See the new article in People magazine which reports on John Travolta’s response to Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief.
I give him kudos for at least being willing to speak (more than Cruise. Alley or even Miscavige) and trying to defend his religion instead of merely sending out statements from his lawyer saying everyone is a liar.
But, and there are a few very large “buts”:
1. He says he has not seen the movie and has no plans to do so. That it would be a “crime” to watch it.
2. He stated he hasn’t had any negative experiences with Scientology.
3. He called the documentary a product of “people who were disgruntled with their experiences.”
Point number 1 is simply more evidence of scientology’s cultish mind-control. He does not plan to see the movie, though he already knows he is featured in it, most devastatingly in the Spanky Taylor story. The truth is, he is afraid to see the film because it would put him in a tough spot because he would then have to specifically deny things revealed in it. It is easier to simply say he hasn’t seen it. But to everyone in the world who HAS seen it (or even heard about it) this response is clearly a reflection of the control scientology has over him. It also confirms that scientology does NOT allow you to think for yourself. The pure idiocy of stating it would be a “crime” to watch the film is a wonderful microcosm of “scientology think.”
John is going to be asked a LOT more questions about this film, and it is going to wear thin to just say, “I haven’t seen it and I am not going to watch it.” He put himself in the position of being a scientology spokesman and he cannot avoid the responsibility and questions that come with it.
2. This is a lie. At one point, he had basically left the church. I am sure today he would explain that this was “before DM took over” or something. Anyone who watches the film KNOWS this is a lie, think back to the advice he gave Spanky about not allowing herself to be abused. There are plenty of other things John has experienced or knows about that are NOT “positive experiences” in scientology. To say that there are NO negative experiences in 30 years sounds as unreal as it is.
3. Isn’t that the point? He is not saying those “disgruntled” people are lying. They ARE disgruntled, and with good reason. Is there something wrong with people who have been abused, had their families broken up, money taken and head screwed with being disgruntled? How about mad as hell? And why SHOULDN’T they make this known?
He seems to have missed the big picture.
He is being called out in the film mostly because he is a celebrity megaphone for scientology, promoting it as all butterflies and unicorns. The film makes the point that he has a responsibility to know the other side before he love bombs people into getting involved with scientology. He, like an ostrich with his head in the sand, is saying “I am not going to look. I am going to keep promoting this regardless of what information is out there.” He is acting like a child who doesn’t want to acknowledge that he is being told to go to bed, so he sticks his fingers in his ears, closes his eyes and starts singing “Lalalalalala” as loud as he can.
Perhaps John has his eye on a part in Dumb and Dumber 3.
Hey Cindy, I’m not related to any of those guys but its funny because my Mom’s name is actually Sandra. Maybe I knew ’em in a different lifetime (hahahaha just playing). Thank you too CeCe. And Happy Birthday to you Mike Rinder. I wish you all the peace in the world.
Carmen Llywelyn You are funny! That is one heck of a post.
This is the best comment section ever. Its so nice to see a little civility here. Kinda rare these days to not constantly see flame wars in the comments. I liked reading everyone’s comment’s especially the ones that addressed the idea of treating people still in scn with how you’d want to be treated. I’m sure everyone here has seen some of the absurdity being said these days by scientologists so called opinion leaders. I’m very familiar with how these guys can be heartless and helpless at the same time. I remember when I left scn I got called out a lot for my arrogant and unsympathetic behavior. Getting ridiculed stung but I eventually got forced into modifying the behavior. It sucked. But when I stopped judging others I actually started listening and trying to understand. Only then was it even possible to learn anything. I was learning about myself. I was in scn for almost 10 years and had no idea who I really was. In scn we aren’t allowed to internalize anything. No one was allowed to think about anything too much. We couldn’t look within ourselves for answers. Introverting is bad. Instead we were made to do the opposite. To only think about things in a session. Get outside ourselves. Extrovert. When I see these scientologists online, acting like unkind intellects with very little awareness of just how small their world is, I think knocking them into the sobering reality that the Sun doesn’t revolve them is healthy. That superficiality isn’t sexy. Ignorance isn’t cool. Abuse isn’t tolerated. Being prejudicial isn’t a humanitarian trait. Bigotry isn’t exposing the truth. Sometimes rejecting their behavior or making fun of them is the only thing I think they can actually feel. It sucks but to me being respectful to them never worked. They never reciprocated it back to me. They don’t think they have to.Being nice to them actually made them treat me worse. The only thing that ever worked was shocking the reality into them that they lack the knowledge to be so judgmental in the first place. Knocking them down to size might remind them they’re all still human. Instead of some super powerful live forever something else.
Loved your post Carmen! And by the way, are you related to Gil Llywelyn or his mom, Sandra?
Mike I love reading your blog so much,I truly laugh out loud,I can hear your Aussie accent as I read it,lalalala…. Your the bestest!!!!!
And sarcastic head bob,lol
He looks so dead in the eyes. There is no life or happiness there.
Waaaahhhhh heart pain, need to have extra rolls of TP around the house in case there is an outburst of tears. OK John. I get it never hurt YOU. It never hurt ME untill my kids were conned away. It’s been a few years now and the 40years of memory is comming back. There were earlier hurts but I had santioned them off into their own little catagory like maybe you did with Spanky. I’m counting on you John T to set the record straight here.
Lalalala, Don’t forget the brain-washed Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard haters….what will they do with themselves if Scientology is gone? 🙂
The thing that stands out to me about JT’s statement is the unwillingness to look, the carte Blanche acceptance that anything the church does or says is good, true and acceptable. The guys I observed that did the top of the bridge exhibited the same thing. I remember when the basics were released and later, after the hype died down, why does no one at least question this a little bit. Some commas were missing and we now have to re – buy everything. LRH didn’t pick up on it ? didn’t he pretty much figure everything out? Shouldn’t the guys at the top of the bridge get sharper and more discerning, see out points easier. They do seem happier and more glowing though… but at what cost.
Don_M, the problem is that for them its just not looking at one thing. Looking at one thing means having to look at other things. Its not so much confronting what the cult is doing and has done, its confronting how or why you didn’t see it, or, possibly, how at one point you saw it but pretended you didn’t, or how time after time you saw it and you know you saw it but justified and supported and defended it. Its the tangled web of complexity that you wove out of your continual unwillingness to confront. Its spotting the first time you violated your own knowingness and integrity by saying, “I didn’t see that”, or, “Well, that’s OK because…”, and on and on with the excuses, reasons and justifications which created even more complexity that couldn’t be confronted, and so on. The problem is that looking at even one cult abuse opens their eyes to the tangled web, and its not “over there” to be looked at, its tangled all around YOU.
Ed… FYI: I live in Chicago. I get a blocked message when trying to click on the link. Thanks, though!
Mike, the full HBO documentary is available NOW :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_k5VL14pM
Kudos to You!
Ed, HBO blocked it in the USA
Mike Rinder: You know I’m a big fan of yours, so this is a sincere question: based on your experience from when you were in how much of Travolta’s position is knowingly going along to cover-up Miscavige’s crimes calculated on fear (fear of being disconnected from his family if he speaks out, fear of the church revealing his secrets) and how much is based on him actually being a True Believer (brainwashed)? Is it some of both? I assume there was a time in your life when you really believed some of the things you said that you now look back on and wince about – is it possible that some day in the future Travolta will to? Just curious. I don’t know John Travolta at all, but for some reason I kind of hope he’s just brainwashed and not deliberately, calculatedly aiding and abetting criminal behavior. Just as a movie fan, a brainwashed Travolta I can accept, a criminal Travolta is just too sad! Thanks.
Having said that, one more question: Isn’t there some LRH tech that can do something for his hair?
I think it’s some of both. He is clearly a believer. But he doesnt want to say anything wrong because of the consequences for his family. That’s my opinion.
How many here stopped making excuses and started looking? What happened to all that jazz about “you’re here on the same terms as the rest of us”?
John Travolta to this day is still shilling for Narconon despite lawsuits and wrecked lives piling up faster and higher than an L.A. rush hour freeway. I stopped making excuses for these celebrities. Judging by the reactions across the states and overseas yesterday, it appears that society has stopped making excuses for them too.
There comes a definitive moment when the line is drawn in the sand and you must choose: Scientology or Humanity. John made his choice when he left Spanky standing in his rear view mirror. He made it again yesterday, this time perhaps leaving his own true self behind. I wouldn’t wish that kind of hard, cold existence on any human being. It’s like he bolted himself in to that prison of belief and threw away the key.
HiTheHoleDoesNotExist, Thank you for this post.I feel the same way about celebrities in cos.If they have the money honey,there will be no looking @ the Truth.Plus what celebrity past or present doesn’t love extra attention & being told they are the “special” ones who only speak the “truth” according to them.I understand that they have souls,& may be good or have good intentions.However in the name of all of us who have been put through the wringer by the SO etc.,I do not see the viewpoint that all is beautiful on their side of things.At some point a being stands up & screams @ the blatant injustice that exists.Take Care Ann B Watson.
This is standard John Travolta, who has always spoken like this about the CoS since the 1970’s. He and his wife Kelly Preston are what I think of as “lifers.”
John and Kelly are typically trotted out to cheerlead for the CoS. They’ve been doing it for years and the statements given by John to People are standard MO. Nothing new, no surprises here.
You would think though, that someone who promotes himself as a person of goodwill through their “religion” would take an interest in its alleged abuses. John clearly has a lot of personal growth to do to realize his true self. The CoS is not doing him any favors in that department.
Travolta – an outstanding example of a being at cause over life! Absolutely outstanding!
He’s so OT he sensed this film and simply as-ised it before it was aired. Geezers… you mean you common folk actually have to see and hear something before you know all about it? Get some abilities will ya!
Like all the $cientologists in corporate holding they all knew all about it long before it aired, had the solution, applied it and are now settling into their role as masters of the universe nice as you please with barely a feather out of place.
You see $cientology as it should be practiced as miscavige discovered it a matter of compliance. The euphoria of OT is all singular in nature. If whatever you sense, measure or experience doesn’t align with miscavige’s well being it’s not scientology. That’s why the truth is so awkward for observers of films, radio, websites and all other forms of communication, you simply haven’t realised the what scientology actually is.
Can’t you see that?
Mike – I think you’re being incredibly generous in giving Travolta any kudos, considering his rather pitiful answer.
It comes to something when someone is given kudos for even attempting to answer a question, no matter how ridiculous their answer. It reminds me of kindergarten to be honest.
