hello everyone.i am a never in who has been following scientology for a few yers now.i find it fascinating how people can fall for that kind of scam.i do see however how it could happen to anyone.still its interesting to see how everyone progresses in a blog like this one,if only you spend some time and observe.theres people commenting from the whole range of the spectrum in here.people that just left the organisation(its definately not a church and i wouldnt even call it a cult either) all the way to people who have been out for years.
its very interesting. those that came out recently still follow the habits and “beliefs” of scientology so to speak.most of the times they can still swear that scietology works.then u move to people who have been out for a while.they see things more clearly and they can spot the bs easier.they can even tell you whats wrong with scientology.but at the same time that also implies that if those things werent happening,things would be so much better in the organisation.they can see the lies they have been fed,but their minds are not completely “free” yet.
then its those people with more time since coming out.they start to realise that hubbard was just an evil con man and as such, its probable that scientology is exactly what he intended it to be.they can get a glimpse of the idea but theyre not exactly there yet.
then theres those who are really free.their attitude is that theres nothing good about scientology.hubbard was a loser,a liar and a conman and he got what he deserved in the end.
and thats the truth folks.thats what scientology is.a sosciopath created a sosciopathic organization and people fell in the trap.he was lucky too,cause the period he lived in really helped him to set up the whole scam.
i just find it amazing that so much money is wasted on that organization,when they could be used for so so much more….from helping kids starving in africa,to helping homeless people in your town.its really sad to see that.especialy when you live in a country where unemployment is around 30%(if not more)…
as for my opinion of hubbard,i think the guy was evil.and i mean it in every sense of the word.
he was following the occult,he was a narcissist and a megalomaniac and thought he deserved to own the world.at the same time he was an abuser and wifebeater(the real one ha-ha…) a pathological liar,and in the end,he lied so much that he believed his own lies.he created an evil world for others to fall in and follow him so he could take advantage of them,and in the end he got consumed by that same evil world himself.
anyway,i hope you all recover quickly from your unfortunate experience and reconnect with loved ones.
i have some thoughts on that too(disconnection),but maybe next time.just wanted to say hi for now.lol
Yay! for anyone who stands up to the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientolopgy. The bars of the prison are (largely) inside your heads, folks!
Faaantastic !!! That is the finest, bestest yet of all the RB’s I’ve read. Just tell those bastards where to get the fuck off ! Very Well Done, RB. Thank you for the F/N.
Some religions are smart enough to encourage reproduction (and event prohibit contraception) because they will then increase the number of adherents geometrically over time.
Only Scientology has the level of hypocrisy to say abortions are fine when its founder decried abortions and to be stupid enough to discourage the natural population growth of Scientologists via families.
Scientology, the Homer Simpson “Doh!” (or “Dough!”) religion, appropriately spoken for by the voice of Bart Simpson.
I had 3 children while in the SO even though there were orders against it issued prior to the last one I know of in late 84 or early 85. I found 4 concerning this in my files and then the last 3 FOs by ED Int late 96 but by then I’d been kicked out and my petition to ED Int was denied 3 months after the request and demanded I follow the FOs written 3 months after I’d left. By then I could not past the required Fitness Board per the new FOs since I had no choice but run up credit card debt getting an apartment, vehicle and equipment to start a business after being kicked out. It was a very suppressive situation for me with my husband and 4 children in the SO. And yes, Joe as you say, the suppression did and does come from the management level and the persons remaining that have so compromised their integrity as to leave their loved ones on insistence from executives and management. I will likely never forgive my husband for remaining and leaving me with the burden of supporting 4 children in a world I’d never operated in alone. But he likely will never apologies.
All my children are out of the SO now and only 2 will not communicate so I for sure am not the one with regrets – if any it’s that I stayed about 6 years past when I knew I should leave – 1990. Each one of those remaining have to sort this out for themselves or not – depending on how much, like LRH would say, each want to survive. It can’t possibly be comfortable for any of them there unless they just wanted free room and board.
I know of one woman who was once soooo GungHo SO, who after a brief stint in is now out of the SO with 2 kids.
I know of a former Class V org female staff member who, after 20 years on staff, had 2 more children in rapid succession and moved with her husband and kids to a remote and very large state where there is NO Scientology. The nearest Scientology org to them is 500 miles away.
My opinion, based solely on my very limited anecdotal observations, is that pregnancy is now THE path OUT for married female staff and SO.
I think the cult is scared to press couples too hard to abort now.
The cherch needs to bite the bullet: One cannot place a huge, PARTIAL suppression on the 2nd dynamic (marriage is OK, marital sex is OK, but children are forbidden). This is insane and inane.
Bite the bullet, cult!
Either mandate that all SO remain single and celibate, NO sex, NO 2d, OR allow them to marry and have children.
That seems to be the case. I know of another couple that got pregnant and routed out recently. It takes the whistle blowers to stop the abuses. Thank you Laura DeCrescenzo.
“All those women that had abortions did so by their own choice. In point of fact, COB was totally okay with whatever decision these gals made, notwithstanding the fact that he had to take valuable time from his already busy schedule to address these issues. I hope this clears the matter up once and for all. There’s way too much cob-bashing going on and frankly, he’s got better things to do than stoop to the level of several of the commenters on this blog.” – Former Ex-Spokesperson
Yea! I cheered out loud when I read that last frame. Yes! That is how it should be and could be if beings come to their senses and look and go with their gut feeling of what is right. You don’t need someone else telling you what is right from their hidden agenda point of view! Way to go Regraded Being! As an aside here, my daughter and son were on staff at LA Org before 200 SO came to take it over to show them how it’s done. But earlier than that, her contract was coming to be over in about 4 or 5 months. The Org terminals started working on her 5 or 6 months in advance to make sure she re-signed. She told me, her boyfriend, her brother, her other family and friends that she would NOT re-sign her contract. I told her that I supported her in that decision. But then the LA Org HCO did exactly what RB said in his cartoon: they worked on her and showed her hand picked references that they could quote out of context some and others not, and said how she was one of the few even capable of confronting the mess the planet is in and that if she didn’t do it, then who? No one else was up to it. I was disappointed and told her she should let them change her mind. She said they didn’t: they just gave her references to read and she changed it. This hit close to home. She re-signed and then later joined the SO. Sigh.
THank you for your postulate,Gadfly. Please include my son in it too. Both kids disconnected from me for nothing more than reading the blogs. Of course HCO had to make up stuff in the Declare Order to make it sound justified, but that is now the standard operating procedure. I hope I get both my kids back soon.
Cindy, that story is so heartbreaking. The illusion of self-determinism is one of their most effective tools of manipulation. I am sure that they would just as forcefully disallow their target of manipulation from discussing the meaning and relevance of the referenced quotes with any other parties.
Cindy, I’m postulating that that beautiful daughter of yours gets married and pregnant and decides to keep the baby and has to leave the SO. Of course, the best thing would be if she simply cognited and left but I’m being realistic. I think people who join the SO actually DO have a strong desire to help humanity, and that help button of theirs can be utilized to manipulate them into staying in, BUT when a woman becomes pregnant, there is that new life in her body – beautiful new life that SHE co-created, that is within her, trusting her, utterly dependent upon her, and as such, pressing her Help button in a way that excludes all other demands for her help. If this were not the rule with women then the human race would have died out long ago.
Thank you, Aquamarine and HGC10. I appreciate the postulates. It’s interesting how the church stacks the deck their way always. They get to work on the people to re-sign but if you offer up anything on the other side, you are labeled “C.I” or “S.P.” My daughter’s boyfriend at the time didn’t want her to re-sign because he wanted to marry her and travel the world and she couldn’t do that as a staff member. And he wanted to have kids after eventually and he said he didn’t want his wife on staff and thus unable to raise the kids. He wanted the kids to have a mother and know their mother and that wouldn’t be possible if she was on staff. For voicing these opinions, he was censured, had to have a session with HCO, and my daughter, convinced by them that he was CI and possibly even SP for having those views, was convinced she had to disconnect from him, and so she agreed, labeled him “bad” and broke up from the man she loved. It’s sick.
Hey Cindy. I assume this happened recently? And she WANTED not to re-sign? So they pulled her in and showed her some quotes or whatever, out of context, of course, to persuade her to stay? And they verbally and psychologically beat her into submission? I can smell the stink of that cult from here. I’m so sorry, honey! Your daughter is missing out on one fantastic Mom!
Cindy, that happened to other young people who were public staff at LA Org when the takeover happened. They got worked on and ended up joining the SO. This gross manipulation of people occurs on so many levels in the CoS, whether it’s having an abortion, joining staff, signing a SO contract, donating to Ideal Orgs, Super Power, IAS, TWTH, etc., recruiting minors into the SO, and Disconnection. It’s just an evil of the church. You sound like a great Mom and wise lady. I hope things work out for your family soon.
Thanks, Hennessy. And what young kid wouldn’t respond well to the “You’re such a Big Being” close? Instead of hearing, “Please pick up your socks and clean your room and be back by midnight,” The are told they are Big Beings, Generals of entire armies on the whole track…” They stroke the kids with love bombs and build up their egos and tell them age is just an arbitrary … and so they become like the Joan of Arc who will single handedly clear the planet and that we need you to just sign right here. Here’s the pen…
Nothing like the ‘mirror effect,’ I call it.
When feeling or being intimidated just do back exactly what another is doing to you and watch the sparks fly.
