There have been numerous stories posted on Tony Ortega’s blog of elderly people being scammed by scientology registrars (here is the most recent example).
One of our commenters recently sent me this, from December 2018.
It is a write up that 82 year-old Margaret Williams did to be converted into an affidavit. The commenter does not know what happened to Margaret and if she got her money back as she has not been in touch. Hopefully, she was made whole and is happily getting on with her life. If not, she should probably contact Graham Berry and ask for his help.
Just another example of the criminal, desperate for money at any cost, behavior of Scientology. And another reason the IRS should review and withdraw their tax exemption.
My name is Margaret Audrey Williams and I am 82 years old.
I was a Scientologist for 50 years. I trusted my church and everyone in it.
This past March, I had an experience with Scientology in Los Angeles, California at AOLA (Advanced Organization Los Angeles) where the Staff Members used undue influence on me to illegally obtain a line of credit on 3 credit cards where they then charged $59,500 for future Scientology services. I never authorized the charges.
The Staff members were Willie Wong, Registrar and his senior, Morgan ___________. Sea Org Staff member, Steve____________was also involved in the cycle.
The Sea Org Staff used many manipulative tactics to put me in state of confusion. They applied constant pressure and then some relief with auditing (spiritual counseling) and then more pressure.
They used many methods to deceive me into obtaining 3 credit cards from Chase Bank. I had no idea they were doing it until it was too late and I had $59,500 of debt I never authorized with Chase Bank.
Some of the methods used:
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On several occasions during my stay, they took me in a room and then several Sea Org Staff members ganged up on me for 71.5 hours trying to get me to obtain credit cards and a line of credit and purchase the rest of my Bridge to Total Freedom. I repeatedly told them no.
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Willie Wong would come to me on several occasions trying to get me to apply for a line of credit. He said if I went to Chase Bank – I could get a line of credit. He and another Sea Org Staff member had me go with them to Chase Bank. I really did not want to go but the pressure was too much.
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They kept me in the Registrar’s Office until 9:30 pm one night. They asked me to sign a bunch of papers. I was very tired and did not read any of them. I had signed thousands of papers throughout the 50 years and trusted my fellow Scientologist. I was not given any copies of the papers.
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The following day, another Sea Org Staff member told me I had $60,000 on account for future services. I was very upset and told them I never agreed to this.
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I feel they used manipulation and deceitful tactics to get me to sign those papers.
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When I got back to St Louis, I spoke to Chad Lane, the Executive Director with St Louis. He told me to write it up and he would get my money back.
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I wrote it up and then used some language to tell them how good Scientology was and how ethical it was. I wrote the nice things in my report so I would not get into trouble.
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It is a high crime to ask for a refund (they declare you a Suppressive Person and you lose all of your friends and family inside Scientology. It is a high crime to criticize L Ron Hubbard, Scientology, David Miscavige and Scientologists. When you commit high crimes you get into a lot of trouble and have to pay a lot of money to get out of trouble.
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Now, I feel these tactics are used a lot within Scientology Organizations and many people are financially ruined.
UPDATE: Graham Berry did help Margaret recover her money
I need to ask a dumb question – Why would an OT 7 need to buy $60,000 worth of service at AOLA? She’s not even one of their public; she should be doing services at Flag or the Fleecewinds. Unless, of course they’re making her do the basic books course or extension courses or some re-tread, which could be the case since scientology will do anything for money.
She only got her money back because it caused a “flap” or bad publicity. Didn’t Hubbard say something about dirty deeds don’t like to see the light of day? Memo to Scientology: “EVERYTHING you have done is going to see the light of day.” That sound you hear? Oh…That’s just the sound of your abusive cult circling the drain as it goes into the sewer of history.
I think we should call them leeches instead of vultures. Parasites with no discernible benefit, sounds about right! Vultures look so majestic in flight, nothing majestic about the money grubbing $cilons.
Glad she got her refund. The whole scam steams me, but the older folks being taken advantage of really gets me going!!
I wonder what society thinks about elder abuse? Way to go scientology. What a flattering picture you paint of your “ethical” organization.
Those kids got it so right when they flashed the word “Fuck scientology” on that ugly blue building in L.A.
There is one other that needs to be more accountable for this. That is Chase Bank and any other bank that would give credit cards in that amount to an 82 year old. I am 71 and the banks I use would never raise my limits to anywhere near that amount. Chase Bank has to be held accountable in this also as they knew that an 82 years old would not be able to pay back the money unless they we’re to check that they had enough liquid assets to cover it. I wonder if Chase Bank is in in the scam too or a scientologist works there to approve the requests?
David Bates – I am totally certain that Chase Bank and all credit card companies HELP Scientology scam people. They don’t care. The credit card reps job is to get people to take out credit. They don’t care if they can’t pay it. Check out the bankruptcy courts of Scientologists you know – the bankruptcies are standard operating procedure and the new normal for Scientologists. Just LOOK at the records. You will be blown away. We should start a blog on SCIENTOLOGISTS WHO FILED BANKRUPTCY – so we can help the business owners, Dentists, Chiropractors and other poor fools who believe in the propaganda from WISE that it will BOOM your business. Most of these people go broke and fade into the distance, suffering from post traumatic stress disorder – of having their lives ruined.
