This is another of the endless lies scientology spins to the world:
Subject: Re: Your Contact Form
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:03:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian at Scientology Info Center
To: [email protected]
Dear Xxx,
A while ago you wrote in asking who was the President of Scientology.
That is Mr. Rev. Heber Jentzsch.
What made you interested?
Best regards,
Brian Hinojosa
Heber Jentzsch has had NO position in scientology since around 2004 when he was first put into the Hole. He has not been sighted in public except to attend his son’s funeral after his ex-wife shamed him into it. He attends no scientology events. He answers no communication. He is unavailable to the media.
He is no more the “President of Scientology” than Guillaume Lesevre is the “Executive Director International” (the most senior management executive in all of scientology according to L. Ron Hubbard — this is the post Hubbard said he held when HE ran scientology) or Ray Mithoff is the “Senior Case Supervisor International” (the highest technical terminal in scientology, also according to L. Ron Hubbard and the person responsible for assuming his “hat” as the technical czar of scientology).
If any of these people (or anyone from “International Management” – including WDC, International Executive Strata etc etc) were actually on post, wouldn’t they attend the most important events in scientology? At least as a token gesture? The public are expected to attend. Events like L. Ron Hubbard’s Birthday celebration? They could just jump on the plane that Dave flies down to Clearwater and it wouldn’t even cost them any money. Same thing to go to Atlanta (or they could have been put on the bus if flying would be too good for them). You can bet not a single one will be in attendance for the “most monumental event in scientology history” – the opening of the SuMP. Just as none of them were present for the previous most monumental event in scientology history, the opening of the SP Building.
Warren McShane, in a deposition I think, said that Heber is “on a sabbatical” or something like that if memory serves. It is a more artful lie – but that is what he is known as, the artful liar (Miscavige has told me and others many times that Warren McShane’s ONLY plus is that he is a good liar). Why can’t they just say “Heber was removed from post” or “Heber is no longer on post”? Because it would raise too many red flags about a much beloved person in scientology. And it would raise another question — “Who is the President now?” Another can of worms. They don’t have anyone to be President — and Miscavige doesn’t want anyone taking any of the spotlight off himself. And if they did name someone, that person would have to make appearances and would be sought after by the media…
So, the pretense goes on. And this dweeb doesn’t even know there is no such position as “President of Scientology” – the position is “President of Church of Scientology International.” He just pumps out the party line that Heber Jentzsch is the “President” has probably never laid eyes on the man. He answers this way because that is what the script says to do.
Heber Jentzsch, like Shelly Miscavige and any other leading figure in scientology has been disappeared. And apparently everyone simply accepts this as “normal.”
Bless you, Mike, for posting this.
I hope the world starts to learn his story and that someone sends a search and rescue in for him, before it’s too late. “Let him die” Dave might take care of our dear Heber in the same way that Dave told the PIs to take care of his own dad.
We’re waiting for you, Heber. Say you wanna go. You’re family can’t wait to see you.
And Dave – if Heber dies in your care, I’m holding you personally, spiritually and karmically responsible in the full extent of the Law of Attraction. Rubber band, baby. It always springs back on you, over and over, like Ground Hog Day. Better get him out now or it’ll be on your head.
Hi indie8million, Your post sings as does your spirit.xxoo X l trillion.Annie.
Well Put .
Why I became a scientologist and did stay with that 43 years .. oh, it is simple, I got ftrom,ethics indications about my state of being .. and I thought it may be true .. because it did fit my thoughts in some way .. I was a wiild one .. I was always able to go berserk ..
It was always my ethics why I could not come clean with the church .. my ethics not the ethics of the church ..
I believe Sea Org members like Heber and Shelley Miscavige are victims of human trafficking. The below is quote from an article I read today on human trafficking and feel it applies to Sea Org members especially those at the Int Base, in “The Hole”, on the “RPF”, or on the “Freewinds”:
“Law enforcement officials stress that everyone has the potential to discover a human trafficking victim — you just have to know how to reach out to them, and where to spot them. According to the U.S. Department of State, here are some red flags that could alert you to a potential trafficking situation that should be reported:
• A person is living with his or her employer
• Multiple people are living cramped in a small space
• A person is unable to speak to you or anyone alone, or their answers appear scripted or rehearsed.
• Employer is holding identity documents
• A person appears submissive, fearful or shows signs of physical abuse
• A person is unpaid or paid very little
• If someone is under 18 and in prostitution
“If a red flag does go up, here are some sample questions to ask:
• Can you leave your job if you want to?
• Can you come and go as you please?
• Have you been hurt or threatened if you tried to leave?
• Has your family been threatened?
• Do you live with your employer?
• Where do you sleep and eat?
• Are you in debt to your employer?
• Do you have your passport or identification? If not, who has it?
“If you have a human trafficking tip to report, call the National Human Trafficking Resource Center at 1-888-373-7888. This is a national 24-hour, toll-free, multilingual hotline.”
Jethro Bodine that’s all interesting info. Except for one fact. Both Shelley & Heber are free to leave… They do NOT want to leave.
Who told you that, Mike? Whether they do or do not want to leave, whatever gave you the impression that they are “free” to leave?
Sure, they are free to leave, if they want to try to scale that razor barbed fence around the Int base, with the razors pointing IN so that people can’t get OUT.
Might I suggest that you reach a book called “Blown for Good.”? You tell that to Mark Headley who could have gotten killed because the “cherch” people were trying to run him and his motorcycle off the road so he’d crash and they could bring him back.
Are you still in?
Get over this – http://s69.photobucket.com/user/sadhu77/media/GoldBaseFence.png.html
Do some research Indie.
I’ve searched YOUR handle and you are a dyed in the wool El Con fan lacking the use logic. Proof could flatten you on the highway and you’d still be moaning, “prove it”.
I follow the G. Carlin maxim in these cases.
Jethro, the people in are coached how to answer those questions. I would guarantee you that Shelly or Heber would say no they had never been hurt or threatened nor has their family, they don’t live with their employer, their employer provides “berthing” for them. blah blah blah
They would give glowing accounts of David Miscavige. I asked one person “what do you think of David Miscavige?” He quoted Tom Cruise’s Medal of Valor speech back to me, the whole kind, compassionate, etc. spiel. I laughed and said “so you’re chinese schooling Tom Cruise’s Medal of Valor speech now”. He sputtered and said “well it’s true.”
I would have said I was free to leave even though I was watched constantly (even after I left).