The fake, blinded determinism shown by scios, especially the SO is so out of wack with their results they can only be minimally be branded as idiots, insane is more apt term. To seriously listen to, let alone act on what a scio says you should do is to join their ranks, such is the contagion of aberration. Keep well away from corporate scientologists is the best advice one could ever give or take.
Nice one (once again) RB.
I think the Scientology Organization mocked up a reactive mind when it mocked up the Guardian’s Office. O.S.A. responds to stimuli. With the press releases now, it’s all reaction. But I always felt the M.A.A. was the little OSA rep in every Org. They react only to perceived threats. Miscavige turned most of the women at the Int Base into serial killers claiming to save mankind. That is how twisted it got.
I agree. It’s become what it preaches against. Instead of getting rid of “case” or the “reactive mind,” the church of scientology has become a living, breathing demonstration of stimulus-response and most of its remaining staff and parishioners are like little receptors that have been put in place to protect the survival of the host. They don’t even realize that there is no host. It’s a facade, a mock-up of david miscavige’s imagination that grew out of the head of LRonHubbard.
Did you ever think about the fact that every time a P.C. knocks out an auditor’s T.R.’s, that P.C. is sent to ethics right away? When the auditor gets keyed in, the P.C. gets sent to ethics. Whatever a person has done that pushes a button for the Church, they end up in ethics about it. When the Church can not face something, (reacts), it calls in ethics or O.S.A.. It is the reactive mind of the organization, machinery put in place to deal with things people just can not confront. If everybody’s TR’s were really in, why would you need that kind of machinery? Paulette Cooper bull baited the church, and it’s tr’s were out. The OSAstaff are in the identity of a reactive mind.
It was like that after 1982 with the introduction of political confessional policies. What the PC was saying in session became actionable. Which is the worst form of Q&A, auditor code break and is completely suppressive. I couldn’t believe it. It was negation of tech. Then a PC could be sent to ethics if he was “too key in”. PC had to behave at this point. This idea was already instilled by GO who had to spot possible “type 3” on lines which might cause trouble (they had actual troubles with PC going occasionnaly insane, it was a real issu but it became a full paranoia and they started to stop people for their cases).
But in the 1970, I was trained as an auditor to have a real TR0, to confront anything from the PC (I had a PC who tried to hit me with the bottle on Op pro by dup !, PC didn’t go to ethics, but I had to do some Tr9 !). At this time the policy was Processing, “what turn it on wil turn it off”.
Hubbard in 1975 had a simple PGM : to make 100 000 class IV. And it was real. There were an awful lot of people on the academy.
At this time scientology was of help (not going to save people from hurricane !) I remember many PCs in the early 1970 arriving with a terrible mental condition. Really sad, distressed, in real need of help. And they were audited intensively. One PC, he couldn’t eat. The auditor was feeding him with baby food. And gradually the PC went back to life.
Myself, I remember having audited a woman on life repair. She was feeling her life was a mess. She was so ARCX with life. I audited that, very simple PGM of ruds and two way comm. And one morning she said that she felt again some joy and had hope in the future.
Just Oracle to remember the other side of scientology, the reason we stayed so long, hoping things would go better.
But the monster is on the house for more than 30 years. And scientology is no longer scientology.
But, I tell you a story, it was around 2000. A friend a mine had cancer. He did everything, but he was going down. He was very weak, in a state where we could fear he died anytime.
I spoke to a D of P of an AO knowing very well my friend would be an illegal PC (but he was on not’s level). And the D of P said “bring him in”. I was amazed, but I said to my friend “let’s go. why not see ?”
Dying people like having reason to jump off the bed! He went.
Had an interview. D of P said “we put him under the heading of emergency assist, then no eligibility, ethics clearance and all that shit”.
And he was given Not’s auditing. God, he was so much yawning between sessions. But color were back on his face. After no more than one week my friend was not only up tone but really look healthy, was on a stable win and was sent back home. He did some medical exam : the cancer was gone! Yes it was gone!
The guy is still alive and in good health. He disconnected from me when I left the church, he said “they saved my life, I cannot reject them”.
I wanted to remind you why we believed on this subject.
Hope COB will one day be thrown through the window and scientology will go back to full life.
P.S. And half of the “dirt” they have on people is dub in!
It came up in one of my sessions that my boyfriend had a taken a photo of me in the nude. It wasn’t even a frontal shot! I was routed to ethics and asked to sign an affidavit attesting that I had dabbled in “Pornography”!!!
I said, “Are you fkn CRAZY??? I’m not signing that. It’s not true.” “O.K.”, says the M.A.A.,, right there at Flag, and he slides it into the trash can. What the hell?? I requested a change of auditor. No more problems.
They did this to a LOT of people, trying to get them to think or admit they had done things that never happened because of the way THEY view things from their CASE. The worst story I heard was what they did to Tony Dephillips. What a nightmare! It is a miracle he didn’t hang himself off the causeway!
Once I had an auditor argue with me for over half an hour (on my session dime), that I had been involved in an out 2d, because I kissed someone in a parking lot, (I was not a staff member at the time) , while I was separated, but not yet divorced.
Speed of particle flow does not EQUAL POWER ON THE SECOND DYNAMIC TO THOSE PEOPLE!
The G.O. (and OSA from that) were an outgrowth of HCO (see HCO Manual of Justice) and was 100% Hubbard paranoia. “Scientology Orgs” didn’t want it. It was foisted off on them by a paranoid sociopath.
+100 thought would just share though that I prefer to use the term psychopath. Psychopaths in fact prefer the terms sociopath or antisocial personality disorder – it sounds better. Loaded language. Let’s call them what they are psychopaths for whom paranoia is normal and there is no cure. They are just less evolved than humans. Think crocodile brains.
Oracle you stated: Quote: “Miscavige turned most of the women at the Int Base into serial killers claiming to save mankind.”… This is an extremely offensive thing to say. Once again you lack the judgement to make reasoned, productive comments. This is a very hurtful comment and insult to women who already feel the pain of being coerced into a very traumatic life-altering situation and live with this every day. To refer to these women as “serial killers” shows you lack an ordinary amount of empathy. I don’t know what’s in your dark mind but it often spills out in unpleasant ways in your comments. Compassion? Understanding? Empathy? Foreign words to you. Please stop.
Nope. You can claim you are 6 feet tall, but if you are actually 5 feet 2, it shows. You can say you don’t look a day over 21, but if you are actually 80 years old, people can see it, and you are only fooling yourself. You are not widely known for showing an abundance of empathy, love and compassion. But hey, whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
What makes me feel good about myself is being mathematically inclined. Figuring out the math. We all do not do math the same way or come to the same conclusions in an equation.
First, I have no idea who or what you are so you need to know nothing I wrote was directed at you personally. I have no way of knowing what your items are, or are not.
Secondly, I have no purpose or reasons to force items on you that are not yours.
Then, I have no obligation to accept items forced upon me, that are not mine. “No compassion, no understanding” are not my items.
“Kill”, is not your item. I got it.
The reason I mentioned this at all, was to point out the insanity and cruelty, of luring women into a group claiming “enlightenment” and “salvation”, and to enforce an item like “kill” on them. That is mentally twisting someone. That is harming people. That is harming women and children. When the Church of Scientology enforces these items and purposes on women. And that is exactly what has happened.
This particular activity and event may have nothing to with you. And I am not asserting that it does. I have no intention of enforcing this item on anyone. If it’s not your item, the shoe doesn’t fit. We are not on the same page. But we can both be right.
Oracle, I see what you are saying, I understand your point. There’s no need to discuss it further (unless you feel that you want to). All is well, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s been put to rest. No worries mayte! 🙂 – T.J.
I also do not think it behooves anyone, to cover up or minimize the domestic abuse put upon women and children in that organization. I would certainly not “keep on a lid on it” to avoid stepping on someone’s toes, that other women would stumble blindly into that kind of group or situation.
It infuriates me the way women and children have been handled in that culture. I have described it as a misogenic culture on many occasions.
I do not target the women of rape, as the predators. And I do not target the women that have been abused in any domestic situation.
To minimize the abuse put upon women under the charge of David Miscavige, is not doing anywhere a service.
I speak up about these things so others can be informed and not get set up for the same kind of losses. I think we owe this to one another.
It was certainly not my intention to upset another woman. But to point out the extent of the domestic abuse they are expected to endure, to “serve” David Miscavige.
The human sacrifice and collateral damage involved with making one “OT”, is a glaring outpoint. The entire activity is in the tone level of sacrifice. That is not “leading”. It is ethnic cleansing.
T.J. again…. actually, on second thought, I rescind my comment to Oracle. I am not anyone’s moral police, or conscience. When one posts on a public blog, one runs the risk of reading things that are not always pleasant. That’s the nature of a public blog such as this one, that allows free speech, and I’m grateful that Mike Rinder allows opposing views to be expressed here with little censorship (I’ve experienced none, personally). So, Oracle can continue to say whatever he or she wants, and my option is to either not read his/her comments here, or to go elsewhere if it’s too upsetting for me to read this forum. My post was a gut-reaction spur of the moment reply to a comment that I found appalling, and hurtful to those women who had been coerced into a decision they may regret, it was based on having empathy for them and respect for their feelings, but as I said, I am not anyone’s moral police or responsible for someone else’s conscience. So, nevermind, disregard me, and carry on with debate, conversation, and even name-calling if some desire… so, from my heart, wishing all here the best, and sending love and light to everyone (as inspired by Ann B, who often does just that here) Peace. – T.J.
