Wogs keep on to their body more than scientologists do. The lost of a body is nothing to scientologists and everything to wogs but life is more to come up with own stuff helping mankind to a better life.
Im back home, and it was interesting trying to talk to people in the government about this subject. Apparently, Scientology and where it stands is a touchy subject. I got to speak to a few people, and I gave them information that Ive gathered, but Im not going to hold my breath about anything being done. The charity fraud people cant open a case because I never personally gave money to any front group, but they did take a copy of the tax return from ‘drug free world’. It hasn’t cooled my fervor in stopping this horrid cult, and Im planning on going back later this month or in May- just so they know Im not letting it go.
Just thought Id give ya’ll an update if you wanted it. Overall, it went well, but-like I said- no one gave me any concrete affirmative that they would act on anything I gave them. I know that since Mike and Leah already tried, there was zero chance of me getting any traction, but Im not going to stop trying. My friend will be out of the country for a bit, so I will have to wait for him to return from runnin and gunnin to get another try at it. I have also reached out to some of my friends in academia, but everything in DC is so focused on the presidency that I doubt they will come up for breath soon.
In the mean time, I will get back to discussing posts and resume my twitter attacks. Im a little worried that I may have stumbled into something somewhere because I keep getting weird emails and calls with no one on the other end- is this something I should be worried about or am I just getting paranoid???
Kat, you are an inspiration. I need to start writing some letters myself, to varous politicians – and to those useful wog idiots who get recruited (or bribed) for the photo ops. Do keep posting your activities here. thanks.
Your Congressman is a friend of mine, Bixntram. Maybe you and I can have a meeting with him about the fraud that is $camology the next time he’s back here. Interested? FB Message me or email me – FB Messenger’s probably best – and let me know.
You should def be careful about it. I get at least 2 or 3 robo calls per week. I also get the same number of calls from people trying to sell me things like Duct Cleaning and Carpet Steaming.
It finally got to the point where I programmed my phone to just refuse all incoming calls unless the numbers were on my “Friends List”.
You may want to try that just to discourage people from putting you on some kind of list.
Also, whenever I do turn off that feature (because I’m expecting a call and don’t know what number they will use, I find one of the best weapons is to waste their time. So when they call, as soon as they say a few words, I ask if they can hold. If they say no, I hang up. But they all say yes or just ignore the question and try to steamroll over me. In that case, I just put the phone in a drawer and wait till they hang up.
If they are willing to hold, I put them on hold for about 10 seconds. That conditions them into thinking that next time I put them on hold, I won’t be long. (evil snicker).
But when I come back after 10 seconds, I let them talk for about 10 seconds and then say, “Oh dear I have to put you on hold again. Is it OK? If they agree, it’s into the drawer with them. But since they have been conditioned to expect I will come back, these people usually do not hang up for a long time. I discovered this by accident and I enjoy it.
Some days, when I’m bored, I turn off my auto-rejection just so I can fuck with some of them.
I would def be careful though. You don’t want to have people coming around and searching thru your garbage.
Lol- if they search through my trash, they will be very disappointed! I have the robo call block so these aren’t from a fake number, and since they don’t say anything, I don’t think they want me to buy anything. But I’m just going to assume paranoia since I’m not doing enough to anyone to warrant anything crazy! (Although I’ve been pretty mean to Meghan Fialkoff and Ed Perkin)
Good luck to anyone searching OUR garbage. They won’t even find an empty Cigarette pack, darn it and I almost never answer the phone unless I like the caller ID and want to slow them down. I’ll pick up & say “Hello, but otherwise put it off to the side so I don’t hear their script. I leave it there until they give up and the “off-hook” noise starts going off. HATE that set of tones, so I guess they found the right combination. A couple or so months ago, I got a call from call-farm at Flag for some reason. Didn’t understand the first girl machine-gunning her script too fast in an accent I couldn’t decipher, so I asked for someone for whom English was their first language (Yup, that’s snarky….) Who should come on the line, but Rick Alexander, a “name” from my days in NY 45 years or so ago. He never DID get to the purpose of the call, though we briefly chatted. He sounded hale and hearty, even through the calling farm noise in the background. So, SOMEtimes, it can be fun to actually pick up and comm.
You ask for someone whose Native Tongue is English? OMG! In my opinion, that is just incredibly mean and nasty of you. For shame!
I just cut to the point and ask for someone who speaks English. Plain and simple. After all, when you are speaking with some ignoramus, you have to keep things simple and direct. Wouldn’t you agree that is a lot more evil than just “incredibly mean and rude”?
The thing that never fails to amaze me however, is no matter what language they are speaking, no matter how impossible they are to understand, no matter how terrible their attempt to speak English, ….
I will get back to the above rant (Rant #1) in a moment. But I interupt Rant #1 for a moment to bring you a little of the following rant (Rant #2).
Most of these people are so incredibly inept. They do things like qualify the word “impossible” as if some things are more impossible or less impossible than others. They don’t understand there are some English words (like “impossible” and “pregnant”) that can never be used in degrees.
So when they ask, “how impossible is something”?, well … that just proves how incredibly inept they are when it comes to speaking English and they should never have a job that involves speaking English over the telephone. Doesn’t it?
OK. Back to Rant #1 now. It never fails to amaze me that whenever I tell them I want someone who speaks English, they get incredibly offended by this. They say, “I speak English just fine and you are a moron and a bigot as well.”
I better stop now before someone reports me to some Anti-Discrimination Govt Agency.
Duct cleaning would be a REAL eye-opener for us. We have baseboard hot water heating, so NO ducts. Talk about a stone-cold call that would be, likely to freeze something — I don’t know what — off.
After leaving scientology about 2 decades ago, after GAT, my first idea was to join squirrel groups. But I discovered the materials of the OT levels on the Internet and realized that I was no more interested.
Then I studied many different spiritual schools and eventually found that Mahayana Buddhism is best suited to my needs.
There are even supernormal powers along that path, the equivalent of “OT powers”, but they are not the purpose, they just happen at certain levels.
The purpose is spiritual freedom, happiness and the elimination of suffering, for self and others, and for that you have to become a fully awakened Buddha.
Regarding Tom Cruise I wonder if DM is having second thoughts about him moving to Clearwater. When and if he takes up full time residence the place might start crawling with paparazzi. Paparazzi meeting at noon in the Scientology “public park”.
