Another provocative essay from our old friend Terra Cognita.
Being in Present Time…or not, In Scientology
One of the first courses every new Scientologist does is the Communications Course. The Comm Course consists of seven drills done repeatedly. LRH—some say it was Mary Sue—developed these drills to train auditors to better communicate with their PCs—pre-clears.
Before Scientology, I’d never been exposed to anything to help me comfortably confront and to help facilitate the communication process. Especially with members of the opposite sex. For over a month, I honed these skills sitting opposite my twin (any person doing the same course), really looking at him, confronting him, acknowledging him, communicating in a crisp, confident manner.
During this time, I was introduced to the concept of “present time.”
Being in present time is a big deal in Scientology. A person is nothing if not in PT. Everything a person does inside and out of Scientology depends on his ability to be in present time.
Around this same period, I was introduced to Keeping Scientology Working, LRH’s seminal piece in which he wrote that he was the “source” of all worthwhile “technology” in the field of the mind, and to question his word was equivalent to criminal activity. And thus those questions rumbling around inside my head never really got answered. Instead, they were met by steely-eyed supervisors with the standard question: “What do your materials state?” If something didn’t make sense, it was because I’d gone by a word I didn’t fully understand, had skipped a gradient, or was suffering from lack of mass.
I was taught that looking for answers outside the church was forbidden. Psychology, Eastern religions, and even other philosophies were considered “other practices.” All the answers were contained within the writings of LRH.
Questions, Questions, and More Questions
Questions about confronting and present time plagued me long after the Comm Course.
Did being in PT mean I needed to be comfortably looking at someone or something without thinking of anything else?
Did remembering an incident in the past mean I was no longer in PT? Even for that short while?
Did I have to somehow “quiet” my mind to a point where I had absolutely no thoughts in order to be in present time?
Could I think about something and still be in PT? Come up with an answer to a problem? Even while walking around on a sunny day with lots of space all around me?
Could I mock up images in my mind and still be in PT?
And of course, where exactly was I supposed to focus my eyes during TR0? (Training Routine 0 was the second drill—I didn’t make up the numbering system—in which two people would sit across from each other, their knees usually touching, and just look at each other until they felt comfortable and in present time.
All these questions. So few answers.
The “Hard” TRs Course
The next gradient in learning to communicate effectively was to do a Hard TRs Course. Several different variations of this course have been offered over the years, but basically, they all involve repeating the original seven training routines followed by a half dozen others having to do with increasing one’s ability to “control bodies.”
If I thought I had questions before, imagine my horror when I learned that in order to pass the course I had to complete a two hour TR0! That’s right. I was required to confront a twin for two whole hours! Doing anything else but comfortably staring into the face of the person opposite me was a flunk and meant starting all over again. More questions invaded my mind.
What if after an hour of sitting in a hard chair, my attention went to my sore ass? What if my attention was diverted by others in the course room? What if I became aware I was hungry? What if I suddenly remembered I had to change the oil in my car? What if I thought the person sitting across from me was pretty? What if I blinked? Was there a maximum number of blinks that were acceptable? What if my focus fell to my twin’s chin? OMG!
Short of sleeping, there is nothing in life I can comfortably do for two hours. Without moving! Without blinking! Without readjusting my sore lower back and my stiff fucking neck!
I eventually was able to sit there for the whole two hours and passed the drill and all the others and attested to completing the course. Confession: During the “long confront,” I blinked; random thoughts entered my mind; my attention got diverted—more than once; and my body was not at all comfortable after the first fifteen minutes.
Had I falsely attested? And if so, had this contributed to a dwindling spiral of lies that led to my eventual disaffection and desertion of the church?
Auditors, Present Time, and TRs
In training to become auditors, Scientology has taken TRs to a whole other level. In their push to make auditors better able to communicate with their PCs, much of the humanity that allows therapy to take place has been drilled out of the auditor. Unwittingly, Scientology has created less human and less effective auditors. It’s almost as if confronting and being in PT means not displaying empathy or sympathy or kindness, really any kind of feeling except some emotional variation of “conservativism” or “mild interest.”
I know, I know, this doesn’t describe all auditors. Many are great. Some could have been the offspring of Mother Teresa. That said, the vast majority who sat on the other side of the meter from me lacked much warmth, especially those at advanced orgs. Judging by the number who’ve left the church, I wasn’t the only one.
The Survival Rundown – The SRD
I’ve written about the SRD at this blog but suffice to say, the rundown is all about “being in present time.” According to the church’s leader, David Miscavige, no one, not even OT8s at the very top of the Bridge, were sufficiently in PT, and thus, everyone has been required to spend hundreds and hundreds of hours doing drill after drill, day after day, week after week on this new course/auditing action/objective processing. With essentially the same purpose on every drill: to get a person in PT.
But wait. Hadn’t I already achieved this state? Hadn’t I already spent hundreds of hours doing TRs and other drills with this very purpose? Had I actually been out of PT for the last thirty-five years? Completely oblivious? Stuck somewhere in the past? Operating on automatic? OMG 2.0!
Apparently there were degrees of being in present time, different levels of PT-ness. I’d thought that being in PT was like being pregnant. You either were or you weren’t. Wrong again, Terra!
What do your materials state!
Last Words
So, good readers. What do you think? What’s the deal with present time? Are you in it? Can you really be anywhere else?
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
In Buddhist meditation, as I am sure you are aware, much is placed on the idea of coming back to the now. I have spent last 8 years practicing and it is quite peaceful when it’s attained…. All too briefly
I just want to add, I’m glad I did do Pro TRs (twice at Flag), particularly the bullbaiting. I was training to be an auditor and being young, inexperienced, naive and somewhat attractive and very caring and interested being, I had no idea what I was going to be hearing in session. Sitting in session, hearing some of the things I did, had I not been drilled/practiced heavily/buttons flattened on some of this stuff, I would have probably blushed or started laughing or started to cry or panicked and wanted to run screaming out of the auditing room.
Being able to comfortably listen to some of the things I heard is a skill every counselor in any field should have. It’s certainly helped me be a better mother in communicating with my kids without my face going contorted.
I wonder if there is some kind of training out there that deals with this kind of stuff? Anybody know?
Let me clarify that: I wonder if there is some kind of (NON-CULT) training out there that deals with this kind of stuff? Anybody know?
Like OT, there is exists present-time as fantasy role playing.
Wow – very complex issue here. I guess many of y’all were doing something different than I was on the TRs Course (did more than one of them in my 35 years as an auditor including Pro TRs at ASHO).
First I have to say that, yes, when the “blinkless TR0” first came out, that was really nuts. Eventually that fact became clear and was changed to the better.
I had great wins on almost all the TRs. Yeah, TR0 is a workout …. tough to get through … so what?
The more one can be there comfortably in ANY area of life, the better one will be AT that activity. And the more confident one will feel while doing it. The more YOU can be there comfortably, the better you will be at a job interview, giving a talk, driving a car, playing a sport, having sex, playing a musical instrument, dealing with another person who is very upset or emotional, cooking a meal, doing ANY job … need I go on? (and to really BECOME good at something, including being there, you need to work at it, like anything else in life)
When I learned at age 20 to finally be able to listen to and acknowledge my emotionally disturbed father … guess what? … we were actually able to communicate for the first time the last five years of his life.
I had three co-audits with friends in the 1970s. We were all very good Cl IV auditors and we were natural and “real” in session, not stiff or devoid of humanity. Yes, we smiled and even laughed sometimes, and we all had very good wins as pcs too.
And by the way, I know live in a country, where the ethnic is that you do NOT lose your temper when your buttons are pushed, you will REALLY be looked down upon if you and not welcomed as someone to be around. You know, life bullbaits you, nothing wrong with practicing the skill of being able to control your responses. A great life skill to have.
I’d like to add that the way I judged (and still do) the writings/ideas of Scientology has nothing to do with past lives, “soul flying” or getting rid of body thetans.
My major purpose in getting into Scientology at age 19 was to strengthen my ability to INTEND and make happen what I wanted to in life, in every area. I wanted to be able to effectively create my own life, and not be fearful or depressed while engaging in that pursuit (or get stuck in the inevitable losses of life) Of course, much of this dealt with not only strengthening my own postulates as a being, but in learning how to deal with other people more effectively.
I wanted to have MORE COURAGE in life, more ability to face life head on and take it on successfully, but even if unsuccessfully, at least to proceed boldly and less afraid.
I didn’t achieve every goal I had and yes, of course, I was tremendously disappointed that Scientology evolved into a Soviet style fascist organization which extorted money for awareness and aimed to control every part of a person’s thoughts and behavior. Yes, and that is why I left ten years and would never return under any circumstances. And I no longer agree with an amount of LRH’s ideas, mostly policy, but some red on white as well.
I would have easily forgiven LRH his own human weaknesses if he hadn’t of always taken those weaknesses out on others in order to dominate them in all sorts of weird ways. His lack of self awareness, considering what he himself wrote about service facs and O/Ws is indeed staggering. And because of that lack, many people have suffered.
But I have never and will never invalidate my OWN wins and growth as a being. Why? Those are all in the “good category” of life …. along with … well, y’all know …baseball and jazz and pumpkin pie and affectionate people and ….
I’m totally with you on that, Joe. I feel the same way about what I did gain from being involved. Fortunately, I left with my family in tact, back in 1999.
The early 70’s 2-hour blinkless TR 0 was difficult to achieve and not necessary to becoming a good auditor. But it wasn’t nuts. It could be done. I did it, and so did most others on course with me at the time.
