My name is Robert (Bob) Graham and I was a public member, in good standing with the church of Scientology for over 35 years. I reached the level of OT5 and Class 5 auditor before I left the organization, permanently in 2010. I have not previously spoken about my experiences in the church because my daughter and her family are still “in.” I thought that we could work things out and keep the family unit in place but since my wife I and left, my daughter and her family, including our grandchildren, have all disconnected from us. I believe it is in the best interest, to let everyone know that the disconnection policy is still alive and well in the Church of Scientology.
I got into Scientology around the time of the LA FBI raids, John Travolta’s movie, Saturday Night Fever, and the People magazine article, “The Bizarre Cult of Scientology.” I thought it was a pretty darn weird organization with all this stuff going on but in the end, I accepted the church’s story that it was: “Them against us” and our “religious freedom” was at stake.
Has anything changed since then? Not really. It’s just the same story – different time.
1976 was a time of excitement and opportunity with the tumultuous 60s and early 70s in the rear view mirror. I was young and chasing my dream of having my own business but soon after starting it, life kicked me in the butt. My marriage broke apart and suddenly I was a single father raising a teenage, rebellious daughter while trying to start a new business. I was soon overwhelmed by these challenges which left me stuck in my “ruin” as the COS might say. I walked around in a total funk until an acquaintance told me about Scientology and suggested I buy the book Dianetics and read it. I bought the book and tried to read it, but several weeks later I was forced to admit that I had thrown it away because I found it impossible to comprehend. To me, it was confusing, artificially philosophic and pedantic so I told him, “I think the book is just a bunch of nonsense.” But, not to be deterred, he took me to the old LA org for a lecture by Heber Jentzsch. Heber delivered an excellent lecture on how Diantetics and Scientology were there for all of us to use and apply to handle life’s challenges. I don’t recall the exact content of the presentation, but I do remember being very impressed with his professionalism and ability to communicate. Afterward, I was routed to a reg and promptly sold a comm course. The org staff was all friendly enough, although the process of getting reged in a church seemed a bit odd. But, in the end, I laid out $25 bucks hoping the course would help me fix my “life problems.” The reg said the course would take 3 days to complete so I signed up and off I went to start the next evening. The comm course was delivered to me in an old two story house on 9th street with about 25 other students and it took 5 weeks to graduate. The comm course gave me the ability to be there and communicate, which was exactly what was promised. I was blown away by the end result and it hooked me for wanting to do more Scientology so I purchased the Hubbard Qualified Scientology course for both me and my daughter. The reg told me this course would take 3 – 4 weeks to complete, but I figured that time frame was highly optimistic based on the time it took to do the comm course. But, anyway, we did the course together, and it took 4 months to complete. We had lots of fun doing it together, plus it really did help bring us into better communication. The HQS course was my introduction to the “Keeping Scientology Working” bulletin by L Ron Hubbard which was a very difficult read for me. This was also my indoctrination into HCOBs and LRH being correct 100% of the time and if I didn’t understand something, then I had misunderstood words, too steep a gradient or…..you know the drill. But, it seemed to make sense at the time, so I continued on.
After graduating the course, I felt as though I was part of something much bigger than myself but I had plenty of considerations that Scientology was still pretty weird so I wasn’t letting people know what I was doing at night, when on course. But, something else was taking place that I did not recognize at the time. I started to believe that LRH was more than a mortal man and his philosophy was going to help me figure out my problems with interpersonal relationships and possibly…answer my questions concerning the origin of the universe. At the same time I was forming an arrogant, self centered certainty that I could become superior to others because, as a Scientologist, I could “know” the secrets to life and livingness and those who were not Scientologists were just- mere – “wogs.” And, god forbid those who were opposed to Scientology, as those people were “fair game.” One could lie, trick or do harm to them with no consequence, as long as you didn’t get caught.
After completing these courses I went on to buy life repair from a field auditor. At first, it went great and I had some blow out wins, but it soon bogged after several intensives and I was routed to ASHO for “repair” auditing. By this time Scientology had moved to their “new” complex in LA and it was my first experience where the total focus of staff was to, “Get the damn money!” After a very long, exhausting reg cycle I wrote a check for $9,000 just to get them off my back, but I had no money in the bank. Now, it’s interesting because I told the reg that the check was no good, but he said, to write it anyway because by the time it cleared the bank, things would “go right” for me to cover it. He said, “Just make a postulate that the check will be good. Be OT about it!” Hell I didn’t have clue what he was talking about…”postulate”… “OT about it?” Needless to say, it didn’t go right and the check bounced. Now, remember, although $9,000 doesn’t seem like that much now, in 1978 it was like $36,000 in today’s money. After the check bounced, I received daily demands from the regs to make the check good but there was no way I could cover it. They even came to my place of business and demanded money but it was like trying to get blood out of a turnip as far as I was concerned. In the end I went down to ASHO to tell them there was no way I could come up with that kind of money. Furthermore, I felt they should take some responsibility for the check bouncing because I had told them up front that it was no good. That went over like a lead balloon and I quickly found myself at the MAA who told me, in no uncertain terms, “You will be declared a suppressive person and denied any further services unless you make that check good!” I believe he assigned me a condition of treason and after doing several of the steps, I figured this was going to be a losing battle. Not wanting to be thrown out of the church, I was going to have to figure out how to cover the check. One possibility was a settlement coming due to me several months up the road but that money was already committed to pay off credit cards for my previous auditing. On one hand I needed to make good on my promise to the banks and pay my obligations but on the other hand I needed to cover the bad check or be thrown out of my new “religion.” I remember it was a HUGE present time problem for me and my decision would have ramifications for years to come. What a “nuts” deal this was but for whatever reason I went along with the craziness because I didn’t want to be rejected and loose the possibility of “going clear.” It took a few months for the settlement to come in but when it did I made good on the check. As far as the credit card debts, I did what I had to do to cover my ass in the short term but at one point, American Express seized $15,000 in my business account. This, in turn, left me cash strapped for months while I dug myself out of the hole.
Anyway, I took the funds down to ASHO figuring the MAA would take the 9 grand and send me on my way…but that’s way too simple.
After talking to me for a couple of minutes he sent me over to the Guardian’s Offices office to pick up my “clearance” to do further services. At that time the GOs office was just across the street from ASHO, in the AO building. I was told to go to the 3rd floor, find the GOs office, knock on the door, VERY LIGHTLY, and then wait. So off I went and after stomping around in the half dark, cold, cement hallways, I finally found a door in the corner of the building with a scotch taped sign on the door that read, “Guardians Office.” I knocked on the door very lightly and waited. No answer. I knocked again. Nothing. After waiting a few minutes with no response, I went back to ASHO and told the MAA no one would answer the door. He said, “Damn, I forgot to call them and let them know you were coming. They don’t answer the door unless it’s prearranged.” The MAA forgetting to call was like most things to come Scientology…done half assed and unprofessional. But, anyway, I figured I better get that damn clearance, so back I went. This time I barely got my little knock done when somebody yanked the door open a crack and angrily demanded, “Who are You and What do You Want?” This guy was intense and it scared the crap out of me since the whole thing was so clandestine. The guy further barked, “You’re not supposed to be up here!” He started to slam the door in my face, before I even had a chance to say anything, when another person came up behind him and shoved a note through the partially open door, to me. Scribbled on a half sheet of paper was; “Robert Graham has clearance from the GOs office to continue with services.” I took it and scrambled down the hall and out the door as fast as I could go, thinking, “They must be hiding dead bodies in there!”
With that completed, the bad check cycle, which had begun months earlier was done and I routed into ASHO.
The repair auditing at ASHO bounced along until I finally used up all the hours and completed. Once done, and as I was doing the routing form, I remember thinking,”At last, this mess is over and I can continue going up the bridge to “clear.” Today, I find it very odd that I wasn’t outraged, having spent $9,000 on something that….was practically worthless. But maybe that speaks volumes on how I felt about my self worth, at the time.
After ASHO, I transferred to the Santa Barbara org where I trained up through Class V, reasoning that if I got trained as an auditor then I should be able to sort out why auditing wasn’t going so well for me, while other folks would rave on and on about the fabulous wins they were having. Part of my problem with auditing, was that I always felt the process was amateurish and unprofessional. Like the time I was in session receiving “The way to happiness” auditing and it bogged. My auditor, pulled out a correction list and after going through it several times with no good result, glared at me and asked, “What the hell is wrong with you?” Or, another auditor who was so disheveled and had such body odor that I couldn’t concentrate on anything other than his stench, let alone “my case.” Or, the time I was on OTV and my auditor, having been up all night, fell asleep while waiting for me to answer the question. He, then pleaded with me to not tell the examiner, explaining that the AOLA Sea Org staff got no sleep the night before because they were kept up all night trying to finish a project. The project didn’t get done in time for him to catch any sleep and then he was told to “make it go right” and go audit as usual. The poor guy was in his 60s and he just couldn’t do it. I really felt bad for him and sure didn’t have the heart to rat him out, so I just kept his little secret to myself.
But, back to my story, after several years of going in circles with my auditing, LRH released the bulletin on natural clear. I thought this was the answer to the challenges I had been having ever since my blow out wins on Life Repair. After reading it over carefully I attested to natural clear, then routed onto OT1 – 2 and eventually, eagerly started OT3. I should have run for the door when I read the OT3 material, but after questioning it, I quickly learned that questioning these radical LRH materials was going result in a long and expensive side trip where the result would likely be, finding out there was something wrong with me, not the materials. I didn’t want to be the “only one” who questioned the OT3 story so I chose to hope that it would all get sorted out as I progressed through the level. Furthermore, I was concerned that it was “just me” who thought this was a poorly written science fiction story and I surely didn’t want anyone else to know I wasn’t “getting” the tech.
My twin, (another student you are paired with to do courses in Scientology) was a rather timid girl and the OT3 course supervisor was Harold Simms, who by the way, acted like a lunatic much of the time. One day she shyly questioned the OT3 materials and Ol’ Harold as we called him, went type 3 (psychotic behavior) on her, screaming in a rage about her not confronting the “Wall of Fire.” He screamed and cussed at her until she was bent over on the table sobbing away, completely terrified by his rage. I finally Intervened and said to Harold “That’s enough! (Of your bullying) What’s going on?” After that, He calmed down and we continued on with course like nothing happened. Nowhere in business or social gatherings would someone like “Ol Harold” be tolerated, but because we were on a confidential course, where even a mention of the agenda would get you into heavy ethics trouble, none of us wrote it up or even dared to try and see that he was fixed. I recall thinking to myself, “I guess they put a lunatic in the course room to test, if we could confront the “Wall of Fire.” (Another name for OT3) I really did think this was the case, since he had been the OT3 supervisor for years and his “crazy” reputation preceded him!
Kirstie Alley was on OT3 at the same time and I would word clear her occasionally on the materials. I remember the first time I met her, Harold took me aside and explained that she was an actress who was inclined to “show off” instead of confronting the materials. He told me, “Be aware of it and keep her under control otherwise she goes “on stage” and becomes very difficult to work with.” He seemed to be intimating that she was a bit psycho and I didn’t totally understand where he was coming from, but I got the gist of it. Actually the word clearing went OK with just a few spastic outbursts from her, but I couldn’t help but think, “Good god, what is she doing on OT3? This girl is dingy!” Only later did I see her on Cheers and recognize who she was. But, anyway, I muddled my way through OT3 and went on up to do OT4 and finally OT5.
On OT5, Kirstie and I met again and shared the same auditor but this time they shuffled us between AOLA and Celebrity Center to receive auditing, depending on which place was convenient for her. On the other hand, I always needed to make a lot of things “go right” each day for me to leave the business and drive to LA for my session. Since Kirstie and I had the same auditor, she was always accommodated by getting into session first and I always followed her in the lineup. Consequently, after driving 60 miles, sometimes, I would not even get a session because she was delayed, ran long or was too busy acting goofy to make it go right. I didn’t understand why we weren’t being treated as equals, but now I realize they were accommodating Kirstie to keep her in the “bubble.” One time, after not getting in session for several days, I mentioned to the D of P that I wanted to be treated fairly in the line-up. My comment was quickly met with, “You need to write up your OWs!” That was always a quick way to shut somebody up.
I finished OT5 after burning through 5 intensives and got very little, if any actual gain from the level. It was just too weird for me, but I finally attested to completion, if only to stop spending anymore of the tens of thousands of dollars it had already cost, with no end in sight. Then, a few years later, all of us who had previously finished OT5 were told we needed to re-do it because some SP had deleted several steps on the level so the full ability wasn’t achieved. Wouldn’t you think I would have enough sense to kick this BS to the curb and be done with it? Nope, not me! If nothing else I was persistent and wanted to get to the bottom of why auditing didn’t work for me so I laid down another $40k and did it again. By this time I was experiencing severe back pain from the stress of it all so after the 2nd time through the CS finally gave me the R-factor that I needed to get on to OT6 and 7 to handle “my case.” To complete, I gave some win, but in actuality there was no result other than getting the reges off my back for a short time because I was fully paid up though OT7.
Previous to all this, In 1984 I married a non Scientologist who was open to learn about the subject. Sharon struggled with Scientology right from the beginning, but continued doing courses and receiving auditing on and off for years. Then, in 1991, after major surgery, she developed health issues that mimicked postpartum symptoms with severe body pains. To make a very long story short, she had countless hours of auditing and repairs, trying to handle her “PTS situation” to no avail. She received auditing at AOLA, Celebrity Center, Santa Barbara, Ventura and she even went half way across the country to a mission in Louisiana, each one promising they had the “why” on what was wrong. We were desperate to find out why she was not doing well, so each time we would drink the cool aid and buy services at these Orgs and Missions hoping that they could deliver the “tech” correctly in hopes she would recover and be well again. In retrospect, it seems the staff at these orgs was totally focused on “getting the money” and didn’t really believe there was “standard tech.” I say that because each church would take our money and tell us, “Only, they had the 100% correct tech to handle her condition.” But, In fact, each time she would just get worse. There is a whole other story here that I won’t go into at this time, but after she left Scientology a friend recommended she go to a doctor that specialized in bio identical hormones. After a few weeks of balancing her hormones, Sharon magically became a “well and happy human being” once again. Recently, she told me that before we made the decision to leave Scientology…and all their “cures,” she thought she was going to die. She felt for her own survival, she had to get away from it and find a doctor that knew how to diagnose her condition. She was 100% right and the “tech” almost did her in. Worse yet, every time the “tech” didn’t work, various terminals within Scientology would tell me, that she was “no case gain” and/or PTS, at best. I am sorry to say that Sharon did not get the support from me that she deserved, but that is all behind us now that we are out of the craziness of it all.
