This week, Leah and I welcome the wonderful Phil Jones. You may know him (and his charming wife Willie) from the “Call Me” billboards they put up after trying to reach their disconnected children, Mike and Emily. We cover a lot of ground in our talk, what happened that caused them to leave scientology, their efforts to reach their children, the LAPD, scientology’s Fair Game intimidation tactics and the realities of family life in scientology.
I will add the link as soon as it is available:
This is one of the last shots they have of the family together:
The billboard that was erected in Los Angeles — but not after a concerted campaign by scientology to block it (it succeeded with 2 billboard companies):
And here is the press “scrum” Phil describes when the billboard finally went up:
The “Missing” poster they put up around Celebrity Centre: 
The Way to Happiness Precept #5: Honor and Help Your Parents: “The Way to Happiness includes being on good terms with one’s parents or those who brought one up.” This is also the precept that states, “It is not always easy to get along with others, but one should try.” Author is L. Ron Hubbard (Yup)
Like ALL the “Fair Game” podcasts, this story, its bold twists and turns, is ANOTHER full-on breaker of the heart. Unimaginable that these two parents had done nothing but quietly fade away from C of S, yet they had their life blasted full of holes. How is that “theta,” just, or even NECESSARY?
This story of courage and perseverance by Phil and Willie is very inspiring. Thank you, Phil, for stepping into the podcast booth to share with Leah and Mike. Your story and your work and influence are deeply valuable and appreciated.
Honestly, if I were still in, I would have this tale recounted to me, and I would have taken up the party line: “Oh, those parents are dramatizing.” The cleverness of the C of S labyrinth. It is as if LRH thought through about 270 degrees of the circle. When you are in, you keep getting plugged into one of those 270 or so possibilities of explaining the most terrible behaviors and practices in the group. Those of us who come out, by some good fortune, when our Scientology Thought Roulette Wheel spun one day, it stopped at (instead) one of the 90 other Thought Spots available, one of the SANE SPOTS. We saw our way out.
It is a miracle of not small magnitude because the justifications for all the weird behavior is built right into the machinery. Sea Org and staff members conversationally tell you the most outrageous viewpoints but they state them with so much certainty, plus they are in a uniform, as a public, you tend to lap it up and nod your head yes. Of course, they have also drilled and drilled INTENTION and so they PENETRATE.
Phil, best to you and Willie and your family. Any person would love to have you as a friend, colleague, family member or dad, Dude!
Phil and Willie thank you for all you have done and are doing. It’s hard to take on this Beast called $cientology and many I know stayed quietly in the shadows to avoid the pain the Kult just has to inflict on “infidels.” It’s in their “Sacred Scripture ” to utterly ruin every “enemy.”
But it’s easier to live with yourself when you do fight back. And We will win this fight in the end. Trusting your kids see the light and escape sooner rather than later.
Living movements have people caring about their connections.
Living dead have thetans unable to care about near and dear.
Mike explains in the podcast how they are working on new generations of scientologists as a source of recruitment for the Sea org.
This makes one think.
Scn is totally bound by anything hubbard says or writes. Nothing can be changed.
A comparison could be a train running crazy speed but WITHOUT a driver. Fully automated and where no one can change anything, not even Miscavige who is just the head of the conductors.
And now with these kids they prepare future manpower to ensure that this running train still has a crew to make sense of it, but not what it carries.
I love the podcast with you and Leah! Keep it up. You guys are doing a great job!
This podcast brought me to tears. Phil and Willie are such strong and amazing people. My heart goes out to them and to anybody dealing with disconnection.
Here’s the thing though, I guess I don’t really get it. I don’t understand how anybody can successfully continue to wall themselves off so completely to the point of disconnecting from a parent/child/sibling/family-friend forever.
On an intellectual level I get the disconnection policy. The policy is there to keep obedience because as long as the person is and stays disconnected they are not distracted by the non-person’s reactiveness (because scientologist are so not reactive **sarcasm here**) and will continue to serve without question
But on a purely heart level…no way do I get this!! I mean, the amount of personal disconnection an active scientologist must do from themselves in order to continue and stay away is what I find difficult to understand. When an active scientologist lays their head to pillow, in the quiet of the night, don’t they question themselves? … even a little?
Even if they keeps themselves super busy, super engrossed in what their doing. At some point, they do slow down, don’t they wonder? Or, lets say, Scientology is successful in minimizing their empathy towards outside
reactive people. Don’t their eyes still work! If you SEE your picture on a flyer or see your brother or see your father walking down the street, You SEE them and you do SEE their faces therefore, don’t you see the pain in their face/eyes. How do you ignore what YOU SEE.
