This week we have a treat — we talk with the creator of Operation Clambake, and one of the earliest non-scientologists to go head-to-head with scientology in the fledgling days of the internet. We cover how he got involved and why and some of the key things that have happened along the way. If you listened to our recent episode with Tory Christman you will know Andreas played a significant role in Tory escaping scientology. He was also instrumental in the Jason Beghe video that went viral on the internet.
Jason Beghe, Tory Christman, Mark Bunker and Andreas
Jason Beghe’s video on Mark Bunker’s site.
For a bigger picture of scientology’s lost war on the internet, this Wikipedia entry contains a lot of information:
Who is Zenon Panoussis?
Who is Karin Spaink?
I just wanted to remark with regard to Stephanie‘s episode preceding this one, my ex-boyfriend also went down to ground zero to help look for people hours after it happened and he wasn’t with any group or anything. He had an EMT certification, but I’m pretty sure all he did is put on his EMT jacket go down there and go in. They were not being very careful about who they let in to volunteer so it wasn’t that restrictive. Everyone was just in panic mode and nobody was worried about preserving any crime scene. So it is possible individual Scientologists went into Ground Zero and nobody would have a record of it
Hey Mike,
You can tell Leah that her New York Rescue Workers Detox donos paid for real people to do the purif at Downtown Medical in Manhattan.
The thank you letters/success stories she received from Dolan, Broderick, et al, were real.
The money would have paid some back bills from the screaming creditors and staff would have been given a month’s backpay, when 5 were owed. I don’t know how much the chain of thieves from Keith at FASE to SO reserves scooped.
I would have sworn you toured Downtown Medical. If so, you would have been been invited in to Weasel Woodworth’s office to see the famous “blue stained towel” and invited to pop your head into the sauna to thrill the guys (mainly men) and hear their incredible stories.
We brought them in, told them a story of 911 dust and the magic of the purif.
We gave them hope, and loved bombed them through sauna and exercise and sauna and sauna. Rock and Roll and Camaraderie.
I don’t remember how much they said you gave, but they picked a few guys out (VIP type) and told them “Leah paid for YOU”.
I don’t know about your “award” from the FDNY. Stef “The Teeth” will unearth the truth. (not a gal that let’s go)
I spent years living on nothing but fervor, selling those (hilarious, fun, unique, hardworking) men and women…..
false hope built on a madman’s aggrandizement
I gave ’em a good night’s sleep and a fairy story.
so….I can’t help you with your conscience. My own is like wearing a coat of shattered glass.
Thanks for your comment.
Yes, I did tour the facility. Also I spent time and Narconon Arrowhead.
There is no question that people who did these programs felt they benefited. Someone paying attention to them, listening and a regimen that requires sleep and exercise can help anyone. As for the rest of it… not so much.
Really enjoyed the podcast; thanks to all of the participants.
Scientology: a cult built on Hubturds that operates as a crime syndicate, for the benefit of the lift-wearing, Macallan-swilling Homunculus.
Fuckin’ surreal, eh?
Hoping Mike can give Steven Hassan’s new podcast a promo? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan/id1603773245
I have a question for your next viewer questions episode. What happens when David Miscavige gets sick? Does he do auditing to keep up appearances? How does he explain this to the members in his inner circle?
Miscabbage is a self proclaimed “SuperHomonovus”, thus he does not suffeer the same ills and weakness as us mortal humans. Excuse me, us dilatante, meat bags.
Xenu.net is the site where I first learned more details about Scientology. Think that was in 2001
Until that moment I only knew scientology was bad news. I remember reading every three or four months what was going on with the cult
Then, in 2008, Anonymous happened
“this sounds insane, and it was insane!”
Yep.
Andreas is such a rockstar, as are Karin and Zenon.
Mike sounds like he has way more fun than the tired looking person in the photo below. That’s nice.
https://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/images/London0703/London_070331_05_l.jpg
And my Kobrin letter had misspelled URLs because of a well placed Xemu. I’m so pleased.
ooooooo i cant wait for this one, ive heard a few bits and pieces of operation clambake in reference but havent had the chance to go into great detail so im looking forward to this 🙂
also, jason beghes interview was phenomenal. it was just so real and so clear how he was right in the middle of a healing/understanding process himself so it made it so much more compelling to watch. it was one of the first interviews i watched and it hooked me good.
I’m having trouble downloading and streaming the episode. It times out. Has anyone else reported this?
Watch it on YouTube
https://youtu.be/JaudJoY4a5g
Thanks for the tip. It eventually downloaded. I listen when I’m walking, so YouTube wouldn’t help.
Great show!
Hearing about the multifaceted attacks on Scio’s ‘enemies’ jogged my memory about a story someone told me once:
These lunatics broke into this guy’s car one night and stole his U.S. Customs and Border Protection “Global Entry” Card (which also has one’s passport # on it), and tried to cook up a frame-job involving drug &/or human-trafficking likely with the help of a handful of “official” bad actors helping to grease the skids. But as is the case with any pack of lies, like a Jenga tower, all it takes is to remove the right piece/lie and the whole thing falls apart.
