Today’s episode is Leah and I responding to questions from listeners.
We cover a lot of things in more detail than we had time to do on The Aftermath, and in many cases even more details than I can find the time to write about on the blog.
A few documents we mentioned would be made available here and at fairgamepodcast.com.
Scientology’s COVID response:
Tony Ortega has extensively covered scientology’s response to the pandemic.
Here is the Miscavige’s briefing document where he calls COVID 19 a “planetary bullbait.”
Here are some of the earlier posts I have done concerning illness in scientology:
Scientology Deaths and Suicides
There was controversy when scientology claimed they were following the rules but Sea Org members were NOT following the protocols.
Buses unloading at Flag demonstrating they are NOT in fact engaged in social distancing:
Their response to try and get some good PR out of the pandemic — going around and offering advice to everyone else and spraying Scientology cleaning products
They think they are Handling the world
And here is the outrageous facts about the Covid Bailouts scientology has gotten to preserve the “jobs” — when they specifically claim they do NOT “employ” anyone. All jobs in scientology are done by “volunteers.”
Dianetics
Here is Hubbard in Dianetics talking about solving the ills and diseases of man.
And the infamous quote in Dianetics about the 7 year old girl shuddering when a man kisses her, even passionately.
Here is the story of Lynne Patton, the woman in the White House who claimed that Trump would handle scientology tax exemption.
And finally, Pam Bondi, former Florida AG, is a touted ally of scientology:
Thank you to you and Leah for getting the truth out about this cult and covid and illness.
Many have been harmed and some even died due to it’s lack of belief in illness, viruses, medical treatment etc etc… (Lisa McPherson and many others)
Some people are trying to say that Scientology does follow medical science and does believe in illness.
That it simply not true.
There are numerous quotes by Hubbard to the contrary.
The biggest Scientology story in 2020 is their stance on disease and their response to covid 19.
This will haunt the cult for ever.
I love all the excuses given to pedophiles so that they are allowed to continue their sickening behavior towards children.If I hear one more time that Scientology considers children to be adults in little bodies,I am going to projectile vomit.My adult daughter,who is over forty,about 4 feet,ten inches,can pass for a teenager,is insulted and outraged over Scientology’s treatment of children.And as for Dr.Hubbard’s statements that all maladies are psychosomatic,tell that to my OB-GYN when I see her tomorrow to be scheduled for surgery for a recent problem that I obviously gave myself.LRH could not find his asshole with a funnel if he was still alive.
Another beautiful and enjoyable episode. Thank you guys.
Personally, after I got out, I didn’t look for other faiths. However, I found in Zen philosophy what was most relevant to my being and it works – serenity and a sense of greater presence in every moment of the day. Although I don’t consider myself a Buddhist.
A question that in my opinion is fundamental and that is there for all to see is the following:
if it is so true that the planet must be cleared and only they can save it and time is too short, why have they never lowered the prices of the services to facilitate a greater flow of people on the higher levels ??
If I had the urge to get people out of a place at risk and time is short I would not lose myself in nonsense like they do.
Rather, they seem to have no real urgency. And this already answers the question and speaks volumes about their true intentions.
Some sects of Zen Buddhism give credence to the concept of “Instant Enlightenment.” There is a story in Zen lore about a monk who was in murky irresolution over a koan he had been given and went to his Master, the great Master Tsu for help. Master Tsu asked the monk to give him a low bow and when he did so he gave the monk a swift boot to his posterior and the monk was said to have obtained Instant Enlightenment. From that point forward the monk told people he met, “Since Master Tsu gave me that boot I haven’t been able to stop laughing.”
When Buddhism is mentioned I like to recommend my favorite reference book on Buddhism called “Buddhism: A Way Of Life And Thought” by Nancy Wilson. It’s easy reading, has a full glossary and index and is available in paperback reprint for $10.
“Scientology: A Way Of Life And Thought” would probably not be a good seller.
Richard thank you. I will look for that book. Sure that scn as “a way of life and thought” wouldn’t be a great book to read. Do well.
