Here we have it, straight from the horses mouth – an ideal org is supposed to have 268 staff.
Along with their usual foolishness, the Flag OT Committee announced that Chicago has “finished its fundraising” (right….) and that they can now concentrate on getting the staff they need.
They have 29 staff now…
Which is probably more than a lot of orgs. INCLUDING the ideal ones. Walk into Orlando or Salt Lake City or Malmo or Basel or Perth and see if you can find even 15 staff. I guarantee the MAJORITY of “ideal orgs” have less than 25 staff. The images they constantly use to represent “ideal orgs” that have no people in them are the only truth in advertising scientology engages in.
268 staff? Even the subsidized Tampa org doesn’t have this many staff. Nor does the “model” ideal org in LA — which is SEA ORG.
These “OT’s” are completely disconnected from reality…
There are a couple of other doozies among the normal rah-rah “we are clearing the planet and the universe” and taking over the world.
Apparently, Hubbard has some words of wisdom about age (didnt seem to apply to him…) that indicates you are never too old to pay money to run around a pole.
Also that “some OT’s after reaching the top of the Bridge get bored” — in this case, “bored” is a euphemism for “apathetic” or “disgusted” or “disaffected.” But even bored is bad enough. This is the result of years of devoting hours a day and handing over hundreds of thousands of dollars? Bored? Wow.
Here I am with very my first comment on this blog after my very recent digestion of reality and “conversion” to the ranks of the critics.
As an ex SO member I’ve been part of quite some Ideal Orgs making and I’ve seen this “hundreds of staff” figure being dealt with.
Some asses will be heavily kicked in lower management if the figure is not met, so all sorts of stat push (pushing up the statistic, the numbers, with some tricks, while not getting the real valuable thing) will happen.
Common routine includes borrowing staff temporarily from other orgs, promising wealth as a dishonest means to lure people in staff, getting unqualified people on staff… even getting ex Sea Org members on staff (a policy says it is forbidden, but sometimes people chose to forget specific parts of policies if fire is too close to their asses).
So that figure, among many others, will be reported as “done” to “Mr. Big Boss” by the day of the opening, some heavy ethics action (or heavy fist) will be avoided by those in charge and there will be a very satisfactory number on a piece of paper and a bunch of bodies shown to “him” as a means to avoid retaliation.
Being just a mockery of the real thing, many of those staff members will last very little, because that’s just a Public Relations stunt, the org will collapse again to the number of staff they are actually able to manage and the rent will become a big concern in an “Ideal” org that is producing well below the expected level.
That big piece of estates property, added to “Little Big Man” collection, will be just a burden to ordinary people and staff members will be now wondering what is wrong with themselves, as they are doing their best and getting no results, while “he” will be universally recognized as the “Supreme Saint, Savior of the Scientology Religion and Leader of all Possible and Impossible Universes, with Honors”.
Wait… what if they are not able to meet the “hundreds of staff members” quota in time? Well, somebody along the line will be heavily dealt with, but nobody in the general public will ever know.
I should also mention that some (few) orgs will continue to have lots of staff and produce well, but you will easily see a lot of Sea Org Members there, kicking staff members asses to keep production going.
This “perpetual police action” and “you don’t go to sleep until your production quota is met” is the only way to make real numbers from regular orgs.
“Truth”, you seem to say that there are a few orgs doing well…. Care to share which one?
And, are there actual times when fists were involved in stat pushes which you have seen? I gotta stop there or I’ll have you churning out a whole article. Not that Mike would mind another contributor, I expect. “Fists” gets my attention, since they weren’t needed when I was “in”; lower conditions were more than enough punishment.
The only busy org I know, having personally visited it a couple of years ago, is Milan, Italy; it was a busy place with lots of staff and public, but I also saw several Sea Org members there, kicking butt to keep production going. Maybe it’s just an exception.
About the “fists” thing, I have been thrown to a wall and threatened of being punched by CO CLO Europe, about 10 years ago, while 7 execs were watching and doing nothing to stop him.
CO CLO Europe (a former one, not the one who is now on that post) was quite famous for getting physical on his staff or anyone else who did upset him for any reason. I was told several anecdotes of people experiencing his rage and fists, but I saw just a couple of those rage bursts personally.
