The full transformation into a bank is well underway.
Why have people take out loans with a bank or run their credit cards to the limit when they can extend credit with “in house financing”. Of course, this is EASY to do when you are selling from already manufactured inventory with massive markups. There is little risk of any loss. After all, these people are under the thumb of the church. And if they ever did have anyone default on their loan they would just divert a bit of the “library donation money” to cover the “loss” and carry on as if nothing had happened.
“Hi Peter,
If you have seriously been considering the purchase of your ACC lectures or Mark Ultra VIII Meter but need assistance with the financing to make this happen―I have some good news…
There is a financing option I have available that has already helped hundreds of people get their ACC lectures (or other LRH materials) direct with Bridge.
This is rarely used or known about and still applies even if you have bad credit. You will find out within minutes and have zero interest for 10 months.
Since this is something we have had success with, I wanted to try with you as well!
Interested? 🙂
Please let me know by return email or call me directly at (323) 216-7367.
Looking forward to hearing from you!
Sincerely,
Violet Havel Bridge Publications
323-888-6200″
This is really over-the-top.
I wonder how long it will be before orgs are offering the same “service.” After all, it costs them virtually nothing to deliver training and auditing once they have a building. It’s not much difference in cost to deliver one intensive or 3, or one course or a dozen. So, there is little downside risk in “extending credit” and you can imagine the pitch “You don’t have money? Get some auditing now and increase your ability to make it and pay us back in a year.”
And put aside the violation of church policy, surely the IRS could not sanction this? It is beyond any possible interpretation of “religious activity” covered under the IRS Code.
They are probably not willing to do anything about it though.
Astonishing….
And, let us not forget that this gives the Corporation-formerly-known -as -a-church yet one more legal avenue to harass an ex-member by pursuing debtor claims in court.
Hmmm. The original definition of “usury” was “lending money at interest”.
Anyhow, doesn’t engaging in this type of activity subject the “cherch” (Thank you, Les!) to regulation by governmental regulators such as consumer protection agencies, the FDIC, and other regulators of lending institutions? Will the the First Reactive Bank of the Cherch of Scientology (thank you, OTVIIIisGrrr8!) try to say it is exempt from governmental regulation because they are religious in nature?
I suppose we will have to stay tuned. 🙂
Why isn’t the IRS all over this, and other illegal actions from the church and IAS?
If CO$ provides financing it would have to do a credit check on the person. In order to do be allowed to do credit reports on people, the way banks, lending companies and credit card companies do. I rather think that Co$ has hooked up with some lender willing to do business with high risk people, or else Co$ is fronting for the actual lenders (a whale or 2) who are putting up the dough. I can’t believe that the Co$ would actually write someone a check from their own money, but, hey, I’m very willing to be wrong about this and I really hope I am, and I hope any still ins will do the following: 1) get the Co$ loan 2) Buy the ACCs, 3)Don’t pay it back 4) Sell the ACCs on Ebay.
IRS should immediately remove non-profit exempt status
The Basics are produced for 10 Mio Scientologists .. everybody MUST have them .. if not, he would be not a scientologist .. I do not know if they have ever produced 10 Mio copies .. but surely they have some more in stock which are ever sold .. now you can have it on credit .. nice .. would not buy it anyway .. but some are maybe interested .. so on .. it is interestingly stuff told on old ACCs ..
Does anyone else remember COSMOD’s credit union, Freedom Federal Credit Union?
As I recall, it rapidly went under as it was loaning $ to scientologists.
I must assume that Dear Leader was too young to have heard anything about that fiasco,but the idea of history repeating itself is nonetheless delicious.
I’m willing to give my 60 boxes of ACC’s, Congresses, Basics, Ron Series, etc for free to anyone who’ll come to my house and drag them out of the attic and garage storage. My boys won’t do it anymore because they’re sick of hauling that stuff around. Just drive them away in your truck and they’re all yours. No financing,
Loans, IOU’s, or promises involved and no expectations of “exchange”. I’ll even throw in a nice meal too!
Honestly, the church has produced more junk in the last 7-8 years than people even know what to do with, since we’re expected to buy multiple copies of everything. They’ve got too much material on their hands so they’re desperate to give it away “interest free”. Probably to prove that the demand for Miscavige products is straight up and vertical and to
keep his ego stroked and nastiness at bay.
Is this really a definite that the church is providing finance? They might just be giving referrals to a high interest finance company.
That seems the more likely explanation to me – perhaps a WISE outfit?
I recall in 78/79 Carl Barney founder of the “SCS Missions” in Southern California set up a Credit Union for his Scientology Missions. (Valley, Pasadena, and perhaps Santa Barbara?).
It made a killing. Knowing what the Interest Rates were in the late Seventies,this post reminds me of this.
Mike,
BPI shows up as an active corp.: http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/
But it doesn’t show up as a registered charity: http://oag.ca.gov/charities/charity-research-tool#Location:SearchResults
As regards the price increases, I think I paid about $650 for my first intensive of auditing in 1977. I remember it seemed like a lot then, and it was. But by the time I left Scientology in 1990, I am pretty sure auditing was $3,200 per intensive. That would be about 5X over 1977 prices. The only price increases I remember during that time were the 5% per month price increases in the early part of the 1980’s. If I am correct about this, then the 5% per month must have stayed in effect in excess of two years, which is a ridiculously long period of time. If it is now $1,000 per hour, then only the whales can afford to squeeze the cans..
