I wrote this two days ago about my experience at Flag in a FB group: “The coffee was so bad in the dining hall I’m laughing remembering it. It was like they re-used the grounds. This was a deal breaker for me. Pre-Starbucks. Now there is a Starbucks on the corner, but I assume staff are forbidden.”.
When I was at Flag back in the 80s as an outer org trainee, there was no Starbucks. There was however an old hotel across the street from the Ft. Harrison called the Gray Moss. Scientologists joked and degraded it by referring to it as the Gray Mass. No matter, at least you could get a decent meal there and the coffee was way better than the cult offered. Unfortunately I had very little money and was only able to dine there a couple of times. The restaurant at the Ft. Harrison was out of reach financially for me, but the mission that sent me popped for a Thanksgiving dinner there. The waitstaff jokingly referred to coffee as ‘liquid TRs’. Drinking staff cafeteria coffee was just about as enjoyable as a two hour blinkless TR session. Gawd I’m glad I’m outta that fucking cult. Just the simplest pleasure such as enjoying a decent cuppa coffee with some friends is out of reach for some staff members. How sad is that?
Yep, been there, done that too Ms. B, and then regretted every moment for a while. But now it’s an occasional type of hauntingness. Life would be a lot better without family still stuck in the mirror maze of Scioland.
I guess there’s a point where, if you invested too much for too long in stupid, it becomes normal. There’s a lot to ‘sigh’ about when Scientology has their grubby claws in your family or too much of your past.
When I was FSO staff about 1980 we were in the mess and we had these machines which dispensed milk. They had a hose on the bottom. I got some milk and drank it. It was like gasoline. ( I know; I have accidently drunk gasoline while trying to siphon gas.
I drew a skull and crossbones on my voting sheet and taped it to the machine as a warning.
Chris Mann, there is absolutely no question that the coffee grounds were re-used. And any unfinished cup of coffee, complete with floating cigarette butt, was thrown into the mix. I would be appalled and aghast if such gross practices were not done in the name of scientology.
I was FSO staff in the early 80s and I was walking down Ft Harrisson Blvd and a Mack Truck came by. My body tried to run in front of it and it was all I could do to hold it back. Maybe I was not supposed to post that. It would have been an overt to tell stuff like that to an auditor ( If you happened to see one) because it might make you unqualified for the SO and that would be as bad (or good) as blowing. Anyway I never got the opportunity. I was sent off to die of AIDS after no medical care after getting a bad blood transfusion in 1989.
Whatareyourcrimes
Thank you. I have been pretty much homeless for the last few years. My 2005 Mustang was stolen last year in Hemet a few miles from the Int Base and I was in the hospital with heart failure a few days later. The AIDS has been under control for 15 years and is no problem. What I really need is a decent job so I can support myself and get another car. I am in Dallas now staying with a friend and working for Steve Hall cleaning yards literally from dawn to dusk. Still seems like a libs day compared to the SO. I was in the SO since I was 20; am 59 now and was the Repair Chief Freewinds for 16 years. I can repair most anything mechanical and most things electrical.
I do not live anywhere near your area of Dallas, but I know there are many sympathetic people in your area, and absolutely NONE of them are scientologists. People in the Dallas area, can we please rally around DMTNT??
Hi Dead Men Tell, I am sorry you did not receive proper medical care early on 🙁 It sounds like the handling of extremely ill SO members did not improve between the “transition” of Hubbard to DM… Shocking (said with more sarcasm than you can possibly imagine)!
Once in LRH’s nightly letter to his wife (pre-recorded for my nightly transcription) he informed her he was sending away one of the original SO members because he was very ill, “we can’t have him dropping his body here”…
I hope you are somewhere safe and receiving proper care now.
These are the people who profess to able to set you free hey?
What’s that song, “bring on the clowns…”
The comedic value of Scientology is matched and then trumped by a great sadness that eventually permeates through everyone who gets involved with it.
If anyone who’s ever done OT3 and above there’s an interesting article on Ortega’s site done a few day ago concerning Atack’s conversations with Mayo. Hubbard sure blew a fuse, quite often. If anything, I’d say the catalyst of many of his insanities was his smoking and total disrespect for his own health. Sigh…
I was never in the sea org, but I had many encounters with sea org recruiters. One recruiter was trying to convince me that my considerations around conventional ideas of success (like being able to feed, cloth and provide shelter for oneself) were just ‘case’, my ‘reactive mind’ getting my way of genuine spiritual freedom. To drive the point home, he told me that he was actually able to buy some underwear! This was proof of his incredible ‘havingness’ level. By being in the sea org, he was able to HAVE underwear. BOY WAS I IMPRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!! Honest to gawd, this actually happened.
With all the prosperity seminar fliers that we see in the Thursday Funnies here, you would think that this ridiculous mindset would be the polar opposite of what scientologists are led to believe. It isn’t. It works like this. If you are a public person with money or the potential to get money you are regged within an inch of your life to drain any and all financial resources that you have. If that isn’t the case, there is no sense in wasting time trying to reg you, so you become fodder for staff and sea org recruiters. Regges try to get you to obtain as much money as possible (they call it flourish & prosper) and recruiters try to convince you that money isn’t necessary (cuz you sure as hell aren’t going to have any once you join staff).