Hey Mike – completely off topic – have we missed your blog’s second birthday on 20 March? A new post every single day for two years flat out deserves “maximus congratulationus”! Well done for all your efforts to right (and write) the wrongs.
Mike… I support you 100000%… I think what you are doing is eye opening and will hopefully bring this cult down. It’s sad how they take extreme measures to bring people down, especially those who want to voice their opinions or experience with the religion. I’ve never seen the Pope stalk an ex-catholic. This is absurd.
Travolta displays the proper level of powers of observation and logic required to swallow El Con’s lies. ANY higher and the person breaks free.
Thank you John for your recent post. In Truth, Ann B Watson.
John Travolta’s viewpoint on this is simply the standard one of any Scientologist. One does not and can not admit to even the possibility of abuses within the CoS or to the possible truth of any media criticism. The moment one DOES admit to the above is the moment when one is no longer really a member anymore of “the Scientology universe.” Travolta knows this and so does every member of the “church” of Scientology.
I HAVE to say!!!!!!….every single one of the comments on this blog have been cogent, thoughtful, “clear” (not CoS clear…ha!), centered, on point, compassionate yet justice seeking, intelligent……GOSH, HOW OFTEN DOES THAT HAPPEN in an online forum?? Kudos to you all!
His remarks are on a par with what you would expect from someone who brought you Adele Dazeem and glommed Scarjo. Another embarrassing performance.
It will be interesting to read the comments made by TC, Jenna, Kristie, etc. I’m guessing they will all use this line or something similar. I’m sure each has been briefed on how to respond.
Of course they have, Patty! All of them were probably given a script to read! “Think for yourself.” HA! That’s the last thing you can do in this vile cult.
Thank-you, Mike Rinder, for your important work. I’ve been following you, off and on, since I saw Scientology & Me, and then discovered you had “blown.” I am not, nor have I ever been, a Scientologist (though my Dad filled out a questionaire, once, in the ’90s, and we continued to receive curious mail for years). But, I am truly fascinated by the founder’s self-aggrandizing, protectionist, and shady mythogy, the shifty business practices (because they are indeed a business) and the litigious nature of the church, as well as the brutal treatment and abuses — indeed, human rights violations — the church continues to get away with. All things you have been making people like me aware of for years.
I read many of the comments here, and I was struck by something I thought I might add to temper the conversation about John Travolta. But first: the general impression I get is a) that, as an influential public persona, and someone who at one time cared for Spanky Taylor, JT has the responsibility to get his head out of the sand, as you say, and stop being complicit in the abuses against innocent people, b) that he is cowing to the holder of his secrets, and c) that he seems like he is, otherwise, a decent enough guy.
And I would agree — at least with a & b, since I obviously don’t know him at all. (Though I haven’t heard of him using free church labour for personal gain like another church celebrity. Please fill me in if that is not the case!)
But, I suppose I also see him as a victim, too. Though he’s rich and powerful, he’s invested much of himself into the church: his denial of his sexuality (allegedly), the reality that his son’s death may have been prevented if not for his religion, and the public scorn he has endured as a famous Scientologist. If, or when, he sees the light of day, he’s going to have to confront the tragedy to which his bridge to freedom lead. I think, when he speaks of all that Scientology has done for him, he’s just burying all that shit deeper and deeper. Coping without Scientology means a harsh and devastating realization. He can’t see the truth because it’s painful, it’s difficult, it’s devastating — like so many of you know so well. I hope he gets his head out of the sand one day soon, too. I guess I just think the best way to accomplish that sort of paradigm shift is for people to go ahead and disagree with him, and point out the responsibility of his influence, but also to be sympathetic and supportive. When the ex-Scientologist community is the enemy, and Scientology is the friend (perhaps the only friend), isn’t there more reason to push into the sand a little further?
Despite his privilege, I can’t help but feel sorry for him too. Sure he’s perpetuating it, and therefore complicit in the abuse: a victimizer. And though he will never have to be in the Hole or on RPF or be assaulted by David Miscavidge, isn’t he ultimately a victim too? Hasn’t DM created a cycle of abuse where those at the top are both abused and abusive?
Ironically, too, it may be harder to leave Scientology when it doesn’t subject you to these horrible, horrible things that eventually drive so many to run. Paul Haggis and Jason Beghe’s stories are markedly different from the stories of those former Scientologists without fame. Though it was easier for them to leave, it was also easier for them to stay, and that’s what makes their stories particularly commendable, to me. JT doesn’t strike me as having the same stock of integrity, strength, or conviction.
I’m not disagreeing with much of the comments offered here — just taking a step back as an outsider. And I, too, believe JT deserves criticism for his role, and I hope he escapes the dogma and uses his influence for good, as you have, Mr. Rinder, to help and warn others.
Maybe he needs help too.
Thanks. Great comment. I agree with you.
If JT cannot face up to this, he has no hope of going full OT.
An OT could transform the radioactive fallout from Fukushima into non-toxic substances, that is what is important at the end of the day, that all life organisms on earth do not go extinct, a religion that started in 1982 is not important and when it is gone no one will miss it except for a few brainwashed celebrities .
Hi Mike,
I think that the viewpoint that “the ends justify the means” is a characteristic of anyone and everyone who has being a “VERY Important Person” (V.I.P.) as a very important goal in their life.
I have observed that people who have this characteristic are very self-absorbed, usually have a big “self-importance button”, and tend to see others as “assistants” or “aides”, or “underlings” rather than the kindred free and sovereign beings that they are by nature.
Interesting. JT doesn’t say he feels it would be unethical or immoral for him to watch it, he says it would be a CRIME. This implies that he knows he would get in trouble and would be punished for it. It’s sort of like he doesn’t hear what’s he saying. He claims to know what’s in it without seeing it, and that it contains lies, even though it was made be someone who is not just a “bitter defrocked apostate”, but an Academy Award-winning producer/director known for making documentaries that expose abuses. Featured in the film is Paul Haggis, who is also an Academy award winning screenwriter and producer, who used to be friend of Travolta. JT MUST know that Haggis left Scientology. Isn’t JT the least bit curious? Travolta’s words and actions are living proof of someone living in the prison of the Scientology belief system. Even if JT were telling the truth about having no negative experiences in his 40-year Scientology history, wouldn’t he be the least bit curious how others have fared who are less rich and powerful? Contrary facts or is he just repeating some PR line that’s he been told to say by RTC. JT must know that “celebs” and “upstate” are treated differently in Scientology than “downstats” and “degraded beings”. Why would he think everyone else has had nothing but “beautiful experiences”? Obviously, he knows about SP declares, disconnection, fair game, RPFs, IAS fraud, etc.
More like “High Crime”.
Sorry if someone has noted this, but it should be echoed loud and clear because this is how the church does some of its business. Travolta may have made his statements because a “gun” was to his head–his folder and video copies of his auditing sessions in Scientology!
Hi.
To condemn John Travolta for not being able and willing to see what we see and do what we want him to do and not do is, to me, being quite blind and arrogant.
To preach to him, in a condescending manner, the viewpoints he should assume and the actions he must do is being quite spiritually immature in my view.
One of the biggest lessons I learned from my experience in Scientology was that compassion and understanding, which were quite absent in the universe of Ron and Scientology, should always be quite present in my connecting with another human being whom I consider to be troubled or in disharmony with the spiritual goodness and sense of right and wrong that resides in each of us.
When missing from my world, most of what I originate is arrogance, egoism, preaching, negative judgments and filters, and generalizations and ridicule that impede the soul to soul connection that can be achieved in the presence of compassion and understanding.
Before we begin condemning or preaching let’s first accept the viewpoints he wants/needs to have without having to react to them.
Let’s give him the space to have them so that the defensiveness and aggressiveness, and the much stronger attachment and need to be right that is usually produced, when one’s viewpoints and/or actions, are made wrong, does not dim the calls of his beautiful soul to be and stay free. to be doing what is right and good.
He, will eventually, I am quite sure, if treated as we would have like to have been treated, in similar circumstances, see what his heart wants him to see and do, not what we want him to see and do, which is as it should be.
Regards,
Luis
Do you plan to do anything about the people that are being abused in the meanwhile? Do you accept Miscavige’s viewpoint that the ends justify the means?
In Travolta’s case, the end did justify the means. Didn’t Miscavige have his folders culled when Travolta mentioned he did not like Sea Org executives but he still cared about Scientology? That muzzled John up.
John marched in Portland and took on Germany. Who got the Freedom of Medal Award? Tom Cruise.
Right now Tom Cruise and every other celebrity on the planet are silent and who steps forward and lays his ass on the line? John Travolta.
What pisses me off is the fact that David Miscavige has pimped this guy North South East and West, as if he is entitled to this guy’s allegiance.
He does not owe any of us anything. Miscavige is probably gloating right now about the way he has used and bad mouthed this guy, and completely ignored his sacrifices to the Church. Right, the end justifies the means.
I think you hit it on the head on the Kelly show Mike, when you said John’s allegiance is about his family.
I have also noticed not one single person has come forward to declare allegiance to David Miscavige, except by orders of his staff.
I think John is running damage control the best he can, as we all do. I do not think he is willing to sacrifice everything for the “cause”. And wouldn’t that be cultish anyway?
Mike’s take on J.T., and I think he is right: At 3:14 in the interview.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/04/02/church-scientology-responds-mike-rinder-interview-kelly-file
Geeze Christ the “Leader of the Church” can not come out with a statement about the film but John Travolta can? Mike Rinder, Tom Devoght, Marty Rathbun can come out with statements and go on National Television, but the leader of the Church can not? Davis Miscavige’s total absence from this landscape screams volumes.
David Miscavige has lost the floor.
I’m watching Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun, Tom Devoght on television. Karen on her documentaries. They all have GREAT presence. All of these people could have been GREAT spokes people for Scientology. Everybody LOVES them. They could have been co anchors on MSNBC!
What did David do with them? Beat them, berated them, and imprisoned them.
His inability to utilize PERFECTLY wonderful personnel and well meaning individuals is the most flaming outpoint!
IDIOT! He had EVERYTHING. THIS is what is going to hit home to people David. You can not cover this up. This is where people can see that you have been blatantly wrong. You can not explain this away. That,would be an unattainable goal.
Hi Mike.
I strongly believe that one of the best ways to prevent a change of viewpoint or conduct in someone is by ridiculing them or insulting them, or preaching to them what they must do or not do, and especially by assigning them a fixed negative label or identity.