Well T.J., I am not the moral police either. But as someone that was coerced to have an abortion myself, not by the Church, but, by a thug anyway, I had to own that.
I have every right to keep it real, say it as it really is, describe it for it was and is, with out getting slapped around myself about it.
I am not speaking as a person “without understanding or empathy” as you choose to judge me. I am not speaking as a person assuming “moral authority”. I mention it as a person that was also bullied with out options.
So please curb the attacks. You don’t know me and why I own this item and point it out to others for what it is.
I agree 100%. Women who have abortions are not ‘serial killers’ and to say so is disgusting and ignorant. In the Oracle’s world view Claire Headley and Laura DeCrescenzo aren’t heroes, but serial killers. Nice.
No one should ever be “forced” to have an abortion, but abortion is many times the most compassionate option. The world would be a much better place if every baby born was truly wanted and prepared for – instead of an accident foisted upon unwilling and unready women.
I don’t think it is disgusting and ignorant. I own and admit what I did. I just did not do it over and over and over. I am not ignorant. I did it myself. And I had to face up to what I did, and I did that honestly.
You are the one laying out names here for people to be judged.
Listen, it is what it is. And these women at the Int base that are “International executives” and “Holy” and “squeaky clean”. They are not.
The thing about me is, I admit and own what I have been and done.
And therefore I know I know what others have done and are doing too. I am not going to shove that under rug. People do very unusual things under stress and lack of options. That women are driven to this is testimony to the every day despair they embrace in the Church of Scientology.
Sunny is not exposing any sister here. The two women mentioned in her post went public with their abortion experience for a reason. They wanted to expose the abortion coercion practice in the church. Claire and Lauren did a great job and have helped other women by going public. Sunny did not victimize them; she validated their life experience, and I believe that if they were to read her post, they would understand her intention.
I really don’t think it was necessary to start a name list under the topic of serial killer. The point I was making was how women get twisted maligned and degraded in that atmosphere .
I see the point you were making, The Oracle. Abortion is an emotional topic. Take care.
The Oraclesays
And the fact that you are dragging sisters out on this blog and fair gaming them,and trying to shift that on to me? That is straight up wrong. Injustice. I see it. It does not matter to me if others do not.
I will say this, someone had to physically face beat me on Madison Avenue before I caved in to get that abortion. To find out I joined a self help group that was also doing that to women………..the hypocrisy disgusted me to no end.
And I disagree that there is anything compassionate in the theater of abortion. To be forced to take another life, in any circumstance, is a brutal social experience.
There are two victims in that theater, minimum. The killer, and the killed. This is anti woman and anti child,it should not have to be explained.
When you can convince a woman, to kill her own child, the promise in that woman has been totally devalued. It is a very degrading and humiliating experience. When I ran it out in session, a black cloud appeared on the ceiling of the auditing room.
This is civilization at it’s very worst for women.
That the Sea Organization contributed to this, belies every claim they make to care about mankind.
That women are forced to take out their own children, so David Wilson and his wife Bonita can do OT8, while they surrender their own daughters to this madness called the Sea Organization, is just plain madness.
I mean, let’s keep it real folks. How many women killed their children so David Wilson could go OT? And you know, this guy is totally O.K. with that.
Sorry David, not everyone is a total dumb fk with the math. Not everyone is willing to be a door mat for you. If that makes them SP’s, you are the one with a serious problem in this atmosphere. And your problems are bleeding all over the sidewalks. You are dead already out here on the streets. You lost control of the streets. It’s over for you.
Sorry Dawn, I don’t know what Oracle “meant”, I only know what she wrote, so that’s all I can respond to. And apparently her words were intended to be taken literally, as she repeated those same views in several more posts after that. I don’t think I am the one who is confused, nor the one who needs to “chill”, my posts are well-reasoned and rational. – T.J.
David Miscavige is frightened out of his wits about
children. This is known that his deep seated fear is
BT’s from Children will fly off them and stick to him.
I thought DM had a copper wire led into his office to side-track the BTs?
Seriously though – did he actually believe such insanity?
I do know that there were a few instances on the Apollo where a young lady would disappear from the ship for a week or so and the rumor was she had an abortion. I remember when there was a rumor of this happening to one of LRH’s messengers. One would have to think that he knew of this occurring or even ordered it.
CPO,
Yes,David Miscavige had extra copper ground rods installed in
Bldg. 50 with ground wire going directly to the COB’s auditing room
for his sessions.What for is anybody’s guess.
The only reference I have on this is “Foot Plates Cancelled”by LRH.
It’s bogus and does not audit the BANK.
Even the BT’s of children wouldn’t care to co habitate with that menacing particle. How narcissistic of him to think they would choose to fly towards him.
From several sources of former Int.Base Staff.
Recent Tell all books including chapters on David Miscavige.
Cadet Org abolished by David Miscavige etc.
Perhaps if Miscavige reverses his prohibition against masturbation, and even glorifies it as an on-source outlet for sexual release, all these Sea Org slaves will knock off with the sex, and pregnancies will become a thing of the past.
Okay, that’s not gonna happen…
Well, how about an RB cartoon about the state of mind of a 15 year ago of sea org boy who is not allowed to date or masturbate…
I felt really bad that my wife,son and scientology “friends”disconnected from me after I got in ethics trouble.But rbs cartoons week after week remind me what a load of nonsense the still ins are eating.Of course David Miscavage is selling,but they are buying even if nobody is getting anywhere or worse.
I agree with Joe.If people are so deluded in 2016 that they are buying this criminal nonsense then I do not see them as victims but rather as hopeless morons. Maybe I did not lose as much as I thought when they disconnected from me.
Please don’t give up on your son. I don’t know how old he is, but there is always hope that at some point, he will come to his senses and want to re-connect with you. Have patience, faith, persistence, and when that day comes, please welcome him with open arms. I know it must be so very hard for you parents with disconnected children (I have kids too) but I’m thinking the children who disconnected must also face the shame and regret of their actions when they finally do come out. Showing unconditional love would go a long way in repairing relationships. I wish all parents and children loving reunions… how wonderful that will be. – T.J.
“Helping” mankind by destroying a developing human being in the womb…what sick, perverted logic.
CO$ is demonic.
Those Sea Org sillies all puffed up in self importance hising their cowardice inside their FAKE navy uniforms, being so cavalier that killing a baby is nothing to them because they have to stay focused on “Saving” mankind as the world’s “Last Hope” is SO PATHETIC…
I agree with the other commenter that, at some point, those who choose to stay in are to blame for the abuse they allow to happen to themselves. At some point, in your “heart of hearts” you come to face the reality of CO$ being what it really is, but knowing that, if you still choose to remain in it, you only have yourself to blame…
May this year see more and more people leaving the cult, and finding true freedom.
That’s why cults are so insidious and detrimental. they take over your free will little by little and subvert your actions, suppressing a person’s ability to think for themself… until you have a mass suicide situation like Jim Jones’ Jonestown, where cult members who once were normal, rationally-thinking human beings who at the end of their lives, felt they had to follow their leader’s every command to the point of giving their own children poison to drink. That’s why cults are so harmful, so awful, and we must strive to understand what causes this mind-set and how we can both prevent it, and also counteract it once it has set in.
That’s why we come to this forum to discuss it, that’s why we read news articles about Scientology and books such as Steve Hassan’s “Combating Cult Mind control” and Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath next door” and Jefferson Hawkins “Closing Minds” – because we can’t merely blame the victim by saying ‘they should have known better’, we have to realize that ordinary people just like us, (or like Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, Marc Headley and his wife Claire) like any former Scientologist, like many other people in the world, can be, and are, affected by cult mentality and control factors – and if we care about our fellow human beings, and society as a whole, if we want to prevent another North Korea or Nazi holocaust, where large segments of people are unduly influenced by malevolent leaders, who then go on to commit wrongful acts on other human beings, then we have to understand that such a thing as “mind control” or “brainwashing” or simply a human being’s susceptibility to adverse persuasion does indeed exist, and that such people cannot merely be faulted for being stupid and therefor written off, but must be helped through and out of this state of being. For all of us. – T.J.
Hennessy, thank you for the nice comment, and for reading my long-winded post, I wasn’t sure that anyone would, lol. I hope you have a fun and relaxing weekend! 🙂 – T.J.
You’re welcome, T.J. The books you mentioned are very good and I found them to be very helpful. I appreciate your insight and enjoy reading your comments too. Take care.
Why buy into “spiritual freedom” and then feel obligated to surrender personal freedom, human rights, and your own civil rights? That math does not add up as a GAIN. It is a LOSS.
And this is my issue, how many people have to be set up for these losses, for only a few privileged to have some wins? Why are these staff supposed to throw themselves in front of a bus for Tom Cruise or David Miscavige? These men are nobody’s friends and family.
I was only able to be a public at the base about four times before I felt ashamed of myself. The misery and sacrifice of the other humans around me, was unbearable to watch. I don’t regret the six years I spent in the Sea Org helping, because I had to find a way to live with myself.
But anyone who walks onto the Flag Land Base right now, or into any Org for service, ought to be ashamed of themselves. Anyone contributing to this human sacrifice, misery and ethnic cleansing, has to be blind, narcissistic or willingly mean on some level.
I don’t blame anyone for being there and trying to help. I do not see it as a “prison of belief” because I don’t think 90% of the people on staff have ever read a book, been audited much or trained. There is nothing for them to “believe” in.
