Scientology likes to tell the world that you can be a scientologist and also be a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or anything else. This is an “acceptable truth” (defined by Hubbard this way: Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don’t have to tell everything you know-that would jam the comm line too. Tell an acceptable truth. Agreement with one’s message is what PR is seeking to achieve. Thus the message must compare to the personal experience of the audience) intended to deceive the public until they become scientologists and can be properly indoctrinated to continue the lie “for PR purposes.”
Scientologists, Celebrities and PR spokespeople dish up this line routinely to make themselves sound benign and unthreatening. They talk about “respecting the religious beliefs of others” (as long as they are not former scientologists) and other pablum that sounds sort of “religious” as makes them seem more “acceptable.”
This is a recent tweet that was sent to me (I cannot see Erika’s tweets because I am blocked, even though I have never tried to tweet to her, friend her or even mention her):
This is a lie.
How do I know? Well, let’s go to “Source” and take a look at what L. Ron Hubbard says about this.
Arguably Hubbard’s single most important writing – the one that every scientology must study at the beginning of EVERY single course in scientology — is entitled “Keeping Scientology Working.” It is hammered into every scientologists’ mind that Hubbard’s words here are literally a matter of life and death for every man, woman and child on earth (and beyond). He explains at length that he, LRH, is the ONLY person in history to have found workable answers to life, that nobody else has contributed anything to his miraculous “technology” and he exhorts people to be 100% dedicated scientologists and not to veer from the carefully delineated path he has discovered in scientology. Here are a few quotes:
We have some time since passed the point of achieving uniformly workable technology.
I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a Century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long run value and none were major or basic; and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repented and eventually had to “eat crow”.
We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact—the group left to its own devices would not have evolved Scientology but with wild dramatization of the bank called “new ideas” would have wiped it out. Supporting this is the fact that Man has never before evolved workable mental technology and emphasizing it is the vicious technology he did evolve—psychiatry, psychology, surgery, shock treatment, whips, duress, punishment, etc, ad infinitum. So realize that we have climbed out of the mud by whatever good luck and good sense, and refuse to sink back into it again.
When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists.
The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.”
We’re not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn’t cute or something to do for lack of something better. The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology. This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance. Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past.
A week later, Hubbard wrote another policy letter that is the SECOND reference studied on EVERY course in scientology. He explained the concept of “squirreling” and further reinforced the idea of “Scientology or nothing.”
For some years we have had a word “squirrelling”. It means altering Scientology, off-beat practices. It is a bad thing.
Scientology is a workable system. In fifty thousand years of history on this planet alone, Man never evolved a workable system. It is doubtful if, in foreseeable history, he will ever evolve another. Man is caught in a huge and complex labyrinth. To get out of it requires that he follow the closely taped path of Scientology. Scientology will take him out of the labyrinth. But only if he follows the exact markings in the tunnels. It has taken me a third of a century in this lifetime to tape this route out. It has been proven that efforts by Man to find different routes came to nothing. It is also a clear fact that the route called Scientology does lead out of the labyrinth.
People have following the route mixed up with “the right to have their own ideas”. Anyone is certainly entitled to have opinions and ideas and cognitions—so long as these do not bar the route out for self and others. Scientology is a workable system. It white tapes the road out of the labyrinth. If there were no white tapes marking the right tunnels, Man would just go on wandering around and around the way he has for eons, darting off on wrong roads, going in circles, ending up in the sticky dark, alone. Scientology, exactly and correctly followed, takes the person up and out of the mess.
Scientology is the only workable system Man has. It has already taken people toward higher IQ, better lives and all that. No other system has. So realize that it has no competitor. Scientology is a workable system. It has the route taped. The search is done. Now the route only needs to be walked.
This indoctrination that scientology is the ONLY path to spiritual freedom continues to be reinforced as you progress in scientology. Aside from the fact that Hubbard is clearly asserting nobody else has ever found answers to help man — not Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Siddhartha Gautama or anyone else — you soon discover a scientology term used to describe things in the field of the mind, spirit and religion that are NOT scientology — “Other practices.”
In 1966 Hubbard made the following “crimes” in scientology:
Failure to personally apply Scientology
Disagreement with standard technology
Use of other practices instead of Scientology
Then this became the subject of sec checks to find out if you are engaged in “other practices” — this is a question included in a standard sec check:
Have you mixed the processes of Scientology with other practices?
Everyone in scientology is expected to subscribe to the “Auditor’s Code” which says:
I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve.
In scientology, this precludes other religious practices as well as yoga or meditation or other things that are generally considered benign in normal society but are seen with contempt in scientology. You get how severe this prohibition is — “other practices” even includes “medical means” unless this is the only resort for “physical illness.”
But all of this is just the precursor to the bombs that are dropped by Hubbard on the OT levels. This is where the REAL revelation about how other religions should be viewed is laid down as the law of scientology. The secret material of OT III leave no doubt.
This is a couple of pages of his handwritten notes about OT III:
You will note that it discusses “36 days of picture implants” (for those unfamiliar with scientology terms, he is saying that people were electronically “hypnotized” to think and react a certain way — to obey or to reject) and these picture implants contain “God, the Devil, Angels…”
A simple translation of this arcane language (remember this was only supposed to ever be seen by advanced scientologists) — Hubbard is saying the ideas of God, the Devil and Angels are concepts put in people’s minds by the forces of evil in order to control them.
He goes into more detail in a lecture he delivered in 1968. He is explaining further the content of these “picture implants”
Anyway, every man is then shown to have been crucified, so don’t think that it’s an accident that this crucifixion .. they found out that this applied. Somebody, somewhere on this planet, back about six hundred BC, found some piece of R6. And I don’t know how they found it either by watching mad men or something but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity.
The man on the cross. There was no Christ but the man on the cross is shown as every man so of course each person seeing a crucified man has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who say they are Christ. Now there are two reasons for that. One is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people. So a person can have been crucified. But in R6 he is shown as crucified.
Now, set aside whether this makes any sense or not — the clear statement is that Christianity derives from an implant and “there was no Christ.”
So, in the words of Hubbard on the secret OT level III, there is no such thing as God and no such thing as Christ and Christianity is a manifestation of an evil electronic mind control mechanism that was placed in everyone 75 million years ago.
The Scientology Cross
A lot of people have asked about why scientology has a cross. I have seen various discussions about it relating to the occult and Aleister Crowley etc etc.
Let me explain from the scientology/Hubbard perspective.
Again, it begins with an “acceptable truth” – “the cross has long been a symbol used by man and the scientology cross has 8 points to represent each of the dynamics.”
But that is not REALLY why scientology uses a cross. If it was intended to represent the 8 dynamics it would be an 8 pointed STAR with all arms equal. No dynamic is considered to be more important than the others, yet the “scientology cross” does NOT have them equal in length.
Hubbard placed an enormous amount of importance on the symbols contained in “the R6 bank” — this series of “implants” installed in everyone on earth 75 million years ago. Here he is talking about this subject, again in 1968:
The whole population of the planet responds like a clock to R6 symbols. They respond to nothing else. They do not respond to reason. They only respond to R6 symbols.
Now I could give you much of the symbolism and so on which goes along with this but you find it recorded. This, of course, man responds to an exploding volcano [shows a DMSMH book front cover, which is an exploding volcano]. He responds to that. He understands that.
Hubbard put the volcano on the cover of Dianetics subsequent to “discovering” OT III in 1967 and it has remained there ever since. It is not there because of “explosive power” of Dianetics, but because it is associated with the “R6 bank” and Hubbard believed people would “respond” to that.
So, too the cross. As he says, the picture implants include “every man is then shown to have been crucified” and of course the whole population of this planet “responds like a clock to R6 symbols.”
There is a LOT of use of this symbology by Hubbard. The covers of the books he designed, the colors he used, the dress of the figures was all based on his ideas about the “R6 bank” and how to control people.
The cross represents religion to people. Because everyone has been implanted with this idea (though it seems the implants didn’t work so well in Asia).
Fundamentalism
The truth is that scientology is fundamentalist.
Every good scientologist religiously follows the words of L. Ron Hubbard who dictated that scientology is the ONLY path. Everyone else on earth is lost and has no way out. ONLY scientologists have the answers and doing anything else is not just a waste of time, but a hindrance to saving yourself and the planet as a whole.
But scientologists do not have the strength of their convictions. They will not come right out and say what they REALLY believe for fear of rejection or being scorned or laughed at. They will not admit they believe every other religion is a fraud up front. Just like they won’t admit to the REAL practice of disconnection. Or Fair Game. Or many other things that might cause people to reject them at first blush – before they can be indoctrinated into the party line that the lies are told for the good of all mankind. Remember, if you believe everyone has been “implanted” to believe other religions are their salvation you will not get anywhere by trying to tell them they are wrong, they must be brought along to an understanding that scientology DOES contain the answers and then they can ultimately be relieved of their implants and see the trickery of other religions for what they really are.
Every scientologist knows this “acceptable truth” is not true, but it is so ingrained in the culture of scientology to tell “acceptable truths” they will all say publicly that you can be a Jew or a Buddhist or anything else and still be a scientologist. Yet every scientologist would laugh at the idea of someone telling the course supervisor that they are not attending course on Saturday because it is Shabbat. Or that they could not stand and applaud L. Ron Hubbard (or David Miscavige) because it was worshipping a false idol. They would last 30 seconds and be sent to Ethics as “PTS” at a minimum, with orders to be “handled.”
This is just another small part of the deception of scientology.
The Last Word:
A commenter provided this and it really IS the last word. The official statement of the church to the IRS in seeking tax exempt status. Bolding mine:
The following is from “The Church of Spiritual Technology’s Explanation to the IRS As To Why It Qualifies As a “Church” Described in Section 170(b)(1)(A)(i).” It was reprinted in the December 1993 (Vol. 8, No. 6) issue of The Exempt Organization Tax Review, a publication of Tax Analysts, Inc.
The magazine gives as its source “Response to Final Series of IRS Questions Prior to Recognition of Exemption of CST Under Section 501(c)(3) As a Church on October 1, 1993. ”
Footnote 6: Although there is no policy or Scriptural mandate expressly requiring Scientologists to renounce other religious beliefs or membership in other churches, as a practical matter Scientologists are expected to and do become fully devoted to Scientology to the exclusion of other faiths. As Scientologists, they are required to look only to Scientology Scriptures for the answers to the fundamental questions of their existence and to seek enlightenment only from Scientology. Thus, a Scientologist who grew up in the Jewish faith who continues formal membership in his synagogue and attends services with his family violates no Scientology policy or tenet. On the other hand, such a person is not permitted to mix the practice of his former faith into his practice and understanding of Scientology so as to alter orthodox Scientology in any way.
Thanks!
Traditional Judeo-Christian theology is incompatible with the tenets of Scientology. From the perspective of the former, one cannot be both and live the values of the former.
Clear, whose ever clear. I mean they have been working on people for a lot of years. The whole frigging planet could have been cleared, saved, an whatever else eons ago.
Every time I read something sent to me by this church, (cough), in Michigan, an now down here in Virginia, or the IAS, I get massive brain cramps as apposed to farts, if I believed.
Therefore, I take 2 Tylenol, and deposit their materials in file 13.
I feel sorry for all the trees, cut down in their prime to promote this drivel.
I received a very offensive reply from someone named Mike. Not only was he offensive, but illogical in his rambling. Not only does he demonstrate what’s wrong with this money hungry whining and enforced poverty of an org, he, I supposed defends this drivel. If this is a person representing Scientology, he did them a great disservice.
I am not bothered by the fact that scientology argues that it is the only path of salvation. The vast majority or religions, cults, sects, etc. all believe that their teachings (or those of a similar group of people) are the the road to redemption. Those that do not tend to be syncretic and add other religions to their belief system without regard to the other religion’s beliefs.
For example, most variants of Christianity believe that Jesus Christ is the only path of salvation. Some believe that Jesus will save some non-Christians (I believe this is mainstream Catholic doctrine) and obviously people differ on who counts as a Christian. For example, a fair number of Christians reject Latter Day Saint (Mormon) beliefs, viewing them as non-Christian.
In traditional Islam, a religion that did not acknowledge Allah was not even granted second class humiliated status. Even the most tolerant and open groups of Muslims believe that submission to the will of Allah is the only way to salvation.
It says something that Scientology can’t admit that they are a separate religion, relying on deceit instead. However, in comparison to the wickedness of Devious Miscarriage, it is small potatoes.
Yes, the problem is that they wait until you are hooked, then intentionally provoke dischord wiht your beliefs and therefore with your family, etc… They explicity promise NOT to do EXACTLY what they do..
NO OTHER RELIGION DOES THIS…
But otherwise, sure, Miscavige is the problem, sure…
I often see comments under articles about Scientology pointing out that they really are no different than any other religion.
So Scientology’s got Xenu and space opera – Christianity has a dead guy rising from the grave, talking snakes, and a guy getting swallowed by a whale and living to tell. So Scientology’s got disconnection – Amish have shunning. So Scientology’s got Sea Org, where people live in hovels and work 100 hour weeks for pennies – Buddhists have monks who live in spartan monasteries and don’t talk for decades. So Scientologists insist you can only be a Scientologist and nothing else – so do most other mainstream religions.
And on and on. Almost every bizarre practice or belief in Scientology can be compared in some way to a practice or belief in other religions. This serves to lessen the shock factor – yeah, the thought goes, so they’re nutty. So are all religions, to some degree.
But there are some very distinct differences that put Scientology on an entirely different plane, which you have aptly called out.
No other religion makes you spend years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to find out what their true doctrine is.
No other religion forbids ANY contact with shunned members, or puts one’s own membership, and connections with one’s own family, at risk for having any contact with disaffected family members. No other religion tears apart families to this degree, against the will of the members (and then lies about it, saying it’s “voluntary” when it’s clearly not). Even Amish shunning does not forbid all contact.
No other religion forces CHILDREN into their harshest orders, or threatens members of these orders with mega-dollar invoices for services supposedly rendered while in the order, and disconnection from their own families if they decide to leave.
No other religion blatantly lies about the ability for someone to belong to other faiths, only revealing the truth (that it’s not actually permitted) once they have their clutches into you.
These are the facts that are too often ignored in these “it’s just another nutty religion” comments. It’s not.
LeeAnne I want to applaud you for your analysis. You are quite correct and I thank you.
ALL religions try to control and manipulate people. Scientology is just better at it…. And more paranoid than other religions. lol.
Actually, there is a bit of resurgence of this happening in certain parts of American Christianity, especially in the “new” Reformed movement (John Piper, Mark Driscoll, The Gospel Coalition, etc).
I’ve just started learning about Scientology, but this is actually startlingly similar to things that have been becoming public about American Christianity in just the last 3-5 years.
Actually, Catholic doctrine posits that a person who is not exposed to the Truth (i.e., the correct belief, whatever that is) will not be judged for not knowing. They cite the case of a person in another country who was never exposed to Catholicism or Christianity (because even though we disagree on theology, most Christian brothers are still part of the family) would not be held accountable for not becoming Christian. (CCC 847) In other words, we cannot limit God’s Mercy and the Redemptive Act of the Cross assures us that Jesus’ Love for humanity was unconditional. So, if someone was only raised Scientologist and never heard of why Scientology was not true, they would not be judged by this flaw.
One simply cannot place a limit on God’s Love. That is like saying Mom and Dad love one child more than another!
Mike,
This was a very eye opening blog. I don’t know if you even realize how important this information is. There are many people; myself included, that have thought or are still thinking about joining Scientology, because of the appeal behind being able to continue as a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhists, etc., and also become a Scientologists. As a person that has also escaped from an oppressive cult; I was nearly sucked into the vortex known as Scientology, because I was not yet aware of the very similar mind control techniques used unilaterally by these groups. I am so thankful that you and Leah Remini are doing the serial documentary exposing the particular cult that you both were part of for so many years. Even though your intentions are help people escape Scientology; you are helping thousands of others escape or avoid joining the various cults that use the same techniques. Mind Control through [these are not the technical terms; just how they implement them] information overload, idolization of a particular figure, the idea that your group is the only one that has the truth, etc., are not only used by oppressive cults, but also by totalitarian, fascist, socialist governments as a way to control their people. Again thanks!