The Scientolgoists work directly with the Credit Card Companies and that is why they had Audrey Williams go to the BANK physically.
She does not even remember why she went to Chase Bank really. She thought they needed to see her ID. But when she wrote to them and told them Scientology put money on account without her knowing it – she must have signed something at the BANK because Chase Bank would not refund a dime. The Church of Scientology trains these people to have her spinning with confusion. It’s easy to pick people’s pockets when one is so confused they don’t know really which end is up.
Audrey told me she had no idea what is s going on and just succuumbed to do what she was told. The pressure was so constant and hard, she just became a non thinking robot trusting her church that they would do what is in her best interest.
Scientology really Sucks. I hope it gets shut down. In the meantime, I am happy Mike Rinder is exposing these stories for the world to see. It will certainly effect Scientology and keep other people from getting hurt.
I heard through some reliable sources that must remain anonymous that Audrey Williams not only got her money back but it was allegedly doubled. Of course, Audrey was gagged with the standard legal gag order. In other words, she was $cientologically $ilenced.
Audrey Williams may have signed legal dox to gag her and shut her up for eternity, but we did not.
Audrey moved to Corpus Christi, Texas to live with her daughter. She can’t speak to anyone anymore.
So much for the gains from Scientology. She spent her entire life as a Scientologist and in the end, the cult does this. “Able to talk to anyone about anything?” NOPE. Supressed, Invalidated and Nullified. So much for super powers.
Heh people – Shout it out the world. You can not only get your refund from Scientology when they commit fraud , but you can double it.
Document the criminal activity lurkers.
Get your spy cameras on like Reckless Ben and video all of the crush regging going on in Scientology.
It is just the right thing to do.
Janet, thanks for that insider report. I’m glad to see she’s now with family, who will hopefully protect her from any other exploitation.
Having a background in accounting and finance, the way I figure it, getting double her money back probably provided enough to pay Graham Berry – well-deserved – and cover her other costs like credit card fees, and even the unnecessary trip to LA. Essentially, she was “made whole” as they say – a fitting outcome, and what she deserved, maybe with a little but not a lot of extra compensation for “damages.”
In a way that is also a reminder of all the cost burdens and cost-shifting that Scientology’s reckless and fraudulent activities put on individuals and society. Every incident like this has all sorts of other costs imposed upon victims, like interest fees on loans, and having to hire professionas such as attorneys – not to mention hard-to-quantify ones like emotional distress, and in the case of working people, lost productive time dealing unnecessary hassles.
From welfare fraud supporting members working at orgs that don’t pay a living wage (in good part because too much money goes “uplines” to international management coffers), to what is probably an inordinately high number of bankruptcies among members that leave creditors unpaid, Scientology is really a parasite on the world around it. It might not even be able to exist if it couldn’t get away with not providing staff a living wage, and not providing proper living conditions including health care (not to mention retirement) to the Sea Org, plus various other ways it extracts effective subsidies from the world around it – even though of course it touts the principle of “exchange” and enforces it when to the organization’s benefit.
I’d love to see the CofS giving a “freeloader’s debt” bil for all its costs to the world around it. That could be an interesting research project for one of those students looking to report on Scientology, to estimate its actual cost to the economy.
Excellent post Mike Rinder. Thank you.
Scientology IS a criminal, parasitical organization that feeds of its members and discards without sorrow.
It’s a great relief to hear that.
Wellp, ma’am, I kin see what yer problem is right ‘ere: “I trusted my church and everyone in it.”
The above stated mindset is exactly why “affinity fraud” is A Thing.
I briefly lived in Utah, and was fascinated to learn that at the time I was there, that seemingly preternaturally friendly and honest state was in fact the US fraud capital. Evidently, the reason for this was because of the very stereotype I mentioned above— LDS church members pride themselves on their sense of community, integrity and honesty, and this made them profoundly vulnerable to con artists claiming to be fellow Mormons. Fraudulent schemes were peddled under the assumption that no decent LDS church member would ever knowingly defraud a coreligionist, so even “too good to be true” scams (which would normally set off alarms) were successfully sold using tactics to the effect of, “I wouldn’t normally share this amazing, limited-time opportunity with just anyone…but we Mormons should stick together and help each other out, right? And gentiles aren’t even aware that there’s lost hoardes of ancient gadianton gold & silver buried in the mountains, but WE know it’s true! So, it’s really only fair that other loyal LDS folks should get the chance to invest and profit!”
Bernie Madoff used the same affinity fraud tactics to scam Holocaust survivors out of their life savings, because it was simply unbelievable that a “nice Jewish boy” EVER would or could be callous and cruel enough to steal from members of his own community, let alone elderly survivors of genocide who had already been subjected to unimaginable horror, grief and loss.
My heart goes out to this poor woman, and I truly hope she sees the justice she deserves. Victimizing anyone, ever, is obviously a tragedy and a crime…but victimizing the vulnerable might be even worse.
