Re: I want every one of our stupid WOG lawyers to get Star-Rated Checkouts with Clay Demos… on HCOPL 12 February 1967, “The Responsibilities of Leaders,” and I want it done by tomorrow or they don’t get paid!
This is a joke, right? David Miscavige wouldn’t force such an absurdity on his non-Scientology lawyers, would he? And if he did, he wouldn’t demand both a Star-Rated Checkout and Clay Demos of this 13-page policy letter? And if so, would he really withhold pay under such circumstances?
When I joined the Sea Org in 1977, the fence around the Complex in Los Angeles had not yet been removed. With 200 people on the Estates Project Force, we transformed an old hospital into LA Org, ASHO, and AOLA.
Training on the EPF included the Student Hat (with reel-to-reel tapes and no transcripts) as well as Volume Zero of the OEC Vols. I never finished the latter (or the EPF) because I got bogged down on the PL, “The Responsibilities of Leaders.” My training also included the PTS/SP Routing and Detection Course. And I had been in Scientology for only a matter of months.
I hope that Miscavige’s lawyers are never mistreated with checkouts, demos and the like. In fact, nobody should be subjected to such abuse.
To Otherles – Perhaps “COB” is most responsible, but for those of us out, we can much better see how LRH personally put the seeds in place to foster a group, inevitably, of cultish doom.
External — How “enemies” are handled? My god, how dark and paranoid.
Internal — The Rehabilitation Project Force — a Sea Org member is punished for whatever his or her seniors deem is punishment-worthy, adorn you in dirty, sweaty coveralls where you run everywhere and call everyone ‘Sir’ while working hard labor for many hours per day seven days a week.
I was only ever public, and I am auditor trained, which is all about improving Affinity, Reality, Communication, plus contact with and restoration of Own Truth.
I learn about all this other crud, per Policy, that is in place and practiced. I shudder because it is THE OPPOSITE of what I learned and studied.
Yet, those dark facets of Scientology are from LRH, not necessarily something I can exclusively put at the feet of David Miscavige. COB seems to be The Great Exacerbator, but he had just about all the raw materials he would ever need from Hubbard himself.
Breaks my heart. Such a waste, as there is so much good stuff there which I observe and I do believe can be genuinely helpful to people. I sometimes wonder if, like how George Lucas reports he channeled the stories that would become “Star Wars” or Gene Rodenberry touching upon a rich vein that became “Star Trek,” if Hubbard did hit upon some useful and very old workable, functioning truths. But then he claimed it was “all him” and became the sham artist, personally layering in all kinds of other ego-driven dribble, which I am sad to say, fast appears to be consuming anything that is useful and good about the technology.
Peridot sez: “Maybe down the road, the good stuff will survive.”
Not going to happen because there is no “good stuff” in scientology. The entirety of the subject is a fraud and a scam. Hubbard claimed that he was crippled and blinded in WW II and his early research into the mind was what cured his ailments. Hubbard was never crippled and blinded in the war and pretty much his entire service record is contrived. Afterwards he published dmsmh after claims of extensive research and he was able to produce ‘clears’ with a few hundred hours of auditing. There was no extensive research or even ANY research. There are no ‘clears’, engrams, ‘OTs’, Xenu, BTs, etc. It is all a fraud and a scam. This is well documented. No research = no results, no results = no “good stuff”. It’s that simple. Any benefit or perceived benefit from any of Hubbard’s ‘tech’ is pure coincidence and can’t be replicated. scientology is a scam, always has been always will be.
Exactly. Anecdotes are the start of investigating whether there’s any truth to a claim, not proof that it’s true. The easiest person to fool is yourself. Science is built around eliminating bias and deception; and that’s why it has so much credibility in our culture.
LRH knew that Scientology was built around self-deception, which is why he made damn sure to keep scientific testing the hell away from it.
Take the ‘success story’ every Scientologist is required to write after finishing a course: this is to try to lock in the self-deception, now that you’re done whatever you were being indoctrinated about. But real, useful, beneficial training doesn’t require reinforcement to make you believe it’s true. That’s why you’ll never find scientists holding weekly group therapy sessions insisting that gravity exists and is 9.8meters per second squared. That’s how it works with things that are true.
I probably wouldn’t last ten seconds in Scientology.
