This promotional item claims there are 6,600 Sea Org members.
That is the absolute best case scenario — any figures ever put out by scientology are exaggerated, if not completely made up. It’s probably a thousand or more less than that, but we will take them at their word. 1,200,000 people for each SO member to clear is a pretty tall order. Especially as in the entire history of scientology, they have not yet cleared 10% of that number. Yes, in 70 years they aren’t even close to 120,000 clears. They continue to hover around half that number.
There were this many SO members in the 1990’s, so the decades of straight up and vertical expansion Miscavige has been shermanspeaking about for the past 40 years are pure lies.
I am going to take an informed guess as to where the supposed 6600 SO members would be located:
RTC/CST/ASI/Int base (including Gold): 800
Flag (FSO/Estates/CMO etc): 2000
HGB/SMP: 700
PAC Orgs (including AO, ASHO D&F, LA Org, CC Int, Estates): 1000
Bridge/NEP: 150
CLO’s (WUS/EUS/UK/EU/Af/ANZO/CAN/Latam/Italy/CIS): 700
Freewinds: 150
AO’s (UK/ANZO/AF/EU): 700
SO sent to Class V “ideal” Orgs: 400
The incredible bureaucracy of scientology’s cumbersome “management” system means there are likely about the same number, or perhaps more, SO members than Class V and Mission staff — certainly the bulk of all scientology service delivery is now done by the SO manned Orgs. So, add another 6600 org and mission staff. That’s 13,200.
And again, given the extremely high staff to parishioner ratio (in almost every org, at any given time, there are more staff than public, including the FSO).
So, perhaps another 6600 scientologists on line at any given time in all SO, Class V and Missions combined. That now comes to 19,800 active scientologists.
Add three not “on-lines” scientologists for each one that is — these are the people who would say publicly they are scientologists even though not really active. That is another 19,800.
Grand total, 39,800 or somewhat active scientologists on earth who would agree that they are scientologists (not some guy who bought a book in 1977 and never read it but is still in Central Files and counted as a scientologist when its convenient for them).
This figure is based on exceedingly generous math — especially as the starting figure is a number from scientology, who claim variously, millions, 6 million, 10 million or numerous other numbers of scientologists on earth.
My guess is the actual number is about half that.
A friend who blew in 2004 told me he got a 21 year leave – so I assume he is still on their books as a clam?
FMFH, did your friend blow the Sea Org or leave the CofS entirely? I wouldn’t be surprised if they were counting Sea Org members who had left the ranks, as long as they weren’t declared SPs.
H Peacemaker – he blew entirely. But they gave him the 21 years right away, maybe for that moment they thought he just blew the Sea Org. Ant BTW he is doing great.
I’m always amused/appalled at the stupidity and incompetence of the sea org. Yes, they are a wildly successful real estate holding company and a crooked and deceitful “donation” intake enterprise . I’ll give them that. In fact, there’s no one better. Ok, Bernie Madoff stole more.
But as to their mission “to clear the planet”? THEY COULD NOT BE DUMBER.
To wit; to clear the planet, following their idea, you’d have to have tens of millions of auditors, right? Maybe hundreds of millions . So what does the CoS/SO do using their “administrative technology”? They make auditor training more and more expensive (including expensive materials which we didn’t have to pay for fifty years ago when I became an auditor, and when meters were cheap as well) AND to further ensure their non success in “clearing the planet” they got rid of many, MANY excellent auditors with DECADES of experience such as myself and morphed us into “suppressive persons.” *they also stopped training auditors in any numbers even close to the old days, when the planet’s population was half its current total .
A joke … but not a funny one.
I had lots of wins in T&P, but I don’t really care at all how Scn has collapsed, both in repute and achieving any type of freedom for its members. As far as I’m concerned, they are responsible for their own condition. Yeah, I’ve become a real hardass in me old age. (ok, if any are at least smart enough to want to leave, let’s help them.)
But from Ron himself on down, they are some of the stupidest, most incompetent, easily bamboozled people I have seen on this planet, and I’ve lived and worked on many continents for decades. Maybe only the San Francisco Board of Supervisors (known since the 1960s as “stupidvisors”) is worse (local joke, but I don’t live in SF or the USA any more).
