So typical of the cult. Send WTH booklets. No matter the problem, the issue, the natural disaster, the catastrophe – no matter, send WTH.
Yo David Miscavige and all Scientologists –
Have you ever lived amongst hungry people, starving people?
Have you ever seen emaciated, exhausted, hollow-eyed adults?
Children with rickets, little kids with bone-thin arms and legs and distended stomachs?
Crying babies held by mothers who cannot nurse them because they have no milk?
Do you, David Miscavige and Scientologists, have ANY idea, ANY concept of what REAL hunger is?
I don’t think you do.
And yet you say you want to help the starving people of Venezuela.
Well, then, here’s a tip:
THEY’RE NOT IN THE MOOD TO READ.
Much love,
Aqua.
To : Aquamarine
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: questioning my methods.
Apparently, Aqua, you need a refresher on the tech. Reading TWTH provides nourishment that ordinary food can’t provide. The most effective way of alleviating starvation is to have the famished read TWTH. That solves everything. Why? Because I say so!
ML
Dave.
To: David Miscavige COB RTC
From: Alcoboy
Re: you and your stupid ideas.
Alright, shorty(yes, I called you shorty!), I know you don’t believe in Jesus or the Bible but don’t make me quote the epistle of James where he criticizes people who wish for the poor to be fed and clothed yet don’t provide them with food and clothing. People like you, for instance!
Sawed off little runt!
Thank you for making me chuckle, Alcoboy. Its all so tragic, there’s just so much wasted money that could be put to the right use…it freaks me out sometimes. the wasted resources, the lying, the uselessness of it all. But you made me laugh anyway so thanks 🙂
Aqua. He runs away from these things.
DM believes (or makes other to believe it), but it is said among the members, that he is the MOST important person in the world. No joke.
With a such huge ego how can he really see others as real persons? Can he meet a person and feel the unicity of that person even if he is fragile. Can he really feel that life in him being the same in everybody else (life is just one) ?
No he sees just himself. The others just as a mean to his goals.
In addition he gets special food from all over the world and it isn’t cheap.
Summary: he doesn’t give a damn heck about others. Zero.
Yes, of course, its all part of his narcissism, Loosing. Everything is, has been and always will be all about him. He doesn’t – can’t, possibly, see anyone else except himself. No one is really real for him. There are people like this and it is both frightening and sad when those with such diseased minds have power over others’ lives.
Aqua. Thanks. He is just a sociopathic that has power on his cult members.
The good thing is that the members are going down since decades and also that WE are here to alert people to stay away from this sect.
Yeah pretty safe to say they’ve never seen nor been around anyone in those conditions. Unlike real churches and NGO’s, they look at people like that as “out exchange” and therefore have NO idea what they want/need.
I remember the first “mission” opportunity when I started back at church was going to help victims of hurricane Katrina. I just found the flier for what to expect, bring and not bring:
~~~~
Go Serve: New Orleans
1) You will need to bring sleeping bag (sleeping mats onsite) and 3-4 days of work clothing. Laundry facilities available onsite. Make sure clothes/shoes are durable, comfortable and prepare to get dirty and work hard!
2) Bring your heart, smile, and offer a prayer, not advice. The people within the two parishes we will be working don’t need advice, preaching or anything beyond an open heart, helping hand and understanding that this is likely one of the most difficult times of their lives.
3) Do NOT bring: cameras, recording devices, etc. as we are not there to put others’ suffering on display. We will provide you with pictures at the end, if you’d like to send to family, friends and others who might consider supporting or volunteering in the future. All pictures will be approved by local contacts to ensure they feel respected and honored.
4) Do not bring: Clothing, candy, books, etc. to give away. We will provide you with all tools, safety equipment as well as new toiletry packs, bedding and other supplies the families may request. Please keep in mind it is better to support the local economy in the area by purchasing any items for which we’ve not secured donations as a means to further support the community.
~~~
We partnered w/other churches and local charities to be effective AND made a 5 YEAR commitment. First year saw teams there near constantly, then every summer thereafter (add’l as needed/requested) with continuous financial support for supplies and to get/keep the schools and before/after school care running at no cost to local families.
