This is a brand new letter from the infamous Cara Golashesky, the so-called FLB “Justice Chief.”
It is a letter to a person who has NEVER BEEN TO FLAG.
He never signed any waivers or agreements.
He did nothing other than hand over his money, and when he politely asked for it back as he had never made the trip to the US to partake in the “Flag Welcome Package” he was told to go pound sand.
Here is his statement:
Now that was some “welcome” from the “friendliest place in the world.”
This is Flag think: We come to Italy and make you all sorts of false promises about the miracles we will give you. We insist you give us your money NOW, in advance of arriving in the US. We will then not live up to our representations concerning “return of donations” though you didn’t partake in any service in over 5 years and when you ask for your money to be returned we inform you that we have now decided you are “declared” and so you don’t qualify to get your money back.
Interestingly, the “FLB Justice Chief,” from “Senior HCO” doesn’t cite L. Ron Hubbard policy to support her refusal to give this man back his money, she cites “law.”
Amazing flip-flops scientology engages in — when they are in court, they pull out “policy” saying the court cannot interpret it or make any judgments on it because it would be a violation of the First Amendment (see garcia case). And when they should be following policy on internal church matters, they hide behind the “law.”
So, just for shits and giggles, here are some excerpts from the policy written by L. Ron Hubbard that the Senior Hubbard Communications Office of the “top training and processing org of the world” should be upholding.
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 23 OCTOBER 1963 REFUND POLICY
In thirteen years, involving hundreds of thousands of hours of processing and millions of dollars of income, in any organization where I was assuming direct command I have always promptly and immediately caused to be refunded every penny of the money paid by any person who was dissatisfied with his or her processing. This has been the consistent policy I myself have worked with.
…
I have only worked then with these three policies:
- Refund at once in full any refund demanded;
- Work hard with tech staff to ensure good results;
- Forbid the sale of further processing to anyone receiving a refund and make the case known to Scientologists.
It is notable that all but one refund were made to persons with histories of insanity who had been accepted unwittingly for processing.
Recently, Australia was sufficiently remiss in following the Code of a Scientologist as to incur potential legal action. I did not understand why and investigated. The facts resulted in my sending a cable to the Continental Director requesting that he do the usual—refund the money and locate the bypassed charge. The case promptly resolved. What was shocking to me is that he had not immediately refunded, whatever else he did. Of course, he was absent when the incident occurred, but still his first thought on finding the matter out should have been to refund the money, not because of threatened legal action, but because AN ORGANIZATION IS BOUND BY THE CODE OF A SCIENTOLOGIST.
…
A tough refund policy injects aberrated stable data against the confusion of bad or poor technical service. A mild refund policy keeps technical on its toes.
…
My own often-repeated policy to my personal staff is “Give them what they want and keep them happy.” That sounds like a very indefinite policy indeed. But it makes people face up to and handle individual confusions as they occur, each on its own merits; it presupposes people are basically good and it is successful.
…
A refund policy is an agreement-type policy. Needful. But it must be very mild indeed or it will stand in lieu of good service.
The new policy then is:
- Refund any fees when and as demanded, whether for training or for processing;
- Refuse further and all future training or processing to anyone demanding a refund as the condition of refund;
- If (2) is not acceptable to the person demanding the refund, then do all possible to smooth out the case or training situation;
- Count only on high technical results in the HGC and Academy to inhibit or reduce demands for refunds
Of course, I am merely a bitter defrocked apostate on the fringes of the internet, but this seems pretty clear to me.
I can only assume Cara has not done the new GAT II Student Hat so isn’t able to duplicate what is written by the Founder?
Just a tip for you Cara, “HCO” (let alone “Senior” HCO) is supposed to ensure the writings of L. Ron Hubbard are followed to the letter. Not the oft derided “wog law.” In fact, according to Mr. Hubbard it is your job to bring the world into alignment with scientology principles as everything in the wog world is too aberrated and vicious and injust.
But to get really nit-picky now Cara, I would also point out to you that there is even a reference to this exact circumstance listed in the HIGH CRIMES right on page 312 of your bible: Introduction to Scientology Ethics.
It states the following as a Suppressive Act:
Demanding the return of any or all donations made for standard training or processing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of departure of the person demanding (the donations must be refunded but this policy applies).
I guess you missed that bit in red…
And this one even trumps the other justification often used — “the Claims Verification Board and the Scientology Policy Directive from 1996 are the latest references on how to deal with refunds and repayments.” Ruhroh. This book was last published in 2007. It IS the latest church policy and it’s even “by L. Ron Hubbard” not some unnamed “Board of Directors” or “Watchdog Committee.”
Bottom line is, when it comes to money — taking it from others or keeping it once gotten — the golden, and only, rule in scientology is this: anything is OK as long as the money is coming IN and not going OUT
In scientology money may buy you love, but it definitely buys you protection, status and immunity from criticism and penalties.
Afterthought: Their gritted teeth refusal to return any money is yet another indicator that the squeeze is on. If they were really rolling in 47X expansion and money was pouring in the doors, there would be no reason on earth not to just give this guy his $12,000 back. Hell Miscavige spends that on a few pairs of John Lobbs…
Wow, I wish I could have shown this to someone I know in the SO. This would be an eye opener… I just hope my frienf is not too far gone. Been in that place for 1/3rd of life.
I asked for a refund and my terminal on the other end of the phone made me feel guilty saying that the refund would be negative GI. Well, it so happened that the amount of my refund request (1980’s) was way more than that Midwest org. made in a given week. Who knows, it may have taken them more than a month to make that money back. I ended up taking books instead. Later, I donated the books back to said org.
