Because West Coast network TV schedules operate at the same local time as their East Coast equivalent. So if a program is set to broadcast at 10 PM ET, it gets shown at 10 PM ET, 9 PM CT, and 10 PM PT. The three-hour “delay” has been in place since the beginning of network radio broadcasting in the 1920s.
When I started my research (was considering how to design a cult for a novel idea I had), I thought that Scientology was no crazier than any other religion.
I was wrong. Scientology is is the religious equivalent of a radioactive waste dump.
I feel sorry for those still trapped inside. I’m happy so many have escaped, and hope more will make it out.
As for David Miscavige, he belongs in jail, though I have no hope of that happening.
I remember parties like that back in the 80’s with identical conversations. Once when a close friend of mine passed away, a memorial service was held for him at the house of an OTVII. His wog friends were there also, including a transgendered young woman who was totally oblivious to the fact that she should try to keep a low profile. She was very comfortable with the social dynamics of the situation having once been a scientologist in Paris. She spoke to the gathering about our friend with uncommon eloquence and wit. The wogs in the group freely laughed at her humor but the scientologists were frozen. They were either scandalized or terrified. There were furtive glances between them with undignified facial contortions. That night I took a seat on the wog side of the room and that gesture was equal to a formal announcement I had left the church of scientology.
RB was very funny. All this nonsense started in 1982. 2 years before “1984” – same mentality. Light shades of it before that and correctable but never like it became in 82 and thereafter.
I had a ‘Wog’ girlfriend, and her criticisms of Scn were the reason I was not approved to go over the rainbow to become a Gold scriptwriter. (I must remember to thank her for that!). Also, a very close friend of mine was convinced to divorce his non-Scientologist wife – he did so and regretted it for the rest of his days until he died of cancer. Another one who went to join the SO in LA and was offloaded as soon as he developed a medical condition. They also owed him money but did not pay. Most ethical group on the planet indeed.
So although the satire is hard to take at times…it isn’t because it stretches the truth, it’s because it does not.
I also feel at times that there is too much anger and hate being expressed on this site and on the Underground Bunker – but you know it is an ‘outlet’, a place to let off steam. And a lot of people have been very, very hurt by Scientology. Betrayed, lied to, demeaned, cheated, ‘spun-in’, isolated, etc.
I would agree that I met many good and well meaning individuals while on staff and as a ‘public’. But I also know of several that were not – and were in fact bat shit crazy and evil-hearted to boot. Also thievery was very common on staff. I hear it was/is even more endemic in the Sea Smorg, where you dare not leave your bar of soap or toilet paper, let alone iPod or cash, unlocked.
I’m afraid the decent, well intended individuals in the Church are far outweighed by the scum who get some kind of weird pleasure over control of others, and throwing a psychotic tantrum screaming at fellow staff members. With Captain ‘Let Him Die’ at the helm, and insane loyal minions, a decent person does not last long as a Scientologist – they must wall off their emotions and sanity until it becomes too much and they leave.
Yes I agree with what you say. If Scientology had concentrated on delivering its products – well taught students and thoroughly audited PCs, then all these nasty, bitchy and unusual management solutions, attitudes, donations and regging nonsense would never have occurred. Apparently Hubbard was aware that this might occur if one reads his message to David Mayo but why he didn’t take more steps to nip it in the bud we will never now know. This nasty attitude now prevailing for the last 30 years or so became like an infestation and now part of the body corporate, so to speak.
I hope my anger is expressed almost exclusively against the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology and not against, well, individual clams(1). But my sympathy is mainly with the non-members who are harassed and with those born into the organisation. Not that anyone makes an informed choice about joining, but some people leave a lot sooner than others – just saying…
The organisation is the thing I would like completely removed in its present form, i.e. reduced to an apology-making and compensation paying machine. The individual members should be free to do their own thing, and I think they should be free to disagree with me as much as I reserve the right to disagree with them 🙂
(`1) well, a member in good standing of the Co$ does do an awful lot of “clamming up.”
God. The ammount of times ive been involved in conversations just like these. It wasnt until i finaly put Scientology out of my life that i understood how much of a D.B. i had been turned into. We disciminated against everyone when we were in the sea org. Even against other Scientologists who werent S.O. members. They were not real scientologists. They were namby pamby pantywastes. So as funny as these skits are they are sadly true.
Hi Regraded Being, I echo other posters here and say your work just keeps on firing rockets over and into the wall of the cos/cult.It made me remember years ago,I knew a little a young lady who was true-blue Sea Org with Asho Day.I can picture her but her name escapes me.Before going on post Asho F would play volley ball in the loading dock courtyard of the org on Temple St.I was pretty much a pill at times and instead of playing I would sit on the low concrete retaining wall that went around the outside of Asho and watch the sunset and moon rise.The games really were very competitive and I stunk at volleyball so I was left to do my sky gazing.One evening this lady who was going on course after dinner,came and sat with me.She was about seven months pregnant at the time.For some reason she told me that the Dad was in Sea Org but had no intention of marriage.She said she was routing out of the SO and going to live with sympathetic friends because she would not have an abortion as she was pressured strongly to do.I did feel badly for her but she said there was no other way.After I told her good luck she left.Later I heard she had gone to her friends and I believe there was a golden rod.So sometimes only a certain side of cos is seen.RB unflinchingly gives me the whole picture and that only makes me send more love and admiration RB’s way.Love always,Ann.?Xo.
SAD:
I’ve been witness to conversations like these which were perjorative of Scientologists having all types of relationships with non-Scientologists. Sometimes the disdain was expressed with only an eye-roll: “Her 2D is not in Scientology”…”He works for Wogs”, etc. The message was clear.
FUNNY:
Its all in your little details. This time for me it was the smoking 🙂
Spot on RB and not an exaggerated scene either. I’ve seen it and participated in it, much to my chagrin now. As for being a Scn and married to a “mere wog,” I knew a woman on OT VII who was married to an upstat wog who had paid for her entire Bridge and her entire living experience as she never worked while married. She got on the Ship for OT VIII and they refused to let her do OT VIII because she had not handled her wog husband to be a Scn. So they censured him for being wog and denied her OT VIII, but yet they gladly took all his money all along the way for donations to IAS and her Bridge. The church may not like you but they sure will take your money.
Are you in competition with yourself , dear RB ? ; You get better and better each time , with this unique ability at duplicating human phenomena. Great work.
Christmann i feel like you. Lots of scientologists are not like that. But many are, no compassion
Really cob like. Ready to disconnect if they perceive that you are not with the pgm.
Some very good friends of mine became this kind of souless asshole. And they smoke, god they smoke!
One of the effects of nicotine is that it serves as a relaxant which may help calm the inter turmoil many Scientologists likely experience inside the bubble. For many of these people there has to be a subconscious twinge that what they are doing is BS.
FG, I knew a number of “compassionate, caring” Scientologists who supposedly “loved” me and thought highly of me as a Big Being, a Powerful Thetan and a definite Social Personality, who just quietly went out of comm with me with no explanation. I can only deduce that they were told something that “proved” to them that I was in disagreement with the goals of Scientology. Not one of them ever explained, not one of them ever approached me and said, “By the way, So and So told me that you blah blah blah – is that true?”. Nope, they just went out of comm. If you met these individuals you would no doubt believe that they were – are – warm, caring, kind people. But these same people had no problem dropping me quietly and without sorrow for – I don’t know, whatever they were told – not on board with Ideal Org Fundraising, not OK with IAS crush regging – maybe worse. Again I don’t know. There was no discussion on by anyone, no querying of me for my side of it. Obviously they were “warned” about me, and they dropped me.
It was an eye opening experience. None of them were my family or people upon which my business depends, thank God. But they were people whom I considered friends, people who professed high ARC for me.
It was all talk, all bullshit, FG, and talk is cheap
Compassionate is as compassionate DOES..
Caring for others shows up in deeds, not words.
And if you want to know who people really are, and what they really think of you, then look, don’t listen. Observe what they do, and observe what they don’t do.
Most of these people are now manning posts in the OTC Committees worldwide and pressuring their less “loyal” “subjects” to do even more. Quite frankly they are all in Treason to the subject as they have been instrumental in agreeing to its destruction. Thing is if the subject is ever saved from the fools that are currently ravaging it they are the types who will say “we knew it all along”.
As is SOP, having worked all the Div4 lists to death, it’s just a matter of time before the “wog” bookbuyer lists come out & public are encouraged to bring their non-SCN friends and family as “this event is for EVERYONE”. I used to squirm at the thought of newbies at these events. Now I encourage all orgs to use their Div6 & Bookbuyer lists to the max – this will ensure people fleeing in droves after just one event – never to be seen near an org again 🙂
Once again the reflection of the group think of corporate scientologists in cartoon form. Spot on RB.
Joking aside, there is a definite ‘hat’ scientologists wear amongst themselves that defies understanding when you read their own codes and technologies. It’s as though passing the secret initiation of being a scientologist is to gain the ability to be a walking and breathing contradiction of yourself and appear to be happy about it. (However, try to get a scientologist to tell you what happiness is… good luck with that, all you’ll hear is 3rd (group) dynamic ramblings of impossible goals and dreams).
A scientologist spends the vast majority of their time justifying themselves rather than engaging in the product of life itself – living!
They truly can’t see the forest because of the trees – they’re nuts!
I Yawn, Interesting you notice that “A scientologist spends the vast majority of their time justifying themselves” I’ve been consciously weeding that out of my thoughts for the last year or so. It’s beginning to be gone more then there 🙂 [and no, it wasn’t a BT LOL]
So ex so. And I will attest while this is satire it is very close to truth. Yes that is how scientologist think. And yes they smoke alot. Thanks mike. We love you man.
A smoker friend of mine from high school days died of lung cancer at 53. Her family had long nagged her to stop and occasionally she would try for a bit, never for long. This family feels guilty because it believes that it was the failure to get her to permanently quit caused her death. Now, if the family were in the cult, they would believe that not smoking enough caused her death, and would feel guilty about the times they persuaded her to stop.
Comrade Regraded Being hit the nail, squarely on the head. No, all these things don’t happen at any one clam party, but in totality, they do happen. Clams do watch their tongues in public, but not in private.
While clams love to ‘convert’, they will only do it on their terms. If a wog doesn’t buy in to the whole scam, they will be disposed of, quietly and without sorrow. But only after sucking out all the money they can.
Another great one RB. For those of you who don’t get it, like Mike said above don’t be so literal and it IS satire. Having said that…
For the record I have witnessed derogatory statements about dating or marrying a “wog” or god forbid being friends with one. And have also witnessed the invalidating comments to individuals going to college for degrees and how they should join Sear Org and/or staff for “the better good”. Personally a staff member tried to impress upon me that completing high school was a waste of time and I should just join staff. Luckily I never did. During all those years of studying to be an auditor and going up the bridge, I was often treated like I was just a “dilettante public”. Nastiness is not just reserved for “wogs”. RB I would love to see a panel on that, the staff vs. public mentality.
The Cult will wither and die of it’s own self inflicted wounds. Many with good intentions who have helped the cause have to deal with the consequences. I am among them.
I really appreciate RB for his perception and wit and his efforts continue to challenge people both in and out of the Cult. Long live RB! Oh yeah, don’t forget the Standing O and the stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight…………..!
Yes Ms.P, I remember when Megan Shields was thinking about going to med school, and $cn execs were trying to talk her out of it. Now they can’t wait to slap her name onto their Narconon letterhead to “prove” they have a medically supervised program.
Hi Lynn, I knew Megan back in the day when she was in school. I remember well the pressure she got. And how right you are, how convenient that she can now be used for the betterment of the church.
I’ve also seen numerous people abandon degree courses so they can become fully fledged culties. As to being with wogs – I had to have a metered interview when I said I had a relationship with a non-scn, I just wish this had been enough to persuade me to leave, a that time though I was still a believer.
Also I well remember the bs interviews where they tried to talk me into giving up a well paid job so I could join staff – idiots they live in cloud cuckoo land not the real world where it costs money to live.
There were IAS events where newbies were encouraged to come along, some of them even donated money, and yes they were never seen again, its a fantastic scare tactic to kill off possible interest.
Ms P, you’re right on the money. Wog education? Are you kidding? That’s strictly for Wogs!
Boy, did I hear a lot that when I was in. I think, though, that those who have joined staff or the SO are so miserable, they want everyone else miserable. Hey misery loves company! And that’s exactly what the cult produces: Misery. And you’re right, nastiness is not just for Wogs. In the cult, nastiness is pervasive.
“I think, though, that those who have joined staff or the SO are so miserable, they want everyone else miserable”.
I always thought that. Staff and SO would mock up happiness and uptone-ness but I was never convinced that they actually COULD be happy living like that.
What I WAS convinced of was that I could never be happy living like that and I felt guilty about it, like they were Big Beings Who Can Make All Their Dynamics Go Right, while I was in reality this petty, little being concerned about running my business, paying my bills, etc.
For many years I felt guilty about this, about not joining staff. Somehow THEY were happy but I knew I’d be completely miserable working those hours with the spectre of poverty hovering always near.
After I left I realized that they weren’t happy at all; it was just an act, for the public’s benefit. Staff HAD to act like they were thrilled with their jobs so that WE the public WOULD somehow imbibe the (false) notion that being on staff or in the SO made all your flows open and your dynamics all work together etc. etc.
I also saw what an act they put on about their relationships. Staff marriages and 2D’s are always the greatest – always, and then one day, they’re divorced, but somehow, and you’re kind of surprised, because here is this happy couple with this great relationship, you thought, and now they’re divorced. But guess what? Their divorce is ALSO the greatest. Yes! These breakups were never communicated as losses. Their divorces were ALWAYS big wins for them! I never could understand it, and of course, I introverted and thought there was something definitely wrong with ME.
Ah yes, the PR strategems of staff and SO. No matter what they’re doing, no matter what they’re not doing, it is ALWAYS fantastic, and they’re so uptone and fullfilled and flourishing and prospering and and and…
And one day I realized what a huge act they’d been putting on, and that they couldn’t wait to route off staff, and that their lives sucked just as much if not a good deal more than mine did, except that it had never occurred to me to pretend that my life was terrific if it were not, or that I felt great if or when I did not.
Wow, Aqua, great post! You’re right on all issues. When I went up to Pasadena for my 40 year high school reunion, I hung out on the side walk talking to the staff of the org. This was 2011. Nobody was taking their offer to see the intro films. NO ONE. The receptionist, standing by me, had huge BIs. You could look at her face and know she absolutely HATED what she was doing. She really didn’t hide her feelings well. The next time I came back, almost the entire staff was different.
And, Aqua, they have to pretend that EVERYTHING IS JUST FANTASTIC! Otherwise they’d be invalidating scientology. And saying their divorces were FANTASTIC is what’s expected of them.
When I was on staff, no one was happy. We’d work our butts off for $25 a week! Many weeks we got NOTHING. However, it’s probably all my fault as I just couldn’t make it go right…..
BTW, Aqua, you ARE the prize that people are striving for. There’s nothing outside of yourself. You are eternal consciousness. You’re always been and you always will be….
Hi Chrissman9,
With very few exceptions all Scientologists I’ve known have shown themselves to be very nice, well intentioned people. That does not take away from the fact that many behave in what I consider to be a socially destructive manner. The scenes I’ve drawn are taken from similar situations I’ve observed or have read or heard about from the experiences of others. Putting all of these situations in one setting is indeed a bit extreme but these viewpoints do exist and these things do happen within the church. Self-determinism has been redefined to ‘Marching to the beat of COBs little drum.’ I do appreciate your comment and thank you for expressing it to me. I hope you do continue reading the cartoons and letting me know when they feel “off” .
For what it’s worth, I found the comments much more readable before they were turned upside-down and backwards. Now it is really hard to follow. The only thing that’s ever been good upside-down and backwards is Albert King playing a Gibson Flying V.
Ah, yes. The man who was telling a bunch of public that the L.A. Org had 700 new people coming in EVERY WEEK. And then he said, “It’s happening! It is! It is! It is!” Almost sounds like he’s trying to convince himself……
I read Mikes blog daily but usually skip over Friday’s because I never really understand them. Except for today. This “wog” is me. I am dating a scientologist and have been for some time. At first he would talk about it with me but when I started asking questions or wondered why you had to pay to get deeper into the religion he stopped trying to convince me of its awesomeness.
The more I dig into this nonsense, the harder it is for me to understand how this intelligent, caring man believes this drivel.
Why is there a special language for Scientology?
Is it to make one feel superior?
Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies?
Why, when evidence and facts are presented do otherwise rational people shut down and attack truth as lies? Isn’t one of the main tenents of this faith “if it’s true for you then it’s true?” So ex-scientologist , ALL OF THEM are not telling their truths?