I could post nothing on this (and maybe I will decide to do that after writing this), but … can’t help myself. I do not think it is impolitic, lacking compassion or understanding, or “bashing” someone to suggest that there is an ELEMENT at least of personal responsibility by the very top followers and those who implement the orders of any powerful suppressive. Not only responsibility, but actual NECESSITY that these people flow real power to and actively support and CARRY OUT the orders of the suppressive for the SP to remain in power at all. Heber may currently be 80 years old and have suffered 15 years of intense psychological and physical abuse … but thirty years ago? He was then one of the most important and prestigious names in Scientology. I think I first saw him perform at my org at an event in 1972 (he was a singer/actor). Heber was a fire breathing supporter of “the establishment order” in the CoS at all times and had great prestige with both public and staff. He not only carried out orders, but lent his personal reputation to those orders, whether to the IAS’ founding or any Miscavige scheme. This is just a fact. And yes, if you watch the Donahue video or any other one you can find, he was ON THE ATTACK. There was no other legitimate point of view than the one HE put forth. And if you believe Karen DLC (which I do) Heber was himself under attack by Miscavige from the start, so he KNEW what was going on.
Similarly, Shelly was in effect her husband’s org officer and communicator (making Davey’s “postulates stick”). She was one of the “point men” for the abuses and insanity. Again, I do understand the effect of being close to, working with, and carrying out the orders of an SP over many years and what that must do to a being (and having sex with him too, I presume). And I DO have compassion for these people and hope they become free some day. But it isn’t one view or the other. While acknowledging what they have gone through, like Debbie Cook, it ALSO must be recognized that they (Heber, Shelly, Debbie, etc) not only are part of the reason that there IS a Miscavige being in power for three decades, but that they also contributed mightily to building their own prisons (which Debbie of course, did “un-build” and escape from, more power to her).
Without recognizing individuals’ personal responsibilities in supporting and propping up an SP, and ALL of us learning an important lesson on how this applies to US, there is little chance that as human beings, we can prevent this phenomenon from re-occurring in the future.
Thoughtful comment. And I agree. Though it doesn’t mean one cannot have compassion for those still stuck on that hamster wheel on the front porch of eternity.
Absolutely, Mike. Many of those still on the wheel are our friends, still stuck in the slavery.
Very well put Joe! Wise
Hi Joe Pendleton,Thank you for your post which got me thinking.I own responsibility for my situation in the Sea Org because I did willingly sign the billion year contract in the first place.What I have learned many years later is that I truly believed those at the top were the most Ethical Thetans to ever manifest.It took so much abuse of all types to get me to wake up and see the real truth.I was the spring lamb amoung wolves.
Heber of course is responsible for himself as is Shelley.Anyone still willingly in would be of the mind set to continue to believe in it.I have this hope that perhaps there are sparks of power working from the inside out to expose the truth.They are my heroes too.Love,Ann.
Well put Joe. Everything is up for inspection.
Being made less of for freely looking, being made into a demon for knowing, being labeled an SP, PTS, Merchant of Chaos for SEEING causal relations in this Scientology system of living………… is:
The product of having Ron’s psychological profile. The true Satan in Scientology is criticism.
There are still folks imprinted by this. I still find parts of my cognitive faculties affected.
I was 18 when I signed up. My formative years in Scientology helped me to consider Heber a hero.
I was 100% percent in agreement.
There is a thought that existed in me regarding SPs at this time. I remember after Heber’s rally’s that I would have the thought that I wished SPs would die.
I remember one day in my car having this delusional make believe OT power. I actually was trying to kill, at a distance, with my “tone 40 intention, some SP I’d just learned about from these rally’s
These memories are very strange. I’ve handled the self shame and self embarrassment. But still…………………………….it’s very unnerving to know that I actually was taken to this dangerous state of being.
The greates good for the greatest number can create Mother Thersa or Mao.
I am grateful that I got out before this diabolical indecency made any further inroads to my cognitive faculties.
My new way of seeing:
If love is not part of it, I want nothing to do with it. I now know what it’s like to be in a mind numbing cult. I don’t need to learn that one anymore.
I think X Scientologist’s have learned, fiercely, the importance of intellectual sovereignty.
Hi Brian, Your post is like a jewel of experience and from the good and the bad knowledge will emerge.All you posted echoed for me.Thank you Always xo Ann.
I get your point Brian, though please never hold up Mother Theresa as a paragon of virtue. She was an EVIL dwarf that used dirty needles, ravaged souls from dying people and was always more interested in the money and expanding her operation than saving anyones life.
She hung around dying /dead people to recycle their souls. Do a search she had an exorcism performed on her in the late 1990’s.
If you look under the hood of this woman she was EVIL
“That is Mr. Heber Jentzsch. What made you interested?”
Well, cult, what makes you paranoid?
It is rather an ordinary question on its face.
Unless of course you’re the Church of Scientology, in which case an ordinary question like this is infused with danger and problems.
My answer would be another question: “Can’t I ask a simple question about my religion?”
I’d bat their bullshit right back at them.
Can you imagine the Roman Catholic Church responding this way to someone asked who the Cardinal of So and So is, or the name of someone with a position next in line to the Pope?
Quite some time ago, I received an email from Flag about the Ls or some such thing “signed off”, the Senior CS Int. I wrote back and asked a similar question: Is the Senior CS Int still Ray Mithoff? I got back a similar sort of answer: Why do you want to know?
Why do I want to know?
Earlier, Mike Rinder told some of Heber’s story here ~~
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/
Oh Karen that hurt my heart. No one deserves to be in the hole. No one. It sickens me. I had read this before, but it stings each time. I hate Miscavige with a passion. He is pure evil. xo baby
Thank you, Karen. Some of us have known Heber for 40 years. I miss my old friend and I worry about his health.
Hi Karen#1, Thank you for your post re: Mike Rinder & Heber. It helps remind me if I were still trapped in the bubble at any age,but especially as I hit 65 this year,I would have secretly loved to have known that those I knew who escaped were thinking about me and wondering…xo Ann.
Heber has been disappeared. Nicely stated Mike. My view is compassion, tolerance, understanding, is what he needs.
Harsh judgmental comments are from the playbook of Sea Org staff members. In my view.
The Stockkholm Syndrome is relevant, I agree. My guess is he has a mindset that he is there for LRH. He’ll live with the harsh circumstance he finds himself in. Even if he can see things that are wrong. And, next life, he’ll find LRH and have a better shot at it. It is screwed this lifetime. I believe Shelley thinks like that too.
They have not read ANY books by those once in. None. They have a 60’s or 70’s reality of LRH. They are completely isolated from the tons of information on the Internet.
One person will get up and leave. From London, or by motorbike out the front gate. Another will be severely spiritually smashed and degraded, and will stay, hoping, or waiting, in a sad, sad state. They are not the same. Each has their own circumstance.
How the hell can I be the judge of what they are experiencing?
I visited a friend of a friend in the CLO and saw an old man, pulling weeds, hardly recognized me, and he has seen it all but has no energy left to do anything. Outside he has nothing. Once he was a successful retailer and joined in his sincere view, to help mankind.