Sincerely,
Douglas Cline
It appears that LRH might have discovered the way that the ancient overlords controlled humans and was using their tech as his own to control people. I always felt he was brilliant, but not in the benign way that scientologists like to believe. When I looked at his picture I sensed..deceit. Thanks for what you’re doing. They pressured me to join the sea org 30 years ago. I thought I took LSD but they talked me into believing I didn’t take it. I joined for 2 months. I realized that I did take it and I resigned. I didn’t blow. I routed out. I had not idea that they kept members prisoner. I was in shock. They never tell you that and they also never told me I couldn’t have children. I never would have joined if I knew that in the first place! Leah’s show is an eye opener for me.
SCN is about the most atheistic “religious” practice one could ever devise. The mere mention of “God” or any sort of “higher power” is met with the blank, incredulous stares of non-comprehension, at best. Any such concept is simply “not-is’ed” (denied as non-existent) in SCN. Such a mindset is used to justify almost anything, as there is nothing above SCN to answer to in their world.
Thank you for tackling this complex subject with such clarity. I personally know of one SO member who was kicked out of RTC because he once went to Sunday mass during Sunday CSP. He was accused of practicing other practices. And it was all kept very hush hush.
Just one thing on this, the term “Everyman” has a different meaning to “every man”. It means a symbolic figure or object depicted as man (in general) as I can understand it. See the 16th century Philip Roth play and I believe there is also a symbol connected to this, the man seemingly on the cross with arms spread and with circles around him, but I may be mistaken (on that). For instance the Germans call it/him “Der Jedermann”.
Also relevant is what the Church of Scientology represented to the IRS.
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/irs.htm
* * * * * BEGIN QUOTATION * * * * *
From: rnewman@shell1.cybercom.net (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: CoS tells IRS it’s incompatible with other religions
Date: 4 Apr 1997 23:36:45 -0500
Organization: The Sea Plus Plus Org
Scientology likes to tell people that it is compatible with other religions, and that you don’t have to leave your current religion to join Scientology.
In 1993, however, they told the IRS something different.
The following is from “The Church of Spiritual Technology’s Explanation to the IRS As To Why It Qualifies As a “Church” Described in Section 170(b)(1)(A)(i).” It was reprinted in the December 1993 (Vol. 8, No. 6) issue of The Exempt Organization Tax Review, a publication of Tax Analysts, Inc.
The magazine gives as its source “Response to Final Series of IRS Questions Prior to Recognition of Exemption of CST Under Section 501(c)(3) As a Church on October 1, 1993. ”
— begin quote —
Footnote 6: Although there is no policy or Scriptural mandate expressly requiring Scientologists to renounce other religious beliefs or membership in other churches, as a practical matter Scientologists are expected to and do become fully devoted to Scientology to the exclusion of other faiths. As Scientologists, they are required to look only to Scientology Scriptures for the answers to the fundamental questions of their existence and to seek enlightenment only from Scientology. Thus, a Scientologist who grew up in the Jewish faith who continues formal membership in his synagogue and attends services with his family violates no Scientology policy or tenet. On the other hand, such a person is not permitted to mix the practice of his former faith into his practice and understanding of Scientology so as to alter orthodox Scientology in any way.
— end quote —
OK, folks. Start posting followups to this message containing official CoS statements that contradict the above. I hope to see a long thread here!
—
Ron Newman rnewman@cybercom.net
Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
* * * * * END QUOTATION * * * *
See 12-3, fn. 6 at: http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/irs/1993-1023-csi-questions-4.pdf
http://i.imgur.com/KpojWph.jpg
Wow!! This was very informative. I have been wondering about how or if God fits into Scientology. I can’t believe how easy it is for them to just dismiss the thought of there being a God because they are simply told to. Truly truly sad that people have been so easily sucked into the Scientology cult.
God was simple. LRH = God. Look no further. 🙁
Thanks Mike,
I didn’t know that nonsense about the volcano on the cover of the dianetics book, in my exprerience no one responded to this, the only thing that was effective was a good sales technique by the person selling the book.
The lecture and Basics book covers always bothered me, they always made the contents look so interesting and then when you listened to them they were the same old hour upon hour of hubbard drivel.
Thank you, Mike Rinder, for unraveling further the mysteries and inconsistencies of scientology. Sometime after I left the so-called “church” of scientology, I started reading the OT materials as contained in the Tech Volumes. I can’t quite understand why some of that gibberish is delivered in Hubbard’s handwriting. Perhaps that’s all part of the “mystique.” I am so fortunate not to have made it to the OT Levels as a public person. I’m glad, instead, to have reached those “exalted” levels as a bitter, disgruntled apostate.
Happy New Year! Happy New Leah Remini Episodes! Hip Hip Hooray!
Fred G. Haseney, ex-scientologist (1977-2014)
Mike can you please tell me if this is bogus ?
Or dhd she really have a relationship w Ron H?
https://youtu.be/hicxJSg0ygY
I have no independent information. Her relationship was covered in Barefaced Messiah
To all those still standing in defense of Scientology ‘technology’… in the words of Jason Beghe…”show me a mother fucking clear”.
If the tech actually worked, you couldn’t keep the masses of people away, Orgs would honestly be booming (not the bullshit Ideal Orgs that remain empty). Regardless of how many staff members the Pope beat up on, Scientology would be expanding. The money, the sacrifices, the hard work…it would all be worth it IF THE TECH WORKED.
You want to keep on believing in it, auditing your way across the bridge to total freedom, go ahead, knock your socks off (or should I say BTs). If you follow this blog, and Tony Ortega’s, I think you’ll find that the vast majority of criticisms have to do with the multitude of abuses that are propagated by Scientology. Occasionally there is a critique of the ‘tech’, but hey, if it can’t stand up to slings and barbs, just how good can it be?
Well said Zola. If it worked C of S would be expanding……
The only ‘cognition’ I needed in Scientology was realizing that the whole subject was nothing more than a mental construct of L. Ron Hubbard. The whole organization today is a dim reflection of the remnants of his DNA, altered by David Miscavige’s semicolon strategy, ideal org real estate scam and IAS money extraction machine.
I see Brian is pushing the “OT8 Lucifer Jesus pedophile” thing for all he’s worth which has been discussed here ad infinitum and ad nauseum as a completely faked and made up, perhaps even tongue-in-cheek, piece of nonsense. If you seriously believe that Hubbard had any part in writing that drivel either you are either off your rocker or have an IQ of 65. Some nasty vicious little worm invented that nasty vicious little story and ascribed it to Hubbard, for whatever nasty vicious reasons nasty vicious people have to do these sort of things.
There are those who did the original OT VIII who claim this is real. Frankly, I don’t think it really matters, but I am curious about what leads you to the conclusion it is faked and even tongue-in-cheek? What is so much more incredible about this than what is written in Hubbard’s own hand about OT III? Both, to non-believers, would be equally insane. But I don’t know how a believer in OT III thetans frozen in glycol transported in DC 8 spaceships to volcanoes and implanted with picture of God and Angels and spinning dancers is more credible?
I do not know if this supposed OT VIII issue is true or not.
But based on a comparison of other Hubbard writings I cannot conclude it is not true because it is too outrageous?
Remember, I HAVE read his writings about the Planet Farsec, home of the psychs (ONLY to be read by those who needed to know and were in good enough case shape to “handle it”). That was really out there…
It is impossible now to acquire upper level materials from the Church, since the Copenhagen affair in 1983. AO materials are subjected to such security that nothing has come out of the church in that line for decades. And the story on this (fake “OT8”) is that “someone slipped the OT8 HCOB under the cabin door of the person doing the OT8 course on the ship”. This is of course a most unusual way of enrolling people onto Advanced Courses, seemingly bypassing all normal routings and apprising them of the materials of the confidential course – at dead of night in his cabin and not even in the confidential course room! Now, I don’t recall that step on any of the AO routing forms to wit – “Senior C/S to slip a little note with a load of nonsense on it under the cabin door of the Pre-OT with the highly confidential course materials on it and see what happens! If any screams come from said cabin then call ‘HCO Bring Order!'”.(I am now being tongue in cheek, of course.)
Who are these people trying to kid? Well it seems that some fools have fallen for it! Or some desperately want this “shore story” to be true for whatever daft agenda they have.
So he (whoever is purporting this) now:
a) keeps hold of this piece of paper on the ship;
b) carries on doing this material on the ship as his “OT8”;
c) manages to smuggle it off the ship (!!!) and down the gangplank without a care in the world
d) he/she does all this despite being sec-checked to the ying-yangs;
e) doesn’t then copy the original HCOB but presents a document which purports to be the HCOB;
f) so the write-up is just that, not an original HCOB – (seems quite “detailed” for a write-up!);
g) Hubbard in this write-up contradicts his own OTIII story, which you “nicely” show to the world above.
As to the actual “content” of this missive then well, as I say, if you believe that drivel, well, God help you.
The only other possibility, if the shore story above is in any way true, and it is a good possibility perhaps from what we know of the Homunculous (Miscavige) (good word that from Truth Teller) is that this nasty vicious little worm invented this nonsense to see how easy it would be to con people or how easy it might be to feed people any old nonsense. Some weird little “management” exercise of his that he then spends days about laughing with his fellow rock slammer Execs as to how foolish some people could be in believing this nonsense. That might be an outside possibility, but no, all you have to do is read the story.
Perhaps Terra wrote it! Now, that I could believe! Or Brian – as he is obtaining quite a bit of anti-Scientology “mileage” from it. In actual fact I think Terra is Lucifer and Brian is an Angel! Yes, I am sure that is the way it is! Someone just slipped a little note under my door which said so! Honest injun!
p.s. Mike feel free to tell us about the Farsec story. You know me – I’ll believe anything!
Frankly Mike it does “really matter”, I am sure you would not like to be misquoted so badly yourself.
I of course the dead cannot defend themselves so I suppose you and the “wreckig Crew” will keep at it.
Ron is dead. Let him rest eh?
Why not not concentrate on the really important things like “The Homunculi’s” fraudulent levels, his stolen hidden funds?
The current names and positions of the major players in his rotten game of stealing money without delivering the Tech.
All you seem to do these days is attack and berate LRH and the Tech.
Some might think you are simply on the end of some strings
Instead of focusing on the comment “it doesn’t really matter” if it is a real document or not (which was supporting YOUR point), why don’t you answer the question I posed? Why is this inherently less believable than OT III?
I thought LRH wasn’t dead, but just on another world continuing his work….so he IS dead and resting in peace?
Happy New Foolproof!! Mr. Drivel at your service.
This link took place at Marty’s blog a few years ago. On this blog we’re folks that took the original OT8 and those that took the later.
Click link at your own risk. The discussion was thrown around the internet.
Read it and decide for yourself.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comments
May you have the bestest of best years Foolproof, for yourself and those you love.
Thank you for you loyalty and passion for your perspective.
You add spice to the party ?
And may you find the spiritual freedom your heart desires in the chosen path you follow. I meant that in al sincerity.
Foolproof, scroll down to my name. I started the discussion and a bunch of OT8s chimed in. It’s informative.
Hi Brian, your name is on that page quite a few times. Just an advice: if you right-click on the date and time of a blog comment, you can copy the link to the comment itself, and use paste somewhere else. E.g. your post I am now answering to:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/can-scientologists-be-christians-or-jews-too/#comment-157018
Works the same over on Marty’s.
And a happy new year!
Thanks Trev
and of course we can all check that they are OT 8 oh really!
New Comers, one of the things you will notice with core Scientologists like Truth Teller, Foolproof and sometimes Marlidli is that their minds go into shut down when logic and reason has boxed them in.
Just recall all of the times when journalists would ask a spokesperson for Scientologist or jus a Scientologist about OT3.
You can see them flinch and deny the question. They skirt around the issue or condemn the questioner for asking the question.
Same thing is going on here with Ron’s claim of being the anti Christ.
I believe it’s because they are too embarrassed.
It could also be that the image of L Ron Hubbard in their heads don’t match the reality.
Same thing goes when you bring up Ron wanting to commit suicide.
One poster My Two Cents, a more moderate guy, said that Ron was so above his body and enlightened (paraphrase) and finished with his work that he was being benevolentvans wanting to free space aliens form his body.
Also if you read Mike’s blog How Scientology handles Critics: L Ron Hubbard’s Play Book, you will find Foolproof agreeing with it.
Can you imagine a mind agreeing with that?
It’s what makes Scientology potentially very dangerous.
Also I noticed Marildi, who always comes to the defense of Ron when we criticize him, had zero posts on that How Scientology Deals With Critics. She gave not one opinion of outrage.
So she spends much time attempting to take down Ron critics but had zero opinion of Ron’s devious and evil instructions to destroy critics.
Keep that in mind when she posts.
I am not criticizing you Marildi. I am simply stating an observation of your ‘no show’ on the Critics blog and a very large presence posting to protect the good name of Ron.
Very telling.
Brian, you claim I said the following.
“One poster My Two Cents, a more moderate guy, said that Ron was so above his body and enlightened (paraphrase) and finished with his work that he was being benevolent and wanting to free space aliens form his body.”
I didn’t say that. What I did say was that the electro-shock e-meter Sarge built was not a suicide device. Everyone’s body eventually dies, regardless of how enlightened one is or isn’t. Ron knew his body couldn’t last much longer, so he wasn’t worried about the shock killing it. He wanted to blow off some stubborn BTs, and most likely not for their benefit but his own, and possibly as an experiment.
Also, I said nothing about how enlightened or “above his body” Ron was or wasn’t. And I’ve very definitely stated that he wasn’t “finished with his work.”
Finally, Ron didn’t say that “body thetans (BTs)” are “space aliens” or weird in any way. He said they’re just people, like us, who got killed in a very violent incident that rendered them incapable of running bodies of their own anymore. Yes, he said they were brought here from other planets, but that doesn’t mean that their original bodies, when they had them, weren’t human.
Brian, I read this years ago and first read the actual document (which must be a “remembered” write up not an HCOB) in the 1980s probably before many on here had even heard of it, and responded then immediately by stating it was bullshit, as do many of the commenters on the link you posted. It seems to be quite a feat to remember perfectly 3 or 4 pages of an “HCOB” and as well as that with the other document listing “precisely” the processes to run as well eh? Funny that eh? And is Hubbard going to contradict his own OTIII materials which this supposed HCOB does? If so why did he not cancel OTIII then? And so the illogic goes on and on.
So as I say, if George M.White is being adamant about it and truthful, then it can only have been a Miscavige experiment, as I say.
And do you really think that, if it was actually written by LRH, that Miscavige would dare to cancel it as he seemingly did? If that ever came out via others like Marty or Mithoff close to the tech or Freewinds lines if they ever escaped, he would be dead in the Scientology water immediately.
But really, to ascribe this drivel to LRH is for the birds. So either Miscavige has taken you all for a ride or – the document is a complete spoof. There was another spoof like this in a similar vein – the NOTs Series 53 “HCOB” on Clearing Reads or something which was found to be a complete fraud written by some nasty piece of work. I didn’t fall for that one either. I have never read one HCOB that I thought was “strange” and anybody tech-trained will say the same. I thought this was strange (rather an understatement) immediately when I read it.
But undoubtedly you will persist in pushing this line. Well, carry on believing it (or rather not believing it (even you can’t be that idiotic) but hoping that other poor fools might do so to satisfy your agenda).
Mike as the New Year makes it’s appearance,you have such a profound & well written piece on Ron and his Game.It really made me look at some very familiar images from years ago in another brighter light.Ron just loved his own viewpoint so much he was willing to sacrifice many on his altar.My first weeks in Sea Org @ Asho F,no-one quite knew where to put me.So besides running the folding machine Yikes! I also got to do special drills considering I had much catching up to do having not been in org or mission prior.At one point a GO/ Information was the Org board title but read Intelligence stopped by where I was at a course table and basically said,Two points Ann.One the Scientology Cross does represent the eight dynamics But that is all you are to say about it.Do not go into any more detail than that and when you reg anyone Through Mail or phone make sure you emphasize that one can still be of another faith and be in good standing with the Church.I may have been very green but I had a distant thought that that was bs considering the sec-checking marathon I had started to be put through regarding my life before Scientology & why I had joined the Sea Org.I was thought of as a plant by more than one terminal.Along with all the other lies,this one about mixing Scientology with other religions was never ever even close to the truth.
Happy Happy 2017 to you and Christie,Shane & Jack & all you love.???