The story of why Alice In Wonderland was used,
“The first four TR’s, 0,1,2,3 and 4.
We had an indoctrination instructor, Rosina Mann, who I hired and she was a recent HPA graduate and I
thoroughly got her to understand what was expected. And the students when they came onto the HPA
course would first of all do a week of indoctrination, to do their TR’s and it worked out absolutely
marvelously. An interesting sidelight on it, TR 1, now known in Scientology and known universally as dear
Alice TR 1, I can tell you where the Alice in Wonderland came from in TR 1… I wandered into the indoc
room one day to see how the course was going and there they all were sitting reading, trying to do TR 1,
originate communications, reading out of a newspaper. It didn’t sound a bit right to me reading the stock
market reports and economic forecasts and so forth, it didn’t sound a bit right to me. So I thought to
myself, my God, they need something better than that to communicate. They need something up tone.
Now, what’s the most up tone book I know… Alice in Wonderland! So I went down to the local bookshop
and nosed around and got some cheap copies of Alice. Sure Sir! I bought half a dozen copies on the spot,
reclaimed the money out of petty cash and dumped them on Rosina’s desk and said, for God sakes stop
using those newspapers. Use the Alice in Wonderland. Use the words, delete the “he saids” and “she saids”
and just use the phrases from Alice in Wonderland. There’s some beautiful phrases in that book. And it took
on like wildfire, Alice. The students perked up immediately. They loved Alice. They really would
communicate those, those beautiful phrases from Alice in Wonderland,” off with his head!” you know.
Beautiful, beautiful up tone phrases in Alice! And that was my own contribution to TR 1, was the Alice in
Wonderland.”
http://www.antology.info/files/transcript2.pdf
If it didn’t work the first time you did it and they say it was flawed materials, shouldn’t you be able to get your money back? As opposed to when YOU did not Do the work correctly. Reediting and repackaging the tech, isn’t that saying we sold a dud product to begin with?
Mike do you feel that Scientologist are told how to vote, of do they have the right to make up there own mind?
I was probably in present time but didn’t know it until I did the Comm Course. One of bests things I ever did.
Personal confession here, just between me and you. I absolutely could not stand being in present time when I was in Scientology because it reminded me of the fact that I was in the company of incompetent criminals and morons. Oh. Now I did it. I spilled the beans because I forgot this is a public blog and everybody just read what I wrote to you. 🙂
I don’t know that it’s changed but ‘hard tr’s’ were known as Pro Trs, these were followed by a separate course called Upper Indoc Trs, these two were part of the line up for auditor training.
You could do other lower level courses such as the Success Through Communication Course for Div 6 (new people) or Tr’s & Objectives, which is probably now the SRD.
Pro Trs were not fun, I did them three times, my lasting memory (other than a sore ass) is how weird the other person’s face started to look as you continued to stare at them, it was as if it changed over time, and I kept wondering if they were thinking the same about me.
As someone who day dreams a lot I did struggle to keep my attention on what was basically a very tedious routine. I’d be sitting there with my mind wandering and have to snap myself back to what I was supposed to be doing before the sup spotted something was up.
I did the Pro TRs twice. Once in 1989 or ’90, and again in the late ’90s. I did the ridiculous 2 hour confront twice. I am convinced it’s just another way to control people. I hated it, but I had to toe the line, so my family wouldn’t cut me off. I definitely would not recommend.
So long as I’m 10,000 year plus or minus, I’m okay.
Dan,
You were closely associated with the Auditor Beingness issue, you were there during its compilation and knew its history.
Have there been any soul-flyers OT 8 Scientologists steller beings ever made of Hubbard’s soul-flying soul therapy?
I guess if the whole operation got better results, then various training methods to make improved
soul-therapists makes sort of sense.
But it’s kind of soul-snipe-hunting to me today. No one is getting that pot at the end of the Bridge, and LRH let himself off the hook by going out to do OT research, namely the OT running program, which ironically is soul-flying in large circles the the running in circles Cause Resurgence Rundown at the Superpower building is the earth version of the rundown (runnning in circles rundown) that LRH is doing, supposedly in outer space as we speak. Wonder who LRH’s Running Program In Charge is, or is he running this all solo on himself, case supervising himself again, such a no no.
Based on the WHY TRS movie theory, LRH needs a sounding board person to help get LRH out of his own case, LOL.
Chuck, it occurs to me that some may not know what you are talking about when you mention “Snipe-hunting”. If you were never in the Boy Scouts you may not have ever gone snipe hunting, so here is a little explanation: There are lots of somewhat cruel but hilarious tricks that are traditional in the scouts for the Tenderfeet (new scouts). On your first campout, standing around the campfire, you may complain that the smoke is getting in your eyes. The older scouts will glance furtively at each other, smile, and say “Go to the trailer where all the equipment is stored and get the smoke-shifter. Its in the same bin as the left-handed monkey wrench and the sky hook.”
If a large number of new Tenderfeet have joined, or it has been a while since the last snipe-hunt and few know the trick, some of the older boys will start talking up a Snipe-hunt. We once did this on a joint campout with the Civil Air Patrol. None of them knew the trick, and we had a hilariously good time with them because they were so sincere about it and believed us so thoroughly. At any rate, there really is a bird called the snipe and there may be ways to hunt it but other than that the snipe hunt is pure fiction.
The way you do it is you go out in the woods with a paper bag and a flashlight. You shine the flashlight into the bag and call out “Snipe! Snipe! Snipe!” as you wander in the pitch black woods at night. The snipe are supposed to come running and jump into the bag.
Meanwhile all the scouts in the know are laughing their fool heads off at you. Eventually you come to realize that you’ve been had and wander back sheepishly to the campfire.
Scientology is a big crazy snipe hunt, started by a few really cruel elders in the know, and going on far longer than would seem to be possible. Lots of folks are still wandering around in the dark yelling “snipe! snipe!” long after the elders have packed up their sleeping bags and gone home. But they are never going to catch that soul-snipe, time to wake up and wander back to the campfire where their family and friends are waiting.
Snipe-hunting, I was a sucker and did it on several camping outings, and I was out so late, still waiting for my snipes, everyone had gone to sleep. dumb me, I went to bed thinking I’d failed, LOL. I didn’t get any snipes in the scouts, and my 27 years in Scientology I didn’t even reach OT 3 to learn of the Hubbard “body-thetans” (Scientology’s “snipes”) so I left Scientology also feeling a failure due to I didn’t get any “body-thetans” in Scientology.
Bruce, The snipe-hunt for spiritual enlightenment goodies is a human history co-delusional cultural problem of long duration. In “Prior Confusion” theory terms, really, if one made a joking word salad using Hubbard’s theory to mock the hypocrasy of Hubbard’s nutty theory, one would spend forever joking and degrading the nonsense. Hubbard’s just late on the chain crank crackpot placebo mutterings with the same authority/founder/nventor sheen of legitimacy but only to the undereducated and vulnerable dupes needing what Scientology lies it can fulfill.
Seriously, it tedious to spell out Hubbard’s quack-crank, so tedious that smart outsiders get tired of the details, Hubbard was so prolific in his layers of self-praising authoritative quackery.
I’m surprised Hubbard didn’t cognite he needed to even think bigger than he did. There’s so much details in the good books of recent years, that the general public still don’t know, like the final page of Lawrence Wright’s book still isn’t brought up by anyone, Hubbard’s final despair and thoughts of failure and the OT running program connection to what he said to Sarge. Running in circles, out there, supposedly, to fix himself for his next phase as the big thetan L. Ron Hubbard somewhere else in the cosmos, waiting for us to catch up…..through out own trekking up the Hubbard Quack Ladder to Spiritual Freedom, and doing our own earth bound versions of the OT running program at the Super Power building in Clearwater where they deliver the running in circles rundown (Cause Resurgence Rundown). That is sadly also not really appreciated for the Freudian slip hoisted by his own quackery petard “theory” out of Hubbard’s final months brain.
I ought to write a free online book:
“Scientology, Way Cosmic Funnier-Quackier- Loonier Than You Thought”
and vent all my gripes.
It’s just drills and in the practice of Scientology we do a lot of them! The TR’s are fairly easy once they are understood. Like many other things in training & auditing, you just forge ahead and do it. Don’t think too much about it, (basically turn your brain off), just be there and do what the drill says. And yeah, it does keep you in the present when you’re working through it. Just like other things that require intellectual, visual or hand working skills. I never bought into all the “people are not really there” concept of a hypnotized, asleep, zombie population walking about in the big, bad world outside of the CoS. The training routines were a part to condition us to consider that a very real possibility, and to teach us to uniformly relate to each other. Indoctrination and the practice thereof.
I fondly recall one of my twins joking about having his eyelids surgically removed in order to have blinkless TRO.
maxim46 says
“I fondly recall one of my twins joking about having his eyelids surgically removed in order to have blinkless TRO”.
I can’t stop laughing, damn that’s funny.
I only know of one person who got through that blinkless TRO. Not that Blinkless TRO was the cause but the person in later years committed suicide during OT 3 as the person walked in front of a train.
The person was an Illegal PC but yet allowed to do OT 3.
?so funny
“Being in present time is a big deal in Scientology. A person is nothing if not in PT”.
DM the hypocrite clearly flunks this concept. Guess PT does not apply to sinister COB.
Continual harassment of ex-members/SP’s, enslavement to the hole, making another human being clean a floor with his/her own tongue, smear sites etc. are these not past tense?
<Thank you Terra for this informative article.
Oh my… let’s complicate opening a can of tomatoes. Plenty to get introverted on there.