Here is what I liken this to. The children in the Catholic Church who were molested is disgraceful and abhorrent. I believe these people are telling the truth about their abuse (I am a Catholic). If I acted like a scientologist I would stick my fingers in my ears and sing “I’m not listening!” And accuse them of being liars who are trying to ruin the church. However, as a rational person I can see that the overwhelming evidence tells me this tragedy happened.
What goes on in a Scientology brain to block out rationale in this one part of their lives?
I really consider leaving this man based on the fact that he believes this crap. Otherwise he is a loving, decent man. My fear is that if we ever lived together he might drop the facade and try and brainwash me. (Never going to happen btw)
Any insight?
Wow! That is a tough position you are in. My only advice from someone who was born into this cult some 60 years ago would be to force him to open his eyes and read what is really going on with SCN. If he refuses, leave him. Also, if he refuses to research about the real activities of the church, SCN policies will force him to disconnect from you and leave you anyway because you apparently are an “enemy” of the cult. Search articles about C of S on the Tampa Bay Times website. They’ve done a great job of reporting about the cult leader and his and the church’s criminal activities. Good luck to you.
In time, over on ESMB there have been several people in a situation like yours. However hard this may sound: the advice from the overwhelming majority there was to leave the guy you’re with.
I was never in, so it’s easy for me to say. I trust you’ll be given good advice for your situation, here or on ESMB ( http://www.forum.exscn.net/ ).
All the best on making a good and informed but also hard decision.
The reason I recommend attempting to have him “see the light” is perhaps it would result in another active member, waking up and leaving the church plus perhaps it will work out for them.
All I can add here is my own experience. I have been in your boyfriend’s shoes trying to introduce a new girlfriend to scientology. Even though I was a true believer, I always found it very embarrassing and uncomfortable because of the cognitive dissonance that you describe in your post. Fortunately I was never successful in converting anyone.
Trying to understand and describe the ‘scientology mindset’ is very difficult even for ex-scientologists. I can’t explain it myself, but I have found a couple of resources on the internet VERY helpful. Chris Shelton does an excellent job at this and his blog is full of helpful videos and articles. If you like your whiskey straight, try the Jason Beghe interviews on YouTube. He pulls no punches lays it on the line from a different viewpoint. Both are invaluable. Those are just for starters. http://mncriticalthinking.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
Thanks msbhaven and everyone else. I’ve watched Jason’s interview. In fact, that was one of the first things I watched after I read the article about Paul Haggis. My thinking is that my friend has been in so long that his entire life is wrapped up in it. Friends and family. For him to confront the truth would be tantamount to having no past. He is not that involved at all but will go to a mission after they pester him enough.
I do not want to be that person to try and open his eyes. I don’t have enough knowledge about it all to make what he would think to be a valid argument. I would get the same stock answers he’s given and that I’ve read about.
My gut says flee.
You might suggest to him that all the benefits of scientology are available in the Free Zone, without the high prices and abusive tactics, since most of the most highly trained people left to practice independently. But if his real connection is to family and friends, rather than an attachment to the actual practice of auditing, this may not appeal to him.
When you said “For him to confront the truth would be tantamount to having no past” hits the nail DIRECTLY on the head. This is what every ex-scientologist has had to look straight in the eye in one way or another. In fact, we have had to look at not only admitting that we were duped by the world’s greatest con but also by the ‘fact’ that we would be surrendering our ‘eternity’ as well. This is no easy task for anyone, especially 2nd & 3rd gens who don’t know what actually really exists outside the bubble. After one gets out and gets some space, it eventually becomes clear that there is no one that can take away your ‘eternity’, that was part of the imaginary prison scientology helped erect in your mind. The part about being duped is just something one has to accept and take it as a learning experience and move on.
I’m not one to give advice very often, but I have found for myself that gut instinct is more often right than wrong. Perhaps fleeing would be the best thing for all concerned. If it helps wake your boyfriend up and helps him grow a set big enough to confront what is actually right in front of him, it could be the best gift that you could ever give him no matter the outcome for you. Best of luck and best wishes for both of you…
Hi Thisisme, I just read Ms. B Haven’s wise post and it rang very true for me.If your gut instinct is telling you to flee,I feel there is an enormous red flag waving at you.Yet I well understand it took me many many months of blood sweat and tears,before I could blow from The Sea Org.You have to do what is right for you and I send you love and light,Ann.
For Thisisme, you will never be first in his life. You will find a place that is after Hubbard, a dead charlatan, after Miscavige, a still-living charlatan, after his superiors in the church, and even after his family. Too, you will find that he has no trouble writing up Knowledge Reports on you. His family might as well.
If he does not love you more than all that, and gives it up willingly, then you are settling for far less than you are worth.
And speaking of worth, expect, too, that all of your money will go toward the church. And you may well incur marital debt that holds little to no value for you, but you may be the one paying it off. If you have children, they will be treated as small human beings indebted to the church. You may see them signed up in the Sea Org while they are still children. And you may be persuaded to enroll them in less-than-stellar Scientology schools. You will have less say over your kids than you might think.
Is this how you want to live your life? Good luck to you.
“For Thisisme, you will never be first in his life. You will find a place that is after Hubbard, a dead charlatan, after Miscavige, a still-livingcharlatan,afterhissuperiors in the church, and even after his family. Too, you will find that he has no trouble writing up Knowledge Reports on you. His family might as well.”
It is incredible how Thisisme’s love partner has been judged here by quite a few posters w/out even having given him the chance to prove himself. “He’ll leave you” , “He’ll prefer LRH over you” , “He’ll choose the CofS over the relationship” , “He’ll write a K/R on you” , blah, blah, blah. Have we became astrologers now , is that it ? Are we so inclined to declare someone guilty even before he has acted just because we might have had our own bad experiences in the area ?
Does the “virtue” now consist in how to avoid a future pain, and protecting our own interests, and to hell with the well being of others ? Are we going to be selfish now on the 2D , and only stay if it doesn’t represent any “Dev-T” or inconvenience to us ? Is that really a sane 2D ,or just an extension of our own first Dynamic ? Is love really tied to our religious beliefs ? Or is love tolerant and understanding ? Do we need to have the same religious beliefs to be compatible with someone ? Or can our differences makes a realationship more challenging and interesting ?
Is love about “convenience” , or is it about making allowances, and learning to accept others for what they are ? Is it about self-protection or about mutual help and caring for each other ? Is it about forcing our beliefs in others, or about finding the beauty in our differences ?
For love is more than an extension of our own first Dynamics where the emphasis is placed in the inflow of sensations instead of the flow of admiration towards those we love.
We humans certainly have a VERY LONG road to travel to understand what a real Second Dynamic looks like and should be.
I wish you the best in your journey. I won’t be unrealistict with you neither ; Scientology is the most insidiously destructive cult of the 20th century , with a never seen before ability to unduly influence the behavior, thoughts, information, and emotions (Steve Hassan’s BITE model for explaining Undue Influence) of the cult adherent. Parishioners are frequently under an unsuspecting hypnotic trance which totally blinds them to reality. And getting them to realize that is not an easy task at all, but can be done, nevertheless , if one fully understand the mechanism behind undue influence. That’s why I recommended those links and websites to you.
On his website, Freedom of Mind ( wwe.freedomofmind.com ) , Hassan has a “contact section” where you can reach him and ask him anything you wish. He is a very polite, helpful and resourceful individual who is fully aware of Scientology as a cult. You can watch his many videos , and learn a lot from him. The first step on understanding any condition, is to learn everything we can about it with experts in the field. Then we are equiped to do something about it.
I have experience in getting other Scientologists to realize about the cultic nature of Scientology. I recently got a dear friend out of it after a well thought strategy that lasted a few months , but ended up in the victory of Free Will, Self-determinism, and Freedom of Thought. Nothing pleases me more in life than to see and enslaved mind free itself of strict dogmas and authoritarian approaches to truth. So it can definitively be done provided that we are educated on how to do it, and provided that we possesses the patience and tolerance level required for this task.
This process is one that works on gradients. Do not expect him to wake up in one day or one week ; this is a rather long process (weeks or months) . As I was involved myself in the cult for 3 decades, I have a better perspective of what it takes to free onself from it than many cult experts who never have been in Scientology, but in other different cults.The easier approach that I have found is not to get the Scientologist to realize that LRH was a fraud, but to realize as a first step that the Church itself is violating and altering his writings and policies resulting in the suppression of the parishioners.
David Miscavige should be made, temporarily as LRH IS really the underlying cause of all of this, the reason for all the debacle. Then when the individual is already off-lines and away from the Church’s control, one can start working then , on step 2 of the strategy : realizing that Scientology as a philosophy as such is a destructive cult, and has always been. But once the person is out, he might wish to continue practicing Scnientology (training, auditing, etc) , and that’s all right ; nothing wrong with that. He probably won’t support the destructive policies and practices, but mostly want to participate in the therapy aspect itself , what we call, “auditing”.
Scientology would have turned at this stage, in a rather inoffensible religious practice that he uses to get wins and gains, not to suppress the rights of others with it. He’ll be free now to read many blogs and websites on the subject of Scn , and make his own INDEPENDENT judgement about it , which is really the end product of the handling, not whether or not he throw the baby out with the bath water. That is not the end purpose, as we should never impose in others in what to believe or not. He’ll probably realize, eventually, that LRH was just full of shit in so many ways, but hey, just let him be and enjoy your win.
Feel free to contact me if you wish to do so.
Best regards,
Peter
I Yawnalotsays
That’s one aspect I find all too real about the ‘scientology effect’ in that it creates an almost overwhelming desire to have it explained to you by someone else. To seek answer after answer until apparently the right one comes along and zzzzz, all better, but generally it’s never quite good enough, getting ripped off and betrayed is a bitch. I’m not being critical of anyone here. More than once in my life (away from scientology) for example, sitting in the bush with a rifle playing armies I’ve seriously asked myself “wtf am I doing here,” and trying to fathom why such a dangerous, confusing situation is accepted and maintained by so many. Some taxes and govt incentives/decisions are like that too.
Finding oneself in a shitty situation every now and again comes as requisite for being human I suppose. I know of no one who has hasn’t.
I do agree with Mike as to stopping the abuses within and the self assessed survival tactics of corporate scientology is the best focus and then let’s see how the situation looks after that. It all might defuse with dm being thrown in jail but trying to stamp out religious cults has been an ongoing situation in earth’s history, just ask the Inca’s and maybe those who volunteered for the Crusades (what in the hell were they thinking?) etc..
Finding peace within yourself is achieved how ever you achieve it and the quicker you can do that the better. Negativity can be a consuming thing if focused on too much or for too long.
Thisisme,
When beliefs become challenged, emotions run high and cognitive dissonance kicks in. I tried the force route, using my emotions (usually anger which was generated from ultimate anger with myself) to convince family to look at the facts.
Success rate …………. zero! It’s been years since I’ve seen the kids. Maybe one day they will come up for some fresh air. But, I think it is completely acceptable to continue to challenge beliefs using communication. At some point you will reach a fork in the road ……….. go with your gut instincts and may the force be with you.
Someone once said something along the lines that ‘life is in you today, never regret yesterday because it is gone. Your future remains, do with it what you will. And on that note……
Yo Dave,
Howz it goin today you hammered piece of ratshit. Don’t forget to check out 20/20 tonight. You might want to get your KCET (Krapper Corner for Eternal Thetans) studios fired up and do a rebuttal; hell, you could do a live version of Freedum Mag and have Marion Pouw interview you. Go get em good buddy!
I agree – trying to use any force has worse than zero effect, it tends to re-enforce their certainty. The only real thing you can rely on is that scn will start to piss them off and not provide the advertised results. Constant badgering for donations, being called 20 times for an event, tons of junk mail, processes which don’t do what they are supposed to all work to wear those with less than 100% certainty down, but it takes years and in some cases will never happen.
The other thing to be aware of is that being with a scn is like being with a junkie with a really bad habit, thousands of dollars just disappear into the black hole of scn. I estimate I spent $270,000 before I got out a few years ago, I have zero to show for this, other than the IAS receipts which I’ve held onto as evidence of my own idiocy.
This is me i have insight. You probably wont win this relashionship. Scientology had a terrible terrible track record with a scientologist and non scientologist trying to stay together. Especially is they are really into it. Dont get sucked in. Ibwas in for 7 years and trust me they are not worth it. Either they leave scientology or you leave them. Hard truth but the truth. Is pure poison.
Same thing for me. I tried to be in the group for a while, but it never made sense to me and soon saw it for the money making business it is. I kept hoping that she would see the “light” as she was a wonderful person except for this blind side. I would show her things on Yahoo, show her the misleading facts in the events, but to no avail. I thought I could ignore the differences, but over time it because too much to live with–the secrets, etc. Eventually, Flag told her to break up with me, but it was for the best. This went on for 12 years though–a waste of time–yes in some ways. I remember an old saying “you are not going to change anyone in a relationship no matter hard you try”. Unfortunately it seems to be true.
A short, 100% true story. When I started going out with my now wife I had been “in” for about 20 years, she was a “WOG”. My FSM Pavan Fraser expressed grave reservations about it several times. (The same Pavan Fraser who lost close to $1 million on the Reed Slatkin ponzi scheme). She would say it would never end well, a Scientologist marrying a WOG was going to be bad news. And that WAS the prevailing think inside the bubble. When I was on staff I myself would try to “handle” public who were dating WOGs. They “wouldn’t understand”, they wouldn’t “get it” etc etc. The same sort of pressure in microcosm that is applied to pregnant women on staff or in the Sea Org. Having a baby would be “Dev-T” it wouldn’t be the “greatest good”, on and on. Pushing guilt buttons. Of course most Scientologists are inherently decent – that’s not the point. The point is that fundamentalism will inevitably lead people to do bad things. When Jeff Pomerantz did his IAS “make-me-rich” briefings, he would usually start by asking “For who here has Scientology saved their life?” And though clearly it was a nonsense question, pretty much everyone in the room would put up their hand. Thereby setting the tone for what was to follow: “So what WOULDN’T you do for something that has changed your life?” Pretty insidious and very clever, but it IS where Scientology leads. As Marty said, Tom Cruise is what the End Phenomena of Scientology looks like – arrogant, totally certain, completely right, a little crazed, but ruthless with a take-no-prisoners attitude.
Thisisme – Many have already given you a lot to think about. My own experience – I lost a non-Scientologist soulmate because I was unwilling to look at the info she had read online. I thought it would be “compromising my integrity”, and I had been witness to some actual false reporting by journalists, so I thought any attacks were more of the same. Plus, I had had benefits from Scientology as a subject, that I confused with the organization So, she had a hard time convincing me, and sadly, that was that. It was only until I saw people I had known or seen previously, speaking up on CNN (including Mike) some years later, that I began to research for myself and started to see the light. If you really have something special and are willing to wait long enough, he may reach his boiling point. There is probably some reason that he is not too involved and keeping some distance at this point. I’m also Catholic, so just be aware that it is taught that Christianity is a “hypnotic suggestion” given to people between lives, like other religions, (which I used to believe) and Hubbard’s views on Christ ranged from saying he did not exist at all to allegedly saying he was a pedophile and homosexual. That last viewpoint was supposedly removed from the upper level materials, but if you were to become a Scientologist, you would run into a dilemma at some point, even though the public stance of the CoS is that it is open to people of all religions. Hope some of this is helpful.
PS – Very funny as always, RB! Maybe some exaggeration because it is all condensed into one event, but it is based on truth. Great reactions of the girlfriend’s face! lol
Yes and yes to the questions Thisisme – 15th wedding anniversary coming up soon. Funny thing too, our wonderful first child was conceived on the 6th floor of the Fort Harrison (sorry of that was too much information). What FINALLY made me wake up was the Truth Rundown seeing many people I knew personally of the utmost integrity speaking the truth calmly, without malice or spite. http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/part1.shtml
Thisisme, I hate to tell you this but I have to agree with the other comments. You see I was one of those Scientologists living with a non-Scientologist. This guy loved me very much and tried very hard to convert.
Mistake #1 was letting him attend with me the event that announced the passing of LRH (I knew better but he insisted). He walked away from that event thinking we were nuts.
Mistake #2 was letting him join me on my trip to Flag for review auditing. He thought the Sea Org was wacko. When I returned home many weeks later with a humongous review debt, this sent him OVER THE EDGE.
Needless to say the relationship didn’t work out. In hindsight he was right.
I’m sure you are dating a wonderful guy but in the end the horrendous influence of the ethics officer is going to make him choose between you or his “eternity”. I really hope you can make him see the light but it will take kid gloves. Good luck, keep us posted.
