We have another real treat this week, Leah and I talk with Ray Jeffrey.
I will add the episode here as soon as it is available.
As most of you who come here know, Ray was the lawyer who took on representing Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne when they were sued by scientology for allegedly breaching their agreement not to speak out about their experiences in scientology. It was a huge ask as scientology had filed requesting a Temporary Restraining Order on an expedited hearing schedule, and of course they had lined up a small army of lawyers. They were impossible odds.
By happenstance, Ray had recently read Rollling Stone reporter Janet Reitman’s book, Inside Scientology, before we connected with him to see if he would be willing to help Debbie. He took on the job and did it like he does everything — thoroughly, carefully and professionally. We could not have asked for a better lawyer.
The suit they filed turned out to be a disaster for scientology when Ray put Debbie on the stand to testify as to her experiences in the Hole and otherwise with David Miscavige and the top of the scientology hierarchy.
There was massive media coverage at the time — not just in the Tampa Bay Times, but on local and national TV, if you Google Debbie Cook you will find a ton of it.
Seeing the writing on the wall, scientology quickly withdrew and the case was settled. It was a huge win.
I subsequently wrote on my blog here about the case and its outcome, addressing some of the naysayers and armchair critics who had never been engaged in litigation against scientology.
Ray also represented two Private Investigators, Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold who had been employed by scientology for 25 years surveiling Pat Broeker (and subsequently me).
Marty Rathbun had originally hired these PI’s, and they visited Marty with Ray before filing their lawsuit. Tony Ortega wrote about this at the time.
Shortly after the suit was filed, scientology settled it. This time there was no damaging testimony in the court room.
But most famously, Ray also represented Monique Rathbun in her lawsuit against David Miscavige, Religious Technology Center, Church of Scientology International and a number of individuals and Private Investigators following the infamous “Squirrel Busters” Fair Game saga that had played out against the Rathbun’s.
The suit was filed on behalf of Monique Rathbun on 16 August 2013: Monique Rathbun Complaint
The case was very successful — the Judge granted a Temporary Restraining Order (ironically what scientology had unsuccessfully sought against Debbie Cook).
Scientology brought in an army of lawyers and tried every trick in the book, from moving to disqualify the attorneys to claiming David Miscavige had nothing to do with anything. They also filed an “Anti-SLAPP” motion — which is a law enacted in many states to prevent large corporations from squashing individual’s constitutionally protected rights through lawsuits. Of course, scientology turned this law on its head and claimed THEY were the victims and had been wrongly sued for conducted their protected “religious” activity of Fair Game.
The court did not see it their way — not at all.
Order and Findings of Fact on Anti-Slapp Mtns
Scientology, of course, appealed that decision and the Texas Court of Appeals also had a different interpretation of the facts and the law than scientology:
Appeals Court Opinion on Anti-Slapp motion
Following the Appeals Court decision, scientology asked the Texas Supreme Court to overturn the two lower court decisions.
While the matter was pending before the Texas Supreme Court, Monique Rathbun fired her lawyers and dismissed the lawsuit, dissolving the protections put in place by the court when the TRO was issued.
It came as a complete surprise to everyone.
Soon thereafter the Rathbun’s purchased a new home:
And subsequently Marty Rathbun became scientology’s main spokesman against Leah Remini, me and Tony Ortega (with a few other select targets thrown in from time to time).
That was another excellent episode. Thank you so much! I vividly remember when Marty started his blog. It was so helpful to me even though I had been out since 1984. I closely followed both the Debbie Cook suit as well as Monique’s. Then my mind was blown as Marty began to betray us all with the garbage he began to write. Thank goodness for people like you, Leah and Ray Jeffries. This podcast was very informative and helped pull it all together.
I just wanted to say I really enjoy the podcast. Not only is it informative but it’s great entertainment and you can hear the love between Leah and Mike.
As a European I dont see the same hold scientology has in my own country but I know there is a centre of 2 here. They target the vulnerable and young through free activities and free school supplies and teaching supplies.
I wanted to get in contact with you to see what someone like me, who is outside but concerned could do . But your podcast has inspired me. I will be sending the info from this blog and podcast to the local government representatives so they can see what could possibly happen if scientology is left to get a food hold. I’m not a good writer so it would be great if someone who is could post a general letter/ email that everyone could use to make sure our government is aware of the issue and to shoe that scientology may say they have big numbers but the really majority will no longer be quiet about them.
Thanks again I alway look forward to the next podcast.
I’ve got another question: I read today on a not sure, like a reddit site. Someone ask if David Miscavige used Scientology money to bail (bond) out one of his relatives. Someone else said that Scientology can not do that because it is against there IRS non-profit status, Is that true? Does anyone know the answer. If it is true, wouldn’t paying a lawyer for a non scientologist also be illegal?
Mary Kahn, I think you’re absolutely right in your assumptions re Marty and what went down. What a Judas.
Everything lined up for Monique and Marty to get a handsome judgement from $ci. DM would have had to pay a pretty Penny to get them to turn their back on Ray Jeffrey and the friends who helped them. DM must have taken great pleasure in having the Rathbuns Fire Ray and shaft him. They betrayed so many. Besides buying a house the Rathbuns also started a dubious pastry business that is open for limited hours. I would be very surprised if it is profitable.
Talk about tax exemption, the freakin cherch paid those two detectives $10 million each over a 20 year period to follow Pat Broeker. Unbelievable.
Gordon,
I never even thought about that. But if Ray was working on a “contingency bases”, then he would not have gotten paid at all for all the work he did on that case and I suspect he must have done the equivalent of thousands and thousands of dollars worth of work and he would have also had thousands and thousands of dollars worth of expenses. It really infuriates me to think of that. But I suppose that without knowing any of the facts for certain, it is wrong for me to even voice those kinds of suspicions. But Ray did say he was working on a contingency basis and that means he doesn’t get any money until the case is over.
If this is true, I suspect Marty is very lucky that Ray is the kind of principled human being he is. Otherwise I would think that he might have …. I better stop talking now. Damn it!
Skyler,
Ray said that when he attempted to depose the Rathbuns and the legal response was from one the $ci legal team he knew financially it wouldn’t be worth perusing.
