We answered more “Listener Questions” this week. These are some of our favorite episodes and we really appreciate the questions people send in. This one was especially fun and I think you all will enjoy it.
We talk about the last chapter of Hubbard’s life which is documented in the Epilogue of Lawrence Wright’s brilliant Going Clear. This is an excerpt detailing what Steve Pfauth, one of the handful of people with Hubbard at the end of his life had to say.
We talk about Hubbard’s succession and mention the issue appointing Pat and Annie Broeker which Miscavige had recalled and destroyed:
We answer a question about “Silent Birth” in scientology. This is the Wiki entry that gives more information.
The US Supreme Court ruled in 1989 that payments for scientology services are NOT tax deductible (Hernandez v. Commission of the IRS) — this was then contradicted and overturned by the IRS exemption in 1993:
We also mentioned another case where a couple sought to have their payments to a school considered deductible because scientology payments for “training” are deductible. They were denied because they’re not scientologists so the unique deal with scientology isn’t applicable to them (Sklar v. IRS Commissioner) and the LAW is contained in the Hernandez decision mentioned above. So, Hernandez, a case about scientology deductions prevents non-scientologists from claiming deductions, but it is no longer applicable to scientology. Make sense out of that.
We mention the big lie scientologists were told that Hubbard causatively and willingly “discarded the body” at “complete cause” to continue his “OT research” “exterior” without the impediment and encumbrance of the flesh after “accomplishing everything he set out to do.”
David Miscavige, Pat Broeker and Earle Cooley recounted this story at the LA Palladium event that told the world Hubbard was dead.
These are some of the houses that have been built in anticipation of Hubbard’s return to the Sea Org — after all, the motto of the Sea Org is “We Come Back”:
“Bonnie View” — Hubbard’s home at the Gold Base:
The Whispering Winds ranch, Creston CA:
Tremontina NM:
Tuolomne CA:
Petrolia CA:
Rim of the World CA:
We also talked about the documents scientologists, especially Sea Org members, are required to sign, including one that stipulates you will be taken out of psychiatric care and that scientology can hold you against your will:
We answer a question about what happens when a scientologist dies — they are cremated. Hubbard expressly stated he wanted his body cremated.
This is the scientology Funeral Service.
And finally, the Oxford Capacity Analysis (OCA) personality test used by scientology to hook new people.
Another fantastic episode. I wanted to shed some insight on one of the questions asked about other podcasts. One listener asked why you haven’t been on highly popular podcasts such as Arm Chair expert. As an avid listener to that podcast, hosted by Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, it might be due to a conflict of interest. Dax is an actor who was on the show Parenthood for 6 years. One of his tv sisters was Erika Christensen who is an active Scientologist. During her episode they skirted the topic of Scientology but I think it was made clear to him to tread lightly. He frequently has expert guests on his show but he’s never directly tackled any specific cult. I would be shocked if he ever invited you and Leah on as guests but I would absolutely love to listen to that episode should it ever come to fruition.
I’m a little behind on the podcasts, so forgive me if you’ve already answered this, but what is the best way to approach a Scientologist? I know we can’t run up and say “You’re in a cult!” or just give them information as they will turn a deaf ear and deny it all. I also know we should make them be aware of the Aftermath Foundation so they know there is a way out, but was there anything that could have been said to you that would have rattled your foundation? Something that would make you think question your choices?
I’ve had thoughts that maybe we act interested and then ask if they get to spend a lot of time with their families, work reasonable hours or get paid fair wages. Basically chip at any cracks in their resolve. None of it seems like it would work though. Is the only hope getting the FBI in or the IRS to revoke tax exempt status?
During this podcast Leah mentions that she still looks at the clock and thinks “If I were still in Scientology I would be doing…x right now” It made me wonder what it was like for each of you when you first left? What was that first week of living without that constant demand on your schedule like?
