I have finally made it home. The red eye lived up to its name. I have had this posting sitting on the back burner for a week or so, and I think it is always valuable to have a reminder here that it is possible to practice scientology outside the church. It is one of the things that is used to keep people toeing the church party line “we are your only hope” and for anyone that believes scientology is the answer to their spiritual happiness, this is a powerful control mechanism. “If you leave the church, you forfeit your eternity” (as if it were something you could give up, or something anyone else can give you). “The only people out there are squirrels, and they will kill you with out tech” (though I must say, if you are going to be harmed by out tech, the less you pay for it the better and the MOST expensive out tech is the exclusive domain of the church). These two lies keep a lot of people from straying outside the electric clubbed seal fences.
And yet here is a shining example that utterly disproves the lies.
Dani and Tami Lemberger are two of the nicest, most caring people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. They are long time, highly trained scientologists. They have a team of like-minded people working with them. The “ideal org” in Tel Aviv is like all the rest, an ideal morgue. Empty, shiny floors and vacant custom built chairs. Yet, a few miles away sits a flourishing center of activity. No marble floors. And no IAS Regges. No FART Div 6. And no Facebook Police. No GAG II. And no teenage Hitler Youth Ethics Officer.
Just good people wanting to help others.
On November 10, 2013, we posted an interview with Dani Lemberger, “Dror Center, One Year Later.”
We recently asked one of our Middle East Special Correspondents to check in again with Dani to see how their second year went.
Q: Hello Dani. We last met in Nov 2013. You were very happy at the time with your achievements after a year of being “indie”. Now you’ve completed the second full year, how did it go?
DL: Let’s start with the bottom line. You may recall that I showed you last year our single most important stat, “Monthly Public on Lines”. Well here it is for 2014.
Dani smiles with pride as he shows us the following graph and explains:
DL: You see here the two years 2013-2014. December 2014 was our “Highest Ever-Ever” with 59 public on lines! Before we left the church we had a highest of 51. And there are a few more guys on lines who failed to show up in December.
Q: This number means what?
DL: Simply the number of people who received services at Dror in December ’14, who have paid, of course, were on course or on auditing.
Q: Who are the people behind the numbers? What are the new developments?
DL: The most exciting news is that we are getting a lot of new public on lines. In November-December 2014 we had eleven[!] new people start services, most of whom have never before done any Scientology. This is our most important achievement. Also, in Dec ’14 we had five guys from Europe on services, three from Germany and two from Russia.
Q: From Europe they come to Haifa, why?
DL: It’s easiest to answer with the example of Alexander Dantser. His last services were at Flag in Dec 2013. Do they still call it “The Mecca of Technical Perfection”? This guy was kicked out of Flag in the middle of a major action, it just cannot be grasped. He first did L11, then made a major donation to the IAS, then started L10. He said something they didn’t like, in session, and got booted immediately. Shocking, I couldn’t believe it when he told us.
Q: How did he arrive at Dror?
DL: One of our friends operates a blog in Russian. Alexander read about us and in October came for a short visit, to check us out, he’s a smart businessman, did a thorough “Doubt Formula” before deciding. He liked what he saw, returned in November for six weeks and is now back home, solo’ing on OT II. He’s doing great, sending in rave success stories. It fills me with joy, to see the Tech applied and people having miraculous wins.
Q: And the other Europeans?
DL: Similar stories, people who were on church lines, left with dismay or disgust and found us. Vicky Kluyev is here from Moscow, Josef Thering from Berlin just left Dror after a second visit and currently Marion Koehler, also from Berlin, is here.
Q: And locals?
DL: Our major win is finally attracting new local public.
Q: What do you mean “finally”?
DL: The last few years under the Church, we couldn’t get new public to start on services. When they heard we were part of that cult, the Church of Scn, they fled. Now they know we are fully responsible for helping them, no one intervening from above. Some have never heard of Scientology yet want an effective system to improve their lives. Others have done some Scn in the past, they know the Tech works but refuse to go near the Church, so they come to us.
Q: How comes? They have an “Ideal Org”, the Alhambra in Tel Aviv…
DL: This is exactly what drives them away. A top designer came here after she was on tour at the Alhambra. She said the building is impressive, a huge investment, lavish and modern. It looks like a ritzy club, all chrome and glass, but no soul. She said she would never seek help or spiritual advice in such a gaudy place. Others have told us that when they walked in, there was no one to talk to.
Q: And how do you assure the delivery of “Standard Tech”?
DL: That, of course, is the key to our success. The public comes for Standard Tech. They want LRH’s Tech without additives or variations. The Church, under Miscavige, has bastardized it and perverted it repeatedly. They somehow reinvent “More-Standard-Than-Ever” Tech every few years by chopping it up, quickying, dropping key elements or by blanket C/S’ing. There are many examples, the Scn Drug RD has been “redone” but almost nothing left of it.
Q: How about the OT Levels?
DL: When you have OT 8’s redoing Purif and Objectives, under the guise of a “new release” called SRD, that’s just pathetic. It’s a disgrace.
Q: I meant, your delivery of the OT Levels …
DL: Well, lucky for Ron and for Scientology, the full materials of the OT Levels have been made available to all, freely, for many years. Many courageous and caring Scientologists have seen to it. We have trained with the best of them and still exchange data with top Tech specialists.
Q: Can you give me an example?
DL: OT I and OT II have been decimated at the Church, replaced with inferior Tech and quickied to the point of no wins, almost nothing accomplished by the Pre-OT’s. We made sure we had the proper, original LRH materials. We then consulted with Senior Tech terminals, some of whom have worked under Ron in the 1970’s. We have acquired the precise Tech, with full certainty. We’ve had recent completions of these levels with wonderful gains. I am very proud of our Tech team.
Q: Who are they?
DL: It is still Tami Lemberger, Aviv Bershadsky, Dima Dubinin, Moti Weizman and Carmela Weizman. We help other auditors around the world and brilliant individuals are always willing to support us as needed. The six of us at Dror have been working together for over fifteen years, in harmony, dedicated, making decent salaries, no moonlighting allowed.
Tami Lemberger
Aviv Bershadsky
Dima Dubinin
Moti Weizman
Carmela Weizman
Q: How about the top of the Bridge?
DL: Yes, thank you for reminding me. We’ve just had our first Solo NOTs completion, what the Church falsely calls “OT VII”. They’ve instituted an “E/P Check” that is insane. KGB-style interrogations to guarantee you get introverted and then your only win is from becoming an IAS Patron, a prerequisite to attesting to OT VII at Flag. Again, we researched NOTs, all LRH materials on it, and drew on the experience of experts who’ve delivered it before DM’s onslaught. We have smoothly brought Alex Shur to completion of the level with huge changes in his life, truly “cause over life”, across the dynamics, by his own attestation and real statistics in his day-to-day life.
Q: You sound very happy, too good to be true. Any concerns?
DL: Oh yes, serious ones. The church has destroyed the profession of auditing. I know of no young person aspiring to be auditor. We must create many new, young auditors. That’s my major goal in life now. We are working on streamlining the training of auditors and then attracting young talent. We need to set up a scholarship program to fund auditor training. I have ideas, we’re working on them.
Q: I saw something in the media about a lawsuit you filed against the Church?
DL: That’s a personal matter, has nothing to do with Dror. I had to protect myself, my livelihood and friends from their attacks. It’s part of creating a safe environment, exposing criminality. Most important, actually, applying “Ethics Gradients”; putting Ethics in on DM and his stooges. Some people are still intimidated, even terrorized, by the Church. It’s about setting an example, Ethics Presence, being honest, publicly and demonstrably upholding ones values, integrity.
Q: There’s been a lot of bad press about the Church, websites attacking them, an HBO documentary is coming soon. Any thoughts on that?
DL: Most websites and the films about Scientology expose the criminality of the Church but totally neglect the other side of the coin, the burgeoning “indie” field. There is more auditing occurring now outside the Church than within it. LRH Tech is producing miracles daily, that is the most important story and it should be told.
Q: Say or ask before we end?
DL: Thank you for coming, for your time and attention.
I hope the deliver ALL of LRH’s tect 100% standardly as he originally intended. Do they reject any part of LRH’s tech as being harmful or dangerous? I hope not – I want to go do my Introspection Rundown there.
I had an interesting thought..
Why dont we kill the church by showering people with love, kindness and excellent tech services?
Kinda like what dror is doing right now. Lets multiply that 10 fold (never use the number 47- ever!) and see what happens?
Beats bitchin and moaning, obliterates I know best and very well may be an exciting game to play, who knows?
Unchartered territory. Terra unfamiliarra (yes I made the word up – so what? 😉 )
Odd, Thank you so much for that comment. I, too, experienced cruelties’ in the Catholic Church etc. The 1st Buddhist I supposedly was being trained under wanted sex yet avoidance of that was some of what I was reading. This was a confusion for a while. I think we are all better off if we can view the world from a middle path and do our best to question everything that does not add-up and keep understanding more of it. After the 35yrs of S and the 5 of sorting out the things that did not add-up over the last 35yrs (a ‘back-log’), re-find myself and my own thoughts, I’m every day losing the judgments and beginning to see a real world. It must take a lifetime! But I can see that at least a person should question what does not add up and of course recognize when it does not. A person should be willing to change his mind and of course be able to recognize when his own mind is the one stopping a change that he has envisioned in some cases.
The one nice part about all this life is I’m quite certain that I will never be sitting around wishing for the ‘good ‘ol days’ LOL. Thanks again
(I see I’m 2 days late but posting anyway)
Thank you Mike for turning the light to a very positive aspect of the Scientology story, which is the Independent Scientology movement. When I post here on your blog, I mainly do so in the hope of connecting with my old friends who are still under the radar, keep their heads down, waiting for the church to “correct” matters. What the Dror center is doing is just one example of the scene that is being created in the U.S.