Another great episode. Leah and Mike you are making history every week!
Each podcast gives tons of important informations. Thank you.
This was really a great podcast.
Full of educational material.
It answered questions so many have asked questions about.
I am bookmarking this one for fast access to link !
Ray Jeffrey court demeanor = Excellent.
See his opening questions with Debbie Cook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg6X1VPgApo
Just my opinion, by reading and viewing I think the case being dropped in the end was all David Miscavige’s idea. I think his goal was to have the lawyer for Rathbun never work another scientology case again. I don’t know what D.M. said or did to Marty, but his goal was to make sure that he would never be able to hire another lawyer in Texas. Having Marty spit out 80 to 100 video’s against people Marty felt where his friends is or was to take away what was left of Marty’s self worth. It’s amazing that Miscavige can’t figure out why this keeps backfiring on him. Marty is a likable guy. He has a powerful likable presence. He is a mans man and a women’s man. Miscavige powerful presence is nothing bigger than a cub scout at best. He is not liked by man or women.
Barbara said, “He is not liked by man or women.”
I think you forgot about the dogs and cats and all other pets. Have you ever seen that monster photographed with a pet? My guess is that animals have an innate sense of evil and they hate him more than people do.
Skyler, back in the early 90s you had to walk past a bunch of beagles in transit cages to get into his conference room in the Middle Villas. Those little transit cages for air travel where the animal can’t even turn around.
If the beagles didn’t like you, Trouble. I guess they were used to Dave. These are the beagles that some people report that they were told to salute.
I get the impression these poor animals were in the cages most of the time, though once in a while you would see them out and around.
Marc Headley said something about a German Shephard at the Int Base, don’t really remember that. Apparently it was vicious and hurt another dog or something? Sounds like a dog only Dave could love, but you’ll have to ask Marc about it.
Honestly I never saw him actually pet or walk one of the beagles, maybe he left all that to Shelly or someone. He had people for that, as the Hollywood types like to say.
Late 80s, there was a cage full of birds outside his bedroom in the Lower Villas. Something like 6’x4’x4′, lots of birds in there. Whenever you hear the birds in the background on a Karen de la Carriere interview I think of those poor little tweeters.
I don’t know if it was because Dave or Shelly liked the birds, or just as an early warning system for prowlers.
The other famous story is about the time he was out scuba diving at Bonaire and photographed a shark. We all got to hear about that one, saw the slide show with Jaws music etc. ad nauseum. But was the shark a pet, a chance-met colleague or just Miscavige’s spirit animal?
Bruce,
People had to salute the beagles? That is too funny – and yet, it is a symptom of a crazed mind.
I suppose one reason he would keep dogs in cages is that he could be fairly certain they would be the only creatures who would never think of talking back to him or of trying to attack him.
I think there is a good chance he is slowly but surely growing more and more crazy. It wouldn’t surprise me if we will shortly witness him losing his mind in total – kind of like Al Pacino in Scarface (1983).
Bruce? I didn’t recognize you when I first saw some of your posts a few days ago. But you have written some of the best posts I’ve ever read on this blog or anywhere else for that matter.
I would like to salute you as a real expert – Mike Rinder actually called you that – high praise indeed!.
I look forward to learning more by reading more of your posts. Best wishes to you, Bruce.
He kept his beagles in small cages…somehow I had the idea that as cruel as he was to the underlings in his power, that he – somehow, he was kind to his dogs. I don’t know why I assumed that. Hitler it was said, was kind to his dogs. So somehow I thought that Miscavige would be too. And now that assumption has been blown. Dogs in small cages…OMG…and beagles too. They are outdoor dogs. They have to run, a lot. I love beagles. I’d better stop now. Kind of tired and not making much sense with this verbal rambling. So now I know that he’s thoroughly, completely bad. I’m still processing this. Good night.
“I get the impression these poor animals were in the cages most of the time, though once in a while you would see them out and around. ”
This also describes the life of a member of the See Ogre.
Yo Dave,
Who or what would bite the hand that feeds you good buddy?
Long answer: $cientologist in good standing
Short answer: YOU
Ya gotta wonder what dear Dave has over Marty that would cause him to collapse after all the work he did to expose the underbelly of the cult.
Maybe money but probably not. Something more sinister I think. Maybe things Marty did to others that would be exposed?
I think you’re right. He had some kind of leverage on him, I think.
Mike and Leah,
Just listened to Episode 10 and am constantly amazed at your courage & strength. I am grateful for your perseverance, as I’m sure many are.
I had a cousin lose everything after joining Scientology. The last time I saw him I was a teenager. He had lost his home and family and was working in the kitchen at a facility (no idea where, it was all new to me). He came to visit, but it was really an attempt to recruit/get money/sell books. I remember my date talking with him before we left. He was asking him all sorts of questions. I just wanted to go because I got a real creepy vibe from him, sounded like a cult. Anyway, the last thing I remember was that my date was pushing my cousin about the belief system and being in complete control of your mind and body. My date’s final question was “So basically what you’re saying is that if I were working in my garden, had a bush or tree to plant, but forgot my shovel, and I thought ‘I wish my hand was a bear claw so I could dig a hole for this plant’ that I could literally turn my hand into a bear claw?” And my cousin said “Yes, absolutely”. My date said “Ok, just wanted to clarify that. Good luck with that.” And off we went. My one and only ‘exposure’ to Scientology, thank god.
If you two are seriously considering moving, WA State, well, Western Washington, would welcome you with open arms.
As a former NYer, I can tell you no one messes with the people I care about. Also, Scientology ain’t got nothing on me when it comes to the IRS. I won a battle with them over back taxes in the 80,s (I made an honest mistake even with help over the phone with IRS agents) when I was a student and working as a nanny. Even though I filed every year and they knew where I worked and lived and was in the phone book, they waited until the fines, penalties and fees were at the max, just before they couldn’t demand them anymore, to send me a bill for several thousand dollars. I still had all my original paperwork with the names and numbers of the agents I spoke to and several corrected tax forms. I got the amount owed down to the original amount – maybe $5 – $10 and then got that waived for all the stress and time and my phone bill – no lawyers, just me on the phone going up the chain until I got to a person who had the authority to make that decision. Yeah, I’m a LI girl, it’s what we do.