Well do I recall the disdain Sea Org members would express concerning the paying of bills! Feeding, clothing, housing oneself; not wrecking one’s credit or getting income tax liens or getting evicted. As if living respectably and supporting oneself, paying one’s creditors on time were a crime. Well, to THEM it was a crime. Or, if not an outright crime, at least, declassee 🙂
These people always made me uncomfortable. I tried not to show it. Depending on my mood I pitied or resented them. My gut instinct was simple: they were shit-for-brains to be avoided whenever possible.
Being a scientologist automatically affords one declassee status. Being a sea org member is WAY below that. It’s as if you have ceased to exist by normal societal standards. Just ask ex-sea orgers about their experience of applying for a job after bailing out of their billion year contract millions of years early. There’s big blank spots on your resume as if you were in prison unless you do some embarrassing ‘splainin’.
Agreed, on all, Ms. B. We’ve just GOT to get those people OUT of there. And the older ones, the elderly SO who can no longer work, and then those in for decades who have no work experience to put on their resumes, well, here’s what I think:
There’s a LOT of money in this country. Lots and lots of uber rich people, and ordinary people, who like to help others and will contribute to it. Now, once the cult folds and if there is the correct publicity concerning the plight of these ex-SOs I think that FOUNDATIONS could easily be set up and funded by wealthy and no so wealthy donors that would assist ex Sea Org of all ages, getting them back on their feet, routing them to the proper places for whatever type of help they need. Even classes coaching them on how to get a drivers licence – I don’t know, all kinds of stuff.
And I don’t think this is Pie IN The Sky wishful thinking because once it gets generally known what Sea Org life was like, and that, in this day and age, in the US of A this kind of horror has been going on, I think there could be a lot of help out there for ex-SO, of all ages. I think the general public will be amazed and horrified and there will be tremendous sympathy and concern once the true situation is well known and understood.
I hope it’s not wishful thinking. But… just opening up to “close friends”, coworkers and family, after keeping my mouth and ears shut for 30+ years (having left the CMO and DM in the early 80’s in my late teens) has brought me nothing but grief.
Loss of (non-scientology) friends, family, and ultimately my job. My boss was super supportive at first after I watched the Going Clear documentary last year (and flipped out). But that didn’t last long… neither did my friends and family.
I am glad to at least now have internet so I feel like I can talk to this support group. I haven’t had internet at home for six months, so even that felt eliminated.
Everyone loves you when you’re strong, resilient, keeping your mouth shut, and buying them what they want. The minute you fall down (which will happen eventually to anyone who has lived through the trauma of the SO, at one point or another and hasn’t really deal with it) – you are abandoned by almost everyone. Those who don’t know anything about Scientology think you’re insane. Those who have educated themselves by watching the documentary, Aftermath, or their own research are scared *hitless to have anything to do with you. “How can you put your family in this kind of jeopardy, even considering your mouth?!!!”, etc.
BTW, I was not, and have not yet (to my knowledge) been declared SP, but I am sure that is soon to happen.
Enough for now – I can still only say, and “take” on so much at once. But…
I think a much stronger support group is needed for people who “wig out” after many years of keeping their heads buried in the sand. After many, many years of building a “WOG” life, it can all be pulled out from under your feet in a week. Sadly, people are inherently selfish (sorry, that’s how I feel at the moment).
I know what you mean about how you can be judged, no matter what you say, after being in. You’re either “that poor soul” who was abused or “how could he be so stupid to go into a cult like that??”. I can relate to everything you said here.
I knew that things were off the rails in 1982 when things started falling apart and people were leaving, including a close family member. I listened to everything they had to say about it but decided to stay in BUT, with one eye open.
Fortunately, I successfully avoided both the reges “I’m not a cycle – save your time and go talk with someone who can really get you a product today” and the SO recruiters.
Now, I’m out but hardly anyone knows. In my new relationships with wonderful people in the world, I never mention it. I don’t have any books visible in my house. I still use “the tech” – what I found works for me – and I have a few friends who are out. I don’t even tell the majority of the people who are out that I’m out. News spreads like wildfire.
Part of the reason I stay under the radar is so that, when friends find themselves in a bad position with the church – being attacked or mistreated so badly that they finally see what’s happening – I’m there to give them the truth at the gradient that they can have it. 90% of the people I’ve done that with have gotten out. So happy about that.
Plus, I would rather run the underground railroad than be strung up in the town square.
A dear friend of mine is going to a counselor who specializes in people who have been in cults. He’s enjoying the experience and shaking off a lot of leftover stuff from the SO. They are doing a lot better in life. VERY “PTS” to the middle class. haha. 🙂
One thing that’s difficult to shake after being in the SO seems to be that “You pulled it in” some how. Not true. Check out this bit from the lecture, “The Descent of Man”. This is one of the few places where I’ve heard Ron admit that some things are just not your fault.
“Full responsibility contains the willingness to let somebody else be responsible, too.
Now, any malcondition which is persisting is being misowned. It may be that the person did it and is saying somebody else did it and has a picture, then, which is misowned. He’s saying, “I didn’t run the car into the tree. I didn’t run the car into the tree. The actuality is she was talking so much and so hard, she distracted me so much that the car ran into the tree and I didn’t do it. I didn’t do that.” And they’ve got the accident right there all the time. They ran the car into the tree and they made the picture. Just like that. And they’re shoving the blame off on somebody else so it persists.