That said, this pitiful and despicable story should, IMO, also serve as a warning to everyone: even the most snow-white sheep in one’s own flock might actually be well-costumed, ravenous wolves.
All victims of fraud are vulnerable which is why they become victims of fraud in the first place. The real issue is how vulnerable someone is, and why he or she is vulnerable. There are many reasons people can be vulnerable. Many people are vulnerable to scammers because they’re lazy and stupid and greedy and as such susceptible to get rich quick schemes. Others, like Scientologists, many Scientologists, are willfully blind and complicit in their being defrauded, again and again and again. Some people are lonely and clutch at the opportunity to be in communication with someone who sounds caring and interested. And some are truly innocent and inexperienced and they’re not necessarily young, either. Those in the truly innocent group, though, are more likely to learn a solid lesson after being scammed, and not let it happen again.
Absolutely correct, Sir. It is one thing to trust other people. But do not fail to trust yourself. If your snout chokes on the smell of it; if your eyes burn looking at it; If it seems like it is wrong or a scam, it is.
If it looks harmful to the Dynamics, it is. And importantly; The 1sr 3 dynamics are Dynamics equal to the others even if having the 1st 2 at all are seen as Crimes. by some cockaroaches.
After 23 years in the S.O. I was finally in compliance with my orders. I had reached the target given me by the org. I was a hero. I WAS ALSO DEAD.
I’m glad to see the update that she recovered her money. I hope that she got made whole, including being absolved of any interest or other credit card charges.
It’s been reported recently that Scientology has cracked down on these sorts of financial abuses. However, I’m always suspicious that any such seeming correction, if it even actually occurred, was temporary, and window dressing, and that the CofS and its staff will revert to their typically rapacious habits and practices.
Also, I fully expect that with orgs’ financial conditions as dire as they must now be, that unfortunately we’re going to hear horror stories of newly desperate efforts to get money out of members. I’m concerned that already, Scientology is likely going after members’ pandemic relief payments, plus loans those with small businesses may be eligible for – even though that money is sorely needed by its intended recipients.
Yes, Peacemaker, I have no doubt that you’re right and the cult is now going after the unemployment benefits, small business relief loans and other pandemic relief monies coming from the government.
But if they don’t resist, if they don’t protest; if the fucking dumbasses persist in their delusions and insist upon being scammed and going broke no matter what, then, other than continuing to get the the truth out there for them to look at, what else can we do?
Let the f**king cult rob them f**king blind, that’s all. They’re already blind so let them be robbed blind.
Sorry. This is one of my occasional No Compassion No Patience days. It will pass.
Aqua: i agree with you completely. Everone has to, to some degree,get in Ethics on their environment.
If you fail to stop someone who is robbing you, then you are an Accessory to the robbing. You are actually forwarding crime.You are aiding and abetting criminal activity. LRH said that a person who is an accessory gets the samw penalty (in Scientology) as the actual offender. This is not my opinion, this is based on LRH policies.
I hear you Aqua – and I agree. I guess I would like to protect future generations. I mean, if you stay in Scientology long after shows are exposing the truth about Scientology, like Leah Remini and Mike’s show, you deserve to get fleeced and destroyed because information is available and you are choosing to be stick your head in the sand. Fuck em all.
I hope the Scientologists I know all go broke and lose their homes if they have any. They are the cold and uncaring people who would throw their own mother under the bus for a fucking stat.
These regs are simply criminals, because instead of enlightening people they create shadows.
Everything always and only for the holy stats.
Otherwise conditions to be raised.
The thing I’ve always asked for but never had real answer is the following:
The conditions are operational states that you can plot on a chart. From non-existence to power.
But those under non-existence? They don’t reflect any aspect that can be put on a chart. They are more of a mental aspect than a physical one. Doubt or liability how do you put them on a chart? It is more a tailor-made trap than a real operational state.
In fact, when Hubbard talks about it he simply says that under non-existence there are other conditions without explaining anything else. Just believe it.
Worship of money and stats.
Speaking of St Louis I drive by the mission every 2-3 days. There are always 2 vehicles there, a beat up old green jeep and a mini maroon SUV. Early on in the lock down there were as many as 5 to 6 cars. Over the last three weeks there have been 2-3 vehicles. One time there were 4. St. Louis restrictions were opened today and late morning there were three cars there. I expected more.
Gordon
Good job
Nice to know the org is on lockdown still
No money coming in
The maroon mini van hunk of junk is long time Scientologist and Staff member
Joan Spencer
The Spencer family kept Scientology going for many years. Butt load of kids to serve as slaves for the Org
Joan Spencer is guarding the extortion files because us SP’s
don’t like black mail. Scientology will use your confidential info and black mail you
Orgs are paranoid
All Orgs make their staff guard those extortion files
They are a money maker for the cult.
Ex, thanks for the ID of the vehicles. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have some income from sneaking people in for auditing, though. They deliver so little these days, could just one or two extra cars in the parking lot account for keeping up auditing at virtually the same pace as always?
Courses are a bust – of course – except for the cheap extension courses they have all the loyalists doing. Hopefully before long, we’ll get some insider accounts about what exactly is going on.
