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Mike Rinder's Blog

Something Can Be Done About It

Conversations With Scientologists

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A couple of people have recently sent me copies of email correspondence they have had with people in the church.

They were not working together, but both hit upon the same concept:  responding to church efforts to get new people in or collect money from existing public and using this as an opportunity to present some facts to people they might not otherwise be able to reach.

It is also interesting to see the reactions, responses and “pitches” that are employed.

This first is with a Mission who had advertised a Big League Sales Seminar. The responses from the mission person are in blue. The person sending the message is Xxx, the person from the Mission is Yyyy

—

Hi – I would like to know more about this Big League Sales Seminar. I am in Sales but fairly new into it. Can you tell me more?

Thank you.

Xxx

————

Hi there,

Sorry I didn’t get back to you on time! We have the Sales Seminar once a month, so our next one will be the 20th of November. Our seminar concentrates on closing a sale and teaches the technique of hard sell (if your new to selling, this is probably the point that will hang you up!)

The seminar is given by Mitch Talevi and he is an amazing speaker. I usually go to this event myself and always get a lot out of it so I think you will enjoy it.

All the best,

————

Hi – Okay, thank you for getting back to me. Who is Mitch Talevi? Are there any books I can get to possibly read before the seminar? Is this free or what is the cost and will I be obligated or asked to spend money for anything else?

I don’t mind if that is the case but alot of these type of things are preparation for something else…lol.

I would like to come to the seminar and am excited about coming! What time and where is it at on the 20th. I am into pharma sales and am just starting out. While the company I work for provides good training – I am always looking to hone my skills.

Thanks for the info.

————

You are welcome!

Mitch Talevi is a very experience sales person who is familiar, and has a copy of, Les Danes book called Big League Sales. Many sales workshops, books, etc. are simply based off of this book, he was a master sales person. You can take a look at it, although the book costs upwards of $100! Mitch basically reads key points from this book, adds his own viewpoints, and has everyone drill it together. It is good practice.

The workshop is free, and we always make sure they you will get something out of solely coming in for that, but we do have other classes that are paid for and of course will help you even more. The majority of the people coming to our free classes do not continue on to the paid ones.

Wonderful that you are coming, I look forward to seeing you there 🙂

All the best,

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy:

That is awesome. Is Mitch Talevi working for the publishers of Big League Sales? I have never heard of it before. I am sure it will be a good seminar and I am planning on coming. What are the other classes you offer?

I am in the Pharmaceutical Sales and I like to tell my friends that I am a legal Drug Dealer – LOL

Seriously, the product is easy to sell – like giving candy to babies. It is the competition that is tough for me. I have to win over the Doctor’s so they choose our brand over others. That is what I need to figure out – how to win them over. Will this seminar give me any tips on that? What do you drill? Like a marching band drill or what?

Thank you

————

Hello,

May I ask, what is your name? I am getting curious!

Our professional classes are on the basics of communication, they teach you how to be in control of a conversation and really get your ideas across. We are a nonprofit religious organization that has many courses to help the community in all facets of life.

And no, Mitch doesn’t work for the publishers, he just comes to help us out by delivering this workshop, we have many volunteers who also give free talks at our center.

It will definitely help with winning people over! LOL! No, people pair up and practice selling each other using the techniques Mitch teaches you.

All the best,

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy – Okay, thanks for the information. By the way, my name is Xxx.

Nice to meet you Yyyy!

Will you be at the seminar? I hope we get to meet.

What is the non profit religious organization that you are affiliated with? Just curious.

I am young and starting out with this fantastic job. I want to do everything I can to improve my salesmanship. Yes, I think communication is very important. Sometimes it seems like people don’t like me and I have no idea why. I just meet a client and they seem annoyed by me calling. I would like to understand why that is and possibly be able to overcome that so I can get along with everyone. I am a go-getter and maybe too much for people…I don’t know.

Anyways, looking forward to hearing more about you. Are you in sales and when did you get involved with the seminars? Does the religious organization put these seminars on all the time or is this a one time deal?

Have a great day!!

Xxx

————

Hey Xxx!

So nice to know your name 🙂

Yes, a lot of people have build up “sales resistance”. (I’m starting to learn about this myself as I am hearing all these seminars!) It’s all about talking to people on their level, I’m sure you will get better at this, it just takes practice.

It is a mission group of the Church of Scientology. Have you heard of that?

Yes! I always go to these seminars (as well as my boss, whose name is also Yyyy!)

I work for the Mission, mainly to put on these free services we have for the community.

I aim to have one every week. We have one on Sales, one on Relationships, Predicting the actions of others, and Self Confidence.

I have different speakers I get to volunteer for these, promote the events and get to meet a lot of awesome people who are trying to improve themselves. 🙂

It is a mission group of the Church of Scientology. Have you heard of that?

So wonderful to hear from you, I look forward to your reply.

Al the best,

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy – Okay, don’t hate me please because I am trying to figure this out for myself. This was the best explanation of what I read about Scientology.

Have you heard of the analogy of boiling a frog in cold water? You start out with cold water and then slowly turn up the tempature. The frog does not notice because it happens slowly. Pretty soon the Frog is cooked and he could have jumped out of the pot many times – but he did not know what was happening.

I was up nearly all night reading horror story after horror story from members and staff of Scientology.

What I can see so far is that Scientology lures people in with some cheap courses that do help. They find their “RUIN” and then promise to help them.

Then, the staff “Love Bomb” those people.

I did not know what that meant so I looked it up and this is what it says:

love-bombing

Noun

(uncountable)

  1. An attempt to influence a person by lavish demonstrations of attention and affection.

The person feels better because they are going to a course to do something about their “ruin”, getting away from their environment, going someplace quiet to get away from source of problems etc – all valid therapies. The Staff are also being very nice to them – showing concern for their well being. That also feels good to anyone.

Once they finish the course and then are expected to continue.

They eventually spend hundreds of thousands of dollars going up a Bridge to Total Freedom. “Big League Sales” by Les Dane trains members to get other members to put money on account because they are convinced they have a reactive mind they need to get rid of and their reactive mind won’t want them to get better – so put the money on account to ensure your freedom.

Then – they sign legal contracts forbidding that money ever to be refunded.

In fact, isn’t it true that it is a high crime to ask for a refund?

I read that each Class 5 Church is sitting on at least $1,000,000 in undelivered services. According to L Ron Hubbard – that is a criminal exchange.

If member asks for money back – they are labeled an SP and other members are forced to disconnect from them or they can’t have their bridge they paid for or they will lose their family members too.

