There are no public to reg and no situation causes a greater state of terror on the mighty Sea Org flagship. Hitting an iceberg would cause less fear and panic Apparently even the tiny number of OT VII completions (5-10 per week) are not showing up at the Freewinds for OT VIII.
So, how are they planning to solve their dilemma?
By announcing they are inventing some service to convince people they should go to the Moneywinds to get “debugged” on going onto OT VIII.
I guess they haven’t put too much thought into this. It seems pretty clear to me that if they can get someone to agree to pay to fly to the Moneywinds to pay to take a service to get them started on OT VIII, then they might as well save the time and money and just route onto OT VIII. The problem is getting them to go to the Freewinds for anything.
Maybe they should try surveying WHY people who complete OT VII do not go to the Moneywinds at all?
- After 20 years of having the blood sucked out of you with $30,000+ trips to Flag twice a year, I can imagine there are only a few that have the money to go on to OT VIII.
- Of that small percentage that has the cash, I can imagine at least half of them, once “complete” on OT VII have vowed never to set foot in any scientology org again.
- Of the remaining tiny percentage, most of them have been to the Fleecewinds for Maiden Voyage events and know that it is a prison ship full of public-starved bloodsuckers who treat any passenger as fair game for day and night regging.
But of course, not a soul who intends to remain harassment-free would ever fess up to these things. They KNOW where that would get them. So they tell the regges and call-in people “I am enjoying my win” and “I have a firm plan to arrive in August 2019” and any of numerous other “dodges” that are pat “avoid the reg” handlings.
But their actions speak louder than words. And this survey is proof that those actions are speaking VERY loudly.
The “top of the bridge” is a total fail. This survey is truly an act of bizarre desperation.
Hey Mike Rinder, I admire your tenacity and focus. You do a good job week after week and though you have plenty of admirers, I just wanted to tell you so. ~Chris Thompson
Astonishing data.
Let me get this straight:
Contemplated, and, accordingly, being surveyed, is a course or action for the benefit of all OTVII completions – who are by virtue of such completion, “Cause Over Life” – a course or action of some sort specifically for such indiviuals is being contemplated, which will ENABLE them to go onto
OTVIII, which, in turn, means that it will be designed to handle whatever aspects of “life” the Cause Over Life is actually not yet cause over, NEVER MIND the CERT that tells them they’re now Cause over “Life” without any exceptions.
Here’s a suggestion for the Suggestion Box:
Possibly the OTVII certs with regard to this EP should be modified:
“CAUSE OVER LIFE”
*Certain Restrictions Apply.
*Not necessarily Cause over Finance, Relationships, Bank Restim phenomena.
*Not necessarily Cause over anything that presents itself as a barrier to getting onto OTVIII after completion of OTVII.
LOLOLOLOL with exclam tech!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you why I can’t go back to the Freewinds:
IT IS BECAUSE I AM DEAD.
I was told to come back “As soon as possible next lifetime”. This was after 16 years in the SO on the Freewinds after it was discovered that I had gotten HIV in their home port from blood transfusions ordered and paid for by the church. Now all these years later with no real medical care, all they could do was that the Captain, the only right arm Captain in the S.O. Mike Napier told my wife that I was going to die and that no-one could help me and that she should end cycle. on me.
The only reason I was going to die is that they sent me to a chiropractor (James Keppler) and removed me from an actual medical doctor (Gene Denk) (To be continued).
I self listed some of my barriers to going back for more and now I have a knot between my shoulders but I will press on and share them with others.
I’m an old bastard and don’t like to be told to do stupid shit stuff.
I take naps when I fuckin feel like it otherwise, I get cranky and, “stupid” .
I don’t take orders from ignorant children executives.
I don’t like to fly with 150+ potential victims.
I don’t like Florida, Clear Water, Flag and giant cockroaches.
I did like my auditors and OT Cinco however.
I did waste several really helpful BT’s ( sometimes refereed to as guardian angles and I miss em now and then but hey I’ll have to learn to do things on my own from now on.
My money button is flat since I don’t have much any more but the good news is I am my own boss and I get to keep it now instead of hemorrhaging it away.
I’m not crazy about swarms of mosquitos and regge’s which by now probably includes all staff.
Going to an ORG creeps me out , go figger. Its almost like going to court where a total stranger could determine what large amount of money you must pay for your freedom.
I eschew hectic environments and back to back created emergencies that have to be handled before ( guess).
I don’t like to be body routed to a financial vortex because it’s just stupid and unproductive.
well I’m going to bed now and I don’t muster three times a day either.
OT VIII FAILURES
They’re asking parishioners to help them figure out why THEIR “tech” is failing? – At this late juncture? … And by answering a survey? HUH? (My cheeks are killing me! LMFAO!) How ridiculous is that? This only proves how very DESPERATE they all are for more $$$!!! (It appears that MOST of those who have flown through OT VIII must be liars then, right? – Or else they would have discovered the “tech problem” that’s stalling everyone else by now!)
***It’s all so Scientology!*** After all the MILLIONS of HARD EARNED DOLLARS, VALUABLE TIME, MENTAL BREAKDOWNS, LOSSES, DEATHS, ABUSES, DISCONNECTIONS, ETC, ETC and ETC – that people have already gone through, solely based on the CoS’s lies, to get one passed OT VIII – those at the TOP are NOW asking for “data input” from you? ***NEWS FLASH*** – No, they’re not! … BUT GET READY: What they’re really telling you is this: It’s YOUR FAULT! — It’s the “FAILURE” of all those who haven’t made it through so far, and so they just quit, rather than admit it!
To the Quitters: Don’t you know YOU’RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG? GO BACK AND CHECK! YOU’RE MAKING IT WORSE FOR OTHERS! … (And that’s got to be true – you already know that – ‘cause L. Ron Blubbard said so … some where, somehow, in some or all of his bullshit revelations! … My guess is “Checks & Balances!”)
THIS IS ALL TOTALLY RIDICULOUS! THERE ARE NO OTs 1 through infinity, or whatever. There is NO BRIDGE! What PCs and OTs go through are just the different levels or stages of sanity vs. insanity. I believe the day you ‘Clear,’ it’s the first of many “mental breakdowns” a human being can have. That’s why people need so much care and therapy after being declared. Most can’t be alone until they are adjusted, and can accept the brainwash, and stop the fearful shaking!
(BTW, they’ve been clearing the world since 1950ish? Why then is the world getting so much worse?)
I would rather be held hostage by ISIS than to go on that ship. ISIS would be easier to get away from! LOL
May I say OUCH?
Just what I wanted to say, as well. Ouch!
And, “isn’t this great? The Sea Hoax is sinking.”
DITTO!
With this state of affairs I see Neo in The Matrix drawing all the negativity in reality into himself and blowing it up from the inside out. Those still inside the bubble though possibly unheard of yet are still waking up – to the same degree that escapees have – they’re just doing it according to their own karmic schedules and abilities.
This is happening to all humans on all levels all over the globe – whether they are still entrapped inside a limiting bubble of belief or not. Everyone is waking up.
I still see Mike wandering around London for days when he finally escaped – not knowing where he would go or what he would do. All he knew was that he was out and free.
Now he is shining this light he has into the innermost workings of what enslaved him and so many others. Bless his heart and the heart of everyone. This is an amazing time in human evolution.
Alice Graves I certainly hope so
“This is happening to all humans on all levels all over the globe – whether they are still entrapped inside a limiting bubble of belief or not. Everyone is waking up.”
Anonymous: I should have said “many” or “most”. All people are being affected by the waves of truth telling that are spreading out all over the globe, but some will still choose fear and will contract even further into their personal hell.
The good news is that most people will be attracted to truth, just as so many escapees have who are now telling their stories.
Does anybody ever ask to be DECLARED, if it was me I would please beg them to DECLARE me before they suck any more money from me, please just give me the golden declare, please!
I think one could argue Remini asked to be declared. She says in the book, that there were two reasons she filed the missing person’s report on Shelley – one simply wanting the police to find Shelley and make sure she was okay, and two because Leah knew it would get her declared an SP and she would never even have the option of rejoining the CoS, she should misguidedly want to.
Mike, you’re asking the right questions! But they’re the questions that may not be answered! Just think, how weird is that in the church of ‘freedom and communication’.
My wife and I were in the ‘vowed to never set foot in a CofS again once finished on VII’. If we’d have thought it through we would have dropped VII for messing us up so much. But “the way out is the way through!”
“If there were a service available on the Freewinds that would help you resolve the barriers preventing you from going on to OTVIII what would they be?”
Feel free to check more than one!
