The next Terra Cognita essay. See earlier Terra Cognita: Two New Conditions!, The Condition of Liabilitiness, Condition of Doubtfulness The Mind, The Way To Happiness: Really? A Story, Auditing: a PC’s Quest for the Holy Grail, The Knowledge Report, Integrity, The Almighty Stat, The Reg, The Horrors of Wordclearing, Why Scientologists Don’t FSM, Respect, The Survival Rundown – The Latest Scam, Communication in Scientology… Or Not, Am I Still A Thetan?, To Be Or Not To Be, An Evaluation of Scientology, Fear: That Which Drives Scientology and Justification and Rationalization.
BT’s in the Belfry
BT’s—will be defined shortly—have certainly been mentioned before, but considering how fundamental they are to moving up the Scientology Bridge and “going free,” the subject deserves its own post and discussion. Thanks to Brian and others for their insightful comments on Mike’s September 25th posting.
I must warn you, though. The church regards the whole topic as not only confidential, but dangerous. In their eyes, anyone reading this is committing a crime and risks going insane. Now’s your chance to turn away from the screen.
I was always a big science fiction fan. I grew up reading Bradbury, Heinlein, and Tolkien and in the summer of 1977, my partner and I stood in line to see Luke, Leia, and Han battle Darth Vader and the evil Empire. Ten years later, we watched the first episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation. Today, I proudly wear a tee shirt that reads: Picard/Riker 2016. So when I learned back in the 70’s that Scientology was developed by a science fiction writer, I was more enthralled than discouraged. By the time I reached OT 3, I was a little less confident of him and his revolutionary discoveries.
Bugs, Bats, and BT’s
LRH liked inventing his own nomenclature and thus, coined term Thetan for spiritual being. All human beings are Thetans, and all Thetans like playing around in human bodies—at least the ones in this solar system. The bummer is, there aren’t enough bodies to go around. Not to worry.
According to LRH, each person is surrounded with thousands of quasi-sentient thetans that for some reason weren’t causative enough to secure primary control of a body of their own. LRH called these guys Body Thetans—BT’s for short. They behave similarly to the reactive mind, negatively influencing a person’s life without him knowing the cause. Some BT’s exist individually. Others band together in big clusters.
For some reason, BT’s are in such a fog, they can’t communicate with their hosts. BT’s are like sleeping sloths. And just like a sloth’s coat is infested with thousands of parasites, a BT is laden with lifetimes of engrams that impinge on its host—which is you, Homo sap. As far as I know, that’s all they do: inflict their negativity onto whomever they’re attached. BT’s are basically guests from hell.
I suppose anyone would be out of sorts after 75 million years without something corporeal with which to control. I wonder what decides who gets primary control of a body once one is made available. Is there a long line (queue for you Brits) of eager thetans waiting on the other side of Mars? “Okay, move it along. Come on, come on, we haven’t got all day. Next!”
The bottom line is BT’s are the ultimate horror story and must be jettisoned at all costs.
But how? How does one get rid of them? Special lasers with game-controllers hooked up to e-meters? Lasers work for everything else, right?
See your local reg for the complete answer.
The Big Bad Wall
I’d been told ever since I became a Scientologist that a “Wall of Fire” described on OT 3 contained the answers man had long sought, and was where I’d once and for all learn how human beings ended up on this prison planet in their degraded state.
As an avid sci-fi fan, I was ripe to believe that Earth had been seeded by aliens millions of years ago; that Adam and Eve were a hoax; and man hadn’t evolved from a cosmic mud puddle 3.8 billion years ago. According to Ron, me and every other dissident in a far sector of the galaxy were rounded up 75 million years ago, read their rights, shuttled to Earth in DC-8-like spaceships, and unceremoniously dumped in volcanos. Never mind that these volcanos didn’t exist at that time—the island of Hawaii is only around a million years old and the first anatomically modern humans appeared just 200,000 years ago. Cognitive dissonance and a serious need to change my life had blinded me to geologic reality.
I suspended my disbelief, pulled out my wallet, and spent the ensuing months auditing myself in a closet (literally) in order to rid myself of these evil entities. I thought I was done when I was done. Not quite.
Always Something Else
Apparently, I was lying when I attested to being BT free at the end of OT3. Apparently, there were thousands more clinging to my ass, waiting to crawl up inside me and wreak havoc with my dynamics. Oh my!
LRH discovered that there were so many BT’s left to eradicate he developed OT levels 4 through 7 to deal with them all. In fact, it takes years of holding the cans for hours a day to finally unglue the sticky little buggers. I never made it to this level, but from tireless research, I have determined this is what it’s all about.
Every six months, those on OT 7 are expected to fly back to Flag for a “checkup.” The ostensible reason is to get people winning again who are having trouble on the level.
According to just about everybody who’s blown from the level, the real reason is to catch those who may be wavering in their belief and are in need of help from Ethics. Because as everyone knows, overts and withholds are the root cause for loss of faith.
In the Meantime
Ever wonder what everybody did from the time we were dumped here on Earth 75 million years ago to when Homo sapiens finally evolved? Did we play galactic poker? Interstellar charades? Twenty questions? Knit?
Imagine waiting all that time for the first real man to evolve:
“Oh my god, we’re almost there, Bob! Another million years and these Neanderthals should just about have evolved to where their bodies will be worth inhabiting. I frikken can’t wait!”
Picture the mad stampede to grab that first Cro-Magnon to emerge from that famous cave in France! Kind of like being the first in line for a new iPhone.
74 ½ million years is a long time to wait around for anything! Especially when there’s not enough product to go around.
A couple of hundred thousand years after Cro-Magnon, Igor turned back to Bob, “Screw this. I’m not waiting around another million years to get my own body. I’m latching on to someone who already has one. Like that pretty girl by the mud hut. I might not be in full control of her but it’s better than nothing. I’m done playing charades and knitting scarves.”
Little did Igor know, that by affixing himself to the girl, he would lose all consciousness.
Meat or Non-meat
Unless I missed something at a remote Congress, LRH never mentioned whether these billion and billions of malcontents were transported to Earth in physical bodies or as spiritual beings. My supervisor’s answer on OT 2 was always, “What do your materials state?”
One thing I do know, it would take one hell of a fleet of DC-8’s to transport everyone here as slabs of meat. Mass-less thetans are so much easier to ship (And cheaper; check it out at UPS.com). On the other hand, flailing bodies plunging into caldrons of molten lava is a sexier story for the five o’clock news back in the Confederacy. Nonphysical bodies barely make a splash.
How does one pour something with no mass into anything, anyhow?
Higher Math
I like math. Always have. I liked doing equations in school and I like numbers with lots of zeros—like multiplying the current number of people on Earth times the number of BT’s clinging to each one.
7.5 billion people living on Earth times 1,000 BT’s per body (which is a very conservative estimate) = 7.5 trillion. Wow. That’s a lot of beings hanging around Earth. And they all arrived via Virgin Atlantic Airlines, Flight 3862, from Marcab to Earth, right?
Let’s say these DC-8’s were monster ships. Like really, really big. Cargo holds the size of football stadiums. Each one held 10 million people, really bad people—artists, musicians, actors, journalists, you know, the dregs from the known civilization.
So…7.5 trillion thetans on Earth divided by 10 million (capacity of each ship per Boeing—I looked it up) = 750,000 DC-8’s needed to transport everyone. Which is one hell of a fleet, let me tell you. If Xenu diverted all his resources to finishing these behemoths at a rate of ten per day (imagine hundreds of gargantuan dry docks floating in space), it would take 75,000 planetary orbits to complete the fleet. Or in Earth time: about 205 years. Which would be just enough time to round up all the trillions of dissidents scattered across the sector.
Don’t you love math.
Ron and Bugs
It’s been suggested that LRH invented the whole concept of BT’s as another way to get people to continue to pay big bucks for auditing.
Others have hypothesized that the man was bi-polar and delusional, and that BT’s were but figments of a deranged mind. It’s not hard to imagine a truly crazy person believing invisible creatures were crawling all over his body, causing him to think and act in a “non-survival” manner. If LRH was truly Clear, there had to be some other mechanism suppressing this vaunted state.
BT’s were a handy answer, especially by one so well versed in the world of science fiction, and it wasn’t long before the definition of Clear was revised to “Clear on the First Dynamic”—only. (Apparently, the other seven were bug-infested and still out of kilter.)
Interestingly, LRH was the first man who was able to deduce the presence of BT’s. Jesus didn’t mention them in the Bible. Buddha may have divined their presence but never talked about them. Shiva, Brahma, and Vishnu were in the dark. Gnostics mention other beings but they didn’t identify what was really going on like LRH. Oddly, even Einstein and Carl Sagan were oblivious.
In fact, not only was LRH the first to discover the presence of BT’s, per Scientology doctrine, he was the first man to come up with an “accurate” account of how we all arrived on Earth.
There is no documented research and there is no scientific evidence that BT’s exist. And there’s no galactic library where we can look up the Marcab Confederacy in order to verify LRH’s version of history, either. We just have to take his word.
But Why All the Confidentiality?
I offer several theories.
1) LRH thought people would go insane if they believed thousands of invisible beings were crawling all over their bodies. And thus, he wanted people to wait until they’d been sufficiently trained and processed, and had gained more power and certainty.
2) If people weren’t sufficiently indoctrinated to accept the concept of BT’s, they would balk at continuing on the Bridge. In Scientology parlance, they “wouldn’t be able to have” the idea. They wouldn’t be spiritually developed enough. The Wall of Fire and BT’s are “out-gradient” to new Scientologists.
3) LRH was running a giant con game and hatched the whole idea as a way to dupe people into shelling out money to rid themselves of imaginary creatures.
What Happens to Blown BT’s?
Where do BT’s go after they’ve been “audited away?” Do they immediately latch on to another unsuspecting soul, or go in search of a newly pregnant woman? We’ve already established there aren’t nearly enough Earthlings to go around. So what do they do?
Roam the ether like packs of adolescent male lions? Hover over maternity wards in hopes of attaching themselves to likely newborns? Get pulled into the sun and incinerated? Take up mixed martial arts?
So, What Da Ya Think?
A lot of people swear The Wall of Fire is real, BT’s exist, and spend years attached to an e-meter purging themselves of these things. A lot people believe they’re figments of an unbalanced mind. Whichever you believe is fine with me.
Proving that something exits with no matter, energy, space, or time is a study better left to sorcerers and quantum physicists. I can’t remember what movie I saw last week, much less, know if I’m a composite being composed of me and thousands of mini-me’s—or just a piece of meat.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
P.S. Where do thetans come from? Are they manufactured in a special factory on the other side of the universe? Or do they just appear every time God snaps her fingers?
I always thought Int Mgmt was composed of OT8+ people. So weird to find out that past lives, BT’s and other crap like that isn’t even real to them.
Individuals have problems.
Mankind has problems.
Opposing a solution is not helpful.
Dianetics and Scientology are solutions, but it is up to individuals, Case Supervisors, Auditors, and PC’s, to implement them. Some intelligence in implementation is required and presumed to be there.
Some who were around in the early days, prior to standard tech in 1965, say it was better then, because you didn’t have drug cases, you had people who were interested in experimenting and exploring (not in “being helped” or “going Super-OT”), and you were more free to audit what was there when it popped up.
Some say that the standard tech period from 1965 to 1978 or thereabouts, depending on whom you were with, where you were, and how things were done in your world there, did in fact lead to full OT, the natural state for a thetan. I am one of those.
Some say that standard tech period obviously was attacked by some in the government of the U.S. in clear violation of the Bill of Rights. All kinds of wild speculations have been floated around. Other governments were persuaded to also attack the church and L. Ron Hubbard personally. Some say the response by the church overreached, and some people went to jail (for tactics a lot less underhanded than the government used but got away with because those individuals in the government are “the government”).
Some say that after LRH left the scene, the entire church organization he had built was intentionally and very effectively sabotaged, the tech line up altered deliberately so that it would not produce results. Some say David Mayo took a few thousand of the cream of the crop and attempted to spin off from the church and maintain the standard tech line. It is a matter of easy record that the church viciously attacked that group. One must wonder what the motivations there were, for that attack.
This blog was, I thought, about exposing the abuses of the church, presumably with the intent of ending those abuses and deposing its present management which seems to be accomplishing nothing but destruction, making a very bad name for the church and dwindling its membership. I thought Rathbun and Rinder were in fact not just “sticking to the tech and doing an amends project by effectively striking a blow against the enemy, blah, blah, blah … tie your shoelaces and wash your face” but were exposing at least some of the truth of the situation, out of an appreciation of reason and truth and logic and the good of mankind.
To every problem, there is a solution.
Man does indeed have problems seeking solutions, and evil destruction out of malice, is one of those problems.
The idea is to overcome the evil impulses and confusions and apathies within oneself, and work towards, and work with, solutions.
You wouldn’t think it would be necessary to point any of this out. You’d think that solutions would be universally welcomed with open arms, cheered, and worked with. But no …. We here on Earth crucify, burn, feed to lions, shoot full of arrows, decapitate, imprison, execute by hemlock, stop, impede, sue and even fine for litterin’ those who would only better mankind. And it isn’t just in matters of philosophy and religion, either. It’s in politics and business and medicine. Ask Michelle de Nostradamus why he had to be so secretive (the government would have killed him). We have, as mankind, improved a lot, but there is still a way to go, and some, like terrorists, just don’t seem to want to give up their evil intentions and destruction.
Each of us has a choice every day, in many, many ways (or two choices, to be exact):
1) Follow and emulate those who would seek solutions to better mankind
2) Follow and emulate those who would oppress and destroy.
Tough choice.
ROFLMAO! Yes, scamology is a solution to sanity and happiness.
Lol.
Your entire post is just so sad.
Move on my friend…Scientology is not now…nor ever…there to “help” you.
Never at any time.
“Dianetics and Scientology are solutions”
So you claim. Can you provide proofs of what solutions D & S provides? No? Of course not.
Had this statement been written as: “Could be a solution” or “may possibly have some aspects that solve some issues” or “Some people have found D & S to have solutions for them”…. there would be room to discuss.
But a flat out 100% adamant statement of “fact”… that is where so many disagree.
“Each of us has a choice every day, in many, many ways (or two choices, to be exact):
1) Follow and emulate those who would seek solutions to better mankind
2) Follow and emulate those who would oppress and destroy.”
And there are many who think and or believe that D & S is, was designed to be, and has always been # 2, while cloaking itself as #1.
“1) Follow and emulate those who would seek solutions to better mankind”
Step one, eliminate those entities and practices that seek to push mankind further into the mud. That would include eliminating Scientology, Dianetics and exposing the purps who push such criminality.
One point of interest you have stated Nickname:
You have mentioned different periods by calling them “standard tech periods”.
Standardness does not change every few years. And the lack of benevolence in Scientology cannot be blamed on humanity in general.
The lack of benevolence in Scientology comes from Scientology. It comes from the mind of Ron.
1) If you word clear, clay demo and check out Bolivar, you disassociate from your innate conscience. Becoming expert in the Responsibility of Leaders is a training manual for a first class asshole. That is a learned behavior. A behavior learned by Ron.
2) If you read from Ron that he researched all Scientology critics and “discovered” from “in depth research” that “all” critics are criminals; you created an asshole who demonizes anyone who disagrees with Ron. This has nothing to do with humanity as a whole.
3) if you become an OT you learned that all religion on the planet, except for Buddhism because Buddha was Ron, are dramatizing an implant. So every time an OT sees a church steeple, talks to a religionist etc. the OT feels superior and looks at other religions with an airs of condescension. That also makes an asshole.
4) a person has a near death experience and says he saw a beautiful light shining within their spiritual perception. The well trained Scientologist hears this an inwardly “knows” that this person’s beautiful experience is really an implant. This destroys the communication and makes the Scientologist judge the person inwardly. This makes an asshole as there is an airs of “I know what happened to you and you don’t. Asshole.
I can go on and on. Scientology or more exactly, L Ron Hubbard is responsible for Scientology’s condition. Ron blamed everyone but himself for his condition.
What has destroyed Scientology are the doctrines of Sciwntology. And those doctrines are in written form. And those words came from Ron’s type writer. And those types words came from his thoughts.
That is where you can find the seeds of destruction. Humanity has nothing to do with it.
It’s a leaned behavior. And the behavior was study teched into the brain on course.
Nickname, thanks for the post. It got me to clarify further my long ties to the tech.
You wrote that Dianetics and Scientology are solutions. There are indeed some who try to apply what they have read or listened to in Ron’s oratory to solve their every problem in present time. To me that is same as the bible thumpers and those who quote Ayn Rand as solutions to the here and now. I think not.
There are those, me included, who use Dianetics and Scientology as tools (among other tools) in changing problems so that they are more fun. I need problems to keep from being bored.
You also wrote of the several periods/eras/stages that Dn/Sci went through. True that. I trained and audited 5 different versions of Dianetics. Each was ‘standard’ and now up to date , so don’t you dare use that old version. I got the same results with each. In Book 1 it was up to the auditor to make it go right, and the successive versions took control from the auditor and made the process the driver in the session. When it did not go right the auditor was blamed, never the process.
Sometimes I wonder if Ron would have been ahead to have walked away in mid-1953, after the PDC and Summary lectures. He could have left free, having documented his ‘hat’. Somewhat like the story of Lao Tzu. Supposedly Lao Tzu was walking out of town when a guard stopped him and required him to write down his philosophy and practices before letting him go. Thus we have The Tao (The Way) to read and learn from.
Oh. I prefer neither choice. I got tired of following and emulating others a while back. That includes Ron.
Excellent post.
Nice. Personally, I like having the freedom to agree or disagree with anything I want to. I use the parts of the tech that I want to use.
So, Nickname, are you a full OT from 65-78? If so, how do you define “full OT”?
Nice article. Minor point: Neanderthals were not ancestral to modern humans, but rather were our “cousins” — in other words, Homo Sapiens did not evolve from Neanderthal.
A more interesting point: Hubbard, who actually invented very little compared to all he plagiarized, cannot get credit for the Body Thetan concept.
