Another accidental disclosure of stats you would never see at an International Event where all graphs look liked they have been neutered.
But the first interesting thing about this is the LRH quote. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the ENTIRE justification for the Holy Grail of getting 10,000 on Solo NOTs. That is everything there is on the subject that is not just hype.
But here we go — this is by FAR the largest Class V org on earth. It dwarfs all other Class V orgs and outside of St Hill Fdn (which hardly exists) it is the only Sea Org Class V org (though Tampa is a semi-SO Class V org with SO members from Flag there as virtual staff members).
It has now been more than 4 months since the release of GAG II.
Here is the breakdown:
374 Studentr Hat starts and 62 grads. EVERYONE has to re-do Student Hat so if they havent gotten going after 4 months they could not be called “active”, so this is a pretty good gauge of how many ACTIVE public CC has. And after 4 months less than one in six who started has completed. Not quite like Dear Leader was announcing “100% completions in checksheet time which is 2 weeks.”
245 Survival Rundown starts. Matches up with the Student Hat starts (and they mention that 50 of them are OT’s — not even their public). So, real figure for active, involved publiuc on lines at the largest Class 5 org in the world is 250. Giving MASSIVE benefit of the doubt and saying for all 150 orgs they average 125 active, participating public (and this is WAAAAAY overstating it, there are probably 5 other orgs that are about half the size of CC Int and then rest drop off real fast) this is less than 20,000 public worldwide. Of course this does not include SO Orgs and Flag, now does it include Missions. Generously, they have 10,000. So about 30,000 in all. And this matches up with all other figures extrapolated out from the bits and pieces that leak out of the bubble.
All the rest of their stats are less than these and simply substats of these two key factors.
Look ma, the Emperor has no clothes….
vbaumann says
CC Int took me in as a “celebrity” when I wasn’t. They qualified me because I knew someone who was a kinda sorta celebrity. Talk about reaching.
Old Surfer Dude says
Re: For COB there will be hell to pay. I certainly hope so! In spades no less!
MJ says
For anyone wondering how those in the bubble could be so gullible, please check out this link if you haven’t already done so. http://www.scientology-cult.com/mechanisms-of-miscavige.html?start=1
overrunincalif says
Most who are signing up for these new services are doing so out of obligation and to set a good example for others. It’s not because they want to do the courses. And this will be over soon. After that…..well lets just say there will be lots of “space” in the org.
Old Surfer Dude says
ORIC, I came to the same conclusion. At the Pasadena Idle Morgue, they have names from the 70s on course. I remember these folks from decades back. The org shames them into coming in for GAG II. And, again, I go by that Idle Morgue several times a month. It’s empty except for a very few students and the old timers.
MJ says
For COB there will be hell to pay.
Potpie says
Just read the post Mike linked to.
What a mess. Once I left the
nest paying bills became surviving 101.
Really this is so freaking basic one
can only know there is extreme trouble
in paradise. It is mind boggling org staff
don’t see what midgy is doing.
Madora P says
It’s always amazing to see who’s left in! I was on the Class IV Internship with Andrea Abbate. I didn’t finish, because it is all about the money and good luck if you need help. No, they don’t want to make auditors. Also, once I was familiar with the EP of the Grades, I couldn’t help but notice that people weren’t getting those results and/or the results weren’t permanent.
Someone who got the promised results of the Grades would be a very together person who wouldn’t get in their own way in life. I believe to achieve that takes rational thought, and honestly examining one’s own actions regularly.
Also, reading so many folders, it was shocking how the C/Sing was callous, cold, unhelpful and blaming the PC, and not even trying to fix things. I also disagreed with the correction lists. No, those things don’t sort out any problem that comes up. Hardly!! I would see so many people sad after auditing. I couldn’t do it anymore.
Back to Andrea, she is one of the funniest people I ever met in my life. There was a group of us ladies on it, and we’d laugh and laugh while we tried to drill. The supervisor was too sleep-deprived to have any control over us. I still giggle thinking about how funny she is. Andrea actually taught me a lot about humor. Come on out, baby!
Just Me says
Great numbers. Great analysis. Completely concur. The market has rejected GAGII.
Mike Rinder says
If you have not read the latest post on the African blog about Pretoria Ideal Org, it’s well worth reading. Dox that prove the massive fail of the “ideal orgs” http://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/pretoria-straight-up-and-vertically-in-debt/#more-1334
Old Surfer Dude says
Wow, Mike! Somewhat like total failure! It looks like they’re playing the game of “Circling the Drain” too.
