RB nails it again. I am always pleasantly amazed at his humor along with his accurate targeting of the cognitive dissonance that exists within the group…especially the young ones. LOL I have read a lot “spiritual” books since I left and he definitely takes some of the juicy bits like reincarnation, spirit being separate from body, overcoming body issues with spiritual realizations, psychology of mind over matter, etc. There is some truth in all of it for everybody, but not for everybody…every single time like he said. When that happens its a control mechanism as you can see in the above cartoon. When I read Nathan Rich’s book you can see that as a very young child scn did not appeal to him just out of his own instinct. There is no one size fits all but they do try to make it so.
“So, do you think they’re gonna make him start his auditing from the beginning of the Grade chart again when he comes back.
A: At the BEGINNING, of course, EVEN if their past-life folders can be dug up. There’s more money in it… Remember, “Certainty is the number of times through.” [even when it takes heavy inval and eval to get the mark to BELIEVE he needs to do it again.]
“I wonder why we never get to meet any of the guys who have already Dropped the Body and came back. They’re only allowed a 21 year Leave Of Absence from Post after they’ve Drop the Body.”
A: because NONE have returned. EVER! Not even TUBBY has returned,and he’s got about a BILLION reasons to make his presence known.
Hmmm.. It sure seems like there’s a lot of people who’ve failed to report back to work.”
A: YUP! and now that scientology has so thoroughly been shown as the fraud it is, don’t expect the first returnee in the lifetime of the Internet.
Long runway con, no liftoff, no OTs even if the staff do get their “Clear” quackery pseudo-therapy and even if they do all the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 high volume Xenu’s “body-thetans” exorcism in full, they still won’t become “OT” supersouls.
FPjr said:
“That piece of blue sky keeps selling .
P. T. Barnum is credited with “There’s a sucker born every minute.””
As can easily be seen, it is NOT selling. The saying was ascribed to PT, but that turns out to be untrue. In truth, he tried to give full measure for the marks’ money, as satisfied customers keep returning. Hubbard never did figure that out and DELIVER on any of his promises… OR amend the promises to what he could and did deliver.
People have to learn for t themselves, trying to tell a dedicated cult member that what they a re doing or hoping to achieve is useless , ridiculous, dangerous and in the end cost them dearly is useless.
If Hubbard said “drink poison and move on to the next level”, they would do it .
It is sad.
They need to pay taxes!
You can’t save someone who does NOT want to be saved, you can ONLY save yourself
Some girls that left FLDS went right back…they could not deal with the separation from the ONLY life they’ve ever lived. As with COS & Amish & some strict Conservative Baptist….they will shun you & forbid your family having contact with you. You are kept away from everything & anyone you’ve ever known.
FEAR is the greatest motivator to stay IN where you feel comfortable…where you know how to talk the talk and walk the walk, despite not having enough food or money. Critical Thinking is never achieved because you are forbidden to view anything outside the world of COS or any other cult like suppressive religion.
Going out to face life in a new world that you know little to nothing about, where you possibly have no family members or friends to feel safe with, no housing, no food, no utilities, no clothing, no education, no job, no money….that would scare the crap out of anyone, including myself.
I’ve long wondered if believers would start to question why they have been lead to sacrifice their interests in this life, for the promise of coming back in “better condition” and thus supposedly saving their “eternity,” when this far into the history of Scientology, no one has yet actually come back. It may be that it will take a few more decades still before the failure of that prophecy becomes really glaring – or it may just be that the remaining true believers are so indoctrinated in thought-stopping, and so incapable of critical thought, that they are unable to ever put 2 and 2 together like that. Groups like the JWs get away with papering over previous failures of prophecy because younger members are kept unaware of them, but Hubbard brashly made specific promises in the “scripture” that still gets studied, that were supposed to be scientific, even testable, so Scientology’s failures are all the more obvious.
I pointed out to “Foolproof” recently, that this is one of the things that proves, and ensures, Scientology’s continued failure and demise – the CofS, and the independents as well. They’re not even getting old past-life “clears” and “OTs” coming back, the way that Hubbard promised it would work. I’m sure that true believers of his ilk have some justification for why neither the CofS nor the indies can attract anyone anymore, I’m guessing blamed on something like supposed suppression by the eons-old “psych” conspiracy, but the failure of even past-life members to come back to the fold as explicitly predicted, is an epic fail, as the saying goes.
Peacemaker,
I’ve seen some posts that Hubbard supposedly took a detour to another planet to “clear” that one or to work on the next “levels” or whatnot. There’s always an excuse, and in a cult that has its basis in the “space opera” devised by Hubbard, excuses abound.
Some cults implode when the “apocalypse” doesn’t manifest, or the teachings have a specific time frame that doesn’t come to pass. That’s usually when there is a mass casualty event as the “leader” can’t bear to lose the faithful. Scientology is unique in its ability to rewrite history. It’s Miscavages lack of creativity that is likely to end things. He can’t write the next chapter effectively and has no more carrots to dangle. His only recourse is to continually repackage Hubbard’s ramblings. The members still in will likely start to realize that once they get to OTVIII there’s nothing left. That’s probably why he resists people gaining that level. If he can keep the carrot dangling forever, then no one will look around and say “that’s all? I sacrificed my life for THIS??”
Maybe more and more people will see the happiness that Mike and the others have attained and ask “why am I doing this?”
Kat, Hubbard originally said that he would come back as a political leader – so he set up an excuse for not showing up at an org. I’d say that Scientology is sort of in between the examples you cite: The promise of coming back again is not quite as concrete as the groups that set a specific, failed, apocalyptic date, and yet Miscavige can’t paper over such a fundamental doctrine, and widely held expectation, either.