* Yes, they are a wildly successful real estate holding company
Actually, no. They are a real estate holding company, but a wildly successful one would be making money on those holdings, not just letting the land values appreciate while the buildings decay. (Even the ones that have gone through the Ideal Org openings don’t take long for a lack of routine maintenance to show.)
For an actual wildly successful real estate holding company, the Mormons do it far better.
Hey Mike! How did you know about me? Except you were a year off, I bought my book (Dianetics) in 1978 and never read it but am still in Central Files (because I still receive propaganda) and I’m sure I’m counted as a scientologist when it’s convenient for them.
I would go further and say with the pandemic and other things in the last two years, they’ve lost more. The total number could be as low as 15 thousand. I’d say it’s at it’s lowest since the 1950’s.
The only good thing about Scientology is not to be involved with it.
Every Ex I’ve ever known, (plenty, apart from 4 hard heads, still carrying cards and broke) openly admit that Scientology management lies with every breath. These figures follow their operating trend – they are lies.
Isn’t it ironic, yet appropriate…that “the most ethical group” on the planet, the one that possesses THE ONLY “TECH” which can save this universe and which is “senior to life itself” , the one that forces its members to dress up in silly costumes and furiously feign “uptone enthusiasm” while being financially raped, the one with the high school drop-out, drunk, lift-wearing sociopath “pope”…can’t even truthfully report how many people are in its super elite, intergalactic theta navy…or find enough slaves, er…unpaid volunteers… to staff its ideally silent morgues…or”clear” Teegeeack after 70 years of e-meter wanking and culty, criminal shenanigans?
Fleet Admiral Pompadour Homunculus! Very well done!
Well Said.
I wonder if they are counting everyone who was in the Sea Org at one time but left, and is currently regular staff or a ‘public’ member – treating them as if they’re just ‘on leave’ (isn’t that how Tommy Davis has been said to be classified), as it were? Or could they even be counting those who are on the infamous supposed 21 year leave, as in deceased (and believed to reincarnate)?
I’ve seen several keen observers’ estimates of Sea Org size that are closer to 3 thousand, and that seems to me to fit better with what we have heard about downsizing at Gold Base, the numbers coming and going that can be observed at Flag, and so on. It also seems to me that active membership can’t be much more than around 10 thousand, figuring that there are fewer than 150 local orgs and we see photos of about 30 to 50 people at their events, accounting for around 5 thousand members, plus a couple thousand more served by AOs and Flag.
There also doesn’t seem to be very clear information about just how many full time staff they really have at local orgs these days. But even if it’s only say 12 to 18 on average, with Sea Org at the advanced orgs on top of that, the overall ratio of workers to “parishioners” is ridiculous — and goes towards explaining why Scientology is so expensive, even if those people aren’t paid much.
Another interesting question is how many members of the sea org can even lay claim subjectively to being “clear”–not that there is such an objectively verifiable thing to begin with. It’s a strange “religion” where many of the “clergy” can’t even claim that they have experienced for themselves what they are supposed to be guiding the flock toward. Or for that matter, that they at least have full factual knowledge of their “religious doctrine.” They’re selling something aggressively, yet they have no clue what it is!
I feel a LITTLE sorry for the tiny tyrant for those times when something or other reminds him how SMALL his fiefdom is. That probably shoots him straight up and vertical out of his whiskey-induced haze.
“fiefdom”? Is that a new name for the Tiny Tyrants Teeny Threadlike Trivial and Trifling Todger?
They count the entire population even though according to their PTS/SP policies, 2% of humanity are suppressive and incapable of case gain. Well, 2% of 7.8 billion happens to be 156 million people, which creates some really fascinating comparisons:
* Last copy of Dianetics claimed that “more than 20 million copies” were sold. They haven’t even sold as many books as there are SPs on the planet, and many of those sales were (1) to the same person, (2) to donate to libraries, who often trashed them, or (3) sitting in that nice display of 50 or so books in each org’s and mission’s bookshelves.
* Highest claims of worldwide Scn were barely past the 10 million mark. At best this is the total number of people who have done anything, even taken a test and walked away, in 70 years. It absolutely is not a currently practicing number.
Lastly, I wonder just how many of the SO number they used for their math were in some kind of negative status – in the Hole, on the RPF, on the RPF’s RPF. (Given their billion year contract, I wouldn’t put it past them to be counting the deceased – who are just a little slow getting back in uniform. In the past they might have also counted the kiddoes, but their anti-breeding program had a side effect of vastly shrinking their guaranteed employee pool.)