A Saint, that maroon mini van has been sitting next to the VM van for months and months and months if not over a year. There is a maroon small SUV that has been there throughout the lock down. I have not gone by early or after hours to see if they go home at night.
Zee Moo opined:
“Margaret Williams needs to contact Graham Berry no matter what refund she received. Her last sentence is the EP for most $cientologists.”
zee Moo,
At 82, and with 50 years of experience to unwind, I wonder if Margaret can have the courage and energy it would take to bring the case. The vultures will defend their “successful” methods viciously; I’m not sure ANY award she could get from them would be worth the mindfuckery they will bring to bear at every chance, using her deepest, darkest secrets revealed in her sessions mixed with the sickest fantasies OSA’s operatives can conceive of (considerable, we’ve seen). It’s a shame libel and slander are so hard to prove in a court of law; or that their violation of “priest-penitent” privilege isn’t actionable. Otherwise, scientology would have MANY suits hanging over the Twit’s™ head. As the laws stand, there’s no profit in it.
See update to post.
It’s a great relief to hear that.
Jere,
Typically I’d agree about cases against co$, but these recent financial cases have the greatest potential to turn into an actual criminal case. Since Graham has been taking on these elder abuse/financial exploitation cases, the co$ has been settling them left and right.
They are acutely aware that details are concurrently provided to law enforcement and that Mike & Leah have made public pleas for those exploited like this to come forward.
Tony wrote about it (I’ll find link and post in reply) and featured a couple of the stories. Mike has posted info on reaching out to Graham and since then, each of these has settled quite quickly.
I am so glad to hear that she found Graham and was able to help get her funds back and then some. It will never give her the years or countless amounts of money, but it certainly must bring some relief to have that debt paid off and a nice little cushion besides.
I also recall too that Audrey told me she contacted the St Louis Org and spoke to the Executive Director, Chad Lane.
The Reverend Chad Lane told Audrey she could get her money back. All she had to do was to write it up and he would send it up lines. I think she was then ignored by Reverend Lane after he got what he needed.
This is how upper management is covering up these very common day to day crimes. They ask the ED’s to get them to write it up and compliment Scientology in the write up to stay out of ethics trouble. Then they ignore the person and tell them “you know what Ron says….”NO REFUNDS”. I never heard if she got her money back. She won’t call any of her good friends back. I think she has been traumatized by the entire ordeal. The poor woman.
Why do you refer to him as “Reverend Lane”? He is not a real reverend. Back when the church was having trouble with raids and stuff, they told some SO to get ordained by mail so that they could be called “reverend” and thus appear as a legit church. They also made some Scn crosses and had SO wear these, all in an effort to be taken seriously that they are a church and not a business.
Jane Doe – Everyone knows Scientology ministers are real. They even have a CERT hanging on the wall after paying $2,500 for a 4 hour course. 😛
Why the almighty Reverend Chad Lane even has one of those white collars to stick in his shirts and has married and buried a few Scientologists over the years. He likes it when they die because the family survivors are easy game for cleaning out bank accounts.
The Reverend Lane is the lead fraudster fund raiser for the St Louis Ideal Org building (sitting vacant for over 10 years) and now rumor has it – it is being sold after it was used as the schill to bilk $17 million out of the St Louis members.
Jane – come on – get with the program. Chad Lane calls himself a Marketer, a Minister and an Author. Therefore HE IS.
https://chadtlane.com
If you want to start a cult – Chad Lane can help you dupe people too out of their hard earned money for your cult. “Whose Next?” is the carnival barkers favorite shout out when fund raising.
Jane Doe, the cult ordains the ministers itself. Certs & Awards issues the certificates. It has issued many such for use in immigration fraud cases.
I recall back in the 70s there was a huge push to make orgs mock up a religious image. All were ordered to put crosses up and ministerial collars were to be worn by all qualified staff. I recall staff were reluctant to abide which was no surprise because no one thought of it as a church anyway.
I remember Rex Fowler dressed in that get up. Now he’s wearing an orange jumpsuit and serving time somewhere.
A Happy and Content Soul:
I love your alias.
Pretty much describes me these days — particularly when I am calm enough to stay away from the scientology debacles until late in the afternoon like this.
I worked in Registration, Treasury and the Finance Office at AOLA for 20 years.
I kept my integrity in most the time but the few times that I did not left invisable scars. It took another 20 (!!!!) years to even SEE them.
They come to view once ‘the greatest good – LRH/Scientology/SeaOrg’
reasoning falls apart.
That is a lie that justified the behaviors.
These Sea Org members have no clue how they are infact ruining their very own future happyness/spiritual freedom no matter how many hours they spend in session.
I truly hope IRS shuts this down. I don’t see much way these turned criminals will reform while there.
Willy Wong was my friend 😢. Erin Steiner – was she Pat Selley Bromley’s daughter I wonder?
Good perspective to have Cece. I know (& love) you and your heart for all living things personally, so I struggle to ever picture you doing things even remotely close to this!
But it also seems to have become more desperate, more criminal since you were there. From turning EVERYONE (even auditors) into reges for the Basics push, to even using case info to push buttons in order to get people to give – though it’s always been very wrong, the way they pressure – it definitely seems the little tyrant has placed SO much overt pressure, that people will do anything legal or not to squeeze money out of every “mark”!
