LRH said (iirc) something like: “The lowest form of communication is… bullets.”
RB demonstrates the ethics officer using LRH quotes not as communication, but rather as bullets. Using Hubbard quote in this way is designed to interiorize and block independent thought, to enforce compliance and channel behavior. The furthest thing from independent thought. While the husband is having the opposite experience. Scientologists use LRH quotes not as information but rather as bludgeons.
Supposedly Scientology trains you and prepares you to be able to “Confront anything or anyone, communicate with anything or anyone, without harm.” Yet, when you do confront some subject by reading about it, or communicate with anyone who is declared or an ex-scientologist, you are assumed to be damaged and now against Scientology, a potential enemy who must be interrogated and reformed. So which is it: A being who can confront, or a being who must not confront? That is an important question.
Unfortunately, what we are looking at today is not “Scientology” but “Miscavology”.
This is where I believe people miss the boat a bit. Everyone has their opinion/observation of where things went off the rails with Scientology and LRH and I respect that.
But that quote from “Personal Integrity” is as true as anything said by Plato or Aristotle. There is some Scientology that is good and has been helpful to people. I believe that there should be a differentiation between the two. Unfortunately, people who got in after the mid 80’s (maybe slightly sooner) have never really experienced the good part of Scientology, only Miscavology where he is using tech to suppress, manipulate and accumulate funds from the poor suckers who can’t see the difference between the two.
Some of the old timers who are still in continue to hold on to the promise of the original Scientology and THEIR purposes for helping the world with it. They feel that Scientology is still SCIENTOLOGY, and that they should be loyal to it, but it’s not Scientology anymore, Toto.
They don’t know that the Watchdog Committee is gone. That the international management system of C/S 1 through 7, that Ron put in place so that a dictator could never run Scientology, has been completely dismantled.
They don’t realize that, not only has the administrative system been hijacked, but that the tech has been changed as well.
For any of you who are reading this, if you’re still in, please check out these links. This is what Scientology has become. You can come out and get auditing by people who were trained by LRH personally – OT VIII / Class 8s at a fraction of the cost (and without reges or IAS people lurking around, waiting for you after session).
Check these links and come out and join the free Scientologists – or people who have just left because they’ve had enough of Miscavology. The Church of Debt and Slavery.
Look at how the PDC #20 has been edited and altered to remove key information about “Black Dianetics”. Who would take this out but someone who intended to use Black Dianetics against people and didn’t want to be found out?
“…and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available.
“Because this is the boy who would be electing himself “The New Order” . And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I’m concerned, have been filled.” LRH
Correct. The original Bridge has disappeared from the church, but Mike here wants to argue about that, that LRH changed that, etc.. There are people trying to run goodness knows what on NOTs who never did R6EW and the Clearing Course! Original OT VII is a natural state for a being. If you get there via Scn or via Buddhism, or via Aristotle or Catholicism, it is still the same state of exterior at will with perceptics. The Scn way is the most stable, and it IS stable. Scns seem to think that is the “it” of “it”, but it is just a beginning, just a platform. Scn is exactly correct, exactly correct, and it has the very interesting property (I guess you could call it that), of becoming transparent, there. It sort of vanishes, in a way, as if you don’t need it anymore, because you just know it. I’ll have to work on that description a bit more. You get a guy who can easily operate as an eternal being, and it isn’t hard at all for him to thin, “I was always this way”. Hubbard got it exactly right.
But there’s still something missing from the being, there, that he has to now live his own life and construct his own policies in every little way, and move into his own design of his future as it were. It’s freedom. I do not know for sure, but I don’t see any other way to analyze it other than this: individuals were not encouraged, in the church, to develop their own ethics. A lot of people left prior to the deterioration of the thing, and we don’t here much from them, so maybe they never abandoned their own integrity and personal ethics. But it seems an unavoidable conclusion to me that those still in and most who were ravaged by the travesty of a church that the Co$ turned into in LRH’s absence, have very little sense of their own admin scales, aka their own personal ethics.
I can show an admin scale to a non-Scn and in just five or ten minutes of explaining the alignment or agreement of points and checking words (e.g. “statistics”), they’ve got it and are. “Like, hey … this is cool!” But try to talk to a Scientologist about it, and oh crap! – might as well be a Republican trying to talk to a Democrat or vice-versa. I get all kinds of egocentricity and numbness and non-cog and no-reply, and probably stuck needle if they were on a meter (the cogs and comm just do not flow).
One guy recently, non-Scn but familiar with Scn based on what I’ve told him and shown him, said,
“I’m sorry about what happened to your church. It’s hard to conceive that could happen.” He understands the whole picture very well. I just said, “It’s unbelievable, isn’t it?” There was no need for anything else to be said or explained. A religion, a church, a methodology, a segment of population, got taken over, apparently with intent to destroy it. It’s unbelievable in any context. It has happened with some corporations as well – just terrible policies, leading to disaster of functionality. For whatever reasons of his own, like many who just calmly left around and after 1976, he’s not really very interested in auditing at this point. It’s a question of availability and viability, and I’m pretty sure that his caution is justified based on his own understanding and take of the whole situation. Maybe a bit more interest in training, but still, it’s a personal decision for him. (I made damn sure he understood from the first mention, that Scn is voluntary, wanting to, or not at all.) And this guy is very aware and “able”. He knows how to use admin scales, and knows it is his own life, not what I say or Ron says, or anything else. His.
I showed one woman recently an admin scale and got a bit surprised. She glanced at it and apparently took the whole thing in at once with no explanation necessary. She gave me an annoyed look when I started to explain that all points have to agree … [I paused there, seeing a trace of annoyance] … and you can use it for anything … and all scales interact and … by this time she was almost glaring at me like, “What do you think … I’m some kind of idiot, that you have to explain this to me?” So I shut up (smart … very smart). I must have ignored or missed or not-believed that she said, “Wow! This is great! Thank you!” She DID say that, I just not-believed it. She made me pay for that! Good girl!!
Always learning. Scientology is very valuable, and you don’t want to get between a hungry tiger’s jaws and claws and its fresh food. Some people just get it right away, and there are people out there who are just bigger.
My whole point is that one must have one’s own personal ethics, and one can use an admin scale to discover and define and develop one’s own ethics. Not “telling” anyone, just laying it out for consideration. It’s a bit tough at lower levels of awareness, because reactivity gets so very much in the way, fogging things, procrastinating, no-confronting, and leading off into wrong directions. Auditing and training help one through that, as one goes along, but the development is always an ongoing development which must be reviewed and revised periodically.
It’s hard for a thetan to develop his own self-discipline in this, because a thetan is so free to begin with. He feels he can do anything he wants. In a body, in that game, the structure of society does the discipline and do’s and do not’s for him. But when you find the discipline of actually thinking about life and all this, it becomes the obvious feel-good right thing. It’s just a bigger sphere, a bigger set of considerations. Personal;y, I just ran into a “Gulp!” moment, when I stepped into some new level of awareness of Policy. I realized there’s a ton of Policy I had not developed for myself. Two days later, I bumped into Plans. It seems so easy to say “plans” …. Someone might say, “Sure … I got plans … make some money, save some money, invest it, buy a new car, save more money, save for retirement, kids’ college, contingencies … then retire and be happy … die some day … and then … who knows? … I got plans, man ….” One needs Policy to move to Plans. I wonder what’s next, what I’ll bump into next. But I owe a huge debt to LRH. Huge. Best I can do on that count is develop my own ethics, and accept that huge gift. No need to say “and help others”, because that’s a part of it all.
And so we move forward into eternity, each as a unique individual, yet somehow, together. We are all identically unique.
A leaf in the wind
Carried by seasons
Who knows
Which spring it may feed?
Nickname – There you go. For those of us who DID have gains and see that there is value in the actual tech, that was beautiful.
I believe it is in the “Handbook for Preclears” where Ron talks about there being two sides to this. That some people think that auditing will, (paraphrased here) be a substitute for living life.They get auditing and auditing but don’t go out and experience life or do anything WITH the auditing or training that they have.
It’s very similar to what you’re saying about ethics and that a person has to chart their own course that way.
Also, as far as the tech itself, remember how he talked about the cultural comm lag? That it takes about 50 years for people to catch up with hew tech or inventions?
Well, I am sort of seeing that about the whole Xenu thing. “Ohhh! Ohhhh! Hubbard’s lost his MIND. Xenu indeed!” then you look at how many people are hungrily for all the “Ancient Aliens” stuff and the many more who have specific details about that time period and the war time activities. Not to mention the “Emerald Tablets” of Toth. Toth actually talks a lot about mountains and such. Very interesting.
The more I read/watch about the Ancient Sumerian texts, the more I feel that Ron researched in that vault too. Makes one wonder how much of the tech comes from these sources. “The Gods of Eden” is a very telling book about some of these things. By William Brawley, I think it is. LRH is even credited in the bibliography. Fascinating.
Anyway, thanks again for your significant (in a good way) response to my post. Well said.
And great to talk with you again, too! If you want to write me directly, Mike might be convinced to give you my direct email. 🙂
and this is almost the same thing that ended my marriage….except the “wasband” didn’t even take the time to read any of his “cogs” to me; just listened and obeyed the decision of the cult
Mike, l hope that someday you put these R.B.s in book or a comic book for all who like these so much . I think you’d sell out fast ! They’re great! Thanks.
Yeah. Great idea. Maybe it can fund the page and other capers. Like you did with the plane, over Flag. Make the new banner, “Where’s Heber?” That’ll get some TA. lol
Scientology claims to expand your mental ability when in fact it reduces it. “Not necessarily maintaining a skeptical attitude, a critical attitude or an open mind” pretty much says it all. I did a search for the word “skeptical” in Dianetics and it only appears twice and neither is positive. Losing the ability of critical or skeptical thought puts the Scientologist at an extreme disadvantage compared to the average person who was never exposed to LRH. It leads to very bad decision making. It makes you gullible and susceptible to fraud. It means that you don’t even question yourself when you come up with dumb idea. This could explain all the empty ideal orgs all over the planet.
Here’s the irony, Mark Granger: Scientologists ARE capable of skeptical thought but they are frequently skeptical, but its not a skepticism out of their analytical. They are skeptical at EFFECT. They are AUTOMATICALLY skeptical of data that does not emanate from the cherch. for the SOLE reason that the data has not been given to them by “Source”, therefore, if it pertains to Scientology, it is immediately “suspect” and probably false.
One has to PROVE to them that anything learned about the cherch, from sources outside the cherch, is true. (And good luck with THAT because they’re not allowed to READ such things or even discuss them.)