For example, Thomas Edison wrote “I am convinced that the body is made up of entities that are intelligent and are directed by this Higher Power. When one cuts his finger, I believe it is the intelligence of these entities which heals the wound. When one is sick, it is the intelligence of these entities which brings convalescence. You know that there are living cells in the body so tiny that the microscope cannot find them at all. The entities that give life and soul to the human body are finer still and lie infinitely beyond the reach of our finest scientific instruments. When these entities leave the body, the body is like a ship without a rudder — deserted, motionless and dead.” (Edison was thus quoted in The Romance and Drama of the Rubber Industry,” written by Harvey Firestone and published in 1936.)
I believe the ancient Greeks may have had a similar belief. Christians verge on the same concept with the idea of possession, and possession by other entities was once believed to be the cause of epilepsy. In Islam, there are three categories of beings, and in one category — jinn, or as often called in English, genies — come in five flavors. And yes, jinn can enter human bodies.
So did Hubbard create the Body Thetan concept? I don’t think so because there are a number of similar concepts that would have been known to him. He did of course create his singular explanation of source and nature of these entities and the supposed way to get rid of them.
The eastern masters call it prana. Prana is the life force. But prana is also an intelligent life force.
We eat food and without trying or knowing anything, our good digests, essimilates and breaks down to feed the body. All without us trying.
It does so with great intelligence.
Prana is not individual beings. Prana is a universal force. An intelligent universal force. An omnipresent universal force.
Those that learn the art of meditation are able to perceive this force. It upholds and sustains floating island universes and draws tree sap upwards against gravity. It knows how to devide up chemicals and minerals from food and send them to needed areas of the body.
It is the very essence of atomic energy, attracts particles into molecules.
There is intelligence in the body. L Ron Hubbard simply did not know prana. But when he looked within with his form of emetered meditation, he experienced the innate pranic intelligence filtered through his Sci Fi imagination.
The cells are intelligence themselves. Each one is a universe unto itself. An individual being if you will, with a life span.
Ron was simply not spiritually developed enough to know what he was looking at.
So you got a Sci Fi religion.
“Minor point: Neanderthals were not ancestral to modern humans, but rather were our “cousins” — in other words, Homo Sapiens did not evolve from Neanderthal.”
Yes AND no. Genetic testing shows that the people who left Sub-Saharan Africa interbred with Homo Neanderthal (a separate species that lived in the Levant and Northern part of the Med) and thus, created a new hybrid species. This data is about a decade old now.
Great thread. Thanks to Rob, Mike and thegman. If I may add my small thoughts on the topic of BT’s and meter reads, it will be fun for me if nothing else.
As a trained auditor I knew the assessing and dating drills relied on the intention of the auditor to get reads. When I did the CC and OT2 materials I really cranked up my intention and got interesting results. On the CC a section was getting BD reads when a sudden a burst of energy left me laughing for 3 days. Every time I tried to resume auditing that section the laughter would resume. After 3 days I went into qual and explained that I could’nt audit for all the laughter. I ended up attesting Clear and posting that it was all a joke and life was NOT serious. On OT2 I hit a line that spun the dial twice around (9 divisions in 2 minutes) and by my notes disappeared from session for 10-12 minutes. I explained to the examiner that “I” and the “Universe” were one during that excursion. Twice I had run something beyond my intention level and whatever it was left me changed and feeling serene.
OT3 was another matter. I already knew I was being influenced by internal chatter whether from entities as described in HOM, or as Hubbard said on the PDC Supplements that each cell and organ was viewable as separate life systems who needed a ‘boss’. I immediately spotted the error in volcanoes and the lack of existence of Hawaii 65M years back. So I took the incident story as less than plausible but good as an outline of someone being grabbed, tortured, implanted(many ways), killed and put into another body (ala the between lives Bardos from Tibetan Buddhaism). Any ways, I ran it and searched in and around the body for reads and shoved the read though the outline. I think most blew to get the hell away from me.
After that I walked out, and refused invitations to do NOTs. I did learn that an early version of OT4 was to run the CC and OT2 materials as flow 2. To call off a line to get a read and then call off that line to get an FN. I got the materials off the web and did them again with great gusto. It was here that I observed/cognited that I was making the read (charge) and I was making the FN(harmony).
All I was ever doing was resolving hung-up self created thoughts and considerations that were held in my isolated self created universe. I agree with Lkin when he wrote: ‘It is Zero flow, all the way’ , and, with Crowley who wrote; “Every intentional act is a Magical act”.
I’m totally with you on that, Jim. I had the same realization.
Similar result, thank you.
Hi, I got stuck on OT II. Can you write me what the EP is on OT II? I’m very curious.
Hi, what you write is very interesting. I got stuck on OT II. Can you write me what the EP is on OT II? I’m very curious.
I don’t believe it’s been mentioned yet that innumerable mental impressions are made from basic life experience. I would say that we all have many basic personality traits gained or adopted from parents, teachers, coaches, friends etc. Carry this further to movies, books , music and so on. In other words, watching a horror movie we might “see” some aspect of “evil” within ourselves. Or some “angelic” virtue. Many if not innumerable imprints would be available to audit.
BT’s, the confabulation of a deluded mind so entangled in the hallucinations of non-existent beings traveling in outdated airplanes and volcanoes! Please, I’m melting!!!
Maybe indirectly related to BTs is the idea of a “Walter Mitty” fantasy allowed to run wild. Imagine yourself in some heroic or grandiose position. It would need to be in some possible realm of reality for yourself. For example, I might someday become a widely known and admired internet personality. I played with that fantasy many months ago. It was great fun!!
Two days later with little sleep, food, and pot after pot of coffee the thing was taking on a life of its own! I forcefully yanked myself out of it with “GO DO SOME MEST WORK!”
LRH fantasizing about what it would be like to be The Buddha might have worked for him.
As mentioned below, human imagination has no limits.
The comments are pure gold yesterday and today. More on the OT III mythology, love it, stories of real people and the damage done on higher levels and opinions across the spectrum and hearing from Mike multiple times. My cup runneth over.
I’m guessing since I didn’t comment the day of this may sink without a trace, but so much bubbled up for me that I have a mish-mosh of comments all rolled into one.
Let’s just call it a cluster comment!
1) Diane Valencia, long time Scilon, got in in the 70’s, did staff, then SO, then public.
Years later, inherited money. She spent it on IAS and OT VII. Was her dream. Got on and shortly after died. Many people miss her wonderful self. She wasn’t particularly old and worked hard all her life. Did OT VII kill Diane Valencia?
2) Doing ethics summaries at FLAG at one time I saw a bizarre case. This man would lie to and flirt and sleep with women, Scilons, and never call again. He’d break hearts, he’d hurt marriages, oh yeah and he was rich. He went to ethics over 25 times that I saw in the folders I saw and I didn’t see them all by a longshot for this problem.
He was like Donald Trump, couldn’t keep his pecker in his pocket and was quite the salesman. But like the Donald, he had cash. So he’d do conditions over and over again and get auditing to handle his out of control wang over and over again and then like an out of control heroin addict he’s shoot up on his drug of choice, female misery. And the inflicting of it.
Why was he kept on OT levels? Didn’t any of the C/S’s or MAA’s get that cognitive dissonance feeling from seeing how the tech didn’t work on this guy?
3) How many C/S’s saw people with incidents where the Pre-OT was Jesus, Marco Polo or Ghengis Khan? Would some C/S see 60 folders where people said they were Jesus? Did they not wonder why this was? And how weird it was and question the validity of the subject?
In other C/S curiosity, I over-heard a convo at FLAG one time. Two C/S’s trashing the daughter of a famous celeb. They were saying that she kept auditing about this same guy and situation over and over again wasting everyone’s time. But “time was money” with laughter or some inappropriate emotion. This was a long time ago. Like they knew it was not helping her and yet as C/S’s they would stand by and be snarky and not do something. Very no-sympathy. Granted I wasn’t supposed to hear this, but it stuck with me.
4) This open talk of people damaged, lack of concrete gains that we put up with and other weirdness in the comments of this wonderful place, Mike’s Place, is a continual reminder to me that not talking about your case had nothing to do whatever with keying someone in by doing so, but cutting the type of comm that would lead one out of the church.
Cluster comment over.
CNC – “. . . .Since I didn’t comment the day of this (it) may sink without a trace . . ”
I’d like to see Mike go to a two topic per week format along with Regraded Being if RB wishes. It would allow for more back and forth discussion. To me the Thursday Funnies are repetitive.
Hey, Clearly Not Clear, was that love ’em and leave ’em guy named Larry?
Hi Cindy,
I don’t remember for sure but that sounds mighty familiar.
One hopes there weren’t multiples of these awful guys.
The whole question of whether BTs actually exist or if all of the thetans were transported to non-existent volcanoes in DC8s to me is a moot discussion. My real question is where are the real clears and OTs. Heck, if I really saw a real OT acting as advertised and not stupid stories about making strangers pull their car out to free a parking space – I would rejoin the SO and get right back onto OT III that I have been in the middle of for over 35 years.
I spent 11 years in the SO around LRH (lonely death by stroke), MSH (jail, died), Mayo (blew & squirreled), Quinten (committed suicide), Diana (stuffy and mean), Steinburg, Eastman – not sure of what happened to the last 3. I have been around 100s of “OTs” and I was NEVER impressed or awed by the abilities of any of them. The only super powers they had came from their rank or position derived from the SO. An OT should at least have been at Serenity of Beingness whereas most were just harassed by the Sea Org lifestyle and were mostly quite mean spirited.
Also, I personally know of so many OTs who suffered an early death (brain tumors, various forms of cancer etc.).
11 years in the SO around the highest trained auditors and the highest levels of PCs on the planet and not one example of an Operating Thetan. Most of these people, at these highest of levels, were not a pleasure to work for or be around.
So, are there BTs really or not? Who cares – no results either way.
They were all just dramatizing their next level.
Thank you clearly pissed.
You have deduced the argument to its most essential element: it was a lie
Without going into the BT details you have revealed the truth effortlessly: it was a lie.
Maybe untruth is better. Because Ron did believe in this stuff.
One doesn’t wish suicide because of a falsehood. Ron believed in this falsehood.
Brian, you are predicating that assumption on the belief that El Con did not become more insane as he got older. For instance, he KNEW that one doesn’t get harmed by reading OT 3 material. He made that up to keep it from public view. He lied about the injuries from “researching” 3. So, there is more evidence that he know it was B.S. and just became more nuts later until he started believing his own lies.
“For instance, he KNEW that one doesn’t get harmed by reading OT 3 material. He made that up to keep it from public view.”
I always suspected this was one of those “facts” that are passed from critic to critic and before long become “common knowledge.” I have searched the materials, and the only relevant reference I found was the following:
———————————–
“As a matter of data, the only trouble really in a III OT run is running Incident I on one thetan and an incident II on another, thinking it was the first one. A pre-OT can freewheel into R6 if you run only an Incident 2. You can stop the free wheel at once by running Incident I off the same thetan you ran the Incident 2 on that started a free wheel. . . .
“If the volcano bit is run as per III directions but the Inc I is not run on same thetan, R6 begins to run off on automatic, the being can’t sleep for days, the body dies.”
(HCOB 2 Oct 68, “OT III”)
————————————
According to the above, freewheeling can be caused by something going wrong in auditing (which can then be corrected with auditing), but nothing is said anywhere about it happening simply because of being “exposed” to the story.
If you base your comment on anything more than hearsay, do say what it is.
Here you go — not hard to find. It is other places too, but this is Class VIII Tape #19 (there are other references to this in the Class VIII tapes and elsewhere):
If you were to take somebody who was a wog, right straight off the street, run Incident 2, not as the capture, but just run Incident 2, just the volcano, and let him walk off, you’d probably have a dead man on your hands within five or six days.
…
He doesn’t study the materials, never reads the materials, he’s never been audited, he’s never come up through the grades, and some how or another we force him back and run a volcano. Just that. Only we erase the volcano, and let him freewheel. Well the whole bank freewheels. All thetans in coordination do a beautiful freewheel, straight through R-6.
And he’ll freewheel for days and days. By freewheel I mean it’s automatic run. It Must start and it keeps going. Do you see? Basically that’s why the materials are confidential, so just that won’t happen to somebody. That’s why we say the case should be prepared; Well, prepared.
“…we force him back and run a volcano. Just that. Only we erase the volcano, and let him freewheel. .”
This aligns with the HCOB I quoted that had to do with actually running the incident. Forcing someone to run something isn’t the same as the person simply reading about it.
What I get from the tape quote is that if the materials weren’t confidential, someone could be “forced” (or maybe would force himself) to RUN the incident, which would cause the freewheel. The operative word is “run.”
Please report to a wordclearer and find your misunderstood. What you “get” is not what it says. Perhaps you should study all the Class VIII tapes?
In this context I think you have an MU on “run” as if someone has to force someone to run and incident rather than it happening as an uncontrolled impulse. Do you understand what he claims “freewheeling” even is?
It seems you just cannot accept anything that you have not already proclaimed to be true, even if it is written or spoken by L. Ron Hubbard. Very strange.
BTW, Hubbard does also say that in some cases people who read the materials when no set up for them may NOT go into a freewheel as they will simply not understand them — “it is too far outside their reality” but cautions that you cannot count on this being true. All those BT’s may just be stirred up and start running through Incident II.
Apparently you are not as expert on the tech as you seem to portray yourself being?
“BTW, Hubbard does also say that in some cases people who read the materials when no set up for them may NOT go into a freewheel as they will simply not understand them — “it is too far outside their reality” but cautions that you cannot count on this being true.”
I started out sincerely asking Wynski if he actually knew of a reference. What you state above would answer the question, but I would like to read the exact quote myself and come to my own understanding of what’s being said. The previous quote you posted did not do it for me, and you can say I’m the one who needs word clearing but I disagree.
Great, the Class VIII tapes and all the OT III materials and NOTs materials are available on the internet. Have at it. I tried to help out by providing a pretty straightforward reference (and anyone who claims that it is not common knowledge in scientology that if you are prematurely exposed to OT III materials it can kill you has never really been a scientologist, even RJ 67 effectively says this) but it doesn’t satisfy you or 2 Cents, so not going to waste any more time on this. It is an absolutely insane thing to even argue about, as if it is an “urban legend” or something. If it is NOT believed by scientologists, how come every single one of them ALWAYS denies the veracity of OT III materials in the media?
“If it is NOT believed by scientologists, how come every single one of them ALWAYS denies the veracity of OT III materials in the media?”
I suppose it’s because they have been instructed to keep it confidential.
Let me ask you a question, Mike. If by simply reading the materials a person could freewheel, why is it that the materials are read first on OT III, before the person audits on it?
Well, that is simple.
The theory is that by completing OT II now the person is “set up for” OT III so there is nothing to worry about. And there is a Supervisor standing over them and an auditor and C/S at the ready in case some drastic reaction happens.
The idea is that it must remain confidential because those that are not set up for it, if exposed to it, can begin to freewheel, contract pneumonia and die.
I am done trying to explain to you what scientologists believe. It does not really matter one way or the other. It’s obviously not true. Sometimes I waste my time trying to ensure the facts are made available to anyone who wants them, but it often a thankless task.
Not sure what you are trying to prove yourself right about? That L. Ron Hubbard did not consider OT III confidential or claim it could endanger the life of someone exposed to it who was not ready?
Mike: “The idea is that it must remain confidential because those that are not set up for it, if exposed to it, can begin to freewheel, contract pneumonia and die.”
I don’t disagree that the the materials are supposed to remain confidential, but I haven’t seen from any of the references quoted that freewheeling was just a matter of being “exposed” – rather, they had to do with being “forced” into running it.
Anyway, I’m not trying to prove myself right. I was just curious if there was any specific reference that referred to merely reading or being “exposed” or words to that effect. But I do appreciate all your input.
Mike, “doesn’t satisfy you or 2 Cents”? Why are you including me in this? Marildi and I have agreed on some issues in the past, but I’ve posted no comment re your current disagreement with her on what it takes for OT 3 to make a person sick.
Sorry, my error.
I have a theory Marildi that sometimes people judge others for what is in their own consciousness.
You made some claims a few times and Mike refutes it a few times. He makes his final argument to you showing you how your view is not accurate,
He gives you exact source materials to clarity. But you stopped responding to him.
This is what you have accused me of doing.
My dear, you have just demonstrated my theory may have some truth to it.
What you claim to be my flaw, has been demonstrated for all to see as your own.
I am not making a judgement. I am simply seeing what is here to see.
Hugs,
Brian
marildi, you are an idiot. I was an Advanced Courses DofP. I am WELL trained on all the materials, although I don’t have them to hand anymore. (thanks Mike for looking up the ref)
This isn’t something passed from critic to critic. This is something DRILLED into all the tech personnel who deliver those services at Flag & AOSHs.
“marildi, you are an idiot.”
Wynski, you are a child.
Marildi is a nice person. She is very intelligent.
But she is a true believer and an apologist for Scientology and Ron.
Marildi and Oracle have personally attached me many times at Marty’s.
Those personal attacks were for the crime of criticism of Ron and his processes.
No matter what you say about Ron’s make believe. True believers will condemn you personally.
This is the effect of blind belief masquerading as reason.
Marildi is a nice person. But caught in the prison of belief.
End of story!
Sorry Miraldi, but that’s the way it is.
Brian: “Marildi is a nice person. She is very intelligent. But she is a true believer and an apologist for Scientology and Ron. Marildi and Oracle have personally attached me many times at Marty’s.”
I think you’re a nice person too, Brian, but you’ve missed the boat in so much of what you claim. First of all, I am not a “true believer.” Think back and I think you’ll have to admit, if you’re honest, that what I “attack” is the misquotes and false interpretations – or assertions about Ron or the tech with no reference to support it, which you have been guilty of over and over. Even when I find and post the exact quote, you continue to repeat your altered version. I’ve even called you out on this, as you well know, but you continue to do it.
“Marildi is a nice person. But caught in the prison of belief. End of story! Sorry Marildi, but that’s the way it is.”
Sorry, Brian, but it seems to me that you are the one caught in the prison of some kind of agenda. I doubt you are fully aware of it, though, because I do think you’re a nice person.
You mean kinda like Mike just did for you?