Loosing – You’re welcome. The author is Nancy Wilson Ross which is a typo above and the book is available on Amazon.
There is also a story in the book about a Master who supposedly died standing on his head. He remained in that position creating a stir until his sister who was a Buddhist nun showed up and knocked the corpse over and ordered his Buddhist brothers to carry it off to the burial ground. Lol
Ms. Ross says Zen Buddhists often enjoy self deprecating humor.
I resonate with a lot of non-dualism which has a background in Zen. Some notable teachers are Adyashanti, Mooji, Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts.
The Master’s sister supposedly criticized her brother, accusing him “showing off” even in death. lol
One more story from Ms. Ross’ book and I’ll leave it at that.
The Headmaster of a Buddhist commune was retiring and in order to choose a successor he wrote a koan on a wall and the senior monks were to write their solution beneath it and he would pick the monk with best solution as the new headmaster.
A lowly acolyte saw the koan and decided to write his solution. When the Headmaster saw the acolyte’s solution which was by far the best he quickly summoned the acolyte and sent him running since he knew the older monks would munch him.
(I think there is an analogy to scn in there somewhere – lol)
One thing I never understood… if the goal is a “clear planet” and, if I’m remembering correctly, anyone who has undergone certain psychiatric treatment or taken psychotropic drugs can never go clear**, it seems like a huge number of people are ineligible to go clear. Maybe the goal is to get MANY people clear, in a herd-immunity sort of thinking?
**I may be misremembering this. Can anyone confirm?
Vivian – Nothing in scn auditing/counselling talk therapy addresses people with psychiatric problems. The supposed idea was that by making the able more able it would result in a better planetary condition. Enrolling people with psychiatric conditions would obviously result in huge administrative and organizational problems.
It didn’t take long for me to realize that clearing the planet was just a slogan since it took too long and cost too much money for a person to go clear.
I was living in LA around 1980 when probably hundreds of scientologists left all at once when Hubbard started jacking up the prices. Several “blown scientologist” get together groups sprung up and I joined one. There were about fifteen of us and we met weekly at someone’s house and discussed scn and other practices. It turned out that all of the people in that group had been interested in improving their own personal abilities which scn had promised with little or no aspirations toward clearing the planet. Other people may have had more Utopian goals.
The big question in my mind about this cult declaring it will save the planet from COVID is the cost. I can just imagined when asked how much it will cost for them to do this, a cult rep would have countered:
1) How much do you have? and …
2) How much can you borrow? and …
3) Can you spare some change?
My biggest concern about loudly and publicly supporting anti-Scientology groups is that I don’t know what they have in my old file from when I was a teenager and involved for a couple of years. Do they ever reveal stuff from ethics folders and so forth in their hate campaigns? Part of the coercion to keep me in a relationship with an abusive man was to have me do extensive overt/withhold write ups on my second dynamic, which contained really intimate info. And I revealed really personal stories in session, too. I hate knowing there’s a folder out there with this stuff in it.
A few years ago, they figured out my new address and I started getting frequent, one-sentence letters (gotta meet the mailing stat somehow!) with info obviously mined from my staff folders from almost 30 years ago, which makes me feel really anxious. I’m always so tempted to use the self-addressed stamped envelope to write back and tell them what I really think, but I’m scared of what personal info of mine they have access to.
Even just commenting here with a fake name makes me anxious!
My PC folders will be even older, and in another country, so I should be safe, but I have family who are still in. I don’t want to jeopardize their certainty when I’m not in a position to provide close support for them to leave the cult.
The next best thing is to spread the word about the abuses so no-one else ever joins.
I don’t know who takes any of the cult’s Fair Game claims about former members seriously. When I read the stuff the cult writes, I feel like I am reading the Enquirer. I can’t consider something a credible source when they go to the extent the cult does to sensationalize things. There may be a grain of truth in their articles, but I’m not willing to look through all of the BS to find it.