I just realized I have several thousand dollars on account for both the Manor hotel and the Fort Harrison hotel. I paid in advance because I was pressured to, but this money cannot be considered “religious donations” or “charitable contributions” as the money is on account for a hotel room, nothing else. I’m just wondering if the current “church” would try to wiggle their way out of that one or if they would pay me back.
More than likley
I am an italian ex scientologist. This is my personal story on italian online magazine http://www.lettera43.it/esclusive/pier-paolo-caselli-io-rovinato-da-scientology_43675165369.htm
I’d like to contact Davide Succi because I have the same situation about my refund, so I think that together we can do something about it.
My e-mail is venit39@yahoo.it
Sorry for my english.
Thank you.
Pier Paolo Caselli
Wow I am glad this is being made news in other countries. I must admit when I was still in there where videos of how well Italy was doing and all the expansion in Milan. And from that Artie we can definitely see it is false how well Scientology is doing.
I did refer to HCOPL 29 Sep 1982 “Misinterpretion of Dianetics and Scientology” (KSW 30) .. I know the church claims always that it was my fault, but it is not said so in this policy .. if I were really PTS or SP or would commit continuous overts .. the church has no permission to deliver me service .. if the church founds out that that is the case they have anyway to refund and repay me anything I gave .. because they flunked themselve and they have not to blame me .. they simply did not know the tech .. and did run on a bad misinterpretion of standard tech .. I wanted to say that ..
per LRH prepayments must be done on a separate account .. it is not yet earned money for him .. when I was in UK they have paid VAT and FSM commission instandly, so they gave away already 29% .. and so it was counted as income .. it is not allowed by LRH to do it this way .. the result has to be a happy and successful preclear or student .. if not, the money is not earned really .. as said “we deliver what we have promised” .. this is an order from the old man, not a joke .. should be this way ..
As said from someone in this thread .. we should group together and force on promises, one of it is to get the money back if not satisfied with the service .. simply because it is then not scientology delivered ..
Today’s Editorial in the Sacramento Bee – http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article25368613.html
That’s odd. Because when I told Cara she had 24 hours to return my unused payments at Flag to me or I would take legal action for the deliberate attempt to mislead me as regards to my statutory rights, she capitulated and Fedexed a check to me for the full amount – from Clearwater to the UK within the stipulated time-frame. Why would she do that I wonder? Well big part of the reason was that I sent a copy of that letter to Mr. Domingo’s personal lawyer. How loud the lion roars when he thinks he has the upper-hand and how quickly he capitulates when he realises he’s out-smarted and out-gunned.
Thanks for all the references. Something else for the “on the fence” types to read.
Scientology is like dropping your child off at a kindergarten and having the local drug pusher in the school lobby laughing at you and giving you the finger at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qje0UuM8-OU
Mr Rinder, can we not rename David Miscaviage to “The Ungrand Nagus”, he was a small hidious creature who could not be trusted and was always out to cheat, steal and creep his way into power and profit.
Seems perfect to me?
I discovered Scientology throught my partner a little over a year I started Bridge in Indy area. Before that, I knew nothing about Scientology for which I am speaking from a point of view outside. Last year I shuddered when I heard for the first time of disconnection in a television interview with Renata and Claudio Lugli. In addition to the pain experienced in listening to those testimonies I wondered how it was humanly possible to allow such cruelty by an institution that calls itself “religious”. For me, a religion must encourage people to develop what are the virtues of great expression like honesty, love, ethics, union, brotherhood and so on. So I wonder how the leaders of your Church express this?
With regard to the cycle of the current post, it is not so neither ethical nor honest by the Church of Scientology refuse to return the money received without having offered any services in return. If today I am interested in the technology of Scientology it is because I have received objective information about it and know to distinguish the good from the bad. The behavior of this Church can not be shared and people outside, are not as stupid as the Church think.
Flower60
The Garcia win has increased their haughtiness by 47x!
While I empathize with Mr. Succi, and while the actions of the cherch are repugnant, I can’t help but think this type of behavior is going to bite them in the ass.
The cherch has never been able to see into the future more than a few weeks. They are hopelessly neurotic and, at times, psychotic; trapped in the Thursday at 2:00 hell. So, really they are incapable of predicting the consequences of their actions (immoral and criminal as they are).
They are developing a nice paper trail of these Catch-22 style “refund” cycles. All it takes is one of these to go before a jury or a sane judge and they are toast.
I say let them dig their own graves.
Hi statpush,Well you know I agree with you.Is it just me or is there a change in the wind here with postings about how the Tech is really good at heart & we just need to give it time to grow? I’m all for free expression so let it flow but watch out for the rocks underneath the water they are sharp & can cut.Always Ann B.
Hi Espiando,My I pad has been taken over by robots! I did not mean an X in your name! Ann B.
Hi Valerie,My IPad has a keyboard lurker today.I meant X Mother In Law.Ann B.
Hi Valerie,I am very sorry for the loss of your mother in law.A brain tumor is extremely tough to go through.I wish her peace.I agree with your strong hunch that she is probably still counted on the list of people trying to get towards 10,000 on NOTS.When a family or friend sent me a letter about a suicide either by gun, drugs or car or motorcycle crash & that person had done one course or bought a book some were,all the way to clear & beyond,the letter was always counted as a letter in for my stats that week.When I protested that a body had been dropped, that wording looks so condescending to me now, well you guessed it off to Ethics I would go like my superior would say,” get over there as if I had shot you out of a cannon!” Very cute of her! Always Ann B.