The issue with the levels may be more of a problem. They actually had people paying in advance for OT IX and X 30 years ago when the initial big surge of members went through OT VIII, though that fiasco is slowly fading, along with the members taken in by it – many of who seem to have became disillusioned after a few years after OT VIII turned out not to be so life transforming, anyway. But Miscavige has continued to dangle the carrot of those levels, and his inability to delivery probably is one of the things slowly eating away at Scientology’s ability to hold on to its membership, even if it does not precipitate a crisis. He can try to roll out some banal, cobbled-together version of OT IX and X – there’s already been some pretty good speculation, about specific old Hubbard material he could try to recycle – but that has its own risks if it falls flat or goes badly (the rollout of the LOC and KTL courses of the 1990s resulted in a lot of people leaving, ironically because it was successful in getting them to re-prioritize their lives, but on their own terms).
My guess is that Miscavige has a fair chance of being able to use his current bag of tricks to hold the CofS together for the rest of his expectable lifespan; even a 5% annual rate of decline, doesn’t quite cut the membership in half every decade. But whoever came after him, would inherit an intractable mess teetering on the edge of disaster – and would probably quickly turn around and scapegoat Miscavige, in typical Scientology fashion. And then there are the possibilities of unexpected events, including just a hard blow from losing a lot of diehard baby boomer members and staff.
Kat said:”…. Some cults implode when the “apocalypse” doesn’t manifest, or the teachings have a specific time frame that doesn’t come to pass.”
Hubbard was a past master of giving excuses why something didn’t turn out as he predicted, always enforcing somehow the idea that HE was faultless and that SOMEONE ELSE was the reason. Sadly, too few still in can recognize the truth that the “TECH”(techniques) never did perform as promoted and that it only worked as Hubbard INTENDED — to trap the gullible as his slaves, the amassing of which somehow made him “stronger”. Sad little man…. AND Mustsavage is even sadder and littler.
scientology* IS imploding; slower than many of us would like, but it has met its Waterloo in the Internet and the information Age.
*I refuse to capitalize scientology even when not doing so sticks out grammatically like a sore thumb. The cult deserves no respect, not even that meaningless bit of recognition.
Organized religions have been selling their various versions of “put up with misery/poverty/injustice/discomfort, etc. in this life and you’ll be saved and happy and at peace eternally ever after” for thousands of years, and for just as many thousands of years, people have been buying it.
This policy appeals to that desire in each of us to help, to be noble and unselfish.
The Church of Scientology has its own version of the ages old, “suffer now, be rewarded later” policy which Miscavige abuses to enrich himself in his various scams.
People need to be noble. Have you noticed?
Or, if not to BE noble, to at least FEEL that way.
This is a generalization but I find it workable:
No matter what dumb/ selfish/ unhelpful/destructive or self-destructive acts people might be engaging in, or might have perpetrated, they’ll attribute noble, UNselfish, compassionate reasons for doing or having done them.
The people who run organized religions know this and can manipulate and exploit their believers accordingly if they’re so inclined.
Off Topic but still relevant. The Mike Rinder bobble head went on sale Tuesday. I ordered one on Tuesday. I live in Ohio. It arrived today! Not to sound kinky but, I think I’m in love!
According to Buddhist teachings too, we come back.
But the chances are high that we come back as animals.
Why? Because there are more spirits in need of a body than there are human bodies available.
That is like a lottery. With the winning ticket we get a human body, otherwise we are to be reborn as animals, because there are also billions of billions of dead animals in quest of a new body.
According to Buddhism, there are methods to improve our chances to come back as human beings. In short:
– Be ethical
– Be generous
– Make vows to be reborn as a human being
– At the time of death, avoid negative emotions such as anger, attachment, etc.
As Hubbard was dominated by anger and craving, according to Buddhist teachings, the chances are high that he was reborn as an animal, or even worse.
Ummm …. would it be possible to hire a plane and drop leaflets on some locations where S.O. members are bound to find them? We could drop the business cards from the plane and/or flyers telling people some truths they may not believe.
Or we could make up some stories to tell them. After all, if THE SCAM can brainwash them by telling them all kinds of insane lies, maybe we could think of some things to tell them that would hasten their attempt to start a mutiny and make THE MONSTER walk the plank?
Pls realize this is mostly just a joke but I wonder if it just might be possible to drop some leaflets that could have a positive result? Or is this just another pipe dream?
Buddhists from the greater vehicle have the purpose to come back in order to help suffering beings. The main purpose is to help, but for this they have to come back.
Buddhists from the lesser vehicle have a goal of personal liberation. When they reach that goal, they are free from automatic reincarnations and they can choose to come back or not.
According to Tibetan Masters, the human form is the best in order to work on the spiritual level, which is not possible as animals or deities. Tibetan Buddhists make vows in order to be reborn as human beings, so that they can continue their practice until they reach the state of Buddha.
We humans seem to have an endless supply of belief systems available to our consciousness. The Cult of El Con and Davey the Dildo is just a more recent iteration …….. IMHO!
Do we need them and if so, for what purpose? Seems like being ethical and generous could be rewards enough to live a good life. As soon as we need to do them so that we can …..(end up in heaven, come back as a person, achieve nirvana, etc.) it becomes a potential for angst.
Man has used belief systems to control his fellow man for thousands of years. So how has it worked out for us?
Yo Dave,
Whazit gonna be big boy? Ya gonna go for a 21 year LOA or just bail for Target Too and join up with the numero uno biggest being this side of Arslykus?
Ya know, if You could get Tom to hook up with a thirties something gal, maybe you could con them into hatching a new body for you and you could live in the new penthouse in downtown murkywater. You would have to give up some lavish digs and maybe yer tanning bed but …………….. it might just be the best ticket out of a crappy situation. Just sayin Dave.
“Man has used belief systems to control his fellow man for thousands of years. So how has that worked out for us.”
Bingo.
Answer: Not well.
