The “Task Force” to “Save the Islands!”
Seriously?
Save them from what?
They cannot even save themselves. Hawaii has been a small and failing org for decades. And that is being kind. They actually barely exist. That’s why all the other orgs have to come to their rescue.
I wonder if they realize (probably nobody in Hawaii org is OT III) that this is one of the two most important locations on earth in the Xenu story (along with “Las Palmas” which is a mistake as that is the name of a city, not a volcano or even volcanic island…).
According to Hubbard’s theories, there must be a lot of VERY restimulated people constantly keyed in to their R-6 bank simply by being in the Hawaiian environment. They should be especially susceptible to the volcano image on the cover of Dianetics and therefore be compelled by their banks to buy it (this IS the theory of the volcano on the cover and all the other creepy images on the covers of the earlier editions of Hubbard’s books — they are all out of the R6 bank).
But if what Ron said is true, then how come the population of Hawaii is not stampeding down the doors? They are definitely operating in one of the two most restimulative places on earth, and Incident II is shared by everyone on earth according to Source. Though not to be picky, but there is a bit of a problem with the science. The oldest island of the Hawaiian archipelago was formed 28 million years ago, but Incident II took place 75 million years ago. Xenu’s spaceships that looked exactly like DC-8s didn’t have anywhere to land, it was all just ocean…
It makes you wonder if he had written OT III in the 70’s whether the transports to Teegeeack would have resembled 747’s rather than DC 8’s. They could have carried a lot more of the 76 x 178 billion thetans frozen in glycol because even at a million per DC-8 that would have required 13 million plus DC-8s to carry everyone to their doom — let alone all the H-Bombs).
But don’t let any of these things convince you this account is not based on really excellent whole track research.
AND it reads on the E-Meter. So it must be real.
P.S. If you type in MLS 925 Bethel Street Honolulu, Hawaii the building’s estimated worth is 4 million and change, not the 6 million that was paid.
Mike, how incredibly irresponsible to post LRH’s OT III material to the public.
First Covid19, then Murder Hornets, and now the Xenu info exposed to the unprepared masses! There is a reason such information is kept in a locked briefcase that is then handcuffed to a stern scientologist gestapo agent.
This shit causes cancer, my man!
I’m quite certain that Mike knows well and good the risks associated with divulging any and all of the con man’s secret bullshit to the public. Originally, con man figured he could use terror tactics to get people to obey him when he told them to never ever divulge any of his most top secret idiotic ravings and that all kinds of the most terrible consequences imaginable would befall the people who did not obey him. But most people just shook their heads at that and recognized it as lunacy and then they just went ahead and did whatever they wanted to do regardless of his attempts to terrorize them.
But I certainly would not try to scare people into keeping quiet about those imbecillic secrets. It is just my opinion, but when one person tells another person that if they ever divulge certain secrets, that all kinds of turrible plagues, epidemics, floods and curses will then do great harm to this world, most people will just recognize that as nonsense and they will then ignore those ridiculous threats and just do whatever makes sense to them. Why in the world should people ever cowtow to those kind of terror tactics? That just seems like nonsense to me. It is just my opinion, but I would encourage everyone to think for themselves and then choose to do whatever they believe makes the most sense.
Failing to do that is succumbing to the terror tactics of people who do not deserve to have any influence or control over you. I believe you will feel more powerful as a result of thinking things through for yourself and then choosing to do whatever makes the best sense to you. I also believe that will make you feel best about living the kind of life you choose to live.
I wish you the best of luck and a most happy life.
WHOA WHOA WHOA….HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE…….I CAN’T BELIEVE ANY OF THIS CARP…..
OK OK OK…SO I am A “NEVER IN”…………….BUT even I know that :
Pele is Hawaii’s Goddess of Fire & that Pele’s spirit lives in Kilauea volcano………………and that she created all of the Hawaiian Islands……….
SO when it comes to “XENU”…..exactly WHAT Volcano did he “do the deed in” & destroy all those bad “people”………..I am more than confused……. & just WHERE the HELL does Xenu live now….PELE sure as HELL isn’t going to be sharing ANY of HER Volcanos with him…SHE CREATED THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS…..& does NOT want a “room mate”.
Sooo…when I was much younger, decades ago before Hawaii became a REAL “tourtist trap”…myself & three friends went to “the BIG Island” & then a few smaller islands….Just beautiful at the time, not too many crowds….and the hotel rates & food & entertainment was cheap.
Decided to surf at Diamondhead…big mistake. Paddling out was no problem…coming back in by .”shooting the curl” almost cost me my life.
My long board was clipped b y another surfer…throwing both of us separate ways OFF our boards. I ended up at the opposite end of where I had begun.