But, HOPE, and FAITH, are powerful forces. I see it as a prison of hope.
And wow, when you use that as a predator, to set people up for losses, through hope, faith and trust, you are already parked way south on the dark side. That is as unholy as it gets. And when hope and faith are all a person has left, it is very difficult for them to part with all was holy unto them. It is very hard to give that up.
And what Miscavige does is even worse, he gives people FALSE HOPE through false reports.
Dianetics Modern Science Of Mental Health page 161, 2007 edition;
“Once the child is conceived, no matter how “shameful” the circumstances, no matter the mores, no matter the income, that man or woman who would attempt an abortion on an unborn child is attempting a murder which will seldom succeed and is laying the foundation of a childhood illness and heartache. Anyone attempting an abortion is committing an act against the whole society and the future; any judge or doctor recommending an abortion should be instantly deprived of position and practice, whatever his “reason.”
Yep. However abortions have always been part of the S.O. (Ron was well aware of them). It just wasn’t enforced until the El Ron Minnie Me took over, abolished children and then started pushing the practice. They were pretty popular at Int before the “Ed Int” F.O. on no more children came out.
I first heard about the “hard sell” in the late 90’s from a mother who was recently out of the S.O. & scn because she refused.
I notice that he keeps using the word “attempts” – out that silly, absurd and misogynistic claim found in Dianetics that all (or a majority of) women somehow try to abort their pregnancies with home implements.
This is what he’s talking about there. When you do go to a clinic to get an actual abortion (for which there might be, BTW, a legit reason), there is nothing “seldom successful” or “attempted” about it. I have never heard of someone whose medical abortion “failed”. I wonder if these words apply then.
It’s a bit like when he says, human rights for “honest beings” or some such thing. “Honest being”, of course, being defined as whatever is convenient for scientology and Hubbard.
With Hubbard, everything is in the hidden details.
Kemist, it truly is bizarre – the descriptions of “AA’s”, or attempted abortions, in the book
Dianetics. Women look morally depraved thorough these descriptions. They insert household objects and cleaners to try to abort their fetuses, and multiple times! They also seem to be having illicit sex all the time too, and cheating on their husbands. They are so starved for an orgasm, that they are willing crush the heads of their unborn (Hubbard’s theory that this happens), without care. Women are constantly douching (who does this?). Women are also getting beaten on, and kicked or punched in the stomach, accompanied with verbal abuse on a routine, regular basis. Men are nothing but brutes. People are generally quite reckless in their treatment of each other. Hubbard claims that ‘everyone’ has these incidents in their prenatal record and multiple incidents too.
I used to rationalize these ideas of Hubbard’s with “abortion was illegal when he wrote this” and “times were different then” but it doesn’t really hold water.
Personally, knowing my Mom, who doesn’t believe in abortion for herself, but the right for each woman to make that decision, she did not engage in these AA’s, and I’m sure there are billions like her. I would often wonder to myself while reading Dianetics, what world does Hubbard live in, or where does he come from? This never communicated a healthy outlook on basic human nature to me, or relations between men and women. It has morphed into the modern scene in the SO.
On a happier note, I have seen a steady progression out of the SO with couples getting pregnant and leaving to try for a normal life. All the power to them for doing so. Everyone has the right to pursue their own personal liberty and happiness.
Thank you for writing this , dan350 , we all know it of course , but good to be reminded.
Thanks for bringing the subject to the table RB , the further away in time I am from the cos , the easier it is to forget , and I don’t want to forget.
There are two words you’ll never hear an SO exec ever say – “I’m sorry.”
They live, eat, breathe and exist below remorse and even as their empire crashes around them they’ll say something stupid like, “we’ll be back…”
I’m still not over reading Shelley’s post yesterday, her mother 60 years in Scientology, LRH’s friend AND auditor, and then declared right near her death in her 80s. There are no words to fully describe the moral sickness of these people. Sorry, but I have no respect for the people that stay in, just different degrees of contempt. They must see, but they decide in any of the various ways they justify it to contribute to the motion. I don’t give a fuck what anyone says about how damaged they are, so don’t bother telling me, they are NOT victims in my eyes. After a while they become as responsible as Miscavige because they make his postulates a reality. He’d be simply a masturbating fantasizer without his army. And the whales are the worst, the worst. Can’t wait until they pay up the ass for and do “OTX” … that’ll be a hoot.
” I don’t give a fuck what anyone says about how damaged they are, so don’t bother telling me, they are NOT victims in my eyes. After a while they become as responsible as Miscavige because they make his postulates a reality.”
Amen to what you say Joe! And after checking out Tony’s blog today it is double down on what you say. And to those who still think it is all about Miscavige and how He altered the tech …………….El Con was one sick puppy!
I’m glad people are finally speaking out about the fact that the abused and the abusers are no longer victims when they stay to perpetuate an organization that is this sick. I’ve seen many stories about victims from other types of cults escaping – some in their teens – because they could see how sick the cult was. Many end up on the street at first but many find their way to the right people to help them start a new life.
Scientology was designed from the very beginning to entrap, and it preyed on the ego first and foremost, over anything that was spiritually or fellowship oriented. One could argue that the practice of scientology itself carves the soul out of a person, but the suffering of others is probably the one thing that has the power to touch the soul of even these robots. Apparently it doesn’t.
I’m concerned about the people in “the hole”, it’s so worrisome how they seem to feel that they…. how to put it…. they “need” to stay there? Are ‘supposed’ to? Or are on the RPF…. it’s like when I read posts from former members who were in that situation, like Mike Rinder, who is out now (obviously) but did stay in for far too long… or someone like Chuck Beatty who comes across as a kind, caring, intelligent man, yet he was in there for years…. I think to myself how does this happen?
What force compels people to stay in that type of situation? There are still too many caught up in this, and I just don’t feel comfortable writing them off by saying, they should know better, they should remove themselves from that situation….. because it seems as though there is some type of force at work here beyond what is normal or usual… something that compels otherwise decent, rational people to do this to themselves…. to stay in a bad situation, and I have to ask, what is it? why??
So I guess I’m just trying to find answers. Then maybe, at some point, we could find a solution?
Hey Joe. Nice said set of words there. It’s tough to get the correct sentiment across about the contempt scios show for life in general or specifically to the damage to well intentioned people they actively create and relish. I agree whole heartedly with what you say.
L. Ron Hubbard started all of the sickness you see today. And, really, it is a sickness. A psychological sickness. No one ever gets “better” in the cult. You only get worse. Everybody is pissed off. No one gets proper sleep. The food is shit. These people have a mental illness that they themselves impose on each other. I wish them well.
You’re so right, Old Surfer Dude. NO ONE gets better in scientology – NO ONE. It creates a mentally sick, emotionless, callous mindset of deprivation and meanness. It strips one of personal dignity, self respect, self confidence, judgment and personal belongings and personal financial stability and financial dignity. I became very broke, mentally cowed and blind to the cause.
Sadly, I saw this so very clearly only after I left and had been out a while and when I noticed how much my own life improved almost immediately I’d left. It was a fascinating bit of insight. I had not realised, all the time I was in, how the general standard of my living had radically dropped, how little confidence I was reduced to and how little happiness I ever felt. And how fearful I was a lot of the time. Amazing.
Dawn, the main thing is, at least in my mind, is, YOU GOT YOUR LIFE BACK!!! That other part of your life is now gone for good! You can now do whatever you want to do with YOUR life. Congrats on getting out! We all went through shit with this cult and now we’re all out. With wonderful lives!
Joe, I’m with you. I’ve lost patience with those who are still in. I expect many don’t know of the atrocities but there is much that it wrong, even on the surface. I left for fairly surface reasons, still a scientologist, though. It was later that the realised the stink of the church and it’s founder. I’m cured good and properly.
hello everyone.i am a never in who has been following scientology for a few yers now.i find it fascinating how people can fall for that kind of scam.i do see however how it could happen to anyone.still its interesting to see how everyone progresses in a blog like this one,if only you spend some time and observe.theres people commenting from the whole range of the spectrum in here.people that just left the organisation(its definately not a church and i wouldnt even call it a cult either) all the way to people who have been out for years.
its very interesting. those that came out recently still follow the habits and “beliefs” of scientology so to speak.most of the times they can still swear that scietology works.then u move to people who have been out for a while.they see things more clearly and they can spot the bs easier.they can even tell you whats wrong with scientology.but at the same time that also implies that if those things werent happening,things would be so much better in the organisation.they can see the lies they have been fed,but their minds are not completely “free” yet.
then its those people with more time since coming out.they start to realise that hubbard was just an evil con man and as such, its probable that scientology is exactly what he intended it to be.they can get a glimpse of the idea but theyre not exactly there yet.
then theres those who are really free.their attitude is that theres nothing good about scientology.hubbard was a loser,a liar and a conman and he got what he deserved in the end.
and thats the truth folks.thats what scientology is.a sosciopath created a sosciopathic organization and people fell in the trap.he was lucky too,cause the period he lived in really helped him to set up the whole scam.
i just find it amazing that so much money is wasted on that organization,when they could be used for so so much more….from helping kids starving in africa,to helping homeless people in your town.its really sad to see that.especialy when you live in a country where unemployment is around 30%(if not more)…
as for my opinion of hubbard,i think the guy was evil.and i mean it in every sense of the word.
he was following the occult,he was a narcissist and a megalomaniac and thought he deserved to own the world.at the same time he was an abuser and wifebeater(the real one ha-ha…) a pathological liar,and in the end,he lied so much that he believed his own lies.he created an evil world for others to fall in and follow him so he could take advantage of them,and in the end he got consumed by that same evil world himself.
anyway,i hope you all recover quickly from your unfortunate experience and reconnect with loved ones.
i have some thoughts on that too(disconnection),but maybe next time.just wanted to say hi for now.lol
Bam! KPow! In your face, RB. Thank you.