I’ll see your Paparazzi and raise you one big coup.
How do you think The Monster might react if the faithful began to start talking and talking about Life under Tom as a choice to Life under The Monster?
What if we hired a plane and dropped some leaflets on The Faithful explaining how to help this change come true. Even better, what if we hired a sky-writing plane to write some messages in the sky overhead of The Faithful explaining to them how much better life would be under one Cool Tom Cat instead of a Crackpot Monster? Do you think that might be enough to get the Crazy Monster Man to do something that could land him in Prison? Wouldn’t that be just loverly?
I was thinking of something simpler like “camera wars” with the CoS sending out people to get pictures of the paparazzi traipsing around and the paparazzi in turn taking pictures of the CoS people. The paparazzi would probably win since they have better cameras.
There are many other exciting possibilities when Tom comes to town. Hubbard wanted to recruit celebrities to attract people into scientology but these days celebrities merely attract attention TO scientology. Tom living in or even just vacationing in Clearwater will keep scientology being mentioned in the tabloids.
Skyler:”What if we hired a plane and dropped some leaflets on The Faithful explaining how to help this change come true. Even better, what if we hired a sky-writing plane to write some messages in the sky overhead of The Faithful explaining to them how much better life would be under one Cool Tom Cat instead of a Crackpot Monster? Do you think that might be enough to get the Crazy Monster Man to do something that could land him in Prison? Wouldn’t that be just loverly?”
Personally, I’d prefer handing out Aftermath Foundation cards despite the harassment the scn “security” staff would give us. Every card given could be another chink in DM’s armor, one or more family members escaping, that many fewer willing to ‘die’ for their dwarfenführer; or ‘with’ him, perhaps, thinking “Flavoraide” or “Kool-aid”, to use the vernacular. FIRST, we give the cards to the security staff, using our most attractive “agents”. THEN we hit the folks in the parking lot — if any. scientologists can’t hardly afford cars or to commute in to the morgs unless they’re VERY new to the scene and still can afford to have their own place.
At least, amongst those who survived long enough to GET old and not get TOO sick. Get too old or too sick and it sounds like they dump you on Social Services that scientology doesn’t support in any way — other than overloading it with those who can’t cut it any more.
Dave, I’d say that male Scientologists experience hair loss at about the same rate as WOGs.
Nevertheless, baldness is a desired condition for anyone attempting Exteriorization.
An innumerable amount of Scientologists have experienced the “Lost in the Reeds Phenomenon” while attempting to pop out of their heads.
This often results in having to purchase several expensive 12 hour Repair Auditing Intensives before the person Cognites that they did indeed Exteriorize from their head, but not far enough.
Getting caught in one’s own head of hair almost always puts a Thetan in a distressed state that can only be corrected by a Class XII auditor.
Thetans with female bodies almost always Exteriorize through their foreheads and rarely experience this phenomenon.
There’s a reason for that but I didn’t make it far enough Up the Bridge to find out what it was. (maybe next lifetime)
LRH was working on several Auditing Rundowns to remedy this but he was called to Target II before he could complete his work in this area,
This is somewhat true or whatever.
ML
RB
It’s because we’re all descended from Athena, who was born from out of her father Zeus’s forehead, and we all remember that as the escape route. Hubbard never said *those* Gods were implants, did he?
Hmm, I’d almost think that RB had been reading the discussion about independent Scientology that developed out of Wednesday’s topic….
That discussion made me think, I don’t get the impression that many people who leave the CofS go to the indie world anymore, like they used to in times past. The indies seem to be a dwindling group of mostly old-timers who left in the last century, literally. Am I right about that?
For instance, the cohort who left in the last 10 to 15 years, most prominently former international management staffers and executives, seem to have briefly flirted with Scientology outside of the CofS, if at all, and if so then not as a close part of existing indie groups, then gave up and moved on. And why is that?
Does the existence of independent Scientology, and the possibility of continuing on the “bridge,” still play an important role in helping get people out, or has it outlived its usefulness in that regard?
All the minimally active, incomplete, derelict and defunct indie websites aren’t exactly the best advertisement for Scientology outside of the CofS. But they do present the idea of an alternative to the CofS, and point to a few independent auditors to be found.
Completely speculatively I would say that in the past it served as a stepping stone for WOGdom to many, the majority don’t stay in the indie groups as evidenced by their minuscule size. These days it might still serve a purpose as a potential, during the doubt/readjustment phase there is the internal argument “If I really want to keep going up the bridge there’s always the indies” meaning that there’s a way if one wishes.
The fact that most people instead seem to choose just remaining outside might be because of the multitude of information available once the ex is out and starts looking, over time determining that the value of continuing even outside the church is simply not worth it.
There have been 2 or more indie groups that tried to get services and websites using the term ‘scientology’. The Dror Center in Israel appears to be doing well, but I know of no other indie groups. I wonder if Captain Bill Robertson’s group is still going?
I suspect that most indie groups are just way stations for the road to Wogdom. But that is just my opinion based on what others have said. There are no concrete statistics to back up any opinion.
The “tech” doesn’t work at ANY of the “official” cult locations. So why would anyone think it would be different at any “unofficial” ones? The basic lie is it works. And until one sees this one will continue to have a foot stuck in the trap. Confront the truth, take personal responsibility and walk away from it all.
I just doesn’t work. It is all a scam and it matters not which company is “delivering” it.
The “official” explanation that CofS members are sold on, and even hooked on through indoctrination, is of course that the “tech” doesn’t work only if it’s not been applied properly – but is supposed to, when it is. So it’s hardly surprising that disaffected members might look for “tech” that worked outside the “church.”
The problem is, there have been indies since literally the first year of Dianetics, and no one has ever been able to get the “tech” to work outside of Hubbard’s organizations, either, other than in a few temporary, illusory situations that have always turned out to be a bust in the end. The continual failure of all manner of independent attempts over the better part of a century, to produce anything more than anecdotes and tales of “wins” that aren’t compelling enough to even hold their own groups together long-term, much less to attract outsiders and grow, is itself the best de facto proof that the tech doesn’t work, and can’t be made to.
