STAND is obviously paying close attention to the Fair Game podcast,
No sooner had the episode where we talked to Alex Gibney aired than they trotted out a new smear on him.
From none other than the renowned expert, Will Seabrook.
It would be interesting to ask Mr. Seabrook in person whether he has watched Going Clear. I would bet he has not.
If, by chance, he has, then I would love to ask him two simple questions: What specific can you cite to classify his film as a “bigoted propaganda video”? Tell me a single fact that is wrong? It’s funny, scientology has NEVER refuted the content of the film, but have gone to great lengths to shout “bigotry” and engage in ad hominem attacks.
Will goes on to say: “Because here’s the thing: the Church is either what its members say it is, or it’s what propagandists say it is. It simply cannot be both.” OK, how about what the EX-members say it is? The ones who are no longer under the spell of the mind prison? Because they are actually the people talking in the film. And you know Will — I do not remember you ever being at Gold? Or in the Sea Org? So, how do you know whether what the people in the film said is true?
Will then pitches another “Dead Agent” line: “And the Church went to extraordinary lengths to give the actual facts to Alex Gibney; he refused to use them,” — yes, of course. All the binders of “good works” and endorsements from people that weren’t even aware that the drug free campaign was sponsored by scientology? And how come not a single scientologist appeared on the show to put forth the “truth”? Where were you Will? I know for a fact that Alex tried to get any scientologist to appear in the show (just as we did with The Aftermath) and that option was flatly refused. To then bleat “you ignored our information” is pretty ridiculous.
Seabrook goes on: “I don’t want to live in a world where a major cable network is allowed to get away with knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry against my church, my religion, my friends and my family. And the authors of the bigoted lies, and the media companies who spread them for profit no matter who gets hurt, should be held accountable…” So, Will, scientology has billions of dollars and hundreds of lawyers who are paid to write screeds of letters threatening lawsuits. But not a single one has been filed since Time magazine. That’s the remedy available to you. Why not use it?
He then wraps things up with the obligatory brown-nosing of the Dear Leader.
But in the end Will, if as you claim “millions” are reading Hubbard’s works “every day” and “experiencing what scientology is” then why do you care about a podcast? Or even a major tv show? Why get all exercised about it when you guys always claim it has no impact on your 3xpansion other than to generate more interest? That it’s a “sign of success”?
Apparently the bloggers on the fringes of the internet are having a greater impact than you let on…
They claim they “don’t want to live in a world where a major cable network is allowed to get away with knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry.”
But of course they do!
But as it stands they will have to settle for their Cult Shopping Network–“a cable network” about as puny as their great leader–as their tool for “knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry” of their own. But then again why bother if no one is watching…
I’ve been reading that Danny Masterson went to court and appeared on Sept. 18. But I cannot find any mention of the result.
I know he did not plead either guilty or not guilty and his attorney complained about the conduct of the media. But why is there no mention of the result of that hearing? Can anyone explain what happened?
His lawyer filed what’s called a “Demurrer” in his case, which according to my not at all Law School educated googling, means that they don’t dispute the facts of the case, but argue that the opponent’s argument is invalid. So all signs would point to that the argument is going to be that he admits he did it, but the statute of limitations has run out. The rapes took place between 2001 and 2003, and according to RAINN.org, the statute of limitation for sex crimes in California is 10 years, unless it’s a felony charge, then it goes up to 20. It gets gross when you factor in that Scientology has paid a lot of hush money for this over the years. :/ LAPD – which has been accused by many people of being all up in the Scientology payroll – didn’t even begin investigating these rapes until 2017.
Skyler-
It was meant to simply be an arraignment, which is where the judge reads the official charges against the accused and the accused enters a plea and is assigned a court date. But in this case, after the attorney was done grandstanding and ranting, he submitted what is called a demurrer. Essentially they are calling into question the fact or basis of the case, and in this one they’re specifically stating it’s past the statute of limitations and also that he doesn’t qualify for the special enhancement (which is what takes his potential sentence up to 45yrs). On TonyOrtega’s site you can read the demurrer itself.
So because of that, the court has an obligation to “hear” that, so they set a date to consider/rule
on the demurrer. If the demurrer fails and the case moves forward, they’ve already stated he will please not-guilty.
