It was a rough night for Dear Leader.
First, Going Clear was presented an Emmy Award for best documentary, best director and best writer.
Bam.
Tons of media coverage about it. But I loved the quote at the end of this article:
Regarding a possible followup, Gibney noted, “There’s a lot more material already that I’ve received, more to come out — and so far the IRS has not revoked its [tax-exemption] protection so there’s a lot more to be done.”
Alex Gibney is a REAL champion of human rights — not because someone handed him a certificate that says so after he handed over some cash to them.
He has the courage to stand up and speak out loudly about abuses and refuse to be bullied into silence. He is a national treasure who should be widely and uniformly lauded and supported.
So too Lawrence Wright.
And also HBO, who had the courage to back this program and other similar docs (watch CitizenFour if you have not already done so – it is on HBO On Demand) to expose rotten things in society that should not go unnoticed. HBO has become a powerful and important voice for social justice in the US and the world. Kudos to Sheila Nevins and HBO Documentary Films.
And then on top of this, Joe Childs has a new piece about Jim Jackson and corporate shenanigans inside scientology in the Tampa Bay Times Sunday edition.
What is MOST remarkable to me about this story is Miscavige’s desperation to try and discredit Jim Jackson.
Jim Jackson was not only the hand selected accountant that did both Hubbard and Miscavige’s personal tax returns, he IS AN OT VIII.
Yet the church is trying to “dead agent” him by claiming he has “memory loss.” So I guess this OT VIII didnt achieve an end to amnesia on the whole track, in fact, he didn’t even achieve it in this lifetime according to the church (a neurologist who tested him says his memory is perfect…)
It really sucks to be Miscavige today…
Really.
And things are only looking worse in the future.
Mark Marco, If you want to get something done you need to realise that the current congress (leadership) hates the UN. So, that’s a non-starter. The PotUS is lame duck. So the only way to get the IRS to move is by making it worthwhile to Obama. How? Wait ’till Obama backs the next Dem PotUS Dem candidate then head to K Street to get hooked up and kick in enough millions to the right PAC and you’ll have you’re IRS invest.
If you don’t do it that way it won’t be happening anytime in the next few years.
OK, John. Thanks for offering an alternative.
Three hurrahs for Gibney , Jackson and Wright !!! ; three heroes at different categories.
Gibney is not only a Human Rights protector, he is an incredible balanced individual free from any “Human Emotion and Reaction” on the subject, which explain his unbiased attitude on this matter.
Jackson is an idealist , but very loyal to his beliefs ; something rare in this “modern” world.
Not to invalidate any of them in their unique and different method to address the CofS dilemma , but from my perspective , the goal that both are seeking : the revoking of the Church’s tax-exemption status, and the removal of DM by high ranking board members based on corporate law, is not an attainable target for various reasons. This dilemma needs to be addressed from other angles, and I’ll explain myself.
First, I am no lawyer in any way, shape or form ; so this post is solely based on my own research into this, and on my own intuition. It is only an educated opinion and nothing more. Real experts on this matter should judge the workability or lack thereof of my assertions.
After the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” (which does not legally bind any country that agreed to it by signing it) , and the creation of the many International covenants (which DOES legally bind any country signing it) that resulted from it ; many countries around the world started their own analysis of their own Human Rights documents and laws.
Part of those revisions of Human Rights issues, was the “Freedom of Religion” aspect. Many attempts to “correctly” define “Religion” were attempted by many hired scholars experts at religious matters. In one hand, we had many emerging cults insidiously brainwashing others into strict and harmful dogmas for their hidden agendas that included power and money. In the other hand , we had many world governments attacking such cults and crossing the line of “Religious Freedom” in their attempt to protect others, as happened in Victoria, Australia in 1965 with the official banning of Scientology for almost a decade after the famous “Anderson Report”. The High Court of Australia was “forced” to accept Scn as a Church (as a religion) in 1983 , some “Victory” the CofS boasted a lot about , even when the opinions accompanying the court decision were extremely negative to the CofS.
I’ll quote some section of the ruling (together with the opinion of some of its judges) so that my point can be understood :
“The High Court of Australia in 1983, in Church of the New Faith v. Commissioner Of Pay-roll Tax. The court ruled that the government of Victoria could not deny the Church the right to operate in Victoria under the legal status of “religion” for purposes of payroll taxes. All three judges in the case found that the Church of the New Faith (Church of Scientology) was a religion.
Justices Mason and Brennan said:
“Charlatanism is a necessary price of religious freedom, and if a self-proclaimed teacher persuades others to believe in a religion which he propounds, lack of sincerity or integrity on his part is not incompatible with the religious character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers.”
but that:
“The question to which the evidence was directed was not whether the beliefs, practices and observances of the persons in ultimate command of the organization constituted a religion but whether those of the general group of adherents constituted a religion. The question which the parties resolved to litigate must be taken to be whether the beliefs, practices and observances which the general group of adherents accept is a religion.”
Justice Murphy said:
“Conclusion. The applicant has easily discharged the onus of showing that it is religious. The conclusion that it is a religious institution entitled to the tax exemption is irresistible.”
and :
“The conclusion to which we have ultimately come is that Scientology is, for relevant purposes, a religion. With due respect to Crockett J. and the members of the Full Supreme Court who reached a contrary conclusion, it seems to us that there are elements and characteristics of Scientology in Australia, as disclosed by the evidence, which cannot be denied.[45]”
Wilson and Deane said:
“Regardless of whether the members of the applicant are gullible or misled or whether the practices of Scientology are harmful or objectionable, the evidence, in our view, establishes that Scientology must, for relevant purposes, be accepted as “a religion” in Victoria. That does not, of course, mean either that the practices of the applicant or its rules are beyond the control of the law of the State or that the applicant or its members are beyond its taxing powers.”
“The High Court of Australia restored Scientology’s tax status in 1983.The High Court’s decision, dismissing the earlier judgements, now serves as the current precedent for defining religious groups.”
So this ruling clarifies and shows the way many courts around the world analyze this “religion angle” when deciding what constitute a “Religion” and what doesn’t. It should be clear enough that it has nothing to do with the harmfulness or lack thereof of the beliefs of the alleged religion , or with the cult(ish) nature of such beliefs. It has to do with the “rights to believe in” of the participants themselves ; that’s what all of this is about in the end. And one can’t punish anyone just for being stupid and cult(ish) about things ; THAT is also a violation of their Human Rights as illogical as it may sound.
No government , no court of this world is going to mess around with Scn’s religious status ; not even the “mighty” USA. To do so will only create, from their perspective and mine as well, a VERY BAD precedent which can be used by the unduly for witch-hunt. So let’s just stop dreaming about that ever going to happen.
In order to revoke Scn’s tax-exemption status a high court would have to rule against it being a bona fide religion , and that isn’t going to happen , rest assured, no matter how much bad propaganda it gets.
Jackson’s “strategy” is unworkable as well as he is starting from a wrong assumption : that Scn is true and workable in all its aspects, and that “standardly” followed doesn’t represent any harm for the individual ; something which is very easily disproved. It is a “solution” that becomes a problem in itself due to Scn’s cult(ish) nature. The result can be less suppression for its parishioners, I can grant that, but free will and freedom of thought will STILL be prisoners of strict dogmas and authoritative approaches to knowledge.
The real solution to this dilemma lies in the correct use of Public Relations and Publicity ; the only two weapons that have worked so far. That strategy has taken the form of blogs like this, Marty’s, and many others. It has also taken the form of books such as “A Piece Of The Blue Sky” , “The Mind Benders” , “The Scandal of Scientology” by Cooper, “The Bare-faced Messiah” , Wright’s book , and many others as well. It has also taken the form of News Media special reports and interviews , and recently, special documentaries like Gibney’s. The no longer seen “Letters of Independence” posted at different blogs, specially here and at Marty’s some years ago , were also a great tool. All the mentioned methods have been workable to a greater or lesser degree, some more than others. They all fall in the category of Public Relations and Publicity.
It is my opinion that this is the right direction to take to handle the CofS and Scn’s cult(ish) nature. The destructive parts of Scn’s policies may disappear, but the philosophy itself won’t, just as Christianity didn’t. So all these attempts from many Anti(s) , including dear Alanzo are doomed. Christianity used in the past many suppressive practices which even resulted in thousands of deaths , but here is Christiany still existing and being practiced by millions 2 to 3 thousand years after. Why? because there is truth in Christianity and so in Scientology as well whether the Anti(s) see it or not. Scientology WILL continue to be practiced decades in the future. And the more we insist that others just throw the baby out with the bath water the more others will hold on to it ; I’ve been through that with others enough times so as to consider that a fact.
So what do we do? How do we handle this dilemma? We ATTACK only the parts that violate Human Rights, and leave the rest alone. People have a right to believe in whatever the hell the want to believe , and even have a right to be silly, stupid, and cult(ish) about beliefs. That has been part of humanity since time immemorial. But we can keep on making others know how the CofS violates Human Rights, and we can show others the destructive parts of Scn, and show them as well all the lies about LRH.
But we must only communicate FACTS and not personal opinions ; we must only expose that which we can prove and document , and do it w/out any Human Emotion and Reaction whatsoever ; with no emotional attachments.
The power of coordinated efforts among people is something grossly underestimated. Millions of people united with a common and agreed upon purpose, put and end to a suppressive regimen at Egypt in the 25 Jan Egyptian Revolution . 3 years ago. Whether or not some might consider that event with parts that also violated the Human Rights of the supporters of the president Hosni Mubarak (which is actually true) is not the point ; the point that I am trying to bring home is the incredible power of coordinated pacific protests. We , Scientologists , Anti(s) , Ex(es) , Never-ins could do just that as a big internationally coordinated effort. But we must first AGREE on strategy.The strategy can not contain any violations ,either verbally or in action ,of the rights of others to believe in whatever the hell they want to believe in ; it must contain only facts that can be documented and proved ; it must contain no emotional attachments and no Human Emotion and Reaction. It must be very high toned and professional. It WILL attract the media world wide which it the TARGET. It will inspire others to do the same.
Then we can use the tools available to us to present a case against Scn at the UN Human Rights Commission. A LOT of sworn affidavits will be needed , expert lawyers to file the complaint , and a LOT , LOT of willingness , courage , and persistence. I believe we can make it. We’ll be attacking Scn as an institution that violates Human Rights , and we will get that commission to issue an official opinion. he opinion will not be about whether Scn is or not a bona fide religion ,but whether or not Scn and/or the CofS violates the rights of others.
This can happen with enough willingness from others. I am more than ready if others are as well. Your choice.
Best regards ,
Peter
Go for it Peter. The more people doing something the better. You should get yourself organized with a blog and a website and roll with this. I think it’s a great idea. I will do what I can to support you.
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate your support and wise advice. I’ll be ready to launch the strategy in a “Time Machine” of aprox. 6-8 months. I’ll be contacting you for details at some near point in the future. Thanks for the advice and willingness.
Best regards,
Peter
H Peter. Firstly, what a wonderfully concise, accurate and thoroughly well researched ‘article’, in itself.
What strikes me as unusual, in your special approach (not entirely unique, since having seen this in L. Kin, and a very few others), is your unwavering capacity, to embrace the workabilities of Scn, the subject, while having the good grace to put your case across, all the while showing a sensitivity, and (mostly, LOL) respect, for the reader/s to whom you are addressing the content.
Perhaps, if I could add anything at all, to your commentary, that would be the need FOR OTHERS to include, (imho) the singularly most important, yet (widely), overlooked ‘ tool’ of all;
— The capacity to “differentiate” –( to facilitate the end goal of ‘duplication’, of course).
“Duplication”, (Which I’ve already covered in two separate blog articles,)
constitutes the essence of any any/all communications and life itself.
Good chatting with you, Peter. Looking forward to your progress. 🙂
ARC, Calvin.
Thanks for the validation and warm words, dear Calvin ; most kind. Sorry for long comm lag in replying.
Seeking to keep a correct balance into things is never an easy thing, but we must always try to do our best at it.
The eternal dilemma of the workability of Scn or lack thereof is a dead end with no apparent VFP in mind, but mostly an insistence in “being right” from both extremes of the opposed views. It is a philosophic dilemma like the one about “right and wrong” as BOTH are based on individual judgement , experience, and subjective reality.