Scientology is against life, scientology is only pro-scientology
These people are evil and sick. A cult that should be stopped
I love it!
Yay! for anyone who stands up to the mind-fuck perpetrated by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientolopgy. The bars of the prison are (largely) inside your heads, folks!
Regrettably I made the same wrong decision with my wife. I still feel the pain.
RB, A powerful situation. I do believe you have some wog fight in you! 😉
Faaantastic !!! That is the finest, bestest yet of all the RB’s I’ve read. Just tell those bastards where to get the fuck off ! Very Well Done, RB. Thank you for the F/N.
Some religions are smart enough to encourage reproduction (and event prohibit contraception) because they will then increase the number of adherents geometrically over time.
Only Scientology has the level of hypocrisy to say abortions are fine when its founder decried abortions and to be stupid enough to discourage the natural population growth of Scientologists via families.
Scientology, the Homer Simpson “Doh!” (or “Dough!”) religion, appropriately spoken for by the voice of Bart Simpson.
I had 3 children while in the SO even though there were orders against it issued prior to the last one I know of in late 84 or early 85. I found 4 concerning this in my files and then the last 3 FOs by ED Int late 96 but by then I’d been kicked out and my petition to ED Int was denied 3 months after the request and demanded I follow the FOs written 3 months after I’d left. By then I could not past the required Fitness Board per the new FOs since I had no choice but run up credit card debt getting an apartment, vehicle and equipment to start a business after being kicked out. It was a very suppressive situation for me with my husband and 4 children in the SO. And yes, Joe as you say, the suppression did and does come from the management level and the persons remaining that have so compromised their integrity as to leave their loved ones on insistence from executives and management. I will likely never forgive my husband for remaining and leaving me with the burden of supporting 4 children in a world I’d never operated in alone. But he likely will never apologies.
All my children are out of the SO now and only 2 will not communicate so I for sure am not the one with regrets – if any it’s that I stayed about 6 years past when I knew I should leave – 1990. Each one of those remaining have to sort this out for themselves or not – depending on how much, like LRH would say, each want to survive. It can’t possibly be comfortable for any of them there unless they just wanted free room and board.
Bravo, RB! This warmed my heart!
I know of one woman who was once soooo GungHo SO, who after a brief stint in is now out of the SO with 2 kids.
I know of a former Class V org female staff member who, after 20 years on staff, had 2 more children in rapid succession and moved with her husband and kids to a remote and very large state where there is NO Scientology. The nearest Scientology org to them is 500 miles away.
My opinion, based solely on my very limited anecdotal observations, is that pregnancy is now THE path OUT for married female staff and SO.
To which I say, “Be fruitful and multiply!”.
I think the cult is scared to press couples too hard to abort now.
The cherch needs to bite the bullet: One cannot place a huge, PARTIAL suppression on the 2nd dynamic (marriage is OK, marital sex is OK, but children are forbidden). This is insane and inane.
Bite the bullet, cult!
Either mandate that all SO remain single and celibate, NO sex, NO 2d, OR allow them to marry and have children.
That seems to be the case. I know of another couple that got pregnant and routed out recently. It takes the whistle blowers to stop the abuses. Thank you Laura DeCrescenzo.
Dave, one question: How’s your family?
well this time it looks unreal to me. I don’t think they do that so openly, but it’s how they do on many matters.
“There is no such thing as forced abortion the way you are characterizing it. It just doesn’t happen.” – Former Ex-Spokesperson.
“the way you are characterizing it”
As opposed to how we actuality do it
“All those women that had abortions did so by their own choice. In point of fact, COB was totally okay with whatever decision these gals made, notwithstanding the fact that he had to take valuable time from his already busy schedule to address these issues. I hope this clears the matter up once and for all. There’s way too much cob-bashing going on and frankly, he’s got better things to do than stoop to the level of several of the commenters on this blog.” – Former Ex-Spokesperson
That was Tommy “The Weasel” Davis. And I believe he was talking about disconnection, not abortion. He was on with John Rogers of CNN.
AMEN.
Yea! I cheered out loud when I read that last frame. Yes! That is how it should be and could be if beings come to their senses and look and go with their gut feeling of what is right. You don’t need someone else telling you what is right from their hidden agenda point of view! Way to go Regraded Being! As an aside here, my daughter and son were on staff at LA Org before 200 SO came to take it over to show them how it’s done. But earlier than that, her contract was coming to be over in about 4 or 5 months. The Org terminals started working on her 5 or 6 months in advance to make sure she re-signed. She told me, her boyfriend, her brother, her other family and friends that she would NOT re-sign her contract. I told her that I supported her in that decision. But then the LA Org HCO did exactly what RB said in his cartoon: they worked on her and showed her hand picked references that they could quote out of context some and others not, and said how she was one of the few even capable of confronting the mess the planet is in and that if she didn’t do it, then who? No one else was up to it. I was disappointed and told her she should let them change her mind. She said they didn’t: they just gave her references to read and she changed it. This hit close to home. She re-signed and then later joined the SO. Sigh.
Dear Cindy – here’s hoping your daughter comes around soon and has an epiphany, reuniting the both of you. Won’t that be a happy day!
THank you for your postulate,Gadfly. Please include my son in it too. Both kids disconnected from me for nothing more than reading the blogs. Of course HCO had to make up stuff in the Declare Order to make it sound justified, but that is now the standard operating procedure. I hope I get both my kids back soon.
Cindy, that story is so heartbreaking. The illusion of self-determinism is one of their most effective tools of manipulation. I am sure that they would just as forcefully disallow their target of manipulation from discussing the meaning and relevance of the referenced quotes with any other parties.
Cindy, I’m postulating that that beautiful daughter of yours gets married and pregnant and decides to keep the baby and has to leave the SO. Of course, the best thing would be if she simply cognited and left but I’m being realistic. I think people who join the SO actually DO have a strong desire to help humanity, and that help button of theirs can be utilized to manipulate them into staying in, BUT when a woman becomes pregnant, there is that new life in her body – beautiful new life that SHE co-created, that is within her, trusting her, utterly dependent upon her, and as such, pressing her Help button in a way that excludes all other demands for her help. If this were not the rule with women then the human race would have died out long ago.
Thank you, Aquamarine and HGC10. I appreciate the postulates. It’s interesting how the church stacks the deck their way always. They get to work on the people to re-sign but if you offer up anything on the other side, you are labeled “C.I” or “S.P.” My daughter’s boyfriend at the time didn’t want her to re-sign because he wanted to marry her and travel the world and she couldn’t do that as a staff member. And he wanted to have kids after eventually and he said he didn’t want his wife on staff and thus unable to raise the kids. He wanted the kids to have a mother and know their mother and that wouldn’t be possible if she was on staff. For voicing these opinions, he was censured, had to have a session with HCO, and my daughter, convinced by them that he was CI and possibly even SP for having those views, was convinced she had to disconnect from him, and so she agreed, labeled him “bad” and broke up from the man she loved. It’s sick.
Hey Cindy. I assume this happened recently? And she WANTED not to re-sign? So they pulled her in and showed her some quotes or whatever, out of context, of course, to persuade her to stay? And they verbally and psychologically beat her into submission? I can smell the stink of that cult from here. I’m so sorry, honey! Your daughter is missing out on one fantastic Mom!
Thank you, OSD. I agree!
Cindy, that happened to other young people who were public staff at LA Org when the takeover happened. They got worked on and ended up joining the SO. This gross manipulation of people occurs on so many levels in the CoS, whether it’s having an abortion, joining staff, signing a SO contract, donating to Ideal Orgs, Super Power, IAS, TWTH, etc., recruiting minors into the SO, and Disconnection. It’s just an evil of the church. You sound like a great Mom and wise lady. I hope things work out for your family soon.
Thanks, Hennessy. And what young kid wouldn’t respond well to the “You’re such a Big Being” close? Instead of hearing, “Please pick up your socks and clean your room and be back by midnight,” The are told they are Big Beings, Generals of entire armies on the whole track…” They stroke the kids with love bombs and build up their egos and tell them age is just an arbitrary … and so they become like the Joan of Arc who will single handedly clear the planet and that we need you to just sign right here. Here’s the pen…
Nothing like the ‘mirror effect,’ I call it.
When feeling or being intimidated just do back exactly what another is doing to you and watch the sparks fly.
The fake, blinded determinism shown by scios, especially the SO is so out of wack with their results they can only be minimally be branded as idiots, insane is more apt term. To seriously listen to, let alone act on what a scio says you should do is to join their ranks, such is the contagion of aberration. Keep well away from corporate scientologists is the best advice one could ever give or take.
Nice one (once again) RB.
I think the Scientology Organization mocked up a reactive mind when it mocked up the Guardian’s Office. O.S.A. responds to stimuli. With the press releases now, it’s all reaction. But I always felt the M.A.A. was the little OSA rep in every Org. They react only to perceived threats. Miscavige turned most of the women at the Int Base into serial killers claiming to save mankind. That is how twisted it got.