God help you Terra if you ever had to do basic training in the military. They drill you over and over, and at times with heavy discipline just so you’ll work in co-ordination with others when needed, that is, on command or put more in Scientology terms, in present time. Being human has the consequence of being too individual at times (mind wandering & know best) and not doing what you’re expected to do. Your life one day will probably depend on it, just like Police or essential service training. But not all life actions require that sort of training, thank God! But being an exec in business comes close to really noticing who you have working for you capable of being in PT, especially when the pressure is on or money is at risk.
TRs have been corrupted in Scientology like everything else. That there’s an EP you gain from doing them is bullshit and has been introduced as a control method. TRs are just a tool to handle how one communicates, not why one communicates. I don’t see a problem with them if done with sanity and purpose. I sure wouldn’t want to twin up with you to learn skydiving or scuba work, someone actually demands you listen and obey your instructions when told or indicated by environmental circumstances. Oh boy…
Hear hear!
Im a die hard Pink Floyd fan. Their album from 1977 “Animals” contains a song “Pigs”..The first few lines are..Big man, Pig man Charade you are You well heeled Big Wheel Ha, ha Charade you are…Kinda makes me think of DM…
I Yawnalot: What if we only jumped from a few thousand feet?
LOL too easy. In WW2 the Russian’s didn’t bother with parachutes in low level drops over snow at stall speed. 30% casualties were acceptable.
They actually did that… no joke!
Well, if the overall purpose and ultimate goal of $cn is for you to telepathically exorcise every last one of the imaginary space alien spirits stuck all over you, then anything that makes it easier to believe in that idiotic nonsense must be deemed as insanity-inducing, including TRs, don’t you think?
Sure, doing communications drills like those that you encounter on the intro TRs courses can’t cause much harm in and of itself, but look closely at what is being inculcated in the neophyte Ronbot as he is gradually conditioned to put up with more and more control and other-determinism. If you’ll put up with the basic TRs course, then you’re much more likely to endure the Hard TRs course. And from there, if you haven’t put your foot down yet and asserted your own free will and self-determinism , then let’s really indoctrinate your gullible and passive ass by doing weeks and months of this hypnotic crap on the SRD! By that point, it’s entirely clear that the unstated goal of $cn is nothing more than control over you.
It’s the gradual transition from normal, free-thinking human to programmed Ronbot that makes the long con of $cn so effective. So, the fact that the exact point where you become not you and more under cult control than self-determined is hard to determine just suggests that the scam is well played, not that no brainwashing occurred.
Scn starts out as it means to continue, but the gradual nature of the con and the subtlety with which it’s run on its victims leaves them confused and flummoxed about where it all began to go wrong. The correct response to the question, “Where did it all go bad?” is simply: When you first walked through the door!
There’s logic to what you mention as Hubbard sure did have some whacko ideas in among his stuff. But, once it was also said pretty loudly and clearly marijuana leads to hard drugs, addiction and death. Is that completely true? Enough to severely punish someone caught with a joint? Remember the Reefer Madness days? Tolerance and understanding finally ensued to some degree on that line, but not the big money flows of narcotics so much. One doesn’t see much of the statics of the death and health issues associated with alcohol so much.
A firearm in the hands of a hunter, a policeman and a criminal. Murder by being shot appalls the general public because vivid images are shown on the media – do we now bring conspiracy charges against the CEO of Colt & Winchester as well?
Yes, Scientology indoctrination does horrific things, I have no disagreement with the evidence. But good things are occurring with the exposure of it and the system within the Church has slowed to a crawl as membership has dwindled dramatically. So is everything concerning Scientology still all that evil?
No, it’s not. In fact, $cn is following the path of the malignant/collapsed narcissist right about now. And, while it can still be plenty vicious, the cult is fast-becoming it’s own endangered sub-species, so how evil can you be if you’re in Non-E?
I’m not denying the cult is horrible, I have family still in it and it creates great sadness at times that I have problems with such as Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays etc but personally I saw the hate it develops and it’s just too easy to justify. But I now resent the implications and effect it has on my both mine and my wife’s health and state of mind. Since this blog I have openly “taken on” a few family members and asserted my place as a fellow not to be fucked with. I treat Scientologists no different than anyone else with unreasonable influence upon my life (what’s left of it anyway). I feel a hell of a lot better for it, but like all things it has a price. I will not however condone sillyness and join in on a campaign of it’s all bad, all the time, to everyone. I spent a great deal of my life in that system and I”m entitled to take out of it what i consider useful. I was not SO, which is a blessing,but I do have empathy for ex SO and my door is always open to them, if manners prevail.
Thanks, Inner Space. I had the same questions.
It’s impossible to know if Hubbard was acquainted with tantric yoga but some of its practices employ partnering up with somebody and staring into each others eyes for long periods of time.
The purpose is to experience consciousness as separate from your thoughts and physical body. In scientology it’s called “exterior”.
Tantra has the effect of clearing the mind, that is to say, it causes the mind to slow down or suspend its generating of superfluous thoughts. Without those thoughts the mind experiences the intrinsic bliss of pure consciousness. That is what you are. You experience yourself. That would explain why TR’s can make you feel renewed and energized.
The matter of “present time” is an important topic in a conversation about scientology. Obviously there isn’t anything but “present time”. The concept is a misnomer. The past is nothing but thoughts that appear in the present moment. There is no past. There is only thought and the feelings that arise with the thoughts and that is what we label: “the past”.
What “present time” means in scientology is to not entertain thoughts unrelated to what you’re supposed to be doing. You can accomplish this to varying degrees with sheer determinism but only within limits and for short durations of time. That’s something everybody knows.
We have no control over what thoughts pop into our mind because we only experience a thought AFTER it has appeared. But a sure way to calm the mind down over the long haul is to live rightly and keep your conscience clean. Historically that advice has few if any detractors.
Terra Cognita: “Confession: During the ‘long confront,’ I blinked; random thoughts entered my mind; my attention got diverted—more than once; and my body was not at all comfortable after the first fifteen minutes. Had I falsely attested?”
My understanding is this: Did you DO anything else but simply BE THERE – not, for example, did the body blink, but did YOU (as people sometimes nervously do, for whatever reason). And was it YOU who wasn’t comfortable (thus creating an effect on your body)? And so forth.
Marildi: Nice distinction: me vs. the body. It’s hard to separate the two. You raise good questions.
TC, I give you credit for being able to look fairly at another point of view or at different data, even if it conflicts with what you had thought. And then to admit it is even more commendable. 🙂
So at what point does one realize one may never have understood what was written on the page in the first place? Or heaven forbid, accepted another version of it! Or is it better to condemn it all and then be subject to possible correction later if it’s socially expedient?
Factor 1 ought to have been in the TR Course theory section before doing OT TR0, to me, beginning had to have been the desire to be, and that prior to being moment in the beginning of the universe, that is the Ideal Scene for OT-TR0 and a sort of semi enlightenment moment of consciousness of the desire to be.
I mean, it all depends on how you frame this fricking TRs brainwashing crap discussion.
I took Hubbard’s crap with the enlightenment slant to it all, and to his own theory.
Factor 1 is a giant philosophical consicousness moment to me, that relates absolutely to OT TR0 and TR0.
but, can you get any discussion of even any tiny smattering of this, in tech departments, no one goes there since Hubbard never put his own dots of medicine together theoretically.
Hubbard’ stuff to me, for this type of philosophical griping that I lament “we” in the movement never really did, only the squirrly sort of peripheral Scientologists were squirrelly thinking enough to tie even Factor 1 to OT TR0, so to me, my experience in Scientology was philosophically and intellectually lonely.
But it’s all crap to me today, so I don’t really lament anything.
If I remember correctly, it’s “be there comfortably and confront,” isn’t it?
Most folks who aren’t used to sitting absolutely motionless for long periods of time are going to feel an increasing amount of bodily discomfort when they attempt to satisfy that Hard TRs course culminating requirement of doing two hours straight of TR 0.
The sub-rosa indoctrination that’s going on there has a lot to do with the arbitrariness of it all and the decreasing sense that you have as you continue on in $cn that you can ask about, discuss, disagree with or in any other way not comply with what you’re being told to do. The drill itself is totally beside the point; it’s really about exercising a deeper and deeper level of unquestioning control over folks as they’re being fleeced for more and more cash.
Why not 20 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour and seven minutes? Why must the needle swing back and forth three times for it to be a real F/N? Why must I re-do my clearing level if I still feel perfectly fine about it?
Why, why, why? These questions not only can never be answered (because they’re not based on anything but an arbitrary to begin with), but it isn’t ok to even ask them. And when you eventually become ok with not asking them, and can do uncomfortable and boring shit for hours on end on command and without complaint, then $cn has its product: A thoroughly other-determined individual, who does what he’s told, never questions authority, ponies up the cash every time he’s asked and lies like a rug about the gains he’s achieved without a second thought about it.
HF: “Why not 20 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour and seven minutes?”
LDW, who is tech-trained, answered this already where he said, “Actually, the 2 hour gig is because sometimes sessions would last up to two hours and the point was to ensure the auditor in training could keep his TRs in for that period of time.”
HF: “Why must the needle swing back and forth three times for it to be a real F/N?”
I don’t think that wasn’t written anywhere by LRH.
HF: “Why must I re-do my clearing level if I still feel perfectly fine about it?”
That too isn’t LRH. It’s Miscavige.
As you can see, your “Why, why, why?” is the result of either not knowing the materials yourself, or accepting others’ data – especially DM’s – as valid. This leads to the kinds of cynical conclusions you and others arrive at, even if inadvertently and with no ill will.