Conversely, anything the cherch says about itself, or about anything, for that matter, is automatically assumed to be true.
What they believe or disbelieve, what they question or accept unquestioningly, is ALL based on “Who said this?”
Scientologists are robots, but so are other religious groups and there are political robots too, on the right and on the left. Kids can be robotic: “Its TRUE because my Daddy says so!”. But kids, at least, have a chance to develop critical thinking and survival skills when they grow into adulthood, unless they’ve been robotized from infancy in a cult like Scientology.
“One has to PROVE to them that anything learned about the cherch, from sources outside the cherch, is true. (And good luck with THAT because they’re not allowed to READ such things or even discuss them.)”
…and that’s game, set and match, right the fuck there, for Commodore Xenu and Slappy, his Moonchild successor.!
How do you know for sure that you’ve become sucked into a cult? Here’s one sure sign: When reading, listening to and talking about any subject is prohibited by the group and that ban is enforced through sanctions.
Look, it’s simple: Friends don’t let friends do $cn, not ever! Just like you wouldn’t ever let someone step in front of a bus, you should never let anyone get anywhere near $cn if you can help it.
So, what if you have loved ones that have already fallen victim to the cult? Do what you can to get them out, never give up and work as hard as you can to see that the cult is either fundamentally reformed or completely dismantled and its assets sold to compensate the victims.
I have heard so many lies from the church that it has been effectively “Dead Agented. I can only assume that anything they say is false until proven otherwise.
Thanks, Indie. Doing OK, just crazy busy. A little depressed to learn that the child of a good friend of mine joined the SO. Low hanging fruit. 2nd generation, steeped in the cult from infancy, the whole catastrophe. “Another one bites the dust”. Hopefully the kid will observe or experience sufficient abuse early on so as to leave or blow. (Horrible, isn’t it, that I’m wishing for a young person to experience cult abuse? May God forgive me. But IMO its the ONLY way they decide to get out of there.)
Aquamarine – I so know what you mean about busy. Whew !! Here too!
Man, I so know what you mean about hoping they see the abuse quickly. I have thought the same things with my friends. Hoping against hope that it happens sooner rather than later.
At least, in that way, the overall suffering is cut short. So, see, your motives are still pure for your beloved young person. Let’s hope.
What would a clay demo of ‘nobility’ and ‘personal integrity’ look like? Don’t tell, I know it would officially involve a bust of Lron and Loyal Officers. Except not the loyal officers that Lron promoted. One died in the RPF and the other was escaped. How freakin noble is that?
Good job, RB, all those dichotomies do pile up, don’t they?
The ones who reject Scientology the most are the ones running it. Extreme bigotry runs through every level and aspect of the operations of the Cof$, from auditing to writing KRs on family members & friends after social functions. It takes a special kind of ‘stupid’ to remain in such a group. Hubbard’s flowery words about an individual’s right to their own mind & sanity have been formulated into a sort of ‘bait & switch’ mental conditioning which always results in you either being wrong, out-ethics, ignorant or recalcitrant, whichever way it’ll cost you money to buy your way back in. Back into what? Is a good question. It takes intelligence and the ability to observe the obvious to answer that question, those two things are not allowed and are punishable offences in Scientology.
my Flag MAA listened to all my reasoning for simply reading whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, coming to my own conclusions and being strong enough not to be swayed by yammering entheta.
He didn’t disagree or make me wrong.
But my program to get onto OT levels then proceeded to include about 4 intensives of:
Auditor: “have you read anything negative about Scn?” (DM, LRH, etc)
Me: answer
Auditor: get’s time, place, form, event,
Me: but reading this is not an overt
“thank you, what overt did you commit just before reading that?”
Me: uh, none, I was just reading things
Auditor: “take a look, what overt did you commit just prior to reading ___”
THAT question is burned into my mind. It was repeated over and over and over again. There was no escape, there was no moving on. I HAD to have an overt. And the overt had to have been recent and it had to some how be related to Scn.
I had to go over every single thing I had ever read or heard that was entheta and every single of those instances was then separately taken up with the auditor asking me for the prior overt.
Even when we “handled” an instance, to FN and FN at exams, they came back time and time again with the C/S having further questions about something already handled, we needed another overt, something closer to the instance of reading something, or something more to do with Scn. Or the FN wasn’t valid, etc etc.
……..
I think I am permanently damaged by this. Just typing it I have all kinds of physical and emotional reactions happening.
I paid tens of thousands of dollars to be tortured. I knew it at the time but kept on because of my eternity as a being.
That’s evaluating for the PC, which is in direct violation of the auditor’s code. When the auditing that you’ve paid through the nose for turns into interrogation and an unending shake down, then you know that it’s time to kiss the cult goodbye!
No level of honesty from you or wanting to “do the right thing” by correcting them will be of any benefit to you and will only cause them to further push you further down into their concrete and down the tone scale, at the very least.
Just become unavailable and, like Ron did when the police were chasing him, disappear.
You won’t lose your eternity. There are LRH trained auditors out here and you can continue right from where you left off, with the exception that you can actually, honestly get a correction list done to fix that F’ing collections of wrong indications.
I will DIE before I ever pick up the cans again. I would walk out into traffic. I would step into the jaws of a frothing lion. I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN subject myself to any of it.
EVER.
I went to the top and I almost went insane. It was awful.
……..
um, no thank you.
I’m no longer honest. I will lie through my teeth and pretend. I won’t let them take away my family or livelihood. Someday I may be able to stand in the light, but I won’t let them have anything before I want to give it.
I was kust trying to be encouraging IF you wanted to continue the auditing without the ridiculous duress.
Unfortunately, like I said later in this post, most people have only had Misgavology, not Scientology. Unfortunate.
However, having said that, and having had the experience of having an out of comm auditor and sh*t processes run on me late in the game (and wondering what was wrong with me because NONE of it caused any wins) I understand and empathize with your feelings about it.
So congrats that you’re able to be out and not let anyone know. I’m in the same boat. Nobody knows I’m out and they for sure don’t know that I’ve been getting auditing from a real OT VIII/Class 8 for the last 7 years. lol Best auditing I’ve had in a VERY long time. Whew.
And I agree with you. I’m never letting on until or unless I’m outted because I’m not ever going to let them do that to me, no sir. F you DM, and the bottle of Scotch you floated in on.
In the meantime, I’ll just keep planting seeds and helping people get out.
Have a great journey Secret for Now. It’s all in front of you.
As I’ve always been a poster child for Dedicated Scientologist (staff, trained, OT etc) it helps that I moved away from a close org. I use that as a handy excuse for not being on service. I should move even further. 🙂
I’m glad Flag is so far away. I always hated the Palmetto bugs all over Flag.
(in the old days we used to watch them crawl up the walls while making sentences on course)
I have no beef with anyone who wants to do scn. I just want to be able to speak freely and have the lies and abuses laid bare. Mike and Leah and the others are doing a smashing job. I love all the books that rip the veil away.
This is one of those key Hubbardisms that you get shown early on in your cult career in order to get you to let your guard down and acquiesce to their entreaties to “try it, you’ll like it”. Once you’ve swallowed the cult bait and become one with the Borg there is no room whatsoever for contradictory opinions, or even questioning cult beliefs…It’s either Elron’s way or the highway.
Fortunately for us all, more and more folks are being inoculated against this killer cult’s bizarre belief system and despicable practices well before they even come through the door and are exposed to this kind of disinformation patter to begin with.
$cn, your space alien ghost ship has already sailed and you’re so far out to sea and taking on water so quickly that even the rats know that they’ll be going down with the ship. Too bad there’s only one ship left in Elron’s faux navy or someone might be there to rescue your lame ass. Instead of arriving on some sort off BT-free Fantasy Island, it’s really nothing but a Cruise of the Damned.
Don’t believe me? Well then, just ask Elron, who went to his grave still trying to free himself from that disowned and dissociated part of his personality that he delusionally imagined was made up of thousands of dead space alien spirits that just wouldn’t leave him alone. Paying tons of money to become as mentally ill as the flounder himself is no way for any human to go through life! You may have been bad, but no one deserves that kind of soul-rape punishment!
I think you’ve identified a profoundly obvious yet mostly unacknowledged truth. Scientologists have spent enormous amounts of money with equal expenditures of effort in order to acquire the exact same depravities as L. Ron Hubbard. They have deceived themselves into thinking he was the gold standard of fulfilled human potential.
Even some who have disavowed the church for its abuses will still cling to his “tech”, particularly to his preposterous Emotional Tone Scale. That hallowed instrument explicitly maps Hubbard’s shocking deficiencies in understanding common human emotions. How big of a red flag does one need when, for instance, the emotion, ‘sympathy’ is placed not only below the emotions, ‘hate’ and ‘terror’ but also below ‘no-sympathy’???!!!
As a never-in, I may not fully understand the entire concept that LRH is discussing in his “Personal Integrity” lecture that was mentioned in today’s RB, but from an outside perspective, just on the surface, “knowing what you know” sounds much closer to arrogance than integrity in my opinion.
Throughout history, many individuals have convinced themselves that they had discovered the ultimate “truth” about certain things…..and they used these internal convictions to justify some of the worst and unimaginable atrocities ever committed.
I have no problem with the concept of “knowing what you know” to determine your own personal philosophy in life…..as long as that’s balanced with at least a small measure of humility and the concept of “knowing what you don’t know”. When we succumb to the very real temptation of convincing ourselves that we know the truth about anything, and that leads us to no longer seek out more information, then we risk losing what I consider to be one of the most important characteristics we can possess as a sentient human being…..our innate curiosity.
People these days seem to believe that “changing your mind” and admitting that you were wrong (even about insignificant beliefs) is a sign of weakness. I consider it one of the greatest strengths a person can possess (even though I occasionally fail to remember that myself). There is absolutely nothing wrong with “changing your mind”, because there is so much information available that no one person can ever learn it all. All we can do is take the information that we have found and use that information to make an informed decision, and to continue to seek out even more information to challenge our own preconceived notions of what we believe is true.
Many people seem afraid of challenging their own sets of beliefs because they fear it might “change their mind”. Yes, it might change your mind, and that’s ok if it does. But challenging yourself might also lead to an even greater sense of conviction in your current beliefs. Either way, you become more enlightened.
This RB appears to show that the mentality of most current Scientologists is the exact opposite, in that they are taught to believe in the infallibility of someone else (not themselves) and that the words of LRH are sacrosanct. This doesn’t just apply to Scientologists either. Many individuals in various religions (including in the religion of Christianity which is how I identify) believe in the infallibility of their own version of “scripture”. This type of “rock brain” mentality also seems to extend to many other areas of life as well, including politics.