So we can thank the indies for conclusively proving Scientology’s failure. I also think that former mission holder Sarge Gerbode’s later, properly researched and scientifically validated work in TIR, shows that at best if all the superfluous if not even potentially dangerous parts of the “tech” are stripped away, at the heart of it is a therapeutic approach that is just moderately effective compared to other talk therapies and trauma reduction techniques.
I’m not entirely sure what your intended message was, but I got one idea: That “the tech” was designed NOT to work when it was delivered properly. IMO, Ron never intended or *wanted* to produce any ‘clears’, as he wanted everyone to be his slaves, even the BTs freed from OT III – VIII. Those ‘elemental beings’ had value to him in Thelema once he had them under his control. ‘Course, he never did get them under his control and they made his body ‘stroke out’ quite literally.
Saying “Scientology doesn’t work” is all encompassing and definitional. What is necessary to say it worked? What if some of it worked and some of it didn’t? Sorting out true from false and fact from fiction is an individual matter. It can be done.
Wynski: BINGO!, but “Double blind scientific method.” wouldn’t work. For the “proper” tech to be applied, it had to be given to the right person. Otherwise, you’re talking about every process being given to everyone and seeing if anything good came of it for ANY of the participants,no matter what their initial state was. I guess that’d work about the same as DM’s method: giving the WRONG process to everyone and not caring/noticing that EVERYONE was getting worse.
Richard, saying “Scientology works” is similarly flawed, and actually even more fallacious – the burden is on those making the extraordinary claims, to provide extraordinary proof. “Scientology doesn’t work” is actually the logical and evidentiary default, along with “there’s no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow,” “pigs don’t fly,” and so on.
Scientology is supposed to be science – “an exact science, and its application is on the order of, but simpler than, engineering” as Hubbard put it. And science is no more an individual matter, than gravity is, though infamously a few people back in the 1960s, apparently under the influence of drugs, did attempt to treat gravity as such.
There’s actually been enough science done to nail it down reasonable well, though. Most of Hubbard’s theories about things like engrams and the body sweating out toxins, have been proven wrong.
Basic auditing can provide some of the benefits of talk therapy, however – and that’s it, the entirety of the extent to which it “works,” other than to perhaps provide some placebo effects. Scientology may occasionally produce some illusory effects such as “exteriorization,” or, more accurately, disassociation, but that comes at the risk of unethical and dangerous tinkering with the same mechanisms that can result in psychosis, or psychotic breakdowns, which it does in fact “work” to produce in some cases.
And of course it has “worked” to provide Hubbard and now Miscavige lives of luxury, and the intoxication of power over followers.
Richard, in fairness I should also note that there may well have been some additional benefit from getting together with like-minded people in an environment of supporting one anothers’ self improvement goals. There are studies that indicate, that people with involvements such as traditional church attendance do indeed experience various benefits.
But that has nothing to do with the “tech” or even the organization, really. I think that exes actually give away the credit to Hubbard and Scientology for that sort of “win,” when it was probably really something they created for themselves.
So you have the benefits of some talk therapy, and a support group or spiritual community. That’s probably all that really “works,” and as a wise ex taught, has more to do with the context (well-intentioned people getting together) than the content (Hubbard’s “work”).
Anyone can look at the subject as a whole and cherry pick the things that did NOT work. Saying NOTHING worked is a fundamentalist position and the only explanation is “brainwashed”.
Richard:””Anyone can look at the subject as a whole and cherry pick the things that did NOT work. Saying NOTHING worked is a fundamentalist position and the only explanation is “brainwashed”.
Then riddle me this: Name two things that DID work AS ADVERTISED.
PeaceMakersays
As discussed the other day, the new Independent Reformed Church of Scientology (IRCS) was apparently formed as a sort of successor to the moribund First Independent Church of Scientology (FICS). The IRCS website lists fewer than 10 affiliated auditors around the world.
The iScientology website, which is connected to some other group, also lists a handful of auditors; there may be other similar ones, as well.
Then there are some other little groups and “orgs” in Washington state, St. Louis, and I think also in Illinois, that I’ve run across; I haven’t really made an attempt to track them all, except to note that there are only a few and they are all tiny, and seem to experience a fair bit of turnover and infighting.
The Dror center at least has an active website, which makes it unique in the indie world. It’s hard to tell how they’re really doing, though I don’t think they’re really expanding, and after picking up a bunch of disaffected Israeli members, seem to mostly serve former members from other places like Russia and Eastern Europe.
There are still Capt. Bill’s “Ron’s Orgs” and the Freezone in Europe, though I have trouble gauging their size, except to note that that little seems to be heard of them and their websites don’t appear very active, so I can only assume they are also fading away. The Ron’s Org Committee has about 2 dozen auditors and “orgs” listed and seems to have been updated a year ago, while FreeZone Auditors, last updated in 2016, has no entries:
Captain Bill’s “RON’S Orgs” seem to be small but still active enough to have a handful of operating groups, mainly in Russia and Germany. I have a feeling that it’s much easier for a freezone group to operate above-the-table in countries that have a very poor relationship with the CoS.
I also think they’ve had less to worry about with issues like copyright – of “religious” materials! – that really only work in the US legal system. Plus I suspect being far from Scientology headquarters, it’s harder for the CofS to try to infiltrate and disrupt them, and local authorities are also less likely to tolerate such shennanigans.
But even without such “suppression,” and certain seeming advantages, the indies in Europe still don’t fare much better. And I think they were larger to begin with, so they could even have declined just as much proportionally.
No jimpjorps, it is actually easier and safer to run such groups in Hollyweird CA than in Russia. The CoS does NOT go after the Indie groups in the USA.
Wynski, it’s well documented that at least in the 1980s, Scientology went after indie groups both covertly with spies and infiltrators, overtly with lawsuits, and perhaps also in the grey area of trying to get them in trouble with law enforcement. Do we really know that they no longer do any of that?
The CofS is certainly still using those sort of tactics against others, with “Squirrel Busters” deployed against Marty Rathbun within the last decade, and an apparent recent attempt to infiltrate the Aftermath Foundation – and, again, to try to use law enforcement to get at them. Once more, it’s possible that we know relatively little of what’s going on with the indies, just because they’re now so tiny.
That was 30 YEARS AGO Peacemaker. WTF does that have to do with now? Indie groups in the US advertising FULL bridge services have existed for almost 20 years now with ZERO suits and attacks from the CoS.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT? You sound like that psycho poster known as marildi… Are you related?