On my route to “Total Freedom” there were also expensive side trips like the one which my wife and I were reged to go to the ship in 2004. The reges painted the picture of a Freewinds cruise as a wonderful 2 week vacation where one could relax, tour the Caribbean, take Freewinds specific courses and receive auditing in an atmosphere of total safety and comfort. We were suckers for this pitch because the previous year we had taken a Royal Caribbean cruise and loved it. Well, let’s just say that those who sold us on this Freewinds cruise didn’t know what they were talking about or they were intentionally lying their asses off because this cruise was anything but relaxing and/or fun. After shelling out the money for the “cruise” we arrived at the ship to discover that this was only the beginning of a much larger and more expensive reg cycle. Upon boarding the ship, all of our Identification and passports were taken and locked up for “safe keeping.” At first I objected having our identification removed because it made no sense but finally we acquiesced and handed it over, once informed it was LRH “policy.” I believe that removing one’s identification is actually done so there is no escape, even when the ship is in port. Without an ID and passport we were effectively prisoners and we weren’t going anywhere without permission. We were trapped on that damned ship with no way off!
Once we were far out to sea, I was given the R factor that I had been CSd to do a more advanced course than the one I previously purchased which was thousands of dollars extra. Then, once the reges found out I had reserves, I was fair game and every other day was body routed to reges to buy auditing hours, more courses, food, berthing upgrades, IAS donations, etc. – etc. – etc. I felt there was no choice but do as we were told and try to hold off the IAS bastards from taking all of our money plus any available credit on credit cards. We were also told that our courses would take 5 days full time, but we were there for 5 weeks at their mercy, doing courses from 9 am to 10 pm, 7 days a week. The alternative was to be sent to ethics and/or sec checked until “God knows when.” Besides, it was made perfectly clear that we would NOT be leaving the ship until we had successfully completed our “programs.” On Friday nights, just when we thought we could relax and enjoy a few hours to ourselves, staff would come to our cabin and beat on the doors until we answered. Then, we were marched off to the auditorium to partake of Friday night completions, announcements and Scientology PR while all the exits were guarded by staff so no one could leave.
But, I have to give credit where credit is due. The food on the ship was fantastic. They have some excellent chefs on staff but sometimes I wondered if the crew was eating rice and beans because some of them looked quite pallid and gaunt, along with their over the top, militaristic attitude. In hind sight, maybe they were just hungry! This cruise was the polar opposite of the one we took a year earlier on the Royal Caribbean! There was one time, where I found myself on a short break from course so off I went to the workout room for some exercise, but within 10 minutes, a staff member came in and demanded to know why I wasn’t on course or in session. I explained that I was on a break and getting some badly needed exercise that I hoped would help me sleep at night. She then, proceeded to berate me for being out ethics and told me that I should be contributing to the motion of “clearing the planet,” not being the effect of my body and wasting time exercising. Now, I understood why the exercise room, filed with workout machines, was always empty! In hindsight, I doubt if this were a chance meeting since virtually nothing is left to chance on that ship. My best guess is that there was a reality adjustment intended for me but whatever it was, it missed the mark and only made me think these people on this ship are nuts!
The Freewinds cruise turned into a stressful, month-long ordeal, but it gave us some insight into what it must be like for Sea Org members. I cannot fathom living where every moment of one’s life is planned, structured and lived for the purpose of “clearing the planet.” They all have to know, deep down, it’s nonsense. I wonder how many of those who join the Sea Org, originally sign up because of some personal need for absolute, structure in their lives, then get trapped with no way out. I simply don’t know or understand why someone would desire that life style. But on the positive side, for me, the Freewinds experience started the process of questioning the fact that if all these lies need to be told to get people to do services, then maybe… there was something awfully wrong with the whole damn thing.
But I wasn’t quite done drinking the cool aid, yet.
The final straw came when I went to Flag to do my OT7 preps. Let’s just say the cycle went horribly bad. I was quickly given an R-factor that I should go back home and to expect a “program” that I would need to complete before continuing up the “bridge to total freedom.” I left in mystery as to exactly what was going on but went home and waited and waited, then waited some more for my program to arrive. Finally, after repeated phone calls and Emails, I received a program that required me to do the PTS/SP course before continuing. It seemed to indicate that it was something I might need to do, so I started the course and proceeded through it. Several months later, just as I was about the finish the course, the Org Ethics Officer asked to speak with me. She told me they had received a message from FLAG that I should not be doing courses in the Santa Barbara Org and my only terminal was the FLAG MAA. The Ethics Officer and I were both confused so she asked to see, in writing, the program I had received from FLAG. After reading it, she said, “This is really weird because you’re on the course that FLAG ordered and I don’t see a problem. But, I will query it.” The next day she called me at home and nervously told me that she was sorry, but the order from FLAG stood as written and she would have to enforce it until I got it cleared up.
I, then contacted the FLAG MAA and was given an R-Factor that I had been sent the “wrong program” previously. She further said that I could expect my new program, by FED-X in a couple of days. There was no explanation, no apology…nothing other than, “You got the wrong program.” But, I had the gut feeling something was amiss behind the scenes. After a month with no communication, I again, contacted the MAA at FLAG who explained that my folder was being further reviewed and to expect it in the next few days. After another month with no communication or instructions, I contacted her and again was told that I should be receiving my “new” program any day. I was about to say, “The hell with it” when it finally arrived, several weeks later. The “new” program stated;
1) All my certs and certificates were cancelled
2) Buy the SHSBC tapes, books, course packs and materials and get checked out on them
3) I don’t recall the rest of the program but I believe there were 6 or more steps on it
My god, none of this indicated as correct. I was totally overwhelmed! It was lost on me as to what policy this followed and why the gradient was so overwhelmingly steep. I called and asked to speak with someone in charge about my situation and was transferred to an MAA. She seemed to show some empathy by sheepishly saying, “I shouldn’t be telling you this, but ever since the Lisa McPherson thing happened and now with the aftermath (whatever that meant) everyone on the Base is on edge.” But that’s as far as the communication went before she begged off and ended the communication. It made no sense what my cycle had to do with Lisa McPherson! I tried to query the “new program” further up the lines, hoping to gain a better understanding or get an explanation of what the hell was going on but there was never any reply other than “Start the program.” My gut feeling was that my folder was mixed up with someone else’s’ data but I couldn’t figure out how to get past the stops. I walked around in a fog for months, trying to do the program but not understanding what the hell was going on. Slowly but surely I became dismayed, disillusioned and bitter about my whole Scientology experience. How could everything be so screwed up if Scientology was 100% correct and FLAG was the Mecca of technical perfection?
Finally, I sought out a friend who had been on OT7 for several years and asked if she could give me some advice on how to handle my situation. We sat down together and after I explained what was going on, she told me with a steadfast gaze, “Don’t fight it, just do what they say. Believe me when I tell you—something similar happened to me — and it is nearly impossible to straighten out, once it comes down the line!” I was stunned! Here I was talking to someone at the top of the bridge and she is advising me to be total effect. This is cause over life? This is the end product of Scientology? This is Total freedom? No way! Not!
I decided right then and there that I was DONE with Scientology but now the challenge came in trying to leave the church without creating a huge upset with my daughter.
You see, my daughter, the out of control teenager, grew up to be a responsible adult who married into another Scientology family. We were business partners for 25 years and built a successful electronics business while we both did “the bridge.” She was just starting OT7 when I began the process of leaving Scientology. After more than 30 years, my wife and I had decided to quit and close the door behind us. We wanted to be left alone and just leave the church, but that was not to be. To punish me for what I was doing, my daughter left the business in the most destructive way she could. She was coached by the church, into forming a coup with 5 other employees who all quit and disconnected at the same time. One morning, I came into work and found a disconnection letter on my desk with the majority of management and sales crew… gone! With most of my sales staff missing, it was nearly impossible to run the business with any semblance of customer service but I struggled along for several months while trying to rebuild the staff and management. But, without my daughter and business partner, my heart was just not in it any longer so I found someone to buy the business at a “fire sale” price and that was the end of the line for one of the most successful, small businesses of its kind, in the Country.
A few months later, someone up the lines must have changed their minds because my daughter contacted me and said she wanted to repair our relationship and was sorry for what had happened. It was pretty confusing after going through the hell of disconnection, the family break-up and selling the business, but I also wanted it to be different because we had always been so close before all this took place. At the time, I thought it was about repairing the family, but in hindsight, I speculate that the church was leading from behind and at some point became concerned about the money I had on account. I say this because part of the family repair was a settlement which included me signing over all the unused money we had on account for her family, to use as they pleased and the church was spared the indignity of a rather large refund cycle. But after we kissed and made up, I found that we were being monitored about things we had said that could be construed as anti-Scientology. We discovered this after Sharon posted that she had “given testimony” on Facebook. The Scientologists mistakenly, thought Sharon had given legal testimony in court against Scientology so my daughter was sent in to interrogate us. She wanted to know to “WHOM” and “WHAT” Sharon gave testimony about. We explained that the testimony was simply a short statement made at a friend’s church about coming back to the Christian religion. Our communication became heated as we discussed the miscommunication and soon it came out that I had also attended a church and someone in the congregation had asked what faith I came from. I replied, “Scientology.” After telling her what I had said, she became very upset and asked me if I knew; “Publicly disavowing Scientology was grounds to have me declared!” I told her I had simply answered a question that was posed to me, but it made no difference. She had “policy” to back it up and both of us had stepped over the line. Oh well, so much for the church being paranoid!
Then, to make matters worse, Sharon went on to label LRH as a douche bag on Facebook, just for the fun of it. I wish Scientologists could see the humor in it all — but that’s probably not to be. Even after these things happened, we would still go to lunch from time to time, but I could tell my daughter was bothered by something, but she wasn’t going to tell me about it. “Good roads and good weather” was the usual substance of our conversations, but none-the- less, I valued the fact that we had a relationship, even if limited. Also, during this period of connection she told me that she did not want to disconnect, and hoped that “things” could be “handled.” But if not, she would say, “I might have to decide, on my own determinism, to disconnect,” I would tell her that I hoped that didn’t happen but I knew something was going on, behind the scene…but she wasn’t about to tell me. My guess is that she was struggling, caught between the church saying she needed to disconnect verses her not wanting to do it.
It took 4 years, after we left the church to get the demands for us to come in for handling, phone calls, personal interventions and mail from the various orgs to…stop! At one point a FLAG MAA called me and emphatically apologized for what had occurred when I went to FLAG for services. She further said that it was an error in programming and if I would just come in and talk to them, everything could be set right. Somehow, this didn’t ring true with me so I told her in no uncertain terms that I was done with Scientology and why I was done, but the calls, requests and personal interventions kept coming. We finally accomplished getting the church off our backs by making communication from them so painful that the staff would retreat and reconsider whether communicating to us was worth it. We also sent all their junk mail back “return to sender” with notes to not contact us again under threat of litigation. We both knew the consequences of leaving the church this way, but the alternative would be submitting to “meetings,“ OW write-ups, lower conditions and endless sec checking. Disconnection, if it came to that, was the price we were willing to pay for our freedom.
In the end, my daughter made the decision to re-disconnect. She and all of her family, including our grandchildren have disconnected once again and refused any further communication. Hopefully, one day, we can once again have a father-daughter relationship and enjoy our grandchildren but I have to accept the fact – that – will only come about when the church is forced to change it’s destructive policies on disconnection – or – my daughter becomes disillusioned with it all, and leaves. To that end, I share my story.
It would seem to be such a simple solution for the “church” to say to all of us who left or want to leave, “I get it. It didn’t work for you so let’s part ways and get on with life.” But with this organization, if there are 10 ways to handle situations correctly and 1 way to do it incorrectly, it seems they will choose the one wrong way, every time. To me, they seem to function a bit like a definition of insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Once I was out and knew there was no going back, I started researching on the internet and found that we are not the “only ones” who were disillusioned with this “Science of the mind.” I will give the subject of Scientology the benefit of the doubt, that it has limited workability but there is no actual science behind it at all, so it’s not a mystery as to why it doesn’t work for everyone 100% of the time and why so many have become disillusioned and left the church.
If you want to make a lie – stick – build it on some basic truths that the person can buy into. When one starts receiving auditing or basic courses at the beginning of Scientology, there are some basic truths to be discovered. These truths have been around, in one form or another, for a long time and LRH did a fantastic job collecting and organizing these things. But, once a person discovers these “truths” in Scientology, they can trap a person. Why? Because when one arrives at the upper levels, one tends to believe, because some of the basics were true, that the science fiction nonsense, on these upper levels must also be true. But at some point, we all have to take responsibility for ourselves and stop taking part in the “Truman Show.” With Scientology one can get so invested with time, money, prestige or whatever that it is very difficult to confront what it actually is.
For me, my “ruin” was handled by living life and winning more than loosing. I also came to an understanding that I could live life and be quite happy without Scientology. Opportunities have appeared almost like magic and those things that were difficult and creating stress are now out of my life. Leaving Scientology was not easy. In fact, it was the most difficult things that I have ever done, but like Kelly Clarkson’s song, “Stronger” says, “What doesn’t kill you – makes you stronger!”
Thank God for those who continue to be brave enough to speak out about the church. The first person that I personally knew, who spoke out publicly, was my good friend, Lisa Halverson back in the 1990s on the Larry King show. I wish I still had contact with her and could say, “Thank You!” But, I feel sorry for those who still cling to the hope that LRH was anything other than a man who created a philosophy that he was able to pawn off as a religion while amassing an incredible amount of money and power. I believe his driving force was, attempting to understand his own mind. To that end, he became a victim of his own endless exploration into his mind. I also think that the more one does Scientology – the more one becomes – like the mind of L Ron Hubbard because after all, that is what most of his writings were really all about. He was desperately attempting to interpret his own mind. His research into the mind of man was actually, LRH looking at his own thoughts and imagination, writing them down and issuing them as HCOBs and HCO PLs and calling himself – “Source.”