I believe that it’s important for us to be able to admit that we COULD be wrong….about anything. Otherwise, we place ourselves into a mental prison that we ourselves are individually responsible for creating. As for myself, as difficult as this is, I ultimately have to “practice what I preach” and concede that I personally COULD be wrong in everything I’ve said in this comment.
Excellent comment, Mick, and thanks. I have broken my tools on a number of “rock-brained” folks, both in and out of Scientology.
“Knowledge is certainty.” A false idea from Hubbard.
“What is true is what is true for you” unless it ain’t true for Hubbard or Dave or your superior officer or the Ethics Officer. In that case it is “Their way or the highway,” my advice is take the highway out of there as soon as possible.
“I think that religion at it’s best comes with a big dose of doubt. I’m suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.
I think that, particularly as somebody who’s now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart, there’s an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty.” President Barack Obama
It is harder to know what you don’t know. Good science always comes with error bars on the graphs that estimate the uncertainty. Any time someone says there is no uncertainty they are lying. Good Christians would do well to remember 1 Corinthians 13:8-13. For the rest of you I offer Karl Popper https://www.brainpickings.org/2017/01/26/karl-popper-in-search-of-a-better-world-truth-certainty/ “Knowledge consists in the search for truth… It is not the search for certainty.” Karl Popper
One of the things that I think is so ironic and interesting is that not only can you find justifications for the cruel practices and insane teachings, you can also find *condemnations* of them as well. LRH was ALL OVER THE PLACE in his writing, sometimes talking like a pharmaceutical executive “Dianetimycin will cure your cancer, of course we can’t just give it away”, other times sounding like a paranoid living in a bunker “We have to prepare for the nuclear war launched by reptoids err aliens err psychs. If you doubt this, you are obviously a psych here to contaminate our precious bodily fluids!”, and other times a new age guru like in the RB up above. I don’t think any one aspect can be ignored. (I think there is plenty of evidence that Hubbard wanted to money selling a product he believed in and used himself, but developed a persecution complex and probably clinical paranoia.
The result is a hot mess of doctrine and the perfect stage for Deviant Miscarriage. If the Indies can sort something out of the mess, more power to them, but as it is you can’t accept the whole Hubbard doctrine without contradicting yourself. Also, you have to accept that LRH was driven into despair by his failure to achieve his goals, so the Tech could not work for its Source.
This is part of why I simply do not understand Scientology. If the members believe Elron is The Founder and if The Founder’s words are so important that secret, underground bunkers have to be built to preserve them why is it that those same writings are not being followed? As a Never-In, from what I have been reading, from this blog and from Leah’s show, I do not understand how anyone who is forced to study LRH’s writings ad nauseum will then be able to justify or reconcile the actions of the Organization which seem so incredibly far from the words. On the other hand maybe this is exactly the dichotomy that IS Scientology and that was LRH. He wrote of wanting to help people, of wanting to “Clear” people of all the negative in their lives while at the same time he was a pathological liar, a bigot and a violent, unstable man. Those same traits seem to sum up, for me, Scientology (and DM). Now that I think of it, perhaps Scientology is not as far off from it’s Founder as I first believed.
It’s no different than the people who re “all in” for our new POTUS and can see no wrongness in him despite all the obvious things many people can see about him.
Which are similar thoughts I have about those who were “all in” for the the big loser who still, apparently, can see no wrongness in her, including her criminal activities which were publicly revealed.. You can’t have it both ways, Valkov. 🙂
azhlynne, the answer lies with the fact that you CANNOT follow the writings without violating the writings. For every rule that says to do “A”. There is a rule saying to NOT do “A”. Or, to do “B” instead of “A”.
Sounds like double speak? That we observed what we observed and say what we’ve observed and take care to observe what we observe.
Like personal integrity is knowing what you know and saying what you know about what you know….?
The amount of times I read an LRH bulletin or policy that sounded like double speak is amazing. I would often read a sentence or paragraph(s) over and over trying to make sense out of it, finally determining that I just wasn’t intelligent enough to understand this enlightened being. Either that or I would just start to nod off. Heck, there were engineers, doctors and so many other professionals that understand his crap – my lack of education has to be the problem…bull.
Many of DM’s speeches have the same gobbledygook flavor.
That’s where a dictionaty comes in handy. “observe” has 3 disticnt definitions in English, and Hubbard used each one successively in that sentence. It’s a play on the word.
Thank you RB for another engaging dialogue on the contradictions within scientology. On one hand the scientologist is told to observe and speak freely what they have observed. On the other hand they are told to not spread or engage with “entheta”. That rules out confronting it.
The church brutally enforces the avoiding of entheta which means it enforces the scientologist to be the ‘effect’ of it rather than being ‘at cause’ over it! Need I point out that is a violation of the Tenant Supreme? To be AT CAUSE!
Run away from declared SP’s, run away from websites, run away from enturbulation, run run run. Yes, the cowardly little weaklings with shit for brains are showing us how scientology is mankind’s last and only hope. (Of course that was never anything but an effective sales gimmick.)
Roger: “On one hand the scientologist is told to observe and speak freely what they have observed. On the other hand they are told to not spread or engage with ‘entheta’.”
The church says to not spread or engage with entheta, but I don’t know of anywhere LRH ever said that, other than specifically in relation to engaging with declared “SPs” (both individuals and groups). Do you?
I dont have time to look them up, so I will give you some good old fashioned “verbal tech” – just quickly off the top of my head:
The Anti-social Personality only passes on bad news/entheta
There is even a Hubbard term used to describe this: “Glutz PR” and “spreading the flap” in the PR Series
“Crimes” of spreading bad news or rumors about “senior scientologists”
Science of Survival about “handling truth”
Thanks, Mike. I thought about the Anti-social Personality bulletin, but it’s more of a description of what SP’s do than what members are forbidden to do. Same for Science of Survival, which gives a description of how the different tone levels handle truth.
However, what you said about ‘crimes’ of spreading bad news or rumors about ‘senior scientologists'” is probably what the church uses to stop members from telling others what they heard on the news, etc.
But Scientologists pass on bad news of all kinds – and I think they would do so with bad news about the church if they weren’t threatened with dire consequences.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing that this is a policy that dictates not to pass on bad news? Now you seem to be saying the practice is not allowed and is enforced? Which is what I said in the first place?
I don’t know why you have to get yourself so tied in knots trying to defend the indefensible….
marildisays
What I don’t really see is any reference that says to avoid entheta such as reading a news story or watching a program that is negative about Scientology. Back when there was all the news about the GO, for example, I don’t think Scientologists were told not to read any of it. It was at some point later that this changed (but correct me if I’m wrong).
I do agree with you about the reference for not *passing on* bad news or rumors about “senior scientologists.” That answered my question.
Mike Rindersays
You see what you want to see…
Mike Wynskisays
Mike, I’ll add another verbal reference. The reference on NON-ENTURBULATION orders from LRH. Violation one by spreading entheta results in an SP Declare per LRH
marildi, you may relax. I am not, on the occasion of this particular comment, making an overt dig at the lying sociopath and not-ready-for-primetime philosopher, Ron Hubbard. My dig is aimed at the members. They have been successfully steered away from the highest principle of scientology (being at cause, NOT at effect) onto the path of ‘total effect’ by having the fear of entheta instilled in them. AND THEY DON’T EVEN SEE IT!
How could adults of at least average intelligence be so reduced? You may be happy to know that I don’t blame Mr. Hubbard. Not so much, anyway. But nor do I blame Adolph Hitler for what the Nazi’s did. Not so much, anyway.
“My dig is aimed at the members. They have been successfully steered away from the highest principle of scientology (being at cause, NOT at effect) onto the path of ‘total effect’ by having the fear of entheta instilled in them. AND THEY DON’T EVEN SEE IT!”
Marildi – To me the obvious distinction is between “entheta” as malicious lies (for example), and observation of, and talk about, true outpoints. The “alleged” absence of the OEC volumes from Co$ course rooms is, for example, an obvious outpoint, and talking about it is not “entheta” at all. More like “theta”, including finding out who had them removed, who complied with those orders, when, and why (plus other tech for rectifying glaring outpoints). Anyone who says they are totally free from all entheta at all times is either delusional or not telling the truth. The majority, most of the time, are very theta, even if it’s just chatter about white sales or painting boat hulls, but it doesn’t take much to get most people to have momentarily hurt feelings and start trading insults. Conceiving of and drawing up a scale of severity of entheta would be interesting, and is probably already done in the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation. E.g. “I didn’t steal any cookies [lie]!” is obviously not on the same scale of damage as “All White Hats steal money and subvert families, so they must be killed” broadcast over news outlets. Degrees of enturbulation vary widely in intensity and in duration, so one gets PTS, PTS Type II, PTS Type III, and SP.
Just trying to contribute to the topic, here. My quest, my Mission, is to find even one perfectly sane being, anywhere. So far, no luck. The genius of Scientology was to put all this together with everything else and relate all the parts, but Hubbard was absolutely nuts to publish it all and start a church!
Good point about entheta. Here’s a definition from the tech dictionary:
“means enturbulated theta (thought or life); especially refers to communications, which, based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group. (Scn AD)”
By that definition, news or any communication about the church should not be prohibited if it isn’t “based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group.” Thus, they would have to determine what it was based on in order to determine if it were entheta. Obviously, the church doesn’t allow that.
In the mind of a scientologist, EVERYTHING that is not in full agreement with scientology is based on lies and confusions and intended to suppress…. That is the nature of the beast.
A common example, widely accepted in the normal social world occurred to me.
An imbalance of evaluation can be entheta, if it serves no purpose. For example, Bob is a good guy, but drinks a bit. If he has been drinking a bit at a party and is about to drive someone home, mentioning that “He drinks a bit” has a useful purpose. By contrast, introducing Bob to someone at work – Bob is a good guy, remember – then mentioning behind his back, “He drinks a bit” is, to me, entheta. The reason it’s entheta is that there were many different virtues which could have been mentioned, such as “He quarter-backed a winning team for three years”, or “He has two Labrador puppies”, or “He’s one of our good guys”, yet those were not mentioned. Most people will notice these or similar discrepancies, will notice the “cognitive dissonance”, and won’t pass it off as “critical thinking”. The social world tends to be pretty forgiving, but one always wonders, I guess, what that person might be saying about them.
(This isn’t necessarily sequitur to anything in particular here, just an observation that popped up.)