It is not he who we should look at, but the systematic betrayal of those counterfeit dreams that are sold to people who really want to help.
When I joined, I was completely sold on the goodness of it all. And, tongue in cheek, I always thought I was a smart guy. Damn.
Like people at the top of other religions they don’t actually beleive what they are selling. They use their power over others to live richly off the backs of parishioners hopes and fears. I don’t know for sure but when you see an interview that Heber did it seems like he didn’t beleive it himself. He had this crooked side smile.
Yes, I saw this, too, esotericman. I hear what you say. I’m torn but a good part of me says they are spineless. Debbie was there in The Hole with them. So was Mike Rinder. So were others who made it out. They knew. Jentzsch, Lesevre, iMithoff – they know, too.
Hi Subreption, Your post really resonated within me.Thank you.You are a very smart man,and your views are most perceptive.Just my thought but when I joined Sea Org in 74 I genuinely believed I was saving myself and the planet with Ron.I feel so grateful that I and all who left turned that invisible key in the lock and ran toward freedom.Love,Ann.
IS Heber still a much beloved figure in the COS? It would seem that most of the people who knew and love him are outside and the new people don’t even know who he is.
as a never in, I know who he is from reading your blog and Tony’s, but would any of the new generation of scns know him? it seems they’re not a curious bunch, or they can’t afford to be.
maybe he looks really bad, or is very sick or just is gone mentally and that’s why they can’t take him out to events. what a horrible thing to contemplate, that he is being poorly cared for in his old age. of which I have no doubt, since it’s been proven that the COS doesn’t take care of its older members.
I wonder if all these people in the hole will get the chance to emerge at the SuMP opening. If Miscavige is desperate enough for a large audience, he could empty Int Base to add numbers to his yanking ceremony. Dare we hope to see all these long time holers then, if just for the ceremony?
We may see them sneaking away as COB cuts the ribbon….
Oddly enough nobody ask a question in the church… no curiosity… weird ! Unable to see huge out points.
Well, Leah Remini did. 🙂 And when she was treated horribly for doing so she rounded up her family and left the building. Many don’t though. Those that do finally put 2 and 2 together and come up with 1,000 then get the heck out.
Just a note to anyone still “in” and coming up with 1,000—you’re right! All those questions you have are great questions and you know you don’t dare ask or suggest anything seems wrong. Don’t let anyone make you feel stupid or less than what you really are. What you SEE is what you see. Compare it to LRH policy as well and come up with 2,000. If you want to stay on the Bridge you can find a much more standard indie auditor in about 5 minutes and you can make progress without your pc folders. There are C/S Series issues about that. Don’t be scared.
Stop messing around and get the heck out.
FG and gato rojo,
So right you both are. Nobody IN asks questions as Co$ makes it plain that it equates the asking of questions with disloyalty and disaffection THAT ALREADY EXISTS with that person!
This “church” figures, with some justification, that anyone asking questions is reading the internet, and anyone reading the internet is at least one foot out the door ANYWAY.
And, of course questions are loathed because they can’t be truthfully answered, ergo when the cult get questions thrown at them their SOP is to introvert the questioner and otherwise make it as inconvenient and expensive as possible for the questioner.
And it works. Those who want/need to stay in, stop asking questions and do as they’re told. As one OTVII – a very sharp lady and quite successful in her media field, btw – responded to me, when I asked her some questions about Ideal Org fundraising, “Oh, I don’t know! We just go with the flow!”. Big shrug of the shoulders, innocent stare…I just looked at her, said nothing, walked away.
You can’t talk to people who don’t want to see, refuse to look. There’s nothing to say because there’s a WALL they’ve put up there.
You are quite right questions are not encouraged, the only people I’ve seen asking difficult questions are those who have either just joined or are outside the ‘church’ I remember at one event someone asking a tricky question (can’t remember what it was) and it was as if everyone in the room tensed up and their attention focused on this individual.
individuals at the local org would drift off and no one discussed them, unless you directly asked a senior member of staff that was the last you heard of them.
Hi, FG. They daren’t. When I was still in, I asked but in a whisper to my then friend as we were leaving an event. She didn’t answer. That’s how it is in the cherch.
I have seen comments today to the effect that since Heber was so high up in the inner circle, he should have seen the light and departed, and to the effect that since he was near the top he had a greater responsibility.
It’s real damn easy to be an armchair critic of Heber, but unless you’ve been there and done that, kindly rethink your criticisms. People like Heber, Ray Mithoff, Guillaume, Mike, Marty, were very specific targets of concentrated suppression direct from Miscavige in a virtual never-ending assault. Unless you’ve personally been in that position – years of it – then you have no idea what effect that actually has. You think you know all about it, but you don’t, unless you’ve been through exactly that. Miscavige spent over years bringing Heber down to that level of cowed effect. He started by building him up, making him President CSI, giving him huge offices, an assistant, showering him with gifts, making him think he was one of the chosen elite…then spent the next 15 plus years taking it all away and letting him know what a piece of shit he was, finally started the extensive punishments, and finally hauling him off to the hole. If you’ve been there then criticize away, I guess, but if you haven’t think about it first.
Was The Midge the one who elevated Heber to president? I thought Heber was president while LRH was still alive.
Here is where you have to hand it to the little sociopath….. How was The Wee One able to physically get Heber into the Hole? And how was The Tiny Terror able to politically neuter Heber?
Hi SadStateofAffairs, Thank you for your post.I think I have a feeling and knowledge on what you posted about concerning higher ups and what they should have known.In my personal experience in Sea Org and with a similar situation, the higher ups I would have bet my Thetan on should have known did not know. Not their fault.Once a unit goes rouge all bets are off.Love,Ann.
Heber was Pres CSI before DM took over. ALL the “OTs” suppressed by Dear Leader were done so with their agreement. It was His way or, the Highway. They decided to do it His way.
Exactly, Sadstate. Exactly.
Perfectly stated, Sad. There seem to be so many posting on the various blogs, stating opinions and certainties, who have never experienced ANY of scn at all. Much ado about nothing.
SadStateOfAffairs, many others received the same or similar treatment as you describe but they left. You’ve got the guts/strength/character/a tiny bit of self respect left/whatever, or not; or you’ve had one last insult or been hurled abuse just one time too many, the last straw on the camel’s back, and something inside says, Enough! And you bolt. There has to be that. Some have it, but these people don’t. I can’t agree that it’s so one sided. These are grown men…. I find I can’t make excuses for them, not now, after so long. These people, if they truly believed it was for the greater good of mankind, would for this exact reason. They see the abuse of power first hand.
Are we sure Heber is still even alive?