***
Oh, not quite related, but also about numbers they don’t share: *Freewinds*, the “cruise” ship that is more in the large yacht realm size-wize, has a passenger capacity of 540. If they were expanding the way they claim and predict, that ship would be far too small. In reality, however, they can’t even get her half-full with people taking courses or attending lectures.
As Scientology is stats-obsesses, isn’t there an actual stat of number of Scientologists? Back from your days in OSA or something more recent?
Hey mike! I live in Portland, Oregon and In 2013 there was some kind of event at the org downtown and there was a speaker that said that our state had all these thousands of Scientologists in it and more and more are joining every day.
I’ve seen no more than 10 people at that building at one time. So I’ve always wondered how many Scientologists actually live in my state.
Kendra, given your hard evidence, I would say the total number is – 10.
I had often wondered what the ratio of Sea Org to regular parishioners is. It seems like most of the people interviewed on the Aftermath or the podcast are ex-Sea Org.
“Yes, in 70 years they aren’t even close to 120,000 clears. They continue to hover around half that number.“
In my book (and Jason Beghe’s book) the number of ‘clears’ is more like ZERO.
But, the cult has collected boat loads of cash for ‘clear’ certificates, bracelets and other various trinkets to validate this make believe state of being. The con rolls on.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Though I “attested” to “clear”, #5875 in 1978, I hardly have been gifted with the superhuman abilities of the “clear”. If anything, I’m a bit less able than I was before choking down Hubbard’s “snake oil”. After 40 years, I’m still peeling away layers of hypnotic trance I subjected myself to in my ignorance.
Are they counting the ones who haven’t gotten their “official letter”…… Or the ones who are in nursing homes or too ill to contribute financially anymore so to COS they’re “useless”….. Then there might be the ones who are deceased that they’ve not counted OUT either……….and the flying under the radar who wish to remain “anonymously OUT” for fear of losing their family connections….
A friend who was Catholic got involved with JW’s…..really into it for many years so very loyal & bragged about being “in service with the Bible in her lap”…………how wonderful it was etc….then a few things happened & she disengaged from JW. By then she’d lost all her family members & friends because JW TOLD HER “they were non believers & not WORTHY of her associating with OUTSIDERS”…..so like COS she gave UP everyone who cared about her.
It took YEARS & numerous calls, letters & eventual VISITS for her to get a WRITTEN CONFIRMATION that she was “declared disassociated”……… Many years later she’s still trying to patch things up with those she tossed aside…sadly many of them are deceased, & she’s heartbroken.
NO RELIGION SHOULD FORCE YOU TO TAKE SIDES & DISENGAGED WITH FAMILY & FRIENDS.
What a sick head spinner these shit shows are.
I’m so sorry for your friend. So much heartache.
Thank You…..sadly she was “enthralled” with it, sucked in…..like other high school friends who got into the Moonies, Children Of God…”The Way”………etc…..FORCED to disengage from family & friends who might KNOCK some SENSE into her ……
As someone once said…..sometimes you pay a little, sometimes you pay alot……sometimes it cost you everything……….
It’s almost impossible to be removed from scientology’s rolls — or be removed from CF/Addresso. In the past few years, I saw a supposed issue detailing how to go about that, but it’s nothing I saw in my assiduous study of Volume II of the OEC in the late ’70s. Whatever I saw must have been a MustSavage original.
Nancy went up to “THE BIG HOUSE” (as I laughingly called it much to her chagrin at the time)……. they REFUSED to let her past the “golden gate”……….NOT funny. She went three or four times with her handwritten LETTER to get herself “disassociated”…..three times she was REFUSED admittance.
It came down to LET ME IN OR I’LL basically either crash the gate or call the Police…they let her in. She “self delivered handed in” her letter…………& that was that after she received a letter from the JW “head cheese” that she was now completely disassociated.
. She went back to the Catholic Church (insert eyeroll) & they welcomed her & her weekly Tithe gladly…..
There is no weekly tithe in the Catholic Church.
The church makes a “SUGGESTION” as to how much of a weekly “donation” her family should make. I had a friend who when she moved to a new area, that when she registered her family they ASKED about their income & they also “suggested” a weekly “contribution/donation” based upon their income. Call it what you like, donation/contribution/tithe.