As justification for war self-abnegation, slavery – man’s inhumanity to man – on and on – make them noble for complying.
God wants it. Jesus wants it. Allah will be pleased Zeus and Athena conferred and sent an oracle. The Pharoah…etc., etc., you’ll be HIGHLY rewarded in the afterlife…you’re safeguarding your eterniity.
Take your pick of endless reasons given as to how and why its ALWAYS the noble thing to do, the right thing to do for people to be either perpetrators of inhumanity, or its victims.
Without a noble reason, how can men be made to leave their homes and fight strange people in strange lands where the likelihood is they’ll get killed or maimed? Work their entire lives without pay; agree that their lives and happiness are less valuable than the lives and happiness of others?
Give them a grand, noble, beautiful, spiritual, godly reason, that’s how.
Make it a matter of their principles, their honor, and what the Higher Power wants for them, their ultimate reward, and, last but not least, their eternal salvation.
Or, according the Akashic Record teaching of Western esotericism, there is a collective human memory that everyone can access. It’s arguably a better theory than individual reincarnation, as it would explain why multiple people claim to have recollections of the lives of the same famous historical figures – assuming those aren’t all just false memory phenomenon, essentially the result of wishful thinking.
Hubbard, being extremely egoistic, stuck to the model that allowed him to claim the glory of having been illustrious and important figures in past incarnations, in spite of the long-known problems with that theory, such as all the people claiming to have been Jesus or Cleopatra in their past lives, and so on. As a student of esotericism and the occult, he would almost certainly have been familiar with the Akashic Record, but apparently found it unsatisfactory.
I do appreciate the Buddhist model, I just wanted to point out another one closer to home.
At last count there were 170 billion galaxies in the observable universe so coming back as a human being is earth centric.
I think Elron said that once in awhile someone takes a relaxing break for a lifetime as horse or something. I think he was joking on that.
Spacetime in the Astral Plane may be different than spacetime on earth. Hubbard should have figured that out before he departed with 21 earth years as the official LOA for sea orgers. This could be the cause of much confusion and questions about his whereabouts.
Much of astronomy is currently focused on finding earth like planets. Obviously we (humans) would like to know if there is the possibility of other planets which could support beings with two chamber brains and human like thinking.
Richard,
But Hubbard knew everything about space and time so HOW could he make a mistake like that??!!?? That goes against everything he claimed. He didn’t say 21 space years, or 21 Planet X years, so he must have been referencing Earth years. So he’s definitely AWOL- send the ships out to grab his sorry deserting ass!
I always thought it was so funny that he claimed to know all about space and time and yet ……. he never knew that time wsa not the same everywhere.
Did you konw that when you ask the question, “What time is it?” There is no single answer. Did you know that we can always make up an answer that begins something like this: The time right now in the third quadrant may be 3:10 AM from this quadrant until the next quadrant but it will be 4:25 in the next quadrant until the sun sets in that quadrant until the sun goes down and we can then the meaning of the matter from that quadrant … oh shit, baby. Oh shit! What can we do? And what should we do? I get the feeling we are royally screwed and tattooed before the sun sets in our quadrant tomorrow. Feeling screwed now? You should be feeling screwed because unless you know better, you will simply be denied the knowledge required to adjust the time to make the time come out OK and until then, your time and my time will always remain different. So, therefore it can be said we are all of us screwed, blue and tatooed. Oy Vey! We are all of us in deep and we don’t know any way to get out. What can we do about that? Oh my gosh! Screwed, Blue and Tatooed. This ain’t no joke. Every single one of us is screwed. There is just no escape. No Way to get out. What to do? What to do?
LOL! Providing I could guarantee myself a good owner, I’d be ok with coming back as a dog or a cat. If I’d have to be an animal next lifetime the ideal scene would be coming back as a kitty or a puppy owned by…me. Or a bird. But not in a cage. An eagle, maybe. An eagle would be fun. Or a tropical bird, in a rain forest.
As I understand it Objectivism says that by totally rejecting reliance on any “higher authority” up to and including gods, goddesses and God one might get to an explosion and blending of analytical and creative insights and activity, sort of an Oh Tee state.
On the other hand from Encyclopedia Dramatica:
[A Randroid is a follower of Objectivism, a phallocentric religion designed to turn basement dwellers into self-righteous zealots devoted to the worship of a dead soviet hag. It is the most rational belief system in human history.
Randroids have major hard-ons for big business even though most of them, including Rand herself, simply isn’t working hard enough.]
……………………………………………………………….
laughter – I really don’t have any firm opinion, just a bit of study of “Neo Tech” which is a squirrel version of Objectivism which I found rather interesting.
When I was in college, there were groups who were devoted to Rand, but they didn’t refer to themselves as “randroids”. I guess it makes sense in a rather crazy way.
In his book “The Neo-Tech Discovery” the author Frank R Wallace describes various people currently and throughout history as cheaters or “neocheaters” as he describes them. These are people who produce nothing of value but extract wealth from value producers through political power or getting people to believe in mystical beliefs.
In a section of the book called “Understanding the Philosophical Origins of Power” he describes Plato and Aristotle.
(shortened and paraphrased) [Plato provides the rationalization for all laziness, dishonesty, and value destruction……………Plato assigns virtue to sacrificing individual rights and needs to any arbitrary higher authority, higher power, or external authority…thus Plato is the philosophical father of mysticism and neocheating.
Aristotle says the well being of society is enhanced to the extent that individuals are free to produce objective values for themselves and others. …….By nature, Aristotle nourishes all value producers. Thus Aristotle is the philosophical father of business and Neo-Tech.]
………………………………………
Wallace veers off into into saying, similar to Hubbard, that advanced “Big Beings” create universe(s) so he’s trashed by strict Ayn Rand Objectivists even though many of his viewpoints mirror Objectivism. Most people would agree that Hubbard was “a bit” of a neocheater.
