This is the report on how scientology is “making planetary clearing a reality” from the MODEL-nearly double SH Size-Ideal Org in Tampa.
This is the best of the best. Where all Flag public go to hide from the FSO regges, where the children of the “huge” scientology field are sent to begin their careers of dedication to the church by joining staff, where you can theoretically get your OT Levels for free at Flag by just joining staff there and where all the rejects from Flag are sent to do courses. Yes, that org – propped up by Flag and held out as the shining beacon of Class V organizations that stands above all others.
Here is what they have accomplished since March of this year — and they are damned PROUD of it.
FIFTY SIX Clears (about half of them staff…).
Yes, 56 in 9 months. Or 75 a year. Woohoo.
The population of Tampa Bay is just shy of 3 million. The population is increasing at 2% per year. Unfortunately for scientology, that is 60,000 people. Yes, 800 times more than the total clears made in a year by the best org in the world.
To put this another way, Tampa Org would have to increase its production EIGHT HUNDRED TIMES — and STILL NOT MAKE A DENT in the 3 million current residents of the area (and realize I am not including all of the area Tampa Org is responsible for, all the way to Naples in the south and Tallahassee and Pensacola in the north (we will leave Jacksonville and Daytona to Orlando “org”).
There is no new org opened in Florida since the 70’s. There are no new missions. Though some have CLOSED DOWN.
This is how scientology is “making planetary clearing” a reality.
There is absolutely NOTHING happening anywhere in scientology that demonstrates they are having any impact on society whatsoever. The only thing they can do is give cliche’d catchphrases claiming how much they are expanding/growing/taking the world by storm, and offer up “statistics” that everyone is supposed to swallow without thinking (and most do). Those statistics are so infinitesimal to not even register on any scale of anything and yet they appear to be so proud of them.
It would be like someone getting all excited and telling their family they are on the way to becoming a billionaire because they made 1c. Technically, it’s a true statement. But in context it is stark raving mad.
Welcome to the world of scientology.
well if they were as Big as they think they could sell there programs for less money but honestly I’ve never seen any of there places & been Fla many times & other States,they need that Tax exempt Revoked imo.
Imo, Co$ is the result of the founder’s Dunning-Kruger effect made manifest, packaged into a para-military corporate structure with organized crime ethics, then delivered, monetized (and weaponized) by two stunningly adept Cluster B personality type males.
It truly gives the old koan “if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” fresh meaning.
Well said except one isn’t aware of these things back in the 70 and 80’S.
With the Internet as it is, it’s much easier to look up what you are interested in.
I’m personally blown away by how articulate x scn’s are as I would of thought that anyone who joined would have to be less then?
(Sorry guys but look at it from an outsider peering in)
I however do not feel that any longer. Your bank was blurred.
There is a small chance for this Church to become a group that achieves benefit to all mankind.
And the only way that I currently see to guide this Church to the benefit of mankind is to use the good that is within the subject towards the greater good for all.
It seems a shame to waste these 66/7 years of hard work by so many hard working people that have put their life on the line for this purpose of improving the world that we all live in.
Rather, surely, there must be a way to turn this subject to the betterment of all? All the hard work that Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, every Scientologist existing or ex, even David Miscavige and LRH themselves have invested into this subject? SO MUCH WORK!!! All of these people!!! Surely we can guide this group to good and the betterment of mankind which is why people usually get involved in the first place?
Resolving this subject is what Mike and Leah were talking about in Episdoe 7 of the Aftermath……. I agree!! Let’s resolve this once and for all!!!
This Church is a big entity that has been created and spreads the world. There are ways to guide it to a better place so that everyone, involved or not, is happy and the world can truly, truly start to hear good news about this subject.
There are simple solutions to this subject.
It is clear in my head as to how we solve this so that everyone ends up smiling, including the individuals that have had their lives shattered, the disgruntled ex Scientologists, the Sea Org Members that continue to work all the hours of the week, the public that have donated thousands and the general mankind at large………….
This group will change. They already are changing in some ways for the better, in other ways for the worse!
The more communication, the faster the change will occur.
Mike Rinder is leading by using open and honest communication. Communication, true understanding and compassion combined with some love will bring about the Aims of Scientology faster than any other tactic.
The first thing is to acknowledge that this group created by L. Ron Hubbard CAN rapidly evolve for the better and that there is a small hope that it COULD be a good group that brings about goodwill to all……… taking honest responsibility and becoming what we all hoped it could become……. Isn’t that why people got involved in the first place?
In time, lets just agree that there COULD be hope of improvement where the negativity is gone and forgiven and there is hope of bringing relief and hope to all using the good that is contained within this subject.
That is what I see can be a reality. If we talk about this with love and compassion and deep intention to care for others then there is hope that all our work and our hard efforts throughout the years, will be something to be proud of.
Every person involved with this subject has a story, has value and has wisdom. Let’s guide this energy to a resolution where we can all smile about this subject………one day.
“It seems a shame to waste these 66/7 years of hard work by so many hard working people that have put their life on the line for this purpose of improving the world that we all live in.”
I believe it would be a waste to forget what Mike and Leah and many others are trying to achieve.
If the clear number that is given out at the time of going clear has any significance, then Dave’s stats from 1998 to 2016 are HALF of what they were from 1980 to 1998.
1980 Clear #20,089 Kirstie Alley
1998 Clear #50,000 (name unknown)
2016 Clear #65,480 Maru Paniagua
18 years (1980 -> 1998) about 30,000
18 years (1998 -> 2016) about 15,000
Great numbers. What is the source of these figures?
Hi Mike,
Kirstie’s Clear # was found at the link below and was evidently published in Auditor 164.
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/k/kirstie-alley.html
The 50,000 also came from http://www.truthaboutscientology.com.
The number for Maru Paniagua was posted to her facebook page and Tony mentioned it back in May of last year.
http://tonyortega.org/2016/05/29/its-a-miracle-scientology-put-more-than-10000-people-in-these-1000-chairs/
Do you happen to know how the Clear #’s work? I mean since so many people have had to “redo” going Clear do they keep the same number, or do they issue a new number? It seems to me that these numbers are significant proof of how Dave’s stats have fallen.
Just want to say THANK YOU for all of your many efforts to stop the abusive practices in CofS. Wishing you and your family peace and love.
This site is good for early clears: http://scientology.wikia.com/wiki/Clears_List Mary Sue Hubbard was clear #208.
Interesting – some familiar names on that list: Reppen, Feninger, Ruth Minshull (oldies will remember her books – the only ones that made any sense out of the Fatman’s blatherings and which of course were subsequently banned), and of course Kingsley Wimbush…
Most interesting was a Clear No. 339 SNOOKY WEISS… Hmmm… a Snooky from New Jersey, LOL
I wonder where they all are now…
Can you still be in and not do courses ?
Cathy, that depends on what the definition of “in” is. Seriously.
Mike wynski,
Not an employee but someone who lives in their own house ?
Hey Mike I have a question.. do know or think that the church uses hackers to get into people’s computers or phones????
See the Saldarraga case in Federal Court in NY where he was convicted of hacking me and Tony Ortega. He was hired by scientology to do so.
Do you mean oscar? Pilar was in the cmo in cw for a long time. I worked with her for years. Oscar was around the FLB quite a bit in the mid to late 80’s. He drove us to Busch gardens one time in his car with diplomatic plates. He was a wild card when I was in. Pilar also had money on accounts and would be getting auditing quite often on public lines.
No. Completely different. Reported on in NY Times and Ortega blog
Ahhh ha thanks for the info. That for sure had not added up.
When will Louis Theroux’s documentary air in the US? I was told January, but January is here and I don’t hear anything about it.
Tony announced it last week I think, sometime in March?
I remember that years ago and in some other forum, there was a discussion about this. If I recall correctly, some old-time insiders said that orgs had been issued blocks of clear numbers but did not necessarily use all of them, and that there may have been some numbers used twice as well. So it’s hard to know just how much clear numbers track clears made. And it would not be surprising if the system has been left with some inaccuracies or is even being gamed, to make things look better than they are.
Putting aside the question of whether or not new clear numbers are being used (perhaps just on the internal ledgers) when people re-do “clear,” I still don’t think that the number of clears being made is quite the same measure of Scientology’s activities as it was with the ones that used to be made. Early on, clears made were often people fairly new to Dianetics and Scientology, who were on a trajectory to continue on further. How many of the clears being made in recent years are long-time members and staff who had been stuck without much progress or processing for a long time, and who are only finally getting even that far, perhaps as a result of the efforts being made to keep something going on in the empty orgs?