Yes, it’s much much worse. I never got even close to anything like this. Any day my X will be phoneing wanting advice: “What out here, should I read first?”
😘
Disgusting vultures. All of them. Makes me sick.
Margaret Williams needs to contact Graham Berry no matter what refund she received. Her last sentence is the EP for most $cientologists.
I lurk on the fringes of the internet. I was in years ago and stopped going in when the Finance Police did their raids. I have been following your blog Mike and commend you for the good work exposing information like this.
I met Audrey Williams many years ago. She was such a believer and so dedicated back then and obviously was trapped inside the bubble of delusion for over 40 years. Scientology promises of levels of awareness never known to man before. It is actually levels of unawareness the Scientologists achieve. They don’t have a clue they are being duped until it gets really, really bad. Scientology needs to be shut down and those responsible for these shenanigans should be charged with fraud. Scientology has gone rogue. It is pure evil.
The Finance Police arrived on the scene right at the end of my time on staff.
Absolutely bat shit crazy, specializing in screaming sessions down the phones, on-the-spot declares and insane threats, One of my colleagues found a carving knife embedded in her desk, all courtesy of the Finance Police.
They are one of the reasons I refused to re-sign my staff contract, not the only one by a long shot.
After I left staff, I was off-lines for several years and the first question I asked when I did eventually go in for an interview was whether the Finance Police were still around. I was assured that they were not.
I was given a long talk about how the Finance Police were a part of the bad old days and they were gone for good, and how everything was much better now. Some of this I believed.
Certainly. the Finance Police never did reappear, for which I was truly grateful.
Retired from Religion:
scientology hasn’t “gone rogue” It was designed to be that way, so it’s STAYED rogue, if anything.
Excellent picture of the vultures. How appropriate!
This article does more to condemn this criminal scam than any other article I can remember seeing.
A copy of this article should be sent to everyone who works for the IRS. AAMOF, it should be sent to them every day until they revoke the insane tax free status.
Reading this article should be enough to make anyone extremely ill.
True Skyler – this should be required reading especially for those on the fence about leaving. But I do hope (and believe) that Mike, Leah, Tony, etc… inspire many of us to write and submit our own “knowledge reports” on the approved IRS forms when these stories come out. Plus the fact that they’re helping coordinate these reports so that victims know Graham Berry is willing to help them demand return of their money and get these provable instances reported to the appropriate agencies so that they begin to see the totality of the ongoing fraud!
Wow. Such abuse, especially against an elderly woman. Do the M/Fers who committed it all feel any remorse? Rhetorical question.
I knew a member who’d suffered similarly and wound up losing everything (house and job) and had to go live in her car. She had “donated” all her savings and took on huge credit card debt to give more money to the cult. She was never the “brightest penny in the pile” financially speaking so surely that contributed to her debacle too. But STILL, this mess would have never happened if she had not been drinking the koolaid too.
Yes, Mike. I too hope our government will grow a pair, rigorously investigate and rescind the cult’s exempt status. It is not a religion and does not contribute anything to us.
Those fuckers need to have the bracelets clapped on them and taken to jail minimumly to get this shit to stop. If all that happens is a few people get their money back they will keep doing it. The pain of no sleep till they make their quota and being in ethics trouble will drive these people with no integrity to commit continuous crimes. The real criminals are those who by their actions cause them to lie and steal and anyone who profits from the crimes, i.e. das Dwarfenfuehrer.
LRH says that the pressure not to commit a crime has to be greater than the pressure to commit one. A few heads on pikes might slow down the criminals but that will never come from the Church because they profit from the crimes.
Scientology is caught in a real dwindling cycle. More desperate, more pressure, more criminal, even more desperate, even more pressure, even more criminal. It’s a growing storm.
It goes without saying – don’t get involved with cults no matter how high their imaginary pie in the sky is.
Peter Blood remarked:
“It goes without saying – don’t get involved with cults no matter how high their imaginary pie in the sky is.”
AND, No matter HOW high you are. (couldn’t resist).
I am pretty fu…..ed up too man.
Just remember lession number 2 from Scarface.
Don’t get High on your own supply.
I was on staff in the late-70s to mid-80s.
This is true for that time and for the org / “Cont” where I was posted.
There were financial irregularities. Mainly this was comprised of postulate checks and miscounting the Gross Income to include items that had not been received by the deadline.
Finance Office staff (and before them GO staff) were in place to monitor these irregularities and stamp them out. There were never any come-backs for reporting or eliminating financial irregularities.
Some of the actions one hears about these days would have been completely beyond the pale in my day.
No one ever took out credit cards in someone else’ name or charged anyone’s credit card without permission.
I am aware of a couple of unethical regges who debited public member’s book accounts without their permission. This was not tolerated. In the Sea Org it would result in an RPF assignment. In a Class V Org, the staff member would be removed from post at the very least.
I am not saying that this time of 40 years ago was a Golden Age for Scientology or that abuses did not exist, but I continue to be shocked at how far everything has gone downhill.