It’s a fair point to consider: if you were indeed training to be an auditor, then doing what auditors do during a session – writing, adjusting the e-meter, flipping pages, shifting your gaze as needed – then that might make a lot of sense, but sitting motionless and staring fixedly at anything that is also unmoving will fairly quickly drop many folks into the classic array of sensory deprivation experiences.
So, most folks aren’t training to be auditors when they’re drilled to death on these “Hard TRs/Pro TRs courses and it ends up being more about control than anything else for them. And it’s certainly NOT about training anyone to audit either, because no one actually does it like that. I sure hope folks are bright enough to shift their gaze in order to not go into sensory deprivation mode while they’re in session! The 1000-lifetime $cn stare is scary to behold!
I know that Elron didn’t come up with the two examples that you correctly attributed to lil davey’s rodential behavior, but the reality is that it all came either directly from Elron in all of its pristine and unsullied perfection or lil davey bastardized it. You and I agree that lil davey ran amok in Elron’s carefully crafted $cn alt universe and really fucked shit up. Where we differ is that you think that there actually is something uniquely valuable about Hubbardism that wasn’t completely corrupted to begin with.
So, we both agree that things got lots worse when the tiny tyrant took over, but according to my view, he was just leaning into and accentuating what was already fundamentally wrong with $cn (it doesn’t work as promised and its based on lies) and just dialing up the sadistic violence and psycho-terrorism that came right from the Commodore’s very dark heart itself.
I really don’t think that my views on $cn are overly cynical. Indeed, when you’re met with the sheer volume and size of the lies that Elron has told; the scams he’s run; the valor he’s stolen; the young lives he led away from a real education and career; the way he treated his own family and so much more, it’s near impossible to be too cynical.
HF: “….sitting motionless and staring fixedly at anything that is also unmoving will fairly quickly drop many folks into the classic array of sensory deprivation experiences.”
In addition to what LDW pointed out, another reason for drilling TR0 for two hours is that it takes about two hours of doing nothing but “being there” for an individual to turn on certain manifestations. Once those manifestations/reactions are “flattened,” the person is then able to do the drill for two hours without these things occurring and thus can pass the drill.
The reference for this is in an LRH lecture transcript that the Pro TRs sup showed me one time, but I don’t remember which one. However, you basically pointed to corroborating evidence for its validity, with respect to sensory deprivation (which can be partial reduction of stimuli, as in the case of TRs) experiments. Some of the manifestations that occur on those experiments also describe what happens onTR0 – such as “excessive yawning, drowsiness, and sleeping.” https://quizlet.com/4688168/sensory-perception-flash-cards/
Additional data: “For the first 40 minutes, it is reportedly possible to experience itching in various parts of the body (a phenomenon also reported to be common during the early stages of meditation).” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_deprivation
So it seems that sensory deprivation as well as meditation both support LRH’s reason for having a 2-hour period of drilling TR0.
HF: “And it’s certainly NOT about training anyone to audit either, because no one actually does it like that.”
Of course not – there are all the other TRs: delivering a command or question, acknowledging the pc’s answer, steering the pc back to the process when needed, and/or handling the pc’s origination appropriately. All of these are needed to keep the pc interested in case and willing to talk to the auditor – and each of them rest on the auditor’s ability to “comfortably be there.”
HF: “Where we differ is that you think that there actually is something uniquely valuable about Hubbardism that wasn’t completely corrupted to begin with.”
There are many people who feel they got something valuable. I’m willing to admit not everyone did, but I don’t get that you are willing to admit some did. Or are you?
Of course I am; I’ve said as much to you and to others here on multiple occasions.
Dear HarFrit,
TRs are wallpaper covering over people who out not be therapists, and who only delude themselves and the group deludes itself in this co-delusion that they are good enough soul-therapists if they just do their TRs and do their “basics” (Basic Auditing Series HCOB basics of auditing basics, etc, etc, internships, emeter drilling, the whole tech lineup nine yards is really all wallpapering to make the movement members think their soul-therapist training lineup is legitimate human practice and worthy of paying for with their time and money.)
The bottom line to Scientology to me has always been the factual truthfulness and believability due to scientific provability of Scientology’s major category beliefs. a) Past-lives b)soul-flying c)”body-thetans”, Xenu, thus whole lotta exorcism
If those 3 major things of Scientology are provable, for real, then possibly TRs wallpapering over their fake wannabe soul-crank-therapists, turning them into “auditors” like a Chiropractic College makes Chiropractors, then Scientology kind of makes sense.
But since there’s no proof of past-lives, no soul-flyers convincing anyone at any time in human history and no Scientologists doing it either, and since there’s no proof of the “body-thetans” all over all of us (and no way in hell to prove Xenu), so the subject dies right there, it’s a fake made up joke of a subject.
TRs, and the feeble Hubbard doctrines all tied into the auditor-soul-crank-therapist training lineup, is all bogus peripheral details.
The only saving grace to OT and TR O for me was the tie in to LRH’s Factor 1 theory point about how the decision to be, was the first decision of each of us, at the beginning of anything, for each of us, and that’s the first Factor, the beginning of the universe for each of us.
All time and space nothingness before the decision to be, Factor 1.
But, all the arguing over Scientology by Scientologists gets right into LRH’s rules and regulations and tech theory principles way later on this chain of thought about the big beginning of the universe picture of the Factors’ overall theory of the universe.
Scientology is a crank amateur soul-crackpot-pastlives-therapy practice, and exorcism of the loose cannon “body-thetans” that Xenu caused to rain on earth. So Scientology’s big “services” are the crank pseudo-therapy to rid a person of their past-lives mental/spiritual trauma; and part two of Scientology are the OT levels of which 5 are exorcism of the “body-thetans” that Xenu dumped all over us on earth.
Scientology is a spiritual crank pseudo-therapy-soul-exorcism crackpot self standing self grading operation, built in a business network of franchise corporate connected Chiropractic Colleges, and faking it tax wise as a fake religion.
Love how you put it, Chuck! The three “true tests” of $cn’s incredibly high-bar claims that you named are exactly the ones that seem to me to be the largest and most existentially profound.
Of course, the grandest prize for a $cilon is his Eternity, which could be practically thought of as “continuity of consciousness and memory across lifetimes,” or simply as immortality…which is exactly what Elron failed to demonstrate at the time of his death and in the three decades since his passing.
Indeed marildi, good point. It seems being in the computer screen limelight is just too much of a lure with Scientology under the microscope not to inspect every part of it, controversy being the only objective. Being pragmatic is becoming seen as being more & more combative every day. Soon it’ll be a thought crime just to remember anything except how introverted you should be.
Not everyone wants to remain a victim just because they once did something in, with and concerning Scientology! Exposing the criminals in it, now there’s a better way to go imo.
Yawn, awesome comment. The pendulum needs to swing back a ways, or we defeat our purposes – all of them. IMHO
$cn is not a religion that got hijacked by criminals and subverted by a sadistic tyrant, it’s been a sham religion, born of tax-dodging necessity, from the start and a criminal fraud operation designed to enrich only one man from its inception.
Exposing the depth of the con and who originally designed it has nothing to do with seeking victimhood; it has everything to do with seeing that all of the lies, all of the abuses and all of the crimes are exposed because that the real history of the cult and the direct consequences of the actions and policies that Elron put in place himself…lil davey just invented new tortures and dialed up Elron’s sociopathy which has run through the cult’s bitter core since the cult’s founding.
You see, to me, having an ongoing attitude like that is simply not healthy if you can’t take your enemy on directly. Tackling what one considers allies of you adversary is fraught with perils as not all of them are allies. Each to own but no one every said life was a even playing field that I recall. I just don’t subscribe to hate as a long term solution.
“What do your materials state?”
Ultimately Scientology materials state…you will keep paying for stuff…even if you have to repeat the same stuff…as many times as necessary until the church is “certain” that they have separated you from any money you might have or might be able to borrow.
After that…when you finally discover that Scientology cannot (and never has) delivered on the larger promises of “Clear and OT” you will be declared and attacked as a down stat.
That is the usual “bridge” from Raw Meat to Total Freedom.
“What do your materials state?”
“What do L. Ron Hubbard’s paranoid prejudices say?” “Stick to Hubbard’s ideas, or be gone with you!”
At least outside world books and media give newbies and interested people a fuller picture of L. Ron Hubbard’s ideas today.
Today newbies can do their homework on L. Ron Hubbard’s.
LRH had another great idea, that outsiders I think would do better to use this Hubbard idea:
“Know before you go.”
Read the critical books on Scientology, and “know before you go” wasting any time in the Hubbard past-lives trauma crank pseudo-therapy and the Xenu’s “body-thetans” dead-aliens-souls exorcism for too much money and time from your life.
Chuck: “LRH had another great idea, that outsiders I think would do better to use this Hubbard idea: ‘Know before you go.’”