Can you explain this? Also, can I meet a Clear and an OT? Homo Novus – super powers….Really??? I would love to meet one!

Thanks for your time. I am really curious!

Xxx

————

Hey Xxx,

No, I don’t hate you, I figured it might be worth responding to your email though.

I don’t spend much time looking at what people have to say about my religion but what I have heard is pretty hilarious.

We are a new religion and are going through that pretty bad PR phaseI have noticed all major religions have gone through as they were starting out, Jesus Christ comes to mind.

When L. Ron Hubbard made his first discoveries on the mind, he did actually go to the American Psychiatric Association to share his findings, but they rejected him as nothing.

When his first book, Dianetics was published, become a bestseller and sold a hundred times over anything else on the mind, we were looked at as a competitor.

That is where most of these news reports, bad press come from.

I’m confused about most of your questions but no, you can ask for a refund.

All services are all things that can’t be returned (courses, counseling), but we do give total refunds if you are dissatisfied with what you received.

Where they got that whole story is probably the fact that afterwards, you cannot then buy another service.

Before we made that policy, there would be people who would go to a church, buy a bunch of counseling, receive it, say they were not satisfied, get their money back, go to a different church, buy some counseling, say they were dissatisfied, and rinse and repeat.

So, before you take a service, you sign that you are aware that you can receive a full refund if you are not satisfied with Scientology, but then can’t buy another service. (I don’t see the problem, if you didn’t like the service, why would you want to buy another one?)

And we are definitely not sitting on a million dollars of undelivered services haha. You will see our place, it is small. Everything else it confusing, losing family members? Super powers? Like what? I must be seriously missing out here. Haha.

I can give you attention, but you’ll have to go elsewhere for the lavish demonstrations of affection part.

All the best,

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy –

I have not been very religious throughout my life but am more spiritual.

like New Age stuff, especially Buddism – which is not New Age – it actually has been around for 2500 years and there is no God in Buddism.

Budda received enlightenment after meditating for 6 years and paved a path for us to “know ourselves spiritually and obtain Nirvana”. He gives a road map to spiritual awareness through simple mediation techniques and also following a moral code. I have been doing this for years and it changed my life. I stopped smoking, drinking and don’t do any drugs. I like keeping my mind clear so I live a clean life. Buddism helped me achieve that.

I am not an expert at this so don’t quote me…but that is Buddism in a nutshell.

I meditate everyday and it helps keep me stay calm and to become more aware. I have had moments of total bliss too. It is awesome. I have become so aware I know who to keep out of my life (toxic people) and who is good for my well being. It is a very simple and free path.

I know I am a spiritual being and that I have lived before.

I am interested in Scientology because it sounds like L Ron Hubbard obtained levels of awareness never achieved by man before.

I am somewhat interested in the Bridge.

How much does it cost to go Clear and what is a Clear? What qualities do Clears have that other people like me don’t have. Can I maintain my practice of meditation? Also, my girlfriend is a Christian and is somewhat interested. She wants to know if at any point it will be a problem in Scientology?

I am excited to learn more about Scientology and this Bridge.

Thanks. Xxx

————

Hello Xxx,

That is so wonderful to hear! You sound like a great person.

I actually have done some study on Buddhism (I am a trained Scientology Minister and in order to do that you have to study all major religions) and have quite a lot of affinity for it. If I have to compare Scientology to anything, it would be Buddhism.

We don’t believe in a God (but don’t not believe in one either) We are a non-denominational religion because we simply don’t go into. It is a set of practices and beliefs in order to improve oneself as a spirit.

I like to think that Scientology will make you a better Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. because all it does is make you more aware of yourself spiritually, and doesn’t negate anything else you may believe in. You can tell your girlfriend it won’t be a problem, many Scientologists are Christian, and Scientology and Christianity are on very good terms, we have both helped each other out when we were in tight spots.

Scientology has a really neat website, Scientology.org that should be able to answer some more questions of yours.

I believe what happened to Buddha that time under that Bodhi tree is what we call in Scientology “exteriorization”. It’s when you as a spirit separate from your body and am fully aware that you are not it. It gives you an exterior viewpoint on your life and helps to really see clearly. I have achieved this many times and know Scientologists who are permanently in this state, exterior to their bodies.

L. Ron Hubbard spent his early years traveling in the East and studying Buddhism, Hinduism and Lamaism. He spent time in these monasteries, learned the practices and saw some pretty magical things. He saw some people who were greatly helped by this, but also saw people who meditated, fasted and all these things there entire lives and never reached Nirvana.

Oddly enough, he then came back to America and took a class on Nuclear Physics. His goal was to find and study the smallest energy form, thought. What he did was codify the knowledge he learned in the East, by using science, to make it so everyone could achieve Nirvana. Scientology is scientific, it has all been rested and researched in the way he learned to at the Washington University.

Clear can probably be looked at as “Nirvana”, then LRH went beyond that, to OT.

For how much it costs, there is no fixed price. It takes longer or shorter for different people. It used to cost a lot more but our prices have recently been cut. The counseling is I think $100 an hour, and people are going Clear nowadays in 6 months. (This particular Church only takes you to Clear)

I know I haven’t answered all your questions but my hands are tired and I believe you should get pretty good definitions from our website. (use the search bar)

I look forward to hearing back!

Yyyy

————

Yyyy – this is all so interesting to me. I went to the website and while it is informative, it does not tell me what a Clear is. What exactly is a person that is determined to be Clear? Do they get rid of their reactive mind for good – like forever and what qualities would they have after they are Clear?

I have reached levels of Nirvana many times and my awareness keeps getting more and more keen – it is amazing. I meditate daily and would not want to stop doing that. Does Scientology have any problem with that – me being a Buddist and doing my practice?

I don’t know about exteriorization – separating the spirit from the body (I think you would be dead – LOL). I don’t quite understand what you mean. We don’t “exteriorize” in meditation but we do reach a level of awareness much like what a “drug addict” may be reaching for by taking drugs – a disconnection from the mind that is always thinking, always trying to solve problems related to survival. It is done through meditation.

There is no fee in Buddism because Budda felt one should not mix money with religion.

I love that – I can do it at home, at work, at the Meditation Center or in a park. It is simple and it works.

This Nirvana – when it happens – it feels really good and one reaches a level of awareness where they can sort of look at situations and problems from a point of view where they understand everything going on with that.

Are you Clear? Do you know any Clears?

I look forward to your response.

This stuff is really cool!!