Only through the act of disconnecting from Miscaviges abomination of Scientology can when really go free. My trip from Clear to auditing on OT5 in the Indie field has been nothing short of life changing. I cannot stress enough how important it is to disconnect from the savage insane cult that corporate Scientology has become. And I have never come across anyone who has ever expressed regret about leaving the *church* or ever wanted to go back. It’s the best decision anyone could ever make. Just the act of doing so enables laters and layers of latent case gain to emerge. Best PTS handling I ever did was disconnect from those criminals.
I’m so happy for you Doug and I am also very grateful for the indie auditing that I’ve had. It was the best recovery that I could have had, flipping a bird at the incredible can’t have that the rcs has run on the public. Trey Lotz, Helen Chen, Randy Smith, Ingrid Smith are a few of the skilled and caring tech people, in the LA area, who I have heard first hand reports, regarding their delivery. The wins I:ve heard were moving, real, personal, beautiful, and done on the individuals own determinism. Independence means just taking charge of your own spiritual journey, owning it and managing it on your own terms. IMO there is no spiritual advancement without personal integrity, and once that datum was lost in the rcs, the game was over.
Thanks Jane. I could not agree more with what you said. The can’t-have that the RCS runs on people is just unspeakably suppressive. So many people gave so much for so long for so little in return. Miscavige can no longer stop Scientology from being used on the outside, in the light, by those with good intentions who wish to help others. That is the bright side of all this, people ARE becoming more able and people are winning again. I know people who are finally getting in back in session after years of having given up. I never get tired of hearing about it. I only wish my old friends (who are laying low) would just decide to bypass the cult forever and join those who are actually making real bridge progress.
I meant my last comment at the end here, after sheeplebane, id seemed to have jumped backward to the middle, here it is again.
Hemi
Sheeplebane, you rock too… 🙂
And you are quite RIGHT. And Brian, you are right.
And getting back to this blog’s issue, Dror, here’s a little example of what’s going on there, and of another guy who came out RIGHT after a day’s service there. It speaks for itself. And for Dror:
Win Nots 2014
I arrived today very “noisy” full of issues, good bad, ugly, but uncontrolled and hectic. Too much. Auditor cheered me up, smiling. We set to work, step by step slowly at first, quicker later, but always professional and positive. And with results!
In the end of the day, I felt really good. Yet another angle of good, another layer of goodness. A different taste.
What a tasty level, this Nots! Endless dishes and menus, some fantastic, some hard to digest (oh yes..!), some piece of cake….but all of them life shaking, life changing. And mood and tone altering, oh…BIG time!
I started slow and half blind, then got better, and better. And then I was doing difficult, ellusive things correctly and more and more RIGHT! Oh, the team work: at times fantastic and vital guidance by my auditor. At times I guide, and auditor follows, without interrupting, almost solo…but all really bingo and successful! Totally self-determined cooperation. End of the day…bliss.
And there’s the core of my great feeling today:
The wins come from working on the case, blowing charge in loads. But under all that, and below the ability to do it and do it so well, lies a wonderful carpet, a flying carpet, a powerful tool to work with: Being RIGHT. I get in this place the feeling that I am right. Always. In session I get it in such loads from my auditor that it helps overcome anything! I realized today how absolutely vital this attitude is!
I know today that this angelic, theta beingness by my auditor is the most powerful help there is. It is priceless!
Tami, thank you so much for making me right, and holding it in place no matter what. This is the real thing, the life provider. It is!
My universe is full of wrong things. That’s why I work so hard to fix it. And I can confront them all in time and make them right. But only by learning and adopting that example you give. And that everybody here at Dror gives. That I am right!
This is the big secret, the key element in getting all the countless wins I had so far. And perhaps the biggest win of them all.
Thank you for making me RIGHT. Yes, even when I totally forget it myself!!
Here’s to you and to all the rest of the freedom (Dror) gang! Cheers!
and much, much love,
Hemi
Sheeplebane, a very lovely summation. Bless you for it.
The interviever asked Dani why scientologists from Europe come to the Dror Center in Haifa. I am from Berlin, Germany and I love the structures of an orgboard. This intelligent shape gives a group of people security and effectivity when it is used on source. To have an indie-scientology group with highly trained personal and an orgboard in function: what a big luck!!! I didn’t find it in Germany and so I am a public of the Dror Center (okay. There are some more reasons. But this is one of the main reasons why I am there)
Great post Mike. It is so important to tell the whole story of Scn, the good the bad & the ugly. The wins and gains are the glue that has kept many trying and trying to make things go right or just endure in the rcs. I’m so happy for the success of the Dror center and very well done. This is a great template for others.
Brian – I empathize with what you are saying. In fact, it is VERY hard for me to understand how anyone can continue even just ‘the tech’ after all that has happened in Scientology during the last few decades.
HOWEVER, condemning a group of people who it seems EVERYONE agrees how wonderful, caring and unlike Scientology they actually are, is very tunnel vision thinking. Just Like Scientology.
Life is NOT black and white. Life is very very complicated. The Dror Center is flourishing. They are killing no one, stealing from no one, and most importantly NOT insisting that whoever joins give up their job, their life and their family. Whatever you want to call it and from wherever it came, it’s working for the Lembergers and their staff. Maybe because if anyone does, Israelis understand conflict and how many innocent people get cut down in the cross fire.
Reading all the anti-Sci blogs for so long, it is impossible to ignore how many people actually gained value from their time in Scientology, if only because of the tech. So if LRH created the tech. and he also abused his family, his messengers, his people. That does NOT mean the Dror Center will as well. Give them a chance. They would give you one.
Thanks Mike for posting this article about Dror Center and the great interview with Dani &Tami.
Having met Tami personally in 2012 we had a wonderful time together. I would not hesitate for a second to go in session with Tami, talk about an accomplished auditor who can handle anything!
It is thrilling to see that Dror Center is doing so well.
Mike, I think it would really help to see the positive aspects of what gets achieved using the tech in the field a bit more often. It helps to break up this one-way flow of ‘it is all bad’, which -really- is not true, but one may forget about it being served nothing but negative data.
Greta
First of all, please understand that I am writing this from a “never-in” perspective. Until Oct, 2014 I was in a relationship with someone who was and still is in for over 20 years. I’ve done mountains of research, talked to people both in an out of the CoS, read countless publications, and lived with one for several years so I can tell you that I know much more than the average WoG. During our relationship I had access to all of the internal publications, books and mailings/magazines that most of the general public never see. My ex also worked within an organization that had adopted and applied W.I.S.E. management tech (subject for a future posting). Having said that I have one question for this group.
How can anyone follow and believe in the teachings of an individual that created communications/policies such as…
“MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384
“If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 15 August 1960, Dept. of Govt. Affairs
“The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.” – L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955
“ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967. [SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]
“A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) “Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists”
“There is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves.” – L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING. 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980
“There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.” – L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170
“In all the broad Universe there is no other hope for Man than ourselves.” – L. Ron Hubbard, “Ron’s Journal” 1967
“THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them.” – L. Ron Hubbard, “Off the Time Track,” lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,.. I know I’m preaching to the choir at this point.
I’ve heard many replies to this question already. Typically they involve stories about how they choose to observe the good and ignore the bad, etc. or that Scientology has evolved into a twisted, ugly version of its glorious self and that it was “different in the beginning” when people just did it on their own, etc, etc.
I’ve heard from many ex-Scio’s that the so called benefits you might get from Scientology can be derived just as effectively; if not more, if you go to the source(s) from which LRH originally “creatively repurposed” (a.k.a. stole) ALL of his precepts. Why do some choose to keep the memory of this egomaniac alive by continuing to practice anything associated with his name or the cult he started? By continuing to practice any version of Scientology its hard to believe you haven’t exonerated; to a certain degree, LRH of wrong-doings.
I know the group I’m talking to. I have followed many of you for the past few years. In fact a lot of my research was aided by this very web site. For that I owe a lot of you a debt of gratitude, so please don’t take this as an attack. I am honestly looking to understand why individuals continue to practice the original core doctrine of a “cult” most have fought so hard to remove themselves from?
Great questions.
If you were to ask those questions in any scientology organization today you would be disposed of quietly and without sorrow.
If you were to try and ask them on any scientology website, you would be shunned, dead-filed and your questions would never make it on to their forum.
Interesting that Mike would let you ask them here, without censorship.
You could ask a few more questions like: Why would you follow a leader who tortures and beats his staff and then lies about it?
Why would you remain in a group that would punish you if you insisted on seeing exactly where your IAS dollars have gone?
There are hundreds of questions you might add to your list.
How could someone brought up as a Catholic possibly remain in the church or continue to pray to their God after finding out about Jesuit witch-hunts and other horrible crimes committed by the Catholic church including the recent pedophile scandal and cover up? What on earth would posess someone to stay?
Fear of death and damnation? The solace of prayer? Family ties? Work connections? They are just stupid dupes? Maybe they too want to be one of those sleazy priests?
For people like Dani and Tami, they have seen many peoples lives change for the better using counseling processes developed by Hubbard. They can make them work for the betterment of the people who come to them and they don’t intend to do anyone harm. I think I know them well enough to make that statement.
Every person had his own, personal reason to get involved and every person has his own personal reasons to exit. It’s not really hard to understand as long as you realize that each person has his own story. There may be similiarities but there is no single answer to your question of Why don’t they abandon it completely.
You are NOT alone in your feelings Wog3232. I respect and agree with your position. I also respect Mike for posting it.
Yo, Wog3232. I understand your points and concerns. Even when I was in, over 40 years ago, I knew that a lot of what LRH said was his own case speaking. So what? My concern was doing what *I* was doing which was helping others and being helped. When I knew that was getting more impossible to achieve, I quietly left. Everything in life is a lesson, brudder. If you don’t learn from it, you’re just not paying attention. To consistently talk about LRH’s shortcomings does not in any way erase my wins and gains. You can never take those away from me. Nor can you ever remove the incredible friendships I made, alive to this day. That includes the magnificent woman who shares my life. Ron’s shortcomings don’t even appear as a small weed compared to the giant oaks I took away with me.
You focus ONLY on the negatives. You state you were never in. Thus you have no positives with which to compare. You find fault correctly, but then make that the only information you have and base your never ending complaints on that limited information. As I stated earlier above, Dror sounds like the kind of scientology I experienced back in the 60s/70s. Great auditing, great training, great fun…and a hell of a lot of valuable and long lasting friends.