To those who are questioning, I recommend a lot of research. Start by reading some books. “Going Clear, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief” by Lawrence Wright is an excellent choice. As yet, I have not read Marty Rathbun’s books only because I prefer audio books, but from the reviews they are very good and informative. Get on the internet and research everything. Check out Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder’s blogs. These guys were at the top echelon of Scientology management for many years and publish a steady wealth of information about the true nature of the Church of Scientology and its current management. Read the good, the bad and the ugly, then sort it out for yourself as to what is true and who to believe. The truth will cut through like a sharp knife in butter. You’re going to run across the OT3 stuff while on the internet. Nothing bad is going to happen and rest assured that you won’t get phenomena and die after you read it. You see, in his infinite wisdom, Hubbard warned that anyone who read these materials, but was not prepared to receive it, would die of phenomena. To date, thousands if not millions, have read the OT3 materials on the internet and I have not heard of any phenomena plague threatening the human population. The true story about LRH and Scientology will unfold, I promise.
Bob and Sharon, what a terrific vivid write-up of your experiences! I read every word and enjoyed your ability to still have some humor about it all, horrendous as it was. As LRH said, laughter is rejection. He was right about that and you have got the last laugh here by surviving and thriving.
Thank you!
I am so sorry for the pain the Sciobots have caused. Stay strong & keep the door open to your daughter and her family. One day the scales will fall & she to will have a moment of “oh crap they are crazy”. The phone will ring & things will be made right again.
I am glad you & your wife made it out as a unit…. that says a lot.
I’d like to hear Iamvalkov’s bridge experience.
deEl, If you read my posts, you will see that I do not claim any. I criticize some of Al’s posts on their own merits, or lack of such. I sometimes object to his pretensions to be an “expert” and “authority” on “scientology” who asserts what can only be opinions, as “facts”.
Al has a lot of experience in some aspects of “scientology”, and little or none in some other aspects. He posts as though everything he says about scientology is “the God’s Truth”, when sometimes it is just his opinion. THAT is what I object to, when I object to one of his posts.
I do not need to have any experience of ‘the Bridge’, in order to ask him questions like “Al, how do you know that?”
Ha! I love the wit!
Excellent writing, Bob. Very compelling read.
Keep enjoying your story.
The same story again. What I noticed most was the Out-Tech on this guys case, Auditor asking him what’s wrong High Crime why did he not rwrite that up?
He did not do well on OT III so he goes onto IV, oh still problems so he goes onto VI and VII and so on. Bad case program he probably had earlier case errors in programming. It is Scientologists that fuck it all up not Scientology.
His wife was a classic exaample, ill gets auditing, still ill, gets more and so on and so on. where was the MLO? Don’t blame the C/S i blame him. If my wife was that ill and had his $$$$$$$$$$$’s I would have gone to a specialist and had tests done.
The other thing that pees me off is they never really told any staff or IAS regges to F*** OFF!.
I mean I never took one ounce of crap from any Sea Org cretin not once. In fact myself and another colleague in London had the rep of not going along with out Tech or Off-Policy, and you know what?
We never got a court of Ethics or a comm-Ev or declare in all those years. The only reason I walked out was I refused to take shit From Jaques and Challef two spastics of the universe and both insane.
Nuff said
+1
Hiatus57 wrote:
It is Scientologists that fuck it all up not Scientology.
I can hear David Miscavige saying this exact thing.
It’s what The Hole was for: all those Scientologists who kept fucking up Scientology.
There comes a point, don’t ya think, when after the last SO member has died of cancer underneath the last air conditioner, that you might take a look at the tech itself?
http://www.holysmoke.org/minton/mintonlp.htm
Alanzo
Typical Misduplication as usual.
LRH said people never have trouble with Scientology, only Scientologists.
The Tech does work but it is rarely applied correctly in or out of the Church.
As for the last Sea Org member dying I couldn’t care less. If any person is prepared to watch a loved one suffering and do nothing about it they deserve what they get.
I watched a Staff member in London Org rolling about in agony in reception while the half trained MLO kept ordering Yoghurt and vitamins.
Myself and one other staff member took him to the Hospital round the corner where he was rushed in AT ONCE and was operated on the next day to remove the blockage in his bowel and he made a full recovery.
He almost died if not fot myself and one other .
So bollocks, I have done my bit and save at least one life what have you done?
Hiatus wrote:
Typical Misduplication as usual.
LRH said people never have trouble with Scientology, only Scientologists.
The Tech does work but it is rarely applied correctly in or out of the Church.
If the tech works but it is not applied correctly, then what about the Scientology technology, like word clearing and false data stripping and Qual and Hatting and training – ALL THE SCIENTOLOGY TECH TO GET SCIENTOLOGY APPLIED CORRECTLY?
You are saying that that Scientology technology does not work.
Can you see that your own statement:
The Tech does work but it is rarely applied correctly in or out of the Church.
Contradicts what you are saying to me?
Here, look at your logic:
If the tech works
Yet it isn’t applied correctly either in or out of the Church
Then the Scientology tech to make Scientology applied correctly does not work.
So you are saying that the tech DOES NOT work.
Can you see this?
Alanzo
There are explanations other than “the tech doesn’t work”.
For example, it is well-known that admin staff in orgs often get very little training and or/auditing, despite it being a ‘guaranteed’ part of their contracts. The original intent was for staff to have daily study time so they could go up the Bridge, yet in practice that often didn’t happen. Right there is the case of ‘tech’ being misapplied or not being applied at all, or possibly ‘quickied’.
But people were supposed to be improved by Scientology technology, and so all those broken promises they made were never fixed by the Scientology technology that was being applied to them and all around them in Churches, and throughout the organization they were in – which was dedicated to applying the tech correctly.
So Scientology technology did not work to make better people in Scientology who would keep their promises.
So again, by saying that it was Scientologists who misapplied or did not apply the tech, you are saying that the tech did not work.
Can you see that by blaming the people for the tech not working, you are avoiding the fact that the tech does not work?
These are the two contrary data that you are shifting back and forth from, avoiding seeing the truth:
The tech does not work
Scientologists can’t make the tech work
You can see only one, while having to block out the other.
Remember, cognitive dissonance is NOT holding two contrary data in your mind at the same time, it is reducing one of the data in various ways so that you will not consider it while holding on the datum you are most invested in.
Cognitive dissonance is intolerable to a human being. The dissonance (disharmony, inconsistency, chaos, “entheta”) has to be reduced by denying the existence of the data that conflicts with your existing beliefs.
By blaming Scientologists for fucking up the application of the tech, you never have to confront the times when the tech itself did not work.
For how many more years are you going to do this to yourself before you finally just confront the truth?
How many more years are you going to try to punish people who present this data to you?
Aren’t you sick of it by now?
Don’t you want it to just stop?
All right then. Just look at it: The tech does not work like L Ron Hubbard said it did.
Alanzo
Alanzo — you may find this difficult to believe, but I agree with your fundamental premise, though I think in trying to assert yourself you become the other side of the “tech works 100% of the time if applied” and start trying to argue “the tech works 0% of the time now matter how it is applied.”
You are not going to win any arguments with people frequenting this blog with that sort of debate tactic. You and Valkov will just go back and forth until I call a halt to it.
But I hold the view that the argument that “the tech works all the time if standardly applied” is the hallmark of a fundamentalist “believer.” The only thing you have to do is “Keep Scientology Working” and all will be well is just not supported by any FACTS, most notably that nobody has been able to do so and the subject is becoming a footnote in history. The “great breakthrough” of Scientology was supposed to be “Qual” and that it is self-correcting. LRH looked down his nose at the “temporary” organizations that had only lasted a couple of hundred million years. The Church of Scientology is not going to last a century. So, this is clearly an erroneous premise. And I know there are people who will argue that this is the organization, not “the tech” but it cannot be proven to work 100% of the time or there would not be so many SP’s who had made it to the top of the Bridge. But then there is an excuse for that because that is misapplication of ethics tech and not “tech tech.” Ok, so how about the fact that regardless of what “powers” they have, there are a ton of Clears who have not progressed on to OT III or OT IIIs who have not progressed on to OT V etc etc. And the fundamentalist will argue that “they didnt have standard tech applied to them” so in fact there will NEVER be “standard tech applied” because there are always SP’s around etc etc. The explanations go on forever.
But equally as faulty in my view is the idea that no benefit can be derived from anything in Scientology. It is ALL bad and anyone who says otherwise is a dupe. That is an untenable position. ANd what is funny is that the proponents of both sides of this argument become MORE certain of their position the harder they push against the opposite.
Mike wrote:
But equally as faulty in my view is the idea that no benefit can be derived from anything in Scientology. It is ALL bad and anyone who says otherwise is a dupe. That is an untenable position.
I know very few people, even the staunchest critics, who hold this position. It is certainly not my position, although people try to assign this position to me all the time.
This idea that Scientology works 100% of the time when correctly applied and when it does not work it is the fault of the Scientologist was developed by LRH after he had some spectacular and very public failures of the tech in the 1950’s. Over the years he developed ways to get Scientologists to apply these thought stopping slogans to any challenge to what he wanted them to think and believe.
He got very good at these rhetorical tricks and manipulations. They act like standard Scientology ser facs that make the tech right and everyone else wrong, while also explaining away failures, dominating and escaping domination:
“We build a world with broken straws” can be used to distract from any Scientology failure.
“Scientology works 100% of the time when correctly applied” was used to install an article of faith in the tech which then blamed every Scientologist for Scientology’s technical failures – never ever blaming the tech for anything bad and always blaming Scientologists.
There are many of these. And I believe it is important to challenge them in the simplest and clearest way I can whenever they arise.
I know that I am never going to convince Valkov of anything. I hope I never do. Because that means he’ll stop with the Scientology think, and I would have fewer and fewer foils.
So shhhhhhh!
Alanzo :>
So, Al. What might you want to convince me of?
Mike, no truer words were ever spoken! Thank you.
Al, I’m not going to parse out your post here line by line, or, really, much at all. Mike has asked that we not continue in this vein. The foundational fallacy is right at the beginning and I believe it is obvious to you. Get a book of some “technology” – say, “auto repair”. Put it on a shelf in your house, and wait for it repair your car. No? Your car doesn’t get fixed? OK, then automotive tech doesn’t work, right? Sure, that’s an extreme example, there are always gradients of understanding and ability to apply. But that is how your argument reads to me. It is basically unsound, when added to the fact that many “scientologists” did in the past and are now today applying scientology tech, it is working well for them and the people to whom they are applying it.
So what do you hope to accomplish by continuing to spread absolutist statements that are false on their face?
I am genuinely curious.
“At the same time I was forming an arrogant, self centered certainty that I could become superior to others because, as a Scientologist, I could “know” the secrets to life and livingness ..”
Ah, knowingness…. It may not work in Real Life[tm], but at least it’s expensive!
Excellent write-up!
I am so happy that your long adventure has led you at last out the door.
None enjoy freedom as much as those who have been long deprived of it.
May your daughter join you soon….And thank you for coming forward with your story.
Hello Bob,
Thank you for sharing your candid story. It is difficult to leave Scientology indeed. Your story helps people who are out and those in transition. I hope you will be reunited with your daughter and grandchildren soon and send you my best wishes for a happy future.
Thank you for sharing your story, Bob! Thank you very much!
Whether or not you are planning to participate in FlagDown in Clearwater on May 5-10th–I am curious if there could not be a seperate event (perhaps related then or later) focused solely on DISCONNECTION. Coupled, perhaps, with a march and demand to meet with family members? I think the time is right and the media may now well pay more attention to such a focused discussion/demonstration/PR initiative. There are too many hurt by this policy and practice for it to be denied by the RCS and the old Tommy Davis, DM, Pouw lies extant.
Bob and Sharon, WOW and THANK YOU for sharing your experiences and so glad you are out. This was an excellent explanation that will ring true to so many, if they are to look and think. I hope you both (and so many others) are soon reunited with your family.
Thank you. Not planning on attending Flag down but I like the idea “seperate event (perhaps related then or later) focused solely on DISCONNECTION. Coupled, perhaps, with a march and demand to meet with family members? I think the time is right and the media may now well pay more attention to such a focused discussion/demonstration/PR initiative.” Getting the media involved is key.
I agree with How To Reconnect Sooner. If you made a protest with all signs about disconnection, I think the media would pick it up and you’d get good coverage and come one step closer to ending disconnection.
Wow, holy fuck what a write-up!
It is utterly shocking what you went through and put up with, and at the same time so similar to what we and so many others have also experienced.
Glad to have you out and free!
Nora: You don’t have to “admit” that you admire LRH. I too admire his brilliance in putting together (I don’t think he “developed” them) several disparate threads and coming up with what he and others that have successfully used as a way to help and improve their lives. Many people have attested to its usefulness. Personally I wouldn’t call it a religion or a philosophy nor a technology. But he was certainly skilled in synthesizing others’ ideas into something that works – for some people. One of the ironies is that he profited from the writings of the likes of Freud and others who corporate scientology proclaims are evil.
Where the monster it has become in corporate Scientology seems to be falling apart is that it was taken way too far, into the world of fantasy, power of mind control and manipulation of people. I admire the brilliance of anyone that can do that, without admiring the current outcome. I cannot judge what LRH’s motives were, nor where it would have evolved if he had lived another 50 years compos mentis. Clearly he was a liar (aka story teller) and seems to have been a drug addict at the end. Many of us will end our lives using drugs to relieve the situation.
I can however judge, by his actions, what the motives are for the guy running the show now. Despite him the good bits LRH put together will survive to help people.
Thank you for your comment Tony. There is much to admire in Hubbard’s work and I find I admire it even more now that I am taking responsibility for it and evaluating it and working with what is real for me within the data. I know that I am complicit in the current horrible state of the Church because I did not do that before. I became lazy and accepted everything without examination. Good, bad or indifferent, I want to understand it all and accept or reject on my own terms. I do feel LRH found a way out of the mess if techniques are applied correctly. One of the things I loved when I first got in to Scientology was that LRH said to accept what is real for me and throw out the rest if I want to. It was ME who didn’t do that and I’m sorting my way back through that now.
I have always found KSW to be harsh, but looking at what the Church has become I can see what LRH was worried about. If applied correctly it is a workable technology. If not it can become…well it can become what the corporate Church is today. The horrible thing is that now KSW is being used to clamp into place INCORRECT technology. It is my belief that the troubles that many OT VII’s and VIII’s are having is that they haven’t actually been given the straight goods. The stories I’ve heard of out-auditor’s code and misuse of confessionals and basically keeping people on programs just until the money runs out etc. are horrible but the people in the corporate Church will defend these as the Scientology that we are to keep working. I see this as an example of LRH writing a policy for a valid reason, trying to handle an existing scene, now being used to destroy the subject.