“Know before you go” was part of a description of Level 5, one of the lower levels on the State of Case scale, where Level 1 (highest) is an OT, “no track – no charge,” and Level 8 (lowest) is “unaware – pc dull, often in a coma.” Level 5 is as follows:
“Level (5), dub-in—some areas of track so heavily charged pc is below consciousness in them. Level (5) has to be run on general ARC processes. (HCOB 8 Jun 63) He has an uncertainty about everything. He has to figure about everything; HE HAS TO KNOW BEFORE HE GOES, and he has to hide but he knows he can’t hide, and he depends on logic to serve for all of his predictions because he can’t look. (PAB 2) This guy can’t confront it to the degree that if he tries to confront it he makes a picture of it. He’s got a picture of a picture. (SH Spec 2751 6306C18)” (Tech dictionary definition of STATE OF CASE SCALE)
Scientology’s obsession with keeping its members “in present time” is but one weapon in the Tech’s arsenal to keep them from considering too deeply their objective progress in life, both spirtual and material. I would argue there is real value in the ability to live in the moment and not be affected by the past. Indeed, Scientology actually helped me with that. As with all of L. Ron Hubbard’s innovations, however, he tipped the scale into blind obeisance, which I would argue to be the ultimate goal of all those Training Routines.
As for the proper focal point during TR0’s two or usually far more hours of staring contest, it was always the other person’s eyes. At least it was in the 1980s. TR0 is the reason Scientologists stare at you like some freakish alien who has no idea how the human species really works. Unlearning the mile-long stare was a milestone in my return to humanity.
I find so much that I dis agree with in these reflections on Scn that I really wonder some days if I am getting a feed from some other planet.
Where do I begin?
The “Communications Course” used to be b an introductory course in the ’70’s and early ’80s, but was replaced with a shoddy substitute foisted off as “LRH” that was apparently a mash up of the GO’s “reporter TR’s” made fit for raw public…..so it is not a ‘fact in evidence’ that any of the current crop have done actual TR’s, unless they are doing auditor training, and even then I doubt they have any understanding of the “doingness” of TR’s their relation to styles of auditing, and the prohibitions against “comm-cycle additives”, and the underlying foundation of the Auditors Code….without which auditing will not work.
Present time is presented as just one aspect of Time: past, present and future. The basic concept of living in the present (on a self-determined basis) is preferable to living in the past, and that living with a prediction of the future or even in the future was a characteristic of “OT”. But this was Scientology as presented in 1952, where the emphasis was on Theta, and potentialities thereof, and not MEST. When the suggested rejoinder to incredulous comments about time tracks, etc (whether genetic line, or theta line) was “Your criticism is very just. It is all fantasy.” (from LRH, What to Audit, later History of Man, published 1952.) But it was fun….
KSW was a (mis-guided) screed against false reports and altering technology (all workable as previously asserted in same PL) not an ethos per se, but “We would rather have you dead than incapable” does resonate powerfully with people of all stripes, it seems.
Enough. Miscavige is a mad monkey, and his organization is fraudulent and criminal. And those that continue to support this insanity will all inherit the condition they fail to assign. Do not succumb to this worlwide dramatization to “popery” (i.e. let us tell you what to think so you don’t have to look). What was actually said, why, when? Please learn to differentiate. Otherwise it is all A=A
Me? I got some insights and positives from my experiences there, helped a few people, etc….but then I am a declared SP, bitter defrocked apostate, squirrel etc. Your mileage may vary.
Just to be clear — the Success Through Communication Course (a “mash-up”) was/is an LRH course.
That is what I have been told…..;)
Quite true. I worked with a guy who is probably still drinking the kool aid. He worked directly with LRH at Gold on the pilots of this course. He had been a course sup for over 20 years and he didn’t like it either.
The funny thing is that everywhere I’m aware of that it was put in, the basic courses crashed.
Please note: they are still crashed.
TC, I got out right before the big Survival Rundown insanity. Are you saying that they promote the SRD as mostly a way to get the student “back into present time”?
How bizarre. Most of those old objective processes are designed to exteriorize someone. “Opening Procedure by Duplication” is the name of one of them. “Opening” means getting the preclear out of his body. It is all in the old “Creation of Human Ability” book. But now I see pictures of organizations which have special setups with a book and a bottle and two tables. Seemingly they do this for hundreds of hours! A guaranteed route to insanity.
It is a real mark of desperation for Dave Miscavige to be promoting this old 50s stuff instead of releasing OT 9 and 10. He must really not have a clue how to get there from here. All his hopes were on Ray Mithoff remembering something that could be twisted into OT 9 and 10, but the last time I saw Ray he was having trouble stringing two sentences together. A few years in the Hole will do that to you.
Since Dave doesn’t really believe it he can’t come up with something plausible on his own. He thoroughly alienated Pat Broeker and David Mayo, the only others who could have invented something at least believable. So now he is stuck sending the “top of the Bridge” OT VIIIs back to kinder garden with the “SRD”.
Truly it would be raucously laughable if it were not so sad. All those $100,000s, retirement accounts, college funds and reputations sacrificed on the altar of Dave’s vanity.
For those never-ins who don’t know what the heck I am talking about, don’t sweat it. Basically, Scientology is a high control group. Such groups usually have some kind of secret inner knowledge that they sell as a hook to get new members. For some it is meditation, or controlled breathing, others use sleep deprivation or the Bible. This is not an attack on any of those techniques, they can be valid on their own (except sleep deprivation, that is deadly), but a high control group uses them to control members. Secret knowledge, the conspiracy theory, part of the “us versus them” that keeps members glued to the group.
In Scientology the secret knowledge is the Bridge, the idea that you can reach higher spiritual states by following the practices of Scientology.
Unfortunately the Bridge is out. Hubbard never finished it So it is a broken promise. He seems to have actually been involved in the steps up to OT VII. OT VIII is apparently based on his notes. But he died before he could “release the true OT levels”, the ones where you actually make ash trays rise in the air and communicate telepathically etc.
They told us he was doing an advanced level that could not be done in a body, and so “dropped” it (committed suicide). If so, Scientology is a suicide cult that will eventually demand that all its members “drop their bodies” to go on “up the Bridge”. Fortunately this is a very big lie and Hubbard actually died of natural causes. Since he has not returned to share the results of his “advanced levels” we can safely assume they are not real.
But he left the Bridge in such a mess that the current leader has to send all the “highly advanced” members back to 1950s style Scientology just to give them something to do. And all to “get them into present time”? What a joke. What about getting them up to “Cause over Life Matter Energy Space and Time”? A cynical and jaded person could come to the horrendous conclusion that the Bridge just doesn’t work.
Thanks for the insights. The one thing that I most have trouble understanding is when all the upper level management people were put in ‘the hole’ and so there were maybe 50 high level long-time dedicated Sea Org members all in there… why didn’t anyone look around and say to the others “Something here is wrong, if all of us are ‘bad’ and in here, and there is one person alone who decided this and is responsible for doing this to us…” I wonder why people wouldn’t say “You there, I know you have been dedicated and hard-working for 20 years, I’ve worked beside you and seen your loyalty and commitment to our cause, and you the same, and you, and you too, and I know that I have devoted my life to Scientology… why are we here? How can all of us be termed bad, instead of the one person who did this to us… he should be in here, not us.” This always perplexes me, and I would really like to know what keeps people in there, blaming themselves and the others, instead of turning their attention to COB?
TJ, I was never personally in the Hole so possibly I shouldn’t attempt to speak for those who were. But there was a bit of the “frog in the boiling pot of water” analogy to this. At first the double-wide trailers were just temporary quarters. Up until the early 90s the CMO INT, ED INT etc. were in the two story hotel unit known as Del Sol. Then they decided to convert that to auditing rooms for everybody. So they set up the double-wide trailers as a temporary office space.
The trailers were actually pretty nice at first. There is a reception area, individual offices and a conference room with A/V setup in one trailer, the other is set up as an open office space with dividers and a large shared area.
At that time it was not called “the Hole”, it was just the offices of the senior management.
When Dave Miscavige took over, he immediately took steps to consolidate his power. But at first it was not completely dictatorial. The events of the late 80s and through the early 90s included the executives. You would have Marc Yager explaining one subject, Guilllaume LeSevre another. Dave always opened the events and closed them, and took the lion’s share of any important new announcements. Events like the “War is Over” IAS victory were all Dave. But others, even Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun, were allowed on stage with him to give the appearance that there was some kind of command structure.
But behind the scenes he was chipping away at the dignity and influence of the others. He was always full of carping criticism of their speeches. I remember events at the Freewinds where he filmed the executives doing renovations then played it back at high speed at the last event (which is never broadcast). This was a “blooper video” and it also had all the mistakes they made during rehearsals. The public at the events laughed along with Dave but I can’t imagine anyone had any respect for the “International Management Team” after seeing something like that.
This got worse after the Lisa McPherson episode, late 90s. One Freewinds voyage ended with all the executives in the bilges of the Freewinds. Dave made it clear that he was the one with the power and they were just window dressing.
Finally Dave cut the others out of the events completely. Now they are all Dave all the time. But still he held out hope that if they could solve certain problems or come up with a decent plan he would get behind it and they would emerge victorious. There is a large list of these items that must be completed to redeem those in the “Hole” and it is constantly changing. It is a bit like the Myth of Sisyphus, where the condemned must roll a rock all the way to the top of a hill to be freed. But something always happens on the way up the hill and the rock rolls down again.
Dave used all the usual psychopathic tricks to get his way with the International Management team. Besides denigration, threats and psychological warfare he also used Scientology standard issue mind control. But he took it to lengths never seen outside the International Base. Where outside the Base you may get a Sec Check to find your evil crimes that are making you doubt the Founder, in the Hole you are screamed at by the entire group to confess. Check out the “Musical Chairs” incident in Marc Headley’s book “Blown for Good”. Or Debby Cook’s testimony.
Probably those in “the Hole” are thoroughly convinced that they are at fault, that they “pulled in” everything that has happened to them. If you pulled up in a squad car and offered to haul them out of there they would say “No officer, we are just having a meeting to coordinate international strategy of the Church of Scientology. No prisoners here.”