Why, thank you Aqua. Your example below is better (imho, of course, wouldn’t want to evaluate, hehe).
The value of theta communication. Maybe 15,000 years ago in pre-Ancient Egypt, one guy said to another, “Look at that locust riding on that leaf on that river.” The other says, “Hey! I just had an idea!” (And today we have Yue-Kong Pao – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue-Kong_Pao ). Actually, “2001: A Space Odyssey” is still my fav, with the chimp scene, but whatever. Each of us has the capability for it all to be wonderful.
I was involved with a mission in the 70s which had none of Hubbard’s books on display, had no org board in view. They did not have any “green” volumes available, either. The mission holder kept only one policy available to the staff and public: “We always deliver what we promise.” Seemed to work very well. And might be of great value in running any business, as well. 🙂 Seems to have been dropped out of scio entirely nowadays…and for many decades past.
marilidi, this may bolster Roger’s point more than answer your question, but to begin with, the third definition of entheta in my old (not sure of the date) tech dictionary, includes anger, which might be something that someone would want to speak about after having observed something:
I have seen that used to shut down and invalidate upsets people had with things done wrong by staff or by the organization.
One of the other definitions referred to Science of Survival, which has this gem:
“While it may be true that something is destructive or that a person is bad, if it serves no purpose to make the statement, the issuance of this “truth” is in reality the establishing of an entheta line.”
While it contains some qualification, I think that itself warns people against telling any controversial truths that could be interpreted as entheta.
Peacemaker, I definitely agree that this datum could and does warn people (Scientologists) against telling any controversial truths.
On the other hand, lets say you have a good friend who has an autistic child – and at a party you introduce your friend to others you know and she doesn’t like this: “Everyone, I’d like you to meet my dear friend, Sharon, whose 24 year old daughter still lives at home with a full time nurse because the girl is severely and incurably autistic”.
Now, I would consider that bit of truth telling in such a situation to be the establishment of an entheta line. I grant you its an extreme example.
In social situations, in many relationship situations, one can be honest, maintain ones integrity while at the same time be actively practicing tactful reserve.
Certainly, in courts of law it is imperative that one be obligated to tell “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”, but where else do we habitually do this?
Theta vs entheta. Good manners vs bad manners. If we can refer to an “entheta line” may we also refer to a “bad manners line”?
I think the theta/entheta concept is booby trapped. It wants to make bad manners into a crime, an insult into a declaration of war. It mainly serves to impose seriousness where seriousness ought not be allowed to take root. Better, I think, to speak in terms of what is appropriate for the situation and what is not appropriate for the situation. And never forget the power of humor.
Love it…”Tenant Supreme”! That would be the Ghost of Elron, who’s taken up permanent residence in the mind of every true believer $cilon.
There may not be any implanting stations on Mars or Venus, but there sure are here on earth, where every single $cn org was designed to implant you with the lies, delusions and nonsense that the flounder himself purposefully designed in order to enslave whoever walks through its doors.
I got your “Cause” right here, Elron…now, bugger off and plague us no more with your malevolent idiocy!
RB certainly hits home with his weekly cartoons. This one especially reminds me of what happened with my youngest son, Craig. Lois and I were in the process of being “handled” at AOLA so that I would not be declared and lose Craig. One night we were having a family get together, with all 3 sons. I had drank a few cans of courage and cornered Craig and asked him that if things went south in our “handling” and we got declared, would he disconnect from us? His response was that he would NEVER disconnect from us. He was quite emphatic about that. I then happily mentioned his response to the other 2 boys.
Fast forward 2 years or so later and it has been 706 days since we last spoke with him.
All Scientologists should demonstrate with paper-clips, bottle tops and marbles “personal integrity” or even better make little, disfigured men out of clay and stick stupid pieces of paper labels on them as it would seem that personal integrity doesn’t exist any longer amongst the chosen.
Jeez. Being told that he would never disconnect from you and having the confidence that your family will be held together despite what this “church” unilaterally decided to “declare”…..going from that to actually having one of them disconnect from you has to be a total mind bender. Can the church not just show appreciation for all that the former members had done for them (in time, money, dedication, etc.)?
No wonder you’re “clearly pissed off”……and you have every right to be.
It shows the level of their brainwashing and undue influence they project onto their sheep. Going from a from-the-heart declaration of never disconnecting from us, to moving twice just to make sure we do not know where he is living is a definite mind binder.
The cherch doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all the time, dedication, blah blah. If you’re in, you gotta just keep ponying up the bucks. And STFU and don’t make waves.
You actually had the conversation and he was probably fully honest and confident of his answer.
I would venture to guess that he was later “handled” to see that disconnecting was the kindest thing, that it was the path to helping you and your wife to coming to your senses and you getting back onto the road to salvation.
And…
that regardless, it was HIS eternity at stake and this family is just a current construct and a blip on his time track, blah blah blah.
Every day I’m stunned at the depth of my own brainwashing.
What strikes me as interesting today is that, according to Hubbard, “honor,” “truth,” and “nobility” are esoteric terms. I think he needs to word clear “esoteric.” What’s really going on here has to do with an Ethics officer telling you to grok the difference between “having the courage to know and say what you observed” and “spreading entheta.” Hubbard wants to take everyday words that you perfectly understand the meaning of already, and tell you that you don’t know what they mean. Redefinition of language is a core tool of all cult systems. Honor, truth, nobility, courage, integrity are well ingrained ideas, and they evoke a emotional response. Scientology redefines those terms to suit their own ends, but takes advantage of the positive emotions that we associate with what we already knew them to mean. The dictionary is a prop. You are not expected to read the definition. You are expected to hypnotize yourself into agreeing with your handler by reading the dictionary.
“The dictionary is a prop. You are not expected to read the definition. You are expected to hypnotize yourself into agreeing with your handler by reading the dictionary.” —- Never being a person who was in this group, this helps make more sense. Every time I have seen people talk about being sent to the dictionary I always think, why don’t they come back and show them how little sense it makes based on what’s in the dictionary?!?!
It seems like they like to confuse people into accepting and following (who wants to be the stupid one that doesn’t get it). So there go all the sheep following the Wolf dressed as a shepherd, feeding them lamb chops and telling them it’s Fish. LIES!
The juxtaposition between the reality of Hubbard’s life as a truly deplorable pathological liar and malignant narcissist that sought to enslave men and seduce women is jarring to Scientologists and exes. His plagiarized ideas on morality and ethics are used to rope in the cult members.
He talked the talk of a compassionate visionary. So those ideas seem great. They’re just the false promises a predator uses to lure their prey in the seduction phase of a relationship. This is meant to win your trust and unending faith. With that established the abuse and eventual discard phases of the relationship can be moved toward.
Also, if the victim has become vulnerable or dependent the abuse can begin in earnest.
But the nice social relationship supporting doctrine is used to establish the trust and to reinforce it when the relationship is begun.
Hubbard just acted like you matter, your opinion matters and honesty matters so he could twist you away from all those things and have you be sure he wasn’t doing exactly what he actually was. And never listen to anyone that tries to warn you.
Reginald, I find your comment to be very insightful for a never-in into the techniques that were employed by LRH to lure people into this philosophy that, on its surface, had to seem so full of promise. These techniques also seem as if they would apply to other initially charismatic, yet ultimately abusive, leaders of various groups.
Yes, I believe in this case they would apply ‘the SP hides behind policy and uses it to enturbulate others’ or something of the sort. I do remember asking about these contradictions and was told it is to do with issue date, of course they are pretty screwed as no one is allowed to change or alter any original policy (miscavige of course is exempt from this rule and changes things to suit his own agenda).
You threw out perfectly good meat! Was it a tri tip? Is it still there? Man, I have a great bottle of Chianti that would have been perfect with that meat you threw out.
Regraded Being is always a bit uncomfortable to read and that is probably a good thing because it deals in uncomfortable truths and realities! After reading the biography on LRH, it is quite obvious that LRH had no integrity or honor, ever. LRH could not even tell the truth about himself and his own personal history. He was a pathological liar and hypocrite and that colours everything he said and did! I always had my eyes wide shut while in the organisation!
You have reached a very logical observation Eh+Eh. Hubbard, if one looks at him from a technical aspect certainly required to do his own Bridge and ethical procedures. He’s a failed or non existent Grade 0 for a start and ARCSW would be worthy of checking out too. Almost any repair list prefixed with “Concerning KSW would seem a good place to start and then followed up by sec checks with what is found. With all the self auditing he did he never spotted the fact he required the most basic of stuff concerning his own life – honesty with his Dynamics!
It’s like he looked at his own behavior and mental processes, reversed it and came up with the subject of Scientology.
Plain and simple… great again RB. Keep it up. ML, Alfo
It all depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is. I did not have sexual relations, with that woman, miss Lewinski.
Great RB today!
And it brings up a couple of thoughts:
LRH said (iirc) something like: “The lowest form of communication is… bullets.”
RB demonstrates the ethics officer using LRH quotes not as communication, but rather as bullets. Using Hubbard quote in this way is designed to interiorize and block independent thought, to enforce compliance and channel behavior. The furthest thing from independent thought. While the husband is having the opposite experience. Scientologists use LRH quotes not as information but rather as bludgeons.
Supposedly Scientology trains you and prepares you to be able to “Confront anything or anyone, communicate with anything or anyone, without harm.” Yet, when you do confront some subject by reading about it, or communicate with anyone who is declared or an ex-scientologist, you are assumed to be damaged and now against Scientology, a potential enemy who must be interrogated and reformed. So which is it: A being who can confront, or a being who must not confront? That is an important question.
Unfortunately, what we are looking at today is not “Scientology” but “Miscavology”.
This is where I believe people miss the boat a bit. Everyone has their opinion/observation of where things went off the rails with Scientology and LRH and I respect that.
But that quote from “Personal Integrity” is as true as anything said by Plato or Aristotle. There is some Scientology that is good and has been helpful to people. I believe that there should be a differentiation between the two. Unfortunately, people who got in after the mid 80’s (maybe slightly sooner) have never really experienced the good part of Scientology, only Miscavology where he is using tech to suppress, manipulate and accumulate funds from the poor suckers who can’t see the difference between the two.
Some of the old timers who are still in continue to hold on to the promise of the original Scientology and THEIR purposes for helping the world with it. They feel that Scientology is still SCIENTOLOGY, and that they should be loyal to it, but it’s not Scientology anymore, Toto.
They don’t know that the Watchdog Committee is gone. That the international management system of C/S 1 through 7, that Ron put in place so that a dictator could never run Scientology, has been completely dismantled.