Xxx

————

Hi Xxx:

Here is what I found on the site: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-dianetics/basic-principles-of-scientology/the-clear.html http://www.scientology.org/what-is-dianetics/basic-principles-of-scientology/attributes-of-clear.html#slide1 http://www.scientology.org/faq/clear/what-can-you-do-when-you-are-clear.html

That explains it better than I can, but basically you are you, there are no fears, irrational thoughts, or doubts in a persons mind.

It doesn’t mean they don’t get upset, that wouldn’t be sane either, they experience the CORRECT emotion for a given moment. If a family member passed away, they wouldn’t be happy, they would grieve, but they wouldn’t still be grieving a year after that, even a few months after that, they recover quickly.

In Scientology, we have a a very fundamental principle called ARC, you can learn about it here: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology/basic-principles-of-scientology/the-arc-triangle.html?video-play=scn6a_arc

Pretty simple, right? If you like things that you have things in common with, you would also have something in common with the things/ people you like. But it goes deeper than that. If you look at the things that you admire (have affinity for), such as: trustworthiness, courage, beauty, competence, etc. (whatever they might be for you, I’m just throwing things out there) than you MUST actually have those traits to admire them. Things about you that you don’t like, MUST then not actually be you.

They are from experiences, personalities, etc. in your past. A Clear is just himself. 🙂

Haha Alright that is fine, it was just my evaluation of it.

There is also no fee for practicing Scientology by yourself, as there is no fee in Buddhism. However I am sure that if you wanted an expert Buddhist to help you with your meditation, teach you or counsel you, there would be a fee. 😉

If you have a money consideration, you can buy a book that can teach you to DIY, and this is the recommended route for new Scientologists, you may to need a professional to take you the rest of the way to Clear but there are some people who have achieved the state outside the Church.

An even better way of going about it is taking a course at the Church, and doing what is called a co-counseling. You and say, your girlfriend, would both learn how counsel, then you would counsel her and she in exchange would counsel you. You can do this under supervision at the Church and get help when needed.

However, I do recommend you starting out by getting a book, trying it on yourself and see what you think about it first.

You would not have to stop meditating for getting a book and seeing what you think of Scientology, but we do recommend you not meditating while receiving counseling at the Church, it doesn’t mix well and will be a waste of your money.

I am right now on my route to Clear, I am co-counseling 🙂

So far, my span of attention has increased, I am no longer tied up in the past in ways I never knew that I was and have felt more and more enthusiasm and create for the future. There were things that would make me feel a certain way and no longer do, my shyness and self-doubt went away and I feel freer and happier 🙂 I am very excited to make it to Clear.

And yes, I know MANY Clears. Out of the 10 staff at our Mission, there are 6 Clears and many of our members are as well.

When are you and your girlfriend going to come by? I’d love to actually meet you.

All the best,

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy:

Okay, great – I had more time just now to read your e-mail again and check out the websites. It is helping me get the idea of a Clear but I am still not understanding this. I think the book “Going Clear” may help give me a total understanding of it. Did you read that book yet?

Now, what I am confused about (once again – please don’t get mad at me – help me understand), is that you said a Clear is just himself. I read some stuff about GAT I and GAT II and those Clears had to get re-Cleared because an SP got into the books and lectures and altered them so people who were experts and trained had the certificates pulled and had to start all over and Clears who were Clear before GAT I were not Clear and had to re-do the Bridge up to Clear again and pay for it all over again.

Can you explain this to me?

Thanks again Yyyy – I really appreciate your time and effort to help me – Xxx

————

Hi Xxx,

Hmmm… I don’t know this book by Lawrence Wright am pretty sure it won’t have the whole truth. Could you find one by L. Ron Hubbard? I know I myself have donated money to get Scientology books in Libraries, they should be there.

extra time spent on As for the GAT II thing, yes our religion has completely changed, there was a lot of little details that were changed from what Ron originally said, which added up to a lot of going up The Bridge.

People used to take 1 – 2 years to go Clear, now its as little as 2 months. (I gotta say, you picked the right time to get interested in Scientology!)

So yes, people previously made Clear did have to spend more money, but no, no one has had to re-do their Bridge.

All our professional “Auditors” have been shown the new ways and corrected on them.

In the meantime though, no one’s certificates were cancelled, you might as well shut down the entire religion!

All the best, Yyyy

————

Yyyy – thanks for responding quickly. I like talking to you!

Now, don’t hate me again, please. I am a bit more confused.

You said earlier in our conversation a while ago here that it took 6 months to go Clear, then this last time you changed it again. Now 1-2 years but in as little as 2 months. Why all this confusion?

Could I talk to the Clears at your Mission? You said you had several.

Do you get rid of the reactive mind and that is what makes you Clear?

Are you Clear? What does Les Danes Sales Techniques and the book “Big League Sales” have to do with getting rid of the reactive mind or Going Clear?

Where are you on the Bridge to Total Freedom? How much will it cost or what is the average cost that these Clears spent on Going Clear?

What comes after the Clear State?

I read that Dianetics states that a Clear has a higher IQ than the average Homo Sap – in fact, L R H called the Clear “Homo Novus” – the New Man. He says that a Clear never gets sick, can solve any problem and does not get upset. That is different than what you stated.

Where did you get your information on the state of Clear?

If you got it from somewhere other than Dianetics – Where did they get their information?

L R H says he is source and that one should only follow what he says.

Dianetics explains what a clear is but I don’t have Dianetics.

I looked for books at the Library – but there were only books on “Going Clear” by Lawrence Wright, “Inside Scientology” by Janet Reitman, Piece of Bluesky by L Ron Hubbard or about L Ron Hubbard and a few others…nothing else about Clear or Scientology. I asked the Librarian about books on Scientology and she told me they don’t carry them due to no demand.

I got the “Going Clear” book but have not started it. Why do you say that it is not probably all true?

Thanks for putting up with all of my questions Scientologist – but this is a big deal to me. If I am going to do the Bridge to Clear – I want to get as much information as I can get before I get started. I need to know the total cost and are their guarantees that I will be Clear?

Thank you Yyyy

Xxx

————

Hey Xxx,

So many questions!

Ok, many Scientologists are going Clear in 2 months, but they are spending all day everyday doing it. I didn’t think that was what you would be doing, I went for 6 months because I assumed you would be putting in an hour or two a day. It’s hard for me to say how long, etc. because it is different for different people. Some people take longer, some sooner. (and neither of them is good or bad, however long it takes you)

Yes, as a matter of fact, our speaker next Thursday at the Sales Seminar is Clear, and there should be some more staff there that is as well, but at least him.