Yes we are a church. And yes, OF COURSE we carry our own paper.
Yet another business for the rcs to be engaged in. We have hotels, food and beverage, publishing, design &
building, parking lots, wedding planners and NOW…..loans! Why not?! Long, long ago, there was something called auditing, where someone could honestly talk about their spiritual self, get help, have cognitions, make gains. That is the ONLY business that Scientology should be engaged in and absolutely nothing else. Shameful!
Mike,
A church corp. question. Is BPI a non-profit? I know it isn’t part of the “church”. Or, at least that is what I thought. If they are not a “church” don’t they have to pay employees or are the S.O. members there considered “church” employees. I was never completely clear on BPI & NEPI
That’s because it has changed a few times. I am pretty sure they are now classified as “religious” publishers and any other activities they engage in (though I don’t know how much there is with “Galaxy” handling the fiction) is “Unrelated Business Income.” But someone could probably get the details on this with some internet snooping.
Thanks. I’ll try to snoop.
In truth, the FSO has been delivering service on credit for well over a decade at the Flag AO (Advanced Org). When a person is solo auditing on OT 7 they are supervised (C/Sed or case supervised) by Flag.
The service is paid for in 6 month blocks and is called “6 month C/Sing”. The cost for the 6 month block is about $2,000. MANY public on OT 7 (about 40%) can not afford to pay for the 6 month C/Sing. Per policy the Technical Division is not allowed to deliver service without a paid invoice and Treasury is supposed to
enforce this. Due to the fact the COBs stat is Advanced Tech VSD which is mainly produced by those auditing on OT 7, policy is thrown out the window. RTC will not allow someone to stop auditing on OT 7 due to unpaid 6 month C/Sing. Both the Technical staff and the public person themselves are basically forced to continue the free service. RTC then reverses the whole thing and blames Treasury for not collecting the money owed and points the finger at Treasury for the free service.
Many public owed for 1,2,3 4,even 5 years of 6 month C/Sing. I had a Treasury staff member named Russell that worked full time on collecting 6 month C/Sing. I had him do all his collection calls from the other side of my desk. I did this because the OT 7 public tended to yelll at him on how they didn’t even want to be on the level. They kept sending their materials in, only to have them sent back to them.
They tended to cave Russell in mentally and I had to keep picking his spirits up.
“Cause over life, matter, energy, space and time” – not so much……. That’s a peek behind the OT 7 curtain.
Wow, and Treas could write cramming orders until its blue in the face (DAMHIKT), yet nothing would be done. That sounds horrifically familiar. I can’t even imagine being in Russell’s position, but I certainly have been the person making collection calls for OC. I hated it with the heat of a thousand suns.
” I did this because the OT 7 public tended to yelll at him on how they didn’t even want to be on the level. They kept sending their materials in, only to have them sent back to them.” This is very interesting Matt! Do you have any idea of proportion of 7 auditors to those who didnt want to be on the level? I sent my materials back after dm changed it and I could no longer audit it, but I never received another word on it, nothing, nada, which was very strange. My theory on it now is that the level was terribly overrun.
Todd,
I don’t know the % of those wishing to get off the level but I can say it was pretty common.
The OT 7’s were under a lot of pressure to come in for “6 month checks”. That means they had to leave their families and jobs and spend tens of thousands of dollars twice a year. The plane fare, room and board and an average of 3 intensives of FPRD (False Purpose Rundown) style sec checking (every 6 months) at $7,000 per intensive. Of course they had the IAS, Super Power registrars, etc chasing them for additional money. Besides the cost and inconvenience many also objected to the mixing of major auditing actions, OT 7 and sec checking. It was pretty obvious that the real game was to squeeze as much money as possible out of them. Many public were on the level 5, 10, 15 years and they felt they were just being run around in a circle, which they were. It didn’t take long before they resented the pressure and control of Flag and were looking for a way to get their head out of the lions mouth.
That is strange that you were able to return your materials without the normal BS. Lucky you.
What Mat Pesch says is correct. After my last 6 month check in Oct 1997 I decided “That’s it for me”. Just before my next scheduled trip in April 1998, I sent my materials in – only to have them returned to me by Flag. I went through this routine at least 2 more times in the next few weeks – they would not take “No” for an answer. Until they did.
I don’t think the Co$ will extend credit to auditing or training. GAT II is so bad, no one would pay for services “after the fact”…. so, in your dreams DM. Just keep humping the whales until they are extinct and then go to Bulgaria..
“This is rarely used or known about and still applies even if you have bad credit. You will find out within minutes and have zero interest for 10 months.”
It sounds like they have an outside lending source, who will verify (deny or approve) credit within minutes. Maybe one of the whales has set up a slush fund that they can now use. You know –
The Giancarlo D. “Johnny the Rub” Franchetti Memorial Bridge Fund
Gosh, I wish I had access to this kind of money back in the day. Thursdays at 2:00 pm would have been so much less stressful. Like having an ATM machine in the Reg’s office. Cool!