They don’t realize that, not only has the administrative system been hijacked, but that the tech has been changed as well.
For any of you who are reading this, if you’re still in, please check out these links. This is what Scientology has become. You can come out and get auditing by people who were trained by LRH personally – OT VIII / Class 8s at a fraction of the cost (and without reges or IAS people lurking around, waiting for you after session).
Check these links and come out and join the free Scientologists – or people who have just left because they’ve had enough of Miscavology. The Church of Debt and Slavery.
Look at how the PDC #20 has been edited and altered to remove key information about “Black Dianetics”. Who would take this out but someone who intended to use Black Dianetics against people and didn’t want to be found out?
“…and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available.
“Because this is the boy who would be electing himself “The New Order” . And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I’m concerned, have been filled.” LRH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG9X0gEedDs
And compare Scientology (LRH) to current Miscavology. Detailed references and comparisons here:
http://friendsoflrh.org/
It’s your journey. Where do you want to arrive?
Indie8million –
Correct. The original Bridge has disappeared from the church, but Mike here wants to argue about that, that LRH changed that, etc.. There are people trying to run goodness knows what on NOTs who never did R6EW and the Clearing Course! Original OT VII is a natural state for a being. If you get there via Scn or via Buddhism, or via Aristotle or Catholicism, it is still the same state of exterior at will with perceptics. The Scn way is the most stable, and it IS stable. Scns seem to think that is the “it” of “it”, but it is just a beginning, just a platform. Scn is exactly correct, exactly correct, and it has the very interesting property (I guess you could call it that), of becoming transparent, there. It sort of vanishes, in a way, as if you don’t need it anymore, because you just know it. I’ll have to work on that description a bit more. You get a guy who can easily operate as an eternal being, and it isn’t hard at all for him to thin, “I was always this way”. Hubbard got it exactly right.
But there’s still something missing from the being, there, that he has to now live his own life and construct his own policies in every little way, and move into his own design of his future as it were. It’s freedom. I do not know for sure, but I don’t see any other way to analyze it other than this: individuals were not encouraged, in the church, to develop their own ethics. A lot of people left prior to the deterioration of the thing, and we don’t here much from them, so maybe they never abandoned their own integrity and personal ethics. But it seems an unavoidable conclusion to me that those still in and most who were ravaged by the travesty of a church that the Co$ turned into in LRH’s absence, have very little sense of their own admin scales, aka their own personal ethics.
I can show an admin scale to a non-Scn and in just five or ten minutes of explaining the alignment or agreement of points and checking words (e.g. “statistics”), they’ve got it and are. “Like, hey … this is cool!” But try to talk to a Scientologist about it, and oh crap! – might as well be a Republican trying to talk to a Democrat or vice-versa. I get all kinds of egocentricity and numbness and non-cog and no-reply, and probably stuck needle if they were on a meter (the cogs and comm just do not flow).
One guy recently, non-Scn but familiar with Scn based on what I’ve told him and shown him, said,
“I’m sorry about what happened to your church. It’s hard to conceive that could happen.” He understands the whole picture very well. I just said, “It’s unbelievable, isn’t it?” There was no need for anything else to be said or explained. A religion, a church, a methodology, a segment of population, got taken over, apparently with intent to destroy it. It’s unbelievable in any context. It has happened with some corporations as well – just terrible policies, leading to disaster of functionality. For whatever reasons of his own, like many who just calmly left around and after 1976, he’s not really very interested in auditing at this point. It’s a question of availability and viability, and I’m pretty sure that his caution is justified based on his own understanding and take of the whole situation. Maybe a bit more interest in training, but still, it’s a personal decision for him. (I made damn sure he understood from the first mention, that Scn is voluntary, wanting to, or not at all.) And this guy is very aware and “able”. He knows how to use admin scales, and knows it is his own life, not what I say or Ron says, or anything else. His.
I showed one woman recently an admin scale and got a bit surprised. She glanced at it and apparently took the whole thing in at once with no explanation necessary. She gave me an annoyed look when I started to explain that all points have to agree … [I paused there, seeing a trace of annoyance] … and you can use it for anything … and all scales interact and … by this time she was almost glaring at me like, “What do you think … I’m some kind of idiot, that you have to explain this to me?” So I shut up (smart … very smart). I must have ignored or missed or not-believed that she said, “Wow! This is great! Thank you!” She DID say that, I just not-believed it. She made me pay for that! Good girl!!
Always learning. Scientology is very valuable, and you don’t want to get between a hungry tiger’s jaws and claws and its fresh food. Some people just get it right away, and there are people out there who are just bigger.
My whole point is that one must have one’s own personal ethics, and one can use an admin scale to discover and define and develop one’s own ethics. Not “telling” anyone, just laying it out for consideration. It’s a bit tough at lower levels of awareness, because reactivity gets so very much in the way, fogging things, procrastinating, no-confronting, and leading off into wrong directions. Auditing and training help one through that, as one goes along, but the development is always an ongoing development which must be reviewed and revised periodically.
It’s hard for a thetan to develop his own self-discipline in this, because a thetan is so free to begin with. He feels he can do anything he wants. In a body, in that game, the structure of society does the discipline and do’s and do not’s for him. But when you find the discipline of actually thinking about life and all this, it becomes the obvious feel-good right thing. It’s just a bigger sphere, a bigger set of considerations. Personal;y, I just ran into a “Gulp!” moment, when I stepped into some new level of awareness of Policy. I realized there’s a ton of Policy I had not developed for myself. Two days later, I bumped into Plans. It seems so easy to say “plans” …. Someone might say, “Sure … I got plans … make some money, save some money, invest it, buy a new car, save more money, save for retirement, kids’ college, contingencies … then retire and be happy … die some day … and then … who knows? … I got plans, man ….” One needs Policy to move to Plans. I wonder what’s next, what I’ll bump into next. But I owe a huge debt to LRH. Huge. Best I can do on that count is develop my own ethics, and accept that huge gift. No need to say “and help others”, because that’s a part of it all.
And so we move forward into eternity, each as a unique individual, yet somehow, together. We are all identically unique.
A leaf in the wind
Carried by seasons
Who knows
Which spring it may feed?
Nickname – There you go. For those of us who DID have gains and see that there is value in the actual tech, that was beautiful.
I believe it is in the “Handbook for Preclears” where Ron talks about there being two sides to this. That some people think that auditing will, (paraphrased here) be a substitute for living life.They get auditing and auditing but don’t go out and experience life or do anything WITH the auditing or training that they have.
It’s very similar to what you’re saying about ethics and that a person has to chart their own course that way.
Also, as far as the tech itself, remember how he talked about the cultural comm lag? That it takes about 50 years for people to catch up with hew tech or inventions?
Well, I am sort of seeing that about the whole Xenu thing. “Ohhh! Ohhhh! Hubbard’s lost his MIND. Xenu indeed!” then you look at how many people are hungrily for all the “Ancient Aliens” stuff and the many more who have specific details about that time period and the war time activities. Not to mention the “Emerald Tablets” of Toth. Toth actually talks a lot about mountains and such. Very interesting.
The more I read/watch about the Ancient Sumerian texts, the more I feel that Ron researched in that vault too. Makes one wonder how much of the tech comes from these sources. “The Gods of Eden” is a very telling book about some of these things. By William Brawley, I think it is. LRH is even credited in the bibliography. Fascinating.
Anyway, thanks again for your significant (in a good way) response to my post. Well said.
And great to talk with you again, too! If you want to write me directly, Mike might be convinced to give you my direct email. 🙂
Talk soon, either way!
indie8million
Your inbox is full so cannot forward Nickname’s email address to you.
Beautiful, Nickname.
and this is almost the same thing that ended my marriage….except the “wasband” didn’t even take the time to read any of his “cogs” to me; just listened and obeyed the decision of the cult
All I got from reading the “hubbardisms” was a rather unpleasant headache.
Coffee stains are really hard to get out!
Mike, l hope that someday you put these R.B.s in book or a comic book for all who like these so much . I think you’d sell out fast ! They’re great! Thanks.
Yeah. Great idea. Maybe it can fund the page and other capers. Like you did with the plane, over Flag. Make the new banner, “Where’s Heber?” That’ll get some TA. lol
Scientology claims to expand your mental ability when in fact it reduces it. “Not necessarily maintaining a skeptical attitude, a critical attitude or an open mind” pretty much says it all. I did a search for the word “skeptical” in Dianetics and it only appears twice and neither is positive. Losing the ability of critical or skeptical thought puts the Scientologist at an extreme disadvantage compared to the average person who was never exposed to LRH. It leads to very bad decision making. It makes you gullible and susceptible to fraud. It means that you don’t even question yourself when you come up with dumb idea. This could explain all the empty ideal orgs all over the planet.
Here’s the irony, Mark Granger: Scientologists ARE capable of skeptical thought but they are frequently skeptical, but its not a skepticism out of their analytical. They are skeptical at EFFECT. They are AUTOMATICALLY skeptical of data that does not emanate from the cherch. for the SOLE reason that the data has not been given to them by “Source”, therefore, if it pertains to Scientology, it is immediately “suspect” and probably false.
One has to PROVE to them that anything learned about the cherch, from sources outside the cherch, is true. (And good luck with THAT because they’re not allowed to READ such things or even discuss them.)
Conversely, anything the cherch says about itself, or about anything, for that matter, is automatically assumed to be true.
What they believe or disbelieve, what they question or accept unquestioningly, is ALL based on “Who said this?”
Scientologists are robots, but so are other religious groups and there are political robots too, on the right and on the left. Kids can be robotic: “Its TRUE because my Daddy says so!”. But kids, at least, have a chance to develop critical thinking and survival skills when they grow into adulthood, unless they’ve been robotized from infancy in a cult like Scientology.
Edit: “…not a skepticism out of their analytical abilities”.
“One has to PROVE to them that anything learned about the cherch, from sources outside the cherch, is true. (And good luck with THAT because they’re not allowed to READ such things or even discuss them.)”
…and that’s game, set and match, right the fuck there, for Commodore Xenu and Slappy, his Moonchild successor.!
How do you know for sure that you’ve become sucked into a cult? Here’s one sure sign: When reading, listening to and talking about any subject is prohibited by the group and that ban is enforced through sanctions.
Look, it’s simple: Friends don’t let friends do $cn, not ever! Just like you wouldn’t ever let someone step in front of a bus, you should never let anyone get anywhere near $cn if you can help it.
