It’s awesome, awesome, awesome. The data is straight from LRH. It’s now the LRH brand. It used to be filled with barriers and twists and windings. This is how we are going to handle this sector of the universe. Blah blah blah blah….
How many times can Miscavige sucker these idiots into buying the bs that “this is now how LRH intended.” My God, are their memories REALLY this bad? Even the ones who have handled amnesia on the whole track?
I wonder how these dupes reconcile that Miscavige’s reputed sole function is to maintain standard tech, and ESPECIALLY the “standard tech” of the OT levels as RTC is funded by Advance Courses VSD. He has had this job since 1987 when he assumed power in RTC. That is nearly 30 years. Don’t they wonder that he has allowed all this out tech, off source, non-LRH twists and windings to continue to be sold for 29 years? And instead of rising up in horror that he has continued to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars selling squirrel stuff, they cheer him for “making it on source like LRH wanted”. That has been HIS JOB since 1987. He is just getting around to it now? Every single thing that L. Ron Hubbard ever said or wrote about all OT Levels, from R6EW to OT VIII fits in a single file cabinet drawer. There is nothing more. Nothing new since he died (BEFORE Miscavige took over RTC). How could it take 30 years to sort out one filing cabinet? That is slower even than the Tampa CF. Why weren’t the OT levels the FIRST thing he got “on source”?
It is an amazing demonstration of how these people have willingly surrendered their intelligence and demonstrate a gullibility that even Dan Sherman could not overhype. The only conclusion you can draw is that they are truly brainwashed.
From one of those success stories in the opening post:
“My sessions are going to be completely different now.”
And from another:
“You know when you read something that has some conflict in it, you tend to want to make it right.”
And yet another:
“The materials are so simple now.”
And yet another:
“… I spotted all the arbitraries remove …”
And yet another:
“I got an understanding of what is meant by ‘unrevised’ …”
ALL admission of gross alteration of either GAT I or GAT II or both.
Is this fucking eternal discussion about fucking Scn and fucking LRH ever going to fucking end? Don’t you guys and gals have anything better to do with your free time? Kids to raise? a family to attend to? A god-damn life to live, and REAL interesting things to do rather than this sickish game of being involved in Scn, either to support it or to criticise the fuck out of it?
Just get over it already, and find a god-damn better game to play than this childish Scn realated game. Seriously, don’t you guys ever get tired of all this bullshit?
Marildi with her damn fixations with LRH, always defending and supporting a god-damn criminal. FG blind as a fucking bat as much as I love him. Winsky, even if right in most of the substance of his arguments, always using his damn hostile style that help ABSOLUTELY nothing at all. Crazy fundamentalist Foolproof (his nickname is even fucking cultish) living a delusional life. Fucking Theo with his fucking “The brain is not the mind” bullshit. Sheeplebane always idolizing the crazy bastard LRH as if he were a fucking hero of some kind. RB in a crusade that have no happy ending for him beyond whatever sense of accomplishment that he might get from it.
Mike Rinder (someone I admire and respect A LOT) wasting his life and incredible talents in a garbage like DM, and a cult nobody gives a fuck about. You have beautiful kids and wife, Mike; are you really going to spend 5-10/more years of your life in all this crazy bullshit? NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you do will change a damn thing, believe me. This is a situation endemic to humans. A cult will end and another will be born, AWAYS!!! It just isn’t worth doing this anymore. I assure you that you will cognite on this soon enough, to use Scientologese. You will, Mike.
As long as you guys and gals are fixated to ANY degree on Scn (either to support it or to attack it) you are confessing to a certain degree, that you are STILL under its undue influence, IMHO. Otherwise none of you would be playing this worthless and pointless game.
Any of you need to heal? Seek REAL help in the CORRECT forum, which would be one where you can TOTALLY forget about Scn. The EP would be, “How come am I even involved in this bullshit of discussing Scn?
If DM is blown away, ANOTHER crazy fuck WILL replace him; I can guarantee that. This situation about ANY cults is endemic to society.To end one, is to see another one raise from the ashes of the dead one. As long as us humans have within ourselves the seed of ignorance and self-denial, there will always be cults.
By all means, play any fucking game you wish to play. But it seems to me that you are all lowering the quality and tone of your life by being involved with this sickish game called Scn, REGARDLESS if the game consist of supporting it or attacking it.
Peter Torres
Thetaclear: Sometimes I enjoy reading well-informed Scientology news and criticism. Hubbard and the Church were big influences on my early thinking. Also, a few of my friends are still involved, and so I have an interest in them waking up and being able to talk to them properly again.
I deplore the idea that people are still throwing their money, children and lives into something that is usually not what it purports to be, but I often find Mike’s blog to be refreshing and funny. The post today about the Maiden Voyage made me laugh in places.
I have a job and a family. I’m not going to be doing anything much more productive in my spare time on the train than reading blog posts. So don’t worry about those of us who are enjoying the decline in the fortunes of the House of Miscavige. You enjoy playing classical piano or chanting Buddhist poems in your spare time. We’re fine as we are.
And yet you were on the M2 web site a couple of years back desperately trying to find out about Solo NOTs in order to undertake it somewhere down the line one can only presume. So, you’ve given up probably because it was too much hard work or you had to fork out some money, even in the independent field, and are now encouraging others to do so because you didn’t get the gains you wanted or the materials free of charge and are now all huffy about it. As Archie says we’re fine as we are and despite you labeling me, presumably in your mind derogatorily as a “crazy fundamentalist”, I will now resist doing the same for you, if only to appease Mike. Interesting that it seems to be ok to label people with my attitude to Scientology in a sneering manner yet if I were to label you in the same vein now you would think that that is somehow unacceptable.
“And yet you were on the M2 web site a couple of years back desperately trying to find out about Solo NOTs in order to undertake it somewhere down the line one can only presume. ”
Foolproof, we want to ENCOURAGE people coming up in IQ and thus, leaving scamology. Peter finally came out of scamology zombie mode. That’s a GOOD thing.
:)))
Peter, I’m glad you are happy and doing what YOU want in life rather than what others want you to do. Keep on keeping on!
Foolproof: I wasn’t commenting on YOUR I.Q. You do protest too much, methinks.
Actually Mike (Wynski), per (non-Scientology) test my IQ is in the top 0.1% of society and I left “Scientology” zombie mode in the 1980s when it no longer was “Scientology” as such.
Oh, what a magnificent piece of Dead Agenting you’re trying on Peter. How very OSA of you. What’s next, a smear video about him?
Peter has been very public about his transition out. Everyone knows that:
1) he “gave up” because he finally ceased to believe in Hubbard, which didn’t happen until about a year ago. He and I were at loggerheads before that because we were on opposing sides due to his belief in the Tech.
2) at the time he went to Millstone Two to ask about Solo NOTs, he still believed he could get gains from the Tech. Now, this isn’t the case.
3) he repudiated Millstone Two when he realized what a bunch of quasi-fascist fundamentalists they were, with no ability to change, adapt, or accept anyone who didn’t pull the same hard line. There are other former Millstoners here. Why don’t you ask them why they’re not there anymore? They may give you an answer that you won’t like.
If you and the rest of the Millstoners were honest with yourselves, you’d ask why people like Peter totally give up on the Tech. Then again, your people have funny little acronyms that explain everything away, like NCG, DB, and SP. It makes it so easy to blow someone off when you have the vocabulary.
Thanks Espiando! :)))
Foolproof, I can guarantee you that I’ll see you on my side of the fence in less than two years!!!
BTW, I wasn’t asking about Solo-NOTs with the idea of doing it myself. As much as I believed in the Tech, I never agreed with LRH in everything even when I was in as a staff member. I never agreed with the fixation on getting rid of BTs as a method of freeing others. Just notice how LRH was delusional at the end of his life STILL trying to get rid of his BTs by getting electrocuted!!!
What I was trying to ascertain at MS2 was whether or not the Solo-Nots at the field was “standard” w/out alterations so as to protect the case of others. As a matter of fact, I have under my possession the materials for the ENTIRE BRIDGE, from raw meat, up to Clear, Power and Power Plus, R6EW, the Clearing Course, fom OT 1 (each version) to OTIII, all the original OT levels, ALL of NOTs, the LS, the original Class 8/course with the original check sheet, the original Class 8 lectures unedited, the ESTO tapes, the FEBC tapes, the Exp DNs original research and tapes, the Psychosis research cases C/Ses where the Ls originated from, ALL lectures and ALL books.
And you know what? I have studied IN DETAIL for the last 15 years ALL of the above, and know each material by heart. Do you? I knew this BEFORE I even participated at MS2. Do you want to test my knowledge and command of Scn? Go ahead and test me. Just remember that I will test YOURS as well. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing that MS2 has that I don’t; absolutely NOTHING as Scn materials is concerned. A personal friend of mine is an original Class 8, class 9 AO review auditor and C/S, a Ls auditor and C/S. I could have gotten ANYTHING from him should I have wanted it, in terms of set-ups and C/Sing. Gee, he even C/S for most of the MS2 people. Did you think that I was one of these untrained ex SO executives with no communication lines with top class auditors and C/Ses? Think again.
I had the time, money, and TERMINALS to do ANYTHING I wanted on the Bridge; ANYTHING. Do you want to know why I didn’t? Because IT NEVER PRODUCES THE RESULTS ADVERTISED BY A LONG, LONG WAYS!!! It NEVER did. It was always a big scam.