Found my board and walked back to where my “non surfing buddies” were anxiously waiting. The blood had drained out of their faces when my BFF said “WE thought you were dead”…..we saw you fly up in the air…and that was that….
Well, Pele must have been looking out for me, cause here I am some 50 years later.
Hawaii is such a pitiful SFO* that they don’t even have a moldering idle morge project building like the other worst-off orgs that at least managed to buy buildings even if they’ve been unable to raise the money to renovate them. There were rumblings about a year ago of the org having found a target building – I believe it was yet another of the cases where they failed to manage to buy it, though if anyone knows differently please post whatever information you have.
* small and failing org
Hawaii has purchased a building with the help from outside Scientologist flown in for the numerous fundraising events. Kelly Preston and John Travolta were key players in this endeavor. The building is featured on one of the promo pieces on this site.
They are in the process of fundraising for the renovations before they can move in.
Duped-Lie-Cated, thanks for that info about Hawaii. Do you have an address or anything?
Scientology has played bait-and-switch so many times, that I wouldn’t believe that a building has actually been purchased, unless there’s an address that can be checked against property records.
And of course some of these SFOs have been “in the process of fundraising for renovations” for almost 2 decades now, so even having bought a building doesn’t necessarily mean an “ideal” org opening anytime soon.
The address is 925 Bethel Street according to my sources. Please post what you find on the property records. Thanks!
Go to this web site and accept the agreements. Then enter the 925 Bethel Street. Click on Owners and the info will pop up. They paid 6 million for the building.
https://www.qpublic.net/hi/honolulu/search.html
The Hawaiian Islands didn’t even exist when Incident III supposedly happened. Ron came up with this story before the idea of Plate Tectonics was the scientific consensus. These volcanoes are on top of hot spots that are underneath the tectonic plates. So where they are today is not where they were yesterday or will be tomorrow. This is an example where science caught up with his BS, like the “Trains” on Venus.
Expecting any coherence to Ron’s tall tales is self-defeating as he often didn’t connect the beginnings of his sentences or paragraphs to the ends, and the middles could go ANYwhere. That’s a major reason that his “scifi” didn’t have any staying power in the genre. They didn’t make sense even as fantasy.
Hubbard was receiving a penny a word writing for the pulps when Ayn Rand had her novels published in hard covers and adapted for motion pictures. Some of Ayn Rand’s works are still in print while Hubbard’s works have to be published by an internal department of the Church of Scientology.
Right, otherles: No reputable publisher will risk its loyal readers with Tubby’s unentertaining word-salad fiction. SciFi readers are forgiving of many things, but it has got to be a good STORY, first and foremost. Tubby didn’t do none of that….
EDITING is something his stories could have have used, if only to get the easy fact-checking and consistancy checks done so readers didn’t write in complaining of his rampant careless mistakes. Galaxy Press, AFAICT, has NO reason to worry about losing sales due to Tubby’s tired and tattered prose. They simply follow Davey-Boy’s orders to the best of they ability.
Excellent way to describing how Flubs stepped in it again, you nailed it!
King R. Additionally hubbard chose a period dated by scientists to be when the dinosaurs extinction occurred because of some huge cataclysmic. Remarkable, indeed.
Gonna have to stop you right there. I still have my train-fare ticket from when I traveled the dark side of Venus in 1951.
La Palma, not Las Palmas, is the name of one of the Canary Islands, and it has a caldera.
SSOA, it(Los Palma) is a caldera NOW, but didn’t exist beyond about 2 million years ago, never mind 76,000,000 YA. Neither did the Hawaii Island chain. Geography wasn’t one of his strong points.
Come to think about it, what WAS a strong point of his, other than outrageous tall tales and shirking work and his responsibiliies? He certainly wasn’t a polished word smith; more of a word-salad generating machine.
Regarding Reads on OT 3
Perhaps if it reads it’s because the human body reacts vigorously to the very idea of being possessed by demons. Perhaps it’s not bt’s reading but one’s own reach into any area of the body to do a demon (bt) search and the body reacts with a flinch of horror or your own intrinsic horror at the very idea of entities hidden away. Just do the math on nearly 8 billion humans now with each having thousands of bt’s, it’s ridiculous! Most of the volcano’s on Hubbards list didn’t even exist back then as the earth’s crust is in flux and not a constant. And being that it was an interplanetary operation, supposedly, the DC-8 with wings designed to provide atmospheric lift would be unsuited for interplanetary travel as there would be better choices available. And the pilot saying “he’s mocking it up”, why would frozen entities in the back of the plane have heard the pilot say anything at all let alone that. So why is hearing the pilot say that an EP in any way shape or form? OT3 is horseshit.
H Long,
When i first read OT3, mid 1970s, the first though was WTFFFF! But I got great reads and played along. I worked at a science university and confirmed the volcanoes were either not there at the time or were dormant at the time. But still I got reads.