What is wrong for me is not necessarily wrong for others ; what has helped me has not necessarily helped others ; these things are very subjective and personal.
From my experience , Scn has hundreds of workable parts regardless of whether or not LRH actually discovered those principles, or if he just compiled them, and put them into useful methods. That Scn DOES has workability in many ways should be an extremely easy to see fact , but immersed in the BPC of it all , many ex(es) and anti(s) easily Not-is the obvious.
I mean , one can produce the same results with 12 or less hours of Bk-1 auditing what takes months and even years with other therapies. I know this for a fact as I have thousands of well audited hrs of Bk-1 under my belt with excellent results every time.
I can alliviate (read well dear posters, I didn’t say cure) almost any illness and injury. I have done just that for hundreds of hrs, and many of those hrs were with non-Scientologists. Assists is a very workabke set of processes.
I have helped my own dear daughter to achieve academic excellence for her entire 8 years of study by just using the Study Tech (which is not LRH’s original in any way). By using the principles in which that piece of Tech is based upon, I have progressed quite a lot in my studies of Science and Math to such a degree that I can isolate even the errors that many discoverers committed in their analysis of their experiments and mathematical equations.
By using the principles behind the theory on the Overt-Motivator with its consequences, I have turned very bad situations into ideal scenes.
By using the principles of Help Processing as a Solo-action,, I have handled long out-ARCness situacions with some terminals, and turned that relationship into a very friendly one.
By using the principles of Listing and Nulling, I was able to as-is a VERY chronic situation that had been ruining my life.
And I can probably write a hundred more of such wins. And is anyone to tell me that I am just being delusional, and that such wins is the result of my imagination ? I don’t think so. I am a very competent individual and observer ; I am not the Theetie Weetie type.
Can Scn produce real Clears and OTs as advertized ? NO ,IT CAN’T. Are all those claims from LRH true ? No, I am afraid they aren’t. But for me, even w/out those claims, Scn is superior than most therapies and I know a LOT of them.
I don’t know for others as I can only speak for myself, but in my hands Scn becomes a work of art.
Is Scn perfect ? Not by a long, long ways. Is there such a thing as “Standard Tech” in Scn ? No, there isn’t. Is Scn destructive as well ? Oh yes, VERY.
Was LRH an Operating Thetan ? In his dreams may be. Was LRH an humanitarian ? That would be an insult to true humanitarians. Does Scn has all the answers to life ? No, it doesn’t ; not by a long ways.
Can Scn be rehabilitated ? Oh yes, IT CAN, and VERY easily so. Actually SCN can be rehabilitated with Scn itself. But ONLY, ONLY by individuals totally de-PTSed of it. Only by high toned individuals with an incredible understanding of Human Rights. No fundamentalist, KSW supporter can ever be able to even see what’s wrong with SCN. It is totally over his/her head. ONLY if we understand that Scn is a cult can we then be able to erradicate from it its destructive parts.
And THAT, is one of my goals ; To rehabilitate Scn. Not to throw the baby out with the bath water. But if we can’t even confront when others utter critical comments about Scn and/or LRH, then we have a VERY, VERY long road ahead , and we are STILL under the influence of its cult(ish) nature. And I want free people and not slaves of Authority.
TC
Duplicated, understood & appreciated, Peter. VWD 🙂
Theta Clear, Calvin, I am with you 100%. You very eloquently and succinctly explained what the problem is and how to solve it. And you’re right that those on each side, the KSWers and the Anti’s, as long as each tries to not-is the other’s reality on things, nothing good will come of it. We need to be able to Confront to bring about needed change. That means confronting that some wins can be had and the tech can be rehabilitated. It also means confronting that LRH wasn’t perfect and confront the critical remarks too. I look forward to your blog and ideas on this in the future. To utter a now trite phrase, “something can be done about it.” But you made me feel that it really can.
Cindy, thanks for your warmth and ARC. I can assure you, that you too , make it all worthwhile! 🙂
Remembering back to that amazing drill TR-0, (first done in 1970, LOL) brought into focus, the necessity of confront, (as you pointed out above).
I have instinctively embraced that lesson, ever since. So much so, that It’s now a natural part of my daily ‘grind’ (as the principal minder of our large business complex, of which I am part owner), to remove the criminal elements, who threaten/intimidate, even rob, persons entering/ leaving our complex. As for cops? Never respond in time! (When you most need ’em!!)
But one comes to realize, that only a relatively few souls are capable, or willing, to intervene, when no one else will. I am constantly disgusted at how few citizens, will step up to the plate to assist — when violent people CAN be subdued,– with just a little extra muscle power!
You simply cannot be effective, without having the necessary confront/tools to deflect/handle danger, when it surprises/corners you.
I must recount the time, when I saw my own daughter, (a pint-sized, fearless policewoman), deal with a mildly inebriated, 6′ 2” lout, who began swearing at/taunting her. One firmly uttered, (totally ignored) warning later, this dude was flat on his face, on the tarmac, spitting blood, with a well placed knee in his back, as she cabled tied his his hands harmlessly behind him! 🙂
— And the message here, Cindy? — ANYONE can protect themselves from harmful individuals, by realizing that one can at least LEARN some simple, vital skills/techniques, so.as to be able to act quickly, for survival.
Well practiced, instinctive screams, as you well know, CAN, and DO chase an assailant away. — IF they’re loud enough!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Good chatting with you – try to keep it “light”, stay sharp, — stay safe!!
— Calvin. 🙂
Ok. THIS is what I love about working with people who are trained in the Data Series and the PR Series. Step 1 – see the outpoint (with the Data Series and other logical tools). Step 2 – expose it correctly and at the tone level that the intended audience can confront and therefore become aware of (PR Series and other workable tools and media) and do something about.
Theta Clear, this truly is a theta solution. Theta because, it takes the entheta and appropriately discloses it and then, causes it to be diminished by direct viewing and appropriate action.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Mike, please give the man my email. 🙂
This is what I’ve been saying all along. It’s been proven that, so far, no one has been able to get a foothold in courts. As Einstein said, “Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.” So true.
So the stats don’t show that that approach is workable. DM has seemingly endless financial resources and can just throw money at the problem like a rapper throws it at a stripper. (no offense to rappers – or strippers for that matter.)
Someone in OSA once told me, “I’d rather fight a PR war than a money war.” I gotta say, she was right.
A courtroom is just the Judge, the plaintiff, the accused, their lawyers and a few quiet press (in our case).
In the court of public opinion, we have 7 billion potential jurors who could pass judgment and decide or suggest the fate of the defendant.
There is no chance that David Miscavige could get to any kind of ratio of them to pay them off – and most of them have more morals than to allow it. It has to be big enough that even the Scientologists in the bubble will see it and have to come to some kind of independent conclusion.
I’m reminded of the Waco, TX horror of the Branch Davidians in 1993.
http://www.npr.org/2013/04/20/178063471/two-decades-later-some-branch-davidians-still-believe
There are so many facets of this event that are important to remember, and to this subject.
I don’t know what David Koresh did to piss off the ATF but he did.
Then, THE ATF started a PR war with Koresh. Koresh was all over the news as the guy who believed in polygamy and who, it was believed, was having sex with underage girls. Now are we talking about the “Branch Davidians” or the Mormons? If that’s his crime, why wasn’t the ATF up there in Utah, burning down temples? Because he had guns? Don’t tell me that Mormons don’t carry.
I’m just making a point. There was a PR war instigated by the ATF.
That PR war was so successful that THE US POPULATION SAT AND WATCHED PEOPLE BURNED TO DEATH, ON TV, and somehow thought it was ok because of the ATF’s black PR campaign against Koresh.
NOTE: I’m in no way saying that this should be done to the Int Base, in any way, shape or form. Don’t even go there. Innocent people work there, just like there were innocents in the Waco Massacre. Waco never should have happened either. It was murder, plain and simple.
My point though, is that the general public were so convinced that Koresh was evil, that they did nothing but watch and most said nothing about the injustice caused by the ATF.
That’s how powerful PR can be.
Now, we all know that there is a stockpile of guns at the base. There is a crazy and violent man running the show.
Human trafficking is provable.
Other human rights violations abound (like keeping people’s ID/Passports so that they aren’t free to travel anywhere, for example).
I wouldn’t know about sex with underage girls but maybe somebody does. All I know about is adultery and disappearing people. People like Heber Jentzch.
Just like people at the base, the Davidians would never say that they wanted to leave, if the FBI came in and said, “We’re here to rescue you.”
Furthermore, after all of that happened in Waco, those remaining are still devoted to the word. There were only 9 people who lived through that ordeal and some were sent to prison for possession of firearms. Now they have a little place outside of Waco and they even believe that David Koresh will be resurrected. To each, his own.
But that proves Theta Clear’s comments that the “fellowship” and use of the “tech” will still go on. I support that. To each, his own.
Time will tell what works and what doesn’t and, maybe now, we can technically cull through the works, much like Ron did of all of the past philosophers, and find out what is truly workable. And maybe there will be groups who believe in Excaliber, for example, (as there are now) and those who don’t. And some won’t even care to participate. To each, his own.
The only concern with a PR war about Scientology is that, as you say, T C, even the public will throw the baby out with the bath water. It has to be done in a way that the people see that there is a difference between innocent Scientologists (who are actually the ‘victims’ of the suppression) the tech (the parts that are workable) and the crimes of management.
So, having said all that, I do agree with T C. Take it to the people. Make it too gruesome to face for the groups of three letters to stand by and do nothing.
People are being harmed daily. See Scott Campbell’s story if you want to see how bad it has gotten. THIS is what people need to know. The People need to know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACJSR-Smr8c
Write me, Peter. Thanks for taking the time to read through this, everybody. Good luck to us.
Hi thetaclear, Your post was really fascinating for me. As a super sensitive I can put too much HE&R into situations that do not need that as how your very well reasoned post pointed out.Weird even writing HE&R gave me the vapors for a second,let’s just say I get emotional with stuff.So after reading your post if you need anything from me in future,I’ll help however I can.Love,Ann.
Thanks dear Ann , and that’s quite all right ; it is difficult not to get upset and emotional about Scn after all you’ve been through dear. Do not be concern with that. Your help is very much welcome and appreciated. Rest assured that I will contact you for that.
With love,
Peter
P.S
I am experiencing some difficulties posting replies from my android cell phone. I keep getting an “Invalid security token” message every time I write a long reply. This doesn’t happen from the computer itself , but I am not near my place now. So I will probably reply tomorrow to the ones who addressed me. Sorry the inconvenients.
Hi thetaclear,Thankyou sweet heart.Those rats do love to,ply with us. I will Always love you. Love,Ann.
Thanks dear, sorry for the long comm lag ; I love you too.
Peter
Hi Theta Clear,Your post was most beautiful. I know how hard you work and I love you for it.Always Ann.
Thanks dear ; likewise.
Love,
Peter
Hi Theta Clear, Thank you so much.I am TAabehind you whatever you do.Do not worry about the comm lag with us, I totally understand the important work you will do. Just remember you have helped save me thank you.I love you Always.And I meant that.Love you forever Ann B.
Hi Theta ClearI, Will be behind you what ever you do.Those Rats came out to.play when you posted me.Love,you forever Ann.
Thanks dear ; I am happy to have you by my side. Do not be concern by those rats ; they are but just kids playing. :-)))
Love,
Peter
Thanks for your warm words and kindness, dear Ann ; I am very happy to help in any way I can. I’ll get back to you soon. Love you too.
ARC,
Peter
Hi Theta Clear, I saw all your sweet posts and I know The Rats are big kids but they can still get to me sometimes.Glad that you can get your amazing comm out now.I will always be available if need be and I really liked your post to racingintheblood39.I see what you are saying about the wins you feel can still be found outside of what happened to me.If I can get past my terrible time at the end of my Sea Org stay I may yet take you up on your kind offer to help me.Lord knows between cancers and all else that this body has faced I could use it.My heart to you Peter and your beautiful daughter.We’ll both be in touch.XO Always,Ann.