Maybe not . . . Annie Broeker comes to mind.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/ann-marie-tidman-1956-2011-in-memoriam/
I have never seen Heber Jentsch personally, but I liked him .. sorry for him that he could be suppressed .. but this is what every scientologist has to learn .. you are always suppressed .. as Jon Atack said currently .. you are PTS to Hubbard when you are in .. if you have the crazy ideas of Hubbard .. you must win .. but that is an overt act at the same time per Hubbard .. per Melbourne ACC .. The greatest overt is blaming others for overt ..
Next one is State of Man .. with his withhold theorie .. which he never solved himself ..
I met Heber and had one on one communication with him when I was a public and KA drinker back in the 80’s. Very nice and competent guy. Loved by all. I saw him speak publicly, probably the last time he was ever seen in public, in around 2011. It was at a big IAS dinner in LA to honor all who gave a lot to IAS and who didn’t mind paying $100 a plate for a bunch of cheap carbs and a stupid chocolate fountain. In the past waiters would serve you. At this one, to save money, you had to stand in huge long lines to go to the buffet table. Heber was at a table only 3 feet or so from my table and he had a whole entourage of SO with him at the table. I was going to go talk to him, but from the dirty looks I got from those around him, I got the idea it was not allowed. He looked nervous and was sweating and his lips were moving as he read the paper or cards in his hand. He was obviously trying to memorize his speech and was worried about delivering it correctly. I remember being shocked that his “TR’s would be out.” Now I know why. He was hauled up out of the hole, cleaned up, dressed up, and taken to show off at the event. And then after being trotted out on display, Heber was taken back to the Hole. I noticed after his speech, he didn’t even stay for the rest of the festivities . The whole entourage had slipped out early. Now I understand that he was under house arrest at that time. So sad that a good man like that was broken in the Hole.
Hi Cindy, Thank you so much for your post.It was enlightening.Why I got out and why others fled and why some of the best and the brightest stayed to be abused over and over-a mystery that only those still in can solve and even then it is probably too late to even begin to formulate an escape.In my humble opinion and in the beginning of my time with Guardian’s Intel I thought well I must have done something very wrong because those above me know best. It did not take that long for those altruistic feelings to go out the window.Abuse is abuse no matter what color cloak it carries.Love,Ann.
Thank you, Ann. Heber was a victim of DM and of the Stockholm Syndrome. And as others have stated, making someone go without sleep is a form of torture used by countries against enemies and might even be against NATO rules. Add sleep deprivation with hard physical labor, long hours, and bad or little food, and you get people who have no energy to even try to escape or to even think straight. And per the Stockholm Syndrome, they believe they did something to deserve it and that the SP in charge is right and they are wrong. It’s so sad. I’d like to see a billboard go up (and I’d contribute money to this) saying, “Where’s Heber?” or “Free Heber!”
When my kids still spoke to me, and were trying to “handle me,” I told them of Heber and the other execs being disappeared. They went to their Scn handlers and came back with the party line and told me, “Heber is doing fine. He is on post at Int, is semi retired and spends some of his time writing.” They acted like he was doing almost nothing and enjoying his senior years there. Ha! This is the crap that the Scn handlers tell the young people and they believe it and pass it on as gospel. The only writing Heber is doing is O-W Writeups, and since he’s long since given up any he had, I’m sure he is now into making up imaginary O’W’s so that he can have something to show compliance.
Hi Cindy, Sometimes it is all sad and backwards. The consensus of my cancer docs is that sleep deprivation food deprivation spiritual and physical deprivation very probably caused a gene to switch into breast cancer mode years and years later.But I stay focused and tell that gene to continue to stay switched off.
Heber and all those who dream of and believe the smoke and mirrors that is cos,I still send you love and hope one day you will look up and walk out.Love,Ann.
Well put ./
what happened to Janet ..the V.P.
I thought Bob Adams was the VP, or at least, the last named one?
From the people I have spoken to who have left the church and drawing from my own experience, there is a certain point where leaving comes about. It seems to be when people have subjectively experienced some pain or pressure that is more uncomfortable than the threats the church put there, but you’re not broken yet.
Sounds about right, I’d wanted to go for several years as I’d not got anything out of the endless study or the auditing, however I didn’t want to rock the boat so just kept turning up as little as I could get away with to keep them off my back. A few years ago they did something which really pissed me off and this was the kick I needed to get out.
What with all the farsar on Heuber /Lerserve .My big question is What do their family think they are doing . Or just refused communcation to them.Surely to God their parents if alive , or relatives would be asking there whereabouts. Even if no contact.
I met Heuber a good few times and personally His lady then Yuonne while in ST Hill and LA she was nice, He became aggressive in his time, but earlier whilst married to Yuonne was not perhaps due to who he works or is controlled woiuld have shifted his valence. Lerserve I knew well since he was My Boss at Folo EU based in Copehagen Denmark can’t say to much about him since to many years gone by, and therefore who or what he became I don’t know.But when I knew him he was a good guy.
Heber is 80 years old. He was one of the 42 children with 5 polygamous wives. His father, Carl Eugene Reinhold Jentzsch, died in 1991 at age 90. I do not know the details on his mother. After Heber’s son’s death in 2012, his brother did try to contact him, he got to talk to him once after several tries. There is a comment down further that has a link to that article.
Guliamme LeServe is in his 60’s by now. He’s been in scientology for many many many years.
People may or may not have looked for him, but even when you locate someone like that, “they are happy and busy working for the church”. It’s the standard line. How many times do you have to be told that before it’s not worth asking?
The day before I quit for good, if someone had asked me, I would have told them I was extremely happy in scientology. I am willing to wager that anyone in a high up position, even Mike himself would have told the same story.
Tony has a story on his blog today about Lucia Ribisi and her fear of the czscerch long after she left.
The fear and the lies run deep.
Hi Valerie, Thank you for being the miner that strikes gold.”The fears and the lies run deep”.Exactly how I feel.xo Ann.
Valerie thanks for he replyI did know most of what you wrote and concerning the son One can express you know
I met Heber only a couple times.
The time he should have fought to the Death
has come and gone.
Pure aesthetics my friend, there is a Viking soul somewhere inside of you.
Heber was my friend when I was in. I have the unique distinction of having ridden the Alpine Slide in Park City, Utah with Heber and Yvonne about a year before Yvonne died.
I was aghast at the way the man changed and became a David Miscavige inspired caricature of what he was years before he was disappeared. Heber was not the crazy eyed zealot that Miscavige forced him to be. He, however had a huge faith in scientology.
He has been a prisoner for so long now I don’t believe he would be able to function in the real world.
I still hold a lot of love in my heart for that man. He and Yvonne helped me a lot at a time when I desperately needed it.
Hi Valerie, Thank you for your lovely and sensitive post.With all we have been through,I too can recall at least five SO members who were very concerned about what was being done to me,but their hands were well tied so all they could do at the time was watch and try try to help me.