1) Re “Where are the OTs,” a lot of people have an incorrect understanding of the term “OT 8.” Per the Grade Chart in use when OT 8 was first mentioned in the late 60’s, an OT 8 would be “at cause over matter, energy, space, time, thought, form, life,” etc. Sounds pretty magical, and something no one has achieved, including people with OT 8 certs. But the “New OT 8” delivered in the 80’s and later was different from the Original OT 8 that was never delivered.
Originally, OT 3 was supposed to get all BTs out of the way so OT abilities could be drilled on Original OT 5, 6, and 7, as a gradient leading up to OT 8. But OT 3 didn’t handle all BTs, so OT 3 Expanded was introduced, and then NOTS, as further BT handling. One was supposed to do OT 3, then NOTS, then Original OT 4, 5, 6, and 7, and finally Original OT 8. But people took years fo complete NOTS and Solo NOTS, so those rundowns were renamed as New OT 5, 6, and 7. Then Original OT 5, 6, and 7 were withdrawn, never to be seen again in the Church.
When New OT 8 was released it wasn’t intended to produce the “ability gained” of Original OT 8. One would have to do Original OT 5, 6, and 7 in order to build up to being able to run Original OT 8, and would have to have the Original OT 8 materials, which no one does.
2) Re “Why are OTs so mean,” a lot of it is cultural, trickling down from the Sea Org’s being a paramilitary cult. But there’s another technical reason. In the early 50’s, LRH said that a balance must be maintained between auditing ARC breaks (upsets received) and auditing overts (harmful acts commited). If the balance gets too skewed in favor of overts, it makes people mean. That definitely happened in the Church, and ultra definitely in the Sea Org.
Interesting theory.
So there are no OT’s now?
Perhaps you will answer as to what you think someone with no Reactive Mind and no BT’s is like?
Are the Reactive Mind and BT/Clusters the source of all aberration/misemotion/overwhelm/infirmity in any person? If not, what else is there?
I am curious as to your thoughts on this?
Mike, I was responding to clearlypissedoff who said he or she hadn’t seen “OTs” acting like OTs.
To my knowedge no one has ever reported on any blog that they attained any superhuman, magical powers on a stable basis. Plenty of anecdotes that happened and then were gone, including some of my own. But no permanent godlike superpowers.
I don’t take this as evidence that real OT can’t be reached, just that LRH didn’t finish the tech, and/or that the tonnage of case in the way is far greater than can be handled in one human lifetime. That’s not to say that tremendous case gain isn’t possible when the tech is applied properly.
I think the idea of “having no more BTs” depends on how one defines that phrase. The universe is full of spiritual beings, possibly of different types, as well as mental phenomena that seem to be spiritual beings but are actually something else. I think the idea is to become cause in dealing with this environment, not necessarily drive all BTs away, other than the specific ones putting one at effect.
Re “not having a Reactive Mind of one’s own,” I never liked that definition of Clear.
If by Reactive Mind we mean all reactivity that we’ve ever created and then not as-ised on the whole track, including every engram and GPM of our own, then give me a break — no one has erased all of that.
However, thousands of people have gone Clear as defined by the next earlier definition, “a being who can be at cause, knowingly and at will, over mental matter, energy, space, and time regarding the first dynamic.”
Having that ability doesn’t automatically erase every bit of non-BT reactivity we’ve ever created, but it does open the door to erasing it. Otherwise why would Clears ever be C/Sed to run anything but BTs? Why do people running BTs have cognitions about their own aberration in addition to the relief of a BT being gone? And how could one successfully run BTs in the first place without this specific ability?
Once one is Clear by the above definition and has gotten to a cause point regarding BTs, what’s left is one’s own GPMs, a research line LRH gave up on as being too hard at the time, but on which certain independent field auditors claim to have made some progress.
I know it’s apparently a hard question, though it seemed really simple: what do you think a Clear (person without a reactive mind) and an OT VII (no BT’s – or no BT’s they are “effect of”) is like? How would they manifest these states in the real world they live in? No misemotion? No psychosomatic illnesses? No phobias? Cause over their dynamics.
It was not a trick question. It was not a “gotcha” question.
Though you seem to be treating it that way.
Mike, I’m sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I didn’t take your question as a trick at all. It’s just that I don’t use the “no Reactive Mind” definition of Clear, because it’s dependent on the defintion of Reactive Mind, which in turn is much more complicated today than it was in 1950.
I don’t think that a person going Clear on NED or the Clearing Course has gotten rid of all reactivity of his own. I believe that his own GPMs have only been keyed out, and are still there to be handled, even after all BTs have been removed.
To more directly answer your question, I think a person who is both Clear and a Solo NOTS completion would still have plenty of case due to his own GPMs, and I’ve observed that in daily life.
After erasing many layers of his own GPMs, then a person might become truly caseless. But he’d still go up and down the tone scale due to winning or losing at whatever games he chose to play. And as he majorly expanded his sphere of operations he’d key in more case of all kinds (engrams, GPMs, and entities) to be handled.
There is also the issue of spiritual enlightenment. All of the above tech helps to create more high-toned winners. But enlightenment is above the level of winning and losing, and doesn’t seem to be addressed in Scientology, other than auditing removing barriers to it.
I’m in favor of post-LRH R&D to develop these points.
Yep, 2 cents,
After beating the implant GPMs into submission I went after self GPMs. I used variations of ‘what am I dramatizing’ and ‘what do I want to be and do and have’. Lotsa fun working back about 7 terms/opterms before I settled on the main theme*..It did loosen me further into tolerance, appreciation of others, and general understanding.
* Look up the Pilot on the web for his 26 or so main valences that were part of Incident 1. So much help I have gotten from so many, including MIKE RINDER.
I’m confused by your response. You stated “LRH said that a balance must be maintained between auditing ARC breaks (upsets received) and auditing overts (harmful acts committed). If the balance gets too skewed in favor of overts, it makes people mean…”
OTs should not have a bank, shouldn’t be committing overts and shouldn’t have ARC breaks or upsets. Also, no matter what the excuse they should not be mean. They also shouldn’t be committing suicide, beating people up, walk around scowling continually, hiding away from society, committing crimes to end up in jail or dying from brain tumors at 58 or younger.
Like I said, I knew all of the top Apollo auditors, C/Ses and those that were on the highest of the OT levels. I was around these guys for a decade except for LRH and MSH as LRH took off hiding my last 2 of 11 years and MSH was hiding separately than LRH and then in jail. Generally, I did not like most of these powerful thetans, did not like being around them and find more sincerity and kindness at my local pub.
Clearly, it came to be that anyone on the OT levels was erroneously called an OT, when in actual fact they were pre-OTs. Being pre-OTs they didn’t yet have the beingness of OTs. They still had abberations, including service facsimiles.
Also, even a real OT could have an ARC break or commit an overt. It just wouldn’t stick.
Understood about the term pre-OTs, 2 Cents. What I don’t understand though is that EVERYONE including the founder are still pre-OTs then. So, if the Founder was still a Pre-OT and he invented/created/(discovered?)/made up all of this stuff what is the point of anyone trying to become an OT?
When I was on the ship there was one and only one source of the tech, even if people like Mayo helped him write some of it, He was it. How can someone who is NOT LRH go further and expand on the bridge? If one believes in the tech then one has to believe in Source and only one Source. Any tech not from LRH is squirrelling.
Being that there really are not any real OTs or Clears after 60 plus years, means that none of this works. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it until, like I said, I see someone really perform some OT act. One shouldn’t pay their entire life’s fortune with the future of dying alone in a motorhome without his wife and kids.
Yes, even LRH was a pre-OT, not an OT. That doesn’t mean that there’s no value in tech that doesn’t get people all the way to OT in one lifetime, but does give them good case gain and take them part of the way. It’s not all or nothing. A lot of it works fine. It just wasn’t completed before LRH died. Since then others have done further R&D outside of the Church.
Not having done any OT levels I cannot answer these questions. However, I was in Tech Services In the AO at FSO for 7 years and ran across NED for OTS data that had been left lying around.I also used to log the PCs invoices for hours sheet . One day Raggy McFarland, who was a NOTS auditor came up to me opened the back of the folder and shoved it in my face. I turned my head away and she said “Whats the matter with you? I said “Look at that”. There was a NOTS 24 correction list there and I saw that it talked about BTs and clusters. Raggy said ” Oh Bill, we will have to give you your NOTS now.” That was 36 years ago, 21 of which were in the SO and I never got any OT Levels. I wrote KRs on all of the above. When a Secuity mission from RTC came to the FSO they issued a commendation on those staff who were keeping in security. My name was at the top of the list. When I went into an auditing room I found a NOTS Flow chart propped up on the meter shield. I sometimes found the examiners booth unlocked with NOTS folders inside. I found the filing cabinet with NOTS and OT III packs left unlocked. I found a HCOB on the auditor admin table and started reading it. (I always like to read everything, especially HCOBs. I thought, “This is interesting, I never read this before” Then I thought I’ve read just about everything, maybe Im not supposed to be reading this” and I looked at the title. It was a NOTS 36R R/S HANDLING AT NOTS level. I gave it to Ann Beatty the D of P saying I found a 36R laying around here. She said “But how did you know it was a 36R? I said “I read it, of course”. She freaked. Actually I only read a few lines and stopped immediately when I realized it was confidential. As far as going insane from reading the stuff, I don’t know. However, I heard that Barry Watson, one of our NOTS auditors had to leave the SO to care for his wife after she lost it after reading an OT III pack. At least he wasn’t told to end cycle on her and let her die like my wife was told by the Captain about me.I have been on 2 type III watches on the ship and I feel lucky to have made it out of there alive, and I was only watching him. I won’t go into more detail because this person, now fully recovered, reads this blog. So, I’ll leave it to those persons who have done these levels to evaluate them and I will try to stay away from them until I do the levels. Its not that I am afraid for myself, I’m afraid for you poor bastards that will have to guard or kill me.î
Rob Williamson, you hit the nail on the head. Precisely, as a trained and experienced auditor, what I found to be true…at any level. Thank you for stating it so clearly.
Finally! A rational discussion predominating! Let’s have more of this!
A while back, I found a 2008 paper all about “attached spirits ” – meaning attached to the body. The title of the paper is “Depossession Healing: A Comparison of William Baldwin’s ‘Spirit Releasement Therapy’ and Dae Mo Nim’s [a shaman] Ancestor Liberation.” Here’s an excerpt:
“Dr. Shakuntala Modi [a psychiatrist], who developed her own depossession techniques, gives the following description of one of her clinical sessions with a hypnotized patient named Dave:
“’As Dave looked, he was surprised to see that he had many layers of these spirits still left in different parts of his body. He described these layers as thin layers of a pastry. He indicated having twelve layers in his brain, fifteen layers in his eyes, fifteen layers in his shoulders, four layers in his lower back and twenty-nine layers in his abdominal area. We requested angels of the Light to remove entities from each and every layer of his body. He described how the angels, very patiently and systematically, released the entities from each layer and helped them to the Light. Then the angels cleansed and healed those areas and filled and shielded them with the Light.’
[…]
“Dr. William Baldwin, together with his wife Judith, developed their clinical depossession techniques, which he later termed Spirit Releasement Therapy, quite independently of Dae Mo Nim. For numerous reasons, it is safe to suggest that Baldwin and Dae Mo Nim had no knowledge of each other’s efforts. Yet, they arrived at stunningly similar understandings of the nature of attached, i.e., possessing, earthbound spirits, as well as of how their liberation can be effected.”
http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Publications/JournalUnificationStudies9/JUS9-07.html
Marildi, if you have time, take a look at “Confessions of an Illuminati” by Leo Zagami. There is a HUGE amount of information out there regarding the spiritual realm and how people have used contact with “spirits”, good and bad, to get what they want, through the Ages.
Thanks, Tara. I’ll check it out.
Marildi, interesting info on “depossession” that I intend to read in full when I have some time. From that paper:
“What patients explain often seems to confirm the reality of reincarnation. Both Baldwin and Modi, however, aver that they do not know whether reincarnation is an actual phenomenon, and that the only thing that is important for them is whether the information coming through the patient can lead to healing the patient.”
Bingo!
Actually, there is a lot of evidence of reincarnation. This short video gives an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk7biSOzr1k
Marildi, I know. I was really trying to emphasize the bolded part, especially in reference to this entire discussion of BTs.
Ah! Good point! Yes, it ties right in to the discussion.
🙂
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading both the article and all the comments. Thanks for this.
Another piece of misinformation: The OTIII incident has nothing really to do with the NOTss case as such and should not be confused with it. It deals with the same subject but is different.
Another piece of misinformation: a student on OT2 will not (or should not) know anything of BTs as it is not discussed on the level. The person who mentioned this may have mis-typed “OT2″ for OT3”.
I think Rob Williamson mentioned about dealing with BTs in different languages but this is simply explained by the fact that one audits in concepts, not words, on NOTs (and in OTIII). I am surprised he didn’t recall this from his Class IX materials. And I get F/N TAs fairly often and all others I know who are auditing on Solo NOTs do so as well.
I’ll check out the rest of the article tomorrow so if anyone wants to false data strip themselves on the bullshit that is floating around about NOTs then read what I say tomorrow, if I find any more that is.
Are you saying the BT’s and Clusters that are audited on NOTs did not go through Incident II but were created in some other fashion? This is not something I have heard before and I think I have read everything there is on OT III and on NOTs, including all the original transcripts of LRH talks with Mayo and Melanie Murray when NOTs was being turned into HCOB’s.
If you read the OTIII materials not all beings go through this incident. Some NOTs BTs may or may not have done so but they do not respond to III, but NOTs. All the III BTs should be gone by the time you reach NOTs. There is actually no HCOB or LRH notes reference that states otherwise. OTIII is not the only BT implanting incident on the whole track.
I’m sorry – can you tell me where in the OT III materials you are referring to? Give me the date or identify which of the undated handwritten materials it is?
What reading this blog has taught me:
BTs are the dividing line between Scientology believers and sceptics.
BT believers think it’s a science because the emeter needle leads their thoughts into that belief.
BT believers have spent their whole lives believing that Ron was the only wise man to find a “workable” truth.
This predisposition, this Altitude Instructed hypnosis, causes things to be perceived as true when they are not.
Believers cut Ron slack for wishing suicide and will attack people for bringing up this fact.
True believers in BTs, Marcabs, Grim Weaper, Coffee Grinder, Martian Implant stations, Venusion Implant Stations, Piltdown Man (which was proven as false)………………
They must believe all Psyches come from the planet Farsec etc etc.
What is amazing is the rhetoric of reason and the rhetoric of intelligence they use to support these claims of madness.
They demonstrate, in my opinion, the dangers of Scientology.
All of this hypnosis is based on a belief that needle reactions are the accurate representations of thought and feelings.
To still believe in Ron’s fallacious scientism, after knowing that he wanted to commit suicide is evidence of the mind control of belief.
True believers will have very complex scientological, tech oriented, plausible but fallacious reasons to explain the ramblings of a madman who was trying to free himself.
True believers believe in a man who lied through his teeth yet believe he will lead you to truth.
True believers will believe Scientology is the road to freedom even though the founder wished to kill himself while running BTs.
Someone hypnotized on stage will jump around clucking like a chicken. That person will see nothing wrong with it; they ARE a chicken.
I know this is an unkind thing to say to you all. But I believe it is worse to run these falsehoods on people.
No wiseman, no metaphysical perspective has ever come up with this stuff.
True believers will now try to position themselves with the religions a philosophies that L Ron Hubbard was condescending towards.
There is a desperation in being seen a legitimate.
But here is the line in the sand.
True believers believe in Farsec, Marcabs etc.
When you try to point out that Hawaii did not exist 75 million years ago or that Ron went mad running BTs, or that I did not get sick running OT3 unprepared;
THEY HAVE ALL OF THIS “RON SAYS” quotes to explain away the cognitive dissonance.
When I was a member, highly trained people got my respect.
Now that I am out and have done my own research I have to say in all honesty I have pity for those who have “study teched” falsehoods into their brains.
So many thousands spent. So many years of thinking along the lines of “Ron says” has created a mind that is distorted as far as truth is concerned.
The lynchpin holding this lie together is Ron’s BT theory.
Old timers who believe in Ron, but say they don’t to sound scientific, may not be able to be reached.
Do they have a right to believe this “ridem cowboy cosmology”?
Absolutely! I would fight for them to have it.
But freedom of thought also allows me to have the judgement that highly trained Scientologists can also be an object of pity.
People who believe in the man who said all psyches are from the planet Farsec, who tried to commit suicide and is still considered a wise man deserve our pity.
The God of the true believer is the emeter. True cognitions about life, filtered though Ron’s delusional imagination, in the solo auditing session is a self hypnosis.
Truth seekers should avoid this trap. It costs a lot of money and it will mess with your reasoning skills.
It’s dangerous. The OT levels are a danger to seekers of truth.
Ron created a lie. There are people who believe this lie.
I meditate sometimes hrs a day. I have familiarized myself with much of the nature of my mind.
I have for years, scrutinized my thoughts, feelings and body sensations. Not once did any of this content arise.
I testify through my own investigation that L Ron Hubbard was a bit crazy.
These things are not real. They are imagination.
How can a liar teach you the truth?
But believers will only see the criticism through the eyes of how Ron saw criticism.
“BTs are the dividing line between Scientology believers and sceptics.”
As a never in, BT’s for me are what pushes Scientology from any claim of “100% workable tech” into the complete sphere of religious/spiritual belief system.
I can understand training course and study “tech” as having (some) useful applications. (As I myself went through a “bull baiting” teachings when I was doing security for gay marches in the 90’s).
But BT’s…. nope. That is 100% spirituality, and that is not “100% workable tech”. That’s belief in the mystical.
That’s a well reasoned post Brian.