All Scientology training and processing is given for free these days. After all, it would not be right to block a good Scientologist from moving up The Bridge to Total Freedom(tm) if they didn’t have any money! Scientology is not just for rich people – it is for everybody who merits it. And the people who merit it will be working practitioners of the Principle of Exchange whereby you cannot expect to receive something in return for not giving something. So there is the “opportunity” to demonstrate a working knowledge of this Principle of Exchange in the form of their parishioners donating money to the Church in the “hope” of future in-exchange spiritual rewards. So they give this money as a donation of their own free will and there is no obligation for the Church to give it back (unless you mistakenly have surmised that this Principle of Exchange operates in both directions).
The Church DOES give refunds but only to those who do not ask for them. Trouble is, they have difficulty working out who these people are, due to lack of obvious indicators.
I also think that registering a complaint with both embassies and the Italian government might be helpful. Coming into a foreign country and obtaining money from its citizens on account for “church services” abroad that are never rendered should be noted. While I understand the difficulties of fighting Co$, I hope Mr. Succi does not go quietly into the night.
In 1985, my OTVII ex-mother in law sued the COS for her money at Bellevue Mission that her sons had stolen from her and got it back. She was declared, and glad to be so. She died of a brain tumor.
I say this because it is my strong hunch she is probably still one of the ones counted on the list of those people who they are trying to get towards the 10,000 on NOTS or above.
Convoluted SCN statistics at their best.
Valerie, I’m so very sorry for your loss. However, your mother sounds like she had her shit together regarding the cult. I admire her.
Mom, may you travel well…
Hi OSD,You are my brother,when I depart please be with me to bid farewell.Always Ann B.
It was her ex husbands mother, not that she should travel any less well of course!
OSD, she was my ex-mother in law, my mother had actually died years earlier (hmmm I’m hard on moms) but even though my husband and I were divorced I attended the funeral and sat with the family. I did truly love her.
One of the last conversations I had with her I asked her how she felt about scientology. In her ever gracious manner, she said, “oh my, I’ve outgrown that”.
i stand corrected, Valerie! Old age. Bad eyesight. Senior moments. My apologies.
Hi OSD,I’ll let you know how my cataract surgery goes in Sept.Just think if I had stayed in SO I would literally be blind by 70 & riddled with cancer.Scary!Always Ann B.
Hello to all, in Italy there is only one way to define the policy that is applying this Church and is … MAFIA. Indeed, perhaps the Mafia gives you something in return for your money, the Cof $ nothing. To answer some of your doubts … because I paid in advance? Well, I was planning to go to Flag and fortunately I decided to wait … until I discovered the bitter truth about the Church. Maybe I should have waited to declare independent and ask the money back first, at least I would have been declared for a valid reason. I will survive even without the money … maybe not the Church.
I thank Mike for all the work being done in the name of truth. I thank all of you for the courage you show and the support. I wish you all the best things.
Davide Succi (Indy 219 list) from Italy which is not only the country of the Mafia, but the sun, the sea, good food, beautiful girls and other pleasant things.
see you soon
Davide, I want you to know that I had no doubts about you paying in advance for your Welcome Package, and wanted to explain to Hadley how things work in the church. I was stung and burned by the CoS in several reg cycles and then I learned to be very careful in dealing with them. That was what I wanted to communicate to the other people here, and did not mean to evaluate your situation. Of course things can happen to postpone a trip to Flag, especially from a foreign country!
I’m glad you found out about the bitter truth about the church and spared yourself the trip to Flag. It was for the best, even though you may have lost some money. Losing money is not as important as your life is, or your personal happiness and freedom. I wish you the very best and a happy summer.
Hi
219 David Succi, Scn since 1996, Grade IV, HDA Auditor, Patron with Honors, aka “Spartacus”
from
285 Robert Almblad, HDC, Class II, Solo auditor, OEC 1974, one of first 15 NOTS completions at Flag in 1979, New OT V completion 2005 at Flag, worked for LRH 1972-1973 Apollo –
anyone can sign up at
http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/the-indie-500.html
Also, from the same PL that you quoted, paragraphs of some of the more sane views expressed in policy – policy that, were it to be applied, would handle a good deal of org management problems:
“The more thetan you have present, the less policy you need and the better things run. Only a thetan can handle a post or a pc. All he needs is the know-how of minds as contained in Scientology. That was all he ever lacked. So, given that, sheer policy is poor stuff, as it seeks to make a datum stand where a being should be. That’s the whole story of the GPMs. So why not have live orgs?
“Policy is only vital where agreement must exist between two or more thetans working together. Beyond that it fails.
“A needful policy is ‘We’ll start work on time’ since without it the org goes ragged. A useless policy would be ‘The Registrar must always smile at an applicant’ for that puts a datum where a person should be.
“So there are two kinds of policies — those needed to obtain work-together ease and those which seek to put a datum instead of a being in a position. The less you have of the latter the better things will get. The more reasonable the former, the more work will be done.
“A refund policy is an agreement-type policy. Needful. But it must be very mild indeed or it will stand in lieu of good service.”
(It’s a pity that these views are almost never put in effect. Instead, management and programs demand a strict adherence to arbitrary orders that never encourage administrative staff take real responsibility or initiative and think for themselves…)
To The Modern Scientologist: enforce policy of uniform bait and switch, at all levels from the top of the Bridge down to the front doors. And to Hell with the cognitive dissonance, which is a wog notion, anyway. Do this and maintain secrecy, the Church will back you up for so long as the Church’s apparent reputation is not besmirched.
If you are an honest and ethical human being, please refrain from holding executive positions within the Church. Such people cannot belong to the most ethical and honest organization on the planet with out harm to themselves.