Wonder how many of the total 65,000 “Clears” have routed out, blown, disconnected and otherwise left. Is it accepted dogma that blown ‘clears’ are no longer clear?
Greta Van Susteren tweeted today, “We have a very solemn obligation to report the news.”
Tempted to ask her, “How many Scientologists are currently active worldwide?” Just as a starting point.
And, as a serious journalist, she would be obligated to answer truthfully. Right?
Right as rain!
Here’s a recent SAT question:
The Gestapo is to Hitler as blank is to Miscavige.
Many of those Clears are probably retreads, so it’s a false stat. Like everything else of theirs.
WOOAAH!
Davey’s desperation in trying to keep HIS “religion” from doing an oozlum bird is a sight to behold. Owning masses of property and other hard assets is all well and good but without bums on seats it’s all just show and tell. Failure is guaranteed
I’m still trying to get rid of a headache that started after perusing Mr. Ortega’s site and seeing “We packed ‘infinity’ into twelve calendar months.” Why, oh why, did they put infinity in quotation marks…oohh, I get it it’s another brilliant piece of Sherman Speak that signifies nothing at all but sounds good. Can someone explain how you put infinity into a finite number without their head exploding, because at one stage I thought I was in the opening sequence from Scanners.
Sure, just divide any number (real or imagined) by zero…..
I’ve never been in the Co$, though there was a time 40 years ago when I checked it out. nothing came of that.
Can someone tell me in plain language what becoming “clear” does for a person? So far the only verifiable effect that I can see is that it made Tom Cruise taller.
It’s a hard thing to point down, because the Church seems to redefine it constantly. In Hubbards original version it was a panacea that cured literally EVERYTHING, eyesight problems, memory problems, what he perceived as sexual deviancies – They were all cured by going clear.
Cure-all’s cure nothing is a motto I enjoy.
The current version talks about “beingness” and “releasing fear and anxiety” more than any direct ludicrous claims of bodily help. It’s basically mumbo-jumbo pop-psychology from the 50s, repackaged with some ideas stolen from Crowley about the nature of reincarnation. What it does in reality is cost you 183k to go through years of bizaare “treatments” that will likely do nothing for you.
Some, like author Jon Atack, claim there is a hypnotic euphoria involved in the auditing (Counselling) practiced by Scientologists, giving a fleeting ‘high’ that the practicioners try to regain by undergoing more services. I don’t know about that, I am not an expert in hypnosis nor have I practiced Scientology auditing.
For more information, try this link – It is author/journalist Tony Ortega going through every step of the “bridge to total freedom” and discussion each step along the way, including what they expected to achieve.
http://tonyortega.org/up-the-bridge-our-step-by-step-series-on-scientologys-bridge-to-total-freedom/
That was higher heels on his shoes. Clear does nothing for anyone. It’s a hoax.
From a “clear”.
How I am today – stable, confident, prosperous,happy – didn’t come from clear/scientology. To the contrary.
James Hill
In a nutshell. There is NO verifiable data that “going clear” does ANYTHING beneficial for a person. It is known to drain bank accounts though. THAT has been verified.
Athem. A Ponzi and a pyramid are one and the same. What would make it a true pyramid would be if prospective members were asked to give a small fee, maybe $20, to the person who took them to the Org. If five of them join and bring in fresh meat, you’d get to keep maybe $10 of this for being a “sponsor”, and if those people join, you rise in stats and become, say, a $50 ‘mentor’, while the fresh meat moves up to being ‘sponsors’ themselves. At each stage, you’re giving the higher-ups 90% of your collected ‘contributions’, with the understanding that when you become a ‘Master’, or on top of the hill, you’ll be awarded the rest of the money. Since this (assuming 7 levels of ‘mastery’) amounts to a quarter of a million dollars, the incentive is high — after all, you ‘only’ gave $20!
The ways of playing with this system are many: first, the upper echelons are often fake names so that ALL of the money is going to one person. Second, it’s easy to foster an atmosphere of trust (through games and inspiring speeches) where the money is less important than “people helping people”, or “the Secret” or something like that. Thirdly, it’s since in any given community, there just aren’t that many people willing to give, you can make a rule that each level is responsible for making up the full amount. That is, if a ‘sponsor’ cannot find 5 people, they can be fined for however many memberships they fall short.
Inevitably, without players rejoining, the system breaks down: whoever’s on top flees with the money, and everyone’s out $20.
Whatever Scientology is, it is not a pyramid.
teleny, I disagree; Ponzis and pyramids are not identical.
from http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/ponzi-vs-pyramid.asp —
What is the difference between a Ponzi and a pyramid scheme? By Arthur Pinkasovitch
A:
Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes share many similar characteristics in which unsuspecting individuals are fooled by unscrupulous investors who promise extraordinary returns. However, in contrast to a regular investment, these types of schemes can offer consistent “profits” only as long as the number of investors continues to increase. Ponzi and pyramid schemes are self sustaining as long as cash outflows can be matched by monetary inflows. The basic difference arises in the type of products that schemers offer their clients and the structure of the two ploys.
Ponzi schemes are based on fraudulent investment management services – basically investors contribute money to the “portfolio manager” who promises them a high return, and then when those investors want their money back they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors. The person organizing this type of fraud is in charge of controlling the entire operation; they merely transfer funds from one client to another and forgo any real investment activities.
On the other hand, a pyramid scheme is structured so that the initial schemer must recruit other investors who will continue to recruit other investors and those investors will then continue to recruit additional investors and so on. Sometimes there will be an incentive that is presented as an investment opportunity, such as the right to sell a particular product. Each investor pays the person who recruited them for the chance to sell this item. The recipient must share the proceeds with those at the higher levels of the pyramid structure.
There are two additional important factors to consider: the only guilty party in the Ponzi and pyramid scheme is the originator of the corrupt business practice, not the participants (as long as they are unaware of the illegal business practices). Secondly, a pyramid scheme differs from a multi-level marketing campaign which offers legitimate products.
Mike, your shirt-cuff calculations completely overlook an important aspect of the reality of Scientology’s current expansion 🙂
The death rate in the US is 8.2 per 1,000 population, and over 10 in Florida largely due to the older population of retirees. If you take the oft-cited figure of 10,000 Scientologists in the Clearwater-Tampa-St. Petersburg area (a “workable” number for this purpose), and assume that any who die are likely to be adults who have already made it to clear, Scientology would be losing around 80 – 100 clears per year in the area just to death. So that number of clears being made would not even be at a replacement level to keep Scientology static, much less to keep up with population growth (up 44% in the area since the year 2000). And that’s not even considering how to account for the exodus of members who have left and become SPs – are they even still “clear” if they “blow” official Scientology?
I am shocked, just shocked, that you did not standardly apply population statistics to truthfully evaluate the nature of Scientology’s unprecedented “straight up vertical” expansion under the leadership of COB Capt. David Miscavige. Which is, typically, that when you look deeper, it’s worse than you think….
To quote Steve Martin: Excuuuuse me!
I just have to say Mike, I loved the brevity and comedy of your response. It said it all.
Ok .I’m going to say it because I haven’t seen anyone else say it. DM….. You’re Short! Vertically challenged! A small man! 5’1″. In more ways than one. Oh and you’re creepy looking.
Sorry. That was immature. That was a knee jerk reaction to the frustration I feel when watching the show. Its a great show!!! I just hope that the people of Scientology wake up and stop letting this cult ruin their lives and families.
Stark raving mad says it all for me too Mike.Another concise illuminating piece.???⛓?
I’ve been interested in learning more about religious groups and alternate religions for several years and to me it seems like several groups have some similar traits, such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons, and Scientology, but by far the least helpful to society is Scientology. This is why:
Charitable efforts: The Mormons rate a ‘Good’, as they run many charitable programs, for anyone who is needy, not just their own group. The J.W.’s rate a ‘Neutral’ as they do pretty much nothing charitable, but Scientology rates a ‘Bad’ because they lie about what they do and actually have no real charitable efforts: they do not pass out food and blankets to the homeless, or help shelter or pay bills for families in crisis (the Red Cross will help needy families with these things) or help youth (the YMCA runs free after school care programs) or anything similar, and despite showing photos of the ‘yellow shirts’ in other countries, they pretty much just get in the way of legitimate rescue efforts and pass out ‘way to happiness’ brochures.