After a bit it occurred to me, having read Crowley and that Magicians use animal spirits, that i could be getting reads on animal spirits I was/had been connected with. AH Ha ! moment. When i contacted an old-timer VIII auditor he concurred that the best way to view Hubbard’s scrawl was that it was allegory, and a huge generalization and case evaluation. He thought that if Hubbard thought the script was factual then Hubbard was unhinged.
Anyone who has lived a farm life has experiences of herding cows, rabbits, and chickens (etc); capturing them, killing them, slaughtering the bodies, and eating them: And that is an allegory to Hubbard’s script. I found that I had pics of long connections with such critters.
Jim, yeah that gives me something to ponder. Especially because I too have a farm background. Not only that I was an avid hunter of deer, rabbits, pheasants and quail as well as a trapper of muskrats, racoons etc. when I was younger and who knows what all I could have accumulated. I wonder why they’d respond to those particular incidents though? Or how would animal souls be language savy and able to understand the auditing terminology. Food for thought though, thanks. I may have more to respond with after this sinks in some more.
Harden
harden,
I did not run them on the OT3 incident. But rather any incident where they were run down, captured, killed, messed with (cut up) , and ended up in a human body. Just saying.
What you might find useful would be Chakra Healing books like:
https://smile.amazon.com/Wheels-Life-Users-Chakra-System/dp/B00PBF6CFG/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1VONRJ0JHVUIA&dchild=1&keywords=chakra+books&qid=1589506516&sprefix=chakra%2Caps%2C219&sr=8-6
or: https://smile.amazon.com/Llewellyns-Complete-Book-Chakras-Definitive-ebook/dp/B07DGZW2PD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1VONRJ0JHVUIA&dchild=1&keywords=chakra+books&qid=1589506624&sprefix=chakra%2Caps%2C219&sr=8-5
What if the vast majority of humans are inhabited by animal souls from the top on down? Would explain why so few ever exteriorize and go bopping around and explain a lot of animalistic behavior. I remember reading that one of the early pioneers of the indie movement claimed to have discovered their are a hierarchy of beings that came into being at different times, for different purposes and with differing abilities. And what if by running OT3 one gets flat on the idea of other entities or bats in their belfry so to speak and opens the door wide for an invasion that could unseat them as host being? Black Dianetics, sorcery to demonize someone? Could that have been Hubbard’s intent all along, open people up to his demonic forces? Not to say they really existed just to say Hubbard believed they did.
harden,
Now you have moved into Magic, as in Aleister Crowley’s ‘Magick in Theory and Practice’.
Many American Indian tribes considered that, in killing and eating an animal for food, they also took on the spirit of that animal and was hence responsible to incorporate that spirit.
Harden, couldn’t OT3 read simply because the auditor is telepathically guiding the subject? Given Scientology’s belief in Thetans’ powers over MEST, it would seem to follow that it would be possible, if not even expected. And if not, there’s a lot of more mundane subtle suggestion and and building of expectations going on – not the least of which is the mysterious appearance of the volcano on the cover of Dianetics, something that may have left members wondering in the back of their minds.
I’ve made a longer response about this to George earlier, below.
HardenLong quipped:”OT3 is horseshit.”
And there’s a full load of bovine-derived fertilizer leading up to OT III.
Here is a “fact so obvious it’s impossible to see” for blind believers: If souls are not matter energy space and time, how can a chemical compound entrap a soul not made up of matter. How can you stick a material world syringe in a non material substance.
Kinda like hurting the air by throwing a stone at it.
What blind belief does to a mind. And for that matter what blind doubt does as well.
Both have fixed conclusions, that information gets filtered through, which denies opposing facts because of those fixed ideas and they call it “reason” or “the truth”.
I go searching for those mental conditionings in my self and attempt to eradicate them. Usually it’s subjects that I have arrogance in. Blind faith and blind doubt are the philosophy of religious fundamentalists and materialists. They are the same people flipped inside out.
Must be true/must not be true
Good similé, Brian:
“Kinda like hurting the air by throwing a stone at it.”
Makes a LOT more sense than Tubby’s ramblings.
Plus Blubbard said “alcohol and glycol was injected. What a nimrod, glycol IS alcohol.
“Glycol, any of a class of organic compounds belonging to the alcohol family; in the molecule of a glycol, two hydroxyl (―OH) groups are attached to different carbon atoms. The term is often applied to the simplest member of the class, ethylene glycol.”
That’s like adding water to water so as to water it down.
Blubbard once again failed to do his homework but yet he sold it!?! Hard to believe!