Yes, you get rid of the reactive mind.

I am not Clear, I am en route. I explained this in a previous email. I am on my grades and have spent $2500 so far, but I am co-counseling (auditing) You can ask Mitch how much he spent but you will spend much less. It is taking less time then it was and ours prices are reduced 30 %.

No, Dianetics doesn’t state that, where do you hear that? There is A LOT of false data about Scientology out there, so much that that is why I am pretty certain Lawrence Wright’s book is also false. He read a book by L. Ron Hubbard and then wrote his own interpretation of it, at best. You are better off with the source.

I sent you links on what Dianetics says about Clear.

Everyone can go Clear, there is no one it doesn’t work for and you will definitely make it.

You are very welcome.

Yyyy

————

Hi Yyyy and thank you again for helping me understand this more.

I did manage to call the Org in LA and talked to guy there. He said you don’t get rid of your reactive mind but you do enough auditing to realize that you are mocking up your reactive mind up but can stop it and control it.

Simply stated, he said – You just do enough auditing so that you see how your reactive mind works and then you stop dramatizing the parts that are negative and destructive. He said it was pretty simple – just don’t talk about negative things and do anything bad to anyone and that was basically all a Clear is. It was not a big deal. He did not think it was worth the money charged and he was Clear after reading Dianetics at home. He said they still get sick and upset – nothing really changes but they can become a bit more arrogant. I did not understand that stuff.

He told me some people spend 10,20,30 years going Clear and will spend up to $500,000. He said most people don’t do that thing you are doing because it takes too long, there are no twins available and most small Missions and Orgs don’t have the staff to bring someone up to Clear. He recommended that I not put money on account at a Mission or an Org – I will end up not being able to use it due to lack of staff. What has your experience been?

I was so happy he gave me the hot tip – I thought I would pass it on to you. No need to waste any more of your time – you can just say you are Clear and don’t complain about anything.

Anyways – I am sure I don’t want to go Clear now that I know that. You probably did not know it – the guy has been in for like 40 years.

I will start that book by Lawrence Wright. I think it is good to look at all angles and views. That is what Budda teaches. Don’t believe anyone – think for yourself and do your own investigation and research about things and life including people. It is how I roll. 😉 Don’t mean to be a jerk – but lots of scams out there.

By the way, where did you get the information that he read a book on L Ron Hubbard and then wrote his own interpretation of it?

Yyyy – when you say things like that – it makes me wonder about Scientologist’s.

I don’t mean to be rude Yyyy – but I thought Scientology was the science of “knowing how to know” – an applied religious philosophy?

That it is a precise science and that Scientologist’s look – they don’t pass rumors and they think for themselves. They also speak freely and think freely. They don’t suppress others and they, themselves are free to talk about anyone on any subject.

Now, I don’t mean to sound shaming (I am not – I promise). But – You just passed on a rumor and did not do any research for yourself. Why would you do that? I am really curious. Who cares really – but that struck me as an odd thing to say. Why don’t you read the book and decide for yourself. THAT is what I thought Scientologist’s were. At least based on the websites.

I feel by now we can be frank with each other. I feel I can speak freely. You can too with me. 😉

I know you are excited about the Sales Seminar and so am I – but I am just trying to get facts to make a decision.

Bear with me and please don’t feel bad about this – the Buddha would say – “just notice – no right or wrong – good or bad” so why did you say that? It sounded too defensive.

Here is what I found out about Lawrence Wright and the Book “Going Clear” –

Lawrence Wright is a Pulitzer Prize Winning Author for General Non Fiction. He wrote 7-8 other books.

I did some research on him and he wrote the book: “The Looming Tower” Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11″. It spent 8 weeks on the New York Times Best Seller list. This guy is no chump. LOL One famous publisher pronounced his book one of the best 100 non fiction books ever written.

Among his peers Mr. Wright is known for his thoroughness. He is known as a fact checker to the point of annoying his assistants but he does not see that as a fault.

Now – I don’t know if this is a good book about Scientology or negative. By your response – I think you think it is negative. Why don’t you just read it and tell me what is not true and what is true about “Going Clear”? I would like to know what you think about it?

I saw some reviews that said Scientologists were not allowed to read books like this? Is that true?

Please tell me the truth Yyyy – I don’t want to get involved in anything that is going to tell me if I can read something or not. I believe in free speech and freedom. I am sure you do too.

We got off track but this is important to me. I still want to come to the seminar, if you are not too mad at me. Get that book and read it and let me know if Lawrence Wright did appropriate research?

Write back – okay?

Best – Xxx

————

Hi Xxx,

I did looked up the Lawrence guy. What I said was “He read a book by L. Ron Hubbard and then wrote his own interpretation of it, at best.” I was being optimistic. What he did was interview people who read books by L. Ron Hubbard.

If I can throw the same thing back at you, how is reading a book by someone who talked to someone (very thoroughly and well) who read a book on a subject not believing anyone and doing your own investigation and research about life and people?

If you want to learn about Lawrence Wright’s interpretation on other people’s interpretation on Scientology then it would be a perfect book, I just didn’t think that was what you were trying to observe here.

I very much agree with what you say, I just don’t see it in what you do, maybe we are applying the same principles differently. I was interested in Scientology, so I went into a Church and took a course. A few years ago, I was very interested in horses, I took riding lessons and then found it wasn’t all that exciting, so I haven’t gone since. That’s my idea of thinking and observing for myself. That’s Scientology’s idea of thinking for yourself, if that’s not your idea, then no, this is not for you.

If I wanted to know what Lawrence Wright thinks about Scientology, I would read that book, but I’m not. It is a negative book on Scientology (I know this because that fact is on his website). It’s not a lack of ability to think for myself.

Look at it this way, you are a Buddhist, it has changed your life and is invaluable to you. What if I were to tell you that Buddhism is a scam? What if I were to tell you that I am reading a book that proves it and dare you to read it as well? What if I were to say there was a very acclaimed author who interviewed people who tried Buddhism and it didn’t work for them and so wrote this book proving it? Would you read it?

I should hope not, because you KNOW what is true for YOU. You observed it directly, for yourself and it saved your life. Who am I to tell you what to think for it?

I can see you are a smart person and again, I don’t hate you.

