Richard:”Current astronomical science says the universe is flat, maybe like a pancake and expanding at an accelerating rate.”
I’ve been going through a phase of trying to understand the “Flat Earthers”. What a sad, deluded bunch. Studying them is a natural extension of following scn’s stupidity — including their forays into anti-vaccination, which COULD be a natural outgrowth of Tubby’s rants about all doctors, drugs (including antibiotics), and any other evidence-based SCIENCE.
“I know a guy who routed out of the SO and years afterwards found out he was Fitness Boarded a year following that process”
The guy didn’t miss anything, but at least has some bit of closure, I suppose. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit to hear that I was “Fitness-boarded” out before or after I was kicked off the Flag Land Base. I certainly was no longer “fit” to put up with their BS and couldn’t have gotten through A-E as I never thought I owed them ANYthing. Flag got 5 years of my honest, best labor and in exchange, I had to do various courses to “qualify’ as crew. If it’s REQUIRED, I don’t owe you anything for completing it.
ValR:”the person who shared it with me said it was the most ridiculous ethics order he had ever read.”
That’s a high bar to best. None that I read were very literate, including the “findings and recommendations” of a Comm Ev I was on. In that case, the ‘crime’ was a couple having a perfectly normal date. As the assertions were presented, I was, like:”What’s the problem, here? Two single adults getting to know each other, in a way that would have been acceptable even to the Baptists in my neighborhood as I grew up. Come to think of it, one of the girls I enjoyed similar times with was one of the local Baptist Ministers’ daughter (we had 3 (or more) denominations of Baptist in our town.[ The stories of the preachers’ daughters were, in my experience, not exaggerated. After life-long repression, they sure learned fast.]
Another day another disconnection. Hubbard should have invented better amnesia tech (perhaps based on being swung by the feet around a pole), in order to erase unwanted (by COB) memories.
Well now, OF COURSE that’s the way it is NOW. If COS were to truly send those lovely goldenrod Declare letters out…..then COS would HAVE to admit that MEMBERSHIP IS ON A STEADY DECLINE & wouldn’t be able to COUNT those “still undeclared or UTR” as still IN COS.
Whoever thought of that as a way to show COS is still growing is a genius….i.e. out for over a decade, never received a golden rod letter…so I AM STIL LCOUNTED as being IN & an “active member” although I haven’t been “in” for…..decades???
Balletlady, YOU can call yourself whatever you want, As long as they have the records, they’ll count you as “current”. I’m TRYING to get myself DEADFILED, replying (on the rare occasions I do) with a bit of ARC as I call the writer an idiot somewhat politely, then increasingly call DM the worst SQUIRREL and SP scientology has ever experienced, and that “survival’ RD having only one possible EP:”””I SURVIVED!”, then I mention I was kicked out of Flag, and I thought scn 40 years ago and haven’t set foot on an org or franchise since. HOW can I thereby be a prospect for anything: I WAS a flag-trained Class V (in their screwed-up training and ‘clear’. What can any org in existence offer me above that? I’ve sSEEN the OT levels and, after a good laugh, found nothing of value in them. “Go around and *count8 people to a win”. EREALLY!? Xenu… REALLY!? Incident 2 couldn’t have happened when nd where Tubby placed it. Those islands&volcanos just dodn’t exist. The Atlantic ocean didn’t even exist then, much less the billions of humanoid bodies which were supposedly blown up. [And where did all those bodies go, anyway? No one’s seen hide nor hair of them since.
Ballettlady: If they ‘count’ anything at all before making up their “membership” numbers, they can count anything they want. I’m sure they’re counting every DirecTV convertor box as another family which has received the bounty which is CSN TV, whether DirecTV reports the channel having been tuned to or not. DM’s BIG (so to speak) into counting POTENTIAL lately. Pretty soon, his numbers will include every computer or smart phone ever sold, as they COULD tune in and receive the PR pieces, never mind that there are pretty accurate “number of views” counters on each video, which tend to read ZERO on the useless channel’s web ‘channel’.
I was given an SP declare while on the RPF, did my A-E steps, got back in good standing and routed onto the basics. One fine day, I was pulled off course by the ethics officer and told that I still owed money to one of the orgs – it was apparently overlooked! I was then told I had to pay that freeloader debt to be allowed back in the course room. By this time the cognitive dissonance had reached a fever pitch. I went home, googled Scientology and spent hundreds of hours reading articles and watching videos. Needless to say, I was done.
Well Scribe, you have to admit that you were dealing with a very in-KSW effective ethics officer. They got you through the Doubt Formula lickity-split!
HOW can they say that ANYONE “blew”? It’s gotta be fairly simple to go UTR these days. There are many meaningless ‘events’ that many/most still-ins avoid for obvious reasons. If you’re not signed up for course or auditing, just staying away from the org and avoiding their phone calls would be sufficient. And if you were signed up for service, finishing it up and begging off on the next one is easy enough if you’re upset enough. Those who actually LOOK will see that losing scientology is a GOOD THING™, likely to improve your spirits and finances pretty immediately. What with DM demanding his “donations with no promise of anything delivered, what’s the difference between spending big bucks and receiving nothing and paying nothing and receiving… NOTHING? Lots of bux in your pocket, not in Davey’s
Jere – I also don’t get what he’s saying. but just as an aside if the universe is a sphere, which it isn’t, then if you look straight ahead “eventually” you might be looking at the back of your head. Current astronomical science says the universe is flat, maybe like a pancake and expanding at an accelerating rate.