Odd
I can not imagine the Co$ setting up something properly here themselves. As soon as you are in the interest game there is a plethora of legal work & obligations involved with structuring & managing such a business (debt market). I would love to see what the interest rate is & all of the other terms that *MUST* be legally disclosed with such agreements. There are even provisions around the mere offer of credit, which this ‘offer’ may indeed fall foul of, for example the interest rate applied after the free period is not stated nor are the repayment periods (min/max).
I wonder who is underwriting this? Debt is an asset (for the creditor) that can be traded (sold)…and when books go bad (as ones like this inevitably will), you unload it now, now, now!
What also is amazing is that parishioners don’t have, what… about 250-300 or so dollars for the ACC? That says a lot if they can’t even afford such a low cost item.
Money, greed and fraud have become the hallmarks of “miscavige interpretation of scientology”.
Maybe one day the IRS will start looking into it after they realized they have been fooled big time.
And maybe they do have the $300 for the ACC’s but just don’t want to buy them. I never liked having it shoved down my throat with an enforced, you must buy this now now now.
I wonder if Violet Havel is related to Nick Havel of the Wichita Mission? This whole idea is so off-policy that I wonder if policy is even given lip service any more.
I was in the (off policy) loan arranging business back in the day (late 80’s)… believe me Murphy’s Law will apply in short order. I can see it now, herds of Scientologists are declared for filing bankruptcy… lol.
I know of a person who was declared for not making good on their Ideal Org pledge. It’s not much of a stretch.
Ever believed in something other than Scientology so much it hurts your soul ?
Now that’s living.
All that shit you gave up to be a Scientologist is the stuff that life is all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA
A related item http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20020289863
On the second page you can see that FSO is the beneficiary on a Deed of Trust (mortgage) to a scientologist couple. Apparently FSO loaned them money for services with their house as collateral. James died and Kelly is now married to Jeff Pomerantz.
A deed of trust is essentially a mortgage. The beneficiary in a deed of trust is the lender. http://homeguides.sfgate.com/trustee-deed-trust-9101.html
How is this not illegal?
“There is a financing option I have available” We will help you go bankrupt. We will do anything to make you disconnect. In fact, we will do anything to make you the alter ego of Dear Leader.
The First National Reactive Bank of Miscavige accepts loan payments in the form of blood, gold jewelry, children, homes, cars, and just about any other form of MEST that can be sold at the Diamond Dave Pawn Shops located inside of our Ideal Orgs in Tampa, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles.
Thanks for the info. How about old and no longer used status trophies?
Scientology Organizations will redeem your used IAS status trophies at a rate of .0005 per $1000 of the original donation up to a maximum redemption value of ten cents.
Re: … the Diamond Dave Pawn Shops located inside of our Ideal Orgs in… Los Angeles.
“What a loser.. What’s he doing in LA anyway?”
http://lybio.net/scientology-what-a-pathetic-individual/news-politics/
Well, there you go. Another facet in the never ending quest for money and hypnotised clients. The murky wheeling and dealing of the miscavige empire has now exceeded all expectations, it’s mocking itself up as a bank! Rather apt term really. I doubt if anyone on both sides of the fence wouldn’t have an instant read on every word connected to finance.
Is miscavige the new PayPal?
Mike, your comments are appropriate – ‘And put aside the violation of church policy, surely the IRS could not sanction this? It is beyond any possible interpretation of “religious activity” covered under the IRS Code.
They are probably not willing to do anything about it though.’
I believe anyone of authority within the IRS or govt who would actually care about what goes on within the Cof$ would be pretty much negligible as they have their own fish to fry. Is there anyone out there who actually believes banks & taxmen are in any way ethical? The Cof$ has been at this game for many years now and the authorities have done nothing except grant them tax-exempt status. The puzzle here is how do we get the US legal system compelled to act for the good of the bankrupted and the victims of religious crime? The media (& what a fun bunch of ethical mentors they are) has a big part to play in the downfall of this type of criminal activity.
“I owe my soul to the company store.” Tennessee Ernie Ford
OK, for those that are in: Keep in mind how much the COS hounds you now for services. Got that? Now imagine how much they’d hound you if you OWED THEM MONEY. Got that.
By the way, how much interest are they going to charge after the 10 months are up?
Not the kind of thing I’d like to buy on credit. Especially when they are available on ebay or even better, online
I’ve heard this story more than once:
1. Scientologist gives and gives until finances are broken.
2. Scientologist has to devote all time to making money and paying debts, and goes offlines for a period.
3. During this extended period away, scientologist reflects on their bad situation and how they got into it.
4. Scientologist starts to look on the Internet and an ex-scientologist is born.
This new strategy is smart because it gives a reg something to talk to a scientologist with broken finances about and takes away the excuse the scientologist normally has for cutting off this communication altogether. Whether the scientologist enters into the agreement or not, she doesn’t have a way to stop the communication, which gives the church that little bit of control and contact it wants to maintain.
If the scientologist breaks down and enters the agreement, the church will be right there with them as they are in phase two, because they are one of the debtors.