But I feel very sorry for the person you talked to. Again, I like to observe things for myself and 18 years in Scientology has never shown me something like that. The LA Org’s number is 323 953 3200 and the receptionist is a friend of mine, hasn’t even lived for 40 years, so I don’t know where you called…

All the best,

Yyyy

 

And here is another one responding to the pitch for the “limited edition” meters that Flag was trying to unload (red, blue and green):

 —

Hi Walter,
I’m interested in finding out more about the limited edition commemorative meters that are being used to raise funds for the planetary dissemination project. Are any still available? I’m hoping to donate toward several sets to use as Christmas gifts for my family (as well as a set for myself). I think they would make wonderful gifts while also supporting the most important cause I can think of. Can you tell me what they cost individually and in sets of 3?
Peter
——
Dear Peter,
thanks for your comm.
The limited edition commemorative meters are funding THE biggest dissemination outreach project
for Dianetics & Scientology in our history: Our own Television & Radio broadcast station.
There are 500 of each color. They come in a beautiful case with the matching Trouble shooter.
The donation is $ 15,000.– with $ 9,000.- being a tax-write off.
(on a regular meter there is no tax-adventure).
You are right. It would be a wonderful gift and at the same time that energy is going into a project
which WILL GET SCIENTOLOGY INTO THE MAINSTREAM.
The whole property has 11 buildings, close to 5 acres.
I would like to talk to you as there is more data you absolutely need to have but I can’t put on an
e-mail.
 
ML Walter
503 Cleveland Str
Clearwater, FL 33755
Cell: 727-423-0240
 
——
Hi Walter,
Thank you for the information. Are there enough left for me to purchase 3 complete sets plus a single blue meter? Given that they are limited editions and going toward such an important cause I imagine they’re going fast! Let me know as soon as you can and I’ll begin arranging the financial details.
——
Dear Peter,
thank you and yes we have enough sets left plus a single blue meter.
These limited editions are all numbered edtions.
#1 – 100 are only sold in full sets.
obviously someone can choose a number which is higher given
that that number choosen is still available.
Yes the meters are moving fast now. Broad promotion (international mailings etc.)
 only started a couple of months ago and sales are picking up considerably.
Just today in the afternoon we sold 2 full sets so far. Public are obviously
thrilled to support the project as well receive a beautiful limited artifact
as acknowledgement.
My cell number is below or you can also call 727-638-9192 and reserve your
set.
 
Much Love,
Walter
503 Cleveland Str
Clearwater, FL 33755
Cell: 727-423-0240
——
Thanks so much for the data Walter, give me a couple of days to shuffle some finances and I’ll call you to get this finalized. I’m so excited to be able to help with this important dissemination project! Just imagine how wonderful it will be when we are broadcasting non-stop theta comm over the airwaves, the orgs are sure to be flooded with new public!
——
Dear Peter,
Thank you very much and you totally right regards what it will do regards reaching new public with
real solution.
There is one important thing I wanted to clear with you. Have you ever paid Flag for services or where
are you on lines. This is important. I checked in our Flag Finance system and your name doesn’t
come up.
Please answer that question or call me on my cell number.
ML Walter
 
503 Cleveland Str
Clearwater, FL 33755
Cell: 727-423-0240
——
Hi Walter,
I’m currently onlines at LA org (one of the reasons I’m so excited about supporting this project). I’ve never done services at Flag before. That’s on my BP for soon though!
I’ve just about got things set up on my end to pull the trigger on this. I should be calling you tomorrow afternoon or evening. So excited!
——
Dear Peter,
This is great news. Yea, LA org is a great org and with recent changes it’s a complete new
level of activity to say the least…….
Are you doing auditing or courses?
I am definitely looking forward seeing you here at Flag. That’s a totally new world when
you step in these amazing new FLAG BUILDING.
call me anytime with any questions as needed. I want to make sure the trigger is oiled well so
there is no delay when he get’s pulled. 🙂
ML,
Walter
503 Cleveland Str
Clearwater, FL 33755
Cell: 727-423-0240
——
Hi Walter,
I’m afraid I’m going to have to put this cycle on hold while I look into some things I was made aware of yesterday by a good friend. It seems that the retired CO of Flag, Debbie Cook, has made some rather troubling allegations about altered tech, criminality and an excessive focus on fundraising at the expense of the tech at Flag. Moreover Flag is also being sued in federal court for fraud for misusing donations by 2 former parishioners. This news is very disturbing to say the least as it casts serious doubts upon the honesty of this fundraising campaign.

Comments

  1. I love reading these emails. It’s amazing how long the Mission’s email kept up for and the guy didn’t see it coming. It shows how desperate the staff is for any attention from new public “interested in Scientology.”

    Yet again, Scientology as a “new religion” being stigmatized, is compared to Christianity and even Jesus, when it’s convenient to do so. Of course, the real sentiments towards Christianity and Jesus are withheld from new public. That Jesus is a figment of the imagination, an implanted image (a man on a cross) and a “lover of young boys” (not my words, LRH’s). There is no room for Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, etc in Scientology, except for secular/cultural practices only. If someone wants to fast, pray, take communion, chant or meditate, then they are engaging in other practices and this is frowned upon. You will not be given the okay to do OT levels if you are openly practicing another religion and its rituals.

    Buddhism is also frequently compared to being “the closest thing to Scientology”. I have to disagree because Buddha never charged a cent for enlightenment and money and business enterprise were never a part of Buddhism.

    Reply

    • i was once called into “ethics handling” due to mentioning the word: “angel” during a session!!! No kidding, that was “practicing other beliefs.”

      and I tried to explain that I only used it as an expression; shame on me.

      Reply

    • For ANYONE to say that Buddhism is close to Scientology is ignorant, offensive and somewhat humorous. IF ANYTHING Scientology might be close to Buddhism.
      Good grief. Seriously. LOL

      Reply

  2. This is a brilliant approach.

    First step: try to get them “entheta” information by a campaign of e-mailing them to get information about events. Then, when that’s discovered, it’ll be forbidden and the cult will no longer respond to e-mail from (legitimate) prospective members.

    Second step: start sending people in to ask the same kind of gentle questions, “implanting” doubts. Then publish the transcripts of those discussions on Mike’s blog or Tony Ortega’s. Then, when DM reads those, he’ll forbid anyone from letting any non-members in the door. He’ll be so obsessed with keeping staff from reading “entheta” that he’ll forget that new prospects are the life blood of the future of the organization.

    It’ll be a bad case of “throwing out the baby with the bathwater,” but that’s what Miscavige has shown himself to be exceptionally good at.

    Reply

  3. Thanks for this super-entertaining reading Mike! It kind of makes me want to jump in and join the fray. If I get anything interesting, I will send it right along to you. Maybe you could have a weekly feature of these?