You know, Ms. P, I’m so very glad that I got out before I got married. My life has been great, but, would have had problems if I had been in. Whew! What a relief!
Hi OSD, Yes and a huge sigh with your post.If I had stayed in well,I am glad I met-never in hubby when out, or the relationship would never ever been allowed to go forward! We are both blessed by a brighter light or lights in our cases ( life partners) than those still in can see or understand.Love,Ann.
I so glad everything worked out for you and your husband! I sometimes look back and wonder, “How could I have been so stupid?” But being out and living life on MY terms if the best revenge….
ThisIsMe, (I hope this goes to you, clicked on reply under your post)
I’m a never-in but my sister has lived in Clearwater for 25 years and through her I met a famous celeb sports figure (not that many in sports) and I watched him suck a beautiful friend of mine into the Scilons after we were all business partners for over the last decade. My sister just read Regraded Being and knows of a few instances the cartoon rings true to her from having run into so many over the years including ex’ers. Over the years since I’ve been a partner with a Scilon I’ve watched the Scilons try to woo me with beautiful women, musicians such as OT8 John Novello (spent an afternoon with him and I will say he was a true gentleman thought I didn’t buy into it) and being invited to Krustie Alley’s house (wouldn’t go near here and would call the police if any Scilon tried to make friends with me, that is how I currently feel about the cult, they can’t be honest about their motives either to you or to their superiors, so they are doomed to incongruence of action and good intention). Many on the Bunker know the story of my OT2 friend who I will try to confront one more time after she threatened disconnection but backed off because I might now be her last non-Scilon close friend. Just my bringing up entheta caused her to have to do a ‘sec check’ and pay for it and I think she was forced to do the Truth Rundown as I came out with full guns blazing but looking back it was the wrong way. I had real evidence of the fraud of the cult, including the shooped pictures from Freedom Mag, but of course she was trained to handle all those objections. She backed down when I told her I could prove my claims to her superiors or I would pay restitution of 10K and put it up front in writing and she realized I was not afraid of her superiors.
I’m taking counsel from Mockingbird and Pluvo over on the Bunker and spoke on phone with Tory Christman who had some great ideas about how to confront her using Hubbard and her own axioms to get her to think outside the Scilon box. She knows I am powerful when I confront and now is scared to talk to me because as others have warned you, her superior will punish him in the end if you dare bring up too much. Your relationship is doomed to end not likely in a healthy way but has a chance to grow postively if you can get him to explore a search for truth together. Just follow your spirit which led you here on this day and listen to the wise counsel of those who replied before me. I think the best path would be to get him on the phone with a ex-scilon and there are many who would volunteer.
My heart and my prayers that you find the next right indicated thing are going out to you!
Thisisme : “The more I dig into this nonsense, the harder it is for me to understand how this intelligent, caring man believes this drivel.”
Peter : Dear Thisisme , I think that you need to find out more about the subject called a “cult”. There are a lot of good Websites about it that you can study so that you can understand the mechanism behind the blindness to truth that you are describing. One particular excellent source is the works of Steve Hassan. You can find his videos at Youtube. He has also written a few excellent works on the subject.
This other link is about the website of the “International Cultic Studies Association” (ICSA) , a group on international cult experts , which has many resources as well :
My advice to you would be to get thoroughly educated on the subject so that you can have the correct tools to deal with your dilemma. There is no substitute for finding answers to the problems of life as getting educated on the problematic area.
Thisisme : “Why is there a special language for Scientology?
Is it to make one feel superior?”
Peter : Not necessarily so , dear Thirisme. New “philosophies” frequently adopt a new vocabulary to describe observable phenomena ; it is called its nomenclature. This tendency exists in others practices as well as in medicine , psychology , computer , etc. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with that.
Thisisme : “Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies? Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies?”
Peter : It is the effect of something called “Undue Influence”. Google search it and study it well. Here is a link for an academic article on it :
Thisisme : “Why, when evidence and facts are presented do otherwise rational people shut down and attack truth as lies? Isn’t one of the main tenets of this faith “if it’s true for you then it’s true?” So ex-scientologist , ALL OF THEM are not telling their truths?”
Peter : It is just the effects of being under the undue influence of a cult , dear ; that’s all. There is nothing more to it.
As to your dilemma regarding your love partner , I can only say , that using Marta Steward’s type of “advice” , or Cosmopolitan magazine “tips” isn’t going to help you neither. “Just leave him” , “Fleet” , “Force him to read , and dump him if he refuses to…” , etc , etc , are only manifestations of how thoroughly fuck-up we humans are on the area of what Scientologists call the 2D (Second Dynamic-sex, relationships , family, etc-)
The “modern” tendency when something is not working properly is to just leave. What the hell happened with loyalty , honor , perseverance , hope and faith ? Are these things no longer important ?
Does this guy treat you as his queen ? Is he kind to you ? Is he loyal ? Is he kind to others ? Is he a hard working man ? Yes ? Then what does it matter dear ? Faith is just that , Faith. You can decide to either help him with patience , understanding (by getting educated on the subject of cults) , and religious tolerance ; or you can listen to Cosmopolitan type of advice ; your choice.
Man is a brute gender , dear ; most of us are. We are very selfish when it come to the 2D. It is not easy these days to find a decent , kind , hard working man ; they do not abound. A lot of us that function perfectly in the 3D (third dynamic- work , groups , etc) , yes. A lot of us , being intelligent and dependable , yes. But on the 2D we are generally a disaster , I got to confess.
So if this man of yours is intelligent , kind to you , detailed , and really care for you , then it is your duty to return the flow, and give him the chance to change. Otherwise , we all might as well quit this 2D game.
Thetaclear- thanks for your thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about. I am not looking for the reality television answer to my dilemma. Ultimately, I am looking for a way to co-exist if that is possible. I figured this was the best place to get information. He is an amazing person. And in reading so many blogs and comments, find that the vast majority of people here are genuinely good people.
” Thetaclear- thanks for your thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about.”
TC : You are most welcome ; I am glad it was of help to you.
“I am not looking for the reality television answer to my dilemma. Ultimately, I am looking for a way to co-exist if that is possible.”
TC : I think is possible. When one really loves someone, one accept that person for what he/she is. This doesn’t mean that we tolerate the parts of their personality that are destructive to others. But it certainly mean that we are tolerant to his/her beliefs. W/out faith and something to believe in , our lives becomes a burdersome unending boredom. Faith gives meaning to life ; it makes it livable.
The real lasting love frequently makes sacrifices and is something one has to work very hard on. It is not easy to leave a cult, and once one has physically left it, we might remain mentally and spiritually stuck to it even years after. But if one understand the mechanisms behind it, if one learn to be tolerant of the religious beliefs of those we care about , if we give them space and time to change and adapt, we win at the end , and a great lasting relationship based on mutual care and understanding results.
Patience and tolerance are always the best tools ; and even if it doesn’t work in the end, you still will have a dear friend instead of just an “ex”.
“I figured this was the best place to get information. He is an amazing person. And in reading so many blogs and comments, find that the vast majority of people here are genuinely good people.”
TC : I am glad that he is. And you are right about that ; there are a lot of incredible individuals in this blog.
Much success in your path. That you came here looking for answers and understanding is evidence enough that he is a VERY lucky man indeed.
One more thing as i reflect. The cult is dying but you should not stand still waiting for him to awaken. Truth withstands any attack and you came here today seeking resolution. There are those on the Bunker who make their comments public. I was thinking who might give you some insight. Derek at the Bunker has his comments public. You can also email him and he’d be ideal to give you some feedback. Just go the Bunker and click on his Disqus name and read his comments and you’ll get some great feedback scrolling through his comments. He among many others have opened my eyes about the brainwashing that will occur to a great degree, however much resistance your boyfriend puts up. There are other great sources as there are on this blog, and many of the people here can be found over there. I just know Disqus is a cool way to learn from public comments.
Hi Thisisme. Sorry to hear that you skip over Fridays on Mikes blog, but I understand. The cartoons are intended for those who may be under the radar but stil-in and those who’ve been there and left. I have also discovered that there is also a group of never-been-in folk who have learned to speak and understand Scientologese. I know that if you are not one of the above, the cartoons may have no meaning.
My point……
I have been married for over thirty years to a person that I brought into Scientology. I would describe my spouse as spiritual yet pragmatic in as much that this person would never hesitate to openly speak their mind when they sensed or observed contradictions between the church’s scriptures and it’s actions. (this happened often) I’ve experiences three separate occasions where the church staff tried to get me to divorce my spouse but quickly realized that they would lose me before that happened so they grudgingly increased their tolerance level of my better half. This was only done because I provided a service that was valuable to the staff and public of the Org I was a member of.
When I did finally decide to leave the church, my spouse basically said, “It’s about time, I was wondering when you would come around to realise that, that group is really not what it pretends to be.” I was very fortunate to be connected to this person.
Though I cannot give you any real workable advise towards what you should do about your boyfriend, I can tell you this; If you do not join the Church of Scientology and play along with whatever is asked of you by that group, they will (underlined) try to interfere with your relationship with your boyfriend. I really do hope he loves you very much because if you do not become a dedicated Scientologist they will at some point have him make a choice. I do hope that if it comes to that, he chooses you.
Good comment and advice to Thisisme, Regraded Being. I second that motion. But Thisisme, just know that it will (underlined and bolded type) come to a point when your boyfriend is asked to choose between you and his eternity. He will have tons of pressure put on him to break up with you and kick you to the curb. And it doesn’t even matter that he loves you. That he loves you goes without saying. I have seen kids disconnect from their parent whom they love very much, all because of the undue influence of the church in telling them they have to disconnect from you. It will be hard, but I say you need to drop him now rather than later, to save more heartache. If you would like to try to enlighten him about the cult before you leave, that is your choice. But I tried to enlighten my kids to the cult and even though they loved me enormously and vice versa, they disconnected. They refused to listen to or read my references from LRH that proved the church had gone squirrel. The MAA and execs forced them to disconnect from a mother who had risen to the top of the Bridge and was one of the most “valuable beings on the planet” because she was an auditor. That love and that status in the church didn’t save the relationship. The church won out over me and with hundreds of others that they forced the disconnection policy on.
Cindy : “It will be hard, but I say you need to drop him now rather than later, to save more heartache. If you would like to try to enlighten him about the cult before you leave, that is your choice. But I tried to enlighten my kids to the cult and even though they loved me enormously and vice versa, they disconnected. They refused to listen to or read my references from LRH that proved the church had gone squirrel. The MAA and execs forced them to disconnect from a mother who had risen to the top of the Bridge and was one of the most “valuable beings on the planet” because she was an auditor. That love and that status in the church didn’t save the relationship. The church won out over me and with hundreds of others that they forced the disconnection policy on.”
With all due respect to your opinions , dear Cindy ; but that is a VERY pessimist and conformist viewpoint. “You need to drop him him now rather than later” , what can of advice is that ? Is he an object now ? What kind of responsibility level is that ? Only a defeated Scientologist could have such a viewpoint.
Look , I am really sorry for what you went through ; that was inhuman and suppressive. But adopting a defeated viewpoint is not going to help anybody neither. Fight back for your rights , dear Cindy , never give up.
Thisisme , I know quite a few Scientologist friends who had non-Scientologists as wife/husbands. Even thought that the Church attempted to separate them , they never succeeded. There is nothing to be gained from backing off from confronting life. It is my conviction , that when one is being suppressed , the only solution is to fight back and never surrender. This is not a philosophic talk from Peter ; I have ACTUALLY put my advice in practice in my life. I never surrendered to SPs and unduly individuals. To do so is a confession of being in apathy.
If you need my help to guide you through it , please feel free to contact me. Just email the contact section on this blog , and ask Rinder for my personal e-mail. It takes some training on cultism and handling black propaganda to deal with this ; I have both , as well as training in Intelligence. The key to handling this kind of situations , is to not try to get the person away from the cult. That’s not the purpose and goal of the handling. The goal is to give the person back his free will , self-esteem , and willingness to think for himself. “Handling” him to leave the cult or else , or doing it compulsively just doesn’t work. Take my word for it. You need to give his self back to him , teach him to observe things by himself , and teach him as well how to recover critical thinking.
He is not going to just die because he is in a cult. Tolerance , patience , determination , and courage are the best tools. Correct strategy is everything in this. I am a pretty good strategists. I am here if you need me. Your choice. Whatever you decide is fine with me. I just wanted you to know that there are other options besides just giving up ; that’s all. This world is built on the shoulders of the brave ones.
Take care , and my best wishes and prayers to you both.
The same goes for you , dear Cindy. If you want me to help you get your family back , I am here for you. I make no promises , but I never give up if you don’t neither.
Thanks Peter. Maybe I should have talked to you when it was going down. It all happened so fast there was no time to strategize. The church had been working on them for months unbeknownst to me. They were turned before I could even try to give them “my side of the story.” I was just trying to tell Thisisme that by marrying this churchie, their joint family money will all go to Bridge and IAS. They’ll be drained dry eventually. And their kids will be taken by the church. Scientologists who thought they were doing a good deed for their kids by sending them to Scn schools, were just sending them to recruit campuses to be recruited into the SO, which then meant disconnection from their parents. Sorry if I sound jaded or bitter. But disconnection is a bitter pill to swallow.
Cindy : “Thanks Peter. Maybe I should have talked to you when it was going down. It all happened so fast there was no time to strategize. The church had been working on them for months unbeknownst to me. They were turned before I could even try to give them “my side of the story.” ”
TC : You are most welcome , and I totally understand you , dear Cindy
Cindy : “I was just trying to tell Thisisme that by marrying this churchie, their joint family money will all go to Bridge and IAS. They’ll be drained dry eventually. And their kids will be taken by the church. Scientologists who thought they were doing a good deed for their kids by sending them to Scn schools, were just sending them to recruit campuses to be recruited into the SO, which then meant disconnection from their parents. Sorry if I sound jaded or bitter. But disconnection is a bitter pill to swallow.”
TC : A very bitter pill to swallow , indeed it is. I agree with you ; marrying and having kids with this man w/out having solved first his connection to the Cofs is not pro-survival neither. Thisisme would have to work on the deprogramming strategy first before taking the relationship to a higher level.
My advice to all UTRs here (Under the radars) who still have family in the Church is to prepare a well thought strategy first to help your love ones before going public with your criticism towards the CofS. It is ok to talk about our “honor” , “personal integrity” , “courage” , and noble things like that. But none of it is a guarantee that you will bring them out of the CofS. Intelligence actions (as in strategies) are an covert operation not an overt one. You can’t just go to your family member and say to him/her ,
“listen , COB is a criminal who imprison and beat others ; he is an SP alter-ising LRH’s works. Yo need to get out of there with me now , today”.
I assure you , that ISN’T going to work at all. You’ll only “succeed” in driving him further away from you. You need to think with the concept of strategies , and get help from a terminal trained at cultic phenomena , handling Black PR , and general Intelligence strategies. This is a group effort. Here is what have been successful for me in helping others :
1. Do not voice your disagreements with “Command Intention” in such a way as portraying yourself as an anti-CofS individual. State your disagreements in a mild way , sounding sort of worry , concerned , but don’t overdo it. Try sounding in “boredom” about it not at cover hostility or anger. Sounding a bit “disaffected” is okay ; sounding AGAINST “Command Intention” , is not wise at that stage.
2. The idea here is not to make your family understand that LRH was full of shit , and that Scn is a destructive cult. That would be a VERY flawed “strategy’. The idea is to create the DOUBT in your family member as to whether or not LRH’s works are being altered in any way by the Church. That’s your point of entrance. You voice your concerns that you think that LRH is being altered. You provide them with specific LRH refs that counteract what the current administration is doing. You make them observe by pointing out in the correct direction.
3. An excellent site for that is Friends of LRH. In it you’ll find a “COB v/s LRH” comparison. Data is understood as compared and evaluated against other data on the same subject. Get them to take a look at that website if they are already reaching for more information. If not , just discuss one point at a time , like having to re-do Bridge steps , courses , etc. Ask them what LRH ref support that. Ask them what LRH ref support having to redo Objectives to include “Undercut processes” as a “Blanket C/S” action. Ask Qs like that with the sole idea to create DOUBT. That’s the product you are after , doubt.
4. Any fear from your family member to discuss these things , handle it with LRH’s refs on “personal integrity” , “Code of Honor” , etc. Get the individual to read and understand the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights (UDHR) . You’ll be surprised how most individuals doesn’t even know that such a document exist. This step is vital. He/she must know his fundamental rights
5. Discuss with him/her your concern with being SP declared and having to disconnect from them. See what’s in their minds regarding that. Discuss the doctrine of disconnection as evaluated against the UDHR. Make them understand that it is a wrong practice.