I don’t get it. It breaks my heart! And Scientology needs to stop the disconnection policy
Phil and Willie Jones, Mike and Christie, Mary Kahn … you are all super heroes!
Diane. There is a strong system of indotrination in the cult. One key is that one is a ‘thetan’. An entity that has always existed. He took that body one’s parents have generated. They too are thetans. Child / parents becomes a useless concept. The highest purpose is to help (but only in scn). Anything current – including parents or other relatives – are all passing things. He aims for eternity!
After a while, one sees the cult and hubbard as the source of all truths.
Believe it or not why one can see his parents as evil entities lays on the above points.
Or, as the only Right Arm Captain in the Sea Org screamed at the top of his lungs at my wife and myself ” I don’t give a FUCK about family”.
Well, there is a Captain SO who has NO second dynamic. He’s saying he is less than 7/8ths alive.
I never bought the concept that scientology (a third dynamic activity) was all eight dynamics to them. Maybe they collapsed all of their dynamics into scientology. yikes!
i got hammered whenever i would tell them that weekends were my fun dynamics time. Movies, diners, parties m’ycle rides, camping, sexinging, and family time.
Bill laughing loud. That’s exactly the evidence needed. Listen this one:
Years ago when my small grandaughter was born the father was quite unexistent so I took charge of the place. Later on someone from the SO wanted me back on lines to help rising money for some usual crazy project. I told them to be not interested and that now I had other priorities – the child. Of course the SO staff decided to handle my origination and told me “I don’t get how come you are so fixated with this GE – genetic entity – stuff”.
I told her to get lost (but in Italian is way more colorful).
It’s not so hard, it pains me to say. Speaking from experience. Not when you perceive someone as an infinite being with cosmically evil intent.
But you can’t erase real love and fond memories, no matter how selective you have to be when (continually) justifying the decision to sever ties. There’s a frustration in that. A dissonance. An admission of something that you can’t switch off. A reminder you’re still human and not
spockan all powerful god. A self-loathing. You can dissassociate from it. You can suppress it. Scientology can help with that. But it’s always there.When the cost of adherence outweighs the benefits (à la rational choice theory) the veil will begin to lift. And all that hate/disgust/apathy you repeatedly manifested in order to keep making yourself right, will shift into an unimaginable shame that will haunt you to your dying day.
The Daily Dot: Scientology took 80 loans from the government during the coronavirus pandemic
The loans totaled over $6 million.
Feb 2, 2021, 9:45 am* Eric Levai
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/scientology-pandemic-loans-ppp-eidl/
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Previously, the Daily Dot exclusively reported that Scientology received 30 Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans designed for small business relief, but new data released about the Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) program led to the discovery of 50 additional EIDL loans totaling $1,585,101, increasing Scientology’s windfall to over $6 million.
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
The full list:
https://www.scribd.com/document/492897435/Pandemic-Relief-Loans-Received-by-Scientology
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O/T. Pretty Messed Up Podcast with AJ McLean & Cheryl Burke:
The Remini We Need. (Feb 1 — 64 min)
On iHeart Radio:
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-pretty-messed-up-71494451/?keyid%5B0%5D=Pretty%20Messed%20Up&keyid%5B1%5D=The%20Remini%20We%20Need&sc=podcast_widget
On Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4tN7AuATtJFuJuA4OnWKby
* * * * * BEGIN INTRODUCTION * * * * *
Cheryl’s best friend Leah Remini joins AJ, Cheryl, and Rene to tell them her truth about Scientology. Leah has been very public about her experience but to hear her share her story with her close friends allows for a very different perspective. Now, she’s helping us understand what her journey has really been like.
* * * * * END INTRODUCTION * * * * *
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Thank you Phil. I was very moved while listening to you and your story. I appreciate your heart and willingness to be vulnerable. Your story and my story are very similar. I know your heartache and appreciate you letting me know via this interview that you know mine.
I hope and pray that you and Willie one day know the thrill of having all your children in your lives.
Thanks Mary. I hope we all get our kids back sooner rather than later.
Thanks so much Leah and Mike for another great episode.
Phil is a person who has a great sense of honor and respect for others. An example for all.
Although I have been there for 15 years I don’t know how I would react if my daughters or granddaughters were cut off from me because of the cult.
The practice of disconnection exists, and is the key instrument they use mercilessly to control people.
The most absurd thing is that it is put into practice by those who say that communication is the universal solvent. One could be more hypocrite?
Thanks LmR.
STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT?
Mike, please feel free to delete this post if you consider it to be too far Off Topic.
I just saw a news story about how a married couple who are famous for writing childrens’ books were just arrested and charged with what the police in Florida called, “the most horrific case of child abuse they have ever seen”!