I have heard that there is no official “Hole” anymore, that the executives are meeting in the RTC building or somewhere else and that they are allowed to sleep in beds now. But you can be certain they have no actual power or influence. According to the IAS agreements that allowed the tax exempt status there are supposed to be checks and balances on Dave’s power. So he will never let them go. But he will also make sure they can never threaten his authority in any way.
Perfect summary Bruce. Thank you for taking the time.
Bruce,
Have you ever posted about how you wiggled your way out of the labyrinth and finally stepped out of the rabbit hole on the fringe of San Jacinto? That would be enlightening to hear about. How much of your insight is from hindsight and how much was bubbling to the surface until you decided to bolt?
I’ve told my story in comments, mostly at Tony’s site, but since my account there is private and under another name nobody is very likely to be able to find it. One of these days when I’m retired and don’t have to worry so much about my reputation I could publish it on ESMB or something just so it isn’t lost. I’m in Marc Headley’s book.
When I was in I knew something was wrong but had no idea what it really was. The only way to understand it is to read up on your Steve Hassan, Rick Allen Ross and Jon Atack. In retrospect it is pretty obvious but when you are in it there is no little straw of truth to hold onto as you spin out of control in the maelstrom.
It is funny to read some of the other comments yesterday and today. Like some folks who decided it was cool to eat entire birthday cakes and all got sick.
One says “I think it was the spangly frosting decorations that made me throw up” and another says “No, it was the green frosting, I read about that in Peter Pan” and the other says “You guys have it all wrong, it is the green CAKE that made us all toss our cookies” and another says “Well my cake was not green, it was a carrot cake and the first few bites were great but then I got queezy. I think it’s all in how fast you eat it”.
You want to scream: “Hey come on guys, you just ate an entire birthday cake! With tons of sugar and fat! It is not the green sprinkles!”
It is the high control group and the techniques of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder sufferer that founded it that make Scientology a horror of the 20th century. Not the little details.
But it is good to discuss the details, they bring the bigger picture into sharper focus.
Thanks Bruce, that is the best explanation I’ve ever read. I can see how over time, the power was shifted, and the members became less able to stand up for themselves. I appreciate your taking the time to answer, and I hope your life is going well these days. – T.J.
It’s an excellent question which points up how deep and insidious mind control can be and how strong the bars one can erect in the prison of your own belief.
What is even more astonishing about the situation that you describe is that Elron himself diagnosed exactly what was occurring when large numbers of staff are being declared, demoted and fucked with until they quit. The real SP there is the person in charge who’s risen to a position of power and is now using that power to suppress $cn and harm $cilons.
It’s all there, spelled out in very specific detail, and not at all hard to see how it directly applies to lil davey and his action in consigning the entire upper management echelon of the cult to The Hole either. Why folks didn’t band together and overthrow the evil little fuck when they actually had Elron behind them just speaks to the craven and cowardly sort of being that you must become in order to stay in $cn long enough to have that happen to you.
And while acquiescing to your own mistreatment is horrible enough, subjecting others to psycho-terrorism and physical assault at the command of a truly sadistic bully is essence of evil itself. Why don’t these poor fools escape and put and end to it? Perhaps it has to do with feeling like you don’t deserve to be treated like a human after you’ve treated others so inhumanely yourself.
I truly enjoyed the series and these essays and comments. I am nor ever will be part of this cult.
Demanding everyone be in PT is another way to control you. If Misgavics (sorry, every time I see his name I think ‘miscarriage’) were a true Scientologist he wouldn’t need to have anyone retake the OT levels, because those are ‘in the past’. LRH would be no longer in anyone’s mind because he’s in the past. If someone offends the all powerful Misgavics it would be forgotten since it’s in the past.
Scientology is so full of contradictions. All dictators or cult leaders are themselves the worst representation of what the force on others.
I think ‘present time’ focus is pretty good for productivity and meeting goals, not to mention effective in communication. Not so good for independent thinking though since it can negate understanding of what brought you to this place and prevent critical and anticipatory planning for the future. This feels like one of those things Scientology does where it puts a known therapeutic technique on steroids so rather than being a beneficial coping mechanism it becomes a control tool. Doesn’t feel like Scientology holds much value in a ‘happy medium’.
I’m working my way up to past present.
I’m now in super PT. In this state I can fly around the universe, leaving my body at home. When someone knocks at the door, I automatically know who it is. I can read the minds of people walking past me. I can knock the hat off of someone at 30 paces. Basically, I can rule the world. Although I still get colds…..
An interesting article, Terra.
When I got into Scn in 78, my confront was terrible, as far as people was concerned. When I went into a McDonald’s I would sit facing a wall so I would not have to confront anyone. It was a big win for me to be able to confront people. It is what made me a Scientologist. I joined the SO and was soon on my STD. It went OK but soon bogged. I received a correction list from a good auditor. What came up in response to the question “Has anyone told you that these processes are unnecessary” was simply ” LRH”. I thought “Shit, I cannot tell the auditor that; that I was passed by LRH, he would never believe it, I hardly believe it myself” But the meter was still reading until I eventually coffed it up. Folder went back to the C/S and instead of being sent to ethics, I was sent to attest! Truth is certainly stranger than fiction.
(Continued) I did PRO TRS twice, once in 85 at Flag and the last time in 99 on the ship. By this time I had advanced AIDS although no-one knew it. The fatigue was so bad I could not sit in a chair with my eyes closed for 60 seconds without passing out. I ended up spending 400 hours on OT TRO. Another 200 hrs on TRO. I had tremendous cogs on a lot of subjects and basically had to learn (the hard way) to separate myself from my body because the body was not about to confront anything other than a coffin.
This BS about how OTVIIIs have to do thousands of hours of objectives to be in PT is just DM pushing his own case off on others. He must be scared shitless of Scientologists after all of the scams run on them. The big lie about LRH death alone would have made me suicidal if I had done that.
“The big lie about LRH death alone would have made me suicidal if I had done that.”
Sure, but you’ve got a conscience, so even the thought of telling lies that big and that damaging to thousands would have kept you from doing it in the first place.
You’re completely unlike lil davey, who positively lives to abuse others, especially when that kind of sick fun can be enhanced by getting his evil minions to abuse each other on his command and they all end up believing that they actually deserve it, instead of turning on him en masse, like any sane group would in a hot second.
Why rank and file $cilons can’t see straight through to the very dark heart of the matter there is beyond me, but it’s definitely a question worthy of intense study because the phenomena is hardly unique to $cn.
Please change “STD” to “SRD”..
in that context, “STD” made a certain sense, but thanks for clearing that up.
If a person has no affinity for others, and won’t let them into his reality, he’s obviously out of communication with them. People who do TRs courses and end up as blank-faced, unemotional robots simply haven’t finished the drills. They are “confronting with” blankness and self-control. They have uncreated some thoughts and feelings that were previously in the way of real contact with their drill twins, but have not taken the next step of actually contacting those other people, being-to-being, with unsuppressed affinity and reality. They are “hiding in plain sight.” Of course this makes them terrible auditors, as it is the 2-way actual contact, full-fledged with affinity and reality, that makes auditing work. The problem is not with the TR drills. It’s with the low-toned, unaware, admin-over-tech way in which TRs courses are delivered in COS.
Lol.
And all of the 100 million people that were murdered by Communist governments were murdered because the governments weren’t doing “real” Communism.
Scientology is a failed subject.
More Scientology…or doing Scientology “correctly”…will not fix the failure.
The foundational ideas (including the State of Clear) of Scientology as described in Book One…are lies.
No amount of auditing, training or anything else will create the Homo Novis promised in Scientology.
Those qualities are not repressed by engrams, BT’s or anything else.
Those qualities simply do not exist.
And it does not matter how much money one has…you cannot buy the “product” of a hoax…because that product IS the hoax.
You make good sense. Maybe more than 2 🙂
You are living proof My 2 Cents that benevolent Scientology can occur outside of Scientology.
Now that is a mind bender:
You can better find truth outside of the organization that claimed to teach it.
But that sense is alloyed, in my view, by the space opera stuff.
Yes, My 2 Cents. The tech is SO great it is all but incomprehensible. We know ALL about the No True Scamologist logical fallacy too.
L. Fraud structured the tech reasoning to be a study in circulus in probando. He did that because the “tek” doesn’t “werk” and he needed to keep people running in circles trying to “fix” the PC or student who wasn’t getting “gains” without the staff figuring out the scam.
No kidding! And whenever the super theta-gasmic tech failed to achieve the 100% standardly achievable results that had been promised, guess what the reason always is and forever will be for that bad outcome? Yep, that’s right…YOU’VE GOT CRIMES and lots of them too!
Funny thing is in $cn, both Elron and DM were the ones who committed the really huge crimes, but set it up so that they’d never have to confess them. Why still-in $cilons can’t seem to wrap their minds around what a true sociopath looks like when he’s right in front of them, not even pretending to hide, is beyond me.
What would lil davey the tiny tyrant actually have to do for it to finally become clear to all that the only real SP in $cn is lil davey himself?
HP: Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the state of “theta-gasism” 50,7 on the Tone Scale?
I find it interesting and telling that except for Brian the responses to my comment contained nothing about the actual point I made.
Yep Harpoona, it is ALWAYS the fault of the person. Never the “tek”.
Hi Terra, I a m jumping in here because your interpretation of the so called TR 0 appears to be unnecessarily complicated when in reality it’s very simple.