THAT is what GENUINE support looks like. It’s hard work, longterm commitment and most definitely not glamorous or for PR, but focused primarily on the needs of the people we serve. And it changes ones’ heart and perspective forever!
THIS is why the co$ approach to “help others” infuriates. It’s so “I know what you need better than you” and disrespectful to the dignity of those being “served.” The people who’s hearts want to help could be incredibly impactful – even small teams – IF co$ objective was genuine and intentional!
Jenyfurr, thank you and your organization. Understood on all you’ve said. 100×100 percent agreed on all you’ve said. What you just detailed is what REAL help looks like. Wow.
RB great humor. I mean it.
I really wonder how many of them are starting to have a “light” ArcX towards the situation but unconsciously towards leadership. Regardless of how one looks at it one gets the impression that they have betrayed.
ArcX does not mean having overts.
In this case it surely indicates that others have done bad things towards them.
But seriously, it’s too bad for the staff, who typically live in poverty during the best of times.
That the org in Venezuela put out the plea shows the level of desperation they must be experiencing. It is an acknowledgment that the staff don’t expect much from the IAS, and the response from Miscavige will likely be fury at the “unauthorized out-PR communication” and severe punishment of the offending email sender rather than actual help with food assistance and other necessities.
That is so true! It’s scino version of let them eat cake! Probably put them in lower conditions too for being hungry and running out of food. I mean they make the able more able right??? Riiiight!
O/T. Church of Scientology National Affairs Office joins letter protesting the Designation of The People’s Republic of China to the United Nations Human Rights Council Consultative Group:
“unacceptable” and “reprehensible.”
NOTE: This item concerns a different action by the Church of Scientology National Affairs Office against the PRC than the one I reported on two days ago.
I agree. It was typical of the scam to send them something that was of no value to them or anyone else while they knew they are starving and that many may well die.
But I also looked up the Spanish and I must admit that I didn’t understand the translation, “There’s more tomorrow?” Why would one of those people ask the other, “There’s more tomorrow?” Can anyone explain? It doesn’t make any sense to me. But I would like to understand because I think this is an excellent offering from RB.
It makes it very clear just how pointless this scam really is and how cruel they can be sending worthless booklets to people who are starving and really need a tiny bit of rice – not some stupid booklets written in a language they cannot read.
LMAO john, The Embargo is INTERNATIONAL against the criminal gov’t of Venezuela. People have been starving there YEARS before the embargo you brainless twit
I said it is an INTERNATIONAL policy. AND IT IS! AND, the people WERE starving BEFORE that. So, see a mental health professional about being a pathological liar
Has $ci ever done anything of significance to help their fellow man? Sure, they will bribe the local PD with a $20,000 donation or the VMs may hand out some water as long as there is a photo op. They will hand out useless “Way to Happiness” pamphlets or give just as useless “touch assists”. Seriously what have they done to help their fellow man?
Gordon: what did they do to help out their fellow man?
I’ll tell you what they did. They took photos of them so that they will be remembered after they starve to death.
The booklets can always be burned to provide some heat.
Venezuela is extremely close to the equator. But according to Wikipedia, their average temperatures are not nearly as hot as one would expect. I recall one news item that said one of the Venezuelan peoples’ many complaints was they had nothing they could use to heat their homes.
In the midwest they used to burn “cattle chips” to make heat. I am sure that the Church will supply them will enough Bullshit to last them a thousand years. What’s the difference?
Our President wants churches considered equal to essential businesses and and as such included in the Stage One reopenings of all states; says that he will “override” the orders of any governors who refuse to comply. Not sure if he can do that but whatever.
Interesting, no?
I’m sure Our Favorite Cult will be thrilled! Flog especially, I would think.
Now, if Trump prevails, Flog of course will reopen for auditing and the mandated 14 day quarantine currently in place will be lifted. That last is a given because having to quarantine in CW for 14 days before getting audited has been a huge impediment to getting PCs to Flog. This I know for a fact. But then, with Flog reopened, the OT7s will be regged like hell to get back on the cans for their mandatory 6 month sec checs. Forget just the OT7s, Flolg will be out of control reg’ging Still In with a pulse to get down there. The faithful will come. Not from outside the US at first but most likely from Covid Hotspots like New York and New Jersey, and with them they might very well bring the virus and spreading it around the FH and the Oak Cove, etc.