The church would be wise to extend this program to courses and services so that they could keep the scientologists around and avoid the situation where the scientologist feels free to do what they please. We naturally want to reciprocate when we think we’ve been helped, so loaning someone the money so that they can continue on course would make them that much more under control.
It’s all a train wreck anyway, why not make it just a bit crazier?
It will also add to their burden of guilt and shame that they are such DBs who need to take money from their church when the church clearly needs it so much more (to help a world going to hell in a hand basket and so on and so forth).
The future of scientologists is looking brighter every day.
“Scientologist gives and gives until finances are broken.”
In a heated moment with the little cannon ball shaped IAS reg at Flag ( is it even genetically possible not to have a neck?) I dared to say this very thing. I told him the IAS, Super Power, and the Ideal Orgs would take and take and take until I was broke and would leave me to deal with it. He stood there blank, staring at me not know what to say because I had dared to say it to his face and also because at some level he knew it was true.
If you’re not careful at Flag you can easily become financial road-kill.
The reason I left Scn after my OC contract was done was that I was tired of seeing people become financial road kill. (Including myself.)
Having worked in Treas, I probably got to see more of it than the average staffer.
Great post
All the big mission holders — the ones that are often lionized and deemed the REASON scientology boomed in the 70’s — had their own credit unions. (back in those days, having a credit union wasn’t impossible and not regulated like today).
Bent Corydon had a credit union. MOST of his staff all paid for their bridges through his credit union. Some call that indentured servitude.
Carl ? — who owned multiple missions in the LA area. Also had it’s own credit union.
Martin Samuels had a more complicated deal but again, not dissimilar.
And of course there was Alan Walters — Mr. Missions himself who lost them but then cozied up to and will Bill Franks to get ALL the Mission Holders to rally AGAINST Sr. SO Management.
Was Management wrong? It included Vicki Aznaran at that time as well as dm and was part of the Mission Fiasco — declares on the spot …
———–
The mission conversation could be endless. But it’s always surprised me just how LITTLE the actual behind the scenes knowledge is shared on these boards.
Diana who was Commodore Staff 6 — in charge of ALL the missions although administratively they were UNDER the GO – Jane Kember (the mission 10% gave the GO their money so the GO jealously guarded this) — was keenly aware of the mission credit union scam and did what she could to quell this.
It continues to make me sad that Diana is locked inside this prison camp created by dm.
She knew how to work WITH the mission holders WHILE holding the line on cray cray — but Franks took her out. She left and then returned and as far as I can tell, never recovered from those losses.
She was a courageous princess who deserved, in spite of her foibles, to have had a much much better life.
Windhorse
I was very involved with the mission network way back when. Here is a question I have that you or someone else out there may have information:
During the period of the Mission credit unions and the mission take-down by DM we also had the insane HCOPL on “The solution to Inflation.” I do not remember if it said to increase prices by 10% per month or what. Whatever it was, a small increase was fine, but it just kept going and going and going. Auditing rates went from $50 per hour to about $1000. Pardon me if my memory is not perfect on the exact rates. Suffice it to say that the rates were insane. I remember the heavy dissonance hitting at that time. My solution for the “solution to inflation” was to recommend training only.
My question is this: I was told back then that it was Diana Hubbard as Div 6 Exec Int who put a stop to the monthly hikes in prices, and that her effort to do so was not an easy one. Does anyone know what really happened to this craziness of monthly increases?
When Diana was Div 6 Exec Int — I was no longer IN the Sea Org. The entire Exec Strata was created sometime around 1980 or so and I left the SO in 1980.
The credit unions are a different conversation actually than the take down by DM and Aznaran (who HAD been married first to Rick Aznaran and THEN divorced him to marry UP to Dean Stokes to then divorce Dean, start the Houston Mission and fail and THEN come in the SO — where she and Rick has a STELLAR RISE TO POWER on the backs of nearly everyone. DM out smarted her though and won the prize)
But I digressed …
It’s possible that Diana did have something to do with the rise in 10% — and as much as I would like to say she did (cause I really love Diana – as I said, foibles and all) — I doubt it.
She wasn’t on those lines. But, then she did wield a great deal of power AS LRH’s daughter.
One of the reasons Franks hated her. He hated MSH and Diana. And if he is reading this — boo
Windhorse
Diana had nothing to do with the price increases. That was mandated by LRH in an LRH ED entitled the Solution to Inflation.
I think it was Marc Yager who finally put an end to the price rises with an evaluation that he sent to LRH for authorization. Nobody could change the “LRH Order” so it just went on and on.
Thanks Mike. I was always curious about what had happened. I did not mean to imply that Diana had something to do with the increase…that was LRH. I had heard that she had stopped the increase out of disgust and anger. Nice to get some of the truth in that it was Marc Yager that had something to do with it.
YEah, it might have been Mark Ingber or Guillaume too, but I seem to recall it was Yager….
I think I remember the Solution to Inflation being a 5% increase and it just kept compounding until prices were out of range for me. I remember the Solution to Inflation lite a fire under me to try to work harder to stay ahead of that “solution”. Then the solution became the problem.
Interesting, Windhorse.