Even disconnection. It is being horribly abused in the corporate Church today. It is a complete inversion of the original intention of the policies. In the early seventies my family wasn’t happy about me being in Scientology. The policy was handle or disconnect. Handlings included getting in comm and using ‘good roads’ etc. I did that and it was just right. When I was with my family we talked about all of the things that we already loved and just didn’t get into Scientology. We just maintained our already existing happy relations. It worked. When I went to Flag in around 2006 I came back with a huge program to handle individuals that I was on good terms with. It would have totally enflamed the scene. This is an example of a sane policy being used to harm. Even disconnection has its place. There really are those very few out there who want to upset and destroy. For the first time in my life I have recently had to disconnect from someone and it has nothing to do with Scientology. LRH could see that in some few cases disconnection was the answer. Now the corporate Church has totally lost the concept of what an SP actually is and the disconnection policy is used to destroy.
I am always researching in to LRH’s final days. I’m not sold on him being a drug addict when he died. There is much to learn and understand about those final days.
Anyway, sorry for the long response to your comment. Once I get going…
Cheers
Nora, I assume you are referring to the administration of Vistaril during LRH’s final days. Only those who don’t bother with any research at all, but jump to conclusions about “hooked on psych drugs” have ever bought into this. If you research Vistaril, you will see it is used for chronic pain. LRH had pancreatitis which is extremely painful. Dr. Denk prescribed Vistaril. Believe me, Dr. Denk would not be prescribing “psych drugs” to LRH. Read the account of Sarge (Steve Pfauth) at the end of Larry Wright’s book and Marty’s interview with Sarge on his blog. They will give you a pretty good idea. Sarge is the only living person that was there at the time. It’s a first hand account. And he LOVED LRH like a father. Drug addict, No. In bad shape, yes.
Thanks for this Mike.
Glad you’re honestly looking Nora. Personal integrity is flagrantly out in the bubble.
Thank you for this info Mike!
Nora: Thanks for adding more comment to your 2013 story of coming out of the COS without losing faith in the basics of Scientology. I checked it out around the same time you joined and decided it was not for me. Interesting that both you and Mike R.are suggesting that LRH was not addicted to drugs at the time of his death as I hadn’t heard that view of events. The addiction has been repeated by detractors of LRH many times. Always two sides to everything.
Nora, thank you for your views. I see things the same. It is people who have fouled up the organization. And perverted the tech. Scientology works when applied standardly. I know this only because I’ve experienced it, not because i want to believe it or because someone told me so.
Thank you so much. That was an amazingly thoughtful and heartbreaking account. You are an inspiration to parents everywhere. Refusing to be manipulated and abused at the expense of not seeing your children is a decision that no one should ever have to make. Then for this Cult to say that disconnection does not exist IS insane.
I hope that your daughter realizes soon that love and family are much more important than building more unused buildings for an aging sociopath.
Thanks for this writeup, Bob. You put up with so much, and gave the RCS the benefit of every doubt, before leaving. It sometimes seems as if they hurt the brave and well-intentioned people the hardest.
Nice work, Bob and Sharon – and great write-up. Every day another fine individual walks away from the insanity I feel a little lighter of step. And great comments one and all – for once I have read them all!
Bob,
What a well told story. Your writing style is quite enjoyable — never lost me for a second and since I have been reading stories, blogs, message boards, FB postings, news articles, etc for the last, going on 5 years now, I tend to skim a lot in the interest of time.
I read every single word and could have read more.
I can’t say enough times how heartbreaking I find all of this disconnection. That is Scientology’s worse policy and product — period. I don’t think anyone could argue with that. I have always held, in exceptionally high regard, all those who boldly, courageously and painfully choose their own integrity and own guidance to follow vs acquiescing to the bullying demands of the church — all at the risk of losing everything.
Thank you to both you and Sharon
Sharon, outright prolonged laughter on the LRH Douchebag FB thing…that was just plain hilarious. Sense of humor people…don’t anyone get offended please.
Thank You Sindy! I am glad you liked it. As far as the douche bag comment…telling it now is funny but at the time, one can only imagine the HE&R it caused on our end!
Bob and Sharon, Thank you for telling your story. I am another suffering from the consequences of the “Disconnection Policy” and I appreciate the courage it took for you to do what you did. You said “Enough!” and for that, the current church will try to exact its revenge in any way it can. The church is losing and will continue to lose. Then it will be over.
I look forward to the day when we can all be reunited with those we love and care about, and when the abuses against human rights that this church practices ends.
Me too! Here’s wishing you the best.
I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who responded to my story whether you agree or disagree with what I had to say. This is my story as I lived it. I too had wins and gains from doing some parts of Scientology, especially early on. That’s why I said, “I will give the subject of Scientology the benefit of the doubt, that it has limited workability but there is no actual science behind it at all, so it’s not a mystery as to why it doesn’t work for everyone, 100% of the time and why so many have become disillusioned and left the church.” My god, one can listen to some of the SHSBC tapes and practically hear LRH making it up as he spoke. Still, I don’t have a problem with anyone who wants to believe or practice it, as long as they don’t try to enforce the belief on me. But, enforcing the belief on others is in it’s DNA.
– KSW –
The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.
Miscavige probably is a little pecker head who’s acting out for whatever reason, but in the end, he is attempting to do exactly as LRH said to do. Yes, he’ll mess it all up but he can’t change the “technology” or it wouldn’t be Scientology any longer.
– KSW-
I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long-run value and none were major or basic; and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repented and eventually had to “eat crow.”
Not long after I left Scientology, I attended a progressive Christian Church and I still get keyed out over something the minister said that day. He said, “One of the differences between this church and other religions, is that you can be here….or not. You’re free to make the choice. It is your decision.” My self determinism was not being overwhelmed by a religion for the first time in 30+ years. I just sat there and quietly wept.
:(.
That’s a powerful image Bob. My daughter also decided to attend a Christian church that’s very theta, but she is also doing L’s as an indie. haha! She wants all her cakes. I wish you and your wife much peace in however you proceed.
Bob,
It comes across as credible to me that your account of what happened was accurate. I just want to go down on record here that up until the mid 90’s I was, for the most part, treated extremely well in Scientology. I spent 16 years getting auditing, studying or working for Scientology. I remember reading DMSMH on my solo auditor’s coarse. At the end of the book I told the supervisor that the book couldn’t possibly be true because no one exists anywhere that comes close to what is described as a clear in that book. I was never invalidated by anyone. The was the norm when I questioned anything in Scientology. One day, around 1993, everything changed and from that point on everything I experienced was similar to what you experienced.
Today, I consider my education in Scientology to be the foundation for what I do in my life. I do believe that the Church of Scientology is dead. I hope something evolves from this that can deliver the remarkable goods things LRH developed.
Paul, I have to agree with some of this. When Santa Barbara COS was a mission, all of us, including the staff would hang out and have a great time after closing on Friday night. The reg cycles were mild and course was much more fun. Then it changed.
Thanks Paul J, good data.
Great write up Bob. Sorry you lost all that money & time. But, it had to happen with “The Church”. Trying to keep all of Hubbard’s lies “up in the air” like so many spinning plates crated the insanity that was/is the delivery of the Bridge. That things really started collapsing right after the release of OT VIII (the first REAL OT level with a provable [or falsifiable] E.P. stated by Hubbard Hisself.) was inevitable.
He should have just kept it a simple self help subject without all the massive hyperbole. But, then he wouldn’t have made millions and had slave like minions. Wouldn’t have worked for a sociopath.
Wow, the level of insanity you encountered at the upper levels is just mind -boggling…
And I so feel this:
“If you want to make a lie – stick – build it on some basic truths that the person can buy into. When one starts receiving auditing or basic courses at the beginning of Scientology, there are some basic truths to be discovered. These truths have been around, in one form or another, for a long time and LRH did a fantastic job collecting and organizing these things. But, once a person discovers these “truths” in Scientology, they can trap a person. Why? Because when one arrives at the upper levels, one tends to believe, because some of the basics were true, that the science fiction nonsense, on these upper levels must also be true.”
This is exactly what kept me involved long after I should have left (early lower bridge stuff was life-changing for me but just about everything afterward was a collosal waste of time).
Yup! Totally!
Thanks for telling your story. I hope your daughter and her family come back to you soon. Disconnection is one of the most abhorrent and invidious of the church practices. Of course, your story contains some of the others as well, like holding people against their will (Freewinds), lying to obtain money and compliance, discouraging people from necessary medical care…
I could go one but it’s already up there in your story. That it resonates with so many others demonstrates a pattern and practice by the church (no matter how often or loudly they protest). Honestly telling your story helps spread the word and makes it more difficult for the church’s public lies to be believed by the general public that are only peripherally aware of Scientology.
I wish you well in all your future endeavors.
Well regardless of LRH’s shortcomings, and people thinking he was a charlatan, and despite the Church of Scamology and it’s looser leader the Dimwit Masquerader, I have had astounding wins from doing most actions.
I have had exteriorisations that have left me speechless, I have seen things before they happened altered events, even saved a life or two. I have postulated action and occurrences, helped people with or without a body, laughed my head off, and truly felt wonderment and happiness…
Sure I have had massive failures in and out of the org, behaved like a moron, didn’t apply, wondered ‘what I was thinking’, and glad for the experiences both good and bad and
Scientology works… the tech works for me…and LRH is a Legend…
It may not be a perfect Science but sure has been fun.
+1
Right on Graham!
Truly.
Well said Graham. To me, the issue of personal responsibility has got to be a part of most things we do in life. I’ve had so many experiences, in and out of Scn where I had to make tough decisions in the face of something not optimum. I find that when I fought for something I felt was right, or just, even if I lost, I still came out the other side ok.
I’m from South Africa and we have a blog called, Scientologists back in comm. On our blog, we recognise that we’re all at different stages of our leaving and decompressing but that we have a right to swing from one side to the other as we find out more and more. That is our right.
Alanzo is expressing him viewpoint and he may have more data than most from which to express it. There are some horrific facts to be found out, that’s for sure. In the meantime, in my opinion, whether it makes me popular or not, no matter, there is still some koolaider behaviour out here in the Free Zone.
We have been fed many lies, by the man himself. I believe Alanzo has had a look and is coming from a different place, more enlightened. What he’s seen is not nice, believe me. I’ve seen it too.
Thanks, Canspeakatleast –
I appreciate your comments.
I do recognize that people will have different views on Scientology than mine, and I know plenty of people who are happily being Scientologists outside the Church, and I am happy they have a non-abusive place to go to practice it.
When someone has been exposed to all the data about Scientology and LRH that is available now, and they make their own informed decisions about their own involvement, and they are allowed to question and to keep their own eyes open for their own self-interests, then this is what I think we have all been working for.
Informed decision-making on Scientology is the Ideal Scene, as I see it.
Alanzo
Informed decision-making on Scientology is the Ideal Scene, as I see it.
Only a fool could disagree with this.
Well stated Alanzo.
“When someone has been exposed to all the data about Scientology and LRH that is available now, and they make their own informed decisions about their own involvement, and they are allowed to question and to keep their own eyes open for their own self-interests, then this is what I think we have all been working for.”
I couldn’t agree more!
I completely appreciate and acknowledge Alonzo’s viewpoint. It is a common one of those to whom “Black” or Reverse” scientology has been applied. I am most disturbed that he did not receive standard tech.
Regarding koolaider behavior in the Free Zone, unfortunately there are plenty of haters here as well.
Well thanks, Ron.
I can see that you have compassion in your heart for a poor sucker like me who never had the chance to experience the purity of the technology as it exists in the Freezone.
Alanzo
$cientology creates more ruins than you started with. I know there’s so much more to it, as you have displayed, but IMO – that’s the scam. The drama is just a bonus to your hell.
Thank you for your story and thanks for all the comments. Like Mike said in response to one, it is fascinating to see ‘fundamentalism’ at both ends.
Yes, the Communications Course (“Comm Course” – for short), as was taught in the 70’s, is a hell-of-a-course. It really did, at least to me, what it promised, and was FUNDAMENTAL in experiencing my immortal self. Going exterior on the first two exercises, called “OT TR 0” and “TR 0”, was well worth ALL the trouble of later years and experiences (good and bad) in the Church of Scientology (as was the auditing called “ARC Straightwire”). Since I never reached any of the upper levels of auditing, I cannot comment on these, but it seemed to me that the lower level stuff of Scientology (as a philosophy) does have some workability in improving ones life greatly — in respects to “Who am I?” and such type of fundamental questions.
The practices of the Church as such, however, are in no way corresponding with these philosophic values I found in the basic teachings of lower level materials (such as “Communications Formula”, “Affinity-Reality-Communications Triangle” (ARC Triangle), and so on.
While various wired registration practices have been occurring since I have know the Church (early 70’s), it surely has gone much more worse and ‘intense’ since DM has been at the helm. And that might well be the undoing of the ‘Church of Scientology’ as such — but hopefully not for the subject. Even though I have left the Church and have not taken any Scientology services for a long time, some very basic data and procedures of L. Ron Hubbard’s teachings are tremendously helpful and, to my knowledge, not found in that easily absorb-able form anywhere else.
I know, the above comment might cause a counter-reaction from whose who say that everything L. Ron Hubbard said or did was wrong. I have seen in others and observed personally the opposite to a good degree — and that degree is within the lower levels — Dianetics (as in ‘Book 1’), Communications Course, HQS Course (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist), Life Repair auditing, ARC Straightwire auditing.
Nevertheless, DM, with all he instituted, is destroying the ‘Church of Scientology’ (no matter what anyone believes or says about the philosophical subject) — and on that point, I believe, all agree.
Well said Lawrence, thanks.
Lawrence, loved what you had to say regarding the Comm Course. When done correctly, it alone can make significant changes in the individual. In one Mission I knew of, the CC was, unlike the quickie course delivered in most orgs, a 6 to 8 WEEK course, as tough as any I’ve seen. Near the end of the 70s, they had produced TWELVE Clears, all later validated by AO. No one got away with anything in that course room and they did it until they got it. Was so amazing to see so many lives changed by that one course!