Changing the subject’s a standard tactic that’s taught at Toastmasters. For those of you who aren’t familiar with Toastmasters International, it’s a group that teaches the techniques of public speaking, which in practice means teaching dull and boring people to be even more tedious, dull, and boring. How do I know this? Well, my participation in Toastmasters was strongly recommended by the Chairman and the Treasurer of the Libertarian Party of Minnesota during my brief involvement with them. To make a long story short (too late), I was called upon to speak for two minutes on a subject that I knew nothing about. The usual technique for dealing with this situation was to either change the subject or make up something to say. This to me was the height of rudeness, Instead I stood up and said this:
Mr. President, fellow Toastmasters, and honored guest, I have absolutely nothing to say on this subject. Thank you.
And then I sat down. The Chairman and the Treasurer of the LP-MN continued to pester me about attending Toastmasters until I found and ran off copies of a short story, in STARLOG magazine of all places, that mocked the organization. I never heard a word from either of them on the subject after that.
Gday my friend. You say that you are a trained auditor and you also say that their is some good from Scientology – would you say that the main good in Scientoliegy is found in auditing and is beneficial in as it achieves its aims ?
i was trained and audited as a class 4 auditor. The good I got was a degree of understanding the mechanics of the human mind so I could sometimes break down the complex mental issues created by myself and others; thus seeing a way to ease the issue , if not have it cease to be the focus of one’s attention. About a third of the people I audited got little or nothing from my auditing, and about10% got spectacular (life changing positive) results. Myself included.
I always felt that the ‘aims’ of hubbard were to stroke his ego. Why else would orgs have a reptilian bust of hubbard in the lobby. I felt hubbard had few smarts, but was sharp and shifty in controlling people (getting his way). He plagairized anything from anybody who had something workable and of use to hubbard. He did pull together a summary of semi-workable processes to address human behavior and I appreciate that. His ego demanded that he had solved the ‘human mind’ for once and forever. Thus, KSW.
Hubbard ended up making his personal army to enforce his status, and thus took the whole construct down the toilet. My opinion is that the better-aspect of hubbard left in the late 60’s and left the lesser-aspect to finish the job. Justin Craig exemplifies the latter hubbard, as does miscavige.
For me the ONLY good to come out of scientology was the training and auditing and miscavige has pretty much eliminated that.
Thank you for your reply as a never in its great to get insight from those in the know. Additional to your comments I’ll ad Hubbard also had two very strong and big weapons which were a unbelievable work rate that few match and he knew how to present, he was excellent at embellishing what he was presenting in a convincing manner.
I sometimes wonder if he in fact believed all he was teaching and was in fact of the belief he was doing good but then I think of the multiple stories such as implant stations, supposed cancer treatments, diabetic, eye sight problems benefiting as claimed from dianetics and I think Na this guy was just a very strange, very deceptive con man who was somewhat intelligent and excelled in conviction.
Naw, he’s just following the orders of the real Source of the rightful downfall of the Scientology quackery pseudo-therapy/exorcism con. L. Ron’s the long range real source.
The world has caught up to what “upper Scientology” is selling, the Xenu body-thetans earth dump exorcism project of OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. Which even Hubbard doing his own OT 7 Solo NOTs exorcism on himself, he admitted he’d failed at, at the end of his life. LRH said he failed, and he’s not coming back.
People have to read and confront and let Hubbard’s final despairing admissions he made to Sarge, listed in the end of the “Going Clear…” book, which is why Scientology is failing.
Hubbard’s quackery doesn’t work, not even on Hubbard did it “work.” Which is par for quackery, when you read a book like “Fads and Fallacies…” by Martin Gardner and see Hubbard was just one of the 20th century’s quack crackpot pseudo-science ‘great’ thinkers.
Hubbard is the source of Scientology’s failure. Miscavige is just following orders.
All are guilty, who enter and staff the con, and who pay to do the con quackery exorcism of Xenu’s imaginary body-thetans which don’t exist, but which Hubbard believed in, and got a load them to believe in. Until the end of his life Hubbard believed in his con, but at least he did momentarily admit he’d failed. Duh. Quackery crackpot founders admitting they failed, who’d have expected that.
The ending of “Going Clear…” book is still under spoken about.
He’s the most responsible for the downfall of Scientology in the sense that he was in charge while it was (is) happening and had the power to do something about it.
But LRH is the most responsible for the downfall of Scientology in the sense that he wrote the rules and guidelines on how to run the church, and David Miscavige – who is almost exactly what a scientologist should be and adheres to the guidelines almost to the letter – is running the church pretty much exactly how LRH said to do it. The evil and incompetence is baked in folks, it’s no accident.
Oh My God! This has got to be one of my favorite all time strips of yours RB!!! Just amazing!
Re: I want every one of our stupid WOG lawyers to get Star-Rated Checkouts with Clay Demos… on HCOPL 12 February 1967, “The Responsibilities of Leaders,” and I want it done by tomorrow or they don’t get paid!