Same thing happened with a CMO Int missionaire once (same time period), he pushed me badly to a wall because i kept calm and didn’t go “victim” about his screaming, but we were alone and I pushed him back, so he didn’t dare to continue attacking me. I received a long ethics handling after that, despite having very good statistics.
Some time before, the whole base did a “discipline program” (it was really called that way) in which we did marching drills with commands given very rapidly, late at night after a whole day of work. Every time somebody flunked a command or executed it too slowly we (all the team) did a set of pushups, then continued with the marching drills… you can imagine how many people flunked because of the physical exhaustion. Every night we continued until we were totally broken, sometimes for two hours. It lasted several weeks.
SPeaking my Truth said, “should also mention that some (few) orgs will continue to have lots of staff and produce well,”
We’ve examined EVERY org in the USA there are none that fit that description What are you talking about/
The only one I saw is Milan Org, Italy. If you checked all the US ones and there is none that is somehow operational, maybe it is just an exception.
I visited it a couple of years ago and it was a very busy place with lots of staff members and public, in addition to several Sea Org members running missions.
I am very surprised that a albeit weakly worded phrase like “can get bored” is the subject of a talk given by a Scientologist, referring to the state of life anywhere on the bridge. There must be a huge, unspoken awareness of disaffection among OT8s for this to be allowed.
Francis, Beings get bored if there’s no game for them anymore. The trick, I bet, is to find ANOTHER game to play, one more suited to the being’s new powers. In the Real World, however, folks get TIRED of the false “emergency” declarations, impossible tasks which have to get done immediately, and all the other rah, RAH garbage they went through to get where they are. Tired; Bored. Same thing, same old,same old.
Combing IAS Fundraising with Halloween – it doesn’t get any scarier than that! Run for the hill before they empty your bank account!
Just to note something here … I’m in Milan, Italy today and thought I’d check out the org as I did when I visited Madrid and Lisbon. Checked the website and it is way north of the city, no way I am going that far … Not as bad as Rome where that org for Romans might as well be in Omaha … Sort of like the Santa Barbara org being now in Ventura (which is a wonderful city by the way) …
Ha ha, it might not be beyond the church to call their org in Omaha the Ideal Org of Rome. The followers would make it work in their minds.
“Chicago org has finished their fund raising!”
Bwah ha ha ha ha. Thursday Funnies on a Monday!
Boredom!??? Uh oh… there’s an mu ….. sta rt over , find your mu…
They want help with Intention, Postulates and Energy. Is that the same as thoughts and prayers? Because they have the same effect… nothing.
A question from a never-inner: I live in Wisconsin, one of a number of states with no Scientology “churches.” Large metropolitan areas might have one building with low attendance. Do Scientologists not see other churches … even Jehovah’s Witnesses … with a larger presence than they have? Do they never question why the “world’s fastest growing church” can’t seem to generate a presence like any other religious group/
Jim Rockford, let me answer you this way, and I’m not being funny:
The Still Ins, the faithful, they don’t see, no. They don’t see what’s all around them. Especially do they not see what’s right in front of them. Instead, they “see” what they’re told is there. They see what they’re told they’re supposed to see.
Now, if, at any time, they actually see what they SEE, and, God forbid, communicate about it, they’re in trouble. This is a no-no. A BIG no -no. Because they’re only allowed to see what they’re told is there. They’re not permitted to see what they actually see and if they do, and if they communicate about it they will be hauled into ETHICS and worked over in various mental ways to convince them that they didn’t see what they saw, and that the only things they actually see are what the cherch says are ok for them to see.
Still with me? Good. Brave guy. Because it gets worse.
If, after being “handled” with Scientology ethics in one form or another, if they STILL see what they actually see, and communicate about it, well, they’re out, that’s all.
Either out on their own volition, or shunned by the cult.
There is no such thing as observing what you observe, seeing what you see. No way! Not permitted. In theory, perhaps – Hubbard does have much to say and recommend about the ability to cleanly observe – but in practice? Noooooooo.
You can’t be in the cult nowadays and see what you honestly see, and communicate honestly about it.
PS: @ Jim R,
In the Church of Scientology nowadays, seeing what you actually see, and COMMUNICATING about it, is called, “Forwarding an ENEMY LINE”.