Hi Theta Clear, Thank you so much- Peter,I am relived that all is well after the earlier storms.Oh my I have problems with a message like you got also.Except I get a cut and paste message saying Mike Rinder has declared me a security risk and I may not access his blog.The first time I got it I totally freaked,but now I know what to do to correct those “rats” You are doing so much,please know I understand with all the comm you juggle.Love Always Ann.
Thanks dear Ann ; it didn’t even rain enough. I guess I will have to get used to buckets of water. :-)))
Yeah, the first tile it happened to me I thought “damn, I think that Mike thinks that I am OSA too” as some “dear” friends always thought. But it was just a false alarm. I am not much of a technological man even though that I love Science ; what a contradiction! 🙂
Sorry for all comm lags. I promise I’ll get back to you very soon.
ARC
Peter
“In order to revoke Scn’s tax-exemption status a high court would have to rule against it being a bona fide religion…”
In the USA that isn’t the case. The status of “non-profit” is separate from “religion”. One CAN have a for profit religious organization in the USA.
Thanks for the data, John ; that might be the case in the USA though I will have to look into that more closely as I am not expert on the field, but I do like to get my data directly from official documents on any subject. That’s always the wise way to go even if we are consulting any lawyers about any subject we might want to know something about. Consulting official documents, legal precedents, and the laws of tbe land, and all by ourselves take the “opinion aspect” out of the equation , something I am always very careful about.
“Proving” that the CofS is a profit seeking institution is a VERY uphill proposition , to not says nearly improbable. DM is no dumb ; he has the best lawyers and the best tax advisors in the world. Most of the parishioners willingly donate for the “Idle Orgs” program as well as for other silly programs. Those building are owned by the corporate structure itself. All the luxuries of dear leader are property of the CofS itself. Try proving intent to deceive any any court of law , and see what happens. If it were that easy, all those religious “leaders” who went rich overnight by creating silly Churches or “splinter groups” , would have been caught in the act, but most of them never are even with incredible less resources than tje CofS.
One possible angle is for some parishioners to suit the Cofs, specially DM , for altering the founder’s policies on how to run Orgs, but any judge would probably instruct the parishioners to follow Scn’s internal mechanisms, and will not want to hear the case. Would the CofS allow outside lawyers to participate on those “hearings” ? Would they allow recording the proceedings ? Somehow I doubt that.
What we must understand is that most judges doesn’t want to mess with religious matters , except in incredible obvious cases of fraud where the religious “leader” lack real support and loyalty from parishioners. DM is almost a god for most still-ins ; LRH’s right hand. So the above angle might not even get to second base.
What we need is the strenght of the Third Power : The Media, and the tools from the civil society’s Human Rights commissions.
It doesn’t really matter if any adverse opinion from the UN about Scn or the CofS has any legal “validity” or “power” at the USA courts or government. That doesn’t really matter. What matters is the PRECEDENT that it can create, and the amount of Media exposure that it would definitively create.
My humble opinion.
TC
“What matters is the PRECEDENT that it can create”. The UN cannot create precedent in the US in the legal sense. But, it’s your party.
Thanks John, I wasn’t talking about the legal sense at all, but about the common acception of the word :
prec·e·dent
noun /ˈpresəd(ə)nt/an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances. “there are substantial precedents for using interactive media in training” (Online dictionary by Farlex).
And I would very much like to be your party as well. This is a “PRO world” indeed.
Best regards,
Peter
It should have read, “And I would very much want it to be your party as well”. I am still struggling with my English.
TC
I understand what you are saying now TC. I wish you luck
Yes John, anyone that wants to make an effort to do something about it should be given all the support and good wishes possible. The more people at the coalface and the more different vectors there are, the better. I don’t think Jim Jackson is going to ever get anywhere, but that doesnt mean I don’t support him. How do I know for sure that I am right and he is wrong? And it’s easier and better to support him than to criticize or negate.
Thanks for your best wishes, John ; really appreciate it.
Best regards,
Peter
If we can get the UN Human Rights Commission to issue an opinion on the Church of Scientology, I’m all for it.
And I agree that that would be effective in the campaine to end Scientology.
A perfect government would be able to provide its citizens with the freedom of religion and, at the same time, deem a singular entity as illegal in whatever ways it sees fit according to evidence, and decide on tax-status by the same method, which is the crtical analysis of benifit verses harm. We must demand trasnparency from all religions, as a starting point. Are you optimistic, that the UN Commission can effectively leverage such demands?
Well, then I’m with you.
I balk at the idea of discouraging opinions, emotional or otherwise, when the oppressed so dearly need the platform from which to express precisely that, the emotional and psychological damage caused by this organization needs to be exposed by these people directly involved.
Jackson says going for revoking the tax status won’t work. He says he knows the IRS well enough to know that will never happen. He also says he doesn’t want it to happen “Because it would destroy the church, it could not survive.” But, he thinks the church would be repaired if Miscavige were removed. I disagree. The position would simply be replaced with another hypnotized chicken, if you ask me. I do predict that that is precisely what will eventually happen, if not soon. As an Anti-Scientologist (I hesitate to tag myself that way. I’d rather be thought of as a Critical Thinker) I’m going to be a little sorry to see him go. He does such a good job of screwing up his church, I kinda like the idea of keeping him at it. Sure provides me with plenty of comedic material, if I may say something so selfish.
Our government is seriously flawed, sounds silly to even say it. But, if we could appoint our own special commission to investigate the church and its tax status, the result would have to be the end of the tax-exempt status, and so, the actual demise of the church once and for all would come about. Supposedly, Congress and the House of Representatives tells the IRS what to do, not the other way around. -mm
A UN decision vis-a-vis scientology will have no legal effect in the US Mark Marco. It may in other countries of course. The President controls the IRS. The recent political/legal mess the IRS has found itself in should tell you that much.
All the more reason for a Congressional Special Investigation, still the originators of law in this country.
But this is a battle to be won in the court of public opinion. A UN decision would certainly lend a heftly sway in our favour, including the decision to launch that investigation. On that I certainly agree with Peter.
“But this is a battle to be won in the court of public opinion. ”
The IRS doesn’t care about public opinion. And congress doesn’t care what the UN decides either. Also, a “special investigator” ain’t gonna happen with the IRS. If you had been following recent congress via the IRS battles you would realize that already.
I care about the court of public opinion.
I aim to see that battle won.
ps
I have written letters to The President, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and my letter to Harry Reid was reprinted here, actually, a sort of landmark moment for my “coming out”. All letters had the singular intention to express my demand, my intention to launch a Special Investigation regarding the tax-exempt status of the Church of Scientology, an investigation to be conducted by a Special Committee appointed by Congress. I got an acknowledgement of receipt of such letter from the office of The Vice President, a correspondence I am proud to show my friends,
Thanks for acknowledging that my target audience for those letters was correct, The Executive Branch.
Sir, there’s dribble coming off the corner of your mouth there, I think people are noticing. You would be taken more seriously if that kind of stuff were deleated.
Thanks for the comm, Marco. And I will remember to count you in when I get ready to launch. Regarding this :
” I balk at the idea of discouraging opinions, emotional or otherwise, when the oppressed so dearly need the platform from which to express precisely that, the emotional and psychological damage caused by this organization needs to be exposed by these people directly involved.”
I wasn’t attempting to discourage others when I commented about no “Human Emotion and Reaction” in the general strategy. In fact, I want the stories of EVERYONE to be told and written in detail for the UN representatives to have them, and all with its emotion.
I was referring more to the aspect of providing others with facts that can be documented and proved beyond the realm of “opinion”. I was also referring to the strategy concerning a big coordinated international protest in front of ALL major Orgs on the planet. That strategy requires only one voice, one message. And if our message is too individualized, too 1rst dynamic instead of pandetermined and directed towards the protection of the rights of others, we might just look like bitterly hurt apostates desiring revenge, and thus we won’t be taken seriously by the Media.
So we must be smart about all this.
Those expressions like “El Con” , “El Criminal Hubbard” , “Kood-aid drinkers” , etc, etc, etc, should NOT, NOT be part of ANY professional champaign to protect the rights of others as we would be only failing to let Scienfologists believe in whatever the hell the want to believe , and we are not to judge the religious beliefs of others.
The champaign should only address Human Rights violations , and ridding Scn of its destructive policies, not obliterating the whole subject as many wish to do. That is in itself wrong and extreme, only being the other side of the dichotomy.
The fact is that others have a right to be gullible, stupid, cult(ish) and silly. If they are throughly educated regarding how Scn and LRH violates Human Rights ; if they are shown evidence supported by documented facts and STILL they want to hold on to it, so be it; it is their right to so believe. Our job ends when we present all the evidence to others, and when the parts that mess with our Human Rights are gotten rid of, not when SCN as a philosophy had zero members.
When the whole world knows the truth about LRH and Scn, when all Scientologists specially the Still-ins have ALL information available at their disposal so they can all arrive at their own independent judgement about it, our job is finished then. To attempt to go beyond that is a symptom of fixation and hate that will not get us any place. Not to paraphrase LRH in any way as this datum is not really his but started more than 3,000 years ago, “To hate is the road to disaster, to learn to forgive is the road towards spiritual salvation”. We must learn to let go. To just let go, disconnect from it all, and learn to appreciate the miracles of life.
TC
You are one cool dude, TC.
Proud to be counted as one on your team, I am Mark Marco.
Thanks for having me on the roster.
You are most welcome, dear Mark ; and thanks for the validation. The honor is all mine.
Best regards,
Peter
Peter,
I like your idea.
Would you happen to know how one goies about petitioning the UN for a decision?
Sign me up, man. Maybe we could put our heads together, come up with something that nobody would feel intimidated about signing and maybe we could hit that target, whatever it is, get this church declared once and for all. Stamped by the UN? Oh, yeah, I like it. That’s a tattoo on the face of Scientology I could live with.
I asked Mike to send you my eMail. Please accept it.
It would be an honor to get in comm with you, dear Mark. Mike , please be so kind and provide him with my e-mail address.
To answer your question, yes I do know how to petition. The thing is that one pre-requisite to file a complaint is that no court cases be active on the same subject of the petition. The UN prefer that governments and citizens as well first exhaust all available legal resorces before taking on a case for consideration. There are some exceptions to the rule (some angle to use) , but I don’t want to publicly divulge my strategy for security reasons. Suffice to say I am working on analyzing that angle, and on finding the correct comm lines first. Comm lines are everything is these endeavors.
Take care, and I am looking forward to more comms.
Best regards,
Peter
The Tampa Bay Times story featuring Jim Jackson is an important one. Jim is striking directly at removing Miscavige utilizing the corporate bylaws of the CoS. I wish he addressed exactly why he felt it “wasn’t necessary” to revoke the tax exemption of the CoS, even though he made it clear that he didn’t want this to happen because he had spent half his life working for that. I was very interested to hear him explain this point but it doesn’t happen in the videos.
Jim is one the people who saved the CoS when it needed it the most. If Scientologists in the church would be willing to learn church history and apply it to today’s scene, they would have little problem leaving the cult that it is today. Some might even be interested in its reformation.
Lastly, I have often wondered why people are so afraid of the CoS crumbling into the dust and losing its tax exemption. If the religious philosophy is workable and helps people, wouldn’t it continue to exist without Miscavige anyway, and isn’t it time to stop charging the exorbitant fees for enlightenment or ‘spiritual freedom?’ The church might begin to look like a real church (or self-improvement group), and less like a shameless, greedy, business enterprise for profit.
“I think Hollywood was taking stock of what is going on in its own community. It was a stand-up declaration on the part of the Television Academy,”
-Lawrence Wright (speaking on the Emmys, from Tony Ortega’s blog, web14sep2015)
Another bulls-eye commentary in the typical Lawrence Wright style, saying Hollywood declares D. Miscavige.
( not specifically named, but, come on… ) Really, really priceless.
I am reeling. I feel like I won three Emmys myself.
Dear Leader, you don’t get it, about humans at all far as I can see, but let me help you out.
This is what it looks like when payback comes around, parting all those good people from their money, the walls come crumbling down. Still confused?
Let me draw you a picture…”Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall…”.
Yes, yes, let’s make another movie. A Hollywood epic.
Dave, after all, still needs something to complain about.
Whooppsy, (blush) AttaBOY Hemi. Hope I got it right this time! 🙂 darn these pictureless monickers 🙂 🙂 🙂
(Justification — a thetan doesn’t have a gender! Now I feel better LOL!)