Your comments about the Hawaiian islands being formed 28 million years ago reminded me of a conversation I had with my auditor years ago. He told me about the Earth being billions or trillions of years old according to Hubbard. I told him that most scientist don’t think the Earth is that old. He kind of laughed and said “that’s interesting isn’t it” and basically implied that the scientists didn’t have a clue what they were talking about.
That’s the thing, Doug: blind believers will never “see” any evidence that upsets their belief system. It’s only after we’ve left the carefully-controlled environment of scientology that we can start to think for ourselves.
I have had the very good fortune to visit Hawaii several times and I was never ‘keyed-in’ as a result of being in that tropical paradise. However, I did have an awful case of the flu there once, but I had it before I arrived and felt much better once I was there. Maybe just thinking of Hawaii keyed in my ‘OT case’ on that occasion. Nah… just like everything else in scientology, the Xenu stuff is all bullshit and just a money grubbing con.
I went to Hawaii after I left scientology. I had reached OTV in scientology before I left. When I visited Hawaii I had not yet rejected all things Hubbard.
That being said, I did not once think of scientology while in Hawaii and had an amazing time.
I still don’t equate scientology to OTIII. I equate OTIII to my first actual What the holy f@#* moment that led me to the path out.
I went to Maui, HW in 2018 for my wifes and I 35th Anniversary. And we went to the infamous Volcano. Having been a NOTS Auditor busily blowing BT’s everyday for 10 years, I had to go check it out. No BT’s in sight anywhere. Guess they all dead.
Yes, my attention went to that too when we bicycled down past the crater and all the way down the mountain. It looked so desolate with the observatory perched above and off to the right. Made me think of decayed space aliens right off the bat, didn’t catch a glimpse of one either. Thought of Blubbard though at first site of the pock marked giant rectal cavity looking empty lunar monstrosity.
There’s a word for Hubbard’s theories that I simply can’t use.
What about the theories you can simply use?
*LOL*
Back in the day when like you Mike I was the West US Programs Chief, We had a group of 3 that split all the Orgs in the West US. One of my Org Reports every week came by hard mail from my Flag Reps and LC’s. Every week was the same story HAW D and HAW F made about $900 GI every week. It was a sad situation. I also was assigned TC D and F, and STL. In hindsight I was given the bottom of the barrel.
Jeez Mike — you really were given the shit. But you didn’t get Albuquerque…
Albuquerque didn’t exist then! But I did 3 missions there after they became an Org in 1980. Love that ton
Considering the “history” of the volcanic islands, wouldn’t they be a place for Scientologists to avoid?
Yes, but the wogs don’t know any better. So the place is full of heavily keyed-in wogs dramatizing their R6 banks while laying on the beach or sitting around the pool…
Wow! So, Xenu’s whole purpose was to solve overpopulation. So is he maybe the dude who is spreading COVID-19 all around today? The effect is certainly reducing our planet’s population. And where’s Hubbard in all this mess?
Also, if so many California orgs are working (per the promo piece) to save “the islands” isn’t this entirely off policy about exchange?
I watched roughly the first 5 minutes of an interview with Hubbard. (YouTube The Truth Network) He says ” so on and so forth roughly once a minute. He slept with Mongolian Bandits and hunted with pygmies in the Philippines. Hubbard obviously loved to hear himself babble bullsh*t.
Gordon. I just gave a look at that video. Laughing. He is clearly saying lies. One after the other. And giving watered PR to don’t answer the questions.
Additionally, the video starts (before the interview) saying that the cult is the fast growing blabla with more than 1000 churches. Where are these churches?
Bunch of professional liars following step by step their master.
Gordon – LOL. That reminds me that L Ron Hubbard has filled his loaded cult language with the most stupid phrases as he talks his mumbo jumbo through those horrible, black rotten teeth. He obviously did not adhere to the Way to Happiness precept: “Brush your teeth”. What is super duper, really, really, really cringy and creepy is to hear Scientologists parrot Hubbard…and so on and so forth. You will hear them parrot Hubbard long after they leave Scientology if they have not deprogrammed. It is called “Scientologese” and it is the loaded language that keeps people floating between cult identity and true identity.
Okay. So it reads on the Emeter but there are scientifical anachronisms. Plus the logistics to bring all that frozen beings on Earth was an impossible task. To say that it may looks like a sci fi story.
But it reads on the Emeter….there must be an explanation to it.
My personal view is that we are just consciousness and we create through the mind (confusing ourself in its automatic thoughts) the life we live and the world we are in and what we think to be.
Maybe that particular indoctrination one gets on that level, makes his mind mechanism to generate a “reality” that reads.
Loosing my Religion.
You wrote: ‘My personal view is that we are just consciousness and we create through the mind (confusing ourself in its automatic thoughts) the life we live and the world we are in and what we think to be.’