It has been conclusively determined that one can have no symptoms of Covid at all and yet spread it to others.
Will Flog’s greed and craving to recoup their crashed stats be stronger than their desire to stay healthy?
Actually, under TWO sections of the 1st Amendment (Freedom to assemble and freedom of religion) he can override any Governor who closes churches in defiance of the Constitution. He can use the Army if needed to take out the State government officials who refuse to follow the constitution. NO law, Federal or State is superior to the Constitution.
See: June 10, 1963, when President Kennedy used Army troops and deployed them to the University of Alabama to force its desegregation under the 14th Amendment.
I think you need a REAL course on the US Constitution Aqua. The schools you attended didn’t teach it unfortunately. Attacking a PotUS for OBEYING the Constitution is not really a good position to take.
But it wasn’t my position, Wynski. Where did you get that I’m attacking him. You’ve misinterpreted the point of my comment. I wasn’t attacking Trump in this comment. If I gave that impression it wasn’t intentional. My focus was on what Flag and other Scn orgs would do IF he followed thru with what he said he was going to do; IF he overrode various governors’ determinations with regard to churches not being essential businesses – the ramifications of this possibility with regard to Scientology orgs and in particular, Flag. You’ll also note I admitted not knowing whether or not presidential power allowed him to do this (see paragraph one, last sentence: “Not sure if he can do that, but whatever.”) I’m no constitutional scholar; never said I was 🙂 Obviously, you are, and a president can as you say override any governor who closes churches in defiance of the Constitution. Got it! So I learned something. But I wasn’t focused on that aspect of it. I was focused on how Flag will be thrilled to be able to audit PCs again, mostly. And how that’s going to spread covid there, because the sheeple will be coming down from covid hot spots like New York City, and infecting the Sea Org people. There’s no way that auditing can be done with social distancing and masks. That was my point. So thanks for the free tutorial on the Constitution wherein you furnished an interesting example of a president wielding constitutional power with regard to JFK ‘s desegrating the schools back in the day (seriously,I’m not being sarcastic, that was interesting) and if Trump says all the churches have the right to be open if they want to be, well, I personally think they’d be foolish and irresponsible to open and mass together without masks and so forth if they’re in high risk areas but never mind, so be it and my ONLY point was and is that our favorite cult will be thrilled, ok? Now let’s kiss and make up 🙂
You don’t have to be so confrontational to someone you know is a good hearted person.
There is considerable debate about this issue and the 1st Amendment vs the 10th and what powers are conferred by those Amendments. It’s not as black and white as you seem to be asserting.
Wynskisays
There is ALWAYS debate. However it says what it says. There is no debate points saying it doesn’t mean what is written that is backed by ANYTHING in the constitution. To say the 1st doesn’t apply to the STATES means that STATES can demand official religions.
THAT is a weird position that is also not found in the constitution.
Mike Rindersays
The issue isn’t so much religious belief, as it is right to assembly. You can still pray to God or whatever you do without being inside a building, though of course some sacraments like eating the wafers cannot be done without a priest, but nothing prevents them from standing outside and having a line of people pass by to get their blessing.
To turn State’s rights into them demanding official religions is a straw man argument. I never said the 1st Amendment doesn’t apply to States.
You assert you are right. This is not such a clear-cut matter. There are a lot more legal questions here than a simply declaration “we are guaranteed the right to practice our religion any way we see fit, and nobody can tell us otherwise” — if that was true then religions could use illegal drugs in their “sacrament” or participate in animal or even human sacrifice and be protected from State laws prohibiting such. As you know, this is not the case.
I enjoy a robust discussion of these sort of things. I think it is helpful to gain perspective and perhaps new views and ideas that were not previously apparent.
You always have valuable insight. I thank you for taking the time.
Wynskisays
The right to assemble was LONG ago decided by the SCotUS as applying to the states.. The ENTIRE 1st amendment was decided as incorporated into the states and right to assemble is SETTLE LAW. THERE IS NO LEGAL DEBATE pending in the courts about that. It was decided long ago.
Whom ever told you that there is still debate about THIS point of law is completely uneducated in the area.
