Of course, when you are being investigated for rape —
“The Los Angeles Police Department Robbery Homicide Division, Sexual Assault Section, is conducting an investigation involving the actor Danny Masterson. Three women have come forward and disclosed that they were sexually assaulted by Masterson during the early 2000’s,” Hollywood Reporter
— you have to do more than hire a prominent criminal defense attorney and a private investigator.
You have to make it appear that you are an all around good guy who really cares about kids. So you do a round of golf.
No actual work or sacrifice yourself, just put your name on a round of golf with the guys and make it the “Cool List”.
How about doing something for rape victims DJ Donkey Punch? Like even acknowledging they exist for starters…
This is is so classically scientology. Ignore the reported abuses. Blame the victims. Then do a photo op “helping kids” or “championing human rights”. All that’s missing is some official proclamation about what great work is being done. Hubbard PR 101.
Hello Again.
Doing my favorite pastime of reading your good messages, and watching the interviews and information on my computer.
I ran across a woman who was in the cult for quite a while it seems. I do not believe that she was from America, but was so interesting that I have to share with you and hope that you can find it.
Her story was that she was forced to have an audit over and over again (13 times) so that Scam-oh-golly-gee could get something really, really bad on her. She would give some information of being late, or asking a wrong question, but the person doing the audit wanted something really big, so that Scam and company, could hold it over her. Finally she got what they wanted, and said “OK, I am going to come clean, and tell you my deepest secret. I found a lab where they had a “death ray” that would go to outer space, and I (big sigh) turned on the ray, and blew up several planets.” This woman said the auditor’s eyes got really big and was amazed and pleased that she had finally gotten something really big on this woman (and of course would not be punished for not being able to get a dark secret from her). The upshot was that the auditing ended as they now had something to use against her.
Oh, this lady said it cost her 50k for the privilege of being yelled at day after day.
This might be something that everyone might look at, when the cult can show that an SP can and has done this or that and has signed that fact, or they have a record of the interview, be it on paper files or a video. Their practices of documenting is wrong, their cult is wrong, and they have hurt way too many people. Time for the end of this cult.
As Leah said in her interview: “You just sign anything that they put in front of you, and you don’t get to read it.”
Lance Caldwell.
Lance, that was a video by Karen de la Carriere, who is well known in this movement. Interesting coincidence, I watched the same video last night. All kinds of details I hadn’t known about Jo’berg sec checks. Quite gross! Yikes!
Hello again.
I watched the interview of Leah finding out the top secret message of the story of Xenu again. You can see all the videos on your computer. I noted that this program alone has 1,113,999 hits. Is the message getting out? I would say that it is. Good Job Leah, Mike, and all of your brave guests. Looking forward to October 10th for the new season. I am sure that DM has had a popcorn machine put in his office so that he can watch the “Aftermath” programs in style.
Lance Caldwell.
Why is there a statute of limitation for rape?
Because these laws were made by men for the benifit of men.
Typo on ” Benefit” ooops!
Hello Everyone.
I am just curious, and perhaps you who have gone beyond level-3 and first learned about Xenu and his goings on. When you went higher up in the crazy list, was there any other “secrets” of space folks, or anything else that made all the money spent on this cult worth while, or was Xenu and gang the one trick pony show. Kind of a let down if that is the case.
Lance Caldwell.
Hello Everyone.
Check out the interview on “You Tube” “Better Believe It: Steve Cannane on Scientology in Australia.” It is long, hour and something, but well worth the time. I did not know that DM dressed his dog up in Commander garb and everyone who came in the room had to salute the dog. If the dog barked, than it was supposed (by DM) that the person in question had done something wrong. This guy is more strange than even LRH. LOL.
Lance Caldwell
Mr. Masterson who thinks its funny that we, the public, would say anything negative about his “church” since it’s still in its infancy (only 50 years or so), and then tell us all about the wonderful things that the organization does but none of us ever see in real life (have we ever seen any of the volunteer ministry on TV helping out during any disaster wearing those bright yellow shirts?) now gets the benefit of the wagons circling around him for getting his girlfriend in the “church”. Yes! he did his celebrity best and got his That 70’s Show co-star and girlfriend in quietly and voila! protection.
But now he’s suddenly marching proudly on for “kids rights and protection” Yea! We can all get behind that except that its for kids to stay away from those nasty psychs! boo! But the only Human Rights I can see that he is chasing a little white ball around for is his own. After all, I am sure that he cannot see his backside in a prison for rape, with his “human rights” to vote and whatever else felons are restricted to for the rest of his life. After all, it is the girl/woman’s fault for her own predicament, just as it was his fault for not keeping little Danny in his pants if that is indeed what happened. To follow the scientology logic, it is his fault he finds himself in his state. I am guessing he will be paying a lot in auditing fees and legal fees while this goes through court and the “church” will be renting a backhoe to cover it up.
Uggghh the topic of rape makes me sick – there should b no statute of limitations on rape as with murder!! It doesn’t matter what the cult hides or tries to cover-up -the law is the law of the Americas & cult members must abide by them regardless of belief – Danny Masterson must b punished by our judicial system as any rapist would b – thanks Mike as always for continuing the fight for victims. …
Henni, I have bad news for you. In the USA, most rapists are never charged, let alone convicted, let alone sentenced to prison. What most rapists in this country receive is exhoneration by the police, who believe it’s the rape survivor’s fault, that s/he invited it. The police are generally on the side of the rapist. In 1986, I went through what rape survivors experience to this day. The defense attorney outright told me in court that I had enjoyed it, including being punched in the eye repeatedly. The county prosecutor – who was supposed to be on my side – repeatedly begged me to accept a plea bargain from the rapist for simple assault. I said No over and over and over again. Since the rapist lived nearby and had raped and beaten me in my home, I had to move, and he then stalked me at my new home for seven months, several times a day, every single day without missing one. I had to hide in my new home every single day, and feared for my life any time I had to leave for work or return home, as well as every time I saw him cruise by my home slowly at night or in the daytime.
I did a smart thing. After he raped me, he left. About a half-hour later, he attempted for quite a while (well over an hour) to break back into my residence; I thought he was coming back to kill me. It was then that I did the smart thing: I phoned 911. 911 is recorded – every single call from start to finish. It was the 911 tape that stopped the attempts at plea bargaining. The prosecutor told me that when he played it for the defense attorney, the latter turned pale. His next step was to tell the rapist to plead guilty, because he would certainly be convicted.
He was sentenced to 3 years in prison with time off for good behavior. In all, he served a sentence of a year and a half. That was three decades ago, and I’m still serving my life sentence.
Most survivors will say something similar as far as having to serve for life. Most survivors don’t report the crime. They’re often described in social media as evil people who changed their minds after consensual sex and are now accusing a poor innocent victim. Even their friends may describe them this way. The police usually view the survivors through this lens and many refuse to take the report, or file it in the round file ASAP. If they take it, the prosecutor too often sees survivors, whether male or female, through the same lens of “evil person harming the real victim” and won’t proceed forward. A very small percentage of rape cases result in conviction, and anyone who actually does get their day in court will usually face public humiliation. And almost anyone who proceeds to court must undergo that public humiliation when they are at their most traumatized.
Mike and Leah, thank goodness, don’t treat survivors of rape and other types of assault by Scientologists as something that the survivor deserves, or refuse to believe the survivor. They encourage them to speak their truth and THEY BELIEVE THEM. This is THE most important thing one can do for any rape or sexual crime survivor. They may be the only ones the survivors have encountered who do believe them. Thank goodness they do!
From reading Mike’s blog, Mark/Marty’s blog before he returned to Scientology defense, the Underground Bunker, ESMB, Clambake, talking way back when with Keith Henson (a member of the same geekly circles as my late husband), reading every book on the subject from former Scientologists that I could find, etc., I know a little bit about Scientology for a never-in. I know, too, about the dynamics of power-over in sexual assault and rape. Rape is not about sex. I know most of all about living as a rape survivor and fighting back for those like me.
Anyone who is coping with surviving rape, sexual abuse and/or rape when a child, and/or an abusive relationship of any kind, you’re welcome to get in contact. I would like to offer you a listening ear, a shoulder if you need it, empathy because I’ve been through every bit of that, someone to have your back, and belief in what you’ve gone through. If you’re dealing with these experiences because of Scientology, Mike and Leah are the best folks to contact. For anything else, or extra help of any kind, I offer myself as a laywoman who has been there.
Now I understand, in part, where your attitude may come from. Your only experience was this situation, long ago. If you had ever had someone really close to you, a female relative, say, a sister, wife, daughter, mother, be sexually assaulted, and had to live through their hurt, pain, fear, trauma, loss of feelings of self-worth with them, and see what it did to them, you would be a lot more empathetic and understanding. My guess is that you actually do know a female who has been sexually assaulted, they just haven’t talked to you about it. Part of the reason may be your attitude about it. If you ever gently, non-judgementally, caringly inquired about this subject to females who are close to you, I’m guessing you would be surprised at what you find out.
This comment was a reply to Aquamarine’s comment below:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/danny-masterson-trying-to-shore-up-his-pr/#comment-193063
Please excuse my posting in the wrong spot; it doesn’t seem to be taking when I choose “reply” and posts as new comment instead. Thanks.
Tasha, I think you’re responding to me in this post.
You’re right, I never had a daughter or a sister or mother or friend who was sexually assaulted (who told me about it.) That’s true.
But here’s what happened in my family, long before I was born:
My mother’s people came from Italy. They were peasants, illiterate peasants and part of a vast wave of immigrants who came here in the late nineteenth century. My grandfather at 18 married my grandmother at age16 in Italy. A year later a son was born to them.
My grandfather left my grandmother and their infant son with her family in Calabria and emigrated to America and got some sort of job so that he could afford the passage money for his wife and child to come and join him.