A. Verbal abuse
B. Shaming
C. Blackmail
D. Declare threats
E. High crime accusations
F. Intimidation tactics
Thank you for filling out this survey.
G. Robbery.
The fact they are even asking the victims what they think, is a sign of desperation.
And the TRUE answer is SO obvious.
Big time! Normally, the cult dictates to it’s members. It’s, “Shut up! I’ll tell you what to do and how to think.”
Wow — New OT VIII is the first “actual” OT level? What the heck were OT I, II, III, IV, V, VI, and VII?
There is a hidden concession from the church in there. OT levels do not deliver. If OT VIII had actually achieved what Hubbard first said it would achieve, you would have to build a fleet of Freewinds all around the world to meet the demand. Rather than just admit that the tech does not work (unthinkable in the bubble), the first seven OT levels are now not actual, and the “real” stuff is OT VIII and up.
Then there is the typical low quality writing: typo (should be “these barriers” not “these barrier”), use of space before and after a slash showing options (and if it is really an option, should be two survey questions), unusual formatting on the survey list, “thank you for your survey” makes no sense (they mean “thank you for your response or input or survey completion), and … they felt the need to copyright an amateurish survey that could be written up by anyone in less than five minutes?
How long before OT VIII becomes a non OT level?
COB is treating it as if it were an actual bridge. After years of sandblasting, painting, traffic problems and unfortunately, suicides, the old bridge is replaced with a shiny new one with a grander name.
I wonder if Royal Caribbean and other tourism cruise ships receive a higher amount of CoS practioners usage as opposed to the FW.
Or maybe cruises are mentally akin to a “3 hour tour” and therfore, they are scarred for life from cruises on boats.
You mean “find out what is needed and wanted”?
They haven’t done that in 60 years, why start now?
They think they’re doing that with that survey, but in reality, they already decided what is needed and wanted (and if you think anything different, it’s just “bank”), and put together yet another survey of leading questions that can do no more than fine tune what they already decided they will do.
Honestly, those items on that survey – that is directed at people who have already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve “cause over life”? And now they might need some hatting on financial management, or time management? If they can’t manage finances and time, how the hell did they get to where they are on the bridge? This should be a survey to find ruins to get people onto HQS.
Dear Mike , I know that this might be a little bit off-topic , but what are your thoughts concerning Sarge’s allegations that LRH wanted him to build a “BTs killing machine”. Do you believe Sarge ? Is he a trust-worthy individual from your perspective ?
Thanks in advance.
Peter
I believe Sarge 100%. He is one of the straightest shooters you will ever find
Thanks for your reply, Mike ; I really appreciate it.
I baptized it the fartwinds. All it can do is pestiferized. It stinks! We have been lured to believe that money has no odour. Well, the fartwinds one has: it stinks LRH’s mania for more more more, which describes insanity when it’s unneeded.
When I read a post such as McCarran’s it reminds me of just how out of touch Scientology is on the subject of money and exchange. Most people work for a living, providing for themselves, and typically other family members. The thought of anyone turning over thousands, or hundreds of thousands, makes my skin crawl. Especially when that group will throw you to the curb, or under a bus, just as soon as they think it will enhance their survival. Truly a disgusting, money sucking ‘relijun’
Yes, they’ll take your money but if you become ill, old or broke, or ask questions, it is under the bus for you.
Flag did literally put someone out on the pavement when he became ill and even though he’d been a big contributor.
Unfriggenbeliveable!!
When I read the above I realised just how rock bottom that bunch of loses truly are. They are actually surveying the PC so as to find out what process they would like have run on them, for as sure as hell we don’t know. So this is what the top of scam looks like?
It’s a reversal of everything scientology is supposed to be. It’s now put the PC in charge of the process. Figures though… money is the key, it unlocks everything about scientology and its motivation as it is known and delivered.
Aw well, even blind Freddie saw this coming but Freddie was declared along with anyone else with two eyes open with that cult.
Wana bet amnesties are in the pipeline? Anything to get anybody in the shop. But the age old question is beginning to form an answer, “and just how long is a piece of string?”
I’m not sure if amnesties would be in the pipeline because they don’t trust anyone enough to offer them an amnesty.
That being said, the reverse is also true. If offered an amnesty, how many people who left would be all about coming back. Leah? Mike? Me? You? Umm…. Not hearing many yesses.
I think those who left are pretty much G O N E. It wouldn’t matter what the amnesty was, the people who left weren’t kicked out, they ran the hell away and are glad they did so IMHO.
“If offered an amnesty…” my reply to this pathetic cult would be, “Don’t call me, I’ll call YOU, when or IF I decide to offer YOU an amnesty – got that?”
Absolutely right, Aquamarine. And they better move fast if they wanted anything from me, as I do not know how much much longer I will be able to defy their death sentence.
I went there about 12 years ago to do the Ability Congress “OT Hatting” Course. Wound up getting closed to pay more money to do the Ethics Seminar put on by the Captain. Then got pulled into numerous briefings by the IAS which eventually got me to up my status a couple notches. Also pulled into accommodations who closed me to upgrade my berthing to a suite. Never a shortage of things to spend your hard earned money on in $cientology….LOL
What ever happened to the OT Hatting Courses? I remember Mike Fine always doing OT Hatting Seminars at Flag and regging for the OT Hatting Courses on the ship. Was that whole program replaced by the basics?
And to think that when I finally walked out of the Tustin Org in Orange County, CA.,I had money on account at FLOG. $1,500 to be exact. However, since this was either ’82 or ’83, I called them up and demanded my money back. AND GOT IT! Now? Fagetaboutit!
My lack of God, have they no shame? When I mentioned the fact that it was my birthday on my blog I also pointed out the fact there “were no signs and portents in the sky and the most important thing to happen on that day was a performance by a garage band from Liverpool in a West German strip joint.”
Gosh, I suppose I will be denounced as a joker and degrader now? 🙂
All of those conditions that prevent people from coming to the SS Mesothelioma sound like the kind of stuff that’s covered inthose “Freewinds seminars” that we see weekly in Thursday Funnies. This doesn’t sound like a trolling expedition for suckers to find out that they mocked up thier BTs. It sounds like they’re trying to see which seminars might actually attract an audience rather than throwing Gavin Potter’s shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.
That there are even five OT VII completions per week is hard for me to comprehend.
Brainwashing really works.
As long as you can keep your OT beings shut off from the rest of humanity and equipped with a solid “us vs. them” mentality… Sure, isolated as such,
Brainwashing really works,
Better than your average mouse trap, that’s scientology. I BELIEVE.
Boggles the mind hey?
Of those five, what percentage are in such deep apathy they’ve finally taken the drastic step of falsifying the completion just to end the torture? And all the while with a smile. If you can get that high in that system, you can as sure as hell produce a three swinger under any circumstances. That’s self-determined brainwashing – scientology’s EP. That’s why their numbers are truly down, they’re EPing their flock.
Mike,
From your experience, if you’re able to say without causing any additional drama sent your way, do people actually respond to these? And, if so, could you venture a guess on an approximate number or ratio of replies to the approximate amount sent?
I, like Marie below, wonder what the survey response is like, in general.
I understand you may not have 100% accurate info due to a myriad of factors, but an educated guesstimate would be great if you’re able.
TY
I would not think that more than 2.5% respond
Seems a bit high…..
Well you heard it here first ……….. only a 2-1/2 percenter would respond to THAT!
Yo Dave,
Whaddya say good buddy? When do you start your Oh Tee Ate?
LOL David Miscavige would have to do his Basics, his GATI and GAT II, and he never attested to Clear I, II, III or umpteen million so he would have to get audited up to clear and unattested a few dozen times before he could even consider the OT levels.
WHAT did the Oh Tee eat? I mean, you said, Oh Tee Ate, Coop.
Birds of a feather…
Well…duh! They’re birds for heaven’s sake! Of course they have feathers! Did you start drinking early, I Yawn?
It’s still night time isn’t it?
I don’t know. I’m under the covers typing this.
Ty.
So…you gonna have a playoff?
Heh. Good one, Mike Rinder.
“Fleecewinds”
Very amusing
I just don’t get it. It’s my understanding that if a person has completed OT VII they no longer have a ‘case’ and all the BTs that have been plaguing them have gone bye-bye. If this is the case, what is there for an OT VII completion to handle? What would read on the meter? Wouldn’t they be cause over MEST? The questions in the survey indicate that there is still lots of stuff for the ‘OT’ handle.
I need a ‘tech’ person out there to explain this to me.