[Cleverly manipulative writers such as Fromm and deceptively manipulative organizations or “modern” churches such as Ron Hubbard’s Church of Scientology can be even more dangerous and harmful than the overt, old-time religion or the neurotic, televangelists’ born again approaches.
Many people are drawn into the chameleon-like forms of existentialism through an assortment of highly publicized illusionary benefits designed to indulge almost anyone’s emotions to escape reality. Touted benefits include discovering real truth, peace of mind, happiness, new freedoms, self awareness, increased sensitivity, discovery of one’s true self and a wide variety of health and nutritional benefits. Other benefits touted by groups such as Scientologists include various mystical routes to freedom through self awareness via clearing hang-ups or engrams.]
………………………………
Hey – I figured I could gain new self awareness with Scientology. What’s wrong with that? Wallace is a buzzkill. ………………… (joke)
Cannot imagine a life trapped and wasted inside this cult. This week’s regraded being illustrates rather poignantly the plight of these victims. It’s all just so surreal. And rather sad actually. Mr. Rinder when is your tell all scientology book coming out?
Since Hubbard himself invented the Sea Org motto “We Come Back” it would be a great question to ask any Sea Org member. Where is he? Why is he so late? Of course Sea Org members are kept separate from the general public with buses so Suppressive Persons can’t ask questions like that. If a Scientology public asks, they can quickly be dragged into ethics.
I thought he had already come back as an overweight 30 year old still living in his moms basement and delivering pizza to buy junk food and video games. And trolling people on the internet. Am I wrong??
Glenn:”Wonder why they don’t ask where Hubbard is? He has definitely been gone more than the 21 year leave of absence members are granted.”
Haven’t you learnt yet? Tubby didn’t have to pay attention to no laws; not even the rules HE thunked up. As has been said many times before, he was uncharacteristically remiss in passing on his hat(s) before he “did the bunk”. He didn’t SAY he was going to do this or that, didn’t say he’d be back ever. Maybe all of his overts caught up with him and he can’t return to Teegeeack. Maybe he’s returned to Arslycus to finish that last load of polishing.
Yup, LRH and Pedrito are taking turns on that third row of bricks at Arslycus. Unfortunately they have to share just the one old brush since the CSW wasn’t approved.
I know of whom you speak and am inclined to think he truly is Blubbard returned. Why, you might ask. Because the dude has a big criminal record and has done prison time. Blubbard said he would return as a politician, which in my book are essentially criminals who have not been caught.
Yeah OK, I admit it, that was me… had ya going for a while though didn’t it? I like sneaking around with a cardboard face held on with string of different people. Problem with impersonating Hubbard was that so many people threw shit at me, literally! Like baboons they were.
Well there ought to be a torrent of em soon since the old guard has been dropping like flies for the past 21+ years.
My son was born in 87 and my ex had high hopes the old El Con had jumped in for a ride. lookin back, if I had known then what I know now things would have gone much differently.
But then again, things would not have turned out like they have and although the process of extricating myself was very painful, it is done and I would not change it. I really doubt that I would have made the difficult choices had not the actions of the cult members been so horrifically bad that I would not have believed it possible …… and I was shocked back into reality.
Yo Dave,
Don’t forget Ohh Tea Niner and Tenor. Ate really was ‘truth revealed’ for me. Yer next action will be total freedom from the cult and I’d say yer doing a great job of group auditing on that one. Keep up the good work!
RB, as usual you have your finger on the pulse of real issues that plague SO members.
From an outsiders point of view those staff depicted are insanely brainwashed.
Yeah, COB will get a new job. At Target, in the stockroom, in Aimes, Iowa, where he will steal his own birthday presents. Then he’ll go home to his RV at night, where he will dress up as Little Bo Peep and listen to vintage Joy Villa music…..
It’s SO true — The very last people to go up the Bridge to total subjugation are the staff who are delivering the services AND those with any remaining reasoning ability are likely to get depressed by all that is stacked against their advancing OR being paid anything meaningful.
Yeah, RIGHT!!! Has never happened and NEVER will. Just more bullshit, hype and carrots on sticks. Course who knows, with constantly dwindling numbers of public maybe the only ones left to “service” are staff……… Makes me think maybe I should return; HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!!
RB nails it again. I am always pleasantly amazed at his humor along with his accurate targeting of the cognitive dissonance that exists within the group…especially the young ones. LOL I have read a lot “spiritual” books since I left and he definitely takes some of the juicy bits like reincarnation, spirit being separate from body, overcoming body issues with spiritual realizations, psychology of mind over matter, etc. There is some truth in all of it for everybody, but not for everybody…every single time like he said. When that happens its a control mechanism as you can see in the above cartoon. When I read Nathan Rich’s book you can see that as a very young child scn did not appeal to him just out of his own instinct. There is no one size fits all but they do try to make it so.
“So, do you think they’re gonna make him start his auditing from the beginning of the Grade chart again when he comes back.
A: At the BEGINNING, of course, EVEN if their past-life folders can be dug up. There’s more money in it… Remember, “Certainty is the number of times through.” [even when it takes heavy inval and eval to get the mark to BELIEVE he needs to do it again.]
“I wonder why we never get to meet any of the guys who have already Dropped the Body and came back. They’re only allowed a 21 year Leave Of Absence from Post after they’ve Drop the Body.”
A: because NONE have returned. EVER! Not even TUBBY has returned,and he’s got about a BILLION reasons to make his presence known.
Hmmm.. It sure seems like there’s a lot of people who’ve failed to report back to work.”
A: YUP! and now that scientology has so thoroughly been shown as the fraud it is, don’t expect the first returnee in the lifetime of the Internet.
That piece of blue sky keeps selling .
