I have never been in Scientology I am a proud atheist. I generally hate people in general. But I don’t understand Scientology or any cults that hurt people so much . Separating families just for profit !?miss cabbage is a evil person and I don’t believe in evil…. but I believe that he has little man syndrome and him and Kim Jung un and Donald Trump putin also should all go golfing together. And then a Russian satellite should promptly fall upon their heads. That is how you clear the planet ?
Firstly, Hubbard tapped into, but deceived and conned us, on a subject and matter we all wanted.
We wanted to learn to truths of our true existence and spiritual nature and powers. He falsely promised that was what he’d deliver . . . but instead he delivered deceitful and false “research” and ABUSE.
However, honest research in the endeavor continued and wonderful gains have been achieved.
I did a presentation at the 2009 FZ Convention in Pasadena addressing the advances Alan Walter and I had made.
In PT, I run a forum with a couple of hundred members being coached on applying Alan’s technical breakthroughs along with the materials I discovered and added to his published work. Here: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org
Has anyone else had the thought that the remaining still-ins are a pretty mean-spirited bunch?
At the top is the petty tyrant, and assisting him are the likes of Jenny (what’s-your-last-name-this-week) DeVocht, plus those hovering around her skirts. Recent reports list this Fast Eddy character, Grant Cardone, and others. There is also, sad to say, Mike’s ex-wife and daughter.
None of those people have done anything to make me believe there is the smallest chink in their armor.
The ones to be pitied are those that OSA forces to speak lies about Aftermath guests. Every word out of their mouth is another nail in their coffin, so to speak. They must think “How can I ever hope to succeed in leaving Scientology? I just burned the remaining bridges between myself and the very people most likely to offer me safe haven. Damn. Traps within traps.”
Tick. Tock.
The Tiny Tyrant ran up the Clock.
The Clock struck One,
and the rest Scattered,
Blown to the Four Winds,
Trying to get out of Danger.
Again… and Again.
“Has anyone else had the thought that the remaining still-ins are a pretty mean-spirited bunch?”
Funny you should mention that…yes, I have thought about this. At this point, the cult is operating a fear-based organization directed by Mr. Paranoia. The threats of action made against members in the past were never subtle, according to many here who have shared, but I imagine this has heightened as the numbers dwindle. Anger is a secondary emotion to fear. Besides, isn’t anger a goal to reach on tone scale or whatever it’s called? This is what has been so confusing to me in attempting to understand how this cult can call itself a religion.
I’ve mentioned this before in past posts but the most abhorrent behavior I ever witnessed (via film footage) by a member since following this subject is the video of Rinder’s ex-wife in the parking lot. Every time I see that footage, I’m sickened….and saddened….and repulsed….
Regarding who is left in Scientology:
The last time I was getting services at Flag in 2005 I learned that not only could staff not socialize with public, they couldn’t socialize with other staff in other departments. In other words, the “rumor lines” were cut by isolating staff from each other. Like building a ship with many water tight compartments so that when a torpedo strikes the ship, it only destroys some compartments, but does not sink the whole ship.
Communication to all staff is reserved for top down communication. Miscavige communication lines are then kept clean of rumors and he can give them the mushroom treatment: keep them in the dark and feed ’em bullshit.
That is why they still have staff. The public is a different matter. The Cadones’ etc… are total assholes who know what is going on and make money from the suffering of others.
Robert Amblad, I can confirm what you say. At one point the auditors at Flag were told not to talk to and schmooze their pcs while waiting in line for the examiner. It made for some awkwardness if the line was long. And the SO members could only have libs with their fellow workers in their section. It was divided into something like starboard and port side, for a ship. So on your libs you could only go with starboard staff if you were starboard etc. So you weren’t allowed to fraternize on your days off with the port side if you were starboard. These ship terms were used at Flag decades after the ships on the sea thing ended. Can you imagine working with the same yelling people 24/7 and then to be told those are the only ones you can fraternize with on your day off? Yikes!
Wow! I did not know the scene had become so evil and insane . . . I ended up out in 1985. It was insane enough then, and evil . . . but the rules you cite above are beyond imagining in a sensible world.
“Why did I think that?
It’s going to come out in my next Sec Check.”
“It always does”
When I started to hear the little voices in my head, I wondered about Hubbard’s real understanding of the human mind. This was my good old conscience that they told me so much about in Catholic school. But Hubbard seemed to be starting to control it himself. Was I in too deep? After thirty years I feel nothing but joy. Miscavige looks like an old phony trying to smile. There is no joy. The real joy hits the Scientologists and stops them in their tracks. I have not heard Foolproof’s nonsense in a long time. His logical irrationalism is no match for the joy of thirty years out. Hubbard was an out of control average man. He had no truth to reveal. We could get it out of comic books. But even if his comic books tales were some type of truth, they go in circles and thus are not truth.
Jesuit George should heed the words of the Lord: “Do not take the name of thy Lord Foolproof in vain!” Or produce silly little 10 dollar comic books stating that one will spontaneously combust and that Hubbard was Lucifer. Nor believe silly April Fool’s versions of “New OTVIII”. The Lord also stateth “George, thou should have spent longer time on Solo NOTs than a few months and not squirreled it then thou would not natter so much now!” The Lord also stateth: “Heed the words of the Standard Tech Saviour for the words are your only salvation (after long duration sec checking anyway). Thou art consigned to the pits of hell and the pain of the Inquisitor’s rack for thy sins! And wear a hair shirt for the next 20 years as well! Thou dost deserve it!”
As for “being out”, I’ve been out longer than you. And Amen to all that!
Such joy in reading your comment!. If Hubbard had read Milton’s “Paradise Lost” he would have known that God sent a powerful Seraphim or an “OT” to deliver a massive blow to the side of Lucifer’s head [Hubbard’s head]. Time on OTVII or OT VIII or any OT level is of no consequence. Time is an illusion, as you know. If the fundamental assumptions are wrong, the result is wrong. Check your science. There is no way that Hubbard’s childish neo-platonic Gnosticism transformed into his “BT’s” could produce anything valid. Look at pictures of Hubbard. Does he manifest any joy? All you ever see is a forlorn, wondering human. Blavatsky came closer to a definition of an OT than Hubbard. Foolproof, all of you old OT VII’s are the same. You did the bottle drill and think you are superior to all Scientologists. Maybe you are but that does not make you OT. By the way, I spent a lot longer than a few months on OT VII. It was before Miscavige and in those days 8 months was a lot. Besides I spent a lot of time with declared Kathy Roberts as a volunteer. Most audited less than an hour a day. I was in the 12 hours plus category every day. Check the records. If you look at my stats, I did in 8 months what people did in 10 years.
It does not matter how long I was on OT VII. Hubbard had reversed the entire definition of spirits into falsehoods. Check your history. Hubbard’s definitions of thetans and spirits are theoretically impossible. Hubbard used mis-translations from Hindu and Pali scriptures to define his “spirits”. Very Western, you know.
Who is Kathy Roberts and what do you mean that you spent a lot of time with her? Was she auditing you and what does she, whoever she is, have to do with anything?
So as to your NOTs, this is getting curiouser and curiouser! 12 hours a day eh? First I have ever heard of someone totting up that enormous amount per day so it seems that either your Sandcastle C/S needs shooting or you were running – what? As to your 8 months on the level it seems that the list of completions from Source Magazine has it down as 6 months minus the usual toing and froing between levels. This will explain all for you George so you’d better get inventive and mock up some more bogus stuff. Get clever now or you might just spontaneously combust!
Now it seems we are getting closer to the truth of the matter here George – 12 hours a day indeed! Or have you been watching the Exorcist too much?
Foolproof – You mention “. . . the list of completions from Source Magazine has it down as 6 months . . .” . That sounds like a reference to a 30 year old magazine. You must have quite a collection of Scn literature or maybe you have ready access to such. Interesting.
Well Richard, sorry to spoil your little detective ploy but no I am not sitting in a Qual library or an Org somewhere. The list is obtained by simply googling “Scientology Completions” or something similar and a site comes up which contains all of the completions listed in Source and other magazines. I never kept my Source mags, I did collect Advance mags from years ago but they have disappeared somewhere or I gave them away.
As it seems that George has headed for the hills and now hopes that this story will be quietly forgotten – after dropping too much false information on “his” Solo NOTs, I thought I would fill in the vacuum here with possible scenarios, which despite being somewhat outlandish, are nevertheless probably nearer to the truth than George’s little comic book about the April Fool’s version of “New OTVIII”, or now it seems “his” Solo NOTs:
Scenario1: Supercargo or Tech Sec Sandcastle to Kathy Roberts Solo NOTs DofP (thanks again Cindy) – “get your stats up Kathy or it’s the decks for you!” Kathy replies: “There’s no problem sir – I always have George to fall back on with his daily hours – last week it was 10 hours a day so we can just ask him to report 12 hours a day this week! We don’t know WTF he is doing in session, in fact he has the TV on in his auditing room, but…”
Scenario 2: Da Vinci Code type Jesuits in a meeting in the catacombs of Rome, or Boston for that matter: “We need to send an agent like that blond guy who self-flagellates in the film to pretend he is one of those devils and then he can write a silly book based on that malicious nonsense about Hubbard. Who have we got for that role? And make sure he gets clued in as to what these infidels really do in their sessions! We don’t want any slip-ups!”
Scenario 3: Midnight before April Fool’s Day 1988 – a little envelope is slipped under “George’s” cabin door on the Freewinds (this really happened he says, er…). It contains the most confidential data in Scientology (if true of course). George thinks “this cannot be true – surely not?” George appears next day to collect his folder. He does not notice all the Tech staff struggling to contain smirks and laughter. And this carries on day after day but as it is so funny, the Tech staff cannot relinquish their daily fun.