Wynski, jeez! Scientology’s policy of trying to “bust up” squirrel groups is Hubbard-ordained and was carried out for decades in informal and extra-legal ways, so I’d just like to confirm if it has actually ended.
Wynskisays
Peacemaker, you’d like it confirmed?
Sure, go find all the copyright infringement suits filed by the church against US squirrel groups in the last 15 years. They will be in Federal Court if they exist.
Once you search you will know. OR, you could simply contact the US groups that have been advertising in the open that they deliver OT levels and ask about the suits they have been served with over the lat 15 years.
PeaceMakersays
Wynski, I’m referring to old-school harassment and infiltration, like Hubbard originally directed. They did that to indies like Mayo in the ’80s, in addition to the lawsuits that Scientology used for a while.
Does anyone really know if the indies still have trouble with that, or not?
Wynskisays
“Wynski, I’m referring to old-school harassment and infiltration, like Hubbard originally directed. ”
It is F’ing simple Peacemaker! CONTACT THE PEOPLE OFFERING THE SERVICES AND FIND OUT!!!!!!!
jimsays
Peacemaker,
My conclusions from asking myself those questions are: The 50-60’s dianetic and scientology auditors that could be successful with the techniques have gone, or left, and taken a skill-set that could not be replaced. The 60-70’s auditors learned a narrowed and fixed skill-set that required more agreement and cooperation from their clients for there to be benefits. From the 80’s forward the client (PC) was required to step onto a very narrow road and to go along it in lock-step with no deviation, with just so-so results. A few old-timer auditors still make it work, no new exes have any depth of understanding to make it work, and almost no one inside has the freedom to make the ‘tech’ workable for themselves. So, yes, the practice is going extinct.
ps: The auditors(counselors) who really grasped the materials for themselves, and who could make up their own ‘tech’ as they audited got kicked out by Hubbard, or later on by Miscavige, or just packed up and left the suppression of their abilities and skills.
There are also some like my family member, at Int Base for 45 years, who are emotionally and physically beaten down and though they were highly respected as auditors, they are now doing menial tasks as aging Sea Ogres.
jim, the auditors in the 60-70 ALSO did not deliver the abilities gained. Just as all auditors afterwards. Just another delusion passed around by “old timers”. It has never been “workable”. With or without the CoS supervision.
Jim, I think the old-time auditors were mostly just innately capable counselors who would have been effective with any other talk therapy modality or “tech,” as well. Besides personal experience, what I notice that stands out in others’ accounts of the auditors they really liked, are consistent characterizations that they were people who left their clients feeling listened to.
I think that also sort of points to one reason that more people nowadays just drop out entirely, that they’re in more because of social pressure and status-seeking. When they finally decide to get off the merry-go-round, they’re at a point of being done with the “tech” and have few actual positive feelings remaining about experiences like auditing.
And as I’ve written before, it looks to me as if auditing has slowly been made more rote and then finally de-emphasized under Miscavige, in good part due to trying to reduce risks such as people going “PTS Type III” psychotic. Once it gets past the basics of counseling, for instance attempting to audit or process people to get them to go “exterior” is actually disassociation, and that’s one step short of psychosis, so some are inevitably going to be be pushed over the edge – Lisa McPherson being the most tragic example.
I’m curious about how the indies handle the problem of “PTS Type III.” Perhaps they’re dealing with people already vetted enough to be particularly fit for Scientology auditing and processing, and possibly their auditors are those adept enough to recognize and handle problems before they become severe – but I find it hard to imagine that the issue hasn’t cropped up at times, even if they’re so small that we may not have heard about it.
Oh, and on top of it all there’s now the internet, where people can find out for themselves many of the sort of things that they used to have to go to indies to figure out or discover.
Peacemaker, there are a lot of stages in the Pilgrim’s Progress out of Scientology. Some who leave are just sick of the Sea Org or mad at Dave Miscavige but still thoroughly attached to the Hubbard opus.
After a time, with exposure to the real world, cracks in the shell begin to appear. After a titanic struggle the newborn exe chick breaks free. Only to discover that the real world has hazards of its own.
Everybody’s journey is different. But if there was a truly helpful, active, vibrant alternate-Scientology-lite community it might serve as a way post for those on the way out.
Unfortunately a cleared cannibal is still a cannibal. Hubbard’s “insights” were just a way to fool people into giving him free labor and money. No matter how carefully you sift the muck it still gets your hands dirty.
Eventually just about everybody finally figures this out. But sometimes it takes decades. No need to argue and dispute with those still trying to make sense of it all, keep presenting the truth and eventually they will get it.
Throughout the 1970’s probably thousands of people, myself included, moved to Los Angeles to take advantage of the advanced training and processing not available at the outer orgs and missions. These days probably few “disenchanted” scientologists would relocate to be near an indie group.
A trend seems to be developing which is online scn courses and people experimenting with online auditing.
When I was having serious second thoughts 20 (?!) years ago, the Free Zone was a safe space to air my doubts and misgivings with people who had gone through their own personal trials with the COS. Discussions via a couple of news groups were usually open, stress-free, and without criticism or judgement.
Though I eventually rejected the “tech,” my position today is that anyone should be able to practice whatever religion they choose. While the COS would maintain that people like me who vigorously criticize them are anti-religious bigots, I would advise any current Scio that the Indies are a much preferable option if you want to continue your studies and activities. It’s not always realistic to expect a Scio to simply leave outright without having choices as to where to go from there.
Wogs keep on to their body more than scientologists do. The lost of a body is nothing to scientologists and everything to wogs but life is more to come up with own stuff helping mankind to a better life.
Very good comic, but I hope Ted checked his wallet before he got in the car.
An actual science can be independently verified.
Hey ya’ll-
Im back home, and it was interesting trying to talk to people in the government about this subject. Apparently, Scientology and where it stands is a touchy subject. I got to speak to a few people, and I gave them information that Ive gathered, but Im not going to hold my breath about anything being done. The charity fraud people cant open a case because I never personally gave money to any front group, but they did take a copy of the tax return from ‘drug free world’. It hasn’t cooled my fervor in stopping this horrid cult, and Im planning on going back later this month or in May- just so they know Im not letting it go.