When the local Catholic HERE built a NEW Church, they sent everyone registered with the church a FORM asking us to sign to a COMMITMENT of a certain amount of $$$ EVERY WEEK in addition to our “regular weekly contribution” . They were COUNTING on the additional amount from the signed commitment to pay off the huge DEBT they incurred to “replace” the older church with a new more MODERN designed one. Because several people refused to sign a Commitment letter…they had to DOWN SIZE the design/construction of the new church. The new Church also CUT DOWN on the number of masses each week as well….figuring they can pack more people in since the church was larger…yet many preferred the OTHER way it had been done for decades as the new less available mass schedules weren’t convenient to everyone.
Thing is the OLDER church was in need of some repairs & was smaller than what they replaced it with. Repairs could have been done & a “wing added” to increase the size of the older church but “THEY” had to have a new more modern larger cathedral type church….the older church was demolished. Despite objections “they” won out.
We did NOT sign the commitment form, as did several others, but more people DID sign it. This caused a rift in the community & many people who objected to be required to sign this form LEFT this Parish.
I also had a friend who was a member of another religious group. They signed a registration form & based upon their income they were TOLD how much they were EXPECTED to donate each week. When she asked “what if something happens & I cannot afford that amount every week”. The head of the church told her “YOU CAN OWE IT TO US”….i.e. make up the SHORT on the weekly donation over time…………seriously WT???
Sounds like they took a few lessons from the local Protestant Bible thumpers. In my brief sojourn in the Catholic Church a few years ago. I was never asked for money beyond passing the collection plate on Sunday.
I am a Protestant and have never been told what I should give. The just pass the plate and no one sees.
Oh, well.
We have a BOX of donation envelops with an ASSIGNED NUMBER on the outside of the box AND each envelope has a number on it as well for weekly donations. Sometimes there is more than ONE envelop in the box for the week end donation………….no collection plate in this church. Too many members & pews to pass around the long handled basket to be dumped into a larger box when the basket is filled to the brim & envelops are falling all over the floor. Mabe they’re worried someone might take some money out of the basket too, who knows.
As I mentioned when my friend’s daughter (my friend also) moved to a bigger city the local church when she asked about registering told her to bring in her Income Tax info so they could “suggest” (basically demand) how much $$$ she should donate weekly. Her son was then Confirmation age so she complied…………..Wow….
As I said, once our own Catholic Church sent a COMMITMENT letter for a building debt fund TITHE (that’s what I called it) weekly I opted out. My husband attends church hit or miss…I am DONE.
P.S. Yes………… I’ve got my weenies, marshmallows & a long fork packed & ready to go just in case…………
Same with the church I was once a part of that I grew up in, a different religion. Then they went to envelopes too……it was easier I guess to keep track of the money & make sure no one pilfers the collection basket,
Had a church demanded I turn in income information I would have simply walked out the door right after I told them ain’t no way I’m giving you that.
When is a new Episode of the podcast coming? I can’t wait 😊
My thoughts exactly. It is why I came to the website to see if I missed something…
Mike, answer me this. Approximately how many Scientologists who left because of some abuse, not getting what was promised, were scammed or experienced some other perceived harm are there? These are now called ex-Scientologists. I qualify as one.
Geoff. I suspect there are multiple times more ex-Scientologist than there are active ones currently. The burn rate is high.
AND exes STAY exes forever. SO MANY of us once-scientologists are forever more EX-scientologists, never again likely to darken their doors.
Yes, if we go back to 1994 there were probably 5 times the members. Where are they now? It would be powerful to have a true idea of how many members there were in that important decade of expansion for the cult. I did a lot of events then. Massively more people were active then.
Apropos: During the “Go Old St. Hill Size in 6 weeks” 80’s, we whiled away QM hours posting fantasy Org Boards with former staff members.
Our org limped along in the 32 – 38 range. Our fantasy org board got us to Old St Hill size.
(this is what passes for fun as staff)
These days the crickets rule the night.
As far as scientology is concerned, if it actually tried to COUNT members, they’s include every name in every CF world-wide, even the ones who were in CF incorrectly, never having *bought* anything, only having given their name and address at some Div VI event or something.
I guess if you sit still long enough to hear their spiel, you’ve “bought” into it enough for Div 6’s stats.