I realize this little story of yours is hypothetical but let’s get back to reality, shall we?
Staff is certainly not laughing. They work for pennies. They work absurd amounts of hours. They are verbally abused. Almost no one is on course. Their orgs are empty.
Your theme here is somewhat non-sequitur to the theme above here but this is quite usual for comment threads here – it’s a silly childish effort to deflect from the theme above.
Suddenly you are concerned over staff yet spend much of your free time abusing them! The abuse they receive is mostly from people like you. I was one of them for many years and the course rooms were full and the Orgs certainly weren’t empty. The hours were indeed long and the pay non-existent and I wasn’t verbally abused (well, some tried now and then). Yet these staff are still doing something worthwhile. You?
KatherineINCalisays
(Don’t know what the hell is up with no reply button on your last post to me, so I’m replying here.)
Are you for real?
Please explain how I could have abused the staff when I was lucky enough to never be in $cientology? Riddle me that.
The staff do things worthwhile?! Oh, dear. You’re delusional. All they do is sit around waiting for people to come in …but no one does. Ok, maybe one person comes in…lol. They do useless busy work so as not to notice that the org is empty and that they’re miserable.
What do I do worthwhile? I take excellent care of my husband and son. I give to legitimate charities. I fight against the vile abuses of Hubbard and DM. I spend quality time with friends and family. I always try to be the best person I can be. I show love to those who mean the world to me.
Thanks for asking. Hope that clears it up.
Cindysays
George, What can you tell me about Kathy Roberts’ declare? What year was it issued? Did she ever do A to E to get back in? WHY was she declared?
I ask because she is a friend and when I last saw her in around 2011, she was staunch, holier than thou top KA drinking sheeple. That’s why it surprised me she was declared. Do you know what she did to get declared?
Cindy – I would be surprised if you get any more “facts” now about your friend from George. As I say I cannot fathom what she has to do with his “OTVII” and probably neither can he – now! But good luck with your quest – really.
Foolproof, what Kathy Roberts has to do with George’s Bridge was at one time she was the Solo Nots D of P and was probably his D of P. She also worked in Qual for a time, so she could have done some Qual cycles on him as a solo nots auditor. So can anyone give me PT data on Kathy Roberts?
Your body may have left (if that is true) but your mind and soul are still torturously enslaved by wrong knowledg – delusion..
If you have been out for a long time, and you still are attacking critics with hostile language then you may be insane.
You sometimes sound like Elizabeth Hamre. She’s been out for a while and audits everyday. Her mind ended up like yours: hostile to critics of Hubbard and his fantasies.
Hubbard became suicidal by auditing BTs. Your mind is in a mess Foolproof.
You have attained the OT state of hate Foolproof. Your comments remind me more of Gallum than a normal human.
I doubt you are married or in a relationship. Scientology has messed you up big time.
We truly feel sorry for you. I hope one day you can rise above the need to attack people. That need to attack is the ghost of LRH bouncing around in your head like a pin ball machine.
This is your mind in Scientology.
Run like hell all ye lurkers and fence sitters! Save yourself!
Poor old Brain feels always compelled to write his drivel in response to my comments and as to attacking “people” this coming from someone who spends all of his time on here doing just that – well, you know what “they” say eh? The overt doth speak loudeth in accusation! And always worried about the lurkers as well – so it seems your “mission” here is to try and convince said lurkers not to lurk! Yes, we don’t want any lurkers – they might run OTIII without a meter like you or spontaneously combust like George above. And your “need to attack” is what then Brain? You were obviously given the bum’s rush from the Orgs and if you turn up at any more Indie meetings in the hope of convincing them to cease and desist with auditing then my advice to them is to give you the bum’s rush from there as well! Or what were you doing at the last Indie meeting you attended? Swapping wins? Ha!
And I notice the old “you can’t get a girlfriend” platitude creeps in in the vain and daft hope of casting aspersions but as always, one wonders whether the shoe is on the other foot. After all, who could stomach someone so bitter and ranting as you in a relationship?
Lurkers, Foolproof is a living example of someone becoming a sociopath through Hubbard’s words.
His nastiness, defection and blame can come from agreeing that sympathy is low toned and hate and hostility is high.
His assuming a name, not his own, is proof that his savior – LRH, created in him a fear of writing his real name. Foolproof’s hiding behind a false name is evidence of fear. A fear created by the doctrines of the man he worships.
It’s the karmic boomerang effect. Hubbard sought violent destruction of critics making critics hide from the beast. But now even people who support Hubbard are in fear of writing their real names. The doctrines of Scientology create sociopaths when Hubbard is taken literally. And being literal is demanded by Bubble Bots.
Foolproof is demonstrating for us a few Scientology brainwashings:
1- never discuss with critics, find their crimes
2- hate over sympathy
3- nastiness over kindness
4- unparalleled arrogance
5- Scientology is the only way and all other ways are inferior
6- Ron, the Malignant Narcissist Sociopth is mankind’s best friend
7- ALL CRITICS ARE CRIMINALS BECAUSE:
RON THE ENGINEER, NUCLEAR PHYSICIST, BUDDHA INCARNATE, DOCTOR, INCARNATION OF CECIL RHODES, LOVER OF VESTIL VIRGINS, PRINCE OF DARKNESS, LUCIFER, ANTI CHRIST, LOYAL OFFICER, FARSEC FIGHTING SPACE WARRIOR, PLANET SAVER AND ALL AROUND MENTALLY DISTURBED SPACE JOCKEY………….
RESEARCHED IT.
May you be filled with love and joy FP. May the light within you – the soul, break through the darkness of wrong knowledge and rest your mind in vast unending, unerring wisdom.
Surviving as and for the 8th Dynamic. May these traits be yours evermore.
“May you be filled with love and joy FP. May the light within you – the soul, break through the darkness of wrong knowledge and rest your mind in vast unending, unerring wisdom.”
I, a never-in, can see it. Others, former Scientologists, can see it. I wonder why you cannot, Foolproof, and I feel pity for you.
Foolproofsays
RiverCS – well I don’t know what comments you are reading but obviously not the same comments as I am, which ironically are full of one of those points in another article about sociopaths – “insults, deprecation, negative statements, public or private humiliation” all directed at Scientology and Scientologists . As to your statement that my knowledge is “wrong”, as you have never studied Scientology or experienced it, or had any auditing or training, this is rather a bold statement of yours based on – what? The “insulting, deprecating” comments you read here?
Essentially River, and you may or may not understand this, I have had marvelous case gain from Scientology and appreciate this, whereas most commenters on here haven’t and which actually is fundamentally their main beef.
Mike Rindersays
Your last para is one of the most accurate things you have ever said here. Though your perspective on this truth is obviously different than others,
I doubt there are many who would aspire to having the gains you have had as you routinely demonstrate some of the most unpleasant characteristics of a fundamentalist. Your assertive certainty of your superiority is unappealing in the extreme.
But those who have not achieved gains, after being promised they would because the tech works 100% of the time — and paid dearly for that promise only to have it broken, they are understandably upset.
But what you can’t ever seem to come to grips with is that there are a LOT more people in the latter category than the former. It doesn’t compute to you as Hubbard says this is not possible because the tech always works and is self-correcting even when dealing with the 2 1/2% — which should be the rate of failure of scientology to produce guaranteed results.
Scientology produces sociopaths by way of being educated to Hubbard’s malignancy through his words. If there are any new comers to Mike’s blog, the link below that Mike put together guides us through the exact reasons that Scientology produces nasty people like Foolproof, who actually think they are doing good!
This below link will answer all of your questions as to how and why Scientologists can behave like sociopaths.
Scientology is an applied philosophy. Foolproof is predictable. He or she is the product of the words written below. There is no mystery. His or her behavior is all in writing.
After pouring forth bile and vitriol on a more or less constant stream and then making out he is really a decent chap and all that, Brian then accuses me of doing so! Not that I am interested in influencing “lurkers” as Brian admits, but anyone with any intelligence will realize who the sociopath is here, won’t they Brian?
Katherine – you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.
KatherineINCalisays
There’s no reply button on your last post to me so I’m replying here.
You say I have no clue what I’m talking about after I said Hubbard was a sociopath.
Not surprised you don’t think anything bad about that crazy piece of shit.
He indeed was a sociopath and narcissistic, not to mention an abusive bastard, a criminal, a pathological liar, and a total son of a bitch who liked to destroy families. I won’t even get into his vile and cruel policies.
KatherineINCalisays
For the love of Xenu — you’re a piece of work.
Speaking of Xenu, do you really believe all that mess?
Of course Katherine Invalidate must chip in with her 2 cents worth: your comment is directed at Brian but I assume it is really meant for me – well, you can ask Brian – he ran OTIII for 3 weeks on his back porch without a meter. As for you, what’s your beef with Scientology, or are you just here for the invalidation?
What’s my beef with $cientology?? You can’t possibly be serious.
How about the endless amounts of lives and families destroyed via disconnection? How about the countless people stalked, harassed, and tormented by $cientology-hired PI’s? How about Fair Game? How about the mind control? How about the fact that it’s supposed to be a “church”, yet no one can leave without $cientology accusing them of non-existent “crimes”? How about Lisa McPherson? How about The Hole and holding people against their will? How about people going bankrupt because of endless fundraising? I could go on and on.
I don’t give a shit about their beliefs, despite how utterly crazy they are. And I sure as shit don’t give a damn what anyone did with or without an e-meter.
Yes, ok, we know all that, but why then don’t you attack JWs, or Israelis for what is occurring in Palestine, or North Korea, or drug dealers etc. etc. Why specifically Scientology then? One of your locale’s drug dealers and the resultant criminality, shootings and murders does more harm in a day than Scientology (or rather some Scientologists) has done in 50 years!