The concept of being in “PT” simply means being where you are when you are. It means being alert and focused on what you are doing, whether you are crossing the road or chopping onions in the kitchen, without being distracted. Otherwise one could get runover by a bus or one could accidentally chop one’s fingers.
I am an old ex Flag Management Evaluator and know full well the value of “being in PT”. Had I not been fully aware and focused on my job when I was analysing data and statistics when doing evaluations and carrying out missions, I would have been a complete failure and would have spent most of my time in the RPF.
I am not defending Scientology here. I am a happily declared and expelled SP from 1981? but I needed to say that when it comes to the original Comm Course, I will hallways defend it as a valuable tool I have been successfully been using since I left the fold over 30 years ago. To recap, to me, “being in PT” means being fully alert and focused on whatever I am doing, whether it is a conversation or a task big or small.
Just sayin’
Not quite focused when it come to predicted text. Hallways instead always. Oops.
Alex: I loved the original Comm Crs I did way back when. I too, had great wins. It was probably the best course I ever did in Scientology.
I agree: simpler is better.
I recall the bulletin on TR0 saying the purpose was to train the student to BE THERE comfortably and HOLD A POSITION and not do anything else. I achieved that state/ability after 4 years of drilling. It was phenomenal. My perception of the world around me was crystal clear and I knew without a doubt that I was holding a position in the physical universe for the first time ever. Actually being in a location (the street I walked along). I could see minuscule details of things that were many blocks away. “Vision” was absolutely clear and everything was totally REAL. Years later I discovered the materials on TR0 were changed to remove the reference to holding a position and many supervisors at even the most advanced org would have blank stares when asked about achieving that state on their courses today. I left and never looked back.
As I recall, the instructions to TR0 were to merely sit comfortably and perceive. Nothing was stated as far as I can recall about what to think. “Holding a position in space” is a thought, an idea imposed upon “sitting comfortably and perceiving”. Therefore it wouldn’t part of TR0, it is a form of self-suggestion.
Also, what does it mean to “hold a position in space”? That requires explaining because it makes no sense otherwise.
Glenn: “I recall the bulletin on TR0 saying the purpose was to train the student to BE THERE comfortably and HOLD A POSITION and not do anything else.”
I recall that it was OT-TR0, rather than TR0, that was changed from the original TRs bulletin. It stated that the purpose of the drill was to BE THERE AND CONFRONT – and in the revised bulletin was changed to just BE THERE.
What you say does makes sense, though, because to simply BE THERE would essentially mean the same as HOLD A POSITION, and it would probably be helpful to have that pointed out.
While I agreee that the drills sound like meditation, there is one major difference – meditation sessions as a rule are limited to a duration of a half-hour or so. It is stressed that to do more at one sitting is potentially dangerous. It seems that the actual goal of the two-hour session is to diminish one’s capacity, perhaps as an extension of Hubbard’s overarching goal of mind-control.
Actually, the 2 hour gig is because sometimes sessions would last up to two hours and the point was to ensure the auditor in training could keep his TRs in for that period of time.
Where it does become insane is when you are drilling by “staring” instead of just “being there comfortably.”
Also, stupid, arbitrary flunks from ignorant, sadistic coaches and/or supervisors drives a person nuts and usually he suppresses his anger or resentment.
Simple, honest questions do not have simple honest answers in the material and the supervisors can only robotically parrot their inane, “what do your materials state?” This also drives a student into blind obedience or out the door. 95% choose the door.
It’s actually kind of cool when you can see the PC, the Meter and the worksheets all at the same time comfortably. But a fixed stare is actually unnerving and very unnatural. And that is largely how the current batch of students are indoctrinated.
I still think a lot of valuable material came out of the scientology experiment. But when there is no room to really dig in and criticize when needed or wrestle with concepts and throw them out when obviously unworkable or false, then the subject becomes what it currently is.
Exactly, LDW. I understood that purpose when I did Pro TRs. But you won’t be sitting in a session with someone staring at them for 2 hours, so it’s totally arbitrary to have to do so in comm drills. Whatever, huh? As with most of the tech and admin, it includes MUCH ado about nothing.
Well said.
Good Morning All. Another concise piece Terra Thank you. As for PT when in Sea Org,one recall that can still give me chills, was being screamed at by my Dept Head to Come Up To Present Time especially Thurs before 2:00pm. Not good. As to TRs I did them every day during Fdn study time,hard TRs and the thrill of being bullbaited. I always ended up laughing because my partners mimicked me perfectly, but of course flunk you blinked kept me at it longer than most.lol. The thing is I now see TRs as driving me more into that robotic totally non human reaction and emotion state where the chains of the Tech the punishment side,dwells. I became so beaten down it was as if I had to rip myself from TRs to escape in 1978. I archive all your posts. ❤️
Oh, yes, Ann, bullbaiting! Mimicking was a favorite tactic to get a reaction in my Org, too. Fun times!
Yes Terra, we know from science that we are ALWAYS “in present time”. L. Fraud Tubbolard, having been an utter failure at science and math obviously could not figure that out. Hence, lots of useless “tech” foisted off on people as being science.
If one looks with a critical eye at his “tech”, one finds it is all built on a foundation of bullshit. It is a house of sand held up by brainwashing, punishment and human rights violations.
Well, sure! Because ‘Now’ is all we have! Now is.
Exactly OSD. Scamologists STILL confuse THINKING about something that happened in other time with BEING not in the here and now. It is part of the brainwashing to convince them that they need “fixing”.
The circular reason about the reason the “tek” didn’t “werk” goes like this: (there are MANY permutations, this is just one example)
1) The reactive mind is the reason people do bad things and commit crimes and so Dianetic auditing fixes that.
2) The reason the PC didn’t get “case gain” from Dianetics is because he is bad and commits crimes.
I have mixed feelings about TRs. I was on the Communication course for 6 months at the Geltman Mission in NYC.
My listening skills got better. My ability to deliver communication got better. And that is a good thing.
BUT……………..
My communication also got a bit stiff. And mechanical sometimes. Sometimes I would be aware of a fear of cutting off someone’s communication. Cutting communication was a mortal sin.
The Communication course, in my view, made communication mechanical sometimes.
If in fact the Communication Course did teach how to truly be there, why does the wog world call it the “Scientology Zombie Stare.”
I looked at David Miscavige’s picture on my essay The Responsibility of Leaders and see a person projecting something. He is not being there. He is attempting to project force and power through his eyes.
TR 0 many times is an enforced stare. Scientologists are known for their focused stare.
So if the entire world has categorized Scientologists as having a stare, how effective is the Communication Course. If the Com course really did work as advertised, the outside world would be saying that Scientologists space is very nice.
But the “Scientology stare” is how the world perceives and defines Scientology TR-0.
When I look back on those days in, I saw many many people, including myself, forcing energy though my eyes and thinking that was in PT.
Most of David Miscavige’s pictures are him forcing energy out though his eyes with the ego sending impressions of being powerful.
I knew people who were like that. I was sometimes.
Sorry to bring this up Mike but when Sweenie lost his cool there was a shot of you with those type of TRs I’m talking about.
The Charles Manson stare. That is how some egos interpret being there. Forcing energy out of the eyes.
Forcing energy into another’s space. TR-1 can actually be demonic when the person delivering the communication is filled with rage.
The basic TR course makes was for the HQS course were communication and intention then becomes about control.
Being there comfortably becomes being expert at controlling people. That’s where it states getting weird. Really weird.
When we look at a baby or young child filled with life and light; that is truly being there. So what is it that is being there?
It is lack of ego consciousness that is the condition necessary to being truly present. The Scientology stare is a phony experience of present time.
The Scientology stare is the ego localizing itself and intending energy out of the eyes.
And being truly present, truly present, puts us in a state on oneness with the other person. We feel the other person. We are the other person. We feel their thoughts and feelings. And that is the state of empathy.
When I am truly with another I feel them as myself. Their pain and suffering registers in my space as if it is mine. In that state I have such sympathy and empathy.
So……… it could be states that L Ron Hubbard was not really in present time. Because he preached violence against others. He was not in the present.
Because when I am in the present I want to do good. Because I feel others soul reflecting in myself.
How can Scientology preach they are the masters of communication and being in present time?
That is simply yet another lie of make believe; brainwashing.
“The Scientology stare” is an indicator of needing to do MORE TRs, not LESS. Communication is part of the ARC Triangle (affinity, reality, and communication). Whatever gains one gets from doing communication drills need to be used in life in the context of ARC. That means being real to people, liking them, and presenting oneself in a way that makes others comfortable. Being able to stare at people without being self-conscious IS an ability, but it’s only an early waystation on the journey to more effective relationships, and is left behind as one progresses. As a coach, I used to flunk students for staring. “Flunk! You’re confronting with staring!”
And now we’re flunking you for giving us verbal tech 😉
Seriously though, MORE hours of staring at people is the cure for the infamous 1000-lifetime stare that marks so many $cilons!?
When someone can convince you that doing more of what just messed you up is a good thing, then you better run because the very last bit of your self-determinism is about to slip away. When that happens, you can wake up years or even decades later and have almost no recall of how you came to lose such an essential part of who you are…and then you remember: it was during one of those stupid, brain-numbing, endless staring matches that you vanished.
For those who are still gone. we’ll leave a light on for you and hope you find your way back to yourself soon, no matter how long it takes for the kool-aaid to wear off.