In other words, it might well be true, but its not good news for Scientology and therefore it should not be “forwarded” because doing so “assists” the enemies of Scientology.
Again, never mind that its true, and its right there in front of your eyes, or in front of any half-wit who’s paying even half-way attention – its “Enemy Line”.
Crazy stuff, huh?
That’s the way it is, I kid you not.
I have wondered the same thing. They are pummeled for donations to ‘expand’ but there’s not been a ‘new’ Org (church) built in many years. Hell I live in a tiny town in NC…less than 30,000 people in the whole county which has several small towns. Here we have a JW Kingdom Hall and an LDS (Mormon) church as well as Seventh Day Adventists and they are always full. Where is the COS? There is no representation in NC at all. Small towns were supposed to have missions that fed the big Orgs in Cities. Miscavige killed the mission program back in the 80’s and it’s never recovered. Most of the South (except FL) has no COS presence at all. How do the COS public not see this and not ask when they are being gouged for money endlessly? Aquamarine gives the best and probably only explanation there is in their response to this question…they don’t see it because they’re told WHAT TO SEE. It almost like Orwell’s 1984.
Jim, a good scientologist never sees anything than what has been prepared for the “proles”, never looks outside the bubble, and he immediately looks elsewhere if some bit of the TRUTH or other aspect of the REAL world presents itself.
I’m not a salesman, but have gotten a few glimpses into how they go about business.
1. Meetings about new (updated) products. Check
2. Which sales methods are currently the most successful. Check
3. Which products have the best commissions. Check
4. How to interest new (age) groups in to buying whatever you’re selling. Check
5. Pump up and motivate the sales force. Check
6. Introduction of latest incentive program. Check
7. Encouraged to up-sale. Check
Talk about bait and switch. Join a self-help “religion” and after getting into the higher levels instead of having special powers you can become – – – – – – a salesperson.
I have been to the Orgs in Perth, New York, Denmark, and Malmo. And I can promise you, there is definitely NOT more staff than 25 people. I would even say 25 is to much.. they are like ghost towns..
Interesting. Very interesting, Newlew.
OT’s getting bored? Boredom?…that’s pretty low on the tone scale. Pretty far from “serenity of beingness”. I was in Scientology many, many years, never got near the OT levels, but I don’t ever get bored. Too many interesting things going on. Even just relaxing and enjoying the moments. I guess I’m just much higher toned then these OT’s. Hmmmm? Maybe I’ll start a religion.
And yes, these empty orgs need lots of staff. After all, you know how many Scientologists it takes to just screw in a light bulb? 1 to screw in the bulb, and 197 to handle the routing form. (Whoops, I just joked and degraded.)
If OT”s are bored, really there’s just one answer. Retread. Back to life repair.
I was amazed at that also and I’m not even Clear, let alone OT. There’s so much to learn. I’m interested in practically everything. If I didn’t have to work I’d be doing all kinds of things, travelling, taking courses in this and that…bored? Maybe they’re watching too much Scientology TV, poor devils. And then there are all the fundraising events that as OTs they have to attend, doing over courses they did 20 years ago, the OT Committee meetings, mandatory closed-door briefings, INT Events…INT Events…3 hours…zzzzzzzz..excuse me…I’m feeling a little…sleepy…I think I’ll lie down for a bit…OMG, the poor OTs…zzzzzzzz.
“Boredom” might just be a word to cover up for the real term: Disillusioned
I think you’re right, anon.
Cue Peggy Lee:
“Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that’s all there is my friend
Then lets keep dancing
Let’s break out the booze
And have a ball
If that’s all
There is…
Every OT 8 should listen to this recording, LOLOL!
Top of the Bridge OT’s get bored? Wait, isn’t that what started all this to begin with? Those high powered Thetans got bored living forever and started creating their own universes and stuff and the resulting chaos led to Sir Xenu, DC 8’s, volcanoes and (gulp) hydrogen bombs. PLEASE, don’t let them get bored. More games, more statuses to donate to, anything but boredom. A happy clam is a safe clam.