My grandmother was very beautiful. I have a picture of her – rather tall for an Italian, with inky dark hair and eyes. Striking, even in the very modest clothing of that day.
One day, the villiage priest – she was Greek Orthodox, not Roman Catholic – my grandfather was Roman Catholic – anyway, one day this village priest tknown to her from infancy told my grandmother (Stella was her name, Maria Stella) that he needed to talk to her privately and that it was important and for her ears only, etc. and that to ensure privacy the two of them should go into the fields to have this talk.
He was her priest; he was an authority figure. She was 17 or 18, a married woman with a husband and a baby son. Her husband, though, was in America.
She obeyed, went into the fields with him. He raped her. Of course, she told her parents, siblings. what had happened. The news quickly spread thruout thiis tiny Calabrian village. Everyone knew.
Now, guess who was disgraced?
This priest, for betraying the trust and violating the body of a young wife and mother, a girl he’d know from infancy, possibly even one of the babies in the village he’d baptized. ?
This priest, for violating his celibacy oath?
Guess again.
SHE was disgraced. Utterly.
SHE was shamed, shunned, castigated, punished.
It was all HER fault.
Why? Because she was so beautiful, she bewitched a priest and made him forget his vows.
She tempted a priest, and he couldn’t withstand her lure. It was her fault.
No, I’m not kidding..
Postscript: this news of course reached my grandfather in America. When he had the passage money he sent for his wife and son and they came to America. My grandfather greeted her by taking her wedding ring away from her.
She died at the age of 42. She bore him 12 children. My mother was one of them My grandmother during her married life was continually pregnant. After presenting my grandfather with their 3rd or 4th child, he let her have her wedding ring back.
Oh, he believed that she was raped. He knew she wasn’t lying. Because he never set foot in a church again. Hated ALL priests until the day he died. All the children were baptized, confrimed, etc but he never attended church again. He made his wife go, and he made his children go. But HE would NEVER go.
Still – it was still her fault. If she hadn’t…whatever…get the idea?
Ok, end of true story. Perhaps this story of my grandmother’s married life might disabuse you of the idea that I have no empathy for rape victims. Whatever.
Oh, and just for the record, I do NOT think all priests are evil or any stupid thing like that. No way. This is a story about the rape and unjust punishment of my grandmother. I never knew her. She died way before I was born. I’m sure its way beyond the beyond unbelievable today but it did happen.
That’s terrible, Aquamarine, thanks for sharing your grandmother’s story.
WOW
Aquamarine, that is a moving, heart-rending story. I believe that this type of thing has happened many times over to many people throughout history, and still goes on in various forms, only the people and situations are different. Thank you for sharing your story, and I am glad you have empathy for people, which is why… I’m surprised at some of the things you have posted. But this is an ongoing discussion in society, and we all, as a civilization, and individually, are still developing our attitudes and actions regarding this issue.
Thanks, Spike, secret and Tasha, for reading this! And, Tasha, thanks for your kind response. I too believe that this type of victim shaming still occurs even today. I also understand how you’d think I have little empathy due to some of the things I write. You’re not the first person who has told me that. I wonder about it myself sometimes. I do have the ability to separate “myself” sometimes. Hard to explain. You’re very kind, Tasha. Peace.
Aqua I’m speechless. The absolutely undeserved shame your grandmother had to live with is heartbreaking. Truly. She must have been a very strong woman and utterly devoted to her family to withstand the type of village onslaught you describe. I can feel from you the admiration and love you have for a grandmother you never knew. You write of her and make her alive. You’re a credit to her and she a credit to you.
Tasha, thank you for so gently addressing Aqua’s posts. And to Aqua, that is quite a horrific thing your grandmother went through… Your account of it was compelling and I could sense the love and respect you have for her.
To all here, I encourage you to read this because it’s not widely known:
http://www.pandys.org/articles/revictimization.html
The point I raise is this: When we read about adult women coming forward — realize the amount of courage it takes to speak out about sexual assault, and PLEASE realize that it is often NOT THE FIRST TIME this happened to her… or him.
If it happened in childhood — and repeatedly occurs in adulthood…trust me, it’s more than most can handle. It’s a curse–like living with a target on one’s back.
We want to know why… Why did it happen to me, my sister, mother or daughter? Statistics are that one out of three women is raped in their lifetimes). It’s someone we know.
To address it, we/they sought spiritual help….. Now, think of the magnitude of betrayal; the specious mind-f**k and “victim blaming” leveled by the cult towards these women… Their trauma exploited for financial gain…now, add spiritual and financial rape to the equation…
Get the picture?
We all handle trauma in different ways. Sometimes we don’t understand how someone can lash out and “protect the perpetrator.” Yet, this happens all too often.
The rape victim does not want the rapist to “get in trouble,” which is among the top ten reasons they do not report to authorities.
I know, it makes no logical sense but it’s a fact.
I hope this helps.
Any young girl of child bearing age can become pregnant the FIRST time. It makes me think or wonder has this happened to one of the young girls who were raped/sexually assaulted? To even think a child would be subjected to an abortion at 9.10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15 or so year old is a tragic unimaginable scar for her to live with for the rest of her life. No one would pay the price for raping her, impregnating her, “forcing” her to under go an abortion…..& the perpetrator would get away with THAT! The male walks away after getting his sexual pleasure leaving a child quivering & quaking, in shock, afraid to speak out, AND if she does, what happens to the perpetrator….NOTHING but a slap on the wrist & her parents can’t press charges because…well. we know the answer to that. SICK sick sick.
one of the oddest things about being Out is the concept of a new ability to have secrets.
If Danny has had any amount of auditing at all, his secrets are known.
On staff, whether you’re doing actual bridge steps or not, you’re going to be on the cans and your secrets come out. Just need to have one or two “withholds pulled” and “missed withholds pulled” and you’re ever after fully aware that everything you do and think is possible to come up in a session, and you can’t leave that session until it’s all out. (yeah, you can try to wiggle out, but the more you’re IN the more you know you’re just doomed and might as well give it up)
Also….
The auditing I purchased cost between $4,000-$8250.00 per 12.5 hours. Minimally this is about five to ten bucks a MINUTE.
Paying for OT auditing set ups and things, at 8 grand an intensive, If you’re paying close to 700 bucks an hour you start confessing rather quickly. Might as well get this over with, as it won’t go away and the meter is running.
……
so recently I was just musing on all of this and was marveling at the idea that I never ever ever have to give up another secret if I don’t want to. I don’t have to talk about sex, bodies, habits, errors, moments of weakness, anything at all……. if I don’t want to.
It’s amazing.
I’ve been sitting UTR for a bit now, and it’s still a new thing to me. My own policing of deed and thought is still happening.
This is a huge deal, the whole way of life of a scio, having everything laid bare to all and sundry for most of one’s life…. is a huge difference between a scientologist and a non-scientologist.
I’d like to see a post on this. It’d be interesting to get everyone’s take on it.
In an enlightened society, people have the innate right to think their own thoughts. NO ONE has the right to exploit them in any way. A thought is NOT a crime. Any intelligent person realizes that life is a constant learning curve of self and the world around them. To turn that learning curve over to the control of someone or something else, immediately negates our right to be free in thought and deed. No one is born perfect, no one becomes perfect. That is the nature of being human. To be fed the belief system that you can become perfect through someone or something else gives a lie to human history. Every person on the face of this earth is an individual, and if left to pursue their individuality through their own efforts, not at the behest of someone elses dictates, who knows how perfect they could become or what they could achieve. Scientology tries to make clones of words on paper written by a failed sci-fi writer. How insane is that?
this is a wonderful bit that has helped me. Thank you.
You’re welcome…………..and keep your secrets if it helps you. The ‘world’ doesn’t need, or indeed have the right to know our every thought/deed as long as we are not hurting anyone. And that’s real evil in scientology. It removes the individual from the person and that IS a crime.
And the key to freeing our mind of Hubbard’s educational imprinting is allow ourselves to be critical of Hubbard.
The great crime in Scientology is scrutinizing Hubbard and his words.
Looking, investigating, thinking, questioning, doubting, needing proof, making a judgement are NOT THOUGHT CRIMES!
These words are our own ability to evolve according to our understanding.
In Scientology we were o my allowed to evolve through Hubbard’s understanding.
Maybe run this process secretfornow:
Have a critical thought about L Ron Hubbard……..
Thank you
Have another critical thought about L Ron Hubbard
Thank you.
Keep repeating this command until VVGIs.
Our own sovereign thinking process is what Hubbard booby trapped.
This must be rehabilitated. Great joy comes from this.
I agree that everyone deserves to receive justice in a court of law as opposed to the court of public opinion. But another really big issue, to me at least, is that this guy has a ton of support from this organization who will do everything in their power to protect their beloved celebrity members, including covering up the crime for him and trying to blame/intimidate/manipulate/attack the actual victims of this crime.
I’ve spoken with one of this guy’s victims, so this situation has become even more personal to me. I do believe in allowing someone to defend themselves against accusations of crimes (everyone deserves to be able to defend themselves in a court of law), but the way all of this stuff was systemically covered up by a group masquerading as a “church” is just unconscionable to me.
And I’m afraid there are likely even more victims than the three who have filed reports. That might come across as a bit of speculation I’m sure, but I have my reasons for assuming that. If these stories are true (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of these allegations), then the victims deserve to receive justice, the perpetrator should be in prison, and the group responsible for covering up the crime should be held accountable to the fullest possible extent of the law.
Questioning victims of sexual assault (which seems to be pretty common these days when a celebrity is accused of rape) is one of the main reasons women don’t report. That kind of mentality that exists within our current “celebrity culture” HAS to change. Just my two cents.