Hope that helps – that’s my best laymen’s attempt at what seems to be happening.
Skyler tell me you do read Tony Ortega’s ‘The Underground Bunker’ as well as Mike’s site. He live blogged the whole thing on his site with Jeffery Augustine (Karen De la C’s husband) at the courthouse reporting on every move Masterson made as well as who was there. I’ll put the links below. Ortega’s and Mike’s sites go together like two peas in a pod.
I will say the only difference is the comments. Ortega’s site uses ‘disqus’ which is unmoderated and in real time. Ortega can ban people and mod comments but usually he don’t and most of the time the comments are ‘off topic’ and sometimes go way off the rails. I comment over there but not a whole lot. There’s some people that will argue with you about anything even when you’re agreeing with them. Plus I don’t like the whole political thing. Ortega used to have a ‘no politics’ request on the comment section but that has gone by the wayside. I don’t like to see people from the same country (even same world) who came together to stop the abuses of a controlling cult suddenly rip each other to shreds over who they are going to vote for…which of course to me proves none have left the controlling mindset behind (whether they were in Sci or not) and it doesn’t matter to me which ‘side’ they’re for either as both are unable to discuss anything political as rational adults. But with that said I do read through the comments every day as there are good people there as well.
So…Ortega’s reporting is top notch and he’s been going at Sci Inc. for well over 10-15 years. He used to be the Editor In Chief at the ‘Village Voice‘ and had a section just for Scientology there before he opened up his own site.
https://tonyortega.org/2020/09/18/scientology-celeb-danny-masterson-to-be-arraigned-today-for-raping-three-women/
https://tonyortega.org/2020/09/19/read-danny-mastersons-demurrer-hes-hoping-will-get-his-criminal-charges-dismissed/
This report has a copy of Masterson’s ‘demurrer’ that he submitted to the court to try and get out of the charges. His defense isn’t even ‘I didn’t do it’. His defense is ‘the statute of limitations has run out’. Loser. I hope they throw the book at him.
Jane Smith, jenyfurrr and Linear13,
Thank you very much for your replies. I don’t know how I missed this info at Tony Ortega’s site. But I did. I will now go and take a more detailed read.
I just hope if this demurrer tactic fails and Masterson winds up with the penalty he deserves.
Thanks again.
Will Seabrook has a fb page. Leave him a message. I did 🤣. Oops he just blocked me . No confront ?
Wasn’t it Hubbard who instructed his internal OSA Gestapo to manufacture evidence against his imaginary enemies … I mean those who legally exercise their first amendment rights to criticize that criminal Mafia-like Scientology money cult posing as a religion?
b>BINGO! Formost. TheGO, later renamed OSA, was charged with “Manufacturing” crimes to charge against their targets if a ‘noisy investigation’ didn’t turn up real crimes or drive the target into hiding. “What’s true for you is true for you” taken to the absurd extreme.
Really coherent people. Here in Italy they went into the schools with the campaign Youth for human rights. They didn’t said to anybody it was promoted by the cult. When this came up it wasn’t really well accepted by the most of the parents. Even the school directors didn’t knew it. They told them it was a campaign promoted by a non-profit organization.
Before criticizing other they should honestly look in their own house and see how much dirty laundry they have there.
“I don’t want to live in a world where a major cable network is allowed to get away with knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry against my church, my religion, my friends and my family. And the authors of the bigoted lies, and the media companies who spread them for profit no matter who gets hurt, should be held accountable…”
Will, you don’t live in that world. The bubble you live in spreads lies and false propaganda against truth sayers. The major network is broadcasting the truth. When your blinders come off, and I hope they do, the Aftermath Foundation or any other number of good people who have managed to escape the brainwashing and lies of the prison of fear you are currently stuck in will be there to help you find out what it feels like to tell the truth again. I wish you all the best on your journey out. Please start it soon.
ValR, You made a most excellent reply. I can’t imagine a better one. Well done!
GREAT response, ValR. I just hope “Will” or whoever is posting as “Will” gets a chance to see it. Eventually, truth will triumph over the constant lies of the global for-profit enterprise representing itself as scientology.
Yep Mike, they don’t like being effect. Ouch!