So move here. We don’t suck. Unless you’re a bully. Then all bets are off.
Hugs!
Greetings Jillian,
I can certainly attest to the fact that Washington State is a wonderful place to live. I had always hoped to retire there. But that is a whole other story.
When you say that you are a “LI girl”. Does that mean Long Island? I ask because you seem to have a temperament just like Leah’s. I sure do wish there were more of you in this world.
What’s stopping you? Make it happen! I moved here with a couple thousand dollars and a place to stay in 1999. I love it here.
Yes! I’m a Long Island girl. Born and raised in Rollingwood, blocks away from the Walt Whitman House, Walt Whitman HS, Jayne’s Hill (now West Hills Park – the highest point on LI) and the Walt Whitman Mall. LI girls are definitely an acquired taste. We are full of moxie, strong willed and fearless when we feel our cause/belief is a righteous one. You always know where you stand with a LI girl.
Jillian,
Unfortunately, the truth is that I am not a US citizen. I live north of the USA in the land of ice and show. I had always dreamed of marrying a US lady because then I could share my socialized medicine with her (meaning she would get a so-called “Health Card” which would entitle her to free medical treatment and I would get US citizenship which would entitle me to move to the USA.
I have travelled extensively up and down the west coast and I loved it all. I thought San Diego was modelled after heaven itself.
But now? Now our medical treatment has gotten all shot to Hell. I wouldn’t help my worst enemy get medical here because it has become just unbelievably bad now.
Also with what has been going on in California and Portland, Oregon, that just leaves Washington State for me. I cannot describe the beauty and majesty that comes with living on the Pacific Ocean. People have to experience that to believe it.
I better stop writing now. If I continue, I may get very negative about our future with COVID and all. But I really appreciate your kind words and I would love to see more of you here on this blog.
Best wishes to you.
Well dang it. I’ve always been envious of people who have that health card.
It’s always darkest before the dawn.
I have to believe in karma, for all evildoers…
O/T. Screen Rant: The Boys Season 2 Mocks Tom Cruise With The Deep
Did you catch The Boys’ satirical takedown of the controversial Church of Scientology that casts The Deep as its most vocal proponent, Tom Cruise?
https://screenrant.com/boys-deep-scientology-tom-cruise-church-collective/
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Well it’s a tie now between last weeks interview with Steve Cannane and this weeks with Jay Jeffrey. Really good interview. It’s nice to know that their are attorneys out there that not only stand up against the church of scientology, david miscavige and its/his tactics and abuses but an attorney that KNOWS HOW. He did his homework and knew what he was dealing with and if a legal rep, lawyer, judge doesn’t do that ahead of time, then they will be caught with their briefs – I mean pants – down.
My opinion (and it’s just my opinion) is that Marty did not do A-J. He did not go to the IJC so that he could do these steps and get back into the good graces of the church of scientology. He was probably approached by a rep of the church with a nudge that lead to the whole path Marty took that ended the lawsuit and put Marty in gravy for the rest of his and/or his family’s life. I do not believe he is “back” as a member of the church of scientology. He just did miscavige’s bidding, got his money, talked shit about whoever. You certainly won’t find him “doing services” or speaking at events, etc. If the church and david miscavige wasn’t losing that lawsuit but instead won that lawsuit or that Anti SLAPP motion, you wouldn’t have seen the scenario go down the way it did.
Mary Kahn said, “My opinion (and it’s just my opinion) … ”
I seem to be in a very rare mood tonight, Mary. But I don’t know why you would ever speak about your opinion as if it might somehow be worth less than other opinions. I must tell you that when I saw your appearance on the first season of Leah Remini: scamology and the aftermath, it changed my life. I decided I had to try to join the struggle to defeat this criminal cult that disguises as a religion and a church. From that moment on, I stopped going to many of the sites I used to visit and I spent a lot of my time learning about this scam and what it has done to people. I have had some direct experience with scamology. But only for a few days a very long time ago. But that was enough to convince me that it was a crazy con and I would never join.
Your history in this scam and the way you spoke about it just … well … I don’t want to say much more because I think you will understand what I am saying and I don’t think people will appreciate me going on at length about the unspeakable abuses that you and your family have suffered and how that affected people who saw you on Leah and Mike’s TV show.
I haven’t done all that much to fight against this scam. But I have contributed to the Aftermath foundation and some of the sites that oppose this scam. I’m currently writing a story about the evil abuses of this scam and …… well I won’t say any more about that because I don’t want to jinx myself or bore people.
But I’m certainly hoping that I can somehow play a part in the demolition of this criminal enterprise; even if I don’t do much more than just contribute to some of the people and groups that oppose it.
Mary, you made a huge impact on me and I don’t think you should ever downplay your opinions or your ideas. IMO, you are one of the biggest heroes in the fight against this scam.
Well said Skyler,
Humility is the strong suit against the cult. No member in good standing can truly understand why anyone would ‘lessen themselves’ by commenting that something is ‘only their opinion’ when it comes to $cientology (or perhaps anything else for that matter).
But that is where thinking for yourself begins. You have to know that of course it is ‘only your opinion’ and in that moment it also matters by just that same amount. Taken over time ones personal certainty increases and before you know it (when someone says you need to do this or that) you are ready to say “stick it” ……….. in my humble opinion! 🙂
yo Dave,
Stick it good buddy. And be sure to enjoy yer last minute stat push taday at too. Should be fun.
BTW, I had another great conversation yesterday shedding some light into yer tunnel of love called the CST vaults. Many more are now aware of the blight that exists in their backyard. I told em it was just my opinion and that they should check out yer website. Hope it helps yer clickbait count …….. speakin of stats!
I agree with you, Mary, all of the Leah & Mike “Fair Game” podcasts are excellent. The Steve Cannane podcast (Australian journalist), and the Ray Jeffrey podcast (attorney based in Texas)–whew, those are like mini college courses. So much detail and important history. I flagged those for a second listen. Absolutely excellent.