Your two cents is worth a billion…)the law has to take a really hard look at this organization…it’s dangerous & has been for a long time
Hello Everyone.
If you remember from Leah’s and Mike’s wonderful program. They interviewed 2 young women who were raped while in Scientology at very early ages. One by her own father. As dear old dad was going up the ladder in Scientology, he had to apologize to her before he could advance, and she was forced to accept the apology. Reporting a rape in the cult was an admission that the VICTIM was doing something wrong, and needed to find out what it was.
The other young lady’s rapist is still a wonderful standing member of Scientology, and one wonders how many other women he had raped and it has not been reported, as the women would not get any help from the cult.
So, it would seem to me that any negative PR about a rape from a member of Scientology would be covered over like a blanket.
Lance Caldwell.
Im curious,is there any ranting and raving board you all use or can I complain here? Im so sick of seeing those stupid Scientology commercials,the good points are I can skip them,and Marty Rathbun stutters so bad im actually greatful I hit skip before he makes any actual words come out,it makes them seem so cold and uncaring oh right they are!!
With true selfless loving service, the smiles on other’s faces, the lifting of sorrow, is the reward.
There is no PR motivation to loving service to removing suffering.
But if you study L Ron Hubbard, the man who could only muster up anger when his son committed suicide — anger because it hurt Ron’s PR, service has only one intended goal: PR.
This is the philosophy of a Malignant Narcissist………… straight up and vertical!
I feel sorry for those still caught in the mind numbing madness.
Ron was right: he is source.
Scientology — it’s study and application, is insidious in its ability to change a decent person into an indecent one.
Scientology has the capacity to numb our own spiritual intuitive conscience. Once the conscience has been redefined by Hubbard, unreasonable delusions become objective truth.
Say bye bye to freedom of thought. And say hello to being a sleep walker — a spiritual being who considers make believe the same as objective truth:
A mother who will choose clearing the planet over their own children.
Yes indeed Brian, Scientology is a dangerous weapon, it actually shoots backwards!
Oh yeah! Remember the Fac One machines with operators wearing leather aprons and horn rimmed glasses? Those machines shot the operator as well… perhaps Hubbard is following an earlier lead from his own story(petard) line of the Scientology Opera.
It was always curious to me I Yawn that the visual nature of Ron’s Sci Fi space opera imagery just happened to be images and items from his generation: fedora hats, DC-8 planes etc.
What would be the odds, out of 75 million years, that these items would be in Ron’s recollections.
Just more evidence of Ron’s run away imagination becoming justified by blips on the meter, leading him to his decrepit end of life mental state.
If Danny Masterson is guilty of rape, he is pretty low on the tone scale. Nothing a few auditing sessions can’t clean up, and then all is good with the universe.
Oh wait, there are victims too.
First there should no time limitation on any sexual related crime. The physical wounds are seen, emotional wounds are not and can last a life time and you could have flash backs that are all too real. For any organization that hides these sick and demented persons shame on you. $cn everyday there are numerous new complaints it is becoming a bigger issue with the help of social media. There are so many that write on this blog and it gives me hope for humanity. I believe that if we continue with our voices we will do good. Mike and Leah you two have opened the door that has been closed for too many years. Our time has come, Davey yours is crumbling and you are the one of last ” dictators” who will be caught and the legal system will take from there.
Aquamarine, I read the statements from the women who made accusations against Danny Masterson. Then I read his statements. I also read what other, involved people said. Then I formed my opinion. I’m not one to rush to indict someone, I weigh all the evidence. In this case, I believe it happened as the women said. Every day people hear of things that happen, look at both sides, and form an opinion. This is what happens. No one is doing anything to Mr. Masterson though, if charges are brought, it will be decided in a court of law. Otherwise, nothing will happen, except people will have their own opinions of him. That’s life.
This was a response to Aquamarine’s comment, below.
Yes, agreed on all. Wynski pointed out that in my speech I was conflating the court of public opinion, to which we are each a member,to a court of law. In my own mind I had the distinction but in my speech this distinction was not at all clear, making it sound as if anyone not on a jury has not right to opine on the innocence or guilt of someone based on what is in the public domain. In that wise, I misspoke.
Its kind of scary to me that so many here are pronouncing guilt before the evidence. This is what the Church of Scientology does, and we profess to loathe them for this. But at the same time, its fine for us to do it? We here reserve the right to pronounce someone guilty of a crime because he or she has been accused of a crime while castigating and vilifying a cult which does precisely the same thing…seriously?
This comment above was intended as a response to a number of others way below.
I hope the Karma Train will come crashing down and bite him in the ass. Of course the cult will protect him and blame the victims, what else is new with this shit cult. They need to shut down soon. I am glad that 3 women came forward let them know they have many support and no one is going to blame them. Justice needs to be served
Kati. I think cause he has a new movie out …Mr. Big shit
I’ve heard that from time to time Lance. The sticking point has been that no one has figured out how to reform something that at its heart was designed to be a scam…
One of the real problems would be an E-Meter, who would be asking questions, who would be taking notes and making a list of “one’s crimes” etc. To believe that we are all pieces of space folks who can’t be gotten rid of with a nice bath and some flea powder, does not seem to me that is something I would not personally want to buy into.
I can see where Scientology would have a lot on a person from what I saw from the questions that were going to be asked for 6 year olds. “Have you touched yourself where you should not have,” “Have you touched other people where you should not have.” “Have you ever harmed yourself.” Idiot lawyer gives an example of cutting hair. LOL.
Here is something to think about. With a small child being asked questions of a very personal scope, the interviewer was concerned that it could turn sexual. Kind of a dismissal of the lawyer, who says that other religions have adults talk to children alone.
This cult is rotten from head to toe, and needs to be done away with totally, and hopefully never rise again.
Lance Caldwell.
I say this about the accused all the time, and it bears repeating: if they’re guilty, I pray its proven and they suffer the full consequences of the law regardless of public opinion. If not, I pray they walk free and suffer no ill over this. I’ve never met Mr. Masterson, or the women who accused him. I don’t know who’s lying, or who’s telling the truth. I find it interesting though, that Masterson hired Tom Mesereau…who I truly respect for his passionate defense of Michael Jackson both legal and otherwise. I just hope Mesereau’s acceptance of Masterson as a client doesn’t come back to bite him.
I agree with Aquamarine regarding “innocent until proven guilty.”
However, I do find it interesting that my first reaction to hearing this story is that Danny is guilty. Just instantly make that mental assumption.
If he is guilty, there are dozens of people at CC who know he’s guilty. You can’t fool that Mark VIII super meter that is 5,000 times more accurate than any previous model.
If he got on the cans and they found him to be guilty, he need not admit guilt to any authorities or to the victims or to God. All he needs to do is give a bunch of money to the IAS and go do some frivolous PR caper and he’s exonerated. They will cover it up for him.
If he’s guilty and it came up in session and the Co$ exonerates him then he’s forever in their grip. We all know now that NO confessional information is sacrosanct and that it can and will be used against anyone who becomes disobedient in any way. Danny likely knows that too.
All this is just SOP for the most ethical group on the planet.
Les, you put your finger on a VERY important issue. Scientology DOES have the evidence — they have evidence proving his innocence or his guilt. There are records of EVERYTHING that had happened. They could prove his innocence very easily. I hope when all the details come out they are forced to answer for their actions.
That raises an interesting point of how legally binding is the information gained from an auditing action or confessional. Even the police know some people will admit to crimes they haven’t committed. It seems like any good lawyer worth his salt could argue that with past lives, space cootie tech and a whole heap of other hocus pocus that goes on in the Cof$ it’s all inadmissible as there’s too many precedents of Scientologists lying as a matter of their religious discourse between themselves. Geezers, prove to me there’s a God has hit the courtrooms more than once in history. What if a lawyer said his client was under undue stress from Scientology and made it all up to please them or was pressured to make something up just to end the torture? Or even worse, prove to me that what is written as gibberish on the worksheet that 1, can be interpreted as actual language, and 2, it actually happened in that session and/or wasn’t fabricated or misunderstood by the auditor/priest. Is that auditor/priest qualified to be honest in such a system? Don’t they have a CS system and hierarchy that punishes them if they don’t do what the Cof$ or this Hubbard fellow instructs his executives to do for the security of their organisation?
Scientology gains it’s power using blackmail techniques of what a PC says in session and their disgusting use of it in prior times against others and the ever present threats of exposure in the future. Scientologists tend to feel a bit ill when they put their attention of what is actually contained in their PC/Ethic’s folders. But, I wonder if it ever reached a court room, how would it pan out as evidence?
The power of a withhold is indeed a force to be reckoned with and Scientology uses it with wild abandon, but is it actually legally binding? Even the police must go through their patter, “anything you say can and will be used against you etc.”
Just wondering…
Not to even mention the possibility of some 3rd party slipping in a doctored worksheet or two into a folder to frame someone. I’ve never read over & signed my worksheets, prove I said that? Notwithstanding a videoed session but if push came to shove in the world of public exposure and ridicule stemming from court proceeding I think the Cof$ would “loose” their session recordings pretty quickly.
I thought I heard someone during one of the interviews SAY ‘you’d admit to anything” just to get out or past that particular repetitive repetitive repetitive question/auditing session(s) .
OMG, that’s right, Co$ HAS the evidence! OMFG!
This is a different subject but did anyone watch Tom Cruise on Conan last night? I never watch that dude but he had a motive to go on tv. Just wondered what. I also never heard of Masterson. And that’s a good thing.
The only role I’ve seen him in, apart from brief clips of “That ’70s Show”, is John Woo’s 1997 action film “Face/Off”. Interestingly, Masterson played a wannabe rapist beaten up by John Travolta’s character.
I noticed that there was a mention of perhaps a movement for a “Reformed Church of Scientology.” If that is true, what changes would be made, and who would run it.
