Here is one of those LRH quotes the church sends out without apparently even reading what it says.
Whether you or I find this quote credible, there is no question that the person who sent it out from New Era, and any scientologist who received it, accepts this as gospel truth.
That being the case, one has to wonder whether they read this:
…if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not is just going to—is lying to you. Check up the facts, you’ll find out they’re always true; that person is trying to control you, he’s lying to you. He’s got to tell you lies in order to continue control…
Land if they have ANY thought about the amount of control that is exerted over them by the church.
They are constantly being told they must attend events, file CF, be on course, participate in “4D activities” etc etc.
They are told what they can and cannot do with their money.
They are told who they may or may not communicate with.
There is a lengthy list of “Misdemeanors”, “Crimes” and “High Crimes” that dictate what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. And there is even an Ethics Department to police this with an iron fist and impose and enforce penalties.
They are informed who they may have as friends on Facebook.
They are told what they may think — it is a sin to have “bad thoughts” about COB or LRH.
And plenty more.
It is another indicator of how controlled the world of scientology is. How slavishly blind can one get — to believe on one hand that everything L. Ron Hubbard says is true and infallible and on the other hand to be confronted with a quote from him that if you believed you would have to see that the church is lying to you, and yet the connection is apparently never made.
It is like those who do Super Power and don’t realize what a sham the church is — the Ethics Repair List alone should convince people the ethics and justice activities of the church have systematically suppressed people. Let alone the “Bright Think Rundown” that apparently results in dim thinking as otherwise everyone who completed it would be bright enough to see what is going on before their very eyes — if nothing else, that Flag is EMPTY.
The bubble that is the world of scientology is a study in how to NOT think for yourself.
Dear ,
Sometimes you observe people who have a problem with “control”—specifically “being controlled.” Well, here’s a related datum from L. Ron Hubbard that I am sure will be of use to you!
“When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you. You can put that down. One way or the other, this individual is trying to control you; that’s a mechanism of control. …
“Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not is just going to—is lying to you. Check up the facts, you’ll find out they’re always true; that person is trying to control you, he’s lying to you. He’s got to tell you lies in order to continue control, because the second you start telling anybody anything close in to truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So you can’t control somebody without telling them a bunch of fibs.”
— L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88, lecture “Overt Acts, Motivators and DEDs” (25 June 1952)
Forward this quote to your friends. They can sign up to also receive these quotes.
Best,
Raphael
New Era
I would wager that for many the connection IS being made. The problem for those people is, “what can I do about it?”.
Lie is the very first tool to control people indeed. That’s why scientology is so good at it: it lies every day since before may 1950!
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Nails on the head all over the place, Statpush.
This was intended to ack something Statpush said much further down, sorry.
no worries I got it. It’s also based on “CommonSense” post comment.
I prefer to take about the lies of LRH and DM so one can decide for themselves instead of getting into personality clashes or ex’s analyzing each other.
opps, take should be talk.
Yeah, well, don’t let it happen again…
Ah yes, the 4 conditions of existence – the corner stone of the Scientology bubble. Could be said another way, Hubbard’s is the only acceptable truth, yours isn’t.
As a theoretical extravaganza I found the theta/mest theory, Qs & Axioms worth a look and heaven forbid, found some of it was actually really interesting.
But and this is a BIG BUT, Scientology gives you all the tools for self conspiracy and enforces them upon you. And to obtain that all you need to do is believe someone’s else’s version of it without question, especially Hubbard. The Christians have been doing that for centuries with death and brimstone yabba yabba, yet the talk of love and fellowship come out of the same book. The Koran preaches tolerance but some do unspeakable things with it’s interpretation. Scientology is very punitive if you think bad thoughts about it, yet offers the auditor’s code and the code of a Scientologist.