I agree. It’s become what it preaches against. Instead of getting rid of “case” or the “reactive mind,” the church of scientology has become a living, breathing demonstration of stimulus-response and most of its remaining staff and parishioners are like little receptors that have been put in place to protect the survival of the host. They don’t even realize that there is no host. It’s a facade, a mock-up of david miscavige’s imagination that grew out of the head of LRonHubbard.
Did you ever think about the fact that every time a P.C. knocks out an auditor’s T.R.’s, that P.C. is sent to ethics right away? When the auditor gets keyed in, the P.C. gets sent to ethics. Whatever a person has done that pushes a button for the Church, they end up in ethics about it. When the Church can not face something, (reacts), it calls in ethics or O.S.A.. It is the reactive mind of the organization, machinery put in place to deal with things people just can not confront. If everybody’s TR’s were really in, why would you need that kind of machinery? Paulette Cooper bull baited the church, and it’s tr’s were out. The OSAstaff are in the identity of a reactive mind.
In this case auditor plus pc is less than the bank.
Laughter! It is the truth! 2FF!
It was like that after 1982 with the introduction of political confessional policies. What the PC was saying in session became actionable. Which is the worst form of Q&A, auditor code break and is completely suppressive. I couldn’t believe it. It was negation of tech. Then a PC could be sent to ethics if he was “too key in”. PC had to behave at this point. This idea was already instilled by GO who had to spot possible “type 3” on lines which might cause trouble (they had actual troubles with PC going occasionnaly insane, it was a real issu but it became a full paranoia and they started to stop people for their cases).
But in the 1970, I was trained as an auditor to have a real TR0, to confront anything from the PC (I had a PC who tried to hit me with the bottle on Op pro by dup !, PC didn’t go to ethics, but I had to do some Tr9 !). At this time the policy was Processing, “what turn it on wil turn it off”.
Hubbard in 1975 had a simple PGM : to make 100 000 class IV. And it was real. There were an awful lot of people on the academy.
At this time scientology was of help (not going to save people from hurricane !) I remember many PCs in the early 1970 arriving with a terrible mental condition. Really sad, distressed, in real need of help. And they were audited intensively. One PC, he couldn’t eat. The auditor was feeding him with baby food. And gradually the PC went back to life.
Myself, I remember having audited a woman on life repair. She was feeling her life was a mess. She was so ARCX with life. I audited that, very simple PGM of ruds and two way comm. And one morning she said that she felt again some joy and had hope in the future.
Just Oracle to remember the other side of scientology, the reason we stayed so long, hoping things would go better.
But the monster is on the house for more than 30 years. And scientology is no longer scientology.
But, I tell you a story, it was around 2000. A friend a mine had cancer. He did everything, but he was going down. He was very weak, in a state where we could fear he died anytime.
I spoke to a D of P of an AO knowing very well my friend would be an illegal PC (but he was on not’s level). And the D of P said “bring him in”. I was amazed, but I said to my friend “let’s go. why not see ?”
Dying people like having reason to jump off the bed! He went.
Had an interview. D of P said “we put him under the heading of emergency assist, then no eligibility, ethics clearance and all that shit”.
And he was given Not’s auditing. God, he was so much yawning between sessions. But color were back on his face. After no more than one week my friend was not only up tone but really look healthy, was on a stable win and was sent back home. He did some medical exam : the cancer was gone! Yes it was gone!
The guy is still alive and in good health. He disconnected from me when I left the church, he said “they saved my life, I cannot reject them”.
I wanted to remind you why we believed on this subject.
Hope COB will one day be thrown through the window and scientology will go back to full life.
I heard you. Thanks for your kind acknowledgement. You did right by your friend. You will have many more. XXOO
P.S. And half of the “dirt” they have on people is dub in!
It came up in one of my sessions that my boyfriend had a taken a photo of me in the nude. It wasn’t even a frontal shot! I was routed to ethics and asked to sign an affidavit attesting that I had dabbled in “Pornography”!!!
I said, “Are you fkn CRAZY??? I’m not signing that. It’s not true.” “O.K.”, says the M.A.A.,, right there at Flag, and he slides it into the trash can. What the hell?? I requested a change of auditor. No more problems.
They did this to a LOT of people, trying to get them to think or admit they had done things that never happened because of the way THEY view things from their CASE. The worst story I heard was what they did to Tony Dephillips. What a nightmare! It is a miracle he didn’t hang himself off the causeway!
Once I had an auditor argue with me for over half an hour (on my session dime), that I had been involved in an out 2d, because I kissed someone in a parking lot, (I was not a staff member at the time) , while I was separated, but not yet divorced.
Speed of particle flow does not EQUAL POWER ON THE SECOND DYNAMIC TO THOSE PEOPLE!
The G.O. (and OSA from that) were an outgrowth of HCO (see HCO Manual of Justice) and was 100% Hubbard paranoia. “Scientology Orgs” didn’t want it. It was foisted off on them by a paranoid sociopath.
+100 thought would just share though that I prefer to use the term psychopath. Psychopaths in fact prefer the terms sociopath or antisocial personality disorder – it sounds better. Loaded language. Let’s call them what they are psychopaths for whom paranoia is normal and there is no cure. They are just less evolved than humans. Think crocodile brains.
Oracle you stated: Quote: “Miscavige turned most of the women at the Int Base into serial killers claiming to save mankind.”… This is an extremely offensive thing to say. Once again you lack the judgement to make reasoned, productive comments. This is a very hurtful comment and insult to women who already feel the pain of being coerced into a very traumatic life-altering situation and live with this every day. To refer to these women as “serial killers” shows you lack an ordinary amount of empathy. I don’t know what’s in your dark mind but it often spills out in unpleasant ways in your comments. Compassion? Understanding? Empathy? Foreign words to you. Please stop.
If I did not have empathy, compassion, or understanding, I would not view abortion as taking a life.
Nope. You can claim you are 6 feet tall, but if you are actually 5 feet 2, it shows. You can say you don’t look a day over 21, but if you are actually 80 years old, people can see it, and you are only fooling yourself. You are not widely known for showing an abundance of empathy, love and compassion. But hey, whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
What makes me feel good about myself is being mathematically inclined. Figuring out the math. We all do not do math the same way or come to the same conclusions in an equation.
First, I have no idea who or what you are so you need to know nothing I wrote was directed at you personally. I have no way of knowing what your items are, or are not.
Secondly, I have no purpose or reasons to force items on you that are not yours.
Then, I have no obligation to accept items forced upon me, that are not mine. “No compassion, no understanding” are not my items.
“Kill”, is not your item. I got it.
The reason I mentioned this at all, was to point out the insanity and cruelty, of luring women into a group claiming “enlightenment” and “salvation”, and to enforce an item like “kill” on them. That is mentally twisting someone. That is harming people. That is harming women and children. When the Church of Scientology enforces these items and purposes on women. And that is exactly what has happened.
This particular activity and event may have nothing to with you. And I am not asserting that it does. I have no intention of enforcing this item on anyone. If it’s not your item, the shoe doesn’t fit. We are not on the same page. But we can both be right.
Oracle, I see what you are saying, I understand your point. There’s no need to discuss it further (unless you feel that you want to). All is well, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s been put to rest. No worries mayte! 🙂 – T.J.
Peace. Happy Trails. XXOO
I also do not think it behooves anyone, to cover up or minimize the domestic abuse put upon women and children in that organization. I would certainly not “keep on a lid on it” to avoid stepping on someone’s toes, that other women would stumble blindly into that kind of group or situation.
It infuriates me the way women and children have been handled in that culture. I have described it as a misogenic culture on many occasions.
I do not target the women of rape, as the predators. And I do not target the women that have been abused in any domestic situation.
To minimize the abuse put upon women under the charge of David Miscavige, is not doing anywhere a service.
I speak up about these things so others can be informed and not get set up for the same kind of losses. I think we owe this to one another.
It was certainly not my intention to upset another woman. But to point out the extent of the domestic abuse they are expected to endure, to “serve” David Miscavige.
The human sacrifice and collateral damage involved with making one “OT”, is a glaring outpoint. The entire activity is in the tone level of sacrifice. That is not “leading”. It is ethnic cleansing.
T.J. again…. actually, on second thought, I rescind my comment to Oracle. I am not anyone’s moral police, or conscience. When one posts on a public blog, one runs the risk of reading things that are not always pleasant. That’s the nature of a public blog such as this one, that allows free speech, and I’m grateful that Mike Rinder allows opposing views to be expressed here with little censorship (I’ve experienced none, personally). So, Oracle can continue to say whatever he or she wants, and my option is to either not read his/her comments here, or to go elsewhere if it’s too upsetting for me to read this forum. My post was a gut-reaction spur of the moment reply to a comment that I found appalling, and hurtful to those women who had been coerced into a decision they may regret, it was based on having empathy for them and respect for their feelings, but as I said, I am not anyone’s moral police or responsible for someone else’s conscience. So, nevermind, disregard me, and carry on with debate, conversation, and even name-calling if some desire… so, from my heart, wishing all here the best, and sending love and light to everyone (as inspired by Ann B, who often does just that here) Peace. – T.J.
Well T.J., I am not the moral police either. But as someone that was coerced to have an abortion myself, not by the Church, but, by a thug anyway, I had to own that.
I have every right to keep it real, say it as it really is, describe it for it was and is, with out getting slapped around myself about it.
