Oh, if ONLY the staff could/would openly discuss “Aftermath” like that … WITHOUT the guy in the middle KRing the others so they get an express ride to the FPRD, and the (un)Truth Rundown.
Commenters: it’s EASY to support another’s first Amendment right to free speech when they write what you believe; far harder to accept when you disagree. Though I sometimes rag on FOOL proof for incomprehensibility, I am too much a believer in free speech to suggest abridging his right to make a fool of himself.
Also remember, “the right of free speech belongs to the guy who buys ink by the barrel.” (IOW, the right belongs to the publisher, not the random person who wants to unintelligibly rant.) Of course, if you disagree with a particular publisher/blogger, you’re always welcome to start one of your own. It’s almost trivial to start up a new blog on the Interwebz these days. Getting readers and contributors is a different story, involving writing believably and compellingly enough that folks ENJOY what you’re scribbling. It’s a lot more difficult than tagging onto someone else’s work and taking potshots at others. My hat’s off to Mike for the volume of incisive essays he puts up for critique and criticism, not to mention the “Fair Gaming” he endures with remarkably cheerful aplomb. Branching out to the Aftermath show, then the Foundation shows his real dedication to getting the truth broadly disseminated, not the “acceptable truths”(lies) that scientology may eventually abandon since they DON’T WORK. IMO, either they’ll stop of their own reasoned (not reasonable!) calculations or their pronouncements will simply be ignored, to the same effect.
Is there a Conspiracy theory™ that exists that scientologists won’t buy into wholeheartedly? I include Tubby’s delusional “Cancer is caused by not smoking ENOUGH.” As a chimney for 45 years, I recognize the impulse to justify that addiction. 10 years after being forcefully “cold turkeyed” then not a pack to be found in the house, I’m STILL fondly remembering how sweet the smoke seemed at times.
[RFIDs in business cards…. inDEED!] would be a good trick if they could pull it off undetectably, but you’d still need the cards going through active detectors. *** I know what we can do….… How ’bout networking all all anti-theft devices in the malls together to track “Foundation” business cards, credit cards, and drivers licenses, and each card has a unique ID keyed directly to the recipient and they also track every store you enter/exit and what you bought (or stole). i’ll get right on that programming i have on pause in another window. “Big Brother ain’t got nuttin’ on US…. We can reconstruct your whole life just from the data we collect. Let’s make the business cards assume the same ID as their driver’s license or Passport from simple proximity The D/L and Passport are big enough to have those new plastic batteries so can themselves be active, broadcasting their current positions, and being recharged through the pressure of being in a pant’s pocket or wallet. Is it any wonder I got paid fairly well for coming with innovative programming solutions? I got a million of them, each more incredible than the last.
Loved today’s blog!
LMFAO!!!!!!!
Incidentally, I got a piece of promo from CCInt trying to get me to join the Sea Org. Here’s the LRH quote from the flyer:
TO JOIN THE SEA ORG IS THE SENSIBLE THING TO DO.
Cue laughter.
Hello Mike. Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is inappropriate for me to make this kind of post to your blog. It certainly is off topic. The only thing I can say in my defense is that I have waited until the very last moment before posting it. I expect that most everyone else will be posting to the “Saturday” thread and so at least – this post should not interfere very much with the flow of your blog.
I would like to ask you how you can possibly manage to do all the work you do. Specifically, you seem to create a blog entry every single day. Seven days per week. Three hundred Sixty Five days per year. That would be enough to cause burnout with most any human being. How do you manage to do it?
Does the answer have something to do with the fact that someone else does most of the work on Thursdays and Fridays?
Thursdays consist of “Thursday’s Funnies” and I’m not at all certain. But my guess is that they are usually written by someone else besides you. Is that true? Or do you always do the work to prepare the “Thursday Funnies”?
Fridays consist of entries by “Regraded Being”. I always assumed that was someone other than you. But I would not be surprised to learn that it is a pen name you use to produce your blog entries on Saturdays.
If you have not already explained who creates the blog entries on Thursdays and Fridays, is it possible for you to explain who does create them?
If you are the one who creates the entries for both days, I need to ask you you can possibly find the time and energy to do all this work. I would guess it would be far too much for any ordinary being. Have you found a way to really acquire “Super Powers” after all?
Please feel free to just delete this entry and to avoid answering these questions if you wish to do so. I would not object one bit to your doing that.
Various people send me the materials for the Thursday Funnies and I compile them and write my own snark. Regraded Being is NOT me and gives me a break on Friday’s. Others also give a break when they write things like Terra Cognita and Brian Lambert. There is no shortage of material…
I prefer to read and think over the topics and comments before making my own comments so I’m always posting on old topics. Mike should take the weekend off so I can catch up.
As a heavy marijuana user (I have a prescription, and often go through two ounces a month for pain relief), I’m going to disagree with the comments on stoners. I’m fully functional at all times.
It works a hell of a lot better than the opiates I was one before, with way lower side effects.
I know there is a big difference between the Tiny Fuhrer and R. Kelly. But R. Kelly was today charged with sexually abusing 4 victims, at least 3 of them minors.
I wonder if the Tiny Fuhrer is hearing those footsteps now and whether he is starting to sweat.
That reminds me of Danny Masterson. Why they haven’t charged him is so criminal. I hope that his segment on Leah and Mike’s show DOES air some time in the not too distant future.
All true, and in addition, forget cults, ordinary people get conned one way or another all the time. There are all kinds of scams out there that have nothing to do with religion. People are vulnerable to them and fall for them and get ripped off for all kinds of admirable and not so admirable reasons.
This may be just my own opinion but I think most people got involved with Scientology because they themselves needed help AND had a strong desire to help others too. I think with Scientology, the “hook” initially is “help”, desire to help and be helped, and then, after a while, once their family and friends were in, or possibly their incomes were dependent upon other Scientologists, once they’d invested enough time, effort and money in the cult, what traps them are the double threats of Fair Game and Disconnection.
Your comment is easily discernible by me and — tellingly — is all too correct
I did not become active participant in Branded SCN to later start contending with OSA Trainees yet decades after becoming inactive ( still interested ) ♦ In what I now thing Mr. Rinder can advise as Deep Seeing I have full-on distortions in REM Reverie → at age of 3 before I can even begin walking • I needed no help nor did I join for strong desire to help others as I was stuck here similar to what in SCN Formally is described as Stuck Picture
It is my Destiny which is neither a burden nor a gift
Expect RFID Aftermath tracking chips in any electronic cards
They come bearing Gifts
Do not accept them neither reject them; Avoid Eye Contact
7-s are beaten to ( decedent ) with forced; scheduled; Sec Check ~ where you write a check
Scamology would be a better name now
I respect COB for adhering to Simon Bolivar HCOPL
That does not say that I will look him in the eye
He has not done 7 Obviously as his soul is vacant; Harmless; Not worth my time
A rapid eye movement (REM) dream sleep that results in feelings of strong terror; fear; distress; or anxiety is something that I can just awake from at-will based on other extremes which have to do with my Ruin: Sales tells you that you have a Ruin
This is to introvert you or the person they are selling and thus Scamology is doing well
As always, you are dead right with your kind and compassionate reasoning. According to my observation (from 76 til now) that’s what I have seen too. People wanted to learn more so they could understand themselves better along with other people. Then they wanted to have some effective way to help others.
I know I did.
No one gets in saying, “Hey!! I heard you guys are a nasty *ss cult! I’ve always wanted to join one. Can I join yours and learn how to suppress people too? Thank you! I’ll do my best, um, or, my WORST!” lol
I love the “electronic tracking chips in Aftermath cards” – very creative conspiracy thinking. And the twisting of Aftermath Foundation money, which is being used to help escapees, into a “come help the dark side” enticement is a brilliant example of totalitarianism propaganda.
(Makes me wonder just how much internal chaos would ensue if a generic panel van with a dish on top parked in front of one of their important buildings and then pointed the dish at it.)
Once again, kudos. However I can’t help but wonder what delightful insights “Tom Cruise guy” would have added to this conversation.
This needs to happen ASAP! Someone please get a van with a fake dish, and slowly circle the building, making sure the dish stays pointed at it. Park for a while, then if someone gets close, leave, and continue to circle. Obey all traffic laws, and see what Clearwater PD does when their master calls.
HOW do some people get sucked into cults…..Well, I grew up in the 60’s & had friends/associates that got into Hare Krishna, the Moonies, the Children Of God, & a few other random never heard of “religions”. Some got into drugs, hung out on street corners begging for money. They were ill fed, ill housed, not mentally straight after brain washing of SOME SORT.
Some of these young people started out with GOOD INTENTIONS…..wanting to “Save The World”…(the word Planet wasn’t used). BUT to THINK & be coerced into just BELIEVING they could actually DO something to change things as it was, only if they “joined in as full fledged members”.
Some didn’t want to “live their parents’ BORING lives…they wanted MORE excitement, a CHANGE, be surrounded by LIKE MINDED PEOPLE as in COS….there you go….sucked in. PROMISED different things that would never come true….moved around a lot, kept from being in contact with their parents, siblings, friends on “the outside”…..all about ISOLATION & MIND CONTROL
No, not the standard 1x a week “church attendee” or the few times a year church attendee…but some of the young people SEARCHING to SOMETHING they didn’t currently have. For some it was LOVE, the 60’s generation was the LOVE Generation…these “cults” promised them love love love. Well, they got sucked in for a few months, years, decades.