In addition, I second what has been said here, that YOU ARE AMAZING. Your contribution to the “Aftermath” series is so very powerful and helpful. Thank you, Mary. It looked like, from that episode, you early on in your Scientology career achieved Class VI auditor. So many “Well Done’s” you achieved over the years. And now you still are!
(I am a Class IV. It is particularly unnerving, when you are auditor trained and you know genuinely the power of truth, ARC, wisdom. For years, I privately thought: Why is this group so bi-polar? We have the knowledge and wisdom right here. Why not just practice Affinity-Reality-Communication to achieve Understanding? Why is this so difficult? Repeatedly tossed aside in favor of command and control.)
A most excellent podcast.With every subsequent one,I am learning more about what I consider to be a true terrorist organization.My sympathy to all ex Scientologists attempting to rebuild their lives despite being continually harassed.You are very brave to stand up to them.Keep the podcasts coming so people like me can learn and become aware of the Church’s devious policies.Thank you,Leah and Mike.
Thank you Nancy. I wish more people were willing to open their eyes to this monstrous threat like you have done. These monsters may not be called “terrorists” in the usual sense. But, please just ask yourself this one question.
How would you label an organization that maintains the potential to rip apart your family and ensure you can never see them again or talk with them again? Even if they never do such a thing, given that you know that will happen should you ever cross them in any way, how would you describe such an organization?
Would you call them a “Terrorist” organization? I sure as **BLEEP** would call them that.
Well done you guys! I almost teared up the first few minutes of the podcast. I’m so happy you’re being recognised for all the hard work you are doing. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be fair gamed and have great admiration and respect for you both.
O/T. Two updates regarding the Church of Scientology National Affairs Office (COSNAO).
First, the COSNAO continues its attack on the People’s Republic of China, joining a letter demanding that Congress support legislation to abolish forced labor programs in China.
https://dailyclout.io/coalition-demands-congress-support-legislation-to-abolish-forced-labor-programs-in-china/
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Rev. Susan Taylor from the Church of Scientology National Affairs Office in Washington, DC, an active member of the IRF Roundtable, added, “It is up to each of us to continue to stand up for those who cannot speak out for themselves. Religious and ethnic suppression must cease in China. This legislation will be but one step.”
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
Second, the COSNAO joined a letter to Pakistan Chief Minister Shah on behalf of Huma Younus, a Christian Pakistani girl who was kidnapped.
https://freedomofconscience.eu/the-case-of-huma-younus-christian-pakistani-girl-who-was-kidnapped/
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The latest podcast explains in great detail about Marty Rathbun’s turnaround back to SCI and the exact steps he took which exactly follow the procedures laid down in the script from the cult. It was always a bit of an enigma till this was explained, thank you.
A while ago I watched a video of Marty making legal deposition about how Miscavige had pursued him across the states when he left in order to plead with him to come back. This deposition was made in answer to questioning from a Sci lawyer which he seemed to find somewhat badgering. It was not clear what the point of this was. Was it in his defence of leaving or coming back.
During the podcast Ray explained how he got a “hi-def” version of a recording of the PIs hired by the scam where the scam said they didn’t have any such recordings. Ray said the judge was furious and I assume that was because they got caught lying. They got caught with their pants down.
I just want to ask when Ray explained how the judge was so furious about this, …. I was several thousand miles away from where the podcast was recorded. But …
“Could you hear me laughing?”
I just started to listen to this podcast (Episode 10 featuring Ray Jeffery) and Mike seems to say that Ray was living in Val Verde, Texas.
I may not have heard that correctly. It may have been “Bal Berde” or something like that. But I would like to ask the following. There is a movie called “Bandolero (1968)” starring James Stewart, Dean Martin and Raquel Welch and others.
If I recall correctly, that movie opened with a bank robbery in Val Verde, Texas. I would like to ask if there is any connection between the Val Verde in that movie and the Val Verde where Mike first met Ray Jeffery.
By the way, that movie is one of my all time favorites – a real classic Western movie. I got on to it because an old friend of mine (now unfortunately deceased) had a small part in that movie.
I’m just curious if the name of the town was completely ficticous or if there might be any connection between the use of that name to the real Val Verde Texas. It’s probably just a silly co-incidence
As I listened to this podcast, it quickly became one of my favorite podcasts. Early on, the topic of the “BACKFIRE” came up and as I have previously posted how much I love it when the scam tries to hurt people and it BACKFIRES on them and they come away looking like imbeciles and suffering a huge PR catastrophe. It was magical and delightful and it happened in this case. Pure gold!
Early on, the discussion turned to the lawsuit that the scam filed against Marty Rathbun and the counter-suit (I “counter-suit” believe that is the correct name) that Ray Jeffery filed on behalf of Monique Rathbun. That story was covered very thoroughly (I believe it was covered in the movie: Going Clear – if not it would have been in one of the episodes of Leah Remini: AFTERMATH. One of the reasons for the backfire was that Monique was never in the scam and so they could serve TED (The Evil Dwarf) and compel him to appear in court and this scared the living *BLEEP* out of him and so the scam just turned tail and ran away in fright. That was so beautiful. Everyone who has ever been abused by this scam must have been thinking to themselves, “Yippeeee!” when that happened. It was one of the most glorious and beautiful moments to ever occur in the fight against this scam.
Anyway, Leah seemed to be looking for the name of the kind of work Ray Jeffery did when he worked on the lawsuit. I believe she was trying to remember the name “pro bono” which means the lawyer does everything for free. “pro bono” means “for the good of everyone” (or something similar). But Ray chimed in that he was working on a “contingency basis” which is almost as good as “pro bono”. A “contingency basis” means the lawyer gets a percentage of any money collected from the person or corporation being sued. The client never has to pay anything before any money is awarded or collected (YUGE difference between those two things).
By the way, if anyone here ever gets talked into suing someone on a contingency basis, make sure the contract says you get the money as soon as a the court awards the plaintiff a judgment. The reason is that winning the case and being awarded a judgment is a long ways away from actually collecting any money. It is often impossible to chase someone down with a judgment and actually collect any money. So the client has to make sure they get the money based on the judgment being awarded – NOT the judgment being collected.