So, what if you have loved ones that have already fallen victim to the cult? Do what you can to get them out, never give up and work as hard as you can to see that the cult is either fundamentally reformed or completely dismantled and its assets sold to compensate the victims.
I have heard so many lies from the church that it has been effectively “Dead Agented. I can only assume that anything they say is false until proven otherwise.
Great points, as usual, Aquamarine. Been missin’ hearing your voice of reason and logic. Hope you’re doing great!
Thanks, Indie. Doing OK, just crazy busy. A little depressed to learn that the child of a good friend of mine joined the SO. Low hanging fruit. 2nd generation, steeped in the cult from infancy, the whole catastrophe. “Another one bites the dust”. Hopefully the kid will observe or experience sufficient abuse early on so as to leave or blow. (Horrible, isn’t it, that I’m wishing for a young person to experience cult abuse? May God forgive me. But IMO its the ONLY way they decide to get out of there.)
Aquamarine – I so know what you mean about busy. Whew !! Here too!
Man, I so know what you mean about hoping they see the abuse quickly. I have thought the same things with my friends. Hoping against hope that it happens sooner rather than later.
At least, in that way, the overall suffering is cut short. So, see, your motives are still pure for your beloved young person. Let’s hope.
indie8million – Good to see you back here, too!
Thanks Nickname. I circle back here whenever my orbit is close enough…sort of like Nibiru – except there’s more proof of me. lol
The “new couch” was a great touch, Mike!
What would a clay demo of ‘nobility’ and ‘personal integrity’ look like? Don’t tell, I know it would officially involve a bust of Lron and Loyal Officers. Except not the loyal officers that Lron promoted. One died in the RPF and the other was escaped. How freakin noble is that?
Good job, RB, all those dichotomies do pile up, don’t they?
The ones who reject Scientology the most are the ones running it. Extreme bigotry runs through every level and aspect of the operations of the Cof$, from auditing to writing KRs on family members & friends after social functions. It takes a special kind of ‘stupid’ to remain in such a group. Hubbard’s flowery words about an individual’s right to their own mind & sanity have been formulated into a sort of ‘bait & switch’ mental conditioning which always results in you either being wrong, out-ethics, ignorant or recalcitrant, whichever way it’ll cost you money to buy your way back in. Back into what? Is a good question. It takes intelligence and the ability to observe the obvious to answer that question, those two things are not allowed and are punishable offences in Scientology.
Superb comment.
+1
my Flag MAA listened to all my reasoning for simply reading whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, coming to my own conclusions and being strong enough not to be swayed by yammering entheta.
He didn’t disagree or make me wrong.
But my program to get onto OT levels then proceeded to include about 4 intensives of:
Auditor: “have you read anything negative about Scn?” (DM, LRH, etc)
Me: answer
Auditor: get’s time, place, form, event,
Me: but reading this is not an overt
“thank you, what overt did you commit just before reading that?”
Me: uh, none, I was just reading things
Auditor: “take a look, what overt did you commit just prior to reading ___”
THAT question is burned into my mind. It was repeated over and over and over again. There was no escape, there was no moving on. I HAD to have an overt. And the overt had to have been recent and it had to some how be related to Scn.
I had to go over every single thing I had ever read or heard that was entheta and every single of those instances was then separately taken up with the auditor asking me for the prior overt.
Even when we “handled” an instance, to FN and FN at exams, they came back time and time again with the C/S having further questions about something already handled, we needed another overt, something closer to the instance of reading something, or something more to do with Scn. Or the FN wasn’t valid, etc etc.
……..
I think I am permanently damaged by this. Just typing it I have all kinds of physical and emotional reactions happening.
I paid tens of thousands of dollars to be tortured. I knew it at the time but kept on because of my eternity as a being.
…and the question was WHAT overt. Not “did you commit an overt”.
That
is just pure evil.
Pure, unadulterated evil. The kind of evil that gives you chills…
That’s evaluating for the PC, which is in direct violation of the auditor’s code. When the auditing that you’ve paid through the nose for turns into interrogation and an unending shake down, then you know that it’s time to kiss the cult goodbye!
“I think I am permanently damaged by this.”
Jesus, I think I’ve been permanently damaged just reading about it!
I keep asking: “How does one lose an eternity?” The concept of it is an absurdity. Nor could anyone “take it away from you.”
Secret for now – Just slip out the back, Jack.
No level of honesty from you or wanting to “do the right thing” by correcting them will be of any benefit to you and will only cause them to further push you further down into their concrete and down the tone scale, at the very least.
Just become unavailable and, like Ron did when the police were chasing him, disappear.
You won’t lose your eternity. There are LRH trained auditors out here and you can continue right from where you left off, with the exception that you can actually, honestly get a correction list done to fix that F’ing collections of wrong indications.
Go ahead and jump out. We’re holding the net. 😉
indieinsanity, I don’t think it is polite to threaten secretfornow like that.
I will DIE before I ever pick up the cans again. I would walk out into traffic. I would step into the jaws of a frothing lion. I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN subject myself to any of it.
EVER.
I went to the top and I almost went insane. It was awful.
……..
um, no thank you.
I’m no longer honest. I will lie through my teeth and pretend. I won’t let them take away my family or livelihood. Someday I may be able to stand in the light, but I won’t let them have anything before I want to give it.
ENOUGH!
I see. 🙂 Well now THAT’s perfectly clear.
I was kust trying to be encouraging IF you wanted to continue the auditing without the ridiculous duress.
Unfortunately, like I said later in this post, most people have only had Misgavology, not Scientology. Unfortunate.
However, having said that, and having had the experience of having an out of comm auditor and sh*t processes run on me late in the game (and wondering what was wrong with me because NONE of it caused any wins) I understand and empathize with your feelings about it.
So congrats that you’re able to be out and not let anyone know. I’m in the same boat. Nobody knows I’m out and they for sure don’t know that I’ve been getting auditing from a real OT VIII/Class 8 for the last 7 years. lol Best auditing I’ve had in a VERY long time. Whew.
And I agree with you. I’m never letting on until or unless I’m outted because I’m not ever going to let them do that to me, no sir. F you DM, and the bottle of Scotch you floated in on.
In the meantime, I’ll just keep planting seeds and helping people get out.
Have a great journey Secret for Now. It’s all in front of you.
thank you for your understanding.
As I’ve always been a poster child for Dedicated Scientologist (staff, trained, OT etc) it helps that I moved away from a close org. I use that as a handy excuse for not being on service. I should move even further. 🙂
I’m glad Flag is so far away. I always hated the Palmetto bugs all over Flag.
(in the old days we used to watch them crawl up the walls while making sentences on course)
I have no beef with anyone who wants to do scn. I just want to be able to speak freely and have the lies and abuses laid bare. Mike and Leah and the others are doing a smashing job. I love all the books that rip the veil away.
So I wish all the best to you too.
That just sucks!
This is one of those key Hubbardisms that you get shown early on in your cult career in order to get you to let your guard down and acquiesce to their entreaties to “try it, you’ll like it”. Once you’ve swallowed the cult bait and become one with the Borg there is no room whatsoever for contradictory opinions, or even questioning cult beliefs…It’s either Elron’s way or the highway.
Fortunately for us all, more and more folks are being inoculated against this killer cult’s bizarre belief system and despicable practices well before they even come through the door and are exposed to this kind of disinformation patter to begin with.
$cn, your space alien ghost ship has already sailed and you’re so far out to sea and taking on water so quickly that even the rats know that they’ll be going down with the ship. Too bad there’s only one ship left in Elron’s faux navy or someone might be there to rescue your lame ass. Instead of arriving on some sort off BT-free Fantasy Island, it’s really nothing but a Cruise of the Damned.
Don’t believe me? Well then, just ask Elron, who went to his grave still trying to free himself from that disowned and dissociated part of his personality that he delusionally imagined was made up of thousands of dead space alien spirits that just wouldn’t leave him alone. Paying tons of money to become as mentally ill as the flounder himself is no way for any human to go through life! You may have been bad, but no one deserves that kind of soul-rape punishment!
I think you’ve identified a profoundly obvious yet mostly unacknowledged truth. Scientologists have spent enormous amounts of money with equal expenditures of effort in order to acquire the exact same depravities as L. Ron Hubbard. They have deceived themselves into thinking he was the gold standard of fulfilled human potential.
Even some who have disavowed the church for its abuses will still cling to his “tech”, particularly to his preposterous Emotional Tone Scale. That hallowed instrument explicitly maps Hubbard’s shocking deficiencies in understanding common human emotions. How big of a red flag does one need when, for instance, the emotion, ‘sympathy’ is placed not only below the emotions, ‘hate’ and ‘terror’ but also below ‘no-sympathy’???!!!
Been there! The EO barely blinked and kept right on going.
“Personal integrity is knowing what you know”.
As a never-in, I may not fully understand the entire concept that LRH is discussing in his “Personal Integrity” lecture that was mentioned in today’s RB, but from an outside perspective, just on the surface, “knowing what you know” sounds much closer to arrogance than integrity in my opinion.
Throughout history, many individuals have convinced themselves that they had discovered the ultimate “truth” about certain things…..and they used these internal convictions to justify some of the worst and unimaginable atrocities ever committed.
I have no problem with the concept of “knowing what you know” to determine your own personal philosophy in life…..as long as that’s balanced with at least a small measure of humility and the concept of “knowing what you don’t know”. When we succumb to the very real temptation of convincing ourselves that we know the truth about anything, and that leads us to no longer seek out more information, then we risk losing what I consider to be one of the most important characteristics we can possess as a sentient human being…..our innate curiosity.
People these days seem to believe that “changing your mind” and admitting that you were wrong (even about insignificant beliefs) is a sign of weakness. I consider it one of the greatest strengths a person can possess (even though I occasionally fail to remember that myself). There is absolutely nothing wrong with “changing your mind”, because there is so much information available that no one person can ever learn it all. All we can do is take the information that we have found and use that information to make an informed decision, and to continue to seek out even more information to challenge our own preconceived notions of what we believe is true.
Many people seem afraid of challenging their own sets of beliefs because they fear it might “change their mind”. Yes, it might change your mind, and that’s ok if it does. But challenging yourself might also lead to an even greater sense of conviction in your current beliefs. Either way, you become more enlightened.
This RB appears to show that the mentality of most current Scientologists is the exact opposite, in that they are taught to believe in the infallibility of someone else (not themselves) and that the words of LRH are sacrosanct. This doesn’t just apply to Scientologists either. Many individuals in various religions (including in the religion of Christianity which is how I identify) believe in the infallibility of their own version of “scripture”. This type of “rock brain” mentality also seems to extend to many other areas of life as well, including politics.