The baby boomer Age of Aquarius crowd kept the thing going in the late sixties and seventies. Miscabbage should acknowledge us but I don’t think he’s much into history. I got to watch the musical “Hair” in NYC around 1970 which featured this song. I was probably stoned when I attended.
That last part about going back to smoking weed hits on a certain point.
Scientologists, with the self-indulgent navel-gazing (and occasional mental rush) of auditing and past lives, and the belief that they’re somehow saving the planet, indeed remind me of the pot smokers I knew who thought that they were somehow bettering themselves by indulging in mind-altering substances, getting high and doing other drugs such as psychedelics. They sat around imagining that they were expanding their consciousness, and preparing themselves to be part of an enlightened elite who would usher in a grand new phase of humanity, with dimensions expanding into outer space – such as migration to other planets (see, for instance, Robert Anton Wilson, and SMILE or space exploration and life extension).
One of the frequent contributors over at ESMB recently wrote that a lot of people they knew who did the OT levels early on, became disillusioned with the lack of meaningful results, gave up on Scientology and went back to doing drugs. That makes sense particularly among the baby boomer demographic of spiritual seekers who were looking for consciousness expansion – and that’s the cohort that Scientology was particularly successful with during the heyday of the late 1960s and early 1970s, and continuing to some extent into the 1980s, who still make up a large part of the diehards.
It also strikes me that in many ways involvement in Scientology looks like an addiction, such as occurs with drugs, and other things as well. It has many of the same signs as gambling addiction, with the focus around money, in particular: continual need to do more, going to extremes including draining assets and even fraud to get more money, sacrificing relationships, etc.; and the stories of children woefully neglected while parents put all their time and resources into Scientology, sound exactly like what the children of drug addicts suffer.
The price of an intensive of auditing is $3000 to $10000, or maybe $1200 on the outside. The price of LSD on the darknet is $3 to $5 per tab. So, being a druggie and tripping every other weekend might cost $10 per month. Being a Scientologist can easily cost $10,000 per month with the same or less satisfactory result.
I did both and I maintain that my brain was merely basted and not fried. I wonder why taking LSD disqualifies someone from joining the sea org. In the early days of LSD research it was thought that people could have unexpected flashbacks from LSD use. Maybe that’s the data Elron was working with when he came up with the Purification Rundown. It would be unseemly and possibly dangerous to have scientologists unexpectedly tripping out in the courserooms or sea org quarters. Talking someone down from a bummer would be disruptive in any event.
Richard, you seem to think the LSD prohibition was a BAD thing? IMO
, it was good in that some poor souls were excluded from that mindfcuk, so they couldn’t be used to lure others in or to keep their families trapped inside.
I found 5 years of the SO to be more than anyone should subject themselves to – – – And that was BEFORE dwarfenführer started squirreling things around.
BTW, Where IS shelly, Davey’s wife? ( I assume there’s no divorce since that’s a public record, easily discovered.[ As long as it’s done in an industrialized country.]
Jere – I agree that the LSD prohibition is a good thing. Several people have commented that they took LSD on purpose when they were teenagers just so they could avoid being recruited. I think Elron ramped up sea org recruiting in the seventies as a priority but most of us were first generation and could brush off sea org recruiting. Incidentally, for a while the military was concerned that LSD users might freak out in combat and some people got draft deferments.
Jere- I should have added “being facetious” to my comment. Being silly or facetious sometimes doesn’t come across right on a blog and I’ve gotten into a couple of scrapes in the past for not indicating my intent – haha
As an experiment I only entered mikerindersblog.org in the website field to see if it goes through
R., I think that, like the prohibition on “other practices,” Hubbard was trying to prevent people from finding out that there were other paths to the same sort of altered-state experiences that Scientology provides, from the “high” of auditing and the feeling of personal growth, to the dissociative and out-of-body experiences of “exteriorization.” He probably also fell for the then-popular belief that you refer to, that LSD users could have “flashbacks,” which fit with the theory that the purif is based on about the body retaining drugs in fatty tissues (not original to him, either).
A seasoned commenter over at ESMB, recently posted that they knew people decades ago who became disillusioned with the OT levels, gave up on Scientology and went back to using drugs. That exemplifies the threat to Scientology, when people know that there are other routes to the same sort of experiences.
Also, I think Hubbard didn’t want people around, who might have understood how he had come to “rise above the bank,” which probably started with his 1938 experience on nitrous oxide (“whippets,” a dental anesthetic Hubbard was probably experimenting with as a recreational drug) that resulted in “Excalibur” (the description of which fits with a classic type of revelatory nitrous oxide high). And then if his son “Nibs” and other sources are correct, that was augmented by later psychedelic drug experimentation as well, along with his copious use of mood-altering drugs such as the stimulant benzedrine that he promoted early on, and the “pinks and grays” that he referred to.
Peacemaker, I agree. Too bad Vance Woodward had to withdraw his book “Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups and Downs of Scientoloholism”. Quite a bit about that idea in that book.
You could make a pretty good case for comparing Scientology to other forms of addiction, as a form of “natural high”. Except that for the most part the drug pushers will leave you alone if you tell them you are no longer using. The Scientologists won’t take no for an answer.
I remember the days when drugs, sex and rock-and-roll were supposed to save the world from itself or something. Probably all young generations think the same thing, but in the days when the baby boom was coming of age it was like a tsunami of teen spirit. And the sign said “long-haired hippy people need not apply”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYsBDmqJfjQ
Yes PM i totally get what you are saying about being addicted to scientology. I knew a person (who of course i am disconnected from now) whose eyes would dance when he was talking about scientology stuff. I remember being too afraid to reply back because he would only make me so wrong. He would watch for my response then judge me – talk about being paranoid. Anyway he works only to have the money to pay to go up the bridge. He lives by the scientology rule book and is totally addicted.
This has a stunning similarity to things you might actually hear in an inpatient mental hospital! Two people in a delusional state of folie-a-duex while another is just there due to temporary drug psychosis. Seriously- I think I’ve heard this exact conversation during my psych rotation!
Where is Shelly…..what a horrible thing to say. These people are suffering enough and don’t need the likes of your kind spewing out ignorant and inhumane comments intended to hurt. You are evil.
You should join Scientology. They are hiring evil, stupid, ignorant fools like you who enjoy hurting others and think they are Homo Novus and superior. You would fit right in and rise up the ranks quickly to work abusing people – you horrible person.
THX Mary! Woke up to a bright shiny day with lots of snow on the ground. We had blueberry pancakes with real maple syrup and thanked our lucky stars that our mailbox remains Pee Are free and the call-ins are non existent !
Sounds like you are having lots of fun with downtown CW. Keep up the good work. I hope this is the year our kids will make the change.
One of the only ways you got “paid” as a Sea Org member was through exalted flattery from Hubbard.
“Scientologist are the upper tenth of the upper 10%…”
“ The Sea Organization is the only group capable of reversing the decline in this universe…”
“ If this universe recovers, it will be because of the Scientologist…”
Blah blah blah…
This technique works for a while, particularly with the younger, newer recruits. Hubbard had hacked into a basic human need for people to feel important, useful, and to be part of something bigger than themselves.
What bigger thing could you be involved with, than fixing the entire universe? And while you’re being opposed by a population implanted to fight against you at every step?
Look, we’re talking the whole fucking universe. Star Wars only happened in a piddly little galaxy far far away.
While there is no doubt that Hubbard turned the volume way up on his flowery praise of his unpaid servants, I think that he truly believed that he was this great spiritual leader, the only one capable of saving the universe. And the sincerity of that belief came through, and actually served him well in his wholesale manipulation of people.
I loved your comment John Doe, but I am not sure LRH thought he was a great spiritual leader. I think he viewed himself as a “carni” and his followers as gullible.
That’s the question I always struggle with. Was LRH a “carni,” who knew he was pulling a con the whole time, or did he really believe in what he was doing? Or did he start out as a knowing conman and eventually come to believe his own line of bullshit?
I tend to think he was always a conman, but I do sometimes wonder.
I would tend to agree. But I think it was John Brousseau who said LRH seemed sincere in believing his tech would help people. “Seemed” being the key word, maybe.
I have no doubt that the whole religion angle was motivated by money, and power, but at the beginning did LRH really believe this technology did something useful, or did he know it was snake oil the whole time?
Again, I believe he knew it was a con the entire time, but until he gets back from Target 2 we can’t really ask him.
My guess is, that he started out trying to con people. But he had a huge ego. And once people started treating him like a messiah, it went to his head; and he began to think he was really on to something.
His connection to Crowley suggests that he didn’t totally discount things like ‘magic’.
In my opinion, I really think Hubbard was sincerely searching for help with his own inadequencies, but his absolute refusal to really acknowledge and admit the problems kept getting in his way. However, I also think he got addicted to the money and the lifestyle, as well as the power over other people. I think this entitlement probably grew worse as his mental state deteriorated. In the end, I just feel like he was a shell of a person who wasn’t at peace with anything. I see him as a sad and misguided character who was never at complete peace with himself.