Re-reading, I believe they SHOULD weed out those old ‘Impact’ mags. They were useless then, they’re even more useless now and don’t even make good fire-starting material, not that anyone in the Northern Hemisphere seems to need more heat these days.
MarcAnon, “If it ain’t in writing, it ain’t so”, so if they don’t write it down, there’s no liability; nothing happened, except in the minds of the DBs they’ve ‘handled’ over the years. It’d be interesting if Mike, Leah, et al, who have been TOLD by scn that they were kicked out for such-and-such would legally challenge scn’s assertions; prove ANYthing to, for instance, defend against a libel/slander suit brought against them for the scurrilous claims they or their lawyers have spread in the world to D/A their efforts to blow the whistle against scn/DM.
I was kicked off the Land Base (and out of scn, as far as I was concerned, in August 1980. I never DID figure out WHY they let me go, never got a copy of anything ‘legal’ or my ‘freeloader’ debt, but WAS called up by the ex-girlfriend some time later to get me to pay down the supposed ‘debt’ that she could read but I couldn’t. NOT that I ever was a ‘freeloader’, of course. My “crime” was to get depressed by the insanity of S.O. existence (hardly a “life”).
Already, there fewer people to connect WITH than they (technically, WE) are required to disconnect from. OF the two groups, I find those who are OUT to be more fun to be around, go grab a beer with, etc. At least then, we’re not constantly being badgered for money for this or that new scheme.
I know a guy who routed out of the SO and years afterwards found out he was Fitness Boarded a year following that process. He told me that he followed the routing out process completely and then left with only a Freeloaders Debt that he paid off a couple years later. The most interesting aspect is he was NEVER invited to testify or even attend his Fitness Board. Hell! He didn’t even learn of it until about 20 years later. And I wonder what the hell might have been the purpose of that Fitness Board! He’d already left legally and by following all required procedures. WTF???? Anyone got an idea?
Thanks Mike. Makes sense if the purpose is to set forth his requirements for returning. Especially since the dude was the AG Flag for a bit.
But honestly I kind of thought maybe the FB was more of an effort to “document” how “unfit” the dude was so if he ever “came out” about all his experiences the cult could “dead agent” him.
I found out what my “ethics order” said in 2011 by someone who read it after I left. I left SO and GO in 1978 and scientology in 1980. The contents made me bust out laughing. Even the person who shared it with me said it was the most ridiculous ethics order he had ever read.
Mentioned what you said to my friend and he told me there was a gal named Val in the Flag GO with him back then. Is this you?
Totally get busting out laughing after reading that ethics order. I read one a few years back about a couple who had gone to court for back child support issues without first getting IJC’s “permission”. It found them both guilty of creating a public flap (at least to the extent that court documents are available) and effectively punished them both for their action. WTF? The cult can obstruct justice and get away with it???
Thank you very much for answering ValR. I’ll pass the info along but realize you are not the Val he knew. From all he’s told me about his time in the GO I feel a bit of sympathy for you both.
Glenn, what’s “legal” matters little. If a big enough
“cheese” wants yo out, you’re out, no matter what the policies say. AND if the Munchkin® wants to lock you up and throw away the key, he can just create an SP ‘hole’ where he can toss anyone who annoys him for as long as DM wants to do it, no policy to follow, no way to appeal the ‘decision’ (other than blowing and “losing your “Eternity”™).Hell, even Shelly, who would know the score better than anyone, would be unlikely to ‘blow’ as she’s been thoroughly beaten down, from what I surmise. I say that because there is at least one reliable-sounding report of her being out in public at the local town. If she wanted to leave, she could go to the nearest cop and ask for assistance as a kidnapping victim. That could peel off any “handler” with her pretty effectively. She seems savvy enough to pull that off if she weren’t resigned to her situation, which seems the case.
I’ve had personal encounters with the diminutive midget and trust me if he had tried any of his power shit on me the little MFer would have been tasked with searching for new meat bod to replace the one I’d taken. I honestly cannot imagine how Shelly allows all the tiny twerp has done so far. Truly!
Glenn, I only met him once, JUST after he blew from 10th Grade. He didn’t seem inclined to want to get physical with me as he KNEW I was in the right and I towered not only the 10 well-muscled inches of my body’s height over him, but was standing a step higher than the floor he was standing on. As well, I’m told I have a pretty effective “angry” face; enough to scare away those who weren’t totally committed to the path of crossing me. Still, it’s good that he didn’t try anything, as I really am at heart a pacifist from growing up amongst so many Quakers and other non-violent, turn-the-other-cheek sects.
C’mon, J.L. Do you really think they’re going to let Shelly Miscavige “go to the nearest cop?’ Never happen! She’s too dangerous to the cherch. She may be thorougly brainwashed, but they can’t take the chance that she might start “singing” some day.
bixntram, I doubt they’d “let” Shelly do anything if they could, but the report I read had her walking freely around town doing her errands. If she were to simply walk up to a cop or call one over, there’s nothing a handler could do to stop her. If she says, “that guy’s holding me against my will.”the cop’s first action would be to protect her from him, and the handler would have a tough time overcoming her first assertion that she didn’t WANT to go anywhere with him. IF Shelly isn’t as beaten down as I believe, and she really wants out, I think she’s smart and calculating enough to arrange circumstances in her favor.