Mike Rindersays
Long settled law is only settled until there is another case.
Dred Scott v. Sanford was settled law too. Until it wasn’t.
There may be no debate pending currently, but that could easily change.
Mike Rindersays
While we were debating this the USSC published a decision yesterday on this very issue. Chief Justice Roberts sided with the liberals in a 5-4 decision denying a challenge from a Pentecostal church in San Diego who sued California Governor Newsom for restricting their church services. You should read it. States do have the right to restrict religious assembly.
In this pandemic, Venezuela must have a high demand for toilet paper too.
Way to come through for them, scientology!
Those trees weren’t wasted on bajillions of copies of unread “Way to Happiness” brochures after all.
😂🤣😂
A bad gift is worse than no gift.
I like how a lot of the men in these comics parrot, word for word, some of the tired old phrasings.
” No hay comida?” Meaning no food in English. But 99 percent of you probably knew that. My Spanish is not very good.
So typical of the cult. Send WTH booklets. No matter the problem, the issue, the natural disaster, the catastrophe – no matter, send WTH.
Yo David Miscavige and all Scientologists –
Have you ever lived amongst hungry people, starving people?
Have you ever seen emaciated, exhausted, hollow-eyed adults?
Children with rickets, little kids with bone-thin arms and legs and distended stomachs?
Crying babies held by mothers who cannot nurse them because they have no milk?
Do you, David Miscavige and Scientologists, have ANY idea, ANY concept of what REAL hunger is?
I don’t think you do.
And yet you say you want to help the starving people of Venezuela.
Well, then, here’s a tip:
THEY’RE NOT IN THE MOOD TO READ.
Much love,
Aqua.
To : Aquamarine
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: questioning my methods.
Apparently, Aqua, you need a refresher on the tech. Reading TWTH provides nourishment that ordinary food can’t provide. The most effective way of alleviating starvation is to have the famished read TWTH. That solves everything. Why? Because I say so!
ML
Dave.
To: David Miscavige COB RTC
From: Alcoboy
Re: you and your stupid ideas.
Alright, shorty(yes, I called you shorty!), I know you don’t believe in Jesus or the Bible but don’t make me quote the epistle of James where he criticizes people who wish for the poor to be fed and clothed yet don’t provide them with food and clothing. People like you, for instance!
Sawed off little runt!
No love at all,
Alcoboy.
Thank you for making me chuckle, Alcoboy. Its all so tragic, there’s just so much wasted money that could be put to the right use…it freaks me out sometimes. the wasted resources, the lying, the uselessness of it all. But you made me laugh anyway so thanks 🙂
My pleasure, Aqua. It gives me joy to defend you against the mighty midget. Not that you need it but I still like to help.
Again you got it dead on the money Aqua.
There is nothing more for me to say.
Thanks.
You’re welcome, Bill.
Aqua. He runs away from these things.
DM believes (or makes other to believe it), but it is said among the members, that he is the MOST important person in the world. No joke.
With a such huge ego how can he really see others as real persons? Can he meet a person and feel the unicity of that person even if he is fragile. Can he really feel that life in him being the same in everybody else (life is just one) ?
No he sees just himself. The others just as a mean to his goals.
In addition he gets special food from all over the world and it isn’t cheap.
Summary: he doesn’t give a damn heck about others. Zero.
Yes, of course, its all part of his narcissism, Loosing. Everything is, has been and always will be all about him. He doesn’t – can’t, possibly, see anyone else except himself. No one is really real for him. There are people like this and it is both frightening and sad when those with such diseased minds have power over others’ lives.
Aqua. Thanks. He is just a sociopathic that has power on his cult members.
The good thing is that the members are going down since decades and also that WE are here to alert people to stay away from this sect.
Yes, indeed.
“Have you ever seen emaciated, exhausted, hollow-eyed adults?”
Now you’re making Defendant David Miscavige nostalgic for the good old days of The Hole
🙂 Jens.
Yeah pretty safe to say they’ve never seen nor been around anyone in those conditions. Unlike real churches and NGO’s, they look at people like that as “out exchange” and therefore have NO idea what they want/need.