Here’s to more reveals in 2022, I’m sure there’s more to come! >:-D
What a wonderful trip down memory lane. Thanks so much Mike .
Wow! I know of operation clambake way back when, early 2000’s or something. I bet it’s gonna be a great episode.
Ooo. Can’t wait!
Jason Beghe’s comment, “Show me a mother fucking Clear” is Classic!
jason beghe’s entire interview was unbelievable, one of the first i watched when i first fell down the scientology critic rabbit hole, it sucked me in goooooooooood. thanks to him ive been obsessed for a few years now and still the shocking stories keep coming – like that of yours Mary, Amy scoobees, the headleys, tory chistmann, paulette coopers etc all pieces in the puzzle that will hopefully one day eradicate this cult for good.
I really look forward to this episode
Yes. I just listened to the whole first 1/2 of that interview with Jason and one of my thoughts on it is that anyone just out should listen to this.
Incredible interview and service he provided in doing it to help one recover from this cult
You’re right, and he was so obviously still processing and healing from what had happened to him, like he said it was like a kind of therapy for him because im sure there was no aftermath foundation then to help defectors they just had to wing it I guess. Im curious, what helped you process it all, anything in particular that helped you understand or even try to rationalise it all? Did talking about it on the aftermath and other similar ways help you to heal? X
The “processing and healing” is one thing. It takes a while but it’s little by little reading things, watching things hearing or watching many stories of survival. It’s peeling an onion for sure and one has to be ready for it. Like once reading an article where he talked about PTSness and calling bullshit on it because it’s just the human condition. It was an immediate boom, wow and years of indoctrination about PTSness lifted – it seemed- but I think there were many articles, books or stories that were chipping away at it. Going Clear was great and the Aftermath series was great not necessarily because of what I said and exposed in my episode but what EVERYONE said. So many different stories of so many different abuses and the exposure to the bullshit I was holding in place with my own cognitive dissonance. Like LRH was okay, it was david miscavige that was the tyrant. Nope. I’ve know and feel and see that LRH was not a good guy. Anyway, all that takes a while of peeling layers of onion.
Loosing my son? I will NEVER heal or recover from that. But at least I have come to no longer doubt whether or not I should have just held the cans and done what they wanted me to do just to have kept my son. At least now I know, it was good for me to leave, to stand up for what I believe and say “No.” And that came from my son Michael, who supported me in that and from my ex scientologist friends but the also took years.
Wow. I am in awe of you all who are fighting each day to survive this. I’m so sorry for you all and I just hope and pray for an end to this cult soon. The devastation it causes on so many levels is so clear to me as an outsider that it just baffles me as to how this entire system of abuse isn’t being torn down around miscavige and his cronies. You are all very brave people, I hope you really know that and I wish you all the best with your future surrounded by I hope people you love and who love you back just as much, people who are there for you and you them, people who you can trust and people who will show you how beautiful this world can be. With regards to your son, I have no words. As a mummy, I can’t imagine your loss and I send you all my love all the way from Ireland x
☺️💖🌟💫
It is. When I first heard that Jason Beghe had said that I was shocked, even thought I was already out. But since then, yes, as Hubbard himself describes a Clear, I too say, “Yeah, show me one!”
I wonder what will happen when all the materials go into the public domain. Isn’t Book One going public soon?
Also, there are plenty of media right now who do not enforce copyright. Regardless, Scientology as a money-making scheme for its traditional lines of revenue will dry up as these books become public domain. They are switching over to the humanitarian statuses for financial income, and the IAS membership, but really these amount of Simonism which should be and may be criminalized in some countries. If there is a concerted effort to criminalize or ban Simonism, perhaps this will outlaw their practices of buying statuses in many countries. Let’s see how they shift, but I don’t think their financial future is bright when the materials become free.
They also can’t justify the out ethics higher fees for membership/tithing. Straight charity (something for nothing is also out ethics in Scientology, right?)? That won’t keep them afloat except if they become an exclusive elitist ‘whale’ organization (which they are pretty much now). They could switch over to simply relying upon their land holdings and scientologist companies to donate funds, which I assume they already do, but I would think this runs into tax-exempt issue if most of their money is coming from for-profit ventures. Well, at least we know that the books and materials will become public domain soon, so we can start publishing these online. It’s a good win regardless of the outcome.
I meant Simony. The act of receiving something spiritual in favor of something finite (MEST), such as a gift or donation. I would call a humanitarian status a type of spiritual grade in Scientology, as Scientology links your progress in the real world (financial status, especially) to your overall tone or well-being in life. Therefore, those who can donate more are getting a higher spiritual acknowledgement – ergo: Simony.
Dianetics was published (and presumably copyrighted) in 1950. It won’t become public domain in the United States until 2046, at least under current copyright law. Whether the Church of Scientology remains by that time is the question.