I will always love that little bunch for wanting the tech to be helpful not hurtful, they just did not have the pounding I took that eventually made me see the light.I agree with you in that it is so hard to return from Ron and dms’ World and function in the present one.For me it took a leap out of the “nest” of cos toward a different path.Like Diana perhaps Heber only knows the path of cos and does not wish to leave it,if he is still with us.xo Annie.
Terrific words re Yvonne, Valerie. She was one of the sweetest and most competent people I ever met while in. I had the pleasure of having her at my home when she was visiting my city and the local org asked me if I would do so. She was great company, a charming friend and about as ethical as any human I’d ever met.
Talk about calling the kettle black…WTF?
I just noticed the photo of Heber holding up the $ciendollatry Magazine cover where they claim:
“Psychiatry – Multi billion dollar fraud”
How ironic and tragic really!
Heber is imprisioned (physically and mentally) by his own “religion” –
Full circle!
SCIENTOLOGY – a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR FRAUD!
Very soon Slappy Miscavige will hire “actors to pose” for the dog and pony show that is Scientology!
Sorry – just gave the midget an idea!
🙁 Free Heber!!!
Wognited and Out says, Heber is as free as he wants to be. ONLY Heber can decide when Heber leaves the CoS.
Wait….what? I thought all the people that show up are 90% actors!
Judging from the most recent appearance of David Miscavige (or someone who looked vaguely like him) at the Atlanta ribbon yanking, that seems to already be happening.
Part of the domination aspect of the cult led by miscavige is – you better accept what you are told as if there is any slight inquiry about these long gone executives, or other forbidden matters, you will be hounded by ethics, security checked for hours at your own expense and much more just for asking questions that could, as you said Mike, take pompadour off the spot light and start revealing his crimes.
So, as a good Scientologist, you better be quiet and do what you are told. An empire of robots led by a sociopath.
A congregation of 15,000 and maybe staff of 5,000 does not make an empire. It’s a two-bit elitist club for rich people, a bad fraud scheme with tax exemption.
+1! Outstanding post, esotericman! Right on the money.
“…two-bit elitist club for rich people, a bad fraud scheme with tax exemption.” I’ve never heard a better description of the cult.
This is true. Those, like me, who actually PROTESTED the executive abuse and enforced abortions were seen the door. Most long-time members actually know about such things occurring too – they are the ones who told ME for the most part – but they simply don’t have the guts to stand up to it. Much easier to continue turning a blind eye, lest the thought police come to break up their family too.
Hi alcoboy, Thank you, your post was interesting. I knew Yvonne from letters with her and then she actually sought me out to introduce herself after an Asho Sea Org briefing by her.I will say it again,a beautiful soul and lady.I saw Heber there that time but I did not interact with him.From a distance he seemed a gentleman but this was 74 a different time to now.
I feel for all those in cos who cannot or will not speak out against abuses seen all around them.I have gone past being angry with them, just really sad they will not open their eyes and see.Ron dm whoever may try and become a third dictator for cos,the turning inside out of the tech and the bridge will have eventual massive negative repercussions.The train has pulled out of the station but cos will jump the tracks right off the rails as it were.I knew his family were Mormons but that was all I knew.xo,Ann.
Ann, when I was on the BC I audited an exec from CCLA. One time when I was there to audit this person Yvonne was in the room he was in. I was introduced and she thanked me for being this person’s auditor. She was indeed a beautiful soul and very nice lady.
Hi Potpie, Thank you from my heart.xo Ann.
I used to feel sorry for Heber and Guilaume.Now I feel sorry for peolple who feel sorry for them.
If even lowly Sea Org members can wake up and see the light, the same powers of observation can be asked from “leaders”.
Continueing to accept the abuse shows they put their desire to be right in front of anything or especially anyone else.It is not all Dave’s fault.
When you are starved, deprived of sleep and beaten for so long a point comes when you just don’t have the energy to fight back.
That’s absolutely right, alex! They’re kept in a constant state of exhaustion working 112 hour weeks for pennies. They’ve been beaten down for so long, they just accept it now. They really have become Davebots. They’re slaves and they don’t even know it….
Hi alexdevalera, Thank you your post described what happens when with weeks and weeks of all types of deprivation,there does come a point where I was so exhausted that I had zero energy to fight back.Yet somehow from the depths some fire inside would not burn out.Why should I have sent myself to the RPF when I had done nothing wrong? I enjoy your posts.xo Ann.
Hi Ann, this is exactly the point I’ve been making. You got out, in spite of….
Hi Dawn, Thank you,I have enjoyed your posts too.After thinking about what you posted,I can see that throughout my whole Sea Org experience and after,there had to be a tiny light like a pilot light that could not be extinguished no matter what.I guess part of this was really seeing the more Ron spouted Ethics in on the planet and the universe,the more out-Ethics the entire cos became.Now the only Thetan to emulate is Money.For David.Love,Ann
“When you are starved, deprived of sleep and beaten for so long a point comes when you just don’t have the energy to fight back.” This is so true Alex, and explains, to me at least, why Heber doesn’t break free. They broke him. He has the Stockholm Syndrome. Sometimes I wish we could just storm the place and rescue all of them and get them out.
I feel the same way, Cindy. Some of them would fight us and stay but maybe, just possibly, others would allow themselves to break out if they felt they were being “forced” to leave, if you catch my drift.
alexdevalera, excuses, excuses. What about the many, imprisoned, starved, sleep deprived who never lost the will to escape and escaped. We shouldn’t make excuses for people who should know better and should do better.
There is a special place in hell for people who sit on the fence.
Oh, I forgot: some were drugged as well. They escaped.
It all comes down to PERSONAL responsibility. Since it is a FACT that anyone can leave scientology, they cannot claim what happened to Patty Hearst as having happened to them.
+1! Nice post, Xenu’s son.
The psychology of victims of long-term abuse is very, very weird.
They often praise and excuse their abuser to no end, even when it makes no sense.
I know a person who has been submitted to such abuse (both physical and mental) by a narcissistic partner for around 6 years. Only after months of strictly enforced no contact (and constant psychological support), she is now able to see, just a little bit, how much of an asshole he is – but she still has doubts, still has the habit of excusing his behavior, and even feels guilty when she does something that makes her happy without him.
I can’t imagine how long and how hard it would be to get someone like Heber Jentzsch out of this mindset to become himself again, or even if it is possible.
I disagree. It shows the power of brainwashing. His free-will was removed long ago.
Some may “snap” out of it. Many don’t.
I snapped out of it once. It left a bruise…
Patty Hearst became just like her captors. The Stockholm Syndrome is interesting and probably accounts for a lot of how people act when in captivity.
http://www.biography.com/people/patty-hearst-9332960#kidnapped-by-the-sla
Hearst’s experience with the SLA, particularly the details of her transition from victim to supporter, has sparked interest for the past several years, including countless psychological studies both inspired and bolstered by her story.