Even with all of these revelations, based on what I gleaned from The Sociopath Next Door, membership in the so-called Church of Scientology may dwindle to a low number, but some who are particularly susceptible to the sociopath will always remain.
One example given in the aforementioned book is that of a school principal who was dealing heroin. Even after he was convicted and incarcerated, there were people in his community trying to get him out of jail and restore him to his former position. Even his own children had a tough time recognizing him as a sociopath.
No matter how much is exposed, membership abandonment will not likely bring about Miscavige’s demise. It’s more likely that he will be caught at something (e.g., tax evasion, inurement) or take himself out somehow. All of this exposure will surely expedite one or the other. My 2 cents.
Yes, he is taking himself out. Insightful remark, WhatWall. He has been engaged in that process, ultimately, since the beginning.
Watch and learn.
This is a lesson on how to hopelessly lose your mind…
Now then, what’s the scoop on the new movie, i wonder. What a show.
What a show, indeed.
Outstanding article, Mike. Very well written.
Kudos, Mike.
+1
Google socks it to me with an Ad today from Feedom Mag, says “Alex Gibney ignores 25 Scientologists”
That’s so cute.
WikiPedia …, can I just paste a couple of lines? (assuming that to be legal- and everybody knows I’m not saying this for money or anything, but, to share:
– Philip Alexander “Alex” Gibney (born October 23, 1953) is an American documentary film director and poducer. In 2010, Esquire magazine said Gibney “is becoming the most important documentarian of our time”.[1]
His works as director include Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief (winner of three Emmys in 2015).
Wow, that’s pretty quick work, Wiki-boys. Thanks for keeping the scoop on the front burner. Wish I could have kind of notoriety, what I’d have to say about the leader just doesn’t quit. In fact, I need a therapist.
[ Always shooting himself in the foot, with bigger and bigger guns, relentlessly? It is hilarious.]
Someone knows how we can watch this film for the latinamericans countrys?
Its on youtube, the whole film.
Si pudiera traducirlo todo para todo el mundo, me lo haria.
That was for Jeremy; it says:
If I could translate [the movie] for everyone, I would.
Hi Mark Marco, Can you translate for me? I took French for years at school as that was mandatory back in the 60s and 70s, but I would have done a lot better if I could of taken Spanish I think.Love,Ann.
Why yes, my dear, let me be your guide, faithfully yours,
I also make a decent Spanish teacher.
(lucky you, both languages are built just the same)
Hi Mark Marco,In answer to your post, always on both counts.Spanish and definitely I can use your guidance.Love,Ann.
Pues tal vez deberiamos hacerlo, querido Marcos. :-)))
Seria un proyecto muy interesante.
Un hombre en, en seguida de mi corazon.
Best Documentary, Best Writer, Best Director, 3 Emmies: I am over the moon, and unable to further articulate at this time. I actually need to take a walk before I read the TBT article.
This is news of such value. Here’s what I learned – concerning the scientology bubble, Justice IS possible!!! Thank you Alex and crew, Lawrence and crew, Mike, Sara, Mark, Tony and EVERYONE who strove for this milestone! You DID IT!!!
Certainly this sweep of the Emmys comes as no surprise to DM. He may be disappointed, but he had plenty of warning from his considerable Hollywood connections/advisers that these Hollywood Emmy judges would shit on his head, big time. And, they did.
His response will be to 1) carry on with the policy to “attack the attacker” (in this case Hollywood and the entertainment industry) which is going work reeeeal good. And, 2) he will march out all the Scientology koolaide drunk celebs he can (as he has done for the past 2 months, anticipating this awards debacle) to make appearances and say nothing meaningful or if they say anything it will be deny, deny and attack the reporters.
Cowed people inside the bubble may listen to what DM says, but free people outside the bubble hear what he says and they don’t like it.
Occasionally, in the world of scientology critique, there is a signal event. Such things as the Tom Cruise Circus of 2005, South Park’s Trapped in the Closet, Tampa Bay Times Truth Rundown, Jeff Hawkin’s Counterfeit Dreams, John Brousseau’s defection, Debbie Cook’s magnum opus, Luis Garcia’s Letter from Garcia, Mike Rinder’s epic helicopter flight, Lawrence Wright’s book, Jenna Miscavige Hill’s book, Mark Headley’s book, Mosey Rathbun’s lawsuit, Alex Gibney’s film, Anderson Cooper’s Inch Wives, Katie Holme’s escape, Jenny Linson’s LAX meltdown, Paulette Cooper’s The Unbreakable Miss Lovely world tour…hmmm…maybe it’s more than occasionally.
Today is another of those signal events. That is events, plural. Not just Alex Gibney’s three Emmys for his documentary Going Clear, but Jim Jackson’s /Tampa Bay Times article. We all know Jim Jackson. He is legendary. And, while I doubt his call to arms for the directors of scientology’s many corporate entities to step forward and depose David Miscavige will bear fruit, the cleverness and audacity of his strategy is delightful.
When you realize what it has taken for scientology’s empire to begin to crumble, how many, many people, members and non-members alike, have had to take brave and lonely stands in an attempt to correct its blatant abuses, you realize what a formidable organization it once was. No more.
I may be reading this wrong, but I feel the one-two punch of Alex Gibney calling Hollywood to account and Jim Jackson, the penultimate scientologist, going to the mat to save his church, has dealt a TKO to Miscavige’s church.
Hi Been There,Very good to meet you. Your post made me a little teary,as your ” brave and lonely stands “line resonated so greatly for me.Signal Event wonderfully put.Thank you. Always Ann B.
Hip, hip, HURRAY! Hip, HIP, HUURRAAYY!!! HIP, HIP, HHUUURRRAAAYYYY!!!!!!
The thing I wonder: how much of these awards are based purely on appreciation for the craft, and how much is it a statement (from Hollywood) about the subject matter itself?
There’s elements of both. But considering how much and for how long Scientology has made Hollywood their bitch, if it’s the latter, that means that the evil spell is broken forever, and Hollywood (and thus the rest of the mass media) no longer has anything to fear from these pricks. It’s as much a declaration of independence as your typical Ex makes by posting on the blogs under their own name. In other words, either way, it’s a great thing.
Hi Espiando, One billion + yeses to turn post. Always Ann B.
Hi Espiando,Those Rats better watch it! I meant to your post! Ann.
Today, again, our voice goes mainstream.
Check out the article in today’s Variety.
Alex is like:
Thanks for the three BEST awards, but the job’s not done. The church still is tax-exempt and Tom Cruise has not spoken up. And this church? They prove how to take a man’s identity and change it with a belief system, they prove how abusive and oppressive that can actually be. Things still are not right…I’ll just have to make another movie.
Mike, you’re a true star. Let me echo Alex and express my appreciation.
Yes, yes, yes! Everything that Marc Marco just said. Soooo happy! Still can’t talk 🙂
Hi Aquamarine,So happy you and me both.I walked around all day smiling!And being silly because this is so amazing to me.Mike deserves such accolades for putting it out there these years day in and day out.Love,Ann.
First, I just want to give loads of kudos to you, Mike. You are one of the very top indie sites out there. You’re in the league of iScientology.org and Scientolipedia, but you topple them being in the league that you are and with the speed and relevant data that you post. Your site is much more integral and attractive, interesting than a couple of the other top defectors out there.
I just wanted to relate that I have come across http://freezoneearth.org/pilot/reformer.html#clearing recently, and I’m completely blown away by his brilliance–his in-depth knowledge, experiential time-track of Scientology development since the early days, depth, grasp of tech and policy and ability to see where, when and why it went off the rails, and what needs to be reformed and why and how. I am certain beyond any shadow of doubt that we must further post, refer to and apply his data in the business of reformers, or indies. Within his site I came across https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.religion.scientology today even though it’s from 1997 and lo and behold, I came across therein a link to your article here in your blog, right on the first page!
Anyone who is familiar with Pilot’s techniques or books such as in his Self Clearing books, may think not much of them, as did I when having read some of it. He wrote about 350 pages.
However, in http://freezoneearth.org/pilot/reformer.html#clearing he devotes some time to the fact that there has been a lot of work done by LRH to improve and then define what the state of Clear is. However, as he says, there has been no accurate route to or definition of what it is. I watched a video a bit of a time ago with Jason Beghe, a celebrity OT 5, Class 5. He was ranting and raving about how LRH went on and on in the Congresses that “Oh, now we’ve got it” over and over again each lecture regarding what a Clear is and Jason felt there was no real definition of what one is.
Of course, a caveat has to be posted: Ken Ogger, the Pilot, fell into a state of psychotic paranoia where he believed that literally everything was after him, and that there were numerous beings from this planet and others watching him. It got so bad that he ended his own life. Some believe that it was his research into Hubbard’s previous work that caused this fate. So, be careful.
Ah I didn’t know that. Interesting. Makes sense to me. When you see someone as obsessed with something as he clearly was, it seems to be a signal that full-blown insanity may follow.
Did you ever run any OSA Ops against the “squirrel” Ken Ogger when you ran the Office of Special Affairs, Mike?
Alanzo
Nope, had never heard of him Alanzo
Really?
One of the biggest squirrels in Scientology history and you had never heard of him as the head of OSA?
Then how did you know he was so “obsessed”?
Alanzo
Alanzo — I read his stuff after I left. He wasn’t a big squirrel in my world (did he ever deliver anything?). And “squirrels” when they were really rampant — David Mayo, Harry Palmer, Bill Robertson etc I definitely knew about but were really the domain of RTC. When was Ken Ogger around?
Thanks for continuing to talk about this, Mike.
I was never a “freezoner” or a “squirrel”. But Ken Ogger’s suicide was a sobering reminder to me of the destruction that Hubbard’s tech and policy can cause.
Maybe no one else was to blame, he probably killed himself after all.
But I think you shouldn’t speak ill of the dead, especially those who were targeted by some of the people you worked with while they were alive.
Here are some links for you to catch up on him. I’ve turned them into inoperable hyperlinks so my post does not go into your spam folder.
the-scientologist -dot-com/kenogger.shtml
http://www.sgmt-dot-at/PILOT.HTM
scientolipedia-dot-org/info/Ken_Ogger
ocmb.xenu-dot-net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=23181
http://www.sgmt-dot-at/PILOT/Ogger%20Coroner%20Report.pdf
That last link is a copy of the police report and the coroner’s report. He voiced lots of concern about Scientology coming after him before he probably committed suicide.
Again, sorry for bringing all this up on your blog. But I felt it was important.
Alanzo
I, for one, very much appreciate being made aware of the sobering story.
Thank you for it. May it bring you closure and well-earned peace speaking to the departed.
Hi Espiando, Thank you for your post.Your words are true.I know that danger and have faced it.Not pretty or fun. That is why I say there are two sides to Ron and The Tech.The white and the black.The black nearly killed me. Always Ann B.
Makes sense Espiando. The stuff I read from the guy in the 90’s showed that he was completely unhinged and delusional beyond even where LRH was on the subject. Poor guy. Another victim of EL Con Tek.
I hope tax exemption is removed . More and more people are becoming aware of what Scientology is really all about
The Emmy awards must really stick in Miscavige’s craw. He spent probably millions and months if not years of legal and PR broadsides aimed at shutting down the making of Going Clear, then when that wasn’t gonna happen, spent plenty more very publicly attacking Mr. Gibney, and all other major participants. Now this. Then there is the fact that MIscavige has spent plenty more time and money trying to get in solid in Hollywood. Now this. Get this Dave, Hollywood has spoken, and what it has said is not really very good for you.
“Going Clear…” HBO documentary wins Emmys without David Miscavige’s participation, other than by providing content in the form of firsthand stories told by the ex senior members who witnessed Miscavige’s behavior and the untold number of ex senior Scientology staff beaten up by Miscavige!
Wright got the details, and this documentary has the goods in it.
These Emmys are so worthy of awards to Gibney and Wright’s work!
“a neurologist who tested him says his memory is perfect”
Hilarious!!!!! Only SOB would try and dead agent an OT VIII.
SOB is the one with real memory problems, in fact I doubt SOB even finished ARC Straightwire!