I had a similar offer made to me around 1991. I was doing the life repair at FCDC. At some point I wasn’t benefiting from it, II was told I had some condition that was holding me back, they told me they could not give me any details about this condition except that I needed some process that cost $10,000. I told them I did not have ten thousand dollars. Liz Clapp said they would finance the cost interest free. I declined the offer and was later told I did not have this mysterious condition after all.
I shudder to think what they will demand as collateral when ten months is up.
Can you imagine your parish priest or local minister ringing you up with a 10-month, no-interest offer for a loan to buy your eternity? Oh by the way, Mr Jones, how many able bodied children in the family did you say you own? We have a special discount Today Only and we’ll throw in a special blessing to the Big Guy if you get here before 2:00.
Hey, if this new scheme results in more SP declares for staff and public – I’m for it. I reckon every SP declare results in at least 6-8 others curious and asking questions, the first step on the road to departure.
The blog posts recently have been awesome.
0% financing for 10 months, even with bad credit? Get a credit decision within minutes? This is too weird.
It seems that if Bridge itself were offering payment plans, they would not use the phraseology “even with bad credit” or “get a decision in minutes”…they would just say something like “payment plan available”…there wouldn’t really be an approval process. Maybe I’m over-thinking it.
I had a sneaking thought that perhaps a Scientologist with a credit / financing business had offered to provide financing for Scientologists to buy materials. Bridge sends people his way, and Bridge get’s their money.
But again, maybe I’m over-thinking it.
Mike,
Great reporting! I hope this is the hair that brakes the camel back.
But the confusion as to if Scientology is a BUSINESS or a Religious Charity, was created by Hubbard from the very inception.
Anyone can take a look at Vol. 3, and will be utterly confused as to what Scientology claims to be about, well not really, it is MONEY.
There are too many conflicting policies about the subject, so here are two examples:
HCO Secretarial Letter of 26 December 1958, COLLECTIONS OF ACCOUNTS.
“PREMEDITADED FRAUD….
In the case of persons with proven past credit, this caution may be relaxed.
Suit of such persons is useless. They have, on the whole, no credit or possessions.
The question now arises, when do we sue? We sue only when we have had to guarantee a credit company that we would, which does not apply in the United States.
On the whole in the matter of credit, the Registrar and Accounts must learn, “This is a religious institution, not a credit agency. We are not interested in credit and indulge in such credit activity only for your convenience”
In other words, as a general finance policy, “Extend credit only when the down payment covers all cost or the past credit record guarantee future payment. Handle all failures to make payments as ARC breaks and stretch patience to the limit in seeking to collect. When all else fails and apparently will never work out, play rougher that anyone would believe possible”
L. RON HUBBARD Founder
HCO Policy Letter of 4 June 1959 Issue IV, INVOICING AND COLLECTION OF MONEY.
“CREDIT….
Don not invite credit. We are a financial institution not a bank.
Credit may not be extended to bad credit risks. The Registrar should be provided with a bad-risk list by Accounts.
Badly overdue accounts must now be sued.”
L. RON HUBBARD Founder
There’s a movie from the 80’s called “Ruthless People” – the main character is a speaker salesman and at one point he suddenly decides to sell the deluxe 6 foot tall power speakers that are a total rip-off to a kid. There is a line from the movie that really applies here… “And if you can’t afford it? Don’t worry, Fuckin Finance it!”
“And put aside the violation of church policy, surely the IRS could not sanction this?”
As the church isn’t actually loaning money there is no violation of IRS regs and the IRS has no jurisdiction. The only angle is if the person doesn’t pay back the church then they are liable for the value of materials as income.
This isn’t an indicia of commercialism?
No because it doesn’t change the non-profit status. Remember that the Church had existing LRH policy, that continued after the IRS deal, to extend credit for review auditing. If the church started charging interest they would be stepping in it big time though. THAT would be commercial and put them in the position of being a “banking” entity. Also, if they charged a higher price for the physical materials if bought on credit it would also be a problem. It would be charging interest on the back end…
I’m a little confused….. If ’10 months no interest’ does not imply that interest will be charged beginning month 11, then what does mean?
And if interest is charged, then it absolutely becomes a for profit entity.
Perhaps the burden will be on you, the hapless PC who agreed to the loan, to save the church from legal out ruds. TAke some responsibility, egt your ethics in, that sort of thing. The church would never be in this kind of trouble if you made enough money in the first place. It’s ALL YOUR fault!
There. Ready for session? 😀
State Attorney Generals often ‘police’ collection agencies and banks. If it smells like a bank and operates like a bank, it is a bank. Attorney Generals don’t care about how ‘ecclesiastical’ if you charge interest, you are a bank.
What stupid whale is putting up the money to start this? They are ones who are going to be out of pocket in this scam. Yeah, the inventory is nearly free, but the mark up is horrendous.
If you can’t pay the monthly ‘service charge’ do you have to give them a child for the Sea Org?
Also of interest in California: The Rosenthal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act applies to original creditors, and covers things like harassing phone calls. Meaning: if the org is going to be the source of debt, they’re going to have to obey the laws, like no calls after 9 pm or before 8 am, etc.
http://www.reportcollectionabuse.com/documents/CA-FDCPA.pdf
Hilarity will ensue.