The shift in Hearst’s behavior with the SLA has been widely attributed to a psychological phenomenon called Stockholm syndrome, in which hostages begin to develop positive feelings toward their captors, an effect thought to occur when victims’ initially frightening experiences with their kidnappers are later countered with acts of compassion or comradery [sic] by those same individuals.
Love bomb, attack, love bomb, attack. Hmm….who else does that?
Valerie, I know a woman who’s been with the same guy for 35 years and all that time has suffered verbal abuse of the worst kind plus he’s always refused to marry her. All this time she has made excuses for him continually. She leaves him and then returns. She always makes him right for his verbal abuse and racial slurs. She is Hispanic-American and born here and he is white. They are a sick couple. She will never leave him because she is terrified to be alone.
I feel the same way as you do, Xenu’s Son. Most of those mentioned in Mike post were appointed by or with Hubbard, not that I’m a Hubbard supporter, to the contrary, but they surely know the difference between right and wrong. They haven’t made a stand. I can’t feel sorry for them.
Brian,
That is incorrect. How were you duped?
It’s interesting that Heber is beloved within Scientology but I think the public has a much different view of him – I think especially of the Phil Donahue interview that’s can be found on YouTube. He came off as greasy, slightly evil, and a liar. All these executives are just as responsible as Miscavige for abuses that have ruined lives. At least Marty and Mike left, which is what you do when you have a conscience.
Remember when Phil said something and Heber said, in a very loud voice, “THAT’S A LIE!” And then Phil dropped his head as said, “You could have said I misspoke.” And when Heber said that, he looked really pissed off. But, of course, being pissed off is a core trait of Scientology.
True that OSD. Also, the deeper into the commission of the crimes the “victim” was, probably makes it harder to “see the light” too. As Heber certainly was with his involvement with GO/OSA.
Heber was a nice person. But Heber led frequent GO update briefings in Lebanon Hall in the Big Blue, late 70s.
Those briefings were like Nazi youth gatherings. Heber would get us all frenzied up with fighting international and cosmic SPs. We would jump to our feet and give him applause or we would turn to this ginormous pic of Ron and hip hip hooray, clapping and standing ovations.
Heber was deep in the GO at a time when Scientolgy was in “destroy utterly” mode.
Heber led Nuremberg rally style events. Heber was deep in the Kool Aid.
He must have been involved in programs that harmed people.
Heber led the war cry in destroying enemies. We all felt he was close to Ron and the tactics of fighting SPs.
It is deplorable what has happened to him. But I can’t help wondering if his present condition is the result of some of the suffering he helped create.
Heber was a charismatic fighter for Ron. Heber wanted to take over the world for Ron.
And the wrong knowledge, the violence against critics, the belief in Ron’s “only way” status has cause him to be his own prison, prisoner and prison guard.
I hope one day he can see the light.
And you applauded him when he was in power. And you kicked him when he was down. You get all dangerous on people, when they are dead or crippled.
It might behoove you to cut back your gradient in forays into religious experiences to the Bible.
Hate to break this fact to you Oracle but, when a person is high up the food chain and thus knows MUCH more of the criminal crap going on they have a HIGHER responsibility to expose it as they know MORE.
Simple logic. Doesn’t matter whether YOU agree or not.
Well Mike, you have shifted the topic. This is the first mention of responsibility at the top. I did not disagree as this is the first mention of it. You imply I disagree about something you just proposed. I did not.
However, those at the top carried a larger burden. I do not see the justice in condemning someone who carried a larger load than I. Who took on more responsibility than I did. I do not see it as my right to judge them.
Not shifting. Simply explaining why one duped would be upset at Heber (or those in his position). The person who applauded Heber early on and then condemned later does so because he didn’t have the unsavory knowledge that Heber had at the time he was applauding him but, came on it later and Heber STILL hasn’t “fessed up”.
That you cannot figure that out from the data given is not my fault.
I will even extend this criticism to those who had the data about the upper levels giving NO special powers yet continued the charade.
I care not one wit that you are not up to understanding that level of responsibility. It may or may not come to you in time.
Fessed up? I swung from mercy, to responsibility and debts. Now it’s about true confessions?
Did you ever think about the fact that when you get into Scientology, you mock up a “Scientology mind”? It relies on your “Catholic mind” for the confessions and exorcisms.
I did note your dabble into Middle English. Thank you for the prophecy. May you someday find the worthy company you deserve.
In fact, I agree that my views do not matter against someone who took on more responsibility and made greater sacrifices than I did. If it was done in the spirit of serving mankind.
I only criticize Miscavige’s treason because I think he serves only himself.
I liked Heber. He was friends with my x wife. We were all serving mankind Oracle.
But that “service” to mankind also had destruction of critics as a purpose and implementation.
Because we bought into Ron’s version of “serving” mankind, harm was done to critics.
Pointing out ignorant behavior is not hate. It’s just seeing.
I remember Lebanon Hall being packed a number of times.
The hall was rife with emotional retribution against SPs. Here was the pide piper of this frenzied hate.
We all left that gathering vowing to fight these cosmic delusions that were part of Ron’s paranoia.
In pointing out Heber’s contribution to this madness, I have no malice towards him. He was a very nice guy.
But he was president and he did lead the war cry against critics.
I feel for his plight. But his present condition has a causal relation to his actions.
And he called us all to arms in fighting Ron’s make believe. But that make believe was aimed at real people. Real people got hurt. And Heber was part of the cause.
I’m sure his intentions were good and pure in believing he was in the right.
Yet his shoulder was positioned against the wheel of violence against critics. He was a major player in setting up programs against people.
His niceness is not in question. His definite responsibility in promoting violence against critics is well known.
Knowing this about him is not hatred of the elderly and crippled. Knowing this about Ron is not disrespect of the dead!
It is simply knowing historical truth.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything. How you see it is 100% your own. You have a right to it.
I simply see it differently. I respect you see it differently and you think I’m an ill intended bafoon for my view.
I expect that’s how you perceive me. 🙂
Here’s a hug!!!!
Brian it is not a matter of how I perceive you. I do not perceive you at all, since I do not know you. It is not about you.
I have never met Heber and I have no idea who he is or how he was.
What I do know is that he cared about the world and the people in it, and he gave everything for his convictions.
He has lost his wife, his career, his Church and his only son. He was set up for losses and he lost everything that mattered to him. He spent more than you. He has lost more than you.
He has been tortured for years.
Isn’t that enough? Must you take away his good reputation? Must you take that away from him? Can’t you leave him with SOMETHING?
Mike Rinder dedicates himself to bringing the truth to the table and translating information so people can know and understand what is happening and make more informed choices in their life. So they can KNOW.
