? Crap, at least they could of left us sore jaw types with a bit of dignity and said it was from being a hammerhead shark or a stingray. Hummm…wonder if they are thinking Little Necks or Steamers, no maybe quahogs ?
As always in scientology, they attack the women for being “sex fiends” and “promiscuous sluts” …just goes to show, what an impotent creep Hubbard was.
Why don’t the fellas get equal billing?
You mean Fair Game’s not fair?
Jane, you ignorant slut. (remember that bit from SNL?)
Scientology is facing renewed allegations of abusive and cult-like conditions of followers. A string of psychiatric facilities run by the Church of Scientology in Cannon County, Tenn. have been closed after police reportedly found that patients there were being held against their will in crude trailers and cabins in the woods. Former Scientologists have accused the Church of holding people against their will and adopting bizarre remedies for mental illnesses due to their founder’s opposition to psychiatry. Marc Vallieres, the operator of the facilities, was charged with two felony counts of facilitation of kidnapping and two other men working at the facility pled guilty to misdemeanors.
Mike will you be discussing this in any of your upcoming episodes?
Holy smoke! That certainly needs to be reported on so everybody can see! Those poor people ….it is kidnapping! I hope they can help the people that were kept at these so-called facilities
Tony O had a few articles about it, citing a local paper (The Cannon Courier) a few months ago. Here’s a link to one:
https://tonyortega.org/2017/05/03/notorious-tennessee-scientology-facility-shut-down-when-patients-found-held-against-their-will/
This one, about the families’ reactions is interesting, too:
https://tonyortega.org/2017/05/05/families-of-rescued-patients-are-sharply-divided-on-scientologist-run-tennessee-hellhole/
SHEEEEIIIIITTTTT. I made a punctuation error and didn’t catch it until a couple of hours later.
Better sell everyone a new version of my comment for 87 zillionty dollars.
This stuff is no joke. The perpetrators paid fines and are on probation. Facility and website is shut down, however, despite the church’s claim that they were operating without church permission or sponsorship…found this 2009 press release on the Citizens Commission on Human Rights WordPress blog http://www.cchrstl.org/wordpress/2009/09/13/life-center-for-a-new-tomorrow/
Here is an article on the arrests..
http://fox17.com/news/local/tennessee-scientologist-charged-with-facilitation-to-kidnapping-of-two-people
If CCHR was promoting it…you can bet SCN knew all about it. If someone can drum up a cached copy of the old website for the facility bet you’d find the same IAS licensing endorsements you find on M-K centers.
Great program, Mike, Leah and your guests… You’re all heroes.
Truly incredible and well done episode as always. This is the one that every elected official, law enforcement, Feds –everyone needs to see.
Wonder if you or anyone can answer a question regarding the psychiatric part of the contract when a person enrolls? Contract says something to the effect that the person grants the power and authority to the cherch/Scientologists in the event the person would ever find themselves in a psychiatric facility, basically, any Scientologist can just come and get the person out by showing that document.
That’s not true… I know of a Scientologist who also had a separate Psychiatric Living Will obtained through CCHR. More than 10 years later, this person was wrongfully Baker Acted (a mandatory three day hold in a psych facility) It happened around 2009/2010, I think…. (a vicious act orchestrated by some ill-meaning people that wanted control of the person’s life and finances…)
And then there’s scientology….
The person was imprisoned against their will–and wanted out, obtained the psychiatric living will, presented it to the facility with the aid of other Scientologists and was still unable to leave for three days…
So much for a scientologist having “protection” from the “damaging effects of psychiatry…” So much for the person’s “religious rights” that were violated….
Where was the power of the cherch to act in that case?
One would think that if the cherch did not protect this person from being held against their will this would be a breach of the scientology contract?
Just wondering….