Being lied to, spreading those lies around and sucking up to management is a corporate Scientologist’s only way for them to behave (it matches their intelligence level) and they truly believe it is holding them together, yet it’s their very demise. You can take any part of anything said or done in Scientology and expose it as anything you like, all the evidence is there to interpret, just like a lawyer does. A good lawyer can convincingly work both sides of a case. Both Miscavige and Hubbard marketed it as the only way for you – did you buy that? I did for awhile but ended up taking what the man himself said to do – “if it’s true for you it’s true…” Worked for me and I walked away, yet those in the bubble and some even beyond that keep buying something I have hard time coming to terms with now – unless you are agreed with, things don’t feel so good and it invites self-examination. When you have that shoved down your throat and then accept being punished for negative thoughts or actions, well… it makes you a good Scientologist or adherent of any master controller. Lies are the despots tools of trade, Scientology is very good at it but they are far from the exclusive users of such mechanisms. It’s a tool available to anyone and some are better than others in its application.
When somebody lies to you they are trying to control you? Okay but that also goes for when somebody speaks the truth to you. All communication is an effort to control somebody. To influence them. But conversely, any effort to control somebody requires a lie? Even when good advice is being given? Sorry, Mr. Hubbard, but you sound like a ‘philosophe retarde’.
I going to argue against you. When you tell the the truth and yes there are a lot of degrees. You are giving the person the information they need to make their own decision but when you lie to someone you are attempting to denying them the ability to make an informed decision thus you are trying to control them. The truth isn’t something you can use to control people. It simply is the truth. When I am honest with someone, I am not trying to control them. I am just informing them of facts which is what they need to be able to make a decision for themselves. A lie on the other hand is a tool of control. Now, obviously lying isn’t the only way to control people there is force, emotional blackmail, etc.
MEP, let us have it your way and decide the word, “control”, refers to influencing another person in a nefarious way. I might tell you the truth to influence you to your benefit therefore we won’t call it, “control”. Yet I might tell you the truth to influence you to your detriment and that we WILL call “control”. If I tell you a lie to conceal something embarrassing about myself resulting in no harm to you so you will like me. Should we call that “control”? In all cases I’m aiming to influence your thinking.
As per our agreed upon usage of the word, it appears my motives are what determines if there is “control”, not whether I’m speaking the truth or a lie.
My point is Hubbard made a lot of exotically worded pronouncements that SEEM like esoteric knowledge to the undiscriminating follower. His ‘revelations’ about lying and control 1. carried the IMPLIED meaning: “don’t listen to the suppressive outsiders” and, 2. served as reinforcement of the false impression Hubbard was a deep thinker who knew better than you about stuff.
Engaging in 2D (not 4D) activities may help to get the membership stats up…. 🙂
I don’t know of any other way…
Aww… don’t know about that. Genghis Khan, Julius C and Der Fuehrer et al. had a method or two of increasing membership. Short lived maybe but it got their stats up. Even the Vikings and Indians were prone to pinching kids to bolster their numbers. Be imaginative and the worlds your oyster.
Then again, the oldest game ever invented is still far more fun, has a few side effects tho, but way more fun! Add some drugs and rock and roll… whee, round and round we go!
Mike, I just want to say how appreciative I am of you staying above the recent fray going on between a couple of website proprietors. The information you share helps us all make up our own minds.
I agree, CommonSense. If there is one thing I regret during my years in the church, it is my intolerance and elitist attitude. Tolerance seems to be a rare commodity in Scn and in the Anti-Scn camp – and now, Anti-Anti-Scn (not to be confused with Pro-Scn).
Much of this could be resolved if everyone practiced tolerance, respected the views of others, and displayed some common decency. Mike’s blog is one of the few places I post nowadays, since it consistently practices these virtues.
unfortunately I think I had too much tolerance for the COS, I saw many red flags in the beginning and should have bolted or at least really start to question things. But research was not available back then like it is now.
Ditto
Hear hear.
Yes, Mike – that you have not engaged or taken sides no matter your viewpoint speaks clearly to your purpose for this blog. Thank you.
Concur.
If he had said: “When some is lying to you they are trying to manipulate you.”, he’d have been on the mark. Of course scilons are being lied to continuously and thus manipulated to there own detriment.
“Yes, everyone is lying to you to control you.”
Everyone but me, follow me and I’ll set you free. Rap on brother, rap on.” The Temptations, Ball of Confusion. ‘And the band played on’.
How many times did hubbard give warnings about something he was using?
The infallible man is already in the failure mode.
Interesting that this quote caught Raphael’s attention. He may have a ‘Hallelujah Moment’ very soon.