Whataboutism is such a weak method of argument. It’s only slightly above ad hominem.
Hey, I raped someone, but there are a thousand murders that occurred last week, why aren’t you doing something about them instead of focusing on one little rape?
KatherineINCalisays
FP —
How could you possibly know if I don’t have major issues with other so-called religions?
The fact of the matter is, I have major issues with JW’s, FLDS, Christianity, etc. I post on other blogs about the abuses within those “religions”.
KatherineINCalisays
And I also am disgusted with the Catholic Church for all the cover ups of raping boys. If there is a Hell, they’ll be there.
Foolproofsays
And I could just as easily respond that your comment is “WhatAbout-WhatAboutIsm” if you follow the illogic. I knew that you would chip in here as my comment, regardless of how you dress it up, puts things into perspective, or, succinctly, makes a molehill out of the mountain that you make. The molehill is still a molehill but it’s not a mountain. But I was actually trying to gauge what exactly was/is Katherine’s beef with Scientology.
Nancysays
Oh yeah, and with all of the “entheta” 🙂 out there at the moment, the still-ins are surely getting pounded on even harder to donate as it is theta to do so to turn the tides. Barf…..
Nancy said: “Oh yeah, and with all of the “entheta” out there at the moment, the still-ins are surely getting pounded on even harder to donate as it is theta to do so to turn the tides. ”
AND that “theta” is so-easily proved to be lies that have stopped making them feel good by now. The purported expansion can be seen locally as contraction towards a pinpoint, the only thing expanding is the
volume of bad news and numbers of past member, often respected OLs (Opinion Leaders) detailing the organizations’ crimes and abuses. And the abuses are obvious to be seen/experienced at their local level, along with the evidence of implosion and worsening non-viability slapping them forcefully about their head and shoulders, along with the lightness of their wallets AND the insurmountable sizes of their debts.
The bridge to total freedom becomes the tomb of financial ruin. Welcome to the golden age of debt. I’d like to thank COB for making this all possible. You rot sir!
Do you think that David Miscavige watches every episode of Aftermath? It must absolutely enrage him. What about Eddie Parkin (would he be allowed to, or would he be simply briefed on episode contents)?
IF the demented midcreant watches, it’s not while he’s sober, and I expect he trashes multiple viewing screens per episode. Hey, a psychopath’s got to stike out against SOMEthing, doesn’t he?
Your turn of phrase has also provided me now with a laugh! In fact I am still laughing a minute later! Takes me back to the good old irreverent days of HCOs and Quals in the 70s!
Nice representation of the trap RB! The status is created so that if you donate a bit towards it, you now have an incomplete cycle on the status (and it is sooo bad to have incomplete cycles). And then the guy asking for the donations has no money himself and has given up his WHOLE LIFE for this gig – so its really hard to argue with him about what sacrifices have been made to make donations. And all he sees is how much freedom and money you have (relative to him) – so he does not hold back on that emotive, guilt-tripping, glib “planetary salvation” line. (Glib because buildings and polished chandeliers do not equal salvation). And the one who started all this sits in the background watching the push escalate. Its ok, though – whatever it takes to get a stat. That’s what is important. The stat. The money. The appearance of success. The stat that justifies the position of power. It’s bullying with a “justification”.
The final lines of the novel (as well as the film) ‘On The Beach’ are: ‘This is the way the world ends, not with bang, but a whimper’. I daresay, this is the fate of Ron’s World . . . . tic, toc . . .
That’s a famous line from a famous poem by T.S. Eliot called “The Hollow Men.” (1925) It’s worth a read. Former Scios will find it an appropriate epitaph for the COS. https://www.shmoop.com/hollow-men/poem-text.html
What with all the Capitalisations of the Scientology-Speak Terms in Regraded Being’s Speech-Bubbles these Days, the Comic Strip is starting to look positively Germanic. I only hope this is a Sign that the Cult will soon be meeting its Götterdämmerung! 😉
I just read on the Underground Bunker the threat letter from Masterson’s lawyer. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed about legal matters, but if Masterson sues A&E and everyone involved in the upcoming episode, wouldn’t that just force the matter to a trial, when that is exactly what Masterson is trying to prevent? If so, I say, Bring It On!!!
I was thinking the same thing last night. Truth is an absolute defense to slander or libel actions. So any trial would focus on whether the allegations are true. I can’t imagine that going well for Masterson.
These days instead of spending money on scientology, I go on vacations to Italy and Canada and Sedona, AZ and Vegas… so many better experiences come from that.
My Life Repair did nothing for me, seeing the statue of David and the Sistine Chapel was a FAR better use of my money. And left much happier memories.
Get out and go see the world.
Badafuco that makes my day! Yes! Leave that scientology crap behind people. See the world and live your life. Enjoy your family. Spend your money on that. It will go further and you’ll actually BE happy. ☺
Hi mike and happy new year to you and your family. I am not sure if you can feel it or not but the momentum is really starting to swing in your favour. This battle with COS is like a heavyweight prize fight. We are in the sixth round and you are landing body blows left right and center. Jab and another jab, Scientology is bleeding and they can’t stop it. Their eyes are swelling shut and they can’t see that the knockout punch is coming. The body blows keep coming from you and after every flurry of body shots Scientology makes a desperate wild swing hoping they can end the fight cuz they are tiring.
You have them on the ropes and the crowd is cheering “Rinder, Rinder” just like a scene from the Rocky movies.
Keep jabbing and landing those body blows.
Scientology can’t even defend themselves any more, and set them up for the knockout punch.
I don’t think this fight will go past the 8th round. The championship belt is yours and the COS knows it. Monique Yingling will not throw in the towel though. You will have to deliver the knockout punch to mini-miscaviage yourself.
You are a true champ Mike and there are many thousands of us in your corner.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. A ridiculous scenario, yes, but as it was explained in that South Park episode, “This is what Scientologists actually believe.” The IAS was the last straw for me. I strongly suspect that the endless demand for donations is the leading cause of the COS’ dwindling membership. And they’ll never have a chance to recover from their downward spiral if they continue turning their flock into bloodless turnips.
Wow. This one is very representative of the pressure and the “think” that goes on inside the bubble. We even did that in the 70’s. Always asking for money, but couch it in words like, pivotal moment in history, reverse the dwindling spiral, saving mankind, clearing the planet, we’re the ONLY chance for mankind etc. But all that verbiage has gotten old now. Who can afford that constant drain of resources no matter what the reason? Spot on RB. 🙂
From the cartoon, “. . . until we replenish the War Chest.” In the late 1970’s Elron instituted a 5% monthly price increase on all training and auditing which was blamed on keeping up with inflation. Inflation was high at that time so I went along with it and eventually the prices levelled off. In the early 1980’s the monthly price increases resumed and I think it was blamed on needing to create a defense fund or War Chest since the IRS was after scientology for back taxes. I wasn’t willing to pay the price and split.
That second round price increases caused what some people call the Grand Exodus of scientologists in Los Angeles. Several ex scientologist support groups sprang up and I joined one. We discussed other practices and listened to several channeling tapes which fit the mystical notions most of us had. On one of the tapes a group of blown OTs had recruited a channeller and was grilling the entity about whether OTIII was real or not. He hedged and replied, “Well, that is one of several possibilities . . .” and went on to expound about other opportunities in the Theta Universe. As I recall they were rather irritated that they couldn’t pin him down but I guess he was just trying to calm things down.
Monthly price increases on the already astronomical prices today wouldn’t work so it’s best to seek donations for good works and cathedrals.
Wynski – It was a general comment and I guess I accidentally hit the reply button to you. Anyhow I think you’re right about the 5,000 number, probably composed of wealthy country club type people, those with a remaining net worth gradually being being fleeced and old timers continuing to hang around.
The monthly price increases were at a time when inflation was about 1% a month, bad but not nearly enough to actually justify Scientology’s rate of hikes. Previously, in the 1960s inflation had been about 3% per year, so it would have taken less than a year to catch up if prices actually hadn’t been adjusted in a while.
While, typically, it was spun in a way that people bought in to, it was actually manipulative and exploitative. I’d guess that it was caused by a mix of Hubbard’s increasing greed, and attempts to keep income up as the flood of young baby boomers turned into what at the time was called the “baby bust,” which would have initially hit the hidebound local orgs – and Hubbard’s direct income stream – harder than missions.
Your account of the “Grand Exodus” is an interesting reminder that Scientology had problems other than just the crackdown on the relatively popular missions. What other things also contributed to peoples’ disaffection – was there, for instance, growing realization that Scientology was producing feel-good moments but not life-changing results?
Also, “channeling,” while a complex phenomenon that can involve interesting (though not para-normal) abilities of the subsconscious when it’s not just self-delusion or fakery, has a good bit in common with the so-called cold reading techniques of mediums and other charlatans – it “works” based on saying things so general that they sound, or can be interpreted as, true, so it’s not surprising that the channeler couldn’t be pinned down on a specific answer:
From a scientific realism point of view, my guess is that while in a trance state the channeller accesses some creative stream of consciousness part of the mind. That would give the appearance that the “entity” is more knowing, perceptive and so on than the channeller is in his or her normal state. That said, innumerable people believe in angels, ghosts, spirit guides, ascended masters, gods, goddesses and the list goes on. It’s a BIG universe, 170 billion observable galaxies at last count and the possibility of incorporeal conscious life remains open to discussion.
The group I joined had about fifteen people and we met weekly at someones house. Nobody was much over forty years old so we were mostly baby boomers and at that age nobody was too worried about “losing their eternity” by splitting scientology. I suppose most of us had some hope of developing some paranormal abilities but the main focus was on increasing abilities to attain greater success in life, particularly financial. That wasn’t going to happen with Hubbard and the CoS digging ever deeper into our wallets or purses. We had about eight or ten meetings, had some fun and shared some experiences, and then the group disbanded.