He wrote no malice towards Heber in this post of his, I have no idea how someone managed to weave a witch hunt into this thread.
Have a heart man, everyone was set up for a loss.
Ok, I get it. You weren’t there. So you cannot know what the effect of these rally’s had. From your point of view it’s just me being a negative ninny.
Heber’s passion had us all smelling blood. The blood of the evil cosmic cabal. It was insidious. Not withstanding his niceness, these rally’s were down right demonic as the hatred against SPs had our blood boiling.
These events happened. You had to be there. But you were not.
Thanks for clarifying Oracle.
No, I was not there. But I have crossed your path out here, and I am here now.
And Heber is not the only person to rile people up with hate and get them smelling blood.
Ok, thank you Oracle
Frankly, not sure I could complain that someone working for 25.00 a week did not do enough for me.
“I hope one day he can see the light.” Me too. However, I’m not counting on it. Heber said to his brother, “There’s only one way I’m going to get out of here (the Hole which continues to not exist). The inference being he’ll leave when he dies.
I thought Shelly sad that quote about “there’s only one way I get out of here.” That was attributed to Shelly if memory serves me of earlier comments on the blogs.
She did, but Heber also said it to his brother.
It was reported by Tony Ortega:/
Nope, was Jentzsch to his brother:
“He said, ‘I don’t think I can ever get out of here.’ But I told him, ‘You have to try.’ And the last thing he said to me was, ‘I’ll never get out of here alive’.”
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/scientology-president-heber-jentzsch-told-his-brother-ill-never-get-out-of-here-alive-also-alex-jentzschs-last-phone-call-6711825
That’s correct gtsix. He made his decision and for whatever reason(s) doesn’t want to leave. As I stated elsewhere, only Heber can save Heber. Same goes for Shelly and anyone else in that situation
Imagine wasting away in the non-existent Hole, like Heber is doing. All of your days are the same. You know you’re never leaving. That’s how people go insane.
It blows my mind. Especially for someone like him who has extensive external support available if he decides to leave. Maybe he’s too embarrassed to face his family or just cannot face that he wasted his life.
Shelley too. Living in a community property State means that if she leaves and divorces the midget she gets 50% of all wealth accumulated during the marriage.
He could have left with his brother, if he wanted to. He knew too much? He could have sort police protection – something, surely?
Gosh That remark gives an indication he has no intention on getitng out / and has accepted he dies in there.
Yes, Hadley, he’d already decided. I cannot have respect for him. Sorry.
I’m sorry you went through this: these rally’s are emotionally abusive, akin to evangelical preachers playing on emotions to get you to come down to the pulpit to be saved.
@esotericman, I attempt to live by the credo “Do not judge me til you’ve worn my shoes.”
I was in the GO at the time Heber organized those rallies. I was there because Heber pulled me out of an amazingly horrible situation and transferred me to the GO. There are things I have not told also, except to the FBI and my attorney.
I guess because I’m not out yelling at the top of my lungs everything that happened in the GO while I was there, you probably rank me on the same level as you rank Heber even though I have escaped.
I attempted to tell my story once and was vehemently labeled a liar by dozens of people at ESMB, at which point I just shut my mouth.
I am not trying to be angry here. Heber was a child of a polygamist (I was the great grandchild of 4 polygamists so Heber and I have that in common too and used to discuss it at length). Heber was raised from birth to exhibit blind loyalty to his religion. This doesn’t make him a bad person.
I firmly believe that Heber’s performance on Phil Donahue was orchestrated by David Miscavige putting him on the firing line because Heber thought faster than DM. Unfortunately, by then he had already been puppeteered in to being someone he was not. I watched some of his old speeches on YouTube after Miscavige made him a mouthpiece and shake my head at the person who is not Heber who is spouting those things.
The Heber I knew was a kind, caring person, Miscavige hated him. Karen D has a photo of him getting birthday presents from people and Miscavige is there, you can see by the look on DM’s face that he has nothing but contempt for Heber. IMO, Heber was someone Miscavige took great pride in defeating.
Also, I strongly believe that when we were in, none of us were who we are now that we are out. Scientology was a big mindf**k. I went against everything I learned as a child, and compromised my integrity more times than a human being ever should.
It took over 15 years after I got out before I could consider myself mildly sane again, and sometimes I still run into mind shrapnel even though I’ve been out a few less than 40 years now.
Heber was above me on the food chain by a long shot. He still treated me with respect and consideration. That holds a lot of sway. He is probably very aware of the fact that if he were to escape, he would be a hunted animal and is possibly just too tired to care, so he keeps his mouth shut and head down.
Hi Valerie, Again a stunning post. Thank you I was seriously transported to a space where I could see perfectly the tragedy of those who will not see.How many more lost spirits and bodies will be sacrificed on the altar of Ron and now dm before the smoke and mirror show is blown to the four corners of the earth and all the seven seas with the truth about this cult.Love & admiration,Ann.
Valerie, thank you for your post. It really increases understanding to read about what you have gone through and how it affected you. Also same comment to Ann B., thank you for sharing, stay strong, sending you love every day. – T.J.
Hi T.J., Thank you because your kind words and wonderful posts to all keep me going.I will try and do as you posted.Isn’t Valerie amazing? As are you and yours.xxoo Ann.
Esotericman: It seems to me that not only do you have to have a conscience but you need to have an individual with enough fight and will left and ready to make, or take advantage and assume the risk of, an opportunity when it arises. It is a very complex situation and not easy to have the stars align.
As I was reading Mike’s post about Heber I was thinking thank god Mike (and a few others under different circumstances) had that alignment come together in London in 2007 when COS relaxed its guard for a second and he made the run. It helps that he was a no-bullshitting Aussie and had the balls. He’s been the gift that keeps on giving to those who hate injustice and see COS for the dark force it is.
Not to take away from other defectors from this Con-Science.
Hi tony-b, An excellent post.Helps me.xo Ann.
tony-b, good points. I always wonder how one can make it out yet another is not empowered enough. I believe each person is different, and what would be the final straw for one person is something else for another, and the total mind control and influence is so strong, people are coerced into acting in ways that are against their best interest.
If a person has that spark of courage still alive deep inside, that hasn’t been totally smothered, even if it looks like it has been, and that person him or her self feels it has been, the flame can still come back to life, and they can make that mad dash to freedom, even while looking back at all they are forced to leave behind. I am happy to see the people who did break the mental bonds posting here, and hope those still in can find a way out, and soon. It is still not too late for Heber – where there is life, there is hope. Let his final years be lived in freedom.
Well said, [email protected].