Lance Caldwell
The only form of “reformation” that will work is a total collapse of Scientology. You can’t fix something with a rotten core.
Yes Joshua.
I totally agree that the only solution to Scientology and its teachings is a total and forever collapse of this money making, family wrecking cult.
No reforms, no tweaks, put Scientology in a cage in the mountain with “Xenu” and LRH never to be seen or heard of again.
Lance Caldwell.
Since 1983, there have been several Scientology reform groups that have emerged including the Freezone, Independent Scientology, the First Independent Church Of Scientology, among others. These groups feel that the current church cannot be reformed and thus the thing to do is to start over from scratch. As far as changes go, there was a Scientology reform movement spearheaded by Marty Rathbun some years back but since it appears that he has been lured back into the enemy’s camp, it appears that nothing will come of this.
They could split off a thousand different branches, or a million – it doesn’t matter. Hubbard was a greedy and corrupt man who only cared about himself; “clearing the planet” was just a story he made up so others would pay to be in his cult.
Are you from Ventura, CA by chance?
Hello Badafuco.
You asked if I was from California. No, I am from Portland, Oregon.
Lance Caldwell
The minute you call yourself “cool” – you’re not cool.
How about if you’re luke warm?
OSD
As in………….tepid?
I wonder how John T would react if some scumbag attempted to / succeeded to assault or rape his loving wife or daughter. .hmmm.
Well, Shirley, here’s how I see it. If the scumbag in question is a Scientologist,
he’ll probably try to keep the matter internal. You know, KRs, comm-evs, the whole ethics nine yards. If the scumbag were a wog, open season.
A & E showed continual reruns of Leah Remini Scientology: Aftermath show last night. It was one after another for hours and was still going on at 3:00 am. So that tells me there is tremendous interest in and demand for this in the public sector. So Mike and Leah and all people who have come out and spoken on the show, you are creating a huge impact and doing a lot of good to get the word out about DM’s and the church’s crimes. Take a win and pat yourselves on the back for that. And keep on doing the series!!!
Danny Masterson’s “career” if you can call his part in “That 70’s Show” a career, will dry up now that Hollywood knows that he is a Scn and that he is or is allegedly a rapist. No one will touch him with a ten foot pole now.
Tell that to Tom Cruise and John Travolta, who still have huge careers either because or in spite of Scientology. I’d agree with you about rape, though – thank God some people in Hollywood still have a little common sense.
I don’t know. My family and I stopped going to Tom’s movies and many people I know find him creepy and unrelatabke because his persona is so … managed. It’s like there is no personality. I can’t get past the consigning to Scientology abuses and that keeps me distant. JT I don’t understand because I think he is a sweet person who is stuck. His wife is militant though. I think Scientology has paid off a lot of dirt on J and he feels no way out. Plus Kelly would declare him and he’d lose his kids. Of cours, Sci makes it easy for him because I think he has his own set of rules. I don’t think he’s as cold as cruise.
Why do you think Kelly Preston is militant? Has she been a fierce defender of Scientology in public? I’m really surprised both of them are still in it, honestly…especially after the death of their son to seizures. I’m an epileptic myself, and Keppra controls my brain problems. Given Scientology’s stances against modern medicine, I wonder if Jett was taking anything for his condition.
My family and I too have stopped supporting any movie that J.Travolta, Tom Cruise. And Kristin Ali are affiliated with. I am sure they have more money than enough to live on for the rest of their lives but since this cult and it’s practices have been revealed I know allot of people feel that way. The numbers will eventually hurt these actors and it should. Like Paul H. Said in his interview on Scientology, The Aftermath it is time for these celebrities to stop being unaware of the abuses linked to the church and should be held accountable. I now consider these celebritiesto be as bad as any pedophile or rapist themselves by allowing these practices to go on. This cult sounds like a perfect place for pedophiles and rapists to survive. These celebrities are pathetic because they have way more chances to look into these accusations than any of the rest of the parishioners in the cult. They are out in the real world and can easily see what is going on. Most of the parishioners of this cult are not allowed on the Internet or to look at any outside proof of the abuses. The whole dea behind this cult is tombksme the victims, it is just sick, sick, sick. ,David M. And L. r. Hubbard only care about lining their pockets with money. It is time for D.M. And his celebrities to take the perp walk. Their time is running out.
The last T.C. movie I went to was Top Gun. For John T. it was Grease.
The last of Tom’s movies I saw was “Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation”. For Travolta, it was “The Punisher” in 2004.
I’m afraid not. He has a show on TV with Ashton Kutcher, called The Ranch.
Last night A & E played re runs of Season 2 shows of the Leah Remini Scientology: Aftermath series. One after the other. And they were still going at 3:00 in the am too. That is a LOT of coverage of DM and the church’s crimes. And my guess is that A & E wouldn’t be showing hours and hours of reruns of the Scn series if there weren’t a huge public interest in it also. It goes to show you what kind of interest this is producing. So Mike, you and Leah are making a huge huge impact! Well done! As the Bard would say, “the truth will out!”
Anyone notice that DJ Ahole and Michael Pena are dressed identically from the white belts on up? What is up with that? Weird…
Then there’s the obligatory richie-rich son of another high roller fam, the Dohrings.
what BS
Hey Mike what do say ,all of us locals in Cw, have our own protest. We’ll go kneel in Front of FLAG !!!
But, but…we’re missing the essential question here: Exactly how much money will Danny “Nooo, not the lamp” Masterson have to raise for the cult’s faux charity coffers before he’s off the hook with the cherch?
He’s got himself into a serious mess, so my bet there is that he’s going to be paying the cult “hush money” until he’s broke and every one of his credit lines is completely tapped out, because (doh) that’s how the cult rolls when it comes to defrauding all of its marks…he’s just given them some extra leverage to hold over his little pointy Z-List head.
That’s there Best why Not Danny,Cosby & OJ golf tournament smh & Right this church w Hide & Protect ppl who’s deeds are not so right at a cost allegedly don’t sue me I’m broke anyway but one would think with there Bad PR that they would not go easy on ppl in that ? it is and at least look like there doing good things but is what it is & ppl if ? is abusing you don’t be ashamed to speak UP rape is so common yet cont’s we won’t blame U for what ? else dose you might & prob can save someone else & U might not feel worthy or Loved but were here for you… Love
Ok, with a deep breath:
As a person and as an actor, I don’t like Danny Masterson. I think he’s a boor and a barbarian and a bad actor AND he actively supports and defends a vicious, ruthless, greedy cult .
That said, I’m a big believer in the stable datum of our criminal justice system, i.e., “innocent until proven guilty”. That 3 women have come forward and claimed he raped them does not mean he’s guilty of it nor does this mean that he’s innocent. Ditto for these claims being investigated. They should be investigated.
But I do think that we should not allow our own opinions and prejudices to intrude in evaluating a criminal case. Rape, like theft, fraud, murder, etc., is a crime and needs to be proven. If we make assumptions about the innocence or guilt of anyone we threaten our own rights to be considered innocence until proven guilty. The presumption of innocence is a precious right.
From my own point of view – and again, I can’t stand this guy – if he’s guilty I fervently hope that all the evidence necessary to nail him exists and that he’s nailed and jailed and/or publicly pilloried and has to pay plenty to these women. If he’s guilty, the cult will suffer also, from the bad publicity, bigly. A good thing.
On the other hand, if he’s not guilty of rape to any of them, then I would not want him to be punished for any crime he didn’t commit..
I’ll add that its sickening to know how the cult will back him to the hilt, not because they care about justice being served but because it reflects poorly on THEM. Really, really sickening.
I’ll bet he never goes to prison. Why? The cult will protect him.
If I recall correctly, when Tony Ortega did the story, he included statements made by Danny Masterson, which confirmed that the reported activities occurred. What differed was his interpretation of the events and opinion that it constituted rape. I also am not one to pre-judge, but I read what Mr. Masterson had to say and did not like it. Therefore, formed my opinion.
Tasha, I get it now, really. See my response to your comment above, near the top.
Aqua:
I agree with your point about “innocent until proven guilty”.
Having said that, we all know that members of $cientology will lie their asses off to protect the cult.
I find it quite hard to believe that he isn’t guilty. Because again, it’s very rare for women to fabricate rape stories. That’s been proven by several statistics and studies over the years.
KIC, I hear you. But I think its important that we don’t automatically presume a person to be guilty, or innocent, for that matter, merely because we disagree with his or her affiliations. Hear me out, please. No matter “how hard it is to believe” , when it comes to someone’s innocence or guilt, to throw out the necessity for hard, legal evidence before evaluating same is unjust and threatens ALL of us. People can accuse anyone of anything. CO$ does that. It makes accusations of HORRIBLE wrong doing against those it hates and wants to destroy! Do we really want to descend to that level? We can’t fight fascism with fascism. We have to go higher. We can only fight the lies of the cherch with truth!
If that man rakped those women and it goes to trial and the plaintiffs have EVIDENCE that he did so, he’ll be convicted . And if he raped them and there’s NO evidence or insufficient evidence, then he’ll go free. That doesn’t mean he’s innocent; it means he’s not guilty! Legally, that means there was not enough evidence to convict him; it means that the defense created REASONABLE DOUBT. That doesn’t equate to “innocent”, you see. Someone can commit a crime and if there’s reasonable doubt, he walks. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
That can allow a guilty person to go free sometimes but if we had to live under the presumption of guilt it would be awful for everyone.
The prosecution of crimes is not a simple equation. If there is evidence you will be prosecuted and if there isn’t you won’t. Someone can very well be guilty and never be prosecuted, let alone convicted.