    I feel like what Xxx is doing is important “outreach” (or “inreach”) and a component of a humanitarian deprogramming process.

    Reply

  5. Interesting exchange and portrays where the church is at: sell, sell, sell.

    The Mission guy wrote this: “The majority of the people coming to our free classes do not continue on to the paid ones.”

    Why in god’s name will you mention that to a new person? Is just so out pointy.

    Also it shows the “world the staff have been given to believe in and how hard they are stuck into it”, meaning, anything else besides present time orders to sell is discarded as useless and forbidden.

    Cult is what this ‘religious group’ truly is.

    Reply

    • I think what this 18 year Scientologist, mission staff member meant to say is “while this IS a trap, very few people get caught in it, so it is safe for you to come in and find out what it is about because most people walk away”…. mmmm oh oh mystery sandwich ….said the spider to the fly..

      Obviously this 18 year staff member (that is not Clear yet) did get caught. He/she speaks in muffled tones through the spider’s finely wound web…. a cult is right, Silvia.

      Reply

  7. “I want to make sure the trigger is oiled well so
    there is no delay when he get’s pulled. :)”

    Looks like the oiliness table is having some advantages for Walter.

    I always liked Walter. His partner in crime, Rudy Kempner was a bit, well RUDE if you ask me. They do the good cop, bad cop routine pretty well. Walter told me how he sold off his inherited family farm to help save the planet and gave the proceeds to the cult. Sad tale.

    Reply

  9. First note about the Ultra OT 8 meter giving case gain.
    It’s maybe just as sensitive as a Quantum meter, the problem is the training the auditor has to operate it and tech applied.Carrie Alkins went to Flag, got audited on a Ultra OT 8 .
    meter. She came home spouting wins left and right and praising Flags technical perfection and then dropped dead !!!!

    I went to the Les Dane seminar given by Les Dane at Flag on Big League sales in 1980’s.
    Ballroom of the Fort Harrison,first thing was we were directed to the chapter on calculating how much money the prospect can afford ( by Les Dane himself) He had us X out all the pages of that chapter because in his own words “It didn’t work” don’t use it.
    We drilled the remainder of the book.

    Scientology is free
    you can go up the Bridge in the Sea Org
    Expansion is 47 X
    There are 10 million Scientologist’s on Earth.
    Flag is Ron’s Org
    The Easter Bunny lays chocolate eggs
    Santa Claus has a slay and Raindeer that fly
    David Miscavige is your friend
    The check is in the mail.
    The IAS will Clear the Planet

    Reply

  10. It’s a bit disheartening it’s real peoples lives being discussed and displayed here.
    I think (hope) we’ll reach the bottom of the barrel pretty soon. It’s pretty easy to set up a rank & file $cn’gst, just get in comm, but I see this style of interrogation similar to what the public watching the gladiators in the arena would have done to Christians they met in the street. ESMB & Ortega’s site excels at it.
    There isn’t anything pleasant about corporate Scientology is there? The sooner it’s gone the better, it’s fast becoming the game where nobody wins – even it’s critics.
    I guess there’s no such thing as swift justice either but its entertainment value has created a life of it’s own.

    Reply

  12. Anybody know what the “data you absolutely need to have” about the commemorative e meters that Walter can’t put in an email?

    Reply

  13. Just look at what this staff member is wasting his time on. blah blah blah blah blah And it’s all surrounding a free sales seminar having absolutely nothing to do with spirituality, truth, as-isness or case gain. How off purpose can you get, spending gobs of time emailing, so someone can sell more pharmaceuticals? Even on their own terms, the rcs is grossly off purpose, and is drowning in self developed, unnecessary traffic. Next they should go into the clown business, they are already humorously bizarre and frightening.

    Reply

    • ” a free sales seminar having absolutely nothing to do with spirituality, truth, as-isness or case gain. How off purpose can you get,”

      Hallie J,
      It’s not like $cientology has anything to do with those things either these days! 🙂

      Reply

      • So true Coop – Ideal Orgs, big buildings, IAS donos, Ideal Orgs, Slappy’s IAS donos, big EMPTY buildings – THAT is all Scientology is about and it is an epic eccleastical failure.

        By the way, someone said this was “Scientological WARFARE”. LOL – love that – cut their comm lines, make them so paranoid they won’t talk to anyone. Then – the panels will be the only allowable source of communication eminating from a source point in the big empty buildings. LOL

        Reply

    • Hallie Jane, I’m tracking with you. This desperate staff member probably thinks that helping someone do better in their business is an “in” to getting him on lines at the org. Actually it sounds like they’re stealing a page from WISE’s playbook.

      Reply

  14. Boy do I empathize with the woman from the mission. Been there, done that, got the Patron T-shirt.

    After being out, the conversation takes on a different color.

    Scientology, the subject and the experience is a vastly complex subject. I am convinced that to understand it, one must collect and analyse data from many, many different sources, of varying degrees of credibility. Only then can you even begin to grasp the full picture. This takes time and effort.

    Obviously Scn does not want you to do this. Instead they propose the overly simplistic idea of “what is true for you is what you have observed to be true” (which, by the way, I think is hogwash). But, it seemingly empowers the prospect: he’s in-charge, he’s intelligent, he has powers of observation. So he visits the org and finds friendly dedicated staff, tidy environment, not at all cult-like. Step one complete. They will then seek to become the ONLY source of information for the prospect on the subject of Scn.

    None of this happens overnight. But slowly the prospect’s ability to critically analyse information is being eroded. Combine that with the allure of Clear and OT, well…the poor sap doesn’t have a chance.

    Reply

    • That or completely clueless as per standard requirement for staff member. Rest assured the Jack Boots at OSA are on a rampage to find out the real name of Yyyy per little Dave’s orders. “Find him and bring him to me!”

      Right on Darth. Will do Sir.

      Yo Dave,
      All of us apostates have someone we are working on out here on the fringes of the internet. Have you ever wondered just how you are going to defend your troops when we can sit out here on the edges and just take pot shots at your stupidity. Why don’t you clamp down on security a little more? Hey, and what about finding the assholes that are leaking the OT Committee reports? Have you got that figured out yet? Carry on good buddy, your end is near or did I get it backward? You are near your rear end.

      Reply

    • That’s because the bridge was not standard as you’re characterizing it and therefore is not being redone. (Thank you Tommy Davis).