What I find hard to believe is how this would come to be, there is a very specific org board that lays out how it is to be administered. How could so many people that have been in good service and be so well trained to allow this to become a reality. In all honest how could such a brillant subject be relegated to what it has become. There should really be alot of pissed off people. I have enjoyed your blog Mr.Rinder, thank you. David Miscaviage will go the way All tyrants go just look at the likes of Saddam, Bin Laden, Gadaffi they too knew all the fucking answers. His legacy will not be good needless to say. Scientology’s Adolph Hitler. Just wait and see, thats right just see for yourself the inly way you will know. Thank you.
Howard, the answer is super simple. The “Church” of Scientology was set up as an ABSOLUTE dictatorship. So, like every other dictatorship, when the dictator dies, a new one took over. Miss Cabbage was first picked and raised to the top by the former dictator.
I’m pretty sure Davy has a bromance going with Kim Jong un. They text each other about beating people up and using slave labor. Kim Jong un was so excited one day he actually called Davy.
Kim: Hey Dave! I just killed one of my officers with an anti-aircraft battery! You should have seen it! It was great! There was NOTHING left of him! How cool is that?
Davey: Wow, Kimmy, you da man! I would love to do that to some of my underlings. I do have some really cool Slave Labor / Reeducation Camps scattered around the country. I keep people there for years and years. AND THEY THANK ME FOR IT!
Kim: No fucking way! Really, after you abuse them, they actually thank you? Is this something I can learn? I want all of my citizens to thank me after I put them in our slave labor camps. That asshole I shot up with Anti-Aircraft fire didn’t say a fucking word to me! HE SHOULD HAVE THANKED ME! Fuck! I am so pissed off right now!
Dave: Go out and kill someone you don’t like. That will make you feel much better!
Kim: Great idea, Bro!
I really believe that David Miscavige was not the person that L.Ron Hubbard had chosen to run the C of S after him. It appears that LRH named several people, including Pat Broeker, to succeed him, but nowhere named Miscavige.
Often, after a ruler’s death, there is a power struggle and the person who wins is not the person best suited for the job, rather it is the person who is the most ruthless, conniving and exerts power by under-handed and covert means. This person may not be the ideal person to run the group.
Sometimes the person who assumes power inherits it simply by being close to the leader during final days and is able to exert control over them. The notorious criminal leader of the FLDS, Warren Jeffs, inherited his power this way. He basically manipulated his father Rulon Jeffs during his illness and incapacitation and assumed his power. He was the worst leader, corrupt, amassing huge personal fortune while his people were left in need. Yet many follow his lead, even now, while he is in jail.
I think Miscavige is the same type of ruler. I don’t believe he was chosen by L.Ron Hubbard to be the next leader of the group, and has caused it’s demise, while increasing his own personal wealth. Yet people follow him, because ‘he is the leader’. Not a good leader, not chosen by Hubbard.
T.J El Con named NO ONE to replace him. He simply elevated a few people to the top of the heap and went out fighting one last, pesky BT.
“Scientology’s Adolph Hitler.” Howard, you’re right on the money.
What “brilliant subject” are you referring to Howard? Surely not Hubbard’s administration “tech” or his Machiavellian “org boards”. There are countless Wharton and Harvard MBAs that would take great delight in pointing out the absurdities of his organizational policies and his over reliance on meaningless statistics. You can’t scatter plot visionary leadership Howard nor can you histogram non-linear thinking, both concepts anathema to Hubbard’s “tech”.
Or Enron and L Ron.
One very nice gesture was the new religion/American religion academic Gordon Melton did call OSA and ask to stop by and see Heber, some years ago, when Gordon heard of the news of Heber’s being put in the Hole, and OSA told Gordon the same, that Heber was on sabbatical.
What has been Janet Wieland’s role through the yeas, I believe she has picked up some of the old Heber hats of contacts with outside religious allies.
Janet is a very long term Sea Orger, she goes all the way back to the Apollo in her PR duties, I wonder why she’s not more in the limelight, she to me far surpasses Karen Pouw I always thought.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/osababes/janet02.jpg
Janet Weiland
Per a blog post of Marty’s a couple years ago, Mark McKinstry remembered seeing her on the RPF as of 2006 in PAC.
Red Flag? This church is smothering in Red Flags.
All of their buildings should be covered in red paint…
and all their parishioners should be wearing red blindfolds.
As the Church of Redology spread their wings…
“and all their parishioners should be wearing red blindfolds.” Touche.
Who are you Dave? A mix between Jun il Kim and El Chapo.
Or between Bernie Madoff and P.T. Barnum?
Not even close. 24.9 million are under the sway of Kim Jong Un in North Korea. El Chapo, leader of the Sinaloa Cartel – the largest crime syndicate in the world – again affected millions through crime and drugs. Dave is in control of what… maybe 15,000 people? Dave leads a two-bit religion that’s mocked world wide. He’s like the owner of a private golf course in a metropolitan area: a bunch of rich business guys paying the fees to be apart of an elitist club. His leadership is so outrageous that it makes disproportionate news coverage.
Personally I see him as more of a closer at a used car dealership who moonlights as a personal trainer. He gets to wear the slick suits and act official during the day, then changes into glittery spandex outfits at night to abuse unsuspecting clients. The outfits are a big part of the reason he likes his job.
Alice, Post o’ the Day! The visual was funny as hell.
I met , I believe, one of Heber’s daughters at CCNashville before we moved into the new building. Sad to say but Heber could be dead for all we know. Same with Shelley and the others although I hope not.
Incidentally, I once wrote to him a few years ago seeking advice on joining the Sea Org. His advice was rather strange. He basically recommended that as an active Mormon that I not do so.
Maybe that’s why he wound up in the Hole.
You don’t have to be good or bad to end up in the Hole, you just have to be near enough to DM to be noticed. Then, it’s GOODBYE! As has been noted elsewhere, DM does not have a “good side”. That is not entirely correct. DM SEEMS to have a good side while still has a use for you. THEN it’s goodbye! The important thing to remember is, the certainty of a “goodbye” coming. People who have been declared and expelled have the additional advantage of not being around DM. This is a great extra to the wonderful relief of not being around the Co$ and it’s coercive malignant control over every aspect of your life. Remember the saying in the 60s, “don’t trust anyone over 30”? The new saying for the 80s. 90s, 00s, 10s and beyond is “Never trust anyone that isn’t Declared!” A badge of honor, of free thinking, of doing the right thing. I’m Declared? Great! LET’S PAARTY!!!
100% correct description of being close to the demented midget
Yep they are probably all lined up in the sci death building in Hollywood. Tragic.
Just to set the record straight, Heber had stepdaughters with Yvonne, and a son (now deceased) with Karen DeLaCarriere. He had no natural born daughters of his own. His only child died under less than savory circumstances, and his mother, Karen lays the blame at scientology’s feet. I agree with her, though it has never been proven.
http://tonyortega.org/2012/12/10/autopsy-report-of-scientology-presidents-son-contains-odd-errors/