Foolproof – NOTs, OT III, BT’s, clusters, etc. are just attack points for those who (astoundingly) do not see the importance of Scientology (or do, but incredibly oppose it for their own internal reasons). It is no surprise, really, to read false data and confusion, alterations, omissions, of various sorts, coupled with BPC, all leading to non-differentiation and just general “I don’t know, but I’ve heard” stuff. One would expect similar to that in any field, like amateur internet self-doctors, or bizarre diets of moose-grass and beetles or something. I had no problems with NOTs. It all ran out in three months, but of course I did the entire preceding Bridge, Grades 0-Va, R6EW, and the Clearing Course. When I hear of people on Solo NOTs for years, and hear that they “went Dn Clear” and didn’t bother with Va, R6EW, or the CC …. A major part of it all is intention, and responsibility. Does the individual have a goal in sight? If there’s a joke to Scientology, a “gotcha”, it is that each individual must dope everything all out for themselves, in the end. Scientology is just a guide-rope, a help, just as LRH said, in effect – a taped route out. You do get there, but when you’re there, you find that Scientology turns transparent, and you must live your own life. It’s really an astounding work.
a “guide-rope help” which requires “ethics” and secrecy?
I hope you can understand why some of us prefer people to be informed about what they buy…
Excellent, congratulations! I’ve only heard of a few rare individuals who actually attained the promised abilities and gains of Clear and OT7, so your account is very important. Since even a single objectively documented instance of telekinesis would instantly capture the attention of all of science and boom Scn like never before, it’s very important that we find and document individuals like you. As a pre-assessment tool that will help us concentrate our resources and filter out the claimers, could you please film yourself demonstrating your acquired telekinetic abilities in a way that you feel most adept at and then send here to Mike’s blog where our team of experts are standing by?
Thx, can’t wait to see real proof of these acquired super power abilities!
As usual on this subject people are misinformed. Clear and up to OTVII are not actual OT levels so your argument is invalid. And the OTVIII they deliver on the Freewinds is a watered down version of the original so until Miscavige releases the actual OT levels your rant is again invalid. As to telekinesis I have actually done this when I did the old OT7 as have many others but due to the (at that time unknown about) NOTs case it falters. When my NOTs is run and I have done some actual OT levels I will then cause poltergeists in your living room. Ok?
So, let me see if I’ve got this right: The advanced level stuff DOES work, but it’s been altered or squirreled, and now these faux OT level materials do not work as advertised, correct? And you’re also saying that you’ve actually achieved the promised abilities of these upper levels at some point in the past, but can no longer manifest them because of some sort of bug in your case?
I’m not trying to be dismissive or mocking here, and I’m actually very open to the scientific investigation of claims made by sincere individuals, who I take you for. But when claims of telepathy and telekinesis are made, one must understand that even one objectively validated example would completely upset the known laws of physics. Given that Scn promises that folks who reach these most advanced levels of spiritual attainment are supposed to routinely be able to demonstrate these abilities, the fact that not one person has ever been able to do so must be factored into any objective analysis of these claims.
If you can no longer demonstrate these abilities yourself, perhaps you know someone who can? Establishing the factual basis of these objectively verifiable claims, one way or other, is a very important thing to do, for reasons that I’m sure that I don’t need to explain to you.
Harpoona Frittata, don’t hold your breath. All you will get from scamologists is circular logic as to why OT powers cannot be performed and/or excuses having to do with non-existent OT levels that are hidden so that OTs cannot be made (but of course with ZERO evidence to back up that claim.)
In other words, complete insanity.
The only insanity going on here is Wynski’s desire to destroy.
Quite well said!
There are too many alterations of the Nots tech, as I know, it in the post, to the degree it is almost embarassing. Wish I had time to note them. Anyway:
Just out of 2 Solo Nots sessions today. one so so. difficult. the other wonderful. Feels great. Nots theory and tech is what it is, and needs more than a blog to really evaluate, with all due respect.
Somwone has mentoned here that the history of spiritual search and knowledge is full of data on entities, so it is surprisung that peolple who truly wish to understand this are not aware of that and see Nots as weird/stupid/delusionary…. Even Carlos Castaneda in one of the later books has a wonderful chapter where Don Huan caused him to percieve his myriad of thousands separate parts…
Mike on your question: do they really exist, please remember the def of a spirit/entity/thetan: it is not a thing. just potential, can cause and create things but not them! And it can consider anything, even that he does not exist or that he is dead, whatever. So the insistence on the “REALLY exist” is a bit pointless, better to expereince “their presence” in life. (Or not..)
“THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE NOT THINGS”….. Said a wise man!
Love, compassion, tolerance, care, will to help – all these things, can they be proven, can they be scientifically judged??
B.t.w, on clearing them in 2 questions, please remember the perfectly good explanation which is given over and over (At least where I studied this-Dror Israel): They are single, and that’s easy. We are (huge) composites and that makes clearing screwy and difficult. Also, who says they get cleared? They just get free of whatever doom/hole the fell into, that’s all. And they are no demons and not all nasty, in fact mostly normal and good like you and me.
Got to go, lifes so busy and interesting!!! One more thing:
Do I believe ALL the theory? Not neccessarily. Being an Indie in a wonderful FREE (repeit: FREE) Dror, nobody cares whether I do. BUT, BUT, and this is important: If you try the tech, please try it and do it well. Just that. And judge by result. It is just a tool, always has been. AND DO IT WITHOUT ANY SUPPRESSION OR ABUSE OR THOUGHT CONTROLLING. Then you will truly know. And whatever you will know then, is just fine.
Life is simple. 🙂
Hemi
As to the data mentioned here that no one seems to know what happens to BTs when they blow this question is answered in one of the NOTs HCOBs. Essentially they go and live a life, which seems pretty decent to me as you have just freed him to do so, rather than carrying on in some sort of unconscious state. Can anyone argue that that is such a bad thing?
Of course not. That is not really the point. The question is whether these entities really exist. And how they are “cleared” with a two question process? It’s always baffled me that if these low level thetans can be cleared by simply asking them what they are and who they are, why can’t the higher level thetans get the same questions and answer them too?
Well I obviously believe or rather know that they exist. Others may or may not believe so. If the Church tech people do their job well, then people are not allowed on to the level who cannot perceive BTs and that is the trouble with a lot of people who rail against the idea of BTs, even when they have “reached” the level of NOTs – they are not properly set up as cases. This is covered very adequately in the OTIII HCOBs. As to your latter question I cannot answer that definitively – no data. The only explanation I can give for that is that they have been comatose for such a long time on the track that they have not had a chance to build up a bank but that is my speculation. There is an HCOB called “Psychs and the Whole Track” or something like this which does go into this. The other reference is the tape “Theta Body Entities” of 1952.
Your conclusion if I don’t think BT’s are what they are claimed to be is that I was not properly set up as a case?
And can I ask you what you believe the End Phenomena of Solo NOTs is? What might be the characteristics of someone with no reactive mind of their own and no BT’s and Clusters impinging on them?
The EP of NOTs is given in one of the Audited NOTs HCOBs, and which is slightly modified I believe by the advent of Solo NOTs – I am hopefully coming to the end of Solo NOTs so I cannot say definitively on the Solo NOTs addition but there is an EP check where something is looked for and required. Pierre Ethier details this on his web site.
As to “my conclusion” as to whether you are or were properly set up as a case this is not my conclusion – the OTIII and the C/S Series HCOBs state such. If you didn’t believe in BTs then you (or anyone for that matter) had no business being on the level (frankly – and I don’t mean to be mean – but you did ask me directly).I don’t say this – the HCOBs do. You would have to read them and decide for yourself. Mike, you have probably been listening too much to the natter on your web site! You of all people as ex-head of OSA knows what Black PR is.
I was really asking you what your understanding of the characteristics of a Clear and a Solo NOTs completion are — ie someone with no bank and no BTs? I have read all the HCOB’s and more.
Your response is like telling a “Clear” that if they no longer believe in the Reactive Mind (ie they came to the conclusion they were “mocking it up”) they had no business being audited on Dianetics.
This is where you constantly stumble in your commentary — by relying on some other part of scientology to explain the unexplainable or provenly unworkable parts of it (you are a bypassed case, you are PTS, you have unhandled Black PR etc etc etc)
Well all I can say is that someone with no bank and no BTs will be – very clear. This is sometimes registered by the NOTs completion having a persistent F/N TA – which means the same as my comment above. Nothing there – any more. To describe such a state is rather hard although I am achieving harmonics of it.
YEah, but I am not asking about whether they have a floating T/A.
I am asking about their capabilities in life?
The level is not necessarily designed to add abilities on but rather remove mis-owned disabilities. Of course by doing so undoubtedly one will recover old abilities. But it is not a positive gain level in that sense. Which however of course belies the great benefits of it.
Wow. Evaluative and judgmental much?
This reply was to Foolproof and before I saw your reply, Mike.
Yes you are are you not? You need to evaluate and read what I wrote properly before judging.
I’ve been very diligently following along, Foolproof.
Tara, Evaluative and judgmental is a hallmark of El Con, scamology & scamologists.
Mike Wynski says October 11, 2016 at 4:44 pm
Tara, Evaluative and judgmental is a hallmark of El Con, scamology & scamologists.
Mike Wynski, I did that gig for 12 years…
What’s real funny is if you do:
Treason: Find out that you are_____
and
Enemy: Find out who you really are
Haven’t you done just that?
Thank you folks. For talking about this.
Here is my take:
I called out class 8-12s a few posts ago and was rather harsh about their well trained purpose to promote wrong knowledge.
In my opinion of course.
So I believe you have made my case. It’s your purpose as lifetime highly trained people to be the delivery system to Ron’s BT theory.
And why? Why in God’s name did the man who sold you this wrong knowledge attempt to kill himself running BTs???
No really talks about it. It’s a herd of elephants in the room.
Thank you Brian.Seeing your posts brings me joy.??
HI Ann!!!!❤️
I did answer you on this. Ron knew his body couldn’t live much longer anyway, so he had no reason to avoid doing something that could be dangerous to it. The electro-shock e-meter wasn’t to kill his body. It was to try to blow off some particularly stubborn BTs. If that also killed his body, so be it.
Can you explain the theory of electricity blowing off BT’s to me? I have never been able to wrap my wits around this? BT’s are “theta” and theta has no mass, wavelength, location etc etc How does a physical universe energy interact with a BT? Are they impacted by gamma rays too? X Rays? Or is electricity the only physical thing that somehow crosses over from MEST to theta?
Mike, this is my best guess as to LRH’s thinking. Thetans who are participating in the physical universe do so via mocked-up energy flows, whether or not they have bodies. If they don’t like an incoming energy flow they resist it with a counter energy flow of their own, creating a ridge. If that doesn’t work to their satisfaction they leave. BTs are either thetans or mocked up by thetans, so they should be affected by this the same as we are.
Thanks for answering.
Not sure I can comprehend this really, or why electricity is the only sort of energy apparently that can impinge on a thetan (even that is something that seems somehow contradictory — I understand how it can impact a BODY but not on something with no mass or wavelength).
But this is getting off into the weeds….
Mike, here’s a reference on mental energy:
“Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the energy picture is energy just as you see energy in an electric light bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that mental energy was different from physical energy. In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher level physical energy.” (FOT)
You wrote: “BT’s are ‘theta’ and theta has no mass, wavelength, location etc etc. How does a physical universe energy interact with a BT?”
I would say it interacts with the BT’s bank – which is actual physical energy – and the bank then acts on the BT.
I could see how blowing BTs with electric shock could possibly work … so again, I can see it based on what I know about the NOTs series. So here we go:
LRH is a more capable being than the BTs who don’t want to leave or who keeping coming back. Whether you yourself, or a BT, you are connected to each other by tactile based on NOTs theory and therefore the BT would experience any physical shock the same as you.
I could also suppose that BT who refuses to leave, or can’t leave, or doesn’t want to leave could be zapped so hard that he goes into shock/unconsciousness allowing LRH to boot him off with “Theta Hand” technique even while LRH himself also experienced the same shock.
All that being said, I don’t give 2 hoots whether BTs/CLs exist or not, or whether LRHs explanations are correct or not. I crack open my meter, locate a read, blow it by standard and indicated procedures, and I feel great after 20 minutes. At the end of the day, after 6 sessions, I feel like a thousand bucks, after 3 years, like a million bucks. I don’t have the CO$ breathing over my shoulder, I don’t have to defend anything, but I do have the inherent purpose to have others experience the same gains I have received.
Mike, did my reply to Foremost get deleted? If so, what was the problem?
It was just going on toooooooooo long. As I said, you should start your own blog.
I just thought that LRH reference about “mysterious influences” added something new to the discussion. But okay, it’s your blog.
I would say it interacts with the BT’s bank – which is actual physical energy – and the bank then acts on the BT.
A BT is no different from you — he’s merely in a particular lower condition, awareness, etc. as long as he is in a state of being a BT — obliviously stuck to you yourself and/or the body. You wake him up, make him leave, maybe he’ll go off and find his own body, maybe he’ll fall asleep again and coast off into another body/object, etc. NOTs is about removing a BT and a BT’s bank influence off you. Minimally gets him off your tactile line.
LRH talks about how you have messed yourself through your trek through eternity, and from that I deduct that many of the BTs/CLs you deal with have been with you for a very long time, and not necessarily exclusive to, or bound to this lifetime body only.
So I’m not discussing scientific proof here, I’m making deductions from the NOTs series and whatever I know and suspect. I really can’t be bothered getting involved in silly discussions as to why you can’t measure a thetan in terms of millimeters, why you can’t see him through a microscope and why his excrement is never found in a petry dish.
My two cents,” How did you know that Ron knew?
The that is speculation masquerading as knowing.
Ron says and Ron knows and Ron researched and Ron discovered is not knowledge.
It is a blind assumption.
Brian, LRH was 74, sick, and had already said that he wouldn’t live much longer.
That may be. But he also made his end. I believe in and see the law of karma everywhere.
The wisemen I have known where very elegant old joyous creatures. A joy to all. And when they died, that day became a memory of good.
Our good man Ron had Visteral and a hidden funeral for his hidden life.
I am only observing the obvious. Telling it as I sees it.
I thank Ron for a lot also.
I believe that this whole story is either complete hogwash or was mis-intrepreted by its author.
Believe what you like, Foolproof. I too, met the man who did it and no, he definitely would not lie about something like that…or anything for that matter.
Fool said, “Essentially they go and live a life”. How? there are not enough bodies to go around. So, just say that you don’t know the answer. Why lie about something unimportant like that?
Ok No-Wynski, let’s put it like this, when the BT blows he then would have the capability to go and lead a life which most people would have understood – apart from those who are frantically trying to find outpoints in the subject because they are frightened to death of something in their minds and spend hours daily railing against the subject.
As to the data that Jesus did not mention BTs in the bible mentioned below somewhere I will insert this bit of the bible for any Christians or others who are interested:
**************************************************************************************************************************
Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Man
(Matthew 8:28-34; Mark 5:1-20)
They landed in the region of the Gerasenes, which is just across the lake from Galilee. When Jesus stepped out on the shore, a man from the city met him. This man was controlled by demons and had not worn clothes for a long time. He did not live in a house but in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he screamed, fell down in front of him, and cried out in a loud voice, “What do you want from me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you not to torture me!” because Jesus was in the process of ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. On many occasions the unclean spirit had seized the man, and though he was kept under guard and bound with chains and shackles, he would break the chains and be driven by the demon into deserted places.
Jesus asked the man, “What’s your name?”He answered, “Legion” because many demons had gone into him. [Another text states that he replied “I am legion”.] Then the demons began begging Jesus not to order them to go into the bottomless pit.
Now a large herd of pigs was grazing there on the hillside. So the demons begged Jesus to let them go into those pigs, and he consented to that. Then the demons came out of the man and went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the cliff into the lake and drowned.
Now when those who had been taking care of the pigs saw what had happened, they ran away and reported it in the city and in the countryside. So the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus and found the man from whom the demons had gone out sitting at Jesus’ feet, dressed and in his right mind, they were frightened. The people who had seen it told them how the demon-possessed man had been healed. Then all the people from the region surrounding the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were terrified. So he got into a boat and started back.
Now the man from whom the demons had gone out kept begging Jesus to let him go with him. But Jesus sent him away, saying, “Go home and tell what God has done for you.” So the man left and kept proclaiming throughout the whole city how much Jesus had done for him.
*************************************************************************************************************************
Seems like Jesus was auditing NOTs to me! Except he would have done much better with a meter and the commands of NOTs of course. And it seems like the “man from the city” had an F/N TA at the end of his session! (BTW LRH remarks that most BTs are benign.)
Except that everything dealing with Jesus was an R6 implant. LRH said so, so it must be true. Right?
No, Espi, LRH didn’t say Jesus was an R6 implant. He said there was a man on the cross in the R6 implant, and the man was NOT Christ.
Listen to this 6-minute excerpt of another lecture where Hubbard talks about Christ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T80b62umnis
Espi, a person researched this subject and collected all the El Con quotes about Jesus here: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/christians.html
Read the quote from R6 therein.
Ah! The terrible twins – Espi and Wynski! Did I say that I am a Christian? No. Do I believe the story, no. Do I care? No. If you had followed the thread instead of just seeing my name and trying desperately to find some way you could invalidate what I said you would have realized that I don’t give a hoot whether Jesus audited BTs or whatever. Someone else said that Jesus never mentioned BTs – I simply pointed out that he obviously did. Alright now chaps? You don’t have to attack everything that I say.
Fool, you are incoherently rambling. I simply directed Espi where the quotes from LRH are vis-a-vis Jesus as he seemed to have some misunderstanding or incomplete info..
I never mentioned you or your beliefs about Christ. You are exhibiting insane behavior. Which I have found to be NOT unusual in people who have been brain wahsed by scamology.
Socrates thought he had demons in his head. I won’t pretend to go into the pros and cons of “psych drugs”, but I don’t think anyone has offered a solution to schizophrenia. The theory of drugs is, I conjecture, to somehow manage to dumb down the volume, selectively, to target either the “offending” personality, or to target the conflict and tension, hope to “drug out” the needle or quill that sets the person off, and so make the individual at least “livable”. Who knows? But I wouldn’t try addressing that with NOTs – more likely it would resolve with something much simpler, like CCH’s (objective processes designed to un-stick the person’s attention and get them more into contact with the present environment). In most people, things don’t get as out of control as schizophrenia, but you can find people who shift valences almost like the pendulum on a clock. The whole area of valences, valence shifts, GPMs (goals-problems-masses), and NOTs, is obviously one that interested LRH from the very beginning.