The Scientology goal is to “help the able become more able” – not to help the less fortunate. Needy, “lower-toned” people (1.1’s) should have no rights… remember L. Ron Hubbard said society should “dispose of those people quietly, and without sorrow”.
Add to that: Jehovah’s witnesses will stop knocking on your door if you ask, with no retaliation, as will the Mormons and other groups, while Scientology will bombard you and follow you with mailings and calls, and while other groups are expected to tithe 10% or whatever of their income (if they are able), they don’t put extreme pressure on their members with extraordinary demands for money as Scientology does (such as taking out new credit cards, mortgaging your home, selling your vehicle, etc.) and proceed to guilt-trip you and harass you if you can’t.
No organization likes being portrayed badly in the press, but Scientology has a history of taking actions against those who disagree with and oppose them, as LRH said of their ‘enemies’ (which include journalists writing newspaper articles): “they may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967 and
Hubbard also said: …”People attack Scientology, I never forget it, always even the score. People attack auditors, or staff, or organisations, or me. I never forget until the slate is clear.” – L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959 and: “If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 15 August 1960, Dept. of Govt. Affairs
Uh.. whaa? “Manufacture” things against them? Scary.
L.R.H. also said: “The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”- L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955
So this is not a group I would personally want to have an association with or be a member of. Anyone can make up their own mind, of course, but I wonder, after reading these things… how can anyone view this group as “ethical” when their founder said such things? Why would anyone who believes that they themselves have a moral character, good intentions towards others, and a kind heart, want to join this group?
I have lived in Clearwater, Fl. for 16 years and for the FIRST TIME, EVER, I saw a commercial on Fox 13 this morning for the CoS!!! My husband and I were shocked!! It looks like now, more than ever, they are attempting to pull in new recruits…
Really what they are attempting to do is shore up the certainty of the locals who are still willing to identify themselves as scientologists. Can you imagine how rough it must be? If anyone knows you are a scientologist they are asking you about the show.
So, they are told “the squirrels are screaming because we are expanding” and their “proof” is there are ads on TV. MUST be expanding if there are ads on right? Just like they MUST be expanding if there are new “ideal org” buildings. Nobody would buy buildings if they were not needed, right? Nobody would pay for advertising if it didnt get anyone in, right?
Wrong on both counts. Miscavige would.
An ad on TV!? Holy Ray-Guns of Xenu! You know what this means? Hurricane Leah is working! Stats have crashed even more than before….. I didn’t think that was possible. GO LEAH, GO LEAH, GO LEAH!!
AAAROOUGH!
A couple of dirty little secrets about Tampa “Ideal” Org:
When they were on the run-up towards going Ideal, much of their slave labour to get ready for their opening came in the form of foreign outer-org trainee staff who were supposed to be on the TTC at Flag training for their respective AOs and orgs. How do I know this? My daughter and fellow TTC trainees training at Flag for the never-gonna-happen-in-a-million years AO Africa, along with a host of other trainees from the likes of Russia, Mexico and other countries were being bused to Tampa Org every day for months to work on various special projects like handling CF etc.
Last year, Tampa was in deep sh*t with falling staff numbers and someone had the bright idea of recruiting people (both staff and public) from South Africa. Yep, our failing, struggling Ideal Morgue in Joburg lost a couple of it’s own when they were lured with Earth, Moon & Stars promises if they came over to work at Tampa org. Grandiose promises were being made of amazing “minimum wage” earnings with free board & lodging, guaranteed bridge progress etc. For South Africans this was big bait considering the (then) 16:1 exchange rate and the only bridge progress anyone on staff here makes is if they walked across one on the way to work every day. (I have a sneaky suspicion that a couple of folk in the picture accompanying this article are, in fact, South Africans, but couldn’t quite make out the graphic when I tried enlarging it). I know of 9 people who took up Tampa’s offer but I don’t have current information of how many remain (I do know for certain 4 of them are still there).
Fascinating info Shelley.
In scientology, nothing is ever at it seems.
This is the ONLY org that can promise “room and board” (as there are always enough Flag public trying to make amends or suck up to the MAA’s or IAS) and “you can go up the Bridge” — though most staff go nowhere as they cannot travel to Flag for their services every day and it is “for the upstats.” As for the “minimum wage” – that is just a flat out lie. They probably get paid better than any other Class V org, due to being the remora on the Flag whale, but still nowhere close to minimum wage.
NOt much of a “model” for all other orgs to follow. Bet you Dallas isn’t having a lot of luck persuading anyone to move there from South Africa…. let alone Bogota or London.
Those OTs putting up South African staff must be regretting it. I heard of one of those South Africans who went there barely six months ago, got a young girl (18) pregnant and they had to get married pronto. I’ll bet that was more of an ethics programme than they’d bargained for!
Falsehoods (promoted by Scientology) are simply from Evilness. There are only 2 truths in the world: Right (Goodness) and Wrong (Evilness) and everyone has the supernatural knowledge born in them to know the difference. Can’t understand how Scientology can promote falsehoods and pure lies and then believe they’re doing good for mankind or the planet! Are they truly that naïve? I pray for these people especially the young impressionable liberals out there. All these celebrities (who are mostly wildly liberal) do such a disservice to young people (who see them as idols) in promoting falsehoods, like scientology! And they call themselves adults – have they no shame at all? GUESS NOT – They love the darkness of evilness.
When Ned for OTs was released, there was a rather huge pool of people (I think about 20,000) who had attested to the state of clear. These people were told that they had to get to OT immediately, or that, if they croaked, they’d spend eternity “as a burning cinder”. Regges could scare the hell out of people into doing the top end of the grade chart using fresh LRH quotes, and they did.
Flag went from making tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands to, frequently, millions of dollars a week. AOLA incomes were often over 100,000 a week, but 98% of the Class V orgs and the missions were empty and got even emptier every week! (Don’t know “empty” could be “emptier”, but they were.) Meanwhile, just like now, the news you’d get at the events and in the promo was always, “we are expanding like never before”.
Class V orgs and regges would write up their weekly reports with danger and non-ex training and processing stats, letting management know they were starving to death, but I think Int management reveled in the big incomes at Flag and at the AOs and couldn’t care less.
If you mentioned a concern about the lack of production in the lower orgs, you’d be told stuff like “each individual Ned for OTs session disenturbulates the planet more than one person going Clear”. As a tours reg at the time, I visited all but 2 or 3 of the orgs in the US, Canada and Mexico and all were in the doldrums.
There was a brief campaign for the “Have You Lived Before This Life?” book, where a few people were able to fill up conference halls with the idea that some book one auditing might get you a past life recall or two for a couple hundred dollars. Minimal sign ups. The Book One campaign of the early eighties mainly benefitted Orange County org, which had a big, friendly staff and an org with pleasing professional quarters that had been kept healthy with a regular inflow of well heeled chiropractors and optometrists recruited by some WISE groups. The remaining Class V orgs in the US didn’t get many of these reaching Book One readers, and when they did, they’d flub with them (as HGC auditing remained much too expensive for all but the very well-to-do and nothing streamlined was put in place to make co-audits happen and the usual tone of lower org staff at the time was overwhelm and apathy).
But, for years, church strategy seems to have been focused on “Get lots of people auditing on Ned for OTs and we are going to make huge breakthroughs for Scientology throughout the world and in our own ranks.”
“Going Clear” was a HUGE deal before NOTs came out, less and less promoted or pushed since. And, it seems, getting people through NED for OTs hasn’t been really such a big deal. These guys seemed to all the rest of us to be just like all the rest of us: they got stressed, they got angry, they caved in, they got ill, they got older, they croaked. Maybe more so than the rest of us! (Perhaps as they took on most of the heat for being regged and donations and buying buildings and statuses and all else.)
Really a shame! Why? Wins in HGC enroute to Clear were VERY valid and life changing. Miracles used to happen in these orgs and when people came out with their releases, the people in these orgs would see really cool changes in people. For years and years now, Class V orgs have been barren waste lands, with all the wins and grade chart completions that used to happen in a week or two now requiring a full year to accumulate.
I’m open to being hired by my old bosses as a PR and management consultant. There’s probably less than 10 major changes that would have to be implemented in order to make this activity make sense again and have some real value. The most major change would be that Church management would have to act like real, conscious people again, even so much as to admit that they had erred, and that they had wronged and that they were committed to change.