The principle that gives me this current viewpoint is that I am aware that a person needs to feel safe and be in a safe space, free of hostility, in order to accomplish an objective examination of what is going on in his world which eventually leads to recognizing the flaws in it.
Under attack a person will protect and become more attached to his world, more intensely identified with it and more protective of it. The ability to separate from any part of it so as to be able to see it, and the willingness to examine, as well as objectivity, are prevented. He will further distance himself from the people and the viewpoints that are attacking and will be attacking them.
So what I am trying to communicate is that the best way to “handle” John Travolta is by not having to have him handle his viewpoints and his sins and to condemn him because he can’t.
Let us first wish him the best conditions we can think of for him and his life with the understanding that, most of us, were in a similar denial, don’t dare to look, or to connect, or to confront the evils and the harms of Scientology and were witnesses to injustices we dared not do anything about. The Scientology universe had been empowered with taking full control of our thoughts and our actions.
I am very aware that once, one is able to envision clearly, and really care about the well being of another human being, and ceases to enforce and accomplish the needs one may have for that person to change, the ability to connect and to positively influence that human being is tremendously strengthened.
Lastly, I see the end justifies the means as a tremendous weakness caused by having empowered a need with the ability to be absorbing and controlling one’s individuality and one’s thoughts and actions.
It severely dims the joy of aliveness, the presence of the heart, of love, of peace of mind as it produces paranoia, taking things very personal, cruelty, a tremendously disharmonious existence and horrible continuing and impending Karma,
In attempting to understand David Miscavige I see a person existing through most of his life with tremendous and quite numerous unrecognized insecurities and a devastatingly low self esteem.
All that he is and has been doing is following blindly the dictates of his insecurities which demand he do all the evil “means” things he has done in order to feel secure and powerful and valuable. HIs immense needing to feel secure is his ruining end.
My biggest wish for him, at this moment, is for him to start recognizing those insecurities and begins disobeying their dictates, something Ron Hubbard also, in my view, heavily suffered from and failed to recognize and disobey so that he ended up in a horrible state.
Regards,
Luis
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
I understand your view, Luis, however, I don’t think the majority of the comments here are condemning JT, but are more expressions of disappointment.
Let’s clear away the complexities and figure-figure on this:
Let’s say you see a parent savagely beat their child in public. Do you ignore it and walk away? Or do you take a stand and minimally speak out against it? Or take action to stop it?
JT did something worse than simply ignoring it. He justified it. He effectively said how the parent was a “beautiful” person and how wonderful its been knowing them. And the parent never beat or hamed HIM, so how could he condemn them? And because of this he just couldn’t – wouldn’t – watch the parent beat the child or even admit the parent harmed the child despite clear evidence.
How would you feel about JT doing that? Would you be proud of him? Understanding of him? Or maybe a bit disappointed?
Or maybe you could say to him (with compassion and understanding) – “John, you should have said or done something to stop the abuse.”
And lose the rest of his family? Is that what’s being preached here. Mike, you already when through it. Was it that easy? That simple? The Man said, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” Pretty good viewpoint, methinks.
I don’t know you, Luis, but I agree with both of these posts you’ve done. I’ve had similar to say above. In truth, my heart goes out to John. He’s been given Sophie’s Choice. From what I can see, it’s more about family than anything in his pc folders.
I am seeing that my comments are forming misunderstandings of what I am writing.
1, Statpush states: “How would you feel about JT doing that? Would you be proud of him? Understanding of him? Or maybe a bit disappointed?”
Understanding does not mean allowing a destructive conduct to exist by forming a justification that makes that person right for his conduct or makes that conduct right.
Understanding means doing one’s best to find out what is going on in the world of that person, without bias or hostility, so one now has the knowledge necessary to know how to deal with that person.
Once, one understands what is going on in someone’s world, one now has the power to help influence a change in that person’s conduct.
When no understanding is present one gets disharmonious and distancing actions in the form of accusations, labelings, etc.
Actions which lessen the ability to connect with that person and help him be a better human being by making him understand himself better and, especially feel that he has found a safe person to trust.
2. Tony says: “When hearing your philosophy of how to handle people the words Theetie Wheetie come to mind. You are of course entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but standing around “granting beingness” to someone who is doing the wrong thing is very weak.”
3. Mike says: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Please see the above comments.
Moreover, the best way to influence a change in someone who is doing harm, is not by making him wrong or guilty or shamed or by assigning him a disempowering identity, as that weakens a person and lessens his ability to recognize and own up to the wrongness,
It is done, most effectively by empowering with caring, with warmth, whether from a distance or up close, the beautiful and good soul he basically is, his goodness, his past good deeds, and his desire to do good, his ability to form and let go of viewpoints, to be independent, to recognize that his integrity always comes first, to choose what is right and wrong to do, and so he can be urged to confront all viewpoints available and is willing to recognize what is happening in his world, especially the insecurities that are guiding his life and dictating his actions. These actions, while one is being an example of being in harmony with them is what influences individuals to change.
Let’s separate the soul from the flawed contents of someone’s universe, Let’s stop weakening it by making it wrong, Lets’ empower it so the flawed contents can be seen, acknowledged, and removed.
Let’s try this on a consistent basis and see what happens.
Regards,
Luis
Hi Luis,
Sometimes I still find some Scientology words to be quite descriptive. When hearing your philosophy of how to handle people the words Theetie Wheetie come to mind. You are of course entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but standing around “granting beingness” to someone who is doing the wrong thing is very weak. When Apartheid was going on, that situation didn’t change because people were trying to be nice and give the perpetrators “space”. They were FORCED into stopping that behavior.
Some people think that the ideal way to be is softspoken and blasé. I don’t subscribe to that. I say be however you want to be and the results you get and the happiness you find will let you know if you did right or wrong. I salute Mike and others for having the courage to speak out. Travolta should be ashamed of himself. As Mat Pesch commented on above, a person has to be beat up enough by the cult before they have the guts to stop taking it. (I would say in most cases) Travolta will wake up when he is in enough pain either from internal cult idiocy or pressure is brought to bear upon him from the external world to force him to look.
Cognitive Dissonance.
Also…How does he know what’s in the film is a bunch of disgruntled people if he’s never seen the documentary!?!
Dave told him.
Ahhh… JOHN! John… you there John?
It’s a two terminal universe mate and you’re in it, like it or not. And just like a lot of people backed good ‘ol Uncle Sam at the beginning of the Vietnam War – their ideas changed as the idiocy of that action became apparent along with the body bags.
The Church of Scientology has disgruntled parishioners along with a growing number of body bags unfortunately because of the criminal activities perpetrated and condoned by Captain david miscavige. And, that’s proven beyond doubt now buddy boy and your own church Policy tells you that too, especially the Data Series. Hiding behind the 1st Amendment is a monster you are now publically condoning. The abuses have been significant and were of such criminality it has caught the attention of award winning authors and documentary makers, let alone the world media which is now waking up more and more on this “rapidly expanding religion”. These aren’t your average Joes or is happening in some other country, this is your country and your life John, whether you take responsibility for it or not. Your comm lag is very unbecoming for someone at cause over life. Cruise is complicit up to his aircraft wings and fancy RVs but you John… worried about the skeletons in your closet maybe?
Don’t worry, your money and lawyer’s advice will smooth you over any rough patches in your ivory tower but don’t ever call yourself a caring, loving or compassionate human being or someone that is aware of the environment around them ever again. You neck deep in complicity and per the technology you covert, ‘the condition you don’t assign you will become’. You need to seriously take yourself to Qual and look at The Code of a Scientologist along with the Auditor’s Code and not to even mention KSW1. Problem is most of the “disgruntles” you talk about are far better acquainted with the application of the technology of Scientology than you are. You’ve reversed the ethics of your own religion. Another Scientology fact is that PTSness is a technical thing, ‘in the presence of suppression one makes mistakes’. There is nothing you can say publically or privately for that matter which won’t be a mistake and rebound on you unless it’s the truth. You know of that phenomena John – truth? You need to take another look at Catch22 in a new unit of time.
You’re headed for the spiritual crap heap but wasn’t it Hubbard who said, “if you’re silly enough to become famous…”
It’s tick toc for you too boy-o! The stars await, what condition are you going to be in? You make such damn good movies too.
Yawn, that was a devastating comment. I actually shivered and thanked God I’m not John Travolta.
Recently watched the film and I almost feel sorry for him. He’s clearly struck there, being blackmailed into staying as he’s a high profile figure, but I say “almost” as I’m sure the material benefits are keeping him warm and cosy.
The film itself was brilliant, well filmed and well presented.
Haven’t read all comments (been a long day) but I suspect Travolta has less control of his freedom than any of us know, for reasons none of us know. The same was true of all of us at one time. Let’s not give up hope for him (or for Cruise, and all the others with lesser known names). This is a hard time for them. It’d be nice if they’d come out swinging against Miscavige, but that ideal was …. well, unreal. So okay, he needs more time. Fair enough.
I think that TC’s silence and selling off property says a lot. And Krusty’s quiet time out on Twitter. Maybe they are retreating to think things over and do some research. That’s what I did. John? He’s a nice guy just trying to stay nice. I don’t think he’s seen anything yet. I think that he’s pretty much run by Kelly. I could be wrong…but, it just seems that way.
Thank you, Robin, for that non judgemental comment. Everyone here seems to ignore what lost Jett meant and still means to John. And the thought of losing MORE of his family to disconnection? Who would really wish THAT on him, having read the stories of others on these blogs?
Shortly after Jett was born, in I think ’93 or ’94, JT was interviewed on TV, I forget whose show it was, and was asked how he felt, etc., and he said, “I am in love – with my son”. You had to have been there observing his face when he said this corny thing. His expression was bemused and tender. He just sat there, seemingly unconcerned about what he was saying and how it was coming across, just being there, answering questions in a relaxed way, radiating a kind of serenity. It was beautiful. Forgive my use of a hackneyed phrase from the ’70s; but its the one that fits: he was so real.
What John meant to say was;
It would in fact be a “high crime” if he watched it. And in so doing, would open himself to blackmail and black PR by his church since they have all his PC folders. Leverage. It’s all about leverage. Terl lives!
I am.willing to bet JT went off script a little bit. I bet the statement ‘Karin Pouw’ originally prepared for JT included something along the lines of: “The church is expanding exponentially under the guidance of Mr. David Miscavige and that proves none of ‘Going Clear’ is true. The church is 100x bigger than it has ever been!”