This is a joke, right? David Miscavige wouldn’t force such an absurdity on his non-Scientology lawyers, would he? And if he did, he wouldn’t demand both a Star-Rated Checkout and Clay Demos of this 13-page policy letter? And if so, would he really withhold pay under such circumstances?
When I joined the Sea Org in 1977, the fence around the Complex in Los Angeles had not yet been removed. With 200 people on the Estates Project Force, we transformed an old hospital into LA Org, ASHO, and AOLA.
Training on the EPF included the Student Hat (with reel-to-reel tapes and no transcripts) as well as Volume Zero of the OEC Vols. I never finished the latter (or the EPF) because I got bogged down on the PL, “The Responsibilities of Leaders.” My training also included the PTS/SP Routing and Detection Course. And I had been in Scientology for only a matter of months.
I hope that Miscavige’s lawyers are never mistreated with checkouts, demos and the like. In fact, nobody should be subjected to such abuse.
David Miscavige is the man most responsible for the downfall of Scientology. (But that’s my opinion.)
To Otherles – Perhaps “COB” is most responsible, but for those of us out, we can much better see how LRH personally put the seeds in place to foster a group, inevitably, of cultish doom.
External — How “enemies” are handled? My god, how dark and paranoid.
Internal — The Rehabilitation Project Force — a Sea Org member is punished for whatever his or her seniors deem is punishment-worthy, adorn you in dirty, sweaty coveralls where you run everywhere and call everyone ‘Sir’ while working hard labor for many hours per day seven days a week.
I was only ever public, and I am auditor trained, which is all about improving Affinity, Reality, Communication, plus contact with and restoration of Own Truth.
I learn about all this other crud, per Policy, that is in place and practiced. I shudder because it is THE OPPOSITE of what I learned and studied.
Yet, those dark facets of Scientology are from LRH, not necessarily something I can exclusively put at the feet of David Miscavige. COB seems to be The Great Exacerbator, but he had just about all the raw materials he would ever need from Hubbard himself.
Breaks my heart. Such a waste, as there is so much good stuff there which I observe and I do believe can be genuinely helpful to people. I sometimes wonder if, like how George Lucas reports he channeled the stories that would become “Star Wars” or Gene Rodenberry touching upon a rich vein that became “Star Trek,” if Hubbard did hit upon some useful and very old workable, functioning truths. But then he claimed it was “all him” and became the sham artist, personally layering in all kinds of other ego-driven dribble, which I am sad to say, fast appears to be consuming anything that is useful and good about the technology.
Maybe down the road, the good stuff will survive.
Peridot sez: “Maybe down the road, the good stuff will survive.”
Not going to happen because there is no “good stuff” in scientology. The entirety of the subject is a fraud and a scam. Hubbard claimed that he was crippled and blinded in WW II and his early research into the mind was what cured his ailments. Hubbard was never crippled and blinded in the war and pretty much his entire service record is contrived. Afterwards he published dmsmh after claims of extensive research and he was able to produce ‘clears’ with a few hundred hours of auditing. There was no extensive research or even ANY research. There are no ‘clears’, engrams, ‘OTs’, Xenu, BTs, etc. It is all a fraud and a scam. This is well documented. No research = no results, no results = no “good stuff”. It’s that simple. Any benefit or perceived benefit from any of Hubbard’s ‘tech’ is pure coincidence and can’t be replicated. scientology is a scam, always has been always will be.
Exactly. Anecdotes are the start of investigating whether there’s any truth to a claim, not proof that it’s true. The easiest person to fool is yourself. Science is built around eliminating bias and deception; and that’s why it has so much credibility in our culture.
LRH knew that Scientology was built around self-deception, which is why he made damn sure to keep scientific testing the hell away from it.
Take the ‘success story’ every Scientologist is required to write after finishing a course: this is to try to lock in the self-deception, now that you’re done whatever you were being indoctrinated about. But real, useful, beneficial training doesn’t require reinforcement to make you believe it’s true. That’s why you’ll never find scientists holding weekly group therapy sessions insisting that gravity exists and is 9.8meters per second squared. That’s how it works with things that are true.
I probably wouldn’t last ten seconds in Scientology.
Changing the subject’s a standard tactic that’s taught at Toastmasters. For those of you who aren’t familiar with Toastmasters International, it’s a group that teaches the techniques of public speaking, which in practice means teaching dull and boring people to be even more tedious, dull, and boring. How do I know this? Well, my participation in Toastmasters was strongly recommended by the Chairman and the Treasurer of the Libertarian Party of Minnesota during my brief involvement with them. To make a long story short (too late), I was called upon to speak for two minutes on a subject that I knew nothing about. The usual technique for dealing with this situation was to either change the subject or make up something to say. This to me was the height of rudeness, Instead I stood up and said this:
Mr. President, fellow Toastmasters, and honored guest, I have absolutely nothing to say on this subject. Thank you.