I’m not sure how the tax laws work. If a millionaire spent a half million dollars on Scn over a few years how much of that would be financed by the government?
RICHARD said:
“I’m not sure how the tax laws work. If a millionaire spent a half million dollars on Scn over a few years how much of that would be financed by the government?”
While JOHN P can answer more definitively, my quick answer is “It depends.” If the guy isn’t very savvy(He IS still a scientologist, you see.), it could be a 50% support by the government, depending on the country. For some guys, it’d be as low as about 10% or less. a”w.i.s.e” -registered guy (UNwise) might be able to charge the whole amount to ‘operating expenses’, thus 0 financed by the government. IMO, so-called “W.I.S.E” is about the worst rip-off the cult has perpetrated with its slaves’ acquiescence. The front-group contributes nothing to the company but recommending policies which produce bloat and inefficiency, while demanding a tithe right off of the top, no matter what the operating expenses are.
The price rises were’t the main reason for the Exodus – the main reason in my observed at the time opinion was the unnecessary harsh stance and injustice coming down the lines. The prices (in the 70s) before the price rises were actually very very low so a slight increase in prices was actually justifiable but then it did carry on too long. DGF WW (Herbie) was against the (constant) price rises and got hammered because of it. So it was maybe a combination of the price rises occurring at the same time as the ridiculous heavy hussar handling coming down the lines, but it was the latter IMO that was the heavy weight that broke the camel’s back, the straw was the concomitant price rises.
As for those dudes you got mixed up with – well, there you go – and went!
The crash in new people into scientology (the % of new people leaving was always sky high) happened around ’76-’77 when the Boomers had to grow up. With that came a crash of active members that continues to this day.
Hubbard and Scientology were never much for acknowledging the reality of the world around them. That period was when the baby boom turned into what was then known as the baby bust, as the flood of youth dried up – Scientology would have suddenly been starved for the flow of “raw meat” they depended on due to the high turnover you cite. Scientology and its members were wrapped up in internal struggles that were part of the picture, but they were also facing an insurmountable but unacknowledged demographic challenge and generational shift.
1976-7 would have been when the last of the baby boomers were starting to hit their late 20s. In 1980 the Preppie Handbook was published, reflecting how the early Gen Xers were very different, and just after that the term “yuppie” was coined, intended to reflect how the hippie generation was turning to establishing careers and settling down.
There were 2 main reasons in the many people I knew:
It first started out with trying to salvage the church from the unknown thugs taking over.
Then there were wave after wave of people coming to their senses and realizing Hubbard was a well marketed – hypno – shame.
It was only after being out of the bubble of enslaved delusional thinking that we started coming to our senses.
Not sure what happened to you.
Are you a shut in Foolproof? Are you ok? Do you need help?
If you have been out this long and still feel the need to attack critics and protect “mankind’s only hope”, maybe you need to ask for professional help.
Maybe you need help Foolproof. I hope you can get the help you need.
Is this you now being all kind and benevolent and concerned for my welfare? This is indeed a new face you are presenting (for the consumption of some fools on here). One of compassion, feeling, sympathy, decency and many other similar things. I am glad you can take the time off from your usual invective and bile to portray yourself as a thoroughly decent chap. I think I prefer responding to Katherine Invalidate’s comments – at least one knows where one stands with her without all the camouflaged and attempted subtlety.
Foolproof – Your comment above suggesting that the price increases were not the primary reason for the Exodus might be the opinion of a present time (current era) Indie or Freezoner. In other words that if the prices were reasonable and without suppression “pure Hubbard/Scientology” can be delivered. Years ago Indies would occasionally show up on blogs and say they were having fun with Scn but they don’t bother anymore. I guess they switched over to other social media.
I am a current Indie and I was also staff and then an Indie when the price rises occurred, so what’s your point? Is this some sort of special insight that you think I don’t possess?
I and Marildi and one or two others are probably the only Indies posting on this site – most other Indies can’t be bothered and I somewhat understand them. So it depends what blogs you are talking about as well. I am sure many Indies posted here over the years but eventually gave up with jousting with loonies and people who just wanted to destroy the subject. And perhaps these Indies you are talking about have indeed switched over to other social media. So, as I say, what is your point?
FP – The reason for my comment to you here and above is that I couldn’t decide if you were an Indie or a CoS operative sent to disrupt an anti Scientology blog. You might have mentioned it before and I missed it but thanks for the clarification.
It’s possible that many people who want to see the current cherch destroyed or eradicated are neutral about Indies pursuing their version of the subject.
Scn in the 1970’s up to and including the Exodus was an interesting and worthwhile life experience for me. I was totally unaware of the “dark side” of the organization and subject and left because of the price increases.
There are those who wish to see the current Church reformed and those who want to destroy the subject totally, including destroying the Indies. As such I am compiling a list of such gentle folk for and for when the GO forms up again under a reincarnated Mike’s tutelage (he will be on the opposite side of his GPM then), and will pass it on to them from a time capsule buried at Trementina Base in future lives for them to be dealt with! (Maniacal laughter heard in background.) (This statement or rather its replies are designed to lure some more names on to the list!)
georgemwhitesays
Cindy,
As I recall, there was a big round of declares when OT VII crashed after OT VIII was retracted. That would have been around 1989. Kathy was a very good D of P. I would not be surprised if she did A-E.
George M. White
PeaceMakersays
Richard, I don’t think there are many indies left. IVY magazine stopped publishing in 2010, and it appears that the Freezone Convention failed to happen last year. The umbrella organizations, websites and online forums that indies and freezoners attempted to set up are either withering or defunct. The signs are, that they’re a vanishing breed, with the passage of time and advancing age whittling down their numbers.
I think that a lot of old-timers left the CofS with the hope that something could be made of the subject. But no one anywhere has ever really succeeded at that, though a few obviously still hold on to the dream, and to nostalgic notions of supposed good old days. People who come out of the CofS now seem to be completely burned out and ready to given up on the subject – and there’s certainly no successful independent movement for them to turn to.
Yes PeaceMaker. I have monitored the Indie on line “scene” since ~2005. It has shrunk to about 5% of what it was at its height about a decade ago. It basically no longer exists in the English speaking countries.
Winski, thanks for that observation. What do you think has happened to the indies? Are they getting too old and finally passing on, are a lot of them just finally running out of interest in the subject, or what?
I think part of it is that in the long run, Dianetics’ and Scientology’s lack of results undercuts its validity and viability, even though there are individuals to be found who still believe. In the 60s and 70s, it was possible to imagine that the CofS might get it right and finally deliver on promises from improved eyesight to real OT powers; in the 80s and 90s, people could think that the independent movement might fulfill the dream. Very specific results and abilities have been held out, and at some point long-term failure to deliver those, or the real-world proof of scientologists obviously outperforming “wogs” (a few hucksters and actors don’t count – and none of them are on the Fortune 500, or winning Oscars), undermines Scientology’s credibility.
Our exchange has been posted over at ESMB (thanks, TrevAnon), so hopefully we’ll get additional insight from people with their finger on the pulse of the scene:
Winsky, How did you come to the conclusion that the Indie world has shrunk to 5% of former heyday? What do you base this on? I’m not challenging you but just want to know what things you observed to come up with that figure. I’m not defending or attacking Indies, and wish people on both sides of the coin good health and good luck. But my observation is that the same people I knew were auditing are still auditing and CSing, namely:
Trey Lotz, Randy Smith, Ingrid Smith, Karen de la Carrier (I heard she doesn’t take too many auditing cycles on now, but does every once in a while), and a guy in Switzerland or Sweeden, the Dror Center in Israel, Anita Warren and her hubbie in WA, and Pat Krenick and the supposedly new LRH returned guy in WA. I’m sure there are more auditors and CSes in the Indie world than just this. But these are a few names off the top of my head.
Wynskisays
PeaceMaker, I’m not completely sure but I believe most, after an amount of time in the real world realize that they were conned. And that scamology is just that, a scam.
Cindy, long term communications analysis and real world non-existence of Indie groups.
PeaceMakersays
The sad thing, though, is that they’re relying on bleeding more and more out of the few who are left – doing even worse damage to those people. Just look at all the accounts about the St. Louis org a while back, where many people went bankrupt and even lost their homes.
I have never been in Scientology I am a proud atheist. I generally hate people in general. But I don’t understand Scientology or any cults that hurt people so much . Separating families just for profit !?miss cabbage is a evil person and I don’t believe in evil…. but I believe that he has little man syndrome and him and Kim Jung un and Donald Trump putin also should all go golfing together. And then a Russian satellite should promptly fall upon their heads. That is how you clear the planet ?
Well, there are a number of answers here.
Firstly, Hubbard tapped into, but deceived and conned us, on a subject and matter we all wanted.
We wanted to learn to truths of our true existence and spiritual nature and powers. He falsely promised that was what he’d deliver . . . but instead he delivered deceitful and false “research” and ABUSE.
However, honest research in the endeavor continued and wonderful gains have been achieved.
I did a presentation at the 2009 FZ Convention in Pasadena addressing the advances Alan Walter and I had made.
This is the tech write up concerning our Pasadena presentation link on ESMB.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?14524-The-Tech-Error-of-%9262-%9263%97How-it-Went-Negative-RogerB%92s-FZ-Presentation-in-Pasadena
It includes the video of my presentation . . . the title of which is “The Tech Error of 1962-63 and How it Went Negative.”
In PT, I run a forum with a couple of hundred members being coached on applying Alan’s technical breakthroughs along with the materials I discovered and added to his published work. Here: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org
Roger
Has anyone else had the thought that the remaining still-ins are a pretty mean-spirited bunch?