From memory (not perfect) I seem to recall LRH saying, “You can put that down in your book in big black letters.” They have cut that sentence in half for some reason.
Selectivity is mark of someone with an agenda. The Cof$ splurges on it!
There is no such thing as the whole story in Scioland about anything.
“In context,” is regarded as a high crime!
If one seriously studies Scientology and LRH’s work, it becomes very apparent that there is quite a difference between “early Ron”, “mid Ron” and “late Ron.” Yes, there was indeed a sort of “liberal early Ron” which you see in much of his early work which validated an individual’s right to postulate their own life and viewpoint. On Level A of the BC, I hit on a couple of very unusual lectures where LRH says that homosexuality is no big deal, no worry and as far as promiscuity goes for a man … well, that’s the way men are, get as many women as you can. In an early lecture on education, he even says to be very suspicious of any teacher who does not want you to question what he says and that as a student, you need to be able to reject datums given to you.
Now, I certainly think ANY individual has the right to change his mind, certainly. But as you follow LRH through the years, there is no doubt that he became more fixated on controlling not only the behavior of his followers, but their viewpoints and opinions as well. This is quite clear in his insistence that ANY contrary viewpoint, confusion or disagreement you have with him on ANY point is because of YOUR misunderstood words or earlier “false” data (that is to say, data which contradicts what HE says). (Yes, people certainly DO have mu’s and false data, but on EVERYTHING they are confused or disagree with???? I don’t think so.)
And re: all the crimes and high crimes? One day, go over them and count how many have to do with your NOT having the right to communicate when you are in Scientology. Communication crimes by “mid Ron.” Of course, “late Ron” was fairly accusing every one ELSE of out ethics, as he was frantically trying to hide his own.
Really a shame. I think that there is much great truth in LRH’s early work (not that I think that EVERYTHING he said was true) and great benefit to be derived from so many auditing processes. But as LRH himself slowly but surely slide down the pole of mental health, becoming more paranoid and schizophrenic, he very unfortunately also felt he had to assert his own dominance over his followers in every area of life. (WHAT? You’re using a soap with SCENT???!!!!)
Great points Joe, I concur.
Early Ron = fun Ron, insightful, humourous, somewhat rebellious, “big picture” Ron
Mid Ron = ascension to demi-God, the one true source, controlling, horrible ethics and justice
Late Ron = his Howard Hughes period, on-the-run, paranoid, take-the-money-and-hide
Statpush … I think your descriptions nailed it perfectly.
Great post, Joe. In particular does what you’ve said point up for me the absurdity of being forbidden to communicate that one is leaving. I think this comes from a PL written in ’76 or ’77 called, “Leaving And Leaves”. It used to blow my mind that staff I knew and liked and become accustomed to would just one day VANISH – pouf – gone…no “goodby”, nothing. I mean, they didn’t ALL blow. There were legit reasons for a number of them. Some just moved and left staff for that reason. Some joined the Sea Org. But they were forbidden by policy to communicate about it except to the Ethics Officer, who of course didn’t tell anyone. It was so nuts, so unnatural, I always thought.
Yep, good post. Life sure caught up with Hubbard. Capone even stated his empire got too much for him too.
Guess it’s the cycle of demise of religious newbes that hit the big time and they find their own system can’t cope. Some big corporates have gone that way too recently, especially insurance and mortgage brokers. Without serious control and free public money a lot of banks would be dust too.
2008 was a particularly memorial year for belly ups, Not since 1929 has the financial community witnessed 12 months like it. Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. Merrill Lynch, AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, HBOS, Royal Bank of Scotland, Bradford & Bingley, Fortis, Hypo and Alliance & Leicester all came within a whisker of doing so and had to be rescued.
Money and power… fickle things even with a big stick.
Today, so many letters from staff are signed off with “best” now instead of “arc” or “much love” as was the case before COB. Back in the day I recall Lcon reserved the “best” closing only for people he was upset with. Back then one hoped to never get a “best” letter from him. The term “best” always meant Lcon wasn’t pleased with you. Mike, I know you remember this and can concur. Do staff today merely not know all this?
They probably don’t know this. You are correct. “Best” was definitely not good.