Hi James Morris, Good to meet you.I could relate to your post! Especially the last three lines.The reputation of the cos is protected @ all costs including deaths of great suspicious circumstances.When I signed that billion year contract many years ago,there needed to be another paragraph.By the way you are now a SO slave & along with your total allegiance & compliance to Ron & the Golden Tech, any & do we mean any criticism or the slightest refusal to do exactly what you are told to uphold our reputation will be met with beatings starvation harassment meanness & don’t you dare have any dental situations or get so much as a fever or you will be very sorry.You are SO now all the wog world is gone you are ours for Infinity & don’t you ever forget it or bsckflash me under your breath,I’m OT & so can read your mind like an open book!Am I ever glad I blew!Best decision I ever made just not soon enough.Thank you.Ann B.
From Cara’s letter: “There is no law in the United States of America that requires that a religious organization return contributions that it receives”
There is a whole lot of wrong there.
First, religious organizations ordinarily do not collect “advance fees” for services. Calling them “contributions” is wrong. IAS/Idle Org donations, are another matter.
Second, in the United States of America, you can be required by law to return advance fees/deposits. Keeping funds where promised services are not delivered is something in the USA we also call FRAUD.
Of course, as Mike rightly points out, if someone sues them under the law and in court, this “religious organization” claims the court’s have no jurisdiction over these internal religious disputes.
Outrageous. Someday, a court will finally pierce through this fraud scheme and put an end to this. That day cannot come too soon.
Hi Lurkness,Good to meet you. That day cannot come too soon for me either!Thank you Ann B.
Contact the IRS and lawyer up. They promised to give refunds and repayments as part of the 1993 exemption agreement, per the policies referenced above.
I love the wording “advance religious contributions”…the use of the word “advance” really implies a prepayment for expected services, no one donates/contributes to a church “in advance”, but that use of “contributions” suggests that this was essentially a gift, an offering, something that wouldn’t be refundable, I mean, who gives a gift to their church and then asks for it back?…as a never-in, it’s just mind boggling to see the shit they pull!! What passes for logic in CoS is truly bizarre!!
Hi Brian, Again a post that says it all.I am finding there are bloggers on this site & other very good sites like Tony’s which I visit from time to time for article & info on books posts but get overwhelmed by the volume of postings, there are bloggers who will rip into David Miscavige at any time,but feel Ron & his Tech are good for the planet.before I really really looked at what I had purposely occluded about Ron because I did not want to face how badly I was taken for a sucker,I did some of that mind think too.But no more it is amazing how much more I can remember about SO days & ways since I got Ron completely out of my system.I no longer reply to those who glorify Ron & The Tech.Espiandro is very good at his posts to them.I cannot make those who do not want to see the big picture see it.I need to take care of myself & all my friends & loved ones at this blog.Always Ann.
How hard can it be, as minimal it might be in helping to reduce the upset, to finish with “I’m very sorry this is not the response you were hoping for.” Just something resembling even the teeniest, tiniest amount of compassion for a fellow human being.
But no. This is the €hurch of $ci£ntolog¥.
“The following is the Church of Scientology’s refund policy as stated to the US Internal Revenue Service as part of Form 1023 filing during negotiations for tax-exempt status.”
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/17.htm
This reference helped me when I was seeking a refund, which I did get but that was over 5 years ago. I also threatened legal action if there was a problem.
Penny, thank you for the information and the web sites and great that you got your money back. Have you ever considered giving a talk at the Freezone convention or any other convention of Ex Scns or Indies about the things you did to get your money back, kind of as a hatting for others?
Cindy, I honestly do not consider myself an opinion leader on this subject and as noted, this was over 5 years ago. I also called the AOLA (location of the repayment I was seeking) every single day. On this, I had no reservation as the last auditing I had at the AO was worse than you can imagine. Wrong indications, taking up unreading items, missing fn’s. I will spare you the pain:) Let’s just say,when I decided to go online and read, that’s when everything changed.
Hi Penny. XXOO
Hi Oracle,
Back at ya. Read many of your posts and enjoyed!
I forgot that part OSD…..I got this weird picture of the biggest little prick….not pretty.
My last comment was a reply to OSD above.
You know, Potpie, this is now the Cult of Hate. Pure and simple.
The irony of this is that, if Miscavige would stop being the world’s worst and most incompetent religious leader or Chairman of the Board, he might realize that if we actually put his time and energy into upholding the refund policy rather than figuring out elaborate ways to not uphold it, the overall income and financial health of his failing churches would most likely improve. The idiot still hasn’t figured out that he is the one totally screwing things up, not all the SPs he’s surrounded by and bitter defrocked apostates. What a fool. What a tool. If I devoted one hour a day to running the Church I could do a far better job than this dick head (not that I would want to do it, though).
Davide Succi should go meet the Godfather
and explain his situation with Flag Land Base.
Mr. Succi should agree to any favors the Godfather wishes
so that the Godfather will make Flag an Offer they cannot refuse.
Mr. Succi will get his money back without delay or further difficulties.
Doesn’t this also violate the IRS agreement about refunds?
Of course, it does, Tia. As have all the other violations of the IRS agreement, any and all to be ignored by the IRS and never spoken of. Isn’t that simple?
It makes me sick to my stomach! How the hell can the IRS let this situation continue?? It’s OBVIOUSLY an enterprise! A money grubbing enterprise! Hey IRS, grow a pair…
Hi thegman77,I really agree with your post.As I wrote here some time back The IRS sent me an invitation to join two agents at the Fed Building in Boston MA after I was out of the SO to discuss checks I had been pulled off post to sign all night because I had good handwriting.I was still very screwed up by my SO leaving & GOI trips.They could not have been more cold if they tried,wore their sun glasses the whole time,phrased their questions as if I was in kindergarten & generally implied that they would rather be elsewhere.They got up after a most uncomfortable hour & threw $200.00 cash at me as they walked out.And this was years before the cos got cozy tax exempt status! So yes that is one agency I am cynical about along with those lawyers…Always Ann B.