“But equally they have other things which they’re saying, “I did it. I was a nag, I was a bum, I should have lived better. I did it.” And the thing’s persisting. And they didn’t do it. Their wife went bad or their husband left them from other causes than their own action and behavior. And this person is accepting all of the responsibility for some other person having done something terrible or dreadful and is feeling bad about it when the actuality is they had nothing to do with it!”
So, you see, you didn’t do it. You did what you did, ok, fine. But the things you DIDN’T do, they don’t belong to you. You didn’t do it.
You can find this whole transcript at the following link. Actually a ton of transcripts. Use control+F to bring up a search bar and then put in “Descent of Man” to find it.
This made me cry good tears. I inadvertently made my life a living hell last April/May. After watching the Going Clear documentary, I flipped out with worry about my friends that I had left (two very high ranking CMO INT persons) locked up under armed guard in a bathroom at PAC when I initially “blew” the SO. (I was found shortly, and drug back, to route out “properly”. This of course included many hours of being berated, called a whore, etc. by DM personally).
Anyway, I flipped, and before I did enough research to find out that my two friends in question had made it out and were safe, I found an article about Doreen Gilham that said she had escaped, but then died in an “accident”. I wigged out even more and started talking to my boss. I knew she had watched the documentary, and was watching the “Aftermath” programs, because she talked about them with our department staff. Ironically, she convinced me to speak out. I posted a comment on (this blog I think?) that if DM were to read, he would know was me. My boss even edited the comment before I posted. After posting the comment I became totally paranoid that DM and henchmen would hunt me down. Of course I lost my job along with hundreds of friends (because, well, I WAS a nutcase at that point 😉
Thankfully I’m over the paranoia now.
Thank you very much for your supportive comment. I haven’t had internet access for many months, and out of my hundreds of friends and close family, I now can count those on one hand.
Having internet access now, being able to reach out to this support group, AND actually look for work, will provide me the ability to turn things around!
Thanks again,
LostCMO
Ms.Psays
So true Aqua. Living respectably, you were considered “PTS to the middle class” and shown such disdain. I never understood this friggin saying “PTS to the middle class”. One minute you’re told to prosper and flourish so you can pay all your bridge and IAS, this is ok to do BUT mention buying new car and you’re PTS to the middle class. Like you, I avoided these fanatics like the plague. And learned basically not to share with anyone if I was going on a trip or buying anything.
OMG, yes. I’m flinching just reading what you wrote because I remember the feeling of having to HIDE paying down my credit cards, or, if I’d be asked, “Is that new?” I’d sort of stammer how I got the stupid sweater or scarf or something on sale! I’d feel guilty! I mean, how nutty is that? And its not like I was ever extravagant with myself. And I was actually a pretty soft touch where the cult was concerned, mostly. One of their favorite lines, besides the “PTS to the middle class” that they’d throw at you, was – get this, “Money is trash to a thetan”. Well this worked on me for years, and then one day, out of the blue, I answered, “Yes, money is trash. Except when the org wants it.” Whoa! 🙂
Thanks for your feedback on this, Ms. P. I was brought up generously – not that we were rich, no, just that my parents and relatives were open handed people. So I was brought up to be that way, and I myself liked being that way.I still do. But in Scientology, I felt like whatever I did was never enough. This got communicated all the time – not in these words exactly, but conceptually: “Well, Ok, thanks, you did something, but its possible if you REALLY WANTED TO you could have done better.” Never, ever enough!
Oh my Aqua, “But in Scientology, I felt like whatever I did was never enough. This got communicated all the time – not in these words exactly, but conceptually: “Well, Ok, thanks, you did something, but its possible if you REALLY WANTED TO you could have done better.” Never, ever enough!” You hit it on the nail.
I feel we are kindred spirits you and I. So many times you make comments that hit home with me. We’ve gone through so many similar experiences that I don’t comment on, no need to cause you say it all and are more eloquent.
Hopefully we will meet up one day at OSD’s beach bash, the celebration of DM’s downfall.
Ms. P, we will definitely meet at OSD’s beach bash! I’m glad we’re tracking, and that sometimes you say what I’m thinking and don’t have to say it, and sometimes its vice versa. I think the most important aspect of this blog is realizing that what we each of us here for years did not share with others, out of guilt, out of fear, were actually very common “witholds”, that others were handling much the same, or precisely the same issues in precisely the same way. So funny that we each thought: “I’m the only one who thinks like this about (whatever)…better just keep it to myself…” and now, on this blog, we find out the truth. Looking forward to meeting you and everyone who can make it. We are going to have one hell of a party!