At the top is the petty tyrant, and assisting him are the likes of Jenny (what’s-your-last-name-this-week) DeVocht, plus those hovering around her skirts. Recent reports list this Fast Eddy character, Grant Cardone, and others. There is also, sad to say, Mike’s ex-wife and daughter.
None of those people have done anything to make me believe there is the smallest chink in their armor.
The ones to be pitied are those that OSA forces to speak lies about Aftermath guests. Every word out of their mouth is another nail in their coffin, so to speak. They must think “How can I ever hope to succeed in leaving Scientology? I just burned the remaining bridges between myself and the very people most likely to offer me safe haven. Damn. Traps within traps.”
Tick. Tock.
The Tiny Tyrant ran up the Clock.
The Clock struck One,
and the rest Scattered,
Blown to the Four Winds,
Trying to get out of Danger.
Again… and Again.
“Has anyone else had the thought that the remaining still-ins are a pretty mean-spirited bunch?”
Funny you should mention that…yes, I have thought about this. At this point, the cult is operating a fear-based organization directed by Mr. Paranoia. The threats of action made against members in the past were never subtle, according to many here who have shared, but I imagine this has heightened as the numbers dwindle. Anger is a secondary emotion to fear. Besides, isn’t anger a goal to reach on tone scale or whatever it’s called? This is what has been so confusing to me in attempting to understand how this cult can call itself a religion.
I’ve mentioned this before in past posts but the most abhorrent behavior I ever witnessed (via film footage) by a member since following this subject is the video of Rinder’s ex-wife in the parking lot. Every time I see that footage, I’m sickened….and saddened….and repulsed….
Regarding who is left in Scientology:
The last time I was getting services at Flag in 2005 I learned that not only could staff not socialize with public, they couldn’t socialize with other staff in other departments. In other words, the “rumor lines” were cut by isolating staff from each other. Like building a ship with many water tight compartments so that when a torpedo strikes the ship, it only destroys some compartments, but does not sink the whole ship.
Communication to all staff is reserved for top down communication. Miscavige communication lines are then kept clean of rumors and he can give them the mushroom treatment: keep them in the dark and feed ’em bullshit.
That is why they still have staff. The public is a different matter. The Cadones’ etc… are total assholes who know what is going on and make money from the suffering of others.
Robert Amblad, I can confirm what you say. At one point the auditors at Flag were told not to talk to and schmooze their pcs while waiting in line for the examiner. It made for some awkwardness if the line was long. And the SO members could only have libs with their fellow workers in their section. It was divided into something like starboard and port side, for a ship. So on your libs you could only go with starboard staff if you were starboard etc. So you weren’t allowed to fraternize on your days off with the port side if you were starboard. These ship terms were used at Flag decades after the ships on the sea thing ended. Can you imagine working with the same yelling people 24/7 and then to be told those are the only ones you can fraternize with on your day off? Yikes!
Wow! I did not know the scene had become so evil and insane . . . I ended up out in 1985. It was insane enough then, and evil . . . but the rules you cite above are beyond imagining in a sensible world.
“Why did I think that?
It’s going to come out in my next Sec Check.”
“It always does”
When I started to hear the little voices in my head, I wondered about Hubbard’s real understanding of the human mind. This was my good old conscience that they told me so much about in Catholic school. But Hubbard seemed to be starting to control it himself. Was I in too deep? After thirty years I feel nothing but joy. Miscavige looks like an old phony trying to smile. There is no joy. The real joy hits the Scientologists and stops them in their tracks. I have not heard Foolproof’s nonsense in a long time. His logical irrationalism is no match for the joy of thirty years out. Hubbard was an out of control average man. He had no truth to reveal. We could get it out of comic books. But even if his comic books tales were some type of truth, they go in circles and thus are not truth.
Love this comment george!
Jesuit George should heed the words of the Lord: “Do not take the name of thy Lord Foolproof in vain!” Or produce silly little 10 dollar comic books stating that one will spontaneously combust and that Hubbard was Lucifer. Nor believe silly April Fool’s versions of “New OTVIII”. The Lord also stateth “George, thou should have spent longer time on Solo NOTs than a few months and not squirreled it then thou would not natter so much now!” The Lord also stateth: “Heed the words of the Standard Tech Saviour for the words are your only salvation (after long duration sec checking anyway). Thou art consigned to the pits of hell and the pain of the Inquisitor’s rack for thy sins! And wear a hair shirt for the next 20 years as well! Thou dost deserve it!”
As for “being out”, I’ve been out longer than you. And Amen to all that!
Such joy in reading your comment!. If Hubbard had read Milton’s “Paradise Lost” he would have known that God sent a powerful Seraphim or an “OT” to deliver a massive blow to the side of Lucifer’s head [Hubbard’s head]. Time on OTVII or OT VIII or any OT level is of no consequence. Time is an illusion, as you know. If the fundamental assumptions are wrong, the result is wrong. Check your science. There is no way that Hubbard’s childish neo-platonic Gnosticism transformed into his “BT’s” could produce anything valid. Look at pictures of Hubbard. Does he manifest any joy? All you ever see is a forlorn, wondering human. Blavatsky came closer to a definition of an OT than Hubbard. Foolproof, all of you old OT VII’s are the same. You did the bottle drill and think you are superior to all Scientologists. Maybe you are but that does not make you OT. By the way, I spent a lot longer than a few months on OT VII. It was before Miscavige and in those days 8 months was a lot. Besides I spent a lot of time with declared Kathy Roberts as a volunteer. Most audited less than an hour a day. I was in the 12 hours plus category every day. Check the records. If you look at my stats, I did in 8 months what people did in 10 years.
It does not matter how long I was on OT VII. Hubbard had reversed the entire definition of spirits into falsehoods. Check your history. Hubbard’s definitions of thetans and spirits are theoretically impossible. Hubbard used mis-translations from Hindu and Pali scriptures to define his “spirits”. Very Western, you know.
Thank you George! I love reading your comments. ☺
Who is Kathy Roberts and what do you mean that you spent a lot of time with her? Was she auditing you and what does she, whoever she is, have to do with anything?
So as to your NOTs, this is getting curiouser and curiouser! 12 hours a day eh? First I have ever heard of someone totting up that enormous amount per day so it seems that either your Sandcastle C/S needs shooting or you were running – what? As to your 8 months on the level it seems that the list of completions from Source Magazine has it down as 6 months minus the usual toing and froing between levels. This will explain all for you George so you’d better get inventive and mock up some more bogus stuff. Get clever now or you might just spontaneously combust!
Now it seems we are getting closer to the truth of the matter here George – 12 hours a day indeed! Or have you been watching the Exorcist too much?
Foolproof – You mention “. . . the list of completions from Source Magazine has it down as 6 months . . .” . That sounds like a reference to a 30 year old magazine. You must have quite a collection of Scn literature or maybe you have ready access to such. Interesting.
Well Richard, sorry to spoil your little detective ploy but no I am not sitting in a Qual library or an Org somewhere. The list is obtained by simply googling “Scientology Completions” or something similar and a site comes up which contains all of the completions listed in Source and other magazines. I never kept my Source mags, I did collect Advance mags from years ago but they have disappeared somewhere or I gave them away.
As it seems that George has headed for the hills and now hopes that this story will be quietly forgotten – after dropping too much false information on “his” Solo NOTs, I thought I would fill in the vacuum here with possible scenarios, which despite being somewhat outlandish, are nevertheless probably nearer to the truth than George’s little comic book about the April Fool’s version of “New OTVIII”, or now it seems “his” Solo NOTs:
Scenario1: Supercargo or Tech Sec Sandcastle to Kathy Roberts Solo NOTs DofP (thanks again Cindy) – “get your stats up Kathy or it’s the decks for you!” Kathy replies: “There’s no problem sir – I always have George to fall back on with his daily hours – last week it was 10 hours a day so we can just ask him to report 12 hours a day this week! We don’t know WTF he is doing in session, in fact he has the TV on in his auditing room, but…”
Scenario 2: Da Vinci Code type Jesuits in a meeting in the catacombs of Rome, or Boston for that matter: “We need to send an agent like that blond guy who self-flagellates in the film to pretend he is one of those devils and then he can write a silly book based on that malicious nonsense about Hubbard. Who have we got for that role? And make sure he gets clued in as to what these infidels really do in their sessions! We don’t want any slip-ups!”
Scenario 3: Midnight before April Fool’s Day 1988 – a little envelope is slipped under “George’s” cabin door on the Freewinds (this really happened he says, er…). It contains the most confidential data in Scientology (if true of course). George thinks “this cannot be true – surely not?” George appears next day to collect his folder. He does not notice all the Tech staff struggling to contain smirks and laughter. And this carries on day after day but as it is so funny, the Tech staff cannot relinquish their daily fun.
Yes, something like that…
I realize this little story of yours is hypothetical but let’s get back to reality, shall we?
Staff is certainly not laughing. They work for pennies. They work absurd amounts of hours. They are verbally abused. Almost no one is on course. Their orgs are empty.
Yeah, they’re laughing… sure.
Your theme here is somewhat non-sequitur to the theme above here but this is quite usual for comment threads here – it’s a silly childish effort to deflect from the theme above.
Suddenly you are concerned over staff yet spend much of your free time abusing them! The abuse they receive is mostly from people like you. I was one of them for many years and the course rooms were full and the Orgs certainly weren’t empty. The hours were indeed long and the pay non-existent and I wasn’t verbally abused (well, some tried now and then). Yet these staff are still doing something worthwhile. You?
(Don’t know what the hell is up with no reply button on your last post to me, so I’m replying here.)
Are you for real?
Please explain how I could have abused the staff when I was lucky enough to never be in $cientology? Riddle me that.