Dan Locke, Thank you for your astute observations. So let me ask a “what if” question of you: If lil Davey up and died from a heart attack, stroke, cirrhosis of the liver or something, do you think someone would step up to run the church? And would that someone be competent enough to do it? And what are the chances they would hire you or others as consultants to get the church going again? (especially since they have declared you a “Special Person”). And if the new leader who stepped up declared an Amnesty for all declared SP’s, do you think many would take advantage of that and come back into the church? I’m not asking as a rhetorical question, I really am curious as to your opinion on whether the church could be rehabbed if the right leader stepped up and made changes? And is there anyone left with enough fire in the belly and smarts in the head to run things?
Cindy — here are my answers to your questions.
If lil Davey up and died from a heart attack, stroke, cirrhosis of the liver or something, do you think someone would step up to run the church? No
And would that someone be competent enough to do it? No
And what are the chances they would hire you or others as consultants to get the church going again? (especially since they have declared you a “Special Person”). Zero
And if the new leader who stepped up declared an Amnesty for all declared SP’s, do you think many would take advantage of that and come back into the church? No, VERY few.
I’m not asking as a rhetorical question, I really am curious as to your opinion on whether the church could be rehabbed if the right leader stepped up and made changes? No
And is there anyone left with enough fire in the belly and smarts in the head to run things? No – anyone who is left who may at one time have possibly been able to do this has been completely emasculated and turned into a spineless jellyfish incapable of making a decision or taking an action. It’s a dead parrot. It is not pining for the fjords.
Mike – LOL, my sentiments exactly, HA, my fave answer, “And is there anyone left with enough fire in the belly and smarts in the head to run things? No – anyone who is left who may at one time have possibly been able to do this has been completely emasculated and turned into a spineless jellyfish incapable of making a decision or taking an action. It’s a dead parrot. It is not pining for the fjords.”
You too funny!
Great answer, Mike. And I also loved the spineless jellyfish part too. You have a way with words.
Dan’s observations make me think that the issue about “Dianetic Clear” was really a money making move.
That issue essentially destroyed the old ASHO-AOLA R6EW, Solo Course sequence and created tens of thousands of ‘Clears’ almost overnight at Class 4 org level.
Although they didn’t have to do the old line up, they were now “Pre-OT’s” ready for the far more expensive courses.
I somewhat agree, since the LRH issue is called “Flag Relative Importances” a Central Bureaux Order (Flag Bureaux was then the “top” of management) and “Class 4 Orgs” were top fo the list for Flag Management to ensure were healthy. Not Sea Org Orgs, Not Flag, but Class 4 orgs.
That particular CBO “Flag Relative Importances” (which means what top management, “Flag” at that time) I thought when Miscavige finally started to shift to following LRH’s all time layout issue, it’s still and always per LRH should be really how the WDC Sectors line up, the WDC Sectors should line up in priority per “Flag Relative Importances”.
Dan, there are about 20 key management issues, that pretty much would list out the priorities to “fix” the movement. CBO “Flag Relative Importances” was one.
Now, would this work, and was LRH right about these relative importances of what top management should focus on.
There is all of LRH’s “stat management” traffic from the 1970s and 1980s, to use as models of doing the top level stats analyses.
Again, just because LRH said those principles that he said, and today I agree with you, us ex members can see nonstop violations of LRH’s management principles, but what is LRH isn’t fully right in his principles.
Just because he wrote them, sure, whatever does come out of top management can always be graded as unorthodox compared to what LRH wrote, but what is LRH wasn’t fully right?
That’s always one point. LRH just because he “got stats up” the reason stats would go up, is the smartest and most important managment and staffers in the hierarchies always PUSHED on whatever it was LRH said push on. It was just focus.
The public has always mostly liked missions better than orgs, back when good big missions with Class 8 auditors were more plentiful and missions had no meddling CLO management meddling and pestering them constantly, and back when missions attracked factually brighter smarter more gung ho staffers to deliver the “tech” more enthusiastically and smartly.
Over management and bad over management used to muddle up the Class 4 orgs until they fell apart and then garrison missions came held them afloat, but in the history of Class 4 orgs, there have always been “small and failing orgs” category, all the years I remember doing my “OFO” traffic (Org Flag Officer) from 1977 til 1986 I did OFO duty, where you keep up the comm despatch lines with staff of your assigned org. In the “OFO room” at Clearwater, later at the complex, and later at the HGB, you see and get to pick and choose, somewhat, which org or orgs you will be assigned to be their “Org Flag Officer” and be the one who answers normal staff despatches and acknowledge them and do things for the Programs Chief, you always get to do the “OFO filing” into the Org Data Files. You learn, I did, of the number of staff in all of the orgs, through the weekly reports. As an OFO you learn about ALL of the whole system of orgs in the world, if you do your job and take note of the CIC Notice Board with all of the facts of numbers of staff, and you chat with the other Org Flag Officers, and you find out things, like what the various orgs around the world PAY their staffs. Some orgs are pitiful and ALWAYS are pitiful, all through my 10 years, 1977 to 1986, there were always “small and failing orgs” the ones with less than 10 staff and really the whole org staff all had to moonlight, they were even LESS of a real org than most of the good missions!
Honestly, the people with the BEST historical history of the staff inadequacies and problems of orgs in all of Scientology management history would be someone who held the “OFO Chief” job, like a man named David Hartley. Hartley was the original OFO on Flagship Apollo, and LRH wrote the OFO issues and David was the first and longest term OFO Chief I think in history, the original. Long term Programs Chiefs from the HGB today, I sure with Karen Hvass were around to interview, she’s lived through over 2 decades in Programs in the Flag Bu of the ILO, if she’s still there.
Even with the ups and downs, of following LRH to the letter, the problem, I think one has to conclude, is very similar to LRH at the end of his life. When LRH admitted failure to Sarge, at Creston, and it just blew Sarge away to hear LRH say that LRH failed at all of it, the point is the movement members are conditioned to think that doing what Ron said will always work and succeed.
Well, LRH failed at his one Solo NOTs exorcism, he admitted that to Sarge.
The problem is also LRH’s tech can’t be presumed to work, EVEN if the management of the movement is done exactly correctly per LRH’s many many rules (which us who know the rules, could easily spot which of those rules are not being done).
But are “body-thetans” really real, and is exorcism the actual solution?
There are a lot of presumptions I see, that Scientologists get conditioned to presume are true.
I realized that if a group of persons all play along and all agree, then there is the apparancy that what they are doing “works.”
But what if “body-thetans” are like Angels, and not provable. Nice ideas of what is wrong or right in the world, but it’s like Scientology to me is like a Santa Claus believing group that take Santa Claus and the rein deer really seriously.
The “tech” gets placebo benefits, so some people can be boosted up to placebo success.
Even if Scientology is more benignly managed and “standardly” management with correct priorities, I think the bottom line is people with mental problems will NOT be helped, and LRH is the example of that, look at what he admitted to Sarge in the end of LRH’s life. No “Flag Relative Importances” would have helped LRH who failed at his own medicine.
There is no “Church management”. There is only 4′ 13″.
I remember the book one campaign in the early 80s, it was right before the “coup of 82” and the destruction of the mission network. If I recall correctly one of the guys behind this book one campaign was John Galusha. He was a very early dianeticist, and seemed to have a really good understanding of DMSMH. Unfortunately for the rest of us we actually had to read and understand the book to try to do the auditing. A nearly impossible task. Very few people ever got through that book and most that did didn’t really understand it. In hindsight, I think Galusha delivered the ‘auditing’ and got results purely on chrisma and empathy. He actually listened to people, addressed what was bothering them and understood them. That will make just about anyone feel better. At least for a while.
Dan, what I don’t understand in your post is the claim of widespread wins with people going ‘clear’ and basking in that state of beingness prior to NED for OTs being released. Then you state that NED for OTs was just sort of ho-hum and those on that level had all sorts of afflictions that an ordinary homo sap has. BUT, isn’t it true that one had to be ‘clear’ and through OT III before starting NED for OTs? What happened to this homo novi that they would be just like your run of the mill homo sap? Did they lose their ‘clear’ state of being just by advancing to the next level?
I’m sticking with my well worn assertion that there are no ‘clears’, never have been, never will be. The ‘tech’ doesn’t work as advertised. Not even for John Galusha. And those were the good ol’ days.