In fact, prosecutors do not pursue MANY cases even if they have enough evidence to show the person committed the crime. The evidence may be old and beyond the statute of limitations, the victim may be an unsympathetic witness, the law on that particular crime may have certain elements that would allow acquittal on a “technicality” even though the crimes was committed, the evidence may have been tainted through loss of chain of custody, the victim might be someone that can mount a massive legal defense, tying up the prosecutors and meaning 5 other crimes go unprosecuted. THere are a LOT of reasons.
And then you get to the reasons a trial can go awry and not results in a guilty verdict — or worse, result in a guilty verdict that is not true and later evidence exonerates the person.
I know this is basically what you are saying, and I am agreeing with you. And I also agree with you that people should not be adjudged guilty before it is proven. Hopefully we will see justice done in this matter.
Thanks for your response to me, Mike and the data you furnished, much of which was news to me. I’m not a legal person. I just read a lot of detective fiction 🙂
That said, I suppose I have a “button” on injustice.and a personal fear of myself (or us as a group) turning into what I,find despicable in Co$, the piling on, the – well, you know. We here – we’re better than that. We are not THOSE PEOPLE who operate that way – right? Ok, Its possible I over-reacted. Thanks for your understanding.
CASE IN POINT aqua….O.J. Simpson, not guilty???
Exactly right! “Not guilty”, but NOT innocent!
” That 3 women have come forward and claimed he raped them does not mean he’s guilty of it nor does this mean that he’s innocent. Ditto for these claims being investigated. They should be investigated.”
That’s an excellent point to keep in mind! The presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt is a central pillar of our justice system here in the U.S.. Without it, you’d have a very hard time arguing that any system that’s set up to adjudicate criminal charges could be fair and just to begin with.
However, IIRC, Masterson has already paid out a large sum to one of his accusers through some sort of cult-negotiated deal (reported previously in the UB). So, while that’s not an admission of guilt either, it certainly does suggest strongly that both Danny boy and his cult handlers are very well aware of the potential criminal/civil liability that he faces and have taken damage control steps to mitigate that risk.
Interesting. So one of the women got a pay out? I’d better read up on this. Though, legally, it doesn’t mean he’s guilty. He could have paid her just to avoid publicity. Sounds like that didn’t work too well.
Thanks, a nice reminder of our own humanity.
Yes, admirable post Aqua. I agree that the presumption of innocence must be protected until PROVEN otherwise. The media as an example has destroyed many lives/reputations and is more or less used as a tool by the influential to serve an agenda, often hidden or incredibly biased or political. The internet serves as a similar tool as well, but is accessible by the less influential or often by some idiot out to do harm for the want of something better to do. Some of the vicious crap on some forums, utube etc is a disgrace to the well being of human intelligence and values.
I don’t know this guy Masterson, nor do I want to but since you do, I appreciate the sincerity of your convictions.
As it involves Scientology and his endorsement of it … well, the only term that comes to mind is vomit!
In a somewhat similar type of scenario I sure have become biased that anyone supporting Scientology is guilty of supporting criminals and openly endorsing the violating of human rights by abusive acts, (Paul Haggis brilliantly put forth that responsibility as exampled by the selective blindness of celebrities who support Scientology) without any further consideration of their presumption of innocence. Funny how the world spins hey?
Yawn, thanks.
I, too, try to spot bias in myself and nip it in the bud. I don’t myself like being painted with a broad brush by others, and so, superstitiously or whatever, I try not to do it to anyone.
. For example, there are plenty of people out there who would automatically think I’m a wacko for having BEEN a Scientologist.
They wouldn’t have to know anything else about me – that’s all the info they’d need..
You Were A Scientologist = You WERE A Wacko = You ARE A Wacko.
Unjust! Not fair.
If you think I’m a wacko, at least, base your evaluation on a little more data than that!
You may be right 🙂
Pretty exclusive type of club we are (or were) members of hey?
The world’s not short of wackos, Scientology could be considered a very minor influence in the general scheme of kooks. It’s just that they are so full of shit and literally eat their own babies! And once upon a time we bought a ticket…
Don’t let once being in Scioland cloud your sensitivities. You’re smarter than you think.
100% agree with you. I feel exactly the same way. It’s important for people who are against the cult that he belongs not to stoop to the same tactics that Scn uses.
I agree. I’d like to know (as I am sure everyone would) where the investigation stands. Seems like it’s been going on a long time. I hope it’s not stalled or closed. If so, we should know what they found.
Article said “sexual assault” not rape. Putting your arm around a girl and asking for a date is sexual assault in this newest generation.
I realize that teenagers or younger may cry “sexual assault” over the littlest thing.
However, one (or more) of the women reported her rape a long time ago. They’re not kids. They’re grown-ups.
I am sorry I let that comment from Patricia through. It is insensitive and uninformed. DJ Donkey Punch didn’t just put his arms around a girl. This is not a hypothetical scenario of “this sort of thing happens.” It is specific, detailed and absolutely horrifying.
Patricia, the allegations against Masterson are much more serious and involved than ‘putting his arm around her to ask for a date’ – please read the actual article to become more informed about this situation.
Point 2: Sexual assault can include rape. It is a broader term that encompasses a wide array of acts.
Point 3: I, as a female, would not appreciate anyone just coming up to me and putting their arm around me and asking for a date, it is unwanted touching, it is invading my personal space. Yes, it can be called assault – did I invite you to put your arm on me? If not, then don’t do it, show some respect. If I know you well enough for you to ask me out, we will have a civilized conversation about it, but don’t come into my physical space without my permission and lay your hands on my body, you don’t have a right to do that. I feel verbally assaulted several times every day just walking on the street to school or work and being ‘catcalled’ from a passing vehicle or random man on the street or construction worker, it’s unpleasant and annoying. If every time someone felt like it, they went even further and came up and put their arm around me and asked for a date, I would certainly get angry and irritated and consider it molestation, so yes, it is assault. Keep your hands to yourself.
Point 4: I assume from your avatar and name that you are a female; we need to speak up for each other and support each other. Keep this in mind: what’s right and proper for one gender is the same for the other – do you go around chasing down men to lay your arm around them and ask them out? That’s not polite behavior. So we women should not have it done to us either. C’mon now, let’s put some thought into this, alright? Thank you.
SMH.
Many, many sexual crimes go unreported because of attitudes like this.
Exactly George….Fear of reprisals, shame, guilt as if THEY caused themselves to be attacked. In today’s more gentler terminology…..”sexual assault” is often used in place of the word rape……so using that terminology doesn’t make the rape sound as horrific even though it is. You might hear in the news reports “she was sexually assaulted by so & so”….instead of “she was raped by so & so”………
Statistically it’s VERY rare for a woman to lie about being raped. That there are multiple women with similar stories almost definitely means that it’s true.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=false+rape+rare&btnG=
Not always; if the stories are too similar it could be evidence of conspiracy. The people most often targeted with false sexual allegations are the rich and famous, because they have a lot to lose financially.
That may be true, but none of the victims are suing civilly nor have they asked for money in any way. So, how much money he has or doesnt have is not relevant here.
That’s a good sign, that the women are not asking for money. They’re pursing the criminal route. This should be interesting.
No woman I know would fake a rape or assault. What they put you through under oath over and over again feels like you are reliving those times. It haunts not only your days, but nights. Then you have to deal with people making snide comments about how the victim was asking for it. So instead of it being private and hopefully partially healed (because it never goes away) the victim becomes victimized and has to deal with it again and in public.
It also happens to men. And the same exposure and snide remarks can wreak just as much damage.
@ Peter Norton – True…and its often compounded by the popular assumption that grown men can’t be raped. Women may not be able to overpower most men, but we can still be sidelined through drugs and such.
Absolutely right Barbara. So many assaults go unreported because of the social stigma, the trauma, fear of further violence, how people judge you, and then having to relive it, talk about it again, when all you want is for it to go away and never have happened in the first place.
Then, if you have reported and nothing is done because there is ‘not enough proof’ and the attacker lies, it feels as though you’ve been victimized once again, so many are not reported. The statistics prove up what I’m saying, and as a female, I have experienced this myself and have had lived through this with many female friends as well. Sexual assault/rape is not something women or girls commonly falsify, as it’s extremely traumatic in so many ways, physically, emotionally, societally.
Victims of other crimes are not doubted, ostracised, ridiculed: if you report someone stole your backpack, or your car, you are believed, if you report someone assaulted you on the street, or broke into your home, you are seen as a victim… but if someone has assaulted you sexually, or has broken into not your home, but your body, society doubts the victim, they are treated with suspicion, or blame, derogatory comments may be made about them and what kind of person they are, people feel it’s ok to make rape jokes, etc. It’s no wonder less than 1 in 3 sexual assaults are reported. So when women come forward who have everything to lose, in terms of career, personal reputation, etc., and report this, we need to stop immediately casting aspersions on them, instead of the accused. Especially when the person accused has basically verified the events.
This is anecdotal but a woman friend of mine, back in the day, had drunken sex with a man who cared nothing for her and bragged about it to others and disparaged her as being “easy”. When she learned about his telling all and sundry about what had occurred between them she felt so humiliated she spread it around that he had raped her. Except I knew that it hadn’t been rape because I was her close friend and when me about it she was crying and very embarrassed and saying she wished she hadn’t been with this man. Later in subsequent re-tellings, when it got back to her that he had blabbed about it all over the place, what happened between them, morphed into “rape”. What is was, in my opinion, was rage, her rage, and humiliation. He humiliated her and she was angry and mortified but he didn’t rape her.
OMG,typos, typos. Sorry, people. Getting new contacts soon.
Just realized this anecdote doesn’t apply because my friend never pressed charges against the man.
Yes, but this is a matter of complaints being filed to the police and they are conducting their investigation. Not going around and telling people “I was raped”.