Was it similar for the both of you leaving Scientology from different positions, one of a SeaOrg member and Leah who wasn’t part of the SeaOrg? Did you have a time of somewhat not knowing what to do to fill up the parts of your days previously devoted to Scientology activities? Mike, Were you just so busy dealing with the fair game aspects of leaving that you were just as busy as always? In addition to the relief to be away from the organization was their also a sense of loss? Of course there was loss felt for the people that you are now disconnected from, that’s not what I am referring to. I am more wondering if there was a struggle to figure out how you fit in the world without this thing that has consumed your life or was it just replaced with the mission to expose the evils of the group almost immediately? I hope this conveys my ask, I am struggling to find the right words for my question 🙂 I have a friend that left a cult and it was a real struggle for them to figure out how to move on and fit into the “real” world moving forward, and I think it may benefit people that are thinking of leaving a cult, or have just left one to know how you made it through those first few weeks of unventured territory.
I understand everyone has different political views, but dumping on President Trump is potentially offending half your audience (and supporters). There is no more a Trump cult than a Biden cult or Pelosi cult. The only reason a lot of Trump supporters became vocal and out there is because of what they (we) perceive as the Democrats constant, constant attack on ANYTHING he did. No president should have to govern thru that.
Like I said, I believe that both Republicans and Democrats support your fight against the cult. It crosses the lines between. Please don’t alienate those who support Trump.
This was inspired by the listener question you guys answered about the personality tests. I think its a genius question 😂 for your next round of listener questions: How does Scientology explain defectors, like you and Leah, who have reached clear? In other words, how is it possible that someone can be clear (and beyond) and not have achieved perfection? How can someone who is clear be an SP? How on earth does Scientology explain this? Love you both!
As a never in…I am wondering does ANY FORMER IN think that Danny Masterson is worried, concerned, scared that he might be found guilty & sent to prison?
Yes, I think he is shitting his pants. He KNOWS what happened. He also knows the documents exist.
Hope Danny Boy can afford a box of adult Depends……he’s already a piece of shit & is in good company with the load he’s gonna be carrying around in his pants!!1
Hey Danny Boy…..don’t drop the soap in the prison gang shower…………………
💥💥 Thank you for all that you do! I love the podcast and loved the TV series! I have two questions:
1. Does Scientology only accept able-bodied people? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person in a wheelchair or even a cane in any Scientology videos. And what if a member has a child with special needs?
2. What happens if David Miscavige dies? Is there a succession plan in place? What do you think will be revealed, or what will he take to the grave?
Thank you!
I have a question for one of your Listener question podcasts. Do you believe that David Miscavage and Tom Cruise actually BELIEVE the garbage they are peddling? Especially DM. It feels like he can’t possibly believe it. What about his direct underlings that, like you were, just living in fear daily. Are they still believers even though they are so put down? I know this is purely conjecture but I’d love you’re opinion. Thanks!
Noted, thanks
Hi Mike! Just wondering if you can tell us why The Fort Harrison is listed as a hotel on Google, but cannot be booked to stay at? Why imply it’s a hotel, and not just leave it as another random Scientology building? Thanks!
Great info.
For future Q and A, here’s mine:
a) Are current OSA and DSA staff trained on the procedure of what to do when Scientology members are discovered to have committed actionable felonies, meaning felonies that ought be reported and the perpetrators are Scientologists. Either in session or reports, what are the OSA and DSA rules?
a-1) Do the OSA and DSA info get sent up to RTC, and to whom, and do they wait until RTC gives the go ahead on what to do with the felony committing Scientologist?
What’s Mike’s opinion of what is going on with some speculation and big “if’s” in the Danny M case of rape? IF CC Int has papertrail material laying out what Danny has admitted to, WHO is supposed to share that info with police in CA?
a-2) What is OSA or the DSA person supposed to do?
b) Does OSA and DSA staff have cookie cutter programs to run a felony committing Scientology through? For example, what are the targets on such a program?
b-1) Does the OSA person or DSA have a program with a target for getting the felony committing Scientologist to go to the authorities and turn themselves in?
(I ask this last sub question, because in 1983-84 there was a staff member in the midwest in the US, and he admitted to Scientology that he murdered his mother. He saw his Ethics Officer and they worked out for the man to go to the police and confessed to the murder, and that’s what they did. RTC member Kevin True briefed us in Senior HCO Int of this incident, back when it happened.