This is just me and my conjecture is controversial, but I believe that Shelly does NOT want out (of course she is brainwashed) and is OK with where she is. I don’t believe she is being mistreated or in any way mentally or physically abused – NOT because the Dwarf is incapable of that, or wouldn’t like to whet his sadism on her if he could get away with it – but because in Shelly he has a tiger by the tail. He can’t keep her and he can’t let her go. Too many people are watching out for Shelly. The LAPD is also on the line as having given the thumbs up about her being OK. The Dwarf CANNOT mistreat her. He MUST keep her alive and well fed, I believe. Her untimely death, in her 50s would be the death of the cult. Now, as to her viewpoint, I’d say, brainwashed as she is, she’s content to be doing what she’s doing, and to be married in name only to a man she knows is a psychopath. Following him around with bandaids and Benadryl to clean people up after he beats them. Having to have sex with this guy at night, after a day of listening to him rant and scream…I’m of the opinion that she’s relieved to be free of all that and thankful that Lou is taking care of him now. And I believe that along with being relieved that she no longer has to be around all this debilitating negativity, she also believes that what she’s doing is important work for LRH. That’s my viewpoint. I think the Dwarf is terrified at the thought of Shelly dying. I think she is consigned to living out the rest of her days doing what she’s doing with the plates, etc. and that she believes this is her function and her hat now, and if she had the opportunity to be free she would say she wants to stay.
The first step for anyone is the desire to leave. Because there is always a way out if you are determined enough.
But that doesn’t mean that those who don’t think they want out are a) happy about their circumstance (think there is no viable alternative in the “wog” world or the consequences are so dire should they leave) or b) aren’t living in a state of delusion or Stockholm syndrome.
Possibly I painted too rosy a picture of Shelly’s state of mind, which has to be rooted in delusion or Stockholm syndrome, without a doubt.
Actual HAPPINESS is impossible for anyone operating in her state of mind.
Perhaps I should have conveyed the concept of her being LESS MISERABLE, less stressed, less anxiety ridden, etc., compared to what she was experiencing in her former life with her husband.
As you point out, it all starts with the desire to leave.
Peabodysays
The SO probably considered him too old, so retired him.
RB. Typo alert.. the sentence says “I think COB operates on the Aesthetics Band”. Considering all the whiskey the little dork consumes it should read Anesthetics.
Love your work and start every Friday anxiously awaiting it appearance on Mike’s site.
On a round planet can everyone bump on themselves in their own butt. “Them” disappear for the only apperance “we”.
On a cleared planet without any nearby planets to send critics, psychs and communists to will boom RPF camps. The way to hell can be happy but the arrival isn’t so funny.
My former step-mother was told by other people she was declared but never heard anything about it from the CoS. She says she still considers herself a member in good standing.
SP Declares stopped being issued because of Libel concerns I believe. Most of the stuff written was not factual and thus indefensible if the target sued for defamation of character.
I also think that’s the case, Wynski. So now instead of a declare on goldenrod per policy, they just do a massive whispering campaign about you to get your friends to disconnect from you without ever having read a word of a declare. So now they are guilty of doing whispering campaigns which LRH said not to do in the PTS SP materials. Members of the church violate their own scripture daily, and then call us the squirrels.
All joking aside, I think the reason they have stopped issuing actual declare orders is probably that distributing orders the would shock those who remain at how many good people have been declared over nonsense in recent years. Much better to tell people that they blew – then those still-ins don’t start to question why good people are being declared, they just disconnect to keep suppression off their lines.
I suppose also that if there’s no actual declare, then they could recover the person later if it were possible, and if that person were a whale it might be desirable to mend fences.
Even simpler, written declares are physical evidence that Scientology enforces extreme shunning and breaks up families with impunity. Orally conveyed instructions, or other evanescent communications, exist only as a rumor. It has no official source and responsibility cannot be assigned.
You wrote: “… I think the reason they have stopped issuing actual declare orders is probably that distributing orders the would shock those who remain at how many good people have been declared …”
I remember seeing a video by Tory Christman(I think?) where she speculates that this may be the reason – the sheer number of declares. She recalls when she would go in and the goldenrod papers were starting to take up most of a wall back when she was as scientologist. Now? They’d probably cover all the walls at every org and then some. You’d have to start hanging them from strings from the ceiling like some sort of macabre mobile. You know if i was in charge of decorating, i’d arrange hangning them so that, seen from the entrance, they would appear to spell out “RUN.”
ValR:”how do you write an SP Declare that says “we declared her because she liked a photo of a dog on Tom DeVocht’s Facebook feed”?”
They don’t. They simply say”continued connection to SPs”, or some such generality. Remember that SP:s (and sociopaths) don’t talk in specifics; just generalities.