As I have said before it is pointless cursing and wailing about this lot as the current system from the COS has nothing to do with Dianetics and Scientology.
I think the runt of the litter who runs the place is a Star Trek buff as he seems to apply the Ferengi Laws of Acquisition.
Rule 1 “Once you Get Their money, You Never Give It Back”
Real Scientology is as quoted in red, but then thats LRH and as usual, is common sense, obvious and to the point.
nuff said
Nothing L. Fraud Flunk-Out said was common or made sense. And if the Toxic Dwarf is a Ferengi, L. Fraud was the Grand Magus.
My apologies. Of course, I meant “Grand Nagus”, but considering L. Fraud’s connection to Crowley, “magus” could be appropriate as well.
Hi Expiando,How about the Great & Glorious Grand Nagus Magus Hypnotizeus Take all Your Moneyous & Break Your Heartus.You got me going here…Always Ann B.
Typo Error should read Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.”
Been some time since I watched the best show DS9!
Correct Rhinoplast. Red on white is common sense, obvious and to the point. How else would we all be here on this blog? We didn’t get sucked into Scientology with the senseless drivel provided by DM and his Sherman speak… How many new people join Scientology because of Miscavige? Zero. How many leave because of him? Droves.
Unwinding Miscavige-Scientology from your life is no easy task. You have to wade through so much bullshit it’s hard to tell where it comes from, but at least now you/we have a chance to uncover the truth. I believe DM is pure bullshit and not worth analysis.
Because stalking COB’s daddy costs 10K a week. The money was already spent. The “Justice Chief” operates with omitted data and is made to look like an ass by COB. He makes all of the staff look like asses by keeping them in the dark. Then sends them to the RPF if they don’t jump up in respect and admiration when he enters the room. They pay a P.I. 10K a week to be a sneaky little spy but won’t return the money to a Scientologist they delivered NOTHING to. Declare Tom Cruise who has not made one clear the most valuable. If you don’t agree to NOT KNOW how to KNOW you aren’t even qualified for staff. David Miscavige is the former Simon Magus. For one million he will confer the holy spirit.
simony
[sahy-muh-nee, sim-uh-]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun
1.
the making of profit out of sacred things.
2.
the sin of buying or selling ecclesiastical preferments, benefices, etc.
noun
1.
(Christianity) the practice, now usually regarded as a sin, of buying or selling spiritual or Church benefits such as pardons, relics, etc, or preferments.
Word Origin
C13: from Old French simonie, from Late Latin sīmōnia, from the name of Simon Magus.
Word Origin and History for simony Expand
n.
c.1200, “the sin of buying or selling sacred things,” from Old French simonie “selling of church offices” (12c.), from Late Latin simonia, from Simon Magus, the Samaritan magician who was rebuked by Peter when he tried to buy the power of conferring the Holy Spirit (Acts viii:18-20). Related: Simoniac ; simoniacal.
I did not know that “simony” was a word, thanks. It describes the material greed of CofS perfectly. One of the reasons they were able to entrap me (and one of the big differences between me and a DM) is that to me, spiritual advancement and helping people is of greater concern than material wealth, whereas in CofS acquiring wealth for DM is FAR more important than people.
Hi Gene Trujillo,Good to meet you.A heartfelt post & imagine the boiling water I got into as a SO member when I suggested that since all the courses & books by Ron & auditing & OT Levels were so spectacular why couldn’t they be offered free of charge.You never saw knives come out faster! Of course I was very in & On Source in those days & Ann I must say stupid to think no one would get very upset with me.With age does come wisdom…so glad to be out.Thank You Ann B.
And one more thing…….a “Fully Paid….No” “Quantity…..3” is a “religious contribution”? When a “contribution” is considered not “fully paid”, it gives one a sense of extortion. It would be better to call it payment for a service, and to repay the few people asking for repayment (of their own money), especially since they are booming (is it 47x or 64x – I forget).
In which a fool and his money are soon parted or “How Cara Golashesky held her position in outer-space”.
Mr. Succi, for a mere twelve grand, was granted the highest known status in scientology: SP. It garners more respect than any other status and it confers real, quantifiable case gain in the form of permanent freedom from the Hungry Dead. Hip hip hooray for Mr. Succi!
Poor Cara, however…well, she’s doing what she must, to those she must, in order that she may feed. They must feed constantly you know and their hunger is never quelled. Such is the curse of the Hungry Dead.
Thank you for this gold, Mike. This guy pays for a service, does not get serviced, gets thrown out, and they say they are not required by law to pay him back. Interesting. “Rip off exchange” gets them ……where? And then the procedures to get a repayment are not available to him because he has been declared. And they put this in writing. So the “most ethical people on the planet” take their cue from the alleged absence of laws that require them to act, well……ethically.
Exactly, Wendy. So the church when dealing with a parishioner and should be applying internal policies, now quotes “law.” And when in a court of law and should be dealing in law, now quotes that only “internal policies” can be used to handle. Funny how they switch sides continually according to what they think will give them an advantage. Very hypocritical and speaking out of both sides of David Miscavige’s mouth (even though only one side of it moves when he speaks.)
I thin k his asshole works the same way. Can’t really tell them apart except he has a thong over one of them.
Well well well…..I was wondering when this day would come. I hope every Scientologist Under The Radar reads your blog Mike. THIS IS PROOF that their “church” has gone off the rails. It’s an open betrayal of the trust to stay in alignment with the writings of Hubbard.