Just thought Id give ya’ll an update if you wanted it. Overall, it went well, but-like I said- no one gave me any concrete affirmative that they would act on anything I gave them. I know that since Mike and Leah already tried, there was zero chance of me getting any traction, but Im not going to stop trying. My friend will be out of the country for a bit, so I will have to wait for him to return from runnin and gunnin to get another try at it. I have also reached out to some of my friends in academia, but everything in DC is so focused on the presidency that I doubt they will come up for breath soon.
In the mean time, I will get back to discussing posts and resume my twitter attacks. Im a little worried that I may have stumbled into something somewhere because I keep getting weird emails and calls with no one on the other end- is this something I should be worried about or am I just getting paranoid???
Kat
Kat, you are an inspiration. I need to start writing some letters myself, to varous politicians – and to those useful wog idiots who get recruited (or bribed) for the photo ops. Do keep posting your activities here. thanks.
Bixntran,
If we all write letters and keep it up it could be the tipping point for some agency.
I got the feeling they want to do something but are being held back because of that pesky “religion” appellation someone was dumb enough to give them.
Kat
Your Congressman is a friend of mine, Bixntram. Maybe you and I can have a meeting with him about the fraud that is $camology the next time he’s back here. Interested? FB Message me or email me – FB Messenger’s probably best – and let me know.
You should def be careful about it. I get at least 2 or 3 robo calls per week. I also get the same number of calls from people trying to sell me things like Duct Cleaning and Carpet Steaming.
It finally got to the point where I programmed my phone to just refuse all incoming calls unless the numbers were on my “Friends List”.
You may want to try that just to discourage people from putting you on some kind of list.
Also, whenever I do turn off that feature (because I’m expecting a call and don’t know what number they will use, I find one of the best weapons is to waste their time. So when they call, as soon as they say a few words, I ask if they can hold. If they say no, I hang up. But they all say yes or just ignore the question and try to steamroll over me. In that case, I just put the phone in a drawer and wait till they hang up.
If they are willing to hold, I put them on hold for about 10 seconds. That conditions them into thinking that next time I put them on hold, I won’t be long. (evil snicker).
But when I come back after 10 seconds, I let them talk for about 10 seconds and then say, “Oh dear I have to put you on hold again. Is it OK? If they agree, it’s into the drawer with them. But since they have been conditioned to expect I will come back, these people usually do not hang up for a long time. I discovered this by accident and I enjoy it.
Some days, when I’m bored, I turn off my auto-rejection just so I can fuck with some of them.
I would def be careful though. You don’t want to have people coming around and searching thru your garbage.
Skyler,
Lol- if they search through my trash, they will be very disappointed! I have the robo call block so these aren’t from a fake number, and since they don’t say anything, I don’t think they want me to buy anything. But I’m just going to assume paranoia since I’m not doing enough to anyone to warrant anything crazy! (Although I’ve been pretty mean to Meghan Fialkoff and Ed Perkin)
Kat
Good luck to anyone searching OUR garbage. They won’t even find an empty Cigarette pack, darn it and I almost never answer the phone unless I like the caller ID and want to slow them down. I’ll pick up & say “Hello, but otherwise put it off to the side so I don’t hear their script. I leave it there until they give up and the “off-hook” noise starts going off. HATE that set of tones, so I guess they found the right combination. A couple or so months ago, I got a call from call-farm at Flag for some reason. Didn’t understand the first girl machine-gunning her script too fast in an accent I couldn’t decipher, so I asked for someone for whom English was their first language (Yup, that’s snarky….) Who should come on the line, but Rick Alexander, a “name” from my days in NY 45 years or so ago. He never DID get to the purpose of the call, though we briefly chatted. He sounded hale and hearty, even through the calling farm noise in the background. So, SOMEtimes, it can be fun to actually pick up and comm.
You ask for someone whose Native Tongue is English? OMG! In my opinion, that is just incredibly mean and nasty of you. For shame!
I just cut to the point and ask for someone who speaks English. Plain and simple. After all, when you are speaking with some ignoramus, you have to keep things simple and direct. Wouldn’t you agree that is a lot more evil than just “incredibly mean and rude”?
The thing that never fails to amaze me however, is no matter what language they are speaking, no matter how impossible they are to understand, no matter how terrible their attempt to speak English, ….
I will get back to the above rant (Rant #1) in a moment. But I interupt Rant #1 for a moment to bring you a little of the following rant (Rant #2).
Most of these people are so incredibly inept. They do things like qualify the word “impossible” as if some things are more impossible or less impossible than others. They don’t understand there are some English words (like “impossible” and “pregnant”) that can never be used in degrees.
So when they ask, “how impossible is something”?, well … that just proves how incredibly inept they are when it comes to speaking English and they should never have a job that involves speaking English over the telephone. Doesn’t it?
OK. Back to Rant #1 now. It never fails to amaze me that whenever I tell them I want someone who speaks English, they get incredibly offended by this. They say, “I speak English just fine and you are a moron and a bigot as well.”
I better stop now before someone reports me to some Anti-Discrimination Govt Agency.
Duct cleaning would be a REAL eye-opener for us. We have baseboard hot water heating, so NO ducts. Talk about a stone-cold call that would be, likely to freeze something — I don’t know what — off.
And I promise to take bobble-mike (he really needs a different name) with me next time to take some pics!
I propose the name: Awesome Mike!
Is the little guy behind the Mike suppose to be little Davy Miscavage?
Who else would be that small, other than the tiny twerp?
After leaving scientology about 2 decades ago, after GAT, my first idea was to join squirrel groups. But I discovered the materials of the OT levels on the Internet and realized that I was no more interested.
Then I studied many different spiritual schools and eventually found that Mahayana Buddhism is best suited to my needs.
There are even supernormal powers along that path, the equivalent of “OT powers”, but they are not the purpose, they just happen at certain levels.
The purpose is spiritual freedom, happiness and the elimination of suffering, for self and others, and for that you have to become a fully awakened Buddha.
Thought policing itself… Scientology’s gift to mankind.
“Registrars seek motionless targets” laughter
Regarding Tom Cruise I wonder if DM is having second thoughts about him moving to Clearwater. When and if he takes up full time residence the place might start crawling with paparazzi. Paparazzi meeting at noon in the Scientology “public park”.
I’ll see your Paparazzi and raise you one big coup.
How do you think The Monster might react if the faithful began to start talking and talking about Life under Tom as a choice to Life under The Monster?