I thought since this happened in Florida and since Clearwater is in Florida and since disconnecting children from their families is a pretty horrific form of child abuse and since Leah spoke about disconnection in this podcast … (Leah said words to the effect, “This is your family and these are your children and this is your church and your church is disconnecting your children from their parents and they are ripping these families apart … “.
Maybe someone in Florida might like to tell the authorities who arrested these people about this phony church that is abusing children in Florida. I was thinking maybe it might be time to strike while the iron is hot and maybe some people in Florida might be sufficiently pissed off to try and do something about this form of child abuse. Here is a link to this story:
https://knewz.com/jennifer-wolfthal-children-abused/
“Children’s book author arrested for torturing, starving her children ‘because they wouldn’t stop sinning’”.
Personally, I know of no greater bunch of sinners than this phony criminal cult called Scamatology.
It seems to be OK to deprive the kids if You are a ‘religion’ rather than a soverign individual. And then probably only because they know they can.
At one point during this podcast, Leah says words to the effect, “This is your family. These are your children and this is your church. And your church is ripping your children away from you and tearing your family apart. This is why it is so difficult for people who are in this cult and people who are not in this cult to come to any kind of understanding.”
That is not exactly what Leah said. But it is as close as I remember. It is in the same kind of spirit of exactly what she said.
Well, NO SHIT! I guess that does make it kind of difficult.
Very powerful words, Leah. Very well said.
Before I heard Leah say that, I always thought that I hated this scum-sucking cult. But after listening to that, I now know that I hate it with a passion that glows red hot – hotter than any sun in this universe.
I have never heard anyone sum up with this fucking scam is about in a way that is more powerful than that. I was only involved with this cult for 3 or 4 days. But I started to cry when I heard Phil try to talk about his family being ripped apart. But he couldn’t do it. He started to cry.
I cannot advocate using violence to put down this cult. Remember how people stormed D.C. with weapons? Well, I cannot advocate anything like that – mostly because they arrest you and put you in prison for preaching that kind of shit. But also because violence will never end this sickness. It just makes the victims more firmly convinced than ever before they are in the right.
I just wish I knew a way to get the FBI and/or the DOJ to get their rears in gear and put an end to this madness. But of course, that is not the way it can ever happen.
This is a general comment, not related to this particular blog entry – In watching ‘Scientology and the aftermath’ it’s clear that Scientology has developed a genuinely diabolical way to keep people trapped in Scientology, but it’s pretty interesting to see how the belief that they are helping ‘save’ the world motivates people – a sense of mission, of purpose and community. What secular organizations are giving people those motivating feelings? How can those natural human instincts to help be harnessed for actual good? I’m pretty enthusiastically godless and while it’s good to see people wising up about religion and its’ dark side, I’m concerned that if they just walk away from one manipulative group that they’ll end up sitting ducks for a new manipulative group. Is it good enough to just walk away from a bad thing without going towards a better good thing?
It is pretty freaking amazing how much one idiot with his mind made up can figure out how to push around a whole lot of people. Just think back to people like Hitler and Atillah the Hun and Alexander the Greedy. I’m referring to people like that. People who just made their minds up and then wasted their entire lives making it come true.
I had the threat of disconnection held over my head like an ax. I left but was very quiet until every one I cared about was pretty much out. Had the sciobots believing for awhile I was dead. But found out how to push their buttons so they stopped contacting me again when discovered living. Disconnection is an evil tool when used by an organization. Keep trying to reach your loved ones. Keep your heart open and hope high.
The Hell of it is that I cannot believe Hubbard was some evil genius madman who conceived the entire notion of disconnection. I’m certain that idea has been around for a very long time. Hubbard just kept pushing and pushing and pushing until he got his way. Fucking lunatic!
Why did he keep on pushing? Because some psychiatrists hurt his poor widdle feelings when they said that he was full of shit and his ideas were worthless. Hubbard decided he was going to teach them a lesson and he sure did. But so what? What good did that do for anyone?
He promised this group of people would make this a better world. But now we know that was complete bullshit.
I think we need to erect some statues of Hubbard showing him with his head shoved right up his ass – right were it belongs.
Please forgive me. I am in a very foul mood tonight.
O/T. Several days ago, I noted that Hugh B. Urban has published a new book, “Secrecy: Silence, Power, and Religion,” that has a chapter on Scientology — “Chapter 6: The Third Wall of Fire.”