Spot on! 🙂 Remember that? All of a sudden “everybody is Clear and routed into the AO, some went to Flag and then what happened? Empty ideal orgs and missions. True the NOT’s was a big discovery because how in the world could a person not be aware that but many still are THANKS to the Church of Scientology not people like you and I that have left. 🙂
Hey Dan, kudos to you!!!!! How refreshing to finally hear something from some conscious in-the-in-know person who has something to say other than a typical troll relishing in useless but heart-hardening do-less criticisms.
I was just thinking along the same lines today when I was thinking that if only there was some way to pry into the brainwashed choose five-Orgs headset and do the ultimate sin – overthrow COB with mutiny! – HA-HA !!
Although that keeps coming to mind, I know it’s a dead-end futile beat. It appears that there may be some like-minded individual, however under saveScientology.com, but it looks like they don’t publish their affiliation.
Watching the trailer to Scientology the Prison of Belief documentary today, I noticed it was mentioned that the Church of Scientology, being run by one soul dictator has no cross checks and balances, and therefore cannot be held accountable and does not qualify for tax-pre-exemption from the IRS. Albeit, though, as they said the IRS would surely be completely reluctant to attack the Church after being “taken to the bank” as they were by the Church in 1993. If anyone was ever able to assemble a team of shark lawyers comparable to the Churches’ to surmount protective defense, that may therefore be an inroad to require setting up cross checks and balances by the IRS.
Sorry this is not a real promising comment, as I wish it were, but it is an insight which aligns with yours in regard to salvaging a once thriving and truly Theta church-turned-cult.
Wishing the very best of the outcome to you and your offer,
Markee
I comment with a heavy heart. I’m very sad to report that Bubba has dropped his body. Apparently he died of a broken heart. Just couldn’t wait for Davey anymore. Ah well, maybe they’ll meet up at Target Two.
So I guess that be the last of the Bubba jokes. Or is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCAvzIFY-s
I like this message: “There’s beauty in the struggle. Ugliness in the success.”
I look forward to your blogs and anything you and Leah put out on tv, social media, interviews etc but I can’t get your adorable accent out of my head when I read your blogs. 🙂 Love you guys and for what you are doing. I hope this gets shut down and families are re-united. If you only save a few then you have done your job.
Scientology does have SOME increases so don’t be too hard on them…you will create a “sad effect”
Here we go – let’s bang out those stats, shall we?
# of Lies told by Scientology is increasing
# of Blown staff members is increasing
# of PI’s hired is increasing
# of refunds requested is increasing
# of people in the HOLE has increased
# of punches and slaps by DM has increased
# of RPFer’s has gone straight up and vertical
BANKRUPTCIES – EPIC
Divorces – off the charts
Yep, Scientology does have some increases for sure!
Don’t forget Yingling’s waistline! She is looking very bloated and not “healthy” at all. Such is the fate of all carnivores….and women unfortunate enough to come in to in DM’s orbit
Wow!!! They sure have been busy!
And let’s not forget that the total number of SP’s declared has been on a 47x, straight up and vertical trend, with the number of family members disconnected from each reaching all-time highs!
Remember, with $cn you’re only as spiritually free as we say you are; any mistakes that were made in your auditing are your responsibility alone (make it got right!) and anything that is said about the gains that you will make in auditing are in no way promises or guarantees that the “100% standard” tech is 100% standardly effective.
While awareness of Scientology seems to be increasing in the U.S., it is a bit disturbing how they are pushing to expand in other countries where the people may not be as aware of the negative aspects.
Here is a link to an article about “Landmark” a group that is similar to Scientology http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karin-badt/inside-the-landmark-forum_b_90028.html I found this fascinating, as the journalist discusses her experience taking the seminar, and how easily the crowd’s emotions were manipulated. This is relevant to Scientology because of the way the participants willingly suspended their critical thinking skills and adopted the catch phrases, etc. If you have interest in the mechanizations of introducing a ‘cult-think’ in a group, this is a worthwhile read.
Thank you for this discussion space, Mike Rinder. Best wishes to you and your family, happy MLK day to everyone! 🙂
I think it’s cool to be able to go through life with a predominately cheerful attitude. I’m even cheerful when I say NO!
Just because a process or an activity or an adventure brings one up to a realization about something which is enlightening doesn’t mean one owes that group or activity the rest of one’s life. When a sense of belonging begins to be a sense of being owned, it’s time to leave.
Good people will wish you well as you move on. A cult will vilify your departure. Some cults will even hunt you down or put up nasty websites about you.
This comment hit home for me. When I was in and was made to do a success story, I always got the response that it was because of scientology that I was winning. Therefore, I was afraid to be without it. Now I can clearly see that it was ME and MY decisions and actions that was improving my life. Embarrassing that I fell for that but proud that I “got it” eventually.
Landmark Forums, an offshoot of Erhard Seminars Training or EST, founded by Werner Erhard, former Scientologist. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training
When I was on staff in Hawai’i, est was big in the islands. Of course, Scientologists wanted to stop them.
That’s because they knew how much Werner had wholesale lifted from CoS. (I’m a former staff member of WE&A–the incarnation between est and Landmark.) Of course, all of it was/is, total crap.
Bruce, I think it’s inherently misleading and even unfair to categorize anything that came after Dianetics and Scientology as the work of “former” scientologists. That is too much like the Scientology PR line that everything that happened after 1951 came from Hubbard, and overlooks the reality that all the seekers and thinkers of that area were exploring a variety of sources and practices, and that most of them at least dabbled in Dianetics and Scientology when those were the “in thing” especially in California. The whole so-called Human Potential Movement of that era overlapped with Eastern and Indian religions and meditative practices as well as earlier Western movements like Theosophy (itself with diverse influences), and then with Dianetics and Scientology (influenced by everything previously mentioned). If that sounds a bit convoluted, it reflects the chicken-and-egg paradox in trying to pin down the origins of any one thing.
I’ve read about the est Training and Erhard, and he seems to have explored almost everything from anthropology to Zen, rather like Hubbard if not even more thoroughly, and inevitably including many of the same subjects that Hubbard was familiar with. His work seems to me as influenced by Zen as much as anything, plus Erhard was involved with a number of other groups and trainings before starting his own. And I found it interesting that he taught things such as “insight is the booby prize,” which seems to be a rejection of the trap of “cognitions” and the other feel-good aspects of Hubbard’s auditing processes that are now generally recognized as not producing meaningful change. His organization also seemed to be somewhat the reverse of Hubbard’s, with as small as possible a structure, and a limited number of short and inexpensive courses. I give him credit for trying to trying to achieve the ideals of the Human Potential Movement and avoid the pitfalls of Scientology, though his organization seems to have inevitably gotten just a bit cultish and Erhard himself seems to have initially fallen into the guru trap of ending up as the revered leader before removing himself. Paul Twitchell and Eckanckar are another example of an individual who crossed paths with Dianetics and Scientology and a distinct organization they founded that has continued to this day.
That was a risky move to post pictures of the people who went Clear at Tampa Org. It is risky because 3 to 5 years from now or sooner, how many of those faces will they have to block out because they have left the cult? And as Mike pointed out, about half of those pictured are staff, so they don’t count on the stat to Make Clears from the Public. If that many staff are going clear it shows there aren’t enough public coming in the door, so they are auditing their own since the staff aren’t busy servicing public. I saw one person pictured at least 2 times and possibly 3 times in their pictures of the number of Clears. So one person was counted two or three times for that stat.
They do that often when they post their “completions” the same name is posted several times, and then a couple of months later, same name, same completions once again. They need to “pad” their stats.
I doubt many of the staff are getting any free auditing to clear, if any. From info I got from certain people I know they get a nice discount to be audited in the HGC as a public, and this practice has become trendy (because there’s no staff auditors to get them up the bridge). So the org actually makes money off its own staff, gets to count the stat as a public, and the staff consider the discount a nice benefit – despite the fact that they joined staff with the intention of getting “FREE auditing”.
Of the 75 ‘clears’ made at Tampa mOrg in 1 year, how many are staff and how many are doing it again for the 2nd or 3rd time? Without context, all is crap. Did the Universe Corps actually train the local staff? That would be a first, if it actually happened.
The bigger question is how long can the current population of $cienoLand support the infrastructure? There are lots of expensive mOrgs, that are paid for, but are ‘owned’ by the international landlord. That landlord is one tough bastard. All day to day costs are the responsibility of the locals.
No matter how rich Bob Duggan is, that well will eventually run dry. No matter how many movies Tom Cruise makes, he will run out of steam and stop running. I suspect that he is paying for several mOrgs on his own.
