Inside an ideal org
I was in San Diego last weekend and swung by the new “ideal org.”
Here is what scientology displays on their website, presenting this as “California Dreaming Becomes Reality”:
Here is the non-dreaming reality:
It was 6pm on Saturday — Memorial Day weekend.
Just two blocks away, there were literally thousands of people in the streets going to restaurants and bars in the Gaslamp District. They literally overflowed the sidewalks and spilled onto the traffic.
This is not an org that lacks nearby body traffic.
The entire ground floor is windows (used to be parking before they turned it into an “ideal” FART Div 6). BUT THEY HAVE COVERED UP EVERY WINDOW so nobody like me can come along and take photos of the completely empty spaces. They do nothing private behind these curtains, they just do nothing at all. If they were busy with people it would be the best advertising possible, but a completely empty space is the worst message – so like much in scientology the answer is to cover it up.
It really looks inviting.
There was ONE person in front of the org.
A staff member smoking a cigarette.
She evidently has not completed the PTS/SP course. She turned her back to avoid looking at me and appearing in the photo — but didn’t put out her precious cigarette (it was likely worth more than she would earn for the whole day).
Dave Myers, who reportedly gave $1 million to the ideal org (I am told he mortgaged himself to the gills, sold all his assets and donated his retirement savings) scurried out a few minutes later to take pictures of me and report in to his seniors that he had spotted a major SP in the vicinity.
Like the Valley and Inglewood “ideal orgs” I have also seen recently, this place was completely and utterly dead.
Not much of a return on the million bucks he sank into the place.
I wonder what he thinks? No doubt he has been convinced that unlike all the OTHER ideal orgs, San Diego is an off-policy, out-ethics shithole full of PTS scumbags that are not making it go right like everyone else on earth.
Sad.
Mr. Rinder,
I can’t tell you what this post means to me.
I worked on staff at this organization for 9 years [I grew up in Scn] before walking out the door and never looking back, in 2007. This was long before the building was renovated.
The Ideal Org Project was pushed very heavily on the parishioners and the staff. [I was there for that part.] It was a “holy grail” of sorts in that, if we somehow managed to raise the massive and inconceivable amounts of money required [I’m sure you know Mr. Meyer is *not* alone, nor was he the most major contributor] that magically, all problems would be resolved and the org would “boom” [grow rapidly] and reach the size of Old Saint Hill.
Honestly though, given the church’s propensity for falsifying statistics, I wonder if Saint Hill was the size of Old Saint Hill, but I digress….
These photos shows me: A) I’m not crazy and B) never looking back was the best thing I ever did for myself.
THANK YOU for your efforts. Your writings and the work you and Leah are doing on A&E is incredible. It helps tremendously to see others’ stories and to know I’m not alone.
Thank you. So happy to hear this. It is People like you that make the effort worthwhile.
Since there is mention about trolls on this thread I did some research. Check out these troll instructions and see if you can match that s motive to anyone.
1) Research your targets and learn what their arguments are. Then avoid those arguments like the plague.
2) Drag them off-topic – the further off-topic the better. Remember, you are trying to waste their time.
When the purpose of a blog is to drag people off the topic of how to achieve their original purpose, then the entire blog is a troll. Legitimate criticisms of abuses isn’t trolling, but stuck focus on “it’s ALL bad” is supreme trolling. This blog definitely follows your “how to be a troll” instructions. I am proud to have stood up for the truth.
You need to start your own blog. One that doesnt “drag people off their original purpose” because that is only true here if your original purpose is to manipulate people into giving you money and allowing you to abuse and harm them.
I agree with Mike Rinder – If you don’t like the purpose of this blog, and don’t like the types of comments you read here, it’s time to start your own.
This is a great forum for exchanging information, experiences, views, true stories from ex-scientologists, opinions and feedback from anyone with an interest in scientology, and you are mistaken if you think the purpose for this forum is anything other than that and are destined to be disappointed if you need it to conform to what you want it to be.
Criticising this blog and the person who runs it is similar to going into someone’s home and bad-mouthing their decor, furniture, paintings, saying you don’t like their location, food, or whatever… too much of this and you will find yourself an unwelcome guest, not invited back again.
This is an open forum where people can freely post their views, but most of us know when to stop. When someone posts repeatedly time and again the same type of post, it isn’t serving the community at large. It’s like someone hammering during construction down the street, you can take the annoyance for a few hours, or days, but non-stop hammering for months on end can be a real annoyance! Stop already, for gosh sakes!
This is not your private playground. It’s intended to be a space for all, but with your constant posting, you’ve monopolized a corner of it, and set your own rules, and it infringes on the rights of others to enjoy the area. Plus, there’s that little thing about you claiming that your views alone are “the truth”. No, you do not have ownership of ‘the truth”. No one made you custodian of what is right or wrong. In your own mind, it’s the truth, but others may not agree with you, and it’s really conceited and ridiculous that you keep asserting your views are “the truth”.
You don’t like the direction or purpose of this blog, but you need to remember that the focus of it is set by the blog owner, so it’s not your call.
Many of us are annoyed by this pointless arguing and want to enjoy the forum without the never-ending bickering about something we may not even (gasp) care that much about. So, why don’t you, like reasonable adults, set normal limits for yourselves, and ration yourself to 3 posts a day, of a reasonable length, say, 3 to 4 paragraphs per post, and then post no more until the next day. That should be acceptable to you, unless you are trying to get your stats up in some way, or have a personality disorder that will not allow you to self-regulate your posting.
+100
Thank you for posting that t.j.
Thanks Brian 🙂 I’m all done now. :-p
“When someone posts repeatedly time and again the same type of post, it isn’t serving the community at large. It’s like someone hammering during construction down the street, you can take the annoyance for a few hours, or days, but non-stop hammering for months on end can be a real annoyance!
T.J., have you ever said that to the commenters who hammer the same negative claims, over and over, about the tech?
I’m glad you wrote “This is an open forum where people can freely post their views, but most of us know when to stop.” But why not say that to those who don’t stop with the negative? Those posts are by far the most repetitive – and the longest.
Hi marildi, here’s the thing of it… this blog is run by a former CofS member, who appears to be (judging by his contributions to quite a few news interviews, videos, his personal posts here, and elsewhere, and participation in an A&E TV show) – a man who has become disillusioned with the Church of Scientology, and so that is the particular focus of this blog, which then, of course, attracts like-minded individuals. So your point of view is actually the minority here, and try as you might, it is unlikely you will have much success in converting people to your stance on Scientology. So it is unreasonable to tell people to stop posting their opinions on the non-value of ‘the tech’ because that is the interest of this particular online community.
I’m thinking that Mike Rinder has observed your passion for what you believe, and M2C’s like mindedness, and sees it is largely a wasted effort here, and therefor suggested that you may be more effective in another forum of your own making.
Peace to you, and sincere best wishes… no more from me now, as I’ve reached my self-limit of 3 posts for the day, lol.
– T.J.
Hi again, T.J.
You wrote: “…his blog is run by…a man who has become disillusioned with the Church of Scientology, and so that is the particular focus of this blog, which then, of course, attracts like-minded individuals. So your point of view is actually the minority here…”
My point of view about the CHURCH is not at all in the minority – I feel the same way about the abuses and have posted many comments about it. This is the same confusion that never seems to clear up – that is to say, the church and the tech are not the same thing.
Even though the tech isn’t stated to be the focus of the blog, many people post about it. And yes, the majority are negative – but does that mean the opposite point of view shouldn’t be allowed? Mike himself doesn’t go that far.
So what I was saying is that if you’re going to tell people to stop hammering about the postitive aspects of the tech, I don’t see why you think “it is unreasonable to tell people to stop posting their opinions on the non-value of ‘the tech.’” That’s all I was saying.
I have never been been involved in the Church of Scientology because of blogs like this one. When it was popular, I was not enticed because of similar people’s opinion and reports in the press. The only people that trolls like you can influence are the poor souls trapped in the mind controlled cult that bleeds them dry and abuses them….like yourself.
M2C, Marty is back and putting out a call to all of his “petting zoo” regulars…don’t disappoint him!
Marty and I don’t get along.
Wow, I just saw that Harpoona. I feel somewhat sorry for him. Looks like he has finally gone under. Unable to forgive himself for all those years of oppressing people even though I think he made amends through his actions going after DM & the CoS.
Just saw this story about the CoS selling a building:
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2017/05/30/church-of-scientology-disconnects-with-coral-gables-location-for-6m/#.WTYSnvcdmZY.link
Mike – a question for you – first let me say that I appreciate what you are doing to expose the wrongs by the CofS. It was your (and Leah’s) series back in the winter which resparked my interest in things that I had let go for such a long time.
I was looking at an interview of you back a few years, after you had left the Church. You seemed very positive on the tech, just down on the Church with all of its faults.
What has happened in the meantime to change your opinion? You seem extremely negative on the tech, and the theme of the blog is very canted in that direction. I would appreciate your viewpoint.
Thanks.
More time. More experience. More reading. More hearing others’ experiences. More understanding of other paths. More recognition of my own understanding rather than what I was taught to believe. I do not believe everything about scientology is bad. But there is a lot more that I see that way now than I did 5 years ago.
Ok Mike, thank you.
When one is so deeply immersed into what the whole heartedly have be trained or condition to believe….they can’t see past that. When one has outside life experience, we get to see BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN.
In a cult situation or a super religious organization, you are taught to believe only ONE way, the way :they” want and need to believe. To try to “seek truth from the outside” would be viewed as blasphemy. Raised from infancy to see and know only one way, and to be TODL to even consider or try to seek other answers is SINNING.
It’s all about mind and body control……they’ve GOT YOU and they aren’t letting go easily.
Sad to say, my generous contribution to the ‘building’ fund (it was called the building fund before it was called the ‘ideal Org’ fund) $100 may have paid for the paper on the windows. What’s up with that anyway …. not enough money for curtains or is papering the windows of your church a nifty new trend? So happy I never agreed with flat out ‘donations’ and ‘fund raising’…. the current ‘command Intent.’ has created the first church to actually ‘repel’ it’s public. I stopped going long ago and far away because in my opinion it was no longer a ‘safe’ place. How sad is that!
Mike, I heard LRH once lost his tax exemption because he was benefiting personally from donations, what about the Pope of Scientology? He has to benefit big-time, there’s so many people on this planet who don’t have homes, food or clean water,why do they keep renovating all of these buildings that are empty, they’d make nice apartments,fill them up with people in need,also I Love that last show with the Australian reporter, I believe that the Scientology cult should have to openly report what they do with their money! Thanks Mike for all that you’re doing!