LRH died as an individual BELOW in ability to those he called “Wogs”. He was even crazy when he died. He never applied his own tech to himself, and was NEVER, EVER an example of what his tech could accomplish. In fact, he was a guy in fear of others to the point of disloyalty. He abandoned his wife, betrayed her, abandoned his own kids, for Christ sakes!!! He pushed his own son to suicide. He couldn’t stand “failing” his father. He couldn’t face him; never could. Only his mom was decent enough to understand him.
LRH fooled us ALL with a system that DOESN’T work to any degree beyond a few releases here and there, but that NEVER EVER brings about ANY of the EPs advertised. Bring me just ONE, just one Scientologist with the ability to be exterior at will with full perception and mobility. Exteriorization is EXTREMELY easy to prove to others. PROVE that any Scientologist have that ability. Go ahead and prove it. You won’t because there isn’t such a Scientologist around.
I audited others for 5-7 hours, 7 days a weeks for SEVERAL years non-stop. So do not pretend to tell me what the Tech can do or not. I could teach you a few things. But my biggest win of all, was when I realized that Scn was nothing but an insidiously destructive cult, and LRH a crazy criminal bastard and one of the biggest liars that have ever been involved in the field of philosophy.
After I realized that, my life took a 180° turn for the better after having been failing in life for decades!!! Now I have PLENTY of money, a good life with real goals and games, and a REAL workable tech that brought about 100x in just a few months, all the “wins” combined from Scn in the last 30 years!!! A tech that cost me nothing at all, and that anybody could even learn from free, and even learn to apply it to themselves w/out any need for a counselor.
You could say that I started living again when I moved away from ANYTHING from Scn.
So be my guess, play all you want with “Standard Tech” and BTs for all I care. At least you are engaging in a “happy” suicide. Scn has no more than 2 years of life. This bullshit “Independent Church” that the corrupt Merrel Vennier is “building” won’t even get to second base. MS2 is dying at an exponential rate, losing members by the ton. Because the are dishonest people who don’t give a fuck about Human Rights. Because they are but a bunch of fundamentalists supporting a criminal who ruined thousands of lives. They are not “innocent” cult members under the undue influence of it all. They are accessories to crimes against human kind. And the lives of many of them are getting worse and worse, per accurate reports that I have from reliable sources.
Scn won’t survive another 2 years. I can guarantee you that. So dream all you want about a “Clear” society and a Scn world. It won’t happen at all. You are just delusional as I was; that’s all. And btw, you can insult me back. I don’t mind, and I won’t protest about it, rest assure. But, do you really think that anything you say can really have any effect on a guy like me? Think again.
Yes I wondered how long it would take before receiving such replies and again being labeled as (this time) a “zombie” and as part of a “quasi fascist fundamentalist” group (although I have no affiliation at all to M2), and even implying that I am doing OSA’s work for them now (when of course the opposite is more like the truth of this particular matter as I have pointed out)! I even begin to wonder with every quasi-fascist fundamentalist comment you make that you receive a nice little commendation from OSA in your (probably massive and gargantuan) Ethics files.
As to Torres it is the first I have heard of his’ “transition out” and I don’t give a hoot either way. And of course it was no surprise (to me anyway) as to who are making such replies either – running true to form and pattern, which admittedly is me somewhat sinking to the same level – but then, if I can be insulted right, left and center I do not see why I cannot shoot back a bit eh? You guys really should read a bit of Shakespeare, especially the line “The lady doth protest too much, methinks!”, which phrase, translated for zombies and members of quasi-fascist fundamentalist groups (of which you seem to be card-carrying members) reads better as the apt phrase of “the overt (again) doth speak loudest in accusation!”
Foolproof : “As to Torres it is the first I have heard of his’ ‘transition out’…”
But in which strange world have you been living, Foolproof? The first one you’ve heard that has transited out? Come on man, I thought that you was a regular reader of Scn related blogs. Hundreds have already transited out!!! It has been happening for decades!!!
Just a few years ago we had several pro-Scn blogs and websites. In PT there is only MS2 (criminal Merrell Veneer’s site is part of MS2). And MS2 used to have several readers and commenters. At least 20-30/regular ones, and they posted almost every other day. Now they have about 2-5 posters, and publish an “article” every 2 or more weeks, and this just recently as up to some months ago, they were publishing every 1-2 months. The same 2-5 posters; a real ghost town!!!
Now, you said that your IQ (you Scientologists are always so delusional about your abilities. I know cause I was like that myself when I still believed in the crazy son of the bitch, LRH-Con man Hunbbard) was among the top 10%, didn’t you? So smart man/woman (I don’t know your gender), what does the above data tell you? It tells you that “Scientologists” are losing interest in Scn at a speed a lot greater than it was just 2 years ago!!!
Mike stopped believing in Scn (he supported LRH and Scn when he first created his blog), Rathbun as well. Geir Isene, Karen, and a bunch of other well know ex supporters of Scn and LRH have been transiting out for decades, and PUBLICLY so. The “Comm lag” (to use the scientologese language you love so much) from a Scientologist who left the CofS after cogniting on the many abuses, and publicly supported Scn through participation in blogs, etc; to an individual no longer interested in Scn, is about two years. That’s what it took most of those individuals including myself; 2 years.
So your quoted comment at the beginning of this reply, is just another solid evidence of the delusional that KSW Scientologists are. I used to be like you just a few years ago, although I must confess that I was never that naive as you are.
In two years, give or take, you’ll be asking yourself how on hell did you ever believed in Scn and LRH. So enjoy your 2-year vacation at dreamland, and get yourself a good therapist, cause you are going to need it when you finally wake up from your hypnotic dream state.
Actually Espiando I did have a chuckle as to your use of the phrase “Millstone 2”, very inventive and as I say made me laugh. So well done for that at least.
And would “Millstone 1” then in your eyes be Miscavige’s church or the pre-Miscavige church? Your answer to that will probably be the fundamental (no pun intended) difference between your viewpoint and mine on the whole thing.
Hi Theta Clear
I believe most of us who have left Scientology have gone through various changes over time in regards to what we think about the whole damned subject. I have observed this in myself and in several others who have openly expressed themselves through this blog and other areas where Scientology happens to be the topic of interest.
I’m sure most of us eventually reach the point where we just get fed up with it all and wonder why we’re still bothering to even look at anything that has to do with the subject.
Do we really believe that anything we do or say is going to change anything? I can only speak for myself. Some days I do, some days I don’t.
Will the Scientology scheme continue after COB is no longer there. Who knows?
Crusade? I never looked at it as such. I’m just pissed off over allowing someone else to lie to me and take my money and I know that the guy who did it would like nothing more than to have all of us just shut up and go away. I don’t plan to.
Does COB or anybody else inside the church actually listen to what I say? Who knows?
It’s still fun and I would add, quite therapeutic, being able to express myself in the manner I do.
As far as Mike wasting his life doing what he’s doing; He’s the only one who can determine if that’s true or not.
I do know that reading his blog helped me crawl out of a deep pit of confusion at the time I decided to leave the church and I’m grateful for that. I have seen others express similar gratitude towards him so I figure what he’s doing is not really much of a waste of a life. I’m certain this is only a part of his life and he’s enjoying the rest of it just as most of us are.
Why do any of us (yourself included) continue to post here and on other sites? Maybe it’s because we still have interest in the subject.
I suppose Scientology will continue to be interesting to us until we stop giving it our interest.
I always enjoy reading your posts. They often spur me to look into areas I’d not yet considered as interesting.
Thanks.
“Hi Theta Clear”
Hi RB!
“I believe most of us who have left Scientology have gone through various changes over time in regards to what we think about the whole damned subject. I have observed this in myself and in several others who have openly expressed themselves through this blog and other areas where Scientology happens to be the topic of interest.”
Yes, I am quite aware of the phenomena involved. See my reply to Foolproof on that.
“I’m sure most of us eventually reach the point where we just get fed up with it all and wonder why we’re still bothering to even look at anything that has to do with the subject.”
You are right about that. You will too, eventually. :))
“Do we really believe that anything we do or say is going to change anything? I can only speak for myself. Some days I do, some days I don’t.”
No invalidation intended, RB, but this problem with the CofS and the crazy fuck DM, is a manifestation of humans’ tendency towards “Cult-think”. Scn is but one example of this phenomena out of hundreds that exist today.
I am sure that you and others here firmly believe that DM is the problem or the “Why”, to use Scientologese. But I assure you he is not. The ones that are being “abused” DECIDED to get “abused”, plain and simple. W/out their “agreement” (even if unconsciously so) the Undue Influence is impossible.
Those with the tendency towards group-think or Cult-think, will never ever believe anything you (or Mike, or Ortega, or , or, or) say about DM even if you give them an entire book of documented evidence!!! They will always think that you are just an SP making Scn and god-like COB wrong.
It is not necessarily the constant exposure to this blog or anti CofS/DM propaganda that get others to wake up from the cultic state. They wake up when they are READY to wake up REGARDLESS of the amount of exposure they got. The cultish tendency is a disease that has nothing to do with any particular cult or cult leader. Therefore, all these efforts to expose DM’s abuses do not necessarily have the impact and reach that you might think they have.