The point, of my questions, to Mike mainly, are what does Mike think OSA and DSA staff ought to do, when they encounter Scientologists who confess to felonies which are still actionable.
Chuck Beatty
ex Sea Org 1975 to 2003.
LRH was wrong about a lot of things.
otherles, I can’t at the moment think of anything significant that LRH got right, other than his hypnotic techniques making many his slaves.Though they didn’t work as advertized, they DID work as designed.
Daily Dot: Scientology took 98 federal loans for $10 million during pandemic
The wealthy organization continued to procure government funds offered due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Eric Levai Published May 25, 2021 Updated May 25, 2021, 9:50 am CDT
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/scientology-ppp-98-loans-10-milion/
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
The Church Of Scientology has continued to rake in Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) funds long after the initial rollout of the Small Business Administration’s (SBA) 2020 federal bailout, collecting 18 loans this year totaling $3,548,695, according to data released in May.
The Daily Dot previously reported that entities affiliated with the Church of Scientology collected 30 PPP loans, with subsequent reporting revealing it received another 50 Economic Injury Disaster Loans (EIDL). That brings Scientology’s running total of pandemic relief to $9,958,435 from at least 98 different federal loans.
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
/
ANYTHING to top up Davey’s liquid reserves, right? I’m sure scientology’s workers were the beneficiaries—NOT.
Infuriating 🤬
Novel set in the world of Scientology: The Packet Dancer (Xenu’s Minions Book 1), by J.J. Davitt.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B086GWMM9F/
Kindle: $2.99
Free with Kindle Unlimited
Bankshott Books (March 26, 2020)
302 pages
Paperback: $19.99
Bankshott Books (March 26, 2020)
300 pages
* * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * *
Description
Barcelona, 2024. The Occupy Wall Street movement has risen again, and the protest rallies are serious enough that the CIA has deployed Agent Darien Blakely, an undercover agent disguised as a pot-smoking trust-fund bum, to keep an eye on things.
But Darien quickly learns that the protesters are the least of the world’s worries. The Xenu’s Resistance Army, a secret paramilitary army of renegade Scientologists, has risen with shocking suddenness to take advantage of the unrest.
Darien soon learns that the XRA has infiltrated his CIA handlers, and he’s forced to go rogue — joining forces with the protesters and their shadowy, wizardly leader, known as Double-X, in a desperate bid to foil a worldwide scheme that’s chillingly reminiscent of the Nazis’ “Final Solution.”
* * END DESCRIPTION * *
Memorialized with two screenshots on ESMBR at:
https://exscn2.net/threads/novel-set-in-the-world-of-scientology-the-packet-dancer-xenus-minions-book-1-by-j-j-davitt.3237/
/
The book sounds wild – has anyone read it yet? I can’t find any reviews.
Mike,
As I listened to the IRS review again, it occured to me that meeting in the middle might appease the government so they don’t look like the “bad guys.” For example, IRS should have rules that note: to retain your tax exempt status, every 10 years you must complete an audit to renew your status. If you pass, you are good; if not, you must wait 5 years and then re-apply. DONE.
Everyone would be in the same boat with no pointing of fingers at anyone. if you are legit, it should be an easy process every 10 years. Heck, the IRS might find even more violations they could easily shut down; in fact, this may be a plus to avoid the optics of picking on one group. This seems like a bipartisan approach that would not single out any specific group, religious or otherwise. Put the onus where it belongs – on the organization to prove they are worthy of this government perk instead of of on the government to show otherwise.
The question begs: “Are you doing what you are saying you do to legally receive IRS tax exemption? If so, prove it – if not, lose it. ”
Thoughts?
Nice episode and always very informative. Mike and Leah you are great.
Scn is statistics ONLY. Every single person they see is a potential number on a statistic. The stat and money are their gods.
I spent 15 years on staff chasing statistics 24/7.
Those friends who have been with me in the SO (and now they are out) even after many years have still from time to time nightmares of being back there – staff in the SO. Me too.