P. T. Barnum is credited with “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
I’ve had my stupid moments too so I am just remarking here about the human experience.
Long runway con, no liftoff, no OTs even if the staff do get their “Clear” quackery pseudo-therapy and even if they do all the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 high volume Xenu’s “body-thetans” exorcism in full, they still won’t become “OT” supersouls.
Long runway con, no liftoff for any of them.
Chuck:”Long runway con, no liftoff for any of them.”
Long runway con, no liftoff, *CRASH*! for all of them, sooner or later.
FPjr said:
“That piece of blue sky keeps selling .
P. T. Barnum is credited with “There’s a sucker born every minute.””
As can easily be seen, it is NOT selling. The saying was ascribed to PT, but that turns out to be untrue. In truth, he tried to give full measure for the marks’ money, as satisfied customers keep returning. Hubbard never did figure that out and DELIVER on any of his promises… OR amend the promises to what he could and did deliver.
This is just pathetic.
People have to learn for t themselves, trying to tell a dedicated cult member that what they a re doing or hoping to achieve is useless , ridiculous, dangerous and in the end cost them dearly is useless.
If Hubbard said “drink poison and move on to the next level”, they would do it .
It is sad.
They need to pay taxes!
You can’t save someone who does NOT want to be saved, you can ONLY save yourself
Some girls that left FLDS went right back…they could not deal with the separation from the ONLY life they’ve ever lived. As with COS & Amish & some strict Conservative Baptist….they will shun you & forbid your family having contact with you. You are kept away from everything & anyone you’ve ever known.
FEAR is the greatest motivator to stay IN where you feel comfortable…where you know how to talk the talk and walk the walk, despite not having enough food or money. Critical Thinking is never achieved because you are forbidden to view anything outside the world of COS or any other cult like suppressive religion.
Going out to face life in a new world that you know little to nothing about, where you possibly have no family members or friends to feel safe with, no housing, no food, no utilities, no clothing, no education, no job, no money….that would scare the crap out of anyone, including myself.
I’ve long wondered if believers would start to question why they have been lead to sacrifice their interests in this life, for the promise of coming back in “better condition” and thus supposedly saving their “eternity,” when this far into the history of Scientology, no one has yet actually come back. It may be that it will take a few more decades still before the failure of that prophecy becomes really glaring – or it may just be that the remaining true believers are so indoctrinated in thought-stopping, and so incapable of critical thought, that they are unable to ever put 2 and 2 together like that. Groups like the JWs get away with papering over previous failures of prophecy because younger members are kept unaware of them, but Hubbard brashly made specific promises in the “scripture” that still gets studied, that were supposed to be scientific, even testable, so Scientology’s failures are all the more obvious.
I pointed out to “Foolproof” recently, that this is one of the things that proves, and ensures, Scientology’s continued failure and demise – the CofS, and the independents as well. They’re not even getting old past-life “clears” and “OTs” coming back, the way that Hubbard promised it would work. I’m sure that true believers of his ilk have some justification for why neither the CofS nor the indies can attract anyone anymore, I’m guessing blamed on something like supposed suppression by the eons-old “psych” conspiracy, but the failure of even past-life members to come back to the fold as explicitly predicted, is an epic fail, as the saying goes.
Peacemaker,
I’ve seen some posts that Hubbard supposedly took a detour to another planet to “clear” that one or to work on the next “levels” or whatnot. There’s always an excuse, and in a cult that has its basis in the “space opera” devised by Hubbard, excuses abound.
Some cults implode when the “apocalypse” doesn’t manifest, or the teachings have a specific time frame that doesn’t come to pass. That’s usually when there is a mass casualty event as the “leader” can’t bear to lose the faithful. Scientology is unique in its ability to rewrite history. It’s Miscavages lack of creativity that is likely to end things. He can’t write the next chapter effectively and has no more carrots to dangle. His only recourse is to continually repackage Hubbard’s ramblings. The members still in will likely start to realize that once they get to OTVIII there’s nothing left. That’s probably why he resists people gaining that level. If he can keep the carrot dangling forever, then no one will look around and say “that’s all? I sacrificed my life for THIS??”
Maybe more and more people will see the happiness that Mike and the others have attained and ask “why am I doing this?”
We can hope.
Kat
Kat, Hubbard originally said that he would come back as a political leader – so he set up an excuse for not showing up at an org. I’d say that Scientology is sort of in between the examples you cite: The promise of coming back again is not quite as concrete as the groups that set a specific, failed, apocalyptic date, and yet Miscavige can’t paper over such a fundamental doctrine, and widely held expectation, either.
The issue with the levels may be more of a problem. They actually had people paying in advance for OT IX and X 30 years ago when the initial big surge of members went through OT VIII, though that fiasco is slowly fading, along with the members taken in by it – many of who seem to have became disillusioned after a few years after OT VIII turned out not to be so life transforming, anyway. But Miscavige has continued to dangle the carrot of those levels, and his inability to delivery probably is one of the things slowly eating away at Scientology’s ability to hold on to its membership, even if it does not precipitate a crisis. He can try to roll out some banal, cobbled-together version of OT IX and X – there’s already been some pretty good speculation, about specific old Hubbard material he could try to recycle – but that has its own risks if it falls flat or goes badly (the rollout of the LOC and KTL courses of the 1990s resulted in a lot of people leaving, ironically because it was successful in getting them to re-prioritize their lives, but on their own terms).
My guess is that Miscavige has a fair chance of being able to use his current bag of tricks to hold the CofS together for the rest of his expectable lifespan; even a 5% annual rate of decline, doesn’t quite cut the membership in half every decade. But whoever came after him, would inherit an intractable mess teetering on the edge of disaster – and would probably quickly turn around and scapegoat Miscavige, in typical Scientology fashion. And then there are the possibilities of unexpected events, including just a hard blow from losing a lot of diehard baby boomer members and staff.