And for those of you who are “never ins”, you will never even begin to suspect how much sheer FUN it was back in those heady days. My guess is that the FUN is back alive again at the Dror Center, and others like it.
I know what you’re talking that. They had real HCOBs on that course and tough supervisors. I still have wins from the Comm Course I did 40 years ago.
Ditto dude.
Hello Alanzo,
Roy’s comment sums it up perfectly. Thank you Roy! Just to clarify:
You may be right about Ron’s finances prior to Dianetics. This is not an important point. In general, I believe sane people are not money motivated, not even Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. They do what they love, are successful at it and have become wealthy.
I too happen to own a lot of property and am well-off. Still, I dedicate most of my time and resources to making Scientology available to others. I put into it much more than I get out financially and am rewarded by the joy of seeing others prospering.
Concerning “Clear” and “OT”, I may not be Clear precisely according to a specific definition in a book. But I do know I am in a much better state after Scientology than before it, this lifetime and many more that have preceded it.
Scientology, as I’ve written earlier, is not a belief. I do it and I see what it does for me and for thousands of others.
I think you have not had any auditing. You are welcome to try it and see for yourself.
Nice response Dani.
Thanks for your reply, Dani.
I’ve actually had a lot of auditing, from some of the best auditors in Scientology, even. And training and staff experience too. I know what Scientology can do, and what it can’t do.
My mixed results in Scientology are pretty typical if you take into account all the stories like Bob’s, which are all over the internet and I’ve been reading them for more than 14 years now.
I do think that it is possible to deliver Scientology safely to people, without all the damage that Scientology has caused people for decades. I think that the more you can respond to the experiences of people like me, the better your business is going to do in Israel.
I wish you very good luck in your endeavors, and I’m sure we’ll be seeing each other around again!
Alanzo
Alanzo,
You ask Dani for evidence. Mike says Dani doesn’t owe you this, and he is right. And his note on fandamentalism on both sides of the fence is a study in sanity and wisdom. As for me I owe Dani nothing, because we are in perfect exchange, and the thanks for having a place like Dror I give him freely,not owed. You say: I know what scientology can and can’t do. IMHO, you are missing or lacking practicing the subject as an Indie. Be it under a professional and FREE Indie group or auditor. Never done this, or am I wrong? I have, for long time now. It is totally different from doing it under the yoke of the CoS. You should try it for once, You might get the surprise of your life. So much so, that it might seem “another tech”.Then, you will be able to understand Dani better or claim not to. And you will be truly informed too. Just a suggestion. As for me, I do know some of what sc. can do, Here I attach below 2 of my recent wins from Nots auditing written spontaneously with my own hands.They can validate a bit what I wrote above. And no, I don’t know yet what Scn can’t do. Can you really? Greetings from Israel.
Hemi
Auditing on Nots 4.10.2013 – as an Indie: free, full ARC no “agendas” but help/love/respect.
What a week I’ve had, incredible! An intensive auditing week…hard and complex work.
Not all is easy on that level. But every time, I came better and stronger.
Yes, the greater the difficulty, the greater the happiness in overcoming.
I’ve written before about this amazing, crazy, interesting, charming, lunatic, and enchanting level. And this kind of things repeat over and over. And now and then, after confronting and releasing necessary elements, a great and enchanting miracle occurs: connecting to an inside deep flowing, clear spring of pure bliss, happiness, and great love. The heart opens up, and the spirit, me, grows and overflows. And the happiness, yes, yes, that happiness deep inside, about which poets write great poems, and legends and hair-raising tales are told, describing attempts to obtain it through dangerous journeys to mounts of doom or through spells by the witch from the dark forest…but in the end everybody knows it is the inner bliss of being oneself.
Who is a Warrior and a Hero? One who conquers himself. I discover territories in me, huge, fertile, flourishing, and most important Loving, and I give up alien ones, pretending to be mine but are not such at all. Ones which I don’t really want, but can and need to let go.
And so, more and more peace treaties are signed within me, and war declarations dumped away, to happy cheers and beautiful, colorful fireworks. And I really like this process of peace and Love, and am continuing with it. Because there is much more work. And much more peace. And an ocean of Love. Thanks Ron, how the hell did you discover and do this? Huge thanks to the wonderful “witch” from the room up there in the clouds, at Dror Center, Tami Lemberger!! Well, white fairy, rather…Her will to help, enormous knowledge, ability, and above all a vast Love for people and beings, are spells which nothing can resist.
Happy, full of Love, for all of you.
Hemi
Auditing on NOTS 27.10.2013 – as an Indie:
On the mental, spiritual level, apart from the many wins I have had recently, as a spirit – this is important – I realize that I am becoming more and more tolerant, relaxed, less argumentative, less “needing to be right”. These are important things and I am proud of them. And I need these kind of wins. For years I have not been tolerant enough, too argument happy, and over needing to be right. The reasons for these shifts:
* This wonderful auditing: which peels more and more layers and phobias and nonsense and other vegetables, which do not belong to me, but which I bought and even paid for.
* The fact that I feel good, more and more: this automatically gives more space to those around me, and makes me truly wishing them well too.
* The work as an Indie: This is a very very important element, especially for me, on the whole subject of patience and tolerance and accepting others no matter what. This was a problematic area in the CoS and its way, also under part of Ron’s Policy to which I object, namely, that we know it all and others are Zero. Doesn’t work. And wonder of wonders, suddenly people are listening to me more and more, and respect and appreciate much more. Because I explain mainly by Being, and setting example and granting beingness…and I am not a foreign body in any group of people but a part of it. So much Funnnnn too! Reminds me of the saying: “Endless patience, brings immediate results…”
Deep Thanks to my auditor and the incredible team work we do, the like of which I have never encountered before. To my charming C/S too – thank you both for working exclusively for ME, I understand this and I am deeply touched. and thanks to all this Indie group which create this atmosphere of truth and freedom. Cheers to you all.
Love,
Hemi
. . … . .
Al, have you done ARC Straightwire, or the Grades 0-IV yet?
As I understand it from your own posts in various places, the auditing you had was almost entirely a lot of FPRD and sec checks. Those of course are not any of the actual “Bridge”. And how about Grades 5 and 6? Or the Clearing course, or Clear Certainty?
Thanks for your comment Val.
It made me aware of a subtle invalidation of my auditing that Dani had made to me, twice now, and I can see that you are doing it too.
Are my experiences with my own auditing invalid compared to yours? I mean, is what is true for me not true if the testimony I give for my auditing not as “Rah! Rah!” as you think it should be?
Let me know.
Alanzo
Poor Al, feels ‘invalidated’ by folks who don’t all agree on his take on scientology. ‘Subtly invalidated’, no less. Well, let me quit being ‘subtle’ about it!
First off, I was commenting on your comment on Dani’s post. I think this is OK for me to do, per this: “That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.” If you feel ‘invalidated’ by a difference of opinion, that sounds like a personal problem to me.
What spurred me to comment at all is your point #2, that in 64 years not one single Clear (by LRH’s definition) was created or achieved.
This absolute statement is arrogant nonsense. How the heck would you know? First off, LRH redefined ‘Clear’ over the years, and I met people back in the 1970s and 1980s who felt they had in fact achieved the ‘state of Clear’ as they understood it, per some definition or other of LRH’s. That ‘falsifies’ your statement right there. How do you know ‘no-one’ achieved it? If even ONE person achieved Clear by any definition of LRH, your absolute statement is falsified, and there really is no way for you, me, or any other 3rd party to know that ‘no-one’ achieved it.
This of course is how you usually have drawn fire from me over the years – by making apparently rational posts, then throwing in your propagandistic ‘zingers’ as a punchline. It has struck me at times over the past 5 years or so, as a deliberate attempt to ‘brainwash’ your readers. Or, you simply can’t help yourself, because this has been pointed out to you repeatedly on several blogs.
Now, you have apparently completely misread the intent and purpose of my post to you, asking you if you have done ‘the Bridge’. It is very relevant, in view of your presentation of yourself as an ‘expert’ on all aspects of scientology, Scientology, and the CoS.
If you have not done ‘the Bridge’, you are not an ‘expert’ on the Bridge.
If you have not done ARC Straightwire, or the Grades of release, you have not done the Bridge as those are integral parts of the Bridge, and therefore are a pretender to being an expert on it.
If you stuck to posting your own experience as your own experience, and your own OPINIONS as your own opinions, instead of asserting your opinions as FACTS, you wouldn’t be getting this ‘invalidating’ flak from me.
What you say about ‘Clear’ could in some sense be true, although there are apparently many who would disagree with you, but for you to baldly assert it as an absolute FACT, rather than your opinion, indicates to me, either as deliberate propaganda, or an emotionally driven fixed delusion on your part.
So which is it? And, let’s not forget my original questions to you about your Bridge experience – how much, if any at all, of the Bridge have you done, either as pc or auditor?
Please let me know if you do not feel sufficiently invalidated yet. After all, I am just trying to help you…. 🙂
It’s always such a pleasure to speak with you, Valkov.
Here: Let’s have Scientology celebrity and OT 5, Class 5 Jason Beghe talk to you about Clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9LrxLkxiY
Alanzo
Having no answer of his own to the content of my post, Al tries to pull an ‘authority’ out of his hat, by his ears no doubt. Jason’s ears must be getting sore by now!
So here we have Jason’s opinions. How are they relevant to what I posted. They are not.
I HAVE DELETED THE REST OF THIS POST AS YOU DEEM SOMEHOW QUALIFIED TO NOW MAKE WHOLECLOTH EVALUATIONS OF JASON BEGHE?
I DON’T KNOW WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE, BUT JASON AND HIS FAMILY ARE VERY CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDS OF MINE AND I DON’T KNOW YOU FROM A BAR OF SOAP. SO, YOU DON’T GET THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TRASH HIM HERE WITH YOUR FOOLISH “CASE ASSESSMENTS.” THIS DOESNT EVEN QUALIFY AS EXECUTIVE C/SING. IT’S PEANUT GALLERY C/SING.
I’M NOT GOING TO POST ANY MORE BACK AND FORTH BARBS FROM EITHER YOU OR ALANZO ON THIS SUBJECT.
YOU BOTH HAD YOUR SAY. NEITHER OF YOU IS GOING TO CONVINCE THE OTHER (NOR LIKELY ANYONE ELSE).
Hemi wrote:
You say: I know what scientology can and can’t do. IMHO, you are missing or lacking practicing the subject as an Indie. Be it under a professional and FREE Indie group or auditor. Never done this, or am I wrong? I have, for long time now. It is totally different from doing it under the yoke of the CoS. You should try it for once, You might get the surprise of your life. So much so, that it might seem “another tech”.Then, you will be able to understand Dani better or claim not to. And you will be truly informed too. Just a suggestion.
I appreciate your reply here, Hemi.
Yours is more of a subtle evaluation of my experiences with my own auditing, rather than the subtle invalidations of it from Dani and Valkov.
I understand that you are simply evaluating my experience with my auditing in order to recruit me into the Indies, and I also see that you are doing that because you want me to have the same kinds of wins as you have had.
So okay.
You should know that I did have many life changing wins in my auditing. And that I still consider that I have many of them.
For instance, on my FPRD Basic list, which was C/Sed by a Class 9 auditor, Barb Rubio and delivered to me by a Class 8 auditor, Melanie Murray, who worked directly with LRH on tech matters in the CMO, I realized that I was in a sea of energy, and I see the physical universe completely differently than I ever had before. I still can see it that way today and I consider this a form of enlightenment which I got from my Scientology auditing.
You have to understand though, auditing as developed by LRH is not the only spiritual practice that a person can get wins from, and auditing for me has run its course. You can only go back in time so many ways and then it’s utility becomes used up. The gains that a person can get from auditing are entirely finite. Unless you want to do the Bridge over and over like DM makes you do.
And what happens on the OT Levels can certainly be handled way better than they are in LRH’s tech. That is very plain to me, and I will not be availing myself of LRH’s views of that phenomena, as I disagree that his handling of this makes a person saner or more able.
So thanks for your invitation. I know that it was meant in a very helpful spirit.
Alanzo
Dani wrote:
I think you have not had any auditing. You are welcome to try it and see for yourself.
You’ve said this to me before, Dani, and I am just wondering:
Are you invalidating my auditing?
Why would you feel the need to do that?
Please explain.
Alanzo
Alanzo wrote:
You have to understand though, auditing as developed by LRH is not the only spiritual practice that a person can get wins from, and auditing for me has run its course.
Absolutely Alanzo.This is exactly what I am talking about.
Being an Indie and doing spiritual work freely – and in fact any true spiritual work that does lead anywhere, has to inevitably lead to openness, RESPECT for other spiritual works and practices and buckets of tolerance. Think, by Ron’s own principles, if you use force to convince, instead of theta-love-arc, you will suppress, not enlighten. If you think you know it all, you stop learning (and become a stupid prick-my addition..). And if Ron did not apply some (or many) of the truths he found – tough luck for him, and he has my sympathy.
So we are in total agreement on this. If you get wins from doing anything, that’s just GREAT, period. And I surely will make a note of the tool that you used. You know why?
Because that’s what freedom is all about. And it is also about this: If I am right and happy about something, and you think differently on that something and happy with it, hell, you are right too!!! I don’t need to enforce my rightness by proving anybody wrong. NOPE!!! Done with that. And I reserve the right to find me WRONG, if I observe so.
I have much more on this, but I’ll just end off saying this:
Leaving the CoS, enabled me to get free of the hate/suppress/fanatic “spiritual work”.
Practicing the tech as Indie, thaklfully, enabled me to be just this:
A valid, humble spiritual seeker. That’s all. (Well, and quite curious and juicy too!!-:)))
Btw, your win on the FPRD is Beeeeutiful!! absolutely!
Namaste,
Hemi
Thanks, Hemi.
You’re a good guy.
There are so many good people like you in Scientology.
It’s why I stick around.
Alanzo
Thank you for telling your story! In case you haven’t heard this advice from Steve Hassan, I think it’s pretty good: They may have disconnected from you, but you don’t have to disconnect from them. Communicate often and using all means possible. Let them know that the moment they want to talk, you’ve got a big hug for them.
You’re lucky they aren’t on staff and you have public access to them! I really hope your daughter comes to her senses and you get back in touch soon.
And if they moved or changed their phone number, I’d pay a service to find them again, which is pretty cheap these days. I doubt “My parents are stalking me” would hold much water with police.