I am not speaking as a person “without understanding or empathy” as you choose to judge me. I am not speaking as a person assuming “moral authority”. I mention it as a person that was also bullied with out options.
So please curb the attacks. You don’t know me and why I own this item and point it out to others for what it is.
TJ, that was a most awesome post! Thank you so much.
Brian, thank you for the nice comment. 🙂
I agree 100%. Women who have abortions are not ‘serial killers’ and to say so is disgusting and ignorant. In the Oracle’s world view Claire Headley and Laura DeCrescenzo aren’t heroes, but serial killers. Nice.
No one should ever be “forced” to have an abortion, but abortion is many times the most compassionate option. The world would be a much better place if every baby born was truly wanted and prepared for – instead of an accident foisted upon unwilling and unready women.
I don’t think it is disgusting and ignorant. I own and admit what I did. I just did not do it over and over and over. I am not ignorant. I did it myself. And I had to face up to what I did, and I did that honestly.
You are the one laying out names here for people to be judged.
Listen, it is what it is. And these women at the Int base that are “International executives” and “Holy” and “squeaky clean”. They are not.
The thing about me is, I admit and own what I have been and done.
And therefore I know I know what others have done and are doing too. I am not going to shove that under rug. People do very unusual things under stress and lack of options. That women are driven to this is testimony to the every day despair they embrace in the Church of Scientology.
If we do not admit it, we can not change it.
Sunny is not exposing any sister here. The two women mentioned in her post went public with their abortion experience for a reason. They wanted to expose the abortion coercion practice in the church. Claire and Lauren did a great job and have helped other women by going public. Sunny did not victimize them; she validated their life experience, and I believe that if they were to read her post, they would understand her intention.
I really don’t think it was necessary to start a name list under the topic of serial killer. The point I was making was how women get twisted maligned and degraded in that atmosphere .
I see the point you were making, The Oracle. Abortion is an emotional topic. Take care.
And the fact that you are dragging sisters out on this blog and fair gaming them,and trying to shift that on to me? That is straight up wrong. Injustice. I see it. It does not matter to me if others do not.
I will say this, someone had to physically face beat me on Madison Avenue before I caved in to get that abortion. To find out I joined a self help group that was also doing that to women………..the hypocrisy disgusted me to no end.
And I disagree that there is anything compassionate in the theater of abortion. To be forced to take another life, in any circumstance, is a brutal social experience.
There are two victims in that theater, minimum. The killer, and the killed. This is anti woman and anti child,it should not have to be explained.
When you can convince a woman, to kill her own child, the promise in that woman has been totally devalued. It is a very degrading and humiliating experience. When I ran it out in session, a black cloud appeared on the ceiling of the auditing room.
This is civilization at it’s very worst for women.
That the Sea Organization contributed to this, belies every claim they make to care about mankind.
That women are forced to take out their own children, so David Wilson and his wife Bonita can do OT8, while they surrender their own daughters to this madness called the Sea Organization, is just plain madness.
I mean, let’s keep it real folks. How many women killed their children so David Wilson could go OT? And you know, this guy is totally O.K. with that.
Sorry David, not everyone is a total dumb fk with the math. Not everyone is willing to be a door mat for you. If that makes them SP’s, you are the one with a serious problem in this atmosphere. And your problems are bleeding all over the sidewalks. You are dead already out here on the streets. You lost control of the streets. It’s over for you.
Yikes, T.J. – chill! If I may say, Don’t be so literal. We know what Oracle meant, at least I did. I think you did. Let’s keep cool.
Sorry Dawn, I don’t know what Oracle “meant”, I only know what she wrote, so that’s all I can respond to. And apparently her words were intended to be taken literally, as she repeated those same views in several more posts after that. I don’t think I am the one who is confused, nor the one who needs to “chill”, my posts are well-reasoned and rational. – T.J.
David Miscavige is frightened out of his wits about
children. This is known that his deep seated fear is
BT’s from Children will fly off them and stick to him.
True story
I thought DM had a copper wire led into his office to side-track the BTs?
Seriously though – did he actually believe such insanity?
I do know that there were a few instances on the Apollo where a young lady would disappear from the ship for a week or so and the rumor was she had an abortion. I remember when there was a rumor of this happening to one of LRH’s messengers. One would have to think that he knew of this occurring or even ordered it.
CPO,
Yes,David Miscavige had extra copper ground rods installed in
Bldg. 50 with ground wire going directly to the COB’s auditing room
for his sessions.What for is anybody’s guess.
The only reference I have on this is “Foot Plates Cancelled”by LRH.
It’s bogus and does not audit the BANK.
This is True
Thanks Jose. Maybe the copper wire was to have been like a lightning rod… or we can only hope.
I thought Dave preferred goldenrod.
OOOOOOORRRRRRRR…We could skip the Golden and just give him the ‘rod.’ I believe that would wrap things up nicely…..
Yup, like my pappy used to say, “spare the rod and spoil the child.’
Even the BT’s of children wouldn’t care to co habitate with that menacing particle. How narcissistic of him to think they would choose to fly towards him.
Actually his fear of kids is a saving grace…… In so many ways!
Jose, do you have a link to this story?
From several sources of former Int.Base Staff.
Recent Tell all books including chapters on David Miscavige.
Cadet Org abolished by David Miscavige etc.
Jose, could you be more specific on these references?
(This sounds like the beginning of an interesting DM button to push….)
Perhaps if Miscavige reverses his prohibition against masturbation, and even glorifies it as an on-source outlet for sexual release, all these Sea Org slaves will knock off with the sex, and pregnancies will become a thing of the past.
Okay, that’s not gonna happen…
Well, how about an RB cartoon about the state of mind of a 15 year ago of sea org boy who is not allowed to date or masturbate…
I felt really bad that my wife,son and scientology “friends”disconnected from me after I got in ethics trouble.But rbs cartoons week after week remind me what a load of nonsense the still ins are eating.Of course David Miscavage is selling,but they are buying even if nobody is getting anywhere or worse.
I agree with Joe.If people are so deluded in 2016 that they are buying this criminal nonsense then I do not see them as victims but rather as hopeless morons. Maybe I did not lose as much as I thought when they disconnected from me.
Please don’t give up on your son. I don’t know how old he is, but there is always hope that at some point, he will come to his senses and want to re-connect with you. Have patience, faith, persistence, and when that day comes, please welcome him with open arms. I know it must be so very hard for you parents with disconnected children (I have kids too) but I’m thinking the children who disconnected must also face the shame and regret of their actions when they finally do come out. Showing unconditional love would go a long way in repairing relationships. I wish all parents and children loving reunions… how wonderful that will be. – T.J.
“Helping” mankind by destroying a developing human being in the womb…what sick, perverted logic.
CO$ is demonic.
Those Sea Org sillies all puffed up in self importance hising their cowardice inside their FAKE navy uniforms, being so cavalier that killing a baby is nothing to them because they have to stay focused on “Saving” mankind as the world’s “Last Hope” is SO PATHETIC…
I agree with the other commenter that, at some point, those who choose to stay in are to blame for the abuse they allow to happen to themselves. At some point, in your “heart of hearts” you come to face the reality of CO$ being what it really is, but knowing that, if you still choose to remain in it, you only have yourself to blame…
May this year see more and more people leaving the cult, and finding true freedom.
That’s why cults are so insidious and detrimental. they take over your free will little by little and subvert your actions, suppressing a person’s ability to think for themself… until you have a mass suicide situation like Jim Jones’ Jonestown, where cult members who once were normal, rationally-thinking human beings who at the end of their lives, felt they had to follow their leader’s every command to the point of giving their own children poison to drink. That’s why cults are so harmful, so awful, and we must strive to understand what causes this mind-set and how we can both prevent it, and also counteract it once it has set in.
That’s why we come to this forum to discuss it, that’s why we read news articles about Scientology and books such as Steve Hassan’s “Combating Cult Mind control” and Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath next door” and Jefferson Hawkins “Closing Minds” – because we can’t merely blame the victim by saying ‘they should have known better’, we have to realize that ordinary people just like us, (or like Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, Marc Headley and his wife Claire) like any former Scientologist, like many other people in the world, can be, and are, affected by cult mentality and control factors – and if we care about our fellow human beings, and society as a whole, if we want to prevent another North Korea or Nazi holocaust, where large segments of people are unduly influenced by malevolent leaders, who then go on to commit wrongful acts on other human beings, then we have to understand that such a thing as “mind control” or “brainwashing” or simply a human being’s susceptibility to adverse persuasion does indeed exist, and that such people cannot merely be faulted for being stupid and therefor written off, but must be helped through and out of this state of being. For all of us. – T.J.
Agreed, T.J. and thank you.
Hennessy, thank you for the nice comment, and for reading my long-winded post, I wasn’t sure that anyone would, lol. I hope you have a fun and relaxing weekend! 🙂 – T.J.
You’re welcome, T.J. The books you mentioned are very good and I found them to be very helpful. I appreciate your insight and enjoy reading your comments too. Take care.
I really felt that post!
Why buy into “spiritual freedom” and then feel obligated to surrender personal freedom, human rights, and your own civil rights? That math does not add up as a GAIN. It is a LOSS.
And this is my issue, how many people have to be set up for these losses, for only a few privileged to have some wins? Why are these staff supposed to throw themselves in front of a bus for Tom Cruise or David Miscavige? These men are nobody’s friends and family.