I currently work in one of the social betterment groups but I won’t say which one. I see the results and it’s helping make the world better but not as grand as Miscavige brags about. I quietly left the church in 2003 after my first and last trip to Flag. After 30 years I watched the culture change from free thinkers to cult robots. After I got into the Free Zone, it felt like a reunion of old friends. When you take the cult out of Scientology, what you have left is really wonderful. But you need to separate out the subject from the cult created by present management.
“After 30 Years I watched the culture change from free thinkers to cult robots”.
Well said.
I would never go into a building that has its windows papered up…no way.
“No doubt he has been convinced that unlike all the OTHER ideal orgs, San Diego is an off-policy, out-ethics shithole full of PTS scumbags …”
Well, just the fact that an SSP (Super-SP) like yourself is even thinking about the SD Org is enough to strip every OT there of his or her powers & gains Mike.
Apart from the lighting, the advertising is accurate… not a soul in sight…
Back in the good old days when the orgs were full or at least busy people still believed OT powers were real and attainable. Some benefits on the lower levels would reinforce that idea. The secrecy and mystery on the Grade Chart began at “Power”, “Clear” and then the OT levels. Does anyone remember people walking around wearing a badge saying “I’m on Power – Don’t talk to me”. Something like that. It was certainly an intriguing mystery. Who WOULDN’T want to know what THAT was about? laughter
Waking up this morning I see that my comment seems to negate the possibility of anyone attaining higher “spiritual abilities” which be not the case. I believe real sages do exist.
I wouldn’t know what abilities someone might gain on the OT levels since I didn’t do them. People still in the cherch or independents might suggest real benefits are available. Whispers were made about OT’s looking into “other dimensions” etc. etc. I suppose it just goes back to whether success stories by “OT’s” is just malarky or if they actually got any benefit. There were some juicy mysteries to think about. lol
Here’s the 1970 Grade Chart which is what I was looking at when I was in.
http://www.lotsofscam.nl/Grade_Chart_1970.png
That’s the grade chart that we had. This grade chart is a complex deceptive fraud.
It is and was a lie. Ron’s ep claims on this chart is advertising fraud. He new he was lying. He knew he was lying to an uninformed audience who believed him. Made to LOOK scientific and researched; a deliberate fraud.
Ron used our trust. He used it by lying. He gained trust by lying.
Lying is what Ron did. Lying is the MO of Milignant Narcissists. Look up definition.
This old grade chart was the cause for many people to want to “go up the bridge”. It was the cheese that leads to assuming make believe as truth.
Ron lied and lied and lied.and we trusted him.
He was the SP he warned us about.
LRH over-hyped the results of doing the whole grade chart, but that doesn’t mean there was a total absence of good results, especially at the original pre-1976 prices.
Children whine endlessly about not getting what they want. Grown-ups adjust to reality, devise new strategies and plans to handle it, and keep going.
Children?
With all due respect to LRH, the man was a science fiction writer. Fiction writers create, and his hopes bled into reality. I had great case gain on the OT levels 1-5 and excellent gain on the Ls in the Free Zone. BTW my cost for OT3 in 1977 was $810.00 I think the reason I did well in Scientology was because I never joined staff and every few years I’d leave to get away from the fucking staff cult but I’d return to LRH.
So your experience was “tech good, organization bad”?
My 2 Cents – I appreciate your positivity. Thanks!
In 1974, when I did the Bridge, there were MANY people on lines at AOLA. I was the best feeling in the world. Wouldn’t it be great to get that back? Just saying …
“No doubt he has been convinced that unlike all the OTHER ideal orgs, San Diego is an off-policy, out-ethics shithole full of PTS scumbags that are not making it go right like everyone else on earth.”
Ayup, that is the “thinking”. I will never forget the first time that I ran into this. I had volunteered at my org (Seattle) in their time of need because management, encouraged by the Goodwill Games, had put them in a building far too big for them then left Seattle to deal with the mess.
One day while I was at CLOWUS, the middle management organization behind AOLA at PAC, for some training, I overheard this conversation between teenaged SO members:
“If policy works every time when applied correctly, why are so many orgs small and struggling?“
“Because the staff members are a bunch of low IQ, out ethics druggies who are too stupid to duplicate pure LRH, or else they would be in the Sea Org. “
Funny funny Mike. I had to check to see if its Thursday. Thx for the nice weekend 🙂
I was close by today so I swung by the Austin Org to see what was going on. The parking lot for this org is actually a few blocks behind it, so that’s where I went to count the cars. On an early Saturday afternoon there were 14 cars. I don’t know how many people are on Foundation staff right now, but I’m guessing at least half of those cars are staff. Probably more though.
Driving by the front of the org there was a table with some literature on it. But no one was body routing. (That doesn’t work anymore anyway). The windows were not covered but in this org the action is really on the upper floor anyway. That’s where the course rooms are. Unless there is an event not much happens on the ground level floor anyway. But by the cars I can tell that there are less than ten people on course. Which is really bad for a weekend. Perhaps some take the bus to the org. But when I was in I never knew anyone who took the bus to the org.
They’ve been raising money for their Ideal Morgue remodeling and refurbishing project since 2004. They will keep this building and just re-do it to “Ideal” specs, not relocate. I remember the first target was around 4 million dollars. Over the years it has crept up to 10 or more. They are getting so screwed by DM. Oh well. I really don’t feel sorry for them anymore. They have to “cognite” on their stupidity on their own.
🙂
I’m surprised those poor people on staff can afford a car.
Foundation staffers tend to have M-F daytime jobs so they actually make money. Enough to buy cars.
The Ideal Org strategy is among other things in violation of LRH’s own ethics tech with regard to the handling of down statistics.
A struggling downstat org somehow manages to acquire a new building, via donations from a rich parishioner or 2 and/or the valient efforts of its middle income public and/or an IAS grant from Miscavige.
Well! A “downstat” has just been rewarded! Cut your throat, Scientologists!
Per LRH, that downstat org DOES NOT DESERVE a big beautiful new building and to REWARD it with one ONLY ensures that Scientology will get MORE downstats from this org.
That’s LRH, folks! That’s what the man said.
And it does seem to bear out, no?
Can anyone name a struggling Scientology org which, once it got its new building and according to Miscavige’s definition became “Ideal”, THEN became a booming, flourishing org delivering lots of services, making lots of Clears, OTs and auditors?
Anyone?
Miscavige, OSA, what have you to say to that?
Crickets…
Of course I’m being facetious and sarcastic because no one could answer this question when I asked it 8 years ago nor would any of the Still Stubbornly Deluded still in today even attempt to answer it now.
Specifically, the question naive moi asked of the staff of my little org was, “Shouldn’t we focus and spend money on expanding as we are in the space we already have before spending money on a new building?”
Yes, I was that naive
I Just came back from going driving past the Valley mORGe. This is the first time I’ve been by there since the ribbon yanking by The Midget COB. I went past at 2:15 today and it was 85 outside, beautiful skies and all the doors were closed and of course, all the windows have been covered up. There use to be a large plate glass window in the front where they posted signs and messages but no more. Anyway, I would love to post the pictures but I don’t see how. Anyways, the building is on Burbank, just West of Lankershim Blvd.where there is no foot traffic near their building but on Lankershim there is a Dennys, hotels, gas stations with some people walking. There were no body routers present, on this beautiful day,. I didn’t see anyone but a lone guy in the back watering a plant. The building is tremendous with a few doors but none open and all windows covered up. (Very uninviting) It looks like an industrial building except for the fact the Scientology name is on the building. There was one of their “sandwich board signs” sitting outside the closed and covered windowed door but I had to almost get on top of it to read it. Anyways, another FAIL for The COB. Yeah. Oh yeah, a side note; I do public speaking at events now and then (today infant) and I ALWAYS get to share about the Church of Fear and Intimidation (aka Scientology). Davey boy, you shoulda left me alone; but since you insisted on going after me I’m sharing my stories. SP’s are the “gifts that keep on giving” the shit right back to you Davey.
Oops, I meant to say (today in fact) not infant.
Maybe you should email the pics to Mike and/or Tony for posting.
“Infant”… I thought you were referring to David Miscavige.
Oh I love you!
You could post them anywhere (like instagram or flickr or any photo hosting site) and then link to them.
Bibi … It”s “little person COB” , not midget … got that? … LITTLE PERSON COB …
There’s no need to be politically correct when you’re talking about the Dwarfenfuhrer.
Wonder if the receptionist has a big binder with pictures
of all the SP’s? They can even statisize how many visited
the outside of the org on a daily and weekly (etc) basis.
In the late 60’s, BEFORE the Sea Org took over Church management, nearly all orgs and missions were housed in small, shabby spaces. Staff didn’t wear uniforms. Promotional outflow was meager by today’s standards. Regging (selling servuces) was very casual. But most orgs, and ESPECIALLY many missions, were growing like crazy. Many of them ended up with 200 students on professional auditor training.
This happened because tech ruled the roost, not admin. The emphasis was on genuine, caring help. Orgs and missions delivered service that really worked to give people worthwhile case gain, thereby making satisfied customers who enthusiastically recommended auditing to their friends.
It wasn’t perfect. But it was night and day different from what the Church became later.
Yep, LRH really screwed the pooch when he created the Sea Org.
And unfortunately, scientology was once part of the “counter-culture” and to a certain segment of the population being “anti-establishment” was appealing. That went the way of drive-in movie theaters and 45’s. Remember when there were lines of cars waiting to get into the drive-in? They didnt even have good sound og pictures, but plenty of them had 200 cars…
You’re right about the counter-culture appeal back in the day. It was a factor. But the main factor was tech vs admin, entrepreneurial mission holders vs the Sea Org, helping the person in front of you vs trying to save the world.
I don’t believe in the “long con” theory, but I do think LRH had a case problem with his need to control others for the greater good, rather than just setting people free. In my book his basic, tragic flaw was that he was PTS.
But the main factor was tech vs admin, entrepreneurial mission holders vs the Sea Org, helping the person in front of you vs trying to save the world.
So how come this doesn’t work today?
Mike Rinder asks: So how come this doesn’t work today?
Assuming it is an honest question my take is the following:
The majority of the skilled tech auditors, David Mayo as an example, were banished or destroyed. The few remaining stay UTR for good reason, and intend few clients. They are not passing on their skill sets.
The tech was a 1960’s development and has not been updated to the world as it is in 2017. I shied away from an opening to audit an Afghanistan war vet for the simple reason that my reality of war is 60 years out of date, nomenclature and jargon changes.