6. If they are ready to look further as they are ALREADY at doubt , you can refer him/her to Debbie Cook’s e-mail , “A Letter from Garcia” ( http://www.scientology-cult.com/images/stories/files/a-letter-from-garcia.pdf ) , and other such documents where Scn and LRH are not being criticized. Remember , the first stage isn’t about LRH or about Scn as a philosophy ; it is only about the CofS as an institution and DM’s programs.
7. Do not go for a “total effect” compulsively attempting to get him/her to leave Scn. This IS , IS a strategy composed of gradients. Gradients , and knowing when to reach and withdraw is the key to success.
8. Only after he/she is already out , get him/her to go in the Net and find out by himself about what is what. Give him his space to arrive at his own conclusions. Freeing oneself from a cult is a long healing process. It is a road to discovery best traveled by oneself.
More tactics and methods can be found at Steven Hassan website and his videos and books. Get trained on cultic studies as much as you can , and read the stories of other ex-members of different cults.
Hi Cindy,I was very moved by your post.What you wrote even though I did not have anyone in SO but me,the disconnection policy has always been unfortunately,brought tears to my eyes.As when I post about the black side of the cult,I am sure there are those who roll their eyes and exclaim there she goes again! But what happened to me was true and what you went through is very true.Brave and strong you definitely are.Always,Ann.
Dear Cindy, I didn’t mean to sound rude, insensible, and invalidative; God knows that you must have gone through a lot here. I sometimes react to these things out of my own frustration of not doing anything effective about it. This saddens me just too much to see families separated. I go into failed help, and sometimes say stupid things.
Please, do not lose hope, and hang in there. I know quite a few tricks if you wish my help in being able to talk with your kids again, but I can’t discuss it publicly. It would take me some time and a few letters, and your willingness to try my strategy. I make no promises except never giving up. Let me know if you wish to talk about it.
Take care, and my best wishes to you. You’ll be in my prays regarding your family.
Best regards,
Peter
P.S
I’ll post a general strategy tomorrow that might end these abuses. But it will take a lot of commitment and courage from others. We can pull this off in a way never tried before regarding Scn.
Hi thetaclear,It is a rainy and windy Oct.31 here.I read your posts to Cindy.I felt frustrated also,that families are forced apart because of policy.I send you power and hope that whatever may come in the future months can change the playing field,as concerns Scientology.At least perhaps some will think differently than before about the abuses done by cos.I am always happy to help in whatever way I can.With Love ,Ann.
Tough situation. I recommend “Cults Inside Out: How People Get In and Can Get Out” by Rick Ross and “Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults” by Steven Hassan (in no particular order).
Wayne,
The reality is that it is much worse that you think.
I speak from direct experience as my daughter is in CMO-IXU ( Commodores Messenger Org/ International Extension Unit) and held the post of Director of Inspections and Reports for many years. She joined the SO at her cousins urging at 16. She is 33 now. She would not be where she is today were it not for my support of the cult.
I think the comments on RBs cartoon today are likely very mild as compared to the reality.
I knew we could count on Leah Remini to deliver that smoking Hot BLOWAGE to the cult of Scientology. Please continue Leah – you are driving Miss Cabbage bonkers….!! No handling will pull him out of PT where everyone in the world knows Scientology is an evil cult that hurts people…except him and Tom Cruise a few thousand members.
This one is very good.
smoking Sea Org Bitch is my favorite RB cartoon
character because she is the perfect mock up
of my seniors at Saint Hill when I was staff.
Except the more evil ones that are now ex felons.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Like hardcore born again Christians or other extreme sects everything is filtered through the dogma. Scientologists when they get together are the worst.
I don’t know man. This just feels off to me. Like we are really trying to label Scientologists as evil, hateful people which in my experience they are not. It’s taking every bad example and saying that this is what “they” are like. This is not what they are like.
There are a lot of reforms that need to occur with the church starting from the top, but stereotyping scientologists the way this cartoon does is not going to help anything. I mean, what is the purpose? To degrade and create hatred towards Scientologists?
Is it funny and I’m just not getting it? Is it intended to be humorous?
When I take a step back and look at this I just see it as akin to propaganda.
prop·a·gan·da
noun
1. derogatory
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
I think you should try not to be so literal. Cartoons take things and exaggerate to make a point. I don’t think there is a cartoon in history that could not be interpreted as stereotyping and painting a certain group of people with a broad (or unfair if you feel defensive about it) brush.
That is why it is humor. Or satire.
And a CARTOON.
Do you think Archie represents all teenagers?
Come on, lighten up. You cannot expect anyone to believe you havent witnessed these sort of people yourself? OF COURSE they were not all in the same room at the same time.
You cannot have a 500 panel comic strip with 493 panels of nothing but nice people to poke fun at the others who are not so nice.
The pass the pen panel is sort of funny. But the other panels are an example of what I don’t find that funny about the cartoon. It is trying to forward and crate an image or stereotype of scientologists that is rarely true in my experience. I was on staff for five years and on lines for fifteen and the “Scientologists” in the cartoon don’t seem like Scientologists to me. They are a caricature perhaps from an outside viewpoint. Was Regraded Being in Scientology?
Like I said, the panel about the IAS reges passing the pens was funny. I guess I’m just not getting the humor in the rest.
Normal org staff are generally much more pleasant, I always dreaded encounters with SO because this was exactly how they thought and acted. The ones on the ship and at flag being the worst examples of all – the closest to the source of evil with nothing to filter it.
Dear Chrisman9 ,I’ve known Scn for several decades many of those years as a Scn staff. I was in the SO as well for a while. And I have got to tell you that I experienced every single situation that RB portrayed in his cartoons ; every single one of them.
At my Org , creating a 2D with a “wog” , as they are so eloquently called , was looked upon as a crazy misguided act. Gee , I got to confess that I held myself that stupid viewpoint until just a few years ago. If a Scientologist did created a 2D with a non-Scientologists , the staff tended to pressure this Scientologist to “bring his 2D in” to TURN her/him into a Scientologists as the only solution for them to last as a couple. I mean , I even participated in these type of “handlings”.
Studying for a degree was considered a total waste of time , specially if it was a career about business administration , marketing , social work , psychology , teaching , and medicine related professions. Joining staff to “Clear the Planet” was considered as a much higher goal a lot more important than having an academic degree. I even let myself be convinced to drop my engineering career , and I , making the worse mistake of my life , let those idiots convince me to abandon it all to pursue the “lofty” game of a “Cleared Planet”.
I have no clue as to how is it possible that you have not experienced any of those events if you have been in Scn that long ; I have no clue at all how is that even possible. Tell you what , why don’t you pay us a visit at Puerto Rico’s Org and see it for yourself ? THEN , you can have an informed opinion about it at least. Besides , this blog is about exposing the abuses of a suppressive group and its strict enslaving dogmas that led it to become a destructive cult. One of the tools to so expose and evaluate those abuses is through the use of something called “Satire” :
“Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit to draw attention to both particular and wider issues in society.”
Obviously one isn’t going to satirize the good parts of anything ; it doesn’t make sense to do so. RB work is satire , and he is doing an splendid job at it.
Your desire to portray Scientologists in general in a different way needs its own platform whose responsibility to create it the Scientologists’ themselves , and not Rinder’s. I keep saying that to you guys , and have been doing so for several months.
Milestone two group is dying as a blog. Nobody participate there any longer , not even you , any more. DROR , Israel , just the same. The Courseroom at Georgia is almost dead as a group , with almost no public. The only active Scientologists are quite a few ,and have been active since some decades ago ,but do so mostly privately w/out too much promotion in the Net. No Scientologist terminal is doing a damn thing to change the public perspective about them , but they want Rinder to do it for you. How lazy of you guys.
Tell you what , do something about it , and I might support you guys. Otherwise , stop the whining.
I concur Thetaclear, well said.
I have two OT8 card carrying members in the family and they are blind to state of the orgs. They even don’t see that the rest of family haven’t moved on the bridge in 2 decades, (I’m avoided like poison) yet they continue to rave about how good it all is. To add more insulted intelligence to it, they don’t answer the phones either and haven’t been on course for years. I do believe they view the CL5 Orgs as well and truly beneath them, yet they avoid Flag’s communication as well. Go figure hey? I know that the mere suggestion they have made an error of judgement in anything is a declaration of war.
All scientologists has a major problem with confront.
Chris, I appreciate your kindness, innocence, and courage. Like many of us, you don’t want the baby thrown out with the bathwater. I can see why the cartoon feels off to you, though I agree with Mike’s explanation.
Most Scientologists, in my experience, are awesome people, and very caring. While I’m no longer sure that the awesomeness of most Scientologists is uniquely attributable to Scientology, I still think it is important to acknowledge greatness where and in whom one finds it.
Regarded Being is extremely well done and funny, but also depressing and sad. It’s one of the best things on Mike’s important blog, as are people like you who continue to acknowledge the GOOD things about Scientology and Scientologists.
Perhaps not but that IS what many of them DO. When there is a discrepancy between what someone says and what they do, suspect that there is a belief system that underlies it. They will DO what they believe and not what they say.
I agree, Newcomer. There’s nice, and then there’s “nice.” In another context, if you’re a black person down south dealing with white people, it’s totally different than being a white person down south dealing with white people. Specifically back in the day, I remember how “nice” the white ushers were in the movie theater, as they directed me to the “colored section” of the place.
Gee, Chris, I found no problem with it. You know why? Because, to me, Scientologists are evil and hateful people. They believe in a doctrine that condemns me to hell on Earth by depriving me of the medication that has calmed my mind, and then denies me the “comfort” of their replacement for that medication because I’m “covertly hostile” according to that same doctrine and am not willing to conform to the expectations of a man raised by Victorian women. How much more hateful can you get?
Taking this too personally, I am? So are you. When you say “This is not what they are like”, you mean “This is not what I am like”. That’s why you don’t find it funny, even in a gallows humor sense. It hits too close to home. Now you know what it’s like for me to read DMSMH or Science of Survival and see those lines about homosexuals, and to see those lines still held up as the truth and nothing but by people like your buddies at Millstone Two.
Regraded Being, like all good satirists, is documenting the reflection of a slightly skewed mirror of reality. Just because it doesn’t match the image in your mirror isn’t a reason to call the reflection false.
Chris, I lived through it, many times. It is exactly what happens. It is not new or particular to Scientology. This has been going on for centuries. Catholics not wanting their children to marry protestants. Jewish people not wanting outsiders in the family. Class distinction. Not marrying below one’s “station” in life.This is an ancient thing, “exclusion”.
The reason it is an outpoint in the Scientology community is that you would think people who claim to know about “granting beingness” and “ser facs” would not dramatize such ancient backward social intercourse. But it is as thick there, as if you were standing in England in the 1400’s.
Time keeps moving, objects continually fly through space. But the same beings remain. And they keep running the same cycles of social abuse, injustice and discrimination.
Someone has to be the turkey on Thanksgiving. That is where these arrive, on the dining table being eaten by everyone else.
It’s pure satire. It’s exactly the right thing to use. Fascistic leaders and fascistic regimes and organizations hate it.
sat·ire (săt′īr′)
n.
1.
a. A literary work in which human foolishness or vice is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.
b. The branch of literature constituting such works.
2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose human foolishness or vice.
[Latin satira, probably alteration (influenced by Greek satur, satyr, and saturos, burlesque of a mythical episode) of (lanx) satura, fruit (plate) mixture, from feminine of satur, sated, well-fitted; see sā- in Indo-European roots.]
I have noticed that Scientologists like to include the copy/pasted dictionary definitions of common words in their communications in order to… well I’m not sure what purpose it’s supposed to serve. I can only say that I find it annoying when someone thinks to give me the definition, unsolicited, of a word that he should assume I know already if he doesn’t think I’m a dribbling idiot.
It’s the word-clearing fetish that Scilons have, and it’s truly condescending. This is another reason why I wouldn’t ever become a clam. I haven’t needed to use a dictionary since I was 10, and I’ll be damned if someone tells me I have to do it. And I never have an M/U.
You haven’t needed a dictionary since you were ten? Did the ten year old Espiando know the meaning of the word, “insouciant”? I had to look up that word when I was forty when reading Bonfire of the Vanities. Tom Wolf wrote, “…her insouciant thighs…”
Hi Roger Hornaday,I love words,but I always have a big dictionary and thesaurus around.”Isouciant thighs”stumped me when reading ” Bonfire of the Vanities” too.Espiando probably has x-ray eyes and a photographic memory.Although Marc Headley has everyone beat by many galaxies with his! Loved his posts on water turning on in rest rooms and all his other amazing qualities.☕️??Ann.
By the time Bonfire of the Inanities came out, Little Espiando was a college graduate and knew the definition of “insouciant”. Little Espiando also remembers reading the excerpts in Rolling Stone and not giving a shit about the novel or Tom Wolfe.
Hi Espiando,Well I am very degreed in seeing things in a different way than most.(laughter)However if we had been in the same classes I would have been frightened of your brain power.Always,Ann.
Hi Ann, although Espiando’s tastes aren’t inclusive of at least one hilarious Tom Wolf novel, his inestimable brain power, should you have had the benediction of being his classmate, would have doubtlessly been applied to motives more akin to hospitality than intimidation. I would bet a thousand dollars on it. But, mind you, not of my own money. 🙂
Hi Roger Hornaday, Love this post and you and your Insight! XXOO,Ann.
Foolproofsays
Replying to ChrisMann9’s comment above: Now most on here know me as a true blue Scientologist but I think we have to differentiate what RB is doing here. He is simply pointing out the added and unnecessary insanity interjected into the group by certain management types, notably of course “COB”. As RB says the vast majority of Scientologists are well-intentioned and actually very nice people – his cartoons in this instance are simply pointing out these added-in insanities. These insanities are actually nothing to do with Scientology as such. The Donations Industry in the Church would be a perfect example – Hubbard actually rails against this idea but Miscavige has thrown it into the Scientology pot and is ripping off the parishioners with it. So RB is correctly targeting the insanities that have been introduced into the running of the Orgs and thus I find it to be cathartic – as well as funny. The cartoons do not damage Scientology as such – they point out the departures from Scientology.
Do they really go to court for a restraining order to enforce Disconnection? I’d think there would be hesitation to involve a “wog” court, plus having to step carefully when justifying it to the court. Ah well, no doubt they have some legal boilerplate documents for that — just fill in the blanks, and cross-off a family member.
And I can vouch for the lessons! They are fantastic! Once he gets done with you, trust me, you’ll be BAD TO THE BONE… You’ll be one bad motor scooter, like me.
Hey, just a little bit of random good news:
Atlanta’s Ideal Org opening has been pushed back to January.
The only ideal Orgs that were opened this year are the IAS-sponsered ones.
Nice strategy, David.
I forgot to mention Basel, which if I remember correctly, was the only crowd-funded org that opened this year.
Anybody know why Jeopardy is on in LA on ABC at 7 pm instead of Leah and 20/20…?!
Because West Coast network TV schedules operate at the same local time as their East Coast equivalent. So if a program is set to broadcast at 10 PM ET, it gets shown at 10 PM ET, 9 PM CT, and 10 PM PT. The three-hour “delay” has been in place since the beginning of network radio broadcasting in the 1920s.
When I started my research (was considering how to design a cult for a novel idea I had), I thought that Scientology was no crazier than any other religion.
I was wrong. Scientology is is the religious equivalent of a radioactive waste dump.
I feel sorry for those still trapped inside. I’m happy so many have escaped, and hope more will make it out.
As for David Miscavige, he belongs in jail, though I have no hope of that happening.
I remember parties like that back in the 80’s with identical conversations. Once when a close friend of mine passed away, a memorial service was held for him at the house of an OTVII. His wog friends were there also, including a transgendered young woman who was totally oblivious to the fact that she should try to keep a low profile. She was very comfortable with the social dynamics of the situation having once been a scientologist in Paris. She spoke to the gathering about our friend with uncommon eloquence and wit. The wogs in the group freely laughed at her humor but the scientologists were frozen. They were either scandalized or terrified. There were furtive glances between them with undignified facial contortions. That night I took a seat on the wog side of the room and that gesture was equal to a formal announcement I had left the church of scientology.
RB was very funny. All this nonsense started in 1982. 2 years before “1984” – same mentality. Light shades of it before that and correctable but never like it became in 82 and thereafter.
Actually it was late 1981 as I recall now when Scientology started to go down the pan. Driven there of course. No accident.
I had a ‘Wog’ girlfriend, and her criticisms of Scn were the reason I was not approved to go over the rainbow to become a Gold scriptwriter. (I must remember to thank her for that!). Also, a very close friend of mine was convinced to divorce his non-Scientologist wife – he did so and regretted it for the rest of his days until he died of cancer. Another one who went to join the SO in LA and was offloaded as soon as he developed a medical condition. They also owed him money but did not pay. Most ethical group on the planet indeed.