Tony DePhillips says
Seems like the “carrot” of becoming an actor has helped to get CC some stats, but not all that much. Maybe they could get Cruise to come and do a Book One seminar??
TheWidowDenk says
Interesting about the “carrot” of becoming an actor. You know, many years ago I took the Art Extension Course through CC and honestly enjoyed it. I never heard much from CC after that … until Dr Denk passed. Then, somehow, I ended up getting tons of promo and letters. My response, if only to myself, was “I’m not a celebrity.”
Roy Macgregor says
OK there are some scary numbers there:
Looking at the number HGC hours that are being delivered it looks good at first glance – 10863 is pretty good in 4 months for HGC auditing. But then you notice that all that auditing resulted in 269 grade chart completions.
First Scary Number: That is an average of 40 hours of auditing to get 1 grade chart completion. The most likely explanation is that the “celebs” are too uppity to get their hands dirty by co-auditing objectives and that CC Int has all it’s fancy Class VIIIs delivering objectives sessions to the likes of Bodhi Elfman and other OSA trusted people. The only reason they are able to show decent auditing hours is because they are allowing tons of objectives in the HGC- and forcing people to re-do objectives that are already flat. So that’s sad for them.
They also note the total SRD hours and how many people started the course. This leads to
Second Scary Number: The 245 people who have started the SRD since its release have gotten an average of 27 hour of objectives delivered over the 4 month sample period.
The most likely explanation here is that people are signing up to “prove compliance” and then simply not attending course or whatever they are doing on the SRD it is not resulting in people getting through and done.
This is reinforced by the glaring failure to mention how many SRD completions there are. They mention other completions- why not completions for the SRD? The one and only explanation for that is that the SRD completions are so low as to be humiliating. Which re-inforces the idea of getting a pittiful 245 sign ups but only a quarter of them are actually coming to course.
This is typical, typical, typical. They grab some numbers that they think will be impressive, assuming that all the scientology public are just too stupid to notice the huge outpoints- and voila!
The scientology public are in fact, too stupid to notice the huge outpoints.
These numbers shout out “whatever you do, don’t sign up for the SRD- it’s a black hole”.
basketballjane says
OK Mike I just have to clarify one tiny detail on these stats.
Yes the numbers you have are correct.
You have to remember that CCI is home to the the Celebrity and wanna be Celebrity alike. When I was a Supervisor and W/Cer there we had about 600 regular public on course weekly. That was the BIS. But of those 600 there were barely 100-150 that were full time. And out of the rest of them, only about 10% of those were even on a standard schedule. That was the ultimate nightmare at CC. You can’t tell Celebrities that they have to come in every day at the same time, or all day on the weekends or even show up WHEN course starts. If they showed up at all they were allowed to study when it suited them. Even when they were studying in the Academy.
I got in TONS of trouble for yelling at Celebrities for being late and off schedule. And it didn’t win me brownie points with them either but mostly the people that have “started” the student hat were literally routed onto the course and that’s it. They probably haven’t come back at all.
If experience proves out, MANY of those “starts” have blown off the lines for good. That happened after the Original GAT as well. We had a number of people that left once they got to Pro Metering. They didn’t even start it. GAT I at least had the Study Certainty Course so people didn’t have to redo the WHOLE Student Hat. So that was fun I guess.
But these stats are telling. So many people gone from CCI. It was booming once.
If they are emptying out then there must be NOBODY at these other Class V orgs.
MJ says
It would be telling if someone did a stat comparative to when CC was run by Yvonne on 8th Street. The place was packed.
Old Surfer Dude says
I spent alot of time at the old CC, MJ. I was friends with Yvonne. On Saturday nights, the place rocked! It was actually fun back then. I remember meeting Lou Rawls there. At one point they brought him out (led by a SO person) in front of these very bright lights. He said, “I’M GOING ALL THE WAY WITH SCIENTOLOGY!.” Of course, after awhile, he said, “I don’t want anything to do with THOSE people.” In my humble opinion, it started to go down hill rapidly in 1982. And has continued to do so since. Hip, hip…
TheWidowDenk says
“GAT I at least had the Study Certainty Course so people didn’t have to redo the WHOLE Student Hat. So that was fun I guess.” No, the Study Certainty Course was not fun. I ran into trouble with the supervisor on it. No offense, BBJane.
basketballjane says
I am sure you did. We were trained to be assholes. Sorry but that is the fact. We were actually drilled to basically make students wrong and assert total power over them. I am sorry that you had trouble. I tried to keep my Student Hat Courseroom upbeat. I hope it wasn’t under my watch.
plainoldthetan says
GAT 1 supervisors were taught to be mercenary unreasonable assholes through the whole “Flag-trained” evolution. They forgot that the name of the game was to get people through their courses with understanding. The forgot what their product was.