Besides, I don’t give a rat’s ass about what any former member has done. As a never -in, I can’t imagine what it is like to be in that group. It is nothing like the world I live in, so why would I apply the standards of my world to theirs?
I wonder if there is any legal route to getting one’s folders back?
Even if you could get a copy for yourself, they would still have all of the information. Several people are suing them over Fair Game. I wonder how many more law suits they are willing to defend?
I never joined scientology but to see how they continue to pose a threat to you many years after you left makes me angry.
There are other ways to help bring them down without becoming a target. You can donate to Mike’s foundation that helps people who leave the cult.
And you can share your experiences here to help warn off others.
I’m so sorry for the trauma CoS caused you.
“Vivian”, you could just use the return envelope to send various articles (e.g. from this blog) or send something about Xenu and Body Thetans back to them to then get “dead filed” (I assume you know how that works).
Your concern is understandable, but do not let it stop you from speaking out. Speaking out about what was going on behind the facade and what you experienced is not only corroborating to what thousands of people were telling before you, but it can be quite liberating for one’s mind. I’m ex S.O. and regarding your last sentence, I experienced that too, many years ago. The anxiety will subside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUQsqBqxoR4
Also, their smear sites are mostly about the “VIP-SPs”, those who were speaking out in the media and/or had blogs and forums and/or wrote books about Scn. There are just too many exes meanwhile and they don’t have the capacity anymore to go after every person who speaks out (you can also change dates and locations). And then also what Susan said!
I’m looking forward to hear your story somewhen in the futur under a different name).
Wish you Happy Holidays and all the best for 2021!
It’s a fair point that I’m probably not significant enough to expend any resources on. But that’s not to say that I won’t be someday, as a person who works in media. Who knows…I might still make something of myself!
I used to really worry about being declared because of how it would effect my family and work life (my ex-husband, with whom I have a child, is in a long-term relationship with someone from OSA) but now my child is an adult who is well educated on the matter and would have my back. Although I might lose a few casual friends, it would not be as devastating as it once would have been.
May I just say how lovely it is to speak openly, even with a fake name, about this stuff with fellow exes. Very cathartic. Cheers to Mike Rinder for his efforts! Thank you for creating this space.
Now I’m curious about legal protections for information revealed in “confession” in religious contexts … and if things from one’s ethics or PC folders were made public, would that be against any laws, being that it’s a “church” and all? Perhaps it varies state to state. I’m going to have to do some research now!
I found psychological counselling to be worth it as I got an exterior viewpoint to my life. You might be thinking that some situation in your past was normal while it was actually unhealthy and not normal. You might have buried pain that you might better process with the help of a trained professional. You might have something going on that caused you to take all kinds of abuse from Scientology rather than having the self respect to walk away at an early stage.
Psychologists go through lots of training based on at least some scientific basis. I am sure there are better ones and worse ones, but my experience was worthwhile.
Of course if you are a cheapskate there is always journaling.
Per the Doobie Brothers – What a fool believes, he sees. While I’m thinking about it Dean Wormer would have told Tubbard, ” fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life”. Unfortunately Tubbard would never have been accepted to Faber college. When I look at pictures of Tubbard in his goofy uniforms and costumes I wonder how could anyone believe that this misfit had the answer to life’s problems. The guy couldn’t even figure out the best way to clean a window.
O/T. Video: My Coming Out Story – How Coming Out As Gay Helped Me Escape Scientology, by Connor Rock.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EPqltb2mtPM
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Connor Rock
Published on Dec 22, 2020
Here’s the story I’ve been building to, the last couple videos.
This is my coming out story. I go over what it’s like coming out as gay in a Scientology family.
Our family joined Scientology when I was 5 years old, what is it like spending your life in Scientology, knowing that you’re gay?
What is Scientology’s stance on homosexuality? How did there policies affect my mental health?
How coming out helped to get me out of the “church”.