Yes, you’re right, Mike. I corrected myself on that; please see my post just above yours here.
The presumption of innocence is what we are guaranteed in court. Not in the court of public opinion. Sexual assault is a much different crime than other crimes in the US. People who have studied the situation know better.
Overall, less than a third of rapes ever get reported. Some studies show even less for sexual assaults (5-20%). Often this is due to victim-blaming, by self or others, in a society we widely admit is a “rape culture”, and in which the burden of proof is often impossibly high compared to other crimes.
The evidence of false accusation of rape is somewhere between 2 and 10%. Which means the accusation has a 90% or more chance of being true. This would tend to increase in multiple accusations, like in other violent crimes. However, plaintiffs are often treated like criminals themselves in court.
It is estimated that only 57 of every 1000 rapes/sexual assaults are ever even prosecuted – or less than 6% – and actual convictions are scarce as well.
Many women hesitate to say anything at all because, even if the perpetrator is found guilty, they are often twice-victimized in court and their reputations suffer, particularly if the perpetrator is wealthy or powerful. It is the only violent crime in which the victim carries a greater burden of proof, and less of a presumption of innocence than others. Women are often blamed for their own behavior, whether they spoke to or knew their assailant, and even the clothes they wear. Their previous sexual history is often offered up as evidence of truthfulness. No victim of murder or other type of physical assault is treated that way.
If all things were equal, it would be nice to extend that rationale. But given the general statistics, how incredibly difficult it is to get victims to come forward and face the ordeal or a trial, and the triangulation of at least 3 corroborating accounts in this case, I’m not willing to extend the same level of presumption that jurors will have to use in court.
Even when convicted, we see many perpetrators get very light sentences, we have judges who are worried about “ruining the future” of the convicted. Many sentences are no more than a slap on the wrist if the felon is wealthy or white..
“They should be investigated” is a given in any case. Believe me, they always are. But I’m afraid the odds of an automatic presumption of innocence when it comes to sexual assault is a bit naïve. You can responsibly ask that of a jury, but not of those of us in the public who know about the history, statistics and context of sexual violence in this country. That’s just a little bit tone deaf to those who are familiar with the subject.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
Sadly, I have to agree for the moment with your points. In a culture that’s obsessed with pursuing sex anywhere, at any time, with anyone…its increasingly difficult to prove rape and protect the real victims.
It is hard to prove rape. A woman who has been raped has to go right to the police and confront them and tell them about it, when she probably just wants to blot the whole horrible thing out. Then she has to be examined right away by a physician for the “evidence” which is not necessarily evidence that the sex she had was rape.. . Bruises, broken nails indicating that she resisted, etc. she has to submit to this and relive it all over again. “Presumption of innocence” is rough all the way on a rape victim. Its not surprising that a woman who was raped would not report it.
This is why polygraphs should be admissable in court. While the machines can be fooled, its not as easy as TV shows and films depict.
My goodness… that summation is like hanging out the dirty washing of the justice system, their own statistics no less. It’s difficult to think with.
Well, OK, no argument with what you’ve stated, cecybeans, but if you were accused of a crime and you knew yourself to be innocent of that crime, how would YOU want your case to be tried? Legally, and presumed innocent, or, in the court of public opinion?
I’m not defending this man, I’m defending our system, which gives EVERYONE a fair shake, theoretically, at least.
If we make exceptions, then what’s to say that the one of the exceptions would not be YOU?
I’m not saying presumption of innocence should ever be abandoned in a trial. Everyone deserves it. But there is enough evidence that the system is flawed, and I would rather go with actual statistics on justice versus theory when it comes to my own personal reaction. I am not advocating it ever interfere with a fair trial or the conclusion of a jury.
The court of public opinion is used every single day when it comes to making judgements about others. For that reason I don’t believe in the death penalty, because it is estimated that 20% of people convicted of violent crimes like murder are innocent, and that judgement is irreversible. But the odds on that are much, much different than on sexual assault, and I feel that needs to be taken into account. Particularly when weighing percentages on how often the lives of actual victims are ruined versus the lives of allegedly innocent perpetrators.
I have found that a lot of people anxious to urge people toward public presumption of innocence often apply that attitude selectively across different socioeconomic groups – it is generally reserved for people of certain or like social privilege. When I do meet people willing to apply it evenly, I respect that. But it has not been my experience to see it equally applied to individuals from groups that have been subject to other stereotypes. And often those same people don’t even see the dichotomy or are unaware that they do operate with unseen bias. That is something else that is borne out by statistical evidence in both arrest and sentencing rates for similar crimes.
Cecybeans, if you were a man convicted of a rape you didn’t commit, lets say, how would you like a jury “taking into account” the odds about your guilt or innocence, as opposed to weighing the actual legal evidence supporting your innocence or guilt?
Believe me, I’m not arguing that there’s no skewering of the law to favor those who have plenty of money over those who do not. That’s not what I’m saying.
I’m arguing in what is the purity of the law: how would you want YOUR purported crime to be treated – in its own specific time, and place and form, or based on “the odds” of your guilt?
I’m so certain of this that I’m going to answer this question for you: If it were YOU up there accused of a crime, you would, as everyone does, wrap yourself in the flag and insist on EVERY legal maneuver and ploy to benefit yourself and to either get you pronounced Not Guilty or get yourself the lightest sentence possible.
Aquamrine, once again, I’m not making an argument about the way I, as a juror, would treat a defendant. That is not the issue, so let’s not conflate that with whether or not people in the public have a right to assume that, given the available facts, we might feel someone could be guilty, not only given the statistical probability, but the current preponderance of evidence.
So legal maneuvers and ploys are completely and totally irrelevant, as is any argument where I ostensibly need to wrap myself in a flag. This is about OPINION. I am not a juror in this case, and if I were I would follow the letter of the law.
My argument was regarding being people who chide others on sticking to presumption of innocence when overwhelming statistics and odds show that it might not be the case.
I apply the same logic to abuses in CoS. I have heard mountains of evidence from credible sources that indicate when it comes to claims of abuse, where there is smoke there is fire. So when I hear a new allegation of how DM ignored, overlooked, or lied about CoS abuses, I tend to avoid the law of exceptionalism that would force me to automatically assume presumption of innocence. There is a track record of past behavior and a pattern of accusations that makes it statistically a likelihood that the people making these accusations are telling the truth. The fact that we know many abuses have never and will never be reported because of fear of intimidation makes me believe that the ones that surface are more likely to be true. Presumption of innocence is situational (once again, except in a court of law).
HOWEVER, since of this would be admissible in an actual court PLEASE quit equating this with a real court case where presumption of innocence is mandatory. I am and have been simply stating the fact that certain types of defendants may have a statistical probability of being guilty due to the social circumstances surrounding the crime and I am free to react accordingly.
There are just as many situations in which VICTIMS are not given the presumption of innocence as accusers, rape and sexual assault being one of them, both in court and in the arena of public opinion. Unarmed people being profiled and killed at a disproportionate rate because of racial bias is another.
Nobody needs to lecture me on any of this. In fact, I am a proponent of the concept of highly trained and objective professional jurors because they are more likely to be dispassionate about applying the law than what tends to pass as a “jury of our peers”.
We are ALL here talking about DM, LRH and the CoS in a way that no longer presumes assumption of innocence, even though there are no current court cases that address these claimed abuses that are being discussed in this forum.
I feel pretty confident that, given the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, I don’t have to feel bad about assumption of guilt and can form and express a public OPINION based on that. Having to go through hoops to defend that is a little weird, particularly since that is something EVERY critic of CoS is doing on this blog and others. We are not bound to courtroom rules when discussing the probability of innocence or guilt in the general public, as most of our comments here indicate. Nobody here is admonishing people who know a lot about Cos from personal experience to not rush to judgement. I know a lot about this subject as well and would appreciate the same courtesy.
Cecybeans, thank you. Totally understood and agreed. In some of my prior posts on this thread I failed to draw a clear enough distinction between “Court of Law”, i.e. “innocent until proven guilty” and “Court of Public Opinion” which is the First Amendment! BIG difference between the two. My bad. We’re exercising our 1st Amendment rights here. I get it now.
Aquamarine, that was a great response. This isn’t about a personal like or dislike it’s about defending innocent until proven guilty. Sadly Scientology wouldn’t acknowledge it if he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. We need to be better than that though. Sexual assault is a destructive crime that leaves emotional scars invisible to the naked eye that last for years. Sadly it is very hard to prove. Let’s hope justice prevails for whoever it applies to.
Thanks,Christine.
“Sadly Scientology wouldn’t acknowledge it if he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt”.
Right, If he’s found guilty of rape Scientology will dump him fast. I’m sure if they believe he’s guilty they’ll pressure him to settle. Maybe the women won’t go for that though. Maybe they’ll insist on a trial.
“Let’s hope justice prevails for whoever it applies to”.
Yes.
Aqua, it is the Jury’s job to evaluate the case. Not ours. One is innocent before the LAW until proven guilty. The PEOPLE however are allowed to speculate. Otherwise, it is almost impossible to keep tabs on the justice machinery.
Ok, I get it, Wynski. We’re not the jury. We can speculate. Its ok to speculate. OK, I get it.
I suppose what I’m reacting to is what I’ve perceived to be an automatic presumiption of guilt, by some here, simply because of OUR dislike and disapproval of him, however justifiably, for OTHER reasons.
In other words, HAS to be guilty of rape because he’s been accused of it and he’s an incredible creep who supports and is supported by a vicious cult. Wielding the axe of guilt, verbally, Some of the comments communicate to me that decisions have already been made, the guy is a rapist, case closed…far beyond speculation.
This is what CO$ does. I don’t want to be like the cult. I don’t want US to be like the cult!
If I start “thinking” as the cult does, in a way, they win.