I’ve thought about this a lot and conclude that he may have started out as a carni..(He knew exactly what he was doing and knew right from wrong…he perpetrated unlawful acts and directed others to do the same…nothing has changed today)…but at some point on his journey, he lost all sense of reality as he immersed himself in his ramblings and ruminations, drug use, and god complex…. Obviously, he was predisposed for psychosis based on a lifetime of “creating” a self-image far from reality…. The cult provided a platform for that pyschosis to flourish… That’s just my opinion….I would love to do a psych eval on this guy.. Lol..
Robert, I also find Hubbard hard to peg. But I’ve come to see that he had a sort of Darwinian, might-makes-right take on spirituality that needs to be considered.
His claimed “very good friend” Crowley (who himself had connections to the Thule Society that spawned the Nazi Party) for instance desired a return to the “law of the jungle” and revered Nietzsche, who promoted the idea of the Superman (Übermensch) and derided the “slave morality” of traditional religion. If anything, Hubbard aspired to be a different sort of spiritual leader, in a way that defies traditional expectations – including conventions, like equity and compassion, that he thought where just “implants” or other impediments to the expression of pure will and the “theta” spirit.
There’s an interesting psychological biography that has some chilling parallels with Hubbard, as well as touching on the intersection of fascism with spirituality and religiosity:
I suppose we will never know fully what he had in mind. As for me, I’ve come to believe that LRH was BOTH a huckster and a self-styled guru.
He really believed he had done something spectacular, something no one else had with his “discoveries” in Dianetics, and he was baffled, hurt, and infuriated that the world did not embrace him as the genius he thought he was.
Narcissist.
But then the selfish greedy, abusive, and manipulative LRH would get a turn at bat.
The first time I felt I understood LRH (other than when I was an extreme KSW koolaide drinker) was when I accepted what he said about himself: “The ends justified the means” and that whole “black magic” thing he was into in his early years (same age as I was when I got into Scientology). Anyway, he learned you could get ahead by harming others IF it forwards your “will”…. LRH bought this hook line and sinker. Essentially, he got rid of his own conscious with his own “will” which then gave him control over us (me).
1 – The Guru / Messiah – Remember, he got audited, he wanted various processes done on him even when it would not make him money. This shows he had some belief in it.
2 – Greedy Businessman – His first though on achieving “enlightenment” was to sell it for as much money as possible. It’s like the stereotype of the CEO who finds a revolutionary product and sells it at the highest price possible.
3 – Paranoid tyrant – The dude saw enemies everywhere and was willing to sell out anyone for his own survival.
I think you have expressed this well, Omega. I agree that all of those personalities existed in him. And the last two particularly, in his later years.
As I think about this, I would say there were elements of another personality, one that craved approval and recognition from those he perceived as his equals or those higher socially than he.
And if he were dismissed by those he considered higher socially, it depressed him and enraged him and he would seek revenge.
Those who opposed him that he considered lower than he were targets of abuse or destruction, without any sense of remorse or empathy.
When I was in, I think half the time I was a conspiracy theorist like the guys on the left, then the longer I was in, the more I got to be like the guy on the right. Seriously ?, talk sense or talk about something else at least.
That was the point when I wished I could afford a book to bury my nose in.
Aaah the little luxuries we take for granted out here.
I find it interesting that Scientology has shifted from attracting a rather liberal demographic, to having a more conservative one – so much so that I think it is hard for people who look at the orgs and missions now to understand what it was like in the 1960s and 1970s, and even into the early 1980s. Some of that comes from organizational and demographic shifts over time along with social changes after the 1960s, and some of it is Scientology itself changing people, particularly as Hubbard himself became more conservative in his dotage.
Scientology is also in some ways fundamentally a conspiracy theory, with Xenu and “psychs,” so it’s not surprising that various aspects of such thinking are common among the rank and file.
I have been off-of / away from dope since 77 when I arrived at Dallas Mission which at the time was flourishing; Since that time I have had to contend with being a believer yet having such warped events as Psycho Tropics placed as Qual Sec ♦ At the time of one of the mutinies I told wife I wish to attend for study; The meeting will only draw 20 with only 30 at most then went to clarify there would be no success based on ideas of Mission Holder ♦ Some say some of Hubbard’s exotica is dopey and there is some validity to the claim; Yet I have had to re-formalize my notions to allow for practical that there are no Space Cooties as described by Hubbard since such things just cannot exist in any Inter Galactic Physical Craft; An Idea is not bound by physical features such as Space and Time { MEST in the lingo }
There is NO L Ron Hubbard “technology”. Zero, zilch ,nada. You’ve all be conned by a psychopathic science fiction writer. ITS PATHETIC. Mr Rinder, how do people get sucked in by this BS.
‘Where is Shelly’ – what a rude thing to say. You obviously have done no research on how cults work.
As a never in – I can only imagine how humiliating it would be to learn one was conned by a church. This organization – Scientology – uses tricks they play on members to fool them into joining and they lie. it sounds like you have no compassion for those who were tricked, lied to, deceived and betrayed by a “church”.
Why don’t you go somewhere where you would be appreciated like a Scientology Org. They like people like you who are cruel and have no empathy or compassion or don’t do their research before they speak out. How dare you come onto a blog written by a man who was born into the cult and was manipulated and deceived. Mike endured physical and emotional abuse. He is an outstanding human being. Mike Rinder has courage you can only fantasize about ‘Where is Shelly’.
Go play with ISIS or Scientology where they would value someone like you. You have bad manners and no empathy for people who were harmed by an organization that uses smoke and mirrors to trick people into joining.
I am a never in and am so impressed with Mike Rinder, Leah Remini and all of the others who have spoken out. I read and watch everything regarding Scientology and can’t wait until it is dismantled.
I typically don’t post but felt the need to say something to this asshole ‘Where is Shelly’. Ban him please Mike. He has nothing of anything useful to say here.
Fortunately, Mike doesn’t ban people just because they post something that some people find insensitive. The two rebukes of “Where is Shelly” posted here are far nastier than anything s/he wrote.
You need to read your own comment where you said a lot more than “How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit”. Frankly, the rants of the never-ins who have had no experience with scientology (compared with the many here who were in for decades) know little or nothing about our experiences yet continue with a diatribe of “How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit” which is boring at best.
Even your response to Aqua, “I don’t quite understand where you are coming from and truly would like to hear you out. I respect you and enjoy your posts.” Is kiss-ass.
And finally, “Ban him please Mike. He has nothing of anything useful to say here.” Really? And you called him an asshole?
Peabody – I did not say ““How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit” – The jerk ‘Where is Shelly’ said that.
Read the posts more carefully.
I was talking to Aqua – not you. I do enjoy his/her posts and respect what he/she has to say. I don’t care what you think about that and did not ask your opinion. You seem very hateful.
Your post is inappropriate. You are very reactive and you are pointing that reaction at the wrong target. Point it to Scientology. I did nothing to harm you.
I am on ex Scientologist’s side and have compassion for those that got taken in and harmed by the cult
As they say in Scientology – Pick the right target and write to the IRS to have Scientology’s tax exemption taken away. That would be more productive than spewing out your hateful confusion attacking a supporter here on Mike’s Blog over some asshole who is insulting Scientologists who got tangled up with the cult.
Aquamarinesays
Thanks for asking me this, Scientology Watcher.
I assumed there was a troll on the blog because both “Scientology Watcher” and “Aftermath Fan”‘s comments were very similar in content and very similar in their venomous tone in expressing disagreement with Where Is Shelly’s comment. Both of these comments under different names went right for the jugular blasting Where Is Shelly as a horrible person and calling him/her to be banned from the blog. I assumed that there was one person behind both names. I didn’t give it much thought, frankly. Perhaps these were bad assumptions on my part. Perhaps and the similarity in the content of the remarks as well as the similarity in the context are merely coincidental. Perhaps I jumped to conclusions based on my own spontaneous assumptions and you’re not a troll at all. If that’s the case, I apologize to you.
Thanks Aqua – thank you for responding and clarifying. I thought the ‘Where is Shelly’ poster was rude and inconsiderate and felt the need to say something. There were others who said stuff about the inappropriateness of his/her post as well and others who supported my post. Then there was Anna J and Peabody. It is weird to think I am David Miscavige or a troll. Makes no sense. Regardless, I am on your side and always will be. I guess that makes me an SP. lol
Anna J.says
I think that commenter was quite rightly spot on there ya fake Scientology Watcher. My guess is you’re really a drunk David MisCavige playing the role of a fake outraged keyboard warrior.
“As a never in – I could only imagine how humiliating it would be to learn one was conned by a church”.
Humiliating – true. But then, its humiliating to learn that one has been conned by anybody.
But worse than humiliation is the shock and pain of having trusted, and then been betrayed. Betrayal after trust.
I have some Jewish friends who are fond of the following expression: “Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME.”
That pretty much sums up our attitude toward Co$ – we on this blog, who were once in the Church of Scientology.
We trusted, we believed that there was goodness, good intentions.
And we got shafted. Some FAR worse than others, but we all got shafted. We all experienced betrayal after trust. We all realized we made a big mistake, trusting this organization. And we got out. They don’t have us to be used and conned anymore, so they concentrate on their remaining, compliant victims.