Talk and abreactive therapy are still in use and practice. The existing independent training centers use the old tech (proudly) without trying to integrate it in to current society. I’m sure a new client wants to sauna and pump vitamins for weeks to get a handle on their problems, NOT!
In short, it was a creation of the 1950s and 1960s, and cannot come up to present time. And, I see no one making the attempt.
In short, it was a creation of the 1950s and 1960s, and cannot come up to present time. And, I see no one making the attempt.
Interesting comment. I wonder if M2C does anything to accomplish this end. I have asked him in response to a couple of comments. Will see if he answers. There are a number of people who posit this “let’s get the good from the tech and apply it and all will be roses” and I wonder if those people are actually DOING anything or just telling everyone else what they should do?
We shall see if he answers.
“I shied away from an opening to audit an Afghanistan war vet for the simple reason that my reality of war is 60 years out of date, nomenclature and jargon changes.”
Seriously, Jim? You think other therapists know that particular nomenclature and jargon any better than you? Or, for that matter, that you couldn’t learn what you needed to learn? You don’t seem to have much confidence as an auditor. Maybe you never did audit that much.
Do you audit pc’s Marildi?
I am genuinely curious about this. M2C has pique’d my curiosity. You both seem to have a lot of opinions to offer about what others should do to “apply the tech” and I am curious if you practice what you preach?
Yes, I do audit pcs sometimes. I use other tech too, and I’ve seen other posters mention they still use things they learned in Scientology. It’s really not that unusual.
Thank you for answering. When you audit do you use “standard” scientology? Or do you “mix practices”? Do you charge for your services?
Why do I get the feeling I’m going to be questioned until I can be criticized for something? 😉
You’re paranoid? I don’t know.
Don’t answer if you dont feel comfortable. You are under no obligation to to do anything for anyone….
Okay. I just don’t see what difference it makes whether I mix practices or not, or charge or not. I’m not against anyone doing or not doing either of these.
My main thing has always been that there is value in the tech, and I disagree with attempts to make it appear to have no value or to even be harmful. To my mind, that in itself harmful, and it isn’t forwarding truth.
It makes no difference. I am simply curious. You post a LOT of comments here. I have no idea who you are or what you do. I am curious. I would be VERY interested to know what sort of practice you engage in and what sort of results you get. What works and what doesnt in your view and experience. What specific parts of the tech you use and think is workable.
I’m talking about the basic principles, not just auditing – the tone scale, TRs, the ARC triangle, the data on overts and withholds, PTS and SP, even battleplans. Hard to understand what there is to be curious about. You know about all those things. They can be applied numerous times during the day.
Whatever. Your choice not to answer.
I thought you would relish the opportunity. But I guess not. I am curious about how you apply PTS/SP tech and O/W’s. But you seem to become evasive and uncomfortable when it comes to specifics.
I don’t see why you call that evasive. I shouldn’t have to go on and on, as you know the basic tech as well as I do. But I’ll say a bit more about what you asked. Regarding PTS/SP tech, I definitely observe that people are adversely affected by someone who is antagonistic to them. Don’t you? With regard to O/Ws, it’s amazing how people follow suit and become very critical when they have an overt they’re withholding. You must have observed this, too.
Your evasiveness is not difficult to observe. Every request or question to you is responded with a question. Instead of just answering you seem to always pose a question in response. It’s an oddly frustrating way of communicating. Sort of a written “dirty needle drill.”
Hi Mike – what is your take on the Religious Liberty League, started by Merrill Vannier and a few others?
I wish them luck. Personally it’s not something I would waste my time on.
“Every request or question to you is responded with a question. Instead of just answering you seem to always pose a question in response.”
I think if you look back and you’ll see that besides the rhetorical question, I only asked a question on the last of several replies. Otherwise, I was answering your questions, but my answers weren’t being accepted. That’s a dirty needle drill, too.
On the last reply, I asked the question because I’m pretty sure you observe those things in life too – and know them for what they are. I thought this would answer your question in a sense, because it demonstrates that the tech is for use, along with the other principles I mentioned among others.
My my, Marildi , you seem awfully defensive, and rude. What OW’s are you hiding? Shall we pull them?
Ron himself forbade anyone messing with HIS creation.
Marildi,
Audited for 10 months at AOLA under Bill Simmons, Rocky Stump, et al.
IMO: Auditing works to the degree the Auditor and PC have, or work to establish, high empathy/affinity, common reality, and a communication level that achieves duplication. I never did well with highly emotional PCs in part because I am a Virgo, strong reality. If someone clicks with me I do not hesitate to audit.
Well, Jim, you certainly could be drilled on auditing an emotional pc, so that you wouldn’t react. On the other hand, it’s your right to not audit someone you don’t think you can help. Anyway, thanks for your reply. I have a better understanding of where you were coming from.
Mike, you certainly have been an energetic participant in “back and forth” on this thread. Just sayin’.
You also seem to be trying to change the subject, and attack the attacker by saying to Marildi and myself, “Yeah? Well if you’re so smart, what are you actually doing to apply your oh-so-great ideas? Or are you just being critical (of us critics)?”
I guess old habits are hard to break.
My Two Cents, Mike was simply asking questions for Marildi. She leaves the discussion on two people cone to her defense.
The real story here, imo, is why are you turning the attention back on Mike?
He asks questions and you and a Miraldi turn the attention on him.
You state that he “can’t break a bad habit”.
I believe that line “he can’t break a bad habit” was meant to cave him in. It was meant to cave him into guilt for past actions.
I believe that was your intention. It was a covertly hostile intention.
Things ain’t what they seem to be round here pardner!
Beekaboo!
The word Scientology is a broken brand. Anyone starting an entrepreneurial, tech-before-admin, real-help-to-individuals Indie org would have to call it something else, have substitute terminology, and use rewritten materials — in other words be a new subject in a new unit of time.
I am genuinely curious.
Are you working on this? Actually doing anything? Or just commenting about how someone else should be doing this?
My turn!
I also find the tech, such as outlined by Miraldi to be of great day to day life value. Not for the purpose of one to one auditing but as tools to help others, my family and myself with life difficulties. The Arc triangle, Tone scale, Havingness scales and PTS tech etc etc have been invaluable to me and that tech works well. Being able to help someone with their goals or to raise tone, havingness level and deal with life problems is very rewarding. In a way applying and teaching that tech is auditing. That said the tech it is currently being delivered seems suppressive and it appears it is being used to control instead of being used to free a person so that they can have the tools and knowledge to help themselves. The current sec check policies are a good example.
Ron was a wack job as it turns out, but he was a genius in codifying human behavior and in applying techniques to manage life’s issues.
Eh=eh: “I also find the tech, such as outlined by Miraldi to be of great day to day life value. Not for the purpose of one to one auditing but as tools to help others, my family and myself with life difficulties.”
You’ve basically reiterated what I said, including the same pieces of tech that I noted are useful on a day-to-day basis. Thanks for speaking up.
Why do questions cause a person to be evasive?
Why do people make make less of the questions and turn the attention on the person asking the questions?
Why would someone all of a sudden pop up to answer the question that someone decided not to answer?
Could it be we are actually watching the “tech” being applied by avoiding?
It seems to me, my supposition, things ain’t what they appear to be.
I’m genuinely curious as well and I’d really like to know what folks who are still enamored with some aspects of $cn auditing are doing with it. Do they pick and choose which processes to run or stick to the bridge sequence of progression as laid out by Elron?
Do unchurched practioners mix other practices in with their auditing, such as prayer and meditation, or do they stick to $cn methods without deviation?
Do Indies perform sec checks or have they dropped that practice of interrogation and coerced confession?
Is the Indie movement dying out or is there a new wave of auditors being groomed to replace the folks who got their initial training while still in the cherch?
I’m not interested in setting folks up so that they can be ridiculed for their beliefs or to out them so that the cult’s secret police unit can make their lives a living hell.
My interest in learning more is just one facet of my continuing fascination with $cn – one that was born out of my own experiences in the distant past and as one who’s gone on to study the mind/brain, contemplative traditions and transformative practices for the 35+ plus years since I exited the cherch.
Mike and Harpoona,
One goes to school/college and comes out with some good/bad experiences, some wins/losses , and an investment in time/money. That experience is carried forward as one lives their life. The same goes with time in Scientology
Anymore my ‘auditing’, whether metered or not, consists of two way communication with my use of questions incorporating any part of the grade chart that helps my friend work through the issue that is hanging up their happiness.
For myself, I am flat on the Scientology tech moving me further along. I am studying Chakra healing for a new ‘look’.
“to a certain segment of the population being “anti-establishment” was appealing.”
I think this is one of the reasons for the NOI-Scientology alliance. Most media coverage of Scientology is (justifiably) negative so in the eyes of NOI the powerful classes in America are out to get Scientology (in reality the powerful are probably not really concerned about Scientology one way or another). Farrakhan percieves himself to be one the establishment’s greatest enemies (in reality they probaly don’t really care about him) so it’s only natural that he would feel a certain affinity towards Scientology.
Good point, the rebellion generation. It was noticeable around the time of the Korean War, people were really beginning to question the motives of the establishment, by the Vietnam War it was in full swing – Scientology fitted somewhere in between.
This recent generation seems to have rebelled against anything or anyone old, now they are beginning to age. The world twists and turns but it pushes on regardless. Hubbard rode the existing wave at the time and made a stack of cash of which Miscavige must be truly grateful but their time is over and hopefully their corruption ceases completely soon. Now to clean up the mess or get involved in the next wave. There’s definitely a rebellion gaining momentum against mainstream politics and banking – good luck with that one!
Yes, I remember those days. It was not all bad. Thx 🙂
M2C, I want to once again offer some perspective based on what I’ve been trying to figure out in understanding this era of Scientology, based in good part in things I’ve found out from old-timers. This also ties in with what Mike said about the counter-culture movement.
It looks to me like a lot of what happened in the 1960s and even 1970s, was that Scientology became a place for idealistic young seekers to hang their hat, just as thousands of them flocked to the Haight-Ashbury district in San Francisco looking for something, anything, even if they didn’t know what awaited them. What went on in Scientology may have been as much if not more about a bunch of well-intentioned young people trying to help each other pursue a shared interest in expanding their consciousness, and to listen and to be present with one another, as any particular “tech” that provided a framework. As one wise observer of that scene later said, it was the context, not the content. And those idealists, while trying to live out their vision of what Scientology ought to be, ignored a lot of what Hubbard had said and written about things like classes of people who weren’t deserving of rights, and his totalitarian leanings.