Happy New Year Ann. To you and yours❤️
Scientology makes sense to me, always has, always will, and I point to the factors as my ultimate truth.
Critics can, do and will continue to pull apart bits out of context to belittle it. I lost any christian beliefs I had when as a child, so scared by the thought of the devil, I dared him to come and get me and take me to hell. This is the belief I was taught. The devil never did. So to try and place Christianity as having some sort of moral authority does not wash with me.
Electronic implantation is a fact of life, practiced by such “luminaries” as the CIA among many others in or close to present time. It is one of the most destructive things that can be done to a being. You, in attempting to bring down, now, as it turns out the religion of Scientology are harming something that can undo that damage. Perhaps you are engaging your boiled frog explanation to your audience of this blog.
I applaud and thank you for the reporting of the abuses of the church but It has come to a point with you Mike, and your followers, where Scientologists who want to have the religion continue in peace, with the abuses halted, that I genuinely say thank god for the first amendment.
If you don’t believe in a God, why is your last statement… Thank God?
Ha Krista. Good catch.
“Good catch”? Christ, Jeez, thank God that I can differentiate the nuances of language and the major and minor importances of life rather than take things literally as Krista and Pink Legs do. God help us, but this is getting ungodly! Poor devils! They are even congratulating themselves on this marvellous “catch” without realizing how daft and petty they come “a-cross” as. God be with you Penny! Jeez…
Nice comment Penny. I too am grateful for the 1st Amendment and I’m not even an American. We have laws in most societies that monitor or attempt to monitor criminal activities and abuses. It is an unfortunate fact of life they aren’t as effective as they make out or would like to be, many criminals are expert in circumventing the laws put in place to curb their activities. But the US Constitution is imo the most remarkable document after the Magna Carta ever to be implemented in any society. Just to think where or just how long the US in its present state would have survived without it boggles the mind. Freedom of speech and religion must be maintained for it heralds a new dark age if they ever disappear. I agree that the most important aspect of the Scientology debate is the removal of the abuses and the criminal aspect to it exposed and eliminated. No-one really has the right to insist another must adhere to their way of thinking. A common thread of it’s all bad with Scientology, no matter what, is growing daily. It’s a lot easier apparently to join a bandwagon of common ‘belief of denial’ than to stand up for what you believe in with regard to Scientology or any other religion for that matter, they all have their levels of abuses as afar as a I can tell. Especially of children and or their education.
“…with the abuses halted.”
Yes. Believe what you want.
Penny, nothing written in this article is pulled apart bits out of context. You believe what you want to believe and I believe what I want to believe, but let’s not pretend it’s something other than what it is.
Penny,
This post was not LRH taken out of context. That is exactly what he meant, and exactly what scientologists know is true.
I am glad you like your path penny. These discussions are never about anyone’s right to believe or practice anything.
But just as you have a right to think that this world is a result of an electronic implant, we have a right to challenge that doctrine as a delusional absurdity.
And we also have a right to consider these doctrines dangerous and should be exposed as such.
The heart of criticism really lies with the OT/BT doctrine.
There has been no sage, no wise man, no saint and no liberated person who has come up with this BT stuff. That makes Ron the only man in the history of forever to find this.
This makes Ron the wisest man in the universe. That is a narcissistic megalomaniacal assertion.
The world at large will always reject this notion.
We are heading in our society, in our culture in our world to a more inclusive, tolerant and accepting nature.
That is my take. Gone are the days when “only way” thought clubs rule the masses.
The new paradigm is inclusion, appreciation and recognition of the validity of all true spiritual paths.
As they say in India; unity in diversity.
Ron was old school. His model was a mechanical model. Always about the mind and endless sessions seeking endless chains of endless associations of events.
Never about the endless empty spaces of pure being, pure joy and conscious immortality. Always about the past, the past, the past. Always stuck in the mind.
Tell me, we now know that Ron was running BTs until his dying breath. Running BTs years after creating OT8.
If Ron was running BTs until death and still did not clear himself of them, why do you think you can.
It is now known that Sarge, Ron’s handyman who was with him until the end, said that LRH wanted him to create an emeter that would conduct 220 volts of electricity into his body so Ron could free BTs and kill his own body. In the wog world we call that suicide.
Sarge told this to Marty and Mike and I believe in the book Going Clear.
Sarge also told Marty that Ron was asking Sarge to go around his ranch and find BTs.
Think of that. Looking around the ranch to find Ron’s BTs.
Only an indoctrinated, well studied, well demoed student of Ron’s could consider this sanity, or the wishes of a wiseman.
No doubt there are benevolent aspects of Scientology. And these aspects are good. It’s probably why it has lasted so long.
But Penny, there are some aspects that are harmful.
The man whose hands you place your spiritual life WAS wanting suicide to deal with his suffering.
Is this wisdom?
Is this a valid road out?
Is this 100 percent standard tech?
Is this FREEDOM from the flesh?
I wish you well penny. Just keep asking questions. Don’t let anyone say asking questions or being curious is being an SP.
That is not the road out.
Freedom is:
Investigating whatever you want, anytime you want, with whom ever you want about anything.
That is freedom. When someone tells you you cannot look at something, cannot research something, cannot think about something and they call it the ROAD TO FREEDOM??????
I am sorry Penny. That is the tyranny of thought masquerading as the “road out”
Think about it.
Brian, you said that LRH’s writings were “never about the endless empty spaces of pure being, pure joy and conscious immortality. Always about the past, the past, the past. Always stuck in the mind.”
This is not true. See Professional Auditors Bulletin #6, in which he recommends the process “Take 10 Minutes of Nothing.”
It takes a lot more practice than 10 min to arrive at the joy and freedom of endless radiant perception of pure being
And that joy and freedom was obviously not attained by Ron. The corollary of that is that he could not lead us to that state.
That process is like trying to empty the ocean with a thimble.
You’ll move some water, but reaching your goal is futile.
True teachers live and are the realities they teach. Con men sell products they do not have.
You can’t learn weight loss from the fat man.
Brian, I didn’t claim that Take 10 Minutes of Nothing is all one would have to do to arrive at some permanently enlightened state. My point was just that LRH did issue tech directly aimed at Nothingness.
Take 10 Minutes of Nothing is similar to non-mantra, mindfulness meditation. It can be repeated frequently and for years. And as with meditation, beginners might have to slog through a lot of Something to find even one minute of Nothing. So the sessions wouldn’t necessarily be just 10 minutes in duration.
The vast majority of Scientology processes do not directly address static Nothingness. Living involves both Something and Nothing, which are at their best when kept in balance. When our attention is stuck on all manner of Something, that blocks our awareness of Nothing. The vast majority of Scientology processes are aimed at recovering attention overly stuck on Something, so balance can be restored, and Nothing can be properly and fully experienced.
There are no shortcuts in this, and I don’t claim that LRH had it all figured out, only that he figured out a lot. Meanwhile there are shortcuts in Vedic practices, but pitfalls as well. Prior to my involvement in Scientology I experienced both. Have you read the brontebaxter article I gave you for New Year’s?
My 2 Cents- Just curious, how much did it cost you to read “Take 10 minutes of Nothing?” $5, $50, $500 more..? It has always baffled me anyone has to pay to gain enlightenment, salvation or spiritual eternity. For me, personally, praying to God and working to be happy and kind to others is enough for me.
The problem with Ron’s idea of nothing is that nothing is not nothing.
Blankness is not the goal. In a deep state of stillness. When the constant occillations of thought are stilled. When the course vibrations of matter have neutralized back into pure being, from whence all this space and time originates, that state is filled with such joy and endlessness no tongue can tell.
The goal is not nothing. The goal is the neutralization of mind into an incredible state of fulness of being. Causless wisdom and causless being/
L Ron Hubbard never attained that state. So he did not know how to teach it to his students.
For the Scientologists, it’s the endless modifications of thought. On and on about the mind, about others minds (Bts).
The only thing Ron said was the Static had qualities.
Thats like saying Beethoven’s 5th symphony is composed of notes and claiming to know the glorious nature of that work.
L Ron Hubbard, my dear My Two Cents was stuck in his head. He was not free. He was not wise. So he cannot lead you to your goal.
If he did not get there using his techniques, why do you think you can?
It makes no sense.
You can’t learn weight loss from the fat man.
When I said Nothing, I meant the “fullness of being” you speak of. As one de-creates Somethingness, the Nothingness that is uncovered is not blankness, but a fullness of being.
I experienced this in Vedic meditation prior to Scientology and also as a result of Scientology auditing later.
I will say, however, that the speed with which this experience manifests as Scientologists go up the levels seems to vary a lot from one person to another, depending on the potential of the individual.
But your repetitive claim that there is no true spirituality in Scientology is simply incorrect and ill-informed.
There is spirituality in Scientology. Anytime anyone is sincere and wanting to learn and willing to look: there is spiritual gain. Even Scientology.
I’ve never said there is nothing to learn in Scientology.
I’ve just said there are a lot of falsehoods and baggage that can make the climb harder than it needs to be.
Being that we are spiritual beings, it’s impossible to not have spiritual experiences.
I also have said that the goal of liberation cannot be had in Scientology because the teacher was not liberated.
Can’t learn weight loss from the fat man:-))
Penny, I applaud you for speaking your truth in no uncertain terms. Most of your post is my truth too.
I totally agree with you Penny. I really hate it when Mike and others of his ilk try to restrict religious beliefs of Ederabuseology, Financial-Ruinology, Forced-Abortionology, Slaverology and Brainwashingology.
Mike, we just want to be able to believe in what we want to believe. Is there something wrong with that?
I applaud and thank you for taking such a courageous stand. We should put up a billboard or something, ya know?
Correction: Elderabuseology. Sorry Elderabuseologists.
Well said, Penny. And courageous, too, considering the tone of some of the other comments here.
If a person has been helped by scientology, or considers that they have, it is cruelty for anyone to try to undermine whatever peace they have found.
And I genuinely say, “Thank god I’m an atheist.”
When Scientology declares to harm me and my tribe (LGBTs), it is cruelty for anyone to try to promote it, and it is a worthy endeavor to try to destroy it.
See, it works both ways.
People have a right to question Scientology, and Mike has a right to question whether it is the Scientology practices that helped, or just residual side effects from it that made people feel good. Of course, people have the right to believe in things, but if they are proven untrue, then people have the right to critically discuss it. Mike (and many other Scientology critics) take a mature and nuanced stance at looking at the practices that were developed by LRH and what they actually do. Not what LRH said they would do, but the scientific reality of it.
For example, no one ever said that auditing your past traumas wouldn’t help – of course, talking about a past event and having someone listen helps. But the rest of the levels are based on sending people into a hypnotic trance. Where the end result is a sense of temporary euphoria that gives someone the impression that they have achieved something new, yet… that effect never lasts more than a few days. It is a condition that is not only achieved by Scientology but also by other religious and “spiritual” movements. Having an honest discussion about the ethics of a “religion” to charge abusive amounts of money to people to achieve these trances while promising them completely false results is dishonest, abusive, and needs to be discussed. Just as much as the practices of other religions need to be discussed critically.
Critical thinking is so important and unfortunately, not taught enough to people. Keep thinking, listen to people who have opposite views to your own, and when something offends you, ask yourself why. That is all that matters. It is the only way that we grow, really.
I myself was a never in. However, as a teenager, I was an evangelical christian with my own set of harmful beliefs and practices. And so I understand the feeling of holding on to a belief system and refusing to see the harm that can be done by it (to myself and others). I am interested in all religious movements, not only Scientology, and I am equally critical of all religious movements. And I appreciate the honest discussions on this blog and will continue to come back for more. So thank you Mike for continuing your good and hard work. And happy new year!!
Well Penny, I do not agree with your statement that (quote) “Electronic implantation is a fact of life,” Or: (quote) “…You, in attempting to bring down, are harming something that can undo that damage.”
Really? I’d like to see you prove your first statement, that it is a fact of life (where/how/who/specifics please) and I’d love to see you prove how Scientology can “undo the damage”. Concrete proof please. We’ve had Scientology since 1950 or so, eh? Please show proof it’s not just a scam.
As far as David Cooke’s comment: No, it is not cruel to bring attention to the abuses of the Church of Scientology. If you believe “ignorance is bliss” well, maybe. But it isn’t “cruel” to hold something up to the light and examine it closely. If it can’t hold up under scrutiny, then it wasn’t good in the first place. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Truth is more important to me than allowing someone to believe falsehoods because it would hurt their ‘sense of self’ or ‘undermine their peace’. Why don’t you want to know? Why don’t you want to examine your beliefs, let others look at them? You examine a piece of fruit before you buy it right? Hold that apple up and look all around it, check for bruises, bad spots, feel if it’s overripe, if it’s good or not? How much more important is it to examine your very thought processes and what you put in your mind, than a small item of food that you put in your body.
If I saw a person with sight-impairment placing some rotten fruit in a bag to buy it, I’d say, hey, it looks like that’s not going to be good for you – I’m telling you since you can’t see for yourself. I wouldn’t expect him or her to say – thanks for nothing, now you’ve disturbed my peace of mind, how cruel.
T.J.: If Penny wants to believe in electronic implants, xenu, or whatever….none of my business. But please while you’re doing that would you please not put my 12 year old child in lifetime servitude, ruin my family with disconnection (I know it doesn’t exist, but anyway), beatings, forced abortions, elderly abuse, and other niceties.
Well that’s where we differ. I don’t want to attack Penny and hold her accountable for all the bad deeds of her ‘church’, and we all know very well what those are, I want her to examine her own beliefs and why she feels they are correct.
The bigger picture is once individual members start seeing things as they truly are, they won’t accept things to continue the way it has been; it leads to reform. If you only ‘yell’ at members about the misdeeds of their group, they are going to feel attacked, they will not be receptive to what you are saying, they will further close off their mind, now they can’t hear you, and instead will go into ‘defense’ mode, feeling they must be loyal to their organization.
So this type of comment accomplishes the opposite result of what I’d like to see. That’s why I never ‘yell’ at members about the wrongdoing of their church, or use harsh, blaming language, instead I urge them to take a deeper look at their own actions and behavior and thought processes. If you talk to people like this there is a chance it will get through and they will think about what you say, if they feel attacked, they will shut down. So you have to decide if you’d rather ‘vent’ your frustrations here and express anger at members over the actions of their church, or talk to people in a more reasonable tone and hopefully help them decide to look with an open mind at what’s going on.
This is a voice of reason. Nicely said, T.J.
Shouldn’t that be “…thank CoB”?
Can you supply us with some empirical evidence to back up your claim about “Electronic implantation…” and please don’t use Hubbardisms to back up your statement.
The dinosaurs still exsisted 75 million years ago…
Thay went extinct 65 million years ago so the whole xenu story is a bit contrived to say the least. I mean dident L.ron do his homework before concocting this absured story?
And the whole DC8 planes? Jeeeezzz if you want to make up a stroy at least try to make it plausible… Why would people/alians ( humans did not exist 75 million years ago ) be useung a 1950
American plain to ship off lquidsed captured souls? Couldn’t he think of something more creative? A dc8 like plain? Then the whole 3d cinema implant is so ridiculous it hurts my brain…
There where no humans around that time so why implants of Jesus, jehuva and images of a culture that would exist only millions of years in the future; a tiny tiny bleep in the timeline of earth… ?
Neanderthal first inhabited earth 6 million years ago and homosepians only 200,000 years ago… So his crazy story holds no water…. He just sounds like an ignorent fool.
No wonder its “confidential” the story of superman 2 with Zod and the prisoners being captivated in the mirrors make more sense…i wonder if the writers where inspired by the xemo story?!
I’ve been laughing at OT3, ever since I did it! I mean, comedy wise, this shit is GOLD!!
Plated or the real thing? Even plating comes in 24ct. Don’t want no stinikin substitutes junking up the field.
That has always been a sticking point for me too. We don’t have recorded history that goes back that many millions of years. How did L. Ron Hubbard determine that this whole intergalactic thing happened? Can anyone show proof of any sort that it wasn’t just a made-up fairy tale?
At least Mormons had their golden plates, Christians have their religious books and artifacts, Jewish people have their ancient scrolls, but what does LRH have that proves the whole galactic overlord story? How does he KNOW that beings were thrown in volcanoes? Or that their spirits then arose and attached to people? Or that he alone discovered how to reverse this? A person would have to have really, really, strong faith to believe this story without one shred of proof, or be very gullible… or have joined a group that slowly and methodically, bit by bit, manipulated their thought process and conditioned them to believe these things by asserting control over them by hypnotic and persuasive methods and group pressure practices until they actually self censored what they allowed themselves to think. Fascinating.