Point being, yes, we trusted the wrong people and were conned for doing so. But they’re not conning us anymore.
This is a CHURCH. They’re there to HELP people – they say. Ok, we believed them. We were wrong. We got the shaft.
But we learned and got out. Sadder, poorer and wiser, we got out.
We can hold our heads up now. We learned.
On the other hand, for a CHURCH to cloak itself in the guise of help yet behave like con artists, and grifters, for a church to use, exploit and ruin people, to cause immense pain and suffering to people all under the guise of helping them…to my mind, the lasting shame and humiliation, the utter disgrace of this should be – and IS – – theirs. Wholly theirs.
I think that’s a very insensitive comment to make, to be completely honest with you. We are all susceptible to psychological manipulation, and for someone to believe that they’re immune to being manipulated, is ignorant, arrogant, and extremely dangerous.
The best con artists in the world seek out people who have convinced themselves they could “never be duped”. Those are the easiest “marks” for them. They want people who have that false sense of security, because those are the ones who let their guard down because they foolishly believe “it could never happen to me”. Skepticism can be vitally important for our own protection, as well as a healthy dose of humility, so that we may recognize that we all have vulnerabilities that can be exploited by those who have nefarious intentions.
Now, will any of us never-ins who frequent this website & others, watch Aftermath, etc. ever “fall for Scientology”? No, probably not. However, you have former members who have spoken out about the dangers of associating with this organization to thank for that. As for other “cons” out in the world that may not have been as exposed to us as Scientology has been? I would be extremely careful of believing that you’d “never fall for any BS”. You’re practically handing con men the best tool they can use against you (and your good intentions).
Where is Shelly,
I may be able to help you understand a little about cults, but is generally easier to grasp if you do your own research. There are many, many, many ways that cults work to draw people in. Some look for vulnerabilities, some promise riches or power, some eternal salvation. There is basically a cult out there for everyone if you are unlucky enough to cross paths with it. It does not denote a weakness or any type of mental deficiency- there are plenty of rich powerful people in cults (just look at Tom Cruise). The fallacy of thinking someone immediately jumped up and said “I beleive is everything you’re saying Mr. Hubbard” isn’t likely to be how most people were brought in. This cult shows a bright, attractive front and “goal” at first- trying to do good for mankind and helping others. That isn’t what the underlying cult is, but it’s what they put forth. Many adherents were either born into it, or joined well before the internet allowed for a quick goggle-check. This is true about many cults. Plus, once you are in there is a gradual tightening of the reins and a separation from others who are not in. That’s where the secrecy comes in. It is easy to isolate people and make them reliant on the cult.
Like I said- every cult is different, and hopefully you never cross paths with one that appeals to your fundamental beliefs. People who manage to disengage from cults at the expense of all that they know and in the face of personal rejection are to be greatly admired. Even if something fails to make sense to an “outsider”, it should be looked at as if you had to divorce yourself from all of your most personal beliefs and truths. I hope this helps to understand how cults pull in people.
All true, and in addition, forget cults, ordinary people get conned one way or another all the time. There are all kinds of scams out there that have nothing to do with religion. People are vulnerable to them and fall for them and get ripped off for all kinds of admirable and not so admirable reasons.
This may be just my own opinion but I think most people got involved with Scientology because they themselves needed help AND had a strong desire to help others too. I think with Scientology, the “hook” initially is “help”, desire to help and be helped, and then, after a while, once their family and friends were in, or possibly their incomes were dependent upon other Scientologists, once they’d invested enough time, effort and money in the cult, what keeps them in are the double threats of Fair Game and Disconnection.
Aqua,
The hook of helping people is really strong, and appeals to many people- I would be vulnerable to that as well. That and the self help/improve your life spiel are the bright, shiny baubles that are used to lure the unsuspecting into Scientology. It is so easy to see the appeal to everyone who is still in, but it’s also easy (from the outside looking in) to bypass this aspect and look at the insanity of ‘xenu’ and other wacky parts. It’s also not hard to see the bait and switch where parisoners are lured into giving revenue to the organization. I think that many people (like where’s Shelly) may not see the beginning of the chain that keeps people bound to the cult- it’s like the Manson family or People’s temple, Waco, heavens gate etc.- people see the end results, but don’t look at how it escalated from something appealing into something horrible. People wouldn’t join if they knew where it would ultimately lead- you can’t condem anyone for joining until you look at what they actually joined- not where their journey ended. I’m not saying that some people don’t deserve to be condemned if they deliberately join a hate group/cult, but that’s a whole other type of cult that has no bearing on the above.
The best thing to do is to try to educate people who don’t have knowledge of how cults work or how they pull in members.
If “how do people get sucked in?” is a real question, the answer is to google cults, comma, how to people get sucked in.
Or you could go to any website pro or con on religions like the Latter Day Saints, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Westwood Baptist, or any of a number present and past – Jones Temple, Waco, Children of God…
The answer to your question is simple: There but for the grace of god, or luck, go I.
OK, I admit it. I’m working for the Dark Side. I saw Tiny Boots hook his wrist up to that #12 copper ground wire last night. He looked a little pale and drunk on hooch.
In Milton’s Paradise Lost, Lucifer loses his “OT” powers after the battle in heaven.
“Reserved him[Satan] to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witnessed huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and steadfast hate.”
Lucifer was “the light bearer” prior to the battle. After the battle, he is seriously limited in
“OT” range. He has no “OT” powers. His name is changed to Satan which Milton defines as “enemy” or “the enemy”. In Scientology, Hubbard was trying to develop “OT” powers from a base of hate similar to Satan. Creative processing could never work.
Hee Hee!
So. According to the very first OTVIII details (before the Great Dumbing Down), el Ron was trying to get his powerz back? I could see the sense in his not telling anyone that he’d been humiliated in battle in heaven!
L Ron was indeed trying to get his powers back in the original OT VIII. Why did Hubbard never, ever display any OT powers? Well, all of the people around Blavatsky saw no OT powers except for Colonel Olcott. In all of his writings he only makes one exception. He said that he foiled Blavatsky as much as possible, but she could produce a faint knocking sound. He tested her on all OT powers and he could not explain the faint knock. There are stories about Hubbard but none verified.
Olcott was the co-founder of the Theosophical Society along with Blatavsky, so I doubt that he was the most rigorous skeptic. Producing knocking is an old medium’s trick, and I’d wager that for instance he didn’t adequately control for the possiblity that she had some device hidden underneath a large old Victorian dress – maybe even in a whalebone corset!
The reports of possible or supposed OT phenomenon regarding Hubbard that I’ve come across, are all of people who were alone with Hubbard in a room. And they sound to me like classic stage hypnotist’s tricks – and Hubbard was reported by old friends to be able to pull off some fairly impressive hypnotic and post-hypnotic suggestion effects. Ken Urquhart, for instance, reverently recounts experiencing a mysterious pinch while Hubbard sat sitting at a desk grinning at him, which I suspect was just a variation on the standard hypnotist trick demonstrated here:
I wish we knew more about Hubbard’s period as a “swami” in Hollywood. I also suspect he probably picked people to be around him, who were susceptible hypnotic subjects – which has some pretty sinister implications when it comes to those like the messengers, and the things they claim to have no memory of Hubbard doing.
PeaceMaker – The hypnotist trick was funny even though unpleasant for the poor woman. Oddly enough it gives SOME credence to Elron’s theory about the reactive mind, subconscious triggers causing irrational reactions. I’m NOT saying everyone has a Reactive Mind which needs to be erased. laughter
Oh, if ONLY the staff could/would openly discuss “Aftermath” like that … WITHOUT the guy in the middle KRing the others so they get an express ride to the FPRD, and the (un)Truth Rundown.
BTW, RB: minor point, but wasn’t the RPF abandoned due to there being too-defined a way out?
Commenters: it’s EASY to support another’s first Amendment right to free speech when they write what you believe; far harder to accept when you disagree. Though I sometimes rag on FOOL proof for incomprehensibility, I am too much a believer in free speech to suggest abridging his right to make a fool of himself.
Also remember, “the right of free speech belongs to the guy who buys ink by the barrel.” (IOW, the right belongs to the publisher, not the random person who wants to unintelligibly rant.) Of course, if you disagree with a particular publisher/blogger, you’re always welcome to start one of your own. It’s almost trivial to start up a new blog on the Interwebz these days. Getting readers and contributors is a different story, involving writing believably and compellingly enough that folks ENJOY what you’re scribbling. It’s a lot more difficult than tagging onto someone else’s work and taking potshots at others. My hat’s off to Mike for the volume of incisive essays he puts up for critique and criticism, not to mention the “Fair Gaming” he endures with remarkably cheerful aplomb. Branching out to the Aftermath show, then the Foundation shows his real dedication to getting the truth broadly disseminated, not the “acceptable truths”(lies) that scientology may eventually abandon since they DON’T WORK. IMO, either they’ll stop of their own reasoned (not reasonable!) calculations or their pronouncements will simply be ignored, to the same effect.
Is there a Conspiracy theory™ that exists that scientologists won’t buy into wholeheartedly? I include Tubby’s delusional “Cancer is caused by not smoking ENOUGH.” As a chimney for 45 years, I recognize the impulse to justify that addiction. 10 years after being forcefully “cold turkeyed” then not a pack to be found in the house, I’m STILL fondly remembering how sweet the smoke seemed at times.