We had similar financing back in the SCS mission days in Southern California run by Carl Barney. There was a created financial outfit called Nationwide. i remember the reg telling me, in the mid 70’s, that I “could” qualify for a loan. Me? I had no job, no assets, no credit. I provided the Nationwide “loan office” with my stereo worth $25 as collateral. Voila! I had $5000 that was given directly to the mission. Those 4 missions lived on Nationwide loan activity.
Points being are:
1) We were taken over in the mission fiasco in the early 80’s and cited this loan operation as off-policy. Now here is the church operating with financing. Pot calling kettle black!
2) Nationwide was done out of desperation. Without it, the missions would not have been able to get their stats up or reg to the levels they were. Once Nationwide was stopped, it was very difficult to reg at all. In fact, once the public became aware of how the financing worked, most just stopped paying, which also stopped the flow of cash into the missions.
3) The Church is in desperation…that is why they are doing this Bridge financing operation.
They are dead. Jeez, they are easy to read
I was thinking exactly this. I was caught up in the same SCS scheme, which Cheryl Sola writes about in detail here: http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/cheryl_s/cheryl02a.html
Debt Slavery circa 1800’s pre Civil War.
This sounds like a twisted incarnation of the old ‘postulate check’ scam. If I remember right, back in the day, the mark would be regged for a service and if there was no real money available before Thursday at 2:00, they would write a ‘postulate check’ and then would be pressured to make good on the check asap. This current scam might have a little more teeth to it because I’m sure the ‘church’ will have legal documents written up to put pressure on the marks to make good on their ‘loan’. I imagine such a contract will be about as legal as the concept of a ‘freeloader debt’ but that will make no difference. The real leverage the ‘church’ has is the fear they instill about the poor (literally) parishioner loosing their eternity and committing financial crimes against the ‘church’ for not making good on their loan. This is a win-win situation for any con artist, loan shark, snake oil salesman, etc.
So, if the church extends credit, will the debt be dismissed in bankruptcy court along with all the other credit cards they have racked up for auditing?
And, wouldn’t charging interest make them a for profit organization? (Not that they aren’t already)
I would love to see the actual policy that is “rarely used or known about”. It must be in that pile of policies where LRH talks about fundraising. I’m sure we will see all these lost and forgotten policies when the new and improved OEC volumes are released.
I just wonder what would happen as the cherch tries to collect on the debt.
For many years now they have been violating their own policy of refusing to return unused donations, refusing to pay valid refund requests and using fraud to get heavily solicited donations for various scams..
Every attempt by disgruntled and abused parishioners to use the courts to assist in justice has been met with teams of lawyers and a refusal to pay based on “it’s a cherch, yer honor.”
It would be fun to have the cherch “loan” money to people and have the tables turned on their own out ethics.
“Why this is a cherch matter, your honor. Mr. miscavige has no jurisdiction and this can only be handled by internal arbitration.”
Ah, but imagine the fun that Sea Org members would have making collection calls, and threatening clients. If you t hunk normal collection agencies are bad…
Well, the worst debtors are Scientologists. I was really surprised how many unethical stories I heard about regarding Scientologists that didn’t pay their debts. It’ll be interesting match up to see the the most ethical group on the planet go after the most ethical individuals.
The difference is that scientologist debtors would now owe the church (which can declare them and take away their “bridge”) as opposed to other garden variety scientologists, who can only use (ha! check mate!) “internal arbitration” and may not sue unethical debtors without getting declared themselves.
Easy peasy. You want to play in the scientology game? Fine. Just do exactly what the head of scientology says.
Shades of Shylock, and look what happened to him!
“There I have another bad match!—a bankrupt, a prodigal who dare scarce show his head on the Rialto, a beggar that was used to come so smug upon the mart. Let him look to his bond. He was wont to call me usurer; let him look to his bond. He was wont to lend money for a Christian courtesy; let him look to his bond.”
Usury indeed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
It used to be illegal.
But think of what a Church that employs usury could get away with in the US under the protection of the First Amendment.
No bank has the protection of the First Amendment.
Scientology is the ultimate enslavement organization. And they plaster FREEDOM all over everywhere.
Takes your breath away.
Alanzo
Truly, Alanzo, takes my breath away what this church gets away with under the First Amendment privilege.
Mind boggling really.
Another sign of desperation. Wait until the “church” starts taking away debtors property as a new angle on its real estate scam. Don’t forget this is a cult that thinks its normal to order abortions, divorces and family break ups in order to fatten its pockets. This is a cult ADDICTED to money. It can never get enough and will do ANYTHING to get more.
Spot on Mat. ‘will do ANYTHING’ is the key here. And they have already done ” abortions, divorces and family break ups in order to fatten its pockets”. They have also perfected slavery and have a way of getting the slaves themselves to agree to one billion years of it.
The only place to go from here is up and their plan has been to EXPAND THEIR REACH. THAT IS OVER!!!
Yo Dave,
We are here to inform you that your dream and your reality of expansion is OVER. That can also be spelled DONE, NADA, TOAST and FUBARed. In the vernacular of Dave Miscavige it means the CICSMFs out and about on Hollywood Blvd. have fucked up your plans good buddy. So your new acronym is CICSMFHBFUYP. Get on it…………
“Don’t forget this is a cult that thinks its normal to order abortions, divorces and family break ups in order to fatten its pockets. This is a cult ADDICTED to money. It can never get enough and will do ANYTHING to get more.”