I believe that it’s important for us to be able to admit that we COULD be wrong….about anything. Otherwise, we place ourselves into a mental prison that we ourselves are individually responsible for creating. As for myself, as difficult as this is, I ultimately have to “practice what I preach” and concede that I personally COULD be wrong in everything I’ve said in this comment.
Knowing what you don’t know is indeed part of knowing what you know.
Yep, I know.
So very well said, Mick!
Excellent comment, Mick, and thanks. I have broken my tools on a number of “rock-brained” folks, both in and out of Scientology.
“Knowledge is certainty.” A false idea from Hubbard.
“What is true is what is true for you” unless it ain’t true for Hubbard or Dave or your superior officer or the Ethics Officer. In that case it is “Their way or the highway,” my advice is take the highway out of there as soon as possible.
Anybody who knows me and my politics knows I rarely agree with President Obama about anything. But he gave a great unscripted quote in an interview: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thedudeabides/obama-on-faith-the-exclusive-interview/
“I think that religion at it’s best comes with a big dose of doubt. I’m suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.
I think that, particularly as somebody who’s now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart, there’s an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty.” President Barack Obama
It is harder to know what you don’t know. Good science always comes with error bars on the graphs that estimate the uncertainty. Any time someone says there is no uncertainty they are lying. Good Christians would do well to remember 1 Corinthians 13:8-13. For the rest of you I offer Karl Popper https://www.brainpickings.org/2017/01/26/karl-popper-in-search-of-a-better-world-truth-certainty/ “Knowledge consists in the search for truth… It is not the search for certainty.” Karl Popper
Bruce, I’ve never heard that Karl Popper quote, but it’s great. Thanks for sharing.
Mick, there is no place for humility in Scn. Great comment.
One of the things that I think is so ironic and interesting is that not only can you find justifications for the cruel practices and insane teachings, you can also find *condemnations* of them as well. LRH was ALL OVER THE PLACE in his writing, sometimes talking like a pharmaceutical executive “Dianetimycin will cure your cancer, of course we can’t just give it away”, other times sounding like a paranoid living in a bunker “We have to prepare for the nuclear war launched by reptoids err aliens err psychs. If you doubt this, you are obviously a psych here to contaminate our precious bodily fluids!”, and other times a new age guru like in the RB up above. I don’t think any one aspect can be ignored. (I think there is plenty of evidence that Hubbard wanted to money selling a product he believed in and used himself, but developed a persecution complex and probably clinical paranoia.
The result is a hot mess of doctrine and the perfect stage for Deviant Miscarriage. If the Indies can sort something out of the mess, more power to them, but as it is you can’t accept the whole Hubbard doctrine without contradicting yourself. Also, you have to accept that LRH was driven into despair by his failure to achieve his goals, so the Tech could not work for its Source.
hehe……”Deviant Miscarriage”……………PERFECT!!!!!!
+1! Outstanding post!
This is part of why I simply do not understand Scientology. If the members believe Elron is The Founder and if The Founder’s words are so important that secret, underground bunkers have to be built to preserve them why is it that those same writings are not being followed? As a Never-In, from what I have been reading, from this blog and from Leah’s show, I do not understand how anyone who is forced to study LRH’s writings ad nauseum will then be able to justify or reconcile the actions of the Organization which seem so incredibly far from the words. On the other hand maybe this is exactly the dichotomy that IS Scientology and that was LRH. He wrote of wanting to help people, of wanting to “Clear” people of all the negative in their lives while at the same time he was a pathological liar, a bigot and a violent, unstable man. Those same traits seem to sum up, for me, Scientology (and DM). Now that I think of it, perhaps Scientology is not as far off from it’s Founder as I first believed.
It’s no different than the people who re “all in” for our new POTUS and can see no wrongness in him despite all the obvious things many people can see about him.
Which are similar thoughts I have about those who were “all in” for the the big loser who still, apparently, can see no wrongness in her, including her criminal activities which were publicly revealed.. You can’t have it both ways, Valkov. 🙂
azhlynne, the answer lies with the fact that you CANNOT follow the writings without violating the writings. For every rule that says to do “A”. There is a rule saying to NOT do “A”. Or, to do “B” instead of “A”.
Sounds like double speak? That we observed what we observed and say what we’ve observed and take care to observe what we observe.
Like personal integrity is knowing what you know and saying what you know about what you know….?
The amount of times I read an LRH bulletin or policy that sounded like double speak is amazing. I would often read a sentence or paragraph(s) over and over trying to make sense out of it, finally determining that I just wasn’t intelligent enough to understand this enlightened being. Either that or I would just start to nod off. Heck, there were engineers, doctors and so many other professionals that understand his crap – my lack of education has to be the problem…bull.
Many of DM’s speeches have the same gobbledygook flavor.
In DMs case, “many” equals “all”. 🙂
That’s where a dictionaty comes in handy. “observe” has 3 disticnt definitions in English, and Hubbard used each one successively in that sentence. It’s a play on the word.
Barbet, double speak is the language the cult uses. They’re favorite book has to be 1984.
Thank you RB for another engaging dialogue on the contradictions within scientology. On one hand the scientologist is told to observe and speak freely what they have observed. On the other hand they are told to not spread or engage with “entheta”. That rules out confronting it.
The church brutally enforces the avoiding of entheta which means it enforces the scientologist to be the ‘effect’ of it rather than being ‘at cause’ over it! Need I point out that is a violation of the Tenant Supreme? To be AT CAUSE!
Run away from declared SP’s, run away from websites, run away from enturbulation, run run run. Yes, the cowardly little weaklings with shit for brains are showing us how scientology is mankind’s last and only hope. (Of course that was never anything but an effective sales gimmick.)
Roger: “On one hand the scientologist is told to observe and speak freely what they have observed. On the other hand they are told to not spread or engage with ‘entheta’.”
The church says to not spread or engage with entheta, but I don’t know of anywhere LRH ever said that, other than specifically in relation to engaging with declared “SPs” (both individuals and groups). Do you?
p.s. I can’t think of any reference for not “spreading” entheta, either.
Just curious if you or anyone knows of any.
There are plenty of references to this.
I dont have time to look them up, so I will give you some good old fashioned “verbal tech” – just quickly off the top of my head:
The Anti-social Personality only passes on bad news/entheta
There is even a Hubbard term used to describe this: “Glutz PR” and “spreading the flap” in the PR Series
“Crimes” of spreading bad news or rumors about “senior scientologists”
Science of Survival about “handling truth”
Thanks, Mike. I thought about the Anti-social Personality bulletin, but it’s more of a description of what SP’s do than what members are forbidden to do. Same for Science of Survival, which gives a description of how the different tone levels handle truth.
However, what you said about ‘crimes’ of spreading bad news or rumors about ‘senior scientologists'” is probably what the church uses to stop members from telling others what they heard on the news, etc.
Hey, if you’re a scientologist, you don’t want to be labelled an SP. So you don’t want to be accused of SP traits — like passing on bad news.
To claim this is NOT a proscription against forbidding actions is a level or literalness and hair-splitting that is hard to fathom.
But Scientologists pass on bad news of all kinds – and I think they would do so with bad news about the church if they weren’t threatened with dire consequences.
WHat’s your point?
Are you agreeing or disagreeing that this is a policy that dictates not to pass on bad news? Now you seem to be saying the practice is not allowed and is enforced? Which is what I said in the first place?
I don’t know why you have to get yourself so tied in knots trying to defend the indefensible….
What I don’t really see is any reference that says to avoid entheta such as reading a news story or watching a program that is negative about Scientology. Back when there was all the news about the GO, for example, I don’t think Scientologists were told not to read any of it. It was at some point later that this changed (but correct me if I’m wrong).
I do agree with you about the reference for not *passing on* bad news or rumors about “senior scientologists.” That answered my question.
You see what you want to see…
Mike, I’ll add another verbal reference. The reference on NON-ENTURBULATION orders from LRH. Violation one by spreading entheta results in an SP Declare per LRH
I love it when you tell it like it is using Hubbard’s own nonsense.
…and “forwarding the enemy line”.
marildi, you may relax. I am not, on the occasion of this particular comment, making an overt dig at the lying sociopath and not-ready-for-primetime philosopher, Ron Hubbard. My dig is aimed at the members. They have been successfully steered away from the highest principle of scientology (being at cause, NOT at effect) onto the path of ‘total effect’ by having the fear of entheta instilled in them. AND THEY DON’T EVEN SEE IT!
How could adults of at least average intelligence be so reduced? You may be happy to know that I don’t blame Mr. Hubbard. Not so much, anyway. But nor do I blame Adolph Hitler for what the Nazi’s did. Not so much, anyway.
“My dig is aimed at the members. They have been successfully steered away from the highest principle of scientology (being at cause, NOT at effect) onto the path of ‘total effect’ by having the fear of entheta instilled in them. AND THEY DON’T EVEN SEE IT!”
Got it.
Marildi – To me the obvious distinction is between “entheta” as malicious lies (for example), and observation of, and talk about, true outpoints. The “alleged” absence of the OEC volumes from Co$ course rooms is, for example, an obvious outpoint, and talking about it is not “entheta” at all. More like “theta”, including finding out who had them removed, who complied with those orders, when, and why (plus other tech for rectifying glaring outpoints). Anyone who says they are totally free from all entheta at all times is either delusional or not telling the truth. The majority, most of the time, are very theta, even if it’s just chatter about white sales or painting boat hulls, but it doesn’t take much to get most people to have momentarily hurt feelings and start trading insults. Conceiving of and drawing up a scale of severity of entheta would be interesting, and is probably already done in the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation. E.g. “I didn’t steal any cookies [lie]!” is obviously not on the same scale of damage as “All White Hats steal money and subvert families, so they must be killed” broadcast over news outlets. Degrees of enturbulation vary widely in intensity and in duration, so one gets PTS, PTS Type II, PTS Type III, and SP.
Just trying to contribute to the topic, here. My quest, my Mission, is to find even one perfectly sane being, anywhere. So far, no luck. The genius of Scientology was to put all this together with everything else and relate all the parts, but Hubbard was absolutely nuts to publish it all and start a church!
Good point about entheta. Here’s a definition from the tech dictionary:
“means enturbulated theta (thought or life); especially refers to communications, which, based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group. (Scn AD)”
By that definition, news or any communication about the church should not be prohibited if it isn’t “based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group.” Thus, they would have to determine what it was based on in order to determine if it were entheta. Obviously, the church doesn’t allow that.