[RFIDs in business cards…. inDEED!] would be a good trick if they could pull it off undetectably, but you’d still need the cards going through active detectors. *** I know what we can do….… How ’bout networking all all anti-theft devices in the malls together to track “Foundation” business cards, credit cards, and drivers licenses, and each card has a unique ID keyed directly to the recipient and they also track every store you enter/exit and what you bought (or stole). i’ll get right on that programming i have on pause in another window. “Big Brother ain’t got nuttin’ on US…. We can reconstruct your whole life just from the data we collect. Let’s make the business cards assume the same ID as their driver’s license or Passport from simple proximity The D/L and Passport are big enough to have those new plastic batteries so can themselves be active, broadcasting their current positions, and being recharged through the pressure of being in a pant’s pocket or wallet. Is it any wonder I got paid fairly well for coming with innovative programming solutions? I got a million of them, each more incredible than the last.
Loved today’s blog!
LMFAO!!!!!!!
Incidentally, I got a piece of promo from CCInt trying to get me to join the Sea Org. Here’s the LRH quote from the flyer:
TO JOIN THE SEA ORG IS THE SENSIBLE THING TO DO.
Cue laughter.
Mike,
Thank you for giving a glimpse into what you get in your inbox every single day. Wow.
Hello Mike. Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is inappropriate for me to make this kind of post to your blog. It certainly is off topic. The only thing I can say in my defense is that I have waited until the very last moment before posting it. I expect that most everyone else will be posting to the “Saturday” thread and so at least – this post should not interfere very much with the flow of your blog.
I would like to ask you how you can possibly manage to do all the work you do. Specifically, you seem to create a blog entry every single day. Seven days per week. Three hundred Sixty Five days per year. That would be enough to cause burnout with most any human being. How do you manage to do it?
Does the answer have something to do with the fact that someone else does most of the work on Thursdays and Fridays?
Thursdays consist of “Thursday’s Funnies” and I’m not at all certain. But my guess is that they are usually written by someone else besides you. Is that true? Or do you always do the work to prepare the “Thursday Funnies”?
Fridays consist of entries by “Regraded Being”. I always assumed that was someone other than you. But I would not be surprised to learn that it is a pen name you use to produce your blog entries on Saturdays.
If you have not already explained who creates the blog entries on Thursdays and Fridays, is it possible for you to explain who does create them?
If you are the one who creates the entries for both days, I need to ask you you can possibly find the time and energy to do all this work. I would guess it would be far too much for any ordinary being. Have you found a way to really acquire “Super Powers” after all?
Please feel free to just delete this entry and to avoid answering these questions if you wish to do so. I would not object one bit to your doing that.
Various people send me the materials for the Thursday Funnies and I compile them and write my own snark. Regraded Being is NOT me and gives me a break on Friday’s. Others also give a break when they write things like Terra Cognita and Brian Lambert. There is no shortage of material…
Thank you very much for that explanation, Mike.
I prefer to read and think over the topics and comments before making my own comments so I’m always posting on old topics. Mike should take the weekend off so I can catch up.
As a heavy marijuana user (I have a prescription, and often go through two ounces a month for pain relief), I’m going to disagree with the comments on stoners. I’m fully functional at all times.
It works a hell of a lot better than the opiates I was one before, with way lower side effects.
R. Kelly was today charged with sexually abusing 4 victims, at least 3 of them minors.
I think this is important to report because it may portend that The Tiny Fuhrer just may be hearing some footsteps approaching him in his future.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/r-kelly-charged-aggravated-criminal-sexual-abuse
I know there is a big difference between the Tiny Fuhrer and R. Kelly. But R. Kelly was today charged with sexually abusing 4 victims, at least 3 of them minors.
I wonder if the Tiny Fuhrer is hearing those footsteps now and whether he is starting to sweat.
Let us all pray!
Please Zenu!!!!!!
That reminds me of Danny Masterson. Why they haven’t charged him is so criminal. I hope that his segment on Leah and Mike’s show DOES air some time in the not too distant future.
All true, and in addition, forget cults, ordinary people get conned one way or another all the time. There are all kinds of scams out there that have nothing to do with religion. People are vulnerable to them and fall for them and get ripped off for all kinds of admirable and not so admirable reasons.
This may be just my own opinion but I think most people got involved with Scientology because they themselves needed help AND had a strong desire to help others too. I think with Scientology, the “hook” initially is “help”, desire to help and be helped, and then, after a while, once their family and friends were in, or possibly their incomes were dependent upon other Scientologists, once they’d invested enough time, effort and money in the cult, what traps them are the double threats of Fair Game and Disconnection.
This comment of mine above makes no sense here. By mistake I posted it twice. It belongs further down as a response to one of Kat’s comments.. Sorry.
Your comment is easily discernible by me and — tellingly — is all too correct
I did not become active participant in Branded SCN to later start contending with OSA Trainees yet decades after becoming inactive ( still interested ) ♦ In what I now thing Mr. Rinder can advise as Deep Seeing I have full-on distortions in REM Reverie → at age of 3 before I can even begin walking • I needed no help nor did I join for strong desire to help others as I was stuck here similar to what in SCN Formally is described as Stuck Picture
It is my Destiny which is neither a burden nor a gift
Expect RFID Aftermath tracking chips in any electronic cards
They come bearing Gifts
Do not accept them neither reject them; Avoid Eye Contact
7-s are beaten to ( decedent ) with forced; scheduled; Sec Check ~ where you write a check
Scamology would be a better name now
I respect COB for adhering to Simon Bolivar HCOPL
That does not say that I will look him in the eye
He has not done 7 Obviously as his soul is vacant; Harmless; Not worth my time
A rapid eye movement (REM) dream sleep that results in feelings of strong terror; fear; distress; or anxiety is something that I can just awake from at-will based on other extremes which have to do with my Ruin: Sales tells you that you have a Ruin
This is to introvert you or the person they are selling and thus Scamology is doing well
Our battle is different: We are thinking
Hey there, Aquamarine!
As always, you are dead right with your kind and compassionate reasoning. According to my observation (from 76 til now) that’s what I have seen too. People wanted to learn more so they could understand themselves better along with other people. Then they wanted to have some effective way to help others.
I know I did.
No one gets in saying, “Hey!! I heard you guys are a nasty *ss cult! I’ve always wanted to join one. Can I join yours and learn how to suppress people too? Thank you! I’ll do my best, um, or, my WORST!” lol
Kudos RB. (Insert Tip of the Hat emoji here.)
I love the “electronic tracking chips in Aftermath cards” – very creative conspiracy thinking. And the twisting of Aftermath Foundation money, which is being used to help escapees, into a “come help the dark side” enticement is a brilliant example of totalitarianism propaganda.
(Makes me wonder just how much internal chaos would ensue if a generic panel van with a dish on top parked in front of one of their important buildings and then pointed the dish at it.)
Once again, kudos. However I can’t help but wonder what delightful insights “Tom Cruise guy” would have added to this conversation.
This needs to happen ASAP! Someone please get a van with a fake dish, and slowly circle the building, making sure the dish stays pointed at it. Park for a while, then if someone gets close, leave, and continue to circle. Obey all traffic laws, and see what Clearwater PD does when their master calls.
HOW do some people get sucked into cults…..Well, I grew up in the 60’s & had friends/associates that got into Hare Krishna, the Moonies, the Children Of God, & a few other random never heard of “religions”. Some got into drugs, hung out on street corners begging for money. They were ill fed, ill housed, not mentally straight after brain washing of SOME SORT.
Some of these young people started out with GOOD INTENTIONS…..wanting to “Save The World”…(the word Planet wasn’t used). BUT to THINK & be coerced into just BELIEVING they could actually DO something to change things as it was, only if they “joined in as full fledged members”.
Some didn’t want to “live their parents’ BORING lives…they wanted MORE excitement, a CHANGE, be surrounded by LIKE MINDED PEOPLE as in COS….there you go….sucked in. PROMISED different things that would never come true….moved around a lot, kept from being in contact with their parents, siblings, friends on “the outside”…..all about ISOLATION & MIND CONTROL
No, not the standard 1x a week “church attendee” or the few times a year church attendee…but some of the young people SEARCHING to SOMETHING they didn’t currently have. For some it was LOVE, the 60’s generation was the LOVE Generation…these “cults” promised them love love love. Well, they got sucked in for a few months, years, decades.
What they searched for never really existed…..
The baby boomer Age of Aquarius crowd kept the thing going in the late sixties and seventies. Miscabbage should acknowledge us but I don’t think he’s much into history. I got to watch the musical “Hair” in NYC around 1970 which featured this song. I was probably stoned when I attended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjxSCAalsBE
Spit on RB! You nailed it again. Lol. Kids and their Star Wars stories ?
Keep Scientology Wrecking…
(Hopefully not).
That last part about going back to smoking weed hits on a certain point.