IMO You have it! Straight from the Hermetic principles and a Chakra book quote I recall: The universe is exactly the way you think it is, and that’s why.
Thanks Jim for your comment and for the tip. You definitely meant Rybalion. I had never heard of it. Interesting. I’ll take a closer look at it.
Surely hubbard played a lot on self-induced suggestion.
Years ago approaching a certain type of meditation I saw for a moment how the mind acts automatically and how I was the one to see it and not to generate that thought.
This has kept me powerfully “keyed out” for over 3 months. It was like having stopped thinking.
Other than auditing. And who knows what reads I would have. Lol. Thanks Jim.
I think the WTF factor is what reads on the meter. You are trying so so so so hard to believe that you didn’t get all the way to the holy wall of fire only to find it’s a total crock of shit that you force reads because otherwise you’d be forced to admit you had been well and truly duped. It took me til OTV to say wow, this stuff isn’t worth doing, it’s all a crock. My mi d knew that at OTI when I,was out taking a walk and calling it an OT level but I had to believe or crack.
Yeah I think you’ve got it nailed down, the WTF factor is huge with all the build up Hubbard gave about the “dangers of getting through the wall of fire”.
How he was severely beaten up by going through it, a handy excuse for the ravages of drugs to blame it his wall of fire discovery.
So one would naturally approach the process with great trepidation and one would be wondering “what’s going to happen to me, am I going to catch pneumonia and die and or suffer broken bones?”
Hubbard heavily fed the fear factor and that alone can cause big reads!
ValR. Yes it is what I think too. Many people surely ask to themselves when they reach some upper level “it is really crap or it this just me?”. But they cannot talk about their case and if they think to have been wrong with all the money they have spent they will feel operating idiots.
Great topic for discussion. All of this reads on the e-meter. Why? I have asked myself that question. The way I look at it now is that Hubbard conditioned me to believe anything he said. But it is truly amazing. On OT III I said “I will run Xenu if it reads”. Biggest most powerful reads ever. And the reads were strong and constant. On OT VIII I said the same thing. I got major, major reads on at least twenty major IMPLANTS. But despite all of the money and all of the time and all of the reads, nothing changed. The idea of OT is purely subjective! These Scientologists as thus conditioned by Hubbard and they get READS. Hubbard then convinces you that the reads mean something. Actually, I discovered that the entire Xenu story was copied from Occult literature in the middle ages about Hell. Hubbard just updated it with space ships.
Correct George. That is why Hubtard didn’t leave it to the Solo auditor to find the incidents for themselves. There’s nothing to find until he tells the student the story.
Oh, so HORRIBLE! “dramatizing” while lazing at the beach at a tropical paradise! Ron seemed to LOVE sucking the fun out of EVERYTHING: Sex, vacations, etc. He also sucked the benefits out of the psychotherapies he plagiarized.
Maybe because by that time in his life he wasn’t having any more fun himself, i.e., sex, vacations, etc., so he resented these activities. Just a theory. Per his HCOPLs did seem to get angrier and more serious, bitter, even, starting in the late 70s. Possibly he and Mary Sue weren’t really a couple any more except in name only; maybe he was angry because of his son’s suicide. Possibly he was in physical pain. And on the lam, too. Just theories. Per his writings he just seemed more light-hearted in the 60s and 5Os is my sole point.
That’s what I always felt Aqua. If Tubbie couldn’t have fun NOBODY could.
Aqua, if I may … It was in the mid 1960s that LRH was obviously manifesting his ever increasing anger and bitterness against staff members. Lots of HCO PLs going over how bad staff/juniors were, NON COMPLIANCE! 40 something types of Dev-T they created, all the Crimes and High Crimes they could commit, Lower Conditions and Penalties , all the punitive ethics PLs, Comm Evs, the insane Joburg questions, etc. Then as he got into the 1970s, his focus was almost entirely on all the bad things people did, Integrity Procressing, Ls, Sec Checks in hard, EXDN (evil purposes), Happiness RD, False Purpose RD and on and on and on, culminating in his totally fucking insane and paranoid RS witch hunt of SO members. One thing we can be certain of … Ron was certainly not coming UP the tone scale as he aged and we can also observe him dramatizing his OWN evil purposes … Well, maybe since he “dropped the body”, he’s been auditing himself on those 15 OT levels above OT 8, and getting better … Yeah … Right …
George, one doesn’t have to wait until they get to the ‘OT’ levels and see if something reads on the meter to see the same results you observed. When I was in I had dreams of wanting to take dianetics to the streets and audit everyday Joes using ‘Book One’ techniques. After all, if it worked in the 50s and was as wildly successful as Hubbard claimed, why couldn’t I do the same thing in the 70s? I did have one ‘hidden standard’ though. I wanted to just grab a ‘pc’ and audit them without any indoctrination whatsoever. I failed on every try. They just couldn’t be audited as Hubbard claimed. But, when someone received some sort of indoctrination such as verbal instruction or reading a book so that they “knew” what was supposed to happen in an auditing session the auditing suddenly “worked”. At that point they knew they were supposed to find all sorts of ‘engrams’ and they could do so. In actual fact though, they couldn’t. They were just making shit up because of what they thought they were supposed to find. Occasionally someone would feel better for a short time but there were no actual lasting results. For some reason 70 percent of Man’s ills have not been cured even though the old con said they could be.