Wog3232,
I could write a whole essay on your comment and it would be on black/white approach, and on one making final decisions while still claiming to research. But it probably would be futile, because “you KNOW it all” on the subject, and so would not tend to let in new fresh information. Just as an example in your take on Ron’s: “THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM” it is obvious IMHO that you missed the point totally. Just seeing how the CoS DOES control thousands people by lying to them non stop… so simple. As for you as a researcher, and with truly full respect to you, did you stop to consider the Dror center phenomena, run by Dani and Tami and others, for so long with such great results? And them looking and being so good, sane and caring beings. They do practice Ron’s tech. Intelligently. And they don’t accept anything Ron said blindly, no way! Only what they truly believe is working, after years of experience. That has to be placed as a datum in your valid research too. Straw man arguments are an easy way. Looking in depth to form a responsible and wide view is not always easy, but can provide very useful and workable insights.
Hemi
Hemi wrote: “Just as an example in your take on Ron’s: ‘THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM’ it is obvious IMHO that you missed the point totally.”
Yes, Hemi, he (or she) did miss the point, and that line has been quoted by many people who don’t know the context and are merely re-quoting what others have written on blogs. In fact, most of the quotes he listed are the usual ones that keep getting repeated – out of context.
Wog3232, here is some of the context for the quote Hemi gave as an example, with a link at the bottom if you want to see the whole transcript:
———————————–
When you speak of “The Creator” you are probably speaking of something entirely different than implanted religion. Religion is always different than truth. It has to be, BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them.
When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you. One way or another this individual is trying to control you. That is the mechanism of control. This individual is lying to you because he is trying to control you – because if they give you enough misinformation they will pull you down the tone scale so that they can control you. Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not “is going to”, but “is” lying to you.
Check these facts, you will find they are always true. That person who is trying to control you is lying to you. He’s got to tell you lies in order to continue control, because the second you start telling anybody anything close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So, you can’t control somebody without telling them a bunch of lies. You will find that very often Command has this as its greatest weakness. It will try to control instead of leading. The next thing you know, it is lying to the crew. Lie, lie, lie, and it gets worse and worse, and all of a sudden the thing blows up.
Well, religion has done this. Organized religion tries to control, so therefore it must be lying. After a while it figures out (even itself) that it is lying, and then it starts down tone scale further and further, and all of a sudden people get down along this spring-like bottom heresy) and say, “Are we going into apathy and die, or are we going to revolt?” And they revolt because you can only lie to people so long.”
—————————————–
“TECHNIQUE 88: “OVERT ACTS, MOTIVATORS & DEDS ” CONTINUED,
25 June 1952.)
http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Tapes%20in%20order/5200c00%20tape%20transcripts/WEB/5206C25C.HTM
Dror Center, what happens when a person disagrees with LRH? Do you word clear and run ethics on that person until they accept the tech as “pure” and its source as “right,” or do you let them maintain their opinion and continue on with the coursework?
EXAMPLE #1:
“The ONLY reason a person gives up a study is because they went past a mis-understood word.”
This is obviously false. People often give up a study for many reasons. A medical student may give up medical school because of a car accident breaking their neck. So ONLY is false here.
EXAMPLE #2:
“The ONLY way to control someone is to lie to them.”
This is also false. I worked for many bosses who controlled my activities to achieve the organizations goals without having to lie to me. I have managed people without having to lie to them. “Only” doesn’t work here either.
So, what happens when some plucky person says “Hey, this here is bullshit! I understand it but don’t accept it as fact but only as allegory.”
Do you let them move on without taking LRH”s ideas as fact, or do you make them move OUT?
Hippasus, we keep standart tech at Dror, but it doesn’t mean that other people have no right to their own opinion. Sometimes disagreement is a result of misunderstanding. But as Trey Lots wrote, you must use judgement in application of the tech. For sure you can voice your disagreements without being made wrong, nor sent to Ethics.
The Lembergers and the crew at Dror are exemplars of what Jacob Bronowski called “the democracy of the intellect”. Once knowledge is written down, it cannot fail to spread unless repressed (and sometimes not even then). L. Ron wanted to have his cake and eat it too, his word spread yet still under his control. It’s the inherent contradiction in KSW #1 that programs that policy for its own destruction.
Bronowski said, “The democracy of the intellect comes from the printed book…what every strong intellect wants to be is a guardian of integrity.” I’m sure that Bronowski, if he were with us today, would include the Internet as an even greater force for the democracy of the intellect. But the conclusion remains the same. Dani and Tami and their group are strong intellects, and they desire to be guardians of integrity in an environment where they believe the integrity is lost.
I may not agree with the integrity that they wish to guard. I may believe that it’s better that the name of L. Ron Hubbard and all his works disappear forever. But I surely admire their actions.
I watched the you-tube with Claudio Lugli with Dani as well as another video. Both Dani & Tami come across as good caring people to me. Claudio who still is suffering from the effects of disconnection to this day still believes, to what extent I do not know. He felt strongly enough at the time to talk for over 90 minutes at Dror. However I think his presence at Dror as well as the feeling I get from watching Dani & Tami is these are not bad people. Not in any sense of the word they see some merit in the tech.
I was raised Roman Catholic so I am well aware of the draconian tactics used so long ago by Nuns at school. I also experienced the hippie Jesus freaks first hand. Yet something that happened 5-6 decades ago to me is not relevant it was a different time. Actually fundamentalism practiced in any era is not representative of any religion. Also even in those times you could verbally spar with the hippies or even the Nuns. The same could not be said of a Scientologist you met during the 70-80’s period, I tried countless times.
Now being more Buddhist having studied other Eastern teachings and philosophies I see no harm with Dror. I have read some of the Scientology teachings, listened to some lectures read RJ67 and so on. For me as soon as I heard LRH lecturing I could tell it was not for me he was to condescending, arrogant lofty and totally lacking in specifics.
Yet if human beings on this Earth find some merit or value to what Dror is teaching so be it.
Corporate Scientology is dying thanks to David Miscavige if some individuals still find benefit let them study the tech get auditing what ever, where is the harm. Psychology is just talk therapy while I believe auditing is a little extreme and to guided. Let the money grubbing criminal cherch of scientology continue it’s death spiral into the ground.
At the same time let Dror or others live their lives as the see fit.
I neither believe in nor practice Scientology anymore, but I’ve always said that people should be free to practice it if they want. But if they are going to, at least do so correctly… this looks to me like what the Dror Center is doing. And it’s certainly NOT what Flag and the Idle Morgues are doing!
Welcome back Mike – hope you did not get the NOGAFAY Rundown from Jenny Linson, Ecclesiastical Management for the Church of Scientology.
The rundown of: “No one gives a F$#@ about you” – like she gave Marty Rathbun.
It was really spiritual and theta – the way she behaved in public. NOT!
I am so happy Marty video taped her behavior and sent it viral on the internet. It went far and wide.
Great post and VWD to Dani and team. We are al so happy for you all that you are not allowing David Miscavige to suppress you.
You are all flourishing and prospering and that is good news.
I must admit that I am happy that it drives David Miscavige NUTS that you are doing better than the Billion Dollar Organization that hides its crimes behind the “religious cloak”.
Please continue and may you all do very, very well in life!!
I’m happy for Dror Mission, religious coexistence.
Wow! An actual graph showing actual numbers. Something the C of $ has not done for years (except to show an arrow going up and labeling it 47X – 47X what?).
“I know of no young person aspiring to be auditor. We must create many new, young auditors.”
I can only speak for myself (being still kinda…err young-ish…) but I think the main problem is that young people today now know fully well that participation in Scientology ultimately results in BT exorcism. They also know that LRH died a dribbling loon. It’s not much of an incentive, no matter how many “wins” one can claim to have enroute. The actual processes used on these levels are comparable to guided imagery and visualisation – psychological tools that can and do produce results in some people – so I don’t doubt their therapeutic value. It’s just that Hubbard wrapped them up in a rather nonsensical narrative that, imho, should be disposed of quietly and without sorrow.
Interesting idea. I hope that I am not too cynical of my generation, but I don’t think that I can be too hopeful about the ones who are coming. There’s some who subscribe to an idea that “the between lives area” is not some horrible place of implanting or bad, bad, bad!!!, but a place of release and full-of-knowingness.
And that those who are coming in to the world from that plane are not broken pieces, full of trauma that needs to be audited out, and FAST!, but people who see the world more brightly and accurately and more playfully than the preceding generation. Every generation brings brighter people; it’s imaginable to me that less people “need” auditing than before. Also, I think that the information that’s circulating in the world is more supportive of people and thought and creativity. Many people are saying we are in an “age of awakening” and I see plenty of evidence of that. Perhaps auditing is less needed now than before.
So, how do they handle Xenu and OTIII? That’s where the whole BT ripoff begins. I’d be interested how they broach that subject. Metaphor? Literal?
I thought then and do now that OTIII is/was Ron’s own case. As I’ve mentioned a number of times here and on Ortega’s blog, I realized during 3 that in order to process the BTs, I first had to create them. Bingo!
I think it was Geir Isene who suggested that BTs were simply stuck/old viewpoints and that the upper levels were essentially an exercise in responsibility. With such an approach, there’d be no need for Hubbard’s potentially harmful sci-fi theology. The processes would still be the same. It would make the subject faaaar more attractive to the public, especially younger people, academics and the well-educated. Imho.
Thanks for this post, Mike. It really does illustrate the axiom “Intention is cause” and proves that good intentions produce good results.
One thing that I would say is that all other considerations, e.g. restoring LRH’s or Scientology’s good name, promoting Scn as “THE ONE AND ONLY” solution, etc. are of much less importance than simply helping people to free themselves from irrational compulsions. In fact, I would say that broadening my knowledge base by studying other philosophies and sciences is as important and has helped me in at least equal measure to anything I’ve done in Scientology.