OSD, my release and completion of OT 3 (never revealed to the examiner or auditor) was simply, “I’m running Ron’s case!” Dial wide F/N which continued for weeks.
I think that is the real cog of OT3. Since they did not give it to you Theman77…… here goes….
Thank you your needing is floating!
There you go again, trying to inject objective facts into the mix here! Why is it that non-$cilons and ex-members seem so intent on trying to poke holes in the $cn creation myth? Can’t you just leave these folks to believe in any ol’ damn thing that they like and acknowledge that humans believe in all manner of incredibly whacky shit…in fact, it kind of defines us as a qualitatively unique species!
$cilons are currently having a rough enough time of it already. What with Leah punking lil davey every Tuesday night (plus, lots of reruns!) and the rest of the wog world seeing $cilons as social pariahs, it’s tough times indeed for the cult.
I think we should reverse the trend here and applaud them whenever they’re being honest about their true beliefs (Xenu, BTs, Marcabian invader forces 1-5, implant stations on Mars and Venus, etc.) Sure, to you and I it’s some supremely whacked woo, but to them it’s real, just as to Mormons the golden tablets that Joseph Smith found were real, and the virgin birth of Christ is real to Christians. $cilons just need to gain the courage of their convictions and be “loud and proud” about their, umm, interesting beliefs. We just want $cilons not to be ashamed of who they are or afraid to talk about what the central tenets of the faith are.
So, I’m saying, let’s make it easier for them to do just that and only call them out – as Mike’s done here – when they lose their confront and start getting all agreeable and open-minded about what their religion teaches and demands of them in order to be Good Scientologists. It’s a very militant, high-demand group that is both absolutist and fundamentalist in its articles of faith, there’s just no getting around that fact. So, let’s help these poor folks who are too embarrassed by what their own faith preaches to share it with newcomers to get their confront up, and thereby, set an example of openness about the subject that, hopefully, will usher in a new era of honesty and truth telling within the cult.
I believe that newbie $cilons can handle the truth. It could be that Elron was wrong in just one tiny regard when he made the OT3 materials secret out of concern that the stuff was so powerful it could kill people. It’s been available on the internet for decades now and, to my knowledge no one has died from being exposed to it. So, it really is time for all True Believer $cilons to come clean about what the religion’s central tenets of faith are. And my bet is that they will feel better when you do…no more overts and withholds!
whoops.. if I read your post first, I wouldn’t have had to write mine. You said what I was thinking (and then posted) but you said it better… and first.
adding – my comment was to harpoona. in case the posts get shuffled around as sometimes occurs.
The story or idea that beings had been heavily electronically implanted in the distant past had always made sense to me. I mean … just LOOK at human beings and how they act! Unable to sanely observe, perceive and then act, they CONTINUALLY kill and torture each other AND themselves, engaging in useless wars over and over again. Yeah, DOES look like they had been implanted with lies and insanities which made them act robotically in the way they did.
So I had assumed that in the upper levels, one ran OUT these implants so as to now become a sane being and NOT act robotically. But … then over many decades I observed the behavior of “OTs”, folks who had done the upper levels.
You may not have noticed (as I have noted) that the dates of when the dinosaurs were extinguished has been constantly changing and being upped over the decades of “scientific thought” (which is only supposition anyway). Decades ago it was 30 million and changed a few times since then – in a few years it will be or might be,”dinosaurs were wiped out 74 million years ago”. It’s been creeping up for decades.
I was in a New Age cult from 1976 to 1987, am personally familiar with techniques of mind control and religious abuse used in COS, and follow with entrusiasm your battle to expose the true evil and perverted nature of the teachings of Scientology. My own spiritual journey has led me to a personal and intimate relationship with Christ which is the best and sweetest treasure imaginable. So I offer this to you–Scientology’s cross looks like an “X” over the cross of Christ. The “X” points are shorter over a traditional cross shape that is iconic. Around the world this cross signifies Christ, the incarnation of God’s son who came as a suffering servant to lay down his life, complete his mission of teaching, healing and giving life, and return to his father. Around the world that cross is both HATED and REVERED by millions and even billions. Seems to me that LRH’s true intent was to nullify the power of Christ’s cross by appropriating the symbol, role and power of savior to himself in as many hearts and minds as possible. In reality he’s just another imposter, leaving horrific personal destruction and devastation in countless lives. Same goes for DM, who tried to further embellish the personal mystery of LRH for his own self aggrandizement, by saying he left the body of his own accord when we all know he died of a heart attack. Whether you believe that Jesus was resurrected and ascended or not, we can agree with his statement “by their fruits you shall know them” and that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Gal.5:22). Obviously these wonderful and valuable “fruits” mean nothing in Scientology. The leaders outpicture the opposite; hatred, character assassination, persecution, unhappiness, chaos, impatience, depravity, evil, cruelty, and self indulgence, to name a few. They who claim to be spiritually advanced are truly spiritually bankrupt. So hats off to all of you fighting this good fight; Mike Rinder, and Leah, and all of you courageous folks who are exposing the lies and laying down your lives to help others see the truth. You rock!
“Whether you believe that Jesus was resurrected and ascended or not, we can agree with his statement “by their fruits you shall know them” and that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Gal.5:22).”
Exactly, Jan Carlson!
Hello Mr Carlson. … is there a possibility to write to you privately?… I have a couple of questions I would like to ask you based on what you wrote about the cross… I don’t know how we can do it.. I don’t want to write my email on here.. How do members contact one another in private?
Another interesting and informative read. I admire your use of reason & logic in the face of COS’s use of utter BS and petulance.
Mike…
Thank you. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Thank you so very very much for this article. It’s such a relief to read. This IS the way things are, this IS the truth, these ARE the very things he wrote and how it plays out. In particular I’ve long wished for the heinous concept of “acceptable truth” to be exposed and illustrated HARD on what the ramifications are of such a concept.
Thank you for all the work you have been doing all along, and for this past year in particular.
You are doing the almost impossible. You’re answering the questions that seemed so impossible to answer – what is Scientology really, how do people get involved, and why the hell would they stay?
Quoting hubbard and showing by his own words what he was, what he did, and what it’s all about is so valuable.
I applaud you so heartily. Everything you’re doing about this is heroic.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Outright LIES that one can be of other Faiths.
I made a video on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3u-ecotNYk
+1! Nice! Thanks for the link.
An excellent essay! I hope you and all your readers have a wonderful year ahead, Mike!
Dear Friends,
This first link is the original OT8 where Hubbard says he is Lucifer and calls Jesus a homosexual pedohile.
The second link from a Marty Rathbun blog where people who did the original OT8 course verified this. They said that David Miscavige changed it because it was too weird.
Dear Christians, this is how Scientology feels about Christ. Call you senator, congressman and let them know your complaint. We need a tsunami of angels to take down this beast. Start making a fuss by the thousands. Or millions
1). https://whyweprotest.net/threads/original-ot-viii-before-dm-squirreled-it.116506/
2). https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comments
Tell your representatives to watch Leah’s show. I contacted all of my representatives. They pick up the phone. Tell them you want investigations.
FLOOD THEIR PHONE LINES. DO IT FOR ALL OF THESE BROKEN FAMILIES!!!!
What? Miscavige changed OT8? Oh, who’s the squirrel now? Hmm? lol…
Mike, your input on this is very important. Everyone who has been speaking against COS is brave and courageous. What an inspiration!.
To Anyone:
I had been checking out some of COS “Ads” and Statements with the photos they have been using. They use a lot of photo’s over and over again around world. They really do use false information with their marketing attempts to promote scientology. I guess they figure people in another country won’t know how to fact check something in another country. If you don’t have special software or apps to use while checking those images or other marketing they do world wide, just use the “search google image” option on google browser and you can find a lot of stories world wide. That is the easiest option anyone without any special ability or software can do.
Mike, I would like to wish you and your family a very Happy New Year!
Thank you for what you, Leah and all the rest are doing to shed some important light on
the cult of Scientology. Too many lives are at risk, too many people being harmed.
I think there was a time when it was possible, before people found out what LRH really believed. When I started, there were several orthodox Jews on course, and I had met at least one practicing Protestant who was part-time staff. The cross, a typical Catholic cross with starburst that I believe LRH said he found in the desert southwest, was definitely stolen or “chosen” for its symbolic purposes, then redefined for PR.
Besides believing that “there was no Christ”, that He was some sort of stick-figure, representative “everyman” (you can hear the audio on YouTube), I also read about old OT VIII containing a description of Christ as a “pedophile and lover of men”. Was it simply removed from the new materials, or was it in fact not true that it was included? I’ve heard that Juliette Lewis considers herself a Christian, as well as a Scientologist. If this is true, I assume she will run into a dilemma at some point, if she has not already.
Happy New Year to you, Mike, and best wishes for 2017.
Paladin: “Besides believing that ‘there was no Christ’, that He was some sort of stick-figure, representative ‘everyman’ (you can hear the audio on YouTube), I also read about old OT VIII containing a description of Christ as a ‘pedophile and lover of men’.”
Yes, they are contradictory. This is why I believe that where Hubbard stated “there was no Christ” it had the meaning shown in brackets:
“The man on the cross – there was no Christ [in the implant] – but the man on the cross is shown as everyman, so of course each person seeing a crucified man has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man.”
In other words, in the implant there was a man on the cross, which didn’t represent Christ but everyman.
In the OT VIII bulletin, Hubbard did put down the religion of Christianity in that he indicated it was being used by the powers-that-be to keep people in line. And yes, he also called Jesus “a lover of boys and men,” but in other places he spoke postively of him.
That said, Mike makes a number of valid and points on the blog post.
Edit – I meant “valid and SIGNIFICANT points.”
Interesting, could be, but when I listened to the audio, it didn’t sound like Ron meant “in the implant”, but rather “there was no Christ”, as if the idea of Christ was a fabrication.
Yes, there are contradictory points, but Ron seemed to shift viewpoints on certain things over time and change his mind, which he had a right to do, but I assume since OT VIII was the latest, that takes precedence over his earlier opinions. As has been mentioned by others above, in the same material Ron refers to himself as “Lucifer”, meaning “light bringer” in his mind, but that’s really an occult misunderstanding of how the term is used in the Old Testament (morning star). If those materials are actually his writing, it is illuminating. I agree, Mike was right to bring up valid points about this subject.
And that’s exactly where you run into the mindfuck that is at the core of $cn! Elron said tons of stuff that contradicted other things that he’d said. He was also not always clear about exactly what he meant. And at other times he was just plain wrong, based on the objective facts. None of that can be discussed in $cn; if you do you will first be sent to re-study your materials and find YOUR confusion or MU. And if you continue to persist in in insisting that Elron was unclear or contradictory or – Sweet Xenu NOOOO,- wrong entirely, then you non-conforming square peg ass is going to be pounded into a round hole or you will be shown the door…no exceptions.
Elron had a right to change his mind and shift his opinion on things, that’s for sure; but it was a right that he did not extend to others, which is why it’s accurate to describe $cn as an absolutist, literalist and fundamentalist religion.
Hubbard was a pathological liar and, as such, lied so much that all he could do was lie even more to cover up his earlier lies when he was pinned. $camology is a cult and a money gobbling machine for the maniac that runs it now. Although the one difference between Hubbard and Miscavige is that Hubbard wasn’t backwards at being forward, where Miscavige runs and hides from scrutiny.
All good points, Paladin.
Yes, in gnostic teachings, Lucifer means “morning star” or “bringer of light” or wisdom. And Ron did say that scientology is a gnostic religion. He believed that Christianity was used to keep people from discovering the knowledge of gods – which the gnostics also believe, from what I have read.
Marildi, with all due respect, how did L. Ron Hubbard know what was in the ‘implants’? How did he know there was a man on a cross? How did he obtain personal knowledge of this? How did he come to the knowledge that there were such things as implants? Has anyone ever seen an implant? Has an implant ever been proven? Do you, yourself, actually believe the things that LRH put forth as truth, to be in fact, true? Is it possible that having believed in this for such a long time, you are unable to re-examine your beliefs now… because you are unsure of what you would replace these beliefs with if you do decide they are not based in fact? I am being very sincere with this question.
Marildi, where did LRH say Jesus “was a lover of men and boys”? Don’t say you’ve fallen for the OT8 spoof as well? I don’t recall that from any LRH materials (apart from the OT8 Jesus Lucifer made-up nonsense).
Hubbard wasn’t the slightest bit conceited was he?
He was a paragon of virtue…
And where do think the sun rose in the morning of Scientology?
Thank you Mike.
Based on the above quotes of what LRH stated ,he will be classified – in Scientology terms – as individuated. He was not part of humanity, his community, nor anything else. He considered himself the ‘only one’ even amongst other scientologists who dared to think differently than what he demanded.
An individuated person – again, scientology scripture – has overts as supported by his constant running away, hiding, paranoia, etc.
But he was surely Machiavllic with his acceptable truths, which eventually led many of us to depart this fundamentalist system and cult.
Brian, as one sincere seeker to another, here’s my New Year’s gift to you:
Go to brontebaxter.wordpress.com, and read the article entitled, “Blowing the Whistle, Chapter One — the Hidden Agenda of Mantra Meditation,” then any of the other articles there that interest you.
That is an awesome article. Thanks for posting the link.
Still avoiding the question. Geeze, can’t you guys make me wrong!
I do however appreciate the consistency of avoidance. It’s instructive to all these new folks.
So once again I ask you Marildi:
You said it was a fact that a few people have said they attained stable exterior on new OT8.
Find them and lets do a test.
If you continue making my question something wrong with me, I will have to conclude you are incapable of moving through the prison of belief.
So this is my last response to you guys.
And for BTW, there are many watching and reading.
This is your chance to prove the standard ness of the tech.
But you will not. And you will prove me right once again.
So let’s make it short and sweet:
I wish you guys all the love and joy that life can bring. May this year be the best ever for you and those you love ❤️
Happy New Year my dear Marildi and My Two Cents. Thank you so much for our spirited discussions.
May you find the spiritual peace and love you seek. May that love and joy be unconditional!!
Brian: “If you continue making my question something wrong with me, I will have to conclude you are incapable of moving through the prison of belief.”
The thing “wrong” with you is that you are engaging in logical fallacy. It’s illogical to conclude that because I said I have read comments by people who made a certain claim, that this now means I have to produce those people and get them to do a test – in order to prove I am “capable of moving through the prison of belief.”
There’s really no sense in discussing anything with you if you are going to take such an irrational position. And in any case, we both had our say already on this particular subject.
I sincerely wish you a Happy New Year too, Brian. Peace. 🙂
Let’s be honest with each other here for the New Year! Almost everyone I know who got into $cn when I did was there for the promised OaTy super powers and to achieve stable exteriorization with full perceptics, including me. Weren’t you there for the very same reason, all you Indie believers? Be honest, wasn’t that what really captured your imagination and fueled your fantasies back in the days of your youth when $cn was all new and sparkly for you?
I hung in there for years, waiting to meet someone who could actually demonstrate their OaTy powers…just like the old grade chart said. I very logically reasoned that if folks that had completed and attested to reaching the tippy top of the grade chart (OaTy 7, at that time), then they should be able to demonstrate the “abilities gained” at that level.
Now, don’t get me wrong here, I wasn’t looking for a “hole” in $cn’s belief system so I could dismiss it; I very much wanted it to be true. Trouble was, I never met a single individual who could demonstrate those very desirable super powers, and I asked many, and observed many more. Maybe it’s just me and my pesky habit of insisting upon seeing objective proof when evaluating objective claims, but the fact that no one (let me repeat that for emphasis, NO ONE!) else that I’ve heard from has either. Factually, they don’t appear to exist. Either that or their what we might call “shy super powers” which can’t be demonstrated on cue, merely for show.
That easily observable fact was hard for me to explain away in my mind and I guess you could say that it took seed at that point to grow on its own over time. The other interesting and closely related observation that I made then was that all these other $cilons around me seemed to have reached a silent consensus among themselves not to discuss this huge and, seemingly, catastrophic glitch in the $cn matrix. I felt like the odd man out and quickly stuffed that feeling, then tried to distract myself from the involuntary observations that I was having about what a failure to attain the promised gains that these perfectly imagined sublime states meant for me personally, as well as for Elron’s claim of The Tech’s 100% efficacy when standardly applied..