Of course no one likes that, but then does one come back with specifics, or generalities? With exact time, place , form and event, and PEOPLE (for some reason that important ingredient was not spelled out) that sensibly refute what you say, or with broad labels and the frantic BIGOT, BIGOT, BIGOT trumpeting. They are themselves the self-proclaimed ‘’BIG OT’’ (could not resist). Unfortunately for the defenders of the indefensible, they can only do the latter in desperation because they just can’t admit to the specific truths.
Sortingitout, what they can’t stand is the TRUTH.
” Seabrook goes on: “I don’t want to live in a world where a major cable network is allowed to get away with knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry against my church, my religion, my friends and my family. ”
Yo Will,
Then move on good buddy. Say hi to El Con if you happen to bump into his thetan! If youre upset now big boy, wait a little longer ………….. it will get much worse for you and yer ‘in good standing’ folks soon.
Dang! I was just going to post the exact same thing!
“demonstrably false bigotry against the church…” OK, so if it is so demonstratably false bigotry, then please demonstrate which parts are false and why and what the truth is instead? The church has never done that because it can’t…. the allegations are true. So without any way to demonstrate that any one statement by Leah and Mike or by Alex Gibney is false, you resort to just ad hominem attacks on the people’s character. And those attacks are the false statements. The church has a motto. If you can’t prove something wrong, just smear the person saying it. No facts needed.
Bingo! So simple. But that path of independent thought cannot exist within a person who is actively choosing to not look.
The road ahead for humanity is questionable. For people stuck in a cult there is no doubt about the outcome. Light houses are for people looking to see where they are going, especially if they are at sea.
The See Org will never see the light …………
Yo Dave,
Welcome to the shoals good buddy. Yer fine ship of fools has run aground. The rest is history!
Exactly!
Newcomer, the rest WILL be history; Those of us who have gotten out and are now able to look and evaluate freely already know most of what history will say about the organization now calling itself scientology.
Cindy, that’s SO right: If it’s demonstrably false, then PLEASE demonstrate it” with verifiable facts, please, not just rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth attacks. Oh you can’t DO that? Then please just retreat back under the bridge you live under.
That entire tome can only be aimed at the Dear Leader. Every time something like this shows up in the $cienoverse, more doubt and introspection will result. That is never good for the Clampire.
Perhaps STANDs mental masturbation should have a name. I propose calling it the ‘Miscavige Effect’. That way his name will be immortalized.
“I don’t want to live in a world where a major cable network is allowed to get away with knowingly spreading ridiculous, demonstrably false bigotry against my church, my religion, my friends and my family.”
Well, allow me to show you the door.
Or, you could take a small pin and burst that tragic bubble you are living in.
Zola offered:
“Or, you could take a small pin and burst that tragic bubble you are living in.”
Nicely put, Zola.
I always get a laugh out of Scientology cult members trying to set the religion in a positive light. My ex OT VIII former friend still has not communicated to his daughter in more that twenty five years. If Scientology is really so powerful, it should be able to at least break a barrier. Forty years ago Hubbard could promote his theory of entities and demons and convince people that eliminating them led to mental health. Nothing could be more ridiculous as thousands who tried it, including me, have been recognized. Hubbard lived at the end of the age of the Occult. When he was young, newspapers carried thousands of articles about spirits and ghosts. There were hundreds of books published by Occult authors. Science took a beating in the press as psychic powers were more widely accepted. But science got the last laugh with new translations of ancient texts and better discoveries. Hubbard was outdated in a flash of quantum light that he never understood.
The Xenu story is such a catchy story, and it puts Hubbard/Scientology into perfect place, instantly.
I mean, telling anyone that Xenu earth dumped zillions of “body-thetans” and that today Scientology’s “upper levels” have 5 expensive time consuming exorcism steps, and that Scientologists may even exorcism thousands or more “body-thetans” off their bodies, to fix themselves, is just the best way to inform anyone who asks “What Is Scientology?”
It’s a huge amount of secret exorcism of Xenu’s earth dump (the 4th Dynamic Engram/OT 3 story) of “body-thetans.”
Scientology is tied up hiding their own exorcism high volume secret practices.
It’s snipe-hunting, in effect, and Scientologists are conditioned into thinking they are infested with Xenu’s “body-thetans” and then they pay to do a lot of exorcism to rid themselves of their loads.