I was only able to be a public at the base about four times before I felt ashamed of myself. The misery and sacrifice of the other humans around me, was unbearable to watch. I don’t regret the six years I spent in the Sea Org helping, because I had to find a way to live with myself.
But anyone who walks onto the Flag Land Base right now, or into any Org for service, ought to be ashamed of themselves. Anyone contributing to this human sacrifice, misery and ethnic cleansing, has to be blind, narcissistic or willingly mean on some level.
I don’t blame anyone for being there and trying to help. I do not see it as a “prison of belief” because I don’t think 90% of the people on staff have ever read a book, been audited much or trained. There is nothing for them to “believe” in.
But, HOPE, and FAITH, are powerful forces. I see it as a prison of hope.
And wow, when you use that as a predator, to set people up for losses, through hope, faith and trust, you are already parked way south on the dark side. That is as unholy as it gets. And when hope and faith are all a person has left, it is very difficult for them to part with all was holy unto them. It is very hard to give that up.
And what Miscavige does is even worse, he gives people FALSE HOPE through false reports.
Dianetics Modern Science Of Mental Health page 161, 2007 edition;
“Once the child is conceived, no matter how “shameful” the circumstances, no matter the mores, no matter the income, that man or woman who would attempt an abortion on an unborn child is attempting a murder which will seldom succeed and is laying the foundation of a childhood illness and heartache. Anyone attempting an abortion is committing an act against the whole society and the future; any judge or doctor recommending an abortion should be instantly deprived of position and practice, whatever his “reason.”
LRH
Yep. However abortions have always been part of the S.O. (Ron was well aware of them). It just wasn’t enforced until the El Ron Minnie Me took over, abolished children and then started pushing the practice. They were pretty popular at Int before the “Ed Int” F.O. on no more children came out.
I first heard about the “hard sell” in the late 90’s from a mother who was recently out of the S.O. & scn because she refused.
I notice that he keeps using the word “attempts” – out that silly, absurd and misogynistic claim found in Dianetics that all (or a majority of) women somehow try to abort their pregnancies with home implements.
This is what he’s talking about there. When you do go to a clinic to get an actual abortion (for which there might be, BTW, a legit reason), there is nothing “seldom successful” or “attempted” about it. I have never heard of someone whose medical abortion “failed”. I wonder if these words apply then.
It’s a bit like when he says, human rights for “honest beings” or some such thing. “Honest being”, of course, being defined as whatever is convenient for scientology and Hubbard.
With Hubbard, everything is in the hidden details.
Kemist, it truly is bizarre – the descriptions of “AA’s”, or attempted abortions, in the book
Dianetics. Women look morally depraved thorough these descriptions. They insert household objects and cleaners to try to abort their fetuses, and multiple times! They also seem to be having illicit sex all the time too, and cheating on their husbands. They are so starved for an orgasm, that they are willing crush the heads of their unborn (Hubbard’s theory that this happens), without care. Women are constantly douching (who does this?). Women are also getting beaten on, and kicked or punched in the stomach, accompanied with verbal abuse on a routine, regular basis. Men are nothing but brutes. People are generally quite reckless in their treatment of each other. Hubbard claims that ‘everyone’ has these incidents in their prenatal record and multiple incidents too.
I used to rationalize these ideas of Hubbard’s with “abortion was illegal when he wrote this” and “times were different then” but it doesn’t really hold water.
Personally, knowing my Mom, who doesn’t believe in abortion for herself, but the right for each woman to make that decision, she did not engage in these AA’s, and I’m sure there are billions like her. I would often wonder to myself while reading Dianetics, what world does Hubbard live in, or where does he come from? This never communicated a healthy outlook on basic human nature to me, or relations between men and women. It has morphed into the modern scene in the SO.
On a happier note, I have seen a steady progression out of the SO with couples getting pregnant and leaving to try for a normal life. All the power to them for doing so. Everyone has the right to pursue their own personal liberty and happiness.
This is the best answer to their own practices. It’s a crime, and it will hunt them
Thank you for writing this , dan350 , we all know it of course , but good to be reminded.
Thanks for bringing the subject to the table RB , the further away in time I am from the cos , the easier it is to forget , and I don’t want to forget.
I wish it was that easy. So many women were broken by the enforced abortions. I do hope some were able to withstand the pressure.
What a powerful last pane. I never want that ability either.
There are two words you’ll never hear an SO exec ever say – “I’m sorry.”
They live, eat, breathe and exist below remorse and even as their empire crashes around them they’ll say something stupid like, “we’ll be back…”
Never….EVER…..will someone in the cult say, “I’m sorry.” They just wallow in the darkness of their own minds….
It is forbidden by LRH to say that .. I’m sorry ..
Bravo!
I’m still not over reading Shelley’s post yesterday, her mother 60 years in Scientology, LRH’s friend AND auditor, and then declared right near her death in her 80s. There are no words to fully describe the moral sickness of these people. Sorry, but I have no respect for the people that stay in, just different degrees of contempt. They must see, but they decide in any of the various ways they justify it to contribute to the motion. I don’t give a fuck what anyone says about how damaged they are, so don’t bother telling me, they are NOT victims in my eyes. After a while they become as responsible as Miscavige because they make his postulates a reality. He’d be simply a masturbating fantasizer without his army. And the whales are the worst, the worst. Can’t wait until they pay up the ass for and do “OTX” … that’ll be a hoot.
Can I have the link to shellys post?
It is a comment shelley made yesterday in response to the Thursday funnies that people are talking about.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-72/#comment-123243
” I don’t give a fuck what anyone says about how damaged they are, so don’t bother telling me, they are NOT victims in my eyes. After a while they become as responsible as Miscavige because they make his postulates a reality.”
Amen to what you say Joe! And after checking out Tony’s blog today it is double down on what you say. And to those who still think it is all about Miscavige and how He altered the tech …………….El Con was one sick puppy!
I’m glad people are finally speaking out about the fact that the abused and the abusers are no longer victims when they stay to perpetuate an organization that is this sick. I’ve seen many stories about victims from other types of cults escaping – some in their teens – because they could see how sick the cult was. Many end up on the street at first but many find their way to the right people to help them start a new life.
Scientology was designed from the very beginning to entrap, and it preyed on the ego first and foremost, over anything that was spiritually or fellowship oriented. One could argue that the practice of scientology itself carves the soul out of a person, but the suffering of others is probably the one thing that has the power to touch the soul of even these robots. Apparently it doesn’t.
Hi Alice,
I’m concerned about the people in “the hole”, it’s so worrisome how they seem to feel that they…. how to put it…. they “need” to stay there? Are ‘supposed’ to? Or are on the RPF…. it’s like when I read posts from former members who were in that situation, like Mike Rinder, who is out now (obviously) but did stay in for far too long… or someone like Chuck Beatty who comes across as a kind, caring, intelligent man, yet he was in there for years…. I think to myself how does this happen?
What force compels people to stay in that type of situation? There are still too many caught up in this, and I just don’t feel comfortable writing them off by saying, they should know better, they should remove themselves from that situation….. because it seems as though there is some type of force at work here beyond what is normal or usual… something that compels otherwise decent, rational people to do this to themselves…. to stay in a bad situation, and I have to ask, what is it? why??
So I guess I’m just trying to find answers. Then maybe, at some point, we could find a solution?
– T.J.
Hey Joe. Nice said set of words there. It’s tough to get the correct sentiment across about the contempt scios show for life in general or specifically to the damage to well intentioned people they actively create and relish. I agree whole heartedly with what you say.
May I please have the link to Shelley’s post, Joe? Thank you either way. Great comment.
Shelly’s story is in the comments section of yesterday’s (Thursday) post.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-72/#comment-123243
I second that, Joe. Well said.
L. Ron Hubbard started all of the sickness you see today. And, really, it is a sickness. A psychological sickness. No one ever gets “better” in the cult. You only get worse. Everybody is pissed off. No one gets proper sleep. The food is shit. These people have a mental illness that they themselves impose on each other. I wish them well.
You’re so right, Old Surfer Dude. NO ONE gets better in scientology – NO ONE. It creates a mentally sick, emotionless, callous mindset of deprivation and meanness. It strips one of personal dignity, self respect, self confidence, judgment and personal belongings and personal financial stability and financial dignity. I became very broke, mentally cowed and blind to the cause.
Sadly, I saw this so very clearly only after I left and had been out a while and when I noticed how much my own life improved almost immediately I’d left. It was a fascinating bit of insight. I had not realised, all the time I was in, how the general standard of my living had radically dropped, how little confidence I was reduced to and how little happiness I ever felt. And how fearful I was a lot of the time. Amazing.
Dawn, the main thing is, at least in my mind, is, YOU GOT YOUR LIFE BACK!!! That other part of your life is now gone for good! You can now do whatever you want to do with YOUR life. Congrats on getting out! We all went through shit with this cult and now we’re all out. With wonderful lives!
BRAVO!!! You can take the man out of Brooklyn, but you can’t take the Brooklyn courage out of him!!!
(It’s really not Brooklyn, Joe, it’s that you’re a real man and a REAL FREE THINKER! Again, BRAVO!)
Joe, I’m with you. I’ve lost patience with those who are still in. I expect many don’t know of the atrocities but there is much that it wrong, even on the surface. I left for fairly surface reasons, still a scientologist, though. It was later that the realised the stink of the church and it’s founder. I’m cured good and properly.
When you put it like that…
No arguing with this RB.