It is interesting to me and should be interesting to sycophantic trash like Cruise, Travolta and “Back” Alley how is it SOB never permits Auditing in his own life?
LRH has written much about the type of personality who
A) Degrades or critisises Auditing
B) Refuses Auditing
Not that anyone would offer SOB Auditing, as its healthier to walk the other way when he is about.
But I think it would be so very interesting to audit him and find out for real what goes on in his head.
Ex Dn case I expect.
So true. Although LRH, being a sociopath himself (SP) ensured that DM rose up through the S.O. ranks to the top…
I wouldn’t go so far as calling LRH an SP– which is someone who does more harm than good–when he has done by FAR more good than harm.
“I wouldn’t go so far as calling LRH an SP– which is someone who does more harm than good–when he has done by FAR more good than harm.”
isoiam, thanks for your input. You’ve just summed up the essence of the matter. Those who actually understand the tech know this. Those who don’t, don’t. That’s how I see it.
“Those who actually understand the tech know this. Those who don’t, don’t. that’s how I see it”
marildi, the way I see it is one doesn’t have to understand the tech to assess its value. One need only observe its effects.
isoiam, some people say they’ve been helped by Hubbard’s teachings. That is a subjective reality and can’t be disputed. But when they say he did FAR more good than harm, that’s an empirical claim that can be torn to shreds as fast as you can say, “Paulette Cooper”.
Correct Roger. Trying to use subjective feelings to replace objective reality is a possible indication of SEVERE mental illness. A large % of people that are institutionalized are in for that reason.
isoiam, you have the wrong definition of SP. As evidenced by the PLs defining AND what El Con declared people SP for.
Try again…
There’s that annoying drip again, let me get you a kleenex. See what I mean? I don’t even know what ISOME said and already I’m leaning towards his side, whatever, hold on, lemme just reset my mind, so i can give you a clean slate, argh!…wait…
OH MY GOD.
Oh, dear. I’m lost, where to begin….
isoiam,
I understand the phenomenon: love for LRH. I suffered that affliction until quite recently, I’m a little embarrassed to admit.
I beg you to step back, take a look at the man starting pre-1950, when he began to famously mold himself into a notorious, and shamelessly self-agrandizing story teller.
Dip your toes into the early future from that moment, and notice how brutal he would become when confronted with any crticism. Note how that characteristic, along his penchant for telling you how he knows so much more than all the rest of man and the history of knowledge, and keep separate from that your personal feelings towards the man, including intellectual achievements. Just look at what he created.
He created a trap.
Once in, you were severly punished for expressing any doubt about that trap, doubt about the founder in particular.
He reinforced the trap.
He threatened you, anyone inside the trap, with isolation for eternity if you were to leave the trap or go to the media, specifically the media, to be critical of the trap in any way.
The trap is the church. The trap is the tech, as the true purpose of that tech is again to keep you trapped, hypnotized into thinking the garden-variety therapy he actually delivers is “actually” the path to Total Freedom and the supposed salvation of mankind. Forget whether or not you bought this story. Just look at what I mean, when i say it is a trap, one that will sting very much, if you try to touch the fence. The punishment. The relentless disregard for everything and everybody in your life that you love. All that is waged against you in order to keep you in that trap.
Hubbard died his body riddled with drugs, his mind lost despite the heavy doses of anti-psychotics, himself the victim of acute paranoia. He was thus isolated from himself, a total failure. He died in hiding from himself, his church, his doctrine and, most of all, you.
He died refusing to tell you the truth.
And he died proving the tech does not work, except to keep his followers intranced and/or in the trap. Keep Scientology Working, indeed.
Each Scientologist represents one family brutally torn apart. That, to me, makes further measure of good verses harm a useless endeavour. Now I need a kleenex. John, I’m sorry, did you have something to add?
Hi Mark Marco,XXOO a trillion times to you.Great post.Always Ann.
COB YOUR DAYS ARE COUNTED. THIS IS REALLY A MAJOR WIN FOR MAN.
And woman….
Laughter!
The Jim Jackson story is amazing! The poor guy is a true believer, and all he wants are a few answers and some assurance that the organizations he’s been supporting with 40 years of his life and undoubtedly 100’s of thousands of $$$ is on the up and up. Unlike most of the rest of us, he wants to see this thing succeed.
So if this is the contempt the “church” shows to its steadfast believers…
Yes, that is amazing, that OT 8 Scientologists who can understand the corporate intricacies of Scientology even exist, who can utter solutions to Scientology’s corporate situation and dictatorial mismanagement today.
I don’t believe in the Scientology body thetan snipe hunting that is done on OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 today, but Jim’s about the best top critic I’ve heard who gives corporate solutions.
It makes me, atheist, wish to put my skills as helper nerd to whomever is wishing to write up a “Corporate Duties Full Hat Checksheet” of issues that lay out HOW these Top Sea Org executives ought to be trained to even understand their corporate roles and responsibilities.
Scientologists are not even educated enough to realize they must be legal and follow the corporate rules that legally bind them.
The live, at the time, in layers of ignorance and mistrust of the legal corporate laws of the land they live and operate within.
It’s all show and they follow Hubbard’s Scientology rules and regulations first, and they follow “command intention” and their ranking system, over top corporate rules.
They’d need to do some simple “Corporate Duties Responsibilities for Dummies” book reading first, and a simple laid out “Full Hat Checksheet” that drilled and made them clay demo their exact roles when it comes to how to depose whomever is their “top dog” COB.
Jim Jackson could conceivably be important in history, for bringing up this major lack of internal education of the “top” corporate board members of the top Scientology corporations.
Further, a fine point of criticism of what Jim Jackson says about David Miscavige, it is sadly a fact that Hubbard’s final ASI orders regarding David Miscavige’s role, and whether his position of COB ASI, or the position of COB RTC (which the position of COB RTC has no LRH traffic regarding, BUT the position of COB ASI does have L. Ron Hubbard traffic regarding, and that traffic is in David Miscavige’s possession and OUGHT to be shared with the COB ASI position at Author Services Inc today).
There is a complicated discssuion that needs be sifted through, regarding the COB ASI position traffic from L. Ron Hubbard.
For the history books, I have read over several times, I cannot say I understood them to any great degree, but in the 20 or so despatches known as the COB ASI traffic, there was NO smoking gun passing of the top decider role to David Miscavige.
There is some intimation that ASI had to be over the church when it came to final arbiter role like the AVC role (AVC is the church top editor role, a role that alternated between RTC and CSI in recent years, where Hubbard said that ASI might have to retain the AVC position, but that is legally untenable).
If I were smarter, I’d phone Jim Jackson just for a talk, now that he’s public, and give him my firsthand knowledge of the ASI traffic, but I’ve written up my recollections on chat sites so what I recall I’ve put in the public domain.
David Miscavige absolutely hijacked the position of leader. His silence on the topic rests.
In fact, his silence is so prolific that one could safely argue that he is the master of hiding, the entire church cloaked by his intention.
Congratulations Mike, Alex, Lawrence, HBO Films and everyone involved in Going Clear! Hmm, maybe that oh-so-important event yesterday was cancelled at the last minute so everyone could go watch the Emmys.
Dave,
The fringes of the internet have you surrounded and it is closing in fast.
Why is it that it is becoming so easy for the press and media to yank your chain? Far, far more easily than you can yank a ribbon.
Woohoo!!!! Today is a happy day!
Love it! 🙂
Arrrrrrrgggg! Me too, Lynn!
Most of the LRH quotes I’ve heard people use to back up their arguments are logically or factually unsound but Hubbard did say, “If you can’t beat them join them”. I offer that quote to those scientologists who are resentful of church critics while hiding under their beds. Join the critics of the church for God’s sake. Going Clear wins Emmies and an OTVIII is telling you to dump David Miscavige and he’s telling you that from the platform of a 10 time Pulitzer Prize winning newspaper. You church-supporting scientologists are in the fast lane to extinction. Now’s the time to prove all those wins and cognitions have been empowering experiences and not degenerative ones. Mr. Jackson believes in his religion and thinks it can save mankind from self-destruction. Notwithstanding the fact his beliefs have no more merit than the belief that Jesus died for our sins, he is at least sticking his neck out pretty far and that’s mighty commendable.
Well said! ☺️
Well, I don’t know Jackson at all. If he is pushing a belief system my gut reaction rejects it as a starting point. Nobody sticks his neck out further than Dave. He may be without fear, but I can’t find a single shred of evidence that warrants a”commendable” badge of merit. Except maybe his hair.
The man certainly has hair.
After review and a little research, (such as clicking on your link) I need to reverse my sentiments regarding the person, James Jackson. In fact, I’m ready to adopt and subscribe to his belief system altogether just to joyfully pass the time. Thanks, Mike, for providing the link upstairs that introduces us. What a truely remarkable man, a genuine man, and, by virtue of modest integrity, a very real and powerful man.
– I just learned how important it is to know something about a person before publicly rejecting him.
If James Jackson decided to form an army, I would enlist.
Jackson’s legal letters to the church lawyers are quite interesting, including the legal and LRH references indicated. (Monique Yingling would have been wearing diapers for a few weeks afterwards.)
Good work Going Clear !
Topple Miscavige from inside, that is an ancient
battle strategy that WORKS !!!!
Great detailed article at Tampa Bay by Childs. And glad more people keep speaking up; we will keep at it while Pompadour figures-figures how to handle his ulcers with all the media on him.
To the OSA handler(s) being forced to scan this blog today please take a real moment to read some of the comments. Even you will be offered safe haven if you choose to escape.
As for Jim Jackson, if you are OT, dear OSA handler, please consider what the OT levels address vs what Karin Pouw’s assertion for “certifiably insane” is and take to heart that by calling Jim Jackson certifiably insane, she also called anyone in Scientology who is OT III or above certifiably insane.
Those of us who watched the well-reasoned and well-researched documentary are thrilled that Gibney received these rewards.
It’s like there is a tug of war between those contributing to the crimes of Scientology and those exposing them. The first continues to decrease and grow weaker. The second is very quickly increasing and growing stronger. The result is irreversible and predictable. What makes this even more true is that many holding the rope on the criminal side are not really pulling and are only there because they don’t want to lose their family and friends should they step out of line.
+1! It’s insidious how their mind control works, Matt. People in and UTR because they don’t want to lose their family. They never should have lost them in the first place. But, as you posted, the tide is, indeed, turning.
So true Mat
Today that tug of war got the benefit of an 800 lb gorilla, called Hollywood, taking a godawful yank on that rope for the good guys. Hollywood feels the pulse of the American public. That’s why they are a powerful force.
Well said, Matt. And we are winning on our side of the tug of war.
The Reich is askew, yawing badly.
All but the most delusional have abandoned ship.
The Dwarfuenfuerur apathetically launders his own soiled underwear today.
Hi Alonzo, Good to meet you.And I join in saying Yaw Baby Yaw even the old girl knows someone’s time will come and we know who!Always Ann B.
Meanwhile, the Dwarfenburger surveys His vast view of the expanding ocean of salvation from His poop deck some 200 feet above the waters. “Everything is fine people!!! We are expanding like……”
Yo Dave,
Give it a couple minutes good buddy, you are going to feel the icy waters of some real public scorn ……. the likes of which you have not even imagined. Tell the Sherminator to get busy with some press releases ….NOW GODDAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1. But I do think you’re holding back just a tad…..
Congrats! And thank you Mike for helping. Boy, is sure does suck to be DM this A.M. And, everyday!
What excites me, with the exception of paddling out on a 6 ft day of spinning tubes, is that Alex Gibney has more material on Hubbard and has hinted at another film.
So, my fine poster friends, if he does come out with another film, how will the Tinnie Tiny Dwarfen Fuhrer react? Will his head explode? You tell me……
OSD that is great news! I bet he will have lack of finance to do a documentary on Flubbard.
That might be the thing that drives the Indies and the “Churchies” back into each others arms. The common defence of the Sociopath EL Ron!
Mike – Like many others I want to acknowledge your contribution to the current state of affairs. After Marty Rathbun, you were the next big defection I heard about and that’s when I really started paying attention to what was going on inside scientology. I was hard hit by your situation, what it must have taken for you to have to disappear, given your position of prominence and visibility. Once you started talking, I knew all the rumors about the sickness of the cult were true and developed a ravenous appetite to find out as much as I could.