That being said, without what I have learned and achieved in Scn, I’m not sure that I would have developed a keen facility for studying and conceptually understanding the “other practices” that have so broadened my knowledge base. So for my money, Scientology (as “Knowing how to Know”) definitely works and is worth it – and I shall continue my journey “up the bridge” (on Grade II now) as I see fit and as long as it is right for me.
Thanks again for not “Throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.
I like that very much. Good points.
Good judgement=the correct estimation of effort.
Good ARC=you understand what it is you are looking at.
Both are necessary for the correct application of any technology from medicine to car repair to management to cutting diamonds.
Even a correct technology applied to the wrong situation will end up in a bad result.
Mike, thank you for this hearty post!
These days we see and hear a great deal of bad and negative aspects of the subject as practiced in the RCS. Much of that exposure is important and valuable in the cause of eradicating pure Evil and promoting Truth and sanity.
But as can happen with any extreme activity, doing so while forgetting the other side, the positive, the bright, the True, can be a huge, sad, miss.
Practicing the tech freely and intelligently, as numerous people attest, can and is changing lives and is a true, valid and practical spiritual path.
Mike wrote:
“Dani and Tami Lemberger are two of the nicest, most caring people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. They are long time, highly trained scientologists. They have a team of like-minded people working with them. A flourishing center of activity. No marble floors. And no IAS Regges. No FART Div 6. And no Facebook Police. No GAG II. And no teenage Hitler Youth Ethics Officer. Just good people wanting to help others.”
Being an extremely happy public of Dror, (and extremely unhappy public of the CoS), I couldn’t agree more!!! And I have been with them from day 1 as Indies. And it has been and is an honor and great joy to get service there, and grow and learn and find more and more who the heaven I am… 🙂 Because from the moment I step in there to the moment I leave, the only valid agenda is ME and my well being and nothing else. And that has been a wonderful adventure full of fun, laughter, truth, friendship, love and….yes, hard spiritual work in the full sense of the word, to crack my own case, and step by step find this vast and unbelievable universe which is me.
And here’s an exclusive scoop about Dror, Mike, 1st time on the net: When you go into the back area of Dror beyond the auditing rooms, where few people venture, you discover a spring of clear water, forming a lovely pool, where fish and water plants abound. And if you look carefully, you will soon discover 6 beautiful Goldfishes shining in the golden sun. This is a true, and I go there and watch them after every BIG win.
I have seen the spring and these goldfishes countless times….
And may be that clear fresh water spring symbolizes that whole place. And the 6 goldfish symbolize the 6 shiny staff people making up a true spiritual center and a true golden path possible with the Tech, accompanied by a true and huge ARC with the environment!
Truly well done Dror, keep it up!!! Love you all beyond words,
Hemi 🙂
This is how I imagined the Dror center to be. Even down to the fish! I was right there in the center with you for a moment! Thanks!
What a brilliant comment, Hemi. I will keep that pool and those goldfish in mind for the future.
I for a while have suspected more auditing was being delivered outside the Church than inside it. It is good to learn that the technology again is being applied correctly and that people are getting what they pay for.
Any technology has to be applied with good judgement and with good ARC in order to be effective.
Now that’s a breath of fresh air.
It gets so tiring try to digest and weed your way through just about everything regarding Scientology is just so bad! Ortega’s, Marty’s and ESMB all punch home how terrible it all is etc etc over and over and miscavige is just following his indoctrination as Hubbard was evil to begin with – what crap! I remember well when the saying, “if it’s not fun it’s not Scientology” was commonly mentioned within the group and it was even used an as a response to when someone was squirreling. It’s amazing how bad news along with low tone agreement can get such a hold.
This is far from a perfect world and anyone can find errors with anything in it. It’s easy to make anything wrong, it comes naturally to a lot of people and can easily become their favourite pastime in lieu of something more intelligent to do but I salute those people at the Dror Centre and wish them every success.
To those that will continue to attack people like that and whatever technology they use to produce satisfied clients – get lost! There’s an old saying that goes something like – “those that say something cannot be done should not interrupt those that are doing it.”
Well said, Sir YawnAlot!
Thank you Mike for sending in your correspondent. I really enjoyed talking to her.
There is so much bad press about Scientology these days, I am glad we can make a difference. DM’s crimes have destroyed the repute of Scn and many think of LRH as a madman.
The simple fact remains, the Tech not only is alive and well, it even produces daily miracles.
This is proven all over the world by practitioners who are just making it happen. Tami and I are now in South Africa and there is a bustling scene here. The whole Bridge delivered with spectacular results.
This is excellent and encouraging news for those who want to continue. I am pretty sure that Dror centre is much closer to the easy going scientology community of the 70s than the high-gloss “always-smile-always-upstat-db-free-KR-culture” extant today.
If they are willing to share, it would be really nice to see an article showcasing LDW’s experiences. I have serious doubts that I will ever touch scientoloogy again in my life, but it is still a breath of fresh air to hear about people doing what they really wanted to do when they joined. Definitely a very welcome change to the sewage spewed forth from the cult on a daily basis.
I know the Tami and Dani for over 30 years, and they are amazing honest people who really care and want to help others! Tami and her Technical team are dedicated standard auditors, whom create miracles on a daily basis using LRH Tech! Congratulations and Very Well Done for your expansion! You are one of the strongest stable datum of scientology in the world today!
I do encourage all the auditors out there to deliver and audit. I started to audit again about 2 years ago, after a short comm with Tami and I thank you, Tami, for that. Auditing in the field with out the stops and arbitreries produces amazing fabulous results for the pc.
You are the best Dror Center and I love you very much!
Dror Center was always a great example if delivering standard Scientology, even before they became indies. I personally know The Lembergers for 35 years, way before Scientology. Our children grew up together in different stages of our lives. Your are right Mike, by stating they are the most nicest and caring people. I had the pleasure to meet their staff as well. Very dedicated people who truly understand the importance of Ron’s Standard Tech and who overcame lots of pressure from the Church to stick to their guns. The Lembergers, by continuing delivering Dianetics and Scientology, gave us, the Charnys, a strong encouragement and support and set a great example for us to publicly announce our departure and proclaim our independence.
Dani is correct when stating all the negative publicity the Church getting now, there is one major factor is forgotten: LRH Tech that made many of us so happy and dedicated. The Church is promoting the idea and is holding a sword above all Church members that they “will never make it and they will never achieve the freedom in their lives and will lose their eternity”. This IS A BIG LIE, and Dror is a great example of that. The cooperation in the Indie field is great and should get more attention.
Congratulations on the amazing stats and delivery.
Yossi
Welcome Home!
“Yet, a few miles away sits a flourishing center of activity. No marble floors. And no IAS Regges. No FART Div 6. And no Facebook Police. No GAG II. And no teenage Hitler Youth Ethics Officer.
Just good people wanting to help others.”
Oh Yea! I forgot! This is what is was like when I got in. What a breath of fresh air to read this.
Thats great and it suppose to be like that ecause before all this madness innthe early days of Hay days of St Hill
there was happy faces taking services people in good comm, and lots of people just enjoying being at the place to be
Dror sounds like that and great .
lovey news great congratulations DrorCentre Warm reegards Hadley UK
Thanks!
Hi Mike;
That the Indie field is alive and well, growing, flourishing, is vital to know. I think if CofSers really grasped that they can actually achieve their goals outside the cult, they wouldn’t hesitate on checking the field out.
There are some groups that are utterly dedicated to LRH tech, one of them is “The Courseroom” in southern Georgia, with John and Mike and Wolfgang. I’ve been there twice and have been very, very happy with the handlings I’ve received. I’m planning on my third trip as soon as I can, and recommend any who still have that dream to check The Courseroom out and check it out.
Tami, Dani and Dror Center,
Thanks for sharing your wonderful story and congratulations on a continuing uptrend. You set a wonderful example of what can happen when people really care about helping others. That is a universal solvent and you folks demonstrate it to the nines!
Coop
Cooper, thank you very much!
MML,
Aviv
🙂
Greta
I am happy to be a part of Dror success. If there is a hope scientology tech would salvage mankind it would happen in indie field.
Thanks Alex! We are happy to have you in our group. Congratulations on completing Solo NOTs!
MML,
Aviv
A graph with the axes labeled and quantified. What a concept!
gorillavee,
You beat to the punch because in reading this my first thought was, “OMG, a real graph, a real Scientology graph from an org that delivers Scientology. Its not a cartoon, it doesn’t explode, and it actually gives you the information needed, itsa graph!
Mike, thank you very much for posting this as I am among those who still love the tech because it worked for me and I want more of it despite all I know about LRH’s character flaws, mistakes and out-ethics behavior.
Dani, Tami and Dror staff, thank you for sharing your encouraging news, and warm congratulations on your Normal Trend. I would love to come to your org. In fact, I’ve been considering it for some time now. Besides I’ve always wanted to visit Israel.
Aquamarine, you are more then wellcome here. Thank you for your kind words.
Fantastic, and I can attest these auditors are caring, dedicated, and not judgmental at all. People that attend are relaxed, comfortable, enjoying what they are doing with no unnecessary interruptions of arbitrary MAA cycles and, specially, no vultures trying to rip them off of money.
Glad the staff are doing well and that people likes it. Than you Dani, Tami and the rest of a happy team.
Thank you Silvia, your contribution in training us in NOTs and other OT Levels Tech, has a considerable part in our success.
MML,
Aviv
“Some people become so bitter about their experiences in the Co$ that they lose / invalidate their
wins and things go out of balance. This could be quite easily be remedied with a review.” Well said, Greta!
Good news from good people. I was fortunate to meet Dani and Tami in SF some years back, and they made an immediate and strong impression. I remember at the time thinking that they’d be major contributors to Scientology, so I am not at all surprised by their successes.
I am not in agreement with the OT levels 3 on up, due to the whole indoctrination that’s required to run them, but it’s imaginable that they’d still bring benefit even so.
I’d be particularly impressed if people still benefited from these if they were to audit them even after becoming fully “educated” about what they are, including an education regarding the various analyses that have been made about the various “events” in these materials that just don’t stand up to scientific scrutiny.