Ms. P., I don’t remember if the ‘PTS to the middle class’ is an official scientology thing or not. The first time that I heard the phrase was during the Kingsley Wimbush ‘de-dinging’ era in the very early 80s. Ironically, it was during that time period that staff actually started making better money than with ‘standard admin tech’. Everyone at the mission I was at was applying this de-dinging shit and the place was abuzz action. Things were happening. Not necessarily in a good way all the time, but things were definitely happening. It was at this time that I first caught a clue about the financial condition of a typical staff member. I overheard a conversation between the senior c/s and another staffer. The c/s was married to the academy course supervisor, both were very dedicated so I cringed when I heard her casually say to the other staffer that they were finally able to afford to buy a roll of paper towels. Unbeknownst to me at the time, they were both moonlighting to try to make ends meet as well as sharing an apartment with another staff couple in the same situation. These were some of the more highly ‘trained’ staff members so they should have at least been able to make a very modest living wage. They weren’t, they actually fit the definition of working poor. Working their asses off but not making enough to get by. And these were high times for staff members. It only got worse from there. Way worse.
Okay – declassee, French, dey-klah-sey’, 1. reduced to or having low or lower status. 2. reduced or belonging to a lower or low social class, position or rank.
Use it in a sentence – “In my house I’m declassee to our shi tzu.”
(joke – I’m equal status)
Ever hear of a “coffee out”? Eight or ten people would go to a free coffee refill restaurant and shoot the bull. Everyone would drink cup after cup, eventually dropping out one by one until the last man standing (and wide awake) was the winner. I’m not sure if that’s part of my scn experience – unable to date and locate it at this time.
A true jail house economy that goes very nicely with a barbed-wire fence designed to keep folks sequestered inside, confiscated passports, and all the rest of it
When on mission staff, we were given weekly quotas to write letters to the public, to get the “Letters Out” stat up. A few of us used to shoot craps to dump our quota onto the others. I quit early as I always seemed to lose at craps, haha!
Geez,I just had a flashback to my pot smoking and LSD trip days when I had conversations like this making deals with friends to get a high or someone’s taco from munchies. Thanks Mike. I feel regraded now. Is that the right lingo?
Sad: That good people are reduced to this degraded level.
Ironic: That with an actual world view barely extending beyond their next meal, cigarette or cup of coffee, these are the people who are “getting Ethics in on the planet”.
Tragic: The wasted talent. That none of this is helping. The utter uselessness of it all.
Yes, summed up well Aqua.
The contempt for life exampled by staff members (public too) believing they are on the road to becoming some sort of “God” is hard to think with for any length of time. The longer you think about a solution for it the harder it becomes to reconcile. Yes… The utter uselessness of it all.
Yes, the blind leading the blind.
How does that compute. An HGC team handling the most powerful technology on the planet that is being paid slave labor wages? That seems like an incredible outpoint to me.
Thanks RB you present us with the irony of this incredibly insane cult.
Yikes, this is a little too close to home for someone stuck at ITO during the OEC/FEBC evolution (revolution?) way back when. All the class V orgs had to send people and very few of us were getting paid. I couldn’t take rice and beans one more meal and had just enough for a drink at the pizza place. So I’m drinking my sugar dinner and staring at the girl from France so hard she got self-conscious and gave me a cigarette.
That wheeling and dealing for micro transactions is all too real.
Don’t worry, though, I blew just before Christmas and when they called to say Davie “commanded” me to be at the new years event I told them I’d be anywhere they wanted if they sent a plane ticket. They sent a freeloader bill instead! Owing tens of thousands to flag bureau was my ticket to freedom. “Sorry, I cant attend your event until I pay this off…” ha ha. “When do you think you’ll have that paid off?” *explosive laughter*
They sent me a bill every week for 10 years. Occasionally someone would put a penny on my account. I assume to get the stats up. Such good times…
I know that feeling. My first week on the Apollo.. I had zero $ – someone on board had stolen my only good sweater, and I desperately wanted a smoke. I would have done anything! Guess things haven’t changed much..
It did! A train for loading freight at the dock the Apollo was moored to, ran into it. Sank it at the dock. Apparently it damaged too much of the ship’s infrastructure and down she went. I posted the details last year when I stumbled across it. The interesting thing was the owners could not be contacted/found, as they were part of some sort of secret organisation put together for the ownership. From memory I think it’s in Texas or one of the gulf states. A fitting “Venus” type incident to end the once infamous Flagship of Scientology.
I’ll try to find the original image of the report, I’ve changed computers since.
Well, rat piss and horse piss as expressions have been around for awhile but rhino piss got me laughing “in a new unit of time”. Thanks RB
I wrote this two days ago about my experience at Flag in a FB group: “The coffee was so bad in the dining hall I’m laughing remembering it. It was like they re-used the grounds. This was a deal breaker for me. Pre-Starbucks. Now there is a Starbucks on the corner, but I assume staff are forbidden.”.
When I was at Flag back in the 80s as an outer org trainee, there was no Starbucks. There was however an old hotel across the street from the Ft. Harrison called the Gray Moss. Scientologists joked and degraded it by referring to it as the Gray Mass. No matter, at least you could get a decent meal there and the coffee was way better than the cult offered. Unfortunately I had very little money and was only able to dine there a couple of times. The restaurant at the Ft. Harrison was out of reach financially for me, but the mission that sent me popped for a Thanksgiving dinner there. The waitstaff jokingly referred to coffee as ‘liquid TRs’. Drinking staff cafeteria coffee was just about as enjoyable as a two hour blinkless TR session. Gawd I’m glad I’m outta that fucking cult. Just the simplest pleasure such as enjoying a decent cuppa coffee with some friends is out of reach for some staff members. How sad is that?