So thank you, thank you for your courage, tenacity and contribution to this cause. A lot of people admire and appreciate you for your efforts.
Ditto!
ml, 1.1
There is so much data in the Jim Jackson story; now reading the church’s responses. They really do appear to be imploding. OSA visibly pounces on the Vannier connection and makes it central to their objections, even though it is briefly mentioned in the TBT article. It feels as though OSA felt they found “the smoking gun” and comes out with guns ablazing. Anything to divert the public’s attention from the real story.
Jackson’s communication to the church is well reasoned and balanced, and not at all threatening. And as the letters progress you can feel his frustration in dealing with these people. The church’s communication, on the other hand, is mean and vindictive, which pretty much describes the organization overall.
Why anyone would have anything to do with Scn is beyond me. It is clear that all freedom of thought and speech has been expunged from the group. All that is left is a slavish devotion to Dear Leader, with sycophants rather than spiritually aware parishioners.
Who would have predicted after reading KSW for the first time many, many years ago, that some Mini-Me dictator would bring down the whole show – in less than 30 years? Amazing.
Hi statpush, A wonderful post! I loved your last part because I mirror that thought! Wonders never cease to keep me young and fighting for those still trapped.Always Ann B.
“Who would have predicted after reading KSW for the first time many, many years ago, that some Mini-Me dictator would bring down the whole show…”
statpush, ironic as it may seem, KSW (and the insanity behind it) is what precipitated the crashing of LRH and his “church”. It is what stripped away freedom of thought and communication in scn.
Chris Shelton has a video where he shows in beautiful detail how KSW is the reason why advanced scientologists would stand back and let an obvious nut case systematically undo everything they’ve been taught. Then present it back to them altered and doing it all OUT IN THE OPEN! KSW is the reason these people are severely conditioned to believe what they are told to believe. And they don’t even know why they believe what they believe.
Yep. El Con set it up so no one could question HIS insanity. Of course that now helps whomever runs the church afterwards. Those that didn’t know enough to bail because of the falseness of Scn (without DM) were easy marks when he came to power.
Hi John Locke,You make a good point with your post re: DM and those that stayed for his circus show.Always Ann.
Congrats to you as well Mike. It was the brave exes AND Gibney that made this film what it is. I hope you’re feeling an immense amount of pride today. 🙂
I don’t care much for Mr. Jackson’s religion, but I really appreciate him planting the seed that Black Heart, Let Him Die Miscavige can and should be brought down from within. I do not see that happening, but it is one more crack in the dam and one more threat that paranoid Tiny Fists has to fret over,
As for Gibney, Wright, et al, and the Emmys, what a fantastic accomplishment! Well deserved, congratulations and THANK YOU
Actually, I do see it happening.
All it takes is two guys.
As Jackson explains, two members of the board have the power to vote Miscavige out, whether they realize that they have that power or not. He explains that it is set up that way BY LAW, as the corporate entity cannot give absolute control to a single person. That is part of the agreement, also, that allowed tax-exempt status to materialize.
Dave has been too stupid for too long. Now he has absolutely everyone on the board pissed off, that’s what I imagine. He has been smart enough to keep Jackson from knowing their names, that’s all. But, let me tell you, if you sit on that board, or know someone that does, you really need to make a phone call.
That’s how close it is.
Mark Marko, as someone who has been posted “uplines” (where these cats are) I’d give it 1,000:1 odds against. Yes, it IS possible. But so is getting hit by lightening. I do hope it happens however.
That does reset my perspective, thank you.
Brilliant! Love this.
I don’t usually like the taste of butt but credit where credit is due: in my estimation, you stand up there with Gibney, Wright, and Childs. You are a humanitarian freeing people from the evil abuses of Scientology.
It’s coming up to 6 years ago when you came to Oxford to see me. I had just walked away from everything I had ever known and almost everybody I had ever known. You listened to my concerns and to reassure me, you put enough money in my hand to be able to get to the airport if OSA came a nockin’ again – which they did. I happily put that money back in your hand when we met again, stateside, when I was finally free of them.
I’m happy I made the decision to no longer support such a narcissistic, sociopathic organization even if that meant losing 99% of the people I love. But I didn’t do it for happiness, I did it because it was right. The first couple of months weren’t happy, they were dark. I started from scratch with no life, no friends, no job. But as the years have unfolded I have experienced a life never before dreamed; friendships without limitations, happiness with no boundries, truly able to be “cause” over my life.
Had it not been for people like you, my parents; people speaking out against the wrong doings of Scientology, I would still be stuck there, wondering what is wrong with me that I’m not happy, that I don’t get it, that I can’t conform. I would still be trying to bend myself probably until I snapped.
Instead the last 6 years have been the best years of my life.
Thank you, Mike.
Thank you all.
Thanks Mareka, that is very sweet of you. What makes me happiest is to see you flourishing in your new life with two beautiful children and a truly good man by your side. That is the best outcome possible. Congratulations for making it happen.
Mike Rinder, I agree when I heard you blew from a kool aid FSMer to the max Ronite Sorrroco, who I saw by accident at a Starbucks in Monrovie, CA in 2007, I knew right then that the tide had changed and I amde the decision to dig myself and my family deeper from massive phone calls I was getting from Debbie Hubbert, Mick McFarland, Charlie Earl. It gave a signal that shit was going down. It took me a few years after to disconect, but I did. Thank you.
Marketa,
What a beautiful, touching, sad, HAPPY, post, telling a story many of us know from our own experience. Great joy to read how finally light has replaced the darkness.
The major point that helps and gets people out of there, is shattering and exposing the implant that leaving the CoS is the end of everything of value in life, and demonstrating it is exactly the opposite!!
So happy for you, Marketa, keep enjoying freedom and life!!
And a big well done to you Mike, you have been there for many of us when it mattered!
Isn’t it great to be free? 🙂 🙂
Hemi
Sorry, ooops.. Mareka. All the rest is true… 🙂
Hi Hemi, What a beautiful,true post.Thank you from my heart.Ann B.
Beautiful Mareka. I agree about Mike and his help. I also name you as one of the heros. You have great courage and I am so happy that you have created such a wonderful and happy life.
Brilliant of you, too, Mareka. And of course, it’s now all but a feit accompli, thanks to the tireless efforts of those determined souls, like Mike and his fellow whistleblowers around the planet, who have begun the unenviable job of hacking thru’ the tentacles of this blood-sucking, soul-less monstrosity.
(Note to OSA. You have been made busier than ever, FRANTICALLY, desperately, so. (I have seen your handi-work today, ole.:) ) But just lock onto the above post for a moment, and imagine (if you somehow can!), that this could be you again, recovering your OWN mind, instead of it being OWNED! You have the ability to differentiate, within you. Your owner will flush you mercilessly down the toilet, after first crushing, the last vestiges of decency, from your hapless existence. It doesn’t have to be that way. You ought to be, and deserve to be, made aware of that. DMind control, ain’t what it’s cracked up to be, you’ll see.)
Thank you for sharing that Mareka…..so many acts of kindness have been quietly performed. The people who perform them don’t expect (or need) the false adulation of the (fewer and fewer) masses to acknowledge their actions.
But, I do think we should award certificates and titles since they are free!
Therefore, Mike, you are hereby awarded the ‘Patron Maximus Pain In COB’s Gluteus Maximus’ award for your ability to be at cause over COB’s tiny little ass.
Agree …. +1000
We will need to acknowledge Marty and Mike with this very special award ……….. soon!
This is a great story Mareka. Mike what about starting a fund for people that want to leave the Sea Org but have nothing? I would be willing to contribute. They may want to leave but have no where to go?
Hi Pete2, Good to meet you.I have thought about that too.What will happen to those that want out,but have nowhere to go.The scary part is I,can see registrars prowling around and making a beeline for the oldsters just out, to take any money that might have been given them and con them into coming back in.It’s terrible but the nature of the beast.It is a quandry! Always Ann B.
It is an honor to present to you:
The Merit Badge of Nobility,
the highest honor from the Academies of the Mark Marco School of Thought, for your relentless drive to expose the Truth, your acts of valor in the quest to tear down the walls of the Prison of Belief, and for providing the platform from which all are encouraged to express their personal belefs and doubts, whatever they may be. On behalf of the oppressed, thank you for showing light where The Church of Darkness has, until we the masses were given a voice, prevailed. You have made winners of us all.
Mareka, You did the right thing despite personal loss and hard, dark times for a bit. Congrats to you for doing the right thing. You were rewarded with a life better than any you had imagined while in the cult. And Mike, thank you so much for all the standing up you did. Your speaking out has saved lives, and your participation in the “Going Clear” documentary saved even more lives. Very well done to Lawrence Wright, Alex Gibney, Mike Rinder, and every person who has come out of the church and spoken up about the abuses.
Hi Mareka, I am most pleased to meet you. Your post was beutiful and really moved me.You seem as a light to show that no matter what horrors we have from cos and the whole ball of wax, somehow we can rise up and fly away and make our own path,not owned by Ron or David.Mike should be right up there with all who are working so hard to do what is right.He saved my life and I’m sure many more.His heart is bigger, stronger, and purer than Ron’s David’s and the entire rotten empire of Sci.You may have money David ,but trust me the Storm is coming for you.Love Ann B.
Great Mareka – and as an aside it clears up a 6-year mystery for me. When I met Marty and Mike in London that November they said they were going to Oxford for a day or two. I couldn’t think who they might be seeing. NOW I know! Glad they did and delighted it’s all working out for all concerned. Ah – the sweet sweet smell of freedom.
Wonder post, Mareka! You went through the “grinder” and came out the other side. These last 6 years must have been incredible for you and your family. I wish for you all the love, health and happiness the universe has to offer.
May the best day of your past, be the worse day of your future. TAKE THAT dwarf boy!
The ship is sinking Davey boy and there ain’t no lifeboats.
Have a great day!
MH,
Joe
I just wish it was going down a little faster. And a bit more spectacularly! I want a big splash and the boat upside down. Someone should get on film his last gulp of seawater before he goes down.
And the sharks are circling the ship….
OSD, even a shark wouldn’t eat that. Henry
Damn! Once again, I stand corrected. Thanks Henry.
Hi Mike,OMG A Trillion Congratulations to all of you that worked so hard on Going Clear… Fantastic. May we all keep moving on up till The Cult is cooked and done for good.Worthwhile?I bet my life it is! Much Love to you both.I will be smiling all day! XXOO Ann.
I’m reading through the letters written by the accountant as published by the TBT … I am sorry, I haven’t completed reading them, but it reminds me of this parody of the Twelve Days of Christmas.
http://jokes.cc.com/funny-police—military/ol3rpe/the-12-days-of-christmas
He starts off in full faith. Then he doesn’t get a reply. His full faith dwindles. He becomes frustrated. He still writes. He becomes angry. He becomes angrier. Tommy Davis visits him . … I’ll have to finish reading later.
So sorry, but between those letters and a “cat in a box” video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPzNl6NKAG0
I accidentally stumbled on, I’m in stitches. How can I relate a cat in a box to an accountant at a church??
Today is another great article, Mike. I keep swearing I won’t post anymore, keep swearing I’ll stop reading your blog, and I can’t. I’m starting “Rinder Addicts Anonymous.”
Hi Nickname,Now you see why this was the only Blog to find me,the only one I would ever feel I could post on.All the others are really good,but Mike’s got right under my skin first post and I’ve sailed with it to more peaceful waters for my spirit,when stuff gets rough for me ,this is my Home Port.Ann B.
We are all very glad you are here Ann. I love your posts….keep em coming!
I echo Newcomer’s comments, Ann B. We’re all very glad that you’re here and your wonderful posts!
hi OSD, Beach Party of The Century that will be fabulous, you and your wife are the sweetest ever! Always Ann B.
My wife MUCH more than me. She’s actually made out of love.
Hi OSD,Loved your post! Hey Walter did you hear what OSD said about his wonderful wife? What you can’t hear me? I’ll just have to keep bugging you… Laughter! Always Ann B.
Hi Newcomer, I thank you so much.Vice-versa for your posts also.I like reading different points of view because in the end I feel we all want that little dictator out! Always Ann B.
to Ann: I ditto Newcomer, especially the love part.
