On this week’s episode, we talk to Aaron Saidman, co-founder of production company (IPC) that was brave enough to bring The Aftermath to air.
Tune in for some behind-the-scenes insight into the making of the program, how it came about, the impact it had and how the people involved dealt with scientology and their Fair Game.
I’m a 54 yr old survivor on every level, from a dysfunctional family which, oddly, seems allo to similar, in a dynamic sense, to what is described as the COS policies. I also have a lengthy background in social justice issues, having actually lobbied. I’m curious why there is no petition demanding congress, the FBI, Center for Abused and Missing Children, investigate. Please see the lobbying profile for COS at https://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Church_of_Scientology_US_Lobbying. Clearly, they’ve got several lobbyists doing some very strange work in high places. I checked Change.org and saw no petitions demanding a cease to their criminal behavior. There was a petition to ban A&E and some so-called KKK connection I didn’t bother to read. Where is the NGO clearing house that unites the various groups trying to help survivors of cults and brainwashing.
Who are the anti-COS lobbyists? Are there enough? Are they in every state too? These children are being taken out-of-state which tantamount to modern day child slavery. trafficking. That is a federal crime! Let alone the rest of the horrors. Children don’t have a choice. People need to get galvanized and be the kill-joy at family get-togethers, office parties, whatever, wherever, and get them to intervene. I literally believe that because people view them as wealthy enough to be a COS member, they must have it too good to worry about them – we’ve got marginalized people overflowing that need help. That is true. But, according to the FB page, there are well over 600k following., how many not, but believing it’s harmless? That means that at least 1 and every 700 Americans think this stuff is cool, and plenty more who don’t care. I’ve boycotted various high-profile celebrities, quietly, for years. Why? They need to be called out. Sorry if it’s using the same COS tactics, but doesn’t ‘fire with fire’ make sense at this point?
As a survivor of severe childhood abuse, it took a long time for me to get my education recently finished a degree in the study of systemic oppression of people, as well as a minor in holistic health, with an emphasis on the study of trauma and best practices for recovery. I was also a litigation paralegal and legal investigator before the c-ptsd (complex-ptsd), derailed my life. I have also spent the past 30 years volunteering with various charitable organizations, and creating my own drives for various causes. I also thwarted an attempt by a group in SF to bring me into their cult, which I’m 99% sure now was NXIVM. Their guru was called Vanguard. It took me 20 years to make the connection. I’ve also been sexually abused by men in positions of authority or power. I helped a young man set up his step father, who is now in San Quentin for his sexual abuse.
I’m literally trying to save my life, looking for something I can do while I isolate from friends and family who don’t know what to do for someone like me. I’m still trying to survive and this corporate Satan includes all the issues I’ve fought against wrapped up in the microcosm of COS. It all matters so, so much to me. So, I’m also offering to donate what I have, which is time. I’m trying to find my passion again. Hopefully, there is something I can do to help others – that would help me a lot.
Thanks for reading.
The above was cut off, mid-edit. Apologies. My sincerest wishes for your continued strength and success.
Sandra Lane
I want to hear about what was discussed when Aaron met with Scientology without Mike and Leah? Does anyone know where I can read about what Scientology raised during that meeting(s)?
Thank you Dave Fagan, Skyler, Gordon and all of you for the support. I need a trauma therapist that understands cults and the dysfunctional side effects one has from being in a cult. Anyone have any suggestions? I would like to get as many referrals as I can find so that I can interview them. I tried on my own but I am not finding anyone qualified or who understands.
Hi TbS!
You could check with Chris Shelton. He is in contact with a therapist (Rachel Bernstein) who understands cults, and he has also videos about it.
( https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chris+shelton+therapists )
It also can help to share what you experienced (if you want protect your identity, you can also change dates, names of locations, etc.)
I’ve read your comments. I’m ex Sea Org and experienced also what you described (also this: “The trauma gets triggered by life and it is crippling at times).
It took a while for me to digest all the (new) info, sort it out in my mind, get step by step rid of the ingrained indoctrination and find my equilibrium again.
Be patient with yourself — you will come through this. And… you are not alone! Many exes have experienced what you go through now, and you are understood.
It’s good to get info, but too much at a time can be quite overwhelming and then it’s better to divert one’s attention and to look for the good things in life and to enjoy the freedom.
How long were you in Scn (about)? (If you want to tell)
I wish you all the best, also with your family!
Thank you pluvo. I appreciate your post.