No worries. The OTs I knew couldn’t OT Power their way out of a paper bag. Aging, broke, bankrupt at least once, or pinned to their first dynamic with so much debt they barely had a pot to piss in, unhealthy, overweight, stressed, uptight, and last but not least, insular and convinced they had something that we unenlightened ones didn’t have. Yeah, they had something, all right. A piece of paper framed on their wall, that’s what they had. LOL! Nothing to fear from them. Having beggared and exhausted themselves for the cult, all their lives, Just staying alive and keeping a roof over their head and food in their stomachs was about as much “game” as they could handle. They didn’t impress me, the OTs I knew. Ditto the ones who were OK and riding high because of family money. N Oh, but they talked a good game! All of them had their OT PR really, really down. Their realities, on the other hand, were quite different.
How Many Staff Does an “Ideal Org” need?
In my mind just ONE.
Ideally there will be no public so no need of reges, routers, sups, auditors, qual, or execs.
Just one person to unlock/lock the doors, turn on/off the lights, and set the thermostat to OFF. And to call for service when something breaks.
I hope this post is ok to ask – Lord help us, we are considering moving back to the Tampa area. 🙂 It’s been a very long time but we miss it. Any suggestions for good safe, family-friendly areas in which to live in the region?
Again sorry if this is I appropriate or off-topic but I know many of us will have insight 🙂
There are lots of great places. We love Palm Harbor.
268 staff needed to service how many public? My husband recently took a tour of Paris Org. Said there were about 7 public and definitely more staff. Bass Ackwards.
ZOMG?! They didn’t recognize the SP?! LMAO.
TrevAnon,
You must remember, that although Mary is an SP, she is also OT VIII! She has total control over MEST!
Mary and many others here are MY concept of OT – the ability to observe what they observe, the self honesty to not lie to themselves or others about what they observe, and the courage, integrity and fortitude to take responsibility for what they observe by standing against what they know to be wrong and standing up for what they know to be right, despite fearful odds and the painful censure of loved ones. Great books are written, great films are made, about such people. BRAVO to ALL of you! YOU are the true OTs!
Mary, 268 staff to service NO public is probably the ideal in Dwarfenführer’s puny little diseased mind.
First off, I was actually shocked that at least a portion of the meeting was spent on getting people on services. I didn’t realize people still talked about that in scientology.
Second, you have to go through five levels of donation to the IAS to get a bluetooth speaker? Three levels will get you a t-shirt? But, they say, you can reach it by number of donations or by amount donated. So, if I donated $1 10 times would I get a bluetooth speaker? (More likely a sec check, but I had to put that out there).
And last but not least, I do not know the number of staff ASHO Day had when SHSBC was bursting at the seams, but I’m thinking it could not possibly have been over 200 or we wouldn’t have fit out there for muster. Two hundred sixty eight staff to service 20-50 people is absurd. It’s like a firm (not bankrupt) where I worked that had 14 administrative people servicing 35 field workers. Even with little or no pay, the overhead will kill them just keeping the lights on.
The firm I worked is NOW bankrupt, not NOT bankrupt. Their overhead killed them. Even when they cut back on administrative staff to 5 (a 1/7 ratio) it was too big and they couldn’t see that.
The CofS probably only exists because of its slave labor staff. Local orgs claim about two dozen staff when we only see about four dozen members in pictures of most, but even if only a portion of those are actually full-time it is still outrageously out of balance.
The two hundred or so is just their delusional “postulate” of what would be required if the huge idle morgues were actually used to capacity and had thousands of active members.
The average normal church runs with about 1 full time staff member per 100 members.
I once figured that if the CofS paid minimum wage to everyone including Sea Org – or at least provided a real retirement for the SO in lieu of pay – it would cost them upwards of $100 million a year. If they had been paying that money all along, they never would have accumulated the reserves that they have now, and if they were paying it now they would almost certainly be in the red, so their existence can be traced to the profits from human trafficking.
Great post, Peacemaker. Great wealth can only be created with plenty of very cheap labor. Vast fortunes have always been made this way, via an unending supply of dirt cheap labor. I’m not talking about becoming “rich”, I’m talking about immense wealth, empires, etc. that are built, over time. Cheap labor!
Excellent points, Peacemaker!
She should have named it ” Scam-A-Geddon” now that would have been really scary !
Deb quipped:
“She should have named it ” Scam-A-Geddon” now that would have been really scary !”