MarcAnon, I seem to remember hearing about an issue which LISTED many declared members. I was off-lines by that time, so didn’t read it until I was firmly in place with the “outs”, reading the “ASC” sites regularly. It seemed responsible for some number of people leaving because they couldn’t believe what they read could be true, couldn’t believe that so MANY of the people they could identify on the list COULD have been suppressive. In my case, having dealt with David Mayo, I couldn’t believe one word of what was identifiable in that word salad issued about his supposed transgressions’ [“Tale of a squirrel” was it?] It was OBVIOUS that Tubby didn’t compose that thing, and that the person the issue described was not David Mayo. Had I read that while “in”, I could only have laughed at it. Once I was out and figured out he’d set up his AAC to deliver scn, I MIGHT have moved to his creation, had I felt the need to receive any further scn. Compared to what DM’s carved out of what Tubby (and David Mayo) built, the AAC sounds like what I’d joined scn for. It STILL couldn’t deliver what Tubby promised, but at least it wasn’t going so far off the rails as Davey-boy did from the beginning.
“It was OBVIOUS that Tubby didn’t compose that thing, and that the person the issue described was not David Mayo. ”
No jere, El Con Tubbolard DID order that written about Mayo. Like all sociopathic leaders Tubbo shot people when they got too popular with the sheeple, being afraid they would take over and have him locked up like he deserved.
Jere – Here’s a recent interesting thread on the Ex Scientologist Message Board regarding the ever changing definition of “Clear”. It includes an article written by David Mayo in 1989. I noted that at the time he wrote the article he was still giving credence to the Hubbard/Scientology reactive mind/engram theory.
After I split scientology I briefly considered continuing scientology at Mayo’s Advanced Ability Center in Santa Barbara since I didn’t have any problem with The Tek at the time, only the price increases. It wasn’t long after I split that I realized the “We know everything about everything. We’re right and everyone else is wrong.” presentation by scientology meant I had been in a cult.
Perhaps there is a run on goldenrod paper, with all the people they really did declare in the last 10-20 years.
We need to raise critical funds to buy more goldenrod paper immediately! Let’s have a pirate costume dinner, with balloon animals for the kids, a bouncy house, and a magic show to raise money for the goldenrod project. We can shatter suppression and deal an effective blow to the SPs who are running wild in our field. Call the org and confirm your attendance today!
Otherles, the pizza’s a good idea, and eating it actually achieves something of value.
Once they got the goldenrod issues printed up, what next? Should they actually send them to the subjects? that would open them up to a slew of defamation suits, and likely would drastically shrink the “active” membership numbers. Who knows how many they carry as ‘in good standing’ actually were declared in a fit of the “kid’s” rage? How many would find out that they shouldn’t be attending course or going into session tomorrow? How many who want to be members who find out their SP status WELL after the ‘fact’?
I suspect it’d be a large number compared to the “active rolls as how is DM supposed to remember everyone he’s kicked out during his drunken rages?
They just need to require that the SPs provide their own goldenrod and create their own SP declare on their way out the door. Problem solved. I’ve been waiting almost 40 years for my declare. *sigh* When oh when will I become one of the Special People.
Well, at least in the pics I glanced at, he’s wearing a wedding band of some sort, not that his WIFE would know about that after all those years he’s separated her from him. AND of course, “Lou” seems not to care about such niceties. She seems to have taken over all Shelly’s perqs without having any legal rights, not that DM would EVER legally divorce Shelly, since that would put him at some risk. Better she die in unsuspicious circumstances working at the job she loved, safeguarding Tubby’s materials for all time.
I forgot to say: If the Flat Earthers get a hold of the flat universe hypotheses, they’ll say “SEE? It’s ALL FLAT.” Stupid IDIOTS!
Richard:”Current astronomical science says the universe is flat, maybe like a pancake and expanding at an accelerating rate.”
I’ve been going through a phase of trying to understand the “Flat Earthers”. What a sad, deluded bunch. Studying them is a natural extension of following scn’s stupidity — including their forays into anti-vaccination, which COULD be a natural outgrowth of Tubby’s rants about all doctors, drugs (including antibiotics), and any other evidence-based SCIENCE.
Edit:
“Its hard to listen to their dismayingly uninformed opinions with a show of politeness and respect.”
“I know a guy who routed out of the SO and years afterwards found out he was Fitness Boarded a year following that process”
The guy didn’t miss anything, but at least has some bit of closure, I suppose. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit to hear that I was “Fitness-boarded” out before or after I was kicked off the Flag Land Base. I certainly was no longer “fit” to put up with their BS and couldn’t have gotten through A-E as I never thought I owed them ANYthing. Flag got 5 years of my honest, best labor and in exchange, I had to do various courses to “qualify’ as crew. If it’s REQUIRED, I don’t owe you anything for completing it.
ValR:”the person who shared it with me said it was the most ridiculous ethics order he had ever read.”
That’s a high bar to best. None that I read were very literate, including the “findings and recommendations” of a Comm Ev I was on. In that case, the ‘crime’ was a couple having a perfectly normal date. As the assertions were presented, I was, like:”What’s the problem, here? Two single adults getting to know each other, in a way that would have been acceptable even to the Baptists in my neighborhood as I grew up. Come to think of it, one of the girls I enjoyed similar times with was one of the local Baptist Ministers’ daughter (we had 3 (or more) denominations of Baptist in our town.[ The stories of the preachers’ daughters were, in my experience, not exaggerated. After life-long repression, they sure learned fast.]
Another day another disconnection. Hubbard should have invented better amnesia tech (perhaps based on being swung by the feet around a pole), in order to erase unwanted (by COB) memories.
Of course they do not issue Declare orders anymore. They realize that it is a badge of honor, something to brag about to your friends and family.