Ok, I must have been confused with the 70 years thing after the author dies. Thanks for the clarification.
I did find this one copyright law clause: “If you plan on using a work that was published before 1964, you should research the records of the Copyright Office to determine if a renewal was filed.” (Must be some ambiguity, and if you have an attorney with some time it may be worth it to research)
i would assume the “church” would just re-edit/re-release all materials again claiming typos, or other faults with the work and recharge for them – they are like a broken record really
They will absolutely do this, but if the course books can be bought on eBay or Etsy – they atleast have to deal with the public domain issue. I am sure they will call those books ‘ENTHETA’ if they are the public domain versions, as they contain editing errors / mistyped or mistranslated words, or some other B.S. (a quick invalidation sentence).
Actually, I believe they already have a clause on the routing forms that say that the materials must have been purchased at the org. Regardless, the books being in the public domain will hurt them in other ways by opening Scientology to public interpretation, open citation, derivative works, etc.
If they put the same amount of effort into actually helping the human race as they do trying to profit from it imagine the good that could be done with that amount of drive/money/resource. It’s sad
It won’t work ,as the original editions shall be our of Copy right restrictions.
Any one can publish ,edit and interpret it as per copy his or her wishes.
Good gawd, I had almost forgotten about Operation Clambake, but it was one of the first critics websites I stumbled across way back when.
I got out of the cult in the late 80s after Hubbard dropped his meat sack. I had just finished up a training package by completing the ‘academy levels 0-IV’. I had been hitting it hard and heavy and really needed a break. I just walked away from the org and used voicemail tech to avoid any phone calls by those trying to ‘recover’ me. I opted for my own definition (the real definition) of the word recover and started to get some space in nature by taking up sea kayaking. That was truly liberating and much more fun than sitting in the course room all weekend reading, listening to Hubbard on reel-to-reel tapes, endless word clearing, doing demos and clay demos, doing TRs and then getting checkouts from fellow students or course supervisors. Ending it all after every day by sharing wins and endless clapping and hip, hip horraying.
After a short time clearing my head by being away from the cult, I decided to really get away by moving to Alaska for some work I was offered. That really cleared my head and it was the best move I’ve made in my life. After many years, and many moves around the state, I was just chugging along enjoying life when the cult tracked me down. I started receiving endless phone calls and mailings from at least 12 different orgs and missions. I WAS PISSED.
That’s what led me to verture onto the internet to see what was going on in the wider world with scientology and to see if there was some way to get the phone calls and mailings to stop. That is when I stumbled across Operation Clambake. What a treasure trove of information. I dove down that rabbit hole and from there I found Ortega’s reporting when he was still at the Village Voice. I lurked for a quite some time until I got up enough courage to finally post something. Then I found a few other favorite websites, Mike’s being one of them. I can’t tell you how liberating this has all been. I always feel better whenever I can share some experience I have had and hope it might actually help someone else out who may be lurking. If you haven’t done so yet, I highly recommend the Jason Beghe videos that are mentioned here. Jason isn’t for everyone. He pulls no punches and doesn’t mince words. If you like your whisky straight, not mixed in some pantywaist, candy ass sweet cocktail, Jason is your guy. Enjoy. I might even give them a listen once again myself.
I wonder has the pandemic and the fact many people couldn’t travel, had to work from home, had to isolate, couldn’t meet in certain numbers in enclosed spaces etc affected the ability for the COS to keep the parishioners brainwashed? im sure their powers on influence took a hit when not being able to control the people up close and personal? just a thought/hope
The doctrine of Scientology (as I understand it) contradicts the three axioms of Objectivism. Existence Exists. Existence is Identity. Consciousness is Identification. In the doctrine of Scientology (as I understand it) the reality that we perceive in unreal. This contradicts the first two axioms of Objectivism. In the doctrine of Scientology (as I understand it) Consciousness precedes Existence. This makes every Objectivist an automatic opponent of Scientology, and thus a Suppressive Person. In my opinion there are more Objectivists in major metropolitan areas in the United States than there are Scientologists worldwide.
Interesting. Why would you bring up objectivism though? I feel like I’m missing some context.
These issues were covered in the PDC tapes which Hubbard delivered in the 1950’s. Hubbard ends with a grand contradiction in regard to his theta theories as you may recall. Hubbard always maintained that the thetan was “nothing”. But he does contradict himself at the end when he claims that the thetan has a small amount of mass. So the thetan goes in an endless circle. Hubbard’s issue was popular in most religion before WWII. Hubbard never explained his views on quantum physics for example. There are many, many reasons to abandon Hubbard as he was dumb and simple minded. Any kind of consciousness in Scientology thus retains a beginning and an end. This places the religion in the trash heap.
Ayn Rand’s objectivism is as much of a cult as Scientology, quite frankly. Even you bringing it up in this thread is demonstrative of that.