They sure love spending tax free donations on luxury mansions for a dead man.
obviously haven’t listened yet but silent birth? how about they F off and let women birth however the hell they want. if the woman wants to internalise it and keep it quiet, more power to her. but if she wants to scream the rafters down, go for it girl, you’re doing something incredible that I’d never be able to do!
you keep finding more ways to make me mad at this bloody organisation, congratulations 😀
When Hubbard died, we received a phone call saying that “Ron was dying”. The language was dismaying, and the Scientologist would call it “being effect”, which you wouldn’t expect from him. It made him sound like he was the pathetic, sickly man that he actually was.
We were called into the org and shown that video. Attendance was extremely impressive, much more than we would normally get at an event. That Flag Order was handed out. I distinctly remember the sections about the Broekers. I also remembered that Annie had a strange way of speaking, a halting hesitancy, that made me question her suitability as one of the highest execs.
I don’t remember the erasure of all this.
I need to contact you or Leah please.
Gail. In the homepage here above there is a “contact me” button to email Mike.
O/T. Academic Video: “An Analysis of Religious Extremism Through Memoir,” by Sydney Lewis. (Addresses the case of Scientology, among others.)
Sydney Lewis, Union College – Schenectady, NY:
An Analysis of Religious Extremism Through Memoir.
https://steinmetz.union.edu/abstract/analysis-religious-extremism-through-memoir
https://digitalworks.union.edu/steinmetzsymposium/steinmetz_2021/oralpresentations/255/
Direct Download Link:
https://digitalworks.union.edu/context/steinmetzsymposium/article/1597/type/native/viewcontent
* * * * * BEGIN INTRODUCTION * * * * *
Document Type
Open Access
Faculty Sponsor
Jennifer Mitchell
Department
English
Start Date
21-5-2021 11:00 AM
Description
This thesis investigates the physical and mental factors extremist religious organizations, such as the Westboro Baptist Church, Church of Scientology and Fundamentalist Mormonism use to decrease the chance of members’ departure from their institutions. These factors include familial relationships, physical and mental limitations, and restricted exposure to society outside of the religious organization. The following memoirs illustrate and expose these difficulties and how the female authors overcome these limitations: Educated by Tara Westover, Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape by Jenna Miscavige Hill and Unfollow: A Memoir of Loving and Leaving the Westboro Baptist Church by Megan Phelps-Roper. All three books detail their authors’ various journeys as they persevere through self-liberation in order to find peace.
All three female memoirists have to fight for the opportunity to pursue higher education and integrate into the outside world that they had been sheltered from for a majority of their lives. Westover narrates her childhood in the mountains of Idaho and her ultimate decision to leave her tyrannical household run by her radical-thinking father, Gene Westover. Hill reveals the history behind being born and raised in the Sea Organization of Scientology; and the tight-knit community of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, is detailed by Megan Phelps-Roper’s memoir. Each author faces different battles concerning life outside of their respective communities, but their pursuit of the knowledge that their religion shelters them from motivates all of their desires for more.
There are often connotations imparted on memoirs, with the expectation of a revelation for the author or even the reader, as they compare their life story to that of the author. These memoirs in particular are not predictable and do not shy away from the harsh realities the women were faced with in their communities as well as when they left. Even after traumatic events and dialogue are described, somehow the authors are all able to rise above the backlash they have faced and have the confidence that remains in their decision to leave. The Westboro Baptist Church continues to protest, Scientologists still practice invasive auditing sessions, and the Westover family is still adamant in their radical Mormon beliefs; life continues as before. Though Westover, Hill and Phelps-Roper may not be able to alter the beliefs of their institutions as whole, each of their departures caused a stir that cannot be undone, no matter what the authorities attempt. They are strong, independent and confident women who fought for what they wanted from the world and went on to educate that world through their narrative voices
* * * * * END INTRODUCTION * * * * *
/
I have read Sarge’s fascinating story before, but in reading it again today something jumped out at me. Why in the world was Hubbard doing his own laundry????
Mike, we need a Pat Broeker interview to clarify this.