Ms B Haven,
You are totally spot on. ANY incident I ever took up in auditing was completely my own mock up. NEVER were any of them REAL. It was like manufacturing any incident just so the time spent might go somewhere. I am embarrassed to admit I “stayed the course” for nearly 40 years.
Glenn, I found that I was able to ‘run’ scientology processes for the most part but a lot of them only require one to do some silly shit as in the objectives and simple recall. However, dianetics was another matter for me. I finished my ‘grades’ and was all on fire to do some dianetic auditing. As soon as I got into it, nothing happened. It went no where. I could never find an engram to run, try as I might. I tried making stuff up out of frustration and of course that went nowhere either. I ended up getting sent to a higher org and they couldn’t do anything for me either. That was about the time RTC came into existence. I seriously considered having my folders sent there for review because they claimed to be the be all and end all of technical expertise and able to de-bug any ‘case’. Fortunately for me that was also the time I was FINALLY waking up from my Kool-Aid induced coma. I blew for the final time and never went back. Thank the gods. I was still somewhat under the spell though and considered going to Mayo’s group for help. Fortunately I didn’t do that either. What did it for me was getting some space away from the cult mixed with an ever increasing dose of time. I finally started feeling my own energy come back and found the incredible beauty and solace nature had to offer in the form of matter. Who would have thunk that good ol’ ‘MEST’ would have been the cure for my cult inflicted blues.
As for the embarrassment you feel, join the club and accept it. I don’t know of a single ex-cultie who doesn’t feel that. I’m glad you’re out and wish you all the best this amazing life has to offer.
Ms. B. Haven, Thank you for all that. Seems our stories are quite similar.
I did the grades before dianetics too. Never got any of the end phenomenon of them; Problems release was supposed to give one the ability to spot the source of problems and make them vanish. I went through that level 3 times consecutively and finally “attested” in hopes of cutting the blood (money) loss and getting on with it. Because even after 3 times through I never did get the promised result.
My XDN auditing was much like yours. Nothing ever “read” and fabricating incidents went nowhere too.
Many things kept me “on the path” over the years. Mostly the hope I could achieve the ability to “be there” and “hold a position” just as I found the first time I did TR0 40 years earlier. That event completely and utterly validated me and brought back the knowledge I was totally aware and able. Doing that drill the first time also gave me the ability to go exterior and stay there. And so I will say I did get some gains out of my time “in” but they were ALWAYS and ONLY because I applied the tech myself.
Conditions formulas were another source for real and personal gain and achievement. One of the best times I used them was when I drove into the mountains and found a secluded spot to camp for a few days. I began at “confusion” and wrote everything down just as it happened. Cognitions at each level had me roaring with laughter and crying with joy. The fact I was alone in a forest with no one around allowed to me express every high emotion I enjoyed with complete freedom and joy. I recall having many, many cognitions even during the 5 hour drive back home after finishing all the formulas.
Another time while walking down a street I sort of became aware that something threatening was about to happen. I “knew” it was “case” so decided to extrovert my attention into the world around me. I kept at it and soon began to see amazing details in buildings blocks away. Fine little cracks in stucco that I (nor anyone else) could ever see or perceive using the naked eye. It was amazing indeed!!!I The fear disappeared completely and I found myself holding a position in the physical universe for the first time. This event along with all others I had experienced COMPLETELY validated me, my ability and my knowingness.
I NEVER got any such results on any auditing level or course. EVER.
All of this was during my first 2 years “in”. As time moved on I was “sold” auditing and training that I believed would be good. I mean, the amazing good I’d already experienced on my own surely proved the tech worked and so I should go up the bridge and get more. Interestingly, I never had ANY of the ruins the levels were supposed to fix. Also I never had any true interest in the levels either. It always felt I was doing them simply so I could get to some level or action that would really appeal to ME and be something I truly wanted. But I was continually sold to move on and believed the advice must be correct as the purveyors were highly trained and experienced. My last few years were at Flag where all is supposed to be perfect.