In the 1970s, the Baby Boom started to turn into what was sometimes called a “bust” as the number of youth peaked and then dropped off, plus the later boomers and early Gen-Xers had different interests and inclinations, in some ways in reaction to the perceived excesses and failings of the counter-culture movement. Every organization, from colleges and universities, to various groups and cults, suffered from a sharply reduced demographic to recruit from, and also from changing interests of the newer generation of youth.
Into that complex mix of changing and adverse circumstances in the 1970s, Hubbard was sending the Sea Org out to enforce authoritarian control, after have been thwarted in his plans to find a country he could take control of. It’s not clear to me that Hubbard intended for anything different to happen in the end; though maybe he had though that Scientology was going to rule ruthlessly over society, and after suffering setbacks to his plans, settled for the Sea Org ruling ruthlessly over Scientology. Hubbard started to make good on some of the worst of the things that the had said and written, that had been discounted and ignored, and people who had want to see him and Scientology otherwise, were surprised by the turn of events; where else in history, including recently, have we seen that play out?
So THIS is CA dreaming? That brings to mind images of the devastatingly ugly juxtaposition of the original 60’s hippy dream and the arrival of former scientologist Charles Manson.
Makes me wonder if Charlie is still on their mailing list…
😀
Empty buildings; empty promises
Scientology through David Miscavige has become the essence of materialism.
He pays money to light up empty buildings as a sign of expansion.
Scientology has become the materialism that Ron feigned being repulsed by. Ron sent money to Luxembourg. MIscavige buys mest.
I hope that government officials are listening up. I hope they are strategizing.
Finally something we can agree on 100%, Brian.
Brian, a raid on scientology is inevitable at this point. Miscavige is probably burning files as we speak.
What about the files that aren’t filed…..yet….you know the ones “they” are always asking memhers to help file away?
How many Class V Orgs in US? Multiply by 1.5 to get active non-staff Scamologists. Probably about 40 at FSO/week (taking out org trainees) Maybe 15 each at AO/ASHO.
What’s the total Active in the USA from that?
Look at the Indie scene. Anyone can open an org that uses PURE as the driven snow “Ron’s tech” without the church suing them. They don’t have to send a PENNY to management. How many viable Indie orgs in the USA?
“Anyone can open an org that uses PURE as the driven snow “Ron’s tech” without the church suing them.”
Proof, please.
That is a pretty self-evident statement. Dror Center has not been sued. Trey Lotz has not been sued. Nobody delivering scientology outside the church has been sued since the 1980’s… What sort of “proof” are you expecting?
As the person formerly in charge of suing splinter groups, please tell us why the Church stopped suing violators of trademark and copyright law. Also explain what prevents it from resuming.
And, are you saying that Merrell Vannier’s legal work with the First Independent Church of Scientology is a complete waste of time?
Yeah, I would say that.
Heh! 🙂
Especially since Vannier is an idiot. I just looked over the legal angle he took. Even a person who isn’t a lawyer but knows IP law as a business person would have laughed him out of the room. Much as the US gov officials did when denying his motion which had ZERO basis in statute or case law.
Can you imagine how stupid he looked asserting that Scientology had become a generic term in the wog world much like Bayer’s former TM’ed product, aspirin?
Please explain the details.
I just did M2C. Those are the main details. He made the defense that the TM was now generic in the population without any real evidence (as there isn’t any of course) and the Fed Gov rejected it REALLY fast.
Actually, that was RTC’s job.
Why they don’t sue? They are afraid of losing.
Were they afraid of losing in 1990? Or only now that their PR is in the toilet?
And do you know they are afraid based on your personal observation as the head of OSA, or are you making an educated guess?
Should have been afraid of losing, but were not. Learned lessons from that and subsequently trying again over materials posted on the internet. Both efforts resulted in scientology paying out millions…
The CoS is also afraid -VERY afraid – of having anyone take the witness stand or even getting deposed. Debbie Cook’s brief time under oath has put the fear of God into them.
I asked a well-connected attorney friend of mine about this. His response:
Many independent practitioners have reported receiving cease and desist letters from church lawyers. And there
have been lawsuits by the church. Suit against the Dror Center, of Tel Aviv, for example, was recently in the news.
Well whoever that unnamed connected attorney friend is needs to go back to law school.
The “Dror Center” lawsuit was filed by Dani Lemberger to recover money from Scientology.
Otherwise no lawsuits since Mayo just like I said. I know Les and Anita got some threat letters sbout Trademarks about 8 years ago. Nothing came if that they continued to operate.
Are you trying to scare people away from practicing Scientology outside the church? U try to ENCOURAGE that. Why are you taking an opposite stance?
I think it’s missing the point about the church going after independent orgs just because the church doesn’t sue them – when it attempts to accomplish the purpose by other means. The whole reason Dani Lemberger sued the church was that the church had waged a campaign to shut down Dror. Here’s a quote of Dani’s from Ortega’s blog:
“Somebody leaked to me, from the city of Haifa, that the church was running a campaign at the planning and supervision department to try to get me shut down. Over some building permits,” he says. “They were using phony names to write anonymous complaint letters about me. And they were using data from my pc folders at Flag.” http://tonyortega.org/2014/11/03/dani-lemberger-who-led-a-breakaway-israel-mission-sues-scientology-for-libel-and-fraud/
And it’s telling that Dani effectively won that case with a settlement.
Dani sued to get his money back.
Why are you trying to make a “dangerous environment” for scientology practitioners? I thought you and M2C are PROPONENTS of the tech?
Yet you are trying to tell people that it is really dangerous and tough to deliver scientology outside the church.
I am saying it is not and they will never go after anyone.
You guys come up with more generalities and bad news to make it appear it’s unsafe.
This particular thread has me pretty much convinced that the both of you are trolls.
Amazing you want to argue with me about how scary it is to deliver scientology outside the church.
Wow.
“Amazing you want to argue with me about how scary it is to deliver scientology outside the church.”
No, I’m saying that the church may not be using lawsuits anymore to stop independents, but their attempts to do so are ineffective.
Right…
Also, the South African proprietor of the Back In Comm blog got legal letters, over use of some symbols that they had to remove from their website, before the blog went inactive for whatever reason.
There is definitely some threatening going on, but no legal action, and it doesn’t seem like enough “suppression” to really explain the widespread inability of the independents to achieve much – though I get the impression that the implication is that’s the excuse.
Sarge Gerbode is an interesting example of someone who indeed managed to move on with his own line of work while avoiding legal conflict with Scientology – though I get the impression he has moved further and further away from anything recognizable to Dianetics and Scientology practitioners, as he’s tried to develop techniques that are effective and scientifically verifiable. And he has gotten several pieces of proper research done validating his work, during the period of time that the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation (which still exists corporately) and the independents have done no actual research or science, including not challenging the early studies (Fisher, 1953; and Fox, et al, 1959, with the cooperation of the HRDF) that still stand as having disproven the effectiveness and theoretical basis of Dianetics and Scientology.
I didn’t mean to discourage the practice of Scientology outside the church. But I believe fear of the church has inhibited many auditors from trying to build orgs instead of remaining as sole practitioners — at least until recent years when the PR of the word Scientology became prohibitively bad.
As I’ve said before, I believe we need a new name, new terminology, and rewritten materials, with the bad filtered out so that only the good goes forward.
Disagreement with this blog’s party line is not trolling. Trolling includes the intent to cause upset. Marildi and I don’t troll, although I do admit to getting frustrated on occasion with what seems to be the blog’s bias and it’s allowed trolling by Wynski and a few other regulars.
Offering false information about how the church files lawsuits and intimidates people is how you “didn’t mean to discourage the practice of scientology outside the church”??
Seems pretty obvious to me. You and Marildi both tried to challenge me on this when I said it was NOT dangerous.
And now you claim that you were “disagreeing” with the “party line” that nobody is sued by scientology to prevent them from auditing or creating an “org”?
That IS this blog’s “party line” on this subject. You are free to disagree. WHY you would disagree is another question.
You and Marildi are really showing your colors…
Mike: “And now you claim that you were ‘disagreeing’ with the ‘party line’ that nobody is sued by scientology to prevent them from auditing or creating an ‘org’?”
But do independents know this? Or are they convinced, like Merrell Vannier, that it’s dangerous still?
Going to keep giving you rope by having this back and forth continue.
Are you asking on behalf of “independents”? You are worried on their behalf?
Merrell Vannier is not an “independent” who is trying to audit. I don’t know of anyone who wants to audit that fears legal repercussions.
You have to find SOMETHING to try and create fear of “independent auditing” — but so far, you are striking out.
Fascinated to see where you go from here. You and M2C have just about hung yourselves.
Mike: “You have to find SOMETHING to try and create fear of ‘independent auditing’ — but so far, you are striking out.”
That wasn’t my intent at all. But this exchange has become too confusing to try sorting it out. Sorry for my part in that. Obviously I haven’t been clear and/or haven’t understood other comments.
I dont think the exchange is confusing at all.
I have been saying from the outset anyone who audits in the field has nothing to fear from scientology.
You and M2C have been doing your best to challenge what I said, cast doubt upon it, question how it might not be true and come up with phony information to support the lie that scientology has sued people auditing in the field outside of the church.
There is nothing confusing about this exchange, It could not be clearer.
It has followed a predictable course and when you realize you have really put your foot in it, you now claim “oh, it’s too confusing to try sorting it out.”
Bet you there isn’t ANYONE who has been reading this thread who is confused at all.
“I have been saying from the outset anyone who audits in the field has nothing to fear from scientology.”
And I was saying that they may not have to fear a lawsuit but there might be attempts to shut them down, as what happened to Dror. Then I added that they church is ineffective anyway – the point being that perhaps Independents are afraid of nothing, yet they are stopped.
In the Reza Aslan CNN special on Scientology, I recall that at least one of the Independents he interviewed stated that there may well be repercussions from the church for him taking part.
Anyway, My 2 Cents has different considerations from mine, not necessarily conflicting but I think you’re doing an A=A and aren’t differentiating who said what.
Still trying to prove that there is something to worry about. Amazing.
Now it is something you recall was said on the Reza Aslan show — a show that by it’s very existence proved there is nothing to worry about.
I really wonder how long this will go on for? As long as I keep answering, you will keep responding with something else that should discourage people from auditing outside the church.
I am finding this a fascinating experiment.
“Still trying to prove that there is something to worry about.”