As a sanitation Engineer acquaintence said:
‘ S..t don’t flow uphill.”
Cavalier. This was the same in Italy at the beginning of the 80s. But the true nature of Scn is stats up over dead bodies.
It is a kind of drug they can’t stop using.
Ideal orgs are an example of stats push. They don’t wait that something naturally levels. They must push it up in an increasing frenzy.
But this is why they are gonna fail.
Nowadays, in the SO at least; robbing someone and giving the loot to the org would likely be rewarded.
Someone might be able to help her with filing this out:
https://www.justice.gov/elderjustice/roadmap
The Dept of Justice is looking into a lot of these scams…….she could probably file under ” someone she knows and trusts”…..
Her local Senator or Congressman/woman would be another go to.
I’d rather be a comfortable elderly woman with money than a Declared S.P. with NO MONEY>
Balletlady – I know Audrey Williams and she told me too what happened. I know she contacted government officials. She contacted a lot of them. Local and otherwise. You have to understand – NO government official will do anything. Scientology is a “RELIGION”. Do you research on the Religious Cloak Scientology gets to hide under. When I got out – I contacted the FBI. You know what they said? “Sir, you signed legal documents, didn’t you?” I told the FBI guy – “I was in a church and I was being deceived. I trusted that I was not getting scammed by a church”. I hope that changes. We need to do a protest in front of FBI headquarters.
https://youtu.be/pwQIRHjJxV4
Friend of Audrey, SHE NEEDS TO CONTACT A CA ATTY! Newsflash! The government is fucking BROKEN. It isn’t that it is scamologyu it is that gov’t workers don’t have to perform to stay employed, so they don’t.
https://dolanlawfirm.com/elder-abuse/elder-financial-abuse-definition/
Wynski, you are 100% spot fucking on. From my decades working in government I can confirm; it is serving itself only, not the Public it is legally supposed to.
Sad but true. In my years of public service I fought diligently to change things and proudly was successful in efforts to save the public from increase of financial burdens and restrictions of freedom. Today I can hold my head up high and feel a very warm and honest heart.
Glad there are guys like you Glenn.
I KNOW whereof as you speak…I have two friends who are retired FBI agents & one CIA retired…they ALL say exactly what you’ve stated….BUT in addition say…DO NOT GIVE UP…
No matter how many letters you write, or feel it’s useless…do not give up. That includes writing Congressman, Senators, local politicians…do not give up.
Be a thorn in their side, a pain in the ASS a HUGE annoyance…keep the pressure on. The squeakiest wheel gets the most attention.
Morgan Vander..something. I forget. She used to the Snr TTC I/C WUS before she was busted down to being a Reg at AOLA. Steve no clue … not Kemper. He left AOLA/SO a number of years ago. Sad to see these people are still committing crimes while the local law enforcement stands around smiling for pictures and accepting money to be hired as off-duty cops for Scientology security.
Horrible.
The overwhelming with people and time and those you love chiming in and intense pressure is something I am very familiar with. It’s a criminal organization that uses the leverage it has on you and accumulates with you over the time you are in it to then get what it wants.
It’s a good thing it’s being exposed; it’s a bad thing that we have such inept gov’t agencies and judicial system. Not one human being should have to go through this without some form of justice. In the world of scientology, if you don’t go through it, you’re the exception or you don’t have any money, credit, a job or wherewithal for it to bother with you.
Wow! Hope she is doing fine.
Piranas are surely less aggressive.
Yesterday Mat Pesch wrote a great comment that summarize perfectly the current state of affairs.
This story proves that the longer you are in Scientology, the higher the chances of being ripped off.
These people who took her money are criminals.
Pathetic, just pathetic. Scientologists are parasites that will suck their ‘host’ dry and leave an empty shell. How in the world is an 82 year old person, probably retired and living on a fixed income, supposed to pay off $60K in credit card debt? Scientologists just don’t care; they made it under the Thursday 2PM wire and now they are out hunting down this week’s mark.
So far removed from an actual religion or any kind of caring community.
This is why Sea Org members are kept under constant pressure, overworked and with no time for leisure. Given any time to reflect on what they are doing, I’m sure these regges would see what evil rats they’ve become.
Mike, this is so good you have posted this information about Audrey Williams. It needs to go out for the world to see how this church operates and then hides its criminal activities by silencing victims with fear tactics.
I knew Audrey. I can attest that this happened to her. She told me. I will share what I know – to the best of my recollection.
She contacted me after this happened and told me the AOLA Registrar, Erin Steiner and perhaps one other person, came to St Louis to get people to go to AOLA. They came to Audrey’s house to regg her to come out to LA to do some Bridge. She let her guard down and let them in her house.
The bait and switch Erin Steiner pulled on Audrey was criminal. But this is how Scientology works. Here is what Audrey told me happened.
As part of any regg cycle, Erin Steiner asked Audrey what she wanted to accomplish with her next Scientology auditing action. (find the ruin)
Audrey told Erin she wanted to hear better. She wore hearing aids and could not hear without them. Audrey was OT.
Audrey told them her funds were limited. She was a very limited income and had no money to buy auditing. She only had a little amount, which they accepted and promised her she would not have to spend any more money.