      Reply

  16. Those communication exchanges really show the desperation of the church in attempting to reel people in. Man, that is frustrating because I have been there too as a staff member. I wish all the scn organizations would just close tomorrow and set everyone free and everyone would soon figure out why. Back when the Savings and Loan offices were closing down in about 1989 one would go to their bank and suddenly find a big chain on the door with a notice as to where to go to pick up their check. That is what needs to happen with all scn organizations. I wish we could give this job to the FDIC.

    Reply

  17. He’s an accomplice who has been in waaaaaay too deep to pull his head out. Mitch thinks that if someone is paying lip service to the cult in order to keep a safe distance that they are “1.1 to Scientology”. He stopped thinking for himself a loooooong time ago.

    Reply

  18. Wow – that was amazing. I see how the LIES start right in the beginning. The person selling the Les Dane Sales stuff is clearly in a state of Confusion. Going Clear in 6 months and has been in for 18 years? So strange. No wonder Scientologist’s want to meet in person and not communicate in writing. It is easy to catch the LIES and the confusion they are in.

    The e-meter stuff was just great. I wonder if the Staffer had this on his Stat sheet and the carpet ($$$$$$$) was yanked away before Thursday at 2pm. OUCH!

    So much for clearing that bank account!

    Thanks for the post MIke – great job to all involved.

    Reply

  19. This reminds me of ScamBaiters, people who scam the scammers. It ties them up and if enough people do it, it makes it hard for them to scam real people because they are waisting their time with someone who is playing them instead. But this is so great because you are educating them too. Also I might add that their paranoia will be through the roof and they will snap on people really trying to talk to them and end up driving them away.

    http://www.419eater.com

    Reply

  20. I love the back and forth {and so on and so forth} of Xxx and Yyy. My first rule in dealing with scammers is keep them on the line and string them along. At least you keep them from calling the next potential victim on their list.

    The commemorative emeter exchange is even better. Dangle the prospect of a big sale {and big commission} and watch the guy jump through hoops. Throwing in the Debbie Cook email was perfect justice and potentially thought provoking too.

    The ‘tax adventure’ line was brilliant piece of Lroonian logic. Too bad it feel on deaf ears.

    This is my favorite way of dealing with a scammer.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/what-happens-when-you-string-along-a-phone-scammer/story-e6frfkp9-1227103604320

    Reply

  22. “What if I were to tell you that Buddhism is a scam? What if I were to tell you that I am reading a book that proves it and dare you to read it as well? What if I were to say there was a very acclaimed author who interviewed people who tried Buddhism and it didn’t work for them and so wrote this book proving it? Would you read it?”

    Hell, yes!

    If someone told me that anything I cared about was a scam, and there was a very acclaimed author who had written a book proving it was a scam, then I would want to read that book as soon as possible! If I later learned that people who cared about me had NOT told me about this book, knowing how important the subject was to me, then I would be pretty annoyed!

    Also, if people related to that subject told me I must NOT read that book, I would be highly suspicious, and it would want to make me read that book even more! In fact it would start to sow seeds of doubt in my mind if I was told I couldn’t read something critical.

    Finally, if I was told that by simply reading the book it would actually harm me, then my alarm bells would be ringing so loud I would probably walk out the door then and there, and would walk to the nearest book shop to buy the book.

    If, after reading the book, I felt that the author was completely biased, or had completely misunderstood the subject, or had got his facts wrong, then I would be satisfied that I had read the book, but it had reaffirmed my belief that the subject I cared about was a good one. I would also be prepared for the next time that someone asked me about the book. I would be able to tell them that yes I had read it, and why I disagreed with the authors conclusions.

    If, however, I found that the critical book contained lots of valid points and concerns about the thing I cared about, and was maybe even a scam, then I would DEFINITELY want to know about it!

    I.e. – there is no downside to reading the book, there is only upside.

    Reply

    • One legitimate reason to not read a book is that reading books takes time, and time is in limited supply, and we have to make choices about what not to read for that reason. That’s why I don’t read Dan Brown books. I suspect that they suck, but I don’t have time to find out for sure.

      In any case, I’ve never heard of Scientology telling its adherents not to read anything for lack of time (which in itself would be ridiculous, considering how much time is wasted in Scientology rituals like yelling at ashtrays).

      Reply

      • I’m not sure that a Dan Brown piece of pulp fiction (which probably sucks) is comparable to an expose by a Pulitzer Prize-winning author of the new religious movement you have dedicated your life to.

        I would make time.

        Reply

      • HGC 10 – I was pulled into Ethics for having “The Secret” and recommending it to other Scientologist’s to read and had to do an amends lower condition deal.
        Scientology does not want to have their members read “The Secret” because then they will know
        “The Secret” and Scientology can’t $ell them “The Secret” and that would make Miss Cabbage very, very uncomfortable. $elling the $ecret has put hundreds and hundreds of John Lobb Shoes on the little man’s little feet.

        Reply

    • Good comment Sid. Yeah, they are afraid of catching SP cooties and getting hit by a bus. Reaction to toxic people/SPs/sociopaths can be very temporary and spending your life avoiding this is SO living in an effect position. True data is so inoculating, it puts you in a knowledgeable position, exercises your critical thinking skills and lets you digest and process everything against YOUR OWN point of view and integrity. I would rather have all the data but of course, I retain the right to not read everything. The original goals of Scn were to become spiritually stronger, more aware and more capable, not to become less perceptive, by limiting first hand perception to what someone else allows. This is so obviously not the path to spiritual growth and enhancement. As an auditor, I always had a win when someone dealt with a toxic, critical person effectively and felt more causative and in valence. Some very whimpy people got very capable and confident over time with help. Confronting these things is not easy. Humans can be so arrogant, these conversations remind me of failures to best or harness mother nature. The current Scngsts think they can ignore the karma that is already in play, tsk tsk……they may as well toss a beer bottle into a tornado. llllllll

      Reply

    • Yes! I was hoping to see a couple more exchanges that covered this. Your reply is exactly what I have written. Your hypothetical reply could also plant more seeds of doubt. Too bad the person cannot read what you wrote.

      Reply

      • I loved that you planted seeds of doubt, well hopefully they will doubt. I can tell the Cof$ is desperate for new people because several times he said he made his money by selling drugs for a pharmaceutical company. He/she never once took that up. In the old days they would have wasted this prospect because he was working for “the enemy” and pushing prescription drugs and connected to psychs. Now she still tried to bring him in. I guess money trumps all out A to J stuff these days. I bet they’d even let OJ Simpson in the church if he waved enough money around.

        Reply

    • I have to say, when it comes to viewing a movie or show or to reading a book or an article, forbidding me to watch it or read it is a highly effective way to ensure that I will eventually do so.