BT-like entities are widespread in folklore around the world. The Hebrews knew them as dybbuks, literally “clingers”, so Jesus’ practice of curing people by driving out nasty spirits would not have been unusual to his contemporaries.
The Shangqing school of Taoism taught about spiritual beings that lived within the body with various powers that could be harnessed by adepts.Shangqing has changed over the centuries into the folk practice of Maoshan, almost a Chinese version of Voudoun; ying guǐ, literally “dead spirits” are said to be all around and try to infest the living. If you walk through a graveyard, there’s a risk of them following you home. Or they can take up residence in a statue or painting whose eyes look directly at the viewer. And so on.
There are many reasons why a person might imagine that one part of their mind is another spiritual being and separate from them. Just like a child with an imaginary playmate. If they have a ‘cognitive dissonance’, in other words two contradictory postulates, they may rationalize it by assigning one side of the conflict to self and the other side to a not-self. As the late Dennis Stephens discussed (http://tromhelp.com/Game_Strategy/Dissociation.pdf), LRH was a dissociative personality and therefore particularly susceptible to this type of misconception.
Here’s a tip for dealing with apparent BTs that works for me. If there seems to be a boundary in your mind between self and some not-self entity, then spot the postulate conflict. In my experience, the BT ceases to exist and there remains just self, the same self, on both sides of the former boundary. However, I’ve only tried this once because I’ve never been able to find any more BTs after the first trial.
BT is defined on its own. Those other “entities” you mention are not, by CofS definition, BTs. Good choice of name, apparent BTs. There are many explanations of what /who they are out there.
David Cooke said, “BT-like entities are widespread in folklore around the world. ”
So? Elf like tiny people are also widespread in folklore around the world. They were called leprechauns in Ireland, brownies in Scotland, etc., etc. They don’t exist despite being in folklore around the world. Who woulda thunk it?
Hubbards idea of BTs and clusters is not new. Like almost everything else he wrote the concept came from a much earlier writer.
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=21933
Here’s the quote:
recently a reader on ars newsgroup asked about the
source of OTIII…which was promoted widely in Ron’s Journal 1967
as:
THE WALL OF FIRE
from the footnote at the bottom of this page:
http://www.lermanet.com/excalibur/
End Note 1 – It is apparent that the great charlatan L Ron Hubbard
wanted you to think OTIII and the NOTS, NEDS and other secret upper
levels came from Excalibur. However, the true source is from a book
also published around the turn of the last century, © 1882 by John
Ballou called “OHASPE”, notable is that OHASPE was claimed to have
been written by “automatic writing” mentioned by Hubbard in Dianetics.
The concepts use to describe the condition the OT levels are supposedly
a cure for are in this book. The dense, esoteric, nomenclature does
not make for easy reading of OHASPE or of Dianetics.
On the “OT Levels” is where you get rid of infestations of body
thetans
drujas is a word used for evil spirit or hubbard’s “body” “thetan”
” A knot was bound upon me: foul smelling slaves were clinched upon
me, millions of them, tens of millions; and the shafts of their curses
pierced my soul: I was as one lacerated and bound with salt” page 490
P. 21
“Oh that I could be freed from them” page 491 P.24
“2. Gessica had the vessels constructed with walls of fire around the
margins, to prevent the drujas escaping. And there were built in all
four hundred vessels. Each capable of carrying one hundred million
drujias.
“the ethereans drove the drujas into the vessels, whereupon the door
way in the wall of the ship closed. And then the workers of the ship
put it under way…
In the first year, Gessica delivered five thousand million drujias, in
the second, he delivered thirty five thousand million drujias
Page 497 P 2 – 498 P 4
The drujias were being delivered to Earth”
—————————————
There is a lot of false and wild data being bandied about here, most of which is negative and which is exactly why LRH wanted to keep these levels confidential. I find it quite offensive that many people on here are being offensive and ridiculing about this subject and assuming that because they cannot perceive BTs that others can’t. It seems that this article has unleashed a BT bashing party and many are weighing in with their 2 cents worth. Well, fine. But if I were to retort that “Per the Esto Series, people with personal out-ethics pull in case and also have a drop in perceptions (in particular OT perception: that of perceiving BTs and clusters correctly).” you will attack what I say as being outrageous and yet that is exactly what is happening here. It seems that it is ok to have a bash at BT theory yet I can guarantee that people will now reply to my post by trying to belittle me, or the BT theory in some way. You can have your theories but I and all others who audit on these levels can’t? Seems rather fascistic as I don’t believe that most here who are criticizing this really care about the people who do audit these levels but are just interested in belittling them. And I am not talking about being ripped off or mistreated by Flag and Miscavige either, but just the subject of BTs here being discussed.
You can have your theories but I and all others who audit on these levels can’t?
No, of course you can have your theories too. And if they bring you relief/happiness/a bettered state then more power to you. I have no beef whatsoever with anyone finding something that works for them — as long as it does not result in abusing people or ripping them off.
The problem with quoting scientology to explain why people don’t find it workable (they are too low ethics level/PTS/haveMUs/Evil Purposes etc etc etc) is that if you don’t buy into the subject as being infallible, offering a scientology explanation for why you don’t find it workable is utterly pointless.
Very true, Mike. It’s like saying that people don’t want to read dmsmh because they’ve got abberations preventing them from doing so rather than they are exercising free choice and voluntarily rejecting it.
What is the difference between offering a Scientology explanation (which I do) or a non-Scientology explanation (which others do)? Is my Scientology explanation then invalid?
I am saying it is not going to resonate with those who do not believe there is validity in scientology.
Mike we all know that people who have decided that Scientology is “bad” are highly unlikely to change their minds. Such is not my intention.My remarks are aimed at those who have partaken of and may yet still avail themselves of the subject and have been hit with some sort of false data or black PR.
Foolproof, I think this is a fair point by Mike.
Every workable system of betterment worth its salt in the real world has to scale this bar of being able to be explained not only according to their logic but by conventional logic as well. If it doesn’t it starts to rely more and more on people taking certain aspects on good faith in order to ‘understand’ the system. This becomes a problem when proponents of the system claim it to be logical and able to be understood and workable. It simply falls apart when scrutiny is applied.
Imagine if someone approached you with an idea that they had, and you didn’t understand exactly how it would work in practice. If instead of trying to explain in terms already understandable to you about how it would work, they start referring adamantly to other bits in their idea that they assume as true which hasn’t been established as such yet for you. Would you give them the time of your day? Or would you insist that they show you evidence, or as a substitute, a reasonable explanation that doesn’t rely on assumptions that they expect you to make.
It’s almost like putting yourself or family down as a reference in your resume. That doesn’t go a long way in convincing me to hire you, and makes me question if there is a reason why you can’t get anyone else without a vested interest to vouch for you.
However, all these concerns would be wiped clean away if there were tangible results. OTs and Ron himself were advertised by Ron as beings of incredible enlightenment and power due to their applications of Scientology to their lives.
But all I, and a lot of other people see and hear about is slightly happier people at a steep, and I would say unreasonable cost to their time and their money. And a lot of sad people, and a lot of dead people who didn’t need to end up that way. To me, that says that this set of systems has not delivered on its promises and as such should be abandoned.
As for arguing over the minutiae in scientology, you can make obscenely meticulous diagrams about the electronics in a machine that are a hundred percent accurate but if all the machine does is flash its lights and play some tunes after having been promised to bring about world peace and cook breakfast, you can’t blame people for being referred to Chapter 300 Subsection 4 part ii) of the Owners Manual and asking, and? so what?
From what you’ve written in your comment, it seems to me you are not out to conclusively prove to yourself or anyone else that scientology works, but merely hoping to convince the unsure and vulnerable who are escaping the clutches of the cult and may be receptive to your claims, since they may have already taken certain (and this is my opinion) scientology falsehoods on faith as being true.
Purple Stain: “From what you’ve written in your comment, it seems to me you are not out to conclusively prove to yourself or anyone else that scientology works, but merely hoping to convince the unsure and vulnerable who are escaping the clutches of the cult and may be receptive to your claims, since they may have already taken certain (and this is my opinion) scientology falsehoods on faith as being true.”
Similarly, does it ever seem to you that many critics are not out to conclusively prove that scientology DOESN’T work, but merely hope to convince the unsure and vulnerable who HAVE ALREADY ESCAPED the clutches of the cult and who may be receptive to these critics’ claims – since many of the critics now belong to their own cult and have faith in its anti-scientology dogma which they have taken on faith?
A very common game people play is called “Aint’ it awful,” which is described here: http://www.coach4lifechange.com/2010/04/aint-it-awful/
A quote from the link in my comment above:
“So what is the pay-off in playing? It is a way of relating to people in a kind of code that everyone understands. People playing this game also get to feel Right and Righteous, a step above those being ‘awfulized.’ There is also the drama and attention that comes to the one who begins the game or knows one thing more awful than the next player…
“There is no real intimacy or genuine connecting going on.”
Marildi inanely said, “Similarly, does it ever seem to you that many critics are not out to conclusively prove that scientology DOESN’T work”
One doesn’t seek to PROVE a negative. All but idiots know that.
Your “logic” is faulty.
“It is widely believed that you can’t prove a negative. Some people even think that it is a law of logic—you can’t prove that Santa Claus, unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster, God, pink elephants, WMD in Iraq and Bigfoot don’t exist. This widespread belief is flatly, 100% wrong. In this little essay, I show precisely how one can prove a negative, to the same extent that one can prove anything at all.” http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articles/proveanegative.html
And I didn’t actually attack others with a different opinion, just pointed out that I could do so. Yet others can attack me and my beliefs (but that’s ok)?
by “attack me and my beliefs” you mean – what? Asking simple questions? Like, how do I verify the existence of BTs without agreeing to all of it in advance?
Anyway, you’re having a discussion in public, and so you are not a clam. That does not mean that I have to agree with you (or you with me), but you’re actually communicating and surely that has to be better than everyone agreeing (but not actually communicating).
Jeff, most die hard scamologists seem to forget that El Con hisself wrote, “All men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.”
Probably because El Con Tubbolard would issue shoot to kill orders against those who dared to counter the writings & opinions of himself.
😉
Foolproof, one of pieces of wrong knowledge Ron taught was that disagreement = attack.
That is simply L Ron Hubbard’s inability to dialogue as an adult. His students have this triait sometimes.
The claim is invalidating knowledge.
My argument is that true knowledge cannot be invalidated. True knowledge loves being doubted because wisdom is confident in itself.
Only believe can be invalidated by criticism.
I believe that these folks here with all of this training have hypnotized themselves into a state of making the BT theory real.
They claim it’s real because people blow charge. They claim it’s real because the needle goes blip.
What you are running are symbols. Symbols of thought dressed up in Ron imagination.
Just because you can take a mind to cognition does not mean you haves solved human suffering.
In fact you have put a burden of falsehood on that search with Sci Fi imagination.
These highly trained people who are posting here are selling a delusion.
That is my view. That is a lot of people’s view.
We are not attacking you. We are simply saying’ We do not agree with you. We think Ron had some BTs in the Bulfry.
The highly trained Scientologist can be a source of wrong knowledge.
That is my experience. That is my direct experience of meditation my whole life.
No one came up with OT3 stuff like Ron.
This associating OT3 with other philosophies is simply an attempt to try to look normal.
Non and I mean non of these other metaphysical perspectives had anything even remote to the hog wash Ron came up with.
Ron is the only one in the history of forever to come up with this stuff.
And his final OT research???
Wishing suicide to free BTs.
Something is not right hear. Brains have been messed with here.
Please feel free to disagree but just know that if you use ad hominems I will conclude a few things:
1) you are protecting a faith and have no knowdge in which to argue
2) you are still influenced by Ron in your head: attack
Brian, excellent points.
I just read about “critical listening” in the very basic Comm100 course that every single student must take to get any degree from Fort Hays State University. You obviously are a “critical listener” and I appreciate that. I had shut that off while I was in CofS. I’m happy to say that I’ve regained that ability.
Critical thinking was Ron’s enemy.
“Have you ever had a critical thought about L Ron Hubbard” is a hypnotic command.
Think of it! How many times was this questioned asked of the of?
Just think of it!
Knowing full well that any critical thought made you a criminal worth being excommunicated, losing family, friends, livelihood etc etc.
When folks get all hot and bothered by criticism of BTs and Ron, I can easily surmise that the auditing command:
“HAVE YOU EVER HAD A CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT L RON HUBBARD?”………………
Has caused a hypnotic reaction that demonizes critics.
They say it’s there point of view, but it is not.
It is the product of fear of punishment for thinking freely.
This is the product that Ron has fashioned in the minds of those that believe in phenomenon that science itself refutes.
And when science refutes something like Hawaii did not exist 75 million years ago, and they still believe……………..
That is someone whose reason has been invaded with wrong thinking, wrong knowledge and blind belief masquerading are truth.
It may take them many years to unravel the mess Ron made of their cognitive faculties.
@Foolproof. . .You use “black PR” and “false” to describe others demand for evidence. Hubbard used “hidden standard” to deflect looking. You waste time arguing the merits of Scientology among people well used to Hubbard’s tricks. Better to start a mission in the part of town where people are less skeptical and more desperate for answers. Maybe they will be receptive to Hubbard’s hard sell and “prosperity Scientology.”
BT “theory” isn’t a theory. So no, you can’t have a theory that isn’t a theory. You CAN have a belief however. Which is all you have. Like a belief in ghosts, the tooth fairy, unicorns that fart rainbows, et al.
Foolproof,
I spent a lot of time auditing BTs and to this day there are benefits I still have from that auditing. However all the fear and uncertainty that level generated negated the benefits until I realized it was Hubbards false solution to accessing what I was creating; not the BTs and Clusters.
At a certain point I ran into a period of time when I had a very tough time dealing with life and the whole BT belief was shattered as it had nothing to do with my mental condition and from that point on it was me calling the shots not a bunch of made up entities I was creating.
Sure the BT belief can work to get benefits up to a point. If you are assigning others for your condition you have bought the big lie that Hubbard perpetrated.
We denigrate that belief because it has harmed many more than it has helped.
Hubbard was a master at creating control mechanisms that allegedly helped us.
Once you see the lies built into the “true tech” it is not possible to go back to that.
Hubbard did lead me to the original sources he stole from which are much more usable as they don’t have his boobytraps in them.
BK – why don’t you just go and see a reputable auditor and get your NOTs case sorted out? I mean this nicely, not in a derogatory way.
Because the “NOT case” doesn’t exist for a person until he creates it through belief.
Bingo
Well, L Ron Thompson is now offering himself as a philosopher who has invented a science of the mind and life and written hundreds of books on it – it’s quite simple then – the NOTs case doesn’t exist. Now this is a very simple philosophy, simply put! I think he has the real answers, don’t you?
Actually Foolproof, the way to convince us of your position is to refute his idea that “we create BTs” with another idea; yours.
By attacking him as a person you simply reveal that you are protecting a belief and are bankrupt as far as ideas are concerned.
Your reply was ad hominem.
Auditing BTs is arguably Hubbard’s space opera spin on occult visualisation and guided imagery, and not hugely dissimilar to practices used in Shamanism (shamans also extract entities, but I imagine only when needed), Wicca, Neopaganism, New Thought, Satanic Atheism, Tantrism, Rosicrucianism, even Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. The key difference, as usual, is that Hub takes it to such militant extremes, makes it compulsory, drags it out, sells it as fact and, oh yeah, sells it. ?
Where do thetans come from? That is not that difficult to know.
First of all, I did not create myself. I have been created.
Definition of God: That something that had not been created.
All other that exists had been created.
God did not create everything.
The beings created by God have the ability to create life. Thus beings.
I am not a being that had been created directly by God. Thus I cannot create life nor beings.
There are beings around that can create life. Flowers, insects, animals, lifeforms.
I cannot do that too.
We should stop destroying life. Our own or other life.
Life is much more valuable then everything else.
Good enough for an answer?
Can you create life?
If not honor those that can. We are not the top of the world that can do what they want.
If you master that you have taken the first step to OT. You can audit all day all life and make it nowhere. If you audit to make money or control others or destroy life or freedom then you end up being in a trap. That is by design so. Sorry!
Interesting. After the NOTs levels that audit BTs comes OT VIII, which is where the pre-OT is to create some theta. This is according to an OT VIII who wrote up the level from memory, which she said was close to perfect.
That’s the fifth different version of OTVIII that we’ve heard about, Marildi. Which one is the correct one? Let me guess your answer: it’s the one that contains no negative information about Scientology or Hubbard. Which definitely eliminates the “LRH was the Antichrist and Jesus was a pedophile” version, I guess.
Yes, the church reportedly put out different versions at different times. I don’t know how many of them included the command to create some theta, but apparently this one did.
Marildi, creating theta and creating a thetan are 2 entirely different propositiions. Thetans don’t create other thetans – this is complete false data floating around in the anything-goes Freezone. See the Factors, points 1 and 2 for the answer. The OTVIII dude has a Mis-U.
Hi Foolproof,
I see what you mean about the first two Factors. However, in 1954 (after The Factors were published) LRH himself stated that a thetan could create another thetan:
———————————————-
Now, this mustn’t be confused with another function of the thetan, another action, another ability. He can actually create another thetan, just like that, bang! He can duplicate himself. That is to say, he can give birth to or create or bring into being an entirely different life unit – an entirely new, different life unit-which in its turn can have a full personality, which can have full determinism, which can do everything and anything that he himself can do and can be as powerful as himself, or more powerful than himself, according to its endowment.
[…]
A person is totally capable of doing this. A man can get himself thoroughly haunted by living beings – living, breathing beings – simply because he can duplicate himself. This is not machinery, and it is not part of the thetan, by definition. But it is the thetan moving outward through the second dynamic of creation into a third dynamic of becoming a group.
[…]
You would have, let us say, a hundred million souls on earth during one period of its ability to advance, and at another period you would have a couple of billion. Well, how could they possibly disappear? Do they ever become less? Do they just always become more and more and more and more and more? No.
An individual could repostulate himself back into his original creative entity – you know, he could just say “I am no longer myself…” Nobody else would influence him to do this, you see. He’d say, “I am no longer this unit. I am now another unit which created me in the first place.” You see how he could do that?