I also have confusion on OT VIII. Last I saw of what was published on the internet about OT VIII, LRH was rambling about Jesus being a pervert and that LRH was going to return as a politician or something. I would love some clarification as well if someone has some insight.
There have been at least four different versions of OTVIII. The “Jesus is a pedophile and Ron is the anti-christ” one is Version 2. Due to the negative reactions people had to that particular Truth Revealed, they got rid of that and switched to the Truth Revealed being that you mocked up your BTs.
Thanks for the clarification, Espiando.
I seriously do not understand how this perfect, scientific tech can have 4 different versions.
Also, very strange that apparently OT VII has the BTs going bye-bye and then the Truth Revealed is that you mocked up BTs. Per Sarge, in Marty’s book, LRH was still fighting off BTs until the very end of his life.
I’m so glad I quit this nonsense after about 10 hours of trying to audit OT III about 34 years ago. Oh hell – I just realized I should probably be dead, being in the middle of OT III for so long…. This is never ending nonsense from the cult!
I don’t know if you just made up the bit about the “mocking up your own BTs” cog, but it’s hilarious either way! Got several belly laughs out of me as the different possibilities rolled by. It’s funny from every angle.
That’s the way I heard it too, Espi. I had a copy of the Lucifer edition for a long time. I”m sure it’s still on the internet. But, it does sound exactly like Hubbard wrote it. From what I know, MissCabbage said something to the effect that “We have a defective OT level” I mean, OT8 is called “Truth Revealed” for a reason. And the Lucifer edition fits right in with Truth Revealed.
You’re talking about the version in which Hubbard says he’s actually Lucifer (the light bringer). And Jesus was given to fits of rage and had sex with young men and boys. That Hubbard! He sure can tell a great STORY.
It is rumored, Ms B Haven, from well founded sources, that the EP of OTVII is: “no more BT’s or Clusters…for now”. The only thing OT VIIs may be ( and I say may be) cause over is MESS.
Gosh, Michael, I must be Super Oh Tee, as I’ve causes messes my entire life. Thanks so much for the validation! Now, what to say for my success story: Hmmmmm. GOT IT! I never met a mess I didn’t like!
No no no. The Church OTVIII is a watered down version of the original VIII and takes less than 2 weeks to complete on The Freewinds, contrary to Hubbard’s statement in From Clear To Eternity that the real OT levels “really add on the time” after Solo NOTs. The Jesus pedophile thing was a complete red herring invented by ex-members to denigrate Hubbard and the Church and which Miscavige either pretended had something to do with VIII or it was just so derogatory to the Church anyway, so he got OSA to challenge it in the courts . I have covered all this before in a previous post.
In fact the “VIII” being offered now is the equivalent of the Sunshine Rundown after Clear. It was a little process designed to round off the proper OTVIII, but which (the real McCoy that is ) has now disappeared somewhere at Trementina in the dusty archives or Miscavige’s desk, (picture Gollum saying “My treasure!”) and may be released as OTIX (but who knows?) when the Church run out of money.
Curious to know what the “proper OT VIII” is?
Mike I have sent you an HCOB on this dated 1969 and designated “OTVIII”.
How are you so certain about your information?
Dear Foolproof,
The fact is that there is absolutely no evidence either way ; to verify that the “Lucifer OT VIII” is authentic or not. Yours are just assumptions and opinions and nothing else ; there are certainly not facts, so stop pretending they are, would you ?
TC
Any fool who reads it know it is a crock straight away.
” I will just list one glaring outpoint and after that I can’t be bothered to argue about this: In the Lucifer thing Hubbard mention s Jesus. In the OTIII materials Hubbard says Jesus never existed . The OTIII materials are not revised. Put 2 and 2 together if you can overcome your anti-Scientology bias. The Lucifer OTVIII i s such a complete mish-mash of weird ideas that I am surprise d anyone even contemplates their validity.”
You was the one who brought the argument up, not me, Foolproof ; so now you should have the courage to stand up counter-arguments. Dismissing comms is the easy way out ; willingly presenting sensible arguments and counter-arguments is the only way to learn and arrive at logical conclusions. And as to having “Scientology bias” , any intelligent individual who possesses a free mind and a capacity for competent observation , would.
If you are even trained at the Data Series at all (only to use your own system ; the Scn one, I meant) , you will be able to recognize the following out -points in your “logic” there :
1. In the class VIII lectures (I have listened to them at least 3x each one) , LRH expands his views on Christ and Christianism. He did said, “There is no Christ” , but he also talked about the R6 implant having been “found” 600 years BC , and used by the Roman Catholic Church , which then “became Christianity”. He also said that the Romans frequently used crucifixion , and that we all are shown in R6 as being crucified. Here are some quotes from Ron :
“Also the Christian Church used (and uses) implanting (with a squirrel version of the “7s”). These gangsters were the Nicomidians from lower Egypt who were chased out for criminal practices (implanting officials). They took over the Niocene Creed before the year zero, invented Christ (who comes from the crucifixion in R6 75m years ago) and implanted their way to “power”. The original Nicomidians date about 600 BC and people who were Christ date at 75m years ago. ” – L. Ron Hubbard, Resistive Cases, Former Therapy,HCOB 23 Sep 1968.”
And this one :
“For a long while, some people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyone else, dramatized the whole track implants – if a bit more so. The symbol of the crucified Christ is very apt indeed. It’s the symbol of a thetan betrayed.”, – L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 11 May, 1963″
This was written in the BC era as part of the HCOBs having to do with the R6 materials which were classified as “confidential” around 1962-63. In the above refs you can notice LRH’s EVIDENT antagonism with Christianity, and he even thought of it as a result of the original R6 implant (75 millions ago). But the “Heaven implants” are a LOT earlier than Inc II (the R6 implant). So according to LRH himself, this “Christ game” is very, very long, and one designed to trap us all. Basically the whole of Christianity is designed, according to him, to “continue” the restimulation of the implant which is the one allegedly responsible for the “Heaven v/s Hell” human dilemma and possibly, a reinforcer for the “In-between life’s implant”.
Here another quote where LRH DID SAID, that Christ in fact, existed :
“Neither Lord Buddha nor Jesus Christ were OTs according to evidence. They were just a shade above clear”. Certainty magazine, Vol 5 #10.”
“You’ll find, by the way, another man at this stage, and his preclears will shift the identities and borrow facsimilies. Like men, there’s what they call ‘The Christ Game’ and that game has been played and played and played and play…, honest to Pete, these cards are just so thin, they’ve been laid down amongst the coffee cups, and so forth, of the whole universe. You’ll find out thousands of years before the year 1 AD, Earth, you will have facsimilies and dolls made up like Christ. Fact one: a million years ago is occasionally rigged with Christ and the devil and an angel. It’s a fascinating thing, it’s an old game. Here on Earth, there was undoubtably a Christ. One of the reasons he was … he swept in so suddenly ah, and he, he would go forward so hard, is he had a good assist back of him in terms of an implant.”, Philadelphia Doctorate Course, Tape #24,
It clearly says, “Here on Earth , there was undoubtably a Christ”.
This is not the first instance in which LRH contradicts himself, or changes his version of something. In fact, that tendency was quite common with him. So, LRH DID, DID thought that Christianity was a booby-trap designed to enslave us all with its R6 based design and restimulative factors, , and that the reason we are here allegedly “trapped” in the first place , is related to Christian issues which the R6 implants reinforces. So , in summary (as the “Heaven Implants” are allegedly 43,000,000,000,000 old !!! That’s 43 trillion years !!!) , the issue of “God , Christ , angels , demons , hell , heaven” is one of the key reasons why we humans are “trapped” in the first place inside a body , and into this planet , ALLEGEDLY.
So it is NOT illogical or far-fetched at all to assume that Lucifer bulletin’s allegations are in fact, LRH’s. Moreover, if you have also listened to the BC lectures (I have, 2-3x most of them) , you can also understand more about LRH’s fixation with Christianity, and many Implants which are not discussed, neither at OT II nor at the Clearing Course.
2. Concerning the Lucifer Bulletin containing “mish-mash of weird ideas” , it seems that you lack a chronological knowledge of Scn. LRH had been trying to bring about a stable exteriorized state since before the PDC lectures. EVERY TIME, each exteriorization routine (the many SOPs , Route 1, etc) failed to bring a stable exteriorization. Then came the old OT levels , and none of them worked as expected. Then he “found” that the real bog was NOTs phenomena getting in the way , and placed NOTs before the original levels. The OT VIII of 1969 couldn’t have been LRH’s OT VIII of 1980 after his research into NOTs.