Wow Bob, I knew you had a tough time but did not know the full story. I also know that Sharon has an equally horrendous story of her own.
Bob and Sharon are 2 of the nicest people one would want to know and I am happy to see you both looking well and happy. 🙂
Bob and Sharon your story is shocking and very touching. Thanks
Since you like audio books, I highly recommend Franz Kafka “The Trial”
http://www.amazon.com/The-Trial-Franz-Kafka/dp/1451578644?&linkCode=waf&tag=kafka00-20
That is what Scientology’s byzantine, Technical, Admin and Justice System has metamorphosed into.
It is a bizarre and dangerous labyrinth. And yes, this horrible creation came out of the mind of Hubbard.
I’ve had some horrible experiences with scientology. It started good. 1973 Davis Mission, the Comm Course, PRD, It was great stuff, nothing like it. Later on the levels, internships, co-audits, the SHSBC.
In the early 90’s something went horribly wrong and I had an experience that I’m still trying to sort out. I ended up leaving scientology for 20 years. What I missed in that time was Miscavage’s (the coup’s) consolidation of power. When I came back in 2007 I never fit in, hated Miscavage and am glad to be gone.
But I never doubted LRH for one second. And OTIII just floats my needle. I love that stuff. (Marty says’s in his book “What is Wrong with Scientology” you shouldn’t take OTIII literally — I take it totally literally.)
I have no doubts about LRH and “Standard Tech”.
To each their own. I’ll find what I’m looking for in the “Indy” community. Others will just walk away.
Right you are Ash. Some will find what they are looking for and some will walk away. Can those who find what they are looking for acknowledge those who walk away as not being a “lesser” person somehow because of it. And can those who walk away recognize that those who find something they are looking for in scientology are not just “deluded fools.”
Fundamentalism on either side of this equation is equally as ugly. It’s amazing how much name calling and labels there are associated with this. A fundamentalist scientologist looks at someone that walks away and puts them in a number of pigeon holes, from the nicest “they have MU’s” to “they are NCG” “they have committed continuous present time overts” to the “they are an SP.” And those who object to anything about scientology and feel nobody should find anything beneficial in it at all look upon those who find something of benefit with disdain and categorize them as “brainwashed”, “deluded”, “weak” or “unintelligent.”
It’s somewhat amusing to see how people can assume to “know” what is true for someone else.
Thanks Mike for stating something that needed to be said. Intolerance and fanaticism on either side is counter productive.
I’m still trying to make sense of what happened to Scientology and to to find my way in the aftermath. I’m really in no position to judge anyone. I’m just glad there’s an Indy community I can turn to.
Mike , your common sense , lightness of being and wicked sense of humor can always be counted on to set things in a straight line again. Such a pleasure to read your comments and posts. Thank You
It is the first time I comment with my real name.
We were declared before thanksgiving last year, apparently a busy time for the MAAs.
Hope Bob and Sharon and countless others, us included , get their family back.It is an abomination and a mind boggling thing to happen in the “Land of the Free”.
Welcome Marie. Nice to have you posting here 🙂
And the home of the slaves.
Nice summation Mike
“What’s true for you is true”
Wins, losses, who am I to judge?
If anything is real to you then it is real.
All I know is RCo$ invalidates you know matter what you feel. Control lies in keeping a person down, it’s der Midget’s modus operandi.
Isn’t he the only member of his family still in? Seems to me his family disconnected from him.
They’re no doubt all SP’s. 😉
Mike, sometimes I really appreciate it when someone says what’s on my mind far better than I could have articulated it myself. You just did that and I thank you.
I was out selling books one time and a young couple came over to my table. Both of them had just found each other and were engaged to be married. Both of them had found Christ and felt cleansed of their sins. Both of them, on the stress test had beeeeautiful floating needles and the good indicators to go with it. I just smiled at them and said “doing pretty good?” They answered yes. All I said to them was, “that’s wonderful.”
In the world of scientology serv fac land, I committed an overt by not pushing and finding their ruins because every one knows they are just duped and will never “make it.” In my world I just made a couple of friends instead of enemies.
I personally believe there’s a lot of value to much of Hubbard’s tech. I deliver it every day and see it work. One thing that doesn’t work is selling something to a person when he doesn’t need it and then blaming the person when he doesn’t get any gains from it. Another thing that doesn’t work is being dishonest about what can actually be gained from any level and then trying to force the person to pretend he got gains he didn’t.
I personally got more than I expected from scientology. Many people feel they got way less than expected or nothing or got worse.
Scientology is NOT the universal solvent. Love, honest communication and caring about other people as well as oneself is.
Wise words LDW.
Good comment Mike.
Perfect Mike!
Good on you Ashaman.
“LDW, sometimes I really appreciate it when someone says what’s on my mind far better than I could have articulated it myself. You just did that and I thank you.”
Just quoted you, only changed the name…ha ha. And feel the same about Mikes comments here. You are both wise and brilliant.
If you don’t take it literally then how do you audit OTIV through OTVII?
I should have written that ‘if a person doesn’t take it literally…’ since I realize that you, Ashaman, do take it literally.
Wow Bob Thanks so much for writing this up. The world needs this information.
I was “in” from 1970 to 2005, up to New OT V.
For me it has taken years to decompress, mainly because it has taken years for information to become available on the internet. Today there is a wealth of information and even, as you said, Barefaced Messiah … is out..
Scientology is the fastest growing religion in the world, IF you include the people who have contacted or learned about it and now have a seriously negative opinion of it. In fact, most of the people “in” have a seriously negative view of their own position in Scientology but can’t get out because of disconnection from friends and family. It’s a trap and I am happy to see you got out.
So, spread the word.
If you want to add your real name to the Indy 500 list, here it is:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/the-indie-500.html
Hi Bob and Sharon, your story is so much like ours, right down to owning an electronics company and having my son and three other employees disconnect.
I also experienced Harold Simms. I appreciate your statement about his behavior because I never before could understand why, when I completed the final checkout to go start on my auditing, he reached out and squeezed my knee so hard I almost screamed from the pain–weird to say the least!
I also had auditors so overworked that they fell asleep in session but I loved each one of them so much that I would never have reported it!
There was a time at Flag when another person kept “bumping” to go back into session instead of me–I finally left and rode the bus for several hours. That got their attention!
So thanks very much for your writeup. I did get gains and I did see results from OT levels, but now I have observed that the first step on the bridge should have been something like: “The past is done, the only reason it is affecting you is because you are re-creating it (Joe is not still stepping on your toe after all these millions of years…) So now we need to find and cease the reasons why you are still creating all that.”
This would have shortened the bridge by 10,000%. Instead, we were trained into the idea that all of that old stuff needed to be addressed; that the only one who could address it was the church; and that we had to propitiate enormously to get their grudging permission to be allowed to let them help us if we ever reached that pie in the sky level that was finally going to handle it…
Hope to meet you sometime. Best to Sharon and I’m glad she actually found a health professional who could help. –Lynne
I remember Harold…..never felt very comfortable
around him. Kinda like his way or the highway
type of attitude.
Harold, read the accusation!
Hello Bob, I’m glad you have been able to disentangle yourself from the corporate Church and I am very sorry to hear of the situation with your daughter. I hope that will be resolved.
I would like to add, however, that the part of your story that really resonated with me was the wins you had on the communications course and life repair. It is my opinion that THAT is what Scientology is all about.
It is everyone’s personal right to do or not do Scientology and if the rest of Scientology is not for you then that is of course your right. If, however, you would like to experience some of those early wins and gains again there are practitioners in the field that are offering the real deal without all the money grabbing and militaristic control. I have received services at one centre that was so full of true care for the individual my TA blew down just walking in the door.
The corporate Church is not practicing true Scientology. It is practicing what Ron referred to in 1952 as “black” Dianetics. The gains of Scientology are available in the field for those who wish to have them.
The corporate Church is a corrupt organization that is causing untold pain and harm. That is NOT Scientology and it saddens me when the whole subject is thrown out because of the crimes of the corporate Church.
I note that many of us are embarrassed that we stayed in the corporate Church of Scientology so long even though we saw the outnesses and injustices. I would propose that we stayed there because in its pure form it helped us. I for one am grateful for that and am loving receiving services in the field.
And I have to admit that I admire L Ron Hubbard (seems to be an unpopular stance in some quarters). He was not perfect. But he developed some amazing technology that works for many people (I refer to genuine wins in the field – not the canned ones that the corporate Church puts out that tend to invalidate because they can’t be lived up to). It would be a huge loss for all if the philosophy and technology died along with the corporate Church. Fortunately that is not happening.
My bottom line – Scientology and the corporate Church of Scientology are NOT the same thing.
Again, I really wish you well and hope that the situation with your daughter and her family will be resolved.
Well said Nora.
Thank you Bob for your story.
All the best to you and Sharon
and a strong postulate that your
family will be together once again.
Beautifully expressed Nora. I too received immense gains from doing the Comm Course for a pittance. It seems now that your gains are inversely proportional to the money “donated.”
Good response, Nora.
The good and the bad are both available. Everyone, even those still “in”, get to choose which one.
Alonzo, in one of his replies, also made an excellent point, i.e., the wins one gets from scientology belong to the one who got them. One can thank the auditor, LRH, the C/S, their FSM or anyone else they choose for the help in getting there…but the WINS belong to the preclear or preOT, not anyone else. They are the ones who have to dig, to “Do the Work”, as I like to put it. And, hopefully, they will spend the rest of their lives continuing to “Do the Work” no matter what road or system they choose. It may be tough at times, but it’s really a quite beautiful path.
Hating or despising LRH, Miscavige or, for that matter, anyone else, harms only the hater/despiser, no one else. Does anyone think for a single moment that Miscavige gives a damn for their opinion? Or that hating/despising a dead man actually does any good for anyone? Or even has any effect other than to make oneself feel more miserable?
Life is to be lived, cherished, loved and understood. That it takes so many of us – and I surely include myself – to learn that lesson, is really frustrating. But the learning, and the prices paid, are more than worth the journey, IMHO.
Excellent comment Nora.
Truly.
Very insightful.
For any organization to deliver a quality product, its staff must be well trained and well cared for. Your Scientology experiences agree with mine, which span a 35 year period: With few exceptions, SO members (especially) and staff members struggle to do their jobs while denied the basic necessities of life (adequate food, shelter, sleep and medical care).
The result is that this so-called church charges premium prices for products & services delivered by what is essentially slave labour. When you object to the low quality of the spiritual counselling provided by this slave labour, you are blamed and then are made to pay for more defective counselling in order for them to correct the original defective counselling! Now THAT is a dwindling spiral!
Dave’s day of reckoning is coming. Trust me.
I do trust you, MJ! And I believe what you posted! It’s all falling apart quite quickly! Hip, hip…
Hooray!!!!!!! This time the exclamation marks are well justified.
Great comment
Thank you, Bob and Sharon. And well done.
Excellent job, Bob! I particularly value your exposition of why people join Scientology – that it’s fun to start with and, in the initial stages anyway, some of it actually works – facts that have tended to get overlooked recently. Your inside track on Kirstie Alley’s early pampering as a ‘celeb’ in the CoS does a lot to explain her subsequent obnoxious behaviour: she’s turned into a clone of LRH, like so many other “loyal officers” in the “church”. The description of your time stuck on the ‘Freewinds’ – little better than a prison-hulk (even if it does have nice food) – resolved for me at least, the mystery of why this ageing rustbucket continues to infest the Caribbean; though by all accounts it’s now become a serious drain on Miscavige’s resources!
I hope that your daughter comes to her senses very soon, and bursts her way out of the bubble. You and your wife are very brave to speak out in such a forthright way; let’s hope it encourages others in a similar position to break their silence and bring this despicable cult and its psychopathic leader to justice as soon as possible.
Yes Bob and Sharon did an excellent job of showing the paradox of “good” scientology at the start and its evolution into the dark side once they have you hooked. Mark – I wonder though whether the rustwinds is any more than a rounding error on the Dear Misleader’s balance sheet given the investment income he has rolling in? That’s despite recent setbacks in new dough.
It would be nice to think about a big public and publicised celebration of reconnection despite the odds sometime soon – . rejoicing in the joy of reconnection of what was forbidden. It’s happened in a few cases recently such as Nick Lister and his parents and I know there have been a few others. But let the landslide happen.and avalanche soon with Sharon and Bob’s daughter realizing where the love is and is not.
A great write up. Thank you. Indicated a lot of things for me.
It also brought to mind a somewhat rhetorical question. But first some facts must be presumed to be true. If a person disconnects as prescribed, it is an admission they are PTS. It is also correct to assume that after disconnecting there would be improvement in the PTS person’s case. If so, how could the technical validity and thus correctness of the disconnection ever be confirmed by the target of the act? His comm line with the “PTS” is totally cut? A true “catch 22” it seems.
Ah yes, grasshopper. God works in mysterious ways. 😉
Refering to MJ: Ah yes, Grasshopper, when you can snatch joke from hand, time for you to leave temple. Hey! I’m a stand-up comic! What were you expecting?
I see you’ve left the building. Freedom is just a hop, skip and a jump for those insectuous type homo novii, don’t you agree?
Hope – Scientology’s most valuable currency.
Thanks for sharing your jaw-dropping and yet all too familiar story. I agree with Jose Chung – I believe things will work out for the best.
Very interesting story Bob.
I think your story will resonate with many others.
What I get from it is the fact that so many people become dependent on Scientology as if it is a security blanket that they drag around. Once I let go of my “blanky” I did much better in life. It is great to choose your own decisions and navigate through life on your own steam.
Scientology is a “construct” as Marty puts it. I like that word “construct”. It was constructed, like a building, and like a building it is a finite thing. There may be some cool “rooms” in that construct, but there may be some bad features in there too. In that construct there are people that try to prevent you from leaving and “going outside” but keep trying to get you to “sit in the living room” over and over when you just want to go outside and run!!
Congratulations on leaving the building!!!
Thanks for sharing your story!
Dear Sharon and Bob,
I congratulate you on coming out and leaving Scientology. I would have only wished you left it many years earlier so that you would spend less money and suffer less aggravation.
Reading your story, it seems you did almost all steps against your desire and under duress. This is actually the basic of PTSness, operating under threat or because of some fear. This is today’s “modus operandi” of the Church, intimidate people, force them to pay for services they do not need or want. Top it off by coercing them to donate for fictitious “projects”.