There were other factors that led me to part company with the cult not that long after I realized that I’d likely never meet a real OaTy, let alone become one. To be honest, it was a real, true and deep desire which I’d once believed completely possible. To give up that belief and the certainty that came with it wasn’t easy. It took a few years after I left the cult to fully accept that the upper bridge was concocted straight out of Elron’s very fertile, but deeply troubled mind and has no basis in objective reality whatsoever.
If that’s an incorrect conclusion, then I will be more than fine to learn that my dream (all of our dreams) really is possible…just sho me da proof 😉
I agree with you Harpoona, I don’t think anyone has obtained ‘superhuman’ abilities through the OT levels, and furthermore, I don’t think people should be striving to do this, instead we should be working on our innate ‘human’ abilities, including emotions. Instead of stifling emotions as LRH mandated (no case on post) and (achieve tone 40 etc.) and so forth, I think we as humans should be working on ‘humanizing’ ourselves to the best of our abilities. Trying to become more empathetic, more caring, generous, kind, loving… instead of suppressing our feelings as LRH instructed. LRH was a suppressive person when it comes to feelings.
I have read the things that people attribute to OT powers and I’ve experienced them myself, never having practiced Scientology. I’ve at times been super-attuned to someone, had a sense of intuition very sharply, could predict something that would happen and it did, felt out of my body, felt in harmony with someone or something, could perceive extra-well, and yes… even found an elusive parking space when I put my mind to it.
But these things all occur naturally, and at certain times in life, and I don’t think it’s wise to try to bring them on… like someone who takes drugs like cocaine often because they want a ‘good feeling’ all the time, so they achieve this un-naturally which in the long run ruins your health as it depletes your body of it’s natural serotonin release and similar factors. (To simplify it to a ridiculous degree). Let your body and mind function as designed, and focus on becoming a better human, not ‘super-human’ at the cost of your humanity.
Yes! Yes…this!
I got in as an adult, college over, working actively for several years in my profession. I did not get in for OATY. Actually hadn’t heard of it. I got in because I met a lovely young woman who was the most peaceful being I’d ever met. I wanted that peace. It took me many years, long out of scn, but I finally achieved it. What I *did* learn in scio was that everything I achieved I did on my own. My cognitions were MINE, not LRH’s, the auditor’s nor that of the C/S. I did actually go up through Oaty 7 and found it interesting and useful. However, if I had had to pick and choose the most powerful for me, it would be Power Processing. What I learned there I’ve kept ever since. What was it? None of your damned business. This constant demand for “proofs”, based on what currently passes for “science”, will never be achieved. We are talking here about spiritual growth, not party tricks. I never got in nor looked for flying through the sky. I did, though, become much more aware of others, how they felt, what they were seeking. I discovered what LOVE really means and achieved *that* ability. Life changing? Bet your bippy! Do I care whether someone else thinks about my gains? Not a whit. (For years, while in, I advised others to keep their wins/gains to themselves as they had nothing to prove.
I left when *I* decided that there was nothing further for me in scio and saw the direction in which it was obviously turning. I saw raw criminality, the hiding and coverups of evil actions. The utter grasping for Power Over Others. I left and never looked back, taking with me the stuff I found which worked. Such things as the TRs. (They are not anything to do with hypnotism!) I helped others get out and am still in touch with a new OT7. He’s unaware I’m out and we simply don’t discuss scio. But we go back a long way. And he’s a great guy.
So I have no huge bone to pick with LRH, no matter how much he’s done or lied. It worked for me in most areas and for those I’m grateful. In any case, my belief is that they’re finished as far as any real development is concerned. Those still in will either get out or remain in until death comes. Their choices.
Mike, I thank you for all you’ve done and your obvious high level of personal integrity. We may have disagreed on a few things over the years, but I’ve always had a high regard for you personally.
Happy and healthy 2017 to all here!
Brian, I’ve said this elsewhere, but here it is again. Maybe you’ll get it this time.
The basic methodology of Scientology uncreates what a person has created that is holding him back. But there is a lot of “stuff” to be uncreated, and it’s complex. Ron made a lot of progress towards handling it, but there was just too much for any one person to research in one lifetime. And he made some mistakes, especially on the organizational side.
As a result, the subject does create significant gains for most people when applied correctly, but it doesn’t work on everyone, and it falls short of achieving the superhuman states we naively hoped would be available to us this lifetime.
But the glass is not empty. It’s half full. Ron is gone, but he left us with something we can build on. It’s now up to us to somehow continue developing the subject outside the Church, as certain individuals have actually been doing.
This is the truth above the level of “prove it or go home.”
Golly, Brian, I’m disappointed and a little hurt. I gave you a very nice New Year’s present, but you haven’t thanked me for it, or maybe even opened it. How come, buddy?
Well, I know you’ve been busy, so here it is again.
Go to brontebaxter.wordpress.com, and read the article entitled, “Blowing the Whistle, Chapter One — the Hidden Agenda of Mantra Meditation,” then any of the other articles there that interest you.
And do feel free to forward the link to any and all other seekers you may know. Truth is for the multitudes, not just the elite.
To understand why I don’t end this very spiritual comment with “namaste,” read the article.
I will, however, say “you’re welcome.”
hmm… you dislike people saying negative things about your ‘religion’ yet do the exact same thing to Brian, and in a sneering, mean tone, is that nice? In fact your whole personality through your written words drips with condensation. It’s uncomfortable reading your posts. If this is what Scientology does to a person’s personality, I’ll pass.
T.J. “you dislike people saying negative things about your ‘religion’ yet do the exact same thing to Brian, and in a sneering, mean tone, is that nice?”
No, he dislikes people saying INACCURATE or UNTRUTHFUL things about Scientology. As for “negative things” about it, he has commented on them himself, numerous times. And what you see as sneering or mean, I see as matching Brian’s tone and flow.
Btw, has it never occurred to you to comment on Brian’s incessant badgering of My Two Cents and myself and, in my case, Brian’s continuous attempts to bully? He ignores the fact that I’ve posted comments on the serious mistakes LRH made, but I’m not negative enough, or joften enough, for him. His basic flow is – “Prove you’re with us by showing how much you hate.” Doesn’t that sound like some junior high gang member – or cult member? Ironic as that is.
TJ, Brian has criticized my religion hundreds of times. I’ve criticized his only once, and then via an article written by someone else, that I actually found very applicable to my own history in Brian’s religion before I found Scientology. Read the article. It’s very interesting.
As for my “sneering, mean tone,” yes, I used that tone this time and I think one time before. But Brian, Wynski, and several others have used it routinely and repetitively for years.
Likewise for the issue of condescension. These guys are insufferably condescending.
So your complaint seems quite unfair.
Ok, My 2 Cents, thank you for your reply. I appreciate the fact that you agreed with me about the tone of your comment. I do respect a person who is honest and able to admit something even when it isn’t to their benefit. So you have my respect for that.
I understand that you see other’s comments in a certain way, I don’t see it quite the same way, but I understand why you do.
This blog, Mike Rinder’s, is in my opinion the best Scientology discussion board, mainly because he allows a lot of freedom of speech and differing opinions, and because for the most part, people tend to be respectful of others views, and do not often resort to name-calling or other immature behavior. But, as with all discussions, not everyone is going to agree with everyone else, and the thing I need to work on is not expecting commenters to follow a standard of behavior that I personally want to see upheld. I am not the blog police. So, it looks like I’ve said quite enough for now.
Marildi, you are extremely loyal to those in your group, and never waiver in their defense, so a person who has you for a friend is lucky.
Very nice comment, T.J.
And thanks for the compliment. Based on this one post alone, I’m sure you make a good friend, too.
The difference My Two Cents is I do not mind you criticizing my practice. I am completely ok with it,
I have no need to defend it or sell it.
You can call Yogananda a poop head and it phases me not a bit.
I’ll just say thank you for sharing.
But if something did offend me, I would not assign you the blame for it.
If I have an internal reaction to defend myself, that is my cause, my responsibility. It has nothing to do with you.
You cannot offend me because I have no need to be understood and agreed with regarding my practice.
And because I am the sole director of what happens in mi cabasa, I define how I perceive my experience.
I welcome out right attacks. They afford me. The opportunity to see where my flaws lie.
So I win either way. Agree with me and I am a happy. Disagree and attack my practice and I have something to learn. That Is, if I do get a reaction.
This practice is also the key to a successful marriage.
Not so with Scientologists. Scientologists are trained to attack critics.
It’s what Ron did. And since Ron is the teacher.
It’s what Scientologists do.
I have been taught by the masters of the east to be even minded with my enemies and nay sayers.
It takes more inner power, more cause over mental matter energy space and time to be at rest internally when others are stuck in defense, retaliate and make wrong.
I’m not always expert at it. But it is my value, my practice, my Dharma.
Also, mantra yoga is not my practice.
And…… yoga meditation is not a religion, not a belief system. It is a practice.
Have no religion. But I respect and honor them all.
Well………..those that don’t kill people and create black ops intel dumpster divers.
Brian, the brontebaxter article isn’t just for mantra yoga practitioners. Whatever type of yoga you do, you should find the article interesting. I’d actualy like to know your take on it. Did you read it?
Hey My Two Cents, Yes I read it. I gave some talks at TM group in LA. The David Lynch Foundation. I gave a talk on Meditation.
I know some folks from there who’s practice is really outside the group.
These folks practice on their own and are not too connected to the group.
I am the same. Groups, all groups can get into group think. Even mine, Self Realization Fellowship. But I have found that with all the flaws of my group it is less dogmatic than any group that has crossed my investigations.
I am not quite sure why you wanted me to read this.
I am not much concerned with groups and outside validation and group bonding anymore.
My guru has taught me that anything I am looking for is within myself.
I have my techniques, I practice them and the sky is the limit.
Why did you want me to read this? What was your intention?
One more thing:
I can feel this way about my group, Self RealizationnFellowship, not go to church, not want to be part of the group and still be welcomed and loved by my friends in the group when I do attend group functions.
That is called freedom.
I can even be critical of my group. One time I was highly critical of some organizational thing and one of the monks of the order, the most senior monk, agreed with me.
So even within my group, free thinking is allowed with management.
That is because freedom and authentic thinking is a virtue taught.
I can’t think of any Real Religions well maybe Buddhist don’t know much about them that asking Questions would be frowned upon,how can we grow,learn if we don’t ask but as for Scientology the very ppl who claim there to help the world how would that work Don’t ask questions & pretty much don’t worry,care about others asking about them,Caring starts at Home.
Terri: Buddhism is not a religion, has never claimed to be.
Uht Oh… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
…. “Buddhism is a religion and dharma that encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and spiritual practices largely based on teachings attributed to the Buddha. Buddhism originated in India sometime between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE, from where it spread through much of Asia, whereafter it declined in India during the middle ages. Buddhism is the world’s fourth-largest religion, with over 500 million followers or 7% of the global population, known as Buddhists.”
My two cents: In my day, you could go to a wog church and still be a Scientologist. One of our auditors was a weekly-go-to-mass Catholic. Since most of the Scienos I knew weren’t OTIII or higher, there was no written rules or advice against going to a Christian church or synagogue.
HOWEVER, as one progresses deeper and deeper into the culture of an org, religious participation outside of the CoS becomes cumbersome to justify–especially if you’re supposed to be doing bulk mail or your stats are down or you’re in a lower condition. I can’t imagine how SO staff would explain taking 2 hours off to go to church. You’d be accused of having “other fish to fry.”
Great article Mike. One that you should post in the list of “must read” articles. No other practices or religions are allowed even though they say they are (lie). I saw a show on TV called “The Secret” taken from the book of the same name. I got sent to Ethics and the MAA told me and showed me “in writing” from someone in the church that we are not to watch or read “The Secret” as it is “Other Practices” and diverts people off of their Bridges and that they could be harmed and die if diverted off their Bridge. Translation: we are worried that you won’t spend all your money in OUR Coffers if you do the Secret or other practices, so stop it right now and give all your money to us, and only us.
Oh my… to expose the world of subterfuge as a means to an end. Interesting direction Mike and it will break “new ground,” for many not so indoctrinated into Scientology’s methods of operating. Even with that said many Scientologists have no idea Hubbard said such things, irrelevant of the context. Ripping away stable data sure does create quite an effect though and it may be a good thing at this time. But I do remember seeing my first bullet riddled body, changes you forever. The defense one acquires against that sort of assault to the senses is the real worry though. It comes and goes but eats at you forever.
I imagine pretty soon there will be hot contention if the R6 bank exists at all. At what point does one not invade all there is to invade. I’m just saying to stray too far from exposing criminal abuses to a raw attack comes at a price. The war against lies, has many fronts, many yet to be realized. Hubbard did however, invite the world to destroy him by writing the KSW series and his delusions of religious grandeur are now coming home to roost.
There’s only so many shock tactics in the arsenal, good luck with this direction. People still smoke and drink to excess despite the evidence and wars rage on despite the truth of why they are being fought. That famous saying in the Vietnam war era “Apathy Kills,” applies to this day and it’s really, really hard to get people to change or see that. The sooner Miscavige is thrown in jail & the organisation dissolved the better for everyone. Then the academics can re-educate us all.
Does the R6 bank, delivered to us via the Incident One implant, exist? Well, over 2000 years ago the pre-Christian Gnostics taught that it did. The implanter was called the “Demiurge.” BTs and their superiors were called “archons.”
Oh yes, this is quite the subject. From those that deny the holocaust ever existed to the provable lies of the Scientologist to the beliefs of the Christian scientists and Muslims alike, boy what a ripe field the human mind presents. If it was possible to eliminate the abuses under the guise of religion what a different world we would have today. The R6 bank… interesting way of looking at it.
I’m serious. The details of the Gnostic Demiurge’s implant were in all important respects identical to Incident One.
My 2 Cents, I think you mean Incident 2, don’t you?
No, he means Incident 1, the one with the cherubs blowing trumpets. I don’t think the Gnostics said anything about DC-8 space planes and movie theaters implanting spirits.
The Gnostics did say something about “implanted spirits.”
I’m not drawing conclusions or not taking you at your word. If it does coincide, it does!
There’s a simple conclusion that can be drawn from this: both the Demiurge “implant” and Incident 1 are total bullshit.
“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?”
See what you can step in when you not looking…
So, that’s sufficient corroboration, in your mind, to believe Elron’s outlandish, unsupported and unverifiable account of all of time, even before the Big Bang?
Just for a change of pace, why not try to explain some of this wild speculative Creation myth story telling without using scientologese? Pretend for a bit that concepts like “R6 bank” and “implants” have no actual basis in reality outside of the Elron’s very imaginative mind. Try your best to reconcile his time line of the universe’s existence (trillions of years) with the numerous line of mutually corroborating evidence that the universe we know came into existence less than 20 billion years ago.
In fact, take any of the assertions that Elron framed as facts and try your best to demonstrate their objective basis AS facts in a way that’s does not require us to engage in circular thinking, where other unproven assertions are used to support them. In order to believe in any of that you must first (and always) suspend any critical reasoning thought processes and never ever ask yourself questions like, “What would falsify this particular be true?”
Always looking for things to support what you already believe in just won’t cut it here when we dig into $cn claims and statements of supposed facts. There is no good reason to believe that any of Elron’s “stuck in 50’s” space opera crap was anything but more science fiction! And there are many good reasons to believe it was make believe that got re-packaged as purported fact and sold to everyone gullible enough to swallow it whole.
Oh I hear you. You know, after suffering over a decade of abuse, loosing lots of friends and more money than I care to think about or even admit to myself I do allow myself the right to indulge and do whatever I like with Scientology. I do not however, encourage others to do the same as I do or think but suggest they are free to do as they wish. My mind is pretty much fried with other fish anyway.
Happy New Year!
Harpoona: “Try your best to reconcile his time line of the universe’s existence (trillions of years) with the numerous line of mutually corroborating evidence that the universe we know came into existence less than 20 billion years ago.”