Realize please, that you (we in general as posters) are not educating people on cult phenomena as such. You are attacking an individual and an institution; a different action. The cult members will not necessarily listen to you, as they might feel invalidated in their beliefs. Only the ones who have ALREADY woke up by themselves – through whatever process (by having been subjected to too many abuses; by having been educated on cult phenomena, etc) – will listen to you.
I can give you my OWN example. My “awakening” didn’t happen because all the “bad things” I read about LRH/Scn or the CofS/DM. It happened AFTER I got thoroughly educated on cult phenomena with the works of Steven Hassan and Margaret Singer. After this education, I realized that I had been on a cult for the last 30 years of my life!!! I was TOTALLY in shock with that realization. I couldn’t believe that a person thoroughly educated on Science and Scientific methodology, could be SO naive. But the cult phenomena has nothing to do necessarily with education and the level of IQ. It has to do with pushing the CORRECT buttons of our weaknesses.
Bottom line, what you believe is a workable effort from your part, is only an amusing activity for ALREADY ex-Scientologists to have a good time with, and act as a “group therapy session” for those still under the effect of the cult in terms of past wounds. But an “Effective Blow” ? I don’t think so, my friend. Please do not take it as an inval. Take it as some food for thought.
“Will the Scientology scheme continue after COB is no longer there. Who knows?”
I KNOW, RB. It WILL continue, rest assure. DM is not the “Why” as much as you, Mike and most posters here, believe he is.
“Crusade? I never looked at it as such.”
It was not meant as an Inval, though I can see how it might have sounded that way.
“I’m just pissed off over allowing someone else to lie to me and take my money and I know that the guy who did it would like nothing more than to have all of us just shut up and go away. I don’t plan to.”
DM doesn’t care one bit about you and what you do or write, believe me. Are you going to hold on to a grudge for the rest of your life? Does that have even a purpose to it? He didn’t take your money, you gave it to him. He didn’t lie to you; you believed everything he said w/out questioning him nor Scn as a subject. Do not send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee, for ALL of us as individuals.
“Does COB or anybody else inside the church actually listen to what I say? Who knows?”
They just don’t care, believe me. Your posts are incredible and educational for the ALREADY ex-Scientologists who are ALREADY out.
“It’s still fun and I would add, quite therapeutic, being able to express myself in the manner I do.”
On that we have NO disagreements at all. It is “therapeutic” to YOU, but not for long. You’ll get overrun soon enough. Fun? Incredible so, you are a great artist indeed.
“As far as Mike wasting his life doing what he’s doing; He’s the only one who can determine if that’s true or not.”
But of course, that he is the only one who can determine that. I want HIM to think about it as I DO care about him. Why else would I have made such comments?
“I do know that reading his blog helped me crawl out of a deep pit of confusion at the time I decided to leave the church and I’m grateful for that.”
We ALL are grateful for that, RB. I have nothing but praise for Mike, the man with the courage of dozens of men. My hat is off to him. And because I DO admire him, I want him to have the best life he could have. And I am not sure if continuing involved with anything from Scn is part of an ideal life. For me, it isn’t. So I put some food for thought on the table for him.
“I have seen others express similar gratitude towards him so I figure what he’s doing is not really much of a waste of a life.”
You missed my point, apparently, RB. My comments had nothing to do with gratitude or lack thereof. It was a point of personal survival. It was about help, not about criticism. You know me better than that.
“I’m certain this is only a part of his life and he’s enjoying the rest of it just as most of us are.”
Perhaps so.
“Why do any of us (yourself included) continue to post here and on other sites? Maybe it’s because we still have interest in the subject.”
And may be, just may be it is because we STILL feel hurt and injured, and are seeking a way to “blow charge”. We are seeking, may be, for the absent acknowledgements; the CORRECT indication of the CORRECT Bypassed charge. And thus, we don’t want to let go. And the more we try to hold on to it, the less charge we blow, and the more enturbulated one gets, even if unconsciously so.
” I suppose Scientology will continue to be interesting to us until we stop giving it our interest.”
My point exactly! But why to be interested in it in the first place? Wouldn’t it be because deep down we still believe in some parts of it, and still hold hopes that it can somehow guide us towards “freedom” ? Wouldn’t it be because we still have not found a proper replacement for it, so that we can then let go of the rest of it.
“I always enjoy reading your posts. They often spur me to look into areas I’d not yet considered as interesting.”
Thanks RB; most kind. I enjoy your posts as well, VERY much. They represent the un-seriousness in a sea of craziness!
“Thanks.”
Thank YOU!
I blew the most mass when I quit Scientology .
random housecleaning thoughts: in scn we believed that everyone would eventually cognite. Every single person would get on the bridge. The bridge was the ONLY WAY. Lrh had ALL the answers. The ROUTE was mapped and all you had to do was follow it. He said it, we believed it.
We actually believed that eeeeeeeeeeventually…. everyone would go free. We were working to make sure it happened. We worked to make sure it happened for others and for ourselves. Some of us spent the better part of our lives working on this.
……
with……………..no clue……………………..
that we were a tiny tiny crazy thing in a great big world
that it’s all nonsense….
just every single bit of it
is nonsense.
all efforts were wasted, a fantasy, a dream, a mind-fuck
We gave our lives for lofty goals of an insane nature.
……….
I swear it’d be easy to be borderline suicidal after this. Either that…or just really quite calm and happy.
Hi secretfornow, I liked this comment.I was never borderline suicidal after blowing but I did a wrist dance in a candle flame to stop myself going to Logan Airport in late 78 when Boston GO/OSA were calling me to come back.After that Calm and Happy are two,points I steer myself toward or try to each day.XOXO
Morning Ann 🙂 I’m glad for your calm and happy. The wrist dance sounds awful.
I know of three suicides and one in particular was quite close to me. It was unfathomable at the time – there was simply no understanding it. Then when the veil was lifted for me and I dropped all belief, I actually understood. I could see it, I could see how someone might do that. I wouldn’t myself do it but I can see into that dark well.
Hi secretfornow & Ann B. I understand how it could feel so immensely disappointing to find out it wasn’t what was promised. You both put out a lot of effort and time, with good intentions, into something that you may feel some regret over. Can you find the good in it anyway? In the experience I mean, not the organization. Take whatever revelations or positive encounters you had and hold onto that, whatever makes you smile to remember. Then you won’t feel as if it’s all a waste. Any fun thing you did, any friendship you made, any day that you had something good happen to you, hold on to that memory. I believe that we learn from everything we experience, even if what we learn is that we don’t want to do that thing again, still it increased your knowledge-base. Thanks to you both for posting here and helping us to learn also. Love you! – T.J.
PS: Your goals of calm and happy sound really good! I strive for this daily. And to be a positive force for calm and happy in others lives as well, not always successful, always try though.
Hi secretfornow, Just found your post,thank you.Boy do I understand.I never went back to any of that darkness after my one step into it in 79-80.It is a dark well with no bottom,so I will never go near it again.I am so sorry for the loss of friends.Yes I have lost friends to suicide after cos services particularly on the upper bridge but it can happen anywhere when cos is in the mix.XO Ann B
Wow is about all I can say. and who the hell is Lt. Solange Padya?
So what has Miscavige changed then with regard to Solo NOTs? Anyone actually know? Unfortunately we are unlikely to find out as those who have read the changes are imbibing gallons of Kool Aid and won’t spill the beans, but unless he has simply stripped out commands or steps from the 2 main Solo NOTs procedures I don’t see what else he can have done? Actually there is nothing really that difficult with the Solo NOTs materials so I don’t see what the hell they are on about, unless Flag public are now so illiterate that they can’t read and the materials have been dumbed down accordingly. Perhaps one doesn’t now actually undertake any Solo NOTs auditing but just reports to the IAS and Idle Org Regges and after 2-3 years of doing this one is given a completion certificate?
“Perhaps one doesn’t now actually undertake any Solo NOTs auditing but just reports to the IAS and Idle Org Regges and after 2-3 years of doing this one is given a completion certificate?”
Now THAT would be far more humane than making someone hunt imaginary “thetans” for years.
Foolproof, that is what is supposed to happen. “Wouldn’t you just love to know what the difference is?” Then “Come back and re-do or start this action”. Yet, there are thousands of people who have already completed OT (whether they have dropped their body or not). What does this mean, that they really didn’t make it to OT because HCOB xx xx xxxx is missing? Possible, but unlikely. 🙂
Do you remember Margaret Supak? She was a Class XII at Flag before she landed a more senior technical post on board the Freewinds. I met her once at Flag. She is not so OK. She was having a discussion with some out ethics ethics officer that was imported from New York in the Division 3. I met both of them. That was a hot scene. And them Margaret Supak is sooooooooooooo……… on Source she told another OT VIII “Oh please don’t tell that the senior staff were gambling in the casino last night, they are not supposed says LRH”. That is great Margaret. And when do you get to finally do this, after OT IX? 🙂
Hi Lawrence,Thank you for your comment.<3 did I do that right? Lol meaning I liked it.xo
Mike, if you too want to be able to see “imaginary thetans” then do steps A-E and re-do the whole Bridge. Per the Esto Series, people with personal out-ethics pull in case and also have a drop in perceptions (in particular OT perception: i.e. that of perceiving “imaginary thetans” correctly). So auditing on Solo NOTs is not workable for persons who are out-ethics.
I assume this is tongue in cheek? Or are you seriously advising someone to do A-E?
Foolproof is serious. I’ve seen comments from him in the past that indicate SEVERE mental illness.