Yep, been there, done that too Ms. B, and then regretted every moment for a while. But now it’s an occasional type of hauntingness. Life would be a lot better without family still stuck in the mirror maze of Scioland.
I guess there’s a point where, if you invested too much for too long in stupid, it becomes normal. There’s a lot to ‘sigh’ about when Scientology has their grubby claws in your family or too much of your past.
Very sad indeed! Who has time to enjoy a cup of decent coffee with a friend when there is an entire universe to salvage? It’s terrible.
When I was FSO staff about 1980 we were in the mess and we had these machines which dispensed milk. They had a hose on the bottom. I got some milk and drank it. It was like gasoline. ( I know; I have accidently drunk gasoline while trying to siphon gas.
I drew a skull and crossbones on my voting sheet and taped it to the machine as a warning.
Chris Mann, there is absolutely no question that the coffee grounds were re-used. And any unfinished cup of coffee, complete with floating cigarette butt, was thrown into the mix. I would be appalled and aghast if such gross practices were not done in the name of scientology.
Smashing form this week RB.
I think the only way to get get out of a their debt situations is to jump in front of a moving bus.
I was FSO staff in the early 80s and I was walking down Ft Harrisson Blvd and a Mack Truck came by. My body tried to run in front of it and it was all I could do to hold it back. Maybe I was not supposed to post that. It would have been an overt to tell stuff like that to an auditor ( If you happened to see one) because it might make you unqualified for the SO and that would be as bad (or good) as blowing. Anyway I never got the opportunity. I was sent off to die of AIDS after no medical care after getting a bad blood transfusion in 1989.
Hey Dead Men Tell, scientology might have cast you aside, but we won’t.
How can I help you?
Whatareyourcrimes
Thank you. I have been pretty much homeless for the last few years. My 2005 Mustang was stolen last year in Hemet a few miles from the Int Base and I was in the hospital with heart failure a few days later. The AIDS has been under control for 15 years and is no problem. What I really need is a decent job so I can support myself and get another car. I am in Dallas now staying with a friend and working for Steve Hall cleaning yards literally from dawn to dusk. Still seems like a libs day compared to the SO. I was in the SO since I was 20; am 59 now and was the Repair Chief Freewinds for 16 years. I can repair most anything mechanical and most things electrical.
Hi Dead Men Tell No Tales,
I do not live anywhere near your area of Dallas, but I know there are many sympathetic people in your area, and absolutely NONE of them are scientologists. People in the Dallas area, can we please rally around DMTNT??
Hi Dead Men Tell, I am sorry you did not receive proper medical care early on 🙁 It sounds like the handling of extremely ill SO members did not improve between the “transition” of Hubbard to DM… Shocking (said with more sarcasm than you can possibly imagine)!
Once in LRH’s nightly letter to his wife (pre-recorded for my nightly transcription) he informed her he was sending away one of the original SO members because he was very ill, “we can’t have him dropping his body here”…
I hope you are somewhere safe and receiving proper care now.
These are the people who profess to able to set you free hey?
What’s that song, “bring on the clowns…”
The comedic value of Scientology is matched and then trumped by a great sadness that eventually permeates through everyone who gets involved with it.
If anyone who’s ever done OT3 and above there’s an interesting article on Ortega’s site done a few day ago concerning Atack’s conversations with Mayo. Hubbard sure blew a fuse, quite often. If anything, I’d say the catalyst of many of his insanities was his smoking and total disrespect for his own health. Sigh…
I truly feel sorry for all those bartenders and pretend seafarers wandering around Clearwater and L.A. scientology centers.
They are such lost humans, giving up the best years of their lives for… ?
They accomplish nothing and are stressed out about impossible tasks and endless busywork.
This has gone on just too damn long.
I was never in the sea org, but I had many encounters with sea org recruiters. One recruiter was trying to convince me that my considerations around conventional ideas of success (like being able to feed, cloth and provide shelter for oneself) were just ‘case’, my ‘reactive mind’ getting my way of genuine spiritual freedom. To drive the point home, he told me that he was actually able to buy some underwear! This was proof of his incredible ‘havingness’ level. By being in the sea org, he was able to HAVE underwear. BOY WAS I IMPRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!! Honest to gawd, this actually happened.
With all the prosperity seminar fliers that we see in the Thursday Funnies here, you would think that this ridiculous mindset would be the polar opposite of what scientologists are led to believe. It isn’t. It works like this. If you are a public person with money or the potential to get money you are regged within an inch of your life to drain any and all financial resources that you have. If that isn’t the case, there is no sense in wasting time trying to reg you, so you become fodder for staff and sea org recruiters. Regges try to get you to obtain as much money as possible (they call it flourish & prosper) and recruiters try to convince you that money isn’t necessary (cuz you sure as hell aren’t going to have any once you join staff).
Interesting, Ms. B _
Well do I recall the disdain Sea Org members would express concerning the paying of bills! Feeding, clothing, housing oneself; not wrecking one’s credit or getting income tax liens or getting evicted. As if living respectably and supporting oneself, paying one’s creditors on time were a crime. Well, to THEM it was a crime. Or, if not an outright crime, at least, declassee 🙂
These people always made me uncomfortable. I tried not to show it. Depending on my mood I pitied or resented them. My gut instinct was simple: they were shit-for-brains to be avoided whenever possible.