In my lifetime, I’ve already seen 3 trillion, 8 trillion and 13 trillion stated by “science”. My own sense is that no one actually has a real clue and that it really has no importance. And since there’s also recent scientific talk about multi universes, none of it has any relevance to living in 2017! LOL
I started using a form of meditation at work to lower stress levels. Basically you sit quietly in your chair, with your eyes closed, and breathe in and out slowly for 10 mins. I mentioned this on my Facebook page and I was immediately attacked for promoting Psych stuff and unfriended. I also mentioned how valuable going for a walk and being mindful of my surroundings over my lunch hour was. This was equally labeled as a crime against Scientology.
Just when I thought it couldn’t get more insane, you post and it pops my bubble, Ryan. Seriously, taking a walk is supressive? As is breathing in and out? Whew! The crazy just got crazier. What’s next, looking out the window on a nice sunny day? Nice post, Ryan!
It was surprising. Possibly it was because I used words “mindful” and “meditative.” I was attacked for promoting Psych techniques. It is clear that, unless there is an LRH reference attached, it is considered a crime.
The person who attacked me was very active on Facebook and LOVED to use the cute emotion emojis in her posts. She was none to happy to learn that these were created for Facebook by two UC Berkeley Psychology professors to help make Facebook posts more social.
If you take a walk and you’re mindful of your environment then you’re doing a Locational on yourself. You need another person to say, “Look at that ….” You’re a squirrel.
I was once told that doing a locational or touch assist on yourself was okay as well as a simple mindfulness process of being aware of your breath in and out.
I never asked for a reference but then as I long considered myself as “fence-sitting” scn, I have never been on board with much of this “other practices” stuff either.
In being aware of your breath to calm one’s self, you actually breath as opposed to unconsciously holding your breath when anxious. Yeah, that’s okay n my book 😉
Too funny.
Ryan,
So much for standard tech in the Church. “Take a Walk” is a process recommended by LRH in “Problems of Work.”
Maybe if you had said ‘I close my eyes and think about how handsome and wonderful LRH and COB were/are’ you would have been awarded the next Freedom Medal of Wonderfulness
I will never understand why people insist in believing and following what they are being told or what they read in a book written by another man, the Bible ,Koran and any others so called religious books all are someone personal idea on the subject which they claim to be an expert on. No man has yet to be able to prove what ever has been written in any of these books is true Why would you think Hubbard found the solution to mankind. According to David Miscavige Hubbard did not die he just left that body that he used to get around with and Scientologist believe that crap if he really wanted to impress his followers and charge more money he should come back and tell every one what he found on the other side. I am not a religious person but before I spend a dime on some ideology I need proof so far it has worked out for me I do not have to look over my shoulders I am FREE
Well said Mike .. the implanted cross in every mind as R6 symbol means what? It does not work if it was ever done .. nothing happens if you show somebody a cross .. it is the same with a vulcano .. nothing happens when you show a painted picture of a vulcano .. all in all it was an extremely unworkable implant ..
Somewhere in his time said LRH: An positive implant would never have an effect about the mind and the person .. maybe, but never harmful ..
The only way to manipulate a mind is to cause confusion or protest .. first is to degrade stable data and put in wrong or false or no data .. which goes to Hawaii, because it did not exist 75 Mio ago .. which is no data .. second to it is protesting against not wanted services .. which is an ARC break affair ..
As I said at the beginning here in this blog .. everybody will hang up in protest and confusion .. because it is the EP of the Bridge ..
Scientology, where hopes for a better life for yourself and others are glibly agreed with in the form of love bombing to facilitate the extraction of money from your wallet, leading to an imperceptible and subtle indoctrination that sticks you like glue from the authoritarian dictates of a garrulous impersonator, and where you are further bilked by sundry hucksters, resulting in total dependence, loss of family, bankruptcy and in some cases, suicide. Call it by its real name: The Church of Spiritual Deception.
L Ron Hubbard was a criminal con man who convinced his followers he was SOURCE. Anyone believing in Xenu, body thetans and clusters – and that you have to audit them off to “get rid of your reactive mind” – has delusions of grandeur.
Wow. Way to educate new people to your blog or scientologists who didn’t arrive at the pennacle of spiritual enlightenment.
This blog today does what Leah has been doing with her show, taking the “acceptable truths” (or outright lies) put out by the church and shining a light on the actual truth. It’s about time that scientologists arrived in this age of enlightenment, this information age.
If scientologists want to save their religion they better get rid of david miscavige, admit the truth and see what rises from the ashes – if anything.
All I can say is thank you Mike Rinder. From my heart thank you.
It’s the reason I still come to these sites. To show how Hubbard booby trapped our reaches to other paths to spiritual living. To our relationships with that Benevolent Transcendent Reality.
L Ron Hubbard booby trapped us with his brilliant articulations, fashioned in fallacious scientism. With the effect of defining 10,000 years of wisdom on earth as the result of an electronic torture. That there is no workable truths in 10,000 years!
This is a crime of philosophy. A crime of the intellect. A crime of spiritual thought. A crime of religious thought.
A DEVIOUS CRIME OF HISTORY DESIGNED TO CUT OUR REACH TO OTHER SOURCES OF SPIRITUAL REFUGE WITH THE GOAL OF SECURING PAYING CUSTOMERS.
That is down right evil my friends.
In my heart, like a poem, I sense the great wise men and wise women of the ages are smiling down.
Finally, someone with clout, Mike friggn Rinder, reveals the selfish and dark insidious cloud that L Ron Hubbard put over:
The Buddha
Lord Jesus
Saint Francis
Rumi
Yogananda
Ramakrishna
Lord Krishna
Patanjali
Shankara and every wise sage throughout history.
Something was not right with Ron. His devious degenerate personality goes way beyond just assigning him a “just a human being with flaws”.
When I left Scientology and took up again my meditative practice, it took me years to uncover these nagging self doubts and self invalidations regarding God.
Because I agreed with these “only way” selfish, narcissistic and elitist views when such a young boy, it was difficult to extricate myself from these thoughts that were now part of my subconscious mind.
There was something devious about L Ron Hubbard.
Maybe we should have believed him when he assigned himself the monikers:
The Anti Christ Lucifer; on the original OT 8 course
And Prince of Darkness on one of his tapes.
If you think I am being too “out there” with these sentiments, just remember how Ron also defined the great Jesus in the original OT 8 course as a pedophile.
If that ain’t anti Christ I do not know anything.
There are many paths to spiritual freedom. L Ron Hubbard educated us to think they are the result of an implant.
And I say;
IT WAS L RON HUBBARD WHO WAS THE IMPLANTER
Hey, when you’re running a racket, you need some way to knock-out the competition. Obviously Hubbard was very insecure about the effectiveness of his technology, so much so that any other school of thought had to be branded “abberated” or “borne of an implant”.
Right on the money!
“Right on the money…” never a truer statement ever uttered, believed by Hubbard, Miscavige and Rockefeller alike. Splurge on it, can’t get enough of the stuff!
I’m sorry, but, it’s actually”…can’t get enough of that funky stuff.”
Thank God for Qual! All better now, tku!
It was just plain old not letting any competition happen. Can’t have anyone spending time and money on anything else but $camatology. Hell, you might meet your spouse at the church dance or cousin Hymie’s Bar Mitzvah. Or you might put some money in the collection plate. Hell, you might go down to the mosque and donate for the poor.
Every dollar that didn’t go Lron’s way. was in his mind a wasted dollar. That is what bothered him the most.
In addition to this excellent article, Mike, it’s worth mentioning the Sources of Trouble (SOT), also known as A to J. While it may be perceived as a means to patrol the riff-raff, in actual practice they are used to shape and mould the thinking of parishioners. No one wants to be labeled a SOT (which becomes a harmonic of an SP Declare).
HCO PL POLICIES ON PHYSICAL HEALING, INSANITY AND SOURCES OF TROUBLE states this little gem:
“To summarize sources of trouble, the policy in general is to cut communication, as the longer it is extended the more trouble they are. I know of no case where the types of persons listed above were handled by auditing or instruction.”
I suppose this is yet another form of Disconnection, yet has nothing directly to do with Suppressive Persons.
From my experience, fledgling Scnists who still adhere to other religious beliefs and practices were often shown this reference and asked if they were “open minded”. Of course, given the tone of this policy letter, no one wishes to be categorized as A to J; most quickly shape up and get with the program.
You can find the full reference here:
http://suppressiveperson.org/1964/10/27/hcopl-policies-on-physical-healing-insanity-and-sources-of-trouble/
The one and only person that I ever tried to get into $cn was my younger brother who, after completing the comm course, wasn’t all that wowed. They cut him loose as being “open-minded,” which struck me as strange at the time because that term still had a positive connotation to me.
Everyone who doesn’t chump for the con early on is cut loose so as not to contaminate the other marks who, Xenu help us, must never be allowed to actually question or remain skeptical…those folks need to go, and they need to go NOW!
I’m so glad that my brother never drank the Kool-Aid, but he always looked at me funny after I got out of the cult, like he was wondering, “Wtf were YOU thinkin’ there!?” But being my younger brother, he couldn’t bring himself to actually put it in such bold terms.
I don’t know the purpose of this, except to discredit the Scientology technique again! I thought you were fighting against Miscavige! But you are doing like him destroying Scientology.
if you ever studied Class 8 tapes, you would know that grades are necessary for someone to have a reality about OT 3 materials.
You surely have by-passed charge about this as a pc but also as an auditor!
Anyway I wish you a happy new year !
Wow — the number of people coming out to try to “defend the tech” has increased of late. Are you saying that by quoting the words of L. Ron Hubbard I am “discrediting scientology technique”? Have I misquoted something?
I think Mike you have struck a nerve. I sense that there will be a plethora of Indies coming here to defend Ron.
I think they are in communication with each other and feel it their duty to protect:
MAN’S ONLY HOPE
MAN’S LAST CHANCE
MAN’S ONLY WORKABLE BLA BLA
THE ONLY ONE TRUE SCIENCE OF LIFE AND THE MIND
They will start posting because they feel that you, Mike Rinder, is allowing diverse views that may inflict damage on man’s only hope.
There are factions in the field who seek to recreate the Church of Scientology. Some post here to try to keep the good name of Hubbard alive so they can acquire new customers in order to save the ?
My advise to those folks is there is a website that agrees with you. It’s Milestone 2.
They are trying to re create the church.
They also do not allow any dissent or criticism of Scientology or Ron.
You guys have an uphill climb.
It may take some years of being out of the bubble.
The wog world can be a place of great healing. I wish you all well and healing.
It takes time.
I’m a total realist in the way I live my life and how I look at the “tech”. I also follow that if a person wants to believe in the tech – more power to them as long as they leave the disconnection/fair game/enforced abortions/destroying families/physical abuses/RPF/lower conditions out of it.
I just posted this little comment on another site so I thought it would be quite apropos to include it here. It is a bit out of context but demonstrates my view on this tech that I was introduced to from birth in 1953…..Or they want to be like LRH and get so OT they wont have motorcycle accidents, constantly berate people, get bursitis or die of a stroke (or was it a heart attack), while on psyche drugs, without family, living in a motorhome hidden away. Yeah – that is what I want in life!
And I can add to that my mother-in-law spending her total adult life and going thru OT V dying from a brain tumor at 58, or my father who indoctrinated me to Dianetics and spent his entire life and every cent he made dying at 72 from cancer. Doing Solo Nots all the way to his grave. I just read in the book Fair Game that Yvonne Gilham also died of a brain tumor around the age of 58.
I’m not trying to destroy the tech – just stating how I perceived the results. And I’m still waiting for someone to make an ash tray levitate.
Mike is being far nicer than I am regarding this subject. He is just quoting LRH’s written words.
I always say though that if my disconnected son comes back and wants to practice the tech without the evil ethics policies and acts, I wont stop him.
Well said clearly pissed off! Thanks for those thoughts.
You are posing an interesting debate here if the defense of the tech should be viewed as a generalized bad thing or more selective. Does it have be black or white I wonder? On the one hand as an auditor I have witnessed certain benefits by my actions and to this day have noticed no negative or ill effects from running something like the grades or handling an upset or two, in fact they could be considered beneficial. It sure saved my butt from going off the deep end. On the other hand I disagree with NOTs in all it’s forms and OT3 is not a Bridge level imo and could be dispensed with or should never have been never introduced in the first place. We only have Hubbard’s word for it there is an engram of such destructive capabilities in the minds of all earthlings. Maybe “OT3” should be just a side story or adjunct of R6 procedures. Perhaps because it was “discovered later” than the wrapping up of the Bridge to prompt KSW1 in 1965 Hubbard had to save face somehow or he simply went wacko?? Time sequence out logic maybe? R6 by the way I found to be the best thing I did in Scientology. R6EW was straight fun imo. The CC didn’t cave me in as far as I can tell.
Yet, as a staff member for a decade I learnt to despise that organisation with a vengeance. Upon being more educated by this site (which was up until recently was rather impartial to commenting on the tech but rather focused on the polices and the abusive behavior of the organisation) I have pieced together my own picture of the guy called Hubbard. He certainly left a lot to be desired in respect of being a leader and is guilty of not applying his own so called wisdom, aka tech/policy. (He sure said/wrote one thing but did another, and he overran his own auditing to hell and back. He was not much of a product or example of the Bridge was he?) Which has rightfully or not resulted in Scientology operating as, becoming known as and being recognized as a scam. It developed into one of the more vicious cults to emerge in modern times.
Time will tell as it always does whether or not it’s a good thing to deny the world Scientology in all its forms. Early days… but new opinion leaders are emerging concerning Scientology with a lot of media clout for the masses to listen to.
However, there isn’t a snowflake’s chance in hell of the Scientology Organisation ever being corrected or reformed. Too many lawyers and too much money. It must be eliminated and by doing so it risks anything good in it will go down the gurgler too. I personally hope not, but public opinion and ridicule is a powerful thing.
I hear what you are saying about the tech possibly being useful.
Now, I am not a Scientologist or an auditor like you. I went to school to be a social worker and before I quit to do other stuff we talked about how therapy is done. When I hear you talking about auditing being useful but that it’s also possible to do wrong, it reminds me of the cautions we would get. That we were dealing with real people and they can be fragile and that therapy can be stressful when done wrong (and even when done right) and that we needed to be cautious because you could hurt people. That it requires a generosity of spirit to be mindful of the person sitting across from you.
I think that for people who don’t have any experience in the CoS it is very difficult to understand how this stuff works works and that if we want to help, we need to be good allies in much the same way that people are good allies to other communities. We need to not rush in and tell people what’s dumb and what’s not and how to fix stuff. We need to listen.
I know plenty of people who finished their Objectives, attested to Clear and went onto their OT Levels. Oops!
Slipped in the bs did we?
Come to Present Time Roger Martin – you are in an incident of long duration.
Yep, entirely correct. If people did not endure the insidious mental conditioning applied during the grades, it would be impossible for them to eventually “have reality” that Xenu delivered billions of aliens from other planets in DC8-shaped UFOs to Teegeeack and that the programming of the spiritual essence of those aliens is what ails mankind today. See, according to L Ron Hubbard, “reality is agreement” and it is that, entry-level Scientology lie which results in the conflating of objective reality with an implanted subjective experience. The end result is that people are manipulated into “having reality” on any aspect of Scientology tech as being anything other than a distraction from fraud.
I have tried to speculate what Scientology would be like without Xenu, OT3 & NOTs stuff.
Not an easy direction to contemplate but I don’t think it would have ended up quite the horror story it is today. Hubbard fucked up a good thing was my conclusion (way back in the mid to late 50s and into the early 60s he lit his own fuse with his policies). His personality simply got in the way and his obsessive war against anyone else devising another way of utilizing his so called technology and his perceived obsession of others trying to steal his venture. Nothing wrong imo with where he went in speculating life and the messes it creates but everything wrong with turning his ideas into a corporate affair and hence a money and power oriented belief system. And then he created a military based organisational rank structure to defend and run it – unfriggen believable! He created far too many opportunities of making enemies within his own ranks, let alone attacking the status quo of the extant authority. No wonder a hunk of his power base personal, and his own wife for heaven’s sake ended up in jail and him forever on the run from the law. Silly, silly man, he really blew it! And the whole time he exclusively blamed others for his troubles, the one thing he really has in common with Miscavige and that is the fundamental basis of his playbook.
Yawnalot, I agree with your analysis. I just want to take the next step, which is salvaging the good parts of the tech from the rubble created by the bad, leaving the organization in the graveyard with Miscavige, and carrying on with real research and development to create a post-Scientology subject that will be everything we hoped Scientology would be.