      I can have someone’s viewpoint that it is awful, upsetting, harmful, untrue, a waste of time because I won’t learn anything, etc., but, barring what would be instances of invasions of privacy, I wouldn’t advise any person or group to FORBID me to watch or read anything.

      Reply

  23. Yyy’s correspondent reminded me of being in that mindset. I always felt like I wasn’t telling the truth even though I was answering questions the way I was “supposed” to. Thank Xenu I’m not there any longer and I wish the same for Yyy and everyone else involved.

    Reply

    • I actually thought yyy did a pretty good job of giving the pat WIS-style answers to xxx’s questions. Problem is, those answers are half-truths at best. Twenty, thirty years ago you could get away with this but the internet-savvy world has grown up and left Scientology behind.

      Reply

  24. The remaining Scists are becoming animals in a zoo. We poke and we prod them in the Org Cages. The obedient animals of the DM genus do what is expected, act with glee, all butterflies and happiness, then complete bewilderment when the proffered sunflower seed never enters the door.

    Reply

    • And we all know exactly where the zoos are so we can take a Sunday afternoon, cruize on down to the local animal farm and check out the new species of humanoids that have been discovered there. Apparently they like to reside inside empty buildings called morgues and they don’t need any other flora or fauna around which is often referred to as outside interests or ‘other fish to fry’. I understand they are mostly vegetarian and eat lots of rice and beans.

      Reply

      • After Dave gets wind of today’s post you know he will be furious about the lame A-Hole Dilettantes at the morgues and missions. Look for him to forbade any communication with raw public unless approved by an OSA Bot……. or Himself. I hope he chooses the latter …..

        Yo Dave,
        I have a couple questions for you about $cientology. Are you qualified to answer them? Call me, you have my number and there is an answering machine as well. Leave a message ……….

        Hey, just had a thought. Why not put Lou in charge of handling outside communications ……. that way you can keep a close eye on things to make sure everything is smoothed out!

        Reply

      • I think you got that right Cooper; it’ll come down to only one of their machines will be able to answer letters or emails. The “personal touch” is gone.
        Or maybe they’ll be another “What Do You Do Drill?” for answering letters and emails. It’ll all be rote.

        Reply

      • Re: We ape Dave, commit financial rape for Dave and try our best to always placate Dave.

        “I declare Dave has treated me with kindness,
        With kindness,
        With the utmost kindness,
        I declare Dave has treated me with kindness and understanding.

        “I declare Dave is an executive like no other,
        Executive like no other,
        Executive like no other,
        I declare Dave is an executive like no other.

        “I declare Dave has helped every single Scientologist in the world,
        Scientologist in the world,
        Scientologist in the world,
        I declare Dave has helped every single Scientologist in the world.”

        http://www.freedommag.org/sites/default/files/declaration06.pdf
        http://www.lawrencewrightgoingclear.com/sites/default/files/App11-Jenny%20Linson.pdf

        Reply

  25. I was reading Xxx and Yyy in a restaurant and burst out laughing several times.

    They are spending their efforts hiding they are Scientologists. The future of this group looks pretty dim if you can’t even say who you are. When a group’s only means of survival is hiding and ambushing, you know the end is near because we live in the Internet Age where hiding is impossible.

    Reply

    • Reminded me of when my husband “disclosed” to his auditor that he didn’t reveal to his clients that he was a scientologist. MAA handling convinced my husband to do so. So, he did with one client. Then he lost that client.
      Lessons learned.

      Reply

  26. Thought stopping at its finest. No contrary idea can possibly penetrate the fervent belief that everything is wonderful now and all the SPs are gone and Davey has fixed any and everything that was ever bad. Would have been fun to ask the guy just how many people have actually gone clear in just two months. And how many have NOT.

    Ahhhh Mitch Talevi. Nice guy. Love bomb you to death. His first rule in handling a prospect is NEVER care about the prospects personal finances. He’s made millions selling services at Flag. He also now believes in the “new tech.” If someone is not happy with their Flag auditing or experience, it MUST be the PCs fault.

    If not for salesmen like Mitch, Flag would have gone bankrupt years ago. I’m pretty sure he’s completely convinced himself of the veracity of his sermons.

    Reply

    • I saw him years ago at Flag when he was there to complete VII. He knew he was done and the D of P agreed with him, and the CS as well. But he was not allowed to attest to completion of OT VII at that time because his mission, The Brand Blvd Mission, was not doing well. Stats were down, not much public etc. The church wanted him to boom the stats and then they would let him comp. That way an OT VII wouldn’t look bad for running a non-viable mission. Mitch agreed with it and went home to handle the Msn.

      Reply

  27. Dear Walter,

    Would love to see an auditing demonstration of the meter by David Miscavige before purchasing. Do you have a video I could watch?

    Reply

  28. Yyy claims it takes about 6 months to get to Clear and that he/she is working towards Clear, then eventually reveals that they’ve been a Scientologist for 18 years. Really?!

    Reply

    • What clams reveal when they sniff (what – not even a sale!) an attendance at a free seminar.

      OTOH I can see how that ‘try it for yourself’ argument snags people who are persuaded (or persuade themselves) they are free thinkers

      Reply

  29. “On a regular meter there is no tax-adventure.” I guess you only get the “adventure” with the warehouse 8s. Not sure what kind of adventure you can have relating to taxes, though.

    Reply

    • Yea. I didn’t get that either. Does that mean a regular meter is a tax write-off? Dang. Wish i would have known that several years ago.

      Reply

      • This is a tiny thread someone should do a paper on.

        Do a listing of all the “special properties” Scientology bookstore and Pubs Orgs and ASI sell, and on the “special properties”, do a breakdown of exactly how much tax the person can count, as opposed to value of the “special property”.

        The leftover “profit”, but it’s not called that, that goes to the campaign, I forget where it goes, but it goes into a similar chain of accounts hiding the fact that it doesn’t really go to any campaign.

        This is a good thread, the “special properties” money trail, the trail of actual accounts that the untaxable “donation” portion actually goes, I don’t believe has ever been audited in recent years carefully.

        Auditing (wog auditing financially) of the “special properties” money trail for all the Scientology related entities that sell these special properties, would be an interesting money story.

        Reply

    • Taking Uncle Sam up the butt AND the parishioner simultaneously – some might say that’s pretty adventurous.

      Reply

  30. I’m amazed the salesperson selling the Big League Sales Seminar kept at it for so long. He or she should have smelled what was coming after the first two posts. They must be really desperate. Xxx was brilliant in pushing information through though!

    Reply

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