No Declares on Goldenrod paper seen in HOW LONG?
Well now, OF COURSE that’s the way it is NOW. If COS were to truly send those lovely goldenrod Declare letters out…..then COS would HAVE to admit that MEMBERSHIP IS ON A STEADY DECLINE & wouldn’t be able to COUNT those “still undeclared or UTR” as still IN COS.
Whoever thought of that as a way to show COS is still growing is a genius….i.e. out for over a decade, never received a golden rod letter…so I AM STIL LCOUNTED as being IN & an “active member” although I haven’t been “in” for…..decades???
Balletlady, YOU can call yourself whatever you want, As long as they have the records, they’ll count you as “current”. I’m TRYING to get myself DEADFILED, replying (on the rare occasions I do) with a bit of ARC as I call the writer an idiot somewhat politely, then increasingly call DM the worst SQUIRREL and SP scientology has ever experienced, and that “survival’ RD having only one possible EP:”””I SURVIVED!”, then I mention I was kicked out of Flag, and I thought scn 40 years ago and haven’t set foot on an org or franchise since. HOW can I thereby be a prospect for anything: I WAS a flag-trained Class V (in their screwed-up training and ‘clear’. What can any org in existence offer me above that? I’ve sSEEN the OT levels and, after a good laugh, found nothing of value in them. “Go around and *count8 people to a win”. EREALLY!? Xenu… REALLY!? Incident 2 couldn’t have happened when nd where Tubby placed it. Those islands&volcanos just dodn’t exist. The Atlantic ocean didn’t even exist then, much less the billions of humanoid bodies which were supposedly blown up. [And where did all those bodies go, anyway? No one’s seen hide nor hair of them since.
Ballettlady: If they ‘count’ anything at all before making up their “membership” numbers, they can count anything they want. I’m sure they’re counting every DirecTV convertor box as another family which has received the bounty which is CSN TV, whether DirecTV reports the channel having been tuned to or not. DM’s BIG (so to speak) into counting POTENTIAL lately. Pretty soon, his numbers will include every computer or smart phone ever sold, as they COULD tune in and receive the PR pieces, never mind that there are pretty accurate “number of views” counters on each video, which tend to read ZERO on the useless channel’s web ‘channel’.
I was given an SP declare while on the RPF, did my A-E steps, got back in good standing and routed onto the basics. One fine day, I was pulled off course by the ethics officer and told that I still owed money to one of the orgs – it was apparently overlooked! I was then told I had to pay that freeloader debt to be allowed back in the course room. By this time the cognitive dissonance had reached a fever pitch. I went home, googled Scientology and spent hundreds of hours reading articles and watching videos. Needless to say, I was done.
Good for you Scribe!
Thanks Sarah.
VWD Scribe….we are happy you are out and on our team! You are talented and I love your posts.
Thanks so much.
Well Scribe, you have to admit that you were dealing with a very in-KSW effective ethics officer. They got you through the Doubt Formula lickity-split!
Good for you, scribe. Seems everyone, including us here, “won” from that set of decisions.
HOW can they say that ANYONE “blew”? It’s gotta be fairly simple to go UTR these days. There are many meaningless ‘events’ that many/most still-ins avoid for obvious reasons. If you’re not signed up for course or auditing, just staying away from the org and avoiding their phone calls would be sufficient. And if you were signed up for service, finishing it up and begging off on the next one is easy enough if you’re upset enough. Those who actually LOOK will see that losing scientology is a GOOD THING™, likely to improve your spirits and finances pretty immediately. What with DM demanding his “donations with no promise of anything delivered, what’s the difference between spending big bucks and receiving nothing and paying nothing and receiving… NOTHING? Lots of bux in your pocket, not in Davey’s
Roger:
“On a round planet can everyone bump on themselves in their own butt. “Them” disappear for the only apperance “we”.”
What was that supposed to mean, Roger? I come up with nothing.
Jere – I also don’t get what he’s saying. but just as an aside if the universe is a sphere, which it isn’t, then if you look straight ahead “eventually” you might be looking at the back of your head. Current astronomical science says the universe is flat, maybe like a pancake and expanding at an accelerating rate.
Re-reading, I believe they SHOULD weed out those old ‘Impact’ mags. They were useless then, they’re even more useless now and don’t even make good fire-starting material, not that anyone in the Northern Hemisphere seems to need more heat these days.
Glenn, I like your “Anesthetics Band”. Are they playing anywhere?
jere, always in my mind just like all the other bands from the 60s.
Soon there will be no one to order to disconnect from someone.
MarcAnon, “If it ain’t in writing, it ain’t so”, so if they don’t write it down, there’s no liability; nothing happened, except in the minds of the DBs they’ve ‘handled’ over the years. It’d be interesting if Mike, Leah, et al, who have been TOLD by scn that they were kicked out for such-and-such would legally challenge scn’s assertions; prove ANYthing to, for instance, defend against a libel/slander suit brought against them for the scurrilous claims they or their lawyers have spread in the world to D/A their efforts to blow the whistle against scn/DM.
I was kicked off the Land Base (and out of scn, as far as I was concerned, in August 1980. I never DID figure out WHY they let me go, never got a copy of anything ‘legal’ or my ‘freeloader’ debt, but WAS called up by the ex-girlfriend some time later to get me to pay down the supposed ‘debt’ that she could read but I couldn’t. NOT that I ever was a ‘freeloader’, of course. My “crime” was to get depressed by the insanity of S.O. existence (hardly a “life”).