In fact, I recall that Audrey told me it was Erin Steiner who promised Audrey that the next action on her Bridge would handle her hearing loss. She also promised Audrey that she would not have to spend any more money and that they would keep her hotel costs very low and gave her the amount to budget. Audrey, who is OT 7, of course, believed them. Audrey was a trusting person who believed Scientology was ethical.
Audrey got out to LA and enjoyed the auditing but it did nothing to help her hearing loss. She was pressured daily by many Sea Org staff ganging up on her to put her entire Bridge on Credit cards they would help her obtain. She did not want to get any credit cards but was so pressured, she caved into the demands. They would ask her to push buttons on a lap top computer Willy Wong was using to get the credit cards after pounding the non stop pressure for her to do something she did not want to do. The regging was hard core and relentless.
I believe Audrey told me they drove her to Chase Bank and told her to go inside to do some type of verification of her identity that it was her. I assume this was due to her being 82 and the large line of credit of $60,000. That is a large amount of credit to do over the internet. Audrey did as they asked her to do and went into the bank to let the bank know it was her. I suspect that these credit card companies get calls daily from the Registrars at Scientology. Audrey told me Chase Bank would not reverse the charges nor agree that fraud was committed. I am sure that had something to do with her going in for the verification process. The Credit Card companies are not stupid. They must know by now something is up with Scientology and these huge lines of credit.
After her auditing they put her on the routing form, standard procedure, and then they asked her when she could come back to finish her Bridge. Audrey said she did not have any money. The Registrar (who did not know what happened and was most likely not involved in the shenanigans) said, “yes you do – you have $59,500 on account”. Audrey was mortified.
This 82 year old woman escaped the hotel in the middle of the night. She put all of her clothes on – layering them over each other and then fled the hotel. She left everything including her toiletries and her luggage there in the room and took a cab to the airport and flew home.
This information is what I recall Audrey telling me. She does not communicate with any Scientologists anymore as far as I know.
Scientology is a criminal organization and our government needs to intervene and shut it down.
Thanks so much for sharing these further details. Another heartbreaking story from the most ethical beings on earth…
“Audrey got out to LA and enjoyed the auditing but it did nothing to help her hearing loss.”
OR anything else that the regges promised. scientology is nothing but string upon string of broken promises, particularly the “Oh, the NEXT [level/grade/action] will handle THAT”, so often promised so “sincerely”.
Another example of what a criminal organization $ci is. It doesn’t give a damn about it’s members. A 50 year $ci member who $ci is happy to ruin the twilight years of her life to get their stats up and get commission.
The closest a scn gets to caring about another is caring if they can get them to PAY the next installment of money demanded of them.
You’re all going to really hate this
They scammed her, yes, Unmercifully.
But she let them do it.
Ok, she was 82 years old.
OK, regging and scamming an 82 year old woman is beyond wrong and disgusting.
But – here’s the “but”…
She was no newcomer to Scientology.
She was in for 50 years.
FIFTY YEARS.
Fifty years of being reg’ged non stop; recruited for staff non-stop; FIFTY years of Int Events, “Closed Door Briefings”; FIFTY years during which she was sec checked out the wazoo on her OT levels and before her OT levels regged continually on her lower bridge, after and during each completion, for her next Bridge action and a zillion other things Fifty years, people. Think about it.
Did she learn NOTHING?
Just a guess:
She was OT 7 so how many times over say a 10-20 year period did she hear or was it implied in a reg cycle that “Your next Bridge action should handle your hearing loss.”? And it NEVER did.
In all that time, didn’t she see ANYTHING? Didn’t she have ANY clue as to how rapacious the regging was? Didn’t she observe ANY outnesses as regards the promises that were made for the services she bought?
Willful blindness, maybe?
Fifty years, don’t forget.
And of course, no no no no no she didn’t “deserve” to be scammed. No hard of hearing well meaning 82 year old woman deserves to be scammed. No honest trusting person deserves to be scammed – PERIOD.
But after 50 YEARS IN THE CULT she should have learned SOMEthing.
So she’s 82, so what?
We’re all going to be 82 some day.
Some of us don’t have that far to go.
But we learned a thing or two, didn’t we?
Just saying.
Ok, you can pile on now, I’m prepared.
PS: And for the record, I’m VERY glad that Graham Berry recovered her money, and then some! This means she DID learn something, in the end, after 50 years, finally. As they say, better late than never. Kudos to her for finally waking up! And I hope she’s having fun spending that money and enjoying financial peace of mind.
Aqua, at 82 she would be on her way to becoming physically and even mentally frail – quite posssibly in the early, though undiagnosable, stages of some form of dementia. That’s precisely why the laws recognize elder abuse – and even the legal principle of undue influence (a term cult scholars also use more generally):
“Undue influence occurs when someone exerts pressure on an individual, causing that individual to act contrary to his or her wishes and to the benefit of the influencer or the influencer’s friends. … The elderly and infirm are usually more susceptible to undue influence.”