Well, perhaps they do know it and do mean it:)
Intelligence isn’t a option for a Scio. Spell check is about about as high as it gets, and even then they fuck it up, seemingly on purpose as they don’t proof all that much of their promo. My typos are there because I never see them, something similar I suppose.
In this case it seems like Miscavige did not go by misunderstoods as he surely has applied the datum – lie, lie, lie, more lies and then control a handful of blind followers.
The brightest ones, the ones that did not buy his lies have long ago departed.
I’d just like to confirm first hand experience of the point Mike has made about Facebook friends: Several years ago someone I knew well from the local org had asked for a refund, as well as identifying as an independent scion, they were on the friends list of most of the local scions, myself included. We had a member of staff first tell us we had to unfriend this person then go round and check each of our accounts to ensure we had. I’ve since lost touch with the person which is a shame as they were one of the people from the local org I actually quite liked.
Hubbard was very good at pointing out what other people were doing to one another, highlighting how “bad” these chaps were whilst doing exactly the same things to his own followers.
Hubbard knew how to control people and that involved lying to them. Take a long look at his writings, from the PDCs were he states that people who cannot prevaricate will go out the bottom, The Journal of Scientology were he states that the only way you can control anyone is to lie to them.( and you can write that down in big letters).
What about his essay on control, where is states that control is neither good nor bad but rather accomplished or not.(Fundamentals of Thought).
I recall being “chewed out” for not contributing enough to the expansion of my local Mission and this could be a reason to deny me my OT levels.
Eventually we all realized, Scientology is all about control. I hope that those still locked in get that “cog”.
Old Timer
That is the best summation of what LRH was doing that I have ever read. It is the cog that you need to unlock your Scientology cell of obedience.
Group hope in becoming “OT” “again” through the Bridge to Total Freedom spiritual counseling/exorcism procedures (and all the exercises).
Group hope. Faith group hoping for “OT” and pretending “OT” as best they have agreed “OT” can get for them each one as they attest to OT 7 and OT 8.
All the control is to mold them into faithful hopers and believers they are attaining “OT” step by step, using the Bridge spiritual quack therapy and exorcism.
I agree, Chuck. Its sad that Co$ has reverted to the oldest con game there is, promising eternal freedom, salvation, etc.in exchange for doing what one is told. “Life Everlasting, Eternal Peace, Total Freedom – call it whatever you like, here it is, folks, its yours for the taking, all ‘ya have to do is just what we tell’ya and nuttin’ else, its so easy, and by the way, put that nickel on the drum now.” Disgusting, I call it.
Well, no one knows better than LRH about control and lying. He was the King of the Con’s!
The Church of Lying Liars Who Constantly Lie & Lie About It.
Whoa! Man, do I feel dizzy!
That’s what happens when you take a chocolate out the box! Sweet for a bit, then the sugar hit subsides.
True.
A ‘Con’ followed immediately by a ‘Troll’. No one does it better than the Scilons. I wish I had Wognited on that a few decades earlier! 🙂
Hold on…Isn’t control a good thing? I mean isn’t that what Upper Indoc TRs are for – 8C – Control.
Control = Income.
And…income = power.
… and weekends off!
Damn right!
Control is a neutral thing. Ron was into super control of your ability to reason and think freely.
For instance:
1) if you had any judgement or reasoned criticism of Ron, it’s suppressive and awards you with sec checks to reprogram you mind.
2) if you have any doubts about clears or OTs, it’s suppressive and awards you with sec checks to reprogram your mind.
3) if you disagree with any doctrine that “infallible Ron” wrote, it’s an MU and you are awarded a word clearer to reprogram your mind.
4) if you hear a friend being critical of anything Scientology and you do not report them, you are considered to have a similar “overt”. You can get sec checked to reprogram your mind.
Control to help people is good. Control used to undermine free thinking is bad.
In Scientology if you have a critical thought based on your observation and understanding, you will be punished with the redefinition of the word “reasonable and open minded”.
I think the redefinition of “reasonable” and “open minded” should give all sovereign thinkers a deep inner shutter.
Talk about control!
Once a mind has accepted Ron’s redefinition of the words reasonable and open minded, it’s bye bye to true self determination.
Control is neutral. Learning to reason with good mind control is different from having your mind raped by bad mind control.