In the Lucifer bulletin he explains how he had never been able to produce stable exteriorizations, and that he erroneously had thought that he had tackled it, first with the discovery of R6, then with the Purification RD (cause it allegedly handled BTs on drugs) , and then with NOTs. New OT VIII was allegedly designed (per that bulletin) to handle those reasons that kept one pinned to the body. The Lucifer bulletin perfectly match with the alleged role that the GE have in controlling the body , and allegedly drive it towards death. At NOTs , the GE is never discussed or handled in any way , but its role in freeing , according to dozens of lectures and writings , is quite large. And how curious it is that the NEW OT VIII is begun with W/Cing the “History of Man” book , but the material itself is not used when auditing OT VIII in the “False ? / True ?” regarding past life memories. Yes , may be the data on “Loaned Banks” from HOM applies to a degree , but absolutely nothing else applies.
And then the Lucifer bulletin talks about the “Biological Implant” implanted at Inc II of OT III , which sound a lot to me , that it is GE related.
Now, how on hell is that a “mish-mash of weird ideas” ? Those ideas are in fact, LRH-like, and logically follows LRH’s line of thought as described in all the above quotes , and all of his materials on Scn’s cosmology.
He being the “Anti-Christ” or “Lucifer” , which actually means (by my OWN research into this area , and NOT assuming ANYTHING from LRH as true) ,”Light Bringer” , perfectly match Scientology’s cosmology. It is sort of inferred that LRH was the leader of the Loyal Officers that finally caught and put behind “electronic bars” the infamous Xemu. This match with LRH’S comment at the class 8 lectures that he “wasn’t R6ed” (he didn’t receive inc II). It is inferred throughout the BC lectures that he played major roles at the “Galactic Confederacy” before it turned into the “Marcab Confederacy” which is like the evil empire from the Star Wars movies. He infers that he was a major player. So, it is not any crazy to believe that he thought that he came to Earth with a very special “mission” involving “salvaging” this whole sector.
The forces of the “Anti-Christ” actually representing the fight against the “Dark Side” , represented by the Marcab evil forces and its implantation of humans to keep them entrapped ; and the “Side of the Light” representing getting humans to finally understand how have they been deceived for millennia. I am sorry, dear Foolproff, but it all perfectly match Scn’s cosmology and LRH’s known delusional mind. Only a want-to-be-blind would fail to connect all the dots and arm the puzzle. I HAVE armed the puzzle, at least to my own satisfaction.
The fact is, that even though there isn’t enough evidence to decide whether Lucifer’s bulletin is authentic or not, the chronological history of Scn’s cosmology and LRH’s idea about Christianity with the role it allegedly played in enslaving humans, makes the balance inclines more towards believing that such a bulletin is in fact, authentic.
That’s how I see it. And I am no fool at all. I have absolutely nothing to envy or desire from any class VIII I know ; absolutely nothing. I have a full chronological understanding of all of Scn in a very long research project in which I engaged in for the last 12-15 years which was a lot more intense and through than the BC and class 8 course. So you are not addressing here a dilettante “Theetie-Weetie” kind of guy , just so you know , and be clear about it.
TC
Here is a link for LRH’s HCOB 11 May 1963 , “Routine 3 , Heaven”. Everyone here interested enough , read it , and then state whether or not the Lucifer bulletin does connects with all this pretty well.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/heaven.htm
I will just list one glaring outpoint and after that I can’t be bothered to argue about this: In the Lucifer thing Hubbard mentions Jesus. In the OTIII materials Hubbard says Jesus never existed. The OTIII materials are not revised. Put 2 and 2 together if you can overcome your anti-Scientology bias. The Lucifer OTVIII is such a complete mish-mash of weird ideas that I am surprised anyone even contemplates their validity.
Well… how deep does the rabbit hole go with an answer to that? Geezers…
Basically, if I recall it right there’s a few analogies that go with the concept you are trying to seek or under understand. But you are trying to understand what scientology represents in a nutshell, even Hubbard couldn’t do that.
“The attainment of ecstasy without knowledge,” is one reason why you need to go further. Processing (auditing) is only half the journey. You have to end up knowing “why” to complete your Total Freedom trip. Otherwise it’s not going to last very long or you’re never going to get there anyway. This universe is the trap to end all traps according to Hubbard. If you know what ARC is, then you have an inkling of the nature of the beast that swims around you. Go into ARC with something and that’s the beginning of the end for you as you eventually become what you oppose. It’s not so much the liking of something, it’s the natural decay with aging bodies and other beings and the environment fighting you along life’s journey and the consequence of you changing your mind about things etc that “get ya!” And of course you forget about all the bad things and carry on. Only this time a little bit less aware of certain things or you’re becoming opinionated without really knowing why or even caring to notice that you are opinionated, bigoted etc. Trying to grasp that there’s a spiritual side of life is a trip in itself. There’s more to what you “think” than you’ll realise and it’s a tough game to get any sort of agreement, another facet of the trap.
“Up the pole” was another term coined in the 50s for suddenly becoming aware there’s more to this life game than you’ve been led to believe. You sort of realise you’re a bit alone with that realisation that so many alleged experts in the field of life haven’t a clue what they are talking about. Hubbard played around with that a lot and came up a system so you can go up and down the pole without going “whacky.” It’s very lonely up there. That’s more or less what the Bridge is about. But is essence if you’re going to be truly free you gotta know what ails you as a spiritual being, bodies and their baggage get in the way of that. That’s what Dianetics is supposed to handle and Scientology takes you the rest of the way. It’s not so much that scientology doesn’t work, it also that beings don’t know or disagree that there’s a problem in the first place. What’s that saying? The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was getting you believe he doesn’t exist.
The Bridge presented today in the Cof$ is a false bridge to absolutely nowhere, it’s a dangerous mind fuck. Maybe there is no such thing anyway but life doesn’t have to explain itself to you or anyone else does it? It trudges on regardless, doing it’s thing.
The old adage in Scientology of days gone by to your question was “buy a book.” That isn’t relevant anymore as there’s no-one in any church organisation that understands or can apply what’s in the original books anyway. The upper OTs levels in the Cof$ are pure fiction manipulated to create money and zombie like devotion, don’t try to understand them or their sequence, they are not logical in the slightest.
Others will disagree with what I’ve written above, I’m not concerned about that but I hope it sort of answers something for you.
I Yawnalot, Wow, you are saying a lot here. Thank you for a detailed post of your thinking. It’s more than I can absorb in a single reading so I’ll continue to review it. Some of my own thinking about the “logical” parts of scio need to be reconsidered.
Lots of typos but I think you get what I was trying to say.
To be able to “up and down the pole” at will and at cause is the goal of scientology as I see it. All this fancy bs about super OT powers and mest handling by thought etc is just PR and a trap in itself. You’ve been there before as a spiritual being and mest beings in their greater organisational skill made a game out of you (thetans are naturally pretty unorganised. not much fun or randomity there). Nothing pleases a lower life form more than to eliminate threats to existence and free, uptone beings upset the apple carts just for fun.
A well run and openly friendly org with pre 1982 processes I think is a marvel of activity but alas was brief. Be wary of what miscavige ever touched and Scientology and Dianetics as subjects has a lot to offer. Google LRD ED 117 and see what was completed when.
Check out ‘wise old goat’ on google too. Good luck!
I Yawn, My problem is that giving and receiving auditing was such a unique and cool experience that I have a lingering wish that someone somehow will make parts of scio work. That “practice” would take someone to some level of self actualization and then say “This is as far as we go here. We wish you well on your continuing journey.”.
I think that what you are saying is that would not be possible since dianetics and scio inevitably lead one into questions such as “Who am I” and “What is the true meaning of life.” This leads one into a scio construct with no end result.
I have said in the past that my conclusion about scio is IT DOESN’T WORK. I need to internalize that and this helps.
I hear you, I really do.
I guess the point we all eventually consider, is when one contemplates what works, compared to what doesn’t work. Can we name the goals and desires we actually seek? Or are they impossible to actually obtain, or is it the randomity like the game of lotto that’s desirable? Maybe just getting swept along trying to steer some sort of financial destiny is as good as it gets or seeing a bright and safe future for your kids is the go etc? But how does one measure or gauge spiritual success?
If goals are body bound, they are body bound. In fact if they align on the dynamics entirely we will continue to act, behave and be monitored by composites. Spirituality is a different game and has different goals in my opinion. Combining and understanding the two I believe is where the proper game is at this time, but the playing field here on earth is pretty messed up. Any game of force that runs for a long, long time can’t be considered sane I believe. Just a single bullet in the hands of an idiot can alter things dramatically, same with a drunk driver.