My experience is that the Tech does work and I have had wonderful wins with most actions I did, including NOTs, L11 and many courses. To accuse Ron for being in it for the money is, I think, absurd. He was making tons of money before Scientology and could have been very successful in any field. He may have made mistakes, he was a mortal and possibly had some mischief (or evil) in him, but that does not lessen the validity of his work. The Tech works for me and for hundreds of personal acquaintances.
We, at Dror Center, have left the church in 2012, seeing that the Tech cannot be delivered for the benefit of the individual under the church. DM has “hijacked” the Tech so as to serve his own greed. DM could have easily fixed some of Ron’s policies that have proven mistaken. Just apply some common sense. DM usurped powers because he’s a cruel, obsessed lunatic. Scientology did not work for him; and he makes sure it will only be used to destroy others who are under his control.
Bob and Sharon, If you find happiness in Christianity or any other belief, I am glad you have found a path for personal freedom and tranquility.
I arrived at Scientology 34 years ago after a long personal journey, after refusing to believe in anything I could not myself experience and observe. Scientology has given me much ability and joy. I do not believe in it, I never did anything against my own wishes. I still consider Scientology to be the best thing I did this lifetime (save for marrying Tami). For me, Scientology has handled the “Whole Track Dwindling Spiral” and it has given me Spiritual Freedom and immortality.
I am thankful to Ron for what he has given Mankind and myself. Still, I would have a stern talk with him about some fatal mistakes he made, if I only could.
Bob & Sharon, I wish you a life of joy and fulfillment. I believe Ron would wish you the same, that you do it your way, not “Ron’s Way”.
Beautifully expressed Dani. I too have had wonderful gains from Scientology and not the shoddy substitute DM and his minions are currently peddling. Bob and Sharon – my best wishes for you and your loved ones. Hope one day you’ll all be reconnected.
Hi Danni –
With all due respect, I do need to scrutinize some of the claims in your post. I don’t want to disrespect your religious beliefs, but because Scientology can cost so much in terms of money and ruined lives, it is important to respectfully speak out when claims like yours are made.
You wrote:
To accuse Ron for being in it for the money is, I think, absurd. He was making tons of money before Scientology and could have been very successful in any field.
This is false. Hubbard was not making tons of money before Scientology. There are at least 4 or 5 very well researched biographies which provide much evidence that goes against your statement here.
Have you read any of the widely available biographies on L Ron Hubbard?
Would you please provide any evidence which shows your statement to be true?
He may have made mistakes, he was a mortal and possibly had some mischief (or evil) in him, but that does not lessen the validity of his work.
2 things on this:
1. No one has ever said that LRH never made a mistake or was anything other than a mortal.
I don’t know anyone who has ever claimed that LRH was perfect and immortal.
So this statement starts off with a straw man claim. This claim acts as a distraction from what LRH DID do: he created a dangerous brainwashing cult that deeply invades a person’s mind and life and tries to take everything of value from him that he has.
2. In 64 years of operation, Dianetics and Scientology has never created a “Clear” or an “OT” as LRH defined those states.
My two statements above contradict yours, and I apologize if this insults your beliefs. But I have lots of documented evidence to support statements 1 and 2 above which I can show you if you want to see it.
The Tech works for me and for hundreds of personal acquaintances.
The broad, generalized definition of “works” in your statement allows for lots of leeway and allows for your statement to be totally true as you see fit.
But per Hubbard’s claims for Clear and OT, no.
The Tech has never created even one Clear or OT as Hubbard defined them.
If these are your religious beliefs then that’s fine. But when you contradict a person like Bob who was involved for 30 years and he has just stated something that is totally his own reality, then your reality is also open to scrutiny, right?
Alanzo
And here is Alanzo, is the rub.
There are people who have been personally helped by Scientology. That is a fact. I am one of them. All the back and forth about “am I a clear as LRH described it in book 1” does not change the fact that I did go clear and it totally changed my life. I am definately not the clear as described in book one, I am not impervious to the common cold. But I am a different and better person, happy, more able, and far far away from the self-destructive person I started out as.
If you take two people who both tried the North Beach Diet and one person did great and the other did terrible; well you can argue that till the cows come home on their own.
What does that say about the North Beach Diet? That it was a money making scam? That it was a valuable diet? That the author was only in it for the money? Its all yip yap.
But lets assume for a moment that the current owner of the North Beach Diet company was running around changing the diet over and over and demanding people pay for it over and over, insisting that people burn their old diet books, forcing those on the diet to disconnect from anyone who criticized it – well thats a right now, right here problem of crappy management.
If that same person was physically abusing staff, harrassing whistle-blowers all while living a rock star life style and eating nothing but cake and caviar, well that would be just an out-rage.
What does it matter if some people like the North Beach Diet and feel it helped them?
Why slam away at them and insist that they disavow something that they liked?
What gives you the right to tell me what helped me or what didn’t?
The point is not if the technology of Scientology is harmful or not. It’s like arguing that Christianity is a mind-crushing delusion and demanding that Christians “snap out of it” and “get real”. And that is bullshit my man.
The problem is abuses. Lets stick to abuses. There are PLENTY of those to go around.
Excellent comment as usual Roy.
Hear, hear Roy!
Nice rebuttal – Alonzo, purely as adopted to one of LRH’s writings – “no generalities”.
I never reached any of the higher states of the Grade Chard, but can say: “Yes, lower level stuff does what it promises to do”, such like Communications Course, ARC Straightwire, and such type of courses and auditing.
Roy:
I absolutely agree that there are people around who have been helped by Scientology.
I am one of them.
There are also people around who have been harmed by Scientology.
I am one of those, too.
The truth about the results of Scientology is BOTH the good and the bad.
Scientology is not a diet book. A diet book costs up to $25 and some time trying it out. Scientology can cost a person millions of dollars and he can lose his entire business, lose all of his friends, lose his sanity, and even destroy his family.
We’ve all seen that happen to people now as a result of doing Scientology.
So if Scientology can be trusted to be sold and delivered to people safely, the good and the bad of Scientology must be allowed to be examined out in the open so that people can make informed decisions about their own involvement.
This opportunity of examining the actual results of Scientology – both the good and the bad – was not available to us before, and had it been available, many of us would not have made the decisions we made about Scientology without having all the data we now have about it.
So I apologize if it seemed like I invalidated your wins by questioning Dani’s claims. Lot’s of things I’ve experienced have improved my life, including some things in Scientology.
But I know that I am the one who actually did the improving, as were you.
Do you agree?
Alanzo
Alanzo is not wrong. LRH was majorly broke when he started Scientology and he started the religion for the express purpose of making a mint, which is what he did. He stashed it away in vaults off shore. He carried it around in suitcases because he didn’t trust the banks and because he evaded tax.
He didn’t make money as he said he did from writing fiction. Scientology was his source of income and he was extremely wealthy.
There are many places where you can research for yourself and get this exact data. Gerry Armstrong found LRH’s real biography and it became documented and I believe it was evidence in a court case.
LRH presented himself as we know him but it’s fabricated. He didn’t even HAVE an engineers degree, etc, etc.
Be willing to experience anything and get the true data, is all I can say.
Yes, there are wins to be had and all of us had some or else why did we stay. However, there is much that is hokey-pokey and much is actually dangerous. The brainwashing is subtle. Just take this one statement: Scientology is senior to life! Wow.
If you get reading, the subtleness of the brainwashing becomes more highlighted.
The truth will set you even freer. Be ready though to be shocked.
Excellent comment as usual Alanzo. You’re a little needler sometimes (but I loves ya) and I can see why that can be annoying but damn, it doesn’t make you wrong. One day this little exchange here will be read differently, I reckon. There’s too much emotion for that now. That’s okay too. It’s all okay.
Oh, and when I say that I mean an impish, truth loving, fun and warm person who is just plain smart — ya know, that kind of get under one’s skin kind of needler. I meant it in a good way — simply meaning that sometimes, yeah, you could just let it go but then you don’t and I have to ride the Alanzo wave. I wouldn’t have it any other way (others’ mileage may vary — lol).
Synj wrote:
Oh, and when I say that I mean an impish, truth loving, fun and warm person who is just plain smart — ya know, that kind of get under one’s skin kind of needler. I meant it in a good way — simply meaning that sometimes, yeah, you could just let it go but then you don’t and I have to ride the Alanzo wave. I wouldn’t have it any other way (others’ mileage may vary — lol).
We have a Frequent Rider Program where you get 3 free barf bags with every 10,000 points you earn.
Good to see you around, Synj!
Alanzo
Alanzo,
Excellent break down of the actual FACTS, as usual. Thank you!
+1 Roy
Alanzo: The current church sets up LRH as one who was never wrong, whose every word had/has to be accepted as gospel, a man who cannot be doubted in any way or it’s ethics actions to “correct” the doubter. How could you claim otherwise? Nothing straw man about that at all.
I don’t know when you were in, what period. But I went to the top of the available bridge when I did it and had utterly fantastic gains…in my own estimation, the only one which counts. I became a very changed person and definitely for the better. Many of those wins led to others I discovered within myself on my own. I continue to look and learn, continue to study further works on spirituality. It is, to my mind, an ever learning never ending journey.
Yes, opinions are based on one’s own reality, experiences, emotions and many other criteria. I could never agree that Hubbard set out to run a scam or that he didn’t intend to help, or that he was only in it for the money. He was more than human enough to be swayed by all the adulation, all the applause, a #1 bestseller on the NY Times list, etc. And, like so many before him, male and female, he went for more power. From that, I’ve learned the truth of the oft quoted: “Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.” He became very corrupted, Miscavige even moreso.
Their game will play out. The indies will continue to produce good products and prosper and grow. Hopefully, it will never become a single huge entity again. Such large organizations are always tilted toward corruption. (The old Mission system was actually the driving force which boomed scn in the 60s and 70s. That’s why the need to crush and dominate it came about by those seeking power.)
I don’t think – never have – that scn will “clear” the planet. The planet never asked to be cleared. But people like Dror will continue to use the useful tech and will help more and more people to a saner life. That is quite enough for me to accept and support.
Thanks, TheGman77 –
I understand your point about how “Dror will continue to use the useful tech and will help more and more to a saner life”.
I believe that is possible, too.
So if it is possible, Dani shouldn’t mind a little scrutiny of the claims he makes for LRH and the results of Scientology now and then, and to be asked for a little evidence here and there, when he makes them, yes?
Alanzo
So if it is possible, Dani shouldn’t mind a little scrutiny of the claims he makes for LRH and the results of Scientology now and then, and to be asked for a little evidence here and there, when he makes them, yes?
Well, I don’t know about this. Why is he obliged to do anything for anyone? Maybe for people who have an interest in his activities or wish to participate at the Dror Center. But the likelihhood of you being included in either of those categories is 0 I would guess, so I don’t know that he has any obligation to you at all…
He is not abusing people like the church does. Hammering them for money, splitting up families, threatening people, using information from their pc folders etc etc.
Good one.
Mike wrote:
Why is he obliged to do anything for anyone? Maybe for people who have an interest in his activities or wish to participate at the Dror Center. But the likelihhood of you being included in either of those categories is 0 I would guess, so I don’t know that he has any obligation to you at all…
I never claimed he had any obligation to me personally.
But I would think that Dani does have an obligation to make accurate claims about the results of The Tech he is selling, and to not tell untruths about LRH’s real biography if he is going to sell Dn and Scn services ethically to the public.
That’s why I took up those claims he made in his comment.
I mean that ethical standard works for selling used cars, why not for Scientology?
Alanzo
Alanzo, I don’t want this to become and endless argument. I think you have expressed your views and others are also chiming in with theirs. But I must say the car analogy is pretty out there. Ever heard a Ford salesman explaining about what a mean and miserly old fart Henry Ford was? On this standard the DeLorean salespeople would have had a really rough time. 🙂
Mike wrote:
But I must say the car analogy is pretty out there. Ever heard a Ford salesman explaining about what a mean and miserly old fart Henry Ford was? On this standard the DeLorean salespeople would have had a really rough time. 🙂
LOL!
I hope you understand that while I am sincere in what I write, I’m also having a blast, and laughing my ass off at times, writing it. And I appreciate the atmosphere you create here for the free, and respectful, exchange of ideas on your blog.
And I agree some of the analogies, metaphors, and comparisons for Scientology can get quite strained. It’s often very entertaining to examine them closely.
The best I’ve heard though is that Scientology is “like a Dessert Topping AND a Floor Wax!”
Alanzo
🙂
Like ice cream topped with horseradish, or chocolate with carnauba wax.
Dani, +1 To me Scn has always been about integrity. Gains cannot be achieved without it. People should be aided to do scn with integrity in the organizations, not the opposite.
Dani Lemberger’s replies above are very spot-on. We all realize that the admin and ethics side of the Church has been whacky for a very long time. But the tech used to be good in certain parts of the world. Now it seems it is all mostly “executive C/Sing” and it seems Bob has had more than his unfair share of it. As to some comments on here about the so-called “Science Fiction” aspects of the upper levels all of this “disbelief” would be dispelled if a) you had had enough (correct) auditing and C/Sing, b) didn’t go past misunderstoods in your materials (which Bob seems to have done early on with DMSMH), c) were properly set up case wise and with all prior levels done properly and when these were all “in” then you can experience the marvellous changes and gain that one does experience from these levels. The people that come on here and start “yip-yapping” about the upper levels have mostly a wrong public on this board who will nevertheless patiently take to task any adverse comments on such. I would also like to point out that actually there have no been real and actual OT Levels released even including the “new” OTVIII, which is less than 1/3 of the original LRH version. The right target here on this board is current (squirrel) Church management who are engaged in just ripping off their parishioners amongst many other crimes and this has nothing really to do with the tech.Many of the people posting on this board got out of the turned-squirrel Church years ago as we were sufficiently trained to spot suppression and gave them the “yo heave” a long time ago. Now most of these people will still be getting their auditing in the Independent field and having a “whale” of a time, but not financially (that was the joke) and with freedom as well.
I feel sorry for Bob and his wife and maybe now they should bite their own bullets and not blame the misapplication of tech that has been perpetrated on him and his wife over the years and go and get their cases properly handled in the Independent field, but choosing their auditors and C/Ses carefully. I would start with Dani, Bob, and fly over to Israel but there are many others now. (I have nothing to with Dror Centre.) Good luck to you both and I hope you can rescue your daughter from Zombie Land.