So although the satire is hard to take at times…it isn’t because it stretches the truth, it’s because it does not.
I also feel at times that there is too much anger and hate being expressed on this site and on the Underground Bunker – but you know it is an ‘outlet’, a place to let off steam. And a lot of people have been very, very hurt by Scientology. Betrayed, lied to, demeaned, cheated, ‘spun-in’, isolated, etc.
I would agree that I met many good and well meaning individuals while on staff and as a ‘public’. But I also know of several that were not – and were in fact bat shit crazy and evil-hearted to boot. Also thievery was very common on staff. I hear it was/is even more endemic in the Sea Smorg, where you dare not leave your bar of soap or toilet paper, let alone iPod or cash, unlocked.
I’m afraid the decent, well intended individuals in the Church are far outweighed by the scum who get some kind of weird pleasure over control of others, and throwing a psychotic tantrum screaming at fellow staff members. With Captain ‘Let Him Die’ at the helm, and insane loyal minions, a decent person does not last long as a Scientologist – they must wall off their emotions and sanity until it becomes too much and they leave.
Yes I agree with what you say. If Scientology had concentrated on delivering its products – well taught students and thoroughly audited PCs, then all these nasty, bitchy and unusual management solutions, attitudes, donations and regging nonsense would never have occurred. Apparently Hubbard was aware that this might occur if one reads his message to David Mayo but why he didn’t take more steps to nip it in the bud we will never now know. This nasty attitude now prevailing for the last 30 years or so became like an infestation and now part of the body corporate, so to speak.
I hope my anger is expressed almost exclusively against the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology and not against, well, individual clams(1). But my sympathy is mainly with the non-members who are harassed and with those born into the organisation. Not that anyone makes an informed choice about joining, but some people leave a lot sooner than others – just saying…
The organisation is the thing I would like completely removed in its present form, i.e. reduced to an apology-making and compensation paying machine. The individual members should be free to do their own thing, and I think they should be free to disagree with me as much as I reserve the right to disagree with them 🙂
(`1) well, a member in good standing of the Co$ does do an awful lot of “clamming up.”
God. The ammount of times ive been involved in conversations just like these. It wasnt until i finaly put Scientology out of my life that i understood how much of a D.B. i had been turned into. We disciminated against everyone when we were in the sea org. Even against other Scientologists who werent S.O. members. They were not real scientologists. They were namby pamby pantywastes. So as funny as these skits are they are sadly true.
Hi Regraded Being, I echo other posters here and say your work just keeps on firing rockets over and into the wall of the cos/cult.It made me remember years ago,I knew a little a young lady who was true-blue Sea Org with Asho Day.I can picture her but her name escapes me.Before going on post Asho F would play volley ball in the loading dock courtyard of the org on Temple St.I was pretty much a pill at times and instead of playing I would sit on the low concrete retaining wall that went around the outside of Asho and watch the sunset and moon rise.The games really were very competitive and I stunk at volleyball so I was left to do my sky gazing.One evening this lady who was going on course after dinner,came and sat with me.She was about seven months pregnant at the time.For some reason she told me that the Dad was in Sea Org but had no intention of marriage.She said she was routing out of the SO and going to live with sympathetic friends because she would not have an abortion as she was pressured strongly to do.I did feel badly for her but she said there was no other way.After I told her good luck she left.Later I heard she had gone to her friends and I believe there was a golden rod.So sometimes only a certain side of cos is seen.RB unflinchingly gives me the whole picture and that only makes me send more love and admiration RB’s way.Love always,Ann.?Xo.
Priceless, RB. Both sad and funny.
SAD:
I’ve been witness to conversations like these which were perjorative of Scientologists having all types of relationships with non-Scientologists. Sometimes the disdain was expressed with only an eye-roll: “Her 2D is not in Scientology”…”He works for Wogs”, etc. The message was clear.
FUNNY:
Its all in your little details. This time for me it was the smoking 🙂
Spot on RB and not an exaggerated scene either. I’ve seen it and participated in it, much to my chagrin now. As for being a Scn and married to a “mere wog,” I knew a woman on OT VII who was married to an upstat wog who had paid for her entire Bridge and her entire living experience as she never worked while married. She got on the Ship for OT VIII and they refused to let her do OT VIII because she had not handled her wog husband to be a Scn. So they censured him for being wog and denied her OT VIII, but yet they gladly took all his money all along the way for donations to IAS and her Bridge. The church may not like you but they sure will take your money.
So true. So wrong. Thanks R.B.. That’s no exaggeration.
Are you in competition with yourself , dear RB ? ; You get better and better each time , with this unique ability at duplicating human phenomena. Great work.
TC
Christmann i feel like you. Lots of scientologists are not like that. But many are, no compassion
Really cob like. Ready to disconnect if they perceive that you are not with the pgm.
Some very good friends of mine became this kind of souless asshole. And they smoke, god they smoke!
One of the effects of nicotine is that it serves as a relaxant which may help calm the inter turmoil many Scientologists likely experience inside the bubble. For many of these people there has to be a subconscious twinge that what they are doing is BS.
FG, I knew a number of “compassionate, caring” Scientologists who supposedly “loved” me and thought highly of me as a Big Being, a Powerful Thetan and a definite Social Personality, who just quietly went out of comm with me with no explanation. I can only deduce that they were told something that “proved” to them that I was in disagreement with the goals of Scientology. Not one of them ever explained, not one of them ever approached me and said, “By the way, So and So told me that you blah blah blah – is that true?”. Nope, they just went out of comm. If you met these individuals you would no doubt believe that they were – are – warm, caring, kind people. But these same people had no problem dropping me quietly and without sorrow for – I don’t know, whatever they were told – not on board with Ideal Org Fundraising, not OK with IAS crush regging – maybe worse. Again I don’t know. There was no discussion on by anyone, no querying of me for my side of it. Obviously they were “warned” about me, and they dropped me.
It was an eye opening experience. None of them were my family or people upon which my business depends, thank God. But they were people whom I considered friends, people who professed high ARC for me.
It was all talk, all bullshit, FG, and talk is cheap
Compassionate is as compassionate DOES..
Caring for others shows up in deeds, not words.
And if you want to know who people really are, and what they really think of you, then look, don’t listen. Observe what they do, and observe what they don’t do.
Most of these people are now manning posts in the OTC Committees worldwide and pressuring their less “loyal” “subjects” to do even more. Quite frankly they are all in Treason to the subject as they have been instrumental in agreeing to its destruction. Thing is if the subject is ever saved from the fools that are currently ravaging it they are the types who will say “we knew it all along”.
As is SOP, having worked all the Div4 lists to death, it’s just a matter of time before the “wog” bookbuyer lists come out & public are encouraged to bring their non-SCN friends and family as “this event is for EVERYONE”. I used to squirm at the thought of newbies at these events. Now I encourage all orgs to use their Div6 & Bookbuyer lists to the max – this will ensure people fleeing in droves after just one event – never to be seen near an org again 🙂
I don’t think RB goes too far at all. And here is another development that I applaud:
http://boingboing.net/2015/10/29/anonymous-threatens-to-dump-re.html
Bravo Leah and THANK YOU for speaking up.
Once again the reflection of the group think of corporate scientologists in cartoon form. Spot on RB.
Joking aside, there is a definite ‘hat’ scientologists wear amongst themselves that defies understanding when you read their own codes and technologies. It’s as though passing the secret initiation of being a scientologist is to gain the ability to be a walking and breathing contradiction of yourself and appear to be happy about it. (However, try to get a scientologist to tell you what happiness is… good luck with that, all you’ll hear is 3rd (group) dynamic ramblings of impossible goals and dreams).
A scientologist spends the vast majority of their time justifying themselves rather than engaging in the product of life itself – living!
They truly can’t see the forest because of the trees – they’re nuts!
I Yawn, Interesting you notice that “A scientologist spends the vast majority of their time justifying themselves” I’ve been consciously weeding that out of my thoughts for the last year or so. It’s beginning to be gone more then there 🙂 [and no, it wasn’t a BT LOL]
So ex so. And I will attest while this is satire it is very close to truth. Yes that is how scientologist think. And yes they smoke alot. Thanks mike. We love you man.
Of course they smoke a lot! They don’t want to get cancer….
Exactly! What turns it on, turns it off.
Puff puff puff, mmm… it’s great!
Hey, as LRH stated, “Smoking doesn’t cause cancer. Not smoking enough causes cancer.” You can’t wonder why they use the Alice in Wonderland book.
I feel like I’ve lost something, or something…
My sentiments exactly!
A smoker friend of mine from high school days died of lung cancer at 53. Her family had long nagged her to stop and occasionally she would try for a bit, never for long. This family feels guilty because it believes that it was the failure to get her to permanently quit caused her death. Now, if the family were in the cult, they would believe that not smoking enough caused her death, and would feel guilty about the times they persuaded her to stop.
Comrade Regraded Being hit the nail, squarely on the head. No, all these things don’t happen at any one clam party, but in totality, they do happen. Clams do watch their tongues in public, but not in private.
While clams love to ‘convert’, they will only do it on their terms. If a wog doesn’t buy in to the whole scam, they will be disposed of, quietly and without sorrow. But only after sucking out all the money they can.
Another great one RB. For those of you who don’t get it, like Mike said above don’t be so literal and it IS satire. Having said that…
For the record I have witnessed derogatory statements about dating or marrying a “wog” or god forbid being friends with one. And have also witnessed the invalidating comments to individuals going to college for degrees and how they should join Sear Org and/or staff for “the better good”. Personally a staff member tried to impress upon me that completing high school was a waste of time and I should just join staff. Luckily I never did. During all those years of studying to be an auditor and going up the bridge, I was often treated like I was just a “dilettante public”. Nastiness is not just reserved for “wogs”. RB I would love to see a panel on that, the staff vs. public mentality.
RB this was again brilliant.
+100 Ms. P!
The Cult will wither and die of it’s own self inflicted wounds. Many with good intentions who have helped the cause have to deal with the consequences. I am among them.
I really appreciate RB for his perception and wit and his efforts continue to challenge people both in and out of the Cult. Long live RB! Oh yeah, don’t forget the Standing O and the stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight…………..!
Yes Ms.P, I remember when Megan Shields was thinking about going to med school, and $cn execs were trying to talk her out of it. Now they can’t wait to slap her name onto their Narconon letterhead to “prove” they have a medically supervised program.
Hi Lynn, I knew Megan back in the day when she was in school. I remember well the pressure she got. And how right you are, how convenient that she can now be used for the betterment of the church.
Plus Megan rubber stamps everyone as OK to do the Purif (for the first, second, third time) etc
I’ve also seen numerous people abandon degree courses so they can become fully fledged culties. As to being with wogs – I had to have a metered interview when I said I had a relationship with a non-scn, I just wish this had been enough to persuade me to leave, a that time though I was still a believer.
Also I well remember the bs interviews where they tried to talk me into giving up a well paid job so I could join staff – idiots they live in cloud cuckoo land not the real world where it costs money to live.
There were IAS events where newbies were encouraged to come along, some of them even donated money, and yes they were never seen again, its a fantastic scare tactic to kill off possible interest.
Ms P, you’re right on the money. Wog education? Are you kidding? That’s strictly for Wogs!
Boy, did I hear a lot that when I was in. I think, though, that those who have joined staff or the SO are so miserable, they want everyone else miserable. Hey misery loves company! And that’s exactly what the cult produces: Misery. And you’re right, nastiness is not just for Wogs. In the cult, nastiness is pervasive.
“I think, though, that those who have joined staff or the SO are so miserable, they want everyone else miserable”.
I always thought that. Staff and SO would mock up happiness and uptone-ness but I was never convinced that they actually COULD be happy living like that.
What I WAS convinced of was that I could never be happy living like that and I felt guilty about it, like they were Big Beings Who Can Make All Their Dynamics Go Right, while I was in reality this petty, little being concerned about running my business, paying my bills, etc.
For many years I felt guilty about this, about not joining staff. Somehow THEY were happy but I knew I’d be completely miserable working those hours with the spectre of poverty hovering always near.
After I left I realized that they weren’t happy at all; it was just an act, for the public’s benefit. Staff HAD to act like they were thrilled with their jobs so that WE the public WOULD somehow imbibe the (false) notion that being on staff or in the SO made all your flows open and your dynamics all work together etc. etc.
I also saw what an act they put on about their relationships. Staff marriages and 2D’s are always the greatest – always, and then one day, they’re divorced, but somehow, and you’re kind of surprised, because here is this happy couple with this great relationship, you thought, and now they’re divorced. But guess what? Their divorce is ALSO the greatest. Yes! These breakups were never communicated as losses. Their divorces were ALWAYS big wins for them! I never could understand it, and of course, I introverted and thought there was something definitely wrong with ME.
Ah yes, the PR strategems of staff and SO. No matter what they’re doing, no matter what they’re not doing, it is ALWAYS fantastic, and they’re so uptone and fullfilled and flourishing and prospering and and and…
And one day I realized what a huge act they’d been putting on, and that they couldn’t wait to route off staff, and that their lives sucked just as much if not a good deal more than mine did, except that it had never occurred to me to pretend that my life was terrific if it were not, or that I felt great if or when I did not.
Wow, Aqua, great post! You’re right on all issues. When I went up to Pasadena for my 40 year high school reunion, I hung out on the side walk talking to the staff of the org. This was 2011. Nobody was taking their offer to see the intro films. NO ONE. The receptionist, standing by me, had huge BIs. You could look at her face and know she absolutely HATED what she was doing. She really didn’t hide her feelings well. The next time I came back, almost the entire staff was different.
And, Aqua, they have to pretend that EVERYTHING IS JUST FANTASTIC! Otherwise they’d be invalidating scientology. And saying their divorces were FANTASTIC is what’s expected of them.
When I was on staff, no one was happy. We’d work our butts off for $25 a week! Many weeks we got NOTHING. However, it’s probably all my fault as I just couldn’t make it go right…..
BTW, Aqua, you ARE the prize that people are striving for. There’s nothing outside of yourself. You are eternal consciousness. You’re always been and you always will be….
Hi Chrissman9,
With very few exceptions all Scientologists I’ve known have shown themselves to be very nice, well intentioned people. That does not take away from the fact that many behave in what I consider to be a socially destructive manner. The scenes I’ve drawn are taken from similar situations I’ve observed or have read or heard about from the experiences of others. Putting all of these situations in one setting is indeed a bit extreme but these viewpoints do exist and these things do happen within the church. Self-determinism has been redefined to ‘Marching to the beat of COBs little drum.’ I do appreciate your comment and thank you for expressing it to me. I hope you do continue reading the cartoons and letting me know when they feel “off” .
Sweet reply, and shows what a great person RB is.
For what it’s worth, I found the comments much more readable before they were turned upside-down and backwards. Now it is really hard to follow. The only thing that’s ever been good upside-down and backwards is Albert King playing a Gibson Flying V.
I agree
I love your Andres Rodriguez parody in the fifth panel.
Ah, yes. The man who was telling a bunch of public that the L.A. Org had 700 new people coming in EVERY WEEK. And then he said, “It’s happening! It is! It is! It is!” Almost sounds like he’s trying to convince himself……
I read Mikes blog daily but usually skip over Friday’s because I never really understand them. Except for today. This “wog” is me. I am dating a scientologist and have been for some time. At first he would talk about it with me but when I started asking questions or wondered why you had to pay to get deeper into the religion he stopped trying to convince me of its awesomeness.
The more I dig into this nonsense, the harder it is for me to understand how this intelligent, caring man believes this drivel.
Why is there a special language for Scientology?
Is it to make one feel superior?
Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies?
Why, when evidence and facts are presented do otherwise rational people shut down and attack truth as lies? Isn’t one of the main tenents of this faith “if it’s true for you then it’s true?” So ex-scientologist , ALL OF THEM are not telling their truths?
Here is what I liken this to. The children in the Catholic Church who were molested is disgraceful and abhorrent. I believe these people are telling the truth about their abuse (I am a Catholic). If I acted like a scientologist I would stick my fingers in my ears and sing “I’m not listening!” And accuse them of being liars who are trying to ruin the church. However, as a rational person I can see that the overwhelming evidence tells me this tragedy happened.
What goes on in a Scientology brain to block out rationale in this one part of their lives?
I really consider leaving this man based on the fact that he believes this crap. Otherwise he is a loving, decent man. My fear is that if we ever lived together he might drop the facade and try and brainwash me. (Never going to happen btw)
Any insight?