Bodies and spiritual discussions are very difficult to separate in a workable sense. Yet the fact remains bodies don’t last very long before they start breaking down and pretty clearly begin to do their own thing later in life. For me it’s easy to see the “me” now but there’s very limited things I can do physically like I use to. It messes with separating out what’s new and old goals and are worth keeping. Apathy is battle to keep an eye on, it’s very sneaky, just like degrees of unconsciousness.
To say something doesn’t work will always be personal & time sensitive, especially if it ends up forgotten. What works for me is probably not time aligned with what works for you anyway. And if we put that in a spiritual framework, well… better sort out what time is then, otherwise it’s down the chute we go once again.
There is such a thing as home universe imo, but it’s yours and no one else’s. That can be difficult to grasp from a human perspective that is monitored by human desires objectives and dynamic influences. Self invalidation is a pretty major hurdle. We do live composite lives, can you think or contemplate otherwise?
I Yawn, Well once again you get my mental wheels churning and it’s time for more review – lol I’ll say a few things off the top of my head. Just a bit of me first. I’m 70 and “went dianetic clear” on the dianetic drug rundown in LA around 1984. Shortly thereafter The Great Exodus began and I split along with hundreds of others and so escaped indoctrination into OT. Many “blown scio discussion groups” sprung up and I joined one but that’s a different story.
I do keep a spiritual side to my life. My thinking above is that trying to use axioms, games conditions,Theta creation of universes, statics, etc. would only create an eventual belief system. How the universe was created, what existed before the Big Bang etc. is valid scientific study, but little use imo to spiritual advancement.
With that said I don’t know for sure whether my past lives recalls were real or instantaneous mental imaginings. In fact it doesn’t even matter to me at this time. I’m here now and learning and applying things I’ve learned from studying the blogs which to me for now is spiritual advancement.
Lastly, I have had random non scientology “peak experiences” in the past which in my reality prove that “higher planes” of existence or awareness exist. It’s just that at my age I’m not ready to go meditate in a cave for years to reach them!
Yep, I’m close to that age too, 9 years younger anyway, but am on first name basis with more than one doctor..
I guess the peculiar thing with me and scientology is that I no longer rely upon contacting nor require the past understood via auditing of incidents on the time track. There are other forms of CSs and study to follow. Auditing is limited and is not the end all, for even it needs to be run out at some point.
Overrun is a serious affliction with this technology imo and requires constant monitoring that you don’t. The human condition is far from forgiving in that aspect and is also part of the things I believe needs to taken in context as to what goals you desire or think are obtainable. Gradient scales are essential.
It’s a trip all right but the Axioms and particularly the Qs and Logics are of immense value imo. It took me 30 years to work that out and to see their application. Logic 4 was screwed over by miscavige. Hubbard corrected it in 1952 10 Nov I think, research it and you’ll see what a difference it makes.
Best regards with whatever you do or want.
Hi Richard D, I like your post. Made sense to me. At 18 I would have loved to meditate in a cave. At 64 not so much. Love, Ann.
I yawn, I really liked your post, I share your realities, it’s fairly simple actually but I’m not so sure that I could articulate it on this blog as well as you did. What it is is what it is. Thanks.
🙂
I Yawn, I’m glad you responded. No reply button above so I’m posting here. I see my comments above as arrogant and know it all. I sometimes feel centered and then feel empty. I’m working on that.
My question to you is that I see in the blogs that those who have done the OT levels seem to take an interest in the idea of theta cause over universes etc. Those discussions were beyond my ken. Using the word introspection in a positive sense as reflecting inward, it seems that by doing the OT levels some people have touched levels of reality that are under scientific investigation and also mentioned in other religions and practices. Any thoughts on that? If not that’s ok. I’m new to blogging and learning to keep my eval/inval out of conversations.
Wow Richard. That’s quite the question and truly, scientology today as it is presented and talked about and now vilified has turned truly criminal. It is nothing like it was 20 – 30 + years ago.
I guess I have studied it quite extensively if I looked at it but I concentrated for years on the basics such as the Axioms, Logics etc. This may seem strange, maybe even weird to you. I am often attacked if I open “my mouth” in many forums but the actual “practice” of the subject is very precise and is very susceptible to error. Training to be an auditor ends up being very precise and takes dedication but it also takes a sane and equally dedicated “team” behind them. That is called an Org. Under miscavige they have been destroyed and many old times lament that quite deeply. The org’s in the early 80 to late 80s adopted a saying. ‘If it’s not fun it’s not Scientology’ and as a young intern auditor and supervisor I have never worked so hard at anything in my life, but the rewards so created were there. There is nothing that can explain to another what it is like validate the beingness of another in such a way. Yet that beingness is nothing more than the person themselves shinning through. A standard auditor is the most friendliest person you can ever find imo.
The state of OT has been ‘marketed’ and so abused that it is unrecognisable. Universes exist, you are one, so am I, then there’s this one we are communicating through. There is no 4th dimension but there is an infinity of universes, we make them all the time but man no idea how to turn them off or in scientology parlance , start, change and stop them at cause.
To be cause over them basically takes nothing more than being yourself. But that my friend is quite the trick. It’s simplicity is what makes it so difficult to grasp but I believe the path is there, it’s just that it got hijacked by a bunch of morons.
I don’t know what else to say, these forums aren’t very effective places to have conversations of this nature but at least with Mike he monitors with a sanity seldom found elsewhere on the net. Mikes an example of a friendly being.
I Yawn, We are on the same wavelength here
“like it was 20 – 30 + years ago” Esprit de corp and camaraderie was the name of the game.
“strange . . even weird to you” Not at all. The intrigue of exploring the unlimited potential of the human mind was what drew me in. Regarding axioms, logics etc. my earlier statement should have read something like ”exploring axioms, logics, creation of universes etc. is not appropriate For Me At This Time.” I am in fact a newbie in scio “recovery”. The level of introspection required to do the OT levels, regardless of fantastical parts, would imo uncover levels of experience quite outside of ordinary living as you demonstrate above.
“equally dedicated team behind them” My overall dismissal of scio as a subject is that I see no way to deliver it without indoctrination and programming, although the hope is still there that someone may in the future. ThetaClear has vast knowledge of scio procedures and imo is on intellectual par with LRH. He might be the one to do it. Of course he would need a team just as elron did.
“what it is like to validate the beingness of another” The true joy of auditing, giving and receiving.
“these forums aren’t very effective places . . ” It’s the best there is at this time and has helped me immensely. The day to day topics go by at warp speed for me and like you I am grateful that Mike allows discussion.
This topic imo is the heart and soul of scio or applied philosophy as it should be, exploring human potential. I hope Mike posts a version of it again in some form so others can enjoy the discussion it generates.
Instead of Top of the Bridge Freewinds should be re-christening for “The Bottom of Hell”
That’s an insult to all bottom of Hell dwellers.
What is interesting about the items on this survey, is that they are no different than those at the bottom of the Bridge.
MOBEY DICK is waiting for the Fleece Winds to sail and send her to David Jones’ Locker.
False stats, out Tech, out Admin, out Ethics and just plain Evil are the Execs there that a more fitting fait should be. Arrr you Pirates and fellow SP’s bottoms up! Lets celebrate this here sinking! 13 men on a dead man’s chest HOO HO HO and a bottle of rum!
“Heigh, my hearts! cheerly, cheerly, my hearts!
yare, yare! Take in the topsail. Tend to the
master’s whistle. Blow, till thou burst thy wind,
if room enough!”
“We are merely cheated of our lives by drunkards:
This wide-chapp’d rascal–would thou mightst lie drowning
The washing of ten tides!”
(The Tempest by Old Bill)
I always wondered if people actually answer those surveys?
Great survey….it begins with two wrong indications (you want to be on the freewinds and you have barriers in being there). Then ends with what could be considered a listing question. How upsetting can it be to have someone tell you you have something you don’t feel you have and that you want to be somewhere you don’t want to be. And then to ask you what one thing you can achieve if the barriers you don’t feel you have are resolved. I doubt they could get people there if they said it is all free including the airfare.
To be Flag Public at all you have to be an IAS Patron ($50,000.)
That’s a Blue on Blue Order signed by David Miscavige himself.
Benny the IAS rep hit’s you up for$100,000.as soon as you walk in the door
which is Patron something or another to impress D.M. then in Ethics you are
body slammed for $300,000. for lucrative starts ups that are designed to
1. bail out the COB’s idiot programs that create death and criminal scams(on top of criminal scams)
2. pad D.M.’s account for PI’s,Lawyers,and expenses on the object of his phobia’s and deep seated fears.