What if we hired a plane and dropped some leaflets on The Faithful explaining how to help this change come true. Even better, what if we hired a sky-writing plane to write some messages in the sky overhead of The Faithful explaining to them how much better life would be under one Cool Tom Cat instead of a Crackpot Monster? Do you think that might be enough to get the Crazy Monster Man to do something that could land him in Prison? Wouldn’t that be just loverly?
I was thinking of something simpler like “camera wars” with the CoS sending out people to get pictures of the paparazzi traipsing around and the paparazzi in turn taking pictures of the CoS people. The paparazzi would probably win since they have better cameras.
There are many other exciting possibilities when Tom comes to town. Hubbard wanted to recruit celebrities to attract people into scientology but these days celebrities merely attract attention TO scientology. Tom living in or even just vacationing in Clearwater will keep scientology being mentioned in the tabloids.
Skyler:”What if we hired a plane and dropped some leaflets on The Faithful explaining how to help this change come true. Even better, what if we hired a sky-writing plane to write some messages in the sky overhead of The Faithful explaining to them how much better life would be under one Cool Tom Cat instead of a Crackpot Monster? Do you think that might be enough to get the Crazy Monster Man to do something that could land him in Prison? Wouldn’t that be just loverly?”
Personally, I’d prefer handing out Aftermath Foundation cards despite the harassment the scn “security” staff would give us. Every card given could be another chink in DM’s armor, one or more family members escaping, that many fewer willing to ‘die’ for their dwarfenführer; or ‘with’ him, perhaps, thinking “Flavoraide” or “Kool-aid”, to use the vernacular. FIRST, we give the cards to the security staff, using our most attractive “agents”. THEN we hit the folks in the parking lot — if any. scientologists can’t hardly afford cars or to commute in to the morgs unless they’re VERY new to the scene and still can afford to have their own place.
Just a quick question for RB: Are all adult male Scientologists bald nowadays?
Hey! Bald is in, baby!
Amen brother! So is old.
Deanoftruth:”Amen brother! So is old.”
At least, amongst those who survived long enough to GET old and not get TOO sick. Get too old or too sick and it sounds like they dump you on Social Services that scientology doesn’t support in any way — other than overloading it with those who can’t cut it any more.
I’ve got a full head of thick luxurious hair in the independent field, Dave.
Stop being a squirrel, Jon
Dave, I’d say that male Scientologists experience hair loss at about the same rate as WOGs.
Nevertheless, baldness is a desired condition for anyone attempting Exteriorization.
An innumerable amount of Scientologists have experienced the “Lost in the Reeds Phenomenon” while attempting to pop out of their heads.
This often results in having to purchase several expensive 12 hour Repair Auditing Intensives before the person Cognites that they did indeed Exteriorize from their head, but not far enough.
Getting caught in one’s own head of hair almost always puts a Thetan in a distressed state that can only be corrected by a Class XII auditor.
Thetans with female bodies almost always Exteriorize through their foreheads and rarely experience this phenomenon.
There’s a reason for that but I didn’t make it far enough Up the Bridge to find out what it was. (maybe next lifetime)
LRH was working on several Auditing Rundowns to remedy this but he was called to Target II before he could complete his work in this area,
This is somewhat true or whatever.
ML
RB
RB,
That sounds horribly uncomfortable!
Kat
Something tells me you made that up.
It’s because we’re all descended from Athena, who was born from out of her father Zeus’s forehead, and we all remember that as the escape route. Hubbard never said *those* Gods were implants, did he?
Bald is beautiful!
Kat LaRue:”Bald is beautiful!”
You’re SUCH a flirt, cutie!
Hmm, I’d almost think that RB had been reading the discussion about independent Scientology that developed out of Wednesday’s topic….
That discussion made me think, I don’t get the impression that many people who leave the CofS go to the indie world anymore, like they used to in times past. The indies seem to be a dwindling group of mostly old-timers who left in the last century, literally. Am I right about that?
For instance, the cohort who left in the last 10 to 15 years, most prominently former international management staffers and executives, seem to have briefly flirted with Scientology outside of the CofS, if at all, and if so then not as a close part of existing indie groups, then gave up and moved on. And why is that?
Does the existence of independent Scientology, and the possibility of continuing on the “bridge,” still play an important role in helping get people out, or has it outlived its usefulness in that regard?
All the minimally active, incomplete, derelict and defunct indie websites aren’t exactly the best advertisement for Scientology outside of the CofS. But they do present the idea of an alternative to the CofS, and point to a few independent auditors to be found.
Completely speculatively I would say that in the past it served as a stepping stone for WOGdom to many, the majority don’t stay in the indie groups as evidenced by their minuscule size. These days it might still serve a purpose as a potential, during the doubt/readjustment phase there is the internal argument “If I really want to keep going up the bridge there’s always the indies” meaning that there’s a way if one wishes.
The fact that most people instead seem to choose just remaining outside might be because of the multitude of information available once the ex is out and starts looking, over time determining that the value of continuing even outside the church is simply not worth it.
There have been 2 or more indie groups that tried to get services and websites using the term ‘scientology’. The Dror Center in Israel appears to be doing well, but I know of no other indie groups. I wonder if Captain Bill Robertson’s group is still going?
I suspect that most indie groups are just way stations for the road to Wogdom. But that is just my opinion based on what others have said. There are no concrete statistics to back up any opinion.
The “tech” doesn’t work at ANY of the “official” cult locations. So why would anyone think it would be different at any “unofficial” ones? The basic lie is it works. And until one sees this one will continue to have a foot stuck in the trap. Confront the truth, take personal responsibility and walk away from it all.
I just doesn’t work. It is all a scam and it matters not which company is “delivering” it.
The “official” explanation that CofS members are sold on, and even hooked on through indoctrination, is of course that the “tech” doesn’t work only if it’s not been applied properly – but is supposed to, when it is. So it’s hardly surprising that disaffected members might look for “tech” that worked outside the “church.”
The problem is, there have been indies since literally the first year of Dianetics, and no one has ever been able to get the “tech” to work outside of Hubbard’s organizations, either, other than in a few temporary, illusory situations that have always turned out to be a bust in the end. The continual failure of all manner of independent attempts over the better part of a century, to produce anything more than anecdotes and tales of “wins” that aren’t compelling enough to even hold their own groups together long-term, much less to attract outsiders and grow, is itself the best de facto proof that the tech doesn’t work, and can’t be made to.