I remember the first “mission” opportunity when I started back at church was going to help victims of hurricane Katrina. I just found the flier for what to expect, bring and not bring:
~~~~
Go Serve: New Orleans
1) You will need to bring sleeping bag (sleeping mats onsite) and 3-4 days of work clothing. Laundry facilities available onsite. Make sure clothes/shoes are durable, comfortable and prepare to get dirty and work hard!
2) Bring your heart, smile, and offer a prayer, not advice. The people within the two parishes we will be working don’t need advice, preaching or anything beyond an open heart, helping hand and understanding that this is likely one of the most difficult times of their lives.
3) Do NOT bring: cameras, recording devices, etc. as we are not there to put others’ suffering on display. We will provide you with pictures at the end, if you’d like to send to family, friends and others who might consider supporting or volunteering in the future. All pictures will be approved by local contacts to ensure they feel respected and honored.
4) Do not bring: Clothing, candy, books, etc. to give away. We will provide you with all tools, safety equipment as well as new toiletry packs, bedding and other supplies the families may request. Please keep in mind it is better to support the local economy in the area by purchasing any items for which we’ve not secured donations as a means to further support the community.
~~~
We partnered w/other churches and local charities to be effective AND made a 5 YEAR commitment. First year saw teams there near constantly, then every summer thereafter (add’l as needed/requested) with continuous financial support for supplies and to get/keep the schools and before/after school care running at no cost to local families.
THAT is what GENUINE support looks like. It’s hard work, longterm commitment and most definitely not glamorous or for PR, but focused primarily on the needs of the people we serve. And it changes ones’ heart and perspective forever!
THIS is why the co$ approach to “help others” infuriates. It’s so “I know what you need better than you” and disrespectful to the dignity of those being “served.” The people who’s hearts want to help could be incredibly impactful – even small teams – IF co$ objective was genuine and intentional!
Jenyfurr, thank you and your organization. Understood on all you’ve said. 100×100 percent agreed on all you’ve said. What you just detailed is what REAL help looks like. Wow.
Poor people, betrayed by what they wanted to believe.
I hope at least the paper is of good quality. At least it can be of some use.
As much use as a Sears catalog in an ouhouse circa 1910.
🙂
RB great humor. I mean it.
I really wonder how many of them are starting to have a “light” ArcX towards the situation but unconsciously towards leadership. Regardless of how one looks at it one gets the impression that they have betrayed.
ArcX does not mean having overts.
In this case it surely indicates that others have done bad things towards them.
L Ron Wilson? You can’t believe anything that comes out of the “Hubbard” camp.
Eat your words, scientology. Literally.
But seriously, it’s too bad for the staff, who typically live in poverty during the best of times.
That the org in Venezuela put out the plea shows the level of desperation they must be experiencing. It is an acknowledgment that the staff don’t expect much from the IAS, and the response from Miscavige will likely be fury at the “unauthorized out-PR communication” and severe punishment of the offending email sender rather than actual help with food assistance and other necessities.
Well, at least they will be happy as they starve!
I can hear them singing now:
“We stand tall! No turning back, we’ve found the way…………”
Great one RB. And so true.
That is so true! It’s scino version of let them eat cake! Probably put them in lower conditions too for being hungry and running out of food. I mean they make the able more able right??? Riiiight!
O/T. Church of Scientology National Affairs Office joins letter protesting the Designation of The People’s Republic of China to the United Nations Human Rights Council Consultative Group:
“unacceptable” and “reprehensible.”
NOTE: This item concerns a different action by the Church of Scientology National Affairs Office against the PRC than the one I reported on two days ago.
Tweet:
https://twitter.com/ISNOINews/status/1263817442138128384
ESMB Redux post:
https://exscn2.net/threads/church-of-scientology-joins-attack-on-the-peoples-republic-of-china-dont-fund-our-enemy.1312/post-37141
/
Ouch! Says it all in two frames!
Ouch, indeed. You took the words right out of my mouth.
I looked up a Spanish to English translation for those of us who didn’t take it in school:
“There’s more tomorrow”
“Only books in English? No food?”
Good one, RB. Unfortunately, also highly likely to be true.
I agree. It was typical of the scam to send them something that was of no value to them or anyone else while they knew they are starving and that many may well die.