Lisa Mc Pherson was a Patron which earned herself status to be CS’ed by David Miscavige.
Rex Fowler was on OT7 and was brainwashed for the $300,000.trip.
Why there is anyone at all at Flag is the mystery.
OT 8 on the Freewinds has been butchered just to increase income
from those already run through a calculated money wringer.
Desperate only scratches the surface.
Hi Jose Chung, Here is a Miss Ann question. How could David Miscavige C/S Lisa McPherson when he has not audited as far as I know. He is after my time, and I know he can C/S anyone he wants because he is cob but somehow it rings very hollow. Love, Ann.
Jose Chung, FYI, I don’t know about the AO at Flag but I did grades at Flag Oak Cove a few years ago and was no more than Lifetime IAS; not Patron. Could be different for OTs perhaps?
Freewinds is back in Barbados again. They’ve been off their usual ABC+C route for a while. Three monster cruise liners are looking down at them right now.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-59.6/centery:13.1/zoom:10
Wow! What a cool web site! Thanks!
In 1989, I arrived on the Freewinds to do OT VIII. It took TWO WEEKS total – (1) Short sec check in (2) OT VIII (3) Short sec check out. I Advance Paid for the whole thing and no other money was spent in those two weeks.
In 2009, I arrived on the Freedwinds to do NEW OT VIII. It took TWO MONTHS total – (1) Long sec check in (2) 5 days of NOTS (Yes, I had just finished NEW OT VII) because of sea sickness. (BTW, still get easily sea sick when I sail) (3) MAA handling to get all my “Participation” disapproved (which had all been approved at Flag ahead of time) and do a very long Ethics Handling to get posted on the OT Committee Org Board and get out of Non E on my new post, plus a ton of other shit to prove I was worthy of doing OT VIII (again), as well as get regged by MAA for money. (4) Clear check ascertained I was NOT Clear (Four previous Clear Checks ascertained I was Clear, including the one done in 1989 on the Freewinds) – therefore, had to do NED and go Clear (for real this time). (Try not to think of the Clear Cog when you know what it is.) (5) New OT VIII (6) Sec Check Out.
None of this includes the MANDATORY “briefings” twice a week (and they WILL come get you out of your cabin if you “no show.”), plus the other surprise briefings for JUST you – nor does this count all the times I was pulled into the IAS office (because I was walking down the hallway) for another briefing – nor the number of times I had to watch the Tom Cruise’s film – nor the times you get pulled in by a C/S or your D of P to get regged.
It’s a whole case study and PhD dissertation to explain why I, or anyone, would put up with this. When I walked off I KNEW I would never hold the cans again.
The above questionnaire is asking all the wrong questions; I guess because they can do nor ever have done anything wrong.
Mary, I didn’t realize you were in up until a couple of years ago. And from your description of the Fleecewinds, why would ANYONE go back again?
Because the public today are a different breed, I suspect most younger than us.
When I completed the Happiness Rundown and did another OCA the C/S grinned as the happy part was a bit lower than before. He joked “I expected this from you LOl”
This was fine by me as he was a good friend anyway.
But the point I am making is he knew as well as I that no way would I or anyone else in those days tolerate being told or sold “Do it again as its the NEW version.
That was because LRH was alive and still researching, and we trusted him.
How anyone after 1986 fall for the evil dwarf’s rhetoric and proven lies shows what todays public is.
Gullable and stupid beyond belief with little integrity despite attesting to Advanced Course completions.
Someone did once say “there’s one born every minute” and they go into todays Scientology Orgs.
So they deserve everything they get.
As never-in, my natural default position is to agree that they deserve everything they get.
I know this. And it is thoughtless of me. Cruel and uncaring, as well.
I constantly remind myself to reserve judgements until AFTER the brainwashing (and it IS military grade) is lifted. How the Scilons behave after this, then we can assign the what they deserve category.
Except, of course, the topmost echelons of Co$ and some whales, who do KNOW about the scamming, feed at the cherch trough, and actually know better: they are indeed deserving of all the get, and the more we can heap upon them!
It’s so illuminating to read OT’s comment on this site. My problem when I was ‘in’ was I couldn’t afford to go up the bridge. So while I was ‘in’ and for along time ‘out’ I thought I missed a lot of wonderful, magical stuff. To put it mildly I no longer feel that way. Thank you all so much.
You’re perfect just the way you are, Good People. You are the prize you were looking for…
Yes, Good People, I think part of the “problem” with me with finishing New OT VII and New OT VIII, was that I had a lot more money than when I did those levels in the 80’s. Plus, the church’s modus operandi changed, where I suspected and since had it verified that my Programs and Tech Estimates were padded. (It’s called Fraud.) So, Refreshers were taking me longer and then the ship experience was its own brand of extortion and fraud.
Here’s the bottom line folks: If the church didn’t have a hold over my family, friends, etc., then I would have told them that I no longer wanted to do New OT VII after the first six months. Coupled with that hold was 40 years of wrapping my mind around the rules and that system of belief. Voila! Prime Patsy was I, but I was broken when I walked off the ship.
Hi McCarran, You are another of my heroes. I know what you mean about being broken. Years ago I was broken too, as at 4:00am I stood in the shadows at Highland right beyond the Hollywood Inn. There was a drugstore there and I had to wait over 45 minutes for a yellow cab( which I could not believe actually existed in LA ) to take me to LAX. From the fire into the fire. It was so strange that whole day traveling back to Boston. I was so torn up and felt I was on a strange, new planet. I now realize how isolated I had become in the Sea Org and from your post I am sure you may have felt that at times on the ship. So so glad you post here. I hope 2016 brings you all you may desire. Love,Ann.
Thanks Ann! Yes. It was a slice of hell.
Best wishes to you too for a very happy, healthy 2016.
GP, the good news is that now you are “out” you can actually afford and get correct tech!
Yes, OSD, I walked off the ship January 2010. To make a long story short, I would have just drifted away; let my family do whatever the hell they wanted to do in the church and kept my mouth shut. Not to be, however, for a myriad of reasons. So, November 2013, I was officially declared.
And that declare is your badge of honor, Mary. Getting out in ’82 was very simple for me. Not so now.
You are way smarter than I am OSD.
No, Mary, I don’t think so. I just said what was on my mind re attesting to the state of Clear (I never did) and turned the org upside down.
IMcCarran, ‘d love to hear the myriad of reasons that you got declared and were not able to just stay under the radar. Your time track on this and mine are within a month or so of each other. So glad you made it out.
Bravo.
McCarran’s comment explains exactly WHY people don’t want to go to “The Ship” in the first place because of what they’ve gleaned from others, or never return.
It supports Mike’s points two and three above perfectly.
And yes McCarran, we know how the church is unaccountable and cannot be held responsible for anything it does. Asking people about needing/doing Exchange by Dynamics or Conditions by Dynamics – seriously? This is so offensive and demeaning to people. Anyone with any level of self-respect would stay the hell away from there, which it appears that most people have done by now.
Exactly right, Hennessy. If “they” want to know why people don’t want to go to the Freewinds, then they should trash that questionnaire and read my statement above. I saw SO many BI’s when I was on the Ship (but of course, no one talks about it).
I guess enough money wouldn’t be made nor wasn’t made when one could go onto the ship, do just what they went to do and then come home – like the first time. From 1973 to 1991, I did everything I could do as a public except the Class 8 course. It cost in the 10’s of thousands. In 2005, I routed onto NEW OT VII; from 2005-2009, I paid 100’s of thousands for that one freaking level, plus all the other pushes and IAS “briefings.” Yes, I know, I’m an idiot… but my point is that the church changed and not just monetarily. I used to feel it was about me. Once back in in 2005, it became very noticeable that it was not about me; it was about the church.
I agree McCarran, that things changed drastically in the 2000’s but I can’t agree that you are an idiot! No, you were “in” and that’s the way it is until you get out. Simple as that. Cheers 🙂
LOL. Yes. That’s it. Thanks for the kindness.
+1. We were all in, Mary. Just, some got out sooner than others. But, being out means you get your life back!
Geeze Christ!! For real? Feel for you, this is really really AWFUL!!
Geeze .. My wife had a similar problem .. I told her .. if you can cause that flies do dance twist in front of my eyes .. you may be qualified for something of this bullshit .. but not earlier .. so let it go .. if you can not .. you will never come up ..
Hi McCarran ; that’s an incredible story indeed !!!
Like you, I believe that it would take a whole PhD thesis just to explain why Scientologists agreed to go through all that bs for so many years.