So we can thank the indies for conclusively proving Scientology’s failure. I also think that former mission holder Sarge Gerbode’s later, properly researched and scientifically validated work in TIR, shows that at best if all the superfluous if not even potentially dangerous parts of the “tech” are stripped away, at the heart of it is a therapeutic approach that is just moderately effective compared to other talk therapies and trauma reduction techniques.
Peacemaker,
I’m not entirely sure what your intended message was, but I got one idea: That “the tech” was designed NOT to work when it was delivered properly. IMO, Ron never intended or *wanted* to produce any ‘clears’, as he wanted everyone to be his slaves, even the BTs freed from OT III – VIII. Those ‘elemental beings’ had value to him in Thelema once he had them under his control. ‘Course, he never did get them under his control and they made his body ‘stroke out’ quite literally.
Saying “Scientology doesn’t work” is all encompassing and definitional. What is necessary to say it worked? What if some of it worked and some of it didn’t? Sorting out true from false and fact from fiction is an individual matter. It can be done.
“What is necessary to say it worked? ”
Well, using logic that is pretty F’ing simple.
Proof that people actually obtain the listed abilities gained using the instructions in the “tech”.
Double blind scientific method.
It is what the criminal Hubtard refused to participate in because he knew his scam only worked to suck money out of suckers.
Wynski: BINGO!, but “Double blind scientific method.” wouldn’t work. For the “proper” tech to be applied, it had to be given to the right person. Otherwise, you’re talking about every process being given to everyone and seeing if anything good came of it for ANY of the participants,no matter what their initial state was. I guess that’d work about the same as DM’s method: giving the WRONG process to everyone and not caring/noticing that EVERYONE was getting worse.
Richard, saying “Scientology works” is similarly flawed, and actually even more fallacious – the burden is on those making the extraordinary claims, to provide extraordinary proof. “Scientology doesn’t work” is actually the logical and evidentiary default, along with “there’s no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow,” “pigs don’t fly,” and so on.
Scientology is supposed to be science – “an exact science, and its application is on the order of, but simpler than, engineering” as Hubbard put it. And science is no more an individual matter, than gravity is, though infamously a few people back in the 1960s, apparently under the influence of drugs, did attempt to treat gravity as such.
There’s actually been enough science done to nail it down reasonable well, though. Most of Hubbard’s theories about things like engrams and the body sweating out toxins, have been proven wrong.
Basic auditing can provide some of the benefits of talk therapy, however – and that’s it, the entirety of the extent to which it “works,” other than to perhaps provide some placebo effects. Scientology may occasionally produce some illusory effects such as “exteriorization,” or, more accurately, disassociation, but that comes at the risk of unethical and dangerous tinkering with the same mechanisms that can result in psychosis, or psychotic breakdowns, which it does in fact “work” to produce in some cases.
And of course it has “worked” to provide Hubbard and now Miscavige lives of luxury, and the intoxication of power over followers.
Richard, in fairness I should also note that there may well have been some additional benefit from getting together with like-minded people in an environment of supporting one anothers’ self improvement goals. There are studies that indicate, that people with involvements such as traditional church attendance do indeed experience various benefits.
But that has nothing to do with the “tech” or even the organization, really. I think that exes actually give away the credit to Hubbard and Scientology for that sort of “win,” when it was probably really something they created for themselves.
So you have the benefits of some talk therapy, and a support group or spiritual community. That’s probably all that really “works,” and as a wise ex taught, has more to do with the context (well-intentioned people getting together) than the content (Hubbard’s “work”).
Anyone can look at the subject as a whole and cherry pick the things that did NOT work. Saying NOTHING worked is a fundamentalist position and the only explanation is “brainwashed”.
Richard:””Anyone can look at the subject as a whole and cherry pick the things that did NOT work. Saying NOTHING worked is a fundamentalist position and the only explanation is “brainwashed”.
Then riddle me this: Name two things that DID work AS ADVERTISED.
As discussed the other day, the new Independent Reformed Church of Scientology (IRCS) was apparently formed as a sort of successor to the moribund First Independent Church of Scientology (FICS). The IRCS website lists fewer than 10 affiliated auditors around the world.
The iScientology website, which is connected to some other group, also lists a handful of auditors; there may be other similar ones, as well.
Then there are some other little groups and “orgs” in Washington state, St. Louis, and I think also in Illinois, that I’ve run across; I haven’t really made an attempt to track them all, except to note that there are only a few and they are all tiny, and seem to experience a fair bit of turnover and infighting.
The Dror center at least has an active website, which makes it unique in the indie world. It’s hard to tell how they’re really doing, though I don’t think they’re really expanding, and after picking up a bunch of disaffected Israeli members, seem to mostly serve former members from other places like Russia and Eastern Europe.
There are still Capt. Bill’s “Ron’s Orgs” and the Freezone in Europe, though I have trouble gauging their size, except to note that that little seems to be heard of them and their websites don’t appear very active, so I can only assume they are also fading away. The Ron’s Org Committee has about 2 dozen auditors and “orgs” listed and seems to have been updated a year ago, while FreeZone Auditors, last updated in 2016, has no entries:
http://www.ronsorg.com
http://www.freezoneauditors.org/
Captain Bill’s “RON’S Orgs” seem to be small but still active enough to have a handful of operating groups, mainly in Russia and Germany. I have a feeling that it’s much easier for a freezone group to operate above-the-table in countries that have a very poor relationship with the CoS.
I also think they’ve had less to worry about with issues like copyright – of “religious” materials! – that really only work in the US legal system. Plus I suspect being far from Scientology headquarters, it’s harder for the CofS to try to infiltrate and disrupt them, and local authorities are also less likely to tolerate such shennanigans.
But even without such “suppression,” and certain seeming advantages, the indies in Europe still don’t fare much better. And I think they were larger to begin with, so they could even have declined just as much proportionally.
No jimpjorps, it is actually easier and safer to run such groups in Hollyweird CA than in Russia. The CoS does NOT go after the Indie groups in the USA.
Wynski, it’s well documented that at least in the 1980s, Scientology went after indie groups both covertly with spies and infiltrators, overtly with lawsuits, and perhaps also in the grey area of trying to get them in trouble with law enforcement. Do we really know that they no longer do any of that?