I understand why the response Aqua. It is not good to have a knee jerk reaction without at least some some evidence.
Thanks, Wynski 🙂
“In other words, HAS to be guilty of rape because he’s been accused of it and he’s an incredible creep who supports and is supported by a vicious cult.”
I don’t think anyone here thinks he’s guilty because he’s in a cult. I believe he’s guilty because even though 63% of rapes are not reported, these women reported their rapes despite the fact they would be attacked by Scientology. No one in their right mind would subject themselves to Fair Game if they did not have to. I’m pretty sure that everyone else is thinking something similar.
I am not a churchist and my advice is that this story of rape is false. Church viewpoint is extremely puritain. I knew a guy who had his elligibiliity denied because he practiced oral sex with his wife !
A rape ? with all sec check it would be known and Masterson would have gone through sec check and heavy ethics.
Its not on a moral code of a scientologist to rape anyone. You have a false image. Yes Miscavige is a fascist but he doesnt allow sex perversion
Misvavige doesn’t allow sex perversion…at least not for others who he controls…no, under the Miscavige regime the average Scientologist/staff member feels the hammer come down on him for things like masturbation, oral sex with their partner and just about anything other than missionary position between married or committed couples. Whether the hammer would come down on Masterson, one of their dwindling supply of precious celebs is another issue entirely…especially since accusers are ex’s. However if it becomes apparent at any future point that Masterson will go down for this, then the Church will cut him loose in a New York minute.
Actually sex perversion rape assault and molestations were no uncommon in sea org. “Children are simply adults in little bodies” you see
You cannot possibly be serious. Miscavige would do anything to cover up a rape — or any other crime — for PR reasons. This is a fact as history has shown…period.
Miscavige “doesn’t allow sex perversion”?? He sure the hell does, especially when it comes to celebrity $cientologists. We all know the cult doesn’t report crimes to the police for fear of looking bad when it gets out.
Even if Masterson confessed to rape during auditing, again…it would be covered up and buried. And the rape victim would be blamed for “pulling it in”.
Makes me so sick.
Miscavige would protect an open bisexual polygamist, who had 40 kids from 40 different women…if they gave enough money to Scientology.
This is not the only time that Scientology has violated policy.
Hi FG. So, I’m guessing you didn’t actually read the article, and what occurred, and D. Masterson’s account of what happened. It’s not a good idea to make a judgement without first researching the matter. Go look it up and come back with an informed opinion afterwards, mmkay? Thanks.
Also, do you think that Miscavige runs every minute of every Scientologist’s life and controls whatever they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms? If so, that’s very naive and unrealistic.
So, you assert that it’s not the moral code of a Scientologist to rape anyone? Please to watch Leah Remini’s show, Aftermath, Season 2 episode 1. It can and does happen.
False FG. The emeter is useless. I found that out when I was a teen. It would read eactly what I wanted it to.
“It’s not on the moral code of a Scientologist to rape anyone”. Are you freaking kidding me? It’s should be on the a moral code of any human to not rape anyone but quess what, some humans are evil no matter if they are a member of a cult, a religion or nothing nothing at all. Your comment alone sounds like you are indeed a “churchist” whatever the heck that means aka scientologist.
FG , it might not come up on Danny Masterson’s Sec Check that he donkey punched someone during a rape. Why? Because the only things that read are thing that the person himself considers bad, or an overt in Scn terms. If he sees nothing wrong with it, then it won’t read on a meter. In that case, a better Sec Check question to ask Danny would be: “Have you ever failed to donkey punch a women while raping her?”
Errr, you are really misinformed FG. The only people who were “handled” were the victims. This is a CELEBRITY we are talking about. Clearly you have not had to deal with matters relating to celebrities and have a Pollyanna view of things. Wake up FB. Raise your confront of evil!
Thank you, Mike, for posting that reply.
It just stuns me that people who were in the cult don’t get it and/or are in denial.
Agreed again, KatherineInCali. A lot of CoS members don’t get it, and are in denial. However, thanks to Leah Remini and Mike Rinder, people are becoming more informed. Except for ‘church’ members who won’t watch the show. I’ve read the comments on the petition to ban the show, most of them say “It’s all lies…” I’d like to know, which of the signers actually watched the show, and what, specifically, was a lie? The ‘church’ members are only repeating the official line, of “it’s all lies”. Let’s list each shows assertions and stories, and then, please tell me, Dear Scientologists, which statement is a lie, and show proof. Until you are able to directly do that, don’t keep saying the same old thing, it’s getting tiresome.
This kind of verbal dodge is called an “ad hominem” attack, where instead of refuting what was said, you attack the person saying it and try to cast them in a negative light.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
Yep, it’s always the same misdirection, ad hom attacks, beating around the bush and “it’s all lies” rubbish. That’s because Hubbard’s vile policy regarding critics tells them to “never defend, always attack”.
They can’t change policy so they keep up with the same old crap, despite the fact that it makes them look utterly foolish and proves exactly what critics are saying.
Most $ci’s have never watched Aftermath — especially Sea Org members, staff and the remaining die hards. They believe what the cult tells them, so in their mind, there’s no need to watch.
As Hubbard wrote: only criminals criticize $cientology. He was a clever bastard to come up with that utter nonsense as it keeps the clams in line.
Hello everyone and to TashaJ22 (Sept 27@9:57 PM)
You mentioned (and I have heard this before) about an petition to ban “Aftermath.” I understand there is also an petition to keep “Aftermath” on the air.
Could someone please let me know where I can add my signature to keep “Aftermath” on the air.
If there is a petition to keep “Aftermath” on the air, then I urge everyone to sign it.
Lance Caldwell.
The only petition I have seen is for the IRS to investigate Scientology’s Tax Exempt status. You can find it here:
https://www.change.org/p/irs-commissioner-john-koskinen-we-demand-the-irs-commissioner-begin-an-investigation-into-scientology-s-tax-exempt-status?recruiter=71709247&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
Who is he? I’m not familiar with him.
He was successful in “that 70s show”, and now is costarring with Ashton Kutcher (again) in the Netflix original comedy, “the Ranch”. He has no appeal or talent, as far as I can see. Ich. Lol.
good point… he’s virtually a nobody in the acting biz. Even less known than Giovanni Ribisi or Juliette Lewis.
I mean, that is so sad.CCInt has gone from hosting high profile celebrities to filling its hallowed halls with a bunch of one act nobodies.
Pathetic.
The 70’s Show
Best known for his role on “That 70’s Show”. Check imdb.com for a short list of other acting roles
That ’70’s Show. The Ranch .
In addition to blaming the victims, he’s also and mainly blaming Leah. When it all comes crashing down every Scientologist will have the same talking points, “blame it on Leah.” Or whoever the latest soup-de-jour SP is.
I didn’t know David Miscavige is a golfer.
Does DM have balls or does he have to borrow them from one of his “security people”…..you know….the ones who protect him while he punches others out.
I think you have the dwarf pegged, Balletlady.
DM is the ” Short and Small Administrator ” – demeanor and stature
Thanks Mike, Scientology is as predicable as watching water circle the drain – always clockwise in my neck of the woods.
I’m glad you are taking a breather, I am too. Went and visited friends in AZ last month and am on my way to a State Park today where I can play. So grateful to so many speaking out these days 🙂
Rape is Terrible! …but we had a cult in Ohio that KILLED A WHOLE FAMILY! Beware of cults!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/10/24/cult-leader-convicted-killing-family-5-executed-in-ohio.html
Masterson could also start by apologizing for even ever having used the name DJ Donkeypunch, which is just a snide attempt to hide vile intentions by using a relatively unknown slang term for a form of anal rape (or at least, non-consensual violent or sexual assault). But scientologists don’t seem to have it in them to apologize or take responsibility, unless forced into public confessions by Scientology officials for tactical reasons – or when they’re pleading for leniency from the judge at a sentencing hearing.
I wonder if Masterson’s obsession with anal sex, outs him as another of Scientology’s closeted gay/bisexual actors. Nothing wrong with that, except that he’s supporting an organization that is repressively homophobic and intolerant towards the 99% of its members who aren’t coddled celebrities.
On the subject of Scientology’s strategically limited tolerance, if it’s okay to be gay outside the celebrity bubble, as members like Bodhi Elfman and Elisabeth Moss apparently think, then where are the gay members of Scientology’s leadership, Sea Org, staff, and general membership?
And let’s not forget the “punch” part of that name. As if it wasn’t bad enough to anal rape a woman (or man), the punch where he punches them hard in the head during or at the end of it is sadism. That’s some pretty evil shit going on there.
To readers new to Mike’s blog, go on Wiki leaks and read the definition of “donkey punch.” It will turn your stomach.
I have to laugh because I’ve read where old Tommy Cruise is having a hard time finding a 4th wife and now this clown is accused of raping 3 women who had the courage to come forward and report it. Yup sign me up for Scientology, I think the pressure you’ve been putting on them is outstanding!!!
Danny Masterson is going to pay them off and/or the cult is going to pay them off, and they’re going to go away. I hope I’m wrong.
🙁
Oh….Danny is doing his amends… ?
the “crims” in Scientology make up the damage for their dirty deeds they have done by tarnishing the Church of Scientologys public image
They pay oodles and oodles of cash to the various Scientology front groups, the IAS, and Planetary Clearing Ponzi Scam ?