I’m sorry to blather on about this and I just hope this info may be helpful to someone here who may one day attempt to sue someone (and you know who I mean) for damages.
Bulverde
Thanks Mike. I may have heard it wrong when watching the movie. The actors in the movie may have been saying “Bulverde”. But it’s not worth taking any more time on this when it could all just be a co-incidence.
However, there is something that might be worth spending some time on. I had always thought it was a fact and it was well known that the scam had fled the courtroom in fear because they realized they were going to lose since Monique was never a member of the scam. But I see that once again I was mistaken.
It appears that everyone involved has no real knowledge of what happened – by which I mean:
Why was Ray Jeffrey fired?
Why did Marty & Monique suddenly go quiet in so many ways?
Where did the money come from for them to buy a new house?
I know the answers to these questions are unknown. But would it be interesting and helpful to understand the mind of this scam for people here to speculate on the reasons behind these events?
My first guess would be that when dealing with a psychopath like TED (The Evil Dwarf), the answer might just be that he may have thrown a big temper tantrum when the lawyers told him they were going to lose and he just may have nodded or something equally non-committal when the lawyers asked him if he would just like to make the entire mess disappear and to have Marty agree to keep quiet forever. The explanation may have been something as short and wacky as that.
But I’d like to know if anyone here has any other guesses as to what may have really happened?
Ballet Lady thank you very very much. I did fine since I left. It was my own decision. But my rehab went through the real understanding of what scn really is.
This blog and as well who leaves a comment helped tremendously to get rid of that coat (indoctrination) one still has on him about the way one looks life and think.
But I have no hate for the. If you have seen Star Trek’s cyborgs you have the exact idea. My disappointment goes mainly to hubbard and his ego and of course to Miscavige who kept on this perverted game of lies.
Wow! This may be my favorite episode by far. Its amazing to hear the resolve of truly good people.Ray is strong medicine and hopefully, a story like this inspires strength in others. It will take very special people to write this chapter on the dismantling and reckoning of these cowards, we’ll get there!
I’d be very interested if you have any guesses or speculations as to the reasons for the “cover up” and Marty & Monique going quiet and why they would accept $100K (which seems like a very small amount in retrospect). Would you care to make any guesses?
I would understand they would just be guesses. These are things which may never become known.
Considering Debbie Cook’s win, it definitely seems jr. sized. Just a guess, but the 100K could be the only visible part of a ‘deal’. There are many other ways to compensate that are not easily identifiable from the outside looking in.
He could have simply wanted back in to Scientology. A world without something you’ve grown accustomed to for a long portion of your life can be very frightening/frustrating.
Yes, they could have set up a trust or a fund for the kid, and not have to show that money. And there could be more money in off shore accounts in Marty’s name. Lots of way to give money and not show it.
Hey Mike,
I’m just now catching up on the podcast, I finished the Paulette Cooper episode. What a harrowing story. I noticed there’s no smear sites for her…I wonder if that was part of her settlement? Wonder what would happen if you brought her name up to some of the higher-ups…they would probably melt like the Wicked Witch!
The Rathbun house was purchased for $277,700 with a $170k mortgage. So someone showed up with about $120k or so in their pocket to pay for the house and the other expenses involved in such a purchase. While scraping up that kind of money for a home purchase is not at all unusual for a person at the end of their career, it shows astounding thrift when that someone has been able to accumulate such a nest egg on a Sea Org “salary.” It becomes even more amazing given the fact that the bearer of all that cash claims to be unemployable due to their past (?) cult association. Add to that the fact that, by his own repeated assurances, he is the last man standing who is completely honest and not for sale at any price, and it becomes mind-blowing.
Judas got 30 silver coins. It’s pretty difficult to calculate the present day value of that. But maybe not entirely impossible…
Per one coin site 30 one ounce silver coins would be worth about double their value today. Traitors come cheap.
That would be for bulk silver. The coinage would be valued much more to collectors.
Todd, I think that unfortunately, there’s no way to really figure out what happened, from afar.
For instance, as far as the house, for all we know Mosey might have had equity from a previous property she owned, or even the sort of help from family (or an inheritance) that many people get.
I don’t doubt that Rathbun made some sort of unsavory deal, but I suspect it was something rather unusual given the situation and his personality, and we will never really know unless there is some unexpected revelation.
I agree with you: We’ll probably never know for sure.
Plus, frankly, I doubt that the man who can’t be bought at any price would have settled for $120k with a $3 bn cult that he had over the barrel but good. Then again, he can only flash so much cash without attracting serious attention. Obviously, his former lawyers certainly thought that a payoff had occurred that didn’t include them for giving Marty his leverage in the first place.
Still, it’s a “coincidence” that’s not easily overlooked. Occam’s Razor and all…
Todd, it’s been said that the CofS has switched from lump-sum payments to ones doled out in increments – which would keep the recipient on the hook for complying with any agreements like NDAs, though I’m not certainly just how well such a reported change has really been confirmed. I think you’re right that Rathbun wouldn’t have settled for a small sum, certainly not knowing the sort of outlines that have been talked about as possibilities for whatever deal Debbie Cook made.
Someone who made a deal like that might have gotten a small lump sum on signing to start off with – or if they knew they had a guaranteed income, might have felt comfortable using some money they already had, on a down payment on a nicer home.
I’d say that Occam’s Razor largely calls for ignoring coincidences, unless there is a compelling case for correlation – so we’re stuck with a very unsatisfactory lack of good answers.
Todd, Wow thank you. I didn’t know he put down cash about $120,000 for the house and the $170,000 mortgage was what was left owing on it. You make good points: how does a SO lifer save up that kind of money on SO “salary” which usually means nothing to $45 a week. And Marty did make the point that he was “unemployable” because of his former cult lifestyle. So she was sole support of the family and his little dealings with selling things on Ebay brought pocket money. So the sequence of events is:
Just when he is winning, Marty and Mosey call off the lawsuit and fire the lawyers
Then they put down $120,000 cash on a house and buy a house
Then she quits her job
Then she opens a brick and mortar cupcake and cake store and runs it as her business
Marty then makes videos attacking his former friends and people who are speaking out about Scn.