Apparently Captain David Miscavige has been so effectively exposed in the media for his crimes against Scientology that he has dropped all pretenses of being a Scientologist. Proof that the Church of Scientology has been taken over by a SQUIRREL GROUP. When you cannot “leave the game” and you cannot “withdraw” you are connected to a suppressive. The Church of Scientology has openly and knowingly LIED to it’s members and then makes it a crime to protest having become a victim of their misdeeds and misrepresentations. I hope the IRS is paying attention.
Well said Doug… spot on.
With cases such as this it’s only a matter of time before someone “goes postal” at one of their “churches”…
I commented a couple days ago that David Miscavige is a rude little prick. This letter is yet another indication of that. Cara it is obvious you are parroting David Miscavige to the letter.
Person asks for money back, gets immediate declare, no policy stated, can’t go through the CVB routing form now that he is declared. That is diabolical David Miscavige, you surely are a rude, ruthless little prick.
He’s one of THE biggest, little pricks in the universe…
Command Intention has always superseded policy – and we all know what David Let Him Die Miscavige’s intentions are, i.e. I am entitled to everything, you are entitled to nothing. Whether you are public or Sea Org staff, wife, or even a father, same intention applies. God that man must be a miserable, lonely son of a bitch.
Criminal exchange galore!!!!!
This is even a repayment not s refund!!!!
Pleaaaaseeeeee
L Ron who?
+1!!! Yep, all the clams have kissed his ass and now KNOW that he is source. I can just hear them saying, “You know, LRH was ok, but, COB IS Scientology. He actually saved Scientology! He even found all the mistakes in LRH’s books and corrected them! If it wasn’t for COB, who’s know what would have happened! Thank goodness for COB! Our savior!”
Puke…
Daily it’s becoming more and more the Church of Miscavige. I’ll bet he just can’t wait for all those pesky LRH lovers to be gone so he can violate policy until his heart is content and no one will notice because they’re too busy kneeling at their COB Alters that will become required materials for every CoM (Church of Miscavige) members home.
A Federal indictment for that clown can’t come soon enough. Drinks are on me that day. 🙂
Hi NOLAGirl, I’m sure your celebration party will be outstanding! Make my drink a zin red,please no Scotch for me ! Always Ann B.
Mary, I’m surprised that it’s not the Miscavige Purif. The Miscavige Student Hat &, of course, the Miscavige SRD. The history books will not be kind to this vicious cult and the psychotic dwarf.
Ann, I would be happy to keep your glass full. xoxo 🙂
Hi NOLAGirl, Thank you for keeping my glass filled.After all I & my body have been through a little vino does me good.I really enjoy your posts so much. You are a ray of sunshine for me also.I thank you from my heart.Ann B.
This situation poses another dilemma, if they write answering the parishioner’s letters or the declare/disconnection orders, then these get posted on the fringes of the Internet; on the other hand, if they choose not to answer then, little by little they will be more imploded, desperate and eventually they will start getting at each other. Karma baby.
As sickening as this is doesn’t it provide clear written evidence in support of the Garcia case? They were told that they could not get their money back through the court and should follow scn justice procedures but this clearly states that if you are declared then there is absolutely no recourse what ever.
Clearly there are several issues here. The first is whether or not you are asking for a refund for services rendered and received. The second is when you are asking for a return of funds placed on account for a service but not delivered or received. The last, such as the Garcia case, involves asking for a return of a donation given which was not for a service, just a straight donation.
Newcomer,
Per Ginny Leason, Director Office of Spcecial Affairsm all money a person puts on account for themselves is just a straight donation. She likened money one puts on account for their own services to money one puts in an offering plate being passed.
Yep, I think Mike ought to post Ginny’s rants.
-Ann A-
My thoughts exactly, Gimpy, along with the thought that “someone” will be sending this to the IRS…
If it is as Ginny Leason, Director Office of Special Affairs says, that any money paid on account in advance (an “AP payment”) toward a specific service is nothing more than a donation like passing the collection plate at church, then that means that you could never arrive for the service you’d been paying toward for years. So let’s say you were making AP payments toward your NOTS auditing for years and finally got enough to start with 2 intensives of auditing. You arrive ready to pick up the cans and are told, “oh no, that was just a donation and we can do whatever we want with it, and as such we are not required to refund it to you.” So by Ginny’s argument, all semblance of exchange goes out the window. It just becomes “give us your money” with no thought of what service you’ll get in return. But since that is not how it works at this time, Ginny’s argument doesn’t hold water.
Good point Gimpy! This letter dated 12 June 2015 (i.e post Garcia judgment) makes absolutely no offer to refer the request to internal arbitration procedures……because there is no such thing! There is no recourse at all according to this letter.
Yes and thats frankly complete betrayel and injustice beyond beleif.Almost if I may say to the point of listed as Frankly theft
Technically this is a case of “repayment” of unused funds on account, not a “refund” for services already taken. Should be much easier. Was that bad for me getting the repayment in ’08. At local org had to go through routing form but refused the session required on the form. Still, ultimately got the $$$ back. Then I went after the money on account at Flag. Sent a letter threatening legal action. Everything done by mail w/o seeing a routing form. Folks on ESMB were immensely helpful in what steps to take.
I guess now there is much more desperation within Scn. to hold onto their money.
You hit the nail on the head. The way to get the money back is to threaten a law suit and/or threaten going to the press. Do it!
This is blatant, naked theft.
He should try to get as much media attention as possible about this crime in Italy.
Unfortunately the legal system over there is rather corrupt or he could try suing the local orgs.