Hi Mark Marco, And I ditto your sweet post and say I especially love the love part of your postings, Always Ann.
I met Jim Jackson 18 years ago when I was trying to recruit him for my business. I was impressed by his integrity and courage. I know some very prominent Scientologists who’s ass was saved by him when no other CPA was willing to touch them. I am sure that as gratitude they dropped him as a stone.
Jim has not disappointed me since.
You’re right, Mike. I too, read that article last night. It was yet another powerful piece by Joe Childs, and coming on the heels of the Emmy wins made for a great Saturday night. I pity those within arms reach of Dear Leader for the next few days, as he is probably apoplectic with anger.
Couldn’t have happened to a better (worse?) person. Miscavige’s blackened, withered excuse for a soul is certainly writhing in it’s own personal hell about now. It certainly sucks to be him right now and I don’t envy his pathetic sycophants who will bear the wrath of his frustration for their inability to contain this mother of all cluster fucks. Kudos to Alex Gibney and Joe Childs. Can’t wait for the next documentary to be released.
It’s a wonderful day for all of us. Thank you Mike for posting the great news and link to the Tampa Bay Times story.
I am filled with gratitude right now to not only Mike, Alex, Lawrence … and so many others having to do with the documentary but to Jim Jackson and to Joe Childs (and Tobin) and his (their) relentless exposure to the church and its abuses. Thank you so much!
I am filled with gratitude for all us who have shown such courage and gone through hell to expose the abuses of the church of scientology and david miscavige.
It is amazing they way all this data is finally, finally, finally getting out to the public. I was trained by the church to believe that ANYONE who speaks out about the church to media is to be declared. Mostly all of everything these supposed declarable people are coming out and saying are facts. The church is unable to explain why these facts were never ever detected by the church other than to admit their fault. 🙂
Eventually those still in have to say (and in the famous words of Tom Cruise in Risky Business),
“What the fuck!”
About the efforts to discredit Jackson: some Bunker posters noted how very many Karin Pouw statements there were, not like the usual form e-mail. Did she actually get on the phone with the TBT, or meet face-to-face? That would be the first time in years (pretty much since you left, Mike) that a spokesperson has actually been so accessible.
No. It’s just letters and emails. Over a long period Joe has been working on this story.
I told the Bunkeroos that’s what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation.
Congratulations to HBO, to Alex Gibney and to everyone who took part. Exposing the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology is a good thing to do, and that film is a fantastic exposee, but only of part of the evil that the Co$ does…
Hi Jens TINGLEFF, It is a good good day.Yes this is only part of the evil for sure, but don’t you feel as I do, that the cracks are opening,the wheels are coming off, and all of us here whom were seen as liars because cos said we were,well we were and are telling our Truths,and we are rolling.Always Ann B.
I love the smell of an ASS WHOOPIN in the morning. Kudos to all who made this happen, and it is ONLY THE BEGINNING you pansy ass punks.
Yo OSA,
Today might be a good day to step off the boat to hell!
Hi TommyJ,So good to,post to you.Yes only the beginning… so so glad you are with me as we journey on to the Dawn.Love Ann.
…it smells like victory!
Anne, OSD, and newcomer – is that the door I just creak open? Its happening my friends, slowly but surely its happening!
Hi TommyJ,Yes I feel it in my old bones.We all have stirred the pot to a mighty boil and who knows what miracles may come! I feel so,proud that I get to comm with and call you all my Forever Friends. Love Always Ann B.
Hey! My old bones too, Ann B!
I fear Jim Jackson is barking up the wrong tree here.
Denise Brennan, and others who were involved in the Corporate Sortout were clear; The entire structure of Corporate CoS is a shell game, designed to obfuscate. Jeffrey Augustine’s continued research seems to confirm this.
Anything that puts more pressure on the Corn COB is fine by me, though
I am part way through the 44 pages of documentation related to the Jim Jackson Tampa Bay Times story, and have watch the videos. It is clear that Jackson is sincere, learned, well-spoken and quite knowledgeable concerning the church’s situation. I feel this is right up there with The Truth Rundown and the Cook Letter.
If you have not read these documents, do so.
While we may differ on philosophical matters, I applaud Jim’s courage and willingness to publicly take a stand.
Now this is truly worth a 2 hour standing ovation and salute to boot!
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE this news, but aren’t the Emmys next week? on the 20th?
This is what they call the Creative Arts Emmys. There were like 100 of them. They are given a week before the big live televised “prime time” Emmys. But they are exactly the same just different categories. Oscars do the same thing. Oscars have documentary category in main show and Emmys don’t for some reason
Hi Mike, As you can see I do not know a creative arts Emmy from an Emmy period.But my first post still stands It is wonderful Ann.
All Emmys are Emmys.
Both the Oscar and Emmy academies split up the awards programs into the popular portion that everybody wants to see (Best Picture, Best Actor, etc.) and the more technical and backstage areas that are interesting mainly to those in the trade (Outstanding Hairstyling for a Multi-Camera Series or Special, or Outstanding Main Title Design, for instance).
It does seem curious that Best Documentary is treated as a technical/creative award by the Emmys but part of primetime for the Oscars, but it is what it is.
Nevertheless: they get the same Emmy statue as all the other Emmy winners, all of them being “real” Emmys.
An edited version of yesterday’s award show will air next Saturday in FXX (cable), and big show for the main awards will air live the following day on Fox.
I don’t know if yesterday’s Creative Emmy winners/nominees can attend the primetime show, my guess is probably (I’m not in the business).
Another interesting note: programs that first air on TV are disqualified for Academy Award consideration, but because Going Clear had a strategic one-week theatrical run in both LA and New York prior to airing on HBO (for this very reason), it can be considered for an Oscar.
I think the 2016 Oscar nominations will be announced some time next January, and the buzz seems to be that winning the Emmy for best doco is a good sign for an Oscar nod.
Go Team Alex!
Hi Steve Friedl, Good to meet you.Thank you so much for helping me understand all the Awards stuff.You wuold think living in Hollywood for four years I might have absorbed some of all that,but I was busy Sea Orging Away.I would love to see Going Clear receive an Oscar.Boy wuold certain people be pissed. Always Ann B.
It will be great to see Mike, Tom DeVo and the other rock stars on stage with Alex at the Dolby Theater.
Yeah, DM is more and more of a schizophrneic guy. He can’t avoid seeing EVERY truth about his own dishonesties and LRH’s ones exposed everywhere.
Mike, this new piece is quite epic, as much for it’s authentic background, as for the content. But then, with as much ‘blood’ stained evidence, (not to mention the irrefutable ‘DNA’) of the perps, there it is… bared naked in all it’s ignominy, for all to see. ‘D'(M’s) – Day in court, is surely appearing as ominous to him, as those proverbial dark clouds on the horizon. 🙁
This entire saga of the most paranoid / schizo ecclesiastical leada / bully, (ever to lead a ‘religion’,) replete with the guile of a warmongering quasi dictator, again brings the nagging question to mind …
— Do you believe, that Miscavige masterminded the entire ‘necessary’ isolation of Hubbard, with the surreptitious intent of his complete removal from all access to the facts, and comm lines to his (LRH’s) closest allies ? (who may have managed to expose the treasonous messenger under his nose!) All this, while concealing his grand plan to seize complete control of the movement, once the founder was ‘taken care of’ (a la Mary Sue, et al.) ??
I have come to the conclusion, that Hubbard’s ‘isolation’ and demise, were as systematically and ruthlessly carried out, in the vein of a true cold-blooded sociopath.
Your quick summary thoughts on this, would be appreciated.
racingintheblood39, EL Con hisself first engineered his isolation due to his illegal acts which caused the gov to be searching for him. As he refused to get his own ethics in he had to remain in hiding. Add to that his DISASTROUS plan to infiltrate the US Gov via the G.O. (which M.S.H. ran) and you have the nessesity of a seraration between them. From THAT it was fairly easy to “keep the ball rolling”. Marty detailed all of that already. The basics are also well known by the MANY people who were around back then in the church. What other Q’s do you have???
Well, thanks for YOUR feedback, John. Though, as you can see, the summary was directed to Mike himself. I felt, as I still do, that he would certainly be well qualified enough, to answer for himself. BTW, Janet Reitman’s “Inside Scientology” covered your points thoroughly, too.
Marty, incidentally, has made a dramatic turn-around, since his publishing of “31 Factors.”
On the other hand, I could ask; Q; Are you actually better qualified to answer for Mike?
racingintheblood39, I see that you have no more material Q’s on the subject. Glad I could help.
John , you can’t help some clams.there never going to except the real l. Ron.Hubbard. That he only wanted power and money.
Let’s just be thankful that most clams are in there golden years, and that no body new is coming in. And then scientology well just be a foot note in the history books.
Gary, with all due respect, calling people names, just because they have different or even opposite views from yours, is a CoS typical trait that does not work in the long, intelligent run. And yes, Ron used it too often also, and I think it was a fault of his. Other things he did/said were great. Humbly suggesting to speak/write on topic and drop ad hominem. It usually weakens ones argument.
Hemi, ” a fault of his (El Con)”?
Do you consider his pistol whipping a woman, kidnapping, threatening to cut a baby up into pieces, locking up small children in dangerous dungeon like conditions, trying to destroy a child holocaust survivor, ET AL as mere “faults” too?
Or, is you confront of evil lower than that of an earthworm?
Hemi, Sunshine. Spare your energy/respect, being humble with these birds! BIGOTRY has no room for reason/ARC/tolerance. Does it boys? -Labels? You want to dish out labels? Well how about -F–k-ing Rude, Arrogant, immature, deteriorated spirit, aberrated beyond belief, incapacitated in differentiation, completely bereft of compassion, obsessive/compulsive fixation to prove others wrong, Invalidate without hesitation. Oh, and the pinnacle of all ‘labels’ ; ” NEVER WRONG” !!!!
— How am I doing boys? I have (much) more, but this is Mike’s Blog — and I really respect him. So if you wan’t to continue this shit, we can always go outside. HOW ABOUT IT?… .. lotsa love, (I DO mean that!) and other physical kicks, (street fighter) (Which I love even more!)
anytime, racing XXXXX.
—There, Hemi! How’s my invitation sound?? 🙂
Charles Dickens would have termed your comment an “ejaculation”.
Well Gary you’re right. Clams will be clams.
One night, I was having linguini with clams with a white sauce. It was terrific! However, with each clam I ate, it hearkened back to when we were all clams on some distant shore. I hope I didn’t eat a future scientologist!
Hi OSD,Your post is hysterical.I know we are all very strong spirits here,we had to be to leave cos in any form.However I do like how nice you play even when riled up. As one poster put it We are on the same Team.Sometimes name calling and word games can go on ad infinitum.Did I have enough of that thank you.And no I am not saying we should be like JT and everything is so beautiful here either.I know I can post any emotion to you and you have a wonderful way of answering and telling me if I am on the wrong track.Love,Ann.
Well you see, that’s exactly my point. You are so right and know it all that anybody else’s views, demonstrare eartworm qualities and worse. What next, you’ll send me to Ethics..? 🙂 I have done my modest share of fighting the CoS, suffered the consequences (disconnection) and don’t need forced ad hominem “lessons” on that. Also being a son of Holocaust suvivors I don’t like the lighthanded use of that issue in off topic discussions.
Relax man, the topic here was “Going Clear” the Emmy awards, the great work done by gibney and many others as an important human rights achievement!! Me and my wormlike qualities are of no interest here… By the way I do have also criticism on some aspects of Alex’s documentary, but this is not the time, nor the place for that. Today I celebrate the good news, the strong impact and great message to all, set by these wonderful awards.
Hemi
Hemi, you aren’t the first person to discipline John and you won’t be the last but I think you put it out there quite sportingly.
Atta Girl, Hemi 🙂 You said it all, the best! 🙂
And yes, thanks for restoring the focus to the topic.
We can be dignified, and still make our point/s. without stooping to these ad hom, levels.
I, however, am immersed in a very different working environment, where one literally ‘fights’ for survival.
Looking forward to a change in the near future though.
Keep on, keeping on, it really is wonderful to see your spirit so filled with positivity & enthusiasm.