No no Mike (Rinder), Mike (Wynski) is correct, at least in the first part of his comment. Doing A-E (first step as I recall is stop committing continuous present-time overts) is a wonderful panacea for the “SEVERE mental illness” known colloquially as “MISSED WITHHOLD-ITIS” that Mike (Wynski) is suffering from. Now as most readers will know Mike (Wynski) is constantly, obsessively and compulsively (it would seem (to be fair – ha!)), and with vitriol, carpingly criticizing the technology of auditing and trying to persuade people that Scientology “doesn’t work”, whether the Grades or the OT Levels etc. – when he knows full well deep down that it does and which of course explains his constant ranting and assertions that it doesn’t. And this despite the fact that most readers or at least a good percentage of readers of your web site, will have received gains from their auditing and training, even in Miscavige’s pseudo-church and travesty. Now, why would someone be doing this? I mean if it doesn’t work then what is the point and what is he worried about?
It (A-E) also (eventually) cures the problem of “pot calling the kettle black-itis” or as us Scientologists know it as “the overt doth speak loudest in accusation” when he waltzes around your web site spewing his venom picking off and attacking people who are in any way enamored of the technology and the gains that they have had, and writing that anyone pointing out his constant criticisms (and the reasons thereof) has a “SEVERE mental illness”. I leave readers to judge here who has the “SEVERE mental illness” – even without all the bulletins and policies on this sort of thing, it is a matter of common sense anyway. I have noticed before on many an occasion other commenters who have taken him to task on this obsession of his and his aggressive stance on matters “technical”. In the non-Scientology world it would be called “OCD” perhaps.
And he, I believe he has stated somewhere, is a Flag-trained auditor. If so, Miscavige should Comm-Ev the people responsible for training him and for allowing an ethics case in the course room and to become an auditor, although the word “auditor” must be then used advisedly. So no, A-E is the correct indication here. One should also not get confused with the current Churches’ “political” mis-applications of (applying) A-E when it really is the correct indication.
This sort of thing also brings to light a point I made a while ago about people who are still in the Church reading this sort of lunatic nonsense and thinking to themselves “Christ, we’ve got it bad in the Church what with IAS and Idle Orgs etc. but when I read what some dudes are saying on Rinder’s web site then I think it is safer to stay in the Church!”
Sorry, but this is the sort of assertive know-it-allness that I find very unattractive – I know a lot of people assert their opinions. And everyone has a right to them. But I prefer the unvarnished “here is what I think based on my observation” (whether right or wrong) than the asserted “this is how the world/man/mind works and thus this is what is wrong with you, because L. Ron Hubbard said so.”
You completely lose me you start asserting that A-E “cures” anything. Apparently in your mind, anyone who is critical of scientology is not just “full of missed withholds” but is actually an SP and needs to be “cured” of his or her SPness by begging forgiveness of the IJC, repaying “debts” to scientology, doing lower conditions, making amends and retraining from the bottom up.
Good luck with that Foolproof.
You know that fundamentalist scientologists think YOU should be doing A-E, just like you think Mike Wynski should be doing A-E.
You of course reject that because you know you are a “standard” scientologist. They know for a fact you are a squirrel and an SP.
You are right, Wynski and scientology are wrong for the opposite reasons. But they think you are wrong and crazy.
Doesn’t seem like this circle jerk is going to come to an end any time soon.
Three different Mikes are going at it. Who’s on First?
I am.
I have simply replied to Mike Wynski’s statement about me that I have a “SERIOUS mental illness” by stating that I consider him to have exactly what he has stated about me and pointed out the reasons thereof. So he can state such insults and other constant criticisms to others about the technology without any rebuff from you on doing so, yet you rebuff my comment to him, but not his. He is constantly calling Hubbard “El Con” so if I called Mike Wynski “Mike NoWinSki” or “Mike NCGski” would you then consider that inappropriate? Basically he can criticize to his heart’s content yet when I point this out (once) and to the reasons for doing so this is unacceptable to you.
You really missed my point. But it doesn’t surprise me. And for the record I don’t think much of the ad hominem of MW is necessary or appropriate – as I don’t find it appropriate by anyone directed to other commenters.
Or, in other words, it seems from your reply that he is allowed a platform by you to spout his stuff constantly, but I am not allowed a platform to spout my stuff in rebuttal or otherwise, even if only once in this case and very rarely otherwise as most of my posts are not of this ilk.
As I said Mike, if you “want to do something about it”, then Wynski’s type of comment will only encourage those remaining in the Church to circle their wagons and man their barricades.
Did someone pretending to be me tell you you didn’t have a platform? As far as I know I haven’t censored you.
If you thin your comments would somehow be acceptable to those who remain in the church you are really deluded. They have been taught to hate you and everything you do.
Foolproof wrote: “So he can state such insults and other constant criticisms to others about the technology without any rebuff from you on doing so, yet you rebuff my comment to him.
Mike, from what I have observed, the above is often the case I haven’t seen that you very often rebuff a poster who has stated constant criticisms of the technology, yet you get a lot of that type of post. And with regard to exchanges, you have often interrupted them, choosing to address and rebuff the poster who is saying positive things, sometimes putting an end to the exchange – which is like censoring, isn’t it?
I’m not sure what audience your blog is mainly intended to reach at this point, but it seems to have changed from what it was in the beginning – which I thought was to enlighten Scientologists who are still being abused by the CoS.
You may be right. The asserted rightness of scientologists sbout everything tends to aggravate me more than it used to. I find it arrogant and pretty hard to swallow. As for the audience of this blog – who knows. I include what I am interested in. Who decides to read it I have no control over.
Mike: “The asserted rightness of scientologists about everything tends to aggravate me more than it used to. I find it arrogant and pretty hard to swallow.”
That is so true of many “anti’s” too, with regard to their asserted rightness about the basics of Scientology – which they often show themselves to be ignorant about. And this type of poster is far more numerous on your blog than pro tech posters – and they lower its quality with their juvenile and vicious mentality, IMO. I think it reflects badly on you, too.
Thanks your reply. I respect the honest answer, including about the purpose of your blog.
I think the difference is this (and this is of course a broad generality):
The “anti-scientologist” expresses their OWN opinions — it’s what they think based on their observations or experiences.
The “pro-scientologist” tend to express their views based on what Hubbard said. They act as if this makes them infallible and beyond criticism, just like they believe L. Ron Hubbard is.
This was my original objection — asserting that someone should do “A-E” – not because it makes sense but simply because it’s “policy.” It has never solved ANY problem. Ever.
There’s some truth to what you say about the “anti’s” thinking for themselves, but many of them are just repeating what they’ve heard others say – essentially the same as what you stated about the pro’s. Similarly, a lot of the pro’s no longer feel that Hubbard was “infallible and beyond” and simply base their views on their own experience – rather than going along with yet another “group think.”
But I did get what you said about your comment being a broad generality. And I see what you mean about what you wrote here:
“This was my original objection — asserting that someone should do ‘A-E’ – not because it makes sense but simply because it’s ‘policy.’ ”
Well said. Thanks, Mike.
Mike I would be quite happy if the target of my missive would just do the first step of “stop committing continuous present time overts”. I’ll let them off from the paying back of debts and humbly crawling to IJC and making amends etc. No, quite fine. Just that first step. Then we’d all be happy!
As a note to other commenters who took my A-E assigning of others literally I cannot of course enforce such as I am no longer anything to do with Miscavige’s church and of course – you shouldn’t take things literally!
You don’t expect people to take what you write as being what you mean? That’s a pretty odd statement. You didnt say to do “Step A” — and what are these continuous present time overts you are asserting he is committing? Criticizing? Name calling?
I don’t wish to jump into this discussion but only to comment on it.
It is very disturbing to be told to do A to E, Amends, or write to IJC, who is a phantom and doesn’t answer your comm. Especially when “it’s policy!” Is thrown in, with the magical notion that everything will be solved and will work out perfectly if you just grovel and do what the church says. Or worse, just do it anyway with no communication or direction whatsoever.
Step B of A to E is impossible. Here one has to admit that their ‘attacks’ were unfounded and based on ignorance. Now this would be degrading and would leave a person without a shred of personal dignity. Can’t be done, especially when the church takes zero responsibility and has no remorse for the shitty things it does to self, loved ones and all other people.
I am only speaking for myself. It makes me ill.
Hi Hennessy, Thank you for your comments,I agree 100%.Being told to do A-E in any form whatsoever turns my stomach in less than one second.It literally makes me ill.xo Ann B
I applaud you, Mike Rinder, for allowing freedom of speech on your blog.
The anti-scientologists are at different stages of decompression and are, some of them, angry at being duped by someone who professed to be their friend, who said he didn’t take any of the cherch’s money for himself and that he’d researched the OT case, etc. They’ve found out that he was a cruel man, duplicitous, a hypocrite and so on. How can anyone expect them to feel anything else but hate, chagrin and the rest. It’s a big shock to discover that everything you believed about this man was based on a lie.
I appreciate that your blog gives these people a chance to express their horror, betrayal, hurt, indignation, even their hate. I, for one, get more upset with the people who still bow and scrape to a proven conman than those who do not. The latter is more honest, IMO. I, myself, think the name L.Con most apt.