First of All I would ask How on earth did a person just hand over money to the Church of Scientology willy nilly without being intodoctrinated to what he is paying and for what .Second question is : If true and he has or taken a services at all under what arrangment and How sold ? Third / I’d challenge How on earth can one just hand over money without some sort of knowing where it is going and the agreement to know theirs No return in doing so . Last question How can he be declared without having taken Any services ? To me some questions need answering .The guy is nuts to have handed over money willy nilly/ or sold to contribute under what conditions ? Theirs two sides to each story and this one does not make any sense at all.
Seriously?
You are actually asking these questions and calling the guy that “handed over money” nuts?
Based on this, the only one I would call nuts is you….
Hadley, I don’t know if you have ever been in Scientology. If you have, then you would probably have a lot more insight into how people are regged for services and make payment in advance for them. It’s actually a common thing to do in Scientology. You’re dealing with the most ethical people in the world who are saving the planet. As a Scientologist, you believe them, you believe in the cause and you want to ‘Move Up The Bridge.’
One thing I learned as a Scientologist down the road a bit, was to wait and not buy services until I was ready to do them. I never had money to burn, so when it came time for me to do something major and I was ready for it, I would buy it then. There are all sorts of gimmicks to get you to pay in advance, like ‘packages’ at a reduced price, etc. As you see above, Mr Succi bought a “Flag Welcome Package.” This was carefully described to him at the time of sale. Mr Succi didn’t give his money “willy-nilly” and believed that when he was ready to go to Flag for services, they were already paid and waiting for him. He also believed that by buying the ‘Welcome Package’ he was getting some sort of deal and a better price for his services. Finally, the policy does exist to return money for services never used, and he may have been counting on people to keep their word if he could never arrive at Flag to do the services.
I learned to not be completely trusting when it came to buying anything from the church, and to do what was right for me financially at the time. I would always wait and purchase when I was ready to actually start the service that given week.
I paid the day I was to begin any service, never anything “on account”.
Obviously you know NOTHING about the Church of Scientology or how it operates.
+1! Absolutely nothing!
Even the most intelligent people can be naive, trusting, misled, or gullible. Scientology knows how to persuade newbies that it can solve all of life’s troubles. The victim in this case was lured, and then trapped, by Scientologists trained in how to manipulate his fears, hopes, and dreams.
And the Kafkaesque nature of trying to get a refund! You must first do step “a” but you cannot do step “a” because you want a refund and are therefore suppressive. Therefore you cannot get a refund because you want a refund.
This is “justice” from the most ethical group on the planet?!$%#
It’s ‘Catch 22’ all over again.
welcome to scientology Hadley.
no former member or long time watcher would write what you did. if you keep reading and watching what’s out there you’ll come to understand why.
Scientology is fast becoming a Black Hole.
Becoming a Black Hole??? Hell, this cult is THE ultimate Black Hole!
Yep…It’s all black, from the COB to the RTC on down to the smallest cinder of a staff member. The light at the end of that tunnel has been snuffed out.
You are exactly right, OSD, and THE lesson EVERYONE should know about this church (or black holes) is if you get to close, the gravitational pull will suck you in and destroy you. Then you will be left with “no one else to blame but yourself” and that is the hardest part about it.
This church has it wired legally, religiously and systematically. If you get too close, YOU will turn against YOU.
STAY AWAY!!!!
Nice post, Mary! Well done. Your analogy is quite correct: …”the gravitational pull will suck you in and destroy you.” Truer words were NEVER spoken.
And, Coop, that light at the end of the tunnel is actually a cult sponsored train that’s barreling towards you to finish you off…
Mike, I tried to reply to you but there was no “reply” button, so I am replying to a different poster. I get your point that it takes money and time and effort to sue. My suggestion is why don’t we do what the church did and start our own Indie or Ex-Scn “War Chest” of donations to fund lawsuits that look like they have a chance of being won? I would personally donate to that and I hope others would too. We all gave tons of money to the church, so now to help our cause, why don’t we give just a fraction of the money we gave the church to fund crucial lawsuits? When I saw how fast about $40,000 was donated to the Headleys when they needed it for their lawsuit against the church, I realize it can be done. I was so glad to see that the Headleys did get the necessary money needed (and I contributed to that with my own donation). The point is that the ex Scn or Indie world did pull together for the Headley’s lawsuit. So we can do it again.
Take what you can. Give nothing back.
“Legalized” robbery
The Mafia would be proud…
In the letter, Cara says, “due to your current standing with the church…” referring to his being declared an SP… my question is what was the reason they gave for declaring him? Sounds like he didn’t read and talk about the internet stuff on Scn, and he did no crimes or high crimes, but only asked for money back. The policy is clear: you don’t declare someone just for asking for their money back. But apparently now in the squirrelled Church of Scn , David “let him die” Miscavige has changed the policy to be that anyone who asks for money back is automatically declared.
Of note is the fact that on FB a week or so ago, I saw a posting by someone who actually did get their money back. I’d like to know why they got it and this guy didn’t? It was $30,000. My guess is that the latter got his money back because he threatened a lawsuit. And Carisa Marion some years back got her money back by threatening legal. Mike, please tell this guy to sue their pants off. He’ll either get his money back or make them have to appear in court and maybe the IRS will take note and take their tax exempt status away.
Cindy — have you been following the Garcia lawsuit? “Suing their pants off” requires a few things. A lawyer, money and the willingness to devote your time and energy. It’s simple to say “sue” and it is commonly advised by people who have never done so. Reality check….