[…]
You recover an individual’s knowingness, one of the first things you would recover is the fact that he has occasionally multiplied himself.
————————————–
The above is from an excerpt of LRH tape lecture 20 October 1954 “The Parts of Man, Overt Acts and Motivators” More of the excerpt can be found on David St Lawrence’s blog post, “Supplementary Information on Entities – part 1 extended” http://workabletechnology.com/?p=424
The above is scripture and an article of faith
Espi we have discussed this OTVIII nonsense time and time again yet you still hang on to the insidiously invented (by someone and not LRH) Lucifer tripe.
Again, I am honestly curious about how you know what is and isn’t OT VIII and how you know for a fact the Jesus is a pedophile is not authentic? I personally do not believe it is either — but I have no factual data one way or another. To say “this is not LRH’s style” is simply incorrect. If you read Pain and Sex HCOB and others about psychs, including the reference on Farsec (which as far as I know has never left the church — there was only a handful of copies handed to you to read and then return at once) you would not deduce this writing could not have been Hubbard.
So, I am very curious about this.
LRH never contradicts himself in official writing – to admit Jesus existed after the OTIII data is non-sensical. The “bulletin” itself is just so far off the wall – have you ever read an HCOB that grated on you or you thought was a crock? I suppose I could go into a big analysis of it line by line but if anyone wants to believe it is not going to change their minds as they have some agenda for doing so, which was the document’s original purpose.
Thanks for answering. It’s just that it doesnt read right to you. That is fair enough.
As for your initial statement: LRH never contradicts himself in official writing you are not serious are you?
I am seriously ROFLMAO.
SERIOUSLY WRONG Fool. I can think of two refs in one second. 1) The PL stating that sexual activity by public (and class IV staff) is NOT actionable by the Church. 2) The listed ACTIONABLE Crime of sexual activity damaging to a scientologist.
El Con contradicts himself SO much that I could almost always stop a Comm Ev or Court cold just by showing references contrary to the ones being used to bring the charges.
A common thread I see with people like Fool, Marildi & Two Cents is that when challenged it turns out that they are barely scientologists and are ignorant of the subject matter. Marildi having no knowledge of RJ-67 being the most telling.
Thank you Terra.My reaction after reading your crackling sparking piece was Laughter.I literally cannot believe that I would have jumped off a cliff for Ron, Sea Org and those secret OT Levels when in SO.When I hit the BTs I would have laughed so hard the cans would have melted! Truely astounding how blinded I was to what I was actually worshiping when I thought Ron was my savior.Thank you for all your pices,excellent every one.?
Edit…for all your pieces.Thanks.
Ann, what do you think you were actually worshiping?
Well,give me a minute the old memory has to fire up.Source is my first answer and that = Ron.The Sea Org and what our Mission was,to clear the planet and put ethics in on the Universe.And third answer for me would be the Bridge because I would have to go up it to reach the Prize,the OTs.Roll all that together and you have me @ age 22-26 or so starting in 74.Until I realized white hats can turn black in a nano -second.❤️
The beginning of the end was in 1950 when El Con published an untested, false practice and called it a “science”.
Terra Cognita mentioned she liked MATH.
Let’s take a mathematical view of revenue generation here.
Those who lived through it have stated it takes $30,000 a year to be “on the level”
“On the level” means solo auditing OT 7.
75 sec check questions must FN “floating needle 3x back and forth” per GAT *golden age of Technology* LOL.
These confessional questions are loaded with Intelligence type queries to find out if the subject is reading the Internet ?
Seen an anti-Scientology movie ? Know someone who is disaffected ? Been privy to *Black PR* ?
This is at the rate of $8500 for 12.5 hours. It mostly goes 25 hours every six months. There are Case supervising fees monthly as well.
Some 2500 are “on the level and some have been “on the level” for some 20 years. Some even 30 years,
In spite of numerous pushes to get 10,000 “on the level” it has rarely exceeded some 3000 and there is a considerable drop off rate.
Those on the level are tagged in different colors on large visible Board. (like in HGcs)
Green ~~ doing well
Purple ~~ sick, developing serious conditions, cancer, diabetes, etc. etc.
Red ~~ not turning in their stats and not doing their ordered multiple sessions a day, not returning phone calls to the D of P or Ethics Officer.
Yellow ~~ bogging in Ethics or in the doldrums in ethics without resolution.
Black ~~ HCO/Office of Special Affairs *particles* ie. evidence they are still friending SPs on Facebook after being warned to UNFRIEND. Also those ordered to turn in their materials.
So, in summary, some 3000 paying $30,000 a year to be “on the level”
You do the math.
So Karen, what are your thoughts about the numbers that Terra speaks of?
I believe I have asked you questions many times over the years and you have not once ever answered them.
Is there any reason that you have never responded to me in all of these years of me asking you questions?
I would love to get your views as you a are Class 12. You criticize the church. But is there any rethinking or thoughts about BTs?
Your input would be a valuable argument for BTs are real as you say you were trained by Ron.
During the late 1980s I was a young Scientologist on staff at the Delphian School who worked closely with two senior executives who were doing their OT levels. Over the course of the three years of my nearly daily interaction with them, I observed in increasing alarm the changes in their personalities. At the time I was under the delusion, as we all were, that the magical OT levels provided the keys to the kingdom of super powers. My delusions, coupled with the strange contrasts in their transformations, obscured the plain evidence of their failing grace.
They were both women. In my eyes they were powerful women, confident in their authority and quick to exert it. The two, although they worked closely together as the Dean (Div 4 Sec) and Qual Sec, could not have had more different personalities and reputations, one as the hard driving and feared enforcer of discipline and the other as the kind and understanding mother figure. These were roles the two women would exchange over the course of their OT levels, and the period of transition would leave the school’s students and half of its staff members quaking in their boots, wondering which archetype would be on display at any given moment.
It was a terrible thing to see the two of them return from their six-month visits to Flag. The mean woman’s shoulders sagged ever further as she turned into a weepy mess, constantly extolling the bravery of the men in the room, while the young women who used to look up to her now regarded her in pity and dismay. The transformation of the nice one was the worst of all, as she grew pitiless and cruel, snapping at people to get in line and sending them to Ethics if they so much as looked at her sideways.
I wondered why they had to keep going back to Flag. Every six months. You can’t imagine how much that disrupted the school’s activities and scheduling. The straw that broke the mean one’s back was the time she was forced to delay her Flag trip because it coincided with graduation the year it was moved from May to June. When she finally went to Flag, they kept her for three months. I can’t imagine how much it cost the school. (And you can be sure the staff muttered about it, because we all knew the executives paid for their OT levels with student tuition—money that went to them while most of us were lucky to get $100 a month.) We all could see how much it cost her, however, when she finally came back from Flag a broken woman, hunched and clutching her arms as she huddled down the sides of the hallways.
Flag registrars would regularly come by Portland Org and CC, admonishing us to put some money on account at the Mecca of Technical Perfection. But I always resisted, as did many staff at Delphi, we who had witnessed the human toll of such perfection. Is it any wonder so many drift away from Scientology when “obnosis” tells us the actual result of “going OT” is the exact opposite of what was promised?
Infinitely, what you describe is the result of the tech being altered by low-toned staff, and used for totalitarian control rather than freeing people to be their own self-determined selves. Unaltered tech applied by high-toned staff would get much better results.
Exactly My 2 Cents. My thoughts entirely. Well said, Flag Land Base and most Orgs now have become a viper’s nest of criminals blocking people from moving on the Bridge with various ruses and scams. And out-tech.
Thank you for these details, there are scarce few personal accounts from staff at Scientology schools. It’s one the last dark corners of the Scientology franchise networks that is long overdue for some sunshine.
I was also on staff at the Delphian School, but 10 yrs earlier than you. What you observed was true even then. So-called executives swallowing the OT BS and staff having to put up with daily insanity. Watching the money being used to support the sacred few was awful. I left after five years and found a wonderful life. Thanks for your post.
Fascinating article!
I bet that the whole concept of entities/BT’s (mentioned even in DMSMH) is a reflection of Hubbard’s schizophrenia. He probably had voices he heard that “emanated” from parts of his body. There is some current brain research that supports the idea of more than one personality being generated inside the skull – it’s a fuzzy area of course, but most people do have internal dialogues. Hubbard’s dialogues may have been far more extensive than anyone knows.
In a lecture, LRH talks in more detail about the transport of Thetans to Teegeeak (frozen with alcohol and glycol).
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/htruebt.htm
So Nomnom, anyone who disagrees with mainstream, conventional thinking is schizophrenic? Were the mainstream voters in ancient Athens justified in executing Socrates for “leading young men’s thinking astray”?
You do know that the charges brought against Socrates were made by Anytus, who wanted Socrates’ eromenos Alcibiades for his own, don’t you? So the whole thing was really a gay lovers’ tiff, not some kind of stand regarding freethinking.
Socrates spurned Alcibiades’ advances, and was a political critic of Anytus, one of Athens’ leaders. He also was Anytus’ son’s teacher. It was not a gay lovers’ tiff.
Socrates resisted Alcibiades for one night, to prove that he could. Plato makes it clear that they had a physical relationship. It was also well-known that Anytus wanted Alcibiades for his own eromenos. Ignoring this to import a purely political dimension to Socrates’ death is disingenuous.
How did you read that into what I wrote?
Amazing….
Then say why you believe LRH was schizophrenic.
Believing that you’re smothered by invisible beings and that you can communicate with them and tell them to piss off is pretty much a classical symptom of schizophrenia.
That doesn’t mean that it might not also be true.
nomnom, it could have been many things. It is a fact that El Con was criminally insane. We know that at the end he was completely fruit loops so take your pick of its origin. All we know is that is was a fabrication.
The whole issue regarding body thetans is one big reason I’m very happy to say that I’m not a spiritual being. If existing as a spiritual being means being infested by alien space cooties, then I’d rather say that life is just a series of chemical processes, no woo-woo involved at all.
tl;dr: OTIII makes you atheist.
I am the High Leader of Chemical Processes! I find your lack of faith disturbing. I’m sending a special squad of BTs to get your mind right. Espi, this is for your own good…
LOL
I got tired of auditing BTs. They were always making fun of me. So one day I just laid down the law. I told them, I won’t fuck with you guys, and you don’t fuck with me! From that point on, all of us party hardy now. Oh, sure, some of my BTs are still assholes, but, for the most part we get along swimmingly….
Sounds like you arrived at a position of cause over what you were auditing. Well done!
Should we tell My 2 Cents about Poe’s Law? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)
Well, it’s true that I didn’t know whether he was being sarcastic or telling the truth. But I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Fair enough.
There is a huge chasm between the harmless, even potentially beneficial Grade 0 question, “If you could talk to a (fill in the blank), what would you say?” and the exorcism of other entities on OT 3 and higher. OT’s believe that their failings, sins, shortcomings, even their crimes, are not THEIRS, but THEIR BT’s.
It’s the ultimate escape clause; the granting of absolution, because if you accept the notion that YOU didn’t do it…it was the BT’s that ate your homework, you’ve laid down a fundamental premise that justifies madness.
Thus OT 8, Rex Fowler didn’t murder Thomas Ciancio- he had unhandled BT’s. And OT6, Bob Borowsky didn’t blow his brains out; he had an unhanded OT 3 case.
This is further proof of Voltaire’s aphorism, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Hey, Len! Damnit! It really was my BTs who ate my homework! What was I supposed to do?
Len, prior to 1965 LRH said over and over that responsibility is the key to making OTs. That led him to researching GPMs. But after a few years he found GPM handling to be too difficult, at least at that time, so he switched to targeting BTs. I’ve always thought that had he lived long enough, without the distractions of being on the run (whether he deserved that or not), he would have eventually revisited GPMs and developed workable tech for handling them.
A few years ago, post-LRH R&D by certain auditors in the independent field resulted, they claim, in tech for safely handling GPMs that makes auditing BTs unnecessary. It does address the pc’s own responsibility, leaving BTs with nothing to stick to.
I don’t know yet how well this tech works, but I think such R&D should continue.
Interestingly enough, I wondered too, but I was a NOTs Auditor (Class IX). So I’m watching “cause and effect” and ready proof BTs exist… “Locate a BT or Cluster that caused you to go bat-shit crazy and join the SO? LFBD
You see, there had to be something to cause that read. BTs exist, you see? Then, since English is the language I spoke in this life, seems all of my billions of BTs are instantly indoctrinated to hear and speak English. Danes have Danish BTs. Russians have Russian BTs and so forth.
As an aside, besides wondering about language, how are these BTs so aware to be fluent in telepathy?
Like Mike says, suspend disbelief to make it work.
I spent tens of thousands of hours working with PreOTs auditing out their BTs and Clusters and the end phenomenas a.k.a. surprise ending of program were no less remarkable than a miracle.
How come the huge big wins with floating TAs which never existed before this level. (I never ever saw a floating TA).
My answer to this is, thought precipitates reality. Everything starts as a thought. It stands to reason one can change their life if they change their mind. No matter what the therapy, psychiatry, Scientology Auditing, whatever, one is just dealing with the patient/client/PC’s thoughts, maybe memories, imagination.
If there really was something that happened in the auditing I think I was addressing thought and imagination has no limit and that makes Mike’s math just about right, aye?
Yes Rob, the subject of the EMeter is a fascinating corollary to this whole discussion.
It is the EMeter that “proves” this is all true. Many who have been incredulous at the concept of BT’s have been “handled” with “you don’t have to believe it is true, does the meter read?” – and that is enough.
Scientologists, by this level of the bridge, have been convinced the EMeter is infallible. And thus, even if it seems crazy to them, they accept it as “fact” that this is real. The meter reads and so it proves it.
Sometime I am going to spend the time to really research this subject. I was fascinated by the movie “I Am” and the section in there on yogurt (a live organism) reacting to emotion in its vicinity. I am sure there are plenty of other theories and studies on the subject.
I too audited on OT VII and audited others on NOTs. In the end, I decided I was creating the reads, and was “mocking up” the BTs. No different than the realization about the Reactive Mind and clearing. I could not reconcile all the questions about the theory of BT’s. But I do know my thoughts CAN influence the needle on an emeter. That I knew for sure. I had seen it many times. I also know you can “think around” an emeter and cause it to read how YOU want it to read, even if you are being sec checked.
This is too big of a subject to cover in a comment, but you stimulated a thought (and it is always good to hear from you).
Very intersting.
This would help bring a lot of clarity who did ot 5 and 7.Frankly ot 3 was trash got nothing but beginning of ot 5 was impressive in my experience.Being on ot for years was pure punishment.no gains,no changes just getting more miserable and fat from lack of exercise.
Analogous to brain function and meter reads regarding connection, conductance, resistance and sine waves (F/N) is this:
http://www.supercamp.com/what-does-neurons-that-fire-together-wire-together-mean/
Hi Mike! Well, how very interesting. My wife had that same cognition in her last solo session – she cogged she was mocking them up to run, had a multiple dial blow down, a floating ta. She scanned her body – saw nothing. and ended session, never to pick up the solo cans again.
Shortly after that, she read something Ron wrote that she realized was a lie, and thought “if he lied about that, what else did he lie about?”
That was the end of her being a Scientologist.
Me, I took a lot longer, having believed in it much more thoroughly. I had to read stuff by Jeff Hawkins and others plus a lot of posting and reading posts on ESMB for a year or so before I finally accepted I had been had.
Mimsey
Sorry Mimsey but you do not complete NOTs by “scanning over your body and finding nothing”. There is a whole rigmarole involved in making sure that one has completed (and quite rightly so).
Of course Mike. When one thinks, it causes electrical impulses in the brain and nerves. A Wheatstone bridge would react. It is REALLY basic electronics. There is nothing mysterious about it. No “bank” or BTs required. Just thought.
Bank is old thoughts still being thought. And BTs think. That’s the whole point.
Interesting about “meter reads” being all the proof a true believer needs.
Make sense, especially in the light of the proscription of all communication about the actual technical details and the individual’s “case.”
But, not everyone believes that. Lots of ex-members have talked about fooling the meter. And gang-bang sec-checks must be there for a reason…
Morning, Mike (best to your “Ideal Family” 🙂 )
I just read yours about the emeter. To make money after I got out, I became an Electrician and had to study things like, Ohms law and the roll resistance plays in electricity. I also learned about a wheat stone bridge.
I think BTs and Clusters are figments of imagination. That’s the long and short of it. Seems much of what happens “In Session” depends a lot on the PCs or PreOT’s imagination and what he or she is thinking at the time. I think that’s what reads and “runs out” — thoughts, thunk by the PC.
I know you know “The E-Meter doesn’t lie”. That’s something that gets implanted through inculcation. I don’t want to go as far as calling that a bit of Dharma. Howabout it’s a bit of bull shit 🙂
Hey Rob – we are on the same page…
Afraid I am not on the same page. You had a misunderstanding on how to audit BTs (by language you said rather than concept) so I wonder quite frankly what else you misunderstood in your Class IX training under old Harvey at Flag? Sorry to be blunt but then you are being rather blunt in your comments about something which I know not to be true.
Hello Rob,
Are you the Rob Williamson who was the Room Captain for room 217 at the Heart of Clearwater in the early 80s? If so, hello.
Given that auditing is to help the pc with his thoughts, we WANT the meter to read on his thoughts and nothing else. Whether BTs are real or symbolic doesn’t matter. There is something there in the pc’s thoughts that reads. Providing he’s not tying to fool the meter, that’s enough.
Hmm, that’s an interesting position.
You seem to be saying that it doesnt matter if they are real or not, just that you get thoughts that read? But this is not presented as “thought provoking” material, it is presented as absolute fact, so deadly serious and severely real that it almost killed LRH trying to unravel it and it might kill anyone else who is exposed to it without being prepared.
So you insist that someone read this as being imparted truth and convince them it is true, and they think about it and it reads and that is all that counts?
I wonder if on this same basis you could show someone Nightmare on Elm Street, tell them it was a documentary (and actually convince them of that) and then audit them on what they “think” about it? Is this what you are trying say?
Mike, re BTs or anything else, what’s important is always the pc’s agreement to be effect rather than cause. That’s what I meant by “thoughts.” I didn’t mean the pc’s opinions.