You’re misconstruing what I said regarding independents being worried – NEEDLESSLY worried, was implied where I wrote that the church is ineffective. And I don’t mean all independents – just some. But those too can be informed otherwise – as by reading this thread. That would be my intention.
Keep typing.
Anyone can actually read this back and forth and draw their own conclusions about what has been said. You cannot now unring this bell and try to backpeddle and explain that you really meant that field auditors are “needlessly” worried. But even AFTER that you were talking about Reza Aslan’s show and how Dror had been threatened (AGAIN bringing this up even though I have shot this down about 4 times now – M2C even claimed from an “unnamed” lawyer friend they had been sued by scientology).
Now, go ahead and explain how I am unfairly targeting you because you are “pro-tech.” It’s the exact opposite. I am literally trying to ENCOURAGE people to audit outside the church and you and M2C want to pick a fight with me to prove how wrong I am for holding this view.
So telling.
May I ask exactly who decides what is good and what is bad?
Troll school 101:
1) Research bloggers reality and match it
2) tell bloggers how good they are when they talk
positive about Scientology and how they 100% agree.
3) throw in a shallow critique about Hubbard from time to time (he was just human etc.) to show how you are part of this group of critics but never reveal any personal experiences.
(Let’s see if they start now talking about some type of past after me bringing this up)
4) avoid direct questions that may reveal one’s trollhood
5) keep turning the argument back on those who deconstruct Hubbard and the ‘tech.’ And above all invalidate and dead agent questions and questioners.
6) love bomb bloggers by saying over inflated praises when bloggers are expressing the good side of Scientology and Ron. Tell them they are the BEST or most AUTHENTIC.
And don’t forget to include in the praise,” you are not like the other childish, negative people who are against the good in Scientology. Make sure there is a covert dig towards the SP critics in a very subtle way.
7) make sure there are plenty of new names coming in to support the trolls so as to create the illusion that others agree with them.
So many here have shared their pain, told their horror stories and convey real authentic emotions.
A true LRH believing troll will just say generic criticisms about Ron to create the illusion of fitting in.
Their criticism is shallow, accompanied by a very telling absence of emotion. And absence of a real story.
There trolls. Let’s see if you increase any of these troll tips I give for free:
1) give us a little HE&R about your abuses in the church to make it real.
2) Tell us about your past. Trolls hate communicating about the real past because we can verify claims. Mention people who you’ve known so we can verify you.
( I won’t hold my breath on #2)
If your trollhood is backed by the OSA, then maybe you should get someone to help you create a past and verifiable life.
The goal of the troll: disruption and lack of harmony between bloggers.
Hubbard created a monster. I feel sorry for trolls. Trolls are the result of ‘standard tech.’
Mike, you’ve seriously mischaracterized my position in this thread. I was responding to the idea you put forth, that the reason there are no Indie orgs is that there is no demand for Scientology. I agree with you that there is no demand today, due to the terrible PR. But I think there was demand enough prior to about 2005. Before that I think fear of Church legal was an inhibiting factor to the building of orgs as opposed to sole practitioner auditors. That doesn’t mean I think there should have been fear then or now. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
Havent put any words in your mouth. All your words and all my words are on the page in black and white. Anyone can read them and reach their conclusion as to what happened.
Now you come up with a 2005 watershed. What do you base this on? ANd you think that prior to 2005 for some reason scientology was filing lawsuits or making threats on people auditing? But now the problem is there is no demand?
You are the one that offered up the “unnamed” lawyer who you quoted to “prove” that the legal threats were still ongoing and that scientology had sued Dror Center. Or have I put those words into your mouth?
You and Marildi are now squirming because you have been called out on your efforts to create fear in the minds of those who might consider auditing outside of the church. I am trying to promote the opposite.
Mike, it’s patently false that you have been encouraging auditing outside the church. Your statement that no one has been sued for doing it is a drop in the bucket compared to your years of running a blog that goes way beyond mere exposing church abuses, to thoroughly invalidating the basic subject, without ever on your own origination addressing the issue of how to fix it.
The articles you run, whether by yourself or others NEVER focus on the good in Scientology. Your blog is a torrent of destructive intent that is certainly appropriate for the church but not for the subject as a whole after filtering out the parts that obviously led to the abuses. If it weren’t for Marildi and myself there never would have been any discussion of the good and what could be done with it. And every one of your requests for ending a back-and-forth has had as its real purpose the ending of discussion of the good.
On this blog you have never promoted getting auditing outside the church.
In attacking Marildi and myself on this thread you have used classic black PR techniques you studied, practiced, and mastered as an enabler of Miscavige for so many years: (1) Redirect the discussion off of the ideas you don’t like, to the people stating them. (2) Restate their words and actions to make them seem much worse that they are. (3) Self-righteously attack the worsened image you’ve just created. (4) Get a bunch of like-minded comrades to pile on.
Regarding church lawsuits against auditors and academies outside the church, I really don’t know what the truth is, and I don’t have the time to research it for myself.
These are my observations too. But I have to give credit to Mike for posting a comment like this one, when he could have just deleted it. I always knew Mike was basically good. 🙂 (Sincerely.)
http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/01/moral-outrage-is-self-serving
My 2 Cents. Mike has REPEATEDLY encouraged both you and Marildi to start a site/blog extolling the virtues of the LRH Tech you two (supposedly) have found to be so invaluable to mankind. So far you have both refused.
Mike has ALWAYS and consistently encouraged people who find value in the tech to CONTINUE receiving and delivering it after they have left the church and found his blog. Up until the blogs went defunct, Mike featured those same blogs, that advertised Indie auditing.
YOU ARE A LIAR!
Wynski: “Mike has ALWAYS and consistently encouraged people who find value in the tech to CONTINUE receiving and delivering it after they have left the church and found his blog. ”
When did he last do that, other than in this thread where was taking the position that M2C and I were trying to discourage it by twisting our words – in spite of the fact that we have posted scores of comments that show our whole interest is to see auditing continue outside the church.
Even on this thread, when Spike wrote “You seem extremely negative on the tech, and the theme of the blog is very canted in that direction. I would appreciate your viewpoint” – he did not deny that this was the blog’s theme. The most he would say was “I do not believe everything about scientology is bad” – and that vague generality is about as positive as he gets.
If you were in my place, Wynski, and I had written the above you would be saying it’s a LIE and that I am a LIAR. You know very well that Mike has “encouraged” no such thing for the last several years.
So, what is your purpose for being here? Holding the fort to protect the truth? For who? Who do you think you are reaching with your comments? Do you know how few people read the comments on a blog?
Mike: “Who do you think you are reaching with your comments?”
(1) The same people who are being reached by the commenters who make false claims about the basic subject of Scientology, and (2) those who have had bad experiences, many of which are clearly attributable to misapplication of the basic subject. I don’t say all, because I don’t know that – and I don’t doubt that the church has done horrific things to people, either by following policy or by gross missapplication of the tech.
Besides that, Mike, you are changing the subject. When was the last time prior to this thread that you “encouraged” people to use the tech outside of the church?
Please will you and M2C start your own blog and your own auditing practice? I will happily refer anyone who inquires about wanting to get auditing outside the church to you. There you go, a new recommendation today.
Have you changed your mind about welcoming all points of view on your blog?
You are here arent you? Posing an endless stream of questions.
Why don’t you start your own blog?
Tactics
“Love bombing is an attempt to influence a person by demonstrations of attention and affection.”
I give credit where credit is due. Perhaps you’re thinking at your own negative level.
Actually, Brian, I was so impressed by Mike not deleting My 2 Cents’ post that I missed giving credit to My 2 Cents as well. He had the insight to see what happened and the guts to post it.
I notice that you rarely have the guts to challenge M2C. Instead, you remain quiet or soon slip away.
Oh my goodness! You two just can’t seem to help yourselves. The insults followed by complaints when someone answers back. If you feel you’re unjustly treated here or the forum isn’t to your liking, say so outright instead of pretending you’re trying to see someone else’s side of this very heart-rending, complicated subject. Believe all you like in any part or all of lrh’s teachings. We don’t care…..but stop degrading those of us who don’t agree. Stay or go., but exercise self control when you’re a guest in someone else’s house.
Tactic
good cop, bad cop
phrase of cop
1.
informal
used to refer to a police interrogation technique in which one officer feigns a sympathetic or protective attitude while another adopts an aggressive approach.
My 2 Cents, I haven’t looked in a LONG time. So, I timed myself. It took 25 SECONDS for me to pull up this list of people advertising: http://www.freeandable.com/business-listings/by-category/65-auditors.html
There are other websites advertising other US based indie orgs and auditors.
Engage at LEAST one of your two remaining brain cells before posting on here.
The Free and Able website you provided a link to is woefully out of date. But it’s true that there are quite a few field auditors practicing without being sued by the church. But you said anyone could start an ORG. Other than the Dror Center and Hellen Chen what Indie ORG has ever been started since the 80’s?
I heard that there was a deal between OSA and the major Indie field auditors that allowed them to practice unharrassed as long as they didn’t create and grow orgs to challenge the church.
But the overriding factor at this point is that the word Scientology is a broken brand. Anyone starting an Indie org would have to call it something else, have substitute terminology, and use rewritten materials — in other words be a new subject in a new unit of time.
CLearly, the problem is that there is little demand for scientology. For sure if there was money that could be made, there would be people who would do so (like the Missions you cited back in the 70’s).
As for any “deal” being made between RTC (not OSA) and the “major indie field auditors” I can assure you there is none. There is no NEED.
Hear, hear!
There is little demand for what Scientology BECAME, not necessarily for what it WAS before it was taken over by cultists. But very few people can tell the difference. They don’t believe that the bad could be removed from the subject leaving only the good. So we need a new subject with a new name.
So we need a new subject with a new name.
This may be true, but the problem is that apparently (yourself included) nobody seems to think it is worth doing. Otherwise it would be done or actively worked on. I assume you are not doing anything to accomplish this end other than proclaiming it should be done? Or am I mistaken?
Taken over by cultists? Ron was the cultist’s pipe piper.
What brought down Scientology?
The truth about Hubbard
The truth about OT 3
The truth about Paulette Cooper
The truth about Ron being a Malignant Narcissist
What brought down Scientology is the truth.
And what revealed that truth to all of us to see:
THE INTERNET
As long as Scientologists push the BT and other doctrines, the world will see Scientology as dangerous mind fuckery.
M2C – Scientology is a broken brand, yes. Even 40 years ago the PR was not great (at least here). Remove the things that really bug people, and you are left with something worthwhile. At some point I hope that some energetic individuals would start something up again. How to do that without calling it what it is boggles the mind. But … what happened to the Squirrel Busters? Did they just go away?