Already, there fewer people to connect WITH than they (technically, WE) are required to disconnect from. OF the two groups, I find those who are OUT to be more fun to be around, go grab a beer with, etc. At least then, we’re not constantly being badgered for money for this or that new scheme.
I know a guy who routed out of the SO and years afterwards found out he was Fitness Boarded a year following that process. He told me that he followed the routing out process completely and then left with only a Freeloaders Debt that he paid off a couple years later. The most interesting aspect is he was NEVER invited to testify or even attend his Fitness Board. Hell! He didn’t even learn of it until about 20 years later. And I wonder what the hell might have been the purpose of that Fitness Board! He’d already left legally and by following all required procedures. WTF???? Anyone got an idea?
To dictate his “re-entry” program
Thanks Mike. Makes sense if the purpose is to set forth his requirements for returning. Especially since the dude was the AG Flag for a bit.
But honestly I kind of thought maybe the FB was more of an effort to “document” how “unfit” the dude was so if he ever “came out” about all his experiences the cult could “dead agent” him.
Glenn, just so you know, a FB does not require an interview. It’s not like committee of evidence and board of investigations.
I found out what my “ethics order” said in 2011 by someone who read it after I left. I left SO and GO in 1978 and scientology in 1980. The contents made me bust out laughing. Even the person who shared it with me said it was the most ridiculous ethics order he had ever read.
Val,
Mentioned what you said to my friend and he told me there was a gal named Val in the Flag GO with him back then. Is this you?
Totally get busting out laughing after reading that ethics order. I read one a few years back about a couple who had gone to court for back child support issues without first getting IJC’s “permission”. It found them both guilty of creating a public flap (at least to the extent that court documents are available) and effectively punished them both for their action. WTF? The cult can obstruct justice and get away with it???
Glenn, I was in GO in LA. Our berthing was 1811 Tamarind. We were across the street from the Manor, now CC.
Thank you very much for answering ValR. I’ll pass the info along but realize you are not the Val he knew. From all he’s told me about his time in the GO I feel a bit of sympathy for you both.
Val, we’re you there for the FBI raid in 1977?
Glenn, that isn’t obstruction of Justice. The CoS has no authority over the court system.
Val, if you were there for the raid, I would love to talk to you as I’m working on a film project. Mike can give you my email.
Glenn, what’s “legal” matters little. If a big enough
“cheese” wants yo out, you’re out, no matter what the policies say. AND if the Munchkin® wants to lock you up and throw away the key, he can just create an SP ‘hole’ where he can toss anyone who annoys him for as long as DM wants to do it, no policy to follow, no way to appeal the ‘decision’ (other than blowing and “losing your “Eternity”™).Hell, even Shelly, who would know the score better than anyone, would be unlikely to ‘blow’ as she’s been thoroughly beaten down, from what I surmise. I say that because there is at least one reliable-sounding report of her being out in public at the local town. If she wanted to leave, she could go to the nearest cop and ask for assistance as a kidnapping victim. That could peel off any “handler” with her pretty effectively. She seems savvy enough to pull that off if she weren’t resigned to her situation, which seems the case.
jere,
I’ve had personal encounters with the diminutive midget and trust me if he had tried any of his power shit on me the little MFer would have been tasked with searching for new meat bod to replace the one I’d taken. I honestly cannot imagine how Shelly allows all the tiny twerp has done so far. Truly!
That’s the point.
Deviant Miscarriage only beats on people who won’t fight back. When he hit someone who actually looked ready to fight back, he was shocked.
He can only threaten people who believe he is doing what’s necessary for the greater good of all mankind and the universe.
Pretty much like all bullies. He only targets those who cannot fight back. And passes his abuse off as “strength”. Sad.
Glenn, I only met him once, JUST after he blew from 10th Grade. He didn’t seem inclined to want to get physical with me as he KNEW I was in the right and I towered not only the 10 well-muscled inches of my body’s height over him, but was standing a step higher than the floor he was standing on. As well, I’m told I have a pretty effective “angry” face; enough to scare away those who weren’t totally committed to the path of crossing me. Still, it’s good that he didn’t try anything, as I really am at heart a pacifist from growing up amongst so many Quakers and other non-violent, turn-the-other-cheek sects.
C’mon, J.L. Do you really think they’re going to let Shelly Miscavige “go to the nearest cop?’ Never happen! She’s too dangerous to the cherch. She may be thorougly brainwashed, but they can’t take the chance that she might start “singing” some day.
bixntram, I doubt they’d “let” Shelly do anything if they could, but the report I read had her walking freely around town doing her errands. If she were to simply walk up to a cop or call one over, there’s nothing a handler could do to stop her. If she says, “that guy’s holding me against my will.”the cop’s first action would be to protect her from him, and the handler would have a tough time overcoming her first assertion that she didn’t WANT to go anywhere with him. IF Shelly isn’t as beaten down as I believe, and she really wants out, I think she’s smart and calculating enough to arrange circumstances in her favor.