Scientologists, with the self-indulgent navel-gazing (and occasional mental rush) of auditing and past lives, and the belief that they’re somehow saving the planet, indeed remind me of the pot smokers I knew who thought that they were somehow bettering themselves by indulging in mind-altering substances, getting high and doing other drugs such as psychedelics. They sat around imagining that they were expanding their consciousness, and preparing themselves to be part of an enlightened elite who would usher in a grand new phase of humanity, with dimensions expanding into outer space – such as migration to other planets (see, for instance, Robert Anton Wilson, and SMILE or space exploration and life extension).
One of the frequent contributors over at ESMB recently wrote that a lot of people they knew who did the OT levels early on, became disillusioned with the lack of meaningful results, gave up on Scientology and went back to doing drugs. That makes sense particularly among the baby boomer demographic of spiritual seekers who were looking for consciousness expansion – and that’s the cohort that Scientology was particularly successful with during the heyday of the late 1960s and early 1970s, and continuing to some extent into the 1980s, who still make up a large part of the diehards.
It also strikes me that in many ways involvement in Scientology looks like an addiction, such as occurs with drugs, and other things as well. It has many of the same signs as gambling addiction, with the focus around money, in particular: continual need to do more, going to extremes including draining assets and even fraud to get more money, sacrificing relationships, etc.; and the stories of children woefully neglected while parents put all their time and resources into Scientology, sound exactly like what the children of drug addicts suffer.
The price of an intensive of auditing is $3000 to $10000, or maybe $1200 on the outside. The price of LSD on the darknet is $3 to $5 per tab. So, being a druggie and tripping every other weekend might cost $10 per month. Being a Scientologist can easily cost $10,000 per month with the same or less satisfactory result.
Either way your brains will be fried….
I did both and I maintain that my brain was merely basted and not fried. I wonder why taking LSD disqualifies someone from joining the sea org. In the early days of LSD research it was thought that people could have unexpected flashbacks from LSD use. Maybe that’s the data Elron was working with when he came up with the Purification Rundown. It would be unseemly and possibly dangerous to have scientologists unexpectedly tripping out in the courserooms or sea org quarters. Talking someone down from a bummer would be disruptive in any event.
Richard, you seem to think the LSD prohibition was a BAD thing? IMO
, it was good in that some poor souls were excluded from that mindfcuk, so they couldn’t be used to lure others in or to keep their families trapped inside.
I found 5 years of the SO to be more than anyone should subject themselves to – – – And that was BEFORE dwarfenführer started squirreling things around.
BTW, Where IS shelly, Davey’s wife? ( I assume there’s no divorce since that’s a public record, easily discovered.[ As long as it’s done in an industrialized country.]
Jere – I agree that the LSD prohibition is a good thing. Several people have commented that they took LSD on purpose when they were teenagers just so they could avoid being recruited. I think Elron ramped up sea org recruiting in the seventies as a priority but most of us were first generation and could brush off sea org recruiting. Incidentally, for a while the military was concerned that LSD users might freak out in combat and some people got draft deferments.
Jere- I should have added “being facetious” to my comment. Being silly or facetious sometimes doesn’t come across right on a blog and I’ve gotten into a couple of scrapes in the past for not indicating my intent – haha
As an experiment I only entered mikerindersblog.org in the website field to see if it goes through
R., I think that, like the prohibition on “other practices,” Hubbard was trying to prevent people from finding out that there were other paths to the same sort of altered-state experiences that Scientology provides, from the “high” of auditing and the feeling of personal growth, to the dissociative and out-of-body experiences of “exteriorization.” He probably also fell for the then-popular belief that you refer to, that LSD users could have “flashbacks,” which fit with the theory that the purif is based on about the body retaining drugs in fatty tissues (not original to him, either).
A seasoned commenter over at ESMB, recently posted that they knew people decades ago who became disillusioned with the OT levels, gave up on Scientology and went back to using drugs. That exemplifies the threat to Scientology, when people know that there are other routes to the same sort of experiences.
Also, I think Hubbard didn’t want people around, who might have understood how he had come to “rise above the bank,” which probably started with his 1938 experience on nitrous oxide (“whippets,” a dental anesthetic Hubbard was probably experimenting with as a recreational drug) that resulted in “Excalibur” (the description of which fits with a classic type of revelatory nitrous oxide high). And then if his son “Nibs” and other sources are correct, that was augmented by later psychedelic drug experimentation as well, along with his copious use of mood-altering drugs such as the stimulant benzedrine that he promoted early on, and the “pinks and grays” that he referred to.
Peacemaker, I agree. Too bad Vance Woodward had to withdraw his book “Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups and Downs of Scientoloholism”. Quite a bit about that idea in that book.
You could make a pretty good case for comparing Scientology to other forms of addiction, as a form of “natural high”. Except that for the most part the drug pushers will leave you alone if you tell them you are no longer using. The Scientologists won’t take no for an answer.
I remember the days when drugs, sex and rock-and-roll were supposed to save the world from itself or something. Probably all young generations think the same thing, but in the days when the baby boom was coming of age it was like a tsunami of teen spirit. And the sign said “long-haired hippy people need not apply”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYsBDmqJfjQ
Hah! “Nirvana – Smells Like Teen Spirit”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
Yes PM i totally get what you are saying about being addicted to scientology. I knew a person (who of course i am disconnected from now) whose eyes would dance when he was talking about scientology stuff. I remember being too afraid to reply back because he would only make me so wrong. He would watch for my response then judge me – talk about being paranoid. Anyway he works only to have the money to pay to go up the bridge. He lives by the scientology rule book and is totally addicted.
This has a stunning similarity to things you might actually hear in an inpatient mental hospital! Two people in a delusional state of folie-a-duex while another is just there due to temporary drug psychosis. Seriously- I think I’ve heard this exact conversation during my psych rotation!
Where is Shelly…..what a horrible thing to say. These people are suffering enough and don’t need the likes of your kind spewing out ignorant and inhumane comments intended to hurt. You are evil.
You should join Scientology. They are hiring evil, stupid, ignorant fools like you who enjoy hurting others and think they are Homo Novus and superior. You would fit right in and rise up the ranks quickly to work abusing people – you horrible person.
Don’t come back here.
Okay today is the day.
Happy Birthday Newcomer. Best wishes for a continuing great life.
THX Mary! Woke up to a bright shiny day with lots of snow on the ground. We had blueberry pancakes with real maple syrup and thanked our lucky stars that our mailbox remains Pee Are free and the call-ins are non existent !
Sounds like you are having lots of fun with downtown CW. Keep up the good work. I hope this is the year our kids will make the change.
Newcomer-
Happy birthday!
That third guy is in phase one of blowing. The other two are approaching the runway but not there yet.
One of the only ways you got “paid” as a Sea Org member was through exalted flattery from Hubbard.
“Scientologist are the upper tenth of the upper 10%…”
“ The Sea Organization is the only group capable of reversing the decline in this universe…”
“ If this universe recovers, it will be because of the Scientologist…”
Blah blah blah…
This technique works for a while, particularly with the younger, newer recruits. Hubbard had hacked into a basic human need for people to feel important, useful, and to be part of something bigger than themselves.
What bigger thing could you be involved with, than fixing the entire universe? And while you’re being opposed by a population implanted to fight against you at every step?
Look, we’re talking the whole fucking universe. Star Wars only happened in a piddly little galaxy far far away.
While there is no doubt that Hubbard turned the volume way up on his flowery praise of his unpaid servants, I think that he truly believed that he was this great spiritual leader, the only one capable of saving the universe. And the sincerity of that belief came through, and actually served him well in his wholesale manipulation of people.
Narcissists. What a bunch of fun guys.
I loved your comment John Doe, but I am not sure LRH thought he was a great spiritual leader. I think he viewed himself as a “carni” and his followers as gullible.
That’s the question I always struggle with. Was LRH a “carni,” who knew he was pulling a con the whole time, or did he really believe in what he was doing? Or did he start out as a knowing conman and eventually come to believe his own line of bullshit?
I tend to think he was always a conman, but I do sometimes wonder.
IMHO his comment about “HOW to make money….START A RELIGION….says it all.
I would tend to agree. But I think it was John Brousseau who said LRH seemed sincere in believing his tech would help people. “Seemed” being the key word, maybe.
I have no doubt that the whole religion angle was motivated by money, and power, but at the beginning did LRH really believe this technology did something useful, or did he know it was snake oil the whole time?
Again, I believe he knew it was a con the entire time, but until he gets back from Target 2 we can’t really ask him.
Moop – He’s already back and living in Washington state, or so “he” says.
https://www.lronhubbardrising.com/
My guess is, that he started out trying to con people. But he had a huge ego. And once people started treating him like a messiah, it went to his head; and he began to think he was really on to something.
His connection to Crowley suggests that he didn’t totally discount things like ‘magic’.
In my opinion, I really think Hubbard was sincerely searching for help with his own inadequencies, but his absolute refusal to really acknowledge and admit the problems kept getting in his way. However, I also think he got addicted to the money and the lifestyle, as well as the power over other people. I think this entitlement probably grew worse as his mental state deteriorated. In the end, I just feel like he was a shell of a person who wasn’t at peace with anything. I see him as a sad and misguided character who was never at complete peace with himself.