PS: Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m-aASzC410
Sensibly Speaking Podcast #208: “Scientology, Trauma and Recovery ft. Dr. Natalie Feinblatt”
Hey there Traumatized. If I ever refer to you as “TBS”, you will know that I am just trying to save on typing.
I would reiterate one excellent source for you to make this request is The Aftermath Foundation. If anyone can provide the info you need, that group would be the one.
Good Luck!
Dr. Natalie Feinblatt has a blog with direct link to services/therapy:
https://drnataliefeinblatt.com/
Great episode, thank you. May they continue to roll in every week!
Educational and entertaining 🙂 I listened to it twice.
I think when Aaron and Leah struggle with characterizing “The Aftermath” as ‘entertaining’, the word ‘engaging’ would serve them better. Just my unsolicited opinion.
Hey Smoore. You make a very nice contribution. If Aaron and others are going to speak out on this issue in the future, I’m certain they will remember that and use the word “engaging”. It always makes for a more powerful experience when people use the most powerful language they can.
I would guess that very few people care as much as I do about language. But I would encourage you to make these kinds of contributions whenever you like and I want you to know that there are some people who really enjoy and appreciate these kinds of suggestions. I can’t be the only one, after all. Can I?
On several occasions I have sent Mike some “notes” suggesting a word he might want to employ instead of the one he used. I remember that when he spoke of those four horrible women who attacked him in his wife’s doctor’s parking lot and screamed and screamed at him, I wrote him and suggested that he use the word “Banshees” when describing those women.
For anyone who may be interested – and I doubt hardly anyone has the same kind of bizarre love of language that I do, a “banshee” is a very old Irish term for some supernatural female creatures that come to earth and escort someone who has just died down to Hell while screaming and crying in the most horrible and loudest way they can.
I remember first hearing that word when I was about 7 years old and there was some Disney TV program that talked about the banshees coming down to earth to escort someone to Hell. That word has stayed with me for my entire life.
Skyler, some of us are very interested in using language more powerfully; even some who fell for the “Primary RunDOWN” and ‘study tech’. That last stopped me from enjoying reading for decades. Even now, I have to stop myself from looking up every word I don’t know I could give a dictionary-level definition of right then and there. Turns out I’ve got a pretty large working vocabulary My wife, a Poet, English & Literature professor for 20 years was pleased that she didn’t have to watch her language with me, as I am with her. At work, my manager brought in a dictionary so she could decipher my emails. Unintentionally, I often use unusual words to precisely express my thoughts. I always have, since Mom had this game:”How can we express that better?” Every word was fair game, even the “rude” ones IF that was the impact I wanted to create. As a result, I rarely use the vulgarisms, preferring the ‘nicer’ words
His other evident virtues aside, I especially approve of Aaron as someone who knows the difference between sympathy and empathy (the latter much-misused of late). 😊
Good luck Traumatized. Keep us posted.😀
Dear Peridot: Thank you so much for your kindness. I plan to stay tuned and connected to all of you guys at Mike Rinder Blog, the Tony Ortega Blog and the Ex Scientology Message Board Redux blog where I have also been lurking. There is a lot to read and listen to. I am even finding value on Mark “Marty” Rathbun’s blog in the beginning especially. This is when he was not getting paid by David Miscavige to create the confusion.
“Marty” Rathbun is a strange example of where scientology can lead someone. By all accounts, he was the most dedicated of followers, then the primary attack-dog, and now seemingly David’s lap-dog. I hope he can live with himself, as he does seem to be, at heart, a “good guy”™, maybe even a free-thinker, at times.
Great episode. I really enjoyed it.
Each time I realize more and more how incredibly effective what you Mike and Leah have been doing.
People’s awareness of what scn is has never been such and so definitive. And not just in the US. There is no way they can go back.
Dear Traumatized by Scientology:
You have a community here.
Luck is wished for you to get your family out.
Stay connected. There is sanity and fellowship available here.
If you are getting things out of the podcast, as well, find and watch the Leah and Mike “Aftermath” TV series.
For many of us, that is a mindblower. Every episode is a gem.
If you allow yourself to feel traumatized, scientology has won. Their only stock-in-trade is fear, and that’s getting pretty thin; people just aren’t as fearful of the organization as they once were because they’ve been losing pretty regularly in the courts. Now, there are too few beholden to scientology to keep filing all those frivolous suits they used to file to HARASS, not necessarily to win. They even seem to be running out of lawyers to do their (HIS) bidding. Either Dwarfenführer is getting a little mellower in his old age or his body can’t keep the frantic pace up any more. Thought I just had: Is Dave secretly bi-polar? (“manic-depressive”) or is it more what I used to think: drunken rages?