(I don’t doubt the miracles attributed to a strong faith in anything including ouija boards, voodoo dolls or the virgin birth. But faith of this sort seems to always have as a requirement a naivety of facts or science. I am not certain, but I think that most of those miracles were manifested by faith-filled but uneducated people. Perhaps more people would eat this stuff up if Ron would come back and revise some of these original materials so that they’d be a little more in alignment with current scientific thought?)
I am aware of people who have claimed benefit from addressing “entities” other than themselves in therapies aside from Scientology. One that comes to mind is Vernon Woolf’s “Holodynamics”. I personally don’t think that there’s any other entity messing with me, than “me”. But that’s only “me” thinking so, or so I think (or it’s another thinking so and getting me to think that it’s only me…)(wink).
I think when people are addressing entities they are really addressing facets of themselves, and not truly others.
But I know that there’s some people thinking that people are harming themselves as they audit the OT levels and they point out the seeming high incidence of cancer and other illnesses befalling people on the OT levels. I don’t know. Ron is not the only one who’s postulated the connection between stress and health; it’s so often talked about that it’s basically Reader’s Digest material. How stressful is it to consider BTs have got something to do with your problems and then address them? I’ve never done them, so I can only imagine. But as I imagine that, it does not seem to be stressful.
I am hazarding a guess that auditing BTs on the OT levels is not in itself, stressful. But that any auditing of any sort would be stressful where there is, in the immediate environment of the auditing, heavy ethics and invalidation and evaluation. And that is the environment one audits in as one audits within the church.
So, I am thinking that we might see in the future of Dror auditing, a higher percentage of people who remain healthy while and after doing their OT levels than we see in the Church.
I am a bigger of fan of the Grades and Power and Dianetics. Yes, those same processes that produce the “euphoric states” and “increase the dopamine levels” as John Atack is snarking about over at Tony O’s blog. John says that these are temporary highs. Maybe for him and some others. But I still am in a euphoric state with increased dopamine now, more than forty years after my first auditing. Lucky me; poor John.
Yes; I’ll take euphoria over “reality” as most see it.
But I take that back. No “Poor John”. Everything is temporary, including I am sure, my wins from auditing. It’s persistence, in my case is due to the fact that I have claimed it and decisively continue to “put it there”. I’ve done that with the highs I have gotten from auditing and from the highs I have gotten from all the first kisses from all the girls I’ve known before…
My very best to Dani and Tami and all their henchmen, and to all auditors everywhere, including, perhaps especially, the “squirrels*” (*independent thinking people who realized that we are, each one of us, Source). Life is supposed to be fun and auditors who audit solely with the intention of bringing people uptone and couldn’t care less about memberships, dogma and certified states of existence are a good part of the cast and crew who are making living on this planet a lot more fun.
Beautifully written and expressed, Dan. When I did OTIII, my realization was that in order to run BTs, I had to first create them. My secondary realization was that OTIII was Ron’s case. I laughed all the way through the qual check and the Success Officer. (I did not, of course, give them my REAL cognition, but had an excellent one quickly prepared which seemed to suit everyone.)
But I would disagree with you re the lower grades, in particular, and Power Processes (the originals) in particular. Very useful. I watched many folks change their lives on TRs only and definitely disagree with “Jon” that it was all hypnosis. (Have no idea of how TRs are run since the beginning of the 80s. Maybe it has *become* hypnotic.”
G-man – I must have a misplaced comma in there somewhere… I DO very much enjoy the grades and Power Processing. We’re birds of a feather…
Dan addresses some extremely interesting points. Some people claim great gains from the OT sections. Some who have done them now say they disbelieve them completely. John Atack wholly invalidates all the gains people have said they have gotten from Scientology and every part of the philosophy itself (which is why I think he is pretty much full of shit by the way and has no real understanding of what he studied in Scientology). Atack is guilty of the same phenomenon that he and others claim that CoS personnel are guilty of. That of NOT ALLOWING OTHER BEINGS TO HAVE THEIR OWN REALITY WITHOUT NULLIFYING THAT REALITY. According to Atack, my reality of what I experienced in Scientology is not valid. Only HE speaks to what “THE REAL TRUTH IS.” And Tony Ortega, who has never studied Scientology or been audited, accepts every thing he says as “truth.” Church of Scientology personnel of course do the SAME thing as Atack does. THEY have the only “reality” on life. Now according to the New Testament, only Jesus is the light and the truth. The concept LRH presents in 8-8008 of different universes and realities apparently can never be accepted by any organized (or even organized I guess) religion, including Scientology. Ron had some beautiful things to say and contribute. While it is too bad that he himself could not apply them or even continue to accept them, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have that ability. All praise to the power of an individual being to observe life and discern and decide for himself his own viewpoints and opinions.
Joe P.
Thank you for expressing in clear text what I only THOUGHT about Jon Atak. He seems to be a very diligent, honest researcher but his content is expressed looking through dark glasses of NEGATIVITY, ALL of it and that is simply unreal and can only lead to incorrect results, like auditing = hypnosis.
Some people become so bitter about their experiences in the Co$ that they lose / invalidate their
wins and things go out of balance. This could be quite easily be remedied with a review. Dror
Center would definitely be a place to get this resolved.
Whether wins in auditing, having a “Runner’s High” or having a great time at a party,who gives a flying one about Dopamine levels. One remembers the good times and these memories cannot be erased. It simply does not work to erase uncharged good memories. Try it, good luck!
Greta
Marvelous comment, Joe. You, too, Greta. I will *never* forget my Power Plus auditing and the cog which I had that totally altered my life. It happened over 40 years ago and is as fresh in my memory as yesterday. Many other sessions also ended what I considered as “magnficent”. I got give a damn what anyone else thinks about them. Jon, for reasons unknown, seems to be very bitter about his results. Bad auditing? Bad CSing? MUs? Who knows. I respect the guy but he’s made a career about dissing everything and incorrectly identifying everything as “hypnotism”.
I did OT 2 &3 twice to good effect. I’d read the OT 3 materials prior to this
and didn’t consider them factual. I surveyed others around 10 years ago and
found around 70% IIRC also didn’t consider the story factual. Yet most got
good results.
There is a tag status for each Solo Nots auditor:
Green tag: audit 4 to 6 sessions daily and comes on time for his 6 months check.
Grey tag: audit less than 4 sessions daily and doesn’t come on time for his 6 month check.
Orange tag: Not allowed to solo audit because of out ethics situation.
Purple tag: Not allowed to audit because of illness or sickness.
Black tag: Disaffected with the church.
See the way it works? One starts the level with a Green tag then, depending on his “ability to be Cause over Life” one keeps his Green tag or, follow the dwindling spiral to Black tag.
There are about 5,300 Solo Nots Auditors worldwide and about(depending on their current status):
1,000 Green tags
1,100 Grey tags
900 Orange tags
800 Purple tags
1,500 Black tags
The 10,000 on Solo Nots is just a dream. There is only 1,000 of them auditing regularly.
I was Solo Nots D of P Europe……..
In the independent / FZ I’ve heard of no such tragedies. If anyone else has I’d be
interested in details. One dosn’t have the stresses that one gets at Flag on these levels.
Note I’m not the SOLO NOTs D of P. I quoted one who is and posted these stats.
Terril Park,
I was Solo Nots D of P for about 4 years. There were lots of arbitraries and there still are. One of the biggest arbitraries is that you can’t get Solo Nots outside the Church and they wave this threat of “not achieving eternity” to all OT’s. This level IS attainable in the field, and it is delivered standardly, without any arbitraries. Our field group delivers this level with great success. The more people know the entire bridge is available, the faster we can remove the chains of suppression.
Even though I have given up on LRH and his tech, it need be said that the Lembergers seem to be the best example of how the Indie field can be both practicle & decent. Being an Israeli I met with Dani & Tami and they are indeed a charming, and brave, couple. More power to them.
What a great interview, Mike! We need to put attention on the good that is happening in the Indie field regarding auditing delivery and training of auditors. Dani and his crew are doing an excellent job and I love his goal to make more auditors. This good news needs to be republished every 3 to 6 months, Mike. That way people know that the tech works despite what any documentary or movie says to the contrary. And people want Scientology, the real Scientology, despite what any documentary or movie says. That is the news worth writing about! Thank you for a great post and well done to the Dror Center for their actual upstats with no padding or lies!
Thank you so much, Cindy, for your kind words. Can’t agree with you more.
MML, Aviv
No, THANK YOU, Aviv, for your good work there! And to Dani and Tammy and the others there too!
It’s great that the Dror Center exists! When you apply the genuine Technology of LRH, you move up the Bridge much easier. I’m a public of Dror since the year 2000. I got auditing and training at the highest level of professionalism. The atmosphere at Dror is very calm and warm as though at home. I strongly recommend visiting Dror and taking its high-quality services!
Aaahhh! A breath of fresh air at last! It’s good to see these guys making it happen. I remember when they first told the “church”(hate to use the term) to go to hell. That was so exciting and now finding out how well they’re doing and that they’re maintaining their integrity, is very good news.
I really can relate to what Dani says about people not wanting to become auditors. I remember that at one
time, that was something I wanted to do. Back when they still had missions.
Whether a person can levitate mountains at OT or not is not important, but there ARE many gains to be had from the Scn. tech. I don’t know about Ron. Maybe he had two personalities or what. But in spite of the outpoints in his life and his craving for admiration, he was also interested, like many of us in this world, in finding out what makes us tick and how to become better beings. And he came up with some really valuable and useful tech. Dani’s work is proof of this and I know that, like myself, many of you out there have had some amazing experiences and fine gains from the use of the tech.
Congratulations to the Lembergers for their success in keeping up the good work.
Excellent report Dani, wonderful progress of truth.
Mr. Rinder, will we be able to read your most recent testimony?
Lovely article, Mike. Thanks. I have had the pleasure of establishing a wonderful comm-line with Dani too. I consider him a true friend. He and Tami are coming to South Africa and will be talking at the “first ever” South African gathering of Ex/Indy/SP/Long Gone/Old Timers/Apostates. It’s happening next weekend (8th Feb) and I believe there are in excess of 100 people confirmed to attend. I am really looking forward to finally meeting Dani and Tami in person – and of course having a big PARTY with all my other “SP/apostate” friends too 🙂
Scientology was always promoted as a standard administration subject as well as counseling.