I’m thinking this is the last generation of followers, relatively speaking. DM, TC, JT….all over 50. By the way….when CoS does implode, DM will reach for his hidden millions $ and live off them. ALL other proceeds that are on the CoS books (real estate etc.) will have to been given over to not-for-profit entities. That’s what tax exempt entities do, by law, when they fold. Who would the CoS possibly endow with, say, all their empty buildings? (Been thinkin’ about this the last couple of days)
Dave will exit with 95% of the wealth, after he hollows out the cult with his unaudited shell game.
SNL video is at 1,114,448 views!
Bitchin’! Maybe it will make it to Target 2!
I’ve always loved John Travolta. He was my childhood crush from way back and I’ve always thought he was a loving, caring, decent person. I tended to excuse him from being in Scientology. However, I have an autistic son, just like he did. What church is “beautiful” in forbidding him to get the necessary help for his son, or even acknowledge his child had autism in public. If my “church” told me I couldn’t help my son, that church would have been in the dust a long time ago and let them reveal all my deep, dark secrets. My son is more important than that. If he won’t watch the whole documentary, he at least needs to watch the portions where his friend Spanky appears. Let him hear how his friend had to eat table scraps while pregnant and how her child had fruit flies on her and let’s see how beautiful he thinks that is.
I’ve been looking all over the internet for info about JT’s disaffection in the early 80s. I know I’ve read it; more than once. Does anyone have a link?
My comment on the Facebook post of this article: John should move to Oudtshoorn, the “ostrich capital of the world”, it’s a town in the Western Cape province of South Africa. I am sure he and TC can find a pair of side-by-side double wide trailers to move into.. Hell, I’ll even donate towards turning them into “Ideal Trailers” for them. And it’s in the Karoo which is a semi-arid dessert-like area just like Hemut – so they should be right at home.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing ~
Edmund Burke
And women, too. Thanks for your perseverance and continued good work, Karen.
Sadly, John has shamed himself with this vapid, self-centered happytalk in the face of real and serious matters. It’s clear Miscavige convened a war summit and issued the plans. And apparently Travolta and Cruise both are going to follow DM/LRH to the death (of their careers). They’re both becoming cartoon figures in the industry (which has DEFINITELY watched Going Clear – and I doubt they consider “I choose not to look” a compelling response). I feel like John is actually breaking down in some way (e.g. Oscar antics). How much lying on how many levels can a person bear?
How much bankability will they have after this? TC produces his own films…so he will keep hiring himself. What about JT? Will producers dare to hire someone who could be caught in a s#%tstorm by next year that could spiral their bankability out of control? Who knows? Interesting to watch.
Again…I hope that the big new studio that DM is building on Sunset Blvd turns out to be a ghost town. I don’t think anyone sane, stable and creative would cross that threshold. Too many other places in Hollywood and Burbank to fall back on.
I too had some hope for Travolta, but since he spoke out, he has made his bed. He’s thoroughly fixed. It would take a major upset with the cherch to open him up, and they’ll make sure that doesn’t happen.
Actually, it just occurred to me that he left the door open to someday announce: “You know, I once said that I’d never see that documentary, but so and so and so and I changed my mind and I DID see it, and, man, am I out of here!”
ONLY if Kelly is going with him.
Right, because otherwise she’d take this new baby Benjamin away also, along with his daughter Ella.
You can be sure they got to him and other celebs, the beached whales, etc. with some okie dokie tow the line handling. That he still conforms in this manner is unsettling.
Clearly JT is very selective as to who is entitled to receive help and who is not. One would think his old friend would qualify. However, when you pit friendship up against the church, the church always wins. Always.
This is why a Scientologist cannot be a true friend, and why they cannot be trusted.
They may be a decent individual, hard working, family man, honest, social personality. And they may appear to be your friend. But, if the church gets involved, realize the Scientologist’s allegiance will always side with the church. To this degree they cannot be counted on to do the right thing, but can be counted on to do the “church thing”.
JT is doing the “church thing” – not the right thing.
HCOB 11 APRIL 1982
SEC CHECKING IMPLANTS
IMPOSED SILENCE: The simplest and most common implant—and its lightest but not least-deadly form—is the command to withhold. Implants could be said to be “methods of preventing knowledge or communication” and this can extend to the point of the person himself denying himself the data. The commonest “imposed silence” is probably the threatened child—an “if you tell, you will be punished.” Or simply ordering him not to tell. This tends to occlude his own memory and can be classified as an implant.
The first observation is correct – he had the guts to stand out and talk.
Now, on the other end we should not fall into what exactly the church is doing, such as “if he does not see the truth, he is…”; or, “if he doesn’t think what we know is true, then he is…”, which is basically judgmental. I believe he has the right to express his own opinion, we may not agree, but at least he is talking.
Time will come when he would have to decide what to do about all this “film, scientology comments”.
I have mixed feelings on this.
IMHO, our society has gone Celebrity crazy to the point where actors have sway over people’s opinions when most of them don’t have the IQ or EQ (emotional intelligence) to truly weigh in on philosophical issues or topics of controversy. John Travolta, although from all appearances a nice man, is not an intellectual giant, a paragon of virtue, or an intrepid individual. The poor man can’t even face his own sexuality
.
Phillip Zimbardo, a professor emeritus of psychology at Stanford University, has authored several studies and books on social psychology and man’s tendency to follow along with the group. There is no mystery there and most human will follow the group or an authority figure. What he found more interesting and worthy of study is the Hero, the guy who goes against the mob when something is wrong. He is the person who speaks up when he sees an injustice, many times at great personal risk. He is the person who refuses to keep pushing the buzzer in the Milgram experiments.
John Travolta is no hero, he may play one in the movies or on TV, but in life he shows no real strength of character. I would say the same about Tom Cruise. As most exes will say, it takes some courage to look deep and see you were really wrong about something you gave so much of your life.
Expecting someone like JT or TC or KA to behave with the Integrity of a Mike Rinder or a Spanky Taylor, to name two, is a losing proposition and you are going to be disappointed every time. John and Tom’s behavior is not remarkable or unpredictable. They are just towing the line with the rest of the faithful, while feverishly chanting, “I think for myself, I think for myself, I think for myself!” Almost like the little train that thought he could.
Nice post Raindog. There really is no reason to expect the celebs to behave any differently than just another man on the street although it would be great if they did.
My cousin was a next door neighbor to Krusty when she lived in Southern Oregon. I used to get emails whining about how she (my cousin) thought that $cientologists were supposed to be a cut above the average, really friendly, outgoing and helpful …………. and all that other Daveshit. Apparently Krusty was a day late and dollar short on delivering some of those amenities. After some threatened lawsuit issues my cousin moved!
As an aside, my cousin happens to be one of the most difficult personalities I have ever come up against so when she was blown away by Krusty, well, you get the picture.
Or he wants out and DM has such blackmail material on him, John will do or say whatever DM wants.
The real trap is NOT Miscavige, it’s Kelly. If John goes, he loses the rest of his family to disconnection. And after losing Jett, that would be like a death sentence to John, IMHO. As I noted above, I’ll cut him all the slack he wants. Scio is going down no matter what he does, so damned if I’ll judge him.
I agree, thegman. I sense that she’s more than capable of cutting him off from his kids. I think she’s a phony and that under that mask of fake-innocent, syrupy sweetness and light she’s cold as ice.
“he sticks his fingers in his ears, closes his eyes and starts singing “Lalalalalala” as loud as he can.”
You ain’t a scientologist if you ain’t that.
so in his world watching a movie has become a crime. not only is that scary but does he not note the irony?
hey John, how about we decide not to watch some movies ourselves?
seriously, this guy has a lot more to face up to than most.
to face up he would have to reconcile Jett, if you know what i mean. that is a seriously hard thing to……lets say……..review.
before that happened i would have said there was a shot, but after that, i think if might to too hard for him to think he could have been responsible.
this guy has really buried himself deep, i would not be shocked if he ran an EOC program one day.
he’s become sad and pitiful.
Mike, I think your opinion may be a bit misleading this time. There is no way that Travolta hasn’t seen Going Clear. Simply impossible!
This is a smart move to tell others in the cult to not watch the documentary. And the bonus is that he has nothing to justify to wogs…. at least in the short run. The black panther will bite anyway.
I guarantee you he hasnt seen it. He has his world set up so that NOTHING “entheta” comes across his desk/chair/couch. Like NOTHING.
Isn’t it also the case that real believers *believe* that if they watch, they will not be able to hide this from their next auditor – the meter never lies! – and it will just open a whole can of Sec Check and conditions and whatever, so even if they’re curious, it’s just not worth it?
A perfect summary of ‘life in the bubble’ Steve.
The penalty for a Scientologist who looks and thinks for himself is so great, the person really needs to decide to leave BEFORE they go outside their own personal experience, to really LOOK. That is why it is so hard for an external influence to help someone leave the cult. The actions of the cult have to first drive the person to a point where they no longer fear the consequences of looking and thinking for themselves.
The further the person buys into the cult, the more they have to lose, the more they are controlled and it takes that much more abuse to make them willing to face the consequences of leaving. It is a bitch of a trap.
Exactly! Well said.
This is so well stated. Something I’ve not been able to precisely express. Looking ON the internet, reading mags etc will not get someone OUT of scientology UNLESS he/she was already intending to do so. All the stuff on the internet simply confirms it.
Every single person I’ve ever spoken to concerning leaving scientology did so for a personal reason. Uniquely personal.
Which is then confirmed by others.
Individual EP of “in”, no feeding of cognitions allowed. Just the real deal.
Mat, that is absolutely brilliant. I was never into COS, but in a cult not nearly as bad as this. From one of the protagonists in the documentary saying what impressed him was (I paraphrase) a take it or leave it, whatever works for you, when he first touched Scientology, to COS eventually sucking the life out of him.
What gets me about reading all the insightful comments here are all the acronyms. I almost think you guys could talk a whole paragraph and never have to use a word;)
Exactly Mat. You da man.
JT did get auditing from alex sibersky in the 80’s at his sants barbara ranch.alex had gotten declared and i think he was cl.12.
If JT we’re not a Scientologist, his son may have received the proper medical attention he needed to treat his Autism and associated seizure disorder. Seizures associated with Autism can be controlled with medications. I am guessing the Travolta family did not take the medical advice which may have contributed to a tragic result.
Great entertainers can’t always multi task.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGT-NUBNTZc
I loved this link! She was just enjoying herself…and she didn’t even care that everyone knew she had had too much to drink. Totally funny. Right on, Liz!! OMG!