Mat Pesch knows what he is talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt-gxC-ISto
I remember the Little Dickie stories from early ESMB times.
Thanks for sticking your neck out, Mat.
Alanzo
One of my FAVORITE interviews was this one with Mat. He has a wealth of information and stuff I’d never heard before.
Plus, I love your laugh, Mat.
Re: Little Dickie
“I knew every inch of him.”
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1004/02/acd.01.html
Mat, Did reges at FSO brag to public that CoS had insiders at AMEX who could raise credit limits at the reg’s request?
If true, illegal? I wonder.
Civmar, No, I never heard anything to do with insiders at AMEX and I was the Dissem Sec FSO prior to being the Treas Sec FSO for 7 years. The FSO did lose its ability to use AMEX for awhile in the early/mid 90’s due to misuse/abuse.
I better get my stuff out there before the fire sale begins!
Let’s see……I think I have 2 or 3 sets of ACCs, a pallet or two of basic books and lectures and …oh yes, I think I have four or five Mark VIIs floating around. Hell, there is even a framed photo (from a mission pkg) of LRH titled ‘the original perp’ in there somewhere!
You could start your own little scientology store, Coop!
🙂 Make it a consignment store, Cooper.
‘The Cult Thrift Store’
“We even rent out recycled regges and MAAs for your local fundraising events.”
That’s the spirit, Coop! Let’s do this thing!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ….. no interest for 10 months …. what a hoot! You have to KNOW that the fine print on the contract says something about that ELEVENTH month! And then the vig starts ….. they will PROBABLY have a person put the monthly vig on whatever credit card is still good (and yes, you will no doubt need ONE good credit to qualify for this deal) and then the CoS will collect the monthly interest on the cc and then grind on the person for the monthly principal in cash. Oh, the money will flood in, baby. (certainly no one here think the CoS plans to LOSE any money on this racket, do you? Now, THAT would be a good joke!) Bernie Madoff had to work harder to con people out of money. The sheeple are ripe for the shearing (as usual).
I was thinking the same thing Joe…..that 11th month will certainly be a bitch.
And yes the COS ain’t gonna loss any money. It’s all skate for them and god
forbid the position the poor borrowing parishioners are put in.
The big CC companies should follow this…..they might learn a few new underhanded tricks
from the COS finance company.
I hope the church DOES go down this path. Something like Bridge Bank or New Era Financial Services. What more evidence does anyone need that this is a commercial enterprise? So, I really hope they cross the line.
Violet’s email is not only blatantly off-policy, but it is an indicator that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for prospects to purchase these materials.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
“Dear Peter, If you have seriously been considering the purchase of your ACC lectures or Mark Ultra VIII Meter but need assistance with the financing to make this happen-I have some good news…”
I have a set of ACC’s in my garage I will give you. In fact, I’ll pay you to come get them. Also, if you wait just a little while longer on that Mark Ultra VIII Meter, you will be able to find those on ebay in bulk.
Sorry Peter you just missed out on getting a free set of ACCs from me they all went down the local dump in October – a bit of digging could turn most of them up though!
Besides of this incredible scientyology out-Policy attempt to scam more money from victims, we can observe that the scientology pope is the first beneficiairy of ythis out-Policy, since he’s paid in good part from the Bridge percentages paid to LRH’ Look how Miscavige and Stakey are paid… Mike Rinder, you knew a lot about the whole!
http://www.xenufrance.net/pay-miscavige-and-starkey-families-q3-a-c-ii.pdf
So, the links are established through Author services and the pope of the cult.
This other website is not well known from ex-scnist, despite its great interest regarding the treacherous ways established dring the years 1990 to 1993 to get tax exmeption.
The load app probably requires you to put up your friends and family as collateral …..in fine print.
For those of you who don’t necessarily believe in fine print, check out the signature line of your check book which has the letters MP printed at the end of the line. MP stands for ‘microprint’ which legally you have to be notified of. Now, get out a magnifying glass and read the line. The rabbit hole begins here as regards the banking industry and ownership of ‘your’ funds. The Cult has learned from the best of the best. There is more to this …………… a lot more but not for this thread now.
Yo Dave,
We’re comin for ya good buddy. 2015 will not be a pretty year for things in general but for Cults and psychopaths, holy shit and ‘ Katie bar the door’, we’re talking about getting a lot of pure ugly happening.
geesch ….should read ‘loan app’
By acting like a bank, $ciengology will now get attention from state attorney generals.
Do you really believe that “zero interest for 10 months” is going to apply? The bait and switch of the clampire is carved into their stones. ‘No, that teaser rate only applies to the purif, everything else requires a lien on your house or car or weekly paycheck.
When the Sea Org ‘loan officer’ shows up at your door and wants your car keys, what will happen? Why the police will show up and the SO will show the contract and away goes the car. Don Corleone meets the clam double cross.
$cientology, the Rent-a-Center of religions,. but without the 2000 dollar TVs.