The next real sign of the clampocolypse will be the decommissioning of the Fleecewinds. That rust bucket is ready for the scrap heap and with the decided lack of OT 7 and 8 customers, it will rust in to a grave. Or a ‘poorly charted’ reef. No matter how many ‘prosperity seminars’ they put on, the CO$ can’t be making money off the Fleecewinds.
I have to wonder if Miscavage can keep the illusion of ‘straight up and vertical’ growth when the Fleecewinds is replaced with the SS. Minnow.
I keep waiting for the fundraising drive to start for the Freewinds’s replacement. They wrung an unneeded and still-unused TV production studio out of the remaining faithful (and the secretly unfaithful afraid to say no); why not hound them for another cruise ship–bigger, better, more comfortable, asbestos-free, capable of traversing more than the same old tired A-B-C route, and perfect for delivery of the forthcoming OT IX and X?? A new ship to usher in a whole new New Era! It’s what LRH would have wanted!
Given the longstanding decrepitude of the Freewinds, it seems inevitable. And the beauty of it is that they can drag that fundraising–and the promise of OT IX and X–out for years, without ever seeming to get enough.
The Fleecewinds is a very big PR debacle for the cult because it’s such a visible reminder of just how many people are NOT going all the way up the bridge to OaTy 8. Since that tippy-top level of the bridge is only available on board the cult’s floating prison, the fact that no second boat or larger cruise ship has been required to handle this “greatest expansion ever” puts the lie to claims like that one pretty darn quick!
My bet is that they will scuttle that rust bucket and tell the sheeple that, due to popular demand, all upper level OaTy services, including OaTy 8 will now be available at every AO.
DM is keeping the Fleecewinds so he’ll have a place to run away to the FBI (finally) does their job. He’ll be safe in international waters……. until the first storm, when the the ship sinks and goes to Davy Jones’ Locker. And, hopefully, Davey goes down with it.
WAAAROOUNK!
Well, where is the FBI or the CIA? Not to forget the IRS!
Zemoo, you are almost certainly correct that the claimed number of clears being made is even less than it appears due to repetition of courses and other gaming of reported numbers.
However, I have to point out that if Scientology got ahold of Duggan’s entire multi-billion dollar fortune, between that and their reserves they might have in the ballpark of $5 billion in liquid assets, which at a 5% rate of return would give them enough income to keep appearances up and the doors open almost indefinitely. You can look at the Getty Museum for an example of how a non-profit that amasses enough assets can take on a life and power of its own. And that perhaps provides some idea why COB Miscavige may have embarked on the course that he has, and a reality-check that it’s likely going to take more than just attrition or even some internal crisis to bring down Scientology’s corporations.
It looks to me like the real downfall of Scientology would come only through a combination of the revocations of the tax-exempt status of CoS’ corporations, and the forfeiture of ill-gotten assets. And I don’t see that coming about without a combination of government and private action, though Scientology may be increasingly vulnerable as the actual membership that justifies them as a “church” shrinks. As for assets, I think Scientology could be liable to calls for something sensational like “retributions for slave labor,” some combination of back pay and payments into Social Security for staff and Sea Org members that would satisfy both ex-members and government agencies that have been cheated. There also seem to have been calculations in the past, that having to pay back money left “on the books” by ex-members (including, probably, the deceased and their heirs) would virtually wipe out reserves. But any such actions will almost certainly take work on the part of several parties, not just waiting.
p.s. Quick research shows that there are several steel-hulled ships around a hundred years old that are still in active service, so ships can be kept seaworthy when there is money and determination.
Liying has always been Scientology’s (Ron’s) default marketing technique.
1) cure leukemia
2) cure asthma (ain’t that true Dave)
3) cure arthritis
4) teach how to communicate, yet Scientologists are always hiding what they believe.
5) Ron is Matreiya
6) exterior with full perception at will
Scientology has always relied on falsehoods to promote itself.
Falsehoods and the threat of punishment for scrutinizing those falsehoods is why Scientology has survived this long.
The internet is speeding up societie’s seeing those falsehoods, philosophic and spiritual absurdities with breakneck speed.
And Leah Remini: Viking Shield Maiden, is slashing the barrier between our entire population and those absurdities being revealed.
The more we know about L Ron Hubbard and his church, the more the church will loose power.
If L Ron Hubbard was a liar, it is reasonable to conclude that Dave sees the virtue in lies.
After all, if it’s for the greater good, lying is a sacred practice for the Scientologist.
Ron started the culture of lies. Teachers teach and students learn.
Cure insanity? FLUNK FLUNK FLUNK
Scientology makes the able…disabled
Absolutely!!! To the nth degree! Nice, wog & out!
“Viking Shield Maiden.” I love it!
But, could they cure male pattern baldness???
If you consider Shrinking to be a form of growing (reverse growing), then the 47X claim is true!
To everyone who left, they claim 10 more joined…
In $cn being an upstat makes you immune to the ethics consequences that would otherwise apply if you happened to break one or more of the 10,000 rules that $cilons are supposed to follow.
This is exactly why lil davey’s reign of terror has never resulted in the faithful holding him to account. In their eyes, he may be tough – even sdistic aand violent – but he’s boomed $cn like never before, so all is forgiven…or rather, it’s never investigated or charged to begin with. The tiny tyrant seems to have been given a permanent pass that extends into the future and absolves him, not only of all the crimes he’s already committed, but of all that he might commit in the future as well.
Of course, this is exactly the kind of an amoral, “any means justify the end” world view that’s a defining feature of most cults’ moral philosophy, but let’s put that larger point aside for moment and just critically analyze $cn’s actions from the standpoint of its own “moral” code.
So, the “think-think” rationalization that most True Believer $cilons employ when confronted with, say, the obvious and inescapable evidence of Dear Leader’s violent assaultive behavior is to dismiss it as relatively unimportant compared to the huge successes that he’s led $cn to. After all, it’s a tough universe and only the strong will survive the next Marcabian invader force’s return to Teegeeack, right? To them, lil davey is their General Patton: one tough sumbitch who’s not going to go all reasonable-minded on us while there’s a dangerous universe out there to be conquered, err, cleared.
But wait a minute here, WHO says $cn is booming and expanding like never before and what, exactly, does that mean? False reporting of stats in $cn is a high crime, but omitting the reporting of key stats is too. And lil davey has consistently failed to report two of the most fundamentally important stats that LRH designated as measurements of progress toward clearing the planet: number of well done auditing hours and auditor training course completions. These are collected and kept close track of on an org-by-org basis, but never provided to the faithful to substantiate his claims of 10x this or 47x that; instead, they are purposefully omitted!
Elron’s logic in designating those two stats as key measurements of progress toward clearing the planet couldn’t be simpler or easier to understand: In order to clear the planet an ever-increasing number of auditing hours have to be delivered, which, in turn, can only happen if an ever-increasing number of auditors are trained. It’s wonderful to have lots of huge and tastefully refurbished spaces for this ever-increasing amount of auditing and training to take place in, but an org is NOT ideal in any sense of the word that would matter to Elron UNLESS lots more auditing and training occurs within it and that’s exactly what lil davey has NOT reported.
Lil davey has somehow been able to continue to pull this success stat bait and switch scam on the gullible and overly trusting $cn sheeple for decades now with no one having courage to demand that he actually report the real LRH-designated stats. Regardless of whether or not $cilons believe that lil davey’s outrageous, brutal and sadistic behavior should be excused, based on his accomplishments in leading $cn; if he’s not really an upstat to begin with, then that whole justification just doesn’t apply to begin with!
Has lil davey purposefully omitted reporting the two key $cn stats that actually matter when it comes to measuring progress toward the ultimate goal of clearing the planet? It sure looks that way, doesn’t it? Where are all the brave and resolute $cilons who’ve pledged to KSW until the lights go out in the universe!?
To look the other way as lil davey substitutes “square feet of new Ideal org space” for the real stats that Elron laid out so clearly just seems to me to be the most weak ass cowardliness that I’ve ever seen. If being OaTy means you don’t even have the courage and personal integrity to require that actual verifiable stats are reported, then you’re not some sort of super-powered Homo Novis being; you’re a craven super douche!
Dave,
Expansion Update:
Even Mother Nature is done with your bullshit.
Three powerful storm systems are headed for Southern California; Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.