And, unlike what LRH wrote, a GAT 1 supervisor didn’t have to have a Serfac handling before going on the floor.
Whoops.
basketballjane says
POT yes we were. But don’t forget we were PERFECT assholes. Jesus. Don’t forget the Perfect part. We EARNED that! Hahaha.
TheWidowDenk says
So here’s the deal. I had been a student on the BC for 1 1/2 years when GAT 1 was released. If I recall correctly, I was near the end of Level L or so and the NEXT level was when I got to audit! I was so ready to audit that I had already lined up a couple of PC’s. But, this was not to be. Upon the release of GAT 1 I was given a new TIP (Technical Individual Program), which took me off a training course of action on which I was doing well. There was no after-TIP exam, but that’s ok as it wouldn’t have FN’d anyway. My first cycle was to do Study Certainty. My supervisor was a young man and I do mean young, probably in his 20’s, who had come back from Flag. He had zero respect for his elders, and I do mean I was far older and wiser than he was. We certainly didn’t hit it off at all which is probably why he targeted me for immediate Study Certainty Course completion and, when I said “no,” called me dilettante. Give me a break …
MJ says
I think it’s becoming painfully obvious that COB doesn’t want auditing to occur.
Cindy P says
Barry Klein and Natalie Simms seem to be missing from the FSM report. Hmmmmmm………
Chinaski says
Just being devil’s advocate, but couldn’t one read those numbers as being starts/etc for just CC field?
Chinaski says
Oh, wait, nevermind, that’s what you are saying too.
Jose Chung says
Sound of one CLAM Clapping.
If it looks like a quickie,walks like a quickie, quacks like a quickie,
it must be a quickie. Just ask Peaches Geldolf a CC INT product.
(talk really loud)
joan says
Davey’s downfall. He, like the story of King Midas, became overwhelmed with greed and thinking he would capture the sun for it’s gold, ended up being a cinder. Tick tock.
Ms. B. Havin says
I have to wonder why FSM of the Month, Sharry Flaherty, has to bring her selectees all the way from Las Vegas to CC Int. Isn’t there a CC in Las Vegas? Aren’t there enough selectees available in the Los Angles area to keep one from venturing so far afield?
Oh, and good luck to the Book Squad heading out to the USC campus for the book fair. They will be able to “exercise [their] dissemination skills with the most up-tone, interested public you’ll ever meet–book lovers!”
Now days, people who love books also get a lot of information off of the internet. This would include places like this site. They might also want a better deal on the cost of books, so the place to go is Amazon. Type in scientology in Amazon’s search feature and a nice selection of “entheta” publications are available that make much better reading than the CoS top hit, Fundamentals of Thought. I particularly like Going Clear by Lawrence Wright and A Piece of Blue Sky by Jon Atack. Happy reading.
Old Surfer Dude says
Here’s the latest game in the bubble: Circling the Drain. Hip, hip…
Mooser42001 says
“Here’s the latest game in the bubble: Circling the Drain.”
Clock-wise or counter, depending on which hemisphere the ideal org is located.
WhiteStar says
you didn’t happen to read encyclopedia brown when you were a kid?
Old Surfer Dude says
Mooser, either way, they’re failing at the same rate! Hey, at least it’s consistant planet wide! A massive downward spiral into oblivion. Gosh, this is such fun to watch!
MJ says
That’s the naked truth.
Annabelle says
Funny. :o)
SILVIA says
And the Power FSM has 25 students, once a week, doing the Problems of Work extension course. Snail pace, but getting there. Imagine how is the rest? Yes a crashed vertical downward stat.
Draco says
Now now…the emperor has IDEAL clothes which can only be seen by IDEAL thetans!
Visitor says
😀
Robert Almblad says
Putting OTs on the same entrance courses with new people not only demoralizes the OTs, it also debunks the newbes unrealistic expectations for OT VIII, etc….
Newbes strive for OT VIII, etc… because maybe they can actually get that ash tray to move some day. So, GAG II is dismantling the mystery of upper levels that LRH designed in the Bridge to help pull newbes up the whole expensive Bridge to find out what is at the top.
The truth is, if I was running around a pole with a bunch of OT VIIIs 40 years ago, I would have to the nearest exit.
GAG II is the doomsday bomb for Scientology. It’s a neutron bomb that kills off the people but leaves the buildings untouched.