> https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-undue-influence–15696
And from a psychological perspective:
“Undue Influence is not a diagnosis per se, but rather refers to an uneven relational dynamic that places an older person at increased risk for excessive persuasion and causes them to act against their own self-interest. Undue Influence is the driver behind many cases of financial exploitation and fraud, and older adults don’t have to be suffering from dementia to be a victim.”
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-fraud-crisis/201811/how-can-we-identify-undue-influence-in-our-elderly-clients
I get your point about individual awareness and responsibility, but by the time someone is in their 70s and 80s I think it has to be taken into consideration – and the law, and psychology, agree – that they may have diminished capacity. That 82 year old may be at a point where she does not even have as clear a grasp on those experience and lessons from her Scientology career as she did previously. Are you really willing to judge, at a distance, and with certainty, that she’s not into some sort of cognitive decline that left her less able and more vulnerable?
Don’t wholly agree, Peacemaker. In business I’ve known people who kept all their marbles and then some well into their 90s. In my family I’ve known 3 people close to me with all their faculties into their mid 80s and mid 90s. I also know someone in her late 70s with hardly any memory left. I know people in their 50s who can’t even recall what they had for breakfast. All of this being said, I don’t know this woman and if she was in such a state of cognitive decline as you describe then there’s no argument, you’re 100% right. I was opining based on her not being in such a state. 82 is not necessarily as old and over the hill as it used to be, its seems. I was also opining on her having been trained and audited for the past 5 decades, having been in Scientology orgs for 5 straight decades and having experienced all that that would entail. One would think that at least warning bells would go off. But people who persist in magical thinking, these Still Ins who hold on and hold on and let themselves get lied to and scammed continually, year in and year out, these people don’t improve with age. Something has to shock them, really shock them, IMO, before they actually start looking and stop listening. But again, all of this being said, if she was indeed in some stage of dementia, early or otherwise, then there’s NO argument and you’re right. I didn’t take that possibility into consideration when I judged her for “learning nothing” about the cult after being 50 years in. It didn’t occur so you’re right to point it out. Certainly the whole thing would make more sense if indeed she was in this state. Although it doesn’t say much for Scientology, does it, that an OT 7 and a 50 years long trained and audited Scientologist would end up with Alzheimer’s? Not exactly a product of the Tech 🙂 And last but not least, no matter WHAT mental state this woman was or is in, I am FERVENTLY glad that she got her money back and then some, from the cult! Make no mistake on THAT point! ANY money that ANY Still In can, in any way legally possible. claw back from this unscrupulous greedy cult is totally deserved, and I salute her and Graham Berry!
I know Audrey Williams very well. She told me all about the criminal acts by Scientology. She did not have dementia. She was a victim of a scam and Scientology got caught and gave her all of her money back and doubled it.
She was manipulated, deceived, pressured and coerced. It’s much like the cops do to someone they want to pin a crime on. They isolate the person….pretend to care about the….tell them they are their friend and trying to help…gang up on the person…keep them up late…confuse them and apply pressure, pressure, more pressure while they play the good Regg / cop vs bad Regg / Cop .
It’s called mind control brainwashing and it works.
This is why Scientologists train – to get everyone’s money.
This happens every single day in Scientology. Nothing is going to change ever.
She just happened to complain about it loud enough – she got all of her money back and it was doubled, from what I heard. So her $60 K was $120K in refund from the cult.
Friend of Audrey Williams,
THANK YOU for responding to me and sharing all of this EXTREMELY good news!
I am very glad she didn’t have dementia but yet used the legal system with regard to Elder Abuse to get DOUBLE her money back from the cult! Wow!
This is fabulous news. This does my heart good, because you are 100% correct; the pressure that is exerted on Still Ins of ALL ages can be overwhelming, totally and one does not have to be over 65 to be susceptible to it!
One can be highly vulnerable at ANY age to the ruthless tactics, the mental trickery and emotional blackmail the cult brings to bear when it targets a Still In for money.
Forget her age; very very 100 X VERY well done to Audrey Williams, your friend, for pushing back, for saying, “No way, this is NOT going to stand, this is NOT going to be OK” and then being willing to go at the cult hammer and tongs to get justice done, to get her money back by any legal means necessary (PLUS damages, if you please)!
And kudos galore to Graham Berry, naturally. You are The Man, Mr. Berry!
You’ve really made my night, FoAW. Thanks again!
Scientology is a suppressive organization! They prove it over and over again.
Simple case of financial elder abuse under California law.
“What is financial elder abuse in California?
Definition of Elder Financial Abuse Under California Law
(2) Assists in taking, secreting, appropriating, obtaining, or retaining real or personal property of an elder or dependent adult for a wrongful use or with intent to defraud, or both.”
I posted it above…but it bears repeat posting….
https://www.justice.gov/elderjustice/roadmap
Also note that AARP does have information on Elder Abuse Scamming……check that out too.
She just needs to contact a CA atty and away she goes. If she waits it gets harder and harder to reverse.
See update. Graham Berry helped her recover her money…
FTW !!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the Good News Mike!!!!!
Even without the obvious fraud and theft, this is such a classic and awful case of elder abuse.
This is a felony. And an affront to human dignity.
👍