But I also looked up the Spanish and I must admit that I didn’t understand the translation, “There’s more tomorrow?” Why would one of those people ask the other, “There’s more tomorrow?” Can anyone explain? It doesn’t make any sense to me. But I would like to understand because I think this is an excellent offering from RB.
It makes it very clear just how pointless this scam really is and how cruel they can be sending worthless booklets to people who are starving and really need a tiny bit of rice – not some stupid booklets written in a language they cannot read.
There’s more tomorrow means this is just the first shipment to arrive. More garbage is on the way.
Spot on, Mike! Garbage is the exact term!
If Venezuelan $cientologists are hungry it’s because of the US embargo. It doesn’t hurt Maduro, only the poor people.
Sorry John, there is no US embargo of Venezuela.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-expands-sanctions-against-venezuela-into-an-embargo-11565053782 The Venezuela is bartering gold with Iran (another country on the US enemies list) because it’s not permitted to use the US dollar.
Yes, READ THE F’ING TEXT John. It is ONLY against the gov’t. Any PERSON or BUSINESS in Venezuela is NOT under the embargo!!!!!
LMAO john, The Embargo is INTERNATIONAL against the criminal gov’t of Venezuela. People have been starving there YEARS before the embargo you brainless twit
it’s the English speaking countries and the EU. Not the entire world. People have been starving the world over, even in the US for, hundreds of years. Food insecurity) https://hungerandhealth.feedingamerica.org/understand-food-insecurity/
I said it is an INTERNATIONAL policy. AND IT IS! AND, the people WERE starving BEFORE that. So, see a mental health professional about being a pathological liar
LOL
Has $ci ever done anything of significance to help their fellow man? Sure, they will bribe the local PD with a $20,000 donation or the VMs may hand out some water as long as there is a photo op. They will hand out useless “Way to Happiness” pamphlets or give just as useless “touch assists”. Seriously what have they done to help their fellow man?
Nothing!
The acquaduct.
Gordon: what did they do to help out their fellow man?
I’ll tell you what they did. They took photos of them so that they will be remembered after they starve to death.
Well, at least the shipping companies are making a few bucks off scientology!
The last panel is probably true! LOL
Wynski, there is no ‘probably’ about it. This is exactly how the little piece of shit in charge plans to handle this situation!
They going to need a bigger armario, and I bet the paper is super glossy so can’t easily be used for other purposes.
The booklets can always be burned to provide some heat.
Venezuela is extremely close to the equator. But according to Wikipedia, their average temperatures are not nearly as hot as one would expect. I recall one news item that said one of the Venezuelan peoples’ many complaints was they had nothing they could use to heat their homes.
In the midwest they used to burn “cattle chips” to make heat. I am sure that the Church will supply them will enough Bullshit to last them a thousand years. What’s the difference?
Off Topic:
Our President wants churches considered equal to essential businesses and and as such included in the Stage One reopenings of all states; says that he will “override” the orders of any governors who refuse to comply. Not sure if he can do that but whatever.
Interesting, no?
I’m sure Our Favorite Cult will be thrilled! Flog especially, I would think.
Now, if Trump prevails, Flog of course will reopen for auditing and the mandated 14 day quarantine currently in place will be lifted. That last is a given because having to quarantine in CW for 14 days before getting audited has been a huge impediment to getting PCs to Flog. This I know for a fact. But then, with Flog reopened, the OT7s will be regged like hell to get back on the cans for their mandatory 6 month sec checs. Forget just the OT7s, Flolg will be out of control reg’ging Still In with a pulse to get down there. The faithful will come. Not from outside the US at first but most likely from Covid Hotspots like New York and New Jersey, and with them they might very well bring the virus and spreading it around the FH and the Oak Cove, etc.
It has been conclusively determined that one can have no symptoms of Covid at all and yet spread it to others.
Will Flog’s greed and craving to recoup their crashed stats be stronger than their desire to stay healthy?
Interesting times.
Sorry for grammar; got distracted.
Actually, under TWO sections of the 1st Amendment (Freedom to assemble and freedom of religion) he can override any Governor who closes churches in defiance of the Constitution. He can use the Army if needed to take out the State government officials who refuse to follow the constitution. NO law, Federal or State is superior to the Constitution.