And in running anything I don’t care what the truth turns out to be — what LRH said it is or something else. If the meter reads, I’ll run what it reads on, and thereby find the truth for myself.
Hey, Rob. I don’t really remember and specifics of Oatie3, but I do recall in a really early session on the level that I had one of those humongous realizations, the type that alter your reality, “Holy shit! I’m running Ron’s case!!!” LLLBD, then a dial wide F/N which continued on as I watched. It just wouldn’t quit. I also can’t recall what I told either the examiner or the success officer. In any case, they couldn’t argue with that dial wide F/N which just wouldn’t quit. I continued on to Oatie7 very smoothly and quickly. I felt wonderful. So am I OatieAnything? Who the hell knows? Or cares? I’m a happy camper, having quietly left almost 40 years ago. No one seems to have noticed I’m not there any longer. I do still get mail from differing areas of scio, all of which get dropped in the recycle bin on my way back from the mailbox. Certainly not worth bothering with and somehow getting their attention again.
I believe that most of those still in will die still in. And the organization itself will slowly die in a long and drawn out fashion. Perhaps there’ll be another “Snow White” discovered which will help the process along with more going to jail. They’re certainly stupid enough for that. 🙂
Relating to BTs (body thetans, the surplus soul gnats who’d been humanoids on other planets before the Xenu caused Wall of Fire/4th Dynamic Engram and Xenu’s implanting of them all with the R6 implants) the only really clear-cut prior Hubbard fiction writing from the early 1940s, the book “Fear” has demons in the hero’s belfry. (And prior to “Fear” Hubbard wrote “One Was Stubborn” which has the cult leader George Smiley successfully teach earthlings to “as-is” the physical universe around everyone, except the Stubborn hero, but no BTs in “One Was Stubborn” but the successful cult that erases everything and lets everyone be their own “new” God to start their own universes if they choose.)
So “demons” have likely been on Hubbard’s own “case” until he like on that taped MSH auditing session where she’s guiding him around some preliminary entities on his body in their 1952-sh auditing session where LRH is case supervising his own case live while MSH audits him and he encounters a couple of body entities.
Hubbard’s case folders I wish would be released someday.
And people who’ve case supervised LRH and have read all his Solo folders and his own thoughts about his own “case” would be all relevant, seriously. to analyzing from square zero, at least what the old horse thought of himself.
I do hope Ray Mitoff, who I think has read all of Hubbard’s case folders from a technical understanding, at least in Hubbard’s theoretical framework, even though it’s all bunk to me now.
I do think that getting the bunk straight from the horse’s mouth, or from Ray’s mouth, if Ray gets out, would be “new” solid historical info.
Excellent article, thankyou so much Terra Cognita.
Look at the cost of this bt racket.My figures are a bid old.from beginning to be revealed the Xenu story,till the end ot7.all cooties gone,no really this time is including 6 month security checks assuming 3,5 years on the level a good $150,00-200.000.But that was for the old ones.In 1996 all the old ones had to do it again.at .And about 40% of them did for another 4 to 5 years and $200,000-300,000.
OT3 should be called the wall of greed.
And the result? Most business people see their income go down and their weight go up from all these hours of sitting and chasing BT’s-
I only met a few OT’s but most were extremely obese.
I’ve noticed that too, Doug. Doubtful that they get any excerise.
Come to think of it, many of the clears I met were overweight, not as fat as the few OT’s I met but they would really look stupid on a surfboard.
Shhhhhhhhh……..don’t want to spook my surfboards.
I was too.Now weigh the same as 18 and more muscled.Much more energy too.
It’s your BTs that’s giving you energy. Your BTs love you…
Flunk!
Wall of Greed! I like it!
If the church ACTUALLY believed that handling BTs was the salvation of mankind (e.g. 4th dynamic engram), AND if they had a humanitarian bone in their collective meat body – they would be make OTIII-VII FREE. Instead, they make it incredibly difficult for members to get on these levels (e.g. eligibility, sec checks, ethics, 6 month refreshers), as well as making them the most expensive services offered by the church.
Now, why would that be?
Papa needs a new pair of John Lobb shoes?
Price for Judge’s going up?
Price for drowning judges pets going up?
Harvey: By George, I think you’ve got it!!!! LOL
Service fees have gone up for offshore bank accounts?
Statpush, I feel the same way about study tech…
When getting your NEXT body, would it also come with ITS own BTs or do BTs travel with thetans from lifetime to lifetime and thus an OT7 can start his next life “clean”? Anyone out here know?
I asked this very question to my sup. The reference is History of Man, section on Departure. When the thetan drops the body he leaves with all his pictures and entities. So, based on that, next LT the being should not have those pesky critters.
Fascinating. I had not heard that before. Was there any attempt to reconcile HOM with OT III? They are pretty contradictory, but it is just like a Sup to refer you to a sentence of one reference as if the rest of it doesn’t exist.
“1. The Supervisor must never neglect an opportunity to direct a student to the actual source of Scientology data.”
“7. The Supervisor will be able to correlate any part of Scientology to any other part and to livingness over the eight dynamics.
“8. The Supervisor should be able to answer any questions concerning Scientology by directing the student to the actual source of the data. If a Supervisor cannot answer a particular question, he should always say so, and the Supervisor should always find the answer to the question from the source and tell the student where the answer is to be found.”
If you take the Supervisor’s Code seriously, a course sup has to be able to “find the answer to the question from the source and tell the student where the answer is to be found.”
Some course sups took that seriously, I did.
Have any newly-bodied, cleared BTs walked into any of the orgs? What would their Bridge address? What if you were one of DM’s BTs? LRH’s? Would you have to sign an NDA? Questions, questions…
No real attempts to reconcile the two. More like, “you got your answer, now move on”
statpush: “When the thetan drops the body he leaves with all his pictures and entities. So, based on that, next LT the being should not have those pesky critters.”
No, if he “leaves WITH” all his entities, he should still have them the next LT. Similar grammar to “The man left with his wife.”
Make that example: “The man came with his wife and left with his wife.”
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, Joe has 1000 BTs. Joe does OTIII and removes 400 of them. Joe dies, taking WITH him 600 BTs. Joe picks up a new body. Joe still has 600 BTs.
At least that’s the way I understood it. The “stickiness” of the BT is to the Thetan. The Thetan inhabits/permeates the MEST body. His BTs are right there with him.
Part of the III procedure, if memory serves, is to look for BTs on or in the body, as well as the space around the body. BTs can also be attached to the thetan (which technically makes you a cluster ).
Statpush, sorry but I didn’t quite follow your point.
I meant in the reply just above. Can you say more?
Sorry, I really don’t know how else to put it.
I had the same questions Joe, but was reassured that all my questions would be answered on the next level. So nothing to worry about.
+1. I too would love to know the theoretical answer to this question.
Additionally I would like to know why an able Scietologist has to spend years doing time consuming actions to go clear but a degraded litle BT goes clear after running two incidents? Also I heard or imagined that the entire mest universe is, and our reactive minds are composed of bt’s. Anyone have any data on this?
David St. Lawrence has been doing further research on body thetans. In one of the many articles on his websites, he says the following:
———————————————-
“The spiritual beings accompanying you through life come from many different sources. Some joined with you at birth, others in past lives and you probably picked up others at the last hospital you visited. You also may have dead relatives tagging along to watch over you or to haunt you depending on your relationship with them.
“Of course, if you believe Hubbard’s myth about body thetans, you will never be able to talk to your departed loved ones because how can Grandma be a body thetan? Eeeuw!
“Just pull on your adult britches and face the fact that all of us spiritual beings are in the same boat. We are all immortal and we generally run a body until it dies and then get a new one. Occasionally we decide not to pick up a body and spend time as a spirit observing other people running their bodies. Some of us get really banged up because of mistakes we made and we assume a catatonic state where we are only aroused when someone does something to wake us up. These were the beings Hubbard called body thetans and he seemed to assume that these were all he needed to identify.
“Fortunately, there are many spiritual beings who are much more lively and many of them are trying to help us on an everyday basis. You can learn about them and how to work with them by reading my books or visiting my various websites.
“If you read my first book, “Introducing Spiritual Rescue Technology” and are sufficiently curious to see who is accompanying you through life, I will be happy to give you a free introductory SRT session so you can see for yourself what all the excitement is about.
“After that, you can decide to contact any spiritual being you wish, including any departed relatives you still have attention on. The possibilities are infinite, as you will soon discover.”
http://workabletechnology.com/
————————————————–
And btw, if you google “spiritual entities” (without the quotes) you will get “About 2,760,000 results (0.47 seconds).”
p.s. David St. Lawrence was a NOTs auditor when he was still in the church.
So Marildi, do you know how if ““After that, you can decide to contact any spiritual being you wish, including any departed relatives you still have attention on. The possibilities are infinite, as you will soon discover.” – and my departed father moved on to another body and a new life, how I would contact him in his new body? I know you didn’t write this, Mr. St. Lawrence did, but can you explain this?
Tara, I don’t know what David St. Lawrence would say exactly, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter that your father has another body now. That was a recent post of his, so you can ask him on the comment thread: http://workabletechnology.com/?p=1202 You could also get an intro session from him.
As for my own experience, when a relative of mine died a few years ago, I asked someone I used to be on staff with (who is OT V and has amazing OT abilities) to contact him. She did so and it was very gratifying to have the comm! Later on, I said to her that it was too bad we wouldn’t be able to be in comm with him after he got another body. She said, “You can always get in comm with him.” I understood that to mean that a part of him was always reachable (I think of this as the “higher self,” a term from other philosophies). Btw, this OT is a very “orthodox Scientologist” who is pro-tech all the way, so I doubt she would say something that conflicts with it.
Marildi, thanks for the link. I left a comment/question there. 🙂
I can answer the question or rather I know the data from whence it comes. I am afraid they will be there from lifetime to lifetime. There is no “clean slate” at each new birth. BTs have been with you for a very long time. It’s in the Audited NOTs series HCOBs.See also tape “Theta Body Entities” 1952. The only clean slate will be when you have finished your NOTs. And then you will start off each time with a clean slate. In fact you will be a “clean slate”. Pretty tough huh?
I guess when it all boils down, the biggest terror any “being or thetan” can have is to eventually realize they were wrong, completely wrong! The lucky ones are always right, no matter what… so it seems. It can be pretty much observed one person’s self professed/displayed sanity can be another’s delusion.
I don’t know of any theory or practice, religious or otherwise that gives complete relief from life’s uncertainties, except briefly here and there. Hubbard should have left the “entities” out of it imo. He even said so himself on many occasions though the 50/60s, in that you don’t need to audit them. But no, along came NOTs in particular and other similarly minded processes and the whole credibility line fell out of the subject. People went “splat” with that stuff (especially financially) and to be honest, it was intended. The organisation of Scientology is insane and continues to get worse all on its own, Hubbard or no Hubbard. He could no more control it than Miscavige can. It’s this huge, money, lawyer oriented Armageddon whirling around destroying all who get caught up believing their salvation is contained within it. Do you really think anyone who earns good money from “Scientology applied” actually believes or practices it? Even Michael Chan doesn’t, his “selectees” are just as deluded as he is, but he is the one who now has 10% of their money. There are no results displayable except flowery words and glazed eyes.
There are some interesting things you can do with the subject imo but to trust or expect the Cof$ to be honest with you??? Excuse the French, but, get the fuck out of here!
Had an interesting after thought on this. Even Hubbard said you eventually have to ‘run’ Scientology out. He wasn’t wrong!
Agree there are some useful parts and interesting theories.Some might even have some value.I studied all oec,all congresses,all bridge.If I look how much I still use of it today,well eh,eh,It has to be something somewhere.Yes here are some.com formula,data series.There are a couple of intersting insights in scientology but little major for this century.Letit die and give it an undignified burial and do our best to get the duped or suckers back into society and reunite families.So few useful thingsSo much insanity.
I audited BTs on and off from 1973 to 2005
You pull something into your self and then after some inspection “it” sometimes lets go, seemingly of its own accord, and then you feel better.
Is this imagination? Self hypnosis? Could be. Profitable? For sure.
Robert, I don’t recall an HCOB giving your technique above as the way to audit BTs. And yes I am being facetious but then so are you.
“It is all a dream—a grotesque and foolish dream. Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought—a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!” ~ Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger
In my opinion, Mark Twain is an underrated philosopher/sage.
Yes, Twain got it. LRH expressed it more accurately and scientifically, but Twain understood what a being is.
So…what’s it like being a being? Lots of beingness?
Been there, done that. It’s mostly hype.
It’s true confession time for me. I have to admit that I am way behind most of you ex-scientologists here who are posting about BTs and clusters. The fact is, after many many intensives of auditing, I was never even able to come up with even a single engram to run. Nothing. Talk about a NCG, degraded, suppressive, low confront, PTS, woggy, dog case, ethics bait, slimeball of a PC!!! I tried and tried for the longest time to move up the “Bridge to Total Freedom” to no avail. Let’s face it, even a fresh off the street, raw meat wog should be able to find and run an engram Book 1 style and achieve the miraculous results claimed therein. So what’s a thetan to do to get rid of these BTs and clusters when they can’t even run a good ‘ol first dynamic style engram? I’m going out on a limb here with my Indie friends and posit that even engrams are total bullshit. I’m not saying that moments of pain and unconsciousness don’t exist, they obviously do, but finding and ‘running out’ an engram is an exercise in imagination not science. If engrams exist and they can be ‘run out’, show me one Clear. Just one Clear. Or to paraphrase Jason Beghe, “show me one mother fucking Clear”.
You are correct B. BTs are simply a substitute imaginary thing for another imaginary thing (engrams).
In the end, after the Grades, it appears the remaining Bridge is Creative Processing.
Congratulations ! You’re cured!
Actually, B. Haven was cured before she began!!!
Hey! I want to be cured too!
Have you ever tried running ‘engrams’ on another to see if they can be the effect of you auditing them? The so called training route. I’m not suggesting there is anything workable in this subject for you or anyone else, nor am I suggesting there is anything wrong with you.
But according to Dianetics & Scn processing there are 4 flows. Sometimes flows can get stuck, especially those who continually demand, “prove it to me!” imo this not exclusive to Scientology either. There are a lot of subjects out there rejected as unworkable or bs by armchair critics.
Even with that said, a Scientology Org is the last place in the world you would ever go for auditing if you value your sanity.
Thanks for your comments I Yawnalot. I trained to Class IV but didn’t do the internship so I can’t claim much experience as an auditor. I also attempted to run Book One processes on various people. These were totally green people who knew nothing of the subject and so ‘didn’t know what they were supposed to do or what results they were supposed to experience”. I was never able to get someone to find and erase an engram let alone a basic engram on a chain.
I was most definitely not someone who was a “prove it to me” type. I was positive that this stuff worked 100% of the time but I was always dismayed when it didn’t work on me. I always blamed myself and thought that something was wrong with me. This was so much the case that just before I blew for good I was considering giving dianetics another chance. This is embarrassing to look back on, but I remember having a couple thousand that the reg hadn’t gotten ahold of and weighed the option of getting some some NED auditing as opposed to some RK surgery on my eyes to correct my nearsighted vision. I seriously wondered if the surgery would mess up my auditing since I fully expected my eyesight to be “cured”. This, even though there were plenty of “Clears” and “OTs” all around me wearing glasses.
Having said that, I would be the last one to say that auditing can’t make someone feel better or improve their lives. At the same time I would also say a placebo can and does do the same thing for some people. I would still say the same thing, somebody show me just one Clear. A ‘real’ clear, a placebo clear or even a Sears clear (borrowing a phrase from Frank Zappa).
PS I opted for the eye surgery and also blew for good. I can honestly say I have never been happier.
Happy is good.
It strikes me as very odd that Hubbard actually believed the stuff he wrote about Dianetics in the 50s but never corrected it later on. Even with the mountain of evidence and further research he had to do within a decade or two. It was nutty beyond belief that with his claims of being a super fast OT author etc he never corrected the obvious exaggerated and now provably false claims of Dianetics. That’s even with the benefit of the doubt allowing for further discoveries. It takes an extraordinary person to admit error of such magnitude, let alone correct it. Hubbard certainly let the team down on that play and many others.
I feel for you with the way you tried to make it happen. I was a sup for ages and an auditor. I audited a lot of raw public, tough way to make little or no money and in retrospect with the mountain of tech available, there was very limited tools one could use. Ridge on the Bridge I think they called it. eg You read Dianetics, go into an Org and nobody has any idea how run the processes described in the book. Bare boned essentials in other words was all that has ever been available, mega reviews replaced any actual Bridge progress. And under Miscavige it has been reduced even more to sec checks and processes of a very low order. NOTs is just a fantasy designed to make money and introvert. So much for the majesty of the greatest tech of life hey???!!!
Probably a piece will be written about Method One Word Clearing soon too. What a load of crock made about the claims of that EP.
In many ways the “STANDARDIZATION” of Scientology is what killed it! Too easy for a moron to wield a big stick with zero understanding of it or anything else meaningful to life for that matter. Command intention is nothing more than command suppression.
Don’t despair about Dianetics – for all its hype very few people have any idea how to run it. And even at that, standardizing the results expected is suppressive in many ways.
Good luck to you.
Ms. B. Haven, in 1950 some people got good results with DMSMH and some didn’t. Throughout the 50’s LRH developed tech to undercut engram running. Today one does Life Repair, Objectives, and Expanded Grades before being asked for engrams, and then the tech used is New Era Dianetics (late 70’s) rather than 1950 DMSMH. This works. If you take it step by step, you’ll find engrams and run them just fine.
A couple of thoughts on the subject…
The press, including Lawrence Wright, refer to the OTIII story as Scn’s Creation Myth. In all my 30 years in Scn, I never had this viewpoint, even having done OTIII. The initiation into the MEST universe or Separation from Main Body of Theta was closer to a Creation Myth.
An early lecture (Role of Earth?) LRH explains that thetans have only been on Earth over the last 20,000 years. Not sure how that squares with OTIII.
Regarding “released” BTs, LRH states that they are essentially Clear! This always pissed me off. Apparently I am the sentient, spiritual being who is running the show, and yet I have had to pay thousands of dollars and many, many intensives to reach the State of Clear. It would have been much easier (and cheaper) if I were a BT.