Bad control is bad
Good control is good. Ha ha ha! So simple.
Good control brings a sense of well being
Bad control rips your mind and heart out.
L Ron Hubbard, the KING of contradiction. (And lies)….. “a person does not blow due Overts or Witholds. He blows only due to ARC BKs. “However, if any of this information ever became public, I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole.” Signed, LRH.
” “a person does not blow due Overts or Withholds. He blows only due to ARC BKs. “However, if any of this information ever became public, I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole.” Signed, LRH.”
Yes, this must be one of the most evil statements of his that I’ve ever read. When I think of all the trouble people have gotten into because of this, my mind boggles.
This quote and the one above, tell me everything I need to know about the man.
Disgusting.
It’s too early for mental gymnastics!
Maybe after my coffee. 🙂
I was a mental gymnast once. I was a champion. But, it was all in my head…
What do your materials say?
Mine say, turn left at next light…
My book is silent on the matter. Maybe it’s faulty?
Sorry! You need to start over…
Damn AAA batteries! Why don’t they standardize things and make it easy? You mean, I’ve got to start it all over again, Book 1 page one? Aw well, at least I have an eternity to do it.
Sheesh! what are we talking about anyway?
🙂
Control is not inherently good or bad. It is the purpose behind the control that is the issue. A mother of a curious, enthusiastic, in love with life toddler holds his hand so he won’t run onto the busy street and get hit by a car. She is controlling her child for a good purpose. There are endless examples of purposes for good control, bad control, and viciously evil and utterly selfish control. What’s the true purpose at any given time for exercising control? The answer to that is to know the purpose for it. Pretty basic.
Wow.That’s dense.
The level of logic of the last ones in the bubble is hitting Amish and Islam levels.
What can we do with the Raphaels when they come out?
Sandwichboard man?Telemarketer?Scarecrow?Ticketinspecter on VTR(Venus Rapid Transit)
Wow! Sounds EXACTLY like El Con hisself. He must have guffawed as he wrote that one.
Yep! He was guffawing while counting his money.
So, when I grab a book of matches away from my three year old and smack his hand and tell him “NO!”…I’m lying to him??
This is a perfect example of Hubbard making bold, earth-shaking statements of “fact”, a “universal truth”, based on his “research” and vast experience and knowledge.
What rubbish.
I will say, this datum appears to be true within the Scn Bubble. But, there’s so much chronic lying it’s difficult to say.
Well, later he did make clear what he thought the difference was between good and bad control. Obviously, you are exercising good control when you are trying to keep your three year old safe. (But the CoS attempting to control my bank account – no shit, I was asked to turn over the details, I refused – is of the other variety to put it mildly, and when I saw that, and I saw that level of control immediately – I knew it was over for me and walked out the door after 35 years).
True. Hubbard had lots to say about the subject of control = can of worms.
Regarding your other point…since my first contact with Scn in 1982 there has always been an undercurrent of desperation. Not enough income, not enough people, not enough results, etc.
It felt like this desperation hit new levels around the time of The Truth Rundown (2009) and stayed that way until I was declared in 2014. All the staff that I dealt with at the AO were freaking desperate. It no longer was limited to money and people, it had transcended into thought. They were desperately trying to control what their members thought and felt about the church and Scn. Of course, that just pushed me away even further.
The pressure on these people must have been immense. Like trying to stop a mutiny. I’m certain this pressure came from on-high. I think DM felt he could expand Scn through force and force alone. Simply force the people under him (including public) to comply to his Command Intention and real expansion would happen. And there would be hell to pay for non-compliance.
So these staff members were worn down to the nub, little sleep, poor diet, doing lowers, threat of the RPF, unreal targets, big f*cking gun at their head. So, yeah, they were desperate. And desperate people do stupid things, unethical things.
My exit from the church (and the forces at work) was STUPID. No other word to describe it.
The church was like a wounded animal. Deep down you want to help it, but soon realize it’ll chew your arm off if you try.
So things have been getting bad in the church in recent years. Wonder if they have leveled off or if something unexpected is going to happen.
Why do you keep on defending him, Joe? He lied to us. Period. He lied like his feet stank. Excuses are for losers.