We’re each of us unravelling from a vile experience. There are some Koolaiders, albeit ex-members, still amongst us. They’re up in arms about their foe – those who spat out the Koolaid and threw the rest down the drain – and expect to be heard but not to hear from those who, IMHO, are far more enlightened and embracing true freedom – IMO.
Remember, for years, decades, no scientologist was permitted an independent an opinion, at least not allowed to express one. No one was allowed to voice any objection, indignation, disapproval for being robbed, ill-treated, disrespected or disagreement. Nothing! Now we’re out and there is no longer obstruction. We can vent and rant without restriction, without threat of punishment, for the first time. So be it!
I’d hate to see censorship on this blog. I like it just as it is. Those of us who are truly released from the cult, its “tech” and everything else, appreciate being able to express our views freely. I believe, as we settle down and have shaken off the years of garbage,of being and stripped of our hard earned incomes for a promise that was a lie, we’ll let go. For many of us, that time hasn’t come yet. In the interim, the anti-scientologists have a legitimate gripe and appreciate a platform that is sympathetic.
To the pro-scientologists, I look forward to your release. I mean this sincerely. The benefits of being freed from the shackles of thinking someone else’s thoughts and behaving accordingly, are so immense, so uplifting, words cannot fully do them justice.
I can tell you from personal experience, I am calm and happy – ongoing. Every day. I rejoice every day. It’s beautiful out here.
Hi Luvotoutthere. Good to meet your.Your comment is beautiful.Thank you.Always
In this instance I absolutely agree with you Mike. Solo NOTS is the worst thing Scientology ever conceived. Most amount of profit for the most amount of introversion. The most efficient way to betray anyone that was so determined to get that far. A hollow answer awaits anyone for their dedication.
I was thinking something along the same lines. I did the now, “OLD” ot vi and it wasn’t like it was hard or anything. we had all the gat drills and the mouldy packs… (literally, covered in the special Flag Florida mold that grew on the packs and had to be cleaned off by those unlucky enough to ‘forget to lock their case’. .. and it wasn’t hard.
It’s faster now? Oh, we don’t have to address all the various bits that might come up? Those don’t come up anymore?
yawwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
Whenever I read wins of “faster and easier” I just can’t fathom – don’t they HEAR what they’re saying?
The only thing I can think of is that instead of solo auditors learning all the ancillary handlings and bits and bobs they are going to get the Solo NOTs C/Ses to C/S them into the sessions/program when indicated and the solo auditors have to then learn them. Which might mean of course that the solo auditor has to report back to Flag to learn them as well? Whatever the streamlining means it smacks to me of a Technical Degrade or bordering on that anyway. And I thought GAT was supposed to arm auditors with all the necessary tools? Now it is being reversed seemingly. It did take a long time relatively for some people to complete the course (OTVI) but if the trips to the Reg or MAA or other Dev-T cycles whilst one was at Flag were left out that in itself would reduce the time spent there by over 50%! Unlikely though that those “little trips” would have been left out eh?
They just simply probably cancelled the arbitraries introduced with GAT 1 (3 swings FN, cancelling of blow by inspection) they probably returned to the original Nots pack of 1978. That’s typical COB’s action.
He is just concerned with money, it has to continue to be poured in his pockets. But its exactely the same than with big SP’s activity like big pharma. They seem to finally agree that such or such medicine is bad. When the public opinion is about to turn against them, they make a “discovery”, in agreement with what was said by whistleblowers. And regain some trust from public who don’t want to take the risk to go against the agreement.
Scientology as Hubbard feared i twould happen is into the hand of financial interest. They sometime have to serve their public. They dont care about the well being of anyone. Now pubic are blinded by the fact that there is probably an impovement due to removing arbotraries that Miscavige himself brought with violent out tech like 3 swings FN and cancelling blow by inspection. Invalidating PC’s.
I am seeing that now with doctors. They follow robotically stupid protocoles. We live with 90% idiots. Scientology when it was itself made us less idiots, and we had a sense of superiority which was warranted, then came Miscavige who ran scientology in considering only profits, only a few of less idiots people could see it.
FG HUBBARD created Int Management to be more concerned about money than people. So, I doubt feared it would happen when he PLANNED it to happen. LMAO
Wynski, I doubt you ever studied the subjecty of scientology. Hubbard was not money motivated, I’m sorry. He certainly had many flaws but not this one. Of course one need money to survive, but if you read so many writing of Hubbard you know what he wanted to tell. The idea that he wrote all of the tech just for money and power is totally ridiculous. Anti-scientologist are as stupid as kool aid drinker. Miscavige is just a wog pretending to be a scientologist. Most of the scientologist left in the church are completely idiot.
So many idiots in this world is a curse. I feel terribly bad about so much stupidity.
LMAO! Sorry FG but you are REALLY duped. ALMOST beyond belief. Hubbard admitted his money wealth motivation/psychosis. He created money accumulated as the HIGHEST Stat for Int management. NOT people helped, audited, trained.
Anti-scamologists are stupid? Okay, THAT is the most idiotic statement I’ve read in LONG time.
BTW, I am a Flag trained auditor, moron.
Really? How come you became so much against it? Auditing with a good comm cycle makes sense and gives wins, it is not regging for IAS, it’s 2 differents religions!
I used to audit a lot, I always found it a pleasant activity and my PCs also. I left auditing when GAT appear. Learning verbatim was not my cup of tea. And it simply was not scientology.
If you know the tech I can’t duplicate that you are so much against it.
You must have been through very dissapointing things. Myself I was, and I was ruined, and prisonner on the Freewind also, and lots of shit.
But that is Miscavige spirit.
FG asked regarding after I became an auditor, ” How come you became so much against it? ”
Because my IQ is quite a bit higher than road kill. 😉
Hi FG, thanks for that.
After some years of scientology reading i remained with a great doubt: was LRH motivated by money? I just could not figure out the answer (despite his assertion that to make money you should build a church, which he did along with gaining some billions). But now, thanks to your post, I am absolutely convinced that he was not. Thanks again for clarifying with such good evidence.
L. Fraud wasn’t motivated by money. He was motivated by ego, the same thing the Toxic Dwarf is motivated by. The money just happened to come along with the way their egos were/are stroked.
Their secondary motivation is humiliation. L. Fraud dropped out of college, was a failure at everything but penny-a-word pulp fiction (and barely succeeded there), and was a failure as a naval officer, a husband, and a father. DM, being a short asthmatic, was almost certainly the target of bullying as a kid, and that was probably one of the main motivators of him dropping out of tenth grade. For both of them, Scientology is a gigantic Fuck You to the world that they thought owed them a living and failed to provide.
Forged documents…
Staying in could be as simple as people want something to look forward to, something to hope for, and they don’t want to believe they have wasted decades of their lives. And some followers really believe in it.
Maybe there is more value to the last holders out of Scientology to be the last ones standing. The fewer people, the truer the believers…
“The last mass trials were a great success, there are going to be fewer but better Russians…”
Greta Garbo, Ninotchka
My question for awhile is if you achieved OTVIII let’s say in 1996. Do they tell you that you have to redo your OT levels and you are not truly OTVIII. How do they handle those situations
This just proves there can be infinite shades made from the same bullshit, just as there are infinite shades of idiots who buy it. There’s nothing really new about any of this this except the fact it’s so easy to see the Scientology lie factory in operation now, and you don’t have to have been a ‘Scientologist’ to see that. Time has not been kind to them, for what they peddle doesn’t work. There are simply those that like being lied to, it’s where they get their sense of belonging from, for they truly believe there is no truth to be found out in life and so choose the muddied up crap dished out by the Cof$ as their Holy Grail. The whole concept of ‘self-determinism’ is so absolutely foreign to a Scientologist, and the term ‘research’ is considered taboo.
Having spent most of my schooling years at boarding college and a longish stint in the military, imo there are also many shades of sheeple. I’m cynical about most things now, especially people who deal in absolutes and particularly religion and politics – they swim in half truths and vested interests but Scientology takes the cake for idiotism. Even if you don’t believe a word of it their contradictions in their behavior are mind boggling even at the most casual glance at their texts. One thing is written and they do exactly the opposite, cheer about it and then throw more and then more money at the highly successful criminal running it for the same lies repackaged over and over.
So much time has passed now that I can only consider a card carrying Scientology cult member as a mindless idiot and should not be allowed to play with sharp objects or matches. They have earned the right to be considered truly stupid and it must be understood that they will go to extraordinary lengths to hide the fact they are basically scared shitless of life itself! How in the world can you be cause over something that scares the crap out of you?
Honesty and the Scientology brand don’t mix!
Well maybe seeing all the customer flying away he finally decided to remove the arbitraries he introduced himself with GAT1.
All this lengthy scenarii, so boring. The infamous IG (n ?) where this little Dr Goebbels dare to explain how to audit Not’s, he is not even an auditor, nor a CS, nor himself on solo not’s). And this disgusting piece of squirrel explonation takes precedence on what Hubbard wrote red on white on the not’s course!
None of these cowards calling themself scientologists did see that it was madly “out KSW”, verbal tech, hidden data line etc… Any MAA with balls would have shot at sight the little bully. But no, they obeyed. Make me feel seek. Hubbard would have thrown him in the sea.
The little SP at this time created the 3 swings FN, and cancelled the blow by inspection. On not’s, blow by inspection means you just spot the entity and pfff…. it’s blown. And that’s it. That is by what LRH said the first way to blow not’s case.