My Two Cents. There are two to three others I’ve seen in the past 10 years that have both academies & HGCs. One outside of Atlanta. NONE BEING SUED.
The POINT, which has now been PROVEN 100% since I started this thread is that given the chance to deliver without the evil “church” controlling, there is basically ZERO demand for Hubbard’s “tech”. Z-E-R-O
There is NOT demand for what WAS delivered back in the day. Otherwise the tiny amount of new people receiving it in the Indie field would grow and grow through word of mouth.
Your lame excuses have been FALSIFIED
Wynski, you seem to delight in giving people extreme wrong indications that they are stupid, dishonest, and evil. That has no place in civilized discussion of disagreements. Grow up.
Stop. The more you say the more unreasonable you sound. Mike’s asked completely logical questions, yet you are defensive and even mildly insulting. I know Mike doesn’t need anyone to defend him, but you keep coming back with nonsense. Everything you’ve claimed about auditing can be found in well given intensive psychotherapy. I’ve asked this question in the past. Can you find literally hundreds of thousands if not millions who’ve benefited from auditing? Because there are certainly that many and very possibly more who’ve made “case gains” from one on one talk therapy. I’m sure you’ll have something left-handed to say, so let’s get it over with.
But M2C, if you just tune out the inflammatory rhetoric and perceived “make wrong” tone, then the logical point that Wynski makes is still a valid one.
If the pre-Miscavige tech was super effective, and Indie $cientologists use it, rather than DM’s squirreled version, then shouldn’t these little outposts of “pure” form $cn at least be doing better than corporate cherch is in bringing in new folks, training auditors, getting folks up the bridge and expanding the unsquirreled version of $cn?
M2C what did I lay out that was stupid, evil or dishonest?
As far as “wrong indications” I don’t warp or deny fact to keep from offending people who are clearly illogical.
I’d like to add a couple of observations to the ongoing discussion, without intruding on the deep thread where Mike seems to be trying to pin some things down.
Rebranding of independent Scientology has been tried, including quite a few instances in the past based on varying uses of the term “ability;” I was getting constant promo from some of them well into the 1990s. And I remember when names like “clearing technology” were in vogue not all that long ago. Sarge Gerbode still has Applied Metaphysics and TIR. Lack of solid new branding might be a bit of a barrier, but I don’t it’s a fundamental obstacle.
The evidence of decline in Scientology’s membership suggests that there have been a lot of defectors in the last decade, and in particular after Debbie Cook’s letter. And indeed, after that letter there seemed to be a bit of a spike in independent activity – which then died out. That suggests that as has been observed by many, independent Scientology is more a stage on the way out of the CofS for some not ready to quit altogether, though a small number keep up some practice.
I think elron signed his name to the bottom of everything, never an attribution, for copyright protection which worked in the old days to stifle competition. The law rightfully protects “intellectual property”, but now it’s a lost cause as Mike mentions.
Werner Ehrhart who started Ehrhart Seminar Training, EST, (part of which came from scn) sold his intellectual property rights which I think later turned into The Forum. Ehrhart also made big bucks selling “Relationship” seminars. It was later revealed that when his wife disagreed with him he’d have her locked in a room under guard until she capitulated.
Werner Erhard. With a “d” not Erhart. *Just your friendly Spelling police dropping by….
Of course Werner Erhard wasn’t even really his name, he changed it from Jack Rosenberg. True story! Also, Werner Erhard claims he was fair gamed by Scientology and that’s what caused his collapse… another true story, here’s a link to where he gave an interview to NY Times in 2015 and made that claim: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/fashion/the-return-of-werner-erhard-father-of-self-help.html?_r=0
T.J. – Interesting. I didn’t know he was still in bidness as of 2015. You can’t keep a good man down – lol
Just for fun here’s an excerpt from Ken Wilber, another New Age guru who has a lot of followers. Like most of them, some of it makes sense, some of it doesn’t.
from wiki: “Are the mystics and sages insane? . . . The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All . . . And tell me, is that story sung by mystics and sages the world over any crazier than the scientific materialism story . . . Listen very carefully, just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?”
Thanks for posting that article about ErharD, T.J. I enjoyed it. 🙂
You’re quite welcome! 🙂 I am glad you were interested enough to read the article, it always feels good when someone finds some value in a post I’ve made, so, thank you! Sorry about the spelling correction, it’s really a failing of mine, to be a self-appointed member of the spelling or grammar police especially since I’m not without my share of both at times.
T.J. – I was joking with the capital D. As usual on the internet it’s best to indicate it’s a joke or when being facetious. Spell check away! (joke)
An interesting part of the article is that some or even much of his philosophy and methodology has gained mainstream acceptance. That would seem to be an expectation or hope for some people posting here for some aspects of scn.
Erhard sticks with a pragmatic approach although there is plenty of nondualism in his philosophy such as ” . . . this thing you call ‘I’ or ‘me'” The article was well worth reading and I just reread it.
In scio-speak my off the cuff comment was dead agenting Erhard when in fact many people find his continuing intellectual ponderings useful. I stand corrected.
Now that they are an Ideal mOrg and not just an ordinary morgue, they know the only reason that they are as empty as the local KKK is because DM hasn’t started his new TV channel. Once Dave’s brilliant shows hits the airwaves the place will be packed and those shades will come down! …Yeah, that’s it!
LMAO. Heard Tony Ortega (I’m almost positive it was Tony) say he’d love to see an all Scientology, all the time channel. Said it would be as good or better than Comedy Central.
Yes, the reason the Scientology orgs are not doing well is ALWAYS due to the fact that they do not yet have That Vital Thing That Will Open The Door To Planetary Clearing For Real…whatever that happens to be at any particular time.
So, they strive and strive and fund raise and bend themselves into knots and possibly even obtain whatever this Vital Thing is, and they they still don’t do well.
But by that time, Miscavige has rolled out another Vital Thing they yet MUST have in order for Planetary Clearing To Become A Realty…and so it goes.
And the years roll by…and they still believe that The Next New Thing, whatever it is, is their WHY and their SOLUTION…and Miscavige obliges and keeps the solutions rolling out…
Blows my mind. Every time. I try not to think about it.
scientology: the world’s shittiest Instagram filter.
Overdone, cheesy, and hiding tons of misery.
Ha! A filter that obscures everything in the photo and replaces it with cameras pointing back at you.
Isn’t one if the end phenomenas of OT III “ability to be invisible to suppressive persons”? So perhaps there were thousands of people there but they were utilizing their ability to not be seen by you or appear in your photos.
Geez the “reality” pics really show the vast difference between “dream” & reality.,.teality is dark & creepy.
I wonder if papering up the windows is a course now?
That long white hallway looks like an end of life experience as in “go toward the light, go toward the light”…….a lllloooonnnngggg hallway to nowhere, kind of like that bridge they try to sell.
Oh yes, right along with how to wash windows and water plants. Poor oldfart – people listened and he just kept pumping it out.
Maybe, but the real paper mache levels start after you’ve obtained being Cleared of viewing any form of electronic or newspaper media, but even then they let you use clear non inked paper only, because by all your hard avoidance of the obvious you’ve earned the Clear Paper status. As a reward to get to sit in an empty building and watch others cover the windows.
It’s “alternative facts”.
A few days ago I drove by the building here in Ventura that will be the next morgue (from the Santa Barbara org) and snapped a few pics. It took about 3 minutes for a white van to come out, follow me to the dead end and turn around and followed me back out onto the main road.
Can’t wait for the ribbon yanking for this disaster.
I was watching this show about Hitler having to do with his Messianic complex and toward the end, when it was apparent Germany had lost, Hitler blamed the German people. When I see all these empty orgs continue to open, I can hear david miscavige scream about how he did HIS job. He created so many Ideal Orgs and the out ethics, PTS scientologists couldn’t do their jobs and bring in new people. It was also interesting to me the parallels between these two men and there attention on erecting grandiose buildings. Maybe it was a stretch on my part but that’s what I saw.
With any luck they’ll share the same ending. History is waiting…
Don’t hold your breath for a ribbon yanking.
If Santa Barbara follows the same pattern as other orgs like Boston (which also sold off a downtown building that had become valuable) and Orlando, fundraising to actually renovate the newer monstrosity could take years, maybe even longer than a decade – and might not even happen before Scientology finally hits some point of meltdown.
As long as it APPEARS CO$ is “still growing” in the mind of DM, with all these building being bought/renovated or sold for “bigger buildings” it will seem that the congregation is growing. After all, what person in his “right mind” would continue to spend money buying buildings when the congregation IS not growing.
From the outside, it has to look good, that indeed their are millions of members in order for them to remain having their tax exemption …..ummm….well goodness gracious, just WHAT government agency is going to go visit all these “churches” to SEE how many people are actually in attendance…in my opinion….NO ONE.
“After all, what person in his ‘right mind’ would continue to spend money buying buildings when the congregation IS not growing”.
What person, indeed?
Well, Miscavige is frequently NOT spending the cult’s money on most of the buildings. He is amassing money for the cult in fact. Nonetheless, in some instances he is spending money on this.
And, Mike has stated that his tax attorneys frequently urge Miscavige to spend more.
But no matter, the logical argument you have stated is precisely what is protecting the scam, the cult’s amazing, incredible ongoing con.
The lie is SO big it just has to be true! Because NO ONE would do this if it weren’t true…!
Oh, yeah?
That whole ribbon yanking, balloons rising, and Miscavige verbal vomiting has really grown tired, hasn’t it?
And one week later, nobody is there, one lone staff member sits at the front desk occasionally. Yup, the crowds are sure clamoring for the wisdom of scientology…
What a sad and lonely death for LRH’s once grand vision.
The San Diego Org is dead and their new street front is the shuttered glass pane obscuring the dead corpse. Back in the 70’s the Scientology organization had occupied a charming house near Balboa park and the course rooms were packed with people. It was a buzzing scene. The day they declared Gary Hill for not disconnecting from his own son was the lowest of the low. They declared my 83 year old mom (Comm Ev was held TWICE…CMO wanted to make sure they had every opportunity to crush her and destroy our family) And their own DSA knew it was against policy and she apologized for the debacle. I’ve had my share of conversations with good people in that organization who had no choice but to harm others in the name of Scientology. And they were honestly not happy about it. Every decent person I knew in that org LEFT. I extend the single finger salute to every single San Diego staff member who ever took part in crushing and attacking another persons “dynamics” in the name of Scientology. In the name of Scientology they have committed immoral and evil acts that have led to the disrepute of Scientology in San Diego. Those people are so “out of valence” it’s obscene. My advice to them: FIND OUT WHO L RON HUBBARD REALLY WAS.