I think the John Travolta has every a right to not see a movie. (I, myself, have declined to see movies from time to time – 50 Shades of Gray, anything with teenage vampires in it, and most horror films are off my list.) However, he doesn’t need a movie for him to know that immoral and illegal things are going on within his Church to his friends. So the fact that he declines to actually view the movie, doesn’t give him an out. He’s a weasel. He is no hero. Nice likable guy, yes, but only until you are being abused and might need his help.
The message he has given the world speaks volumes. The scoff is deafening.
Clearly Travolta is advocating censorship, even as ALL of Hollywood has seen this amazing documentary.
The fear that one has wasted many years as a “true believer” in a fraudulent, criminal organization is truly painful to accept.
Ultimately, though…it is the truth that sets us free.
Scientology celebrities who refuse to engage in real dialogue about the serious issues raised by “Going Clear” are proving the central thesis of the film; that it is a prison of belief, that leads good people to do some very bad things.
It would be wonderful to have JT or TC as a presenter at the next Academy Awards for best documentary.
OMG, I would LOVE to see this happen! I’m sure if it’s even nominated they will avoid the ceremony like the plague. It will be interesting to see if any other celebrities speak out, if their statements will be worded exactly, or at least very similar to John’s statement. Mind-control at it’s finest. I’ve noticed for years how all those celebrities say it gives them the “tools” they need for their crafts. It may not give them the tools but just make them tools in my opinion.
What an idea!
To DM, this suprise would qualify as a “Katie” from John and Tom. Bye, bye Dave.
This is a puzzling contradiction:
“I’ve helped so many people through hard times,” Travolta said.
…
The Oscar nominee instead called the documentary a product of “people who were disgruntled with their experiences.”
Why is he not interested in helping people who have been through hard times now?
Dollar, for expedient PR purposes, John Travolta is conflating the tech that helped him and that he loves and wants to defend with the abuses. See, they are two separate subjects but he’s making it out like its the tech that’s being attacked.
No, JT its the abuses that are the issue, and you know it that very well, OK? Still, my money is on you as being THE celeb who makes the break and brings your family with you. God knows why; I certainly don’t. The evidence isn’t there at all, and every odd is against it, but I have this picture, what can I tell you.
I think his release of this communication was the product of his PR people. At this point this whole Scientology celebrity thing is simply a war of paid PR people.
What his PR people cannot protect him from is the steady and sure demolition of his public image as a result of his pretended ignorance.
John, we don’t give a shit if you are gay, bi or whatever.
You could be a hero John, if you choose. But heros, though praised by society, never have it easy.
That is because, John, heros think of the greater good over personal convenience and personal PR.
Being on the side of denial, John, will only garner you bad PR.
I knew Spanky. She was the CC handler of my x wife Likki from the Incredible Stringband.
Spanky was always a sweet heart. Hi Spanky if you are reading xoxoxoxoxo.
To deny the truth of what happened to Spanky, John, will slowly eat away at your public image. Straight up and for sure.
Take the high road John. Us wogs actually have more respect for you than Tom.
Just be yourself John. Fuck the PR crap. You will become even more popular by just being yourself.
Hi Brian, I loved Likki! The ISB meant so much to me in the early days in the SO.I met her & other band members @ ASHO FDN.I still have their records gasp! & CDs.I wish I had met Spanky although I might have seen her around ASHO or @ FOLO.All of us I think had trepidation about speaking the Truth about what happened to us either in the SO or as public.One just has to “make it go right & do it”.When one has been abused in any way it becomes a responsibility & a strike @ “the heart of darkness” to,speak out. The true, the strong ,the hurt, & the brave will not be silent now. I also love your posts.A Forever Friend Ann B Watson.
Ann, thanks for the reply 🙂
Likki showed me a letter from a Flag Mission in the late seventies. The Missionaire gave Likki the letter for her enjoyment and proof.
Flag did a survey to know how all of the UK staff got into Scientology. The letter stated 60% of all the UK staff got into Scientology through the Incredible Stringband. The Stringband was a powerful funnel of people into Scientology. I was one of them. I saw her at Woodstock, Lincoln Center and the Filmore East in the East Village.
This is a story which has not been told. I have kept it to myself for many years. Likki became homeless and vanished.
I am convinced that OT3 drove her crazy. As her celebrity status started to diminish, so did the churches support of her.
I found her one day, after I came home, curled under the bathroom sink, in a fetal position, crying hysterically with eyes deep red from sobbing for hrs.
She said to me,”I was the creator of OT3, the whole universe is trapped because of me.” I, not knowing the OT materials thought to get her help from AOLA.
Knowing that she personally recruited at the ISB’s performances I was “certain” that AO would help her as Scientology owed their allegiance to this women who helped Scientology. And I believed Scientology worked.
I took her to AO and they refused to help her because she was out of money. I made a stink and was outraged that they did not help this women who helped them who was in dire need.
My terminal al AO buckled and got her a review. But before they audited her they made her sign a release for:
“we are not responsible if you kill yourself”
So here is a well known celebrity, out of cash, and in the decline of her career, mentally unstable and being asked to sign a suicide waver.
That point in time was my actual leaving the church. I realized it was a business and not a church.
After that Likki slowly started on her road to becoming homeless. It was emotional torture for me to see this play out for someone I cared for.
All of this was 1979 or 80. Before MIscavige. That is why I will never let Ron off the hook. He is source.
One day Likki’s and the Stringband’s story will be told. They were the Tom Cruise and Travolta of the late 70’s. They got many many many people into Scientology.
Brian, I encourage you to tell this story to the public. It moved me a great deal. Thank you. I’m so sorry for Likki and my heart goes out to her.
Hi Brian, Thank you for telling me what happened to Likki.All of it made me cry big time.Through everything she went thru & what all of us who ever dreamed & lived what Ron was conjuring for us to follow went thru & are still sweeping up bits & pieces of that life the best we can. For all the emotional & spiritual & physical hurt I & a lot more endured, I will never let Ron off the hook.I was way before dm obviously,but Ron was the Source of all the policy.& as I have said, I believe it was always applied as written.So I certainly know the dark side all too well.OK now for some sunshine & laughter!All Love to you & yours, Ann B Watson.
Thanks for your response Ann and DeLizzy:-)
Just a point of clarification. The Stringband’s heyday was late 60s early seventies.
At their concert’s they were allowing Sea Org staff to enter the Green Room and hang out. I was one of them. In my lanyard and blue suit.
The Incredible Stringband was a major Scientology recruiting engine.
Likki was one of their major Scientology pushers. Dan Sherman wanted to date her, Chick did date her. For some reason I won the lottery and married her.
She was dumped and betrayed by Scientology.
In the end she was delusional and craving desperately for the money to do Nots.
The last anyone heard of her was crossing the Arizona Desert. There are other rumors. But she has vanished.
Likki if you are there, it’s safe to come out now. You cannot be harmed by them anymore. You need to tell your story. Or let me know it’s ok for me to tell the rest.
Brian are you anonsparrow?
No White Star I am not. Just Brian 😉
yes i realize that now that i read your ISB story. it’s ok though, being Brian is cool too:)
Excellent advice Brian. I hope John and Kelly will come around to this point of view, sooner.
~ Chris
thank you Chris
Hi Brian. The story about Likki is a very sad one and unfortunately not singular. Doing OT levels, or even Scientology is not for everyone and can damage an already fragile emotional state or psyche. I’m sorry to hear what happened to her when she got on OTIII. Hopefully she is alive and well somewhere today and eventually got the help she needed. That would be a good ending to the story.
Thank you Pepper. Yes Likki was casualty.
In the original Tampa Bay Times article, Travolta is quoted as saying:
“I haven’t experienced anything that the hearsay has (claimed), so why would I communicate something that wasn’t true for me?” Travolta said. “It wouldn’t make sense, nor would it for Tom, I imagine.”
*Hearsay*? It was not hearsay – it was Spanky Taylor and the others relating what they personally experienced. It would be more appropriate to call it first hand testimony. Travolta could easily verify the facts – talk to Spanky or his personal aide who helped Spanky rescue her very ill baby from the urine soaked crib to seek medical attention.
*Hearsay* is that Travolta’s nice guy (passive/aggressive) way of saying Spanky and the others “lied”?
*Wasn’t true for me*? Just because his child was never in a urine soak crib with her eyes sealed shut with pus and in need of immediate medical attention requiring him to kidnap and escape with the baby, it never happened.
It’s good to see that People didn’t let Travolta’s comments go unchallenged — they quoted Leah Remini at the end, in effect giving her the last word. There’s been a sea-change in media coverage of Scientology, and celebrities like Travolta can no longer count on being able to recite their talking points with no fear of being called out on them. Quoting Spanky would have been better, but this is progress.
Leah left with her entire family. John’s situation is quite a bit different, as I noted above.
IMO, A-lister John Travolta knows that his C-lister wife would never give up on all the cosseting and love-bombing the cult gives her. She’s a huge deal in Co$ but outside the bubble, not so much. In the real world he’s the talented one with the star power and she’s just another buff, bottle blonde mature Hollywood starlet fatuously happy with her own limited talents. (Meow.)
Forget not, failing to allow onself to be freely abused, unjustly disconnected and subjected to crush reging leading to bankruptcy makes one a very suppressive person indeed which John Travolta casually handles by “Good Roads, Good Weather”. By the third time one has been GAT’d through the PTS/SP course, this would be a no-brainer.
Pretty much J T’s talking points were approved by David Miscavige.
Now if John Travolta went and saw Going Clear and was upset about any abuse in the Church
and recommended to David Miscavige to end such injustices I think he would get his ass kicked by D.M.
but it’s the I see nothing,I hear nothing I know nothing route
( Sargent Schultz from T.V.s Hogan’s Hero’s),
either way these are two rabbit holes that lead to different hell’s .
Whilst I shouldn’t be surprised by his response it makes me wonder just what it will take for these celebrities to grow a pair and say hey I made a mistake and this “group” can’t continue to treat people this way? I’ve always liked JT and thought he had more sense than DM’s buddy TC but not so sure anymore. I’m sure he is scared but so he has a responsibility to act now the denial no longer carries any weight
On April 18th, he will appear on Cleveland St in Clearwater. I hope someone will be there with a bullhorn to ask some tougher questions.
John is a fool on the Ship of Fools and he’s going down with it.