And that would be more truthful. My dyslexia served up ” Scam-A-Geddon” upon first read. Ain’t ‘learning disabilities’ FUN?
DEB: I actually thought that’s what it said on first read
I know of several elderly people who were never too old to be regged for services
then they started the routing form and signed legal contracts without legal advice
they believed they were in the most ethical group on the planet because that was repeated over and over and over and over again. (that implant worked)
then they found out that they were too old for services
and had huge arcx and upsets
but NO CASE ON POST and no dramatizing of their cases (that Scientology gave them)
OH, the cult kept the money cuz they signed those legal documents
They were told to come back next lifetime and discarded without sorrow
It is all so spiritual eh OSA – to see Scientology harm the elderly? Whose next?
There are an ever-increasing number of lawsuits being filed against these criminals almost every day now. Just Google “valerie haney status of lawsuit” and you will find articles about a great many new lawsuits. Each new lawsuit has learned from the shortcomings of previous lawsuits and they now seem to be much stronger and have a much better chance to succeed. (My opinion only).
I am especially heartened that it seems there is a good chance they might be able to force The Rat onto the stand to answer questions as well as Shelly. Can you imagine what Shelly would have to say if she ever gets on the stand under oath?
If there is any way you can get any of these elderly people who signed away their financial lives to contact some of the lawyers named who are now suing The Scam, there is a chance some good could come of it. If it’s not too late, I would encourage you to look into it.
Skyler offered:
“Can you imagine what Shelly would have to say if she ever gets on the stand under oath?”
Quite likely she’d say nothing intelligible as there’s indications that she’s still a Kool-Aid drinker and IIRC, she might not be able to be compelled to testify adversely against her ‘husband’ [More properly “was band”, IMO.
IOW, IF she could be found and brought to testify, she might still be such a true believer that she’d use every trick in the [scn] book to avoid giving a useful answer to any question put to her, and she would have learned from whomever trained Davey-Boy so well.
I must admit that you are far more knowledgeable about this scam and that you have a great deal more experience than do I. So, the odds favor you being correct.
Maybe I am letting my hopes and dreams cloud my judgement?
Miscavige will NEVER take the stand…he will pay big $ first. These are civil lawsuits not criminal so even though he can be subpoenaed he can end the whole affair by offering a sum that the other party accepts. They can ask for a jury trial but I have a feeling that Miscavige will put up a ‘show fight’ then settle and it will be big. He is now dodging process servers in the US but I believe he will not return to the US any time soon since he has made it to England. He has endless options of places to stay in various countries and on the Freewinds.
It seems the lawyers fighting Scientology have finally learned a lesson from those fighting for the cult. “Blanket them in lawsuits. Bury them with paperwork.” Wasn’t it something like that? Well Scientology, what goes around – comes around!
I recently saw a new article in which there were a large number of opinions posted by the public and the overwhelming majority expressed the opinion that it was high time this scam had their tax free status revoked.
That is my second greatest desire in this world.
My greatest desire? That would be to see The Rat’s reaction to learning it had been revoked.
Skyler, I love you, but “under oath” means nothing to these people! They will be drilled beforehand on how to lie, easily and believably, as necessary, including how to say, “Yes, I do” very believably when they put their hand on the Bible and are asked, “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?” Under oath? Details, details!
I still want to know how many of the approximately two dozen staff that orgs seem to claim these days, are even full timers. Some may also be wearing multiple “hats,” so it could be an even smaller number of actual people, which would make sense since the real active membership of a lot of these orgs seems to be down to a total of more like four dozen, which is about the largest number we ever see gathered for a photo.
I haven’t been able to find good information about what’s going on in that regard. And it seems likely that the OT Committee is just repeating inflated and weaseled stats about staffing, that are actually even worse.
As I’ve noted before, from reports it seems that in the past, and particularly in the case of orgs in Scientology’s California strongholds, that they may actually have managed to muster about two hundred people for facility openings, though many stayed for as little as a couple of days. But in the case of Orlando, staff photos take immediately after didn’t show even two dozen people, and apparently they now rely on some sort of “postulate” staff contracts where the people agree they will come when (if) the org meets certain size goals, so large numbers never even show up at all.