LRH said, “What turns it on turns it off. Get the person through it.” Doing TRs doesn’t “mess people up.” But it does restimulate non-confront that they already have. Proper coaching repeats what caused the restimulation until the student no longer reacts to it. Ending off on a button too soon can leave the student with some attention still on what was restimulated. Continuing beyond the point where the student has become really free of what was restimulated invalidates his freedom and sticks him back in that restimulation. So coaching and supervision on TRs courses must be done properly. Far too often this was overlooked, and very green, non-auditor-trained TRs course supervisors did a bad job. That’s what “messed people up,” not the TRs themselves.
Could be. For some. But in my case it wasn’t that at all. I dumped the formulary years ago. And practice of TRs.
For me, being there in the present was directly perportional to my being comfortable with myself.
The more I knew myself, the more I could be there for others.
So maybe some people need more TRs. And some do not.
I didn’t say that doing more TRs was ALL that would be needed. Your points about knowing oneself and being relaxed with oneself are spot on. But if TRs are done in a manner similar to mindfulness meditation, anything negative that comes up would be fully experienced and thereby blown. This includes the use of self-control and “hiding in the cave” to not react. The absence of humanity “attained” by some people on TRs is in fact a presence of something that can be blown by doing more TRs mindfully. This was fairly well understood in the 60’s, but was lost as low-on-the-Bridge admin types took over later.
My 2 cents: You are absolutely right. But trying to explain what TR0 is to someone who does not understand from personal experience is almost pointless. One gets the product by studying the materials and actually doing the drill. If someone thinks that confronting is staring he will never get the product. He is just learning to stare for 2 hours which will never get a PC interested in his own case and willing to talk to the auditor. What these people are disagreeing with is not Scn; it is what they think Scn is, which will not produce any results worth having. My guess is that LRH came up with KSW because there is an infinite number of ways to do the drill wrong and he knew that he would be Q and A ing endlessly with people’s ideas so he demanded that they just do the drill. In OTTR0 one is supposed to be there comfortably and do nothing else. Staring is an action. It is doing something else. Nowhere in the HCOB does LRH say to stare at anyone. An auditor who stares at a PC will never keep him in session.
It was much harder for me than most people probably to do the drill as I was dying of AIDS and had to figure out what I was doing other than being there comfortably.
“Had I falsely attested? And if so, had this contributed to a dwindling spiral of lies that led to my eventual disaffection and desertion of the church?”
Nope. In the drills you said what you knew. Your knowledge was your own. Therefore, according to Elron, himself, “Personal integrity is knowing what you know. What you know is what you know and to have the courage to know and say what you have observed. And that is integrity and there is no other integrity.”
-L. Ron Hubbard
If your knowing equals integrity, then by that definition you could not have contributed to anything negative.
Further, while the downward spiral of lies could be looked upon in the negative as you wrote, it could also be looked at from a better perspective; the downward spiral of lies was contributed to on a daily basis by the organization, which opened a door to your knowing, this knowing caused you to deny the lies. In consequence, the organization shunned you (and those like you who are following their knowledge to the truth). That shunning is what, in the end, will be the downfall of Scientology.
After all,
“Anything you shun will have won.”
― L. Ron Hubbard
Thanks, azhlynne.
Now I’m confused all over again. If every Scientologist is expected to always be in the Present Time…..and also every Scientologist is expected to undergo auditing (which largely consists of thinking back on a trauma from the PAST)…..how are these two things even compatible?
Not being a smart-ass here (well, ok, maybe a little bit), but if there’s a way to logically explain how you can always mentally be in this “Present Time” while simultaneously auditing out “past traumas that you have to think about in great detail”, please educate me.
P.S. And when David Miscavige was reading Tom Cruise’s auditing sessions from….you know….”the past”, to make fun of him (or really anyone reading a PC’s past audits), is he not living in this mandatory Present Time when he does that? Perhaps I misunderstand the definition (at least according to LRH) of the word “present”.
‘Can you really be anywhere else’ than in Present Time, Terra Cognita asks. OK, I’m a never-in, but I still have lived experiences, like becoming a widow at 42. From that, I can say, “Yes!” unequivocally. You can – I was, for months thereafter – be stuck in the past, largely as a result of grief. That same grief affected me physically: I spent the first week in a daze, alternating between crying and attempting to understand that Bob was gone. I spent the next three having bronchitis that would not go away, and spent the next few months dealing with recurring kidney infections. All these physical effects were brought on by grief, by the complete whack to my usually intensely strong immune system that accompanied the unexpected death of my healthy 43 year old husband. That it was a suicide made dealing with it much worse.
I’ve known others who were stuck in the PST to such a great degree that they were unable to handle what was going on in real time, like paying bills or feeding themselves. Very often, this too was brought on by a tragedy like a death in the family. I remember going through some of that with Bob’s mom after his brothers, twins, died of complications of uncontrolled diabetes. Bob was my late husband. So I’ve not only lived through being stuck in the past myself, I’ve seen it in another and helped her learn to cope again. Yes, it is entirely and very painfully possible to be so stuck in the past, taken there by a normal grieving process, that one cannot cope with life up to the moment and let’s things go by the wayside. It often takes another to help one lift oneself back into the present.
I will say that it does not take Scientology to help another or to help oneself. Sometimes all it takes is allowing yourself to feel *all* your feelings, to acknowledge and recognize them, and to know (and often, to remind myself) that all of them are natural and okay. That no matter who says a certain feeling is unacceptable, that that is a lie. Not a “fib”, not anything or any euphemism more acceptable than a flat-out, bald-faced lie. Even if the opinion was that of a close relative, it’s still this way: An opinion is like an anus. You are entitled to both, but you have no business exposing me to the output of either.
Er, change the above PST (Pacific Standard Time) to “past” when you read this, please.
I prefer Pacific Standard Time…clever 🙂
I went past, past. What the Hell do I do now?
And, I have never been in, but have dealt with loss. What I remember, reading these posts, is the way I felt when I started exploring my parents’ religion. I found contradictions, similar, older stories. I felt angry. But I said nothing to them, because thats how I was raised, and it wouldnt have changed them. When my best friend’s mother passed, I was very upset. I didn’t like her at all, but she was part of my childhood. Another insitution gone.
But losing any belief system, is loss. Even if that system told you, or punished you for your natural thoughts. Even when said system did not allow you to take care of you. Because it was all about a goal.
But if you’re out now, there are foods that can help depression. A little. Red and yellow peppers, chickpeas, hummus? Almonds. KALE!! If I eat something like that every day, I’m not as apt to hear my self defeat.
Please don’t deplete your body.
I love the way Terra C strips the layers from the onion revealing more stuff that makes your eyes smart! I thought for years that the TRs had been somewhat beneficial. Now, I see that they converted me from wog to Scientologist and destroyed my humanity.
As a Nichiren Buddhist I believe in past lives, I just don’t get Scientology. I would never regate another person’s faith, but when the outworking harms others I have to draw the line. Thank you for you and Leahs’ efforts.
Terra, Ha! Many questions you have mulled over about being in PT echo mine. But it was impossible to get an answer because we were already directed back to the materials where the answers don’t always exist, and to find MUs. And what about the person who is able to multi-task and entertain several thoughts at the same time? Of course no thought can happen at the precise moment of another thought–they have to be at least milliseconds apart. Which negates the concept of being fully in PT at all times because thoughts are random and fleeting. Perhaps Buddha is the only one with this answer. But you hit the nail on the head–drilling drills the humanity right out of a person. Thinking it is more important to have zero expression on your face and no reactions in your mind when someone is sitting in front of you pouring out their heart or confessing a transgression is just stone cold robotic.
That is just TRO. In TR1 you have to get the intention across and in the end the TRs have to be “natural, relaxed and friendly”. If they are not, then it is not a product. That is why Terra says there are some good auditors. Unfortunately, there are stat-pushing supervisors who would rather that you were incapable than for them to be dead for not getting their stats up.
“Thinking it is more important to have zero expression on your face and no reactions in your mind when someone is sitting in front of you pouring out their heart or confessing a transgression is just stone cold robotic”……..So true Karen. Reminds me of my last debacle at Flag trying to speak normally to a 19 year old public MAA who kept inserting the word “Good” even at times when there was no need to acknowledge ANYTHING. Scientology lost all of it’s brains when people were kicked out or declared and replaced by unthinking children with zero life experience who are so out of present time they need a Back to the Future car just to arrive into 1946. What a mad house.
The drills you described just sound like meditation. Except you usually don’t have a twin or partner involved. If you are alive you are in present time. I guess the focus is not to dwell on the past and ruminate and not let it rule or mess up your present life. Some people have bad experiences are defined by them and can’t move on.
I don’t know the whole history of this blog but you always sign off as still not declared. That means you are out but they don’t know you’re writing? Or you’re in and writing? Are you still in because of family? Anyway thanks for sharing these insights with us.
As to the drills, very roughly, I would say that routines like this combine meditative techniques with hypnotic ones.
Some recently research came out recently suggesting that much as meditation does increase brain function, individuals who meditated for extremely long times had brain functions start to decrease. I think that Scientology’s techniques when taken to these extremes, cause that sort of shutting down, and result in the specific types of thought-stopping and thought reform useful for controlling individuals in a group. So maybe I should have said that the routines combine meditative and hypnotic techniques, as well as drilling and indoctrination similar to what is used in military training to get individuals to follow orders without question and to carry out acts that they would not have in normal life.
The coaching of individuals not to dwell on the past, and the basics of the training techniques that teach people to be more assertive in their communication, are some of the aspects that can be positive when not taken to extremes. Thus many people talk about benefits they got from some of the initial training, and those benefits also create a lure that gets individuals to continue on as the training and organization produce fewer concrete benefits with further involvement.