Old Surfer Dude says
Nice post, Robert! I really like the nuetron bomb example. But you are absolutely right about mixing OTs with Raw Meat. And, just for the record, I did get my ash tray up! Of course, I did have to use my meat body, but, hey, I did it at least!
Cooper Kessel says
God damn those ash trays anyway!
Old Surfer Dude says
+1. I had such an urge to throw them at the sups.
MJ says
You were suppressed.
remoteviewed says
Good analysis of the scene Robert or…..more accurately the situation being the furthest departure from the ideal scene.
I mean when I first got into Scientology actual OTs those who were trained as well were looked at with a degree of awe.
Maybe it was undeserved in many cases but in some it was not.
Now they are just some shmuck like Pat Parody who can’t even put a coherent sentence together taking longer on his objectives than most heavy drug cases I have audited.
Such is the state of “OT” in the Church these days.
I wouldn’t be surprised if your average Joe Public who had just finished reading Creation of Human Ability or 8-80 or 8-8008 and looked at someone like Pat or the untrained Lunatic Fringe they call “OTs” these days and ran the other way.
Or took up TM instead.
Mike,
Thanks for posting the reason why we have Clive Raving (mad) going on and on and on…about 10000 NOTs.
Again Ron makes a comment based on his observations and it then becomes “policy” in the crazy Bizarro world of altered importances known as the “Church of Scientology” these days.
Skydog says
Be patient grasshoppers; as I am writing this, dear leader is finding the SPs that are causing this problem and with 100% standard tech will eradicate and crush the suppression that is causing this apparent fail. The reality is that people want and need a 5’1″ midget that can tell them that what they see with their own eyes is only the reality of those without vision. Really, it is going to happen. Hang in there people – don’t believe those unemployed bloggers on the fringe of the internet.
Cooper Kessel says
And as per usual, when the SPs are out in numbers and clamoring loudly, it is only because of the massive and totally unprecedented quantity of pure theta and boundless stats into the stratosphere coming form the unending parade of Ideal Morgues coming on line to save the planet and all of it’s cleared……uh…..cannibals? What did I miss?
Mooser42001 says
“the unending parade of Ideal Morgues coming on line to save the planet and all of it’s cleared……uh…..cannibals?”
If those Scientology bastards think they can clear the planet of cannabis, they will have one hell of a fight on their hands. And all that anthropophagy is nonsense. Very few people are driven to that dietary extreme by ‘munchies’
plainoldthetan says
Let’s see…Celebrity Centre International used to allow JUST ANYONE in. But then someone (the COB?) figured out that JUST ANYONE wanted to come to CC Int because CC Int had a “relaxed attitude” about course attendance.
For example, a “celebrity” might need to travel to Bufwhufistan for filming, or have to take a week off course to do a guest spot on a TV show, or take next Tuesday off for an audition, or…or…or…
When the rest of Scientology in the LA area figured this out, they chose to sign up at CC Int for courses.
But that was sucking public off lines from other orgs. You know, the orgs that insisted on “standard schedules”: (Foundation) M-F 7-10 and S-S 9-6; (Day) M-F 9-6.
No mixing, no matching.
The big problem with forcing “standard schedules” on people who signed up with the understanding they could be on a workable schedule was that LRH policy requires a “special schedule” courseroom for those people who can’t do a standard schedule. The Catch-22 with that approach is that most orgs don’t have enough supervisors or word clearers or square footage to have a “special schedule” courseroom. Of course, the notion of “checkseheet time” goes out the window when the person is on a “special schedule”. That’s important when there’s a daily student points penalty for going past the checksheet time for the course.
(I remember when someone at ASHO tried to get me on a “standard schedule”. I pulled out the references and showed them that I could pay a 15% surcharge and be in a “special schedule” courseroom. I asked where the “special schedule” courseroom was. When they said “uh, we don’t have one”, that was the end of that argument. If you look on the so-called “approved floor plans” of Ideal Orgs, you won’t find “special schedule” courserooms. I wonder who approved that?)
So there was a big evolution to purge the evil CC Int of those gawdawful slacker Scientologists who were choosing to be on course some rather than not at all, at an org that could give them a decent schedule. During the “big evolution” a new non-LRH policy was instituted to not allow a person to sign up at CC Int if they couldn’t be “qualled” as a celebrity.
“Qualled”, of course, means “has lots of money and could rub elbows with ‘real celebrities’ without grating on those celebrities nerves”.
So one of the things Mike maybe couldn’t weave into his analysis is how basically no one at CC Int is going to do anything “in checksheet time”.
If the numbers are anywhere near right, CC Int is very very lucky. Is CC trying to convince parishioners that “there’s plenty of room in our courserooms”?