Is it really true that the church made John take his kid of the anti-seizure meds? Tory said that she fought with them to stay on her anti-seizure meds when she was in and that through her education of them about seizures etc, that they finally allowed her to stay on her meds. That was many years ago. So it would seem to me based on that, that they would have allowed John’s son to stay on his anti-seizure medications. What’s the true story on that? Anyone know?
Cindy you ask your question as though it really mattered. It’s all just gossip anyway but the difference between good gossip and bad gossip is when we can take home a lesson for ourselves. Ultimately all lessons show us how we are the same as everybody else. This doesn’t mean however that people shouldn’t get their butts kicked and sometimes that kick has to be a very hard one.
It matters to me, Roger. The reason I asked that question is that I saw a commenter say or imply that both John T and his wife, Kelly, were culpable for son Jet’s death because they took him off the anti seizure medication at the church’s behest. That to me, is making a heavy accusation and judgement on grieving parents. It is in a sense, accusing them of being responsible for their child’s death.
My point was that Tory Magoo told me a couple of years ago that when she was in the church, they were telling her to get off her anti-seizure medication because it was a psych drug and was bad. She and her mom argued with the church and then enlightened them about seizures and why it was so important to not stop the anti seizure medication and finally that got through and the CS gave Tory permission to continue to take the anti seizure meds while getting auditing. That set a precedence. So it doesn’t ring true to me that the church would then go against its own precedence to years later tell John T to get his son off his own anti seizure medications. I’m not buying that the church in this case made John T take his son off the meds. Not with the earlier history that Tory had with them. Isn’t it horrible enough to lose a child to death and then to say you were responsible for it is horror on top of horror.
Thank you Cindy. My original comment to you sounded a bit pompous as I sometimes slip into my messianic valence. 🙂
Thanks, Roger.
John is making a big mistake. He appears weak and manipulated. And he has lost so much to the teachings of this organization. When he and Kelly wake up, they will grieve for Jett again.
Yes. It will open that wound. I especially feel sorry for the guilt that will rain down on Kelly and John when they feel the weight of it. It’s not something I wish on anyone.
I think John and Tom are going to do what DM wants them to do–pretend that they are still 100% behind the Church and its aims. I doubt either is doing much in the way of receiving services these days.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/david_letterman_roasts_scientology_again_in_hilariously_random_going_clear_parody/
Miscavige, might be brighter then I thought. He realized this shit storm was coming so he knew Scientologist would need one safe channel they could watch or else they’d have to throw out their TVs which would just make them look bad. Also, with modern Smart TVs that watch back he can finally fulfill his 1984 fantasy to unprecedented levels.
The church is spending a ton of money to print out and mail out many glossy magazines of “good PR” to counteract the bad PR from the HBO documentary. Today I got a huge big magazine from them, “Scientology News” and the “Full Story: LA Model Ideal Saint Hill Size”, and the “Unveiling of L Ron Hubbard Hall” and “Racing to Victory in the Age of Ideal.” They are really hard up if they’re mailing it to declared SP’s like me.
Regarding getting promo mail. Could that be thought of as a blow to the enemy, if they knew one had been declared. Otherwise they are still hopeful for people to see how ‘successfuk’ they are. Correction, successful. What else can they do but keep trying and lying. 🙂
Cindy, I’m jealous. You get all this glossy promo and I don’t have the fucking rank. Hey, Co$, what am I, chopped liver? How long do I have to stand around here, waiting to be shattered?
I like the part after the skit where Paul says so you were in the film congratulations! Letterman says congratulations for getting in to Scientology? and cracks up. Yeah. That’s the way we like it.
This is a letter I wrote to him last night that I’ve been sitting on. I’m posting it to him on his contact me info on his website right now.
John,
Although you don’t know me from Adam, in the late 1970s, I once helped you push your car when it was stalled in the driveway at the old CC on Fountain. My husband laughed at me for days because I swooned over the fact that I had talked to you. I had a lot of respect for your work, your care for people, and your personality. You were so nice and genuine.
I wish the same could be said of you now. It would embarrass me to tell people that I helped John Travolta push his old beat up Mercedes back when he was a relative nobody because of the person you have chosen to become.
Like your good friend Spanky, I am one of the people who was abused by the Sea Organization. Your choice to turn a blind eye to those abuses does not do you any favors.
If you are afraid of what people will think of you because of secrets Scientology will reveal about you if you leave, please understand that all of us have things of which we are not proud. The most shameful possible thing is the organization which feels they have a right to reveal our secrets. There is NO secret you could possibly have which, if revealed, would not make Scientology look like the bad guy for being so slimy as to reveal it.
Please look deep in your soul and help those of us who care that there are abuses being hidden in the name of “religion.”
Thank you
Valerie
Hi Valerie, I think your letter is amazing.There are more of us abused by The Sea Organization than many people know about these days.Yet we can finally be on this blog together.Thank you so much Mike.Take care Valerie.Ann B Watson.
Plus one Ann.
~ Chris
Good letter Valerie.
Good letter, Valerie. You should CC his wife, Kelly Preston.
I think that any judgement of JohnT makes no sense at all. Who of us knows the heart of another? He lost his beloved son less than six years ago. Does anyone think he’s still not grieving? I lost my 2 1/2 year old daughter many years ago, not to death but to an extremely vindictive wife and father-in-law and an onerous divorce. We finally got back in touch many years later. I grieve for that 2 1/2 year old who started jumping up and down when she heard the car come into the driveway…”Daddy’s home! Daddy’s home.” I lost all those years of her growing up. And anyone here believes he should risk losing the REST of his family to disconnection? He’s between a very nasty rock and just as nasty hard place. I’ll cut him all the slack he wants.
Here’s the relevant quote from the Tampa Bay Times article.
I think it is some very interesting reasoning, actually:
I believe that his reasoning here is that he is keeping his own “wins” afloat in his own mind by locking out contrary factual information that might lead him to question those wins. And so it would be a personal crime to himself to allow that to happen.
It is a crime to burst the Scientology Bubble that he lives inside.
Hey – He played “The Boy In the Bubble”.
He knows what he is talking about for himself!
The question is, with all of Scientology’s talk about RESPONSIBILITY ACROSS THE DYNAMICS, why after so much auditing and training in Scientology, is he still so stuck on the First Dynamic?
More proof that Scientology does not make people more responsible, but incredibly self-centered and irresponsible for their fellow man.
Alanzo
“I haven’t experienced anything that the hearsay has (claimed),…
Admit it John, what you probably told was the doc is all BS. Of course, without any specifics.
What a liar.
Yep, and per policy who uses generalities??
“I haven’t experienced anything that the hearsay has (claimed), so why would I communicate something that wasn’t true for me?”
There is only one valid viewpoint – mine.
“I’ve been so happy with my (Scientology) experience in the last 40 years,” he said, “that I really don’t have anything to say that would shed light on (a documentary) so decidedly negative.
Try John, try.
“I’ve been brought through storms that were insurmountable, and (Scientology has) been so beautiful for me, that I can’t even imagine attacking it.”
No one is asking you to attack Scn, John. We’re just asking you to grant others beingness, empathize with another, and use whatever influence you may have with church management to stop the abuses. That’s all, John. Just be a human being.
He’s an actor. These are the lines he was given,
John Travolta needs to look up the word “hearsay.” Of course, if he’s never seen Going Clear how will he ever even know that there are in person accounts of abuse. There are thousands more not in the film. These are NOT hearsay, John.
This is a real shame. JT has a GREAT opportunity right here right now to do the decent thing – the court of public opinion would be very much on his side. How is it going to look for him when, not far from now, the cult closes its doors with ALL its gory sins in plain view. JT, like his buddy TC, will simply not be able to use the “ignorance” defence. At the very least he could say “I will see the film and make a statement”. As Mike points out, he can’t have it both ways; he can’t be ignorant of the truths within the film but be – at least unofficially – a spokesman for the “Church”. Come on John – you know it makes sense. Also, I think you’ll find that Jason Beghe, Paul Haggis, Leah Rimini and Priscilla Presley and Nazanin Boniadi are all a little more than “disgruntled”.
1. Good scientologists don’t want to see the movie because if there is one thing they have learned in the last few years (and if they haven’t they will), is that if you WANT to read, watch or listen to anything negative about David Miscavige, LRH, the church of scientology, then you committed overts PRIOR to that desire. If you accidentally (and we all know there are no “accidents”) or intentionally do this, then you will have to go in and get whatever it is you did to these principals BEFORE the accident or desire to read, watch, or listen to “whatever” and (like doing Lowers), you will stay away from this phenomenon in the future – like the plague. In fact, you will PROVE you don’t have overts against Dave, Ron or scientology by NOT WANTING to read, watch, or listen to this “entheta.” If anyone here does not know this is the tech these days, then you’ve been out a while, because this is the tech of it.
2. No, none of us have. Out here, we all have overts and are PTS to the big SP’s out here.
3. People disgruntled with their experiences with in the church have overts on KSW. They did not apply the 10 points of KSW and get their grievances handled with “standard tech.” Overts against KSW are high crimes and suppressive acts. Therefore, these people are suppressives.
(I used to cut John Travolta some slack. Not any more. Now he is just as guilty as David Miscavige, maybe worse, because he has more pull with the public at large than David Miscavige does.)
I think it’s worth pointing out that people leave for one reason: ARC* Breaks. That’s why I left. Even people who leave because they find out Miscavige or LRH are lairs; left because being lied to creates an ARC break.
https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/the-real-reason-people-leave-scientology/
LRH knew why people left. I just don’t know what to say. Also, Missed Withholds; I would think would cause people to stick around, especially if leaving meant that others would believe they had Missed Withholds.
So am guessing if you want to get someone to leave you need for them to get into a big enough ARC break with the Church… Shouldn’t be to hard to do considering how church behaves.
*Affinity, Reality and Communication.
People leave because they leave – for a myriad of reasons – maybe no reason at all. The problem with the church of scientology is that it is always overts. I say “Hooey Hooey I don’t believe.”
What you just said Mary ……..in spades! I say +1000!
Good points Mary, and aligns with my recent comment on The Scn Money Project. Jeffrey has a great article on Jokers and Degraders – http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/05/church-of-scientology-policy-outlawing-joking-degrading/
My comment was related to all the things a person can do which are indicators of overts:
If you are upset – you have overts.
If you crack jokes – you have overts.
If you criticise things – you have overts.
If you want to leave – you have overts.
If you have disagreements – you have overts.
If something bad happens to you – you have overts.