Cal. 🙂
OSD, careful! Don’t make your fingers open and close. You might “key in” any clams in the vicinity.
racingintheblood39-
That post, that begins with “Hemi, Sunshine.” is truely remarkable.
Thank you for expressing so well the message I so much and so often wish to express only to find myself stifled, conscious that I would most likely come off as arrogant when, really, I just want to say and make real this idea, that what we say is lost or found in how we say it. Thank you. Let me quote now Ruiz, from his work, The Four Agreements:
Be impeccable with your words.
Hi Mark. Well thank you for your kindness. I do appreciate your gesture. . In my working world, filled with real mortal danger, I really enjoy a break from that, by popping in to a blog such as this where we can find many intelligent, enlightening discussions.
Mike’s unflappable humor, makes it all so much more enjoyable, and I find I ‘need’ that, after a lengthy stint among the gang warfare.
Stay as sharp and ‘light’ as you can, my bro’.
== Calvin. 🙂
Let it go, racingintheblood39…let it go.
LOL! Jeez, fellow. you’ve missed something. I been done dat way back too!
— ( Only way we gets to move on… brudder!) 🙂
Here’s another, John. Q; When did you first set foot in a scn establishment ?
’68. Although you have now stopped asking questions about Flubbard and his wild ride with Miss Cabbage. 😉
Hey, man. It’s your view. We’re free to have ’em these days. How ’bout we celebrate that, fellow old timer? (There, that acceptable?) 🙂
John, mine was ’71. And it was in Hollywood.
And guys….please keep in mind that we’re all on the same team.
OSD, I definitely get that you prefer to be a “lover, not a fighter” well, that’s the best way to shine, man. So keep it comin’ bro’ 🙂 My life is such that I have no choice, but to be involved in the ‘heavy stuff’ . It’s an unbelievably dangerous neighborhood. So you do what you’re trained to do. But hey, I’ve learned not to sweat the small stuff. Life’s too short to be serious, though you don’t have to take shit from anyone. Put them in their place, if no one else will.
Just keep up the infectious humor, goofy-foot, ’cause it’s so deliciously infectious!! 🙂
1974, me
Aha, Mark! Similar gains? Due to getting the gist of the experience, when the movement was still fun and rewarding? (Which it mostly was, btw, that is, UNTIL the game got too “serious”, hey?? 🙂 )
Wait… were there Tshirts? I never got my team tshirt!
It’s all a bit weird, the relationship of exes and indies. It’s like a gay (man) and a lesbian – the only reason we are considered one “team” is due to homophobia. Otherwise, we have little in common at all.
But thankfully, we’ve learned to play well with each other. Sadly, it took the AIDS epidemic to bring us together.
gtsix, well, that’s the way it rolls, it ‘seems’ Playing well with each other, need not take / have taken the AIDS epidemic, to bring us together.
The awareness to see one who is manifestly ‘human’, quite adequately does the job too, imho.
Another factor, is the capacity for GRATITUDE, which tends to reveal purely selfish needs, as being quite primitive.
At the end of the day, gtsix, we may come to realize, we actually do have more than a little in common, after all. 🙂
— Calvin.
Going after Jim Jackson is a very BAD idea!
Yes…yes it is. But strong is the Kool-Aid in the remaining 25,000 members (worldwide).
ClearMF – That strikes me as true, I do pray it is true, and repeat my willingness to support his cause.
Louis Theroux has also made a $cientology documentary, and it’s coming out in a few short weeks. Dwarfe Malignante is really going to freak out when it arrives. Who will go to the Hole next? Oh wait, everyone at Gold above janitor ALREADY IS in the Hole. Maybe he’ll bring in some Org staff and put THEM in the Hole!
And he can put everybody already in the Hole into the Double Secret Hole.
Right. Just like the RPF’s RPF, there can also be the Hole’s Hole 🙂 Just dig out a basement underneath the double-wides.
Oh, but then the Hole would fall into the Hole’s Hole…oh, well, I’ll rethink this and get back to you, Captain.
I’m being so silly but can’t help it.
What? Who?
That’s serious. I need to know who… WHO can put the hole in the hole?
That is the description of the Devil and I need to understand what do you mean and, please, who are you referring to, ?, and briefly why, thanks.
…ok, you’re being silly. But, help me understand the joke, thanks.
Wednesday October 14 is Theroux’s release date (on the BBC, not sure when we’ll get to see it Stateside).
Hey James! They’re going to need a few more trailers to hold all of the DBs and SPs……..Oh! And all the CICSs too.
Yes today is not a good day to be Miscavige (as if any day ever is) and it’s not a good day to be a Churchie either I suppose. You can’t tell me at least half the 25,000 or so sheeple in the US didn’t watch the Emmys.
Congrats and high fives to Mr. Gibney, HBO, Larry Wright !!!!!!!
More please.
The scilons were probably ordered to not watch the Emmys. But, I hope not! 🙂
The Creative Arts Emmy show will be broadcast on FXX next week, the day befor ehte prime time Emmy Awards.
Ooo. Thanks. Good to know.
Perhaps for the SO standing order, but really, could Miscavige dare order the entire flock to NOT WATCH THE EMMYS ??
Not a chance. It may have been rumored about however, all the better.
The Monkey Man got f**j’ed last night is the bottom line.
Well, the only thing the Dwarf can do now is order his captive celebrity flock to not attend the big Emmy show next week. Gee, no Krusty, no Elisabeth Moss, no Laura Prepuce. What will the Emmys do?!
Right! Scientology actors will be FORBIDDEN to attend the Emmy Awards.
To do so will be a Suppressive Act!
OMG, this is too much. I have to take another walk.
And, just think, they also could be forbidden to attend the Oscars if GC is nominated!
Aquamarine, I share your celebratory state of consciousness. We all know these have been trying times for the Naked Emperor and now Alex Gibney whom he devotedly slimed publicly has been rewarded with three Emmys! That has to sting a bit. But wait, there’s a highly respected OTVIII with a smart plan, who LOVES scientology calling for internal scientologists to mount a coup against His Grace. We all know His Eminence isn’t the most trusting of Pooh-Bahs in fact he’s PARANOID AS HELL so he’s going to be wondering if some people are conspiring against him or if EVERYBODY is. This unfolding drama is full of cheers and high-fives unlike anything I’ve ever seen outside of a cineplex. It just keeps getting better and better and the popcorn just keeps on flowing!
Roger, I second that. Just to play DMon’s Advocate here; do you realize, that there probably isn’t another billionaire on the planet, that carries the sheer scale of combined hatred, charge, overts and paranoia of persecution and fear of retribution?
This bird must have topped out the scale of insanity by a record breaking, ceiling scorching, factor of Zenu-esque 75,000,000 X “sheeples-are-coming-after-me!!!”.
“Since every last f&(%$(G one of those GSCOHB BT’s, KNOWS that I am the only ‘Superior Being’ who holds the key which keeps them locked into those F–%*@$ G volcanoes for their next Quadzillion F–king lifetimes!!”
—– “F—-ck!! — wheeeeze! cough, rasp, gurgle, spit!
— Where’s My F–king Asthma pump, you cadaver brain?
(Sorry) –The ending for this misguided, pathetic specimen, is just too horrible to contemplate!!
I’ll walk with you Aqua, just to be by your side, nothing really to say.
We can hope Ronn S. But the ratings indicate that out of any 25,000 people, maybe a thousand MIGHT watch. But that doesn’t count word of mouth retelling of course. That’s where most clams will hear the good news. Even a couple of Indie sites where upset about the movie airing in March. They too will be gnashing their teeth over this.
Hi John Locke, I love the sound of teeth gnashing on the opposite bank.I gnashed my teeth too much in pain,fear and dispair my last SO months,I am sorry but it is time for me to dry my tears and get on with whatever I can do to help end the Cult Abuse.Always Ann.
go girl
Hi Mark Marco, Only if I can keep up with you! XO Always Ann.
Well said Ann!
Hi John Locke, Thank you kind Sir! XO Ann B.
Perhaps I was being optimistic John, one lives in hope (or should). Regardless it was not a good night for the flock. I still suspect Miscavige passed out drunk and disorderly.
I suspect something like that, too… very much so.
Well, to talk straight, I see the early signs of dementia, for real, in this man. It is not a stretch to say he his delusional. So many other red flags.
I do believe it is his destiny, at any rate.
There is, after all, no one to check him, there are no brakes, another serious factor.
No release, none to speak of. There is a breaking point, i believe, for each of us, if we walk that path.
but
For Emmys night, relax, it was just “passed out drunk and disorderly”,
me thinks.
Good call.
Very insightful post Mark Marco. I have a feeling you are on the right track with that line of reasoning.
John,
something has happened inside of me I think I’m falling in love with you.
A deliciously dangerous situation.
O, god, what will people think?
This is so good. And the cult still has to brace for The Golden Globes and The Academy Awards.
Unfortunately, the Golden Globes don’t have a Documentary category. I’m an Awards Season geek so I keep track of these things. I’m assuming (hoping) Going Clear will figure into many critics’ awards nominations and possible wins in the run-up to Oscar nominations, so whether or not it is nominated for an Oscar, we should hear the name a lot. Well, geeks like me will anyway. I’ll be following everything in the coming months.
Ooh, my first post here. *waves to everyone!* I’m a Never-In but I’ve been following (off and on) what the cult’s been up to since my high school Social Studies teacher showed us a critical video of Scientology in the ’70’s. I read all the early critical books and was charter subscriber to alt.religion.scientology (around for all the Erlich, Lerma, Kobrin, rmgroup, anon.penet.fi hoopla as well as when the Lisa McPherson mystery first came to light). I had to bow out and only delved occasionally over the next couple of decades. Of course, I could, since I had no personal stake. Exes, especially those Disconnected from loved ones, can’t just bow out. Fast-forward to Going Clear playing Sundance and I’ve been re-obsessed ever since. I’ll use my old a.r.s. Name, but on Twitter I’m Happy Rhodes Fan (@happyrhodesfan).
I would have expected Scn to fall long before now but they’re a damned Teflon cult. I can’t imagine what it’s like for long-timers. The wheels of justice are slow. This is an exciting time though, too long in coming, yes, but all this entheta is so much fun to watch! I’m so thrilled about the Emmy wins!
Hi Zenu’s Sister, Really good to meet you. Teflon Cult is a very apt description. I’m glad you have been interested for years with all that went and goes on.I know how very hard it is to untangle from cos even though my last year in SO was 78. The gory details are posted along Mike’s Magnificent way here. Always Ann B.
This is he start of the Avalnche of awards to come for Alex Gibney and the Going Clear team. Thank you for being a part of this film Mike. It is the first domino is the chain reaction that’s gonna topple the church.
Nice kudos, bbj! I can say this, though; To me, our host, Mike Rinder is definitely the most deserving of awards, and I feel and urge for that to happen, in the near future.
The main reason I see it this way, is for his broad appeal across so many fronts, due to his ability to penetrate to the core of relevant issues, without getting sucked into the HE&R baiting, typical of others. Stint at OSA served him well, I guess, LOL 🙂
Unsung hero, he be, and I know many others do agree with me.
Nonchalantly goes about his business, every day, seldom tempted to resort to the gutter sniping of others. Yet getting the job done, Undoing the damage, with his irrepressible humor.
That, to me, is the mark of a truly devoted, social guy, who understands how to keep a level head, while making a HUGE impact in dismantling this unprecedented, ‘religious’
vampire called the co$.
And the other thing i admire, is that he has managed to keep from the syndrome of “throwing the baby out with the bath water”, typical of so many others who have succumbed to that “solution” — Illogically throwing away ‘workable’ tools, as a result of others faulty, ill-intentioned use of them having caused much loss, pain and injury, is just silly to me.
IMHO, “Pick up the cans, please….” was actually designed to HELP man. That it has been so perverted, and used as a tool for exploitation, destruction and slavery, is a blight on the perversions of those responsible, past and present. True?
Using THE RIGHT TOOLS of Scientology to fix Scientology, CAN fix Scientology!
Failing to recognize (differentiate) that, may leave us out of the clutches of ‘mind controllers’, (hooray!) but then leaves us without the effective tools, to counsel (help) our friends in need
just my 2c chips. 🙂
Calvin.