*Trigger Warning*
This video includes mentions of sex, suicide ideations, and abuse
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
Scientology Service Completions for a Conner Rock:
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/c/conner-rock.html
/
NOTE: Connor Rock changed the title of his YouTube video after I posted. The title now is: “How Coming Out Inspired My Emotional Escape From the Cult of Scientology.”
One of the many things Biden has to do when he takes over is go after the cheats who have conned the bailout system. Getting money back from the CO$ should be easy enough. As every Clam is an FSM, I bet most of them are trying to ride the Paycheck Protection scam.
As the CO$ got its tax exemption back by having every clam sue every IRS agent, maybe it is time for the IRS to sue every Clam who claimed bailout money. Turnabout is fair play, isn’t it?
I think I heard somewhere that Dave Miscavige awards himself a yearly salary of $100,000. Certainly he pays taxes on that. His lawyers would have a fit if he didn’t, with all the legal actions swirling about him.
He should also declare all his perks as income, and it is unlikely that he does. Might be an issue this year, with no public speaking appearances. How does he write off the clothes, coiffure and travel expenses? Somehow I can’t see him foregoing the yearly scuba diving expeditions, four-wheeler jaunts and London pub-crawling forays just because there are no big public events.
If you have 100 or more personal servants that are paid room, board and $50 a week, do you declare the $50 a week as income or the full cost of ownership? The slaves in this case exist only to please Miscavige, so certainly they count as benefits of employment. None of them perform any “ecclesiastical” or “monastic” duties, they maintain his equipment, cook his food and provide for his every wish.
If you count their labor at the legal minimum wage for example, we are in the $millions a year just for the Sea Org slaves. Undeclared I am sure.
Cars, stereos, movies, private jet flights, lavish living quarters, hot and cold running slaves, all perks of the job. Even the real Pope doesn’t live like a Miscavige.
Maybe we can get him on tax evasion.
That wouldn’t completely wipe out Scientology, but would go a long way towards making it a minor footnote in cult history. Without the perks for the jerks at the top, nobody would bother with it much.
Thanks, Mike. Can’t wait.
Just listened to both parts of your interview with Jon Atack. Holy smokes, what great material.
You debriefed the FBI in 2009?
THANK YOU.
Gawd, now wouldn’t THAT have been a marathon.
It was therapeutic for me to just envision you doing it.
All through it I kept thinking I should stop and make some notes so I could properly thank you, I forget faster than I hear things these days. 🙂 But it was a GREAT show, Mike.
Thanks to Jon too. Super.
All the stuff on the “research” in early DN and the false claims etc, .. it’s an antidote to the hours spent in darkened rooms listening to May 9th event yawnfests of BS.
Thanks. I will give it a re-listen for sure.
(even if it did trigger night-long dreams doing TRs, face ripping, and the smell of garbage in the early 1980’s Hibiscus dining room) (it always slayed me that this was the “Exec” (!) dining room, and you couldn’t have a meal in there without the powerful stench of the the big bins just outside)
It was also the favored dining room of Flag’s massive palmetto bug ‘public’.
Thanks again!
Merry Christmas
Great chat.
It must have quiet the lobbying and smoozing effort to make sure Trump did not revoke the Org’s tax exempt status. No wonder they continue to lick his boots.
I find it very instructive to watch how a bully behaves in the presence of bigger bullies (e.g. Trump meeting Putin).
Regarding Trump “cozying up” to Putin, Kim and others, there is an old saying, “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
I find it amazing that some pundits believe Trump was unaware that these men are actually murderous dictators.
Thank you both again for calling out the church of scientology’s bullshit and holding them accountable. I keep hearing from our elected officials that we are a “land of laws.” But the truth of the matter is that we are a “land of lawyers doing the bidding for those with the money to afford it.” Otherwise, Justice is served only sometimes and avoided most of the time.
The last few minutes of this podcast gave me a nice laugh about how “long winded” you guys are and the increase in your asking price to shut up. Maybe if the church knows you have an asking price, miscavige will pay it – NOW – LOL – before it goes up another 25 million. 😉