Dani, part of the admin tech, how you deal with the group and how you relate to seniors and how to protect power is why Ron wrote Bolivar.
Bolivar is standard Ron. Original Ron. It is an instruction to violence.
Wll you apply this original Ron?
If not why not? If you do not apply this, then you are not applying 100% Ron’s religion. Please instruct us on how you will be applying some of source of the Black Ops, destroy utterly type of Ron?
Brian,
When I was six years old, I sat in the back of my first grade class at St. Athanasius Catholic School and watched Sister Joseph Benigna, all five-foot seven, one hundred sixty plus pounds of her, grab the hair of a fellow six year-old and slam his head into the blackboard – because he was talking in class. This was a few weeks after she extracted a wad of chewing gum from another student and pushed it maliciously into his scalp, requiring it to be “cut out” by his mother. This was the Ethics tech as practiced in 1959 by the Catholic nuns at my church. I was frightened by it. I was offended by the juxtaposition of such violent acts and Christ’s apparent compassion for all of Man. Yes, even as a six year-old I had those thoughts and wondered. But I never lost faith in a God, the basic goodness of people (Catholics included) or that most were actually trying to help others.
Fast forward 14 years to Redondo Beach, California in the summer of 1972, where I watched scores of “Jesus Freaks” proselytizing THEIR version of Christianity along the beaches. This would include the robotic regurgitation of scriptures, chapter and verse with absolutely no understanding of what the words meant, as demonstrated by their penchant to become extremely agitated and run away when confronted by anyone who asked them – why? They used forceful communication, intolerance to new ideas, absolute acceptance of dogma and zero ability to differentiate. Sound at all familiar? But I never believed all Christians were bad, or mean spirited – just that they were as apt to be nutty, dogmatic and unforgiving as anyone else.
There are thousands of people who experienced positive gains from SCN, including myself. Unfortunately, there is probably an equal number who did not. Who were hurt, abused, mislead and mistreated all in the name of a religion — as defined by their abusers. As was done by those nuns. As was done by those “Jesus Freaks” along The Strand in Redondo Beach.
I have never met a person, subject, animal, authority or potted plant that was all good, all the time. It just doesn’t exist. Scientology was never all good. Ron was a flawed man. He was egotistical and self-centered and at times, despotic. You can either accept that there was some good that he did, or not. It makes no real sense to me to insist that everyone agree, one way or the other. That’s kind of like what he was doing at times and certainly what the RCS is demanding right now.
I applaud what Dani and Tami are doing and their desire to maintain an Indie field. In the same way and with the same intensity, that I applaud the actions that are dismantling the RCS. They are not the same.
Odd
Odd Thomas, you are wise and sane. I agree with the way you see things..
We do need as much sanity as possible on this troubled planet.
I am on Nots approaching Solo Nots, with great wins, AS AN INDIE. Knowing what is done on this level, I honestly cannot imagine how in hell I could have gone through such level in the CoS. Practically impossible without going bonnkers. You cannot survive with all the evals, invals, thought policing…impossible. Just to highlight my words on wisdom and sanity here’s a little Zen story which I like.
Heaven and Hell
Hakuin, the fiery and intensely dynamic Zen master, was once visited by a samurai warrior.
“I want to know about heaven and hell,” said the samurai. “Do they really exist?” he asked Hakuin.
Hakuin looked at the soldier and asked, “Who are you?”
“I am a samurai,” announced the proud warrior.
“Ha!” exclaimed Hakuin. “What makes you think you can understand such insightful things? You are merely a callous, brutish soldier! Go away and do not waste my time with your foolish questions,” Hakuin said, waving his hand to drive away the samurai.
The enraged samurai couldn’t take Hakuin’s insults. He drew his sword, readied for the kill, when Hakuin calmly retorted, “Here open the gates of Hell.”
The soldier was taken aback. His face softened. Humbled by the wisdom of Hakuin, he put away his sword and bowed before the Zen Master.
“And here open the gates of heaven,” Hakuin stated, just as calmly.
Yes, on Nots and telling a Zen story, fancy that… 🙂 And I have many more. Because wisdom is wisdom and that’s all that matters. When you loose that, and go for empty labels, watch the gate of Hell open.
And Odd, you are so right, not only Dror and RCS not the same, they are true opposites!
Hemi 🙂
Thank you Hemi — love your story. Very apropos.Wisdom comes in many forms from many sources. Some of the wisest things I’ve ever heard came from my children. There is nothing like having your two year-old put you firmly in place with irrefutable logic and compassion. Talk about a reality adjustment 🙂
Odd
What Odd Thomas said. (beautiful post Odd)
🙂
Beautifully, explained, Odd Thomas. Thank you.
Odd Thomas, loved your comment. So true and it needed to be said.
Odd Thomas, the big difference is it wasn’t Jesus who was instructing the nuns to be violent. BTW, I had us also. What a trip! Some where beautiful beings and some old nasty hags.
There needs to be a Scientology subject trash collection. It needs to be made public by Indies who feel the need to further this subject. It needs to be confessed as dangerous and they need to promise never to create what Ron and DM have created.
Brian, that’s an awful lot of “there needs, you need & it needs…” you’re relying on. Sounds a bit cultish to me. There comes a point in life you simply have to let the kids go and face the big bad world on their own judgement.
Whatever you think of Hubbard & his tech, he was right about one thing – one ways flows are just that and they get stuck.
If the person in the passenger’s seat closes their eyes, does the car crash? Get & give a little life please.
“I yawn a lot” in Scientologies is meant to be representive of misunderstoods. And being true to your moniker you have proved your appreciation for the label.
You do not get the essence of my views “I Yawn A Lot.” Look at both sides. It has, up to this point, considered by Ron a High Crime to be critical. Make the leap. Allow your DISCRIMIATING INTELLIGENCE to differenciate, the good from the bad.
I agree Brian.
It would be very hard for me to trust an organization ,however small , if the mistakes of the past that stemmed from the tech, all three of them, have not been recognized and acknowledged.
Now when the organization is led by two wonderful people, such as Dani and Tamy, I believe mistakes are unlikely to be repeated because of the sheer goodness and sincerity they display , but I am still very much aware of the slippery slope.
And it is true , Jesus didn’t advocate retribution and violence.
“And it is true, Jesus didn’t advocate retribution and violence.”
From the Bible, Thessalonians 2 Chapter 1 verses 7,8 and 9.
“7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.”
“8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ;
“9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
The Dror Center may be simply wonderful. Just like the Geltman Mission I was part of in Manhattan. We had fun, people were friendly, I learned the love of words, became expert with a dictionary, cleared up my relationship with my mom because of the Communication Course.
I was taken off course to audit difficult cases. I loved it.
Here is my point:
Aside from the learning and development of good qualities, there is in the subject also dangerous craziness. And that dangerous craziness is, to some degree, masked by the positive.
A person says,”this stuff is great. I went exterior and realized I am a soul. I have new friends” etc etc etc.
Then you read “there is not hope for man than Sciwntology”, “all other spititual paths are implants,” destroy your enemies”, Jesus was a pedophile,” Ron is Metreya or Buddha, “hate above sympathy on the tone scale,” the zenith of spiritual tech is auditing space aliens”, Simon Bolivar teaching that a lapse in judgement in protecting power is to not murder,” creation of B1″, “the utter hate and evil intention towards critics and orchestrated by Ron,” the mind fuck of What is Greatness and Destroy Utterly” etc etc
Dror Center may be a God send to Indies.
BUT UNLESS THE EVIL THAT IS ALSO IN WRITING, IS NOT ISOLATED AND SENT INTO QUARINTINE, GATHERED TOGETHER AND MADE PUBLIC, THEN ANNOUNCED AS NO MORE, FINI, OVER………………….
WHAT IS TO STOP THE NEXT FUCKING MADMAN FROM RECREATING RON’s “ONLY WAY” “MAN’s ONLY HOPE” FROM BEING A PARIAH IN OUR CIVIL SOCIETY.
THE BLUE PRINT FOR TYRANNY IS IN RON’s MIND AND WRITINGS.
WHINING ABOUT CRITICS WHO POINT OUT THESE DANGERS JUST ENFORCES THE PUBLICS VIEW THAT THIS IS A DANGEROUS CULT.
WHEN YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR A CHECK UP AND HE TELLS YOU YOU HAVE LIVER PEOBLEMS, YOU DO NOT THEN START TELLING HIM HOW YOUR EYES, EARS, LUNGS AND HEART ARE DOING FINE – DOCTOR DON’T BE SO NEGATIVE!
There needs to be a purge of the subject. Being a Ron apologist at this point will only hurt the good points of Freudian Therapy in Scientology.
Be brave, allow youself to be critical. Be reasonable and have an open mind.
ISOLATE THE EVIL, DANGEROUS TECH THAT CAME FROM RON’s OWN CASE. FROM HIS DISTASTE FOR “WOG MORALITY.”
Brian you are right.
Now can we please get back to all the good news and Dror validations? Heavens above, it was probibably the most refreshing experience Ive had this life time reading this blog! Akin to eating boarding school slop for years then been given crispy potatoes, lamb shank and roasted veggies to feast upon!! YUM!!
Not to say I dont appreciate the incredible
reporting and documenting of RCS implosions ( I REALLY DO) but this article spreads the love and most importantly rekindles something rather precious – HOPE!
Dani and Tami you guys rock!
Mike you are a hero, albeit a reluctant one!
Thanks to all brave souls who fight the good fight. Its seen and appreciated. We are actually winning – about time! 🙂
Sheeplebane, you rock too… 🙂
And you are quite RIGHT. And Brian, you are right.
And getting back to this blog’s issue, Dror, here’s a little example of what’s going on there, and of another guy who came out RIGHT after a day’s service there. It speaks for itself. And for Dror:
Win Nots 2014
I arrived today very “noisy” full of issues, good bad, ugly, but uncontrolled and hectic. Too much. Auditor cheered me up, smiling. We set to work, step by step slowly at first, quicker later, but always professional and positive. And with results!