How many years do we need to discuss Ron’s flaws and the Church’s abuses before we get back on the purpose that got us into Scientology in the first place? Let’s start over without the bullshit, and do it right this time.
How many years do we need to discuss Ron’s flaws and the Church’s abuses before we get back on the purpose that got us into Scientology in the first place?
You don’t need to discuss it at all. You can get right back on purpose. Absolutely nothing is stopping you (or anyone). You have a safe environment created for you where RTC or CSI will not even sue you for using their trademarks and copyrights. You have those who take the brunt of their attacks to thank for that — most specifically including Marty Rathbun.
Go ahead and stop discussing anything you wish.
But I am going to keep going — exposing the lies, the fraud and the abuses until they are no more.
Me too Mike!! Thank you for Doing Something About It!
Outstanding comment, Mike.
+1000!
Happy New Year to you and your family. Thanks for everything you’ve done and continue to do. You’re making one hell of a difference.
Mike, I’m all for your keeping going on exposing the lies, fraud, and abuses until they are no more. Thank you for doing that. I’d just like to see a parallel expose of the workability and value of the good parts of Scientology outside the Church.
While it may not be your intention to influence people to believe that there is no significant good in the subject worth preserving and forwarding, that is the effect you are creating. You may view it as acceptable collateral damage, but I view it as unnecessary inhibition of basic purpose.
If someone like me or Marildi submitted a series of articles supporting the idea of there being something good in Scientology outside the Church, worth preserving and delivering, would you run them as you have Terra Cognito’s?
My Two Cents you can start your own pro Scientology blog.
You won’t find your sentiment or support for “lets get back to real Scientology” here.
Maybe you keep coming back here because there is something still for you to learn.
Maybe the seeker in you is seeking something.
My 2 Cents, I am pretty sure that if you can present EVIDENCE (first take a few college level courses in physical sciences to understand what constitutes evidence) of workability (as in it actually does what HE claimed it would do) of something Hubbard invented, you could probably get it published.
Without that, probably NOT.
Mike Rinder, here’s your TR-3:
If someone like me or Marildi submitted a series of articles supporting the idea of there being something good in Scientology outside the Church, worth preserving and delivering, would you run them as you have Terra Cognito’s?
Very much depends on content. I publish things I feel are interesting and which forward my general purpose. I think there is a good chance I would publish them as I think seeing things from different perspectives is healthy. I gave always supported (and continue to do so) Dani and Tami Lemberger and consider them gods friends. You and others are upset that I am biased against you. I try to be realistically objective but I am sure that is not possible, everyone is biased by their experiences. You want to give it a shot?
Mike Rinder: “You and others are upset that I am biased against you. I try to be realistically objective but I am sure that is not possible, everyone is biased by their experiences.”
Yes, sometimes it’s upsetting that, for example, you come down hard on Foolproof even though he is no worse than some of the posters of the opposite point of view – who are just as extreme, if not more so. It seems to me that you allow virtually all the anti-tech comments to go by, regardless of how irrational or outright false they may be – which I’m sure you are aware of when they are. I do give you credit, however, for handling a few posters here who were being overly abusive on a personal level, and I commend you for that. It goes to show that you are a leader and the one who sets the tone on your blog.
Having said all that, the main thing I wanted to say is that I honestly don’t know of another blog host who has come out with anything like what I quoted above. Even IF they are self-aware enough to see that they are biased (which is not the same as having a strong point of view) I don’t know of them being honest enough to admit it. So I say kudos to you! You are doing your best, and no one can ask more than that. On top of it, you’ve already achieved a lot with the “Mike and Leah Show,” as I like to call it. 🙂
Thank you, Mike. I will give it a shot as I have the time. I will also encourage Marildi and others to give a shot from their perspectives.
M2C, I can’t imagine what I would write a whole blog post about, but I would be happy to assist you if I can. I actually have experience in copyediting – not that you would need much, if any, but even the best writers don’t always catch their own errors. Things like typos, grammar, punctuation, etc. If at some point you want help with such, or with finding references or whatever, you can write me here: marildi(at)hushmail.me
My 2 cents, do it. That’s why I always say, take what you want and leave the rest. But then it’s not scientology, by definition, anymore.
Yep, I see what you mean but find it hard to agree. It should be borne in mind that there is nothing beneficial in Scientology which cannot be found elsewhere and which is also more effective, longer lasting, cheaper, and far, far safer. Best, I say, to avoid it all together.
On its own, the Xenu stuff is, pretty much, just another slice of Scientology crazy and not really that bad. Its usefulness from a critic’s perspective is that it (a) serves as an example of how pernicious the earlier processing is in terms of what it can do to a person’s mind that they end up believing it, and, (b), is a very valuable inoculation tool to prevent raw meat from ever wanting to pick up the hypno-cans in the first place.
When it comes to eliminating the really dangerous material from Scientology one could start with something like, say, the False Data Stripping tech. The whole SP/PTS Doctrine should also be removed if one is serious about eliminating abusive thought control measures from Scientology but then, of course, to do so would mean that what remains is not Scientology.
“See, according to L Ron Hubbard, “reality is agreement” and it is that, entry-level Scientology lie which results in the conflating of objective reality with an implanted subjective experience.”
Exactly right! As soon as you follow Elron down the “it’s only real if you believe it’s real” path, you’re well on your way to some pretty extraordinary anti-science views of the physical universe. You’re set up to take it on faith that all of these rocks and stars floating about just very solid considerations, really not essentially different than the mental mass you create with your thoughts!
There are many, many things that are true for you (like the law of gravity) whether you agree with it, or believe in it, or have any other kind of consideration or belief about it. In other words it has an objective reality that doesn’t depend at all on what your subjective thoughts are about it. Once you thoroughly confuse subjective beliefs with external objective reality, the $cn mindfuck is off to the races!
Yes Roger of course, because if you and the Church didn’t push the false narrative that only those “ready” to receive the ultimate truth should be exposed to “it”, then how else could the organization justify keeping it’s actual beliefs secret, and how else could they milk hundreds of thousands of dollars from each person, and how else could inflate the cost ( and therefore value) of the placebo drug known as the “OT Levels”?
Where is the conviction of your beliefs Roger? One man quoting LRH on a blog is destroying Scientology? Sheesh!
Aaron Smith-Levin, excellent point. Having milked the grades for everything I could get (I wasn’t paying for them myself as a staff member) and really getting a lot out of them (see my earlier comment on this post) and doing OT preps not once, but twice and STILL not agreeing with OT3 BS, the go-to excuse is “you weren’t set up for it”. What a lame excuse and one that is consistently used on anyone who disagrees. In fact, I KNEW these exact words would be brought up on this post. Because I’m OT, you see? 😉
Any religion and most all of them say the same thing, that proclaims that their way is the only way to spiritual freedom should raise the red flag. The only place you should look for freedom is inside yourself. Even LRH said it. Buddhism. was the closest to ‘his’ tech. If I’ve learned anything from my LRH experience, I’ve learned to NOT follow anyone. Look inside. Trust yourself that you can find the ‘way out’. Have faith, in yourself.
Roger Martin says: “I don’t know the purpose of this, except to discredit the Scientology technique again! I thought you were fighting against Miscavige! But you are doing like him destroying Scientology.”
Roger, if you would apply Study Tape 9 by just duplicating and understanding what Mike is really saying, and see past the buttons that you are allowing to be pushed on you by what he is saying, you would see the obvious purpose of what Mike is saying.
He is saying that it is a lie that one can be a Scientologist and also believe in and practice other religions at the same time; he is saying that Scientologists are not upfront about what they believe, because they believe that if they were upfront about it, that nobody (of very few people) would decide to become a Scientologist; and he is giving examples of things that LRH or wrote in order to illustrate his point.
And maybe you can suspect that Mike does not believe in the Scientology technique, since most people who do believe in the tech would not say the things he is saying. But if you really get what he is saying, you will see that he is not saying anything one way or the other about whether the technique does work or does not work, does benefit or does not benefit, etc. That is not the issue that he is addressing.
If you are going to dispute what he is saying, the least you should do is first duplicate and understand what he is saying, so you then have the possibility of making an intelligent discussion out of it.
Beautifully stated Dave Fagen.
Exactly, Dave Fagen.
Bad grammar, misuse of punctuation, and a plethora of exclamation points, just like every Scientology e-mail and promo from Thursday Funnies. There’s something about Scientology that inhibits the ability of a Scientologist to post in proper English.
Maybe regaining the ability to use proper English is part of the decompressing process.
Mike, I have a question for you & the folks, I am not, nor have I been a Scientologist. Having said that, Since the building is called a church, what is the doctrine of Scientology?? All churches have a doctrine. Thanks to you & Leah for exposing this cult. My husband & I are praying for safety for you & Leah & your crew as well as the former members & current members.
Hi Cathy, good question. The answer is not very straightforward. There is “public doctrine” and an “internal doctrine”. The two have very different purposes.
For example, a public doctrine may be The Creed of the Church of Scientology:
http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology/the-scientology-creeds-and-codes/the-creed-of-the-church.html
This is really for public consumption and is more of a public relations effort. Its all very rational and positive, and most would readily agree with these principles. However, internally, when dealing with long-time members, the Creed becomes rather meaningless.
At my trial (which excommunicated me), I attempted to use the Creed in my defense. I was laughed at.
The internal doctrine, some of which is included in this article, is much more secretive and is intended for members-only. This is a huge subject and too complex to detail here. Let’s just say, once you are “in the know”, when Hubbard lets his hair down and speaks “the truth”, you get the low-down on Scientology. This can include grand, galactic conspiracies, eternal battles between good and evil, control and subjugation of the masses, the fight for freedom and the return to our native god-like state.
Hope that helps to answer your question.
Thank you. I will check out the links.
Do not for a minute think that Scientology is anything other than a fraud. Dianetics, the precursor to Scientology, sprung out of an earlier fraud, known as the Allied Scientists of the World, L Ron Hubbard was running and very nearly got caught for. That was his first run-in with the FBI. Dianetics itself is also a fraud. L Ron Hubbard never carried out any research and nor did he, as he claimed, heal his war injuries using Dianetics. He lied about that, he knew he was lying, and his lies never stopped.
Its correct that Scientology has all sorts of “doctrine” but none of it is actually religious in nature because even that which appears religious is specifically designed to deceive. The entire idea that Scientology is a religion is a confection invented by L Ron Hubbard in order to make money via Scientology without having to prove a single claim made, to pay no tax on that money, to garner respectability, and to shelter a sophisticated criminal enterprise under the US Constitution’s First Amendment.
L Ron Hubbard made this clear several times. Before even writing Dianetics, L Ron Hubbard often stated that the only way to make a fortune was by starting a religion. However, L Ron Hubbard initially eschewed this option because he genuinely believed he could get away with calling his fraud a “science”. As late as 1953, L Ron Hubbard, in his book “The Creation of Human Ability” wrote ” . . . Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion . . . ” This approach didn’t work out in the end because Dianetics is so obviously unscientific. In fact, part of the reason Dianetics floundered was because scientists and other professionals shut him down. It was only then, when bankrupt and on the run again that he came up with the idea of “the religious angle”. It was then, in the inventing of Scientology with its past lives and thetans and cosmology, that L Ron Hubbard really began the protecting his fraud beneath the cloak of religion.
When L Ron Hubbard began in earnest to fabricate his “religious angle”, many, many of his followers objected. It resulted in the first major exodus of members. It took a long time for L Ron Hubbard to fully cover his fraud with the “religion angle” and it continued to annoy his followers. L Ron Hubbard had to console the membership angst with his “religion angle”. In his HCOPL 29 October 1962 – Religion (comment now excised from current OEC volumes) he wrote “. . . [Scientology] is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors . . . ”
And that’s correct. Scientology’s “religion angle” has always only ever been entirely a matter for its accountants and solicitors. Even today long-serving Scientologists don’t really believe Scientology is a religion. They know its a tax dodge and that it protects it from having to comply with all sorts of laws which would otherwise halt it in its tracks. Bear in mind also that Scientology is not considered a religion in many countries, particularly Russia, Germany, and France. If there are any nations on earth which can recognise a nascent anti-democratic totalitarian organisation it is those three. The US, on the other hand, has a deliberately weakened tax collecting authority and a bizarre attitude towards religion generally.
Ooops – meant also to specifically address this . . .
As early as 1950, BEFORE Ron said anything about it, Dianetic preclears began to run earlier similar incidents past the pre-natal area into past lives. That meant that we are spiritual beings who reincarnate. That’s how religion entered the subject. It was not fundamentally to avoid taxes and government regulation. Those factors were useful but came later.
This supports an axiom I discovered: If it ISN’T a LIE, then it ISN’T scientology.
I thought everyone knew that! Scientology = Lies! And Lies = Scientology. Simple, yes?
That’s harsh. I think it’s more fair to say: “Just because LRH said it, doesn’t mean it isn’t true.”
Ummmmm…I’ll stick with harsh. I’m good with that.
I prefer, “Much ado about nothing”
Meaning
A great deal of fuss over nothing of importance.
Origin
The phrase ‘much ado about nothing’ is of course from Shakespeare’s play – Much Ado About Nothing, 1599. He had used the word ado, which means business or activity, in an earlier play – Romeo and Juliet, 1592:
OSD, except when it comes to weed that is. 😉
The other Axiom I discovered is “If it is not Cruel and Inhumane, it just is NOT Scientology”
Truth Wognited!
Wow an excellent article Mike, you articulated all of this so very well. Needs to be made a MAJOR article for people who don’t understand Scientology and to understand what they “really” believe. This is all so very true and I should know having been brought up in Scn all my life. Most Scientologists celebrate Christmas but it is not in the religious sense whatsoever, it is just the fun of it and gift giving, you would never see any going into a church on Christmas morning or praying or anything like that. I grew up in South Africa where all government schools were Christian based (1960’s and 1970’s)and we would say the Lord’s Prayer every morning and have classes almost every day based on Christianity. As a child, my Mom would tell me to accept these classes as “fairy tales” and to not believe them.
You had a good mom. James Cavell’s, “A Children’s Story” is real eye opener on that subject. He wrote it after his daughter explained to him about her day at school. They even did a movie on it. Chilling stuff. I just expanded my personal belief that not only you should never take Scientology seriously but that now includes all religion. If it isn’t fun it isn’t worth the term religion. A God or philosophy that deals in lies and misery is no friend of mine.
I believe that our thoughts, words & actions, go out to the universe, and then come back to us. So, whatever you send out…comes back. What if you keep your thoughts, words & actions…loving, compassionate & kind? I put a ‘u’ in there so it spells Love, u, Compassion & Kindness, or LuCK. So I say to all of you, live your life with LuCK! Hey, it can’t hurt…
Nice words Dude, you get a lot more out of life using honey rather than vinegar is a favorite saying of mine for the exact reasons you quote. (I still keep a big stick handy though).
Hi Lois, Are there any more articles coming up of your narratives? The ones that you wrote were incredibly interesting.
I remember the hammering well. I had other books, games and interests, which I was made to stop. At he time it sounded reasonable to devote only to scientology studies for a time. I didn’t think i”d get stuck in it. Buyer Beware!
Thank you Mike for this article.
This is one of the importent pieces of information to help people understand what Scientology’s beliefs about God really are. Basically that there is no one God. We were all gods. And are trying to become godlike again by using Scientology. Give us all your money, or work yourself to death and we’ll make you into a God.
Another piece I feel is important is understanding that Hubbard’s Dianetics craze in 1950 to 1951 was not a religion. Hubbard was selling a book FOR PROFIT that was supposed to make you smarter and never be sick again, among other promises. When the book got popular he created Dianetic centers to teach Dianetics and provide Dianetic auditing. Again, not as a religion but as a “scientific” form of counseling FOR PROFIT. It all collapsed within two years. Please read Bare Faced Messiah, or A Piece of Blue Sky to get more details on this. Hubbard had problems with the Food and Drug Administration in the USA because he was making medical claims. They siezed emeters and the pills he was selling Dianazene. After all that he created Scientology to “try the religious angle” thus avoiding not only legal problems with the FDA in the USA, but also avoid paying taxes because now Scientology was a religion.