Load of crap.
And “Going Clear….” book specifically, final pages, detail Hubbard’s admission of failure.
The Kindle enhanced edition has the extra footage of Sarge telling Wright the Hubbard admission of failure, and about the Hubbard standard suicide Emeter Hubbard asked Sarge to build.
The Scientologists aren’t allowed to hear their own history, and they aren’t allowed to even define their religion publicly, simply.
So the world needs to know the biggest simplest theory parts, and specifically the “body-thetans” earth dump by Xenu, for which Scientology’s OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are expensive exorcism “solutions” (which in truth is snipe hunting).
Zenu was such a poor story that I could punch big holes in it the first time I read it. Barely literate, referring to things which didn’t exist in the world it supposedly was set in. Just like his admitted fiction, no character development, a complete lack of plot or purpose to anything that happened. Nothing redeeming about it, not even a fun romp of a read.
Hubbard all his career always put out details that contradicted themselves.
The bigger problem, all along, is just the “soul” is one of those human concepts that launch people into all manner of contradicting ramifications.
Xenu brought humanoids to earth, genocided them, the “souls” of these genocided humanoids (from the distant galaxy where Marcab confederacy was) these souls (“body-thetans”) lacked the aptitude to be a new single human, and clustered into clusters, and these clusters have characteristics, and all these surplus souls attaching to human beings’ bodies ever since human beings bodies showed up on earth.
But, it’s the “soul” that is the earlier similar conceptual problem.
If soul, then “body-thetans” and thus that leaves open the door for the Xenu narrative for why there is so many still to this day “body-thetans” (surplus souls with mentally degrading and debilitating effect) on humans on earth today.
And thus, from this simple general narrative explaining why so many surplus cluster of “body-thetans” infesting humans today, causing humanity our troubles, that Scientology’s OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 address these surplus souls infesting humanity, Scientologist by Scientologist.
The sci fi details that don’t make sense, just par for Hubbard’s inventive pulp fiction adventure writing mind.
The big general leg that Scientology stands on is the leg that already existed before Hubbard came along. The “soul.”
I was an atheist coming into Scientology and I was a soon to be dropping out philosophy major at Arizona State University, when I mentally gave too much credence to Plato’s idea of the soul transmigrating.
If you give credence to transmigrating souls, then the Xenu story is just a science fiction variation, and it stands on the same leg as the soul transmigration idea that was already thousands of years prevalent on earth.
Sci fi souls transmigration amped up with the Xenu earth dump of “body-thetans” which Scientology charges high fees and is so time consuming to do the Hubbard surplus souls exorcism on the Hubbard OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
The fault lies deeper than Hubbard, I feel, and have all my life. “We” living today, are betrayed by the illogical unscientific beliefs in key powerful building blocks concepts, and the “soul” is one of those concepts.
Scientology is easy to grasp, if you stick to the “soul” narrative, then the Xenu soul dumping story “makes sense”, and that’s why OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 of Scientology’s “upper levels” “makes sense.”
——————–
Near the end, my final years in Sea Org, I “rose” (moved up to fill the vacancy) of computer operations person for Author Services Inc. With the massive amount of twiddle your fingers time on that job, I read a good chunk of Hubbard’s “pulp” stories.
“Fear” is a work that has some harrowing moments in the mind of the “hero” of the story
“One Was Stubborn” was the most important pulp fiction work foreshadowing Hubbard’s founding Scientology.
Hubbard was on a path, and his career writings from the pulps to Scientology, all meld and perfect themselves in Scientology.
If only ALL of the full Hubbard output of private and public writings were available to deep study. As wasteful of someone’s time as that would be, then it would all make “better sense” I concluded.
Wow. What Mike said is so true! They never refute ONE fact! They never prove one accusation or experience is false! They only scream bigotry! That’s the best point of the whole thing. They smear people, and horror of horrors….they use generalities. I thought only SP’s used generalities! Where are the specifics STAND? I actually remember being bamboozled by their generalities in the past. When I didn’t know they were using generalities asa smoke screen, I ended up being confused. Now I can see why after this article. The name calling, the accusations, without any facts or truth in them will confuse anyone until you see what they are actually doing. Great article!