Now that is a formula that could really improve a staff members survival. I love it.
+1! Outstanding post, Doug! Evil is as evil does. And Scientology throws around a lot of evil.
Well said Doug. You know, that formula worked for me. He came up with some interesting views on things I will admit but he just couldn’t help being Hubbard. Once you work him out, a hell lot of lot of things fall into place. It gives sanity a good chance of applying itself using that formula.
Thank you all for your comments. I agree. Finding out about the real Ron Hubbard and finally understanding him is emancipating. I use that word because once you know him, you are free from his lies and you can see why it all turned out the way it did. I’m just glad I had some good years with my mother before she died. Love won.
Declaring an 83 year old mom… yeah, that is a “church” I really want to be a part of.
Tax exemption is gone soon, you mother f***ers.
” FIND OUT WHO L RON HUBBARD WAS”
The diagnosis is in. He was a Malignant Narcissist. Looking up the definition reveals, to me, that Ron’s obsession with SPs was Ron projecting himself unto an identity.
L RON HUBBARD WAS THE SP HE WARNED US ABOUT.
When Hubbard allowed staff to go on a personal soul destroying OWs session for wanting to blow, knowing full well that it was ARCXS that cause blowing; that is a suppressive act. He was the SP he warned us about. The psyches knew Hubbard. That’s why he hated them. He hated being seen. Liars do.
Yes, how cruel to send us down a blind alley, but I suppose I needed the lesson Brian. I guess I could say I learned from the best now. I did not need to lose my children however! None of us deserved that.
I agree Cece, all lessons are good. It I am so sorry about your children. May they wake up!!!
And to think that we have people still defending Hubbard after such cruelty is done in his name.
The “tech”. Such a duplicitous term. In one instance it’s remembering moments of pain and confusion and resolving.
But to the target of Ron’s antisocial brutality the “tech” is life destroying.
The “tech”…………….. what mind fuckery!
“L RON HUBBARD WAS THE SP HE WARNED US ABOUT. ”
So true! I’d just add that the Devious Munchkin is the SP that Elron taught $cilons how to identify, based on some very detailed and explicit criteria which lil davey has fully met and even exceeded.
Yes Brian, Hubbard knowingly distorted that datum about the cause for departures. He had decades to correct it. His overt of omission and it’s disastrous consequences should be forever stained upon his legacy.
Lol Doug!
I guess James T Kirk got it right when he said, “space, the final frontier…” Scientology sure hasn’t got a clue what to do with it. Maybe if you cover it up no one will notice or like a nightmare scared kid, throwing the blanket over their head makes the whole mean, nasty world disappear.
It’s way beyond sad what those people in Scientology expect out of life everyday they wake up. I don’t care what anyone says, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world to be despised, and that is the one thing Scientologists excel at, the evidence of their empty buildings is truly overwhelming.
Come on Davy, do the world a favor, take a long walk off a short pier!
“Space is the final frontier.” Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Now that’s some funny shit!
Hi Mike: You and Leah made it clear on A&E the other evening why people like Dave Myers pump millions into CoS into these dead Ideal Orgs. “They are saving the planet.” CoS then lies about the orgs and abuses critics. It’s of course Ron’s policy. (BTW: Your candor on that episode about your own past tactics showed courage.) The images CoS pumps out about gleaming new orgs, uniformed staff holding clipboards in packed rooms, incredible feats of disaster assistance, the happy faces of Sea Org members are all very Orwellian. “Ignorance is Strength…Strength is Ignorance.” It’s criminal that so many decent and intelligent people are sucked into this. I find it amusing to watch clips of Ideal Org grand openings…the hoopla, the throngs, the balloons, the music (they pulled out all the stops when opening Inglewood.) Then a couple of weeks later…black out. Tel Aviv is empty. Johannesburg is empty. Inglewood is empty. St. Paul is empty. Tokyo is empty. Rome is empty. Berlin is empty. Nashville is empty. It’s a good sign…the public has caught on.
It shows that DM is a success. These areas have been “cleared”. That is why there is no one there. They have been cleared of SPs ( and since everyone not a DM bot is an SP ) and money. Since money motivation is bad and out-ethics, removing all money from the scene is the same as getting in ethics; which is the purpose of the SO. (DM wise).
If everyone in the area has no money and is starving no-one will be able to expose what he is doing. This is an important part of KSW which is a major duty of RTC to enforce.
By eliminating all Scn public DM is simply ” Closing the door on incorrect application.” which is one of the main products of his post.
If LRH had been more like DM, DM would not have been forced to kill him for the greater good. We should salute DM for having the courage to do what would not have been a popular move
(Of course, this entire comment is a bad joke.)
Dead Men, hilarious!
You’re on to something.
Sometimes I think David Miscavige might be a secret hero, playing the extremely long game in bringing down the organization of scientology.
I mean, really, look at his record… nobody else could have harmed scientology as masterfully as Miscavige. He is the perfect SP. There is nothing he touches that does not turn to shit, like a reverse King Midas.
So I applaud the little COB. Keep doing what you are doing Dave, you are an inspiration!
Due to his need for ultimate, unchallenged power, D.M. made some big mis-steps that contributed to the continuing demise of Scientology. The most blatant and harmful was removing well-liked and respected management people (like Debbie Cook, Heber Jentzsch, Mile Rinder) and creating a prison for his top executives, with the intent to ‘neutralize’ them to remove potential rivals for power – he did accomplish his goal, but without the backing of these top execs, the ‘true believers’ and most faithful, his reach became weaker, and some of those who escaped the hole, quit or were declared went on to become the most vocal critics, so he effectively turned loyal supporters into enemies – this was a serious mistake on his part. D.M. is a ruthless dictator.
Dead Men…. behind every jest is a truth.
Motz,
I agree with everything you’ve said and its all true, and Scientology does lie outrageously to their members, does manipulate them selfishly and cruelly.
But keep in mind that we here on this blog and countless other exScientologists were ALSO lied to, manipulated and conned.
And yet. we eventually used our simple powers of observation. We looked, we some simple common sense, questioned, didn’t get any sensible answers that tallied with our observations, and LEFT.
Many – not me, but so very many have paid and are STILL paying an ENORMOUS price for having had the integrity to see what they saw and NOT what they were told they should see.
Evidence disproving the lies was always there and its still there. It is only necessary to look.
This is something anyone can do.
There’s nothing we did that any current still in Scientology cult member can’t do.
We here are not THAT brilliant, perceptive or gifted. 🙂
We looked, and left. They can too.
Thank you, Mike, for continuing to point out that these places are dead.
Looks ideal to me. Maybe this is miscavage’s intent: Suck money from whales/followers, buy buildings, fix up buildings, open buildings with fanfare, quietly shut buildings, move onto next locale— suck money etc.
I think Miscavige’s intent is to suck money into what become international management assets that the can claim – but then to keep the buildings open in an attempt to convince both scientologists and the IRS that something really is going on, meanwhile hoping and postulating that something will happen that will finally drive “masses” of people into the orgs.
The dynamics are probably very similar to a straight-out financial Ponzi scheme, where even the promoters typically have a deluded gambler-like mentality and believe that some turn of luck is finally going to enable them to make good on their promises to all the people they have conned into believing in their scheme.
But why ruin families? I’ve found that mail to me in the SO was not given to me. I don’t know why/how that helped make money? I think LRH himself had the ‘held down 7’.
Cece, I think the reason that families in the SO were split up was because a marriage, the 2-D, is the first group that was ever formed, and you can’t have groups because there is strength in numbers. Divide and conquer was the operating basis. If you break up a 2D, you weaken that group. Now in present time, families are split up using the Disconnection bulletin as a club. Even though LRH cancelled the Disconnection bulletin, DM uses it to threaten any critics that if they do or say anything against him or the church, they will lose their family, their friends, their colleagues, their world, not to mention their “eternity.” For those of us on the blogs, the threat of losing your eternity is a toothless tiger, but to those believers who are still in, it is a HUGE deal and a huge and effective threat.
Those windows mush have some sort of blanking ability, or they’ve added something to the inside, because even when I went drove by late at night, several weeks ago, I could see everything on the first floor clearly. I’ll be in San Diego in about a week, so I’ll check it out to see if the blanking of the windows is permanent.
Typically with those coverings, during the day when it is bright outside they appear opaque, but at night when it is dark outside and there is lighting from inside, then it is possible to see inside at least partially and sometimes almost completely. Even one-way mirrors require that the viewing side be dark, or else those on the other side can through at least a bit.
The windows are covered with blinds
I recall the windows in the academy on OT7 part B had a shielding type of opaque effect automatically come on just before sunset so you couldn’t see in from the outside. Use to wait for it “come on,” like some kind of spotting game, such was the fun of being in a Scientology academy. Oh, such a waste of time and money!
I’m in Ybor City frequently where Scientology has their Tampa Org in one of the beautiful and historic Cigar factories from the 1800’s. No one is ever outside and it always looks deserted.
They did have a booth at last year’s Cigar Heritage Festival where I literally walked into a young woman standing in the middle of a walkway. Thinking she was a cigar rep for one of the brands, I said hello. Just then, I turned my head to the side and saw a row of e- meters and my next words were No,No,No,No and I walked away. As I left, I could hear her say no,no,no,no?
Such an odd event to see that group participating in. I doubt anyone stopped for a “test”.
Hum, paid a million dollars and his interest is taking photos of you? But, by the way, you are worth more than that.
And how come he was not busy interviewing, calling people, studying or even cleaning the area?
He spotted you right away, so he must have been idle…oops, that is a misdemeanor!
“He spotted you right away, so he must have been idle…oops, that is a misdemeanor! ” If being idle is a misdemeanor then why was Hubbard “loafing” so much as he liked to say he liked to do? Or being “idle” in his later years when he should have been correcting all those pesky grammatical errors in his earlier books? Scientology: the “do as we say, not as I do religion” and I use that term “religion” loosely.
The 1330 building looks like any local shopping mall’s Brookstone. Who did the layout? Industrial Light and Magic?
Wasn’t it the Missions job to get the new meat in the door? Oh, there aren’t many missions left. So what’s a high level mOrg to do when there is no one doing any of the high level ‘courses’ that mOrgs are supposed to deliver?
Why can’t $cientology find good body routers in Eastern Europe or South America? Could the ‘tech’ be at fault? Or is everyone wise to the lies?
lol
Kinda bright and empty, the way it should be
Kind of like jewelry that no one wants to buy or wear.