The staff do things worthwhile?! Oh, dear. You’re delusional. All they do is sit around waiting for people to come in …but no one does. Ok, maybe one person comes in…lol. They do useless busy work so as not to notice that the org is empty and that they’re miserable.
What do I do worthwhile? I take excellent care of my husband and son. I give to legitimate charities. I fight against the vile abuses of Hubbard and DM. I spend quality time with friends and family. I always try to be the best person I can be. I show love to those who mean the world to me.
Thanks for asking. Hope that clears it up.
George, What can you tell me about Kathy Roberts’ declare? What year was it issued? Did she ever do A to E to get back in? WHY was she declared?
I ask because she is a friend and when I last saw her in around 2011, she was staunch, holier than thou top KA drinking sheeple. That’s why it surprised me she was declared. Do you know what she did to get declared?
Cindy – I would be surprised if you get any more “facts” now about your friend from George. As I say I cannot fathom what she has to do with his “OTVII” and probably neither can he – now! But good luck with your quest – really.
Foolproof, what Kathy Roberts has to do with George’s Bridge was at one time she was the Solo Nots D of P and was probably his D of P. She also worked in Qual for a time, so she could have done some Qual cycles on him as a solo nots auditor. So can anyone give me PT data on Kathy Roberts?
Thanks Cindy.
Your body may have left (if that is true) but your mind and soul are still torturously enslaved by wrong knowledg – delusion..
If you have been out for a long time, and you still are attacking critics with hostile language then you may be insane.
You sometimes sound like Elizabeth Hamre. She’s been out for a while and audits everyday. Her mind ended up like yours: hostile to critics of Hubbard and his fantasies.
Hubbard became suicidal by auditing BTs. Your mind is in a mess Foolproof.
You have attained the OT state of hate Foolproof. Your comments remind me more of Gallum than a normal human.
I doubt you are married or in a relationship. Scientology has messed you up big time.
We truly feel sorry for you. I hope one day you can rise above the need to attack people. That need to attack is the ghost of LRH bouncing around in your head like a pin ball machine.
This is your mind in Scientology.
Run like hell all ye lurkers and fence sitters! Save yourself!
Exactly Brian. We do genuinely feel sorry for… anyone still caught in this belief system. It’s truly tragic.
Poor old Brain feels always compelled to write his drivel in response to my comments and as to attacking “people” this coming from someone who spends all of his time on here doing just that – well, you know what “they” say eh? The overt doth speak loudeth in accusation! And always worried about the lurkers as well – so it seems your “mission” here is to try and convince said lurkers not to lurk! Yes, we don’t want any lurkers – they might run OTIII without a meter like you or spontaneously combust like George above. And your “need to attack” is what then Brain? You were obviously given the bum’s rush from the Orgs and if you turn up at any more Indie meetings in the hope of convincing them to cease and desist with auditing then my advice to them is to give you the bum’s rush from there as well! Or what were you doing at the last Indie meeting you attended? Swapping wins? Ha!
And I notice the old “you can’t get a girlfriend” platitude creeps in in the vain and daft hope of casting aspersions but as always, one wonders whether the shoe is on the other foot. After all, who could stomach someone so bitter and ranting as you in a relationship?
Perfect insight into the mind of someone stuck in the belief system of scientology. I would never want to be or think like this. Just saying. Wake up.
Lurkers, Foolproof is a living example of someone becoming a sociopath through Hubbard’s words.
His nastiness, defection and blame can come from agreeing that sympathy is low toned and hate and hostility is high.
His assuming a name, not his own, is proof that his savior – LRH, created in him a fear of writing his real name. Foolproof’s hiding behind a false name is evidence of fear. A fear created by the doctrines of the man he worships.
It’s the karmic boomerang effect. Hubbard sought violent destruction of critics making critics hide from the beast. But now even people who support Hubbard are in fear of writing their real names. The doctrines of Scientology create sociopaths when Hubbard is taken literally. And being literal is demanded by Bubble Bots.
Foolproof is demonstrating for us a few Scientology brainwashings:
1- never discuss with critics, find their crimes
2- hate over sympathy
3- nastiness over kindness
4- unparalleled arrogance
5- Scientology is the only way and all other ways are inferior
6- Ron, the Malignant Narcissist Sociopth is mankind’s best friend
7- ALL CRITICS ARE CRIMINALS BECAUSE:
RON THE ENGINEER, NUCLEAR PHYSICIST, BUDDHA INCARNATE, DOCTOR, INCARNATION OF CECIL RHODES, LOVER OF VESTIL VIRGINS, PRINCE OF DARKNESS, LUCIFER, ANTI CHRIST, LOYAL OFFICER, FARSEC FIGHTING SPACE WARRIOR, PLANET SAVER AND ALL AROUND MENTALLY DISTURBED SPACE JOCKEY………….
RESEARCHED IT.
May you be filled with love and joy FP. May the light within you – the soul, break through the darkness of wrong knowledge and rest your mind in vast unending, unerring wisdom.
Surviving as and for the 8th Dynamic. May these traits be yours evermore.
And so Brian resumes his normal rhetoric. The concern, compassion and niceness didn’t last too long eh?
There is nothing here *except* compassion:
“May you be filled with love and joy FP. May the light within you – the soul, break through the darkness of wrong knowledge and rest your mind in vast unending, unerring wisdom.”
I, a never-in, can see it. Others, former Scientologists, can see it. I wonder why you cannot, Foolproof, and I feel pity for you.
RiverCS – well I don’t know what comments you are reading but obviously not the same comments as I am, which ironically are full of one of those points in another article about sociopaths – “insults, deprecation, negative statements, public or private humiliation” all directed at Scientology and Scientologists . As to your statement that my knowledge is “wrong”, as you have never studied Scientology or experienced it, or had any auditing or training, this is rather a bold statement of yours based on – what? The “insulting, deprecating” comments you read here?
Essentially River, and you may or may not understand this, I have had marvelous case gain from Scientology and appreciate this, whereas most commenters on here haven’t and which actually is fundamentally their main beef.
Your last para is one of the most accurate things you have ever said here. Though your perspective on this truth is obviously different than others,
I doubt there are many who would aspire to having the gains you have had as you routinely demonstrate some of the most unpleasant characteristics of a fundamentalist. Your assertive certainty of your superiority is unappealing in the extreme.
But those who have not achieved gains, after being promised they would because the tech works 100% of the time — and paid dearly for that promise only to have it broken, they are understandably upset.
But what you can’t ever seem to come to grips with is that there are a LOT more people in the latter category than the former. It doesn’t compute to you as Hubbard says this is not possible because the tech always works and is self-correcting even when dealing with the 2 1/2% — which should be the rate of failure of scientology to produce guaranteed results.
Perfectly said Brian!
Scientology produces sociopaths by way of being educated to Hubbard’s malignancy through his words. If there are any new comers to Mike’s blog, the link below that Mike put together guides us through the exact reasons that Scientology produces nasty people like Foolproof, who actually think they are doing good!
This below link will answer all of your questions as to how and why Scientologists can behave like sociopaths.
Scientology is an applied philosophy. Foolproof is predictable. He or she is the product of the words written below. There is no mystery. His or her behavior is all in writing.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/dealing-with-critics-of-scientology-the-l-ron-hubbard-playbook/
After pouring forth bile and vitriol on a more or less constant stream and then making out he is really a decent chap and all that, Brian then accuses me of doing so! Not that I am interested in influencing “lurkers” as Brian admits, but anyone with any intelligence will realize who the sociopath is here, won’t they Brian?
The sociopath was Hubbard. And then some.
Katherine – you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.
There’s no reply button on your last post to me so I’m replying here.
You say I have no clue what I’m talking about after I said Hubbard was a sociopath.
Not surprised you don’t think anything bad about that crazy piece of shit.
He indeed was a sociopath and narcissistic, not to mention an abusive bastard, a criminal, a pathological liar, and a total son of a bitch who liked to destroy families. I won’t even get into his vile and cruel policies.
For the love of Xenu — you’re a piece of work.
Speaking of Xenu, do you really believe all that mess?
Of course Katherine Invalidate must chip in with her 2 cents worth: your comment is directed at Brian but I assume it is really meant for me – well, you can ask Brian – he ran OTIII for 3 weeks on his back porch without a meter. As for you, what’s your beef with Scientology, or are you just here for the invalidation?
Heh.
Foolproof.
So fun. LOVE YA man/woman!
Glad I made someone laugh!
FP —
What’s my beef with $cientology?? You can’t possibly be serious.
How about the endless amounts of lives and families destroyed via disconnection? How about the countless people stalked, harassed, and tormented by $cientology-hired PI’s? How about Fair Game? How about the mind control? How about the fact that it’s supposed to be a “church”, yet no one can leave without $cientology accusing them of non-existent “crimes”? How about Lisa McPherson? How about The Hole and holding people against their will? How about people going bankrupt because of endless fundraising? I could go on and on.
I don’t give a shit about their beliefs, despite how utterly crazy they are. And I sure as shit don’t give a damn what anyone did with or without an e-meter.
Yes, ok, we know all that, but why then don’t you attack JWs, or Israelis for what is occurring in Palestine, or North Korea, or drug dealers etc. etc. Why specifically Scientology then? One of your locale’s drug dealers and the resultant criminality, shootings and murders does more harm in a day than Scientology (or rather some Scientologists) has done in 50 years!
Whataboutism is such a weak method of argument. It’s only slightly above ad hominem.
Hey, I raped someone, but there are a thousand murders that occurred last week, why aren’t you doing something about them instead of focusing on one little rape?
FP —
How could you possibly know if I don’t have major issues with other so-called religions?
The fact of the matter is, I have major issues with JW’s, FLDS, Christianity, etc. I post on other blogs about the abuses within those “religions”.