This is just me and my conjecture is controversial, but I believe that Shelly does NOT want out (of course she is brainwashed) and is OK with where she is. I don’t believe she is being mistreated or in any way mentally or physically abused – NOT because the Dwarf is incapable of that, or wouldn’t like to whet his sadism on her if he could get away with it – but because in Shelly he has a tiger by the tail. He can’t keep her and he can’t let her go. Too many people are watching out for Shelly. The LAPD is also on the line as having given the thumbs up about her being OK. The Dwarf CANNOT mistreat her. He MUST keep her alive and well fed, I believe. Her untimely death, in her 50s would be the death of the cult. Now, as to her viewpoint, I’d say, brainwashed as she is, she’s content to be doing what she’s doing, and to be married in name only to a man she knows is a psychopath. Following him around with bandaids and Benadryl to clean people up after he beats them. Having to have sex with this guy at night, after a day of listening to him rant and scream…I’m of the opinion that she’s relieved to be free of all that and thankful that Lou is taking care of him now. And I believe that along with being relieved that she no longer has to be around all this debilitating negativity, she also believes that what she’s doing is important work for LRH. That’s my viewpoint. I think the Dwarf is terrified at the thought of Shelly dying. I think she is consigned to living out the rest of her days doing what she’s doing with the plates, etc. and that she believes this is her function and her hat now, and if she had the opportunity to be free she would say she wants to stay.
The first step for anyone is the desire to leave. Because there is always a way out if you are determined enough.
But that doesn’t mean that those who don’t think they want out are a) happy about their circumstance (think there is no viable alternative in the “wog” world or the consequences are so dire should they leave) or b) aren’t living in a state of delusion or Stockholm syndrome.
I hear you, Mike.
Possibly I painted too rosy a picture of Shelly’s state of mind, which has to be rooted in delusion or Stockholm syndrome, without a doubt.
Actual HAPPINESS is impossible for anyone operating in her state of mind.
Perhaps I should have conveyed the concept of her being LESS MISERABLE, less stressed, less anxiety ridden, etc., compared to what she was experiencing in her former life with her husband.
As you point out, it all starts with the desire to leave.
The SO probably considered him too old, so retired him.
MarcAnon, It’s ALL about the money, one way or the other.
RB. Typo alert.. the sentence says “I think COB operates on the Aesthetics Band”. Considering all the whiskey the little dork consumes it should read Anesthetics.
Love your work and start every Friday anxiously awaiting it appearance on Mike’s site.
On a round planet can everyone bump on themselves in their own butt. “Them” disappear for the only apperance “we”.
On a cleared planet without any nearby planets to send critics, psychs and communists to will boom RPF camps. The way to hell can be happy but the arrival isn’t so funny.
Roger, after DM’s version of the RPF, Hell would be a refreshing change. As ridiculous as it was, Davey-boy could and did make it worse.
It was only two measly planets–hardly worth mentioning.
LOL!
It’s a shame you blew up the front porch of eternity on those planets. How are we ever going to get into eternity now.😂😳🙄
I’m a back door man.
My former step-mother was told by other people she was declared but never heard anything about it from the CoS. She says she still considers herself a member in good standing.
SP Declares stopped being issued because of Libel concerns I believe. Most of the stuff written was not factual and thus indefensible if the target sued for defamation of character.
I also think that’s the case, Wynski. So now instead of a declare on goldenrod per policy, they just do a massive whispering campaign about you to get your friends to disconnect from you without ever having read a word of a declare. So now they are guilty of doing whispering campaigns which LRH said not to do in the PTS SP materials. Members of the church violate their own scripture daily, and then call us the squirrels.
Right Cindy. If it isn’t hypocritical, it isn’t scientology.
All joking aside, I think the reason they have stopped issuing actual declare orders is probably that distributing orders the would shock those who remain at how many good people have been declared over nonsense in recent years. Much better to tell people that they blew – then those still-ins don’t start to question why good people are being declared, they just disconnect to keep suppression off their lines.
I suppose also that if there’s no actual declare, then they could recover the person later if it were possible, and if that person were a whale it might be desirable to mend fences.
Even simpler, written declares are physical evidence that Scientology enforces extreme shunning and breaks up families with impunity. Orally conveyed instructions, or other evanescent communications, exist only as a rumor. It has no official source and responsibility cannot be assigned.
You wrote: “… I think the reason they have stopped issuing actual declare orders is probably that distributing orders the would shock those who remain at how many good people have been declared …”
I remember seeing a video by Tory Christman(I think?) where she speculates that this may be the reason – the sheer number of declares. She recalls when she would go in and the goldenrod papers were starting to take up most of a wall back when she was as scientologist. Now? They’d probably cover all the walls at every org and then some. You’d have to start hanging them from strings from the ceiling like some sort of macabre mobile. You know if i was in charge of decorating, i’d arrange hangning them so that, seen from the entrance, they would appear to spell out “RUN.”
@MarcAnon, true, how do you write an SP Declare that says “we declared her because she liked a photo of a dog on Tom DeVocht’s Facebook feed”?
You’re right Val – it would at least have to be a cat video. 😂
ValR:”how do you write an SP Declare that says “we declared her because she liked a photo of a dog on Tom DeVocht’s Facebook feed”?”
They don’t. They simply say”continued connection to SPs”, or some such generality. Remember that SP:s (and sociopaths) don’t talk in specifics; just generalities.