Jere Lull: I have no interest in worrying about how Scientology has “won” because I was harmed and traumatized by being a member of the Scientology Church. This is not about that. The trauma is real. The horrible feelings of betrayal after trusting this organization, a Church that lies, manipulates and decieves the followers. Perhaps you were not harmed by Scientology. Maybe you got good things out of it. Then you will have no idea how I and thousands of others feel. Nothing I got out of Scientology that was good could ever come close to making up the damage it has caused me. I will never be the same.
The trauma gets triggered by life and it is crippling at times. It is okay if you don’t understand it. I am accepting life on life terms and not everyone will understand the pain and suffering caused by finding out the entire Scientology Church is nothing but smoke and mirrors and is not real. This is similar to someone being raped and expecting everyone to understand that they will never be the same. The only difference is Scientology raped my spirit, not my physical body. It left scars. I will never trust any Church again. I have no belief in any God. I don’t trust any God. I won’t trust groups and most people. If you are lurking, you may want to re think your involvement in this heniously evil Church and get out until it is too late and you are dead.
Tram – I deeply sympathize with you and sincerely hope you recover fully some day. Recovery is a process and not easily measurable day by day. But over time, your scars will heal. It’s just a matter of time and also of maintaining a positive attitude.
Don’t let co$ screw up the rest of your life – it’s yours to enjoy and do what you will with.
Thank you Grumpy Cat. You are very kind. I appreciate the hope I am hearing that the scars will fade away over time. I believe that.
yes.
If we had known it was all lies we would not have joined.
He never made a clear, a theta clear, went exterior or demonstrated any OT powers. He was a narcissistic con-artist. We were just duped.
We joined because we found the answer, the way out, and purpose, and I for one, gave about 40 years of my life to lies. I was blinded in a cult the entire time, and had no clue.
So no, I’ll never be able to be rid of it fully.
How could we?
Every moment of those decades is “a scientology memory”
In the beginning of Out, I was just hanging on for deal life at the crashing and clanging in my head.
Hang in there.
the noise quietens with time and all these good people helping each other out of the betrayal.
Even the suicidal stuff eases.
Its a long interesting road out, I don’t think it really ends, actually.
I mean, those 40 years, they ain’t goin anywhere, are they?
Sorry if I offended, Traumatized. It was more a thought to myself about your nickname that escaped via my fingers.
Dear Peridot: Thank you so much for your kindness. I plan to stay tuned and connected to all of you guys at Mike Rinder Blog, the Tony Ortega Blog and the Ex Scientology Message Board Redux blog where I have also been lurking. There is a lot to read and listen to. I am even finding value on Mark “Marty” Rathbun’s blog in the beginning especially. This is when he was not getting paid by David Miscavige to create the confusion. After reading what Vicky Aznaran, former President of RTC, took that bribery money too. The trauma high ranking Scientologists experience creates people who cannot function so it is not suprizing they cave in to the bribes.
Dear Traumatized,
I have something to offer you that might (or might not, but it might) help you eventually get family members out of the Church of Scientology. I saw that someone referred you to Luis Garcia’s letter to Miscavige, and that is a great one too.
A couple years after I left the C of S, I wrote a blog that was addressed to the people I knew in Scientology. Of course, most of them haven’t read it but some of them have read it, and it helped some of them leave. I explained why I left. It mostly had to do with things similar to what Luis Garcia was saying in his letter.
My blog, along with Luis’ letter, explain why we left the church, but it is explained from a Scientologist’s viewpoint. At the time I wrote it, I was still a Scientologist, but I was no longer in the church. My viewpoint about Scientology has changed since then, but my blog still makes some valid points that Scientologists should see because they should realize that the way Miscavige runs the church is mostly in violation of Hubbard’s writings and policies.
I hope you find it helpful in helping your family leave the C of S. Read it and then use your judgment as to whether you want to try to get your family to read it, and if so, what would be the best time to get them to read it.
I wish you success and happiness.
Here is the link to my blog: https://davefagen.wordpress.com/
Dave Fagen, I am reading your story and finding it so constructive and helpful in continuing to sort out my own exit and un-programming. Thank you for the link. The way you write is simple and powerful.
To all here replying and responding to “Traumatized,” truly appreciate all this exchange, encouragement, and support.
To Traumatized, You can see you found a community here where we have the benefit of exchanging wisdom that is precise, and encouragement that is sincere (not a trap, nor a trick, no façade). Visit often.
Thank you Peridot.
Have followed you and Leah for years. Never been a member of the church but a huge student of sociological studies.