It’s unlikely we will ever know the real reasons LRH went with the BT theory to spiritual salvation. Given his “research” track record, it’s quite possible he stumbled upon something in his own case and naturally assumed it was a universal truth and applied to all men. All that was missing was to flesh out the “story”, but then again, he was pretty good at that.
Regarding OTIII answering all your questions about the nature of man – yeah, right. I found it woefully inadequate and piecemeal. More questions than answers. Trying to make logical sense of the OTIII technology is challenging. Considering this is THE reason mankind is fucked up, you’d think he’d fill in the blanks and provide some details. Nope. It’s more like he scribbled it down on a diner napkin.
Here’s one for you – I have had a number of people tell me that “Handling OTIII is the reason I got into Scn”. WTF?? Never understood this. Are they saying they’ve always been aware of having a Split Personality Disorder? Man, that’s freaking crazy.
And another one – while soloing I put my attention on my time track at 75 million years ago – NOTHING, not even a tick. Hmm. I also asked my course sup, “When do I run out the OTIII incident?” No answer. Apparently the most damaging fucked up incident on your track goes unhandled. Nice.
Oh, one last thing…the apparent danger is “freewheeling”, which leads to loss of sleep and a slow descent into insanity.
Please note, my comments above do not imply I actually believe any of this 🙂
” Given his “research” track record, it’s quite possible he stumbled upon something in his own case and naturally assumed it was a universal truth and applied to all men.”
I agree. While Elron was indeed a complete con man out for your money, he was also an individual with some very serious psychiatric disorders that he did his best to resolve through his very complexly elaborated space opera cosmology. For him not to see himself as crazy, the rest of us necessarily had to share his madness. In the end, it didn’t work for him, so it’s very unlikely to work for you either.
If a thousand hours or more of solo auditing spent in imaginatively creating non-existent sub-human entities that are stuck all over you, then telepathically exorcising them, only made you a whole lot poorer, then that would be one thing. However, there’s very good reason to believe that doing so can also induce or exacerbate serious mental illness and, in some cases, actually result in psychosis and suicide. It’s not just a con, it’s a serious mental health hazard as well.
statpush says:
“Regarding “released” BTs, LRH states that they are essentially Clear! This always pissed me off. Apparently I am the sentient, spiritual being who is running the show, and yet I have had to pay thousands of dollars and many, many intensives to reach the State of Clear. It would have been much easier (and cheaper) if I were a BT.”
Another aspect of this theory that you can get pissed off about . . . or more confused about: Since they fly off all by their lonesomes, that is, having no attachments of their own with them, just leave as singular free individuals, then they themselves would not have to do OT 3-7 someday. Am I understanding this correctly? They are clear and have no attachments of their own to run. They leave that way.
That would be a second “free ride” that they all get and you don’t.
They avoid the credit card bills, the six-month checks, the endless regging, and on and on.
Caveat . . . if this is all so and is as written. Questionable . . . .
FL, as you have demonstrated, the whole concept of OTIII does not hold up to scrutiny. You really don’t have to dig too deep for it to be problematic.
AND ….. the answer IS!
Replace the word SPAM with SCAM in this video. https://youtu.be/anwy2MPT5RE?t=2m32s
And if you doubt that BT’s exist or the story about the DC-8s transporting trillions of BT-s to Hawaii, it is only proof that you have misunderstood words that you need to get cleared.
I came to earth on one of the DC8s 75 million years ago. Been trying to leave ever since…
I was one of residents at the time and have been trying to throw you guys out ever since. You never had a visa, not even an entry permit. Geezers… damn squatters! I feel like wearing a sandwich board, “GO HOME THETANS. BE GONE!”
I got through your customs with a Groucho Marx outfit.
🙂
OSD, Name this tune:
…………………………………………………………….
“You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave!”
🙂
(Hotel California) God! I must be ancient to dredge that up.
Yes, yes you are ancient.
I knew there was something wrong when I read LRH’s novelization of Oat Tea 3, which is drivel, even for him. I immediately realized that LRH wasn’t there, and didn’t get the whole incident. However, it WAS a real incident for me, reading well on the E-meter. Trouble starts when someone does not have that incident in their bank, and are sent to Ethics and told “Find it or else!”.
There were trillions of people who were members of a religious Cult who were implanted BY THEIR OWN GROUP (implanting was illegal at the time) who rioted and murdered at the order of the Cult. Cult members were tested to find out what kind of job they were best suited for, and implanted to do that job, and give 12% (12 of 120, not 100) of their income to the Cult, and to be happy doing that job. The implant I got was to be a Train Conductor. To this day, I hate trains.
After about 300 years, the Cult had more money than any other entity in the Confederacy. This came just after the Confederacy won a terrible war against invading warlike aliens. Xenu, an ELECTED leader, became a space admiral and, with atrocities (nuking civilians, a first for that area of the galaxy) on both sides, won the war. After the war, Xenu asked for a TEMPORARY (12 years) income tax to pay for reconstruction. The Cult refused, and ordered its members to riot and murder to avoid paying the tax. Think of Muslims and Sharia law.
Using his emergency powers, still in place after the war, Xenu ordered Cult members rounded up, then quick-frozen by being submerged in tanks of liquid nitrogen. If a body is frozen slowly, the Thetan leaves as the body dies, but is trapped in the body if frozen quickly. While a Thetan is not a physical entity, it’s MEMORIES are, and will be trapped by freezing. Special machines imaged the frozen bodies, finding the part the Thetan was in, and cutting away all the rest. The remaining part, about the size of a cantaloupe, was loaded aboard a spaceship, and sent to Earth and dumped. Any bowl-shaped area was suitable for dumping, not just volcanoes. Electronic screens were set up around the bowls, and after the H-bombs were detonated, the screens trapped the Thetans in the bowl, swirling them together in the nuclear fire, so their memories would be combined and lost, so they couldn’t remember who they were or where they were from, and thus couldn’t return to the Confederacy. And screw it up.
There were only about 3 million beings on Earth at the time, and the first they knew something (bad) was happening was when a large asteroid hit their power plant. They weren’t warned or consulted at all.
And that, my friends, is why religions are tax-exempt here on Earth. And why we have crazies trying to impose Sharia law, or worse, $cientology Ethics. Don’t believe me? GOOD. Skepticism is healthy. And I don’t care if you believe me or not. Get out your meters, and start asking some pointy questions. You’ll find out, or not.
THERE!! I’m a science fiction writer, and better than LRH too. And you don’t have to pay me a dime.
WAAANNH!
Huh?
Huh….huh?
Huh… huh… huh?
Uh huh!!!
Your story is some much more detailed and with a much better plot than Elron’s! Can I give you all my money instead and then you can tell me who I can and can not pal around with? Since parting ways with the Hubbardians I’ve been at such loose ends and seriously need someone to tell me what to think and
do 😉
You sir, sound like the answer to all my many questions!
Hiya Harp, I don’t want any of your money, I have enough to be comfortable. You can associate with anyone you like, and some you don’t like. Although I recommend that you do not associate with a certain Dastardly Miscreant. I won’t tell you what to to do or think. I SUGGEST that you do not run someone else’s case, only your own, if you choose to audit. And don’t impose your case on others, as Elwrong did.
I mentioned that there were atrocities on both sides. They consisted of nuking civilian populations at first, then Planet-Buster bombs (the size of a 18-wheel trailer) that were dropped into the deepest parts of oceans, transferring all of the blast energy to the planet, essentially destroying it. This was considered a terrible overt at the time, since there are so few planets (and moons) with temperatures near the liquid point of water.
The aliens would do some atrocity, (expecting surrender, HA!) and Xenu would do it back, only slightly worse. Many of his admirals quit the space navy for ethical reasons, and were not punished in any way by Xenu. Xenu’s victory over the warlike aliens was a complete surprise to the rest of the galaxy, since the Confederacy was a peaceful democracy.
Xenu was the elected leader of the Confederacy for more than 30 thousand years. Until he became the Space Admiral, which lasted about 5 years. It is speculated that he governed by seeing future paths, and choosing the best one. He may have done the same thing in defeating the aliens.
The only things Elwrong got right in “Revolt in the Stars” were: Xenu had a limp. Xenu had black eyes (unusual at the time). And Xenu did not have a 2D, possibly because he was stabbed by a 2D with a sword (or large knife) before he was Xenu. ALL the rest is drivel.
THIS IS TRUE. Actually, I should say, this is true for me. Not necessarily for you, and many others.
And you still don’t owe me a dime. But a Pizza might be nice…….
GNOOURFF!
TC’s essay sparked commentary from several individuals who believe in BT’s and found the telepathic exorcism procedures of Scn’s upper levels to have been useful and effective for them. I’m not here to invalidate anyone’s subjective sense of betterment, achieved through whatever means they feel are useful to them. However, Scn doesn’t just make claims for the abilities gained on these upper levels as being wholly subjective ones, but makes some very specific claims regarding such supernatural powers as telekinesis, which are empirically verifiable.
The fact that not one individual who’s purportedly gained these super powers has ever been able to objectively demonstrate them seems to me, at this late date, a very clear indicator that, whatever their subjective value may be, the truly astounding claims for these advanced states of spiritual advancement just don’t have any basis in fact. However, I’m always open to evaluating sincere claims without prior prejudice, so I invite anyone who genuinely feels that they have achieved the promised abilities of Clear or OT7 to step forward and demonstrate them. To do so in a clear and convincing way would boom Scn as never before and catalyze a profound paradigm shift in physics.
Chewkacca,
Thank you for that story. Saves me from having to create it. I’ll get right on that. 😉
Absolutely love this. Thank you!
Great article Terra! OT III and BTs are a load of BS.
We know that per Sarge, LRH was still fighting these nasty little bugs when dying in his Motor Home telling Sarge to handle one down at the gate to the property or something. The con, conned himself apparently. I wonder if Sarge tried to use a can of Raid to get rid of it.
Further, a very reliable source told me the story of reading a letter from MSH to LRH where she asked him if BTs could jump onto her in a crowded area, like in a movie theatre. At the time the young lady who read this letter didn’t know what a BT was as she hadn’t reached the magical Wall of Fire yet. So, Mary Sue was just as brainwashed as the other OTs out there and I would guess LRH and MSH would discuss these buggers as I would discuss a swarm of mosquitoes with my wife. I don’t know what his answer was to MSH as only letters TO LRH were read. I do know that this unanswered question has scarred me – I now only go to drive-ins.
Thank you so much Terra. Thank you for bringing up this sacred cow. The more light brought to this subject, the better for all.
Ron was trying to free us from body consciousness to become OT.
But running Ron’s BT theory just cements a persons attention on the body for years.
My X wife, Likki from the Incredible Stringband went psychotic on OT3 expanded.
She ran this stuff 8 hrs a day at Saint Hill. She got an award for being the most productive solo auditor.
Likki became a homeless person and no one has heard from her since the early 80s.
Yes, what you say is no joke. My wife got onto OT5, went absolutely manic and shortly after had a psychotic episode right inside Joburg Org. After 13 years of hell as a staff member trying to handle her ‘out-ethics’ she has now been finally diagnosed bipolar and medicated up to the yin-yang. But at least functioning in life, which is more than she did on staff after ‘OT’ levels. I myself spent several years on solo NOTs trying to handle nothing but her condition, to no avail. The absence of wins was spectacular! I blew. Another ‘OT’ I know who won the same award (highest producing auditor) at Anzo subsequently died of Aids after screwing every woman in Joburg. The ‘wins’ never stop.
Now that is sad.
Yikes, it is comments like this that run the blood cold…and make me angry at those that think there is anything worthwhile about scientology to *save*. Screw it, let it die…as we all know your wife was not the first, nor will she be the last, to be driven mad by this utter nonsense.
Brian, I’m very sorry to hear about Likki.
We’ve previously discussed your unreality on BTs. But it’s also possible to get too much reality on them.
LRH said, “Auditing is a game of freedom vs. havingness,” havingness being “the concept of being able to reach,” and “that which permits the experience of mass and pressure.” Auditing gets rid of mental mass, but as a result depletes havingness, which then needs to be restored. If this is not done, there is a tendency for pc’s to pull in or mock up more mental mass, as fast or faster than their auditing is removing it. As a result they can remain introverted.
Methods of restoring havingness and extroversion all involve live commnication with people and objects. Exercise, light physical labor, completing tasks, and doing extroverted things with family, friends, and co-workers all accomplish this. There are also special havingness processes that are very helpful when run alternately with mental mass reducing processes. It’s also crucial to keep pc’s clean of introverting bypassed charge that can accumulate due to auditing errors. Uncorrected auditing errors plus no remedying of depleted havingness is a formula for disaster.
This would be especially true on OT3, where the goal is “freedom from overwhelm.” The material and phenomena addressed on OT 3 can be overwhelming for some people if auditing basics are out. It needs to be taken up one piece at a time in session, with each piece completely and cleanly handled, while one remains extroverted outside of session.
Solo auditing 8 hours per day on OT 3 is way more than I’d want to do, regardless of any pressure from org staff trying to get their stats up.
Likki should never have been on this level. She was being audited as a celebrity and had all of the goodies. All of the CSing.
When she stopped making money they dumped her like a hot potato.
BTs are a dangerous imagination that distorts the true nature of the mind, life on earth, feelings and the body.
My Two Cents, I do not know how long you have been out of the church, but out here in Woglandia when the phrase, “Ron says” is used to explain the nature of things, it is equated with “Ron thinks for me.”
Defaulting to,”Ron says” frequently is evidence of Altitude Instruction being imprinted into the mind.
The truth is that Ron’s original grade chart, his claim of the bridge being complete all you have to do is get on the bridge, was a lie.
Nowhere in Scientology will you see stable exterior with full perception.
That is the king of cognitive dissonance. The goal of Scientology was total freedom, full perception out of the body.
Show me one product of that. Just one. Only one!
The man who dreamed this stuff up wanted body death.
Tell me. Where is body death on the tone scale?
The man who sold you BTs was in hiding most of his life
Tell me. Where is hiding on the tone scale?
The man who sold you BTs blamed everyone but himself for his difficulties.
Tell me. Where is blame on the tone scale?
The only way Independent Scientologists are going to be able to escape reasoned scrutiny from society is to go back into a bubble and demonize critics.
That is how the subject of BTs and space invaders will find safe haven:
By denial, hiding, blaming and believing.
Once reasoned scrutiny is allowed into the argument, belief systems are threatened. They will crumble with reason. Beyond a doubt.
Once belief systems are threatened, the scrutinizers are demonized.
That’s the only way to keep out the light of reason. There is something wrong with us. Some auditing level missed. Some overt not pulled. Some implant making us crazy. Some SP at work. Some hater of “freedom” hating. Some occlusion that only the right auditing can reveal: HOGWASH!!
My scrutiny is representative of the majority out here in Woglandia.
When the light of reason scrutinizes Ron and his fallacious scientism, the bridge, which was never a valid bridge to freedom, collapses under the weight of lies and ignorance.
The only way to keep the lie intact is to assault the people who criticize and build a bubble to keep out the “haters of freedom” “the SPs” “the enemies of “man’s best friend”
And in that regard, Ron’s black ops military worked for a while to destroy critics.
What has brought down this evil empire of “destroy utterly” is the Internet.
Thank God!! And Silicon Valley!
Those that are highly trained, in my view, are an object of pity.
That is and will be the consensus of those outside the bubble.
Get used to it. That’s the way it is.
Hi Brian. I met Likki back in NYO when I was on staff there in the late 60’s. I was getting my staff power setups in the HGC when she was getting power ( I think that was what she was getting ) and we had a nice chat. When I ran across Robin and Janet at AOLA, a year or so later, I introduced them to Greg Heet who I knew well – he was always inventing musical instruments – and he made the electric sitar ( I think that’s what it was called) that they used on the album U. He went on the manufacture the E bow
I am sorry to hear she had a bad reaction to OT 3. Another person I know had the same reaction – it took her quite a while to calm down. Me, I always thought – I am running the show here, and never considered they could affect me adversely.
Best, Mimsey
Hey Mimsey, yes, the Stringband were big at that time. Likki was a magical creature wish issues that OT BTs made worse.
TC your most important article yet.
If you figure 3;5years on ot 7 at 5 hours per week.(Superconservative)that is about 1000 hours of exorcism.
(not counting OT3 or OT5)
Reasonable is blowing a BT per minute.Not even counting clusters.Say 50 per hour on the low side.
So this makes not 1000 but 50.000 bts.
Xenu says:Order another 1.000.000 planes.
No its about 15,000 and that is for the level of Solo NOTs only. To audit 1 BT a minute is far-fetched and the solo auditor must be doing something weird, certainly not either of the 2 main processes of Solo NOTs. It’s not a race. The usual cycle is about 3-6 minutes on average. 10 an hour would be average with all other factors thrown in like rudiments, session admin etc. The average length of time on Solo NOTs is between 1000 and 2000 hours so let’s say 1500 hours x 10 BTs an hour = 15,000. Clusters mostly take the same amount of time to audit on Solo NOTs as BTs as it usually the same process unless Date/Located so that is neither here nor there.
I love you Terra.. lolol.. this is SO well written and SO funny.
My sentiments exactly!
Thanks Terra, an amusing look at the subject of BT’s, they really don’t make any sense do they.
One thing which scions have in common with devoted followers of other religions is absolute faith in the afterlife, I wonder if this could be why they cling to their beliefs despite all evidence to the contrary as at least they have an answer as to what happens when we kick the bucket, after all which is better when faced with your imminent demise – going with the belief that at least you might come back one day or the thought that this is the end of it?
I am just as crazy after reading this article than I was before I read it. My back scratcher removes my body thetans a lot better than auditing, (at least for a while) However it’s a heck of a lot cheaper than $cientology.
My BTs scratch my back for me…you just got to train them right.
My Clint Eastwood, Dirty Harry BTs keep me tough. I’m not so egotistical that I think I can use my Superman BTs. You probably have a few Surfer BTs working for you.
And therein lies the rub and part of the whole story of BTs, which you have just unwittingly mentioned.
You’ll be scratching for a long time then.