I have a few Qs if you don’t mind me asking them , and feel comfortable answering them.
1. Was the 1989 version any different than the 2009 one ? In what ways?
2. What was the reason that you was C/Sed to re-do OT VIII ?
3. If you had voiced the famous (or rather infamous) “Clear Cog” , then what were the criteria to determine that you were not Clear ? What were the “indicators” according to them ?
Thanks in advance. I think, the more these things are publicly discussed, the more others that are still under the undue influence of the cult, even when they have already left the CofS, will wake up.
Best regards ,
Peter
No problem, Theta Clear.
(1) The 1989 version and the 2009 version of OT VIII itself seemed exactly the same. The check sheet was longer, however, as extra basic stuff was added.
(2) Because now it was New OT VIII or OT VIII Expanded (LOL). You know, now that I had completed “New” OT VII with its extra added GAT I enlightenment … bla bla bla.
(3) Because I had the Clear Cog in scientology auditing, dianetic auditing. When checked for clear earlier (like in 1987 when I attested to OT VII the first time), I was shown a bulletin where LRH said, “It is rare to go Clear in Scientology auditing…” Fast forward, now it was “impossible” to go Clear with scientology auditing. It was no longer “rare.”
(3)”scientology auditing, NOT dianetic auditing.”
Thanks for your detailed answers, dear McCarran ; I appreciate it. I am really sorry that you had to go through so many arbitrary factors.
What is your stand regarding Scientology in PT ? Did you throw the baby out with the bathwater already, or do you still use whatever works for you from it ?
Peter
I think there’s good in it and I received good from it, ie, The Communication Crs, Life Repair, etc, and some of the auditor training and delivery.
I personally think there is a lot of it that should be shit canned, like the PTS/SP Crs and KSW, the Ethics Crs, etc. As Far as the OT Levels – not for me.
But mainly I think people should be allowed to believe what they want but be able to speak their own truth about what they believe and what works for them and what doesn’t, without repercussions, which flies in the face of the absoluteness of The Bridge.
Peace to you man.
Piece of what?
McCarran, thanks for letting us know how it was ont he Ship in 2009. I went to the Ship in around 2006 and it was just as bad as you say. I imagine now it is even worse as their public pool to fish from and reg has shrunk even more. I even knew a “famous” Power FSM, OT VIII, Class VIII who has a field practice, and he said when he went on the Ship he hid out from the registrars and recruiters in the Ship library. They kept scouring the ship looking for him and searching his cabin. Sorry I let your hiding place out, Michael.
OH, one more thing I just remembered. When I went to the Ship, all the people there for OT VIII sat at a special honorary table just for them at dinnertime. I saw my friend and brought my plate over to sit with her, and a steward asked me to leave. They explained that the OT VIII table is only for OT VIII’s. I later pulled her aside and asked if she is allowed to leave that table and eat with an old friend at a different table? She said sheeplishly, no the VIII’s have to eat together at their designated table and not mingle with others and others can’t eat at their table. Why? I asked. She said because they don’t want any of the OT VIII’s getting enturbulated by or having their needles dirtied by those lower on the Bridge.
I thought at the end of OT VII, you were “Cause Over Life” and that would include cause over not getting enturbulated by other “theta OT’s.” I mean it’s not like you’d be sitting with Jack the Ripper or something. The Ship Quals you before they ever allow you to step on their hallowed ground, so theoretically, there should not be anyone on the ship that would upset an OT VIII. But the registrars, now that’s another story.
Hi Cindy, Oh my your post gave me chills. And to think at one point in Sea Org I would have done whatever I was asked if the ep was to be on The Apollo for life and after the ships were done with ,then Clearwater.ANN! What was I drinking? The ka by the galleon until I wised up. Really good post. Love, Ann.
Love to Ann B. That was then and this is now and then later this will have been then and that will be now. What made sense in one context no longer makes sense outside that context. Be as kind to your-self as you are to the rest of us. ~Chris Thompson
Hi Chris Thompson, A wise post indeed. Thank you and may I wish you a beautiful 2016. Look forward to reading your posts in the coming year. Where does that time go? Love, Ann.
Yes, Merry Christmas, Ann. The time? I don’t know! hahahahaha!
🙂
“I thought at the end of OTV II you were ‘Cause Over Life’, and that would include cause over not getting enturbulated over other ‘Theta Ots’. I mean its not like you’d be sitting with Jack the Ripper or something.”
Thanks for this much-needed laugh, Cindy.
Hi Cindy, I do not blame Michael one bit. If I had had the joy to be sent to the $Winds, I would have hung out in whatever showers had there with the water on full blast! Of course I could not do that forever so how about te engine room or in my case the Ethics Officer would probably go there first. Laughter Love, Ann.
In march 89, I was sitting at home, trying to solo audit on Not’s. Actually, I was just in Flag in december 88 trying to attest solo not’s. But they wouldn’t let me. I went home, tried to audit, couldn’t get anything to audit. The phone rang, with a voice of a dragon it was a woman call in from Flag. She said “senior CS int has reviewed your folder and like to indicate you that you are complete on solo not’s and that you should go immediately to Flag and attest to it, and go straight to the ship and do OTVIII.”
I did, I arrived sunday night. Believe it or not, thuesday night I attested to solo not’s. Wednesday morning a guy from tech service knocked at my door : “You’re expected in the HGC to do eligibility for OTVIII. I went to the HGC, the full sec check was completed in one session in about 1 hour. Meanwhile they handled my luggage that I found on the van where I was sent after my session! Airport, fliying to Miami, then to Aruba. I just discovered the ship on wednesday evening. Thursday morning I started the routing form for OTVIII!
No eligibility at all on the ship, I started OTVIII (not the “jesus was a pedophile” but the False/true with track incidents, starting with a CS53 to fning list)
2 weeks of total fun. So much excited that we would sleep a couple of hours and being not tired. Big “attest party” every night. Absolutely personnal and uncontrolled succes story. Telling their life on stage. Like “I was smoking some hash on Hollywood boulevard and someone sold me a dianetics”. Telling their life, very very cool.
I finished OTVIII and I have to say that we were all quite happy, having the idea that finally scientology reached it’s ideal scene. Before to leave I did the routing form for OTIX. The target was 1000 OTVIII before to deliver IX. There was already 500 OTVIII at this time. We were in april 89, we thought to come back in september for OTIX.
In summer there was bad news about OTVIII being sick. There was suddenly bad indicators. Was odd as we were VVGIS with OTVIII. Myself I had weird somatics. I thought out tech or PTS.
We were all recalled on the ship. I choosed to go out of curiosity. Maybe they found some outpoints.
I arrived on the ship in october.
The change was huge, it had become very very very low tone. There was an OTVIII speaking on the phone to his wife, he was crying, saying that he had cognited how low tone he was…
The master of the ship was Paddy, the MAA. All the OTVIII were writing pages of OW and get them checked by Paddy.
I saw Paddy and told him that maybe people were key in because OTIX wasnot yet delivered. I didn’t know the new policy.
He started to scream “You fucking OTVIII, 1,1, you’ll have OTIX when all orgs will be saint hill size! You better work.” I llistened to him amazed. he added : OTVIII are all faggots !
I was ordered to sec check and retained 3 weeks on the ship, keeping my passport.
That was not the same scientology than in march.
I felt like a prisonner, it was horrible.
Hi FG, Thank you so much for your amazing post and perspective. You filled a lot of spaces for me concerning what was to transpire on the ship in the 80s.Your last part was so well done as to what had changed there. I guess you made me remember some of the fun crazy times on the Excalibur in 74. Days & nights were not always good of course but one hot August day a group of Asho F’s Div 7 showed up dock side. All the expediters were ordered off ship onto the pier ( which was huge). Suddenly from where I have no clue fire hoses came out and we all had a water fight! Imagine that on the $Winds today. Always, Ann.
FG, thank you for sharing your story. I’m happy that others are stepping up and vouching for McCarran and Mike’s points and validating what they are saying.
I can imagine by now the ep of OT VII is simply pure relief. After you have spent more than the median US household income for the last 20 years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
just grinding through ONE level, not to mention all the “incidentals” such as IAS statuses, incessant calls, emails, OTC meetings simply for the privilege of being in the level, you are told:
“Great start, now are at the beginning. You can start the first REAL OT level, the rest of those (what? 25-35 years of your life?) were just prep for the real thing.” Hmmm…. How is that not demoralizing?