And it’s interesting, but hardly surprising, to see that they are increasingly running up against the problem of remaining members being too old for programs and services.
How could you get bored if you have a pole to run around?
268 staff. When FSO was pumping along actually full (in th mid-late 80’s – early 90’s) it had a little over 320 staff. With no public other than people off base on OT VII I bet they don’t even have 268 staff today. What would they be doing if they did? Over 1/2 were Div’s 4&5 staff. The next largest service org in the world, AOLA, doesn’t have 268 staff. I’ve seen videos of several Ideal Morgues where a weekday a.m. was video’ed to see how many people showed up for work. Never saw more than 10 staff arrive.
That’s about what my former org has – about 10 staff, if even that. Frequently they don’t even have a receptionist and the ED answers the phone. Skeletal is the word. Those left have been there for 30 years. For one reason or another they don’t need to earn money so there they are at the org every day. I’m sure they wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they weren’t there.
Towards the end of those minutes, when they’re talking about solo auditing, this line appears: (Heaters will be supplied to handle false TA)
What does that mean? I’m a never-in but I’ve been reading you and Tony O long enough that I’ve learned to translate, but I’m completely lost on this one.
Good catch. It sounds like maybe they can’t afford to heat the building, and resort to space heaters to keep people from shivering during the cooler weather that sets in around this time of year.
“Cooler weather”?
At FLAG!? As I recall, it was typically warm enough to swim Christmas Day, but a bit chilly the next week, New Year’s Day. Inside the buildings, there were few days even in January we didn’t want working air conditioning.
jere I’ve seen ice on streets in CW during day time.
“TA”: “Tone Arm”, the main control on an e-meter. It’s moved to keep the needle on a reference line on the dial. It has a scale around the control. One end of the TA is a pointer, and it’s position is read by matching the point on the scale.
A TA reading is used to measure what is happening with the patient. If it’s high, it’s supposed to mean a large amount of mental mass. This is bad. The TA can be affected by environmental conditions. It can register falsely as high if the patient is cold.
Why does Chicago (or any Idle mOrg) need any SO staff servicing a public that’s cult-revolted, plainly isn’t coming, completely apathetic and would rather keep their money and families intact?
Debbie says “Chicago ideal org fund raising is complete”… three paragraphs later, Mariah is holding a fund raiser for ideal orgs. Then the long announcement that there will be a two-hour shindig, but only for Clears and some other people who have purchased enough of the religion. However, the event is not open to those who have not purchased enough religion, unless they have purchased almost enough religion.
If by now these people can not see it is all about fund raising, and the raised funds are doing nothing but enriching a few contractors, lawyers, and DM himself, then no power on earth can get through to them, not even evil overlords or exploding volcanoes or the power to turn red lights to green, sometimes..
One solution to handle the ‘OTs’ that are bored would be to have them join the sea org. Even though they might have a very boring job with very boring stats to show for their efforts, they will be driven to work such long hours with unrealistic demands for targets to be met they really won’t have time to dwell on their bored state of being. After all, sea org members are playing the biggest game there is, ‘clearing’ this sector of the guh-lax-ee! If they are extra special ‘OTs’ perhaps they could even qualify to be OSA members. They could spend their time sifting through garbage SPs generate and leave on the curb once a week. Now that sounds like fun and no one ever gets bored handling poopy diapers and coffee grounds.
I’m laughing and feeling like throwing up at the same time, Ms. P.
One could see this trend of empty buildings developing thirty years ago. The prices were simply too high and Scientology is not worth the effort.
DM “handled” that by going straight to the checkbook, no service (or the requisite overhead) needed. Now, they don’t advertise “scientology”, only bouncy castles &n other things for the kids or the like.
Yes, Jere, and stock food pics to use in all their pot luck promo pieces. Eatingness. LRH said it was far down the scale near sexingness on the Know to Mystery Scale, both near the bottom.
Yeah, I can see the Chicago mOrg needing 268 staff. Two hundred and 50 to distribute Way to Happiness and other misleading pamphlets and to body route prospective clams into the thrall of Lron. Not that 250 body routers can bring in more than 2 new meats a month. And both of those will escape asap.
Zee Moo, 2 raw meat a month would be straight up and vertical! POWER stats.