Kat said:”once they get to OTVIII there’s nothing left”.
More like, When they get to OTVIII, there was nothing there in the first place.
Kat said:”…. Some cults implode when the “apocalypse” doesn’t manifest, or the teachings have a specific time frame that doesn’t come to pass.”
Hubbard was a past master of giving excuses why something didn’t turn out as he predicted, always enforcing somehow the idea that HE was faultless and that SOMEONE ELSE was the reason. Sadly, too few still in can recognize the truth that the “TECH”(techniques) never did perform as promoted and that it only worked as Hubbard INTENDED — to trap the gullible as his slaves, the amassing of which somehow made him “stronger”. Sad little man…. AND Mustsavage is even sadder and littler.
scientology* IS imploding; slower than many of us would like, but it has met its Waterloo in the Internet and the information Age.
*I refuse to capitalize scientology even when not doing so sticks out grammatically like a sore thumb. The cult deserves no respect, not even that meaningless bit of recognition.
Peacemaker,
Organized religions have been selling their various versions of “put up with misery/poverty/injustice/discomfort, etc. in this life and you’ll be saved and happy and at peace eternally ever after” for thousands of years, and for just as many thousands of years, people have been buying it.
This policy appeals to that desire in each of us to help, to be noble and unselfish.
The Church of Scientology has its own version of the ages old, “suffer now, be rewarded later” policy which Miscavige abuses to enrich himself in his various scams.
People need to be noble. Have you noticed?
Or, if not to BE noble, to at least FEEL that way.
This is a generalization but I find it workable:
No matter what dumb/ selfish/ unhelpful/destructive or self-destructive acts people might be engaging in, or might have perpetrated, they’ll attribute noble, UNselfish, compassionate reasons for doing or having done them.
The people who run organized religions know this and can manipulate and exploit their believers accordingly if they’re so inclined.
The Sea Org in 3 panels!
Off Topic but still relevant. The Mike Rinder bobble head went on sale Tuesday. I ordered one on Tuesday. I live in Ohio. It arrived today! Not to sound kinky but, I think I’m in love!
According to Buddhist teachings too, we come back.
But the chances are high that we come back as animals.
Why? Because there are more spirits in need of a body than there are human bodies available.
That is like a lottery. With the winning ticket we get a human body, otherwise we are to be reborn as animals, because there are also billions of billions of dead animals in quest of a new body.
According to Buddhism, there are methods to improve our chances to come back as human beings. In short:
– Be ethical
– Be generous
– Make vows to be reborn as a human being
– At the time of death, avoid negative emotions such as anger, attachment, etc.
As Hubbard was dominated by anger and craving, according to Buddhist teachings, the chances are high that he was reborn as an animal, or even worse.
And…the goal of Buddhism is NOT to come back.
I never realized that. But it makes good sense and it’s nice to know. Thank you.
Ummm …. would it be possible to hire a plane and drop leaflets on some locations where S.O. members are bound to find them? We could drop the business cards from the plane and/or flyers telling people some truths they may not believe.
Or we could make up some stories to tell them. After all, if THE SCAM can brainwash them by telling them all kinds of insane lies, maybe we could think of some things to tell them that would hasten their attempt to start a mutiny and make THE MONSTER walk the plank?
Pls realize this is mostly just a joke but I wonder if it just might be possible to drop some leaflets that could have a positive result? Or is this just another pipe dream?
“And…the goal of Buddhism is NOT to come back.”
Yes and no, it depends on the motivation.
Buddhists from the greater vehicle have the purpose to come back in order to help suffering beings. The main purpose is to help, but for this they have to come back.
Buddhists from the lesser vehicle have a goal of personal liberation. When they reach that goal, they are free from automatic reincarnations and they can choose to come back or not.
According to Tibetan Masters, the human form is the best in order to work on the spiritual level, which is not possible as animals or deities. Tibetan Buddhists make vows in order to be reborn as human beings, so that they can continue their practice until they reach the state of Buddha.
We humans seem to have an endless supply of belief systems available to our consciousness. The Cult of El Con and Davey the Dildo is just a more recent iteration …….. IMHO!
Do we need them and if so, for what purpose? Seems like being ethical and generous could be rewards enough to live a good life. As soon as we need to do them so that we can …..(end up in heaven, come back as a person, achieve nirvana, etc.) it becomes a potential for angst.
Man has used belief systems to control his fellow man for thousands of years. So how has it worked out for us?
Yo Dave,
Whazit gonna be big boy? Ya gonna go for a 21 year LOA or just bail for Target Too and join up with the numero uno biggest being this side of Arslykus?
Ya know, if You could get Tom to hook up with a thirties something gal, maybe you could con them into hatching a new body for you and you could live in the new penthouse in downtown murkywater. You would have to give up some lavish digs and maybe yer tanning bed but …………….. it might just be the best ticket out of a crappy situation. Just sayin Dave.
“Man has used belief systems to control his fellow man for thousands of years. So how has that worked out for us.”
Bingo.
Answer: Not well.
As justification for war self-abnegation, slavery – man’s inhumanity to man – on and on – make them noble for complying.
God wants it. Jesus wants it. Allah will be pleased Zeus and Athena conferred and sent an oracle. The Pharoah…etc., etc., you’ll be HIGHLY rewarded in the afterlife…you’re safeguarding your eterniity.
Take your pick of endless reasons given as to how and why its ALWAYS the noble thing to do, the right thing to do for people to be either perpetrators of inhumanity, or its victims.
Without a noble reason, how can men be made to leave their homes and fight strange people in strange lands where the likelihood is they’ll get killed or maimed? Work their entire lives without pay; agree that their lives and happiness are less valuable than the lives and happiness of others?
Give them a grand, noble, beautiful, spiritual, godly reason, that’s how.