If you are not “cause” – you have overts.
Basically, any time you wish to exert your self-determinism or express yourself, the church will introvert you, sec check you and make you wish you hadn’t done that.
If this isn’t a cult, I don’t know what is.
It really sucks being a Scientologist.
Thanks for the link.
I agree, especially with your last sentence. If a scientologist wanted to make case gain – real liberating-type case gain, then he should leave.
My question to LRH: Didn’t you say that “seriousness equals mass.” So which is it Jokers are full of overts or people who are serious are full of mass??
Oh wait, I get it. People who are Jokers are full of overts but have no mass while people who are serious have no overts and are full of mass. I guess am glad to be a jokester…
And don’t forget about all of those lurking Evil Purps From83! I’m sure they must fit into the equation somewhere. Mass-less jokers rise to ever greater heights of squirreldom to the degree they can postulate evil purposes?
Yo Dave,
Can you weigh in on this good buddy and get us the GAG II hot scoop so we ‘will know’?
+1!
Newcomer, FPRD is a long expensive way to handle these overts. The church makes easy big money with FPRD style.
JT is starting to look and sound “vacant and clueless” behind those “squinty, smiley eyes of his. That might work for Vinnie Barbarino but it has worn thin for John Travolta. Ain’t workin’ anymore, JT.
When I first read the beautiful quote I thought it sounded more Barbarino than Travolta.
It is interesting that he cannot see that the old “everything is beautiful” moment has passed with the release of the doc and subsequent media coverage . The fact that the stategy remains the same is very telling . They could at least put some twist on it , but no , same old stuff. Completely silly and unworkable. But people with their heads in the sand will find some solace from his support , and isn’t it what is important to management?
John Travolta is lacking courage and integrity. His statements are ludicrous like the ones of a concubine of a murderous drug lord. “I am fine, he treats me nice.”
He has to know with his position as a Celebrity comes a responsibility. If he endorses a cult, because they treat him well, he has to look at the whole picture. His endorsement in his position exposes others to abuses so he has to care what is going on beyond his personal life.
This is a big fail on his part. He tries to run from his responsibility and on top of it he is doing it in a very dumb way.
I can see some major spoofs coming.
What Travolta lacks in courage and honesty, he makes up with his high confront.
Unfortunately this confront is not the kind that actually involves looking.
It’s the kind of confront that Scientologists posess.
Read this morning…… JT said that watching “Going Clear” is a CRIME. (My question…..punishable by whom and what?) Ugh.
Take the side of Scientology and it will stick on you through its entire demise into the sewer of history… John will get sucked down or he will have do an about face…too bad…he is a nice guy, but bad things happen to people in the Co$.
Robert,
You took the words out of my mouth…
Exactly!
It’s the kind of ‘sticky stuff’ that only honesty and truth can wash off.
Greta
Greta,
Yes, I was searching for your words when I wrote that little snippet… you said “sticky stuff” that only honesty and truth can wash off.”
Perfect.
John has stated that Scientology was especially helpful when he lost his son. Outside of his Scientology friends offering condolences and some tea and a biscuit, how exactly does Scientology help?
Specifically, I am wondering how Scientology helps “in theory.” What part of Scientology’s teachings and practices are supposed to help a person get through such troubled times?
Does it require an e-meter?
Does it cost anything?
Scientology helped me through the grief of my younger brother dying. The auditing and all that went with it cost about $100,000….plus at least another $50,000 for the meters and books and tapes, etc. I didn’t even count it all and I’m not going to bother looking back. Even though the auditing helped me release the pent up pain and see my brother’s death from another point of view (I finally came to the point where I realized deep gratitude for having had such a wonderful, amazing, gifted brother whom I still miss and love)… it certainly didn’t stop me from being shocked and horrified by the other abuses that peaked out from behind the curtain of Co$ when I started to look. My first reaction was that I could not be part of an organization that treated ANYone the way Co$ treats ANYone…let alone people who spend their whole lives devoted to Co$. My repulsion grew as I continue to educate myself on what Co$ doesn’t want anyone to know.
The Co$ claims that a person’s eternity is at stake. Hah! If your Eternity is at stake, wouldn’t it make a lot of sense to truly SEE what you are looking at? Look at the whole thing. As LRH would say: Obnose. John does not have the courage to truly “confront” and “obnose.” To see what is truly before him. It’s fascinating to watch how people are unwilling to see what they don’t want to see. And how they follow this wolf dressed up in sheep’s clothing who is pretending to “Bhhaaaa.”
Yes, John, you are in a tough spot. You’re in the cooking pot and the water is only going to get hotter and hotter.
Thank you, Zana.
Thank you Zana, you are right, he does not have the courage to confront and see for himself. Ironically that is what a Scientologist is supposed to do, to look and not listen!
Anybody? How do Scientologists grieve? What do they teach you?
You never hear specifics when people defend this particular group.
” How do Scientologists grieve?”
Thats a way too ‘low toned’ activity for a $cientologist to engage in. Buck up brother! It’s all cold chrome steel ……. all glass and no mirrors ……… all the way to the top of the ladder. Move it!
L Ron Hubbard taught that grief was a “contra-survival” emotion, low on the Emotional Tone scale, and which could be run out with auditing.
The Emotional Tone Scale in Scientology: http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/tone-scale/sh4_2.htm
Alanzo
If I remember right – from what I’ve read as a never-in – it’s foolish to grieve because the deceased is just taking a break between meat bodies and will be back soon, so you are expected to say a quick see-you-later then get over it.
And my all time favorite Alanzo:
Sympathy is below hate on the tone scale. The ramifications of this immoral placement of sympathy below hate on the tone scale is made all the more real and dangerous by how Scientology actually demonstrates this distorted philosophy with it’s systematic distaste for sympathy:
A byproduct of good study tech.
Back when I was active, if you had a personal crises, like a death, break-up or accident. You could get what is called a “Review,” This was basically an open invoice that allowed you to get auditing without pre-paying for it. Although it could be quite expensive, I saw a lot of people benefit from getting review auditing. It was a way of softening the blow so to speak. This was over 10 years ago so I’m not sure what the current scene is. I should also add that when you’re active in Scientology and you get sick like a cold or the Flu, you’re treated like you fallen victim of some horrible malady. There are probably times when this really benefited someone who was on a path that was going to go from bad to worse. But in my experience, it seemed mostly like a way squeeze the public for more services. Never let a crises go to waste translates clear down to the person level and is part of the Scientology culture.
“He put himself in the position of being a scientology spokesman and he cannot avoid the responsibility and questions that come with it.” – Mike Rinder
Spoken by one who’s been there, and who knows.
Alanzo
While JT is not known to have economically benefited from $cientology like Tom (burlwood) Cruise, he does play the ‘dead son’ a lot. Every few months, ever since Jett’s death, he does a ‘they helped me with my dead son’ interview and then out pops the ‘they spent 2 solid years with me’. If that just doesn’t scream brainwash, what does?
That he derides what happened to Spanky Taylor with the lack of ‘positive experiences’ meme is too freakin cruel and nasty to do anything but shout, ‘bite me, you chia headed clam’. It must not take long for chia head ‘hair’ to become blinders.
“It must not take long for chia head ‘hair’ to become blinders.” LOL!!! that one stopped me in my tracks. Hilarious!
I find it a particularly irksome of him to play the “dead son” so often when it is a very real possibility that it is scientology which cost his son his life by witholding his anti-seizure meds.
Yes, John, they “helped” you with your dead son. Could you please stop thinking about yourself for two seconds so that you can have a moment to reflect about how they “helped” your son before he died ?
Why isn’t Jett’s death considered a “negative experience”, especially since it could have been avoided by medication?
Zemoo, respectfully, I disagree. He lost a child. I don’t think there’s any loss that can equate to that kind of loss. I know a couple who lost a beloved child in his teens decades ago and they’re still not over it. Its very possible that the church assigned (for its own selfish and greedy reasons) people to listen to him, acknowledge his grief whenever it would come up. This is no small thing to someone experiencing a tremendous loss like this, and I might add, especially since its probably killing him with doubt that maybe he could have kept his son alive if he’d allowed him drugs, etc. Dealing with grief is bad enough but with doubts that possibly you caused the death – that is a healthy slice of hell, and he’s going to be very grateful to anyone who stuck with him during the worst of the unbearable pain.
I agree with you, Aquamarine…that he is grateful for the help with his son’s death. The auditing helped me with the death of my younger brother….it brought up so much that for 5 years I was still bursting into tears at odd times during the day. That being said…what about the people who have been disconnected from their LIVING children? Their LIVING loved-ones…children, parents and grandparents who have disappeared down the black hole called the Sea Org. ?? I would think that lots of parents are stuck in grief, especially if they brought those kids to Scientology, raised them in the church and handed them over to Miscavige.
Yes, I think that JT has compassion. Something wonderful about him. Even so, I think that if he were to say something Kelly would rip him from his family, take one of the planes, at least half the money and he would be left with no family at all. Kind of adrift in the world. He wouldn’t have his church that he thought so highly of and he wouldn’t have the family that has been his foundation in life. He would be adrift on his own. Things are not so bad for him that he has to split… like they were for Mike Rinder. Mike literally had to leave EVERYthing behind and start all over. Thank goodness he found a wonderful woman and has started a new and happy family.
Aquamarine, I agree that losing Jett was a terrible experience, but when the clampire devotes one or more ‘auditors’ or ‘ministers’ to your mental health care, when does it become ‘control’ and not ‘counseling’? I pity JT for his thick chia blinders, but he can easily cut them back and look around.
JT’s ‘Prison of Believe’ has very thick bars, bars that JT installed himself. If the Spanky Taylor stuff didn’t get to him, what happened to his empathy? JT asks for empathy from everyone else, where is his for Spanky?
Ever since Jett died, Travolta has come out every few months with a ‘they helped me with my dead son’ press interview. That stuff probably didn’t drive any new meat into a mOrg for brainwashing, but it has provided some of the few positive things said about $cientology in the last few years.
JT is at the least, an enabler, at the worst, very complicit in the scam. Either way, he should not be allowed to hide behind the ‘dead son’ meme.
Same for Tom Cruise.
jgg2012: people die from seizures every day in the US, including those on seizure medication. Jett’s case was a severe one and he had been on medication which wasn’t really helping him. Recently I saw a documentary on medical marijuana and it detailed how it helps people and young children with severe seizure disorder. It can actually stop seizures all together but must be used daily. There are also dogs who are trained to warn the person or caregivers of an impending seizure and this is quite successful too. Jett’s situation was pretty sad but I believe that his parents tried to do the best they could for him based on their understanding and whatever information the medical providers were giving them.