Being a scientologist automatically affords one declassee status. Being a sea org member is WAY below that. It’s as if you have ceased to exist by normal societal standards. Just ask ex-sea orgers about their experience of applying for a job after bailing out of their billion year contract millions of years early. There’s big blank spots on your resume as if you were in prison unless you do some embarrassing ‘splainin’.
Agreed, on all, Ms. B. We’ve just GOT to get those people OUT of there. And the older ones, the elderly SO who can no longer work, and then those in for decades who have no work experience to put on their resumes, well, here’s what I think:
There’s a LOT of money in this country. Lots and lots of uber rich people, and ordinary people, who like to help others and will contribute to it. Now, once the cult folds and if there is the correct publicity concerning the plight of these ex-SOs I think that FOUNDATIONS could easily be set up and funded by wealthy and no so wealthy donors that would assist ex Sea Org of all ages, getting them back on their feet, routing them to the proper places for whatever type of help they need. Even classes coaching them on how to get a drivers licence – I don’t know, all kinds of stuff.
And I don’t think this is Pie IN The Sky wishful thinking because once it gets generally known what Sea Org life was like, and that, in this day and age, in the US of A this kind of horror has been going on, I think there could be a lot of help out there for ex-SO, of all ages. I think the general public will be amazed and horrified and there will be tremendous sympathy and concern once the true situation is well known and understood.
Aquamarine, I agree with you. Those people are worth helping.
I hope it’s not wishful thinking. But… just opening up to “close friends”, coworkers and family, after keeping my mouth and ears shut for 30+ years (having left the CMO and DM in the early 80’s in my late teens) has brought me nothing but grief.
Loss of (non-scientology) friends, family, and ultimately my job. My boss was super supportive at first after I watched the Going Clear documentary last year (and flipped out). But that didn’t last long… neither did my friends and family.
I am glad to at least now have internet so I feel like I can talk to this support group. I haven’t had internet at home for six months, so even that felt eliminated.
Everyone loves you when you’re strong, resilient, keeping your mouth shut, and buying them what they want. The minute you fall down (which will happen eventually to anyone who has lived through the trauma of the SO, at one point or another and hasn’t really deal with it) – you are abandoned by almost everyone. Those who don’t know anything about Scientology think you’re insane. Those who have educated themselves by watching the documentary, Aftermath, or their own research are scared *hitless to have anything to do with you. “How can you put your family in this kind of jeopardy, even considering your mouth?!!!”, etc.
BTW, I was not, and have not yet (to my knowledge) been declared SP, but I am sure that is soon to happen.
Enough for now – I can still only say, and “take” on so much at once. But…
I think a much stronger support group is needed for people who “wig out” after many years of keeping their heads buried in the sand. After many, many years of building a “WOG” life, it can all be pulled out from under your feet in a week. Sadly, people are inherently selfish (sorry, that’s how I feel at the moment).
CMO Lost – 100%, friend.
I know what you mean about how you can be judged, no matter what you say, after being in. You’re either “that poor soul” who was abused or “how could he be so stupid to go into a cult like that??”. I can relate to everything you said here.
I knew that things were off the rails in 1982 when things started falling apart and people were leaving, including a close family member. I listened to everything they had to say about it but decided to stay in BUT, with one eye open.
Fortunately, I successfully avoided both the reges “I’m not a cycle – save your time and go talk with someone who can really get you a product today” and the SO recruiters.
Now, I’m out but hardly anyone knows. In my new relationships with wonderful people in the world, I never mention it. I don’t have any books visible in my house. I still use “the tech” – what I found works for me – and I have a few friends who are out. I don’t even tell the majority of the people who are out that I’m out. News spreads like wildfire.
Part of the reason I stay under the radar is so that, when friends find themselves in a bad position with the church – being attacked or mistreated so badly that they finally see what’s happening – I’m there to give them the truth at the gradient that they can have it. 90% of the people I’ve done that with have gotten out. So happy about that.
Plus, I would rather run the underground railroad than be strung up in the town square.
A dear friend of mine is going to a counselor who specializes in people who have been in cults. He’s enjoying the experience and shaking off a lot of leftover stuff from the SO. They are doing a lot better in life. VERY “PTS” to the middle class. haha. 🙂
One thing that’s difficult to shake after being in the SO seems to be that “You pulled it in” some how. Not true. Check out this bit from the lecture, “The Descent of Man”. This is one of the few places where I’ve heard Ron admit that some things are just not your fault.
“Full responsibility contains the willingness to let somebody else be responsible, too.
Now, any malcondition which is persisting is being misowned. It may be that the person did it and is saying somebody else did it and has a picture, then, which is misowned. He’s saying, “I didn’t run the car into the tree. I didn’t run the car into the tree. The actuality is she was talking so much and so hard, she distracted me so much that the car ran into the tree and I didn’t do it. I didn’t do that.” And they’ve got the accident right there all the time. They ran the car into the tree and they made the picture. Just like that. And they’re shoving the blame off on somebody else so it persists.
“But equally they have other things which they’re saying, “I did it. I was a nag, I was a bum, I should have lived better. I did it.” And the thing’s persisting. And they didn’t do it. Their wife went bad or their husband left them from other causes than their own action and behavior. And this person is accepting all of the responsibility for some other person having done something terrible or dreadful and is feeling bad about it when the actuality is they had nothing to do with it!”