This was taken off the Not’s course causing the downfall of OTs becoming overrun, invalidated etc…
Did this horrible little nazi reinstated original version of not’s, and then applied on a basis of read it, drill it, do it ? Somone knows ?
For COB: A bit like Nero fiddling while Rome (and Idle Orgs) burns!
On the other hand FG, the Solo NOTs materials are LRH procedures. AFAIK blowing by inspection has not been removed from Audited NOTs (OT5) and it actually never was part of Solo NOTs (OT7), per the LRH HCOB materials, so I think your other remarks are valid but BBI was not really a part of Solo NOTs. I don’t think that is what is being done here (using BBI on Solo NOTs) but then we won’t know until someone blows who has read the “new” stuff.
“,,,can only consider a card carrying Scientology cult member as a mindless idiot and should not be allowed to play with sharp objects or matches.” Lol! But too so true.
“They have earned the right to be considered truly stupid and it must be understood that they will go to extraordinary lengths to hide the fact they are basically scared shitless of life itself! How in the world can you be cause over something that scares the crap out of you?” – Very well put, indeed.
“Honesty and the Scientology brand don’t mix!” Touche! Even when you’re out…
Once again, the Pope is revising the bible and the people are cheering him on!
And to top that off, Hubbard in 1985 admitted he failed at the whole original Hubbard Bible procedures, he failed to rid himself of his most gnarly “body thetans” and he admitted general overall failure to Sarge in his dying months at the Creston Ranch.
The only hope there is would be what he did say to Sarge about going out in outer space to do (“research”) the Running In Circles Around A Star Rundown for awhile. Maybe that will fix Ron’s case, and he’ll be back. They dream, of course.
In the meantime Miscavige is treading water making up stuff.
It’s a cult operation pickle.
Have you seen the ending to The Path TV series, the final episode has some remarkably parallel to Scientology’s final scenario features.
This one made me laugh, Chuck. Back in the day, I recall a woman in Marin County, California, who was doing a lot of spiritual stuff and signed her name, then MSU. She then identified her additive as “Making Stuff Up”. Always got a smile from me.
Oh yeah, that’s when Ron asked Sarge to build him a suicide machine right? He hooked himself up to a Tesla Coil and fried Sarge’s E-Meter. And you just KNOW that Ron never replaced that poor man’s expensive E-Meter!
I think David Miscavige understands what is important to long time members – Hope. Re-releasing, re-vamping, re-organizing any OT level equates to hope for the lifelong member. Even for those who have done the OT Levels – who did not receive all of the pie-in-the-sky promises, now feel there is some hope. It also shifts responsibility for “no results” away from them, DM and LRH and places it on ________ (e.g. unknown SP, transcribers, printers, janitors, etc).
So, the “OT” will re-do the level yet again, still no OT powers, but by then DM will have something else to dangle in front of their faces. There is enough material in Scn that can be re-worked to keep this Shell Game going for years. Knowing full well OT powers cannot be obtained through Scn, and parishioners are unwilling to give up and want to believe.
Hi statpush,Good to see you.I do not doubt one bit that dm with all his moneybags can and will try and keep the OT ” material ” going as long as possible.This begs the question will anyone but the last half-dead still ins listen or care? Interesting questions on all sides.XO
“Contact your registrar … and find out what this means for you!” Um, you found a rich relative of mine who died and left me $50 million that I didn’t know about?
Hi Simi Valley, Nice to meet you.Way back in the 70s in Sea Org as ASR & letter reg I was ordered to do that numerous times.Of course some SO members regged me for money so they could complete whatever.Loke the good soul I was I said sure assuming I would be paid back.Flunk Ann! Always
Well; OT II or Or OTI were already that way, Under LRH…
Yet, if you were an auditor trained pre-GAT who delivered auditing outside the church you would have been labeled a squirrel, declared a Suppressive Person and attacked because what you were delivering was slightly different than the 100% on-source, RTC approved Miscavige version of Scientology, which has now been corrected to be correct and on-source.
Makes sense to me. Where do I sign up?
One success story sounds so much like another it is obvious they are not “original thought”. The wording is so similar in each one, the could easily be a book of mad libs and the people draw random phrases to,create their personalized story.
For a group that despises generalities so much, it is mind blowing that each of the ads and the success stories are fluff and generalities. Its one of the things that aided my escape.
Now that they no longer dare use names on the stories due to the mass defections, how long will it be before they simply assign prisoner numbers to each story?
Hi Valerie,Happy to see you.Your comment is so true.The success stories now are bits of absolute zero.I am so glad I left when I did,I would have been RPRed for sure because I always wrote mine my own way & style.Before I left in 78 they were still done that way but not for long…XO
Cluck cluck cluck!!!!
And now ladies and gentlemen my hypnotized subjects on stage will forage and root for little bugs! Watch and be amazed as normal people act and sound like chickens!!
Cluck! cluck! cluck!!! I can lift ashtrays, cluck! cluck! cluck!, we are saving the universe cluck! cluck! cluck! Let’s kill Farsecians, Cluck! Cluck! Cluck.
My clusters (maybe we should call em clucksters) are all blown.
Most of my clusters have taken on new bodies and got into the ice packing business. Some things are hard to let go of……………..Cluck cluck cluck!!
Thank you Ron for Bolivar and the GE is a family man. Now my sense of right and wrong is all f-cked up and I can harm Ron’s imaginary alien monsters in the guise of real human beings and feel like I’m saving this sector with no remorse!!!!cluck cluck cluck!!!!!!
It’s the good stuff in Scientology (the study of Ron’s paranoid and megalomaniacal tendencies) that sticks people to the glue of make believe.
Once the discriminating intelligence has been corrupted by going into agreement with things like “being reasonable”, “only Ron knows”, “only Ron found the way out of the trap”, “reasoned unbiased observation is anti Scientology” (the study of thinking you are becoming liberated but actually become intellectually ossified)………………
then the hypnotic magic trick is easy on the hypnotized subjects. Once a few basic thoughts have been agreed upon in Scientology (the study of equating constructive criticism with being a murderous-world destroying-evil demon)………………
Then the study tech becomes the delivery system for hypnotic commands.
And then being in the group becomes a rock solid reinforcement of these commands. The Scientologist then becomes self hypnotized. And being in the bubble becomes a place where being self hypnotized gets you validated and love bombed with group bonding. Yeaaayyy…….. group CLUCKING!!!!!
SCIENTOLOGY IS THE MAGIC TRICK OF:
1) finding initial benefit from basic truths (the mouse trap with tasty cheese)
2) seeing others become benefited by basic self knowledge (hypnotic reinforcement)
3) believing that L Ron Hubbard is the only person in the history of forever to ever find the “real” truth (hypnotic technique ala Altitude Instruction)
4) I can help Ron save the universe ( giving a megalomaniacal view of our ability to help)
5) here please take all my money so I can loose my mind
6) CLUCK! CLUCK! CLUCK!! Yum……. Bugs are so tasty.
Hi Brian, So Hapy to see your comment! On Fire as AlwaysXXOO you 2.
LOVE your post, Brian!
Ron’s brand of brainwashing is on autopilot. Dave may never realize that he is a dupe; NOT ‘above it all’.
A good Scientologist is a ‘hypnotized hypnotist’. And they don’t even see it.
FTW! How accurate.
Mike, I like your posts. You don’t beat about the bush. I’m not the sensitive type.
Thanks Dawn!
I agree brainwashed is the only way to explain it. A few years ago someone from LA kept calling trying to interest me in the basics. I told him I found it highly suspicious that all these books were transcribed incorrectly and that Hubbard apparently never noticed the errors and Miscavagie discovered it all those years later. The next day he called again and asked me if I tended to distrust people.
“No, acutally. Only hucksters.” LOL
Hi Doug, That would be a total hoot if the last question did not ring sour! XO
This is an excellent article and for me it just helps to point out how thorough the brainwashing is. Reading this article and the last one by Terra, I imagine Never Ins to be at a total loss as to “how could anyone ever believe … stay in…swallow…”
Even the Outs talk about what fools are those still in.
“The people still in are so delusional. It’s pathetic” LDW
Y’all don’t remember? Y’all are a bit too far away now you’re Animal Farming into Two Legs Good? There appears to be 20/20 hindsight and even saying that if this NEW stuff was going on when THEY were in, (‘puff puff) “Why, IIII would have SEEN RIGHT THROUGH IT! Don’tcha know.”
For me the brainwashing was a light switch. 100 percent. It was 100 percent in place, and then it was gone. While the the lights were On in SCN for me… my mind was fully capable of adjusting my thinking so that I could accept whatever the new reasoning was.
I could rationalize and adjust and still the cognitive dissonance. It was like stirring a pot of soup. Just mix in the new ingredient.
All of SCN set me up for this and reinforced it with every step I took. It’s built into the ‘tech’, the policy, the handlings, the ways.
And it did this without auditing. That’s a scary thought. I had pretty much no auditing and just did staff, staff training, admin training, bits of things for a couple decades before I did actual auditing. The brainwashing began with the first interview. The OCA.
The lights are out in Scn for me now. Switch is flipped and it’s a brand new day.
“Open your eyes to a brand new day”. haha. (it’s one of the SRD processes)
@Secret: it is easier to make fun of what we were than have compassion for those still there. The longer you are out, the harder it will be to convince yourself that yes, you really were one of those people.