In the mind of a scientologist, EVERYTHING that is not in full agreement with scientology is based on lies and confusions and intended to suppress…. That is the nature of the beast.
Marildi –
A common example, widely accepted in the normal social world occurred to me.
An imbalance of evaluation can be entheta, if it serves no purpose. For example, Bob is a good guy, but drinks a bit. If he has been drinking a bit at a party and is about to drive someone home, mentioning that “He drinks a bit” has a useful purpose. By contrast, introducing Bob to someone at work – Bob is a good guy, remember – then mentioning behind his back, “He drinks a bit” is, to me, entheta. The reason it’s entheta is that there were many different virtues which could have been mentioned, such as “He quarter-backed a winning team for three years”, or “He has two Labrador puppies”, or “He’s one of our good guys”, yet those were not mentioned. Most people will notice these or similar discrepancies, will notice the “cognitive dissonance”, and won’t pass it off as “critical thinking”. The social world tends to be pretty forgiving, but one always wonders, I guess, what that person might be saying about them.
(This isn’t necessarily sequitur to anything in particular here, just an observation that popped up.)
I really like these examples of handling of truths as regards what would constitute theta and entheta that you’ve furnished here, Nickname.
Why, thank you Aqua. Your example below is better (imho, of course, wouldn’t want to evaluate, hehe).
The value of theta communication. Maybe 15,000 years ago in pre-Ancient Egypt, one guy said to another, “Look at that locust riding on that leaf on that river.” The other says, “Hey! I just had an idea!” (And today we have Yue-Kong Pao – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue-Kong_Pao ). Actually, “2001: A Space Odyssey” is still my fav, with the chimp scene, but whatever. Each of us has the capability for it all to be wonderful.
I was involved with a mission in the 70s which had none of Hubbard’s books on display, had no org board in view. They did not have any “green” volumes available, either. The mission holder kept only one policy available to the staff and public: “We always deliver what we promise.” Seemed to work very well. And might be of great value in running any business, as well. 🙂 Seems to have been dropped out of scio entirely nowadays…and for many decades past.
marilidi, this may bolster Roger’s point more than answer your question, but to begin with, the third definition of entheta in my old (not sure of the date) tech dictionary, includes anger, which might be something that someone would want to speak about after having observed something:
3 . anger, sarcasm, despair, slyly destructive suggestions. (HTLTAE, p. 88)
I have seen that used to shut down and invalidate upsets people had with things done wrong by staff or by the organization.
One of the other definitions referred to Science of Survival, which has this gem:
“While it may be true that something is destructive or that a person is bad, if it serves no purpose to make the statement, the issuance of this “truth” is in reality the establishing of an entheta line.”
While it contains some qualification, I think that itself warns people against telling any controversial truths that could be interpreted as entheta.
Peacemaker, I definitely agree that this datum could and does warn people (Scientologists) against telling any controversial truths.
On the other hand, lets say you have a good friend who has an autistic child – and at a party you introduce your friend to others you know and she doesn’t like this: “Everyone, I’d like you to meet my dear friend, Sharon, whose 24 year old daughter still lives at home with a full time nurse because the girl is severely and incurably autistic”.
Now, I would consider that bit of truth telling in such a situation to be the establishment of an entheta line. I grant you its an extreme example.
In social situations, in many relationship situations, one can be honest, maintain ones integrity while at the same time be actively practicing tactful reserve.
Certainly, in courts of law it is imperative that one be obligated to tell “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”, but where else do we habitually do this?
Theta vs entheta. Good manners vs bad manners. If we can refer to an “entheta line” may we also refer to a “bad manners line”?
I think the theta/entheta concept is booby trapped. It wants to make bad manners into a crime, an insult into a declaration of war. It mainly serves to impose seriousness where seriousness ought not be allowed to take root. Better, I think, to speak in terms of what is appropriate for the situation and what is not appropriate for the situation. And never forget the power of humor.
Love it…”Tenant Supreme”! That would be the Ghost of Elron, who’s taken up permanent residence in the mind of every true believer $cilon.
There may not be any implanting stations on Mars or Venus, but there sure are here on earth, where every single $cn org was designed to implant you with the lies, delusions and nonsense that the flounder himself purposefully designed in order to enslave whoever walks through its doors.
I got your “Cause” right here, Elron…now, bugger off and plague us no more with your malevolent idiocy!
RB certainly hits home with his weekly cartoons. This one especially reminds me of what happened with my youngest son, Craig. Lois and I were in the process of being “handled” at AOLA so that I would not be declared and lose Craig. One night we were having a family get together, with all 3 sons. I had drank a few cans of courage and cornered Craig and asked him that if things went south in our “handling” and we got declared, would he disconnect from us? His response was that he would NEVER disconnect from us. He was quite emphatic about that. I then happily mentioned his response to the other 2 boys.
Fast forward 2 years or so later and it has been 706 days since we last spoke with him.
All Scientologists should demonstrate with paper-clips, bottle tops and marbles “personal integrity” or even better make little, disfigured men out of clay and stick stupid pieces of paper labels on them as it would seem that personal integrity doesn’t exist any longer amongst the chosen.
Clearly Pissed Off??? Yep.
Jeez. Being told that he would never disconnect from you and having the confidence that your family will be held together despite what this “church” unilaterally decided to “declare”…..going from that to actually having one of them disconnect from you has to be a total mind bender. Can the church not just show appreciation for all that the former members had done for them (in time, money, dedication, etc.)?
No wonder you’re “clearly pissed off”……and you have every right to be.
It shows the level of their brainwashing and undue influence they project onto their sheep. Going from a from-the-heart declaration of never disconnecting from us, to moving twice just to make sure we do not know where he is living is a definite mind binder.
The cherch doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all the time, dedication, blah blah. If you’re in, you gotta just keep ponying up the bucks. And STFU and don’t make waves.
Wow, this is awful and scary too.
You actually had the conversation and he was probably fully honest and confident of his answer.
I would venture to guess that he was later “handled” to see that disconnecting was the kindest thing, that it was the path to helping you and your wife to coming to your senses and you getting back onto the road to salvation.
And…
that regardless, it was HIS eternity at stake and this family is just a current construct and a blip on his time track, blah blah blah.
Every day I’m stunned at the depth of my own brainwashing.
I ache with you and your family.
<3
This is not a unique circumstance for sure.
I can commiserate with you , CPO. Same thing happened to me.
Brilliant!
What strikes me as interesting today is that, according to Hubbard, “honor,” “truth,” and “nobility” are esoteric terms. I think he needs to word clear “esoteric.” What’s really going on here has to do with an Ethics officer telling you to grok the difference between “having the courage to know and say what you observed” and “spreading entheta.” Hubbard wants to take everyday words that you perfectly understand the meaning of already, and tell you that you don’t know what they mean. Redefinition of language is a core tool of all cult systems. Honor, truth, nobility, courage, integrity are well ingrained ideas, and they evoke a emotional response. Scientology redefines those terms to suit their own ends, but takes advantage of the positive emotions that we associate with what we already knew them to mean. The dictionary is a prop. You are not expected to read the definition. You are expected to hypnotize yourself into agreeing with your handler by reading the dictionary.
“The dictionary is a prop. You are not expected to read the definition. You are expected to hypnotize yourself into agreeing with your handler by reading the dictionary.” —- Never being a person who was in this group, this helps make more sense. Every time I have seen people talk about being sent to the dictionary I always think, why don’t they come back and show them how little sense it makes based on what’s in the dictionary?!?!
It seems like they like to confuse people into accepting and following (who wants to be the stupid one that doesn’t get it). So there go all the sheep following the Wolf dressed as a shepherd, feeding them lamb chops and telling them it’s Fish. LIES!
The juxtaposition between the reality of Hubbard’s life as a truly deplorable pathological liar and malignant narcissist that sought to enslave men and seduce women is jarring to Scientologists and exes. His plagiarized ideas on morality and ethics are used to rope in the cult members.
He talked the talk of a compassionate visionary. So those ideas seem great. They’re just the false promises a predator uses to lure their prey in the seduction phase of a relationship. This is meant to win your trust and unending faith. With that established the abuse and eventual discard phases of the relationship can be moved toward.
Also, if the victim has become vulnerable or dependent the abuse can begin in earnest.
But the nice social relationship supporting doctrine is used to establish the trust and to reinforce it when the relationship is begun.
Hubbard just acted like you matter, your opinion matters and honesty matters so he could twist you away from all those things and have you be sure he wasn’t doing exactly what he actually was. And never listen to anyone that tries to warn you.
Reginald, I find your comment to be very insightful for a never-in into the techniques that were employed by LRH to lure people into this philosophy that, on its surface, had to seem so full of promise. These techniques also seem as if they would apply to other initially charismatic, yet ultimately abusive, leaders of various groups.
THIS!!!
I love how RB nails how LRH and Scientology’s “Hubbard’s Law of Commotion” really works.
Here is Hubbard’s Law of Commotion:
HUBBARD’S LAW OF COMMOTION: For each and every policy or piece of tech, there is an equal and opposite policy and piece of tech.
Yes, I believe in this case they would apply ‘the SP hides behind policy and uses it to enturbulate others’ or something of the sort. I do remember asking about these contradictions and was told it is to do with issue date, of course they are pretty screwed as no one is allowed to change or alter any original policy (miscavige of course is exempt from this rule and changes things to suit his own agenda).
When the rubber meats the road. Or, when reality meats scamology. Worlds collide!
You threw out perfectly good meat! Was it a tri tip? Is it still there? Man, I have a great bottle of Chianti that would have been perfect with that meat you threw out.
Regraded Being is always a bit uncomfortable to read and that is probably a good thing because it deals in uncomfortable truths and realities! After reading the biography on LRH, it is quite obvious that LRH had no integrity or honor, ever. LRH could not even tell the truth about himself and his own personal history. He was a pathological liar and hypocrite and that colours everything he said and did! I always had my eyes wide shut while in the organisation!
You have reached a very logical observation Eh+Eh. Hubbard, if one looks at him from a technical aspect certainly required to do his own Bridge and ethical procedures. He’s a failed or non existent Grade 0 for a start and ARCSW would be worthy of checking out too. Almost any repair list prefixed with “Concerning KSW would seem a good place to start and then followed up by sec checks with what is found. With all the self auditing he did he never spotted the fact he required the most basic of stuff concerning his own life – honesty with his Dynamics!
It’s like he looked at his own behavior and mental processes, reversed it and came up with the subject of Scientology.
It’s hard to understand how that happened exactly…