Wow! That is a tough position you are in. My only advice from someone who was born into this cult some 60 years ago would be to force him to open his eyes and read what is really going on with SCN. If he refuses, leave him. Also, if he refuses to research about the real activities of the church, SCN policies will force him to disconnect from you and leave you anyway because you apparently are an “enemy” of the cult. Search articles about C of S on the Tampa Bay Times website. They’ve done a great job of reporting about the cult leader and his and the church’s criminal activities. Good luck to you.
In time, over on ESMB there have been several people in a situation like yours. However hard this may sound: the advice from the overwhelming majority there was to leave the guy you’re with.
I was never in, so it’s easy for me to say. I trust you’ll be given good advice for your situation, here or on ESMB ( http://www.forum.exscn.net/ ).
All the best on making a good and informed but also hard decision.
The reason I recommend attempting to have him “see the light” is perhaps it would result in another active member, waking up and leaving the church plus perhaps it will work out for them.
All I can add here is my own experience. I have been in your boyfriend’s shoes trying to introduce a new girlfriend to scientology. Even though I was a true believer, I always found it very embarrassing and uncomfortable because of the cognitive dissonance that you describe in your post. Fortunately I was never successful in converting anyone.
Trying to understand and describe the ‘scientology mindset’ is very difficult even for ex-scientologists. I can’t explain it myself, but I have found a couple of resources on the internet VERY helpful. Chris Shelton does an excellent job at this and his blog is full of helpful videos and articles. If you like your whiskey straight, try the Jason Beghe interviews on YouTube. He pulls no punches lays it on the line from a different viewpoint. Both are invaluable. Those are just for starters.
http://mncriticalthinking.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
Thanks msbhaven and everyone else. I’ve watched Jason’s interview. In fact, that was one of the first things I watched after I read the article about Paul Haggis. My thinking is that my friend has been in so long that his entire life is wrapped up in it. Friends and family. For him to confront the truth would be tantamount to having no past. He is not that involved at all but will go to a mission after they pester him enough.
I do not want to be that person to try and open his eyes. I don’t have enough knowledge about it all to make what he would think to be a valid argument. I would get the same stock answers he’s given and that I’ve read about.
My gut says flee.
You might suggest to him that all the benefits of scientology are available in the Free Zone, without the high prices and abusive tactics, since most of the most highly trained people left to practice independently. But if his real connection is to family and friends, rather than an attachment to the actual practice of auditing, this may not appeal to him.
When you said “For him to confront the truth would be tantamount to having no past” hits the nail DIRECTLY on the head. This is what every ex-scientologist has had to look straight in the eye in one way or another. In fact, we have had to look at not only admitting that we were duped by the world’s greatest con but also by the ‘fact’ that we would be surrendering our ‘eternity’ as well. This is no easy task for anyone, especially 2nd & 3rd gens who don’t know what actually really exists outside the bubble. After one gets out and gets some space, it eventually becomes clear that there is no one that can take away your ‘eternity’, that was part of the imaginary prison scientology helped erect in your mind. The part about being duped is just something one has to accept and take it as a learning experience and move on.
I’m not one to give advice very often, but I have found for myself that gut instinct is more often right than wrong. Perhaps fleeing would be the best thing for all concerned. If it helps wake your boyfriend up and helps him grow a set big enough to confront what is actually right in front of him, it could be the best gift that you could ever give him no matter the outcome for you. Best of luck and best wishes for both of you…
Hi Thisisme, I just read Ms. B Haven’s wise post and it rang very true for me.If your gut instinct is telling you to flee,I feel there is an enormous red flag waving at you.Yet I well understand it took me many many months of blood sweat and tears,before I could blow from The Sea Org.You have to do what is right for you and I send you love and light,Ann.
For Thisisme, you will never be first in his life. You will find a place that is after Hubbard, a dead charlatan, after Miscavige, a still-living charlatan, after his superiors in the church, and even after his family. Too, you will find that he has no trouble writing up Knowledge Reports on you. His family might as well.
If he does not love you more than all that, and gives it up willingly, then you are settling for far less than you are worth.
And speaking of worth, expect, too, that all of your money will go toward the church. And you may well incur marital debt that holds little to no value for you, but you may be the one paying it off. If you have children, they will be treated as small human beings indebted to the church. You may see them signed up in the Sea Org while they are still children. And you may be persuaded to enroll them in less-than-stellar Scientology schools. You will have less say over your kids than you might think.
Is this how you want to live your life? Good luck to you.
“For Thisisme, you will never be first in his life. You will find a place that is after Hubbard, a dead charlatan, after Miscavige, a still-livingcharlatan,afterhissuperiors in the church, and even after his family. Too, you will find that he has no trouble writing up Knowledge Reports on you. His family might as well.”
It is incredible how Thisisme’s love partner has been judged here by quite a few posters w/out even having given him the chance to prove himself. “He’ll leave you” , “He’ll prefer LRH over you” , “He’ll choose the CofS over the relationship” , “He’ll write a K/R on you” , blah, blah, blah. Have we became astrologers now , is that it ? Are we so inclined to declare someone guilty even before he has acted just because we might have had our own bad experiences in the area ?
Does the “virtue” now consist in how to avoid a future pain, and protecting our own interests, and to hell with the well being of others ? Are we going to be selfish now on the 2D , and only stay if it doesn’t represent any “Dev-T” or inconvenience to us ? Is that really a sane 2D ,or just an extension of our own first Dynamic ? Is love really tied to our religious beliefs ? Or is love tolerant and understanding ? Do we need to have the same religious beliefs to be compatible with someone ? Or can our differences makes a realationship more challenging and interesting ?
Is love about “convenience” , or is it about making allowances, and learning to accept others for what they are ? Is it about self-protection or about mutual help and caring for each other ? Is it about forcing our beliefs in others, or about finding the beauty in our differences ?
For love is more than an extension of our own first Dynamics where the emphasis is placed in the inflow of sensations instead of the flow of admiration towards those we love.
We humans certainly have a VERY LONG road to travel to understand what a real Second Dynamic looks like and should be.
TC
Wow thetaclear. So beautifully put.
Thanks, Thisisme.
I wish you the best in your journey. I won’t be unrealistict with you neither ; Scientology is the most insidiously destructive cult of the 20th century , with a never seen before ability to unduly influence the behavior, thoughts, information, and emotions (Steve Hassan’s BITE model for explaining Undue Influence) of the cult adherent. Parishioners are frequently under an unsuspecting hypnotic trance which totally blinds them to reality. And getting them to realize that is not an easy task at all, but can be done, nevertheless , if one fully understand the mechanism behind undue influence. That’s why I recommended those links and websites to you.
On his website, Freedom of Mind ( wwe.freedomofmind.com ) , Hassan has a “contact section” where you can reach him and ask him anything you wish. He is a very polite, helpful and resourceful individual who is fully aware of Scientology as a cult. You can watch his many videos , and learn a lot from him. The first step on understanding any condition, is to learn everything we can about it with experts in the field. Then we are equiped to do something about it.
I have experience in getting other Scientologists to realize about the cultic nature of Scientology. I recently got a dear friend out of it after a well thought strategy that lasted a few months , but ended up in the victory of Free Will, Self-determinism, and Freedom of Thought. Nothing pleases me more in life than to see and enslaved mind free itself of strict dogmas and authoritarian approaches to truth. So it can definitively be done provided that we are educated on how to do it, and provided that we possesses the patience and tolerance level required for this task.
This process is one that works on gradients. Do not expect him to wake up in one day or one week ; this is a rather long process (weeks or months) . As I was involved myself in the cult for 3 decades, I have a better perspective of what it takes to free onself from it than many cult experts who never have been in Scientology, but in other different cults.The easier approach that I have found is not to get the Scientologist to realize that LRH was a fraud, but to realize as a first step that the Church itself is violating and altering his writings and policies resulting in the suppression of the parishioners.
David Miscavige should be made, temporarily as LRH IS really the underlying cause of all of this, the reason for all the debacle. Then when the individual is already off-lines and away from the Church’s control, one can start working then , on step 2 of the strategy : realizing that Scientology as a philosophy as such is a destructive cult, and has always been. But once the person is out, he might wish to continue practicing Scnientology (training, auditing, etc) , and that’s all right ; nothing wrong with that. He probably won’t support the destructive policies and practices, but mostly want to participate in the therapy aspect itself , what we call, “auditing”.
Scientology would have turned at this stage, in a rather inoffensible religious practice that he uses to get wins and gains, not to suppress the rights of others with it. He’ll be free now to read many blogs and websites on the subject of Scn , and make his own INDEPENDENT judgement about it , which is really the end product of the handling, not whether or not he throw the baby out with the bath water. That is not the end purpose, as we should never impose in others in what to believe or not. He’ll probably realize, eventually, that LRH was just full of shit in so many ways, but hey, just let him be and enjoy your win.
Feel free to contact me if you wish to do so.
Best regards,
Peter
That’s one aspect I find all too real about the ‘scientology effect’ in that it creates an almost overwhelming desire to have it explained to you by someone else. To seek answer after answer until apparently the right one comes along and zzzzz, all better, but generally it’s never quite good enough, getting ripped off and betrayed is a bitch. I’m not being critical of anyone here. More than once in my life (away from scientology) for example, sitting in the bush with a rifle playing armies I’ve seriously asked myself “wtf am I doing here,” and trying to fathom why such a dangerous, confusing situation is accepted and maintained by so many. Some taxes and govt incentives/decisions are like that too.
Finding oneself in a shitty situation every now and again comes as requisite for being human I suppose. I know of no one who has hasn’t.
I do agree with Mike as to stopping the abuses within and the self assessed survival tactics of corporate scientology is the best focus and then let’s see how the situation looks after that. It all might defuse with dm being thrown in jail but trying to stamp out religious cults has been an ongoing situation in earth’s history, just ask the Inca’s and maybe those who volunteered for the Crusades (what in the hell were they thinking?) etc..
Finding peace within yourself is achieved how ever you achieve it and the quicker you can do that the better. Negativity can be a consuming thing if focused on too much or for too long.
Thisisme,
When beliefs become challenged, emotions run high and cognitive dissonance kicks in. I tried the force route, using my emotions (usually anger which was generated from ultimate anger with myself) to convince family to look at the facts.
Success rate …………. zero! It’s been years since I’ve seen the kids. Maybe one day they will come up for some fresh air. But, I think it is completely acceptable to continue to challenge beliefs using communication. At some point you will reach a fork in the road ……….. go with your gut instincts and may the force be with you.
Someone once said something along the lines that ‘life is in you today, never regret yesterday because it is gone. Your future remains, do with it what you will. And on that note……
Yo Dave,
Howz it goin today you hammered piece of ratshit. Don’t forget to check out 20/20 tonight. You might want to get your KCET (Krapper Corner for Eternal Thetans) studios fired up and do a rebuttal; hell, you could do a live version of Freedum Mag and have Marion Pouw interview you. Go get em good buddy!
I agree – trying to use any force has worse than zero effect, it tends to re-enforce their certainty. The only real thing you can rely on is that scn will start to piss them off and not provide the advertised results. Constant badgering for donations, being called 20 times for an event, tons of junk mail, processes which don’t do what they are supposed to all work to wear those with less than 100% certainty down, but it takes years and in some cases will never happen.
The other thing to be aware of is that being with a scn is like being with a junkie with a really bad habit, thousands of dollars just disappear into the black hole of scn. I estimate I spent $270,000 before I got out a few years ago, I have zero to show for this, other than the IAS receipts which I’ve held onto as evidence of my own idiocy.
Yeah but think of the knowledge that you now have that you want others to know about! That’s a $270,000.00 success story.
Alas, mine was more expensive and I likely have less to show for it! 🙂
This is me i have insight. You probably wont win this relashionship. Scientology had a terrible terrible track record with a scientologist and non scientologist trying to stay together. Especially is they are really into it. Dont get sucked in. Ibwas in for 7 years and trust me they are not worth it. Either they leave scientology or you leave them. Hard truth but the truth. Is pure poison.
Same thing for me. I tried to be in the group for a while, but it never made sense to me and soon saw it for the money making business it is. I kept hoping that she would see the “light” as she was a wonderful person except for this blind side. I would show her things on Yahoo, show her the misleading facts in the events, but to no avail. I thought I could ignore the differences, but over time it because too much to live with–the secrets, etc. Eventually, Flag told her to break up with me, but it was for the best. This went on for 12 years though–a waste of time–yes in some ways. I remember an old saying “you are not going to change anyone in a relationship no matter hard you try”. Unfortunately it seems to be true.
Strong is the Kool-Aid in that woman, Pete2. Very strong…
A short, 100% true story. When I started going out with my now wife I had been “in” for about 20 years, she was a “WOG”. My FSM Pavan Fraser expressed grave reservations about it several times. (The same Pavan Fraser who lost close to $1 million on the Reed Slatkin ponzi scheme). She would say it would never end well, a Scientologist marrying a WOG was going to be bad news. And that WAS the prevailing think inside the bubble. When I was on staff I myself would try to “handle” public who were dating WOGs. They “wouldn’t understand”, they wouldn’t “get it” etc etc. The same sort of pressure in microcosm that is applied to pregnant women on staff or in the Sea Org. Having a baby would be “Dev-T” it wouldn’t be the “greatest good”, on and on. Pushing guilt buttons. Of course most Scientologists are inherently decent – that’s not the point. The point is that fundamentalism will inevitably lead people to do bad things. When Jeff Pomerantz did his IAS “make-me-rich” briefings, he would usually start by asking “For who here has Scientology saved their life?” And though clearly it was a nonsense question, pretty much everyone in the room would put up their hand. Thereby setting the tone for what was to follow: “So what WOULDN’T you do for something that has changed your life?” Pretty insidious and very clever, but it IS where Scientology leads. As Marty said, Tom Cruise is what the End Phenomena of Scientology looks like – arrogant, totally certain, completely right, a little crazed, but ruthless with a take-no-prisoners attitude.
I take it that you are still married to your “wog”? And that you’re an ex-scn? What made you see the light? What was your turning point?
If you want more info about exes who speak out you may find this list interesting
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
> 2.600 names on it!
Yeah, baby!!! Great news!
Thisisme – Many have already given you a lot to think about. My own experience – I lost a non-Scientologist soulmate because I was unwilling to look at the info she had read online. I thought it would be “compromising my integrity”, and I had been witness to some actual false reporting by journalists, so I thought any attacks were more of the same. Plus, I had had benefits from Scientology as a subject, that I confused with the organization So, she had a hard time convincing me, and sadly, that was that. It was only until I saw people I had known or seen previously, speaking up on CNN (including Mike) some years later, that I began to research for myself and started to see the light. If you really have something special and are willing to wait long enough, he may reach his boiling point. There is probably some reason that he is not too involved and keeping some distance at this point. I’m also Catholic, so just be aware that it is taught that Christianity is a “hypnotic suggestion” given to people between lives, like other religions, (which I used to believe) and Hubbard’s views on Christ ranged from saying he did not exist at all to allegedly saying he was a pedophile and homosexual. That last viewpoint was supposedly removed from the upper level materials, but if you were to become a Scientologist, you would run into a dilemma at some point, even though the public stance of the CoS is that it is open to people of all religions. Hope some of this is helpful.
PS – Very funny as always, RB! Maybe some exaggeration because it is all condensed into one event, but it is based on truth. Great reactions of the girlfriend’s face! lol
As to Leah – don’t mess with Brooklyn!
Yes and yes to the questions Thisisme – 15th wedding anniversary coming up soon. Funny thing too, our wonderful first child was conceived on the 6th floor of the Fort Harrison (sorry of that was too much information). What FINALLY made me wake up was the Truth Rundown seeing many people I knew personally of the utmost integrity speaking the truth calmly, without malice or spite. http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/part1.shtml
Thisisme, I hate to tell you this but I have to agree with the other comments. You see I was one of those Scientologists living with a non-Scientologist. This guy loved me very much and tried very hard to convert.
Mistake #1 was letting him attend with me the event that announced the passing of LRH (I knew better but he insisted). He walked away from that event thinking we were nuts.
Mistake #2 was letting him join me on my trip to Flag for review auditing. He thought the Sea Org was wacko. When I returned home many weeks later with a humongous review debt, this sent him OVER THE EDGE.
Needless to say the relationship didn’t work out. In hindsight he was right.
I’m sure you are dating a wonderful guy but in the end the horrendous influence of the ethics officer is going to make him choose between you or his “eternity”. I really hope you can make him see the light but it will take kid gloves. Good luck, keep us posted.
You know, Ms. P, I’m so very glad that I got out before I got married. My life has been great, but, would have had problems if I had been in. Whew! What a relief!