Hi Mike, Thank you for your post regarding suits against cos.My thoughts exactly.Personally I do not care to walk any road with lawyers, my much younger brother is one & likes to tell how he & opposing lawyers in court go out for drinks together after a long week @ court & toast to the fact that they are in the same fraternity of lawyer brothers & sisters.Again $ $ talks and the Earth spins on…Always Ann.
Cindy,
In reply to your “sue their pants off”…You ought to see how Ginny Leason, Director of Special Affairs Phoenix Org ran around like a raped ape in her Motion to Dismiss she sent me a couple of days ago, Gosh! It is a Small Claims Court Action for $2,510.
BTW: It was not filed with the court, nor has she filed a response to my filing Default yet. I think we ought to have some fun with this and post Ginny’s brilliant rants…after all, Phoenix is the birth place of Scientology and the Org is just doing sooo well! @yahoo.com
-Ann A-
Again, Ron is right. Suppression is something, about which, one feels he can do nothing.
David “Let Him Die” Miscavige knows how to suppress, completely. He has studied all of the materials and has made sure that he is the biggest, baddest SP on the planet.
Proud of that, are you, little one? I can see you grinning over there.
Don’t worry. We know who you are and we know what you’re doing.
It’s only a matter of time. Tick Tock.
Well Mike, that is a nice sentiment from Ron. But in 1982 I got the routing form run around for my refund.
I never got my money back until I threatened to go to the press.
Yet another lie. At least in my case it was a lie. I was treated as an SP.
Only threats to blacken PR worked
Cara Golashesky is probably on the RPF now, not because she violated policy but because her letter was published here and created massive black PR for Der Leader. Black PR cuts across income lines so avoiding it is senior to all policy.
I doubt it. You forgot the Golden Rule of scientology.
Miscavige is no doubt pleased with her — she is not wavering and is presenting a tough face “you get NOTHING”.
He isn’t embarrassed in the slightest by this reputation. He is happy.
This makes my blood boil. It is so flagrantly against LRH policy. I remember I personally saw a refund cycle in the 80’s. They wanted their money back so they got it and they were happy not to do anymore services and left. The Chaplain was happy to give them their money as it was per policy. But now. Ha! I hope this person sues them. Since he never received services and never signed any of the lawyered-up contracts, they have no way to enforce that on him. And in court they can site the LRH policy to the judge. Please do sue!
By the way is Cara’s maiden name Cara Lake? Anyone know?
DAVID “LET HIM DIE” MISCAVIGE would have been welcomed in the Third Reich.
I got my money on account back from my local org about 4 1/2 years ago, no problem. The org was still being admined by some old-school people. Flag did half-heartedly try to talk me out of asking for the money and tried to push the new “no refund/return of money EVER” policies on me, but in the end it was up to the org.
iamvalkov,
What Org was that?
Plus the Exchange policy also enters in on another
level. My take on it is that you keep your customers
(potential or not) very happy with your company.
That’s of course if you want to expand and grow.
REFUNDS are a dirty word in Scientology and it is a mortal sin to ask for one….punishable by “taking away your spiritual freedom” and asking your friends and family to disconnect from you.
The contracts presented to you for your signature (due to the Psychs sending in fucked up people that go crazy and then sue – I was actually told that was the reason for the contracts) as they are “stealing” your money covertly while you “think” you are putting money on account for future services, are loaded with 60 years of slick and sleezy lawyer-ing.
That alone should be enough for the United States Government to yank their tax exempt status and shut them down.
Scientology is a complete Criminal Organization stealing people’s money and time in exchange for lies and betrayal.
Scientology hides behind the religious cloak committing crimes daily and the US Government turns their eyes away from their the criminal behavior. Meanwhile, people like Martha Stewart go to jail for “insider trading”.
God help us if Scientology’s justice system ever takes over the world. Can you imagine? You get a defective car and you are not allowed a refund nor any fair exchange. You are sent to the MAA at Flag and your spiritual freedom is at stake. You have to donate $50,000 to the IAS or else….. Or – You buy a gift and when you take it back to Bloomingdale’s because it did not fit – your friends and family disconnect from you on FB.
If Scientology took over the World we would have a World filled with criminals and insanity. The exact opposite of what they promise. Same as the US Government – a bunch of lying criminals living a lavish lifestyle and hiding behind – we are too big to know what we are actually doing to those DB’s – the people they are suppose to serve and protect.
Crazy (Scientology) meet Crazy (US Government)
Imagining a Scientology planet:
No doubt R2-45 would no longer be “frowned upon at this time”. For the greatest good, low toned people would be “disposed of without sorrow.”
All other religions outlawed as implant operations/competition.
RPF gulags established everywhere for thought control reformation (for the greatest good of course)
As Ron said,”one day this could be seen as illegal. By that time make sure orgs are in charge and decide what’s legal” (paraphrased)
A Scientology planet would be an tyrannical hell hole.
You mean like it is today?
Since we all know that David Let Him Die Miscavige is one of the most loyal readers of this blog (hey, if I can read it at work, so can he), I have this strange feeling that Sr. Succi’s money is on his way, probably being hand-delivered in cash from Liechtenstein in a Hermes briefcase. He doesn’t get to keep the briefcase, though.
Hi Espiando,I love this post.My late Dad managed the then Prince of Liechtensteins holdings in the U.S.He was very sure to follow all tax laws to the letter,but said the mentioned country was a haven for crooks with $ to burn.Always Ann B.
In some instances it is not fully neccesary for a parishioner to receive a refund, because for example, money taken from me that was never refunded, I think one of the staff members that got it, kept it from the church, and then spent it on himself to cause a HUGE ARCX between myself the church and others, blew his brains out later, so it was money well worth stealing in my opinion. 🙂
I guess he was trying to get some relief by doing a little self-auditing on R2-45, eh?