So, you see, you didn’t do it. You did what you did, ok, fine. But the things you DIDN’T do, they don’t belong to you. You didn’t do it.
You can find this whole transcript at the following link. Actually a ton of transcripts. Use control+F to bring up a search bar and then put in “Descent of Man” to find it.
http://www.liferepairspecialist.com/ScientologyMaterials/index.php?dir=00_3+WRITTEN+Materials+-+Books%2C+Coursespacks%2C+Checksheets%2C+etc%2FTape+transcripts+in+order%2F5506C03+Anatomy+of+the+Spirit+of+Man%2F
You have a lot of rightness about you. Find those and find more. Rinse and repeat. 🙂
Thank you Indie8million,
This made me cry good tears. I inadvertently made my life a living hell last April/May. After watching the Going Clear documentary, I flipped out with worry about my friends that I had left (two very high ranking CMO INT persons) locked up under armed guard in a bathroom at PAC when I initially “blew” the SO. (I was found shortly, and drug back, to route out “properly”. This of course included many hours of being berated, called a whore, etc. by DM personally).
Anyway, I flipped, and before I did enough research to find out that my two friends in question had made it out and were safe, I found an article about Doreen Gilham that said she had escaped, but then died in an “accident”. I wigged out even more and started talking to my boss. I knew she had watched the documentary, and was watching the “Aftermath” programs, because she talked about them with our department staff. Ironically, she convinced me to speak out. I posted a comment on (this blog I think?) that if DM were to read, he would know was me. My boss even edited the comment before I posted. After posting the comment I became totally paranoid that DM and henchmen would hunt me down. Of course I lost my job along with hundreds of friends (because, well, I WAS a nutcase at that point 😉
Thankfully I’m over the paranoia now.
Thank you very much for your supportive comment. I haven’t had internet access for many months, and out of my hundreds of friends and close family, I now can count those on one hand.
Having internet access now, being able to reach out to this support group, AND actually look for work, will provide me the ability to turn things around!
Thanks again,
LostCMO
So true Aqua. Living respectably, you were considered “PTS to the middle class” and shown such disdain. I never understood this friggin saying “PTS to the middle class”. One minute you’re told to prosper and flourish so you can pay all your bridge and IAS, this is ok to do BUT mention buying new car and you’re PTS to the middle class. Like you, I avoided these fanatics like the plague. And learned basically not to share with anyone if I was going on a trip or buying anything.
OMG, yes. I’m flinching just reading what you wrote because I remember the feeling of having to HIDE paying down my credit cards, or, if I’d be asked, “Is that new?” I’d sort of stammer how I got the stupid sweater or scarf or something on sale! I’d feel guilty! I mean, how nutty is that? And its not like I was ever extravagant with myself. And I was actually a pretty soft touch where the cult was concerned, mostly. One of their favorite lines, besides the “PTS to the middle class” that they’d throw at you, was – get this, “Money is trash to a thetan”. Well this worked on me for years, and then one day, out of the blue, I answered, “Yes, money is trash. Except when the org wants it.” Whoa! 🙂
Thanks for your feedback on this, Ms. P. I was brought up generously – not that we were rich, no, just that my parents and relatives were open handed people. So I was brought up to be that way, and I myself liked being that way.I still do. But in Scientology, I felt like whatever I did was never enough. This got communicated all the time – not in these words exactly, but conceptually: “Well, Ok, thanks, you did something, but its possible if you REALLY WANTED TO you could have done better.” Never, ever enough!
Oh my Aqua, “But in Scientology, I felt like whatever I did was never enough. This got communicated all the time – not in these words exactly, but conceptually: “Well, Ok, thanks, you did something, but its possible if you REALLY WANTED TO you could have done better.” Never, ever enough!” You hit it on the nail.
I feel we are kindred spirits you and I. So many times you make comments that hit home with me. We’ve gone through so many similar experiences that I don’t comment on, no need to cause you say it all and are more eloquent.
Hopefully we will meet up one day at OSD’s beach bash, the celebration of DM’s downfall.
Ms. P, we will definitely meet at OSD’s beach bash! I’m glad we’re tracking, and that sometimes you say what I’m thinking and don’t have to say it, and sometimes its vice versa. I think the most important aspect of this blog is realizing that what we each of us here for years did not share with others, out of guilt, out of fear, were actually very common “witholds”, that others were handling much the same, or precisely the same issues in precisely the same way. So funny that we each thought: “I’m the only one who thinks like this about (whatever)…better just keep it to myself…” and now, on this blog, we find out the truth. Looking forward to meeting you and everyone who can make it. We are going to have one hell of a party!