Also, we can see the net effect of what Miscavige intended with GAT 1 and GAT 2: Getting a second or third pocketbook of lower Bridge money from people who already did and therefore shouldn’t need these Bridge actions.
Since people are spending money to re-do courses they already did, and CC is restricted from accepting non-celebrities, frankly, it’s a miracle that there’s any stats to report at all.
As is the case in Scientology, this is the last time we will see anything approaching real numbers out of CC Int for the rest of GAT 2.
They won’t have the nerve to publish lower numbers than this, which is all they will be able to do after the initial “honeymoon period” is over.
The success of COBs newest “tech evolution” could then clearly be shown for the failure it is.
TheWidowDenk says
Nice comment POT. I don’t think CC was the only org with scheduling problems. I was on course at LA Day, late 1990’s, and got booted out of the regular course room as I wasn’t full time. The supervisor in the regular course room actually booted me out.
basketballjane says
The definition of Celebrity, per LRH, is pretty loosy goosy to begin with. I used to know it verbatim but it is essentially any person who is important in their field, profession their friends, family and associates. So entourage people count. If your uncle is a well known doctor in Beverly Hills you count. If you are an “ACTOR” and by that I mean you go on auditions and hope to some day land ANY role anywhere you count.
The purge came when it was discovered that a ton of ExSO from PAC and other upper orgs were getting services at CCI. They were doing that to avoid being seen by the people they had once worked with. Also like you pointed out everyone had gotten themselves onto some sort of special schedule.
That was a nightmare for us back in the day. We even tried having a special schedules course room for like a week. We all knew that every course room was pretty much special schedule.
We did, at least when I was working, got many people through checksheets in correct time. Mostly the last 3 days of course with three sups working one on one and coaching the students through EVERYTHING ourselves, you know totally “Standard tech”. Hahaha.
Foolproof says
The Course Schedules “HCO PL” is a 1990s invention which contradicts the 1964 (actual) HCO PL called The Foundation” which gives course times and schedules for Foundation Orgs and as far as I recall Day Orgs as well (by elimination). There is no mention of “special course rooms” etc. in this policy and is a completely invented arbitrary. This “enforcing of schedules” came about when rabid SO “execs” wanted all public always on course so that they could plunder them on any day of the week, plus I suppose envy that as they could not have weekends off then neither should students. I suppose a few clever students referred these rabid registrar dogs to the original LRH HCO PL and thus they had to invent another “HCO PL” to justify and beat down those who complained. But people who complain these days are few and far between in the “pod person” ranks of the remaining Church public. But this “HCO PL” was invented by Compilations Unit/Miscavige to justify to themselves that they are now not violating real HCO Policy. So “it’s all ok now”.
MJ says
A little off the subject – I think Dave stole James Brown’s line about being the hardest working man in show business to the idea that he (the dope, er, I mean pope) is the hardest working man in Scientology. One thing I don’t quite get is his product. What does he actually produce besides misery?
Mike Rinder says
He finds lost tech, comes up with “why’s” and generates “reasons to collect.” Those are his 3 VFPs.
MJ says
That’s what I thought, thanks. 😉
1subgenius says
Marketing to “the able”. I’ve always had a problem with that. Not only for its implications regarding the disabled.
“Able? Well, we can fix that!”
Eugene K says
LOLOL! This is so funny. I remember thinking the same thing. If one is already able, why would they need Scientology? This makes a lot more sense when I start to see that the organization is all about extracting money (or their time and energy) from people. Of course then you want the “able” to be in the clique – those are the ones that will bring in the cash and/or volunteer service while needing little in return.
But really if we look at the dissem drill, it includes “finding a ruin” meaning finding an area where one is not so able in order to get one interested in Scientology as a solution to some lack of ability.
Pepper says
“Scientology is for the Able.”
Remember that one? I heard it many times when I was in and struggling to pay for that next OT level or to stay on the one I was on at the time.
This is the biggest justifier to charge exorbitant prices for services which are supposed to be “vital” to the continued existence of mankind and planet Earth, not to mention religious pratice or enlightenment.
I read not too long ago that the average American makes around $30,000 per year. How is the US going to get cleared on that income? It will never happen. Except for “the able.”
This concept always bothered me because it indicates that only people who make enough money to pay are “the able.” There are plenty of good, productive, valuable people out in the world who may not happen to be high income earners. This doesn’t make them any less “able.”
“Disseminating to the Able” also reeks of the ‘Us versus Them’ mentality that runs rampant in the organization, oops I mean Cult.
jgg2012 says
I think they mean “disseminating to the financially able”.