I have walked into a few churches out of curiosity. FLAG, Tampa, NY, Boston. And really never been greeted / treated positively.
If someone is a follower on social media of yours, follow the aftermath, comment, like, tweet, share, etc are our names added to say a database of repressives?
Keep up the good work!
Brendan
Brendan, I don’t consider any of those places churches, but they are buildings the organization owns. That no one tried to love-bomb you tells me that they’ve given up trying to recruit raw meat. I’d guess that too many have researched the group and are no longer taking the bait. I can well imagine how disheartening it would be for the staffs to keep failing every time.
O/T. Several days ago, I posted about the two new academic papers that I thought would be of the most interest to people here. In the interest of fairness and completeness, I thought that I should also mention that the journal Implicit Religion, Vol. 23, No. 2 (2020) has a total of eight papers and one podcast transcript about Scientology. The material was published online on 3/5/21.
https://journals.equinoxpub.com/IR/issue/current
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Implicit Religion, Vol. 23, No. 2 (2020)
Table of Contents
The Religious Studies Project: Podcast Transcription
New Directions in the Study of Scientology – Transcript
David G. Robertson , Carole M. Cusack , Stephen Gregg , Aled Thomas 89–101
Articles
Handle with Care: Reflections on the Academic Study of Scientology
Bernard Doherty 102 –128
Comments/Responses
Researching and Teaching Scientology: Perception and Performance of a New Religion
Stephen E. Gregg 129 –139
Toward a Study of ‘Scientologies’
Aled J. Ll. Thomas 140 –147
Apostate Memoirs and the Study of Scientology in the Twenty-First Century
Carole M. Cusack 148 –155
Scientology Studies 2.0, Utopia or Opportunity?
Massimo Introvigne 156 –166
Studying Scientology as an Anti-Democratic Institution: Suggestions and Cautions to Future Researchers
Stephen A. Kent 167 –174
Academic study of Scientology: The Scientology perspective
Eric Roux 175 –181
‘Do not dare speak of Scientology in France!’
Bernadette Rigal-Cellard 182 –192
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
The author of one of the papers, Eric Roux, is the President of the Union of the Churches of Scientology of France, Vice-President of the European Office of the Church of Scientology for Public Affairs and Human Rights, and represents the Church of Scientology at the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).
The author of another paper, Massimo Introvigne, founded the Center for Studies on New Religions (CESNUR) and is generally considered to be an apologist for Scientology.
Aled J. Ll. Thomas appears to specialize in Independent Scientology and the Free Zone. In addition to the paper noted above, Thomas authored the paper “Engaging with the Church of Scientology and the Free Zone in the Field” in the International Journal for the Study of New Religions, and the upcoming book “Free Zone Scientology: Contesting the Boundaries of a New Religion” to be published on 8/4/21.
As reflected by my comment several days ago and as indicated above, other authors are more critical of Scientology and express concern about the difficulty studying the subject.
Memorialized with screenshot on ESMBR at:
https://exscn2.net/threads/eight-academic-papers-and-one-podcast-transcript-about-scientology-in-implicit-religion-vol-23-no-2-2020.2772/
//
“Studying Scientology as an Anti-Democratic Institution: Suggestions and Cautions to Future Researchers
Stephen A. Kent 167 –174”
Good work Mr. Kent. In my world, Scientology was fascist, but I understand how you feel.
Hey Mike, is there a problem with the podcast feed? I could only listen to last week’s episode with Sarah Edmondson directly from the website, it wasn’t propagated through to my podcast app on my phone… could just be an app issue but thought I drop you a line to check 🙂 Keep fighting the good fight, you guys are doing a great job!
JJ from Australia
Hello JJ. I have had several problems trying to connect to the podcasts as well. But I found an alternative site and usually, one of the following sites is working. You have to wait though – usually until Monday afternoon or evening. Here are the sites:
http://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-scientology-fair-game-68514402
https://podcasts.podinstall.com/leah-remini-mike-rinder-scientology-fair-game/
If you don’t find it on one of those sites, it’s always a good idea to try to use Google. Maybe try to Google these two search strings:
“scientology fair game podcast”
“scientology fair game podinstall”
Good Luck!
Mike and Leah,
These podcasts are absolutely amazing. I feel so much better after I listen to them.
It is healing my shattered mind and soul from the betrayal after trust with the Church of Scientology. Getting out was so painful. Finding out how I got so tricked into believing all the rubbishy tech by LRH. These podcasts are helping me heal. Your work has helped tremendously.