See: June 10, 1963, when President Kennedy used Army troops and deployed them to the University of Alabama to force its desegregation under the 14th Amendment.
I think you need a REAL course on the US Constitution Aqua. The schools you attended didn’t teach it unfortunately. Attacking a PotUS for OBEYING the Constitution is not really a good position to take.
But it wasn’t my position, Wynski. Where did you get that I’m attacking him. You’ve misinterpreted the point of my comment. I wasn’t attacking Trump in this comment. If I gave that impression it wasn’t intentional. My focus was on what Flag and other Scn orgs would do IF he followed thru with what he said he was going to do; IF he overrode various governors’ determinations with regard to churches not being essential businesses – the ramifications of this possibility with regard to Scientology orgs and in particular, Flag. You’ll also note I admitted not knowing whether or not presidential power allowed him to do this (see paragraph one, last sentence: “Not sure if he can do that, but whatever.”) I’m no constitutional scholar; never said I was 🙂 Obviously, you are, and a president can as you say override any governor who closes churches in defiance of the Constitution. Got it! So I learned something. But I wasn’t focused on that aspect of it. I was focused on how Flag will be thrilled to be able to audit PCs again, mostly. And how that’s going to spread covid there, because the sheeple will be coming down from covid hot spots like New York City, and infecting the Sea Org people. There’s no way that auditing can be done with social distancing and masks. That was my point. So thanks for the free tutorial on the Constitution wherein you furnished an interesting example of a president wielding constitutional power with regard to JFK ‘s desegrating the schools back in the day (seriously,I’m not being sarcastic, that was interesting) and if Trump says all the churches have the right to be open if they want to be, well, I personally think they’d be foolish and irresponsible to open and mass together without masks and so forth if they’re in high risk areas but never mind, so be it and my ONLY point was and is that our favorite cult will be thrilled, ok? Now let’s kiss and make up 🙂
So are you FOR the PotUS overriding those unconstitutional orders from the State governors? Or are you against the constitution?
You don’t have to be so confrontational to someone you know is a good hearted person.
There is considerable debate about this issue and the 1st Amendment vs the 10th and what powers are conferred by those Amendments. It’s not as black and white as you seem to be asserting.
There is ALWAYS debate. However it says what it says. There is no debate points saying it doesn’t mean what is written that is backed by ANYTHING in the constitution. To say the 1st doesn’t apply to the STATES means that STATES can demand official religions.
THAT is a weird position that is also not found in the constitution.
The issue isn’t so much religious belief, as it is right to assembly. You can still pray to God or whatever you do without being inside a building, though of course some sacraments like eating the wafers cannot be done without a priest, but nothing prevents them from standing outside and having a line of people pass by to get their blessing.
To turn State’s rights into them demanding official religions is a straw man argument. I never said the 1st Amendment doesn’t apply to States.
You assert you are right. This is not such a clear-cut matter. There are a lot more legal questions here than a simply declaration “we are guaranteed the right to practice our religion any way we see fit, and nobody can tell us otherwise” — if that was true then religions could use illegal drugs in their “sacrament” or participate in animal or even human sacrifice and be protected from State laws prohibiting such. As you know, this is not the case.
I enjoy a robust discussion of these sort of things. I think it is helpful to gain perspective and perhaps new views and ideas that were not previously apparent.
You always have valuable insight. I thank you for taking the time.
The right to assemble was LONG ago decided by the SCotUS as applying to the states.. The ENTIRE 1st amendment was decided as incorporated into the states and right to assemble is SETTLE LAW. THERE IS NO LEGAL DEBATE pending in the courts about that. It was decided long ago.
Here are the major cases: https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/encyclopedia/case/11/freedom-of-assembly
Whom ever told you that there is still debate about THIS point of law is completely uneducated in the area.
Long settled law is only settled until there is another case.
Dred Scott v. Sanford was settled law too. Until it wasn’t.
There may be no debate pending currently, but that could easily change.
While we were debating this the USSC published a decision yesterday on this very issue. Chief Justice Roberts sided with the liberals in a 5-4 decision denying a challenge from a Pentecostal church in San Diego who sued California Governor Newsom for restricting their church services. You should read it. States do have the right to restrict religious assembly.