Hi OSD, Yes and a huge sigh with your post.If I had stayed in well,I am glad I met-never in hubby when out, or the relationship would never ever been allowed to go forward! We are both blessed by a brighter light or lights in our cases ( life partners) than those still in can see or understand.Love,Ann.
I so glad everything worked out for you and your husband! I sometimes look back and wonder, “How could I have been so stupid?” But being out and living life on MY terms if the best revenge….
Hi OSD,Spell kill! I meant those in cannot see or understand!Ann.
I call them ‘senior moments.’ I have them on an hourly basis……
ThisIsMe, (I hope this goes to you, clicked on reply under your post)
I’m a never-in but my sister has lived in Clearwater for 25 years and through her I met a famous celeb sports figure (not that many in sports) and I watched him suck a beautiful friend of mine into the Scilons after we were all business partners for over the last decade. My sister just read Regraded Being and knows of a few instances the cartoon rings true to her from having run into so many over the years including ex’ers. Over the years since I’ve been a partner with a Scilon I’ve watched the Scilons try to woo me with beautiful women, musicians such as OT8 John Novello (spent an afternoon with him and I will say he was a true gentleman thought I didn’t buy into it) and being invited to Krustie Alley’s house (wouldn’t go near here and would call the police if any Scilon tried to make friends with me, that is how I currently feel about the cult, they can’t be honest about their motives either to you or to their superiors, so they are doomed to incongruence of action and good intention). Many on the Bunker know the story of my OT2 friend who I will try to confront one more time after she threatened disconnection but backed off because I might now be her last non-Scilon close friend. Just my bringing up entheta caused her to have to do a ‘sec check’ and pay for it and I think she was forced to do the Truth Rundown as I came out with full guns blazing but looking back it was the wrong way. I had real evidence of the fraud of the cult, including the shooped pictures from Freedom Mag, but of course she was trained to handle all those objections. She backed down when I told her I could prove my claims to her superiors or I would pay restitution of 10K and put it up front in writing and she realized I was not afraid of her superiors.
I’m taking counsel from Mockingbird and Pluvo over on the Bunker and spoke on phone with Tory Christman who had some great ideas about how to confront her using Hubbard and her own axioms to get her to think outside the Scilon box. She knows I am powerful when I confront and now is scared to talk to me because as others have warned you, her superior will punish him in the end if you dare bring up too much. Your relationship is doomed to end not likely in a healthy way but has a chance to grow postively if you can get him to explore a search for truth together. Just follow your spirit which led you here on this day and listen to the wise counsel of those who replied before me. I think the best path would be to get him on the phone with a ex-scilon and there are many who would volunteer.
My heart and my prayers that you find the next right indicated thing are going out to you!
Thisisme : “The more I dig into this nonsense, the harder it is for me to understand how this intelligent, caring man believes this drivel.”
Peter : Dear Thisisme , I think that you need to find out more about the subject called a “cult”. There are a lot of good Websites about it that you can study so that you can understand the mechanism behind the blindness to truth that you are describing. One particular excellent source is the works of Steve Hassan. You can find his videos at Youtube. He has also written a few excellent works on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw-oF-Z_I7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5HRyINb9Ow
https://www.freedomofmind.com/
This other link is about the website of the “International Cultic Studies Association” (ICSA) , a group on international cult experts , which has many resources as well :
http://www.icsahome.com/
My advice to you would be to get thoroughly educated on the subject so that you can have the correct tools to deal with your dilemma. There is no substitute for finding answers to the problems of life as getting educated on the problematic area.
Thisisme : “Why is there a special language for Scientology?
Is it to make one feel superior?”
Peter : Not necessarily so , dear Thirisme. New “philosophies” frequently adopt a new vocabulary to describe observable phenomena ; it is called its nomenclature. This tendency exists in others practices as well as in medicine , psychology , computer , etc. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with that.
Thisisme : “Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies? Why does one get so angry when reasonable questions are asked about their policies?”
Peter : It is the effect of something called “Undue Influence”. Google search it and study it well. Here is a link for an academic article on it :
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UNSWLJ/2003/3.html
For a more friendly non-academic treatment of the subject , this is a good star :
http://aawa.co/blog/what-is-undue-influence/
Thisisme : “Why, when evidence and facts are presented do otherwise rational people shut down and attack truth as lies? Isn’t one of the main tenets of this faith “if it’s true for you then it’s true?” So ex-scientologist , ALL OF THEM are not telling their truths?”
Peter : It is just the effects of being under the undue influence of a cult , dear ; that’s all. There is nothing more to it.
As to your dilemma regarding your love partner , I can only say , that using Marta Steward’s type of “advice” , or Cosmopolitan magazine “tips” isn’t going to help you neither. “Just leave him” , “Fleet” , “Force him to read , and dump him if he refuses to…” , etc , etc , are only manifestations of how thoroughly fuck-up we humans are on the area of what Scientologists call the 2D (Second Dynamic-sex, relationships , family, etc-)
The “modern” tendency when something is not working properly is to just leave. What the hell happened with loyalty , honor , perseverance , hope and faith ? Are these things no longer important ?
Does this guy treat you as his queen ? Is he kind to you ? Is he loyal ? Is he kind to others ? Is he a hard working man ? Yes ? Then what does it matter dear ? Faith is just that , Faith. You can decide to either help him with patience , understanding (by getting educated on the subject of cults) , and religious tolerance ; or you can listen to Cosmopolitan type of advice ; your choice.
Man is a brute gender , dear ; most of us are. We are very selfish when it come to the 2D. It is not easy these days to find a decent , kind , hard working man ; they do not abound. A lot of us that function perfectly in the 3D (third dynamic- work , groups , etc) , yes. A lot of us , being intelligent and dependable , yes. But on the 2D we are generally a disaster , I got to confess.
So if this man of yours is intelligent , kind to you , detailed , and really care for you , then it is your duty to return the flow, and give him the chance to change. Otherwise , we all might as well quit this 2D game.
Best regards ,
Peter
Thetaclear- thanks for your thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about. I am not looking for the reality television answer to my dilemma. Ultimately, I am looking for a way to co-exist if that is possible. I figured this was the best place to get information. He is an amazing person. And in reading so many blogs and comments, find that the vast majority of people here are genuinely good people.
” Thetaclear- thanks for your thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about.”
TC : You are most welcome ; I am glad it was of help to you.
“I am not looking for the reality television answer to my dilemma. Ultimately, I am looking for a way to co-exist if that is possible.”
TC : I think is possible. When one really loves someone, one accept that person for what he/she is. This doesn’t mean that we tolerate the parts of their personality that are destructive to others. But it certainly mean that we are tolerant to his/her beliefs. W/out faith and something to believe in , our lives becomes a burdersome unending boredom. Faith gives meaning to life ; it makes it livable.
The real lasting love frequently makes sacrifices and is something one has to work very hard on. It is not easy to leave a cult, and once one has physically left it, we might remain mentally and spiritually stuck to it even years after. But if one understand the mechanisms behind it, if one learn to be tolerant of the religious beliefs of those we care about , if we give them space and time to change and adapt, we win at the end , and a great lasting relationship based on mutual care and understanding results.
Patience and tolerance are always the best tools ; and even if it doesn’t work in the end, you still will have a dear friend instead of just an “ex”.
“I figured this was the best place to get information. He is an amazing person. And in reading so many blogs and comments, find that the vast majority of people here are genuinely good people.”
TC : I am glad that he is. And you are right about that ; there are a lot of incredible individuals in this blog.
Much success in your path. That you came here looking for answers and understanding is evidence enough that he is a VERY lucky man indeed.
Best regards,
Peter
One more thing as i reflect. The cult is dying but you should not stand still waiting for him to awaken. Truth withstands any attack and you came here today seeking resolution. There are those on the Bunker who make their comments public. I was thinking who might give you some insight. Derek at the Bunker has his comments public. You can also email him and he’d be ideal to give you some feedback. Just go the Bunker and click on his Disqus name and read his comments and you’ll get some great feedback scrolling through his comments. He among many others have opened my eyes about the brainwashing that will occur to a great degree, however much resistance your boyfriend puts up. There are other great sources as there are on this blog, and many of the people here can be found over there. I just know Disqus is a cool way to learn from public comments.
Hi Thisisme. Sorry to hear that you skip over Fridays on Mikes blog, but I understand. The cartoons are intended for those who may be under the radar but stil-in and those who’ve been there and left. I have also discovered that there is also a group of never-been-in folk who have learned to speak and understand Scientologese. I know that if you are not one of the above, the cartoons may have no meaning.
My point……
I have been married for over thirty years to a person that I brought into Scientology. I would describe my spouse as spiritual yet pragmatic in as much that this person would never hesitate to openly speak their mind when they sensed or observed contradictions between the church’s scriptures and it’s actions. (this happened often) I’ve experiences three separate occasions where the church staff tried to get me to divorce my spouse but quickly realized that they would lose me before that happened so they grudgingly increased their tolerance level of my better half. This was only done because I provided a service that was valuable to the staff and public of the Org I was a member of.
When I did finally decide to leave the church, my spouse basically said, “It’s about time, I was wondering when you would come around to realise that, that group is really not what it pretends to be.” I was very fortunate to be connected to this person.
Though I cannot give you any real workable advise towards what you should do about your boyfriend, I can tell you this; If you do not join the Church of Scientology and play along with whatever is asked of you by that group, they will (underlined) try to interfere with your relationship with your boyfriend. I really do hope he loves you very much because if you do not become a dedicated Scientologist they will at some point have him make a choice. I do hope that if it comes to that, he chooses you.
Good comment and advice to Thisisme, Regraded Being. I second that motion. But Thisisme, just know that it will (underlined and bolded type) come to a point when your boyfriend is asked to choose between you and his eternity. He will have tons of pressure put on him to break up with you and kick you to the curb. And it doesn’t even matter that he loves you. That he loves you goes without saying. I have seen kids disconnect from their parent whom they love very much, all because of the undue influence of the church in telling them they have to disconnect from you. It will be hard, but I say you need to drop him now rather than later, to save more heartache. If you would like to try to enlighten him about the cult before you leave, that is your choice. But I tried to enlighten my kids to the cult and even though they loved me enormously and vice versa, they disconnected. They refused to listen to or read my references from LRH that proved the church had gone squirrel. The MAA and execs forced them to disconnect from a mother who had risen to the top of the Bridge and was one of the most “valuable beings on the planet” because she was an auditor. That love and that status in the church didn’t save the relationship. The church won out over me and with hundreds of others that they forced the disconnection policy on.
Hi Cindy. I am certain that the scientology organization will fall like a house of cards in the not too distant future. You’ll get your kids back.
Thank you Regraded Being. I hope you are right! I”ll keep the faith.
Cindy : “It will be hard, but I say you need to drop him now rather than later, to save more heartache. If you would like to try to enlighten him about the cult before you leave, that is your choice. But I tried to enlighten my kids to the cult and even though they loved me enormously and vice versa, they disconnected. They refused to listen to or read my references from LRH that proved the church had gone squirrel. The MAA and execs forced them to disconnect from a mother who had risen to the top of the Bridge and was one of the most “valuable beings on the planet” because she was an auditor. That love and that status in the church didn’t save the relationship. The church won out over me and with hundreds of others that they forced the disconnection policy on.”
With all due respect to your opinions , dear Cindy ; but that is a VERY pessimist and conformist viewpoint. “You need to drop him him now rather than later” , what can of advice is that ? Is he an object now ? What kind of responsibility level is that ? Only a defeated Scientologist could have such a viewpoint.
Look , I am really sorry for what you went through ; that was inhuman and suppressive. But adopting a defeated viewpoint is not going to help anybody neither. Fight back for your rights , dear Cindy , never give up.
Thisisme , I know quite a few Scientologist friends who had non-Scientologists as wife/husbands. Even thought that the Church attempted to separate them , they never succeeded. There is nothing to be gained from backing off from confronting life. It is my conviction , that when one is being suppressed , the only solution is to fight back and never surrender. This is not a philosophic talk from Peter ; I have ACTUALLY put my advice in practice in my life. I never surrendered to SPs and unduly individuals. To do so is a confession of being in apathy.
If you need my help to guide you through it , please feel free to contact me. Just email the contact section on this blog , and ask Rinder for my personal e-mail. It takes some training on cultism and handling black propaganda to deal with this ; I have both , as well as training in Intelligence. The key to handling this kind of situations , is to not try to get the person away from the cult. That’s not the purpose and goal of the handling. The goal is to give the person back his free will , self-esteem , and willingness to think for himself. “Handling” him to leave the cult or else , or doing it compulsively just doesn’t work. Take my word for it. You need to give his self back to him , teach him to observe things by himself , and teach him as well how to recover critical thinking.
He is not going to just die because he is in a cult. Tolerance , patience , determination , and courage are the best tools. Correct strategy is everything in this. I am a pretty good strategists. I am here if you need me. Your choice. Whatever you decide is fine with me. I just wanted you to know that there are other options besides just giving up ; that’s all. This world is built on the shoulders of the brave ones.
Take care , and my best wishes and prayers to you both.
The same goes for you , dear Cindy. If you want me to help you get your family back , I am here for you. I make no promises , but I never give up if you don’t neither.
Best regards ,
Peter
Thanks Peter. Maybe I should have talked to you when it was going down. It all happened so fast there was no time to strategize. The church had been working on them for months unbeknownst to me. They were turned before I could even try to give them “my side of the story.” I was just trying to tell Thisisme that by marrying this churchie, their joint family money will all go to Bridge and IAS. They’ll be drained dry eventually. And their kids will be taken by the church. Scientologists who thought they were doing a good deed for their kids by sending them to Scn schools, were just sending them to recruit campuses to be recruited into the SO, which then meant disconnection from their parents. Sorry if I sound jaded or bitter. But disconnection is a bitter pill to swallow.
Cindy : “Thanks Peter. Maybe I should have talked to you when it was going down. It all happened so fast there was no time to strategize. The church had been working on them for months unbeknownst to me. They were turned before I could even try to give them “my side of the story.” ”
TC : You are most welcome , and I totally understand you , dear Cindy
Cindy : “I was just trying to tell Thisisme that by marrying this churchie, their joint family money will all go to Bridge and IAS. They’ll be drained dry eventually. And their kids will be taken by the church. Scientologists who thought they were doing a good deed for their kids by sending them to Scn schools, were just sending them to recruit campuses to be recruited into the SO, which then meant disconnection from their parents. Sorry if I sound jaded or bitter. But disconnection is a bitter pill to swallow.”
TC : A very bitter pill to swallow , indeed it is. I agree with you ; marrying and having kids with this man w/out having solved first his connection to the Cofs is not pro-survival neither. Thisisme would have to work on the deprogramming strategy first before taking the relationship to a higher level.
My advice to all UTRs here (Under the radars) who still have family in the Church is to prepare a well thought strategy first to help your love ones before going public with your criticism towards the CofS. It is ok to talk about our “honor” , “personal integrity” , “courage” , and noble things like that. But none of it is a guarantee that you will bring them out of the CofS. Intelligence actions (as in strategies) are an covert operation not an overt one. You can’t just go to your family member and say to him/her ,
“listen , COB is a criminal who imprison and beat others ; he is an SP alter-ising LRH’s works. Yo need to get out of there with me now , today”.
I assure you , that ISN’T going to work at all. You’ll only “succeed” in driving him further away from you. You need to think with the concept of strategies , and get help from a terminal trained at cultic phenomena , handling Black PR , and general Intelligence strategies. This is a group effort. Here is what have been successful for me in helping others :
1. Do not voice your disagreements with “Command Intention” in such a way as portraying yourself as an anti-CofS individual. State your disagreements in a mild way , sounding sort of worry , concerned , but don’t overdo it. Try sounding in “boredom” about it not at cover hostility or anger. Sounding a bit “disaffected” is okay ; sounding AGAINST “Command Intention” , is not wise at that stage.
2. The idea here is not to make your family understand that LRH was full of shit , and that Scn is a destructive cult. That would be a VERY flawed “strategy’. The idea is to create the DOUBT in your family member as to whether or not LRH’s works are being altered in any way by the Church. That’s your point of entrance. You voice your concerns that you think that LRH is being altered. You provide them with specific LRH refs that counteract what the current administration is doing. You make them observe by pointing out in the correct direction.
3. An excellent site for that is Friends of LRH. In it you’ll find a “COB v/s LRH” comparison. Data is understood as compared and evaluated against other data on the same subject. Get them to take a look at that website if they are already reaching for more information. If not , just discuss one point at a time , like having to re-do Bridge steps , courses , etc. Ask them what LRH ref support that. Ask them what LRH ref support having to redo Objectives to include “Undercut processes” as a “Blanket C/S” action. Ask Qs like that with the sole idea to create DOUBT. That’s the product you are after , doubt.