OMG! Reading your story I realise what would have happened to me if I hadn’t left.
When I went to Flag for 7 they gave me a program that so didn’t indicate to me that I left forever….finally!
Since I indicated to myself that I received out tech at Saint-Hill, my life has started to head towards normal again. And when I look at the mental state I was in while online, I just can’t believe it!
Welcome, Bob and Sharon! And thanks for sharing your story.
Congratulations on finding your way out and moving forward with your lives. There are lots of us out here with similar stories, so you’ve just made loads of new friends. 🙂
Wow!
Fantastic story!!
I especially loved this:
“Then, to make matters worse, Sharon went on to label LRH as a douche bag on Facebook, just for the fun of it. “
LOL! Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off on that one!!
I really enjoyed your story, Bob. It is so amazing what we put up with in Scientology, and your write up is hysterically accurate.
Alanzo
Thanks for your story and sorry to hear of your harrowing tale. So many of us have similar tales to tell. Best wishes for your future and getting your daughter back from the mind snatchers. For public, Flag is the very worst of Scientology, the higher up you go, the more insane it is. I received similar “handlings” from MAA’s there. It’s amazing how many people that live in the Clearwater/Tampa Bay area that have nothing more to do with the cult anymore. The cost in terms of finance has been great for many, but the cost in lost years of their own lives is incalculable.
“Sharon went on to label LRH as a douche bag on Facebook, just for the fun of it.”
LOL You rock Sharon! Thank you both for your story and VWD on speaking out.
Thanks to you both for having the courage to speak out! I hope your daughter re connects with you soon!
Your story is very similar to mine. I have asked myself a million times why did I not leave when I experienced some crazy situation within the Church. I guess it is a slow process to unravel KSW. After one time of word clearing that policy letter, you get sucked in to the Truman show.
If everyone that read this blog that is “under the radar” told their story, disconnection would be over and our children, parents, brothers and sisters would be back in touch with us. Again, thank you both for standing up to bullies!
Love you Cindy.
Thank You and yes we all need to come out from under the radar at some point. But, I totally understand why some folks feel it’s not safe to do so with the COS. Reaching the point of speaking out is a process that one needs to work through and by the looks of it, a lot of people are weighing the consequences and deciding not to keep that W/H.
Dear Bob and Sharon,
Best wishes and keep on track. Not much to add or comment
other than I believe things will work out for the best.
ARC
Thank you for coming out and telling the truth about what your experience in Scientology was like.
What a story! It is just amazing what Scientology puts people through because they don’t have any valuable product – so they spin people around forever.
We are all very happy you escaped and it will only be a matter of time before your daughter leaves too.
Your story will help lurkers in doubt that are on the internet right now with a similar story of their own!
Welcome out of the confusion that $cientology $ells for profit while hiding behind their religious cloak!
Your story kept me riveted. Thank you for sharing it here. I’m very happy for you both and in having your freedom.
Bob and Sharon, Wow, what a story and well told too. I can duplicate why you put up with years of mishandling, crush regging etc all for the carrot of spiritual knowledge and spiritual freedom, or for the threat of not having that. I am very sorry your daughter and grandkids have disconnected (again). I also have lost my two kids to disconnection. But I think that the more people who come out publicly to tell their stories just as you bravely did, that it helps and will help to bring down the church faster so that the healing can begin and families can be reunited. Welcome to the Indie world! We are glad to have you and wish you well.
Thank You! I hope public pressure causes the COS to reconsider this horrible policy. I wish you the best.
Thank you Bob and Sharon. I sure hope this message of disconnection continues to be made known as one of the major destructive practices of the Church (no matter how much they deny it). May one day your daughter contacts you again.
Thank You and God bless!
The true story of LRH is already out there. Some choose not to read them, but these books tell a big story:
Bare-Faced Messiah
Madman or Messiah
Piece of the Blue Sky
Marty even promoted Bare-Faced Messiah and Mike is reading it.
Bare-Faced Messiah will put you in touch with real Ron
It’s a biased report.
You have an M/U. “Bias” does not mean “I disagree with it, therefore it’s wrong”.
Sorry, but I don’t.
What parts are biased. Just saying that all three books are biased really means nothing.
Of course there is bias to some degree. If you know someone to be a liar and you report on their lying to protect people, then you are biased in the sense that you know they lie.
i am biased against Hitler.
So MJ, which of these books have your read, and which parts are biased?
Just saying something is biased is like saying something is wrong. There is not data there. Just an opinion,
Thanks, Brian, for that list. I’ve read Messiah and Madman and about to start Barefaced Messiah. These books are based on information from too many people who did not collaborate with one another for their stories to not be true.
Barefaced Messiah is not for the faint hearted and those hanging on to their illusions. After confronting who the real man was and his real agenda, one’s stable datums are indeed shaken. One does need to be able to confront evil. The truth is not always pretty and not always what we want to know. However, it won’t go away. It is what it is.
Some how Happy Chappie, connecting the dots of this horrific practice to Ron is a cognititive disconnect with some.
The internal construct, of LRH, through the experiences of auditing and group bonding, repulses truth, in the very reactive way that scientology was supposed to free one from.
It is my opinion, that the sec check questions regarding loyalty to Hubbard, done decade after decade after decade, implanted a hypnotic reaction to criticism of Ron.
After all, if you were caught thinking an unapproved thought you could loose your family, job and “eternity”.
Just that threat alone would lay in the mind an unconscious reaction that squashes anyone critical of Ron.
Instead of seeing Ron, they attack the criticizer.
That is the effect Ron intended.
He loved the word fabian. He was expert at it.
Brian, you are absolutely right about the books you mentioned. Especially Bare-Faced Messiah. Russell Miller came out with this book in 1987. One year after Hubbard died. But, the cult sued hm into submission. Only 12,000 copies were sold. Now, of course, it’s back in print. My son downloaded the e-version to my Kindle. What a great read! He goes into great detail about Hubbard’s life. Be prepared! It’s not what you think!
I’d also like to recommend “Going Clear,” “Inside Scientology,” “Abuse at the Top,” “Counterfeit Dreams,” “Church of Fear” “Leaving Scientology” and more. And, like happpychappie44 wrote, it will challenge you. But, maybe that’s for the best. Don’t be afraid to change your mind…
Old Surfer Dude, Marty recently revealed that it was he that crushed Bare-Faced Messiah. It was his black ops to destroy this book from being released.
A few blogs ago, on the day the book was re-released, and Miller was on Tony’s blog talking about it, that day Marty publicly apologized to Miller.
Marty then asked his readers to buy the book, saying it was in essence it was not a hatchet job.
Some ex members rise to greatness.
I haven’t read the other books you have suggested. I’m not sure I need any at this point. But the topic is so interesting I may.
Man, it is truly an uneasy task, to admit that realities we have agreed to as real, are in fact falsehoods.
Every couple of years I go through a “reality house cleaning” and question the truth of things I think I know, or principles that I live by.
I always find a cherished belief or two that make me feel a bit ashamed for thinking certain ways. Ways that are no longer true for me. “How could I have thought that way?” is the feeling.
It actually can emotionally hurt to be aware of falsehoods within our selves, or people we thought were great now not so great.
Sometimes being truly cause is being brutally honest and breaking down and sheading tears of loss for the falsehoods we have held dear. But to a true believer what I just said is “being effect and stuck in a secondary.” To bad there is great case gain to be made in being vulnerable. And none made by being make believe cause.
Only a psychological antique is repulsed by this process. Because psychological antiques are more concerned with proving the status quo to be the “true reality”
It takes courage to be one’s own iconoclast to the realities and cherished beliefs that are now perceived to be untrue and thus needing the trash bin.
It always is an emotional earthquake to consciously cop to being incorrect about foundational philosophies we have outgrown or now perceive to be untrue.
L Ron Hubbard, the image within our own minds, is worthy of deconstruction.
It is happening anyway. It is only a matter of time. The world and many out of the church have begun the work.
The true nature of L Ron Hubbard is not an insignificant thing, nor something to be avoided. I am still unraveling after many years out.
Great post Brian
Great post, Brian! Very heart felt. May THE best day of your life, be the worst day of your future.
Dear Bob & Sharon. Thanks for sharing your story and finally “going public”. It never ceases to amaze me at the common thread that runs through these stories – the years of mishandlings, wrong items, botched auditing and insane reg-cycles. And yet we all stayed – in anticipation of that elusive “carrot dangling” or threat of losing one’s eternity.
I am sad to hear about your family disconnecting – this has happened to us too, and I know many others who have likewise gone through this pain.
The important thing though, is that you made your decision and got our of the maze. Welcome out into the sunshine where you will find and make many new friends – I have not doubt about this.
Love BP
Thank You! Wishing you the best and wondering…what happened with the disconnection? Did you get back together?
Wow! Thanks for telling your story, Bob! I hope you and your family can reunite in the future.
I read it all. God, what a mess. But what i think is that most of what happened was not scientology. I had similar experiences. Scientology is shadowed by terminal who were fascistic. Particularely in the GO.They were the first to enforce warlike attitude. Jane Kember was loooking like a russian spy in a James Bond movie. It’s full dramatization. DM is in the valence of a Marine’s officer. I think it’s full valence. US army meet british navy (of the past) They put their uniform and think they are something.
They are not scientologist, but dramatizing homo sapiens.They are “yes sir” type of guy, and expect public to yes sir them… It’s a very poor show. Top Gun bull shit!
Sorry to say this to you, FG, but the GO was LRH’s baby and was run like that at his instigation. There are books that you can read. DM, Nornan Starky and company, were all trained and instructed personally by LRH. DM is merely continuing with LRH’s orders and this includes the preoccupation with money. Contrary to what he lead us to believe, he made $millions out of Scientology.
It’s good to get the full story and also to be able to think and behave outside of the “Hubbard bubble of reality.” There are some truths in Scientology, enough to hook us but the rest, the OT levels are, as someone said, “bad science fiction.”
Personally, I know dozens of OT Vs and up and they are not happy people and are not winning in life, that I can confirm. Fortunately for me, I stopped at Clear and very pleased that I did.
You both have more guts than most, to stick that long against such insane odds. A testimony to the real toughness you have. Happy to see you’re both out and coming back to happiness in life. I can tell you, for sure, your daughter is NOT happy in her situation and this will fester for a long time. You WILL see her back in touch again. Just hold fast, keep loving and await her “resurrection.”
Thank you and I hope one day she will see the light. She does love me and I know the whole disconnection thing was very difficult for her to do.
Thank you for sharing your story. The more stories there are out there from different people, the harder it is for COS to claim it’s just a small group on the fringe of the internet. Never really knew the internet had a fringe…but if the COS says so…
You did a good job of laying out, albeit a crazy life of a Scientologist, a still very stereotypical one which ropes you in with small workable cute technology, and then starts mixing in space opera and ideas which completely nullify your logic and so shove you into blind faith and adherence for a lifetime of “knowing” LRH is right and thinking something must be wrong with you that you can’t reach the true definition of OT.
It’s an even sadder picture for your daughter because I’m a proponent of the fact that when you start us out that young, we literally become brainwashed. LRH has a way with words which truly make you think he’s a God and basically supplants a normal vocabulary with a jargon only other Scientologists can understand. The fact that we watched the Sea Org slide show twice a week for years, read and re-read KSW and had the words “deadly serious activity…….win or die in the attempt………” seared into our minds, along with Big L himself telling us over and over again that we’ve had millions upon millions of families and lifetimes(serving to cheapen the value of this life’s family), it served to make us quite the stoic and staunch supporters of Scientology as being our natural inclination.
I wish more people in could just take a step back and see the assembly line they’re all a part of. The fact that none of them are unique save the unique proposition of being a Scientologist. Scientology only makes sense when you’re surrounded by other Scientologists. In the real world, it falls on dead ears save the few workable basic tenets amalgamated from philosophers past.
Cheers for seeing the light, finally. Keep spreading the word.
Nick,
You nailed it. My daughter fits this to a tee. Very sad indeed. I will not ever rest until this existing scene is put to rest …… that is my commitment to my daughter and every other ‘still in’ child who ever trusted their parents to look out for their best interests.
“It’s an even sadder picture for your daughter because I’m a proponent of the fact that when you start us out that young, we literally become brainwashed. LRH has a way with words which truly make you think he’s a God and basically supplants a normal vocabulary with a jargon only other Scientologists can understand. The fact that we watched the Sea Org slide show twice a week for years, read and re-read KSW and had the words “deadly serious activity…….win or die in the attempt………” seared into our minds, along with Big L himself telling us over and over again that we’ve had millions upon millions of families and lifetimes(serving to cheapen the value of this life’s family), it served to make us quite the stoic and staunch supporters of Scientology as being our natural inclination.”
This needs to be on a billboard along Hollywood Blvd. albeit a tad shorter ………………..kinda like Dear Leader!
Nick, As another person who was raised in the ‘church’ I couldn’t agree more.
It’s a rude awakening to realize everything you were taught to believe is a lie, and we usually find out the hard way…kind of like stepping on a rake.
Hi Nick,
I loved what you wrote and couldn’t agree with you more. As a mom myself, I saw the future looming ahead for my kids as potential brainwashed adults and convinced my spouse to move out of LA (we used to live near the PAC base), to some distance away where it’s a little inconvenient to reach us.
I did this solely to give my kids a chance to grow up and be who they wanted to be and to think for themselves without the constant judgement and scrutiny of the fundamentalist church and its members. Both my husband and I are very happy we made the move and our family became closer and stronger as a unit without the constant interference and meddling we had been experiencing. We also became financially better off too (gee, I wonder why).
For any public still in with young children, think ahead a bit and imagine your kids as fundamentalists. Do you want that life for them?
Pepper, I’m so glad you moved your family further out from near the complex. That was smart. The SO recruiters dog those kids unmercifully to get them recruited into the SO, and as you know, the reges come to your house at all hours as well as the IAS and D of P’s. So good job on moving! Now on to important stuff: when are we going to meet for coffee?! Email me.
What, what a story! So glad to see it out and you guys doing so much better as a result!
Thank You Chris! BTW, You were a great KTL supervisor. That course was the best thing I did in Scientology but I always wondered where you went, after Santa Barbara and why you left suddenly. I guess you got recruited into the Sea Org. Good to connect again after all these years and see that your out and doing well.