In the end of the day, I felt really good. Yet another angle of good, another layer of goodness. A different taste.
What a tasty level, this Nots! Endless dishes and menus, some fantastic, some hard to digest (oh yes..!), some piece of cake….but all of them life shaking, life changing. And mood and tone altering, oh…BIG time!
I started slow and half blind, then got better, and better. And then I was doing difficult, ellusive things correctly and more and more RIGHT! Oh, the team work: at times fantastic and vital guidance by my auditor. At times I guide, and auditor follows, without interrupting, almost solo…but all really bingo and successful! Totally self-determined cooperation. End of the day…bliss.
And there’s the core of my great feeling today:
The wins come from working on the case, blowing charge in loads. But under all that, and below the ability to do it and do it so well, lies a wonderful carpet, a flying carpet, a powerful tool to work with: Being RIGHT. I get in this place the feeling that I am right. Always. In session I get it in such loads from my auditor that it helps overcome anything! I realized today how absolutely vital this attitude is!
I know today that this angelic, theta beingness by my auditor is the most powerful help there is. It is priceless!
Tami, thank you so much for making me right, and holding it in place no matter what. This is the real thing, the life provider. It is!
My universe is full of wrong things. That’s why I work so hard to fix it. And I can confront them all in time and make them right. But only by learning and adopting that example you give. And that everybody here at Dror gives. That I am right!
This is the big secret, the key element in getting all the countless wins I had so far. And perhaps the biggest win of them all.
Thank you for making me RIGHT. Yes, even when I totally forget it myself!!
Here’s to you and to all the rest of the freedom (Dror) gang! Cheers!
and much, much love,
Hemi
Reply
Hemi, this is such a moving post! And aesthetic! You represent Dror very well. Both you and Dror have proven that theta is contagious – this is one of the most theta blog threads I have seen anywhere. Thank you! <3
Just a heads up for on lookers, Not’s is the auditing of space aliens, BTs or body thetans attached to the body from the OT 3 Xenu materials.
At the end of L Ron Hunbards life he was wanting to electricute himself to rid himself of BTs. He was even asking a man named Sarge to go around the ranch looking for BTs.
This is in Marty’s book Memoirs of a Scoentology Warrior.
These materials,Not’s, ascribe personal problems to space brings attached to your body.
I am judging no one. I am only stating facts.
Brian, even assuming LRH expressed the techniques of NOTs in terms of his own case, it doesn’t take away from the fact that people make huge gains through those techniques. It’s quite a stretch to consider that this is all just coincidence.
I think you are the one who needs to “look” – at the fact that you are not helping people by trying to get them to focus on the negative so as to scare them away.
The question Marildi is what is causing the needle to read?
[EDITED]
IF YOU GUYS WANT TO CONTINUE YOUR BACK AND FORTH I WILL BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE EACH OF YOU THE OTHERS’ EMAIL ADDRESS. THIS IS JUST GOING ON TOO LONG NOW. MIKE
Thank you Mike. You are more than generous with me.
^^^^ this! If the mormons can do it, why can’t scientologists?
You got one thing right… “Ron was a flawed man.” I totally respect your position and would ask the same of you,
Personally; with so many other great choices for personal betterment in the world, I choose not to subscribe to one where its followers feel they need to defend the degraded individual that “lied it into existence”.
Beautiful statement, Odd Thomas. You said it very, very well.
The Simon Bolivar policy was NOT the tech. And as far as I can see, the only one who has truly applied that “policy” is Dinky Davey Dingbat. When I was in, I simply ignored it and went on helping others and getting help. No one ever took me to task for it, I was never sec checked on it and never saw any of the execs I worked with applying it.
Thegman- It was always called “ethics tech”,”admin tech” and “auditing tech”. All three of these subjects were called tech. That is, technology. Something to be done in a ordered way. All three of these subjects were in writing. All three of these subjects were studied, demoed, drilled, word cleared and checked out. And called tech.
I find it disingenuous at this point to separate and draw a distinction. Too convenient because of the evil done in it’s name and not wanting to associate ‘standard auditing’ with standard 3rd dynamic tech.
All of it was given the same level of assumed scientism.
Brian,
Apparently the admin tech didn’t work as well as the auditing tech. I say this because LRH admin tech of “checks and balances” etc… to prevent an SP like Miscavige from taking over and becoming a sadistic dictator, lasted about 15 minutes. Puff. Gone. The only admin tech left is Miscavige’s hell hole. But, auditing continues all over the place.
I suspect that what works (mostly tech, not admin) has a decent place in history. That which does not work (tech or admin) will fade away into obscurity, like the Co$ organization…
Brian, there are various elements and compounds that are poisonous and there are others that are helpful to life. It’s all part of the “technology” of chemistry.
I don’t know what “disengenuous” means. The closest thing that I can find to it is disingenuous, but I have tried in different ways to make sense of what you are saying with the meaning of that in mind, and I don’t go anywhere.
But certainly it does make good sense to draw distinctions between the various chemicals instead of just lumping it together in one pile and calling it “good” or “bad”. It’s neither good or bad; it’s successfully administered or it is not, or used towards a beneficial end, or not.
Another analogy: there are certainly lots of hospitals where good medicine is practiced under poor, perhaps even malicious administration. Perhaps even in the policies of these hospitals there are things said that support those malicious practices, so, in a way, for that hospital, they are all part of the technology of medicine. Someone dies in that hospital due to the consequences of that bad administration. I don’t know, but I imagine something like that is happening in some hospital, somewhere, every day.
A mourning mother, and perhaps all the family and friends might now become convinced, that “medicine is bad”. Perhaps a whole community might be influenced to think so, by a sensationalist press. But that’s all very lazy thinking and is part and parcel to mob thinking.
It’s pretty much the same thing with Scientology. I personally feel there are a few aspects of the technology that have some curveballs in them; if I were given a menu of Scientology to pick and choose, I’d leave alone various items (I think the one where I’d find most agreement here is with the use of confessional auditing as a means of control, but there are others). But I think that the great majority of Scientology auditing procedures are benign; even beneficial.
As far as the administration of Scientology though, that’s a different story. I have known org life since 1971. I have acquaintance with missions since 1968. Back in those days, the policy towards missions was basically, “Do what you like, just send the franchise office 10%.” I have been acquainted with some of the most successful missions since that time. When they prospered, they prospered due to very high ARC and purposes that were kept shining bright. (In recent years there’s been a lot more control over missions and that self-determined aspect is no longer there.)
In orgs however, it’s always been a different story. Until the early 80’s when Int Management began to meddle in mission actions, missions always did better than orgs at getting new people in, with very few exceptions.
It has always been the intention for the orgs to follow orders and programs, and to only follow orders and programs. If any initiative were to ever be exhibited it had better be in alignment with a program, or you would get bopped on the head or in the groin. Orgs have been told always that they are successful to the degree that they follow Flag programs, and I think that actually may have happened once with a Class IV/V org, but I don’t think it was more than once, and I think that was a very long time ago.
The few orgs that ever did really prosper for any real length of time prospered in spite of Flag programs and because they somehow managed to attract one or more execs with enough love for the tech and for people that they managed to get people getting wins in spite of these micro-managed, poorly thought out programs.
Why this long rant? To point this out: people are smart enough to distinguish between good and bad, useful and harmful, and the Dror Organization is an excellent example of this. Dani and Tami aren’t being forced by Flag to follow their malicious, emergency-drive, punishment-drive short-sighted programs. They are free to sift and choose what parts of Scientology to implement and what to leave alone. And I’ll bet that Dror is not alone in that.
What they are doing is true with all the various Independent groups. I doubt if there is any member of any Indie group at this moment suffering in a lower condition assignment as a punishment, or nursing his or heart from a “severe reality adjustment”. I don’t think that there’s anyone licking the floor of any bathroom, anyone soaked in a garbage can with a sign around her saying “I am a lesbian”, or an Introspection Rundown being run robotically and to harm. I don’t think there’s any “pink legs” anywhere in the Independent Field, simply because the Independent Field is just that: Independent! Given the choice of taking or leaving any part of Scientology, they leave the toxic morbid stuff alone.
Brian.. You are speaking for many .. Thank you.
I agree. To me the whole Bolivar story was a parable. A story within a story about supporting those that ultimately support you. It was also a cautionary tale, that told me, watch your back, even when there are others watching it for you. To trust in the goodness of people, one cannot ignore the frailties that exist side by side with their strengths. Maybe Ron had a bit of fun writing it, but it certainly created a great deal of heartache later on that I believe was avoidable.
Kind of like your kid bringing in a loaded .45 for show and tell.
Odd
Odd Thomas, where does LRH say it is a parable? If it’s not in writing it’s not true. You are giving a hidden data line and verbal data.
Let’s say he was making a parable, he is making a parable with concepts of murder.
How is that less comforting?
Odd Thomas was referring to Bolivar
Did you never do The Key to Life course?
Obviously I can not speak for Dani, only for myself. I would say that, in order to escape that whole indoctrination that one must follow and apply ALL of Scientology, even its often bizarre admin and “ethics” information, you’d have to have as a more firm stable datum, “what is true is what you have observed to be true”. Boost yourself up to 3.5 or above and ask yourself that question of the various rather looney admin and “ethics” data that has hobbled the growth of Scientology organizations since time immemorial.
Brian, if you ever were personally involved, you know it would not take long for you to write up a list of things in Scientology you’d rather not have to be a part of. Let’s see: disconnection as policy, the “you’re going to live in an everlasting hell if you don’t take our road out” view, disparagement of non-Scientologists, various ethics policies (shoot first, ask questions later, Ethics Review PL, the disparaging view of Man in “Alter-is and Degraded Beings); the consistent, cast-in-titanium culture of management that they just simply are never wrong, and will never admit to an error in judgement; have I named them all?