The brainwashing starts on the comm course, with the TRs designed to teach you to ignore outside input and not react to your feelings.
The road out is gradual because there are so many pieces of mind shrapnel planted at such an early stage.
I had been out over 30 years when Kendra Bogacz Witcher (sp), was the first of dozens of people to call me in several hundred calls over a six month period in 2011. Even after all those years, pieces of my Scientology experience immediately crept into the conversation.
When she gushed about the Basics, I thought “they’re squirreling the tech”. I HAD BEEN GONE 30+ YEARS AND DIDNT CARE, yet this was the first thought was that. I knew enough to not say anything negative about it to her (seriously, why???). I also didn’t reveal my last name, they had an old one prior to my marriage, didn’t tell her they had my address wrong, and didn’t let her know any of my past scientology history except that I had once been in SO.
She didn’t mention Heber so I didn’t ask, when she directed me to the church website, I about threw up when I found that David Miscavige was the leader, or still even part of the group. My mind screamed “but he’s an SP!” My mouth remained firmly shut.
You learn at the very start of scientology that “communication is the universal solvent.”
The remainder of your scientology experience, no matter how long it is, is spent learning to not communicate or you will be punished.
Thank you for all of this.
I wonder… when it won’t be glued to the side of my face.
I wonder… if I could ever just forget about and move on. (not while spouse is still so IN)
What you said is scary. Even after 30 years, “they’re squirreling” – this speaks volumes.
Though, “I’m out”…
I’m feel like I’m still leaving. I feel like I’m leaning forward breathing in shallow bits of fresh air whilst pulling away from a vast dense oooze.
I hope I recover fully.
But somehow…I think I’ll always be recovering,…from what you said.. it may just always be. I threw away so much stuff – even things that aren’t scn but just …like, a clipboard I used, staples and pens.. Anything that seems to have the ooze I throw away.
But I looked at a pair of shoes I wore to the org…and I said, “no, I’ll keep you, you’re like me, you’re a survivor”. haha.
Hi secretfornow, Thank you all your points are well said.I have felt as you all these years later at times.Almost like a hypnotic trigger word kicks in and a small smoke of doubt wafts to me whispering Are You Sure You Did The Thing Ron would Not Want by Leaving? When that happened last year out of the blue I threw away the last small bit of Ron.Felt really good.Perhaps we will all always be recovering in some form, but we are also All Survivors, Heroes and just plain fabulous people trying to help others to either never get in or get out while they still can.XXOO
Secretfornow, I think I’m cured and yet I ask myself, why do I look at this blog, and Tony’s, every day? I tell myself I’ll stop when my relative is out. But will I? Only time will tell.
We may indeed take the rest of our lives to recover (believe I’m ninety percent recovered) but what does it matter? We know where we are. We’re honest with ourselves. I believe that counts for A LOT!
Having been a course sup in a mission for quite a few years, I can attest that TRs are NOT hypnotism nor “brain washing” any more than meditation is. It’s just a label which one can apply easily to “explain” what happens once one gets in. I’ve been out for well over 30 years and still daily use the comm skills I learned and taught. And I watched lives change with my students, changes they had been looking for and hoping to find. So wherever LRH found/stole the information, it was true and workable. What it may have become since I have no idea. But it worked then and does now and I’m damned if I’ll throw the baby out with the bathwater because of what others have come to believe. If there’s something there, cherry pick it! 🙂
everybody gets to pick whatever they want. You go ahead, I’ll not trample on your rights or decisions. For me, I’ve backed out of the whole she-bang, including words like “attest” and “comm”
Maybe later I’ll grab something back. For now … it’s a survival thing and it’s all been trash-binned.
“For me, I’ve backed out of the whole she-bang, including words like “attest” and “comm” – Me, too. I don’t talk the talk, don’t think the think. I feel great.
Perhaps LRH really is writing the new tech and communicating it to RTC. Maybe he really did come back and the church is just keeping it hush hush. I hope so, because the ethics officers, regges and public I have dealt with need their heads examined by professionals, and I don’t mean New Golden Age of Tech Phase II trained SOLO NOT’s auditors. One of these creeps actually came up to me and told me she gets an engram every so often to help her look pretty. Well then by all means go all out with your surgery and become drop dead chic! 🙂
🙂
Hi Lawrence, Your post above = perfect.XO
Conversation with Shahab Enrani ( Arab OT 8) “Keep your Blinders ON”
Answer to sheep question. None are Black Sheep!!!!
Cee Ohh Bee has now finally figured it out. It was hidden in the subtleties of El Cons handwriting.
Expert why finding by His Holeiness has finally determined that everyone has been OVERRUN ON SCIENTOLOGY!!!!
You must come in immediately and handle your BYPASSED CHARGE on having all your actions over the last 30 years overrun. Yes, this means you. And we will re-do your do-do until every last scrap of charge has been located, indicated and totally blown.
This may take 100 intensives or more so get with your registrar immediately to work out how you can avail yourself of this wonderful new breakthrough and you can again be winning at your full potential. And yes, you will quadruple your income in the process …… so no worries.
Coop, I’m pretty sure that if they do take advantage of this fantastic offer, they will all become billionaires…..
But only if you act as my FSM Newcomer. I wouldn’t know what to do with all that money I’m now going to make by postulate and how to handle all those people throwing themselves at my feet. Oh the power and the glory… wheee… sign me up! (again – the first couple of times were just warm ups).
Yep, this is the real deal I Yawn. This time it’s all in on the finances and the dedication. If you don’t turn over all your worldly possessions (just stinkin mest after all), cash in all assets and join the Ogres floating like air entrained turds on the high seas, well then you just haven’t made it ……….and you never will because you are such an obvious loser.
Don’t be a theety weety piece of hammered Daveshit when you can rise to the stellar heights of Ohhhhhhh Tea and reclaim your rightful place in Eternitee!
🙂
This same announcement made in great deatil about all the twists and arbitraries being removed from the OT Levels was already done in 1997 or 1998.
Well, as long as you put it that way! Until now, I thought that Miscavige dude was a straight shooter. Now I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps it’s a SMERSH infiltration?
Oh, I’m certain it’s SMERSH. The all powerful and great thetan, Ron, told us as much.
Hi Mike,Happy Sunday! All sheeple look alike to me as there is no leader just followers.Now if one sheeple would look up and out they might see the Sun by day and the Stars at night and flee!But looking is tantamount to Treason and must never be allowed.The only eyes the sheeple can look at are dm’s! Horrible image! Love U.
Annie B. I am thinking of you and your city of Baton Rogue. Stay safe!
Hi Chee, Oh lord what a day & night yesterday and moving forward.All here in shock.Walter hubby has been out of town all week so what with one suspect dead and possibly two running around BR with long guns and AR15s thank god for all our super cameras super locks lighting and security.My 17 year old watch cat Jade watched me good.I live about 15 min from Tiger Stadium where LSU plays in the south east part of BR.The shooting was in the eastern part but Interstate 10 runs not too far from us and that was blocked for quite awhile as law enforcement set out huge perimeter.I am sick of all the killing and I pray for all.Love You Always,
http://wonderopolis.org/wp-content/uploads//2014/05/Rubenvent1.jpg
This is the equivalent of updating a Rube Goldberg machine and touting it as finally fully streamlined and perfect. IT’S A RUBE GOLDBERG MACHINE. It will never be perfect or workable. It’s constructed from lies. Anyone who believes this is fully brainwashed.
That’s overly harsh on Rube Goldberg. His work is very similar to Heath Robinson and I’m pretty sure all their machines were perfectly workable, if somewhat ahead of their time.
LRH changed the Bridge (or Ladder as I like to think of it after watching The Path) so many times in the past it is shocking. Now, finally, DM got it right. What I don’t understand is, why hasn’t DM assigned LRH treason posthumously since LRH was out tech for decades. LRH obviously squirreled his own tech but I’m so glad the runt rectified the path up the ladder. It validates my knowingness and is extremely epic. What a guy!
At this point, CPO, I believe the toxic dwarf has contacted Hubbard at Target 2 and has ORDERED him to come back and face the consequences of his treasonous actions. I mean, how great of a leader is DM when he’s now the face of Scientology here, but, Target 2 to boot! We all are just so very, very, very lucky to have him as our leader. The kindness he shows to others brings me to tears…..
I feel a movement coming on OSD. It’s a crying shame I can’t share it with Cee Oh Bee!
Reminds me of the mid 90’s when they came out with new cans. Heavy, but sturdy. Selling them for over $300 a set.
Mitch Tallevi was ecstatically espousing their virtues. The reads are so much crisper; I can see them so much better. They are AMAZING. Everyone has to have them. OMG I can’t thank COB enough for this brilliant technical breakthrough!!!
I was using them and actually didn’t notice any friggin difference except they were heavy and had a nice, chrome finish. The price really ticked me off.
The people still in are so delusional. It’s pathetic.
Hi LDW, Thank you for this.Your comment made me laugh after my go-round with those little OJ cans back in the day! You would think dm would want 24 carat plated gold ones for goodness sake!Got to make those OT Levels sellable.All disgusting and I too feel the ones still in and putting up with dm are brainwashed.I held off on saying that because it is so hard to leave the cult,but now I think those in are so polluted with dm etc they don’t even know how to do that at all.In other words escaping is a concept unknown to them now.Always
I remember those coming out. The price was like, “Fuck you. This is an obvious rip off. What do you think YOU are going to do about it?” It was that plain to me… and yet it took me another 20 years or so before I was willing to really look at it.