Club Med in Hemet is going to get very wet and the bullshit will be flowing beyond your porch and into your bunker.
Threefeetback, Love this analogy ☺
Since I’m in Orange County, or, as we say it, the OC, we welcome the coming storms. However, in Hemet, let the storms be massive…
I might be out of the mainstream, but I have a really difficult time defining Miscavigism as
a religion. But if a person buys into Miscavigism, there is no problem accepting lies as truth.
Since 1972, I have watched Scientology vary in its core beliefs. “Truth Revealed” for me
was the final revelation of Hubbard’s contradictions. I think one needs to be sold a certain type
of mental glue by Hubbard to actually support the teachings. Without this “MisHubbed” glue,
there is no structure to experience. For me Scientology was like a drink. As long as you could
afford a “sip”, you could feel refreshed. Scientology thus never could become a vehicle which carried itself.
In 1990, ARIS had found about 45,000 Scientologists. In 2001, it found 55,000, and in 2008, it found 25,000.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/scientologists-how-many-of-them-are-there-anyway-6717701
As of 2013, active Scientologists fewer than 20,000 worldwide.
http://tonyortega.org/2016/02/13/scientologys-space-man-as-of-2013-active-scientologists-fewer-than-20000-worldwide/
“John P. Capitalist”, a frequent contributor to the Bunker who is pretty good at doing estimaes and who also posts here every now and then, currently thinks there are 17,000 scilons.
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/theundergrondbunker/saturday_78/#comment-3057108421
Also: https://www.mikerindersblog.org/10-mi…here-are-they/
Last link should be https://www.mikerindersblog.org/10-million-scientologists-where-are-they/
“John P. Capitalist”, a frequent contributor to the Bunker who is pretty good at doing estimaes and who also posts here every now and then, currently thinks there are 17,000 scilons.”
And of those I would estimate:
1) about 3k are hiding withing the confines of Pac, Flog and Hermit
2) about 3k are in the greater LA area
3) another 3k are in Murkywater
4) about 6k are outside the US
and of the whole lot, my guess is 1/3 to 1/2 are very aware of the radar installations and have avoided detection.
I think your calculations are correct, Newcomer
Off the subject
But last night a friend of mine who’s a practicing Buddhist
Told me she went to a great poésie reading, flamenco
And tango at Celebrity Center in LA. She said it was beautiful.
I asked her if she was aware of the show and tre abuses committed by the so called church.
She said NO
I urged her to watch the show !!!!
Interesting Sylvie. So they do allow “wogs” in their presence! If nothing else for the $$. Wonder if they attempted to lure her into the church? Thanks for the post.
No she wasn’t approached but was so happy about the event , I couldn’t help but tell her about the show
She Keira saying it was so beautiful
Well it’s Celebrity Center of course it’s beautiful
Are any of the people photographed on that site have family from here
“We own a tremendous amount of property. We own a tremendous amount of material and so forth, and it keeps growing. But that’s not important. When buildings get important to us, for God sakes, some of you born revolutionists will you please blow up central headquarters”.
L Ron Hubbard Lecture 31 Dec 1960
So goes Davey, the Yanker in Chief, the Tiny Tyrant, Usurper and self appointed Pope….
Yippee -yayaa!!!! I’ve been thinking about that reference lately, and was wishing that it would get greater exposure – thanks! : D
Dave,
Have you removed this quote from your collection of titanium plates?
Scientology is clearly the CRUELEST religion on earth. It has the highest statistics for:
# lies told
% of members leaving or going under the radar
# people being abused
# of human rights violations
% of members driven to bankruptcy
This is the biggest fraud I see in this world, not onoy here in Tampa, USA but its alla round the world, in Colombia the building is hugh an probably 50 persons going to take the cheatti g services … in Venezuela the staff living in the poor the do not receive pay, they have nothing even money for food… this is unbelive!! how the world have been
Back in the mid to late 80s, my org with about 30 staff, would make one or two Clears per year. It was a big deal. So, looking at Tampa’s numbers…hell, they’re kicking ass! But, when put into perspective, it’s meaningless. Zero impact.
People need to realize that Tampa is somewhat of an anomaly. Most orgs probably haven’t made a Clear in years.
Regarding Clearing the Planet…most Scnists have explained this by “magical thinking.” Like: “You don’t have to Clear everyone, just a percentage”, or “Once we tip the theta-to-entheta ratio, Scn will just take off.” They really believe that supernatural forces will cause Scn to take over the planet; that people auditing on OT7 are “handling” the entheta, and thereby “saving the planet.”
statpush, this is the Tampa Org that gets the spillover from Flag Services Organization. I am sure they would count someone who did all their services somewhere else, came to Flag for something like the Superpower Rundown, and then did their Clear Certainty Rundown at Tampa just because they can get cheaper rates there.
It has been a really long time since I was a public Scientologist (70s) but I would be willing to bet that a lot of the Clears that were made in the 70s and 80s later got their Clear status revoked by Dave. Then they get a repair session with some Dianetics and have the Clear Cognition again, off to Tampa for a Clear Certainty Rundown and voila – Tampa makes a ton of Clears.
Somebody who has been around Tampa more recently could come up with a better explanation backed by current information. But it is a pretty sure bet that Tampa is not bringing in new public that are doing the whole lower Bridge to Clear. They are almost certainly just recycling old public and staff.
Hi Bruce. I was in Tampa for auditing 2 years ago and I was a Flag reject. The auditing rooms were in a super long hallway with at least 30 rooms. Only 2 were being used. It was so empty. The staff get so excited when someone comes in for services, but they try to hide it and the fact that they haven’t had a chance to do their job much due to nobody coming in. They are the masters of looking busy, like they are working on a cure for cancer or something. When I look back, I can see clearly. When I was there, I was falling for it.
Plus, they aren’t doing the work that your org in the 80’s did – going from new public to making a Clear. A lot of these were already Clear. Probably redid some NED and then attested to Clear again.
I always wondered when people in the church donate to charities. I’ve learned they just donate to the church with good intentions and the church buys new buildings with the money.
There’s different front groups with their own donated money. CCHR, Criminon, Narconon, The Way to Happiness Campaign, etc., and of course, IAS and then the Ideal Org Campaign. All these are separate except when the IAS helps some new Ideal Org completion, then they’ll give monies to that entity, but I’m sure it’s only after the approval of the little guy at the top.
I don’t know how to fact check it, but I think even in square footage of real estate their claims fall flat. I do know the LDS church has massively more holdings than scientology and they are used daily for meetings, basketball games, funerals, or other social events. That claim must be only for bubble dwellers. What good does it do anyone else?
When we went to thanksgiving dinner with my cousin Ron’s family, there were more than 60 of us so he arranged to have the dinner in the LDS Lindon UT wardhouse. He told us the address was at something like 100 East 400 North we went to 100 West 400 North, there was a wardhouse there. We realized we were at the wrong place and on our way to the correct one a dozen blocks away, we passed another wardhouse.
I was raised Mormon but haven’t gone for almost 50 years, so I was amazed at the number of buildings that existed–they have buildings all over the place, even a couple in Iceland. I just checked their map and there are 5 within 25 miles of where I live in the middle of nowhere, one a few blocks from my house. I didn’t know that.
https://www.lds.org/maps/meetinghouses/@0.000000,0.000000,2&id=::::::-2.460181,79.101563
This simply shows that the LDS is actually growing and gaining members. Unlike Scientology which has to inflate their membership figures by way of false stats and expensive real estate.
I assume that’s because the LDS doesn’t:
1) bankrupt its members so they can’t afford children
2) coerce its pregnant missionaries into having abortions
3) discourage procreation
4) have utter contempt for the family unit
5) break up families (well, at least not to the extent the Co$ does)
According to its own figures, LDSers are popping out some 100,000 new kiddies every year. That’s a whopping 25% of their total annual “membership” growth.
Something to think about, eh mister cob? Or not.
On all points, you are spot on, my friend!
That’s a good question, when all else fails and it most certainly will. Where does the money go when all these empty commercial properties have to be sold off. They will undoubtedly be sold for pennies on the dollar, oh well we’ll just have to wait and see.
p.s. I’m also holding my breath for a season two, even if it’s still the exact same format…i.e. just telling people’s stories would be enough for my family and myself tontine in every week…Just say’n.
Nelson L.