Scientology is preparing Danny’s “dead agent” packs for when Danny blows
Cuz LRH says crims blow
No Celebrity in their right analytical mind would pass out those booklets unless they were an “Ethical Particle”
Put a sock in it, Masterson: https://www.flickr.com/photos/marksshoops/36392441271/in/dateposted-public/
Danny’s “PR handling” is coming from the top of Scientology and it goes something like this: Screw these rape victims. These women just “pulled it in” on themselves. (“pulled it in” is a term often used in Scientology and it means any harm done is the victim’s fault not the perpetrators fault because the victim “pulled it in”). This allows the Church of Scientology and it’s members to damage others but blame the victim for “pulling it in”. Along this line, this is something David Miscavige might say: It was not rape, at most it was just “not consenting sex”… a round of golf with your buddies and a smear campaign on these women will fix the problem. So, hire some private investigators and get the dirt on these women and trash them.
With the Church of Scientology it is always worse than you think.
My ex brother in law abused his daughter a child I know all to well how the blame game goes brother in law protected, niece pulled it in. I wonder when ex brother in law died from cancer had he pulled it in from his misdeeds I hope so asshole! I hope there’s no rest in hell!
Sorry also wanted to add he stated it was consensual for God’s sake she was 12 years old! Shame on you church of Scientology , WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES !!!!!
Good point, as a child does not have the mental capacity to agree to “consensual sex”. The human brain isn’t fully developed until humans are in their early 20’s. Not everyone matures at the same age either, & a teen can easily be taken advantage of by an older teen or adult who uses the “I love you, I want to be with you, I want to marry you tactic. .
So what was the reasoning behind a 14 year old Amy Scobee’s rape by an adult….did an innocent TEEN “pull it in” for herself……or the “teacher” who was fondling the young teen girl in class….did SHE “pull it in” on herself too?
These people sexually assaulted, molested, raped a CHILD & KNEW they could easily get away with it, that they’d be protected by their employer/church & they’d suffer no consequences for their crime. Obviously, “what are your crimes’ didn’t come out in their auditing sessions…or if it did, they paid financially to “remove the smear”.
Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children & molest (fondle) or rape them. Sadly there is a statute of limitations of 7 years. This needs to CHANGE. Children don’t “pull in” an invitation to be sexually assaulted in any form.
Robert: Keep in mind, too, that the “pulling it in” only goes one way in scio. In truth, scio has pulled it ALL in by their execrable behaviour and lies. Thus did Hubbard also “pull in in”, dying in hiding, in ddreadful health and an ignominious death.
Geez…it’s too bad the three women didn’t just report it to the CoS instead of going to the police. The whole thing could’ve been quietly handled with some auditing and a tidy donation to the IAS. Now all we have is black PR and Wog justice!
Unbelievable this perp and poor excuse for a human being is still walking around! I would love to see a comprehensive list of CoS celebrity members. I will not patronize any production these idiots are in.
Awful. I’m sickened and infuriated. I truly hope he is found guilty and put in jail.
This guy is a disgusting rapist.
It’s extremely rare for women to make up stories of rape. Most don’t report it because they’re embarrassed and feel ashamed.
I’m with you KatherineinCali. You said it straight up. I believe the women who told their stories about Danny Masterson. I read how he laughed about it. I believe the woman who told about Cosby. I believe Todd Bridges and Corey Feldman, males can be abused also. There are too many predatory men out there with a Danny Masterson mentality. The victims should never feel ashamed, we need to hear them and be supportive.
Yep, he laughed about it. What a repulsive human being.
My best friend of over 30 years was raped when we were both 17 yrs old. She couldn’t bring herself to report because she was ashamed, embarrassed, and thought the police wouldn’t believe her.
I begged her to report it but she never did. She was scarred emotionally & psychologically for many years. It affected many of her relationships with men as she found it extremely difficult to trust.
I sincerely hope Masterson is found guilty of rape. He’s a sick, twisted f**k.
KIC, unfortunately,there exist certain men who will have consensual sex with a women about whom they care nothing and afterwards laugh about the sex and the women who consented to it to their male friends. To say that this is awful for the women is a huge understatement, but its not rape. Rape has to be PROVEN. Hard, physical evidence. Pun intended.
Aqua, did you even read what happened? It wasn’t consensual. She didn’t consent. And please don’t make puns about rape. It isn’t funny.
No, I didn’t read all of it, you’re right.
“It wasn’t consensual”.
Well, if it wasn’t, then it was rape. And rape will have to be proven in a court of law because sex between 2 people is not, by default, rape. Sex is, by default, consensual untless the girl is below the age of consent.
Lastly, i apologize for that pun. That was out of line. I meant no disrespect or callousness to rape victims, honestly. That was just me being a smart ass. Sorry.
Am I reading you right Aquamarine? Did you just say sex is, by default, consensual unless the girl is below the age of consent? Are you on drugs? Even sex that begins as consensual becomes rape the minute one of the individuals says NO! Stop, or any other word that means the activity must end. There is no such thing as sex, by default being consensual. Age has NOTHING to do with it! No means no, whenever it is said. *shakes head in disbelief….*
Ann Marie T Beacock,
In answer to your questions: no, I’m not, nor have I ever been on any kind of drug, legal or otherwise,.
And, , yes, I agree with your valid point that “sex” is an amorphous term that can mean the complete act or any part of it, therefore I’ll clarify what I meant which was “sexual intercourse”.
I agree that if a woman proceeded to a certain stage in the sexual process and then called a halt to intercourse and the man forced it, technically its rape.
Having said that, I also believe that women should not be careless about giving the impression to a man she is going to sleep with him when she has no intention of doing so.
Put it this way: a man should never rape, should never force a woman when she’s saying “No”.
But a woman can help herself to not get raped by taking less RISKS with men.
This is just me but I don’t believe any adult woman should be fooling around too much with a man when she has no intentions of coming across, to put it crudely. Get to know the man first. See if you really LIKE him, as a person, before you fool around even in the preliminary stages. As a woman, control your OWN animal instincts, so that the man gets a clear signal that he needs to control HIS.
Just like no one should ever steal your purse or pick a pocket. Fine, agreed. Theft is worng and illegal. At the same time, why invite or increase the RISK of theft by waling around a crowded shopping mall with a semi-open handbag within which is a wad of cash plainly visible and easy to grab? No one does this on purpose!
Well, can’t this same logic apply to sex, or the sex process also? Once one is an adult female?
And before you or anyone piles on, the above is NOT blanket statement of explanation for the cause of rape.
Aquamarine, so it’s the woman’s responsibility to prevent her own rape? Men bear no responsibility for their behavior? Seriously? It takes two to fool around. How about they just say no to fooling around? How about men respect women enough as a fellow human being to stop when she says stop? Why is it always the woman’s responsibility?
Some statistics from RAINN:
– Only 344 out of every 1,000 sexual assaults are reported to police. That means about two out of three go unreported.
– Perpetrators of sexual violence are less likely to go to jail or prison than other criminals.
Out of 1000 rapes, 994 perps will walk free
– Perpetrators of rape are often serial criminals.
– Suspects who are released pre-trial often commit new crimes
– More than half of all alleged rapists have at least one other conviction (in this case, obviously, any other crimes were covered up because they were, “handled internally” with cult justice
Castrate and incarcerate.
“Castrate”? So, Sharia law?
Rape isn’t always penetration with a Penis…….objects are using as well, but it’s still rape. Yes, men get raped as well, especially in prison.
That’s true.
Yes, it’s all about their peer bubble. Mike Peña and Jason Doring are hanging with Mr. Cool, Danny M which makes him so cool. And OMG he owns his own cool bar where the cool people hang out.
Danny is following in the footsteps of his mentors by lying and ignoring any past conduct that might be considered criminal. That’s really cool, as Ron and Davey have demonstrated and look where they are today. So cool!
Was never a golfing fan. Don’t like the company it keeps.
After all the stories I have heard on the show with you and Leah, I am not surprised that the Church of Scientology has no problem standing behind an accused rapist. Especially when he is a celebrity that could potentially bring in more followers.
And more money.
And if Danny Masterson does have to do lower conditions in the church, it will only consist of paying tons of money to them. They’ll be happy to get the money and will forget the whole thing ever happened once he pays them.
The cherch is standing behind him not because they believe in his innocence. They may or may not believe him innocence. That he’s innocent of guilty matters not one whit to this cult. All that matters is how his situations reflects on THEM.
Notice he’s all neat and his beard is trim? Even his clothes are pressed. So transparent.
That’s like putting Jeffrey dahmer in charge of a charity BBQ.
Aahhhaha
Some assembly required…
Chuck roast anyone? Don’t be late or you will get the cold shoulder. Sorry, but I can never pass up an opportunity for Dahmer jokes.
DJ donkey punch?!? I’m done. Danny Masterson is a tool
Using Masterson as a human rights poster boy is a bad move on Corporate Scientologys part. But, thanks CCHR. 😀 in a twisted way, you’re helping. You just don’t get who you’re helping.
I want to see how much money they raise and exactly what kids’ charity it supports. One thing is missing from the photo. KIDS!
There is a special place in Hell for scumbags like this. Scamology has ALWAYS protected any criminal member that was also a whale or executive.
Scamology……….love it! We should have our own golfing tournie to promote the new name of Scientology………….worldwide of course! lol
Yes, Ann Marie
scam; A dishonest scheme; a fraud and; ology: A subject of study; a branch of knowledge.
Thus, LRH defined it [scamology] as a study and branch of knowledge of how to defraud people. 🙂
He’s a major scumbag. Tell me again why he’s still not in jail? I’d love to know.
Well , it’s like the song goes:
MONEY! Money, money, money,money!
Could it BE that he is considered a “celeb” & in essence he would bring in other celebs who would bring in other celebs & their large monetary donations???? Seems like that’s why he’s not in jail….the organization can’t afford to lose the income he’d generate.
Yes, and its horrifying, actually.
Danny is a criminal and totally irrelevant as an actor. Maybe he can open a Celebrity Centre at whatever prison he ends up.
Donkey Punch Criminon.
Agree
Dave,
In the end, you are the one who has been duped.
maybe but you are still an ass