Incredulicide on WWP claims that chapter is Urban’s “May 2017 paper of almost the same name in Nova Religio, Volume 20 Number 4, pages 13-36, DOI: 10.1525/nr.2017.20.4.13.” The May 2017 paper is available for download for free at:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210129081816id_/https://smallpdf-production-files.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/dfdb49ff94784bfbbeb05112dfd836b0.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIA3I33L6ORYKHDV46N%2F20210129%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210129T081816Z&X-Amz-Expires=900&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEIT%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMSJIMEYCIQDbWhsPabieA2CSzk%2FDGrFFspjt42acH0IP98d7d%2Bz%2FygIhANl8OztvB5M8M9P9%2Bpd2T8DusuHEkEvP9%2F5HEgjf%2FHskKrQDCG0QABoMNzc0OTYzNDU4OTc5IgxWcf3MT4wgBH74RQkqkQO2%2B8B6xD7DqIGVG7oHbDpZL%2B%2B4lxRxUYZzmD%2FuSMmOF752R4qdUuMKQI6J99HkxYI6qOQxwtPdGYBO4QBB6oZDZJoIQ%2B9KB3wGgu4vIE%2F03UCVwR%2B6TL9Yj8bdxpd4Zpy%2Bmm8wJR0IBspR%2BZHE1k56UYlFI9G%2F7WoCPkywqsInW84ovvqKjDNzzdxuEfHGDdg3Nl3nD2qLhII7CSV3uVU74sH8heAqzxANfPC0WhKG4unL23s6sWVfKGAPrd9VC1TA5VnEzZVF1UEowFwYZ3YHjgSDtSL1GccRNodGVFFrylMfG9daiZkxTex7mLBkVGE4u5jYkvcENYER4ILTY%2BjxIGnJ3n5HSyNuswRlutPVKS7IIieo%2B8PXXPb94YCFPMA4ig1kXyCYcCfn00B8NF%2B4x19b8SR78Qyrm4DCskb3Y4ZLCxQEeQ1B3NJ9xvSDi3mn0ICVlhrvN%2BgUduJa9nAbwAafRdSZw8FdbIlN9fH84vWZpGBWFvB7qGr7j%2FoGSXrmxYz1crA857iNa%2F65DFkKQDCNjM6ABjrqAQkGVnV8mKJilAdfN92SQhxV4midyv5m7yN9pXPzcEYiVU0M87fG8GtIHj5flCrseYGlO0kcG0RW6d4JWRkT9RXQ%2F5Mtu7nVPhJoYoIDSavL9MglpkWmxRmOZD1%2BCVbjF4oFs8SqtTXyz9SYF1sqi0dMYyp7e93L6mGaex%2BCx6VHV25z4%2Bua4zlv%2FbyivESuMd1QyvKqcjJL1%2FktW5ZfHnWHa4T%2FGWniaac32lKXIo7CZxkQr%2Fa1E0akDfRj2G3BH15CzyDwO6N%2BjnCNFTsnlY1qEwLpm4aw0AlXZ4qgttjZpzeCHA%2Fv1twXoQ%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%3D%22The%20Third%20Wall%20of%20Fire%20-%20Hugh%20B.%20Urban%20-%20nr.2017.20.4.13-pages-1-24.pdf%22%3B%20filename*%3DUTF-8%27%27The%2520Third%2520Wall%2520of%2520Fire%2520-%2520Hugh%2520B.%2520Urban%2520-%2520nr.2017.20.4.13-pages-1-24.pdf&response-content-type=application%2Fpdf&X-Amz-Signature=05b709d2c339fdf4ee608f0170beaa5decc0564fa09d5f9f0c49ede4b5d4e665
And at:
https://booksc.org/book/72125543/66933b
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Thank you for the information about Hugh Urban’s new book. I remember reading that Nova Religio article in 2017. Tony Ortega gave the article an unfair review, as I recall. His review was not well received. I personally think that Tony’s blog is news oriented and he does not seem to be interested in the academic community. As I recall, Tony and his friends considered himthe expert on how OT VIII was marketed. He was not even interested in listening to me who is one the the few public OT VIII’s who recall the marketing! I was a member of Nova Religio’s potential authors and was eliminated after Tony’s rant.
Oh Can’t wait to hear this. Phil and Willie are two of the bravest. Their “Call Me” campaign was amazing and I feel very effective in shining a light on scientology’s disconnection policy at a time when most people on the outside of it were still pretty glib about “that wakey little innocent church of scientology.”
I also remember Phil’s story of their daughter calling them to let them know that he would be able to have contact with their son and her if they stopped. Phil’s answer was not until all families and those disconnected from would be able to see and talk with their families. Whenever I see a post by Phil on a blog, I will read it.
You are right Mary. It is an amazing story. They set out to try to re-establish contact with their own kids and in the end refused to do a deal with the devil for the good of everyone who has lost family members to disconnection. Phil and Willie are truly good people and it comes across clearly…