But…..but….LDW, it has a nice chrome finish! You just can’t beat a nice chrome finish! Maybe you should redo your entire Bridge…..
I thought they were given a heavy plating of tin. After a few minutes in a pair of sweaty paws, they would start to show some pretty wild patterns on the surface.
I’m surprised you weren’t told that those sweat patterns/smudges were actually proof of charge being blown! Or that BTs can’t withstand the power of chrome plating, so they are powerless when you have those in your hands…..
I can just see Tom Cruise nodding his head in agreement and COB saying (later when Tom was out of earshot) ‘what a punk….that guy will believe anything I tell him’
Hi Gus, I love your post.xo
LDW, you can thank Steve Marlowe for those insane copper cans. Steve, who used to have a sign on his desk from Dave M. that said “Chief Butt Kicker” or some such.
They did not have nickel or chrome plating, it was regular tin. Just really thick tin, from dipping the copper in molten tin baths. This was kind of an attempt to go back to the old Campbell’s Soup tin cans of the 50s that were actually dipped. Modern cans have a really thin tin coating that is electroplated on.
It goes back to the cans that used to be made for LRH back in the Apollo days. Andy Yarrow, a great machinist, would dip them in tin and then use his lathe to make a thin, perfectly smooth layer of tin. I am not sure if Andy used copper or just ordinary tin cans to start. But his carefully crafted beautifully polished cans gave rise to the rumor that they were nickel plated, and got me in big trouble when somebody at Flag started selling “nickle plated cans, just like the ones Ron uses!” Part of why I got RPFed in ’83 and ended up at Gold, too long a story for right now.
Steve was a super audiophile with the idea that he knew all about electronics and sound. In fact he had a tin ear from listening to music too long with the volume turned up too far. No matter what was sent to him for critique or “fixup” he would always say he “added a bit of air” meaning cranked up the high end. He couldn’t hear anything above about 6 kHz so he always cranked it up. And his knowledge of electronics was limited to usually being able to identify the power switch. No idea of the difference between a Volt and an Ohm.
But around Gold they used to say “If some is good, and more is better, then too much ought to be just right”.
When Steve got involved with meters and cans, of course the most important thing to him was the conductivity of the system. In vain we tried to gently explain that a difference of .002 Ohms was not significant when you are measuring something around 5,000 to 12,500 Ohms. Gently explained errors in judgement soon became shouting matches and threats of RPF assignments so for the most part Steve got his way.
He developed the thick copper cans with thick tin plating that were so horrible in the mid 90s. A normal person cannot hold them in the air, you need a pad to rest your hands which then gives you body motion reads. And they were cold no longer how long you rubbed them or held them. The only way to use them was to put them in special can warming bins or blankets and take them out only at the start of session. And of course they are ridiculously expensive, thick copper and a special dipping operation at an industrial coating place in LA doesn’t come cheap.
Steve was involved in the “Mission Holder Massacre” and was close to Dave in the early 80s, then he got in trouble. He was twinned with Jon Horwich (Diana Hubbard’s former husband, father of Roanne) for a long time on the RPF and really messed up poor Jon. He went from being in CMO GOLD to various posts and on the decks all through the 90s and finally got offloaded in the early 2000s I believe. He is one of the four that were awarded a special personalized Quantum e-meter for the Quantum/GAT I evolution by Dave M.
Thanks Bruce for the rundown on the cans. I was the camera chief at gold when Andy was working on the cans project. I miss Andy and always wondered what became of him. He developed tools that we needed for filming in the 80s that were later being developed in the real film industry years later. Andy was way ahead of the curve and produced wonderful products. He was a bit of a mis fit in that he lived in his work trailer and kept his own schedule. I hope he went on to live a great life that he deserved!
Hi Tom, long time no see. I don’t know what happened to Andy. I know he got into trouble after Hubbard gave him a new antique lathe and he just left it in the garage. But that was in the late 80s. I don’t remember seeing him around after that.
Andy is the one who is shown pretending to paint in the “Aesthetics” section of the old “Tone Scale” and “Tone Scale Drill Film”.
He had a trailer that he lived in, and had all his tools there. It had a bed mounted on wires, so he could activate a motor and pull the bed up out of the way while he was working.
Nobody was friendlier or easier to work with, but he was such a perfectionist that sometimes it took forever for him to actually get something done. I think he was “R Machinist” or something like that, the way Dan Swanson was R Artist and Barry Stein was R Architect. Ron’s Meter Repair or “RMR” was Marc Ferreira.
Hi Bruce, Fantastic to meet you.I archived your comment on the cans! Priceless History.XO
Thanks for your reply Bruce. Andy was my junior in the camera department. He changed somewhat after the passing of hubbard. You could tell that he lost most of his purpose for being around after hubbard was gone. Like most people at Int in 89′ and 90′ he just left in the middle of the night.
I’m SO glad Andy got out way back then! Really neat human being.
OMG! I remember Andy’s mechanical bed that would raise up to the ceiling of the trailer during the day. If Steve M. was so worried about resistance why didn’t he order the cans done in silver. He always was a screaming idiot. Didn’t he get busted for forging an El Con doc?
I’m not sure why Steve Marlowe got busted but it probably has something to do with being a threat to the Dave Miscavige takeover.
We tested silver plated cans, gold, nickle, nothing works better than good old soup cans. Tin over steel. They are called “tin cans” but really they are mostly steel. Pure tin bends too easily.
There is an advice where Hubbard said “tin emits a tinny note that keeps the preclear in PT”, a statement that is truly bizarre on reflection. Doesn’t the auditor want the PC to go out of PT down the track to find his engrams etc.? And it is true that tin emits the “tin cry” when you bend it, but we hope the PC is not so upset that he bends the cans to make them cry just to get back to PT.
It all seems so different now, after a decade out of the madhouse. When I was in these kinds of pronouncements were accepted as dogma and the job was to figure out how they could be true and revelatory. Twist your brain into a pretzel to make a crazy idea make sense.That is probably what is happening to the “still-ins” except for those who read this blog.
Thanks Bruce. I was just referring to silver as the lowest resistance metal. I have no idea what quality El Con was looking for ( I guess “tinny”) I wouldn’t use silver plated tin to test it though.
Thanks for the insight Bruce
Mike, you quite correctly ask, “How many times can Miscavige sucker these idiots into buying the bs that “this is now how LRH intended.” ?”
I finally figured out why that strat has been so effective.
Situation: Scamologists do the bridge as per El Con. They do NOT get the gains El Con promised (because El Con set up a criminal scam).
So Davie can come along and say, “The reason you didn’t get the gains El Con promised is because it wasn’t (delivered, written, implemented) as El Con said.”
Therefore I have fixed that and now you can REALLY ( a la Charlie Brown kicking the football) get what El Con intended!”
I don’t think this announcement will start a stampede of failed or failing OT III to V cases to Flag. It is more likely to be viewed as an advertisement that they certainly don’t know what they are doing.
Quite correct Robert. A stampede requires a LOT of people/animals. There are hardly any people left in scamology.
Mike, I guess that will be the only possible answer: brainwashed.
On the other hand AOs are now the next ones to start collapsing and somehow Miscavige has to seize the last threads of deception and abuse to herd the few sheeps left wondering around.
This reminds me of the music the Titanic combo played when the water started seeping into their violins.
“Nearer My God to Thee” was supposedly the last song played, could be renamed in DM’s honor “Nearer my Commodore to Thee”.
ill never understand how these people can keep the blinders on for so long. as a never in, I just cant fathom it… thank you mike you are part of my morning news ritual keep up the great content!
When you’ve been beaten down, invalidated, criticized, slapped, yelled at, made fun of and told you’re a DB, for years if not decades, the sheeple just put on the blinders and do what they’re told….All looking for that non-existent state of OH TEE. Seriously, can this get even sadder?
Yep, it can sadder. That Venus train ticket we bought is probably a scam too, you can’t have a train in maintenance for that long surely?
when your husband and father of your child tells you very seriously and sadly that he’s cognited that he’s a db and that you should leave him… and he’s very very serious about this….. it’s a day that will live in your mind forever. The concept of “db” is E-V-I-L. (ps, he’s still a dear friend, never ever abandoned despite the travels of life and things)
Geezes Secret… that’s a horrible and very sad occurrence. I hope he comes around and sees the error of his thinking, Negative cognitions are not cognitions!
Oh yes, not to worry, this was many many moons ago. He’s been happy and good and out for decades. 🙂
As a staff member I had often heard people slandered with the epithet, ‘DB”, uttered in complete contempt. I always inwardly recoiled when hearing it.
When you deconstruct the term and really examine the altitude, arrogance and lack of compassion held by those who sneer and hurl the label … I think you find evil.
For all of his work and writing purporting to save souls, hubbard was a vicious SOB.
Just how many “phases” will there be to this GAT? If this wasn’t so damn sad it would be laughable. Sigh…..
DTRH,
The number of Golden Age of Tech (GAT) is as long as public buy’s into it.
Theoretically endless but like Fast and Furious sequels, they last as long as Vin Diesel
keeps showing up for the next one.
GAT 5 or 6 will end with the Gulfstream Seneario, D.M. escapes in a Gulfstream Jet
to South America with gym bags of money and documents.