I’ve thought about this a lot and conclude that he may have started out as a carni..(He knew exactly what he was doing and knew right from wrong…he perpetrated unlawful acts and directed others to do the same…nothing has changed today)…but at some point on his journey, he lost all sense of reality as he immersed himself in his ramblings and ruminations, drug use, and god complex…. Obviously, he was predisposed for psychosis based on a lifetime of “creating” a self-image far from reality…. The cult provided a platform for that pyschosis to flourish… That’s just my opinion….I would love to do a psych eval on this guy.. Lol..
Robert, I also find Hubbard hard to peg. But I’ve come to see that he had a sort of Darwinian, might-makes-right take on spirituality that needs to be considered.
His claimed “very good friend” Crowley (who himself had connections to the Thule Society that spawned the Nazi Party) for instance desired a return to the “law of the jungle” and revered Nietzsche, who promoted the idea of the Superman (Übermensch) and derided the “slave morality” of traditional religion. If anything, Hubbard aspired to be a different sort of spiritual leader, in a way that defies traditional expectations – including conventions, like equity and compassion, that he thought where just “implants” or other impediments to the expression of pure will and the “theta” spirit.
There’s an interesting psychological biography that has some chilling parallels with Hubbard, as well as touching on the intersection of fascism with spirituality and religiosity:
The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopathic_God
I suppose we will never know fully what he had in mind. As for me, I’ve come to believe that LRH was BOTH a huckster and a self-styled guru.
He really believed he had done something spectacular, something no one else had with his “discoveries” in Dianetics, and he was baffled, hurt, and infuriated that the world did not embrace him as the genius he thought he was.
Narcissist.
But then the selfish greedy, abusive, and manipulative LRH would get a turn at bat.
Both those personalities existed in the man.
The first time I felt I understood LRH (other than when I was an extreme KSW koolaide drinker) was when I accepted what he said about himself: “The ends justified the means” and that whole “black magic” thing he was into in his early years (same age as I was when I got into Scientology). Anyway, he learned you could get ahead by harming others IF it forwards your “will”…. LRH bought this hook line and sinker. Essentially, he got rid of his own conscious with his own “will” which then gave him control over us (me).
I’ve always been fond of the three faces of LRH.
1 – The Guru / Messiah – Remember, he got audited, he wanted various processes done on him even when it would not make him money. This shows he had some belief in it.
2 – Greedy Businessman – His first though on achieving “enlightenment” was to sell it for as much money as possible. It’s like the stereotype of the CEO who finds a revolutionary product and sells it at the highest price possible.
3 – Paranoid tyrant – The dude saw enemies everywhere and was willing to sell out anyone for his own survival.
I think you have expressed this well, Omega. I agree that all of those personalities existed in him. And the last two particularly, in his later years.
As I think about this, I would say there were elements of another personality, one that craved approval and recognition from those he perceived as his equals or those higher socially than he.
And if he were dismissed by those he considered higher socially, it depressed him and enraged him and he would seek revenge.
Those who opposed him that he considered lower than he were targets of abuse or destruction, without any sense of remorse or empathy.
When I was in, I think half the time I was a conspiracy theorist like the guys on the left, then the longer I was in, the more I got to be like the guy on the right. Seriously ?, talk sense or talk about something else at least.
That was the point when I wished I could afford a book to bury my nose in.
Aaah the little luxuries we take for granted out here.
I find it interesting that Scientology has shifted from attracting a rather liberal demographic, to having a more conservative one – so much so that I think it is hard for people who look at the orgs and missions now to understand what it was like in the 1960s and 1970s, and even into the early 1980s. Some of that comes from organizational and demographic shifts over time along with social changes after the 1960s, and some of it is Scientology itself changing people, particularly as Hubbard himself became more conservative in his dotage.
Scientology is also in some ways fundamentally a conspiracy theory, with Xenu and “psychs,” so it’s not surprising that various aspects of such thinking are common among the rank and file.
@peacemaker, I was in in the mid-70’s, we were flower children who were taught that the whole world was a conspiracy theory against scientology.
I have been off-of / away from dope since 77 when I arrived at Dallas Mission which at the time was flourishing; Since that time I have had to contend with being a believer yet having such warped events as Psycho Tropics placed as Qual Sec ♦ At the time of one of the mutinies I told wife I wish to attend for study; The meeting will only draw 20 with only 30 at most then went to clarify there would be no success based on ideas of Mission Holder ♦ Some say some of Hubbard’s exotica is dopey and there is some validity to the claim; Yet I have had to re-formalize my notions to allow for practical that there are no Space Cooties as described by Hubbard since such things just cannot exist in any Inter Galactic Physical Craft; An Idea is not bound by physical features such as Space and Time { MEST in the lingo }
Nicholas, I cant’ make any sense out of your post. Just letting you know; what are you trying to say?
I was on staff at the Dallas Mission, that’s oretty much what it does to your brain;)
@ Victtoria, LOL!
Hilarious, Victoria
We had the same trouble at ESMB with Nick.
??????????????????????????????????????????
???Whole Track Technology???????????????????????????????
There is NO L Ron Hubbard “technology”. Zero, zilch ,nada. You’ve all be conned by a psychopathic science fiction writer. ITS PATHETIC. Mr Rinder, how do people get sucked in by this BS.
‘Where is Shelly’ – what a rude thing to say. You obviously have done no research on how cults work.
As a never in – I can only imagine how humiliating it would be to learn one was conned by a church. This organization – Scientology – uses tricks they play on members to fool them into joining and they lie. it sounds like you have no compassion for those who were tricked, lied to, deceived and betrayed by a “church”.
Why don’t you go somewhere where you would be appreciated like a Scientology Org. They like people like you who are cruel and have no empathy or compassion or don’t do their research before they speak out. How dare you come onto a blog written by a man who was born into the cult and was manipulated and deceived. Mike endured physical and emotional abuse. He is an outstanding human being. Mike Rinder has courage you can only fantasize about ‘Where is Shelly’.
Go play with ISIS or Scientology where they would value someone like you. You have bad manners and no empathy for people who were harmed by an organization that uses smoke and mirrors to trick people into joining.
I am a never in and am so impressed with Mike Rinder, Leah Remini and all of the others who have spoken out. I read and watch everything regarding Scientology and can’t wait until it is dismantled.
I typically don’t post but felt the need to say something to this asshole ‘Where is Shelly’. Ban him please Mike. He has nothing of anything useful to say here.
Fortunately, Mike doesn’t ban people just because they post something that some people find insensitive. The two rebukes of “Where is Shelly” posted here are far nastier than anything s/he wrote.
Agreed, Ms. Q. Methinks the troll doth protest too much.
Aqua – why would I support you all and be considered a troll?
I thought the comment about “How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit” was rude and I still do.
I don’t quite understand where you are coming from and truly would like to hear you out. I respect you and enjoy your posts.
Just what makes me a troll when I am defending ex cult members?
You need to read your own comment where you said a lot more than “How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit”. Frankly, the rants of the never-ins who have had no experience with scientology (compared with the many here who were in for decades) know little or nothing about our experiences yet continue with a diatribe of “How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit” which is boring at best.
Even your response to Aqua, “I don’t quite understand where you are coming from and truly would like to hear you out. I respect you and enjoy your posts.” Is kiss-ass.
And finally, “Ban him please Mike. He has nothing of anything useful to say here.” Really? And you called him an asshole?
You have no manners.
Peabody – I did not say ““How do you people get sucked in by this bullshit” – The jerk ‘Where is Shelly’ said that.
Read the posts more carefully.
I was talking to Aqua – not you. I do enjoy his/her posts and respect what he/she has to say. I don’t care what you think about that and did not ask your opinion. You seem very hateful.
Your post is inappropriate. You are very reactive and you are pointing that reaction at the wrong target. Point it to Scientology. I did nothing to harm you.
I am on ex Scientologist’s side and have compassion for those that got taken in and harmed by the cult
As they say in Scientology – Pick the right target and write to the IRS to have Scientology’s tax exemption taken away. That would be more productive than spewing out your hateful confusion attacking a supporter here on Mike’s Blog over some asshole who is insulting Scientologists who got tangled up with the cult.
Thanks for asking me this, Scientology Watcher.
I assumed there was a troll on the blog because both “Scientology Watcher” and “Aftermath Fan”‘s comments were very similar in content and very similar in their venomous tone in expressing disagreement with Where Is Shelly’s comment. Both of these comments under different names went right for the jugular blasting Where Is Shelly as a horrible person and calling him/her to be banned from the blog. I assumed that there was one person behind both names. I didn’t give it much thought, frankly. Perhaps these were bad assumptions on my part. Perhaps and the similarity in the content of the remarks as well as the similarity in the context are merely coincidental. Perhaps I jumped to conclusions based on my own spontaneous assumptions and you’re not a troll at all. If that’s the case, I apologize to you.
Thanks Aqua – thank you for responding and clarifying. I thought the ‘Where is Shelly’ poster was rude and inconsiderate and felt the need to say something. There were others who said stuff about the inappropriateness of his/her post as well and others who supported my post. Then there was Anna J and Peabody. It is weird to think I am David Miscavige or a troll. Makes no sense. Regardless, I am on your side and always will be. I guess that makes me an SP. lol
I think that commenter was quite rightly spot on there ya fake Scientology Watcher. My guess is you’re really a drunk David MisCavige playing the role of a fake outraged keyboard warrior.
Fake Anna J – What’s the matter OSA – stats down this week?