You will see the most creative ways, in the History of Scientology, for Scientologist’s to “have” the Bridge and the Cults books and lectures.
Everyone is virtually broke, except a few whales in each Org, who are good at Keeping Scientology Working.
“Die in the attempt” think has been implanted during the Ideal Org and IAS crush regging push. Also – the think about the Bankers and the 12 SP’s at the top of the pyramid justify going broke and screwing creditors.
SOP – “Pirates and Bums” and somehow the thoughts about going broke are “NOBLE and Good”. It must be because most of the members are broke and have lost homes to foreclosures or are upside down on mortgage due to debt for the cult.
Financing the Bridge will be a neat little trick. So a guy borrows $50,000 from Bridge or the Org and can’t pay it back – the Org has lost nothing and the guy will be in heavy ethics trouble if he is not making payments. He won’t be able to “have his Bridge” because he missed payments.
He will have to “Make up the damage” for the hideous crime and will be encouraged to borrow from the whales, friends or family. Scientology will always get their money – always.
I noticed that most people become more disabled as they went up the Bridge – due to the confusion technique the cult uses on them.
They won’t be able to keep a job or create any money. Most people go into debt, lose homes to foreclosure and file BK. Creditor’s suing and tax collector’s are after most Scientologist’s in our area. We went to the local courthouse and looked them up. OMG – it was so revealing. I highly recommend that ever ex Scientologist and Indie look up your members and tell others what you see – the actual condition members are in due to dedicating their lives and money to Scientology.
Scientology – is the covert science of “caving people in” has sunk to a whole new level of low.
If run in orgs, this might spell debt slavery for public and/or asset acquisition/transfer for the orgs.
You mean more than exists now?
Oh, there is plenty of property and wealth that the church does not own yet.
Yes. An indentured servitude:
(Collections registrar to a public up to his ears in org debt) “OK, I understand you’re unable to pay your debt, let alone the interest. No problem. We’ll GIVE you a post in Org X on a 5 year contract and put a hold on more interest. Then we’ll deduct only 28% from your staff pay to pay towards the balance, and once the balance is paid, just complete your current 5 year contract and you can go back to being a public, should you wish!”
“Did I mishear you? You say you don’t want the post? I’m sure I misheard you because I’m sure you’re not CI. No, not you. I’m sure you’re aware that anyone CI to fulfilling their financial obligations to the Church gets immediately escorted to the RPF for full spiritual handling. No, not you. Yes, sign right here to accept your new post. Thank you and welcome to staff!””
You may be speaking tongue in cheek, clergyman, but you are not far from the truth in actuality. A person I know went to the Ship to do OT VIII and ran out of money cuz they keep making you buy more and more intensives for Sec Checks to make sure you’re good enough to get OT VIII (this after Flag does a leaving the Org Sec Check once you comp OT VII). So as a brand new OT VII comp, you should have no untold OW’s hanging out, and no case to be handled. Yet the Ship finds stuff to keep you paying for auditing. So anyway my friend ran out of money on her OT VIII Elig. She couldn’t find people to lend it to her (all were broke). And so she made a deal that she would join staff at an Org in CA so that she would then qualify for half price intensives as a staff member. She did join staff and it was a huge burden to her to work full time in the day and then go to be on staff at night plus weekends. And she was not young. So this kind of thing is being done and was done to her about 9 or 10 years ago.
Your right Mike. It would normally spread to orgs for services if its legal. Logical progression for this vulture organization. Much more advanced and binding than a postulate check. Maybe the IAS can start a members only credit union as a way and means to totally control the spiritual and material aspects of the believers. Its chilling.
What I find astonishing is the number of us, the ones who fought very hard to beat the government at its game, to leave us alone to practice our religion, now want the government to do something about the atrocities.
Maybe ironic is a better word.
Want to own your public? Have them be indebted to you.
The church is taking its final step in sealing the deal with whoever is still left in.
Exactly! And that is a quickly shrinking crowd thanks to you and everyone else stepping up to say “NO MORE OF YOUR CRAP DAVID, GO TO YOUR CORNER!”
Good point McCarran! They are selling their soul to the devil literally. And what they don’t tell you is that when that year of no interest is over, they raise the interest to usary rates. I would love for the IRS to find out about this. Maybe we should leak this to the BBC and other stations that are preparing their Scn documentaries right now. It certainly takes it out of the realm of “being a church” when they lend money for services they sell as a business.
Chris – I don’t want the government to do anything about it. Actually I don’t want ANYONE to do anything about it). In fact ….. I AM LOVIN’ IT!
LOL Joe, ok, there is that too!
I guess this is a stupid question…but..going to toss it out here anyhow…are decisions such as granting tax exempt status set in stone? Can a new investigation be brought up by the IRS? It seems to me that after all this time and in light of new issues like this financing thing…that they should re open the case…this is so plainly a business not a religion..I mean ok,so the “church” has deep pockets and a history of harrassment and lawsuits, but come on…this is America here…and they surely cannot be completely immune to prosecution or free to just make all their own rules!! Its an outrage and it bugs me. Can people write the IRS and demand this be reopened? I would be willing to write such a letter or sign a petition
Postulate check much?