4. Any fear from your family member to discuss these things , handle it with LRH’s refs on “personal integrity” , “Code of Honor” , etc. Get the individual to read and understand the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights (UDHR) . You’ll be surprised how most individuals doesn’t even know that such a document exist. This step is vital. He/she must know his fundamental rights
5. Discuss with him/her your concern with being SP declared and having to disconnect from them. See what’s in their minds regarding that. Discuss the doctrine of disconnection as evaluated against the UDHR. Make them understand that it is a wrong practice.
6. If they are ready to look further as they are ALREADY at doubt , you can refer him/her to Debbie Cook’s e-mail , “A Letter from Garcia” ( http://www.scientology-cult.com/images/stories/files/a-letter-from-garcia.pdf ) , and other such documents where Scn and LRH are not being criticized. Remember , the first stage isn’t about LRH or about Scn as a philosophy ; it is only about the CofS as an institution and DM’s programs.
7. Do not go for a “total effect” compulsively attempting to get him/her to leave Scn. This IS , IS a strategy composed of gradients. Gradients , and knowing when to reach and withdraw is the key to success.
8. Only after he/she is already out , get him/her to go in the Net and find out by himself about what is what. Give him his space to arrive at his own conclusions. Freeing oneself from a cult is a long healing process. It is a road to discovery best traveled by oneself.
More tactics and methods can be found at Steven Hassan website and his videos and books. Get trained on cultic studies as much as you can , and read the stories of other ex-members of different cults.
Peter
Hi Cindy,I was very moved by your post.What you wrote even though I did not have anyone in SO but me,the disconnection policy has always been unfortunately,brought tears to my eyes.As when I post about the black side of the cult,I am sure there are those who roll their eyes and exclaim there she goes again! But what happened to me was true and what you went through is very true.Brave and strong you definitely are.Always,Ann.
Thank you Ann. And so are you!
Dear Cindy, I didn’t mean to sound rude, insensible, and invalidative; God knows that you must have gone through a lot here. I sometimes react to these things out of my own frustration of not doing anything effective about it. This saddens me just too much to see families separated. I go into failed help, and sometimes say stupid things.
Please, do not lose hope, and hang in there. I know quite a few tricks if you wish my help in being able to talk with your kids again, but I can’t discuss it publicly. It would take me some time and a few letters, and your willingness to try my strategy. I make no promises except never giving up. Let me know if you wish to talk about it.
Take care, and my best wishes to you. You’ll be in my prays regarding your family.
Best regards,
Peter
P.S
I’ll post a general strategy tomorrow that might end these abuses. But it will take a lot of commitment and courage from others. We can pull this off in a way never tried before regarding Scn.
Hi thetaclear,It is a rainy and windy Oct.31 here.I read your posts to Cindy.I felt frustrated also,that families are forced apart because of policy.I send you power and hope that whatever may come in the future months can change the playing field,as concerns Scientology.At least perhaps some will think differently than before about the abuses done by cos.I am always happy to help in whatever way I can.With Love ,Ann.
Thanks Peter. I look forward to reading your ideas on how to get back with family.
Tough situation. I recommend “Cults Inside Out: How People Get In and Can Get Out” by Rick Ross and “Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults” by Steven Hassan (in no particular order).
I purchased that book for my Kindle. Outstanding read! I’m going to get Steven Hassan book next.
I love this one, Regraded Being. Thanks! It makes things more understable for someone like me who was never in.
Wow. That’s so brutal. And totally believable.
I just hope it isn’t really true.
Regraded Being, you’ve really topped yourself this time.
Wayne,
The reality is that it is much worse that you think.
I speak from direct experience as my daughter is in CMO-IXU ( Commodores Messenger Org/ International Extension Unit) and held the post of Director of Inspections and Reports for many years. She joined the SO at her cousins urging at 16. She is 33 now. She would not be where she is today were it not for my support of the cult.
I think the comments on RBs cartoon today are likely very mild as compared to the reality.
Yo Dave,
Do not relax good buddy!
SHSOB – Smoking Hot Sea Org Beyatch….LOVE IT!
I knew we could count on Leah Remini to deliver that smoking Hot BLOWAGE to the cult of Scientology. Please continue Leah – you are driving Miss Cabbage bonkers….!! No handling will pull him out of PT where everyone in the world knows Scientology is an evil cult that hurts people…except him and Tom Cruise a few thousand members.
Awesome work RB – spit coffee again!
(Insert old Soviet curse referring the Oedipus Complex)
I’ve had a friendlier reception as an Objectivist at a Michigan Militia meeting.
This one is very good.
smoking Sea Org Bitch is my favorite RB cartoon
character because she is the perfect mock up
of my seniors at Saint Hill when I was staff.
Except the more evil ones that are now ex felons.
True story
Truth is stranger than fiction. Like hardcore born again Christians or other extreme sects everything is filtered through the dogma. Scientologists when they get together are the worst.
The craziest part is that she actually gave the money. I love how they’re talking him out of becoming a doctor.
I don’t know man. This just feels off to me. Like we are really trying to label Scientologists as evil, hateful people which in my experience they are not. It’s taking every bad example and saying that this is what “they” are like. This is not what they are like.
There are a lot of reforms that need to occur with the church starting from the top, but stereotyping scientologists the way this cartoon does is not going to help anything. I mean, what is the purpose? To degrade and create hatred towards Scientologists?
Is it funny and I’m just not getting it? Is it intended to be humorous?
When I take a step back and look at this I just see it as akin to propaganda.
prop·a·gan·da
noun
1. derogatory
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
I think you should try not to be so literal. Cartoons take things and exaggerate to make a point. I don’t think there is a cartoon in history that could not be interpreted as stereotyping and painting a certain group of people with a broad (or unfair if you feel defensive about it) brush.
That is why it is humor. Or satire.
And a CARTOON.
Do you think Archie represents all teenagers?
Come on, lighten up. You cannot expect anyone to believe you havent witnessed these sort of people yourself? OF COURSE they were not all in the same room at the same time.
You cannot have a 500 panel comic strip with 493 panels of nothing but nice people to poke fun at the others who are not so nice.
The pass the pen panel is sort of funny. But the other panels are an example of what I don’t find that funny about the cartoon. It is trying to forward and crate an image or stereotype of scientologists that is rarely true in my experience. I was on staff for five years and on lines for fifteen and the “Scientologists” in the cartoon don’t seem like Scientologists to me. They are a caricature perhaps from an outside viewpoint. Was Regraded Being in Scientology?
Like I said, the panel about the IAS reges passing the pens was funny. I guess I’m just not getting the humor in the rest.
Ah well. Humor is a strange thing. It all depends on your perspective.
You are really saying you have never heard a scientologist being critical of another scientologist for having a “wog” 2D?
Mike, They are the most ethical group on the planet. Ask em!!! They would not do THAT!
Normal org staff are generally much more pleasant, I always dreaded encounters with SO because this was exactly how they thought and acted. The ones on the ship and at flag being the worst examples of all – the closest to the source of evil with nothing to filter it.
Dear Chrisman9 ,I’ve known Scn for several decades many of those years as a Scn staff. I was in the SO as well for a while. And I have got to tell you that I experienced every single situation that RB portrayed in his cartoons ; every single one of them.
At my Org , creating a 2D with a “wog” , as they are so eloquently called , was looked upon as a crazy misguided act. Gee , I got to confess that I held myself that stupid viewpoint until just a few years ago. If a Scientologist did created a 2D with a non-Scientologists , the staff tended to pressure this Scientologist to “bring his 2D in” to TURN her/him into a Scientologists as the only solution for them to last as a couple. I mean , I even participated in these type of “handlings”.
Studying for a degree was considered a total waste of time , specially if it was a career about business administration , marketing , social work , psychology , teaching , and medicine related professions. Joining staff to “Clear the Planet” was considered as a much higher goal a lot more important than having an academic degree. I even let myself be convinced to drop my engineering career , and I , making the worse mistake of my life , let those idiots convince me to abandon it all to pursue the “lofty” game of a “Cleared Planet”.
I have no clue as to how is it possible that you have not experienced any of those events if you have been in Scn that long ; I have no clue at all how is that even possible. Tell you what , why don’t you pay us a visit at Puerto Rico’s Org and see it for yourself ? THEN , you can have an informed opinion about it at least. Besides , this blog is about exposing the abuses of a suppressive group and its strict enslaving dogmas that led it to become a destructive cult. One of the tools to so expose and evaluate those abuses is through the use of something called “Satire” :
“Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit to draw attention to both particular and wider issues in society.”
Obviously one isn’t going to satirize the good parts of anything ; it doesn’t make sense to do so. RB work is satire , and he is doing an splendid job at it.
Your desire to portray Scientologists in general in a different way needs its own platform whose responsibility to create it the Scientologists’ themselves , and not Rinder’s. I keep saying that to you guys , and have been doing so for several months.
Milestone two group is dying as a blog. Nobody participate there any longer , not even you , any more. DROR , Israel , just the same. The Courseroom at Georgia is almost dead as a group , with almost no public. The only active Scientologists are quite a few ,and have been active since some decades ago ,but do so mostly privately w/out too much promotion in the Net. No Scientologist terminal is doing a damn thing to change the public perspective about them , but they want Rinder to do it for you. How lazy of you guys.
Tell you what , do something about it , and I might support you guys. Otherwise , stop the whining.
Best regards ,
Peter
I concur Thetaclear, well said.
I have two OT8 card carrying members in the family and they are blind to state of the orgs. They even don’t see that the rest of family haven’t moved on the bridge in 2 decades, (I’m avoided like poison) yet they continue to rave about how good it all is. To add more insulted intelligence to it, they don’t answer the phones either and haven’t been on course for years. I do believe they view the CL5 Orgs as well and truly beneath them, yet they avoid Flag’s communication as well. Go figure hey? I know that the mere suggestion they have made an error of judgement in anything is a declaration of war.
All scientologists has a major problem with confront.
All scientologists have a major problem with confront (damn typos!).
Chris, I appreciate your kindness, innocence, and courage. Like many of us, you don’t want the baby thrown out with the bathwater. I can see why the cartoon feels off to you, though I agree with Mike’s explanation.
Most Scientologists, in my experience, are awesome people, and very caring. While I’m no longer sure that the awesomeness of most Scientologists is uniquely attributable to Scientology, I still think it is important to acknowledge greatness where and in whom one finds it.
Regarded Being is extremely well done and funny, but also depressing and sad. It’s one of the best things on Mike’s important blog, as are people like you who continue to acknowledge the GOOD things about Scientology and Scientologists.
Keep being who you are.
Chrisman9,
” This is not what they are like. ”
Perhaps not but that IS what many of them DO. When there is a discrepancy between what someone says and what they do, suspect that there is a belief system that underlies it. They will DO what they believe and not what they say.
I agree, Newcomer. There’s nice, and then there’s “nice.” In another context, if you’re a black person down south dealing with white people, it’s totally different than being a white person down south dealing with white people. Specifically back in the day, I remember how “nice” the white ushers were in the movie theater, as they directed me to the “colored section” of the place.
Gee, Chris, I found no problem with it. You know why? Because, to me, Scientologists are evil and hateful people. They believe in a doctrine that condemns me to hell on Earth by depriving me of the medication that has calmed my mind, and then denies me the “comfort” of their replacement for that medication because I’m “covertly hostile” according to that same doctrine and am not willing to conform to the expectations of a man raised by Victorian women. How much more hateful can you get?
Taking this too personally, I am? So are you. When you say “This is not what they are like”, you mean “This is not what I am like”. That’s why you don’t find it funny, even in a gallows humor sense. It hits too close to home. Now you know what it’s like for me to read DMSMH or Science of Survival and see those lines about homosexuals, and to see those lines still held up as the truth and nothing but by people like your buddies at Millstone Two.
Regraded Being, like all good satirists, is documenting the reflection of a slightly skewed mirror of reality. Just because it doesn’t match the image in your mirror isn’t a reason to call the reflection false.
Chris, I lived through it, many times. It is exactly what happens. It is not new or particular to Scientology. This has been going on for centuries. Catholics not wanting their children to marry protestants. Jewish people not wanting outsiders in the family. Class distinction. Not marrying below one’s “station” in life.This is an ancient thing, “exclusion”.
The reason it is an outpoint in the Scientology community is that you would think people who claim to know about “granting beingness” and “ser facs” would not dramatize such ancient backward social intercourse. But it is as thick there, as if you were standing in England in the 1400’s.
Time keeps moving, objects continually fly through space. But the same beings remain. And they keep running the same cycles of social abuse, injustice and discrimination.
Someone has to be the turkey on Thanksgiving. That is where these arrive, on the dining table being eaten by everyone else.
It’s pure satire. It’s exactly the right thing to use. Fascistic leaders and fascistic regimes and organizations hate it.
sat·ire (săt′īr′)
n.
1.
a. A literary work in which human foolishness or vice is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.
b. The branch of literature constituting such works.
2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose human foolishness or vice.
[Latin satira, probably alteration (influenced by Greek satur, satyr, and saturos, burlesque of a mythical episode) of (lanx) satura, fruit (plate) mixture, from feminine of satur, sated, well-fitted; see sā- in Indo-European roots.]
see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire
Hi chrisman9,
I have noticed that Scientologists like to include the copy/pasted dictionary definitions of common words in their communications in order to… well I’m not sure what purpose it’s supposed to serve. I can only say that I find it annoying when someone thinks to give me the definition, unsolicited, of a word that he should assume I know already if he doesn’t think I’m a dribbling idiot.
Just a thought. Thank you and be well.
It’s the word-clearing fetish that Scilons have, and it’s truly condescending. This is another reason why I wouldn’t ever become a clam. I haven’t needed to use a dictionary since I was 10, and I’ll be damned if someone tells me I have to do it. And I never have an M/U.
You haven’t needed a dictionary since you were ten? Did the ten year old Espiando know the meaning of the word, “insouciant”? I had to look up that word when I was forty when reading Bonfire of the Vanities. Tom Wolf wrote, “…her insouciant thighs…”
Hi Roger Hornaday,I love words,but I always have a big dictionary and thesaurus around.”Isouciant thighs”stumped me when reading ” Bonfire of the Vanities” too.Espiando probably has x-ray eyes and a photographic memory.Although Marc Headley has everyone beat by many galaxies with his! Loved his posts on water turning on in rest rooms and all his other amazing qualities.☕️??Ann.
By the time Bonfire of the Inanities came out, Little Espiando was a college graduate and knew the definition of “insouciant”. Little Espiando also remembers reading the excerpts in Rolling Stone and not giving a shit about the novel or Tom Wolfe.
Hi Espiando,Well I am very degreed in seeing things in a different way than most.(laughter)However if we had been in the same classes I would have been frightened of your brain power.Always,Ann.
Hi Ann, although Espiando’s tastes aren’t inclusive of at least one hilarious Tom Wolf novel, his inestimable brain power, should you have had the benediction of being his classmate, would have doubtlessly been applied to motives more akin to hospitality than intimidation. I would bet a thousand dollars on it. But, mind you, not of my own money. 🙂
Hi Roger Hornaday, Love this post and you and your Insight! XXOO,Ann.
Replying to ChrisMann9’s comment above: Now most on here know me as a true blue Scientologist but I think we have to differentiate what RB is doing here. He is simply pointing out the added and unnecessary insanity interjected into the group by certain management types, notably of course “COB”. As RB says the vast majority of Scientologists are well-intentioned and actually very nice people – his cartoons in this instance are simply pointing out these added-in insanities. These insanities are actually nothing to do with Scientology as such. The Donations Industry in the Church would be a perfect example – Hubbard actually rails against this idea but Miscavige has thrown it into the Scientology pot and is ripping off the parishioners with it. So RB is correctly targeting the insanities that have been introduced into the running of the Orgs and thus I find it to be cathartic – as well as funny. The cartoons do not damage Scientology as such – they point out the departures from Scientology.
Ouch!
Do they really go to court for a restraining order to enforce Disconnection? I’d think there would be hesitation to involve a “wog” court, plus having to step carefully when justifying it to the court. Ah well, no doubt they have some legal boilerplate documents for that — just fill in the blanks, and cross-off a family member.
So true, so sad, and netherless so funny (I should really be a bad person…).
I give free lessons ………………
And I can vouch for the lessons! They are fantastic! Once he gets done with you, trust me, you’ll be BAD TO THE BONE… You’ll be one bad motor scooter, like me.
A Vespa? What’s bad about a Vespa?
The person ridding it…….Hey, I can’t really afford a Harley right now. But, my little Vespa is bad ass!