Here here….thumb’s UP, you got it correct Watcher, agree with you 100%……..
You cannot argue with a FOOL…they always think they are correct…..it will only bring you down to their level….let’s just ignore FOOLS & TROLLS…
Despite certain posts, “they” have a right to their own opinion, we just don’t have to respond to them.
Ballet Lady – great advice and so
True.
Don’t pay the trolls any attention SW
RB – you nailed it again!
“As a never in – I could only imagine how humiliating it would be to learn one was conned by a church”.
Humiliating – true. But then, its humiliating to learn that one has been conned by anybody.
But worse than humiliation is the shock and pain of having trusted, and then been betrayed. Betrayal after trust.
I have some Jewish friends who are fond of the following expression: “Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME.”
That pretty much sums up our attitude toward Co$ – we on this blog, who were once in the Church of Scientology.
We trusted, we believed that there was goodness, good intentions.
And we got shafted. Some FAR worse than others, but we all got shafted. We all experienced betrayal after trust. We all realized we made a big mistake, trusting this organization. And we got out. They don’t have us to be used and conned anymore, so they concentrate on their remaining, compliant victims.
Point being, yes, we trusted the wrong people and were conned for doing so. But they’re not conning us anymore.
This is a CHURCH. They’re there to HELP people – they say. Ok, we believed them. We were wrong. We got the shaft.
But we learned and got out. Sadder, poorer and wiser, we got out.
We can hold our heads up now. We learned.
On the other hand, for a CHURCH to cloak itself in the guise of help yet behave like con artists, and grifters, for a church to use, exploit and ruin people, to cause immense pain and suffering to people all under the guise of helping them…to my mind, the lasting shame and humiliation, the utter disgrace of this should be – and IS – – theirs. Wholly theirs.
Aqua,
Well said
I think that’s a very insensitive comment to make, to be completely honest with you. We are all susceptible to psychological manipulation, and for someone to believe that they’re immune to being manipulated, is ignorant, arrogant, and extremely dangerous.
The best con artists in the world seek out people who have convinced themselves they could “never be duped”. Those are the easiest “marks” for them. They want people who have that false sense of security, because those are the ones who let their guard down because they foolishly believe “it could never happen to me”. Skepticism can be vitally important for our own protection, as well as a healthy dose of humility, so that we may recognize that we all have vulnerabilities that can be exploited by those who have nefarious intentions.
Now, will any of us never-ins who frequent this website & others, watch Aftermath, etc. ever “fall for Scientology”? No, probably not. However, you have former members who have spoken out about the dangers of associating with this organization to thank for that. As for other “cons” out in the world that may not have been as exposed to us as Scientology has been? I would be extremely careful of believing that you’d “never fall for any BS”. You’re practically handing con men the best tool they can use against you (and your good intentions).
Just something to consider.
Great comment Mick Roberts.
Yes, Mick. Eloquently stated and 100% true.
Where is Shelly,
I may be able to help you understand a little about cults, but is generally easier to grasp if you do your own research. There are many, many, many ways that cults work to draw people in. Some look for vulnerabilities, some promise riches or power, some eternal salvation. There is basically a cult out there for everyone if you are unlucky enough to cross paths with it. It does not denote a weakness or any type of mental deficiency- there are plenty of rich powerful people in cults (just look at Tom Cruise). The fallacy of thinking someone immediately jumped up and said “I beleive is everything you’re saying Mr. Hubbard” isn’t likely to be how most people were brought in. This cult shows a bright, attractive front and “goal” at first- trying to do good for mankind and helping others. That isn’t what the underlying cult is, but it’s what they put forth. Many adherents were either born into it, or joined well before the internet allowed for a quick goggle-check. This is true about many cults. Plus, once you are in there is a gradual tightening of the reins and a separation from others who are not in. That’s where the secrecy comes in. It is easy to isolate people and make them reliant on the cult.
Like I said- every cult is different, and hopefully you never cross paths with one that appeals to your fundamental beliefs. People who manage to disengage from cults at the expense of all that they know and in the face of personal rejection are to be greatly admired. Even if something fails to make sense to an “outsider”, it should be looked at as if you had to divorce yourself from all of your most personal beliefs and truths. I hope this helps to understand how cults pull in people.
Once again- I miss the chance to edit and correct typos!! I’m sorry for any misspellings and/or grammatical errors!
All true, and in addition, forget cults, ordinary people get conned one way or another all the time. There are all kinds of scams out there that have nothing to do with religion. People are vulnerable to them and fall for them and get ripped off for all kinds of admirable and not so admirable reasons.
This may be just my own opinion but I think most people got involved with Scientology because they themselves needed help AND had a strong desire to help others too. I think with Scientology, the “hook” initially is “help”, desire to help and be helped, and then, after a while, once their family and friends were in, or possibly their incomes were dependent upon other Scientologists, once they’d invested enough time, effort and money in the cult, what keeps them in are the double threats of Fair Game and Disconnection.
Aqua,
The hook of helping people is really strong, and appeals to many people- I would be vulnerable to that as well. That and the self help/improve your life spiel are the bright, shiny baubles that are used to lure the unsuspecting into Scientology. It is so easy to see the appeal to everyone who is still in, but it’s also easy (from the outside looking in) to bypass this aspect and look at the insanity of ‘xenu’ and other wacky parts. It’s also not hard to see the bait and switch where parisoners are lured into giving revenue to the organization. I think that many people (like where’s Shelly) may not see the beginning of the chain that keeps people bound to the cult- it’s like the Manson family or People’s temple, Waco, heavens gate etc.- people see the end results, but don’t look at how it escalated from something appealing into something horrible. People wouldn’t join if they knew where it would ultimately lead- you can’t condem anyone for joining until you look at what they actually joined- not where their journey ended. I’m not saying that some people don’t deserve to be condemned if they deliberately join a hate group/cult, but that’s a whole other type of cult that has no bearing on the above.
The best thing to do is to try to educate people who don’t have knowledge of how cults work or how they pull in members.
If “how do people get sucked in?” is a real question, the answer is to google cults, comma, how to people get sucked in.
Or you could go to any website pro or con on religions like the Latter Day Saints, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Westwood Baptist, or any of a number present and past – Jones Temple, Waco, Children of God…
The answer to your question is simple: There but for the grace of god, or luck, go I.
Ammo, love your last sentence! Exactly.
OK, I admit it. I’m working for the Dark Side. I saw Tiny Boots hook his wrist up to that #12 copper ground wire last night. He looked a little pale and drunk on hooch.
To: Bognition
From: David ” Tiny Boots” Miscavige COB RTC
Re: not spilling the beans
YOU WEREN’T SUPPOSED TO REVEAL THAT!
ML
Dave
Thanks RB.
Funny,smoke weed instead of being a scientolgist so you make more sense.
In Milton’s Paradise Lost, Lucifer loses his “OT” powers after the battle in heaven.
“Reserved him[Satan] to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witnessed huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and steadfast hate.”
Lucifer was “the light bearer” prior to the battle. After the battle, he is seriously limited in
“OT” range. He has no “OT” powers. His name is changed to Satan which Milton defines as “enemy” or “the enemy”. In Scientology, Hubbard was trying to develop “OT” powers from a base of hate similar to Satan. Creative processing could never work.
“
Hee Hee!
So. According to the very first OTVIII details (before the Great Dumbing Down), el Ron was trying to get his powerz back? I could see the sense in his not telling anyone that he’d been humiliated in battle in heaven!
ROFL
I like your style
L Ron was indeed trying to get his powers back in the original OT VIII. Why did Hubbard never, ever display any OT powers? Well, all of the people around Blavatsky saw no OT powers except for Colonel Olcott. In all of his writings he only makes one exception. He said that he foiled Blavatsky as much as possible, but she could produce a faint knocking sound. He tested her on all OT powers and he could not explain the faint knock. There are stories about Hubbard but none verified.
Olcott was the co-founder of the Theosophical Society along with Blatavsky, so I doubt that he was the most rigorous skeptic. Producing knocking is an old medium’s trick, and I’d wager that for instance he didn’t adequately control for the possiblity that she had some device hidden underneath a large old Victorian dress – maybe even in a whalebone corset!
The reports of possible or supposed OT phenomenon regarding Hubbard that I’ve come across, are all of people who were alone with Hubbard in a room. And they sound to me like classic stage hypnotist’s tricks – and Hubbard was reported by old friends to be able to pull off some fairly impressive hypnotic and post-hypnotic suggestion effects. Ken Urquhart, for instance, reverently recounts experiencing a mysterious pinch while Hubbard sat sitting at a desk grinning at him, which I suspect was just a variation on the standard hypnotist trick demonstrated here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrsPbmPrOSc
I wish we knew more about Hubbard’s period as a “swami” in Hollywood. I also suspect he probably picked people to be around him, who were susceptible hypnotic subjects – which has some pretty sinister implications when it comes to those like the messengers, and the things they claim to have no memory of Hubbard doing.
PeaceMaker – The hypnotist trick was funny even though unpleasant for the poor woman. Oddly enough it gives SOME credence to Elron’s theory about the reactive mind, subconscious triggers causing irrational reactions. I’m NOT saying everyone has a Reactive Mind which needs to be erased. laughter