Kinda like being low man on the totem pole.
Yep, being crapped upon from above – the true Scientology way!
The lower you are on a totem pole, the higher your stature. We interpreted the pole incorrectly. Being low man is an honour.
California dreaming? I would wake up screaming from that nightmare. 🙂
More like Hotel California.
You can check out, but you can never leave…
One might also say it’s like a Roach Motel. Thetans go in-but they never come out!
Dude, you read my mind!!!
It’s what I do…
I think Jimi’s “Cross Town Traffic” compliments Hotel California. “Tire tracks all across your back, I can see you’ve had your fun… but darlin can’t you see my signals turn from green to red, I see a traffic jam straight up ahead!”
The Scientology bus has a set destination. There are no stops, if you wake up and want out – you have to jump off!
It’s a sinking ship and those die-hards refuse to just LOOK, which could be an LRH policy they actually apply (LOOK DON’T LISTEN) but refuse because they might actually SEE something “negative” and heaven forbid that would mean they have overts, which “logic” might be coming from some LRH tech (The Truth Rundown) that should actually NOT be applied because it is cockamaime.
It scares me that I can understand what you’re talking about. I hope there’s some beer in the refrigerator!
I’ve got case of Stella, but, I think you’re too far away.
Nice sentiment though – cheers!
Cheers, lad!
The Truth Rundown is rigged to make someone look like an idiot. You can leave until you say, “I was wrong.”
The one size fits all Scientology EP!
Every single one of them…
McCarran….I can’t imagine how horrible it must feel to know you’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars and given up everything…only to find out you’ve been duped. Trying to do good for others & save the planet, all for nothing because nothing became of all your effort, time, patience and money. It’s just beyond a sickening thought.
No different than someone who sent thousands of dollars to Jim and Tammy Bakker.
To me this looks like nothing more than “smoke and mirrors”… i.e. the staff member outside smoking…and the “one way covering” the window glass so no one can see inside.
Wouldn’t you THINK that if you wanted anyone to enter the premises, you would have a full on view to see what is inside the building. A street view that would LOOK inviting, a street side view that would DRAW people inside the building even out of curiosity?
Who in their right mind would enter a place where you can’t see anything from the outside in…..what if something happened to you, no one would ever know. This place looks more like a movie theater than anything else….it is NOT welcoming or inviting…
It looks like you’re going into a ‘fun house.’ The problem is, there ain’t no ‘fun’ in this house. Just financial ruin and broken families…
That’s the feeling I get from “Ideal Orgs” too! They don’t feel welcoming, inviting, comfortable… rather they give off a museum, old courthouse, empty library, private club vibe. Just not a warm, comfortable feel at all.
Didn’t L.Ron Hubbard say only that an org should be “clean and attractive enough to not repel the public”? LRH didn’t mandate that an org should be this huge, marble-floored, white couched, giant building… LRH said only that it “should have enough space to train and process without crowding”. He was probably thinking of the old days in early 70’s to 80’s when throngs of people crowded into small rooms in people’s homes to get training, it could be noisy and cramped, but that’s not the situation Scientology finds itself in these days, there is very small demand for services, and no need for these huge, under-used, ostentatious “Ideal Orgs”.
Just really, what a waste of the millions of donors funds, when they could be setting up real help programs to help the needy, unemployed, homeless, working poor, elderly, and victims of disasters. If they don’t have any interest in that, then how about at a minimum just establishing a much-needed fund for elderly Sea Org workers who have given years of their life with no pay, and now find themselves unable to work and with no savings to live on…hey what? If I had one chance to ask just one question of David Miscavige that’s what it would be.
How is it that a guy who gave a million dollars of his own money has “seniors” to report to? In the world where I live, people who pony up a million for a voluntary cause are usually senior to everyone else.
Because he’s spent all his money on fixing up the Idle Org, and now he’s not a whale anymore?
There’s another universe somewhere, almost exactly like this one, except that every claim made by the Church of Scientology is true. There are tens of millions of Scientologists, their front groups are completely legit and are having a huge impact on the world, etc., etc. I’m just glad I’m not living in that universe.
Dave, that’s been known for over 65 years now … it’s called the Bizarro World.
Thanks for the photos of the San Diego org, Mike. All of these $scion photos and vids are incredibly tacky (not to mention the music that accompanies them). Alway the light blue and gold colors, which just shout out tasteless nouveau riche – about what you’d expect from a highschool drop-out dictator who knows zilch about good taste. A few months ago my wife saw the vid of the “brand new,” shining, “state-of-the-art” media broadcasting center (or whatever it’s called) – and was stunned by the fact that there were absolutely no people in the vid. I wonder what the $cions, public, staff or S.O. think about all these empty buildings, and about why they have to keep the shaded down. Wail; scratch that; they likely make a strained effort NOT to think about the empty buildings (or don’t know about all of them).
Because it’s all a money-making scam. Just as it was from the beginning, created to financially enrich L.Ron Hubbard, and now the purpose being to make money for David Miscavige. There are various aspects to it, some programs, goals, social events, and there are people who believe in it more than others or feel certain aspects are “working”, but when compared to other, similar organizations with legitimate social welfare programs, Scientology fails miserably to measure up, because when you get right down to it, Scientology is a money-making scam that benefits only those very high up – the primary recipient being Miscavige.
They sure do make it look beautiful in the pictures! All Smoke and mirrors with these fools!
My “handle” is Idle Morgue.
I chose this name because over 10 years ago, when I was drinking the kool aid…”being a Scientologist – on course and working for free….The buildings were vacant of people. I did not know why – it baffled me but I was new and allowing Hubbard to convince me that “trust” is at the top of the tone scale.
I later found out TRUST is very low toned and not desireable. One gets DUPED!!
I was typically the only one in the course room the entire time I was in…with the exception of a few staff members…. and one of the few people getting auditing for many years….
I moved around a lot (a sad side effect of Scientology) and got “services” at several Class 5 Orgs.
THEY ALL WERE EMPTY!! ALL OF THEM!
I went to AOLA, ASHO AND FLAG….and they were also void of people….
They are all still vacant…except they have MORE SPACE to create a “smoke and mirrors” for the duped followers who go broke to help Slappy Miscavige increase his real estate holdings and help Slappy get rich buying real estate using Other People’s Money.
That is why I love to call myself “Idle Morgue” – Because Scientology has created big, empty morgues where souls are raped, spirits are crushed and lives ruined. Scientology KILLS! Don’t ever underestimate that.
Thanks for sharing, Idle! And if your experience was 10 years ago, imagine what it’s like now! No wonder they paper up their windows! I’d be embarrassed too!
But, all in all, Idle, you’ve brought us great news!
I second what OSD said. Thanks for posting Idle Morgue – it’s very helpful to hear personal stories from people who have been in and had real-life experiences in Scientology. There’s nothing like hearing it straight from those who have experienced it first-hand.
It’s a brilliant bit of inspired and witty J&Ding, that’s for sure!
The only people that these huge empty buildings are “ideal” for are SPs like us…the emptier the better 😉
In fact, I won’t be fully satisfied until they’re all ideal in that sense of the word’s meaning.
To use a little $cilon jargon here, when I contemplate my ideal scene with regard to $cn it also involves planetary clearing….of the cult’s presence here on earth, that is!
I was in San Diego in April. Same thing, I was downtown in Gaslamp district. It was very busy and people everywhere. On this particular Saturday evening, the curtains were not drawn at the Scientology building. Lights were on and you could see through the entire first floor. Not a soul in sight. It looked as though someone forgot to turn the lights up and lock up before they left for the day.
As you mentioned in the “Aftermath”program that aired on Memorial Day, Scientogist believe they can convince people they are an upstanding religion by showing off the real estate. Like that is going to impress someone. Very sad. I am truly sorry some sad sap mortgaged his home and depleted his assets for this so called “religion”. Keep up the good work in exposing this cult and stay the course!
But…but, Teresa…he probably got a huge trophy! That’s worth giving your life savings away…isn’t it?
Dave,
House of Cards Update:
Is your arm wrestling match with Judge Whittemore going to be the Black Swan Event that lands you in the slammer? Wally Pope walking the plank only means that you are next.
Of course the chances are very good that the San Diego Org IS in fact an off-policy, out-ethics shithole full of PTS scumbags that …. (just like every other “ideal” morgue) …
Too bad that there is all that wasted space. Not too far away, you will find a Sea (not too Org’d) of tents and shopping carts along city sidewalks, and more homeless in Balboa Park. The building would make a good homeless shelter. But the homeless people don’t have any money to find a place to sleep, let alone have their ohmic body resistance checked with an e meter. I imagine their e meter readings would spike, not because of emotion, but because their skin is full of salty sweat. A good shower will solve LRH’s Ohm’s Law mystery.
I like the way you think, Gary. You’re a good soul. Imagine all the the Idle Morgues closing down and becoming homeless shelters. Now that would make a difference.
You are right, OSD! And, I might add, a difference for the better!
Am I the only homeless person drooling over your post? I saw them N of Hollywood on Vermont. I’m not that obvious.
I like the “OT Hallway” which obviously is for L Rundown Completions to practice floating out of their bodies in that empty hallway. Not.
This is Hubbard “mystery sandwich” a vacuum sandwich, put the empty orgs there, and “thetans” will come wishing to occupy the little clean empty hallways.
Chuck,
Those guys floating in the hallways are not “Ls” completions, they are dead SO members. But then LRH defined a SO member the same as an OT. So I understand that it is hard to tell the difference.
HI Bill, By the way, have you read and seen the Sarge interview with Lawrence Wright? It’s the most unappreciated devastating “new news” that isn’t being picked up and mentioned in media, for years since Wright’s book (also Marty’s book 3, “Meanwhile Back At The Ranch” chapter has the new history with a few more details also a must read).
Hi Bill, ….or maybe the disembodied ex Sea Org members are doing “mini running in circles” running programs in those empty halls, or they are experimenting with loops and long ovals vs circlular “OT running”.
A similar picture over on The Bunker today. Hordes of people walking past the Harlem Org on their way to a concert and not a Scientologist in sight. ‘This is the way the world ends- not with a bang but a whimper.’
“Not with a bang, but with a whimper”…..not even a whimper, but with a shrug
I saw the same thing! Laughed my ass off!
Want some super glue?
Does a ragging Ann have a cloth croch?
Is that a rhetorical question or is it just immaterial? I’ve never dated ragging Ann but if you have her ph # I’m game if she is… then I can answer your question in stitches, lol!