Mike mentioned we may hear more about a next season Tues. I know Leah was in negotiations
I hope Leah and Mike get a new season. There are so may stories to tell and such a lot of interest in it. On ALL stations I’m seeing old programs about Scn coming out now, such as Spanky’s story, Marty’s story, Janet Reitman, etc, and this is only in the last week or two. The stations are piggybacking on the success of the Leah show. It’s all good cuz the truth is coming out. Thank you, Mike and Leah for your bravery and the great quality of the documentary you put out. By the way, when is Louis Theroux show coming out? I heard it will air in America this month. Anyone have news on it?
I agree. I think it’s very successful to keep it about the abuses NOT about the beliefs.
SCIENTOLOGY. The fastest shrinking religion in the world.
By a long shot! It’s like they’re on a turbo bobsled headed for Nowheresville…
I guess another way of looking at is that Scientology as defined in its own dictionary actually doesn’t exist. For a start it’s not a religion, even Hubbard said that. Next, part of the definition of Scientology is that you use it… well, Miscaivge doesn’t give or receive services, I doubt any SO member gets Bridge actions, Miscavige won’t allow it. The redoing of everything for the public is so out-tech that’s not Scientology either. Most sessions start with “I’m not auditing you” anyway, so that’s not Scientology but a witch hunt. Next is KSW1 – geezers, that’s never been applied by ANYONE, not even Hubbard could get the anyone to do that!
I’m curious to know how Scientology is defined now. It seems to splatter across a number of scenarios, from anything connected with the corporately registered organisation to someone doing a touch assist or has a book on it. More correctly I feel it’s anyone that’s not opposed to it or parts of it. I don’t agree with that but it just seems so now the media is picking up on it. As far as I can see technically Scientology went by the wayside sometime officially in the 70s and when the OT levels went space cootie crazy. But in reality it really lost itself the first time the organisation knowingly abused the first person, then it was no longer Scientology as Hubbard defines it but is a criminal enterprise.
Scientology’s can’t even define itself now without including donations mania or statuses, it’s one big generality of lies and abuses with stupidity on a scale that’s just too hard to comprehend.
I’m in favor of calling anything usable in it something else completely. The brand name Scientology is the tobacco of the mind & religious game.
What an underwhelm…
Do you think they’re on an internal witch hunt trying to find the source of your (and possibly other bloggers) information? If so that can’t be good for morale!
RedShoeLady: to answer your question, yes they are on an internal witch hunt to find the sources of info fed to Mike, Tony and anyone else who is critical. It’s done through sec checking the disaffected parishioners, and threatening them with disconnection from their families. The people undergoing this are not to be blamed because they are stuck in the mindset that they will loose their eternity, their Bridge, and the obvious like family and income. Hacking is illegal but they do that too. At least they will try if they have identified you. Regarding the morale of the staff watching and investigating, I cannot imagine how they can read all of this information day after day and not be affected by it. It shows how deeply committed people can be to the CoS and Scientology in their minds and disconnected from reality of life in the real world.
Lest we forget, about one half of those “clears” made will be declared NOT clear before they are onto OT1, probably ANOTHER half of those who make it onto the OT levels will at some point also be declared not clear…
AND, probably ALL will be declared SP with 7 years.
My thought exactly.
Repeating steps done, admitting shamefully they failed the first time, then paying ot do steps again, that’s Hubbard’s rules.
Scientologists need to know LRH in his final months of life admitted failure.
It’s so important for educated official Scientologists to read that Epilogue chapter of Lawrence Wright’s “Going Clear…” and see the HBO documentary particularly the Sarge Steven Pfauth telling Hubbard’s despair and admission of failure to Sarge, and Hubbard telling Sarge he planned to go do the OT Running Program around Arcturus the star.
Hubbard even was a case failure at his own medicine, and he self case supervised himself to go do the OT Running Program (the real great granddaddy earlier similar of the today Flag Cause Resurgence Rundown).
All bunk. And the pattern is Hubbard never admitting failure, except he did, for some moments, to Sarge, but the movement members horribly sadly never have heard of Hubbard’s failure admission and the media just isn’t spreading this Sarge story of Hubbard’s final despair.
….and another thought, along the line of the Scientology redo practise, relating to Hubbard himself, is that the members, were they to know about Sarge’s LRH moments in the end of Hubbard’s life, the members would realize that to be like Ron, they too ought realize they’ve failed.
Scientology Works! Get up to Ron’s understanding. Learn to admit you’ve failed. Plan for the OT Running Program when you die! Plan to go soul-fly massive large circles in space.
The ultimate cosmic running in circles goal of L. Ron Hubbard.
Remember the Kiki bird? It flew around in ever diminishing circles, finally to disappear up it’s own fundamental orifice in a puff of blue smoke. Waiting to see smoke.
Are SP declares even a “thing” anymore? When was the last time anyone got anything but verbal information that someone was an SP? I don’t think they dare put it in writing anymore. They’d run out of goldenrod in a day.
The rejects from Flag who have gone Clear at Tampa I would bet that none will get their OT levels at Flag. Maybe at an AO make it to OT 5 but no OT 7 at Flag. They’re rejects.
They are probably getting the shit regged out of them for OT levels as we speak. Very sad..
I think that they are making an impact on society. Not necessarily a good one. They are pissing people off with their lies and fraud and human trafficking.
The slaves are escaping For every slave that escapes there is one less slave to guard the rest. When it reaches the tipping point the rest will charge the gates and get out.
“For every slave that escapes there is one less slave to guard the rest. When it reaches the tipping point the rest will charge the gates and get out.” Well said, Bill.
I’m very glad of what you, Leah and A&E are doing here to expose this fraud. It almost seems to be either an A.) ponzi scheme, or B.) a pyramid scheme. Either way, it’s a cult that hopefully one day will topple like the Berlin Wall! I’m curious, however, if a season two is in the talks or works on A&E. I realize that usually most possible productions can’t be discussed until finalized, but I was wondering, and, very hopeful that this expose, so to say, will continue on. Great work to everyone involved!
I think you can be sure it is not a Ponzi scheme because you never hear anyone talking about how their investments in the Co$ paid off. The only person benefiting seems to be David Miscavige, so it would be a pyramid scheme, perhaps.
I believe they can claim they are the fastest growing in terms of property. They’ve got to spend their billion$ somewhere – even if it’s on empty buildings
The small letters of the building contracts are important.
Who gets finally the money, if all Property gets sold?
I think it fairly safe to say that Davey McDuck is certainly in for a hsefty share. My bet is that a fair sized chunk has already been sloughed off (ala Hubbard) into international accounts to which only Davey has access.
Good question, except virtually all of the opened ‘Ideal Orgs’ are single purpose, in poor locations, and would require extensive renovations to be useful for an ordinary business.
My suspicion is that considering that the publicized cost per square foot of sourcing the building plus renovations is significantly higher than a commercial entity would expend, that there may well be a significant ‘outflow’ to unnamed, closely held corporations/organizations for ‘project management’ or similar nomenclature where funds end up in difficult to trace off-shore banks. Much of the value would already have been captured that way, and if one considers how much work is done by low to no cost Sea Org members and volunteers, any discounted sale accruing to whatever is left of Scientology would not sustain it long without a major reorganization, and, because the rules set down by Hubbard would not allow that, don’t count on it ever happening.
Probably the IRS when they revoke the tax exemption.
There are formal IRS rules and procedures for the dis-incorporation of 501c3 federal tax-exempt organizations which are designed to ensure that no individuals benefit from the sale of its assets. Whether those rules actually would be followed, or no schemes to get around them will be employed, is another thing entirely.
Rainbow, Harpoona is right, there are legal requirements that generally mean that any assets of a defunct non-profit have to go to another non-profit. My guess is that the CoS corporations are set up so that in case of a corporate collapse any money would end up in some remaining charitable entity as an endowment intended to ensure Hubbard’s legacy. Monies would presumably go to maintain the vaults of Hubbard’s writings and to continue other promotions like museums and public relations as finances permitted, even if no one believed in LRH or Scientology any more and the remaining operations were just administered by hired staff. Over time the functions of charitable trusts with obsolete missions tend to get redirected by trustees and by the courts, however.
The other thing that would happen in the case of a corporate collapse of the CoS, is that the government and private parties would almost certainly try to seize assets in compensation for various past malfeasance and damages. My guess is that most if not all of the current assets of the CoS would flow out that way, but that the assets from Hubbard’s will would continue to be used to support his legacy unless the will itself were challenged. But the case of Scientology is probably unprecedented, and its future hard to predict.