When i was a public person taking Scientology courses, I was told by staff at my local mission/organization that the religious status was solely so I could deduct every dollar I paid for Scientology services from my income taxes because they are considered donations to a church. And that Scientology was really a science masquerading as a religion because otherwise they would get shutdown by the government. According to them the government wanted to stop people from learning Scientology because once people got smarter by using Scientology they would see all the corruption in government and elect only Scientologists to office.
Think about that for a second. They really do want to control all governments. They really do want to rule the world.
So for all the new people pease read one of the two books listed above, and also read Hubbard’s “Affirmations/Admissions”
And praises to Gerry Armstrong and Bent Corydon for getting so much of this data written by Hubbard’s own hand out of lockup in the church and into the public eye.
There are/were a small group of people in the high levels of the church that knew this and hid it all while promoting Hubbard and his Scientology.
Great post, Studius
Hey!!! Who you callin’ Stupidis??? Huh? Oh…ok… never mind.
Mike, this post is so major that it hit me between the eyes. This could be read by a still in and cause a tilt.
I’m remembering when I was newly in, and first hit this. I was angry at organized religion. So I embraced LRH’s anti any other religion BS.
Even so I knew I had to lie about it to non-scilons. That was my first big lie. It was easier to lie after that.
I was really “in” then.
Thank you Mike for showing me one of the under pinning moments of my conversion.
I feel freer than I did before I read this.
Happy New Year to you and your family. You’ve given me gifts, but this one stands tall.
Hmmm . . . a spiel involving R6 and no mention of Xenu? Tut tut!
But, yep, all correct and, indeed, L Ron Hubbard does teach that most religions, particularly Christianity, are the manifestations of implants deliberately inserted into people’s minds courtesy of Xenu. And then there’s the “Pearly Gates” nonsense found in the Helatrobus crazy. L Ron Hubbard’s utter disdain for Christianity becomes even more apparent by the time a person endures the OTVIII mindfuck. In that process, adherents are told Christ was a peadophile. The references go on and on. But lets not forget L Ron Hubbard’s disdain for Islam which, he claims, is not so much the result of Xenu but more to do with the with a certain middle eastern “wog’s” attempt to generate business.
In his Philadelphia Doctorate Course, the lecture given on 9 December 1952, L Ron Hubbard references Islam’s most sacred place, the Ka’ba in Mecca. He tells his followers . . .
. . . something the Nation of Islam cult omits to tells its members, of course.
Hi Mike
I guess I did make a mistake.
You really do want to destroy the Tech.
I realise you did suffer losses from your personal history, but why try to destroy something that actually works?
Perhaps you can provide me with a path to spiritual freedom, rather than spiritual suicide.
In your own words I would like notes, books, and taped lectures please and a correlation of basic sound priciples.
Please also have people ready to demonstarte this new workable technology so we can at once dispense with LRH and achieve everything that is wonderful
If I didn’t know better I would think you were still OSA, but then again?
pip pip
HOLY Xenu TruthTeller – come to PT. You too are in an incident of long duration – the scam of Scientology.
I had a PT Cruiser once. It was not that satisfying…
Truthteller, if it really worked he couldn’t destroy it with a thousand little informative essays. Let alone one well-researched and meticulously sourced article about one particular aspect of it. If it worked it would be taught in the Universities and everybody would know about it. The conspiracy theories about Big Government and Big Pharma and Big Psych that Hubbard used to excuse his failures in the 50s have grown a bit thin over the half century since.
Truththeller, don’t grow old waiting for someone to come up with a wonderful technology and achieve everything that is wonderful. The real world already is wonderful. And horrible. But there is only one real world and it is unlikely that anyone is going to banish all the horrible parts by waving magic wands or thinking magical thoughts or using magical e-meters. People are people and they don’t change that much even if you wish really really hard.
Truthteller, I love you and I have been where you seem to be. The dazzling promises of the easy way out have sparkled in my eyes too. I have looked up and seen the Front Porch of Eternity scintillating in the bursts of CGI sparkles, coruscating just barely out of reach as I toiled in obscurity backstage. I know there is nothing I can say or do on a New Year’s Eve morning in this quiet spot on the fringes of the Internet that will change your mind.
But, Truthteller, I implore you to spend a moment with your loved ones or friends over this holiday and just be a human for a while. It’s not so bad, you could learn to like it.
Bruce, the eloquence and compassion of your words is really wonderful.
Dear Bruce
The e-meter is not magical at all. Its only magic to someone full of misunderstoods and false data.
I actually spend every day with my “loved ones”, oh is he 1.1 or what. Text book example, gave me such a laugh.
I am pleased he spends all day admiring daisies and such like. I like flowers too.
But to quote another, I don’t want to commit “spiritual suicide” so find some time every day to squeeze a session in.
Beautiful Bruce, wise words indeed.
Out of curiosity, TruthTeller, how far up the Bridge have you gone?
And, how do you explain the many OTVIIs and OTVIII who have left the church? If anyone would know the value of this “workable technology”, it would be them. So, why would so many commit spiritual suicide by denouncing Scn? Aren’t you a little curious? Just a little?
TruthTeller, is something Mike Rinder described above not true?
You should probably get your confront up about what Hubbard spouted out as his ‘research’ and ‘knowingness’ and use some arguments instead of going 1.1 on Mike Rinder and trying to push his buttons with his past.
Geez…have we lost TruthTeller? That didn’t take long.
TT, if Mike’s blog post is an attempt to destroy $cn, then Elron must be the real culprit there because he’s done nothing more than use $cn’s own doctrines to reiterate the points that Elron himself has made.
To frame $cn as anything but an absolutist, fundamentalist belief system would be to not take the founder at his word. There is no place for any other alternative creation story or view of man’s spiritual nature; there’s just the $cn view and a bunch of other ones that are totally and completely wrong.
Not telling folks that up front is deceptive, disingenuous and manipulative. To me, engaging in that deception, as every Good Scientologist is required to, is what has actually destroyed the integrity and authority of everyone who’s been foolish enough to front for it and to perpetuate the “shore story” that the cherch continues to put out there.
Tell the truth about what your religion’s fundamental tenets of belief are, or at least don’t blame others for doing what you’re too afraid to do yourself!
The fact that Elron died an old, sick, demented mere mortal is a tough thing for folks who aspire to super-powered OaTy beingness to handle, but handle it you must or you’re just never going to get out of the real trap here, which is the prison of belief that $cn is for all who victim to it.
Truth Teller. Mike simply told the truth.
Awesome post Mike, thanks. I also read in a few places that on OT8 Ron accuses Jesus of being a pedophile. Can any OT’s confirm or deny it? And if he did say it, it’s a funny contradiction.
This has been debated over and over again and the general consensus, as confirmed by at least one OTVIII, is that, yes, L Ron Hubbard did intimate Christ was a paedophile, but, the material has since been changed. Tony Ortega covered the matter in detail a couple of years ago.
The L Ron Hubbard passage from the OTVIII materials lodged in court, and which Scientology initially claimed were subject to copyright, reads . . .
. . . and is largely consistent with the teachings of Crowley which so obviously influenced L Ron Hubbard in his manufacturing of Scientology.
Sex with minors by adults was common practice in ancient Greece and Rome.
In Mark Chapter 14 there is an account of the betrayal of Christ by Judas and his subsequent arrest by Roman soldiers.
Verses 51 and 52 mention a naked young man who was with Christ.
“51. And there followed him (Christ) a certain young man, having a linen cloth about his naked body; and the young man laid hold on him;
52. And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
53. And they led Jesus away to the high priest:”…
Don’t know if this means Christ was a pedophile. According to the Old Testament, two people caught in a homosexual act should both be stoned. Also, Corinthians 6, verses 9 and 10 says homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom of God. “Not inheriting the kingdom of God” is a nice way to say burn in hell forever.
Hubbard seems to have fallen for the fakery of Morton Smith, who pretended to have discovered a manuscript in the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem that has been interpreted to mean that Clement had heard of writings that said that Jesus was a pedophile. The “Secret Gospel of Mark”. There is a lot of controversy about it, but very few serious scholars accept it as positive evidence pro or con.
As far as the life of Jesus, the Gospels say that he overturned the tables of the money-lenders in the temple in quite a display of anger, that he wept at the loss of a friend and bitterly berated hypocrites. In other words he was human. I suppose if your goal is to be superhuman this is a criticism, but for us ordinary Homo Sapiens it just makes him one of us.
Of course there are lots of folks who have come up with wild theories about it and Hubbard does not need ancient manuscripts to back up his claims. He can just pretend to remember it!
I remember in one tape he said he was not Jesus, kind of sniggered, and then said “I just set that one up”. In another he did say you could be a good Christian and a Scientologist at the same time. Can’t remember where I heard that, but I took it to heart. Never knew about the OT III or OT VIII stuff, never got that far.
But anyway he said a lot of things about anything that would get a rise out of the audience or make him seem like a genius with secret hidden knowledge. Sometimes contradicting himself. You shouldn’t read too much into it. He didn’t know anything more than what you can read for yourself.
Actually the early Christian church had big debates on whether Jesus was human, all divine or simply half and half. The Council of Nicea in 325 AD decided the matter, if I recall history correctly, and promptly tried to squash any residual resistance as heresy although many were split on the outcome. The subject of which gospels would and would not be included in the canon were also discussed and decided. Few Christians today know how much transformation their religion went through for centuries after its founder died.
LRH reminds me more of Joseph Smith who got his “religious inspiration” from golden tablets that he promptly lost but fortunately memorized, that fortuitously allowed him to justify marriage to two underage cousins. He also set out deliberately to found a new religion (Mormonism is also couched and legitimized in Christian symbols), whereas most scholars feel that Jesus was part of the Essene sect of Jews who were a bit more mystical and strict than their contemporaries, and did not intend to create a new religion but simply to reform the old. The failing Roman Empire took care of that for him by providing both the structure and the hierarchy of the early Roman church and spreading it all over their sphere of influence, through Byzantium, Western Europe and beyond.
Go to wikileaks and read the OT8 materials yourself. Yes, the Ronster said Jesus was a pedophile.
I had already stated I read this on the internet. I’m no newby to Scientology deconstruction. However the contradiction is glaring to me. How can someone who didn’t exist be a boy lover? LOL! And I was curious if others had spotted the flaw in the OT Jesus data.
Tommy, Next time you are rude and surly to me I’m gonna be rude back.
Good People, I started an idea regarding Ron as Lucifer the Anti Christ on Marty’s bog a few years ago. I believe the Jesus was a pedophile is part of it.
Actually the words used, that you can google are (paraphrased)
“Jesus had a taste for young boys and gave in to fits of anger. Love and understanding is Marcab PR”
There are folks who took the original. Here is the link. There was an argument at first between folks who did the original OT 8 and the next version minus the Lucifer/Jesus stuff.
George M White old buddy. If you are here please chime in. George took the original course.
Scroll down to my name Brian. I start some thoughts going and then the revelations and first hand accounts occur.
Quite aptly the blog post is called “Dangerous Thoughts”
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comments
Good People, just google original OT 8. Its on line. Maybe you can find another for cross reference. Here is the
ORIGINAL OT8 with Ron the loon weaving tales of degenerat madness.
https://whyweprotest.net/threads/original-ot-viii-before-dm-squirreled-it.116506/
Hi Brian, Thanks for replying. I think perhaps I’ve been having a bit too much merry making these holidays and I haven’t commented clearly. So I’ll try to clarify for you and Tommy. Here goes: 1. I don’t believe in the OT levels. 2. I’ve read the OT 3&8 materials on line and I don’t doubt their authenticity(though out of fairness I tried to indicate I didn’t read the materials in a Church of Sci.) 3. I understand on OT 3 it states Jesus didn’t exist(only a mock up). 4. I understand on OT8 he states Jesus is a pedophile. 5. I thoroughly enjoyed today’s post and was simply trying to point out a funny contradiction.
Happy New Year everybody!
Happy New Year Good People!
Very important and illuminating post. Hope this goes on your “must read” list for people just coming to your blog. Thanks for shedding light on the cross issue and why Scientologists lie like rugs. This is one that Twitter Scientologists keep banging on about. I expect many of them believe it, especially if they haven’t been privy to the real “advanced” words of LRH.
So, new Scientologists are toeing the party line about being in other religions, while “advanced” (more indoctrinated) Scientologists are told the policy, but the policy is to lie about the policy. Such confusing, mind traps! Just like the Xenu myth.
Of course they can’t tell the real truth or own up to their beliefs. If they tell people up front, they’d die laughing or just run out the door.
Hubbard did indeed construct a mind prison. Ironic that he mentioned the failure of punishment when Scientology engages in extreme punishment of anyone who steps a toe out of line in their twisted estimation.
Thank you for all you do! I cannot applaud loudly enough! You are an amazing survivor. I wish you and your wonderful family continued happiness. Happy New Year!
50,000 years of history?
Of course, the answer to the posed question depends on what you MEAN by a Christian or Jew.
Most Jews in the world consider themselves cultural Jews and not believers in the religion as put forth in the Old Testament. So, yes, as a Scientologist, you can “celebrate” Chanukah, whatever the heck that means. Or even go to a synagogue with family members on Yom Kippur and not believe in any of the “God stuff.” You certainly cannot be a “believing Jew” and be a Scientologist as LRH has left many tidbits along the way in his writing and lectures that clearly indicate that he definitely was NOT a believer in a supreme being (I used to keep note pages on this when I was on the BC, just a personal interest).
I attended a fundamentalist Assemblies of God church for a couple of years and I can tell you that someone who calls themselves an actual Christian CANNOT also be a Scientologist and in any way follow KSW. To be a Christian you accept that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the ONLY way to the Father and eternal life. Any other way is what Paul calls “false teaching” and is the way the “bad guy” (you know who) takes you off the path to salvation.
In strict Islamic belief, a Muslim who leaves the religion for another one faces the death penalty. So you’re not gonna see Scientology in the Islamic world.
I live in a country where something like 94% say that they are Buddhists, about 4 % Muslims, 1% Christian and then there are some Hindus, Sikhs and Jews that make up the rest. It’s not a matter of whether a Buddhist can ALSO be a Scientologist. I just don’t think you will find much interest in a Buddhist nation in even considering Scientology as any type of option. (I’m guessing that Japanese and Taiwanese Scientologists were not practicing or identifying Buddhists – but probably of another Eastern religion)
So, in short … no.
” he definitely was NOT a believer in a supreme being ”
With one possible exception Joe, per his own words in KSW……
“We will not speculate here on why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank. We are dealing only in facts and the above is a fact—”
):
He seemed to edge himself pretty close to allow ‘the reader’ to come to his/her own conclusion. Similar construct in Hymn (Him) of Asia IMHO.
And now we have Dave continuing with ‘the crucifixion’ thanks to A&E. Poor Dave is being nailed to the cross and will die for all the sins of the unfaithful Ess Pees out there.
You make an interesting point about fundamentalist Christianity, one that I had never considered before. I used to visit a fundi Baptist Church that my cousin went to when I was a kid and practicing yoga, seeing a therapist, these were all things that were not acceptable because if you needed or wanted anything other than Christ there was something wrong with you. Even when I went to a city Church which was more fundamentalist “lite” it felt very clear that people who did much outside the church were “lukewarm”.
So it seems that in this regard, like Mike pointed out, the CoS is fundamentalist and is not even remarkable in the form it takes.
It’s only remarkable in all the other ways they are horrible to people.
@Brian: IT WAS L RON HUBBARD WHO WAS THE IMPLANTER .. yeah it seems true .. after all my study of LRH, I found that he spoke too much about implants and implanter .. but LRH spoke also about implants which do not work .. and how you can be free of all this stuff ..
The work of LRH is very interestingly in some ways .. his basic sence was to get you in his valence .. and this was his salvation and freedom idea .. if any being in this universe would agree with him then he would be god .. so he did fight against enemies .. but it is something which a god would never do ..
LRH did create confusions and ARC breaks .. and this is all what an implanter can do and ever did .. the ARC breaks are normally given from staff or public who were already in confusion themself ..
Again, Jesus cannot work as an implant .. his message is to stay in love with others .. something like that is also per LRH not an implant .. would never work in billion years ..
When LRH said later that Jesus was implanted in the mind of all .. I find that this implant did work absolutely totally slow .. 75.000.000 .. at this time there was no man on earth .. waiting to get this implant at work after 74.800.00 is completely idiotic ..