All the things that people who have been in object to in Scientology are those sort of low-toned views and activities. It would not take long to weed all these out of Scientology and use the other, more life-giving policies (that also exist but are less emphasized) to bring about an administration that was based more on the ideals and practices given in Ron’s 1951 “Essay on Management”. I’m getting the idea that’s what’s happening at Dror’s. ARC and vital purposes are propelling this group forward; not the “emergency drive” measures that have been keeping staff and public in fight or flight mode for the last thirty years…
Dan, spot on. It seems to me that Ron had at least two lives here. The first being the philosopher, who put down some fascinating and usable information. The second, the leader; someone who lost sight of his own teachings, as he struggled for acceptance. A Western flaw? Or just the by-product of an ego that tore apart his own “child” in an effect to make it famous. There’s got to be a lesson to learn somewhere in all of this.
Odd
Robots and programming = your viewpoint.
I’ve been a corporal in the military and you HAVE TO be able to “think” with your training if you’re going to function as a unit and survive. That goes for the work-a-day world too imho.
Original Ron’s religion? What is it your trying to say – It’s all Smith & Wesson’s fault for murder?
Give it a rest Brian.
This is meant to be a rely under “Brian says…” this pgm jumps around a bit when you hit the reply button sometimes.
I am trying to say look. Look at that part of the subject that has led to this moment.
I will not rest. I may be asked to not post anymore. But I believe it is important to be a voice of dissent. A willing piñata if you will. To speak truth to power. As you feel you are doing.
I hear you Brian. What makes you assume I or most of the people posting or reading this blog haven’t looked? To understand most of the stuff spoken here and its definitions and practice it takes some looking. Plus to be anywhere near being an independent after over 30 years of church corruption, well… that’s a lot of looking and tough skin developed.
Truth has limited use if it’s constantly negative.
LOL! Brian. You’ve just stamped your foot down again, refusing to see the many other points of view on the subject. Spend your time on Tony’s blog where you’ll get all the agreement, much of it from never ins like yourself, you could ever ask for. You’re unlikely to find it here where most have looked at all sides of things and have actual reality on what they’re talking about. You come across as an angry child, constantly complaining about that which you’ve never experienced. You can go on posting here for as long as Mike permits (it *is* his house, you know), but your unlikely to have much effect.
Thank you Thegman77. Yes, there are other blog sites more appropriate for Brian.
Hi, Brian.
It looks like you are concerned about some LRH references which sound like violent.
I’m a public Scientologist and this is only my personal view point and opinion.
1. Talking about “Simon Bolivar” , I remember someone said somewhere that the reference was not originally written as church POLICY by LRH but as an essay or something like that line. Somebody put it as church policy. I don’t remember exactly who said that where, sorry. I might be wrong. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
But if that data is true, then it should not be regarded as a church PL. Policy is basically agreement. An essay is just essay, you should not take it as a group agreement.
2. Even if the “Simon Bolivar” was written by LRH really as a church PL, we should not take such a violent description literally as “agreement”. It is just an expression to make the concept clear, I think.
By the way, I’m an “international human rights law” advocator. I studied it at college and submitted my thesis for the graduation. Unfortunately it was written in Japanese , so you can’t read it. And I’m too busy to translate it into English. If you read it then you will understand my stand about human rights.
Anyway I don’t like anything which violates the law. Probably you will agree on this point.
Any violent activity or illegal activity must not happen again in the church or any Scientology field.
It is just a common sense for all of us, I guess.
And just in case you are interested in my stand about leadership of Scientology, then go and read http://www.savescientology.com/. I am a supporter of this project from the inception and actually I expressed my support for it in my comment on the blog.
Honestly I don’t like to discuss about such subject publicly. So forgive me if I don’t comment any more on the subject here.
At this moment, we are in the battle against the suppression. This is a public forum.
Any soldier or commander or captain of military force would not discuss about anything in front of their enemy.
Awesome.
It let’s ME understand…. Sorry… I’m lying in bed with my cats. You’re the first place I check in the morning. Thanks for your amazing blog.
Thank you for this. It let’s understand why I reached for Scientology in the first place and why I was such an avid supporter of it.
The reason why the Church of $cientology is collapsing is that Dror is the exception rather than the rule and Dror couldn’t function within this $ system. Could you imagine if instead of the morge program you had 300 missions/orgs run along the same lines as Dror? Less money, no outragious claims, but more happy and fulfilled people with lawsuits generally a thing of the past. Unfortunately L. Ron and DM created a far different top down rigid command and control structure.
I wish these people the best in Israel even though I am not a Scientologist.
There WAS such a mission system. Miscavige destroyed it. It’s never recovered under is wing (read claw!).
I totally agree thegman
Many, many people witnessed the mission network destruction 30+ years ago, but very few, if any, understood the source of the obliteration of the mission network. It WAS Miscavige.
Today the “who” (Miscavige) is documented as the SP, but so many people from those early days became disillusioned and are now gone. They found the wrong “who”or the wrong “why” because was no or little information available.
Today it is different. It is obvious that it was Miscavige the SP because he has singl- handedly destroyed ANYTHING good about Scientology and converted it into his own personal shrinking, money grabbing abomination…
Robert,
while it is obvious that DM is dramatizing suppressive activities I did not accept this as a Why because this fact was not within my sphere of control. Looking at it from this point of view I rather found a situation of “accepting – often on a gradient – things or ideas as ‘Scientology’ that were strange, off beat, silly or destructive”. And found as my personal Why “a desire to be in ARC without really looking for tone level or what it was that I desired to be in ARC with” (basically a result of invalidation or overwhelm).
This discovery lead to an easy handling: I stopped agreening with all such “new ideas” of DM. And that opened the view to things I could do.
What is demonstrated by the wonderful people who create the Dror Centre is that something can be done about it. For that they have my full admiration.
The Dror Center sounds like it is doing good work. And yet there is the LRH picture on the wall. For indies to survive (imho) they have to break from the founder and use the tech while not admiring the man. A very narrow bridge.
Hi Eileen, thank you for your compliment. On the second part, I would have to disagree. You can not hide who the source of the Tech is. It’s like hiding your origin or nationality. Yes, the Church has spoiled completely the good name of Scientology and LRH. But it is our task to make it good again. And it’s actually can be done. Dani and Tami have appeared on the national TV in Israel, 18 min, prime time. And the message went through clear: there is the great Tech of LRH and there is the corrupted Church. You can have a look at the recording here: http://scnil.org/english/2014/12/13/scientology-on-israels-channel-10/ .
ML, Aviv
Astounding 18 minute video, Aviv!
I venture a guess that many of these folks have had Jewish ancestors (their names seem Jewish.) I truly hope and pray that they research their families’ faith before continuing with Scientology. Sorry, but the actions of the Jewish beliefs are truly actions that help the world for so many hundreds of years.
Thank you, Dani. A wonderful interview. Lots of great things to come in the future!
Mike, thanks for posting this. Good to see the positive things that are happening in Scientology: “There is more auditing occurring now outside the Church than within it. LRH Tech is producing miracles daily, that is the most important story and it should be told.”
Great to see its not all skulls n bones and good news for those who would still like to give Scn a go without the Gestapo thought police breathing down ones neck!
I think the Dror centre are the most casual about showing how they are not afraid to promote themselves despite any church onslaught. That displays guts!
I think many other indie groups may step out of the shadows now with Dror paving the way. Good on you Dror!
Scientology can be cheap, workable and fun again. OSA Im afraid you have simply lost. Any division you can sow now will be temporary. Just make sure that when you finally decide to defect, bring some hot evidence to put the maize cob in the slammer, else you may not be welcome in the free breeze as you would like.
Thanks for the update Mike. HBO documentary, Dror successes and many nails in RCS coffins makes my day!
Thank you MIke for this story on the Dror Center and Dani Lerberger. Dani is one of the most wonderful, caring individuals I have every known. If the Church of Scientology would learn from Dani and operate like he does (actually having compassion and helping everyone) by providing excellent auditing and training, the Church would be expanding around the world.
Good for you Dani – it’s nice to see something resembling the Scientology I got into back in the day.
Hope things went well at the deps.
Congratulations Dani – I’m so proud of you! I think what you are doing is fantastic. Sara and I look forward to meeting with you and Tami later this year, either in Israel or here in America. Also, please give my best to Aviv – he trained at Tampa Org when I was on staff auditing there.
No matter what I have expressed on this blog re: the church, or even on occassion, LRon – I still think auditing is very valuable. It has helped me considerably. I’ve seen it help many, many others.
Wrong login – This is Sheldon Goldberg
Hi Sheldon, I suppose. Best regards to you to:) Yes! I agree, auditing is very valuable because it works! We at Dror, audit people that never heard of the Church or even LRH before, and it works just fine:)
Hot damn! Sounds like the kind of auditing and results I got before leaving 30+ years ago! Wow! Good on DROR!
Thanks!
“LRH Tech is producing miracles daily, that is the most important story and it should be told.” Very true, let’s not forget the other side of the story.
Mike — are they still delivering — you posted Dror’s article from 2013 — I’m assuming they are still delivering. I might have someone who will come from the US for auditing.
Based on your recommendation. And yes … scientology can help people … just not fundamentalist scientology … 🙂
Windhorse
Hi there! This is the second article from 2014. Yes, we are surely delivering and you are welcome to send people for auditing and training. Thanks!
Aviv, Dror’s staff.
Great — please ask Mike Rinder for my private email so that I can connect you off the blogs with my friend …
Thank you
And this could possibly be three PCs — 2 from the US and one from Germany who speaks English
Dear Aviv, please let me know which languages are your auditors using for OTlevels sessions. Thanks.
Thank you so much, windhorse. I will surely ask Mike for your email. You can reach me at aviv@drorcenter.com if you want.
ML,
Aviv
Windhorse, Aviv has a typo. It should be aviv@drorcenter.co.il.
Norman, Dror’s delivery is in English Russian anbHebrew.
Dear WIndhorse,
You can click ON their stat-graph above, and it will enlarge so you can read their 24 consecutive monthly stats—from January 2013 through December 2014.
The stat numbers on the graph show “…number of people who received services at Dror in December [2014], who have paid…were on course or on auditing.”
ML, 1.1