The CofS is certainly still using those sort of tactics against others, with “Squirrel Busters” deployed against Marty Rathbun within the last decade, and an apparent recent attempt to infiltrate the Aftermath Foundation – and, again, to try to use law enforcement to get at them. Once more, it’s possible that we know relatively little of what’s going on with the indies, just because they’re now so tiny.
That was 30 YEARS AGO Peacemaker. WTF does that have to do with now? Indie groups in the US advertising FULL bridge services have existed for almost 20 years now with ZERO suits and attacks from the CoS.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT? You sound like that psycho poster known as marildi… Are you related?
Wynski, jeez! Scientology’s policy of trying to “bust up” squirrel groups is Hubbard-ordained and was carried out for decades in informal and extra-legal ways, so I’d just like to confirm if it has actually ended.
Peacemaker, you’d like it confirmed?
Sure, go find all the copyright infringement suits filed by the church against US squirrel groups in the last 15 years. They will be in Federal Court if they exist.
Once you search you will know. OR, you could simply contact the US groups that have been advertising in the open that they deliver OT levels and ask about the suits they have been served with over the lat 15 years.
Wynski, I’m referring to old-school harassment and infiltration, like Hubbard originally directed. They did that to indies like Mayo in the ’80s, in addition to the lawsuits that Scientology used for a while.
Does anyone really know if the indies still have trouble with that, or not?
“Wynski, I’m referring to old-school harassment and infiltration, like Hubbard originally directed. ”
It is F’ing simple Peacemaker! CONTACT THE PEOPLE OFFERING THE SERVICES AND FIND OUT!!!!!!!
Peacemaker,
My conclusions from asking myself those questions are: The 50-60’s dianetic and scientology auditors that could be successful with the techniques have gone, or left, and taken a skill-set that could not be replaced. The 60-70’s auditors learned a narrowed and fixed skill-set that required more agreement and cooperation from their clients for there to be benefits. From the 80’s forward the client (PC) was required to step onto a very narrow road and to go along it in lock-step with no deviation, with just so-so results. A few old-timer auditors still make it work, no new exes have any depth of understanding to make it work, and almost no one inside has the freedom to make the ‘tech’ workable for themselves. So, yes, the practice is going extinct.
ps: The auditors(counselors) who really grasped the materials for themselves, and who could make up their own ‘tech’ as they audited got kicked out by Hubbard, or later on by Miscavige, or just packed up and left the suppression of their abilities and skills.
There are also some like my family member, at Int Base for 45 years, who are emotionally and physically beaten down and though they were highly respected as auditors, they are now doing menial tasks as aging Sea Ogres.
jim, the auditors in the 60-70 ALSO did not deliver the abilities gained. Just as all auditors afterwards. Just another delusion passed around by “old timers”. It has never been “workable”. With or without the CoS supervision.
Jim, I think the old-time auditors were mostly just innately capable counselors who would have been effective with any other talk therapy modality or “tech,” as well. Besides personal experience, what I notice that stands out in others’ accounts of the auditors they really liked, are consistent characterizations that they were people who left their clients feeling listened to.
I think that also sort of points to one reason that more people nowadays just drop out entirely, that they’re in more because of social pressure and status-seeking. When they finally decide to get off the merry-go-round, they’re at a point of being done with the “tech” and have few actual positive feelings remaining about experiences like auditing.
And as I’ve written before, it looks to me as if auditing has slowly been made more rote and then finally de-emphasized under Miscavige, in good part due to trying to reduce risks such as people going “PTS Type III” psychotic. Once it gets past the basics of counseling, for instance attempting to audit or process people to get them to go “exterior” is actually disassociation, and that’s one step short of psychosis, so some are inevitably going to be be pushed over the edge – Lisa McPherson being the most tragic example.
I’m curious about how the indies handle the problem of “PTS Type III.” Perhaps they’re dealing with people already vetted enough to be particularly fit for Scientology auditing and processing, and possibly their auditors are those adept enough to recognize and handle problems before they become severe – but I find it hard to imagine that the issue hasn’t cropped up at times, even if they’re so small that we may not have heard about it.
Oh, and on top of it all there’s now the internet, where people can find out for themselves many of the sort of things that they used to have to go to indies to figure out or discover.
Thanks for your thoughts.
peacemaker,
Thanks. Your first paragraph says it. A good guide can use almost any ‘tech’ and get a happy client.
The truly mentally ill have NEVER been helped by hubbard’s processes. OK…. maybe 0.00001% got help.
Peacemaker, there are a lot of stages in the Pilgrim’s Progress out of Scientology. Some who leave are just sick of the Sea Org or mad at Dave Miscavige but still thoroughly attached to the Hubbard opus.
After a time, with exposure to the real world, cracks in the shell begin to appear. After a titanic struggle the newborn exe chick breaks free. Only to discover that the real world has hazards of its own.
Everybody’s journey is different. But if there was a truly helpful, active, vibrant alternate-Scientology-lite community it might serve as a way post for those on the way out.
Unfortunately a cleared cannibal is still a cannibal. Hubbard’s “insights” were just a way to fool people into giving him free labor and money. No matter how carefully you sift the muck it still gets your hands dirty.
Eventually just about everybody finally figures this out. But sometimes it takes decades. No need to argue and dispute with those still trying to make sense of it all, keep presenting the truth and eventually they will get it.
Throughout the 1970’s probably thousands of people, myself included, moved to Los Angeles to take advantage of the advanced training and processing not available at the outer orgs and missions. These days probably few “disenchanted” scientologists would relocate to be near an indie group.
A trend seems to be developing which is online scn courses and people experimenting with online auditing.
When I was having serious second thoughts 20 (?!) years ago, the Free Zone was a safe space to air my doubts and misgivings with people who had gone through their own personal trials with the COS. Discussions via a couple of news groups were usually open, stress-free, and without criticism or judgement.
Though I eventually rejected the “tech,” my position today is that anyone should be able to practice whatever religion they choose. While the COS would maintain that people like me who vigorously criticize them are anti-religious bigots, I would advise any current Scio that the Indies are a much preferable option if you want to continue your studies and activities. It’s not always realistic to expect a Scio to simply leave outright without having choices as to where to go from there.