In my time at Flag it became completely obvious the only thing that place had interest in was money. Real results? Increased ability? Personal Freedom? Real knowledge? Nah, money was all that mattered. And they were prepared to do ANYTHING in the quest for it. There is a “look in system” there where sessions are recorded. I gave up a withhold one morning and was accosted by a registrar an hour after session who used that confession in her attempt to get more money out of me. Thankfully for her sake I was able to suppress my amazement, disgust and anger so she could walk away and not turn in some knowledge report. Finally, the no results and the vampirish lust for money woke me up and I walked out.
Yes, the world is a wonderful place. I have found traveling all around it and getting to know people of different countries is a huge eye opener. I met my soulmate in one. We married and have never been happier. Never!!! And to think I would have never found all the joy and amazing experience I have engaged upon if I had remained in the cult makes me feel so, so validated and happy I did walk away. Today I have the money to do what I want. I am not broke, on welfare and homeless like some cult members have ended up.
Thanks for all you shared Ms. B. I have to tell you something right now. Being able to share all I just did with you makes me quite happy. If there truly is something like an F/N mine is swinging widely right now. 🙂
Glenn, you might be interested in this interview with Jason Beghe. It sounds like he has had a very similar experience as well…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
Exactly right, Ms B Haven!
Looking back overall, in fact LRH was the master evaluation violator of everyone’s case.
I remember when first reading the OT III material, while “impressed” with the idea of BTs, being annoyed by the fact that basically he was telling me exactly “what to think about my case”!
If there was any truth to it, this was something I should have run across by myself, and therefore not there by suggestion, on my solo auditing journeys.
I thought that this is what solo auditing was going to be. Discovery on my own! No more being fed stuff. But NOOO . . .
At every occasion he was basically saying, you poor DB SOB, I have to do the heavy lifting and tell you what to run.! Good thing I am there, and see how bad a time I had literally breaking my back doing it (no, no, don’t sympathize with me, but yes, do). A big covert invalidation to everybody under the guise of being the necessary pioneer.
Actually, the E-meter reads are a fact.
You can see them.
Most of the different types described.
Forgot the actual number, may be E-meter drill 21 “consider the events of today”. This was always a subject of wonder how well it worked whether I was the coach or I was the pc.
It was the closest to a suggestion-less correlation experiment of the physical manifestation of one’s personal thought process.
There is something there, by actual observation. I think E-meter reads should be investigated in a well thought out design of experiment to extricate the phenomena of real incidents vs. suggestions, vs. imagination capabilities of human beings. And get down to real science. I think it would be a fascinating field of research, but done right.
It tickles me that Scientologists accuse psychiatrists of “evaluating” during therapy sessions, yet here Hubbard is out-right telling you what to think about Xenu.
RIGHT! grisianfarce: OTII is nothing BUT evaluation that EVERY OT had the exact same experience at the same time in the same then-nonexistant places…. AND if you didn’t agree, they invalidated your perception of balderdash by sending you to various forms of punishment; word-clearing, “ethics”, sec checks, whatever.
AND, in my experience, modern psychotherapists go to great extremes to not invalidate their clients, nor evaluate more than gently suggesting possibilities. One, during couple councilling with my ex-, increasingly asked me “What do YOU want?”, which turned ut to be the exact right question I needed to answer and the Ex- had to understand.
Again, in my experience, scientology’s “best” day-to-day “therapy” is running “Ruds”. Paired with a properly-operated meter, it’s magic.
Agree 100%!
The closest thing to evaluating (per Hubbard’s definition, at least) that I’ve ever experienced with a therapist is the occasional gentle suggestion that perhaps I should dig deeper regarding certain subjects. But my experience has invariably been that modern psychotherapists go to great lengths to validate their clients, and that literally ANY ethical therapist will exercise extreme caution to avoid even the possibility of planting suggestions, let alone memories or experiences.
George said; But despite all of the money and all of the time and all of the reads, nothing changed. You completely summed up my EXACT 40+ years experience. NEVER did anything change.
I did get life changing wins from training and processing. I had such a big cognition on a clay table process in about 1993, it is still helping me live life today, 14 years after I quit. My core service fac found in 1973 is still a big personal truth that explains a lot of life for me.
I think LRH nailed a lot about life. Too bad that to stay in Scientology, one also has to accept all the lies and the stuff Ron got wrong, and had to put up with his paranoid repressive “third dynamic” … (not to even mention all the fucked up financial stuff) …
Placebo effect is a known phenomenon Joe. A certain small % of any test group experiences it. However, you could have been doing any other made up crap and would have experienced the same thing.
That’s why it would behoove you to get a real higher education in science.