And then I sat down. The Chairman and the Treasurer of the LP-MN continued to pester me about attending Toastmasters until I found and ran off copies of a short story, in STARLOG magazine of all places, that mocked the organization. I never heard a word from either of them on the subject after that.
Re: “That’s why you’ll never find scientists holding weekly group therapy sessions insisting that gravity exists..”
That conjures up quite an image, James Rosso!
Gday my friend. You say that you are a trained auditor and you also say that their is some good from Scientology – would you say that the main good in Scientoliegy is found in auditing and is beneficial in as it achieves its aims ?
xenos,
i was trained and audited as a class 4 auditor. The good I got was a degree of understanding the mechanics of the human mind so I could sometimes break down the complex mental issues created by myself and others; thus seeing a way to ease the issue , if not have it cease to be the focus of one’s attention. About a third of the people I audited got little or nothing from my auditing, and about10% got spectacular (life changing positive) results. Myself included.
I always felt that the ‘aims’ of hubbard were to stroke his ego. Why else would orgs have a reptilian bust of hubbard in the lobby. I felt hubbard had few smarts, but was sharp and shifty in controlling people (getting his way). He plagairized anything from anybody who had something workable and of use to hubbard. He did pull together a summary of semi-workable processes to address human behavior and I appreciate that. His ego demanded that he had solved the ‘human mind’ for once and forever. Thus, KSW.
Hubbard ended up making his personal army to enforce his status, and thus took the whole construct down the toilet. My opinion is that the better-aspect of hubbard left in the late 60’s and left the lesser-aspect to finish the job. Justin Craig exemplifies the latter hubbard, as does miscavige.
For me the ONLY good to come out of scientology was the training and auditing and miscavige has pretty much eliminated that.
Thank you for your reply as a never in its great to get insight from those in the know. Additional to your comments I’ll ad Hubbard also had two very strong and big weapons which were a unbelievable work rate that few match and he knew how to present, he was excellent at embellishing what he was presenting in a convincing manner.
I sometimes wonder if he in fact believed all he was teaching and was in fact of the belief he was doing good but then I think of the multiple stories such as implant stations, supposed cancer treatments, diabetic, eye sight problems benefiting as claimed from dianetics and I think Na this guy was just a very strange, very deceptive con man who was somewhat intelligent and excelled in conviction.
Hear, Hear to Jim’s remarks here.
Naw, he’s just following the orders of the real Source of the rightful downfall of the Scientology quackery pseudo-therapy/exorcism con. L. Ron’s the long range real source.
The world has caught up to what “upper Scientology” is selling, the Xenu body-thetans earth dump exorcism project of OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. Which even Hubbard doing his own OT 7 Solo NOTs exorcism on himself, he admitted he’d failed at, at the end of his life. LRH said he failed, and he’s not coming back.
People have to read and confront and let Hubbard’s final despairing admissions he made to Sarge, listed in the end of the “Going Clear…” book, which is why Scientology is failing.
Hubbard’s quackery doesn’t work, not even on Hubbard did it “work.” Which is par for quackery, when you read a book like “Fads and Fallacies…” by Martin Gardner and see Hubbard was just one of the 20th century’s quack crackpot pseudo-science ‘great’ thinkers.
Hubbard is the source of Scientology’s failure. Miscavige is just following orders.
Following Orders is NEVER a valid excuse.
Absolutely correct.
All are guilty, who enter and staff the con, and who pay to do the con quackery exorcism of Xenu’s imaginary body-thetans which don’t exist, but which Hubbard believed in, and got a load them to believe in. Until the end of his life Hubbard believed in his con, but at least he did momentarily admit he’d failed. Duh. Quackery crackpot founders admitting they failed, who’d have expected that.
The ending of “Going Clear…” book is still under spoken about.
Eh, i sort of agree and sort of disagree.
He’s the most responsible for the downfall of Scientology in the sense that he was in charge while it was (is) happening and had the power to do something about it.
But LRH is the most responsible for the downfall of Scientology in the sense that he wrote the rules and guidelines on how to run the church, and David Miscavige – who is almost exactly what a scientologist should be and adheres to the guidelines almost to the letter – is running the church pretty much exactly how LRH said to do it. The evil and incompetence is baked in folks, it’s no accident.
I agree completely and I have talked with Dave ( or Capt Miscaviage at least 7 or 8 times).