How anyfreakingbody has the stamina to make it to OT VIII is beyond me. After reading Andy Porter’s story here, I realize I am not alone in believing that there are a lot of people who are just slogging along on it hoping there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
OT VIII would seem like prison to a newly complete OT VII IMHO, not something to look forward to.
Uhm … here’s an idea … they could get Kirstie Alley to actually MOVE to the freewinds. She could eat dinner in shifts with different public each night and then later in the evening do a little cabaret to entertain them. This should bring in one or two extra public each quarter.
What if she trips and falls on some public? I mean, with her size, it’s certainly not going to be pretty.
Hi OSD, Y’all really have me laughing today thank you! Love, Ann.
Good point. Have you seen her cankles lately?
As well as her thighs? They’ve gone condo…..
Joe, would they set up Kirstie’s little tent for her in the dining room (like the one at the Sandcastle) so people can’t see her?
Dress her in her own burka. Kind of like a walking tent. lol
She could host a party under that Burka….
I don’t know, but given what I read about the condition of the ship and the condition of Ms. Alley I wouldn’t be surprised if the ship sank as a result.
Ms. Alley was at the back of the ship for quite awhile and actually raised the front part of it.
I’d like to weigh in here (pun intended) to state that the reason we don’t like Kirstie Alley is because she is because she is a stupid, foul, lying sociopath-enabling koolaid drinker and not because of her weight.
Just like we dislike David Miscavige because he is a dangerous, conscienseless sociopath and not because he is short.
Just saying.
Hi Mike, Truely mind boggling especially that survey! The black smokestack gets me too. On the old Excalibur they were navy blue with white if I recall correctly. Black hearts on an old ship such a deal! Love, Ann.
It’s risible that they would include options to teach people about their finances, the local org used to remind me of a sinking ship trying to pull as many of the remaining staff and public down with it as possible, they had to borrow constantly to cover their bills and I’m sure still are, the miracle is that they are still there at all. The only reason these higher level orgs are still there is because of all the money they suck out of what is left of the crumbling empire. NOT getting advice from scn about my finances has done wonders for my personal wealth and well being. Perhaps this is the lesson for today, you need to leave scn to find out just how much better your life could be without it, stop trying to convince yourself of the wonders it is doing for you. After a few basic courses you will have gotten all you are likely to get out of scn, you really don’t need to spend your life with them nor give them your life savings.
Do you think that unsubscribe me list at the bottom actually works? Or do they just send you straight to ethics if you click it? Im guessing the later.
N) its free
O) we act like other churches and dont charge you the price of a new house to come on board
P) a quest appearance by degraded being
Q) we promise to keep all the reges on shore
R) food glorious food
S) a special quest appeance by LRH’s very own body thetans
T) dave petit will serve you breakfast in bed.
U) nothing at all will get me onboard that floating money pit of doom.
Hi Dave, Nice to meet you. What a good post. Thank you. I am with you, no voyage on that ” floating $ pit of doom ” for me either! Always, Ann.
I’ll pass on li’l Davey serving breakfast in bed: the permanent odors of cigarettes and whiskey I DO NOT love, first thing in the morning!
I wonder if they’ll understand that no response IS a response.
@Robin, I doubt it, if they did, they wouldn’t call you hundreds of times from hundreds of numbers just because you didn’t answer.
Hi Valerie, That is for sure! Some days I really have to wonder how long this con can be kept going. At some point it has to start sinking. Love, Ann.
Robin, they’ll take a no response and consider it a yes. Then comes the knocking at your door at 3am…
I take it “obnosis” is no longer a term they use then. 🙂
They don’t even know the meaning….
OSD – LOL!
Is seasickness caused by BTs?
Not even the Catholic Church owns a frikin cruise ship! Or private jets. Unbelievable!
scientology owns no private jets, unless you count Cruise’s or Travolta’s. But there are plenty of Catholics who own private jets too…
Pretty sure DM has a private jet after he got jealous TC’s. Bought in the late 2000’s if i recall correctly
No, that’s not correct unless I missed something. Why would he need to buy one when he has access to Cruise’s whenever he wants? Or can charter one any time he wants?
Makes sense. He’s a recluse who travels occasionally, so hiring or borrowing a jet is easy. If he were a real jet-setter, then he would certainly own one.
Thanks, Mike.
BT’s do not cause seasickness. In fact they really like being on the ship when it goes up and down. They also like roller coasters and all other carnival rides that go up and down and in circles. It is the most action they have had in years. The dizzy and seasick feeling a person experiences is just BT’s in exhilaration. If you want your BT’s to be happy just run in circles and jump up and down….they love it! Those rave success stories from the Cause Resurgence Runaround are from happy BT’s.
Hi Potpie, I love your post! Thank you. xo Ann.
OMG.. how funny is this. If anyone checked any of these items on the list.. they would be admitting they hadn’t achieved the stated gains through OT V11. And if they don’t check any of the items on the list..(I mean at OT V11, one is cause over Eternal Totality right?)… then the Fleecewinds will never see anyone…lolol And if OT V111, 1X and X are the REALL OT Levels…then they have just created an entire ARC Broken Field ,again!!.. (or further compounded the existing ARC Broken field)that, having spent millions of $$$ and years getting to OT V11, have been told they really didn’t achieve REAL OT. What a mess. Lovely. lolol Terrible sentence structure but it all came gushing out. I know y’all understand. :0)
Hi Judi – so nice to see you here 🙂
Hi Judi
Nice to see the graduates of Scientology showing up here… Hope and trust all is well. I will mention your comment to Dave R today.
I was on OT VI in 2005 and couldn’t figure out how to get off course without completing it… I finally did it by paying money to everyone on my R/F, buying books, etc… Anyway in the GAT Age I would think most people completing any level, but especially VII or VIII, don’t sign up for more abuse unless they have a business or children in the SO they might get disconnected from…
“… overcoming your barriers to arriving at the first of the actual OT levels.”
Wait just a cotton-pickin’ minute! Am I reading that right? After going all the way through OT VII, you still haven’t done an actual OT level? If I were OT VII and read that, I’d be pretty fucking pissed right now.
Well hgc10, it’s the truth … YOU HAVEN’T!
hgc10,
The levels up through VII are considered negative gains because you have to get rid of something to get somewhere (You have gotta lose those pesky Bee Tease). Oh Tee Ate is the first Oh Tee level where you supposedly get something without having to get rid of something to achieve it.
Up through Oh Tee Sevin it is of course all negative gain unless you believe otherwise. After parting with half a million or so you would have a psychotic break if you thought you got nothing out of it! But when you get onto Oh Tee Ate you now have to give up more cash (and add in lots of time for sec checks on the fleecewinds) and then you are expected to become a ward of Dave (the dildo) Miscavige and spend all of your time on the Oh Tee Committees and help the MAAs (who at any time can come into your life and demand your participation report) get ethics in on the planet.
What’s not to like about that? Don’t get pissed …….. get even. Call up an old cult friend today and say hi. And for gawds sake, get yourself declared! The sooner the better! No more mail, no more regges, no more phone taps (I mean calls) and no more of the same old shit that got you into this mess in the first place!
Hi Newcomer, Y’all are firing on all cylinders today! Love your post. XO Ann.
Negative gains, huh? That’s right up there with dry rain. Hot snow. Armored Jesus. Trump veracity. Four legged chicken. Rose-scented farts. Hubbardian romance. All lies from the pit of Hell.
Hi HGC10,
Don’t leave out the box of “powdered water” and the “stagnant wind velocity.” 😉
What…hgc, did you not get the memo? For crying out loud, it’s been this way for awhile now. Those so-called OT levels you took were just practice levels so you can gradually work your way up to the REAL OT levels. So, hgc, I would advise you go get your butt in gear and head for the Fleecewinds RIGHT AWAY so you can FINALLY start on the REAL OT levels. Up until now, you’ve just been screwing around and ethics in NOT amused…..
I have record here of countless wins proclaimed by millions of Scilons.
Ummm….yeah. You’re so-called wins, hgc? Have been cancelled. Apparently you’re connected to millions of people who are PTS. Face it, hgc, the first 7 OT levels, ummmm…how do I say this…aren’t.
OSD, I am devastated. I’m going to have to mock up a jelly doughnut to assuage my pain.
Hey, don’t be mocking up my favorite doughnut! I’ll go into withdraws…..
Gotta love a survey that at it’s core is asking you “tell us how to get you to give us the rest of your money.”
Difficult to conceive of anyone actually returning the survey! Now matter what answer you give, they’ve got an explanation as to why you should go to the Fleecewinds to “get that handled”. The survey itself indicates another petcock opened, deep in the bowels of the ship, letting in another unending flow of water.