Make it a matter of their principles, their honor, and what the Higher Power wants for them, their ultimate reward, and, last but not least, their eternal salvation.
Works every time!
Or, according the Akashic Record teaching of Western esotericism, there is a collective human memory that everyone can access. It’s arguably a better theory than individual reincarnation, as it would explain why multiple people claim to have recollections of the lives of the same famous historical figures – assuming those aren’t all just false memory phenomenon, essentially the result of wishful thinking.
Hubbard, being extremely egoistic, stuck to the model that allowed him to claim the glory of having been illustrious and important figures in past incarnations, in spite of the long-known problems with that theory, such as all the people claiming to have been Jesus or Cleopatra in their past lives, and so on. As a student of esotericism and the occult, he would almost certainly have been familiar with the Akashic Record, but apparently found it unsatisfactory.
I do appreciate the Buddhist model, I just wanted to point out another one closer to home.
How far down the chain of evolution (not that there is such thing, but you know what i mean) do returning spirits go?
And don’t tell me it’s turtles all the way down!
civmar,
if we are talking about Hubbard, he probably came back as a leech. Seems appropriate.
Kat
(Idle thoughts and no point being made)
At last count there were 170 billion galaxies in the observable universe so coming back as a human being is earth centric.
I think Elron said that once in awhile someone takes a relaxing break for a lifetime as horse or something. I think he was joking on that.
Spacetime in the Astral Plane may be different than spacetime on earth. Hubbard should have figured that out before he departed with 21 earth years as the official LOA for sea orgers. This could be the cause of much confusion and questions about his whereabouts.
(lol)
Much of astronomy is currently focused on finding earth like planets. Obviously we (humans) would like to know if there is the possibility of other planets which could support beings with two chamber brains and human like thinking.
Richard,
But Hubbard knew everything about space and time so HOW could he make a mistake like that??!!?? That goes against everything he claimed. He didn’t say 21 space years, or 21 Planet X years, so he must have been referencing Earth years. So he’s definitely AWOL- send the ships out to grab his sorry deserting ass!
I always thought it was so funny that he claimed to know all about space and time and yet ……. he never knew that time wsa not the same everywhere.
Did you konw that when you ask the question, “What time is it?” There is no single answer. Did you know that we can always make up an answer that begins something like this: The time right now in the third quadrant may be 3:10 AM from this quadrant until the next quadrant but it will be 4:25 in the next quadrant until the sun sets in that quadrant until the sun goes down and we can then the meaning of the matter from that quadrant … oh shit, baby. Oh shit! What can we do? And what should we do? I get the feeling we are royally screwed and tattooed before the sun sets in our quadrant tomorrow. Feeling screwed now? You should be feeling screwed because unless you know better, you will simply be denied the knowledge required to adjust the time to make the time come out OK and until then, your time and my time will always remain different. So, therefore it can be said we are all of us screwed, blue and tatooed. Oy Vey! We are all of us in deep and we don’t know any way to get out. What can we do about that? Oh my gosh! Screwed, Blue and Tatooed. This ain’t no joke. Every single one of us is screwed. There is just no escape. No Way to get out. What to do? What to do?
Skyler,
Just like the white rabbit in Through the Looking Glass.
If you spend too much time worrying about time, you won’t have any left!
Kat
LOL! Providing I could guarantee myself a good owner, I’d be ok with coming back as a dog or a cat. If I’d have to be an animal next lifetime the ideal scene would be coming back as a kitty or a puppy owned by…me. Or a bird. But not in a cage. An eagle, maybe. An eagle would be fun. Or a tropical bird, in a rain forest.
“As Hubbard was dominated by anger and craving, according to Buddhist teachings, the chances are high that he was reborn as an animal, or even worse.”
He must be that BT plaguing my lower GI tract, then.
As a Randroid I have to hold all religions as something found on the ground at cattle feedlots.
As I understand it Objectivism says that by totally rejecting reliance on any “higher authority” up to and including gods, goddesses and God one might get to an explosion and blending of analytical and creative insights and activity, sort of an Oh Tee state.
On the other hand from Encyclopedia Dramatica:
[A Randroid is a follower of Objectivism, a phallocentric religion designed to turn basement dwellers into self-righteous zealots devoted to the worship of a dead soviet hag. It is the most rational belief system in human history.
Randroids have major hard-ons for big business even though most of them, including Rand herself, simply isn’t working hard enough.]
……………………………………………………………….
laughter – I really don’t have any firm opinion, just a bit of study of “Neo Tech” which is a squirrel version of Objectivism which I found rather interesting.
Richard,
Lmao! Would that be like an ayndroid??
Kat
Otherles,
What, exactly, is a randroid? Just curious…
Kat
Hey Kat,
At first I thought it was a follower of James Randy who was a magician who became a quasi-celebrity as a “debunker of myths”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi
But that’s not correct. It turns out to be a follower of Ayn Rand the author.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Randroid
Skyler,
When I was in college, there were groups who were devoted to Rand, but they didn’t refer to themselves as “randroids”. I guess it makes sense in a rather crazy way.
Im not a fan of organized religion, either.
Kat
In his book “The Neo-Tech Discovery” the author Frank R Wallace describes various people currently and throughout history as cheaters or “neocheaters” as he describes them. These are people who produce nothing of value but extract wealth from value producers through political power or getting people to believe in mystical beliefs.
In a section of the book called “Understanding the Philosophical Origins of Power” he describes Plato and Aristotle.
(shortened and paraphrased) [Plato provides the rationalization for all laziness, dishonesty, and value destruction……………Plato assigns virtue to sacrificing individual rights and needs to any arbitrary higher authority, higher power, or external authority…thus Plato is the philosophical father of mysticism and neocheating.