All of that is date coincident with firing the lawyers and dropping the lawsuit.
You must realize Cindy and LMR and Balletlady that the real problem with you is that you are all social personalities. You compute things rationally, whereas to fully, and I mean fully understand this thing you have to be insane. Now, I do not claim to be wiser than any of you, nor do I claim to be anything but drunk right at this moment, but I can tell you from hard experience that those poor dumb bastards in the Sea Organization are better off dead like me. All they gots to do is get a blood transfusion back in the 1980, oops too late. ( maybe this was LRH was talking about when he was talking about ” Too little, to late”. I appreciate your good sentiment but it would possibly been more entertaining just to have me die ss commanded
I am, and will always be thankful for your support. But I must think that your support would mean more to someone who was still alive.
The BEST REVENGE if you can call it that…is that THEY all happily anticipated your demise PDQ…..& HERE YOU ARE…..hanging on & living life FREE away from them & their vindictive nasty greedy bastard selves.
A friend’s in-laws were hateful people….they hated him for no good apparent reason other than “he took their daughter away from them” & would not convert to “their religion”…..Jehovah Witness.
Despite ALL the lovely, kind, generous things he DID for them (while their OWN SONS ignored & abandoned them)…they wished & prayed for this man’s demise hoping to “regain their daughter.
A wonderful man who just let it roll off his back…& my friend & his wife (their daughter) ARE to this day a still married happy couple with lovely adult children & grandkids.
THEIR HATE literally ate this vindictive couple alive as they continued to battle ulcers & all other kinds of ailments. …literally a slow painful death process. They passed away in their mid to late 60’s taking their hate with them.
One day the internal hate will kill off many as they accuse, report, abuse & hurt each other…..what goes around comes around a lot of times. Stay strong my friend, YOU are NEEDED here!
Bill Strauss, I agree with Ballet Lady. Your voice is needed here. You are exposing the church and DM and I hope you continue to do that. Hang in there.
I greatly appreciate that, Cindy.
In the SO, the main reason I stayed is because they needed me.
The most disgusting part of COS is that they have in place a “contract” whereby you are sued for breaching their agreement not to speak out about their experiences in scientology.
That’s saying it’s ok that you were abused in ANY way, credit card fraud is ok, & their push for everyone in signing over your retirement fund, 401K, kid’s college fund, stocks/bonds/inheritance/sale of house/car & also keeping you behind a double facing razor wire fence is ok, chasing you down should you have the GUTS to leave/blow is what they consider normalcy…..I could go on and on but you get the picture.
Can’t do nothing about it…..like the song that never ends. A “settlement out of court” with a GAG ORDER in place….ssiggghhh….
Ballet Lady when I decided to leave (I was in the RPF Rehab Project Force at that moment) I had to sign a paper (in order to leave or else) where I wouldn’t have said anything about my own experiences or the cult in general. Of course any person would have signed anything including selling his own soul (as Faust did) to leave that asylum, run away and be free again.
But if you don’t sign you DON’T leave. Period. Security would come in followed by OSA and you could be easily back in troubles and then even declared.
This is the group with the incredible and unique tech capable to save the world and then the entire galaxy.
A fascist and bully gang without ideas of their own and therefore absent from real Life.
So sad LMR…..to be free of them I would have signed as well. That’s the truth to get out, get away & never look back outside of those horrific memories & dreams you must have had.
As I noted…double razor wire topped fences to keep people OUT but also to keep people IN….WHY would “they” feel compelled to keep people IN….of course…the $$$$$ & the stories one could tell.
Indeed a bully gang of THUGS and it goes on and on.
My friend, it fills my heart with joy & peace to know that you’ve found freedom, to live without those shackles that bound you & tied you to them for so long…even a DAY would be too long.
To LEARN to live a better life, it must have been HELL for you to readjust & hit the “reset” button. I have had a few friends who left different cults….their memories although faded in some respects…their dreams still haunt those who are still alive. They will ONLY talk to friends like myself…who KNOW their past involvement. Children of God…Moonies, Hare Krishna……FLDS…..just to name a few.
So many caring, loving, supportive friends right here to help carry the burden and pain others bear & are still weighed down with….to TELL OTHERS as a warning…..a wake up call….enlightenment….to never be silenced.
I am hoping that A & E will RELIGHT THE FLAME that burned so brightly….we NEED more RELIGIOUS CULT STORIES…..especially the AFTERMATH…..
Thank YOU for sharing your past, I can’t imagine how painful that is for you. My family will always be thankful & grateful that you will NOT REMAIN SILENT & ALONE IN THIS…….I am so very proud of you!
Balletlady, I think it’s a travesty that IRS declared ‘churches’ are even allowed to have such agrements as NDAs – part of their ‘public benefit’ requirement in exchange for tax-exempt status should be transparency (including financial), as well as not making corporate-style buyouts of departing executives. Unfortunately I think it’s going to be at least a generation before we see any change in the forces that provide protection popular televangelists and megachurch pastors, and think it’s okay for churches to operate just like businesses – which also provide freedom of operation and legal cover for abusive groups and cults branded as religions.
I was not asked to signen ze papers. It was not considered necessary to have anyone sign ze papers if their death is assured. Ooops, you poor dumb bastards, you reported an almost done as a done and probably even took a stat for it.
You know, I actually pity you poor bastards who were sure that I was going to die. I was certain of it myself, when my wife came to me and asked for som prediction on when I would die I told her it would be over in 3 weeks. 3 weeks later I was still breathing but I did not know who she was or what year it was or what country I was in.
You managed to turn victory into utter defeat . You know, I must owe you some amends for countering Command Intention and not dying as ordered. I must do my expanded A-E. Maybe A-F.
O/T. A week ago, I posted about Scientology’s failed attempt to obtain a conditional use permit for a dormitory to house staff for the Church of Scientology of Kansas City.
The next day, I posted that per Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad the Peace Rides had come to Kansas City.