It was heart breaking to learn LRH was a criminal con man, a real nut job. That just blew my mind.
It was devastating.
THANK YOU.
Now I will try to get my family out.
Wish me luck.
Traumatized by Scientology
Dear friend this is the best place to stay and share your story.
The scn indoctrination stays on like a coat and goes away over time but only if you keep informing yourself about what this cult it really is.
As for getting your family out my best wishes but allow me some advice. You know the cult still has a weird practice called disconnection.
First of all “help” yourself first by getting more and more informed. As said before (articles, podcasts, videos, aftermath series) but also researching elsewhere (Ortega’s blog is perfect).
You need to know and learn the contradictions of scn.
In a conversation with your family (I don’t know how deep they are if they are up to their necks or have doubts) you can’t say that the tech leads nowhere or that hubbard is proven to be a serial liar.
You would clash with the most ‘certain’ inner belief they have.
You have to aim for the obvious contradictions. Like ‘hubbard says you have to make money with scn and not fundraise but here they are using water pumps and there are consequences’.
Or ask if he has never disagreed once with hubbard or miscavige (or the SO) at least once. The answer will give you MANY insights to use.
There are many, try reading “Letter from Garcia”. You find it here.
Do well.
Backing up what Loosing My Religion says.
If you were in, then you know how powerful this “drug” can be. It can be mighty difficult to shake.
I have a friend in a different region who is capsizing in Scientology debt. He has upwards of a dozen different loans and credit cards. He cannot in any way afford these. He gives me the impression he has not picked up the phone to creditors for over six months. Now, he has pending lawsuits as a consequence.
He is truly drowning and over his head.
Even so, we caught up over the weekend and he mentioned he gladly attended an LRH birthday event at his local org. He is back in there and, I guess, going to re-permit all the staff there who applied on his behalf for all those credit cards he can’t afford to re-work “their magic.” It is confounding.
I guess for each, we have our own path that leads us to this scheme finally crumbling. I agree with Loosing My Religion. You need a strategy, and one that is thoughtful, light, and precise. It is delicate how one might present some things that cause a shift(s) in awareness and examination of this scene.
It is perhaps like that stacking blocks game called “Jenga.” You rather gingerly move something, one small bit at a time, to cause minor compromises in the strength of the whole. Then, it is up to the person to yank out the final “big one” that causes their entire stack of realities to come crashing down.
I think, if we try to “crash down” someone’s stack for them, the result can be annoyance, defiance, or even anger and betrayal. It is the EASIEST thing in the world to go dashing into the nearest org to be met by a ready staff member to calm you down, show you references about “The Critics of Scientology,” convincing you to stay away from that person trying to tell you bad things about Scientology.
Delicate work, but still I think it can be done. You have people rooting for you.
A good middle ground might be the December 31, 2011, letter by former Flag captain Debbie Cook. In it, she offers deep praise and reverence for LRH Tech and Keeping Scientology Working, but does she lay down the hammer hard on all the out of control nonstop fundraising. You can find that New Year’s letter here on Mike Rinder blog/website.
Thanks Peridot. My point was exactly that one. Strategy is a must. Otherwise it ends up in stuff like “you are critic…etc.”.
I am out since 16 years (I was in the SO) less than 3 years ago I started reading this blog and things started to fall in place. I am only today realizing how much I was fucked while I though to have everything under control. Scn is an implant. Yes the Debbie Cook email is another good one.
Traumatized declared:
“Now I will try to get my family out.”
From what I’ve seen of people trying to extricate loved ones, I suggest not trying TOO hard. The harder you push, the harder they’re likely to hold on to what seems to be the only stabilities in their lives. Best is to be there and to gently let them know you’re there for them, whatever may happen.
And don’t forget to send cheerful Christmas and birthday cards. They may or may not receive them, they may or may not respond, but keep the communication lines working as best you can.
Hello Traumatized. I would like to suggest you try and contact “The Aftermath Foundation”. Their address is: theaftermathfoundation.org.
If I made a mistake typing their address, you can always Google their name to get the correct address.
In case you don’t know about this foundation, they are dedicated to helping people who have left this terrible cult or who may soon leave. They provide all different kinds of support to people and if you contact them and tell them what you need and ask for their help, I would expect they will try to help you. What have you got to lose? Try it and see.
I have never heard of them helping people who want to try and get their families out of this cult. But I’m sure they have experience with this and can almost certainly advise you things you may do and just as importantly: the things you must not do.
P.S. Pls excuse me if someone has already made this suggestion. I quickly scanned all the posts but did not see any mention of The Aftermath Foundation.