And I also am disgusted with the Catholic Church for all the cover ups of raping boys. If there is a Hell, they’ll be there.
And I could just as easily respond that your comment is “WhatAbout-WhatAboutIsm” if you follow the illogic. I knew that you would chip in here as my comment, regardless of how you dress it up, puts things into perspective, or, succinctly, makes a molehill out of the mountain that you make. The molehill is still a molehill but it’s not a mountain. But I was actually trying to gauge what exactly was/is Katherine’s beef with Scientology.
Oh yeah, and with all of the “entheta” 🙂 out there at the moment, the still-ins are surely getting pounded on even harder to donate as it is theta to do so to turn the tides. Barf…..
Nancy said: “Oh yeah, and with all of the “entheta” out there at the moment, the still-ins are surely getting pounded on even harder to donate as it is theta to do so to turn the tides. ”
AND that “theta” is so-easily proved to be lies that have stopped making them feel good by now. The purported expansion can be seen locally as contraction towards a pinpoint, the only thing expanding is the
volume of bad news and numbers of past member, often respected OLs (Opinion Leaders) detailing the organizations’ crimes and abuses. And the abuses are obvious to be seen/experienced at their local level, along with the evidence of implosion and worsening non-viability slapping them forcefully about their head and shoulders, along with the lightness of their wallets AND the insurmountable sizes of their debts.
The bridge to total freedom becomes the tomb of financial ruin. Welcome to the golden age of debt. I’d like to thank COB for making this all possible. You rot sir!
LOL but in truth its not funny.
Hi Mike!
Could I ask an off-topic question?
Do you think that David Miscavige watches every episode of Aftermath? It must absolutely enrage him. What about Eddie Parkin (would he be allowed to, or would he be simply briefed on episode contents)?
Thanks for your valuable work Mike.
Guaran-fucking-teed, the little maniac watches.
IF the demented midcreant watches, it’s not while he’s sober, and I expect he trashes multiple viewing screens per episode. Hey, a psychopath’s got to stike out against SOMEthing, doesn’t he?
I often wonder if Miscavige’s sack-lickers realize what a pathetic piece of shit he is. Oh, well, not my concern.
Your turn of phrase has also provided me now with a laugh! In fact I am still laughing a minute later! Takes me back to the good old irreverent days of HCOs and Quals in the 70s!
Nice representation of the trap RB! The status is created so that if you donate a bit towards it, you now have an incomplete cycle on the status (and it is sooo bad to have incomplete cycles). And then the guy asking for the donations has no money himself and has given up his WHOLE LIFE for this gig – so its really hard to argue with him about what sacrifices have been made to make donations. And all he sees is how much freedom and money you have (relative to him) – so he does not hold back on that emotive, guilt-tripping, glib “planetary salvation” line. (Glib because buildings and polished chandeliers do not equal salvation). And the one who started all this sits in the background watching the push escalate. Its ok, though – whatever it takes to get a stat. That’s what is important. The stat. The money. The appearance of success. The stat that justifies the position of power. It’s bullying with a “justification”.
The final lines of the novel (as well as the film) ‘On The Beach’ are: ‘This is the way the world ends, not with bang, but a whimper’. I daresay, this is the fate of Ron’s World . . . . tic, toc . . .
That’s a famous line from a famous poem by T.S. Eliot called “The Hollow Men.” (1925) It’s worth a read. Former Scios will find it an appropriate epitaph for the COS.
https://www.shmoop.com/hollow-men/poem-text.html
Yes, but the final unspoken line in that great film is
It’s Not Too Late, Brother
What with all the Capitalisations of the Scientology-Speak Terms in Regraded Being’s Speech-Bubbles these Days, the Comic Strip is starting to look positively Germanic. I only hope this is a Sign that the Cult will soon be meeting its Götterdämmerung! 😉
Na sicher!
I just read on the Underground Bunker the threat letter from Masterson’s lawyer. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed about legal matters, but if Masterson sues A&E and everyone involved in the upcoming episode, wouldn’t that just force the matter to a trial, when that is exactly what Masterson is trying to prevent? If so, I say, Bring It On!!!
I was thinking the same thing last night. Truth is an absolute defense to slander or libel actions. So any trial would focus on whether the allegations are true. I can’t imagine that going well for Masterson.
Yep!, it looks like Danny “Donkey Punch” is going to trial, perhaps by his own suit, which is an example of “Hoist by his own petard”, I believe.
These days instead of spending money on scientology, I go on vacations to Italy and Canada and Sedona, AZ and Vegas… so many better experiences come from that.
My Life Repair did nothing for me, seeing the statue of David and the Sistine Chapel was a FAR better use of my money. And left much happier memories.
Get out and go see the world.
Badafuco that makes my day! Yes! Leave that scientology crap behind people. See the world and live your life. Enjoy your family. Spend your money on that. It will go further and you’ll actually BE happy. ☺
Welcome back to the real world Badafuco, glad you could join us! Sedona is quite possibly the most stunning place on Earth.
Hi mike and happy new year to you and your family. I am not sure if you can feel it or not but the momentum is really starting to swing in your favour. This battle with COS is like a heavyweight prize fight. We are in the sixth round and you are landing body blows left right and center. Jab and another jab, Scientology is bleeding and they can’t stop it. Their eyes are swelling shut and they can’t see that the knockout punch is coming. The body blows keep coming from you and after every flurry of body shots Scientology makes a desperate wild swing hoping they can end the fight cuz they are tiring.
You have them on the ropes and the crowd is cheering “Rinder, Rinder” just like a scene from the Rocky movies.
Keep jabbing and landing those body blows.
Scientology can’t even defend themselves any more, and set them up for the knockout punch.
I don’t think this fight will go past the 8th round. The championship belt is yours and the COS knows it. Monique Yingling will not throw in the towel though. You will have to deliver the knockout punch to mini-miscaviage yourself.
You are a true champ Mike and there are many thousands of us in your corner.
RB, you have it down. I don’t know how long you were in but definitely long enough to see how it works.
Yea, there’s nothing like an IAS “briefing.”
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. A ridiculous scenario, yes, but as it was explained in that South Park episode, “This is what Scientologists actually believe.” The IAS was the last straw for me. I strongly suspect that the endless demand for donations is the leading cause of the COS’ dwindling membership. And they’ll never have a chance to recover from their downward spiral if they continue turning their flock into bloodless turnips.
Wow. This one is very representative of the pressure and the “think” that goes on inside the bubble. We even did that in the 70’s. Always asking for money, but couch it in words like, pivotal moment in history, reverse the dwindling spiral, saving mankind, clearing the planet, we’re the ONLY chance for mankind etc. But all that verbiage has gotten old now. Who can afford that constant drain of resources no matter what the reason? Spot on RB. 🙂
Hey, Rosemarietropf! Who’s that pretty girl in your avi?
What a sad truth about the endless bleeding that goes on.
,
Thanks RB,
Times must be tough for the last remaniing dupes in the bubble.
LOL! Run, Carl, run!
A special briefing from the IAS! Hold on to your wallet!
Run Carl run! Lol MarcAnon!
MarcAnon said “LOL! Run, Carl, run!
A special briefing from the IAS! Hold on to your wallet!”
Better:”Lock your wallet away in a safe & floor the accelerator, steering in any direction AWAY from the vultures’ rookery. [several puns intended.]
Well, with only about 5,000 scamology public left in the USA at least the damage is getting less. smh
From the cartoon, “. . . until we replenish the War Chest.” In the late 1970’s Elron instituted a 5% monthly price increase on all training and auditing which was blamed on keeping up with inflation. Inflation was high at that time so I went along with it and eventually the prices levelled off. In the early 1980’s the monthly price increases resumed and I think it was blamed on needing to create a defense fund or War Chest since the IRS was after scientology for back taxes. I wasn’t willing to pay the price and split.
That second round price increases caused what some people call the Grand Exodus of scientologists in Los Angeles. Several ex scientologist support groups sprang up and I joined one. We discussed other practices and listened to several channeling tapes which fit the mystical notions most of us had. On one of the tapes a group of blown OTs had recruited a channeller and was grilling the entity about whether OTIII was real or not. He hedged and replied, “Well, that is one of several possibilities . . .” and went on to expound about other opportunities in the Theta Universe. As I recall they were rather irritated that they couldn’t pin him down but I guess he was just trying to calm things down.
Monthly price increases on the already astronomical prices today wouldn’t work so it’s best to seek donations for good works and cathedrals.
Wynski – It was a general comment and I guess I accidentally hit the reply button to you. Anyhow I think you’re right about the 5,000 number, probably composed of wealthy country club type people, those with a remaining net worth gradually being being fleeced and old timers continuing to hang around.
The monthly price increases were at a time when inflation was about 1% a month, bad but not nearly enough to actually justify Scientology’s rate of hikes. Previously, in the 1960s inflation had been about 3% per year, so it would have taken less than a year to catch up if prices actually hadn’t been adjusted in a while.
While, typically, it was spun in a way that people bought in to, it was actually manipulative and exploitative. I’d guess that it was caused by a mix of Hubbard’s increasing greed, and attempts to keep income up as the flood of young baby boomers turned into what at the time was called the “baby bust,” which would have initially hit the hidebound local orgs – and Hubbard’s direct income stream – harder than missions.
Your account of the “Grand Exodus” is an interesting reminder that Scientology had problems other than just the crackdown on the relatively popular missions. What other things also contributed to peoples’ disaffection – was there, for instance, growing realization that Scientology was producing feel-good moments but not life-changing results?