+1, Alonzo
Read this morning….JT stated that seeing “Going Clear” would be CRIME. (My question….punishable by whom and what). Ouch.
YEs, he states it in this article. Probably should have commented on that 🙂
The word “crime” that John used is standard LRH view on any other view than “Scientology is perfect.”
Ron says that all critics of Scientology are criminals. He said that all critics pasts have revealed criminality. He said that this is what his “research” has revealed everytime.
L Ron Hubbard is alive and well in the cognitive mouse trap of wrong or false knowledge of his disciples.
“All critics are criminals” is a view from a mind peopled by delusional enemies and SPs.
Dear Brain,
If you ever read the book “Three Felonies a Day” which makes a compelling case for that it is almost impossible not to commit felonies on almost daily bases. You’d realize that LRH is right every critic of Scientology is a criminal.
Oh well, From83, I guess that’s that. LRH is right.
CM, see my comment to find out the scientology tech. You’ll see what JT means by this. John Travolta is clean. Spanky clean.
Thnx for pointing that out. Mike add note to your article, PLEASE!!!
He will say he meant a crime to his integrity, beliefs, etc etc. But maybe someone should ask him him if it is a crime per scientology policy.
From a never in…………sorry, the man has no balls, no empathy, no brains, and no logic. Humanitarian, human rights advocate?????? No he gets JOY, well whoopie. Take your joy and shove it.
I have always loved John Travolta… just seems like a great guy with a big heart and big talent. However, now he is complicit in the crimes of Scientology precisely because he REFUSES to look. Because he INSISTS on being run by David Miscavige and because he is unwilling to think for himself. It seems as though he has no need to think for himself…everything is going fine, he does one film after another, owns a couple of jet planes that he gets to dress up like a captain and fly his jet himself. He lives a pretty fantasy-like life. He has no need to look any deeper. Even so…it’s a betrayal of our trust in him. How is that going to work out over time? Who knows.
It makes me a bit sad to think that a talent and person as charmed as John Travolta could be so willing to practice “learned stupidity.”
I don’t know him, but something fundamentally honest and decent communicates to me about John Travolta, and despite all the odds, out of all of them, I’d put my money on him as being the one to come clean, way before Alley, although I think she’d be next once he came clean, and eons before Tom Cruise, who, I believe will go down with the ship.
Down with the yacht, Aquamarine. 😀
I hate to see this. I still love the guy. He is a great actor and, outside of this, he seems to be a great human being. But fuck it John. You need to wise up and make a decent response. You aren’t just a member of the church. You got a Freedom Medal for having influenced thousands, if not millions, of people to buy the Dianetics book. You have a greater responsibility than most.
I love John Travolta too. I’ve loved his films and I too have a sense that he is a thoroughly nice, warm, person. Its just something that has emanated from him, even when he was Turl, lol. I couldn’t get him as an evil being.
Well, that being said, he obviously has his marching orders.
I agree, Aquamarine. Turl (or I think it was Terl?) was a complete evil lout in the book, but Travolta couldn’t help but make him a little lovable.
Someday, I hope Travolta may know that the world really doesn’t care if he is gay, bisexual, or whatever else, or that he believes in Scientology. What I hope the world does care about is the truth about how Scientology functions so differently for celebrities vs. the horrible acts against non-celebs.
Travolta knows it would be a crime to see the movie. He has no doubt been told so very clearly. He is following the lowest level of morality, similar to that of a child, holding that it is wrong because if he does the action of watching, he will be punished. (It must be wrong if I will be punished!)
PS I have to admit, I actually liked the book Battlefield Earth. The movie though was horrid with its over the top acting and tilted camera angles — it could have been a very good sci-fi.
Dave and Tom, please forward:
John,
Good to hear that scientology ‘helped’ you through the death of your son; what about those who have experienced DISCONNECTION?
So basically what John Travolta is saying is:
I don’t give a crap what they did to Spanky. They treat me like Royalty.
Miscavige never smashed MY head against a filing cabinet so it never happened to anyone else. Dave’s a nice guy to me.
No one ever put ME in a garbage can, poured cold water over my head and put a “I’m gay” sign on me while screaming “what are your crimes.” So it never happened.
MY family is intact and I don’t want to hear about YOUR family…it’s entheta and might make me feel bad.
Here we have Gibney calling out Travolta and Cruise for complicity in not correcting obvious abuses.
Here we have Travolta utterly proving Gibney’s point.
Oh, John, did you see Gibney’s documentary on Enron? You know he was just lying through his teeth. Lay never did one thing wrong and Enron was a totally ethical organization. Just a bunch of disgruntled ex-employees with an ax to grind.
It should be amusing to see how this plays out in the media.
“MY family is intact”. How much does his silence depend on that? He’s seen what happens to others. Oh wait I forgot that disconnection doesn’t exist, sorry.
Isn’t he implicitly saying that other’s families aren’t intact?? It’s sort of like saying “The Captain wasn’t drunk today.”
Disconnection does not apply to high visibility Scientology members. It does apply to everyone else and it is applied with ferocity.
You are describing the mindset of a hardcore solipsist. It’s hard to promote that worldview when reality comes crashing in, but JT soldiers bravely on. He is, in effect, saying that nothing else exists in this world outside his own experience.
Isn’t that the ultimate utilization of “What is church for is what is church for you” So if you avoid seeing the movie you can maintain what is true for you and not have to change it.
Love it! The film “Enron” was just about some disgruntled employees, and millions of disgruntled customers.
Precisely!
Spot on! It would be wonderful if he somehow read this short comment. Can only but dream…..
+++ 100, Les. “Plus, if I say that I watched it, they’ll fine me another 30 million dollars and I really cant afford it.”
Next time you’re in Idaho, John, go see Les and Anita. Maybe you can do the Indie “Truth Revealed” Rundown.
The repetative command is, “Find out what David Miscavige is REALLY doing to the people you got into Scientology.”
I think the fact that both Tom Cruise and John Travolta made official comments on the film and church on the same day shows that the church met with them and formulated a PR plan on how to “handle” the film and the bad publicity, and thus the official statements from these two appear on the same day. This is even more proof that the church tells people what to say and how to act and generally runs their life.
The comment I read by TC was a spoof; I don’t believe TC had made an official comment.
Of course it was a spoof. Do you think the Third greater Being in the Galaxy, after LRH and David Miscavige has time to waste on the hearsay coming from bitter apostates paid by big pharma and the psychs? Tom is working hard to get rid of all those body thetans still hanging around and when he’ll be ready he’s going to fly a DC8 to target two and get acquainted with
the unbelievable tech LRH developed since he continued his research without the limitations of a MEST body! Go TC Go! Teegeak is only for DBs and not for a huge, grand, massive, supernova thetan like you!
Tom is also too busy selling off ALL his real estate. Is he doing a project prepare to go in the Sea Org to be with his BFF for a billion years (after he donates all of those funds to DM’s Ideal Yacht)?
Maybe DM wants him in so that, when the little man blows, he can take his little Tommy-Toy with him to International waters?
Answering your earlier post about JT saying he wasn’t “that into Scientology back in ’83/84” (there was no “reply” button
Quite right. He wasn’t, as I recall. He married Kelly in 1991 and his life changed … he now had a family.
Those who have lost a child or an adult child through disconnection will ALWAYS have the hope that their child will wake up. AND of course they are very very thankful and elated to have all this exposure regarding the abuses brought to the public eye. Hoping the child WILL WAKE UP.
Where there is life, there is hope …
I was on the blogs for years before coming forward with my name and ONLY did so when Karen lost her son. I was so outraged that I came forward.
Subsequently, I’ve gone back to my “screen name” for my own personal reasons. Which are mine and my right — I’m sure you’ll agree as you indie8million post with a screen name.
All this being said — I believe we must continue to expose the abuses, applaud those who come forward and TRY to remember that once upon a time we also drank kool-aid.
I left before you left before he left before she thought of leaving is a game best kept for those still in 8th grade. AND there are none that I know of who threw off the cloak of delusion and deception WITHOUT some sort of turning point that changed them on a dime. It’s not particularly a pre-meditated idea. It’s something that acts as a catalyst.
Mine was the suicide of my father WHILE I was “saving the planet” … I never recovered from that pain and blew three months later in the stealth of the morning leaving a note about going for a run.
I was only missed the next day and never once thought I had blown. WAY too ethical for that.
Hah …
BUT I immediately connected to friends in LA and married a never on staff, Sea Org or otherwise scientologist.
It’s been a HUGE process for me. It’s not an easy one to REALLY look at how you’ve organized your thoughts, your past lives, your future lives … the lives of your lost family etc etc and realize at some point.
IT’S ALL A COMPLETE FABRICATION and worse — the work of a mad man.
Not easy.
Cut JT some slack. And all those still cemented to this jail house of beliefs.
It takes time.
It’s taken me over 22 years since my last service. And five minutes since my last conversation with an old old friend. To see YET AGAIN where I had been blind sided.
Windhorse
Wasn’t Travolta getting auditing outside the church at one point, in the early 80’s from Alex Sibersky?
Alex Sibersky was not declared. He was auditing in the field with some sort of connection with CC New York Darby Simpson.
Mike called it I believe a few days ago. Travolta isn’t going to leave and lose his family. As “odd” a family as it is — it is his family. And he dearly adores his children. The loss of Jett can probably only be “confronted” by weaving some storyline about his rebirth etc etc
Sad. Now IF Kelly were to start to have a crack in HER bubble — then I think he’d be out in a heartbeat.
Not had any negative experiences? Not so.
In either 1982 or 1983 I read an interview with John – 3 or 4 page interview – where he said, almost word for word, “I’m not really doing Scientology much anymore. I love the technology but I do have concerns about the current management.”
Remember, John?
I have tried to find this in the archives of “Good Housekeeping” to no avail. Maybe someone who has more access to their records could help us find the article. It’s possible that it was a different magazine but that’s what I recall. Maybe there’s a national archives of all magazine articles?
So, Scientologists are accussed of lying. Chalk up another one. That’s right up there with ‘Scientologists choose to disconnect from their mothers, sons, daughters and spouses of their own free will.
Scientology’s Pinnochio nose keeps growing.
Be careful, John. If you keep lying, your face won’t fit in the cockpit.