Of COURSE, Tropf Rosemarie!
scientology, and scientologists, are forbidden from self-reflection, lest they discover for themselves the truths that have been hidden from them, that the ‘tech'(niques) don’t work as advertised, but in fact are designed to enslave, not free, just as Tubby wished. What’s surprising is that he was able to pull the wool over so many folks’ eyes, mine included. If he had actually worked as hard to achieve his stated goals, he might have built something valuable.
I’m on record as declaring myself to be an atheist.
https://www.urbin.net/LB/dd.html
Bur I expect to declared a SP or religious bigot by Scientology.
otherles: of COURSE they’ll label you a bigot, and worse. If you’ve ever been with a woman, you’re certainly a wife-beater — even if you’ve never been married. Not apparently believing whole hog what Dwarfenführer® represents is scientology means that you’re an SP, not a hair better than your friendly neighborhood psychopathic serial killer. IF they ever do get control of a society, such will dispassionately be put down like the rabid dogs they resemble.
I’m looking to find someone, or a group that meets, in the Nashville area, of anyone that has left/been excommunicated from the Church. Please reach out to me.
The big list might be useful
https://whyweprotest.wikia.org/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
Also, there are several FB groups where exes and critics hang out together, or groups were FreeZoners unite
You might also ask this at ESMB Redux at https://exscn2.net/
And I’m sure there are lots of other venues as well.
Thank you so much for helping! I really appreciate it! Hopefully, I will be able to find someone in the area.
Linda S: Good luck, but I doubt there was ever enough of a scn presence in all of Tennessee for there to be a cohesive group of exes anywhere in the area.
Thank you so much for responsding! It was worth a try. I needed someone for my daughter to interview for a senior project. Specifically as to why someone would enter into that church, what changed to make them leave, and the repercussions behind it, etc. the information is all on line, unfortunately, she has to interview someone directly.
Thank you again! On a good note, glad to hear there isn’t a big scn presence right now in TN, unfortunately, they seem to be trying to expand out. I’ve heard they are sending flyers into the schools, and with the large influx of people coming in, I’m hoping they don’t grab a foothold.
It is always interesting to read the drivel that we used to trot out “back in the day”. I am stunned that the exact same rationale is still being expounded after all this time. As you so astutely said, Mike – if crticism just makes the organization grow – why is this knackwurst daring to criticize the critics who are doing so much to expand his little clique? Is Seabrook anti-expansion do you think? Does he secretly hold back the desire to damage Scientology? Only several hundred of expensive hours can answer that question methinks!
Oh so nice to hear from you my old friend! “Knackwurst” – perfect 😂
You are doing a helluva job, Mike! Keep up the good work. I enjoy the blog – one of the very few places I check in on about Scientology.
Mick: this one of the few places where you CAN check in to see what the current (real) state of scientology is. Anything within the scientology.com domain is only going to be what Davey-Boy wants people to believe about his tiny little realm.
Thanks Jere, true dat! What I was referring to is that like a lot of exes especially exSO and starting back when ARS started, I would check a lot of sources mainly trying to track down old friends or find out “what happened to”? But now I just check in on Mike’s blog – can get a sense of what’s happening in that ludicrous and vicious cult without wasting a lot of time. Mike is doing an extraordinary job . He’s an old friend – we go back to 1979 so it is great to check in with him from time to time.
Mike, excellent article! One thing I suggest you add is this: Put the date in of when the Times article came out so that people know how many long years it’s been since the church sued a reporter or new agency.
“But not a single one has been filed since Time magazine. That’s the remedy available to you. Why not use it?”
Insert “in 1991” after “…filed since Time Magazine.” Just a suggestion. The article is great.
Cindy, I believe that Davey and his lapdog lawyers learned from the debacles of the most recent suits they have brought. Most, IIRC, have been ended by DM cutting largish checks to stop the haemorrhaging of truth about his tiny little domain.
Jerre, unfortunately you’re right about how he pays off people to drop their lawsuits to stop the hemorrhaging of the truth. I hope none of the women who are suing Masterson for rape and assault drop their cases. If they don’t there is a chance that Masterson will go to jail and also that DM will get deposed. If they can ever find him or do other means of serving him.