Also, “channeling,” while a complex phenomenon that can involve interesting (though not para-normal) abilities of the subsconscious when it’s not just self-delusion or fakery, has a good bit in common with the so-called cold reading techniques of mediums and other charlatans – it “works” based on saying things so general that they sound, or can be interpreted as, true, so it’s not surprising that the channeler couldn’t be pinned down on a specific answer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
From a scientific realism point of view, my guess is that while in a trance state the channeller accesses some creative stream of consciousness part of the mind. That would give the appearance that the “entity” is more knowing, perceptive and so on than the channeller is in his or her normal state. That said, innumerable people believe in angels, ghosts, spirit guides, ascended masters, gods, goddesses and the list goes on. It’s a BIG universe, 170 billion observable galaxies at last count and the possibility of incorporeal conscious life remains open to discussion.
The group I joined had about fifteen people and we met weekly at someones house. Nobody was much over forty years old so we were mostly baby boomers and at that age nobody was too worried about “losing their eternity” by splitting scientology. I suppose most of us had some hope of developing some paranormal abilities but the main focus was on increasing abilities to attain greater success in life, particularly financial. That wasn’t going to happen with Hubbard and the CoS digging ever deeper into our wallets or purses. We had about eight or ten meetings, had some fun and shared some experiences, and then the group disbanded.
I’m not sure how the tax laws work. If a millionaire spent a half million dollars on Scn over a few years how much of that would be financed by the government?
RICHARD said:
“I’m not sure how the tax laws work. If a millionaire spent a half million dollars on Scn over a few years how much of that would be financed by the government?”
While JOHN P can answer more definitively, my quick answer is “It depends.” If the guy isn’t very savvy(He IS still a scientologist, you see.), it could be a 50% support by the government, depending on the country. For some guys, it’d be as low as about 10% or less. a”w.i.s.e” -registered guy (UNwise) might be able to charge the whole amount to ‘operating expenses’, thus 0 financed by the government. IMO, so-called “W.I.S.E” is about the worst rip-off the cult has perpetrated with its slaves’ acquiescence. The front-group contributes nothing to the company but recommending policies which produce bloat and inefficiency, while demanding a tithe right off of the top, no matter what the operating expenses are.
Zero of that would be financed by the gov’t Richard. That isn’t how taxes work.
The price rises were’t the main reason for the Exodus – the main reason in my observed at the time opinion was the unnecessary harsh stance and injustice coming down the lines. The prices (in the 70s) before the price rises were actually very very low so a slight increase in prices was actually justifiable but then it did carry on too long. DGF WW (Herbie) was against the (constant) price rises and got hammered because of it. So it was maybe a combination of the price rises occurring at the same time as the ridiculous heavy hussar handling coming down the lines, but it was the latter IMO that was the heavy weight that broke the camel’s back, the straw was the concomitant price rises.
As for those dudes you got mixed up with – well, there you go – and went!
The crash in new people into scientology (the % of new people leaving was always sky high) happened around ’76-’77 when the Boomers had to grow up. With that came a crash of active members that continues to this day.
Hubbard and Scientology were never much for acknowledging the reality of the world around them. That period was when the baby boom turned into what was then known as the baby bust, as the flood of youth dried up – Scientology would have suddenly been starved for the flow of “raw meat” they depended on due to the high turnover you cite. Scientology and its members were wrapped up in internal struggles that were part of the picture, but they were also facing an insurmountable but unacknowledged demographic challenge and generational shift.
1976-7 would have been when the last of the baby boomers were starting to hit their late 20s. In 1980 the Preppie Handbook was published, reflecting how the early Gen Xers were very different, and just after that the term “yuppie” was coined, intended to reflect how the hippie generation was turning to establishing careers and settling down.
Hey PeaceMaker – Don’t blame it all on us baby boomers. I audited more than one middle aged person even way back then.
(joke)
PeaceMaker, thanks for that history info. Interesting times for marketing professionals.
I exited in 82 with a lot of friends. A LOT!
There were 2 main reasons in the many people I knew:
It first started out with trying to salvage the church from the unknown thugs taking over.
Then there were wave after wave of people coming to their senses and realizing Hubbard was a well marketed – hypno – shame.
It was only after being out of the bubble of enslaved delusional thinking that we started coming to our senses.
Not sure what happened to you.
Are you a shut in Foolproof? Are you ok? Do you need help?
If you have been out this long and still feel the need to attack critics and protect “mankind’s only hope”, maybe you need to ask for professional help.
Maybe you need help Foolproof. I hope you can get the help you need.
Is this you now being all kind and benevolent and concerned for my welfare? This is indeed a new face you are presenting (for the consumption of some fools on here). One of compassion, feeling, sympathy, decency and many other similar things. I am glad you can take the time off from your usual invective and bile to portray yourself as a thoroughly decent chap. I think I prefer responding to Katherine Invalidate’s comments – at least one knows where one stands with her without all the camouflaged and attempted subtlety.
FP
Just shut the F***k up!!
Get lost!
Foolproof – Your comment above suggesting that the price increases were not the primary reason for the Exodus might be the opinion of a present time (current era) Indie or Freezoner. In other words that if the prices were reasonable and without suppression “pure Hubbard/Scientology” can be delivered. Years ago Indies would occasionally show up on blogs and say they were having fun with Scn but they don’t bother anymore. I guess they switched over to other social media.
I am a current Indie and I was also staff and then an Indie when the price rises occurred, so what’s your point? Is this some sort of special insight that you think I don’t possess?
I and Marildi and one or two others are probably the only Indies posting on this site – most other Indies can’t be bothered and I somewhat understand them. So it depends what blogs you are talking about as well. I am sure many Indies posted here over the years but eventually gave up with jousting with loonies and people who just wanted to destroy the subject. And perhaps these Indies you are talking about have indeed switched over to other social media. So, as I say, what is your point?
FP – The reason for my comment to you here and above is that I couldn’t decide if you were an Indie or a CoS operative sent to disrupt an anti Scientology blog. You might have mentioned it before and I missed it but thanks for the clarification.
It’s possible that many people who want to see the current cherch destroyed or eradicated are neutral about Indies pursuing their version of the subject.
Scn in the 1970’s up to and including the Exodus was an interesting and worthwhile life experience for me. I was totally unaware of the “dark side” of the organization and subject and left because of the price increases.
There are those who wish to see the current Church reformed and those who want to destroy the subject totally, including destroying the Indies. As such I am compiling a list of such gentle folk for and for when the GO forms up again under a reincarnated Mike’s tutelage (he will be on the opposite side of his GPM then), and will pass it on to them from a time capsule buried at Trementina Base in future lives for them to be dealt with! (Maniacal laughter heard in background.) (This statement or rather its replies are designed to lure some more names on to the list!)
Cindy,
As I recall, there was a big round of declares when OT VII crashed after OT VIII was retracted. That would have been around 1989. Kathy was a very good D of P. I would not be surprised if she did A-E.
George M. White
Richard, I don’t think there are many indies left. IVY magazine stopped publishing in 2010, and it appears that the Freezone Convention failed to happen last year. The umbrella organizations, websites and online forums that indies and freezoners attempted to set up are either withering or defunct. The signs are, that they’re a vanishing breed, with the passage of time and advancing age whittling down their numbers.
I think that a lot of old-timers left the CofS with the hope that something could be made of the subject. But no one anywhere has ever really succeeded at that, though a few obviously still hold on to the dream, and to nostalgic notions of supposed good old days. People who come out of the CofS now seem to be completely burned out and ready to given up on the subject – and there’s certainly no successful independent movement for them to turn to.
Yes PeaceMaker. I have monitored the Indie on line “scene” since ~2005. It has shrunk to about 5% of what it was at its height about a decade ago. It basically no longer exists in the English speaking countries.
Winski, thanks for that observation. What do you think has happened to the indies? Are they getting too old and finally passing on, are a lot of them just finally running out of interest in the subject, or what?
I think part of it is that in the long run, Dianetics’ and Scientology’s lack of results undercuts its validity and viability, even though there are individuals to be found who still believe. In the 60s and 70s, it was possible to imagine that the CofS might get it right and finally deliver on promises from improved eyesight to real OT powers; in the 80s and 90s, people could think that the independent movement might fulfill the dream. Very specific results and abilities have been held out, and at some point long-term failure to deliver those, or the real-world proof of scientologists obviously outperforming “wogs” (a few hucksters and actors don’t count – and none of them are on the Fortune 500, or winning Oscars), undermines Scientology’s credibility.
Our exchange has been posted over at ESMB (thanks, TrevAnon), so hopefully we’ll get additional insight from people with their finger on the pulse of the scene:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/how-many-indies-fz-rons-org-etc-these-days.49423/
Winsky, How did you come to the conclusion that the Indie world has shrunk to 5% of former heyday? What do you base this on? I’m not challenging you but just want to know what things you observed to come up with that figure. I’m not defending or attacking Indies, and wish people on both sides of the coin good health and good luck. But my observation is that the same people I knew were auditing are still auditing and CSing, namely:
Trey Lotz, Randy Smith, Ingrid Smith, Karen de la Carrier (I heard she doesn’t take too many auditing cycles on now, but does every once in a while), and a guy in Switzerland or Sweeden, the Dror Center in Israel, Anita Warren and her hubbie in WA, and Pat Krenick and the supposedly new LRH returned guy in WA. I’m sure there are more auditors and CSes in the Indie world than just this. But these are a few names off the top of my head.
PeaceMaker, I’m not completely sure but I believe most, after an amount of time in the real world realize that they were conned. And that scamology is just that, a scam.
Cindy, long term communications analysis and real world non-existence of Indie groups.
The sad thing, though, is that they’re relying on bleeding more and more out of the few who are left – doing even worse damage to those people. Just look at all the accounts about the St. Louis org a while back, where many people went bankrupt and even lost their homes.
Yes PeaceMaker but ANY USA public at this point has all the data they need and are just being unethical towards themselves if nothing else.
Well said, The data is all out there for any USA public.