Yesterday, the Church of Scientology International issued the following press release. Please note that they obtained the sponsorship of Councilman for the 3rd District-at-Large Brandon Ellington, the Kansas City Police Department, and the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council.
Stop the Killing: Peace Ride Unites the Community
https://www.newswire.com/news/stop-the-killing-peace-ride-unites-the-community-21225458
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Churches and nonprofits come together on International Peace Day to bring peace to the streets of Greater Kansas City where more than 200 have died by violence so far this year. The community action was organized by the Church of Scientology Kansas City in partnership with Councilman for the 3rd District-at-Large Brandon Ellington, United in Peace Foundation and The Way to Happiness Foundation.
[SNIP]
United in Peace uses The Way to Happiness, the common-sense moral code written by humanitarian L. Ron Hubbard, to promote a climate of unity and peace, counter violence, reverse the climbing homicide rate, and undercut other pressing social issues.
Among those spearheading the KC campaign were nonprofits, the KCPD and the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council.
[SNIP]
For more information visit the Scientology Newsroom or watch Voices for Humanity: Minister Tony Muhammad—Peace on the Streets on the Scientology Network.
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
One of my favorite things of all is when these fools initiate something in order to cause harm to someone and it backfires causing them to suffer an enormous PR disaster and to lose a large amount of prestige (assuming they ever had much prestige).
One of the best things about this is – just like Mike says – they keep on doing it so often. I remember how they read excerpts from Mark Headley’s book into a civil trial concerning his wife and that turned out to be an incredibly bad decision. I don’t recall ever seeing anything about how they fired the lawyer that decided to do that but I sure would have enjoyed that.
I always enjoy reading about their bad decisions that cause them to suffer large embarrassments and then how they try the same dumb technique over and over again. They just never seem to learn. Thank Goodness!
I wonder if the reason is because they are just not permitted to stray from the techniques that LRH said were the only way to do things.
Oh Lord, please just grant me this one prayer. Please allow me to live long enough to see the implosion and death of this horrible scam. After all, it is being led by your biggest enemy – namely: Satan!
Right, Skyler. By all appearances, the enterprise calling itself scientology IS led by what scientologists WOULD consider Satan — or an SP sometimes called COB. No one else could have so thoroughly crashed the stats and shrunk its public to almost nothing. There are more angry apostates than active scns these days. Personally, I’m not so much angry as sad for those still “in”. I sure hope the Aftermath Foundation helps ALL of them to regain the lives and families they gave up to follow the empty promises of that scam.
Amen to that!
Skyler said:
I remember how they read excerpts from Mark Headley’s book into a civil trial concerning his wife and that turned out to be an incredibly bad decision. I don’t recall ever seeing anything about how they fired the lawyer that decided to do that but I sure would have enjoyed that.
I think your getting Marc Headley confused with Mark “Marty” Rathbun. It was Rathbun whose wife Monique fired her lawyers. The whole long drawn out fiasco is laid out on a combination of this blog, Tony Ortega’s blog and Rathbun’s blog. I can understand how it gets confusing…that’s if I’m understanding your post correctly.
Yes. I mixed up the two of them. I thank you for the correction. It was still a very satisfying episode.
Skyler I share the same prayer in your last paragraph.
Thank God for lawyers like Ray Jeffrey. They take on the cult despite the risks. Ray seems to have emerged from it all in excellent condition.
When I joined the cult in 1972, I had no idea of the way it would turn out after fifty years. When I got in they were trying to kill Paulette Cooper. Actually the Rathbun episode was entirely predictable. Participating in his blog was the clue. Rathbun always maintained a very, very strong personal viewpoint with no connection to reality. Given his family situation, it was obvious he would fold to Miscavige. I am personally a big loser in all of this having lost over $120,000 to get to OT VIII. You could also count the loss of fifty years of attention to a cult leader trying to figure him out. Several of my OT VIII friends left and never ever looked back and that is why you see so few OT VIII;s on the blogs. The only benefit to studying Hubbard for over fifty years is not that you understand him but that it is possible to see what produced him and apply it. So I guess I got my $120,000 back in new opportunity.
George M. White said: “Thank God for lawyers like Ray Jeffrey.”
Amen to that!
I really look forward to this Podcast. Debbie Cook and her letter and her lawsuit changed the course of history for the church of scientology and david miscavige. Boy, those were the times. This is what I like to refer to as “The Era of Implosion” for the church of scientology. Members were leaving “en masse.”
I’ll never forget being freshly out myself, seeing her on the stand testifying. It was horrible for her but it doesn’t get much better than that, the satisfaction of knowing the harm she was exacting against david miscavige and what watching that must have been doing to his already insane mind.
And then there’s Marty (I mean marty. He doesn’t deserve the designation of a proper noun; he’s a simple noun, a thing.) Lifeforms don’t get much lower than he in my opinion. There were a lot of people that took being declared and losing their families because they were on his blog or stood up for him. It must have been a real “ego” boost for marty to have david miscavige offer him such an enormous amount of money to drop that lawsuit and then talk shit about those trying to shine a light on dave. The power that marty held in his hands over dave and the sensation he had/has knowing that dave was squirming because of him. Welcome to the lower rung of life marty.
I have found one version of Episode 10 of the podcast featuring Ray Jeffrey. The link follows. But I want to first tell people there seems to be multiple places where you can find this podcast and some people have said that some places have more controls than others. The following link seems to offer a minimal set of controls (like no control over the speed of the playback). The link that Mike supplies usually seems to me to have the most complete set of controls. So, if Mike posts a link, I think you should try his link first because you may well prefer it to the following link.
I’m sorry. But I really don’t know a whole lot about creating podcasts and the controls they have.
https://podcasts.podinstall.com/leah-remini-mike-rinder-scientology-fair-game/202009290401-episode-10-attorney-ray-jeffrey-taking-scientology-courtroom.html
We identify the harrassment of Paulette Cooper as the vile act it actually was. But we’re seeing the harrassment of Paulette Cooper from an objective perspective. From the subjective perspective the perpetrators of the harrassment of Paulette Cooper saw themselves as being good people doing good things with their victims and opponents as being evil.