Aristotle says the well being of society is enhanced to the extent that individuals are free to produce objective values for themselves and others. …….By nature, Aristotle nourishes all value producers. Thus Aristotle is the philosophical father of business and Neo-Tech.]
………………………………………
Wallace veers off into into saying, similar to Hubbard, that advanced “Big Beings” create universe(s) so he’s trashed by strict Ayn Rand Objectivists even though many of his viewpoints mirror Objectivism. Most people would agree that Hubbard was “a bit” of a neocheater.
P.S. Wallace trashes Scientology.
[Cleverly manipulative writers such as Fromm and deceptively manipulative organizations or “modern” churches such as Ron Hubbard’s Church of Scientology can be even more dangerous and harmful than the overt, old-time religion or the neurotic, televangelists’ born again approaches.
Many people are drawn into the chameleon-like forms of existentialism through an assortment of highly publicized illusionary benefits designed to indulge almost anyone’s emotions to escape reality. Touted benefits include discovering real truth, peace of mind, happiness, new freedoms, self awareness, increased sensitivity, discovery of one’s true self and a wide variety of health and nutritional benefits. Other benefits touted by groups such as Scientologists include various mystical routes to freedom through self awareness via clearing hang-ups or engrams.]
………………………………
Hey – I figured I could gain new self awareness with Scientology. What’s wrong with that? Wallace is a buzzkill. ………………… (joke)
Cannot imagine a life trapped and wasted inside this cult. This week’s regraded being illustrates rather poignantly the plight of these victims. It’s all just so surreal. And rather sad actually. Mr. Rinder when is your tell all scientology book coming out?
It’s all so, so sad….
The key word here is delusion! They live in another world.
How come they are still around here then?
The money.
Epic.
Wonder why they don’t ask where Hubbard is? He has definitely been gone more than the 21 year leave of absence members are granted.
Since Hubbard himself invented the Sea Org motto “We Come Back” it would be a great question to ask any Sea Org member. Where is he? Why is he so late? Of course Sea Org members are kept separate from the general public with buses so Suppressive Persons can’t ask questions like that. If a Scientology public asks, they can quickly be dragged into ethics.
Hubbard is not going to come back; he is on Target Two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnqWa1RRoM4 (5:30 >)
Pluvo,
I thought he had already come back as an overweight 30 year old still living in his moms basement and delivering pizza to buy junk food and video games. And trolling people on the internet. Am I wrong??
Kat
Glenn:”Wonder why they don’t ask where Hubbard is? He has definitely been gone more than the 21 year leave of absence members are granted.”
Haven’t you learnt yet? Tubby didn’t have to pay attention to no laws; not even the rules HE thunked up. As has been said many times before, he was uncharacteristically remiss in passing on his hat(s) before he “did the bunk”. He didn’t SAY he was going to do this or that, didn’t say he’d be back ever. Maybe all of his overts caught up with him and he can’t return to Teegeeack. Maybe he’s returned to Arslycus to finish that last load of polishing.
Yup, LRH and Pedrito are taking turns on that third row of bricks at Arslycus. Unfortunately they have to share just the one old brush since the CSW wasn’t approved.
If they did ask, they’d be thrown in the hole.
He has so much more research to do and that couldn’t be accomplished on Teegeeak. He has gone to Target II, aka Hell, to work on it.
Great post RB.
Did anyone ever hear anyone they came back from their 21-year loa?
I recall one guy saying he was Hubbard.
OSD.
I know of whom you speak and am inclined to think he truly is Blubbard returned. Why, you might ask. Because the dude has a big criminal record and has done prison time. Blubbard said he would return as a politician, which in my book are essentially criminals who have not been caught.
If he’s not yet institutionalized he’s now residing in Washington state.
https://www.lronhubbardrising.com/
Yeah OK, I admit it, that was me… had ya going for a while though didn’t it? I like sneaking around with a cardboard face held on with string of different people. Problem with impersonating Hubbard was that so many people threw shit at me, literally! Like baboons they were.
IYA,
Lmao! That was YOU??? I’m Sooo sorry about that!
Kat
Well there ought to be a torrent of em soon since the old guard has been dropping like flies for the past 21+ years.
My son was born in 87 and my ex had high hopes the old El Con had jumped in for a ride. lookin back, if I had known then what I know now things would have gone much differently.
But then again, things would not have turned out like they have and although the process of extricating myself was very painful, it is done and I would not change it. I really doubt that I would have made the difficult choices had not the actions of the cult members been so horrifically bad that I would not have believed it possible …… and I was shocked back into reality.
Yo Dave,
Don’t forget Ohh Tea Niner and Tenor. Ate really was ‘truth revealed’ for me. Yer next action will be total freedom from the cult and I’d say yer doing a great job of group auditing on that one. Keep up the good work!
RB, as usual you have your finger on the pulse of real issues that plague SO members.
From an outsiders point of view those staff depicted are insanely brainwashed.
Yeah, COB will get a new job. At Target, in the stockroom, in Aimes, Iowa, where he will steal his own birthday presents. Then he’ll go home to his RV at night, where he will dress up as Little Bo Peep and listen to vintage Joy Villa music…..
I always thought it was Little Miss Muffet – not Little Bo Peep – although it may have been Mary and her little Lamb.
In either case, you made a very funny post. I LOL’d
It’s SO true — The very last people to go up the Bridge to total subjugation are the staff who are delivering the services AND those with any remaining reasoning ability are likely to get depressed by all that is stacked against their advancing OR being paid anything meaningful.
The solution:
Reach Saint Hill Size! The Universe Corps will then arrive very soon and audit you up to Clear and above and beyond!!
LOL
Yeah, RIGHT!!! Has never happened and NEVER will. Just more bullshit, hype and carrots on sticks. Course who knows, with constantly dwindling numbers of public maybe the only ones left to “service” are staff……… Makes me think maybe I should return; HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!!