MarcAnon, I seem to remember hearing about an issue which LISTED many declared members. I was off-lines by that time, so didn’t read it until I was firmly in place with the “outs”, reading the “ASC” sites regularly. It seemed responsible for some number of people leaving because they couldn’t believe what they read could be true, couldn’t believe that so MANY of the people they could identify on the list COULD have been suppressive. In my case, having dealt with David Mayo, I couldn’t believe one word of what was identifiable in that word salad issued about his supposed transgressions’ [“Tale of a squirrel” was it?] It was OBVIOUS that Tubby didn’t compose that thing, and that the person the issue described was not David Mayo. Had I read that while “in”, I could only have laughed at it. Once I was out and figured out he’d set up his AAC to deliver scn, I MIGHT have moved to his creation, had I felt the need to receive any further scn. Compared to what DM’s carved out of what Tubby (and David Mayo) built, the AAC sounds like what I’d joined scn for. It STILL couldn’t deliver what Tubby promised, but at least it wasn’t going so far off the rails as Davey-boy did from the beginning.
“It was OBVIOUS that Tubby didn’t compose that thing, and that the person the issue described was not David Mayo. ”
No jere, El Con Tubbolard DID order that written about Mayo. Like all sociopathic leaders Tubbo shot people when they got too popular with the sheeple, being afraid they would take over and have him locked up like he deserved.
Jere – Here’s a recent interesting thread on the Ex Scientologist Message Board regarding the ever changing definition of “Clear”. It includes an article written by David Mayo in 1989. I noted that at the time he wrote the article he was still giving credence to the Hubbard/Scientology reactive mind/engram theory.
After I split scientology I briefly considered continuing scientology at Mayo’s Advanced Ability Center in Santa Barbara since I didn’t have any problem with The Tek at the time, only the price increases. It wasn’t long after I split that I realized the “We know everything about everything. We’re right and everyone else is wrong.” presentation by scientology meant I had been in a cult.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/clear-some-background.50323/
It would be interesting to see DM’s scientology Blow Stat.
Perhaps there is a run on goldenrod paper, with all the people they really did declare in the last 10-20 years.
We need to raise critical funds to buy more goldenrod paper immediately! Let’s have a pirate costume dinner, with balloon animals for the kids, a bouncy house, and a magic show to raise money for the goldenrod project. We can shatter suppression and deal an effective blow to the SPs who are running wild in our field. Call the org and confirm your attendance today!
I’d rather eat an ordered pizza.
Otherles, the pizza’s a good idea, and eating it actually achieves something of value.
Once they got the goldenrod issues printed up, what next? Should they actually send them to the subjects? that would open them up to a slew of defamation suits, and likely would drastically shrink the “active” membership numbers. Who knows how many they carry as ‘in good standing’ actually were declared in a fit of the “kid’s” rage? How many would find out that they shouldn’t be attending course or going into session tomorrow? How many who want to be members who find out their SP status WELL after the ‘fact’?
I suspect it’d be a large number compared to the “active rolls as how is DM supposed to remember everyone he’s kicked out during his drunken rages?
They just need to require that the SPs provide their own goldenrod and create their own SP declare on their way out the door. Problem solved. I’ve been waiting almost 40 years for my declare. *sigh* When oh when will I become one of the Special People.
🙂 MarcAnon.
Good one RB,
Soon there will be no one to disconnect from.
Always as if you were a fly on the wall in the KOOl-aid factory. Here is an example of an OT VIII talking about Miscavage.
https://www.davidmiscavige.org/hu/videos/marijke-qureshi-on-david-miscavige.html
Hopefully one day this deluded being will open up her eyes and see the real Dave.
You must remember this
A fist is still a fist
A spy is just a spy
The fundamental things apply
As Davy lies
And when Miscavige woos
He still thinks, “I’ll gouge you”
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As Davy lies
DBs and SPs never out of date
Heart full of venom, jealousy and hate
Davy needs thugs and lawyers must get paid
That no one can deny
It’s still the same old story
The power, greed and glory
A hidden life of crime
The world will always see through bullshit
As Davy lies
Scribe, another nice one…
Ever thought about writing a blog?
Thanks for your literary gems!👍😎
How about a movie?
“Soon there will be no one to disconnect from”.
That’s the dream come true. I hope it happens, Xenu’s Son!
Well, at least in the pics I glanced at, he’s wearing a wedding band of some sort, not that his WIFE would know about that after all those years he’s separated her from him. AND of course, “Lou” seems not to care about such niceties. She seems to have taken over all Shelly’s perqs without having any legal rights, not that DM would EVER legally divorce Shelly, since that would put him at some risk. Better she die in unsuspicious circumstances working at the job she loved, safeguarding Tubby’s materials for all time.
LOL! Terra’s answer will be there tomorrow? 😉
I don’t know if I can make tomorrow. But, I’ll try.
Wooooo, RB. Sad and funny at the same time. Yea, scientologists really do think and talk like that.
It’s the Scientology language. Sometimes it’s hard to understand them…like ALL THE TIME!
OSD:
“It’s the Scientology language. Sometimes it’s hard to understand them…like ALL THE TIME!”
Often, they’re not sure WHAT they’re saying; they’re just parroting what another said and it sounds good.
It’s like a bunch of parrots you have to deal with.
Do birds fly?
Scribe, my cog on doing that drill was that some birds swim and that some fish fly.