Voltaire said it: Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
And try to remember what Theramin Trees said: Those who don’t want you to think are never your friends.
Otherles, My goodness! I never realized it was Voltaire who said: “Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.” That is definitely a good one.
I hope you won’t mind me returning the favor by giving you a good one in return. I saw someone wearing a shirt with the following slogan, “Scientists say the universe is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons. But they forgot about morons.”.
How appropriate for today’s blog.
Otherles. Another one that fully applies to DM and OSA specifically comes from Nietzsche:
By dint of hunting monsters, one risks becoming a monster himself.
Incorrectly quoted.
-Voltaire.
He was specifically talking about the Catholic Church.
It would be a lot more impressive if his followers and students did not commit far worse atrocities in the name of his “philosophy” – known as the “terror”. (French Revolution)
The second half of the Nietzsche quote also applies:
-Nietzsche
And we know what happened to the ones most enamored with Nietzsche… swallowed by the abyss. No one believes that they are themselves a monster, in their hearts they have justified their actions. (World War II)
All I am saying is that is not enough to say that someone believes in something that I don’t believe in, therefore they are evil and I am good. No one actually knows enough to absolutely make such a judgement.
In science, every scientific assertion carries the seeds of the next scientific breakthrough, which will refine or explode the original assertion. If you “believe in science” you don’t actually understand science.
It is perfectly appropriate to condemn Scientology, but not because they believe weird crap. There are lots of really weird ideas that turned out to be good explanations of the world, like Einstein’s warped space-time and quantum mechanics. Not that I actually think Hubbard’s weird ideas are worth the butcher paper he typed them on, mind you, but he often copied other’s ideas. You have to examine each one on its own merits.
No, he reason to condemn Scientology is the wide-spread human wreckage that they leave in their wake, the broken families, spirits and lives. Judge them by their actions.
You can’t convict someone of having an idea, we still don’t actually prosecute thought-crimes in the USA. You can convict them of larceny, kidnapping, murder, human trafficking and so on.
Bruce , great comment . Thank you
Great comment, BP!
The problem with scien-bollocky, specifically, is that there is a direct connection between its beliefs/policies and the abusive, criminal,
intentionally harmful actions that its adherents and organizations routinely and even proudly engage in.
There is a long, sordid history of crimes, atrocities, and abuses committed by this group, dictated by written policy( scientology ‘scripture’ ) and its members zealous fealty to Flubbard, Miss Savage,and the fanatical application of said “policy”.
No, good people in a society with rule of law, know that it is wrong resort to breaking the law, regardless of whether ends-justifies-the-means rationalizations might be constructed.
There are plenty of examples of people recognizing wrong, and resisting urges or even orders to commit such acts. It is those with deficient or defective ethical and moral compases, criminals and sociopaths and psychopaths, who can harm their fellow human beings and not understand the fundamental wrong in it.
There’s some value in understanding the twisted mindset of such inhumane utilitarianism, and perhaps we can even empathisize with it in some way. But I think that even in the history of Scientology, we can see that it was those with pre-existing proclivities, who became involved in the worst activities like the harassment of Cooper, and generally remain unrepentant; the fundamentally decent people, like Tory Christman, were repelled and stepped away before even getting very deeply involved in wrongdoing.
PM, I agree with your comment.
I saw many people leave, myself included, when they realized that scientology is BUILT on and COMMITTED TO the idea of ruining people, NOT “helping” them or “making them more able”. Whether its the daily “staff culture” that features face-ripping, back-stabbing, shaming, lying, manipulating, and literal slave labor…or the ” universe-saving” culture of OSA that involves stalking, harassing, and engaging in other kinds of serious criminal activity, when THAT particular curtain of naivete about what the “church” really is all about is lifted, most folks leave…or at least fade into invisiblity whilst trying to hold on to family relationships with those still inebriated by the cult kool-aid…
Any ” real” scientologist, that is, one who adheres to “policy” and belives that she/he is a member of a small, elite group that possesses “THE(only) TECH” that will save this universe, HAS to embrace the dismissal of, manipulation of, humiliation of, abuse of, and even elimination of all “psychs” and other “enemies” of the group-period. Scientology beliefs,applied/enacted, invariably and predictably produce insane, harmful, criminal results.
I guess you could make a distinction between faith, science and pseudo-science.
Faith is not ultimately based on fact, it is more like a reasoned extrapolation from the known into the unknown. It is hard to argue with someone’s sincerely held faith, because the basic bones of the argument are data that are not really known by anyone. In the long run it is a personal matter.
Science is based on factual observations, so you can argue about it very effectively. Observations and facts trump wandering ideas or hardened orthodoxy. That makes it a very effective way to pursue truths that can be observed and known by all, not so effective for the evanescent universal truths that sustain a faith.
Pseudo-science is the tool of the tricksters and con men. I guess you could also put pseudo-religion in the same category. Scientology rolls it both ways, pretending to be a religion based on science! Pretended facts or beliefs, constructed evidence, biased reporting or outright lies, all these propaganda tools construct a vast shining façade that hides a money-grubbing, venal reality.
It is useless to argue with a con man, he has all his lying arguments marshalled in advance. Every possible objection is covered by some well-fabricated lie.
The con men misappropriate the reputation of real scientists and real religious beliefs to ply their vicious trade. Wearing the brilliant robes or the lab coats but hiding the long knives within. Ideally only a few at the tip of the pyramid really know how false the system is, that makes for a vast underlying network of true believers that are deceived into contributing their cash, time, lives and hearts to a heartless enterprise, never knowing that they are simply dupes.
Since the easiest person to fool is yourself, self-delusion makes the clear distinctions I described above more of a murky mess. Even Mother Teresa had her doubts, and the most criminal con man may be conning himself that he was only trying to help. A truly dedicated scientist may devote his whole life to a very plausible hypothesis that turns out to be incomplete.
The only way out is to honestly observe the facts that are in front of you and embrace enough humility to admit that you could be wrong. Impossible for dedicated malignant narcissists like Hubbard but you and I can do it.
These are excellent points and observations! Thank you for sharing! Well said.