As Groucho might say in response … “And this morning I could use a good placebo … or even a bad one.” But all kidding aside Wynski, I do have a PhD in bio chemistry … ok, that’s not really true … Truth is I got a D in Miss Appleby’s chemistry class, 11th grade, Lowell High School, San Francisco, 1967 … Had to take a “not for science people” physics class to get through junior college … Now I’m diving deeply into the science of enjoying life in the tropics …
Never let a perfect opportunity to invalidate someone’s benefit go to waste.
I don’t even know any cool-aide slurping COB ass-kissing Scinos who stoop this low. All you are doing is succeeding in validating LRH’s writings on SPs, PTSes and Ethics bait.
Keep going, don’t stop …
Formost, it seems to me Wynski is merely pointing out a viable alternative explanation regarding Joe’s experience with scientology counseling and training. The placebo effect is a perfectly valid explanation. It is also a fact that ‘other practices’ could also produce similar results. Joe has been around long enough to know what’s what and resilient enough to withstand any invalidation as well as a few slings and arrows. Especially if his gains came about as he claims.
“Viable alternative explanations” is the INTENT. If someone derived a benefit from Buddhism, he’ll be convinced it’s only some placebo effect. Actual benefits a person believes he received will be promptly invalidated in the same manner. Anti-Christian blogs run the same gambit — alternate explanations, placebo effects, suggesting the person is delusional, ad infinitum.
It all adds up to the same thing – if someone states XYZ practice gives him a benefit, it’ll be promptly invalidated by those who oppose said practice. You are an intelligent person, it doesn’t take a long mental leap of reason to spot the obvious.
George, have you considered what role telepathy would theoretically play in all of this? I think it’s an aspect Hubbard deliberately ignored, even though it’s a classic element of the type of metaphysical and occult practice and belief that his theories and techniques are based on and plagiarized from. The word telepathy was actually coined by a theosophist; and also referred to as thought transference in Theosophy; and Crowley accounted for it as well.
If Thetans are as powerful and unbound by MEST as Hubbard theorizes – effectively capable of telekinesis, or using the mind to influence and alter matter, like bending spoons – then shouldn’t they also have telepathy, including the power to project thoughts and suggestions into the minds of others, perhaps particularly weaker minds or souls? But the problem then is, the auditing process could easily be influenced by practiced auditor projecting (transferring) thoughts or images into the mind of the receptive subject.
The paradox is, if auditing, and Scientology, work as Hubbard theorized, then presumably there’d be significant risk of the auditor telepathically affecting or guiding the subject – which would be just one of a number of ways in which they are actually subtly lead, or “evaluate(d) for.” even though of course they’re not supposed to be. Things like the “wall of fire” might read not just because of expectations, or even some archetypal resonance, but simply because the idea is being planted in the mind of the subject. The question is, did Hubbard consider such possible implanting of ideas as acceptable, or even desirable – or was it a problem he tried to just ignore, and even divert followers from considering?
I think that with past lives, for instance, he knew he’d run across the classic practical pitfall of multiple people having supposed recollections of being the same historic figures – itself a symptom of the inherently faulty and suggestive techniques of regression – as well as having supposed past lives that, on examination, turn out to overlap in time. He dealt with that first by simply prohibiting people from comparing their “case” with those of others, and later on with some complex theory involving blaming “body thetans” for causing some of the seeming memories.
I think it’s possible that some degree of telepathy, or something like it based perhaps on very subtle body and speech cues that we have yet to full understand, may exist. Whether or not it does, Scientology still has the problem of internal consistency that it effectively postulates its existence, and yet that would completely throw off the theory of auditing being an exploration of the subject’s psyche and spirit, rather than a process in which they are lead into particular predetermined beliefs expected.
And regardless, there’s the environment of suggestion with mysterious volcanos on the cover of Dianetics, Hubbard’s references to space opera and other things in his lectures, his later fiction writings that hinted at his beliefs and upper-level teachings, and so on. Combined with the inherently directive nature of auditing – for instance, pushing the subject to go back to earlier memories, is based on the presumption that there are earlier memories to be recovered, and has been shown in experiments to result in people in suggestive states producing false memories – it’s a recipe for guiding people to come up with what is expected, rather than what (including not anything) is actually authentic for them
Telepathic influence may possibly be a factor in audited processes such as the grades, power, sec checking etc. but OT3 is solo audited, that is all by one’s lonesome.
The idea is that the auditor makes telepathic contact with the entity that reads and uses telepathy to conceptualize the incident that one leads the supposed entity through. They used to have the PC, I say PC even though he’s supposedly clear by this point but no one has ever achieved that, do OT7 which on the old OT levels was about intention, so that he could do OT3 more effectively. It was called OT3expanded, but they defanged the OT levels by making them all about negative gain in scurrying the bats in one’s belfry out and about, supposedly disburdening one to the point where he could reach actual OT states. Just that it didn’t work..
“they defanged the OT levels”
Dude, seek mental help FAST!