Ms. P., I don’t remember if the ‘PTS to the middle class’ is an official scientology thing or not. The first time that I heard the phrase was during the Kingsley Wimbush ‘de-dinging’ era in the very early 80s. Ironically, it was during that time period that staff actually started making better money than with ‘standard admin tech’. Everyone at the mission I was at was applying this de-dinging shit and the place was abuzz action. Things were happening. Not necessarily in a good way all the time, but things were definitely happening. It was at this time that I first caught a clue about the financial condition of a typical staff member. I overheard a conversation between the senior c/s and another staffer. The c/s was married to the academy course supervisor, both were very dedicated so I cringed when I heard her casually say to the other staffer that they were finally able to afford to buy a roll of paper towels. Unbeknownst to me at the time, they were both moonlighting to try to make ends meet as well as sharing an apartment with another staff couple in the same situation. These were some of the more highly ‘trained’ staff members so they should have at least been able to make a very modest living wage. They weren’t, they actually fit the definition of working poor. Working their asses off but not making enough to get by. And these were high times for staff members. It only got worse from there. Way worse.
Okay – declassee, French, dey-klah-sey’, 1. reduced to or having low or lower status. 2. reduced or belonging to a lower or low social class, position or rank.
Use it in a sentence – “In my house I’m declassee to our shi tzu.”
(joke – I’m equal status)
Ever hear of a “coffee out”? Eight or ten people would go to a free coffee refill restaurant and shoot the bull. Everyone would drink cup after cup, eventually dropping out one by one until the last man standing (and wide awake) was the winner. I’m not sure if that’s part of my scn experience – unable to date and locate it at this time.
🙂 Richard, that’s a pass. Ready for your Starrate?
Yeah, “declasse” or “declassee” if you’re female…for paying your bills on time. Can’t make it up, Richard – just CAN’T make it up! 🙂
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Good post today!
A true jail house economy that goes very nicely with a barbed-wire fence designed to keep folks sequestered inside, confiscated passports, and all the rest of it
LMAO!!!!
Oh yeah? Well, I’m ROTFLMFAO!
What’s up my friend? Hope I didn’t kick u when I was on the floor!!
Oh, Hell…I’m used to it.
Wheelin’ and dealin’, oh yes…
When on mission staff, we were given weekly quotas to write letters to the public, to get the “Letters Out” stat up. A few of us used to shoot craps to dump our quota onto the others. I quit early as I always seemed to lose at craps, haha!
Geez,I just had a flashback to my pot smoking and LSD trip days when I had conversations like this making deals with friends to get a high or someone’s taco from munchies. Thanks Mike. I feel regraded now. Is that the right lingo?
Thank you RB.
First laugh of the day.
But not the last…
Sad, ironic, tragic.
Sad: That good people are reduced to this degraded level.
Ironic: That with an actual world view barely extending beyond their next meal, cigarette or cup of coffee, these are the people who are “getting Ethics in on the planet”.
Tragic: The wasted talent. That none of this is helping. The utter uselessness of it all.
Nicely put Aqua. Amazing irony
Yes, summed up well Aqua.
The contempt for life exampled by staff members (public too) believing they are on the road to becoming some sort of “God” is hard to think with for any length of time. The longer you think about a solution for it the harder it becomes to reconcile. Yes… The utter uselessness of it all.
Figures! Money is always going to be a “sore spot” with sea orgs…..be sure to bring it up next time you meet one!
Yes, the blind leading the blind.
How does that compute. An HGC team handling the most powerful technology on the planet that is being paid slave labor wages? That seems like an incredible outpoint to me.
Thanks RB you present us with the irony of this incredibly insane cult.
To which HGC team and what technology are you referring?
Yikes, this is a little too close to home for someone stuck at ITO during the OEC/FEBC evolution (revolution?) way back when. All the class V orgs had to send people and very few of us were getting paid. I couldn’t take rice and beans one more meal and had just enough for a drink at the pizza place. So I’m drinking my sugar dinner and staring at the girl from France so hard she got self-conscious and gave me a cigarette.
That wheeling and dealing for micro transactions is all too real.
Don’t worry, though, I blew just before Christmas and when they called to say Davie “commanded” me to be at the new years event I told them I’d be anywhere they wanted if they sent a plane ticket. They sent a freeloader bill instead! Owing tens of thousands to flag bureau was my ticket to freedom. “Sorry, I cant attend your event until I pay this off…” ha ha. “When do you think you’ll have that paid off?” *explosive laughter*
They sent me a bill every week for 10 years. Occasionally someone would put a penny on my account. I assume to get the stats up. Such good times…
Good story, ARNH. Well done on blowing that awful place!
When do you think you’ll have that paid off?
When LRH returns. Keep me posted.
I know that feeling. My first week on the Apollo.. I had zero $ – someone on board had stolen my only good sweater, and I desperately wanted a smoke. I would have done anything! Guess things haven’t changed much..
Ummmmm…anything, Madge?
You know the Apollo got sunk by a train don’t you? That’s a change.
Whoa! Sunk by a train, eh. You don’t see that much of trains sinking boats around these here parts.
It did! A train for loading freight at the dock the Apollo was moored to, ran into it. Sank it at the dock. Apparently it damaged too much of the ship’s infrastructure and down she went. I posted the details last year when I stumbled across it. The interesting thing was the owners could not be contacted/found, as they were part of some sort of secret organisation put together for the ownership. From memory I think it’s in Texas or one of the gulf states. A fitting “Venus” type incident to end the once infamous Flagship of Scientology.
I’ll try to find the original image of the report, I’ve changed computers since.
I learned something new today!
Sounds almost like the “awareness gainedd” from OT VIII! Nicely done, RB!
RB using hidden cameras again to come up with material.